The Fortin Amps Fiasco
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- Опубликовано: 21 июл 2024
- Coverage of the recent and some not so recent issues that Fortin have had. Including the issues with the new Sigil amp
Original video covering it
• The Fortin Sigil Stand...
Fortins return policy
www.fortinamps.com/pedals-amp...
Fortin privacy policy
www.fortinamps.com/privacy-po...
Fortin vs Larry
www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewto...
Merch
kdhguitartv.bigcartel.com
Social Media
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/ kdhguitartv
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The man that single handly brought down Rob Chapman with a single post (and a heck of a lot of research)! Keep doing what you're doing mate and please please PLEASE don't change your content and style!
Chapman guitars are all wrong with that upside down headstock baloney. I never cared for that aesthetic.
@@angusorvid8840 there was a legitimate rationale behind that, and they weren't the first to do it. Arguably Hendrix was. String tension. Also, when did Gibson first put a reverse headstock on a Firebird?
@@richardharrold9736 Gibson didn't do that, as the original Firebird design is actually the reverse of what most people think of - and the model most think of is actually a reversed Firebird which indeed does have a reversed headstock.
Bit confusing, I know.
But you just check it out 😉
@@claudevieaul1465 the original Firebird from 1963 had the reverse headstock. The non-reverse-body Firebirds were only produced 1965-9.
Give me that CHON CHON!
Oh my god!!!!! He mentioned me!!!! Holy smoke!! Thanks, brother! You are the man!!!!
@Skull Some guys who have worked with him recently have all said he's a new man and things are much better. Let's see how it goes and let's hope things stay right. :)
Omg me too! (John knight) hahaha
@@sobrighttiedyes6805 Hell yeah, John!!! Woot woot!!!!!
@Skull You know, from my understanding, he really wanted to run his business better. He landed Gary Holt and I think he's making an effort to fix tee reputation that's followed him the last few years. Like a redemption/ remake in the pedal world. :)
@Jeremy Conner Thanks Jeremy! You're the man! Happy Monday!! I think it's tequila time!!! :)
Fortin: "It's not a problem, it's a feature"
"edgy as a Fortin year old boy" hahahahahhahahah best pun ever :D
I started ignoring Fortin from the moment I realized it's impossible to buy their amps cos they're always out of stock. And the prices are just hilarious.
They don't actually exist I'd say!
@@GEX-_- Joyo is a culprit of what?
ji ki Guys like Joe Morgan and Dave Friedman fully disclose that their amps are based on classic circuits with their own slight variations added to them. There’s a huge difference between that, and literally copying someone else’s work and selling it as if it’s some original design like Fortin has.
@@AdrianNWB To be fair, Fortin's revolutionary non-standby Stanby can't have been copied from anyone else :P
CyberChrist Ha! Touché!
Imagine a company treats it’s customers so bad that it offering full refunds for faulty products is considered noteworthy positive thing. For most I’d go as far as saying it’s a prerequisite!
I always thought it was pretty wack to sell a BOOST pedal for $225, just because it says Whitechapel or Fredrik Thordendal.
I got it and it changed my life. ok, maybe not, but it far exceeded my expectations. I would pay more than 225 if I had to. that's just me though
@@metal_helm I'm sure it sounds great, but you could buy a boost for $200 LESS and get a similar result. Honestly I think people love Fortin because of the hype and "exclusivity" more than the product itself sometimes. If your willing to pay even more than the ridiculous $225, more power to you. You have more money to burn than me.
@@lifeofleo7 I've heard it's a hyped EQ pedal, but I've never been able to get a sound close to it with any kind of EQ pre or post. I've made a little bit of money from youtube, but just pumped it back into my channel. I certainly don't have 8k for a Fortin head.
Especially when their "signiture pedals" are just baisc store bought crap with a pretty casing around it.
Why do I always feel the need to have popcorn at the ready when you release a new video?
You're doing good work, KDH. Seriously. It seems like very few people look out for the average guy anymore without serving some kind of shadowy agenda.
It will only last so long. When / if he blows up he will join Satan (Rob) and his crew
Why doesn't he go into depth on the circuitry of a point to point amp? It really is a waste of a video that was only wasted on idiots. It really could have been educational on what the circuitry of the amp benefits from while in standby mode. And how components that were not so common in the 50's and 60's are much more common today that you really don't need a standby mode. But I guess I am just to much of an intellect for you to care or gain any knowledge from. Since your main concern is just people making videos being seduced by a website. You ain't far of from a cork sniffing Gibson fanboy if that's the case.
I'm dying for an Audio Audit on Jared Dines. Please say it's coming.
When I worked in an electronics shop, we had a phrase for these kinds of problem. "It's not faulty, it's shit on purpose."
In other words, if you want a replacement or repair on the grounds that it's faulty, you're SOL, because... It's not. It's just designed to suck. It's working as intended, and it's intended to work badly.
at that point I might as well have my cash returned and get a fucking revv instead
Yeah, any shop who tries to tell me they make trash on purpose and that's why they won't fix it better be prepared to say that while I'm recording and see how well that plays on the public square
@@alecmullaney7957 You could always get a refund on the grounds that you bought a shitty product you no longer want; just not on the grounds that it's faulty. Trouble is they had usually already thrown all the packaging etc away, so they were out of luck there too.
Back in those days, a lot of budget gear sat in this category. Nine times outta ten we would try our best to talk the customer out of buying it at the point of sale, because we KNEW they would be back the next day to complain that it sucked. But of course, the customer always thinks they know best, and that you're just trying to up-sell them.
Nice Karen moves though. I'm sure that would get you the outcome you desired.
I don't believe you know much about electronics, let alone worked as electronics repair person.
What electronics are "designed to be crap" like what are you talking about!?
One thing people should know about electronic circuits is that they are not considered intellectual property. The PCB's (printed circuit boards) however are. Basically, the arrangement of the circuits on the board is intellectual property, not the circuit itself. All one has to do is reverse engineer it and make a new PCB, which is what everyone does. Your design is only protected if it does something novel that can be protected by a patent. Whether it is financially worth it to apply for a patent is another conversation. In most cases, nothing any manufacturer does is new. All the circuits and techniques are tried and true in many industries. A new sound doesn't mean new technology to achieve it. This is probably why we haven't seen evidence, just an exchange of "pleasantries" between a naive german and an opportunist's employee. This is also why some manufacturers submerge their products in epoxy to hide their secret sauce. It's not a secret. Many have probably built that circuit before just maybe not in a guitar product. The sooner companies come to terms with this and focus their efforts on adding value where their competition hasn't, the happier everybody will be. Better yet, learn to use a soldering iron. Save yourself the money and nonsense.
This is a LIE. A simple look at patent laws proves this.
I love when you do videos like this, keep them coming
That amp on standby sounds like a Trent Reznor side project. Not in a good way.
LOL!
I wonder how many potential customers Fortin lost due to how they handled this situation
Residual voltage? Sounds like they need some bleeders across those filter caps. For $8,000.00 you would think they would know that.
Thank you for making this video. Subscribed.
When's the Jared Dines Audio Audit coming out?
I second this
Sebastian Maxwell I’ll definitely third this.
I 4th this
Dude is SOOOOOOOO ANNOYING. And his fanbase are such fanboys its cringe
🤣
I always thought this brand had cringe written all over it when it first became a thing. Good to know my radar was spot on.
That is a very important video, thank you very much!
I've been thinking about snagging an Evil Pumpkin when they launch. The Sigil fiasco has me slightly sketched out, not gonna lie. Another excellent video KDH, never stop the consumer advocacy.
Thanks for the info from across the pond
They can write whatever they want in the privacy policy, they absolutely cannot share your information. As a UK company have they not heard of GDPR? The fines if they did would most likely bankrupt them.
I would be a shame if someone did report them to the authorities for sharing user information... /S
KDH posts a new video, I hit like. Simple as that. Keep up the great work!
I liked the video because you care. It keeps suppliers on their toes and buyer's eyes wide open.
Getting my buddy to build me a Fortin 33 copy using the same circuit board, except its got bass and treble controls along with the normal level control. I like how the 33 sounds, so to get the same thing with more features for less than half the price is amazing!
Your videos make me want to be an even more honest musician. Thank you for keeping us all in check 🤘
I bought the Neural DSP Fortin NTS and was pretty happy with it, didn’t have any supply issues, no technical problems and it’s pretty good sounding.
Great content, keep it up man!
Fortin standby problems appear to go back all the way to his time at Randall... My Diavlo RD100H has an issue with the volume randomly jumping in and out with the standby on and it also fades out the DI signal instead off it being active when the standby is on. ☹️
Great video man! Keep em coming :)
KDH doing what he does best. Great video mate keep it up.
Never heard of Fortin before. Great video!
I was waiting for this.
Presumably their 'doxxing' clause is in reference to contravening clauses such as Section 12 (Prohibited Use) which talks about things like harrassment, violating of laws etc. (and the 'doxxing' would be providing data to law enforcement) but yeah, they should absolutely be a lot clearer about this because, as you've raised, it really could mean anything - even clauses they may decide to add or update at their own whim
A few other things:
1. The Zuul noise gate uses the circuit from the Marshall Kerry King JCM800s. The form factor's obviously different, but I think it's good for people to know where the design comes from, especially for something as hyped as it is.
2. The Grind and 33 are both clones of the TC integrated preamp with fixed resistors for bass and treble. Between the two, there's only 1 different resistor. The general consensus seems to be the Blade is again a TC Integrated Pre, just with knobs.
3. The Meshuggah is a Jose-modded Marshall circuit with minor tweaks, the Cali is a Mark Cameron Jose circuit.
I don't know enough about the specifics to these particular units, but to put this into perspective: most pedals and amps are based off of an existing model. A ton of overdrives basically copy the Tubescreamer and maybe change one value here or add a small circuit there. You can say similar things about 90% of gear. That alone does not say anything
@@loeffel999 For sure, but most of those lineages are fairly well-known, and at the least, not obscured. The Meshuggah for example was originally marketed as a new circuit with 4 gain stages instead of 3.
@Alex Mak the evil pumpkin, meathead, natas/Randall Satan preamp all are exact clones of Larry's scream channel. Also Girth/grind are literal clones of Larry's "bite/punch" - which are NOT just presence/resonance controls. Also, he's ripped off Steve Fryettes power section and filtering for many amps.
The Sigil on the front of the Sigil amp is the Sigil of Lucifer. Sweet. Now I want one..
I'll try this again - that standby switch problem could hurt someone. If someone works on the amp and uses the switch expecting it to cut high voltage to certain parts of the circuit they might be in some trouble, or at least blow a probe up. There was some hysterical unlettered reject here before, suggesting that because he hadn't heard of people doing this it therefore must never occur; I have seen plenty of techs use standby switches for troubleshooting and repair purposes. Fortin himself is published discussing standby switches and their service convenience. It is reasonable to assume the standby on this amplifier is intended to work like most others - my simple point was that the unexpected presence of high dc voltage can be problematic, and normal people don't have any issue imagining why.
Also reading up on the forum stuff is interesting, I get super TTM guitars vibes from Fortin and their fanboys
ahhaha keep going at it. You are the most refreshing channel on youtube.
Thanks.Kirlan. 🙂
I bought a Fortin Grind pedal. The foot switch broke after two weeks of requalr use turning it off and on. I never bothered to get it fixed.
'Dated' is a very interesting way to describe Jimmy Page's relationship with Ms Maddox. He was having sex with her and trying to hide the relationship as he knew it was illegal, and probably knew it was morally repugnant.
Edit: oh, and another interesting vid. : )
I like the no nonsense, matter of fact tone of your videos. Some of the corny segments trying to be funny skits get old and distract from the content. Keep up the good work and best of luck to you!
Had a Cali mod years ago. Pretty much exactly the same as a ceriatone Chupacabra. Played them side by side.
Based on what I've seen so far...This Company Seems Like a cluster f*&k and operates on very selective and sketchy ethics.....I would beware doing business with this dumpster fire ...BUYER BEWARE!!! I was going to get one of these until.....lets just say ...I'm so glad I saw your video ..THANK YOU!!!!!
8000 dollar for an amp! AN AMP!?!?!? BWA HAHAHAHAHA!!! WTF?
How MANY Harley-Bentons can you GET for that money? LOL!
@Orpheas Malliamanis Why not?
@Orpheas Malliamanis QUANTITY DARLING, QUANTITY!
I know. $8000 is not nearly expensive enough for a man of my social status and financial portfolio
@Orpheas Malliamanis Poly kalo vre! \m/
great vid.
more audio audits. it's a great series
Im a broke ass guitarrist so I buy joyo, good quality for small price also good QC and customer service
Alejandro Tarazona the Joyo pedals are really quite good, and not ridiculously priced🤘🏻
Fuck yeah, Joyo rocks _hard_
Currently shopping hi-gain, metallish amps. Good info and will definitely be buying something different.
Excellent video as usual. Even as an owner of a 33 pedal, Fortin have always struck me as weird. Edgy as a 14 year old with a Manson temp tat, and the 'boutique' nonsense always felts so forced to me. Having said that, I do quite like my 33 pedal, even if it's just a preset EQ pedal with an overpriced tag. I suck at tone shaping and this bad boy does a lot of work for me.
great job! Expose the living crap out of these scamming brands
Great video as always. Nice bit of guitar drama here! 🔥 I'll admit I've never heard of Fortin. Sounds like a lucky escape. Seriously though, it must suck to be a consumer in the States. Here in the UK we have 14 days to return online orders for any reason at all 😎
I've purchased Fortin Nameless Sweet. I have contacted customer service multiple times about trying to get logic X to work with the program...but I haven't been able to make it work. Fortin works but I can't drop Fortin into Logic. Any ideas?
Try the VST or maybe the AAX if it's there. Or just use Reaper, works wonderfully there
Dude you made some great points about marketing. We often have that perceived value when the price is outrageous. Fortin has always been more than I’m willing to pay...I’ll stick to my EVH
never tried any of their gear as well out of my budget but after watching this I will defiantly keep clear of them
Well done, as usual. The "specifications" disclaimer isn't all that unusual. It protects the company if the specs change, and over squabbles about tiny measured differences. It's an amp company, not a research lab. You'll find similar disclaimers everywhere.
Horrible customer service. You should always put customers first. Anytime there's an issue with my pickups, I handle the problems personally
I think this is just a soft start type switch. The standby switch has some resistors across its legs that let a small amount of voltage continue even when the standby is on. This will let the filter caps charge up some before the standby is turned off. It prevents a large inrush of voltage into the filter caps all at once when the standby is turned off since theyre already filled up some. Just a guess though would have to see the schematic.
Interesting seeing all the QC issues with these amps, every YT guitar channel practically sucks them off whenever they're demoing a product of theirs.
LOL!
$ Wonder why that is? $
Yeah, way too many people looking to shill for free gear.
There was once a point in time where we could come to RUclips looking for unbiased reviews and honest gear demos, as an alternative to the misinformation on forums, and the straight up paid advertising you're getting in any guitar magazine. Same is true of the games industry, whatever you're into as a hobby. We've come full circle and now RUclips is just the same kind of paid publicity as the old media.
Practically? More like does
Oh, I totally believe that Mike FRAUDtin stole Larry Grohmann’s entire circuit. Hell, even the Evil Pumpkin headshell and chassis looks very similar to the Larry Dino 939, just with a different color scheme. Jon Schaffer from Iced Earth has been playing through the Dino for years, and his guitar tone was very unique at the time when he started using the Dino. Listen to the guitar sound on the Something Wicked This Way Comes album, and then compare it to the guitar sound of any pro demo of the Fortin Evil Pumpkin, and try to convince yourself that the tone isn’t identical.
Mike Fortin also has a Steavens Poundcake that He loves. Just compare the Natas headshell to Steavens Poundcake.
"Natas" means "creams" in Spanish. Maybe they're not badass after all?
OR maybe Satan is just CREAMY! ;oP
My Cats name is Natas🤘🏻😻🤘🏻
@@InSKATANweTrust Does she GET your 'cream'?
Anytime I see expensive products (or inexpensive actually) with tyranical policies, I automatically assume it's a piece of crap. Right or wrong, this has served me well and saved lots of money/headaches.
Right?
👏🏻👏🏻👍🏻👍🏻, Good Job and good video, Keep it up, Cheers
Business practices like this need to be reported to the Better Business Bureau
I own a Fortin Zuul (noise gate for those who don't know) and got it used. It is the best gate I've ever used buuuuuuuut the price new is pretty crazy. I have heard all kinds of bad about this company since that purchase which has definitely turned me off from the brand. Now Diezel amplification, that company is nothing but class. Their customer service is amazing and their amps sound incredible.
I own a Diezel. Its nothing short of amazing.
I’ve learned quite a bit from KDH 🙂
Keep them all honest KDH. Thank you
With the risk of getting shit on both sides (I'm a Fortin Army member) I watched this play out. Now, I have the Sigil, a few amps from other stints in his career, practically all of the pedals and I am a fan of what they do (even though the Grind and 33 pedal are basically one resistor difference, but that can be a large change in sound.) My Sigil works great and the way I got it was outstanding. Basically, I ordered through Thomann because I missed the pre-sale due to my mom dying. They sell fast and I was in a glass case of emotion. AS SOON as they started to ship out, I posted on the Fortin Army page saying I couldn't wait to get mine. Then Fortin chimed in saying that Thomann could not fill U.S. orders due to their agreement. I was pissed (at Thomann as other companies do this, they should disclose). Fortin e-mailed me directly saying that even though they were sold out, they wanted to offer me a Sigil. They sent the invoice same day, I paid and I had my Sigil 3 days later. They went above and beyond for me. Like I said earlier though, I did watch the fiasco you described play out. Growing pains for a company with a small footprint being thrusted onto a scene. They seem to be learning the hard way too at times. Every instance is different. I look at it just like I do with my Abominable Electronics purchases (Another company with notorious customer service and an Infamous/edgy reputation). If something breaks, just be prepared to take it locally to a tech as it can happen with any amp.
interesting vid, not really looked into fortin but think i'll avoid just how I was looking at chapman guitars but now... less so (actually based on how he responded than the original content tbh!)
Ya wanna tip quality made amp made in the USA try a Armored Amplification Sabot. Very reasonable priced and a top notch owner
Oh God these amps are over priced. I should be greatful on spending only 1k on my evh 5150iii 50w 6L6.
Patrick Hardy that’s a monster amp you have there, just amazing sound. Not telling you anything you don’t already know, of course😂
I don't get how a company can make what is CLEARLY a Marshall amp, give it their own brand, and then charge MORE for it than an ACTUAL Marshall.
And IDIOTS ACTUALLY BUY IT!! WHAT THE FLOCK?!?!
TBF the Marshalls of today are nothing like the vintage Marshalls...
@@richardharrold9736 that's why I went to peavey 6505+ and now evh 5150 iii.
@@richardharrold9736 I use to have a 1959 marshall head that head was titts.
@@patrickh.1658 Peaveys are basically hot-rodded Fenders, aren't they? I personally prefer the EL34 sound, but I'll take a KT88-loaded HIWATT over either.
@@richardharrold9736 evh is like a peavey and a fender made a baby. Has fender cleans but also them punch in the balls sound peavey 5150s were known for. That's why I got it for the legendary fender cleans that my 6505 didnt have. Yeah all i know is eddy went from marshall and messed with Saldano then struck a deal in early 90s with peavey. I use to do EL34S in my dads 1959 marshall 100w head. I wish he didnt take back lol. I'm more of a thrasher. I grew up to the big 4 so naturally I went with 6L6 just the sound it gives when heavey I love it. Don't get me wrong I love El34s also. I could have got that version of my head.
Technically the standby function works, it’s just different to the normal implementation. It seems that he’s either cutting the AC before the high tension rectifier, or the HT after the rectifier but before the main filter capacitors, causing it to take ages before the caps bleed down. It also probably have extra massive capacitors as that’s a common thing people implement these days to deal with hum, even though it rarely works. The way it’s usually done is to cut the HT after the capacitors, that way you don’t have to deal with the inrush current from the caps charging up every time you flick it out of standby, and it goes silent instantly. I can’t really imagine a good idea for doing it the way they are, except that you can maybe use a slightly cheaper switch depending on how they’re implementing their HT.
I’ll stick with Marshall and Peavy thanks
peavey amps are tanks
Its a faulty tube i think, i had that problem on a hughes and kettner grandmeister deluxe 40, send it back and they changed it, no problem at all!
If you go on the website now it lists two amp models and both are unavailable, very unFortinate.
The issue appears to be with the switch or a fundamental flaw with the circuitry design. My guess is they incorrectly copied another design.
As a big jesus and mary chain fan I would love pedal that sounds like the standby setting on this amp
hm, i no longer ever want to consider a fortin amp.
Atleast the Sigil manages to sound Evil with the Standby.
Wow. I’ll stick to my bargain priced lunchbox amp built by Orange, it’s a workhorse; a reliable and fantastic addition to my gear!
Or a Joyo Mjolnir
Is it one of those Micro terror ?
Those are not really reliable as many have failed, like 10%-15% because of those laptop charger power supply cords they come with. I've seen an orange cr35ldx melt down in every way possible. 😅it was crazy ! Capacitor popped like a cap gun and then the speaker burnt up with power chip melting down and the whole thing went up in smoke. After that my orange cr120 head popped a cap in the pre amp and cut the volume down so I knew it had a malfunction so I opened it up and replaced the burnt up cap and fixed it. I have read about so many people that have their orange amps crap out with no warranty help from Orange.
I'm surprised we don't have a KDH video on orange yet !
That's why I'm glad I have a kemper.
Never heard of Fortin before.
I just got the neural suite for the Cali 🤷🏼♂️ boom instant fortin
if that glitchy standby sound was a deliberate effect I'd kind of love it
I once repaired Amps & much more when Peavey were here in the UK at their height. That is really awful customer support.
You should definitely do an orange amp video because so many of the amps from 2013 on till today have crapped out and burnt up speakers, capacitors, tubes, and many other components as well, especially in the crush series amps and especially the CR120 head and Cr35 combos but not limited to those as a bunch of the tubeamps have suffered the same problems.
As seen on this channel...There r plenty of bad actors in the guitar, amp and pedal world. Some have good intentions but fail to properly run their businesses. Some r outright thieves that should be locked up. While other like Fortin only do the right thing after bad PR and pressuring from the online community. A sad state of affairs for musicians regardless. Keep up the good work KDH!!
The only Fortin amps that work reliably are the NeuralDSP ones.
That's a lunchbox amp? Whose lunch? Butterbean's?
be honest did you buy that shirt just for that skit
I bought one of those 33’s... man it was terrible for me. Sold it for twice the amount I paid though so I can’t complain.
Where can I get one of those fortnite broken standby pedals? They sound legit.
I bought a Fortin 33 a while ago and man was I disappointed.
I bought the grind. Sold it ASAP.
that circumcision joke was funny!
Apparently “Standby” on that amp is the noisy, “electronic fart generator mode”.
If you don't take care of your customer, they won't take care of you.
Are they owned ny Rob Chapman ?
So a $8k amp can't do standby as good as a Blue Voodoo?
I bought one of the second run Sigils... The standby works but it arrived with the corners of the amp discoloured or stained... The amp was wrapped in paper so it's kinda weird that it happened. I guess that the chemicals from the plastic leached through the paper and caused the stains. I didn't even bother contacting Fortin because of their return policy. I just assumed I'd be in the hook for shipping if I wanted it repaired/replaced... It's minor but for the price it shouldn't have happened.
Yeah that's how my 2nd run Sigil is, standby works fine just the corners on top look like someone tried cleaning it but used the wrong cleaner or something
@@blkmrrs3111 sucks that happened to you too, I figured I wasn't the only one. I love the amp bit for the price it shouldn't have happened.
"2nd run". What if those are first run amps that were returned but had the stands switch reworked?