I just started a DA army and i'm instantly going back to finish my Death Korp of Krieg instead. 😂 Not because the rules are bad but because everything i found cool is now super uncool and unsatisfying. (My army project was going to be focused around the Lion and Deathwing knights+terminators)
Nothing got better. Well, one character did, barely, with an increase in their melee profile. EVERYTHING ELSE got worse. 'Disappointment' doesn't cover it.
This has been how I have been feeling as Blood angels player, Sang Guard have the same pains as Deathwing knights do now :(((( it sucks like they only way to fix it would be to rewrite the datasheet, points doesn't fix the problems since they are just underwhelming for elite units. like if they had lance baked in for swords, then we could be doing well.
its crazy how I’d rather have not gotten a codex or new models for three years instead of having my army of 15 years being gutted at every level of flavor and character.
As a dark angels player, who just finished my army last week, I am sick to my stomach. I've spent so much time, energy and money, for what feels like nothing at all now. DA got all their premier units gutted, and their sould sucked out. The lion, who would absolutely smash G man, who stood toe to toe with angron, who is one of the top 3 fighting primarchs has a one damage weapon? GW has to be careful. They are catering way to much to the hyper competitive side of the hobby now, forgetting where the game came from, and that ultimately it is supposed to be fun. Gone are the days of fluffy lore styled units, where the factions had identity.. gone are the days when the games were actually fun and your rules were super unique to your chapter. I remember when u could cast a spell and blow yourself up before. Or a chaos lord could turn himself into a spawn, or ascend to a demon prince.. Now that was 40k. All gone in the favor of "streamlined rules", and "balance". Wow
Looks like they want all space marines to be Ultramarines. But they will graciously allow you to play another chapter by painting the models a different color. They will even support the illusion of free choice by giving us cool characters, and then slowly nerfing them out of existence. We will all be brought into compliance, or else.
I started in 9th and it was tough. Needing 3 new books to get all your rules and extra rules. Stratagems were to overwhelming. But now i wish it would be just like then. The relic bearers, inexorable advance for DG, detachments for your plague company... It was so fluffy. They absolutly fucked death guard aswell. I have been painting them for 5 years now. Hope that they will go back to old days.
I feel you brother , I have worked hard and put a lot of money into my Deathwing and now half of what I have built can just go in the bin. Nothing but a god dam cash grab by GW, they are absolute scum with no regard for the players that pay their wages. To be honest I dont even think that there is a point to carrying on with the hobby anymore, all they will do is continue to change how you need to build your army to keep the money rolling in. This codex is just a taste of what is to come for every faction in the game, get ready to have every army changed so you have to keep buying new models for no other reason than share holders greed greed. The soul has been ripped out of this chapter in such a way that is nothing more than an insult. and the way they have released the the codex just confirms that. A £135 to find out that your chapter of choice has been butchered is nothing more than a slap in the face to everyone in the community, because this is going to happen to everyone across all factions. My advice would be to just play 10th edition rules but with 9th edition codex, then you might still have some fun with the hobby.
Absolutely agreed, the soul has been sucked out from so much of the datasheets in this book, and 100% the best example imo is the deathwing terminators, that mixing and matching was never really an aspect that made Deathwing OP, or super strong comparatively, but it added SO much for such a small little change, just seeing a shooty squad with a TH/SS or Lightning Claw dude, or a cyclone in a full TH/SS squad just... made them LOOK more exciting to use
Warhammer player since 2 Edition: I have seen many ups and downs as the Codex Dark Angels has evolved. The wide range of models we had: - Individual company veterans - I have 30 of these all in robes that cover everything from melee to hard ranged combat = no longer usable in this way - GW still sell these - interrogator chaplain - I love this particularly fierce priest, these have made a lot of difference from a lore point of view = should also no longer be usable = GW still sells these - Talonmaster - I have two of these, one a combination of Techmarine, Swordmaster, Ravenwing Pilot and Scout showing a dynamic model of how marines work together as hunters, in the last editions this model was the leader of the hunt! = retired by GW - DW Command Squad - how can you throw away such a brilliant idea that emphasizes the special character of the Deathwing? = GW still sells these - DW Strikemaster - never used but still important in my opinion What is left that belongs purely to Dark Angels, 2 the two landspeeders, 2 the two fliers, RW Black Knights and the new edition of the DW Knights as well as the new companions - heroes excluded I say that in the next edition everything except the heroes will have been cut out. The game has no value for me anymore, the focus on lack of flexibility, reduction of units that can do something right, as well as the removal of DA only units gives me the feeling that I no longer feel Space Marines like a great fighting game with epic battles and heroes who give everything but rather like a soulless set of rules that only takes math into account and that more bad than right.
It really feels like someone at GW took the communities' complaints about Supplement Chapters having access to the core detachments and decided to "solve" it by making everything unique about the DA bad. Feels terrible to be forced to shelve unique units in favor of playing green Space Marines.
Or just like all this „Dark Angels fans who always liked the legion“ want just better Space Marines. But why should Dark Angels stronger??? Can they field the best Space Marines Termis? Yes! Can the field good bikers? Yes…so why are you complaining? You got 9 detachments to choose from with different units…
@@denniskeler8068But you payed a premium for those units. Now we still pay a premium but get shafted because the units are simply not worth the points they are charging. Part of the fun of playing with divergent chapters is the flavour. Now the flavour is gone. Gabriel Seth summed it up perfectly and it seems as though GW are doing their damnedest to turn everything in to Ultramarines.
@denniskeler8068 it's not about being better, it's about being different. I don't want my DA to feel like Iron Hands that I painted green. I can't run the "meta" Ultramarines list because I don't have their characters. I have the characters from the legion I like, and I'd like to be able to use them without having to sacrifice strength. I don't want to proxy my Lion as Gulliman or Belial as Calgar just to win games. I want my models to not be bad.
@@denniskeler8068 as I said I really don't care much at all about overall 'power', I don't play in any form of competitive way 90% of the time, I just want units that FEEL fun, and feel like they should based on their lore and design, and I feel like GW massively dropped the ball in that regard across pretty much all parts of the Codex. I'm not angry because of the power of it, I'm just sad because as a book it feels less fun to play
@@denniskeler8068 what best terminator? What best bike? Why borther diffrent codex if GW trying to make all space marine become space marine, must well paint all DW termi to green, the soul of Dark angel is gone what i can tell you
The model designers did a bang up job but the rules team completely fumbled it. This is gonna need a correction, a really sizable one. The question is how long are we gonna have to wait for it? I hope the negative buzz online will be a powerful motivator for them, much like we saw with the ridiculous Votaan codex last edition.
@@retrorevivalsuperturbo9428 exactly this, GW are much much better at points changes now, but I feel like for this Codex whilst a points adjustment would make the book 'stronger', it certainly won't make it more fun or thematic, that will require some more substantial redesigns and rewrites which I don't think GW will do anytime soon!
It's a bold strategy to sell models. Instead of new codex power creep, the seem to have decided to make the new cool models worse and more expensive than the regular marine options already out there. Not sure if its gonna work out for them sales wise.
@@piotrjeske4599 Yep, and ironically, DG is probably going to be one of the last codexes to come out, meaning less time with it before the next edition while having to compete with all the power creep up til that point. I doubt we'll be "balanced", probably over or under powered.
As a Black Templars player with a DA successor army, I can't say I was surprised DA were nerfed like this. BT were nerfed when they had their refresh too. Of their 6 special units, 7 if you want to count the Land Raider Crusader, all but 2 were pointless. Helbrecht and PCS were the only two units worth taking. PSB couldn't compete with BGV, Grimaldus could give up 12 VP if an opponent was smart and used the "assassinate" secondary, the Emperor's Champion was good for a week before Custards got their own version the following month which was straight better than the EC in every way, and because everyone became Primaris (except, oddly enough, the First Born Crusader Squad stuck around), the LRC was worthless because it couldn't transport Primaris. So, DA getting nerfed wasn't a surprise, although the nerf being as hard as it is, was. James Workshop is apparently handing out nerfs to all codex divergent Marine factions that get a refresh. Blood Angels, I would prepare for the screwing GW might hand you when your refresh happens
Space Wolves player here, As somebody who has played into this army hundreds of times and lost hundreds of times to it by way of my best buddy playing this faction. I am deeply saddened by the sheer state of unwarranted nerfs this army is taking. the flavour of the faction is completely eroded beyond repair... its an insult to any 40K fan, cause it shows that in one swift motion, they can just gut you of any playability with any faction. talking about my lads too, I know this is coming my way too, and my excitement for my codex is non existent now.
Honestly was about to drop close to $2K on building this army as my very first 40K army but all of the unnessesary nerfs to the entire army and removal of key forces just made me want to keep my money. Whoever at GW is responsible for these decisions to just nerf and remove things for DA for apparantely zero reason should be either demoted or put on a different project. These hits were a solution in search of a problem that does not exist.
If this was your army of choice shouldn't prevent you from still having a casual game rule of cool is always better than trying to play 100% competitive with any army I was in the same boat when they took the ork speed waagh out but dont let rules discourage you from playing what you like you can still figure out a play style that suits the unit and what other units are you running with
Took the words right out of my mouth. The problem is the vibes and suspension of disbelief. The new Companions having neither an invuln nor a 2+ save is nuts to me. How does that make any sense from the lore or game perspective? Also, the deathwing plasma cannon should absolutely be damage 2/3. You shouldnt be more likely to kill yourself rather than the enemy youre shooting.
Such a shame! Dark Angels were my first faction back in 3rd Edition. Last year I came back to 40K, started collecting Grey Knights and Blood Angels and was thinking about going back to the Dark Angels as well. But not if they don't change these rules/profiles and bring back so many lost units. And the worst thing is I am now REALLY concerned about my Grey Knights and Blood Angels...
@@RSBurgener I'm just worried it feels like a push to an overall just more 'generalised' style of Space Marine, and for me half my love for the marines is their uniqueness and differences and it'll be such a shame if BA, SW etc. also get some of their iconic Units just gutted too
@@TheSixMachine I don't know what motivates this push to "streamline" the game on the part of GW. Really it amounts to making it more generic. Yes, get rid of the Hunter and the Stalker. Fine, don't let us use the Kratos tank in 40k. But now they're gutting the Deathwing Command Squad and the Strikemaster? Are they just trying to make this stuff cheaper to produce for themselves? They can't believe this is the way we want it. They learned this lesson with the Chaos Lord with Jump Pack. We don't like having less than we started out with!
Yeah it's just (imo) the LEAST sensible way of 'nerfing' the sword if you think it's OP, drop the number of attacks if you want, but it SHOULD be 2D, because it SHOULD be something that's easily killing a marine in 1 blow, at least in my head the 1D massively detracts from my 'lore' idea of the Lion
@@TheSixMachine maybe GWs logic is trying to bring his sweep profile in line with mortarion or Magnus who both have 1D sweep profiles but it doesn’t fit the Lions lore of being a master swordsman with basically excalibur. Both the defensive and offensive nerfs don’t make sense on top of each other. I think the shield nerf won’t be as bad if they didn’t touch his damage or the other way around.
Started building a DA army… this was such a kick in the nuts I can’t keep painting them, looking at something else, GW getting rid of so many deathwing characters seems like they’re phasing them out
As a casual player that is just starting his DA army, I was sooo excited for the new models and codex. Now, unless they fix things to bring back the flavor I was looking forward to, I may just stick to the smurfs.
@denniskeler8068 Nah, not stronger. I love the look of the various wings of the DA. The whole secrets within secrets within secrets thing appeals to me. The synergies between the units and characters, etc. The new Inner Circle Companions are a case in point. Gorgeous models, and being risen, guarding the inner circle was cool as hell. Now, they are slightly worse, more expensive bladeguard. there is no flavor there.
@@jeffmartin4472 Everybody who played the 10th for the last month knows that the points in the books arent true…and yes i don’t understand that this one unit is disappointing. But the rest??? No!
Points can be adjusted upwards or downwards. That is what it is. As things stand, it appears the Emperor's shield got turned off, and we need to rename Fealty to Pillow. The Deathwing Kinghts seem to have been demoted to Deathwing Squires. The Vengance has become a floating plasma pistol battery. The Inner Circle Companions are basically an understrength assault marine squad.
Feels just like Votann. Did they eventually get good by making everything cheaper? Yes. Did they lose a lot of the fun to just become a point-effective mathhammer? Also yes. Armies should feel fun and unique, and point drops don't do that. Point drops just make you buy more models. But I mean... GW.
Exactly right on the points front, I KNOW they could easily make this Codex S++++ tier with points drops, that still won't make using your 18 10ppm inner circle vets and 15 20ppm deathknight knights feel... WEIRD and unfluffy with their -1ap and just... rather odd rules
To say I'm disappointed is an understatement. More like... I'm F***ing pissed off about this. Does anyone working on the gameplay layout actually play the game??? And they, I hope will fix this in the not too distant future. But not holding my breath. F.F.S!
Being a Terminator fan, I totally feel disappointed! It's a real letdown. I was so hyped about building a Deathwing-only army, with 1 or 2 massive 10-man squad of Deathwing Knights central players. But they capped them at 5, nerfed the mace, and made the swords like sergeant Intercessors (except for the attacks and BS). I would pay the crazy 290 points for the Knights if they hit hard, endure most attacks and taken as 10 man squad. It's not just about the points; it just feels out of sync with the theme of knights, Lion and the companions.
Thanks, appreciate that. And yeah kinda just feels like a bit of a gut punch, as I said I really don't give two hoots about the overall 'power' in terms of competitive/tournaments, I just want the Units to play like they look like they should from a model/lore/design standpoint, and right now a load of them just really don't!
@@skulver I did not do a direct comparison to the Ultramarines but, the Ultramarines lost against the Tyranids in the Leviathan campaign. How well do you think the Dark Angels will fare..?
@@skulver I agree with you on most bases. Here is just my 2 cents. 1: Return the Lion's Sword, the massive 2h brother-beat-down-stick Johnson used to clobber Conrad and give Russ quite a scar. Dump the shield ( He never had one anyway ) to give him the D2 back on his melee arch. Give the sword some really good aura buffs to compensate for the loss of the shield, improve his aura and increase the point cost to 395. Make him a close range monster. He should scream - Dont get close to me! - to anything holding a gun and he should outright disolve anything that is close enough for the Lions Sword to touch. 2: Deathwing get to take their combined load-outs, but the current point cost remains as-is. This makes a elite strike army possible and viable as you can take the heavy firepower and defensive shields you need. It also saves ALOT of people from having mini's that no longer are playable. 3:The removed units are pulled back in full, talonmaster exc. The Dark Angels where known to be a niche legion with a awnser to everything, but that came at a cost. Having premier units on the tabletop is reflected in their points value. It also keeps the unique nature of the Dark Angels intact and keeps people being able to still play models they have allready paid for. I am happy to not be able to take other standard units into battle as a compensation for this like Centurions.
@@skulver To me it makes sense to do either one of two things. Either The Lion gets a rework both model and rulewise so he actually makes the Dark Angels feel and play like Dark Angels or the other way around. The mini's having the statline and equipment options to warrant the points of fielding them at the cost of a weaker Primarch in the field. Right now we have a Primarch that does D1's and what should be unique elite's and troops that either are way overpriced or underpowered for their role. This may sound extreme, I know, but I would sooner have GW do a recall on the Codex and do a propper job and continue in the 9th edition rules untill a propper 10th edition Codex comes out and I feel the same for Blood Angels, Death Guard, Iron Hands and all the others. If I wanted to play a generic codex compliant chapter I would have a force of Ultramarines to trow into the field. But I dont want that, I wanted something else, something different. I wanted the Dark Angels.
I agree with everything you said. I also am not enjoying the absurdity we get for list compositions - I'm not going to talk about meta - but how have we reached a point where the Grandmaster of the Ravenwing (and 'captain' of the company) can't join his Black Knights Command squad, but at the same time you can field 3 of those lorewise unique command squads? This edition has absolutely gutted any theme the Dark Angels had. Sure you can fix most of it using 'legends' datasheets or not fielding things that don't fit thematically - but on the other hand, why then even bother getting this codex for 20-30 bucks? Its a disgrace and I don't care if they end up being on top of the meta because they are no longer feeling like DA. Not to mention the amount of models in my collection that are now legends or totally without rules.
I think 290pts for knights would have been fine if they did what they were supposed to do. But they're not going to. I was hoping Belial, would have been made a little less... Meh. I was hoping the unforgiven taskforce would have been tweaked to be more useful outside of a few scenarios Still, at least the stuff looks epic! 🤷🏼♂️
That's the thing the new models do look SO good I absolutely love all of them! They just really, as you said, don't do what they... LOOK like they should be doing! AP1 on those enormous Inner Circle Companion Swords just baffles me!
No point keeping the landspeeder vengance datasheet if its gonna be that horrible. They should've put it in legends if they were gonna make it unplayable...
The only good things I saw from this codex are the Raven- and Deathwing detachments which are way better than the SM codex versions . Other good thing was the RW command squad being able to be attached to other units . And that's about the good things . Glad to see that they didn't change Azrael . As for the rest , well , it's one big dissapointment . With what I saw , they could have just as well put them in the SM codex with just the special characters as DA flavour .
Well they've overcorrected, 9th edition dark angels where janky.. knights where almost unkillable while hitting like a ton of bricks, dark talon overwatched on 2+ and couldn't be targeted most of the time. But the nerfs weren't necessary this time around DA index wasn't dominating. Inner Circle companions are a huge disappointment. While I'm not super on board with Lion nerfs can't believe you said "shield only grants him a 3++" I don't think anything else has a 3++ in the game
I despise this codex supplement, there was really zero good news in it - nothing got better and as you said, some things are just nonsensical. I don't want to play the normal Space Marine Codex; I'd be happy to have some of it off limits again so we could go back to having our own flavor. Lowering points isn't going to make it feel any better either. For example, Lion didn't need a nerf; I've seen him get melted down in short order a few times to devastating wounds; now he's still an over costed melee-centric character that doesn't melee as well and dies more easily. I don't need Fealty to hit as hard as say the Emperor's sword, but I would like him to get more batteries for the Emperor's Shield. It's just not a good feeling and it's sucked the fun out of this; I certainly have no enthusiasm for the release and didn't even bother trying to get a DW Assault box.
I really enjoyed this video and share your feelings. It feels like death of DA identity. I’ve got a bunch of illegal DWT, I’ve got to go cut off the flails of the unforgiven DWK.
dropping the talon master, then moving the vengence to D1 was enough for me, Posted my marines for sale. no interest in the army now - and for exactly the reason you mentioned. MASSIVE PLASMA!! = Plasma pistol. Etc
I wish DA were better. I still consider my home brew a Successor chapter and plan on getting DA specific units to go with my marines, it just feels bad that those units wont be as usable as i would like them to be. I guess its nice that chapters acn just use the baseline marine rules, but it feels bad i cant lean fully into the DA. Still gonna get all the models i wamt cause they look awesome (the Lion, new knights, and companions specifically) but still
I suspect a new rules designer with competitor background and a grudge against DW worked on this. Agree with the loss of identity. Wrapping my knuckles trying to create a list that isn’t bland or too generic SM with just Azreal as the only DA unit. Shame.
One of my biggest issues is the characters none of them apart from Azrael obviously seem to Synergie with any of our units and most are flat out worse than there generic counter parts and poor Lazaus they should of just let him go instead of saving him with the primaris treatment.
Let's, as a community, go back to 9th edition, but keep the parts of 10 that we like. Kind of like "hey Uno, thanks for the cards, we'll take the rules from here."
Unfortunaly your absolutly right on everything. Unless there is a massive errata which means if there is why didnt the book get recalled before being outhere. This isnt going to sell more models its going to do the reverse.ive managed to split the box wih someone so not paid full whack and i do still want the companions if not just for painting but i know have to reconfigure alot of my models before getting close to where i was before. What a dissapointment. It also shows for my mate who plays wolves, all his custom terminator are going to be useless when his codex comes out too
I think we'll see some significant points drops on a few things, and then that'll be the 'fix' at least until a balance dataslate down the line in Summer or Autumn that might try to fix a few things (maybe the 2D on Fealty, and perhaps some jank in the Datasheets like letting the Deathwing Sgt actually swap his Power Sword for something else!)
GW took the heart out of what made me want to start a Dark Angles army, my solution buy a ninth edition Codex and play for fun. I like the new sculpts a lot, but the rules suck. I am sad that GW seems to definitely plan on killing off firstborn Marine models. I grew up with the classic Rhino and Tactical Squads. I like the Primaris Marines but don't agree that they should completely replace the iconic models.
ABSOLUTELY AGREE! Why would I take a Vengeance now when I could get WAY more output from a Thunderstrike. Also removing the Talon Master (understand the model availbility thing) but Talon Masters were key characters for the Ravenwing, so now we only have Sammael, and while good, is VERY restricting in diversity of unit choices. So we get awesome new Knight models even though the previous Knight models were some of the best sculpted troop units, and we get no new characters or units where it is deperately needed. The NERF to everything make it very hard to make even a middling Deathwing or Ravenwing army work at all. The points significantly reduce the number of fieldable units so it is very difficult to get primaries or secondaries, their lack of punch stops them being able to take down opponents core units so we get swamped, and the lack of unit diversity reduces their adaptability and usefullness. 40K is fun because of the range and choices, Dark Angels have lost all of that! So the end is we have most Dark Angels players taking Gladius, and now digging more into the SM Codex than previously! WHY GW WHY!!! My hope is GW have a bunch of stuff in the wings waiting to come out this year to build on the codex....but surely GW would have made those available now with the codex release to make it enticing!!
The really sad thing about the AP, is that DWK and companions are more viable with Gladius, for the availability of strats that improve AP.. These rules should makes us want to run the new squads with our new detachments, but there are just no synergies and no way to make up for their weaknesses.. Gladius just feels better for these squads.
Yep it is sad when the main marine book just works out being better in almost every way for your Army, you basically get incentivised to just bring 'generic green marines' rather than actually feeling like a Dark Angels army
The damage output on the DWK is the worst thing about them. Yes they're an anvil for your hammer and anvil deathwing greenwing force, with hellblasters doing the killing. But it just feels so lame them having no teeth, they will die to more or less any meta melee unit in a protracted fight because they just don't have any damage output.
Sadly, I'm willing to be kind of a punk here; I can derive a little joy from this codex being a little less. I've never totally appreciated that the Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves just get their own magical book, with umpteen extra options, while others just have to be held back bu being constrained within their codex. If I were a White Scars player, I'd be pissed, because their bikes detachment is bad, and that's how they are supposed to play. Meanwhile, Blood Angels will get basically all the good things from SM, plus extra detachments, unique options (even Grey Knights don't get psyker dreads?), and more. On the other hand, I admit that this is purely me being petty, and it does seem odd for the Dark Angels to have some of these choices made. Some of it is expected, and I'm not a fan; I'm not fond of the limits many squads now get on war gear. I LOVE that picks are free, but some of the forced constraints, whether because they believe people don't still have bitz boxes, and the kit only brings one, or something, is dumb.
At least your Grandfather Nurgle is a happy and enigmatic fellow and your deaths are also a furtherance to his cause. We awnser to the GW throne and I would swear with this new Codex that the Emperor is more forgiving chum then the current rule makers are!
Your comments on knights are almost exactly how I feel about wulfen....right now they're just improved assault intercessors.....they're supposed to be the best hand to hand unit in the hand to hand chapter
Oof yeah Wulfen are a bit tragic at the moment aren't they! I would say I hope they improve in the SW Codex but... now I'm not sure that's very likely!!
This is the exact problem with this codex. For me, as an DA player of 25 years, these changes doesn't feel proper for Dark Angels. As you mentioned with the weapons of the Knights, Companions and the Lion, I think the same about the weapons of the other charakters.
The game had fundamental issues and on top of that the codex releases are disgusting and rules need to be online and codexes should be more fluff and hobby oriented, and on top of that the painstaking transition from old models to the newer models and certain factions being neglected. Im a GW superfan but its tragic how they manage this stuff.
One of the first things I did when I got the new terminators was turn one into a Deathwing Strike master so it really sucks that they just took them out of the game. Guess I'll use him as a pimped out Sarge instead.
You can use him as a captain since in this edition you can field 3 of them as GW doesn't give crap about the lore anyhow. And the Strikemasters are above the Deathwing Knights in lore, who get often chosen as the next company masters - so it fits. If I wouldn't go with legends anyhow that's the approach I would take.
I quit chaos and Tau for similiar reasons. Its not about being good or bad its about the feel of the army and units. She they change fundamentally the units away from the lore and squad options you destroy who they actually are. Its like psychological genocide or isentity destruction or gaslighting. That happened in tenth for me so i went for two different armies..
I know having an army that can perform well is fairly mandatory, but for me the lore and feel and identity of any Army is more important than that, I want a balanced game obviously but I just wish it didn't so often have to come at the expense of making armies feel more 'generic' and less fun to play :(
I think the most disappointing thing was the lack of availability of the terminators box. I wanted to support the official release, but clearly they don't wnat my money, they'd rather the scalpers get it. (which thery won't because feeding the scalpers only worsens this but I digress) They would make enough kits for everyone if that wasn't the case! I have a life/job/obligations, I can't be sure to be online at X o'clock to grab a kit in the 5-10--20 minutes they are available!
As a Ravenwing player, losing the Talonmaster (basically THE lieutenant of Ravenwing) has made some of my the models I'm most proud of obsolete with no way to proxy them. The Ravenwing command squad being able to join Black knights was a welcome change. The Land Speeder vengeance nerf was GW telling Dark Angels players not to buy it anymore. The detachment for Ravenwing is garbage and I'll just use stormlance with Black knights. Outriders becoming Troops is nice but are still garbage for the cost. Overall, until Flyers/land speeders/Outriders get cost change or rules change, I don't think I'm playing Ravenwing. same goes for Deathwing
Buff back the Lion's shield man. At least make it a -1 to hit if not wound. Buff his sword back as well. Give inner circle companions 4+ invulnerable. Buff black knight movement and AP. At least give deathwing knights more AP or attacks. They are elite of the deathwing.
Win rate below 50% and they nerf badly by GW, not very nice, deathwing indentity gone, talon master gone, dont feel playing Dark angel anymore and luck for GW I cant cancel my pre order so this would be the last minist buying DA theme for my main army
I totally agree. I don't care if they make the nerfed units even half the points costs. What matters is that their abilities match their lore, legend and even just common sense from looking at the models and art. Let elite things be truly elite and make Dark Angels feel like Dark Angles and not just some bland stats without imagination on pretty new minis.
I am a new player of Dark Angels. When Deathwing Assualt pack released, I was excited and pre ordered it, but the codex rules made me disappointed…my first army just like a piece of shxt! I can’t understand why GW did that terrible mistake? They hate Lion el’ Johnson and every sons of lion?Ah…fxck that, maybe I will cancel my Deathwing Assualt pack and change my army to chaos…
I was excited to finally get into playing the game in 10th edition, but with the spirit that GW is bringing to it I am just going to paint my guys and enjoy them as collectors pieces. It’s sad because I was excited, but I don’t really have the time anyway so it is for the best.
You're basically correct. I started playing at the beginning of 5th with Dark Angels and have been at it ever since. GW could reintroduce the things we've lost over time but it's super lame they've made the changes you talk about.
This sums up a lot of my thoughts on the codex. A good points set up could make dark angels GOOD or COMPETITIVE (although if I'm honest I doubt the will), but even a super low points cost won't make them FUN.
This seems to be a common theme for all the new codex's, the homogenising of units with all of a factions flavour and individuality being beaten out with the bland stick!
I was watching a match last night of DAs vs CSM. Lion went in fresh vs a Daemon Prince and hit him with everything he had. The daemon tanked the hits and proceeded to one-shot lion in the biggest dice betrayal ive seen in a long time. There was the Lion of Caliban; a so called melee focused beast designed to take on monsters and he got utterly annihilated by one. I don't care if hes only 300 points now, he has neither the stats nor rules to withstand the threats that he draws as a melee character. His buffs are meh, his shooting is token at best but he just cant kill the enemies hes supposed to. I pray the next round of rules revisions this summer fixes him, he's embarrassingly underpowered.
Lion got shitted canned from being overcosted and pointless to now soft and weak while also over costed and crap… but the thing that really makes me mad is what they have done to the deathwing not having th/ss guys with the lads with the chainfists and the missle launchers… it just pissed me right the fuck off… cause there was no reason for that, it did not need to happen.. and it is counter lore and lames out the frigen best terminators the imperium can field… garbage rules…
True, and I sincerely hope they will, it's just GW typically tends to fix things with points, at least first,so I don't think there'll be any significant amendments to the rules for quite a while, and whilst dropping points will make some of these Units 'better' in terms of competitive strength, I still think they just feel akward statswise no matter what they're costed at, which is my big issue with this book :(
10th edition in general has just been disappointing so far. Changing points costs might make units more competitive, but the core mechanics and design philosophy are both so boring. The game used to be so much more fun to actually play; I think from 7th edition onward was where the game really fell off. I was wishing beyond all hope that 10th edition would end up being a remaster of 5th edition lol a man can dream
Im happy thats not another power-creep, deathwing termies had their shine time on 9th edition woth perma-transhuman. Looking On this codex i thonk ppl will Find cool builds.
1) Inner Circle Companions + Azrael = WOW! 2) The Deathwing Knights, on the other hand, are very meh 3) Land Speeder Vengeance sucks 4) Lion'el Johnson is nerfed but is still a strong character imho 5) Deathwing Terminators suck 6) Greenwing sucks 6) Ravenwing stuff is good for me The codex is poor at first sight (in comparison to the others).
On the plus side the new models are absolutely banging but i am pissed as heck about all the shit rules these incredible new models got… oh we can have a plasma cannon termie who can blow himself up and it way worse than the much safer cyclone missile launcher guy that we are all gunna take… the inner circle companions sucking hurts my soul cause all those lads should really be lore wise the oldest Marines in the imperium on account of them all being the fallen from calliban and that should come with some incredible rules up scaling for them but nah we got no invuln and a wiffle bat… look at the black templars and sword brethern… these guys should be like that squad but on acid… most of our new character s suck… asmodai sucks, laz sucks, belial sucks, lion sucks, Azreal is really really good and Ezekiel is really kinda niche, Sammuel is kinda great… but all the rules in the book kinda force you to run raven wing to be competitive… i like the raven wing command squad that’s great, black knights are still great, storm speeders with that detachment rules will be great but outriders still more or less suck and they are your core of this… which is kinda lame…
I hate it. I feel utterly robbed by GW not only as a dark angels player but of my money! The box set and the models yet to be released aren’t worth buying and my army it utterly pointless playing. About the lion a good comparison is the necron void dragon 12W 4+ invun 5+FNP and then halves the incoming damage and the sweep is S12 AP-3 and DM D6+2 but still same point value as the lion go figure
My thoughts... i never enjoyed playing with objectives.. deathmatch is just more fun.. belial went from a mini lion to a.. guy in armor... the lion... now i feel i have to keep him behind the line instead of leading it.... lion is 350 now knights are back to 235 but we are still waiting for the official post codex points..i just... eh started an imperial knights army... why is the fun gone... deathwing Terminators not being able to mix n match...thats a deathblow, Why take them at all?
Lets face it its better to be a collector than a player especially a competetive one. I buy models because I love the DA chapter, and dont care about the rules, if Im going to play I will just for fun. We have to stop for a second and think.. people think ! This is a sbuisness, they arent game devs, they dont care but still is weird that they made this codex so lame, when they always do the first run a op one to sell models. I am dissapointed in the revamp, lazy af, no new RW, even Ezekiel didnt get new model lol , where BT got whole army refreshed. Pisses me off that they cut many nice things that could be a nice kitbash project for those who have old and new sets and we got just one new unit...but still I understand, its all about the end of old SM models, and to have many more editions of the codex open for some new models to keep it fresh.
This is the *_Best_* we get from the *_"Best Wargames/Model company in THE 🌎 world🌍."*_. (GW has got reacee 🐒🐵🐒's working for them, all the "Talent & Creatives" have rightly jumped 🚢 ship & are now making their own better games ☺️🎯)
What are your thoughts on the new Dark Angels Codex? Is it ok or are you disappointed by it?
I just started a DA army and i'm instantly going back to finish my Death Korp of Krieg instead. 😂 Not because the rules are bad but because everything i found cool is now super uncool and unsatisfying. (My army project was going to be focused around the Lion and Deathwing knights+terminators)
Nothing got better. Well, one character did, barely, with an increase in their melee profile. EVERYTHING ELSE got worse. 'Disappointment' doesn't cover it.
This has been how I have been feeling as Blood angels player, Sang Guard have the same pains as Deathwing knights do now :(((( it sucks like they only way to fix it would be to rewrite the datasheet, points doesn't fix the problems since they are just underwhelming for elite units. like if they had lance baked in for swords, then we could be doing well.
It just has nothing to be excited for, they diminished it as you said in video.
If yall are that unhappy with the rules then cancel your pre orders for desthwing assault and the codex. They won't change unless they lose money
In summary, Games Workshop has messed with our terminators, our plasma, and our primark.... and completely destroyed the hero fantasy of our army
Maybe not completely destroyed but reduced
its crazy how I’d rather have not gotten a codex or new models for three years instead of having my army of 15 years being gutted at every level of flavor and character.
As a dark angels player, who just finished my army last week, I am sick to my stomach. I've spent so much time, energy and money, for what feels like nothing at all now. DA got all their premier units gutted, and their sould sucked out. The lion, who would absolutely smash G man, who stood toe to toe with angron, who is one of the top 3 fighting primarchs has a one damage weapon? GW has to be careful. They are catering way to much to the hyper competitive side of the hobby now, forgetting where the game came from, and that ultimately it is supposed to be fun. Gone are the days of fluffy lore styled units, where the factions had identity.. gone are the days when the games were actually fun and your rules were super unique to your chapter. I remember when u could cast a spell and blow yourself up before. Or a chaos lord could turn himself into a spawn, or ascend to a demon prince.. Now that was 40k. All gone in the favor of "streamlined rules", and "balance". Wow
I still have fond memories of the scatter dice. Fumble a grenade and it could land in your own lap 🤣
Looks like they want all space marines to be Ultramarines. But they will graciously allow you to play another chapter by painting the models a different color. They will even support the illusion of free choice by giving us cool characters, and then slowly nerfing them out of existence. We will all be brought into compliance, or else.
I started in 9th and it was tough. Needing 3 new books to get all your rules and extra rules. Stratagems were to overwhelming. But now i wish it would be just like then. The relic bearers, inexorable advance for DG, detachments for your plague company... It was so fluffy. They absolutly fucked death guard aswell. I have been painting them for 5 years now. Hope that they will go back to old days.
I feel you brother , I have worked hard and put a lot of money into my Deathwing and now half of what I have built can just go in the bin.
Nothing but a god dam cash grab by GW, they are absolute scum with no regard for the players that pay their wages.
To be honest I dont even think that there is a point to carrying on with the hobby anymore, all they will do is continue to change how you need to build your army to keep the money rolling in.
This codex is just a taste of what is to come for every faction in the game, get ready to have every army changed so you have to keep buying new models for no other reason than share holders greed greed.
The soul has been ripped out of this chapter in such a way that is nothing more than an insult. and the way they have released the the codex just confirms that.
A £135 to find out that your chapter of choice has been butchered is nothing more than a slap in the face to everyone in the community, because this is going to happen to everyone across all factions.
My advice would be to just play 10th edition rules but with 9th edition codex, then you might still have some fun with the hobby.
Absolutely agreed, the soul has been sucked out from so much of the datasheets in this book, and 100% the best example imo is the deathwing terminators, that mixing and matching was never really an aspect that made Deathwing OP, or super strong comparatively, but it added SO much for such a small little change, just seeing a shooty squad with a TH/SS or Lightning Claw dude, or a cyclone in a full TH/SS squad just... made them LOOK more exciting to use
Warhammer player since 2 Edition:
I have seen many ups and downs as the Codex Dark Angels has evolved.
The wide range of models we had:
- Individual company veterans - I have 30 of these all in robes that cover everything from melee to hard ranged combat = no longer usable in this way - GW still sell these
- interrogator chaplain - I love this particularly fierce priest, these have made a lot of difference from a lore point of view = should also no longer be usable = GW still sells these
- Talonmaster - I have two of these, one a combination of Techmarine, Swordmaster, Ravenwing Pilot and Scout showing a dynamic model of how marines work together as hunters, in the last editions this model was the leader of the hunt! = retired by GW
- DW Command Squad - how can you throw away such a brilliant idea that emphasizes the special character of the Deathwing? = GW still sells these
- DW Strikemaster - never used but still important in my opinion
What is left that belongs purely to Dark Angels, 2 the two landspeeders, 2 the two fliers, RW Black Knights and the new edition of the DW Knights as well as the new companions - heroes excluded
I say that in the next edition everything except the heroes will have been cut out.
The game has no value for me anymore, the focus on lack of flexibility, reduction of units that can do something right, as well as the removal of DA only units gives me the feeling that I no longer feel Space Marines like a great fighting game with epic battles and heroes who give everything but rather like a soulless set of rules that only takes math into account and that more bad than right.
It really feels like someone at GW took the communities' complaints about Supplement Chapters having access to the core detachments and decided to "solve" it by making everything unique about the DA bad. Feels terrible to be forced to shelve unique units in favor of playing green Space Marines.
Or just like all this „Dark Angels fans who always liked the legion“ want just better Space Marines. But why should Dark Angels stronger??? Can they field the best Space Marines Termis? Yes! Can the field good bikers? Yes…so why are you complaining? You got 9 detachments to choose from with different units…
@@denniskeler8068But you payed a premium for those units. Now we still pay a premium but get shafted because the units are simply not worth the points they are charging. Part of the fun of playing with divergent chapters is the flavour. Now the flavour is gone. Gabriel Seth summed it up perfectly and it seems as though GW are doing their damnedest to turn everything in to Ultramarines.
@denniskeler8068 it's not about being better, it's about being different. I don't want my DA to feel like Iron Hands that I painted green. I can't run the "meta" Ultramarines list because I don't have their characters. I have the characters from the legion I like, and I'd like to be able to use them without having to sacrifice strength. I don't want to proxy my Lion as Gulliman or Belial as Calgar just to win games. I want my models to not be bad.
@@denniskeler8068 as I said I really don't care much at all about overall 'power', I don't play in any form of competitive way 90% of the time, I just want units that FEEL fun, and feel like they should based on their lore and design, and I feel like GW massively dropped the ball in that regard across pretty much all parts of the Codex. I'm not angry because of the power of it, I'm just sad because as a book it feels less fun to play
@@denniskeler8068 what best terminator? What best bike? Why borther diffrent codex if GW trying to make all space marine become space marine, must well paint all DW termi to green, the soul of Dark angel is gone what i can tell you
The model designers did a bang up job but the rules team completely fumbled it. This is gonna need a correction, a really sizable one. The question is how long are we gonna have to wait for it? I hope the negative buzz online will be a powerful motivator for them, much like we saw with the ridiculous Votaan codex last edition.
They don't care. Nothing will change this is it
@@retrorevivalsuperturbo9428 exactly this, GW are much much better at points changes now, but I feel like for this Codex whilst a points adjustment would make the book 'stronger', it certainly won't make it more fun or thematic, that will require some more substantial redesigns and rewrites which I don't think GW will do anytime soon!
Absolutely, artwork, models, creative design, all brilliant. I just wish the datasheets and rules would match them! :D
They fucked up the Lion.
It's a bold strategy to sell models. Instead of new codex power creep, the seem to have decided to make the new cool models worse and more expensive than the regular marine options already out there. Not sure if its gonna work out for them sales wise.
Nobody wants to get nerfed in their codex. As a Death Guard player, when the index came out early last year I felt gut kicked.
True, and worse part is that in 2 to 3 books we will start to get codex creep books. Condolances to all DW/RW players.
@@piotrjeske4599 Yep, and ironically, DG is probably going to be one of the last codexes to come out, meaning less time with it before the next edition while having to compete with all the power creep up til that point. I doubt we'll be "balanced", probably over or under powered.
As a Black Templars player with a DA successor army, I can't say I was surprised DA were nerfed like this. BT were nerfed when they had their refresh too. Of their 6 special units, 7 if you want to count the Land Raider Crusader, all but 2 were pointless.
Helbrecht and PCS were the only two units worth taking. PSB couldn't compete with BGV, Grimaldus could give up 12 VP if an opponent was smart and used the "assassinate" secondary, the Emperor's Champion was good for a week before Custards got their own version the following month which was straight better than the EC in every way, and because everyone became Primaris (except, oddly enough, the First Born Crusader Squad stuck around), the LRC was worthless because it couldn't transport Primaris.
So, DA getting nerfed wasn't a surprise, although the nerf being as hard as it is, was. James Workshop is apparently handing out nerfs to all codex divergent Marine factions that get a refresh. Blood Angels, I would prepare for the screwing GW might hand you when your refresh happens
I don't know much about BT (which is odd as they also fit that Knightly/Templar theme that I love the DA for!) but that is a real shame!
Space Wolves player here,
As somebody who has played into this army hundreds of times and lost hundreds of times to it by way of my best buddy playing this faction. I am deeply saddened by the sheer state of unwarranted nerfs this army is taking. the flavour of the faction is completely eroded beyond repair... its an insult to any 40K fan, cause it shows that in one swift motion, they can just gut you of any playability with any faction. talking about my lads too, I know this is coming my way too, and my excitement for my codex is non existent now.
Also as a Space Wolves player looking at what they’ve done doesn’t put much hope when they do a refresh for the Wolves
Honestly was about to drop close to $2K on building this army as my very first 40K army but all of the unnessesary nerfs to the entire army and removal of key forces just made me want to keep my money. Whoever at GW is responsible for these decisions to just nerf and remove things for DA for apparantely zero reason should be either demoted or put on a different project. These hits were a solution in search of a problem that does not exist.
The rules can change in time
If this was your army of choice shouldn't prevent you from still having a casual game rule of cool is always better than trying to play 100% competitive with any army I was in the same boat when they took the ork speed waagh out but dont let rules discourage you from playing what you like you can still figure out a play style that suits the unit and what other units are you running with
@@treymartinez7398 I agree!
Let me you something that I just realized recently. They don’t playtest their game at all 😂
@@treymartinez7398Ppl rarely drop $2k on a brandnew army just for casual games.
Bruh with shield stats like that no wonder Big E got smoked hard by Horus and ended up on the golden toilet...
😅😅
Took the words right out of my mouth. The problem is the vibes and suspension of disbelief. The new Companions having neither an invuln nor a 2+ save is nuts to me. How does that make any sense from the lore or game perspective?
Also, the deathwing plasma cannon should absolutely be damage 2/3. You shouldnt be more likely to kill yourself rather than the enemy youre shooting.
Such a shame! Dark Angels were my first faction back in 3rd Edition. Last year I came back to 40K, started collecting Grey Knights and Blood Angels and was thinking about going back to the Dark Angels as well. But not if they don't change these rules/profiles and bring back so many lost units.
And the worst thing is I am now REALLY concerned about my Grey Knights and Blood Angels...
I'm concerned for the Blood Angels too. They've had a rough couple of years and the DA definitely doesn't inspire confidence.
@@RSBurgener I'm just worried it feels like a push to an overall just more 'generalised' style of Space Marine, and for me half my love for the marines is their uniqueness and differences and it'll be such a shame if BA, SW etc. also get some of their iconic Units just gutted too
@@TheSixMachine I don't know what motivates this push to "streamline" the game on the part of GW. Really it amounts to making it more generic. Yes, get rid of the Hunter and the Stalker. Fine, don't let us use the Kratos tank in 40k. But now they're gutting the Deathwing Command Squad and the Strikemaster? Are they just trying to make this stuff cheaper to produce for themselves? They can't believe this is the way we want it. They learned this lesson with the Chaos Lord with Jump Pack. We don't like having less than we started out with!
The lion weapon change seems really odd, I’d think that reducing the amount of attacks on the sweep would make more sense than reducing damage
Yeah it's just (imo) the LEAST sensible way of 'nerfing' the sword if you think it's OP, drop the number of attacks if you want, but it SHOULD be 2D, because it SHOULD be something that's easily killing a marine in 1 blow, at least in my head the 1D massively detracts from my 'lore' idea of the Lion
@@TheSixMachine maybe GWs logic is trying to bring his sweep profile in line with mortarion or Magnus who both have 1D sweep profiles but it doesn’t fit the Lions lore of being a master swordsman with basically excalibur. Both the defensive and offensive nerfs don’t make sense on top of each other. I think the shield nerf won’t be as bad if they didn’t touch his damage or the other way around.
Started building a DA army… this was such a kick in the nuts I can’t keep painting them, looking at something else, GW getting rid of so many deathwing characters seems like they’re phasing them out
As a casual player that is just starting his DA army, I was sooo excited for the new models and codex. Now, unless they fix things to bring back the flavor I was looking forward to, I may just stick to the smurfs.
What „flavor“ are you looking for? Just stronger Marines? Nice flavor 👌
@denniskeler8068 Nah, not stronger. I love the look of the various wings of the DA. The whole secrets within secrets within secrets thing appeals to me. The synergies between the units and characters, etc. The new Inner Circle Companions are a case in point. Gorgeous models, and being risen, guarding the inner circle was cool as hell. Now, they are slightly worse, more expensive bladeguard. there is no flavor there.
@@jeffmartin4472 Everybody who played the 10th for the last month knows that the points in the books arent true…and yes i don’t understand that this one unit is disappointing. But the rest??? No!
Points can be adjusted upwards or downwards. That is what it is. As things stand, it appears the Emperor's shield got turned off, and we need to rename Fealty to Pillow. The Deathwing Kinghts seem to have been demoted to Deathwing Squires. The Vengance has become a floating plasma pistol battery. The Inner Circle Companions are basically an understrength assault marine squad.
Feels just like Votann. Did they eventually get good by making everything cheaper? Yes. Did they lose a lot of the fun to just become a point-effective mathhammer? Also yes. Armies should feel fun and unique, and point drops don't do that. Point drops just make you buy more models. But I mean... GW.
Exactly right on the points front, I KNOW they could easily make this Codex S++++ tier with points drops, that still won't make using your 18 10ppm inner circle vets and 15 20ppm deathknight knights feel... WEIRD and unfluffy with their -1ap and just... rather odd rules
To say I'm disappointed is an understatement. More like... I'm F***ing pissed off about this. Does anyone working on the gameplay layout actually play the game??? And they, I hope will fix this in the not too distant future. But not holding my breath. F.F.S!
Being a Terminator fan, I totally feel disappointed! It's a real letdown. I was so hyped about building a Deathwing-only army, with 1 or 2 massive 10-man squad of Deathwing Knights central players.
But they capped them at 5, nerfed the mace, and made the swords like sergeant Intercessors (except for the attacks and BS). I would pay the crazy 290 points for the Knights if they hit hard, endure most attacks and taken as 10 man squad. It's not just about the points; it just feels out of sync with the theme of knights, Lion and the companions.
Yep 100% well said, there's just a lot in this book that just feels out of sync!
thx for the vid, you're putting it to the point: This codex killed the spirit from the Dark Angels....
Thanks, appreciate that. And yeah kinda just feels like a bit of a gut punch, as I said I really don't give two hoots about the overall 'power' in terms of competitive/tournaments, I just want the Units to play like they look like they should from a model/lore/design standpoint, and right now a load of them just really don't!
I’m disappointed, I only play DA. The lion is awful point wise. Talon master gone. Only thing that feels better is ravenwing
Call me a Fallen but, i'd almost think Matt Ward did this codex, what warpdust where they snorting when they wrote this?!
@@skulver I did not do a direct comparison to the Ultramarines but, the Ultramarines lost against the Tyranids in the Leviathan campaign. How well do you think the Dark Angels will fare..?
@@skulver I agree with you on most bases.
Here is just my 2 cents.
1: Return the Lion's Sword, the massive 2h brother-beat-down-stick Johnson used to clobber Conrad and give Russ quite a scar. Dump the shield ( He never had one anyway ) to give him the D2 back on his melee arch. Give the sword some really good aura buffs to compensate for the loss of the shield, improve his aura and increase the point cost to 395. Make him a close range monster. He should scream - Dont get close to me! - to anything holding a gun and he should outright disolve anything that is close enough for the Lions Sword to touch.
2: Deathwing get to take their combined load-outs, but the current point cost remains as-is. This makes a elite strike army possible and viable as you can take the heavy firepower and defensive shields you need. It also saves ALOT of people from having mini's that no longer are playable.
3:The removed units are pulled back in full, talonmaster exc. The Dark Angels where known to be a niche legion with a awnser to everything, but that came at a cost. Having premier units on the tabletop is reflected in their points value. It also keeps the unique nature of the Dark Angels intact and keeps people being able to still play models they have allready paid for. I am happy to not be able to take other standard units into battle as a compensation for this like Centurions.
@@skulver To me it makes sense to do either one of two things. Either The Lion gets a rework both model and rulewise so he actually makes the Dark Angels feel and play like Dark Angels or the other way around. The mini's having the statline and equipment options to warrant the points of fielding them at the cost of a weaker Primarch in the field. Right now we have a Primarch that does D1's and what should be unique elite's and troops that either are way overpriced or underpowered for their role.
This may sound extreme, I know, but I would sooner have GW do a recall on the Codex and do a propper job and continue in the 9th edition rules untill a propper 10th edition Codex comes out and I feel the same for Blood Angels, Death Guard, Iron Hands and all the others.
If I wanted to play a generic codex compliant chapter I would have a force of Ultramarines to trow into the field. But I dont want that, I wanted something else, something different.
I wanted the Dark Angels.
I agree with everything you said. I also am not enjoying the absurdity we get for list compositions - I'm not going to talk about meta - but how have we reached a point where the Grandmaster of the Ravenwing (and 'captain' of the company) can't join his Black Knights Command squad, but at the same time you can field 3 of those lorewise unique command squads?
This edition has absolutely gutted any theme the Dark Angels had. Sure you can fix most of it using 'legends' datasheets or not fielding things that don't fit thematically - but on the other hand, why then even bother getting this codex for 20-30 bucks? Its a disgrace and I don't care if they end up being on top of the meta because they are no longer feeling like DA. Not to mention the amount of models in my collection that are now legends or totally without rules.
I started DA in 9th. Half my collection is bunk without me making a lot more purchases.
I'm so sorry to hear that, that's so frustrating and disappointing! :(
I think 290pts for knights would have been fine if they did what they were supposed to do. But they're not going to. I was hoping Belial, would have been made a little less... Meh. I was hoping the unforgiven taskforce would have been tweaked to be more useful outside of a few scenarios
Still, at least the stuff looks epic! 🤷🏼♂️
That's the thing the new models do look SO good I absolutely love all of them! They just really, as you said, don't do what they... LOOK like they should be doing! AP1 on those enormous Inner Circle Companion Swords just baffles me!
No point keeping the landspeeder vengance datasheet if its gonna be that horrible. They should've put it in legends if they were gonna make it unplayable...
Amazing models! DOGS**T RULES!
The only good things I saw from this codex are the Raven- and Deathwing detachments which are way better than the SM codex versions . Other good thing was the RW command squad being able to be attached to other units . And that's about the good things . Glad to see that they didn't change Azrael . As for the rest , well , it's one big dissapointment . With what I saw , they could have just as well put them in the SM codex with just the special characters as DA flavour .
Well they've overcorrected, 9th edition dark angels where janky..
knights where almost unkillable while hitting like a ton of bricks, dark talon overwatched on 2+ and couldn't be targeted most of the time.
But the nerfs weren't necessary this time around DA index wasn't dominating. Inner Circle companions are a huge disappointment.
While I'm not super on board with Lion nerfs can't believe you said "shield only grants him a 3++" I don't think anything else has a 3++ in the game
I despise this codex supplement, there was really zero good news in it - nothing got better and as you said, some things are just nonsensical. I don't want to play the normal Space Marine Codex; I'd be happy to have some of it off limits again so we could go back to having our own flavor. Lowering points isn't going to make it feel any better either. For example, Lion didn't need a nerf; I've seen him get melted down in short order a few times to devastating wounds; now he's still an over costed melee-centric character that doesn't melee as well and dies more easily. I don't need Fealty to hit as hard as say the Emperor's sword, but I would like him to get more batteries for the Emperor's Shield. It's just not a good feeling and it's sucked the fun out of this; I certainly have no enthusiasm for the release and didn't even bother trying to get a DW Assault box.
I really enjoyed this video and share your feelings. It feels like death of DA identity. I’ve got a bunch of illegal DWT, I’ve got to go cut off the flails of the unforgiven DWK.
Thanks I appreciate that, and sorry it coldn't be a slightly more upbeat video! Haha
I’m glad I downloaded the index cards. I and my friends will be using them instead. No need to waste money on junk- which is what this codex is
dropping the talon master, then moving the vengence to D1 was enough for me, Posted my marines for sale. no interest in the army now - and for exactly the reason you mentioned. MASSIVE PLASMA!! = Plasma pistol. Etc
I wish DA were better. I still consider my home brew a Successor chapter and plan on getting DA specific units to go with my marines, it just feels bad that those units wont be as usable as i would like them to be. I guess its nice that chapters acn just use the baseline marine rules, but it feels bad i cant lean fully into the DA.
Still gonna get all the models i wamt cause they look awesome (the Lion, new knights, and companions specifically) but still
10th edition sucks ass in every conceivable way.
I suspect a new rules designer with competitor background and a grudge against DW worked on this.
Agree with the loss of identity. Wrapping my knuckles trying to create a list that isn’t bland or too generic SM with just Azreal as the only DA unit. Shame.
One of my biggest issues is the characters none of them apart from Azrael obviously seem to Synergie with any of our units and most are flat out worse than there generic counter parts and poor Lazaus they should of just let him go instead of saving him with the primaris treatment.
Let's, as a community, go back to 9th edition, but keep the parts of 10 that we like. Kind of like "hey Uno, thanks for the cards, we'll take the rules from here."
Unfortunaly your absolutly right on everything. Unless there is a massive errata which means if there is why didnt the book get recalled before being outhere. This isnt going to sell more models its going to do the reverse.ive managed to split the box wih someone so not paid full whack and i do still want the companions if not just for painting but i know have to reconfigure alot of my models before getting close to where i was before. What a dissapointment. It also shows for my mate who plays wolves, all his custom terminator are going to be useless when his codex comes out too
I think we'll see some significant points drops on a few things, and then that'll be the 'fix' at least until a balance dataslate down the line in Summer or Autumn that might try to fix a few things (maybe the 2D on Fealty, and perhaps some jank in the Datasheets like letting the Deathwing Sgt actually swap his Power Sword for something else!)
GW took the heart out of what made me want to start a Dark Angles army, my solution buy a ninth edition Codex and play for fun. I like the new sculpts a lot, but the rules suck. I am sad that GW seems to definitely plan on killing off firstborn Marine models. I grew up with the classic Rhino and Tactical Squads. I like the Primaris Marines but don't agree that they should completely replace the iconic models.
ABSOLUTELY AGREE! Why would I take a Vengeance now when I could get WAY more output from a Thunderstrike. Also removing the Talon Master (understand the model availbility thing) but Talon Masters were key characters for the Ravenwing, so now we only have Sammael, and while good, is VERY restricting in diversity of unit choices. So we get awesome new Knight models even though the previous Knight models were some of the best sculpted troop units, and we get no new characters or units where it is deperately needed. The NERF to everything make it very hard to make even a middling Deathwing or Ravenwing army work at all. The points significantly reduce the number of fieldable units so it is very difficult to get primaries or secondaries, their lack of punch stops them being able to take down opponents core units so we get swamped, and the lack of unit diversity reduces their adaptability and usefullness. 40K is fun because of the range and choices, Dark Angels have lost all of that! So the end is we have most Dark Angels players taking Gladius, and now digging more into the SM Codex than previously! WHY GW WHY!!! My hope is GW have a bunch of stuff in the wings waiting to come out this year to build on the codex....but surely GW would have made those available now with the codex release to make it enticing!!
The really sad thing about the AP, is that DWK and companions are more viable with Gladius, for the availability of strats that improve AP..
These rules should makes us want to run the new squads with our new detachments, but there are just no synergies and no way to make up for their weaknesses.. Gladius just feels better for these squads.
Yep it is sad when the main marine book just works out being better in almost every way for your Army, you basically get incentivised to just bring 'generic green marines' rather than actually feeling like a Dark Angels army
I'm not a competitive gamer but this edition is ass, it feels like a boardgame it lacks customizability and immersion
The damage output on the DWK is the worst thing about them.
Yes they're an anvil for your hammer and anvil deathwing greenwing force, with hellblasters doing the killing. But it just feels so lame them having no teeth, they will die to more or less any meta melee unit in a protracted fight because they just don't have any damage output.
Sadly, I'm willing to be kind of a punk here; I can derive a little joy from this codex being a little less. I've never totally appreciated that the Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves just get their own magical book, with umpteen extra options, while others just have to be held back bu being constrained within their codex. If I were a White Scars player, I'd be pissed, because their bikes detachment is bad, and that's how they are supposed to play. Meanwhile, Blood Angels will get basically all the good things from SM, plus extra detachments, unique options (even Grey Knights don't get psyker dreads?), and more. On the other hand, I admit that this is purely me being petty, and it does seem odd for the Dark Angels to have some of these choices made. Some of it is expected, and I'm not a fan; I'm not fond of the limits many squads now get on war gear. I LOVE that picks are free, but some of the forced constraints, whether because they believe people don't still have bitz boxes, and the kit only brings one, or something, is dumb.
Dark Angels were made boring just like in 8th. Why would you bring back the Lion back and make the first weak?
Until GW's profits are impacted by the actions of the consumer, they'll continue to print money and do whatever the hell they want.
As a Death guard main.. welcome to club of wimpy 1 dmg sweeping primarchs.. and my dude has a 15 foot scythe.... Feelsbadman
At least your Grandfather Nurgle is a happy and enigmatic fellow and your deaths are also a furtherance to his cause. We awnser to the GW throne and I would swear with this new Codex that the Emperor is more forgiving chum then the current rule makers are!
I feel for you, on the plus side at least Scythes look ridiculously cool so that's one thing going for them?! :D
The TLDR of the codex is it just fails the vibe check
Your comments on knights are almost exactly how I feel about wulfen....right now they're just improved assault intercessors.....they're supposed to be the best hand to hand unit in the hand to hand chapter
Oof yeah Wulfen are a bit tragic at the moment aren't they! I would say I hope they improve in the SW Codex but... now I'm not sure that's very likely!!
This is the exact problem with this codex. For me, as an DA player of 25 years, these changes doesn't feel proper for Dark Angels. As you mentioned with the weapons of the Knights, Companions and the Lion, I think the same about the weapons of the other charakters.
The game had fundamental issues and on top of that the codex releases are disgusting and rules need to be online and codexes should be more fluff and hobby oriented, and on top of that the painstaking transition from old models to the newer models and certain factions being neglected. Im a GW superfan but its tragic how they manage this stuff.
One of the first things I did when I got the new terminators was turn one into a Deathwing Strike master so it really sucks that they just took them out of the game. Guess I'll use him as a pimped out Sarge instead.
You can use him as a captain since in this edition you can field 3 of them as GW doesn't give crap about the lore anyhow. And the Strikemasters are above the Deathwing Knights in lore, who get often chosen as the next company masters - so it fits. If I wouldn't go with legends anyhow that's the approach I would take.
I quit chaos and Tau for similiar reasons. Its not about being good or bad its about the feel of the army and units. She they change fundamentally the units away from the lore and squad options you destroy who they actually are. Its like psychological genocide or isentity destruction or gaslighting. That happened in tenth for me so i went for two different armies..
I know having an army that can perform well is fairly mandatory, but for me the lore and feel and identity of any Army is more important than that, I want a balanced game obviously but I just wish it didn't so often have to come at the expense of making armies feel more 'generic' and less fun to play :(
Im doing Dark Angels themed space marines. But doing an army and doing Vanguard Spearhead Detachment
This Codex is an epic fail
What would make the deathwing knights worth 290 for 5 at thier current profile is anti-character 4 or 3 up and devastating wounds.
With this crap show, I'm DREADING what GW will do to my Deathwatch!!
the Dark Angels are becoming just green marines
I'm feeling nervous about my Blood Angels and we didn't get our fucking PRIMARCH back, I feel sorry for you fellow angels of death
I think the most disappointing thing was the lack of availability of the terminators box. I wanted to support the official release, but clearly they don't wnat my money, they'd rather the scalpers get it. (which thery won't because feeding the scalpers only worsens this but I digress) They would make enough kits for everyone if that wasn't the case! I have a life/job/obligations, I can't be sure to be online at X o'clock to grab a kit in the 5-10--20 minutes they are available!
As a Ravenwing player, losing the Talonmaster (basically THE lieutenant of Ravenwing) has made some of my the models I'm most proud of obsolete with no way to proxy them. The Ravenwing command squad being able to join Black knights was a welcome change. The Land Speeder vengeance nerf was GW telling Dark Angels players not to buy it anymore. The detachment for Ravenwing is garbage and I'll just use stormlance with Black knights. Outriders becoming Troops is nice but are still garbage for the cost. Overall, until Flyers/land speeders/Outriders get cost change or rules change, I don't think I'm playing Ravenwing. same goes for Deathwing
Buff back the Lion's shield man. At least make it a -1 to hit if not wound. Buff his sword back as well. Give inner circle companions 4+ invulnerable. Buff black knight movement and AP. At least give deathwing knights more AP or attacks. They are elite of the deathwing.
Win rate below 50% and they nerf badly by GW, not very nice, deathwing indentity gone, talon master gone, dont feel playing Dark angel anymore and luck for GW I cant cancel my pre order so this would be the last minist buying DA theme for my main army
At least my laziness paid off and I haven't painted my termie unit with thunder hammers and storm shields.
I totally agree. I don't care if they make the nerfed units even half the points costs. What matters is that their abilities match their lore, legend and even just common sense from looking at the models and art. Let elite things be truly elite and make Dark Angels feel like Dark Angles and not just some bland stats without imagination on pretty new minis.
I am a new player of Dark Angels. When Deathwing Assualt pack released, I was excited and pre ordered it, but the codex rules made me disappointed…my first army just like a piece of shxt! I can’t understand why GW did that terrible mistake? They hate Lion el’ Johnson and every sons of lion?Ah…fxck that, maybe I will cancel my Deathwing Assualt pack and change my army to chaos…
Well l was very unhappy at being unable to secure the new deathwing box for a friend. And niw he quit and l saved money. Yay .
Vanguard Veterans with heirloom weapons: Welcome to the club!
I was excited to finally get into playing the game in 10th edition, but with the spirit that GW is bringing to it I am just going to paint my guys and enjoy them as collectors pieces. It’s sad because I was excited, but I don’t really have the time anyway so it is for the best.
You're basically correct. I started playing at the beginning of 5th with Dark Angels and have been at it ever since. GW could reintroduce the things we've lost over time but it's super lame they've made the changes you talk about.
This sums up a lot of my thoughts on the codex. A good points set up could make dark angels GOOD or COMPETITIVE (although if I'm honest I doubt the will), but even a super low points cost won't make them FUN.
This seems to be a common theme for all the new codex's, the homogenising of units with all of a factions flavour and individuality being beaten out with the bland stick!
this whole codex is a really big feel bad for DA players, very not good
I was watching a match last night of DAs vs CSM. Lion went in fresh vs a Daemon Prince and hit him with everything he had. The daemon tanked the hits and proceeded to one-shot lion in the biggest dice betrayal ive seen in a long time. There was the Lion of Caliban; a so called melee focused beast designed to take on monsters and he got utterly annihilated by one. I don't care if hes only 300 points now, he has neither the stats nor rules to withstand the threats that he draws as a melee character. His buffs are meh, his shooting is token at best but he just cant kill the enemies hes supposed to. I pray the next round of rules revisions this summer fixes him, he's embarrassingly underpowered.
Lion got shitted canned from being overcosted and pointless to now soft and weak while also over costed and crap… but the thing that really makes me mad is what they have done to the deathwing not having th/ss guys with the lads with the chainfists and the missle launchers… it just pissed me right the fuck off… cause there was no reason for that, it did not need to happen.. and it is counter lore and lames out the frigen best terminators the imperium can field… garbage rules…
This is how I feel with Blood Angels, they just feel so lacking in so many ways it comes off as a side thought
I am happy to have cancelled my preorder before the reveal
Rules can change.
True, and I sincerely hope they will, it's just GW typically tends to fix things with points, at least first,so I don't think there'll be any significant amendments to the rules for quite a while, and whilst dropping points will make some of these Units 'better' in terms of competitive strength, I still think they just feel akward statswise no matter what they're costed at, which is my big issue with this book :(
under welling come to mind
GW only buff things if the army sells. It's convoluted. If you understand UK culture, then this will make more sense.
Not true. The Lion sold incredibly well by your logic he should be OP.
10th edition in general has just been disappointing so far. Changing points costs might make units more competitive, but the core mechanics and design philosophy are both so boring. The game used to be so much more fun to actually play; I think from 7th edition onward was where the game really fell off. I was wishing beyond all hope that 10th edition would end up being a remaster of 5th edition lol a man can dream
It seems that whoever wrote the codex is a true Fallen and has no chance for redemption by Lionel.
So the bladeguard veterans are not an elite unit? From the comparisons you would assume that they were chaff.
Im happy thats not another power-creep, deathwing termies had their shine time on 9th edition woth perma-transhuman. Looking On this codex i thonk ppl will Find cool builds.
But the plasma is the same with Astra and the Leman russ with plasmacannon
My doom stalker is way better than the death guard when it comes to points and everything right now and that is crazy
1) Inner Circle Companions + Azrael = WOW!
2) The Deathwing Knights, on the other hand, are very meh
3) Land Speeder Vengeance sucks
4) Lion'el Johnson is nerfed but is still a strong character imho
5) Deathwing Terminators suck
6) Greenwing sucks
6) Ravenwing stuff is good for me
The codex is poor at first sight (in comparison to the others).
On the plus side the new models are absolutely banging but i am pissed as heck about all the shit rules these incredible new models got… oh we can have a plasma cannon termie who can blow himself up and it way worse than the much safer cyclone missile launcher guy that we are all gunna take… the inner circle companions sucking hurts my soul cause all those lads should really be lore wise the oldest Marines in the imperium on account of them all being the fallen from calliban and that should come with some incredible rules up scaling for them but nah we got no invuln and a wiffle bat… look at the black templars and sword brethern… these guys should be like that squad but on acid… most of our new character s suck… asmodai sucks, laz sucks, belial sucks, lion sucks, Azreal is really really good and Ezekiel is really kinda niche, Sammuel is kinda great… but all the rules in the book kinda force you to run raven wing to be competitive… i like the raven wing command squad that’s great, black knights are still great, storm speeders with that detachment rules will be great but outriders still more or less suck and they are your core of this… which is kinda lame…
I hate it. I feel utterly robbed by GW not only as a dark angels player but of my money! The box set and the models yet to be released aren’t worth buying and my army it utterly pointless playing. About the lion a good comparison is the necron void dragon 12W 4+ invun 5+FNP and then halves the incoming damage and the sweep is S12 AP-3 and DM D6+2 but still same point value as the lion go figure
Leman russ battlecannon. Inus 1. Where is the complaint? 😅
🙂
My thoughts... i never enjoyed playing with objectives.. deathmatch is just more fun.. belial went from a mini lion to a.. guy in armor... the lion... now i feel i have to keep him behind the line instead of leading it.... lion is 350 now knights are back to 235 but we are still waiting for the official post codex points..i just... eh started an imperial knights army... why is the fun gone... deathwing Terminators not being able to mix n match...thats a deathblow, Why take them at all?
bro is just like hearing myself in your video the GW rule team really f things up this time
Well, when you put it like that, GW has "some explaining to do"!
ah, but see, if they don't improve the rules, and just make the points cheaper, then people have to buy more models to fill out their list.
Lets face it its better to be a collector than a player especially a competetive one. I buy models because I love the DA chapter, and dont care about the rules, if Im going to play I will just for fun. We have to stop for a second and think.. people think ! This is a sbuisness, they arent game devs, they dont care but still is weird that they made this codex so lame, when they always do the first run a op one to sell models. I am dissapointed in the revamp, lazy af, no new RW, even Ezekiel didnt get new model lol , where BT got whole army refreshed. Pisses me off that they cut many nice things that could be a nice kitbash project for those who have old and new sets and we got just one new unit...but still I understand, its all about the end of old SM models, and to have many more editions of the codex open for some new models to keep it fresh.
This is the *_Best_* we get from the *_"Best Wargames/Model company in THE 🌎 world🌍."*_. (GW has got reacee 🐒🐵🐒's working for them, all the "Talent & Creatives" have rightly jumped 🚢 ship & are now making their own better games ☺️🎯)