Aluminum Welding 101 Do & Don't what, how, where, why
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- For anybody who wants to make their head spin .... and has time to read 72 pages of some serious education ......
www.lincolnelec...
This is the paper that most of this info came from
My thoughts are that in something similar this shapes (angle, channel, tubing) are usually extrusions and are made from a 6xxx alloy that is probably in the T6 condition. Plate is usually rolled and is from a 5xxx alloy that is in at least an H16 temper. I think that it unlikely that a structure like a trailer would be made from a 1xxx (too weak), a 2xxx (generally unweldable and normally used in aerospace applications), a 3xxx (usually for cans and heat exchangers) or a 7xxx alloy (considered not advisable to weld). I doubt that it would be a 4xxx alloy as this is usually for a filler or brazing rod as well as the equivalent casting alloys.
As far as castings go, they well be similar to 4xxx and 6xxx alloys, but in a critical application I would not attempt a repair without knowing the alloy composition, either from the manufacturer or by testing.
Also, I would not attempt repairs without having a qualified welding procedure that is demonstrated to meet certain mechanical properties. After all in my experience, when a weld fails, the first thing that is usually said before any analysis is that "the weld is defective or faulty". I have examined many, many failed weldments and often times it has been that the weld is sound but that the structure is either improperly designed or the weld was subjected to a greater force than what was anticipated. This is especially critical in aluminum structures as the as-welded condition of the weld joint can be less strong than the adjoining parent metal.
>>My thoughts are that in something similar this shapes (angle, channel, tubing) are usually extrusions and are made from a 6xxx alloy that is probably in the T6 condition. >Plate is usually rolled and is from a 5xxx alloy that is in at least an H16 temper. >I think that it unlikely that a structure like a trailer would be made from a 1xxx (too weak),> a 2xxx (generally unweldable and normally used in aerospace applications)>, a 3xxx (usually for cans and heat exchangers) >or a 7xxx alloy (considered not advisable to weld). I doubt that it would be a 4xxx alloy as this is usually for a filler or brazing rod as well as the equivalent casting alloys.
@@ZILAwelds One, no need to shout. Two, As in your video, I am giving general guidance to be helpful. On 6061 T651, that is just a post heat treatment stress relief by stretching and is just one of many heat treat conditions for the 6xxx alloys.
Yes, the 300 series casting alloys have Silicon as the principal alloying element just as the 4xxx alloys have. So yes, a ER4043 filler rod or wire will be appropriate.
A qualified welding procedure is not a joke. It demonstrates that you are using a specified filler metal on a specified alloy or alloy group and that the weld meets certain strength properties. It doesn't matter if you are unable to get information from the manufacturer of the item. You have decided that the material is this alloy and you will use this filler wire. Does your weld meet the strength requirements for that type of weld?
Yes, I am more than aware of how the welding process and choice of filler material can and does affect the weld strength.
I think you missed my point in the last comments that you gave. That is a weld can be sound but the cause of the failure is not due to the weld properties. A weld can meet the appropriate standards and still fail.
And as far as you last statement goes, I have spent most of my life designing welded structures that are made from various alloys including aluminum, stainless steel, high alloy content steels, magnesium and titanium. Some of them are still in orbit.
My attempt was to add to the conversation with general guidelines that might help others to understand what they are getting into.
@@paulkurilecz4209 I am not shouting - for better distinction between your and my writing as I can not change the color of the letters I chose caps ....
@@ZILAwelds Fine, thank you for the explanation.
>>@ZILAwelds One, no need to shout. Two, As in your video, I am giving general guidance to be helpful. On 6061 T651, that is just a post heat treatment stress relief by stretching and is just one of many heat treat conditions for the 6xxx alloys.>Yes, the 300 series casting alloys have Silicon as the principal alloying element just as the 4xxx alloys have. So yes, a ER4043 filler rod or wire will be appropriate.>A qualified welding procedure is not a joke. > It demonstrates that you are using a specified filler metal on a specified alloy or alloy group and that the weld meets certain strength properties. It doesn't matter if you are unable to get information from the manufacturer of the item. >You have decided that the material is this alloy and you will use this filler wire. > Does your weld meet the strength requirements for that type of weld?
Yes, I am more than aware of how the welding process and choice of filler material can and does affect the weld strength.>I think you missed my point in the last comments that you gave. That is a weld can be sound but the cause of the failure is not due to the weld properties. A weld can meet the appropriate standards and still fail.>And as far as you last statement goes, I have spent most of my life designing welded structures that are made from various alloys including aluminum, stainless steel, high alloy content steels, magnesium and titanium. Some of them are still in orbit.>My attempt was to add to the conversation with general guidelines that might help others to understand what they are getting into.
For anybody who wants to make their head spin .... and has time to read 72 pages of some serious education ......
www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/global/Products/Consumable_AluminumMIGGMAWWires-SuperGlaze-SuperGlaze4043/c8100.pdf
This is the paper that most of this info came from
ZILA im starting to get a bunch of aluminun repair work from a particular company they have tank feed trailers and they are highly neglected cracks and breaks all over..ill be spending the next several monthes repairing them....im having alot of issues welding on this...ive got alot of experiences building with aluminum just not repair....i really could use some help
ZILA i just talk to the manufacturer most of its 5052
Thank you for your time I Learned a lot and I’ll go through those 75 pages
Joe Blow i have had my own welding business for well over 10 years - i have been welding for well over 20 years .... 6 years ago when i read this lincoln brochure for the first time i understood about 60% and i didn’t know if i should be happy that i understood that much or sad that i understood that little ....
Aluminum mig is much different than steel mig
And pulse mig and pulse mig aluminum is a totally different animal and really hard to wrap your head around.....
2 years ago when i read the same lincoln brochure again - i understood 100% of what they are talking about and how things work and i used most of the machines mentioned and other machines too ....
Now i would like to say - i know what this is about.....
So dont be discouraged if there are entire pages that make very little to jo sense to you
Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Best wishes from New Zealand.
you are welcome - thank you for watching
The AWS (American welding society) welding handbook is a very useful source of information on welding aluminium. It is very much worthwhile joining the AWS just for the handbooks.
It seems pretty application dependent. Good tip about it being riveted or bolted not being weld able.
Thank you, Peter so much for all tremendous information you have shared with me. Your definitely helping me step up my game and professionalism.
how is your Avortec running ? still strong ? or back to regular spool gun ?
@@ZILAweldsYou have a amazing memory, Peter. That, and the fact that you absorb knowledge like a sponge absorbs water, makes you the great welder you are.
The Avortec is still going strong and very good for aluminum. It's 99% great, but has hiccups 1% of the time. Every 15 minutes of welding, it loses control for 3 seconds and produces shit weld. Then it figures out what it's supposed to be doing, and gets back at it. It's almost funny, but not quite. It is 1000% better than spool gun welding without pulse.
However, this summer it's time for me to buy a HTP 2000 SOMETHING. I want amperage control at my fingertips while I'm welding live to compensate for heat build up. I have determined I no longer want to live without that feature, so this summer I will get a htp.
Maybe you can deliver it, and we'll make an aluminum welding video with you for your viewers. We can show a 100 gallon custom aluminum fuel tank being built for a boat. I do lots of them.
well - if you are ready ... I can deliver first week of April 2022 ! then I dont know ... with these diesel prices I dont know how many more trips I can afford .... LOL
I would love to meet both of you guys and hang around the shop with you. I have no experience welding but I am very curious. I want to start the right way and avoid learning bad habits.
Great Video Pete, makes a lot of sense especially the risk on the welders part. Is the risk really worth it? Think before you repair.
dang, this video is so full of information, thank you guys!!
Whenever the machine shop I work in ordered extruded aluminum box tubing, channel or angle, it was always 6063. It is very "gummy" to machine, but that gumminess was what enabled it to be extruded properly. Our bar stock was usually 6061 unless the customer specified something else.
it all has to do with the heat tread and the condition the aluminum is in like a T6 T5 T2 ... etc ....
so from a welding standpoint of you weld on 6061 which typically comes in a T6 condition and you weld on a 6063 with comes in a T5 or T52 the original strength is higher on the 6061 but after welding on it and destroying the heat treat the 6063 has more strength left in it .....
now in either case if you want to restore the heat treat you have to use 5356 filler on it welding it (although technically it can be welded with 4043 also)
And if you don't heat treat it but you have to machine some welded area off - talk about gummy - 5356 , the weld deposits of it are much harder and machine better wish, the 4043 leaves a real soft and gummy deposit and is no fun to machine unless you know what to do and do it every day and have the right tooling ...
That answers the question of if we have an "oops" on a machined part and need to weld and machine for appearances sake. Thanks.
Great video guys.
thanks - and thanks for watching
If welding Aluminum makes it weaker than the original parent metal, then how about those Aluminum brazing rods? The alloy is supposed to be stronger than the Aluminum. So if you can't weld it, how about brazing it? Thank you!
that can be a VERY good option, so can bolting be. or if you weld it - it needs to be re-heat treated but those brazing rods look really easy to use on youtube - in real life, it takes very clean material and a good technique...
Welding a cast aluminium transmission is a sketchy idea? Hmmmm... I did that.
I put new mounts on it, and a different boss pattern for the clutch slave. But it's not safety critical and the worst that could happen is someone doesn't win a race. It won't fall out on the ground or anything.
I will be reading every word of that PDF now.
for real - skim through it at least diagonally - there is a lot of good information in it ! about aluminum grades, filler material, equipment, how mig pulse welding works, it is very interesting and informative to say the least
I'm pretty interested in the more complicated pulse stuff. I am hoping to find a bit more information on the reasoning behind doing what they do. But I bet they have spent millions of dollars in R&D on that, so I guess they wouldn't be giving away any proprietary information!
Interesting implications for repairs for newer Ford trucks made from aluminum.
Why not analyze the material with XRF gun? You can determine the alloy that way.
because those are $10ooo+ and I cant afford that
@@ZILAwelds good point.
is a Home Depot aluminum weldable and how about aluminum from doors and windows ... thx
look at the black ink print - the bin where they have the angle and sq tubing and flat stock in ... most of the time those items have a black ink print on the back saying something like Kaiser aluminum 6061 T6 ..... so most of the time it is 6000 series aluminum and if it is - than it is weldable
aluminum door and windows are typically also made from 6000 series aluminum 6061 or 6063 or similar ... and yes - most of those are weldable too
ZILA
I just purchased a CK MT200-AC/DC welder and it's tig .... lol I really have no idea what I'm doing I just wanted a welder.
thx for your quick response
it should work ... looks like a ever last that was painted black ... but that is neither here nor there - a good machine to get into welding ... why spend 4 grand if you are not sure that you like it or that you can master it ... if later on you feel the need to upgrade you can always do that. good luck with your project
So I'm trying to weld a diamond plate tool box. Does it really matter what materials I'm using? I'm simply trying to seal up a crack
This is a non critical repair. Chances are you will be fine with whatever
@@ZILAwelds ok awesome! Thank you for the fast response!
@@ZILAwelds do you have an Instagram?
@@vr6prodigy @zilawelds
I want to fix a few cracks and holes in my aluminum jon boat. Probably .080 ga. What wire would you use?
Matthew Herrington 5356 035 dia 100% argon
Thank you for the fast reply! I have never welded aluminum but am buying the HTP Pro Pulse 200.
great video ya peter
thank you Ya Steve
great video boys!!!
would you use a 5183 filler on 6061 t6?
i personally never have tried a 5183 filler rod - i would have to do some reading, i don't have first hand experience - sorry
so according to the literature i found the main application for a 5183 filler is 5083 aluminum base material (which is marine grade aluminum) boats and stuff
it is a Al Mg4.5% Mn0.7% aluminum with 4.5% magnesium 5356 has 5% magnesium and 1% manganese in it (5554 wire also has Mg and Mn in it) the manganese makes the weld harder, on a mig welder you need an extra volt or 2 compared to 5356 wire if all other settings are the same
I would think that you could use it for 6061 but i don't have any real information what specs the deposits will have or what strength the actual weld will have - it appear that it would work though
ALLOY CHARACTERISTICS
ALLOY 5183 WAS ORIGINALLY DEVELOPED IN 1957 TO PROVIDE THE HIGHEST STRENGTHS POSSIBLE IN THE AS-WELDED CONDITION OF ALLOY 5083 AND OTHER SIMILAR HIGH MAGNESIUM ALLOYS. THE MORE COMMON FILLER ALLOY 5356, WILL TYPICALLY FAIL TO MEET THE AS-WELDED TENSILE SPECIFICATION REQUIREMENTS OF ALLOY 5083.
THE ALLOY IS TYPICALLY UTILIZED IN MARINE AND STRUCTURAL APPLICATIONS WHERE HIGH STRENGTHS, HIGH FRACTURE TOUGHNESS FOR IMPACT RESISTANCE, AND EXPOSURE TO CORROSIVE ELEMENTS ARE IMPORTANT. THE ALLOY IS NOT RECOMMENDED FOR ELEVATED TEMPERATURE APPLICATIONS DUE TO ITS SUSCEPTIBILITY TO STRESS CORROSION CRACKING.
this is straight from Alcotec spec sheet
I have had a few people come in and ask me if I can weld an aluminium casting in the past when I tell them them it depends they rush out to bring it in all hopefull and it turns out to be Mazack. A few have even got stroppy when I refuse to even try to weld the rubbish.
A minimum charge wil fix that. LOL everything i do in the shop has a certain minimum charge and if it is cast iron (nickel rod - or magnesium) double that minimum charge .... so to weld the cast iron feet for the bench in your backyard (which just was on sale at home depot for $99 for the entire bench ...... ) you can buy a new batch AND some ... so the guy is all mad at me - but sorry - this is how much i have to have to run a business here .... i can not compete with chinese mass production imports ...
Some people understand - others never will .... i don't do any exhaust welding for $25 either ... go to your local muffler shop ...
i mean almost everything can be fixed - but if it is worth it or not - that is not my call ...
ZILA good answer,
Thanks.
thanks for watching
great video ,learn something new ever time I watch it .check out other u-tube videos for checking for alum cast crack checking .
I miss chuckE2009:(
dont we all?
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