THE MODULAR SYNTH MAGIC OF MULTIPLES
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- Опубликовано: 26 фев 2020
- Routing is important, utilities rule - so let's get into it! Here's a standalone vid to explore the merits of multiples, Tiptop Stackcables, Hosa hopscotch cables, (Doepfer) Switched Multiples, and the new Doepfer A182-2 Quad Switches.
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As far as mults... buffered mults (powered) are great for signals where any sag in the voltage could lead to unwanted inaccuracies. If your CV is controlling pitch information and you want to duplicate it, the buffered mults will protect (in theory) from the copied signal from varying from the source (within reason). It is worth having buffered mults in your system. I wouldn't make a habit of using a switched multiple for mixing gates. That's just asking for trouble via a mistaken patch. A logic module with the "OR" function is perfect for mixing gates if the timing of the logic module isn't an issue. Plus you get a fresh gates out of it.
I have used a mixer to combine gates before. But I would set the volume level to half for each gate and then use the summed output (the mix out) as a crude "AND" circuit as one half-volume gate usually isn't enough to trigger a module expecting a gate.
Pinned for truth, thanks!
An in-between passive component approach that's also relatively safe is to use diodes on designated inputs. So for example, you can make a switched multiple with three input jacks (connecting them across diodes to the switch common inputs) and two designated output jacks, one for each of the left or right switch busses. Mixing pulses on the three inputs is relatively safe due to the diode protection. Doepfer's wonderful DIY information page recommends this. Best of all, this design fits on a 2hp pre-drilled panel with 8 holes.
Yeah, the concern I have that when using the quad switch the pitch CV will be inaccurate as it is only passive. Do I have to worry about that? Are there any solutions, if one would love to quickly switch between 2 voices that are being send the same melody?
Is it really as easy as soldering each of the plugs end connections together with wire, being sure to cut off your preferred break point, and wiring the middle connection of each plug to the corresponding connection of the switch? I've seen a couple diagrams that appear to use resistors to make the connection from plug to port.
"I wouldn't make a habit of using a switched multiple for mixing gates"
I built one with transistor gate at OUT that takes any (even very high) voltage and limits it to 5V.
YOU!!! YOU!!! You are the guy that made me addicted to voltage!!! XD hahah thank you so much for these videos as a guy living in rural area its a blessing to take part of the online Modular scene :D
Thanks - I’m in the woods too!! Int the internet marvellous
Best thing about the transition from one month to another...a new Mylar video :)
Don't forget, with stack cables, you can get another multiple from the OTHER jack on the stack cable. So, one stack cable can provide two mults.
Awesome video! Informative as always.
That's a great point, should have mentioned, though I always feel like it's wrong when I do it!
I do not get that, a stackable is bi-directional meaning any connector can act as an input (the other three will always be outputs in normal use), using a female connection on it as an input can be handy for bridging distances (people tend to overlook that).
Perhaps you mean you can provide three mults? But that is the same as double stacking.
@@mylarmelodies by chaining stackcables like this you never need to stack more than two high. Each stackable on an output provides 2 copies of that output.
I only recently realised this, but it of course makes total sense. The only thing to make sure is that your multi-stackcable system is only ever connected to one output.
eurorack youtube: brand-new paid-for module reviews & ridiculous unboxings
Mylar: combines utilities and mults we already have for patches that will make us love our current setup more
For a Eurorack noob these videos are fantastic. Keep up the good work.
Just wanted to say this explanatory vid was exactly what I was looking for - cheers!
already have several multiples built, but I will be diy-ing both the switched multiples. Thanks for showing/explaining 👍🏻
Thank you for this video, i was searching for a solution to switch gate/pitch from 2 separate sequencers and the Doepfer A182-2 is exactly what i need. Love the ability to use as 2in/1out or 2out/1in -- very handy!
This is exactly what I was looking for, the Quad Switches, to be able to use 2 different sequencers to the same Voice, not at the same time. Thank you!
thank you for the explanations you help me a lot to understand how the modules work, I like.
Fantastically helpful, thanks. You just made a sale of that Doepfer module.
Love these videos, especially all the examples!
Informative as ever, looks like it's time to build some switching units for my modular
Simple and elegant use of utilities to great effect. Top-tier work, my guy.
Thanks for this really useful guide. I now need 2 Doepfer A182-2 modules!
Very informative, especially for a noob. It wasn't a month ago I said I wasn't ready to dig the bottomless money pit of analog/hardware gear, and here I am waiting for a case and some modules, vcv rackin and modular grid planning. So much fun
I always use them as mixers in a mono system like the MN shared with the big center mult. It's not recommended or supported, but I can mult the Left, Right and Center channels and create send/returns. As long as you don't connect out to out, you're fine. And finally, I would have never got a doepfer switched mult without your excellent videos (and the circles, and a lot more). That 182-2 is a great idea again. Thanx!
As always, great video. I love passive multiples + switches. I use them for example with LFOs, ENVs and Gates in combination with passive attenuators and send them as additional modulation sources to modules like effects, filters, VCAs or panning modules . May be something for your next video!?!
Such great tools to get lost in patching...
This is great. I am always thinking about this. I think I need a switched mult for my SSM that doepfer looks great. . Cheers mate.
Build your own! It's a few jacks and a switch. Even buffered isn't that much more complexity.
Also for anyone wondering after 17:20 and checking the description, these are SPDT switches. Stands for Single Pole, Double Throw, which means:
SP: Only one possible connection at once.
DT: Two separate positions for that connection.
Schematic symbol makes more sense than the name, with ASCII it's something like:
_____
____/ _____
Not quite, they're SP3T (sometimes called on-off-on) toggle switches. SPDT (or, on-on) switches would also work for this application, but wouldn't have the "mute" position in the middle.
I built one of these! It's unbuffered and totally passive, pretty easy to figure out if you know how switches and jacks work!
i picked up a switched mult from the chap at ph modular
for a few smackeroonies and loved using it to vary melodies around the patch, same layout as the one you made with some blinkenlights. there's a 2hp studio electronics router module that's half the a182-2, though the layout isn't as playable. haven't put that one to use yet, but you've inspired me to try and work out some fun patches with it - i should sick an rcd+pressure points onto it. great application at the end, never would have thought of that. love my mylar videos.
Very well explained, no nonsense, thanks
Mylar video on something I don't relly understand!! YAS!
It's good to see the mini case making a return!
With regard to the shorting outputs together:
Depending on how the output of the module is configured shorting it can be fine. I'd say any module worth its salt should have been built with shorting in mind. Typically the worst thing that happens is the output driver gets a little unhappy while the short happens but shouldn't be damaged in the process.
Mylar Melodies back at what he does best.
Haha ! I mentioned the A182-1 at your last developing performance case video. Exactly for adding gates. Together with an OXOR. A-166 and VC ratcheting A-160-5. and with A-151 A-150 . It’s really playing complexity
You can daisy-chain stackable cables and multiply as many times as you like and always keeping stack height to two on each socket. From clock to kick with first stackable patch cable. From kick to hihat with 2nd. From HiHat to snare with 3rd. From snare to clap with 4th cable and so on for as many as you need.
The way you present stuff makes me wanna grab in the screen and take it.
using those 3 position switches like that is super clever! time to make a switched mult...
Hi Mylar thanks for these awesome videos you put up! They’re incredibly helpful (aside from to my bank account) and they’ve been tremendous in aiding me through my new modular journey. I bought a circadian rhythms as my first sequencer and after watching a couple of videos on your channel i picked up a grids and a switched multiple to trigger my drums exactly how you do yours. I am planning (grids / A182 are arriving this week) on sending my kicks and snares with Circadian Rhythms and Grids triggering them to my WMD Crater (for the kick) and 1010music blackbox (for the snare). Should I be worried about breaking those two modules with multiple triggers going in?
It's fine to split signals with a switched mult, but I'd be concerned about mixing a high gate with a low gate. That said, Eurorack Hardware makes an excellent, cheap, and easy DIY kit which uses diodes to ensure that nothing goes backwards to a module's output and lets you mix the gates safely. It's called E-OR and it costs $40 USD. There's an A input, B input and an Output. The switch lets you select A, B, or A+B. Super useful! They also make a three input OR module kit that can combine three gates (no switch though) for $35 USD.
Dope! gonna order me some switches.
Excellent vid, as always - thank you!!!!! What would we do without you?
A typical output impedance is 10kΩ. A typical input impedance is 1 kΩ or less, so you can generally multi a signal 10 times. Of course, you can always use a buffered multiple, in which case, EACH output is independent copy of the multed signal and can itself be split 10 times.
Bit late commenting, but I've found a great module that does a bit of both, by Tesseract Modular, called SelectA. It's both, a passive (bi-directional) A/B switch just like the Doepfer one in this video, and, an A/B/A+B "Or" logic combiner module (and because it's a passive diode based OR circuit, it acts as both, a half wave rectifier, AND a MAX circuit, like the MAX output on Maths. ) And even this circuit is bidirectional, if you just want, say, the negative half wave of an oscillator, patch it backwards and then you can send that negative half wave to one or two different destinations. You get four channels of each function (eight channels total, four a/b switches, four a+b Or/Max logics) all in 8hp.
They appear to be 1P3T (SP3T), on-off-on micro rocker switches. The on-off-(on) variety are my favorite, although these are of the more expensive types as well. The (on)-off-(on) switches are by far more common so more affordable. The (on) or ‘mom’ simply indicates that these are momentarily thrown, or, they have a spring within that forces the rocker to return to the middle position. They’d make it necessary to physically hold the switch down while needing it thrown. But then let go, and they automatically return to the neutral position. I owe my gratitude to China for my switch knowledge. I AM AMERICA, and I LOVE CHINA! Please keep sending Fentanyl?! AWESOME JOB, THANKS AGAIN!!
Every video I watch brings my GAS levels to new heights
Just to clarify on that Doepfer, at first you were using 1 input and sending it to 2 outputs, but then when you combined the sequencers you changed it to 2 inputs and 1 output (per section), correct?
I initially thought you were saying the middle jack was the input, so just got confused.
Great video! Love that you've been sharing your progress as you evolve your system to be more playable!
Correct, just think of it as "making a connection" rather than in terms of ins and outs. If the middle one is IN you can make a connection to the top (so it needs to be an OUT) or the bottom (also needs to be an OUT), but not to both at the same time. If the middle one is the OUT, top and bottom both need to be INs as you don't want to be making connections from an OUT of one module to an OUT of another module (although that is technically what he is doing earlier when he is "combining" gates from the EC2, it's basically the same as patching the trigger OUT from one EC2 channel into the the trigger OUT of another channel. Doesn't seem right to me, and depending on the module, might be dangerous). The Doepfer switch circumvents this by having a "no connection" in the middle position, so you are never able to connect the top and the bottom OUTs to each other.
Yea, got a couple of the Doepfer switches - brilliant and a bit of a game changer with sequencers and routing around the rack. In a bigger system you could easily usilize half a dozen :)
24:23 now if you take the gate and pitch outputs of the bottom two switches and, instead of patching them into gate and pitch in on the 303, patch them into the middle of the top two switches, you have two different gate patterns, two different pitch patterns being able to be sent to two different oscillators/envelopes. 8 different combinations. If you put a little shrink tube around the top two switches you can flip them always at once, thus always sending pitch and envelope to one or the other. However, you also might want to have the option to be able to send the gate to an oscillator that runs at a constant pitch or the pitch to an oscillator that drones, so doesn't need a gate. Endless possibilities!
Great insight on the switches. I'll definitely be adding the quad switch to my rack. What are your thoughts on the Joranalogue Switch 4?
Incredible videos! congrats! by the way... What do you think about module Autopilot - Endorphin?
Eurorack Hardware make the E-OR, a selectable gate switch that uses diodes to isolate inputs. The kit version is $20 USD and the built version is $35 USD. For each channel, there's an A input, a B input and an output. A three-position switch selects from A, A+B, or B. Each unit is two switched channels. They are great for selecting between two gate rhythms from Pamela's NEW Workout, or I can combine the rhythms. You can also leave the B input unconnected and switch to B to mute the gate and A to enable it. They really are terrific live, and super cheap. I bought three of these!
Wow this is how i do it too! That 4/4 flip to variation is the play for sure!
I’ve been Messing around with this same concept, using lots of logic and multiplied switches to create varying drums for techno.
Curious if more inputs is more risky? I was thinking of using 6 different sequences you could then combine in so many variations.
Oh yes, excellent module...i was asking me about use it for music more than rythm variations,and it's look very awesome for musical way,with a clockdiv to make sub,it can be awesome, doepfer is really good !!!!!need it!🤙🤙🤙(im talking about the quadswitch...)
alex i’ve just filled up my two cases don’t do this to me
I sorry
A safer way to combine your gates would be to make a passive OR module which is basically a diode between each input and a common output The diodes will reduce the incoming voltage by a bit (usually about 0.7 volts, depending on the diodes you choose) but they will protect the inputs from receiving voltage from the other inputs. To impliment the switching you would basically just solder a diode between the jack and the switch and then have 2 designated outputs that the switches are connected to.
Thank you for sharing. You made me buy the “old” switch before already)
You never need to stack one stackable cable into another - interleave stackables with normal cables between and you can make as many signal copies as you need (assuming the source can supply enough electrons). You never need a stack more than two plugs high - the stackable and a standard cable!
Wait I'm confused by this. After you stack the regular cable into the stackable, how do make more copies? I know you could also patch into the other side of the stackable, but still that would be only 3 copies...
@@thestever take a stackable, put a normal cable into each of the sockets on the stackables plugs. now attach another stackable to the other ends of each of those two standard cables... repeat until you have enough connections. You will never have a stack more than 1 high using this approach, but you can connect up as many sockets as you need - assuming you have enough cables.
The only downside is that occasionally you need to reconfigure the chain, but that's easy enough, and better than having high stacks that put strain on the sockets and on the stackables.
Would the Noise engineering Extra Mullet qualify as a switched mult? I just added one to my setup and it is crazy useful. I had to supplement the passive Doepfer mult that was not adequate which came with my basic Doepfer A100 system.
I was waiting and waiting for a Ladik P-072 switch to pop up somewhere but then Doepfer goes and releases the beautiful A-182-2. No better way to route 4 trigger patterns to all of my hihat modules.
Arrgghhh... Is your mini case just sitting in top of a bunch of plugged in cables?? 😬😬
Love the vid.
might be a shot in the dark but was wondering if you could tell me how to get the type of signal decay on time stamp 1:32 of a lorn song called all corrupt everything, cheers!
great vid btw, helped A LOT
"Oh, hi" and right into topic.
Would that all music video intros were so!
Nice DIY, do you have a good source for the switches (I know they are SPDT, but what size?) and sockets? Thank you
Uhm...the stackable cables you have allow three connections. You can attach a cable to BOTH ends. So it's a one to three for each stack cable.
I have multiple multiple multiple multiple multiple multiple multiple multiple multiple multiple multiple multiple multiple multiple multiples. Big up A-182-2 crew.
As far as i can tell you did not use a debouncing method for build your switched multiple? i always had bouncing errors with my diy one when flipping the switches so i needed to debounce
bless your heart
Have you seen the WMD SL3KT yet? Similar concept to the Doepfer. I’ve been loving it.
YES !! ALL RIGHT ! 🤠🐱🏍
As usual, you have the goods. You should be a teacher during the day and jam at night...
Since you didn't put it in the description, the switches are called on-off-on toggle switches.
Also the "baton icon" is a standard electrical schematic symbol for a switch. It represents a piece of wire that moves so it either connects or doesn't connect.
Just a headsup to Joranalogue SWITCH 4, IMHO the best switch multiple out.
I would love to see how u made that module
Super helpful! I have one question though: I've seen that there are passive multiples and buffered multiples. When would one need a buffered mult?
To distribute voltages typically - so you don’t get a pitch drop by spreading the voltage across multiple destinations - tho in my experience you can still get away with a few without too much drop
Passive multiples are also bidirectional i.e. signal can move from multiple to module and vice versa in all configurations. This can cause some quirkiness with audio or modulating sources, which can be both inspiring and annoying. Buffered multiple signals move one way i.e multiple to module in or module out to multiple. :)
For combining/mixing gates what you really want is a switched OR combiner (also a passive module which you can DIY). You can hurt your modules by sending them more than one gate simultaneously.
Indeed, I talk about that (I think?!! Hope I didn’t cut) - Low-gain Shortbus is a good off the shelf option
On an almost completely unrelated point, those kinda laser-cut style cases, where do they come from?
Question: is the FSS Stumm an example of a switched mult?
... do you think we could maybe get an overview of the M303? If you haven't already!
And my laundry list on modulargrid just got extended, thank you very much. That said, are there voltage controlled switches that can have both, manual and signal control?
Yes - Sequential Switches! Not all allow exact manual control but do some modulargridding and you’ll find options
The Doepfer sites says the A182-2 can handle audio. How does it actually fare? Any bleeding?
I wonder if using an attenuator on the output would protect from high voltages, yet still work with a single gate.
diodes
If i were to buy the doepfer switched multiple, could i snip the cables in the back as you have on your diy? I too prefer 2 rows of 4 for my purposes
You could cut the traces I think with a stanley knife/box cutter - pretty sure that would work!
I took a small hacksaw to my doepfer and sawed the pcb in half. Works perfectly
21:30 Hi
Can you use the Doepfer the other way around? 2 ins to 1 out?
Hi Tom!! Yes - that's exactly what I'm doing at the end with the two sequencers, it's great
Is there an idiots build guide somewhere for the switched multiple you made? I find schematics but I’m useless at figuring this’d out. I’d probably wire something wrong.
maybe use different colors for cables to better distinguish between inputs and outputs?
Doepfer switched multiple now sold out at perfect circuit.
Get the soldering iron out, Mike!
nice seiko giugiaro
Hi :D Awesome vid mate. You definitely got exactly what I meant on twitter. So uhh, just to leave you with a bit of chaos; Let's say hypothetically you wanted to automate the actual flicking of that switch, by say, another external gate sequencer of some kind, how would you do that? And you know what that could be useful for right? ;)
Hah yep - You'd use Sequential Switches!
Acidrain Switchblade is a handy voltage controlled switch.
There’s also a new module from I wanna say WMD (the people that make the performance mixer module” that should be able to do it
I love all of your answers. The thing I'm aiming for is polymorphic patches. Patches that don't just fall under the talkbox / generative tab, but actually rewire themselves based on current "patch-status", basically, blurring the line between modular synths and analog computers. Only thing missing is the interactions between the digital gates and the analog streams (for some added dynamics). It's a shame I don't have the money for it, but damn that would be a nice initial patch to start the clock on!
devjock yeah I like that concept: lots of pathways and overlapping logic that leads you down a maze, like a labrynth that’s slightly familiar but constantly transforming based on previous iterations.
Do stack cables allow you to send for instance two audio sources to a single input?
No, because that means you will also be sending the audio from one source INTO the audio output of the other source. Just imagine using the stackcable as you suggested but without connecting the combined audio jack to your desired input. What do you get? You have just made a connection of two outputs. Not good.
@@andreasstrohlein6772 thank you for the answer
what's that little power supply plz?
Goodjob.my friend..
🌹🌹🌷💐💐👍👍🔔🔔🔔
cracks me me up to see how enthusiastic you are about a switch... so i'll just put it here... what if you will use a ROTARY SWITCH... better yet, use 3 of them to send 3 signals to up to 10 different destinations, something like this shop.befaco.org/en/switches/283-2x-rotary-switch-10p.html just think of the possibilities.... hahahahaha the power is endless and here is yet another idea for you. you can build 3 rows of 8 push switches like this one shop.befaco.org/en/switches/267-5x-push-button.html with 3 inputs feeding from grids into 8 outputs for your slample, so each of your slample channels can be feed from for either of grids outputs or from all of them at once. you can also use a switch like this one www.parts-express.com/spst-red-illuminated-snap-in-mount-push-button-switch-3a-125vac-6a-14vdc--060-668 so you will know when a switch is on or not. now, you can't say that i am not mad... oh, and since the illuminated switch uses leds, than if you'll connect it right you will have protection for your sequencer sine leds are basically diodes ;-)
Do modular synthesists regularly perform in NYC? How can I tune in to this scene?!?
discord.gg/fWkAqpJ / www.reddit.com/r/modular/comments/cbkhgw/modular_on_the_spot_nyc/
Also check out NY Modular Society > nyms.love/
I don't get what's new about it? It's just a bi-directionnal 4xswitch
Because nobody made one like this before Doepfer, AFAIK!
touch sensitive (or at least push button) switch would be much better performance tool
Why didn’t you touch on the different reasons for using passive and buffered multiples? Haha just flipping you some shit. I’m pretty sure you’ve made vids about the subject. 😼 So for the people who asked the difference in “buffered vs. passive” multiples is that you will never get an exact copy of your signal with a passive mult, yes it may be a unnoticeable difference and very minuscule but there will be a drop in voltage. How much of a drop depends on how many copy’s you are making for the most part. A buffered mult uses a powered circuit that copy’s the signal exactly. For most cases a passive mult is just fine, gates etc., but if you are using a mult for something pitch dependent or that you want a exact copy than you want a buffered multiple. There is more too, but that’s a healthy start to understand the difference 🐈💨 I enjoyed the vid.
So how about that final example where he switched between the pitch cv of the two sequencers. Is the pitch affected, or does it stay accurate because it is only being switched, not multed?
Okay, so I haven't gotten through the entire video yet and I'm praying that you don't actually address this:
Passive mults, and that includes stack cables as well as things like the black magic passive mult star thingy, will drop voltage with multiple connections. If you, for instance, patch a rather low-voltage clock signal around and use a passive mult for it, at some point, after a certain number of divisions, your clock won't read anymore. Same goes for CV going to oscillators. They will detune. Ever so slightly at first, but they will. So if you intend to spread one voltage over many recipients, use a buffered mult or live with the fact that the signal won't be perfect once it arrives.
Furthermore, as you unintentionally showed in the video, plugging and unplugging with passive mults can lead to erratic behaviour. This can happen with buffered mults as well, yes, but it doesn't happen as often.
buffered mults are directional though.. you can't do this kind of gate-combining with most of them, because jacks can only be ins OR outs, and not both.
I guess there might be designs that take a few ins and a few outs an allow routing? But probably not usefully in 4HP? I guess a 3-in, 5-out switched buffered mult would be pretty cool. Or 4-in, 4-out.
@@naught101 That's also a good point, I didn't take that into consideration.
That would essentially be a "dumb" mixer and a multiple rolled into one module. I don't think I've ever seen one of those, but we're talking eurorack, so it might well exist. Would be a cool utility module though.
@@designator7402 Yeah, it could be super fun. Basically a two-channel mixer/mult with assignable ins and outs. I don't actually think I can think of a way I'd use it right now, but it sounds like one of those modules that might result in a whole lot of serendipity :)
The shit thing about stack cables is that the inventors and only suppliers at Tip Top Audio offer them at a ridiculously high price point. The are sexy but I will never buy them. If they were reasonably priced I for shure had lots of them.
They are probably not as cheap as you like since they’re a very niche product that is completely custom made/moulded unlike the majority of cables - if you think £6 is bad for a cable wait till ya see the audiophile market!! 😉
uh is that a ripley seiko chronograph???
😋
@@mylarmelodies love these instructional vids, always learn a lot and get great ideas for new modules. Thanks!
PS. It's not the ACTUAL Ripley Seiko but a mashup of SCED039 and SCED041
@@mylarmelodies oh why split hairs, it's dope
Tish and fipsy
literally.
wat
Don’t drop one of those cables In that open powered case dog.
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