Regarding smooth surf vs technical surf: I feel that the satisfaction from a smooth map is gained instantly on a juicy board, whereas most people (probably even tech surfers) don't enjoy the first playthrough of a technical map too much. It is when you start to realize that you can build a lot of muscle memory, always keep the mouse moving and see your consistency bringing you closer to that nofail where tech really shines imo.
sometimes you have to do the most unintuitive lines to gain speed and there are so many tradeoffs that you have to make between height and speed that it never seems to lose its sheen (even when I'm inactive for years)
Great interview! Love Beetle and qr :D I remember beating the 666 b6 as the hardest (at the time) thing in surf, and then beetle came in and destroyed surfers' opinion of their own skill level with mdrn b4 (at least it did for me, until I beat it) The surf_mesa history video idea you mentioned reminded me of the time when I made the surf_mesa_fixed version, which pushed the WRs on the map even further, as the original version of the map was unplayable if you surfed the bottom of the ramps - the big mesa skip very likely wouldn't have been possible without the fix, which might be a fun fact that you didn't know! Also on the topic of trackmania's Cup Of The Day in surf and a surf map editor, there's my ongoing Surf Map Of The Day project, which aims to achieve both of those, at least until Momentum actually implements it into the game as a fully functional gamemode - hopefully this doesn't sound like an ad, as I'm not gaining anything from this, but if anyone is interested, feel free to reach out! Hoping to see more interviews from you, because as much as I enjoy your videos that target new people, I'm happy to see the videos that appeal more to people who have already been IN the community for years!
These interviews are by far my favourite videos of yours Repster!, especially love it when you have 2+ people on from the same or overlapping periods of time in surf history and they talk between them selves about what it was like.
I remember Beta testing the surf timer, surf was easier and harder back then. Getting a nofail was a map record and there only a few surfers doing it. Completing a now t5 map was an accomplishment beyond belief. Surf has definitely progressed but the skill gap now is absolutely insane, but back in the day we played for community first and skill was secondary. You also only had around 7 minutes to complete a map before the kill stage, it would then restart. The killing at the end of a map is something that is just not seen anymore. Amazing content as always lad, keep it up !
I don't usually comment on videos, but this was a great listen for someone that enjoys surf as a passtime but isn't fully embedded into the community. Thanks for putting this together and it was really insightful!
Been surfing on and off since KSF first started. Awesome interview, was there for a lot of those times. Watched Trofle get the omnific WR live. Good times man.
great great video, loved listening to a past pastime, quality is top notch and I can feel the editing effort to add all the maps on top but it's so good for the viewer. I do want to add an almost pointless correction, iirc corruption was the first tier 7 (definitely was on ksfgo, so was the first ksf tier 7 for sure), and remember fighting (probably with beetle and others) for the tier system change around it's release. Also started the fight for wrcps and wrbs to be increased in points because people like redvenom were massively under rewarded. Not enough melinder mentioning, I was personally a big fan of Beetle back in 2016 and I think his mantle of being the fastest surfer was taken by mel, they were both so good in the time. In regards to top 5 of all time, good arguments for Caff but Levi is just something else truly. His 1 shot wr on chateau in a tournament is imo the most significant gaming skill display I've ever seen. thanks for the entertainment while I got some work done.
On the topic of Hammer at the end, I agree with everything said. I feel like we'd get so many more new and creative maps if we just had an easier way of making them. I use a lot of CAD software studying architecture and even I can't really wrap my head around Hammer that well. I can only imagine how difficult it would be for someone that has absolutely no experience with that sort of thing.
In regards to 14:43, it was the exact same in bhop. Before 2015 or so in most cases players just pumped out the records. Play on a random map on a full server, just get the record, regardless of whether or not it was good or could easily be beaten, and rtv to the next map. There were few maps where some players actually tried to get a really good time. Mostly some longer maps that took 10 minutes or more to beat (at least at the time), outside of kz_bhop maps. Those were cool times. Around 2015 must've been when the first private/whitelist servers appeared and when players actually grinded the shit out of some maps. Around that time was also when checkpoints that recorded speed and view angle came into play and they're probably a/the major reason players started grinding on maps. No more having to prespeed or trying to find the correct speed with a !nc (noclip)-toggle to practice a certain sequence of jumps. Before that it was so tedious to practice on some maps that most players just didn't bother with it. I assume it was the same in surf.
i think if there wasn't such a split in the community of surf between all the different games, if there was a way for beginners to easily learn the ins and outs and not get trolled/told to figure it out, if you could replay more than just yourself and the WR (so you could progressively get better/understand the mechanics better than just copying a WR route exactly). Also mic chat is so toxic in game at times.
yeah 100%, everything is so fragmented that it's hard to skill up. I've found it hard to get better at prestrafing as the speed is always displayed in the chat
Thank your tor this interview, as always very interesting. Both Beetle's and qr's opinion on the tiering of the maps is so on point. I'm a noob surfer, I mostly hop on tier 1-2 maps and sometimes I really struggle when some other tier 1-2 maps are walk in the park. I think I've beaten maps that were tier 3 that were easier than some tier 2 maps. I don't agree on the not re-tiering the maps, cuz some maps are really in the tier that they are not supposed to be in and there should be a way, as qr for example said automated one, which can rank the map.
@@Repster Yeah it is an interesting idea, but when I think about it it would take a long time to grade these. For example an idea how it could go: You use TAS and use route on the maps that is as creator of the map probably intended it AKA no WR strats. Then you would have to go through every unique movement that has TAS in the store and grade it for points in scale for example 1-10 how difficult that thing is and then you could probably compute the number and depending on the numbers you would have an estimate for each map which would result in a tier. I know at first it could probably work, but first thing that this idea fail is - how do you say to TAS that this is where the different movement starts and where it ends.
This podcast was amazing. Makes me wish I got more involved with the community back then. Started around 2013 on csgo and got to expert on horizon servers.
35:50 This is what makes trackmania ao special. The community doesnt care as long as u dont cheat. Some 13 second wr maps have some techs that are extremly hard to pull off. And essentially means failing 40000 times before u get an attempt. I played on a mega clan server called hells gamers back in the day. And some wr existed that might be considered exploiting but none of us cared.
Interesting video, "Surf is dead" is definitely the biggest catch phrase in surf, people have been saying it since 2006 when surf was still in it's beginnings on source, when people were saying that anti-grav will save surf lmao.
What an excellent interview. I 100% agree that omnific was one of the biggest points in surf. Actually Seeing Sinsa videos, and then Omnific were the some of the reasons I started to surf personally. Loved Beetle And qr going at it a bit haha.
50:17 isn't that already a thing on bhop servers? I don't know which plugin that is or how exactly it works, but on rtv, when the map changes if it has 0 runs on it it is tier 0, if it has 1 run it is tier 1, am i right? I haven't played that much surf, especially on ksf i don't know how these points work exactly
I surf in GMOD on the BB servers and personally over the course of the last 4 days I have seen 5 brand new players join the server and get the achievements “play around” and “play multiplayer”. I believe the community is still very strong especially if the top surfers are still being competitive and friendly to newcomers
The conversation on the tier system really hits home as a semi new player. I remember thinking the back half of surf summer feeling like a tier two, and now six months later after countless runs and muscle memory on each stage it definitely feels like a tier one. I actually love the automated system idea as well and could think we could use some statistics or analytics to drill down the tiers.
just found you recently, I have been surfing for fun for around 13 years and am so glad to see someone making surf content still. I havnt seen many other but on Kick im one of like 3 Surf streamers and I never see surf on twitch. Keep doing your thing.
Levi, Sinsa and Melinder are the most efficient surfers afaik. When comparing based on WRs (of significance) in relation to time spent. Synki has alot of hours but could flood the !rr list any time, haven’t seen anyone do that quite like him. My opinion is that extra cred should be given to surfers who play on public servers and can do both aids maps and smooth. I still remember the days when Trofle got shit for farming rickzter wrcp’s on Boo’s private server (one of the first privates). Biggest moment in surf for me is probs Raiins omnific nofail but I wasn’t around for it. Surf definitely changed forever when priv servers became the norm. Another big one was saveloc as well as cpr in saveloc.
As of rn for me it’s July 21 2024 and cs:s is my absolute favorite game I mean I might just try and become better and get on ksf I mean I’m smooth but not that good but ima make my way up this is my absolute favorite game rn
I wish more people talked about Morning & Habitat, I feel like they played a big role to the competitvness of early surf. Edit: You made a video 1 year ago, I just found it. Thank you so much!
2 hours well spent. Omnific was mind blowing for a lot of us. However, in my opinion Sl4sher making the first surf timer was by far the biggest turning point for surf. Keep up the good work, Repster!
I feel like better surfers are not as friendly as they used to be like around 2016. When you asked a question on a server back then, you normally got an answer or help aswell from the better guys but now nobody is even responding in the slightest. I remember I struggled with some stuff like keeping speed or doing a flick on a specific map when the record holder of the map come and spec me and help me out with that. Nowadays if there is help, they just say go whatch it on youtube, if they say anything at all. Not a nice community anymore
thanks so much for having us on repster, fantastic job with the editing. love what you're doing for surf, keep up the great work : - )
this won't get the views but this is the best content for hardcore surfers. thanks for continuing these.
"something alot of surf maps lack is a reward for finishing them" So true, wish more maps had something cool at the end.
qr is so polite, didn't even mention he created the universe
Gotta stay humble
he also invented maxvel surf
Beetles tiering take is extremely based.
I love it
Regarding smooth surf vs technical surf:
I feel that the satisfaction from a smooth map is gained instantly on a juicy board,
whereas most people (probably even tech surfers) don't enjoy the first playthrough of a technical map too much. It is when you start to realize that you can build a lot of muscle memory, always keep the mouse moving and see your consistency bringing you closer to that nofail where tech really shines imo.
i really enjoy it when maps have a ton of really deranged angles and ramp boards and head checks because it makes the map feel like a puzzle to solve
sometimes you have to do the most unintuitive lines to gain speed and there are so many tradeoffs that you have to make between height and speed that it never seems to lose its sheen (even when I'm inactive for years)
Great interview! Love Beetle and qr :D I remember beating the 666 b6 as the hardest (at the time) thing in surf, and then beetle came in and destroyed surfers' opinion of their own skill level with mdrn b4 (at least it did for me, until I beat it)
The surf_mesa history video idea you mentioned reminded me of the time when I made the surf_mesa_fixed version, which pushed the WRs on the map even further, as the original version of the map was unplayable if you surfed the bottom of the ramps - the big mesa skip very likely wouldn't have been possible without the fix, which might be a fun fact that you didn't know!
Also on the topic of trackmania's Cup Of The Day in surf and a surf map editor, there's my ongoing Surf Map Of The Day project, which aims to achieve both of those, at least until Momentum actually implements it into the game as a fully functional gamemode - hopefully this doesn't sound like an ad, as I'm not gaining anything from this, but if anyone is interested, feel free to reach out!
Hoping to see more interviews from you, because as much as I enjoy your videos that target new people, I'm happy to see the videos that appeal more to people who have already been IN the community for years!
Thank you for putting all the map names over the footage. I feel like this has been missing from your previous videos :)
Yeah it's too obstructive in other vids, but for long podcasts like these it's worth it
oh my god 2 hours of surf chat hell yea
These interviews are by far my favourite videos of yours Repster!, especially love it when you have 2+ people on from the same or overlapping periods of time in surf history and they talk between them selves about what it was like.
Outstanding video! Loved the casual format
I remember Beta testing the surf timer, surf was easier and harder back then. Getting a nofail was a map record and there only a few surfers doing it. Completing a now t5 map was an accomplishment beyond belief. Surf has definitely progressed but the skill gap now is absolutely insane, but back in the day we played for community first and skill was secondary.
You also only had around 7 minutes to complete a map before the kill stage, it would then restart. The killing at the end of a map is something that is just not seen anymore.
Amazing content as always lad, keep it up !
Kill stage?? Wtf
This deserves a video
@@matthewpamatian4853 Surf maps used to run on a timer, the further you get in the map, the better the gun you get in the DM arena.
I don't usually comment on videos, but this was a great listen for someone that enjoys surf as a passtime but isn't fully embedded into the community. Thanks for putting this together and it was really insightful!
Nice video, interesting watch and good questions. Both beetle and qr did well. 'tis was fun to watch, keep em coming!
This episode was great and you're a fantastic host. It almost feels like you have a background in journalism or something
Been surfing on and off since KSF first started. Awesome interview, was there for a lot of those times. Watched Trofle get the omnific WR live. Good times man.
Amazing video!
Banger video, always love the interviews.
great great video, loved listening to a past pastime, quality is top notch and I can feel the editing effort to add all the maps on top but it's so good for the viewer.
I do want to add an almost pointless correction, iirc corruption was the first tier 7 (definitely was on ksfgo, so was the first ksf tier 7 for sure), and remember fighting (probably with beetle and others) for the tier system change around it's release. Also started the fight for wrcps and wrbs to be increased in points because people like redvenom were massively under rewarded.
Not enough melinder mentioning, I was personally a big fan of Beetle back in 2016 and I think his mantle of being the fastest surfer was taken by mel, they were both so good in the time.
In regards to top 5 of all time, good arguments for Caff but Levi is just something else truly. His 1 shot wr on chateau in a tournament is imo the most significant gaming skill display I've ever seen.
thanks for the entertainment while I got some work done.
I enjoy this interview so much. Thank yall
On the topic of Hammer at the end, I agree with everything said. I feel like we'd get so many more new and creative maps if we just had an easier way of making them. I use a lot of CAD software studying architecture and even I can't really wrap my head around Hammer that well. I can only imagine how difficult it would be for someone that has absolutely no experience with that sort of thing.
ive always been calling out that some maps are harder than what their tier says but i always get flamed for it in servers.
the tiers need some serious rework IMO
Always love these
oh this is so going into my online gaming history playlist
you are so underrated, love ur content!
first time seeing anyone mention skimountain ever
keep it up
As a old TFC relic that has only ever watched surf from a distance this was far to entertaining!
In regards to 14:43, it was the exact same in bhop.
Before 2015 or so in most cases players just pumped out the records. Play on a random map on a full server, just get the record, regardless of whether or not it was good or could easily be beaten, and rtv to the next map. There were few maps where some players actually tried to get a really good time. Mostly some longer maps that took 10 minutes or more to beat (at least at the time), outside of kz_bhop maps. Those were cool times.
Around 2015 must've been when the first private/whitelist servers appeared and when players actually grinded the shit out of some maps. Around that time was also when checkpoints that recorded speed and view angle came into play and they're probably a/the major reason players started grinding on maps. No more having to prespeed or trying to find the correct speed with a !nc (noclip)-toggle to practice a certain sequence of jumps. Before that it was so tedious to practice on some maps that most players just didn't bother with it. I assume it was the same in surf.
Another banger
It's true It does lead to stagnation, Look at trackmania maps being out for this long and Glitches/Techniques still being discovered. It's cool
i think if there wasn't such a split in the community of surf between all the different games, if there was a way for beginners to easily learn the ins and outs and not get trolled/told to figure it out, if you could replay more than just yourself and the WR (so you could progressively get better/understand the mechanics better than just copying a WR route exactly). Also mic chat is so toxic in game at times.
yeah 100%, everything is so fragmented that it's hard to skill up. I've found it hard to get better at prestrafing as the speed is always displayed in the chat
Thank your tor this interview, as always very interesting. Both Beetle's and qr's opinion on the tiering of the maps is so on point. I'm a noob surfer, I mostly hop on tier 1-2 maps and sometimes I really struggle when some other tier 1-2 maps are walk in the park. I think I've beaten maps that were tier 3 that were easier than some tier 2 maps. I don't agree on the not re-tiering the maps, cuz some maps are really in the tier that they are not supposed to be in and there should be a way, as qr for example said automated one, which can rank the map.
the automated system was such an interesting idea! I believe KSF is unlikely to change their system, but perhaps other servers can.
@@Repster Yeah it is an interesting idea, but when I think about it it would take a long time to grade these. For example an idea how it could go: You use TAS and use route on the maps that is as creator of the map probably intended it AKA no WR strats. Then you would have to go through every unique movement that has TAS in the store and grade it for points in scale for example 1-10 how difficult that thing is and then you could probably compute the number and depending on the numbers you would have an estimate for each map which would result in a tier. I know at first it could probably work, but first thing that this idea fail is - how do you say to TAS that this is where the different movement starts and where it ends.
I love this
For the raiting system. Split it up.
New maps get graded differently than old maps.
This podcast was amazing. Makes me wish I got more involved with the community back then. Started around 2013 on csgo and got to expert on horizon servers.
35:50
This is what makes trackmania ao special.
The community doesnt care as long as u dont cheat. Some 13 second wr maps have some techs that are extremly hard to pull off. And essentially means failing 40000 times before u get an attempt.
I played on a mega clan server called hells gamers back in the day. And some wr existed that might be considered exploiting but none of us cared.
I want to welcome our newest member to our surf community, he's name is WoDDart I think he will smash many records.
Thanks to all 3 of you for 2 entertaining hours :)
noti gang
cool video
notif gang, but fr holy shit almost 2hrs of content in one vid, love it repster thanks for your dedication to the community and love your vids ❤️
Brothel is my favorite surfer
Oh this silly russians with their glitched wrcps, right? 🤔
Where is st0tty true
Boat
what ABOUT SURF_DELUSION?
I had vivid memories playing that map as a kid on cs:source, i thought it was one of the coolest maps ever made
surf_delusional t2 staged?
Thanks for having us! It was a blast.
Thank you so much for pumping out this surf content. You are truly doing wonders for the community.
Hearing qr talk about getting banned for finding forbidden tech brings a tear to my eye. Good times
"who would wanna play a dead game" if its still fun and enjoyable, then me. id rather play a dead game i love than a popular game i fucking hate.
another banger interview
Interesting video, "Surf is dead" is definitely the biggest catch phrase in surf, people have been saying it since 2006 when surf was still in it's beginnings on source, when people were saying that anti-grav will save surf lmao.
What an excellent interview. I 100% agree that omnific was one of the biggest points in surf. Actually Seeing Sinsa videos, and then Omnific were the some of the reasons I started to surf personally. Loved Beetle And qr going at it a bit haha.
50:17 isn't that already a thing on bhop servers? I don't know which plugin that is or how exactly it works, but on rtv, when the map changes if it has 0 runs on it it is tier 0, if it has 1 run it is tier 1, am i right? I haven't played that much surf, especially on ksf i don't know how these points work exactly
One of the best CS content creators out rn, keep killing it
notification gang
Shout out to all the sky world ogs
I surf in GMOD on the BB servers and personally over the course of the last 4 days I have seen 5 brand new players join the server and get the achievements “play around” and “play multiplayer”. I believe the community is still very strong especially if the top surfers are still being competitive and friendly to newcomers
The conversation on the tier system really hits home as a semi new player. I remember thinking the back half of surf summer feeling like a tier two, and now six months later after countless runs and muscle memory on each stage it definitely feels like a tier one.
I actually love the automated system idea as well and could think we could use some statistics or analytics to drill down the tiers.
The only person who can make ohio jokes and make it funny💀
I hate to pick a favorite, but this is my favorite interview.
I stopped playing a long time ago. Yet gems like this make me nostalgic. I appriciate your work Repster.
10 k subs before summer come on!!
wtf qr also did surf?
just found you recently, I have been surfing for fun for around 13 years and am so glad to see someone making surf content still. I havnt seen many other but on Kick im one of like 3 Surf streamers and I never see surf on twitch. Keep doing your thing.
Very Nice video bro. Keep it up❤🎉🎉
Great stuff!
Levi, Sinsa and Melinder are the most efficient surfers afaik. When comparing based on WRs (of significance) in relation to time spent. Synki has alot of hours but could flood the !rr list any time, haven’t seen anyone do that quite like him.
My opinion is that extra cred should be given to surfers who play on public servers and can do both aids maps and smooth. I still remember the days when Trofle got shit for farming rickzter wrcp’s on Boo’s private server (one of the first privates). Biggest moment in surf for me is probs Raiins omnific nofail but I wasn’t around for it. Surf definitely changed forever when priv servers became the norm. Another big one was saveloc as well as cpr in saveloc.
this is amazing
👍
i think i played one of allcaps' quake maps (if it's the same guy)
As of rn for me it’s July 21 2024 and cs:s is my absolute favorite game I mean I might just try and become better and get on ksf I mean I’m smooth but not that good but ima make my way up this is my absolute favorite game rn
I wish more people talked about Morning & Habitat, I feel like they played a big role to the competitvness of early surf.
Edit: You made a video 1 year ago, I just found it. Thank you so much!
2 hours well spent. Omnific was mind blowing for a lot of us. However, in my opinion Sl4sher making the first surf timer was by far the biggest turning point for surf. Keep up the good work, Repster!
I still remember two (random) guys, who each were kind enough to teach me how to bhop and surf in CS1, back in 04/05.
I feel like better surfers are not as friendly as they used to be like around 2016. When you asked a question on a server back then, you normally got an answer or help aswell from the better guys but now nobody is even responding in the slightest.
I remember I struggled with some stuff like keeping speed or doing a flick on a specific map when the record holder of the map come and spec me and help me out with that.
Nowadays if there is help, they just say go whatch it on youtube, if they say anything at all. Not a nice community anymore
my fav video on youtube took me back to when i was a dumb lil teen that wouldnt get off surf on css
Wonderful interview boys :)
This is so cool to see. I remember playing with Beetle like daily on KSF. Habitat was a wild one
b0atyVV to you good sir Beetle
Do we have a link on that map list?
Where is kusche in the top 5 list?
this is sick
I remember getting on surf in cs1.6 about 10 years ago.
surf ski 2, surf sand, surf green. damn, brings back memories)
👏🦕
Can I give you some people you really need to talk to? I am still friends with some legends who you would benefit speaking to for this series.
For sure, feel free to contact me via my email or at my discord repster#4992