Josh Pate On G5-Only Playoff - Twitter Pushback! (Late Kick Cut)
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- Опубликовано: 29 апр 2024
- The College Football Playoff is expanding but not everyone is happy with the result as G5 conferences have begun exploring other options. On Late Kick Live Ep 508 Josh Pate shared feedback he received after discussing a report the G5 could explore having their own playoff in the future. Let us know what you think in the comments below and be sure to SUBSCRIBE to the channel and CLICK THE BELL for notifications as we bring you multiple live shows per week!
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As a South Alabama fan I would like to point out that the two clips of upsets in that edit you showed were USA's only 2 P5 wins (Miss State 2016, Oklahoma State 2023). First off, they were showing South Alabama specifically because that's who you were talking about, and second, that isn't nearly the flex those people think it is when those are, again, the only two P5 wins we even have.
There are FCS teams with more P5 wins than South Alabama. But they play their own playoff because they don't have the resources to compete with FBS. Why should the G5 be the only group of teams in all of collegiate athletics who have zero chance to win any kind of championship?
As a San Jose State fan, I couldn't agree more. Sure, go ahead and play your one or two regular season games against Oregon or USC to bring in money -- but don't pretend you can beat Ole Miss, Michigan, Kansas State and Alabama in a row to win the 12 or 14 team playoff. That would be tough to do on a PS5 playing on Easy mode.
Go to the San Jose State locker room and ask them if they agree
@@scottyclayton2501 you mean go ask them how they feel about finally having a chance at winning a national title?
@@jcallen21 you won’t see San Jose State winning a chip this year. But go ask their locker room see if they agree with me
I wouldn’t mind seeing an 8 team G5 playoff in addition to this system though. The highest ranked G5 still makes the “big playoff”
4 G5 champs + 1 G5 runner up of the league in the “big playoff” + 3 G5 at larges.
The G5 tournament championship plays the same day prior to the national championship as like an undercard leading up to a headlining fight. So does the FCS natty.
“D1 National Championship Saturday”
FCS title - morning/noon
G5 title - Afternoon
CFP title- evening
Give college fans some appetizers leading up to a title on a SATURDAY
If there’s a G5 playoff, I don’t think the top G5 team should go to the power 4 playoff. That only takes away the credibility of the G5 championship. I do love the championship Saturday. It’s absurd that the national championship is played on a Monday
I wish the games were on Saturday. I want that for all the NCAA sports. I hate how its on a monday and would 100% prefer Saturdays. And screw the nfl, if we have to compete against one playoff game, whatever. I think the championship can earn a ton of money
Josh is right. This would give those programs a legitimate championship goal. Look at the FCS. The biggest hurdle is getting people to let go of their pride.
Top 25% of G5 is better than the bottom 25% of P4
@scottyclayton2501 But they're not better than the top 25% of the P4, which is the point. Also, maybe that bottom 25% should join the G5.
I agree with Josh Pate on this one
A NIT/NCAA tournament format for comparable teams based on performance makes perfect sense in basketball but somehow football its seen as degrading. It's insane. I'd much rather watch a NIT/G5 playoff than see a G5 school barely make the current playoff and probably get smoked by Michigan or Georgia or Oregon or any other huge program.
If they do this, relegation absolutely MUST be a thing. Look at schools like ND. Sure they have "deep pockets" but every single time they make the playoff, they get absolutely throttled. I say if you show you have no shot at winning the "big boy" playoffs over and over.....time to go down a league bud!
Grouping should be based on money/ size of institution.
@@patrickn8355 Thats really stupid. Teams that make semifinal games and play in new years six bowls are among the top 5% in college football even if they dont win those games. We should structure it the same way that high school football does, basing it off a combination of enrollment size, resources/money, and other factors. Because sure, Nebraska may be bad at football right now and hasn't been good in awhile, nothing however will change the fact that Nebraska is a way bigger school with way more money than a school like Bowling Green for example. If Nebraska got its ducks in a row and got its act together Nebraska could go back to winning national championships. Even if Bowling Green was running its program at 110% efficiency they could not win a national championship. I believe that teams should be able to move up and down but not relegation style. If a team wants to move up it should be based on an increase in enrollment or an increase in investment into the football program. They should have to show that they are committed to being good at football like the big schools are. If you are not willing to make that commitment then stop trying to act like you are playing for the same championship.
I feel like twice every decade or so, you'll get a team like 2010 Boise State, 2017 UCF, 2021 Cincinnati, or 2022 Tulane that is capable of competing with the best of the P5. Usually you don't have this though. An ideal system would be only having a G5 make the playoff if a team is worthy, and you create bowl games where the 4 best G5 conference champions that DON'T make the playoff play in a bracket.
I hope you see this Josh. I'm a proud alumnus of Southern Miss. I have been saying it for years. In MS when people say "oh their a G5" I always ask how they felt when their Alma Mater won a conference title? Oh its not the SEC. Then I say how sad it must be to never know that feeling and that shuts them up. I'd rather have the feeling of winning a G5 playoff than go in knowing there is no chance.
I would actually watch G5 games if there was a G5 playoff..... They would make more viewership nationally just having their own playoff than they get most of the year combined - sort of like how march madness draws insane crowds but only hardcore ish fans actually watch most of the games in CBB now. I agree it'd be a massive boost for your conference/division!
People aren't understand the concept. Josh Pate is trying to safe traditional college football for the G5. In 10-15 years when the BIG TEN and SEC leaves everyone behind for the NFL Model which most college fans dislike they can then turn to the G5 which will be a traditional form of college football.
Separate but equal, that will probably be the response of many to a separate G5 playoff. Splitting D1 football again, this time into 3 parts. FCS, G5, P4 (soon to be P2/3). G5 gets dropped down to their own play, then Power conferences don't schedule as much, OOC games become less attractive. CFB completes its transformation into NFL-lite. Quality of play drops down. Seeing a draft pick becomes even rarer. It's newsworthy that NMState gets a draft pick, like an FCS, D2 or D3 team today.
I would like to see a record of +.500 G5 teams vs +.500P5 teams in the last decade though, just to see the bad teams really drop off
A g5 playoff would garner more interest than the random bowl games these schools go to. It would have to be more profitable.
I just want to see my team play more games. I really enjoyed watching George’s basketball basketball program having an extended life in the national invitational tournament. I know they weren’t good enough to play at the higher level but winning several postseason games elevated the program. They caught the eyes of some potential recruits or transfers.
Drop back to an 11 game regular season. Have conference championship games. Then have a 24 team playoff,the 9 conference champs get automatic bids,then 15 at-large bids.
Just no, those G5 schools are not good enough to win and you want to get rid of regular season games?
@@happynotredamefan3736 This would mean that every team that would have an undefeated season would have a shot ,and 1 less regular season game before the championship games would still add up to a 12 game regular season, 24 teams with top eight getting a bye, the new years six would rotate as the quarter and semifinals then championship games.
No one is saying there isn't a massive resource gap. Most of us G5 fans just want to avoid what happened in the 70s split and become FCS 2.0 and sink to THAT level of irrelevance. Look at their attendance and viewership now...
You’re just early Josh. We are still reeling from the mess that is NIL, Portal, and realignment. Five years from now, G5 fans will beg for a G5 playoff. FCS playoffs are exciting, some fantastic football. Let’s have more post season for more teams. I think you’re on the right track, just may be too much for some fans to digest in the midst of all the other changes.
Agree in concept, but Iowa State has about the same chance to win the National title as the G5, so they need a different playoff too?
I love what you do brother! As a fellow G5 follower(App State fan), I couldn’t agree with you more! I think the bowl game system should generalize into a G5 playoff system and stop allowing trash 6-6 teams in a bowl game. The majority of players sit in bowl games anyways. Add a playoff system and they play harder, simple as that
Josh you just opened up a can of worms I don’t think you meant to open 😂😂
My only pushback, look at your 4th -6th place school in any power 5 conference, and they are in the same boat as the G5. They might as well be S Ala. IL, Miss St, Duke, Ark, Baylor, etc all in major conferences but on average have no real shot (most years) at the playoffs, and now, with 12 teams definitely not a title. No shade to those programs, They all have more resources than the G5, but the same end season results.
Based on what you're saying a significant amount of teams in each power conference "isn't playing the same sport" as the others (your words). What is the metric for this, is it really stadium sizes and athletic budgets? Is UCF, Cincy, UH not playing the same sport as the rest of the Big 12 (recent G5 teams). Is there a clear point of separation? Do the bottom power teams just automatically stay in the "same sport" category as the successful power programs?
While you bring up programs like Washington let me remind you just in 2021 they were below .500 with an FCS loss. Surely, (with the access you have) you don't think the aliens dropped them a remote with a "same sport" button in the following year. Who gets grace? Who doesn't? Are you saying they "play the same sport" because the universities have money? If that's your stance you should be clear and say that.
I know Josh is doing this in part to counter those who think he doesn’t give his true opinions when it comes to college football… but I have high doubts that he would speak so frankly about the ACC/BIG12, who suffer under similar conditions when compared to the B1G and SEC.
So with this logic, lower tier power 5 teams should have their own playoff too? There’s a big gap in resources between Alabama and Virginia.
So the G5 should just volunteer for even less National relevancy, less viewership and less money just for a trophy
Bold strategy
Although I believe your heart is in the right place the problem with your idea is that it would turn the G5 into the FCS. The “medicine” is making the schools irrelevant.
Not only THAT (All that You’re saying Josh):
Due to NIL (Deal Monies) & The Transfer Portal, mostly all of the G5 players, who turn-out to become G5 Stars, will (eventually) Leave their G5 programs Early (via transfer portal) to P-5 schools for the Nice NIL (level) deals, that they aren’t Getting at the G5 level. Which is going to eventually cause the G5 programs to grow weaker & weaker, to were they won’t be enabled to Compete at ALL vs P5 schools & P5 level CFB Championships. So Therefore, they might as WELL acquire their own Championships.
I Totally Agree Josh… Especially on the what you said “The Alien” 😂😂😂😂… might say 😁.
Josh is Funny Kool 😎😁
Keep up the Great Work My Man… 👍🏿
The best G5 team has a 40% win percentage in NY6 games
I love the fire!! Call people out more often. Way to go Pate. Stinking hilarious how people blow this crap out of context. G5 playoff please! College Football has the weakest playoff process and setup compared to almost every other professional sport. That narrative needs to change. There is a reason the NFL postseason is one of the most watched playoff structures in sports today. G5 I would argue could honestly lead the way and show the men with the mustaches how to do it right.
Go Jags but also yes Josh correct
Oklahoma state wasn’t mediocre that year they were a playoff contender
Hey man, Cincinnati kept it closer than half the playoff games ever in the first round. I expect Notre Shame to be in that puppy playoff until they actually win it then, cause G5 teams consistently beat them even in south bend and they *ALWAYS* get destroted in the playoffs.
Sooo as long as notre shame is in the G5 playoffs, I'm on board!
There is a reason Cincinnati is no longer in the G5. Because their resources dwarfed 99% of G5 teams.
There is also a reason they got their butts handed to them in the weakest P5 conference last year. Because their resources are dwarfed by 90% of P5 teams.
@@ChadRazorbackcongratulations you just proved his point
Cincinnati lost to Alabama 27-6 (21 point difference) and scored no TDs. Notre Dame lost to Alabama the year prior 31-14 (17 point difference) and scored two TDs. The Alabama team ND lost to was undefeated and went on to win the national championship. The Alabama team Cincinnati lost to did neither of those things. Congrats to Cinci for making it but quit clowning yourself
Bama had a pretty average O line and running game that year and crushed cincy on both those fronts.
In that logic then why should the ncaa tournament include UMBC, Saint peters, etc.
And yes while most likely they won’t win it….. there can still be a magical run in a playoff like a George Mason or loyola Chicago.
Not a fan of this take at all.
Don't worry, that's next on the schedule.
Playing on a bigger stage trumps just winning any ole trophy
Fact is nobody watches sub-level playoff games.
FCS Title Gm: 1.04 M Views
NIT Title Gm: 1.1 M Views
And 0% National Coverage
A G5 participate will get 4x-8x more coverage in the first round alone.
And this is not even bringing up the fact that G5 will also surrender their 9% share of playoff revenue in the current model.
The only reason G5 schools are looking into separating is because they have to, not because they want to
I agree 100% with Josh! The G5 🌰 grabbers are delusional at best! They really think they can compare to P5 budgets,NIL potential, and fan bases🤣🤡💀
I don't have any interest in winning three baseball national titles, but play for a g5 national title. Shit just ain't right
He watches G5 football yet puts SMU as the best record last year (may be the graphic guys fault). Liberty went 13-1
Before I take my medicine tell me why Vandy, Northwestern, Indiana & Kansas (...Yeah they're good NOW)...get to have a shot at the playoff and Appalachian, Memphis & Boise dont? The rest of the G5 is a different convo.
Uhh, Josh Pate is trying to GET them a shot at the playoff. By creating one they actually have a chance to win.
App state Memphis Boise State have a better chance to win the CFP than Vanderbilt
@@scottyclayton2501 They legitimately don't.
@@scottyclayton2501 Use your brain. Vandy wont make the P5 playoff, and they will only make it if they ever turn their program around, but tulane can make it and get throttled, thats what hes arguing for a playoff that g5 teams could win.
G5 Is to P5 as Bishop Sycamore is to IG Academy
That’s why they win 40% of NY6 bowls they play in. Your right congratulations the P4 won a majority (60%). Of NY6 bowls against G5 teams. Not the dominant performance that constitutes a G5 playoff
@@scottyclayton2501so the G5 are the trans women of college football 😂
@@jcallen21 ?
Hey if we are doing your logic, we should only have a playoff of just Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, Michigan, Texas, Penn State, Oregon, and probably LSU.
Vanderbilt isn’t playing on the same level as Alabama and Georgia. Indiana isn’t playing the same sport as Michigan and Ohio State.
There is no way Vanderbilt, Indiana, Mississippi State, Northwestern are playing on the same sport as Penn State, LSU, Texas, or Oregon.
Its for the opportunity for these G5 teams to have a program defining win and to win a major opponent to show off their university and program. No one knew App State until they beat Michigan, no one knew Boise State until they beat Oklahoma in the fiesta, and no one knew UCF till they went undefeated and beat Auburn. So its not just a chance for a championship, its a chance to put your school on the map.
That is why the G5 don’t want a separate playoff! (At least to me)
and the fact that those teams bring in more money and beat those g5 teams he’s talking about a higher clip even FURTHERS the gap between g5 and top p5😂 o ones saying they have to stop playing p5 teams in general they can still get those prgram defining wins because 2/3 u named weren’t even in the post season you can get those wins without trying to get consistently throttled by the top teams
@@yoc329 Boise states and UCF wins was in the post season? Did you forget that NY6/BCS are post season? 😂
And there are more I can mention like Houston beating FSU in the peach, or TCU beating Wisconsin in the Rose, ETC.
Crazy for that argument when NW, Mississippi State, has lost to FCS schools more times than beating their own top dogs. So strange for that argument when Boise and UCF has beaten Georgia more recently than Mississippi State. 😂😂
And the only reason why they earn more money is with a the P5 sticker on them. Which makes it more sad that ULM has more wins against Alabama since the 2000s than Vanderbilt has since the 80s! 😂😂😂
@@ninjadanny628 bro he already shutdown that point by showing the records against p5 teams and you are doing exactly what he talks about 😂i could list all the times p5 stomped g5 but that would take up the whole comment section . the bottom of the p5 isn’t gonna win either 🤣but SUMBODY has to be the bottom of the p5 everyone can’t be at the top . the fact is that they aren’t beating top teams and even if they do they can’t do it consistent enough to win a championship😂u naming the bottom p5 teams WHO ALSO. can’t win natties but BRING IN WAY MORE MONEY AND HAVE BETTER PLAYERS . if u put the bottom half of p5 in the g5 and have them have their own playoffs the bottom tier p5 would win and yet they STILL wouldn’t be good enough to be top of p5
@@yoc329 reminder of this, the only reason why they bring in WAY MORE MONEY. Is because of the sticker on the back of their helmet that says “B1G” or “SEC”. Why else you think all the money is earned from like the top 10 P4 teams on this point. Put those bottom P4 teams at the same G5 revenue pool, you will see “wow! These teams aren’t earning as much money as (insert top team)”
@@yoc329 reminder, the only reason why those bottom P4 earn more money is because of the sticker that says “SEC” or “B1G”. Remove that sticker and put them in a G5 league, you would say “wow! These teams are not on the same level or earning as much as (insert top team)!”
Its still good to point out that, if one group isn’t good enough to compete at a championship level, should treat all teams equal no matter what that sticker says.
As a G5 fan I am ONLY in favor of this if we remove Vanderbilt and all the other bottom feeders of the P4 and replace them with the top G5 teams. The P4 should be the top 65ish football programs I don’t care about media markets or anything else. Then again I am still skeptical
My dream proposal (under the 12 team playoff) is where the G5 conf chips are one week early. Then the 2 highest ranked champions play their magical dream like Group of 5 championship that the must compete for (sarcasm). The winner gets the slot in the CFP
Wishful thinking. Even though Vandy’s fb is not good they’re still great at ACADEMICS and baseball. They’re not leaving the SEC anytime soon.
They already have multiple divisions of college football, Josh.
They just let the FBS get way too big for money reasons. There's no competitive reason for there to be 133 teams in the FBS.
The best thing, from a competitive standpoint, would be the top tier of college football to be no more than around 60 teams.
There’s 69 power 5 teams. ND makes 70. Those 70 teams need to break away and make an new subdivision of D1
@@dallasmorrow21 Honestly, not all those P5 teams need to come along. Some of them are worse than upper level G5 teams.
@@saldiven2009 I thought that at first but as I went through them all it just felt so wrong to kick them out. Maybe I’m just too sappy for the sport
Look as North Texas fan, we know we will never be a top tier program, probably will never make the playoffs, and will probably never as good as A&M or UT, what it comes down to is opportunity and money. We are seeing it now where SEC and Big 10 obviously are a P2 and for most of those teams it makes sense as they have the resources, but to think of the 69 power teams all have a shot at winning the national title is just the same as the top G5 teams to win the title, reasonably speaking I would bet there is about 30 ish teams of the 69 who have a legit shot at winning it all, the rest are just fillers, while they have more resources than 90% of the G5 they definitely do not have a shot at winning it all. So should we just cut them off as well? Why not just make a pre-NFL with the teams that actually have a shot or who have the most resources? Then split that into a mid division with the bottom P4, then a G5, then FCS?
From the fan perspective to me its about the upsets, I enjoy watching the Tulane's upset the USC's of the college football world, elevating programs allowing schools like Houston and Cinncy to move up and get a chance to build something. You can include a regulation system which is super complicated on its own but my point to this is, I don't think majority of the fans want to watch a pre-NFL where college teams who are far richer just play in a separate league, its fun watching a lower tier team compete and although it was like 20-150 record of G5 teams vs P5 those 20 wins are the fun of college football
This the topic I disagree most with pate. I’m not a g5 fan but the idea that a magic sticker on your helmet makes you better or worse is silly. The argument that take the worse sec school and put them in another conference they win ten or take for instance a acc school and they’d get destroyed in the sec in silly also, that’s conjecture and you have zero evidence to back that up. A two loss sec or big 10 school isn’t always better than an elite g5 school, that has zero merit. It’s almost like you look at the helmet sticker of the conference and nothing else matters. It’s truly a stupid argument, you do it like every other team, look at the coaching and players on the team from a talent evaluation perspective much like the nfl do.
That being said many g5 teams deserved access but in the last 25 year only 3-5 teams could have really competed for a championship, it’s extremely rare and should have a metric to treat it as such. The idea that it’s a forgone conclusion went you can’t even evaluate the talent on the g5 team in question is simply ludicrous.
go5 playoff is trash. now the go5 teams wouldnt have a chance to win a national title.
2006 boise state (along with many other boise state teams)
2008 utah
2010 tcu
and MAYBE 2018 ucf all could have won a national title in their respected years
JOSH PATE PLEASE READ THIS. This is what I wrote on the last clip about the G5 playoff. I added to it slightly.
"I could see the G5 doing this. And it would make sense in a way. But at the same time I'm not sure that's what all those G5 schools signed up for when they transitioned from FCS to FBS. That's our problem... G5 schools are considered FBS. They went through the processes; whether long ago or very recently, to play in the big boy division. But are they really playing in the big boy division is what everyone is trying to figure out. If we make a "G5 Playoff" aren't we basically saying those schools involved wasted time and money jumping up to the FBS? All of a sudden the G5 is it's own division and they Don't get looked at as being anywhere near equal terms with the Power 3/4 out there. The money and exposure those schools at least thought they'd get as FBS schools can't possibly be there anymore if those schools suddenly can't play in the same post-season that the Power conferences play in. Doesn't that just make the G5 the NEW FCS? And then relegates the current FCS to being like the NEW Division 2? What's the point of it all? What was the point of the processes these schools went through? Are you just going to force them down a division despite the efforts they put in to jump up a division? I'm just wondering. I don't think there are good answers to any of this out there."
retweet, retweet, retweet
The G5 playoff is lame attempt by the P4 to get the G5 to self-relegate. How dare they not be dumb enough to fall for it.
Internet is gud...
This is one of the most idiotic takes. I really love your strawman arguments, too.
I think about one of these Group of 5 schools, Rice. I imagine Josh in JFK's place 60 years ago. "Rice should not play Texas! And we should not go to the moon. Some things are just too difficult!"
The most glaringly obsvious counterpoint to Josh is that if the G5 did have a separate playoff, it would constrict every year until it was the size of the 1-AA playoff. That 4 lane highway would quickly become a 2 lane road.
I think this is just throwing shit at wall until it sticks. We haven’t even had a playoff larger than 4 teams and we’re already trying to change it. Everyone calm down and let’s see what happens with the changes already made before losing our mind and saying G5 needs to be anywhere else in the post season.
its not much of a wonder why FCS generates some of the most rabid hard core fan bases.. yeah G5 playoff is far and away the best thing CFB could do for itself as all of a sudden 60+ teams have a whoooole lot more to play for than a P5 bowl matchup that the opponent is likely not even showing up for or one token team to get slaughtered in the P5 playoff ... woulda been a killer move if G5 put an 8 team playoff a decade ago while P5 was stuck on 4 teams.. But now they gotta do it just to stay relevant G5 is basically now just a farm league where good players develop and move up to the big leagues .. yeah G5 playoff is and was a total no brainer .
The funny thing is that if you look at the last decade or so and there are very very few G5 teams who at least had a team worthy of making an theoretical 8 team playoff scenario .. Charlotte, Akron, Rice, UTEP, E.Mich, Uconn, UMass, ULM .. can't think of many others who weren't very close maybe a win away from making a conf champ game .. even N.Mex had a shot in '16 .. missed out on a decade of epic fun ..
First pate state I disliked
“Take your medicine” “this is for your own good” …corporate shill
Your take on a G5 playoff is shallow. While it sounds good in theory, your video does not once highlight the financial risk for mid-major programs in such a scenario. Networks like ESPN, Fox, and CBS will take a larger cut of the profits, and G5 programs will see less money than they would in the current system. Also, the "you don't make money" point is weird considering im sure a majority of fans of P4 programs don't see a dime from their respective programs either. I like your stuff, but on the subject of G5 programs, it's clear that you're looking down from an ivory tower. I'm a Georgia State fan, and i know we'll never compete with UGA, but you're pushing for G5 programs to essentially be FCS programs again, and that's why it's a bad take.
Wow...a GSU fan actually does exist
Totally agree with you though. Talking heads make these comments and don't realize how demeaning, degrading and insulting they are. This idea could lead to the death of a beloved thing for many and doesn't take into count just how bad many P5s are and how good many G5s are.
Go App!
What’s wrong with G5 programs essentially becoming FCS programs when they already are essentially FCS programs?
Cant disagree with you more. Georgia state should not exist in the same league as georgia. Just like georgia shouldnt exist in the same league as the detroit lions.
Except for the fact that G5 programs ARE just glorified FCS programs 😂
@@UnconventionalSparkthat’s ridiculous, the Alabama/Georgia/Michigan/Ohio State/Oregon of the world are in a better tier then everyone else. But to say G5 is FCS? Get your head out of your behind.
One word. Relegation.
I hear you when you have a hyper aggressive predator thats destroying your lively hood you have to take it out .....we have to take out the SEC and big10