Buy (or obtain access to) a small, used sandblasting or beadblasting cabinet. Set it up outdoors or in a well-ventilated garage. Lightly beadblast a model. Use compressed air to drive off the blasting media. Spray a patina solution on the model, preferably in a fine mist. Seal the model in a plastic container, so that the surface of the model is not touched by it. This prevents the solution from simply drying. Unseal and check the model every two hours, until the model presents the desired effect. Do not add detergent (which is a strong base) to patina solutions (which are mild acids). If you want to thicken the solution, experiment with Jell-O or other similar glycerine powder. You will be amazed at the difference in the finish, as opposed to using a wire brush. Your models will look as weathered as you like. Sand or glass bead media will reach places that a brush never could, and you can easily control how lightly or heavily the blasting affects the surface. Enjoy. -Doc
I think if done right on the right model the results would look amazing. I think Joel's basically liked like plastic with some paint splattered on it. He really needed to expose the base metal out of the plastic.
If it was just metal I would agree. The problem here is its mostly plastic. I think getting the desired effect with a sand blaster would be tricky without destroying the model or at the very least damaging small details.
Thanks for the tip! As I have a bead-blaster loaded with super fine silica at the shop, I'll have to try this! I've just never printed with a metal-fill yet since I've only bought bronze nozzles. Next purchase I'll try it out.
As a blacksmith I have used a LOT of their products. GREAT stuff! If you plan a little, look at real metal and how it ages then mix those colors and in those amounts on the project. You can get a result that looks like the actual metal many many years old. It comes down to surface prep and how much you use of the colors, a light dusting is better than dripping wet. The thicker the coating the more the reaction. On the TARDIS models you sprayed heavy and it collected at the horizontal places thus more reaction. You are right about surface tension and the droplets causing more reaction. The wax is for layers of color, I have used up to 15 colors on work. Think of wear patterns also as you work.
Months late to this video, but as a coatings engineer, oxidizing metals is one of the things I do for a living. It was encouraging to watch you taking notes and working through this process. We only know what we know, so even though times in the video made me cringe, it was enjoyable. I have a product that can oxidize brass to a dark brown in about 3 minutes. I also have done some brass PLA printing but never thought to mix these two items. Printing being my hobby while the oxidation is my job. You have inspired me to do some experimenting. Thank you!
The 'patches' were most likely caused by being slightly too close with the spray nozzle, need to give the solution a chance to be dispersed into a fine mist (some spray bottles you can twist the nozzle to control if you want a stream or a mist), but as well you could brush the model with the solution to evenly coat the solution.
From my (limited) experience with these sorts of solutions on metal infill parts, the problem is that even if you get an even layer initially, the solution will form into droplets on the surface over time. Roughing up the surface helps a bit, but you're better off submerging the model in solution or wrapping it in saturated paper towels to ensure an even coating. Or you can just spray the model down multiple times.
Sandblasting may reduce details, However, if you use the crushed walnut shell for the blasting media it will do great without taking away the details. It is used in finely detailed blasting but won't damage soft materials. thus presto ready for aging with the compounds. Also, you can put them in saw shavings moistened with the compound and then place in a vacuum bag and remove most of the air and this will be a very cool result. use to do this all the time when I was the Assistant, Prop Design Director for the Houston Grand Opera. (many moons ago LOL).
Joel, great video! I know Alex is going to be wanting to try those patinas as well. Definitely will get better results from 3d printed parts and patina if you sand or brush the material first. Think of it this way, there are a bunch of metal beads trapped in plastic. By brushing or sanding you are removing that very thin layer of plastic encapsulating the bead of metal to expose it and allow the metal to directly contact the patina solution. Hope that helps and look forward to further experiments.
This is really neat and definitely opens up new possibilities when finishing metal-filled 3d prints. I think one thing to try after spritzing the solution on is to use a plastic bristle brush to spread out the solution on the surface to reduce the drops. You should also try spraying different solutions on the same model to see what happens.
The blotchy finish is most likely due to the application technique. Spraying at a greater distance and with a finer mist, much like you would with paint or primer, should yield a more even result because the beads will be so small that they don't run into each other. On the same note, sanding might be more effective than a wire brush, I have also seen +Doc Stephens recommend a sand-/beadblasting chamber.
Depending on your weather, you can leave the models with patina in a Tupperware type container to oxidize. It works like a steamer. The moisture evaporating then dripping back down. It works great in a dry hot climate like I live in. Open it outdoors.
Heat helps speed up the process. Put the pieces in an enclosure with a small space heater set to low and respray or brush on more solution every hour or so. If it's hot outside you could put the pieces in a plastic container in direct sunlight and keep reapplying solution until you get the desired results. When I was doing bronze sculpture back in college we used a torch to get the metal hot to the touch then spray so the solution soaks evenly all over the piece. Careful use of a heat gun on low might be okay for these filaments and get a similar result.
Watching your videos really inspire me to get a 3d printer! I love making models out of clay and painting almost everything so i really enjoy creating things. Therefore, i hope one day i can get into 3d printing and making cool models
Sanding flat surface = Rougher/More surface area (which will include loose particulates from sanding) = more reaction :D I love that you mentioned this!
Good video. I belatedly remembered a source of weathering/patina dressing is the model railroad world. They have been doing this stuff for decades. It might be a good idea to check out some of their websites for methods, ideas, and materials.
I love seeing you try some new stuff for everyone. You definitely overbrush with the bristle. 😂 It's okay we love you because you are a regular guy pursuing his hobby rather than a perfectly polished expert. I would definitely move a small amount of patina into a smaller spray bottle for a finer mist. Do wear the face protection. A little goes a long way when you inhale these things.
Talc can be used as a thickener. It shouldn't react with the acid, but it might be partially soluble in it. the problem is that the polymer is hydrophobic and is poorly wetting. As Doc Stevens suggests try lightly sandblasting or vapor blasting the models to expose the metals and roughen the surface to improve wetting.
Thanks for this. Always used salt vinegar or ammonia but the results are fairly unpredictable. Painting these solutions on should result in nice weathering. Just got these filaments to experiment.
Such a cool episode. You could experiment with so much stuff with the Petina. Paper towel gave a much better result! Please try like a small Iron Super Mario but submerged in the Petina. Or a larger Brass Buda with a good Saturated paper towel all around the nooks and crannies to get like a purposed degraded look. :) Thank you so much Joel. Your videos are so informative and entertaining. Thinking seriously on getting into 3d printing. Thank you again. Hi5
Haven't tuned in for a while now, but wow I really like the new format. Great Job, Joel! Very professional, could easily see this on television on a DIY channel. Keep it up!
I'd suggest using a brush with these small parts. The beads look kinda artificial (...) and I think it could look better if you'd apply it in small cracks and details more "wisely", patina-ing à la Adam Savage so to speak :P Oh and yeah, you might also scuff up some edges even more with the sandpaper, that could look amazing. The idea with gumming the stuff up is really good! What would you think about corn starch or straight flour? You'd need something floury but not reactive, as you pointed out. I'm really keen on new experiments with that stuff!
the wrapped japanese brown tardis stood out the best IMO because it smeared the solution instead of just gathering and making spotted dots all over. So yeah the japanese brown tardis looks awesome
Oxidized Good buddy! #HighFive! Another great video Joel! Love watching people experiment in new ways, with stuff they use everyday. Always interesting!
Suggestion Joel. Try scotch bright pads (available from paint stores, etc.) - particularly the red ones that have small metal flakes for abrasion. They even have some available for Dremel rotary tools. you might be able to highlight some areas more than others also. SO many possibilities! Thanks!
Love your videos! I found this one really interesting especially. I am looking forward to trying the metal based filaments in the future for some of my prints and want to get similar results. Thanks!
Perhaps worth trying to buff the surface using 00 wire wool you must do this to bring metal particles to the serface as it’s the process used when applying the patina to a cold cast resin casting, it’s also possible to brush the patina fluids onto the models, fantastic job nonetheless 😜👍
Joel - try polishing the model before adding the patina. Perhaps you could use a Dremel with a polishing compound and a polishing cone or felt/cloth polishing wheel. Then I think the patina would mainly affect the nooks and crannies of the model and not the whole thing; might be very cool.
I use a similar product on polymer clay with metallic paints. I find that if you keep the "solution" wet that it works better and you get a deeper reaction, less spotting and more like with the Japanese brown you used. The product I use is by Christie Friesen and she has some great videos explaining the reactions of the various oxidizers. Love your videos
I think it is worth mentioning that you have to pay attention to the typ of filter in your respirator and to the type of gloves you use, since chemical compounds can react in unexpected ways. Asknig the manufacturer about appropriate personal protection is highly recommended. In addition, gloves are only offering protection for a limited amount of time, even if they are the appropriate type.
Very interesting video. I'm a stained glass artist and have done patina work for years. But just getting started working with Proto-Pasta metal filaments and attempting Sculpt-Nouveau use on them. Interested to know if you've done any more testing or applied any of this on actual prints? And if you've learned anything more about how to use these techniques more effectively on Proto-Pasta filaments? And do you have anything to share on how the results have held up over the years? Did the patina stay as applied, get worse, better? Did you end up applying any Clear Coat to any models? If so, how did that work? And how has that held up? Did you experiment more with the best ways to use the black wax to highlight edges? They also make a gelling compound that you can use that helps to gel the finishes which keeps it attached to the model and doesn't allow it puddle along the bottom like you had happen. Would be interesting to see you have a go with that. Also interested in learning if you've played with doing more surface-prep to expose more metal for the reactions. Things like more sanding, more wire brushing, dremmel use (different bit types), tumbler use (amount of time, medium, etc.), etc.. Would like to see the best ways to help reduce layer lines prior to post work (i.e. would more prepping help reduce layer line visibility?, what about printing at smaller layer heights for more detailed prints to start with?). Such a plethora of post-processing options with these metal filled filaments that can lead to some outstanding results! Also, did you ever do anything with the other Sculpt-Nouveau products that you said were for a later video? Really wish you would spend more time on post-processing videos. Appreciate any additional info you can share. MIGHT BE TIME FOR AN UPDATE ON THIS TOPIC! Thanks.
Instead of baking soda, you can use flour. I've mixed flour with vinegar to help remove rust off of big pieces before. It's definitely weaker, but it successfully gets you a working acidic putty.
I suggest spraying the models with either and alcohol or soap solution first, then use the chemical patina while they are still wet. Also, rather than wrapping in tissue, put the models in a container with a bowl of hot water and put on a loosely fitting lid. The hot water vapour will help keep the models damp for longer and therefore allow more patina to develop before the chemicals dry.
I did the same experiments with metal fileld filaments from aprintapro, same effect, you can use malic acid on bronce/copper for Blueish patina and citric acid for a true green finish, but these take more time to develop than the comercialy available solutions. I us this technique to rust and age RC Car bodies
When I was an art student one of our go-to things for a patinating bronze was dirty cat litter. Would bury the piece in a bucket of the stuff for a couple of days to weeks.
You should do another video testing different surface prep and application methods. This patina solution has some really interesting potential. Maybe get Punished Props on again to help out. I'd watch that video.
According to the Sculpt-Nouveau docs the Japanese Brown will work on Copper, Brass, Bronze, Iron or Steel. When used cold on Copper, Brass or Bronze it will give a Golden Brown finish. When used cold on Iron or Steel a Brown Rust will form. The multitude of possible finishes with the SN products are simply amazing and you can layer them to get several different looks on a single model!
I’d like to see what happens if you polish those prints with polishing compound, how shiny would they get. I would assume the concentration of metal particles would make it kind of glittery
It would be a good idea to to send that company some of those 3-D prints to experiment on sense they made the solution they could probly give you some good ideas of ways to use it with 3-D print.
Reading the Sculpt Nouveau website, hot solution gives a different effect than cold. So a hot solution experiment would be interesting. Also I saw metal coatings on their website. It would be interesting to see how this coatings worked with an all PLA (or acetone smoothed ABS) model.
This video is kind of old, and the responses are kind of old, but it showed up in my feed. You need an additive to your spray-able liquids that would make them stick to the smooth surface of the plastic material. To prevent the liquid from just beading up, you kind of mentioned toward the end of the video. If your material is "infused" with metallics, then there should be no need to scuff them up because the metal is already at the surface and within. I think the term is called a surfactant, but I'm not sure. In order to get a more uniform coverage, instead of just water droplets, you need something that is going to counter-act the slickness of the material that you are spraying on to. It would be interesting to know the results of the sprayed liquids (with and without an additive for stickiness) without using a wire brush. Using a wire brush, I believe, skewed your results because you introduced additional inconsistencies onto the surface of your extruded material. I have watched many of your videos to simply learn about 3D printing, however, I will likely never own a 3D printer because my everyday life has little justification for one. Thanks for Posting!
A small amount of detergent mixed into the patina solution would “wet” the water, reducing surface tension and the resulting beading. Isopropyl alcohol sprayed onto the plastic first might also help.
You have to consider that a lot of detergents are basic so it might foam and also neutralize the acids used in the solution. Then again, a small amount of detergent should go a long way so it might be worth experimenting with.
You'd be better off with a different surfactant. Isopropanol or ethanol might work. Depends on their reactions with the specific acids used. Also it might be better to make a gel via gelatin or possibly a silicate compound, apply that, and then wipe it off after some time.
Sculpt Nouveau should be able to advise, but i think the suggestion of thickening it with xanthan gum and applying it with a brush is a good one. A surfactant was my first thought, but I am unsure what surfactant might be compatible with the acid.
Just a heads up baking soda is an alkaline and if you mix it with those acid based liquids. You will just naturalize the acid and it will not work anymore.
You mentioned washes, I also wonder if applying the acids with a brush might allow a different look for the finish. Allow more control in the application.
Instead of baking soda you could try corn starch! It could react less but thicken the solution. Or you could even try Xanthan gum which shouldn't react.
Use a drop of dish soap in the solution to lower the surface tension. This should help the "wetting" properties of the solution without changing the Ph. You should then get a more even coating of solution to lay on your printed parts. Let us know if it works and I'll be buying some of their solutions. Very cool effect for weathering.
Idea: maybe mix a little bit of soap in the liquid. This will break the surface tension of the liquid droplets and maybe provide a more even coat. But I am digging the patchy look however. Nice job
@Wade Wilson modern soap is not necessarily very basic. old soap is though. Even though, there is very little soap needed to already achieve the desired effect, 10 - 100ppm is just fine to break the tension enough, after that the soap is in excess and will form aggregates and facilitates bubbles and stuff we don't want.
It occurred to me last night that these metallic and/or conductive filaments might electroplate really well. I did a quick search here on youtube and all I found were a few people plating standard PLA by coating the print in a powder first. If those filaments do plate well and the plating can hold up over time, then making things like replacement trim on a vintage car is suddenly a lot more accessible to people.
Hi!!!!! I have been saving up for like a year and a half to get the CR-10... still dont have quite enough, but when I do get enough, I wanted to also save up enough for upgrades. So I can get everything at once. Can you make a detailed video on this subject? I want to know the latest, most practical upgrades currently. Also, if you can show in depth how to install them, how much they cost, links to buy them, and maybe a tutorial on how to make the printer even bigger maybe. I dont know if this is possible. I know you are busy and make a bunch of videos already. I would truly appreciate it if you did. Assuming you even see this message among your trillions of other messages. :) Either way, keep up the fantastic work, thank you for your videos, and have a fantastic rest of your year.
Cool. I've been wondering about exactly this. I have barely started using my 3D printer, but I do patinas on metal every day. Mostly hot, so they won't work directly, but there are a lot of possibilities in cold patinas if you don't mind stronger, more corrosive chemicals. Look for books on Patinas if you want to mix your own rather than buying premixed from Sculpt-Nouveau.
I wonder if you can add a flow improver to keep is from being so dotted. Maybe some jet dry, acrylic air brush flow compoun, or even a touch of dish soap would help this solution more of a wash than an obvious spray bottle spray. Down side it might show off the print lines.
I wonder if you take some polyester jelly, and mix it with that patina solution if that would work, i know we used that stuff as a thickener for gel-coat for boats
This whole video I was thinking about how useful and even better of an effect you would have by using something similar to the polysher (making sure the plastics and any steel in the mechanism won't react with the acid ) the fine mist would create an even coating, with maybe some pile-up in places you would see naturally occurring in real life, therefore an amazingly realistic patina. Of course the direction of the spray would have to be controlled to acheive the most realistic patina possible. Oh and by the way, some of those patinas most probably require pretty dangerous acids, so long sleeves (maybe even a lab coat?) actual safety glasses (even a little drop in the eyes would be REALLY painful and could affect your vision permanently) and like another comment I saw, don't touch the copper or brass salts that are created barehanded, they are toxic, and too much of an exposure, or accidental ingestion from cross-contaminating foods could make you sick. The vapor you saw might of just been some released hydrogen/ oxygen gas, but take precautions by learning the chemical outcomes of what you're using. Anyways, sorry to pester you with advice like this, it's just that safety should be a priority and knowledge is safety.
Hi - great Video again i use Xanthan to thicken my homemade rim cleaner thats also acidic Its cheap an you ll need about 1/4 teaspoon for a whole bottle. Depending on how much you add its still sprayable. but would suggest add more and use a brush. Just be patient mixing it - all clumbs go away if you stirr it long enough - my cleaner takes about 10 minutes and is very jelly - sticks so well on the rims. another advantage is it wont seperate in the solution so you can store it literally for ever
to get patina look, on new parts, one should make the base layer in a root* color(if making an old house model, red brick-like) then applying washes*(overlays made from colors that would cover the entity in real life, like moss, sooth, ash, etc...)
I have had great success oxidizing copper by soaking a plastic bag full of sawdust with solution and dropping the piece in for a night or two. Nice even patina,
I wonder what effect submerging the part in a bath of the spray would have. While I do not think that submerging the part for the full time would be a good idea, but perhaps submerging would allow the whole piece to get a base of patina that could be built upon and provide a more even look, like you achieved in your previous video. I imagine it would end up looking more like the statue of liberty (in New York) then looking like it was splattered, which is not a bad look. After removing from the bath allowing the part to just drip dry. Also, It would be interesting to learn more about the material properties of the "metal" filaments, ie how much is plastic and how much is the metal. As I am sure this will effect the outcome of this aging process. This may need to be a thing I research more. Radnom - Perhaps a multi material print using a normal none metallic material for the inside and the shell being a higher percentage metal filament would be weaker, but provide a better aging shell.
Try this again, with scuffing the surface with the brush a little more vigorously, thoroughly saturating the model, then place it inside an air tight container. Results will boost.
One trick I used to use on models was to take a #0000 steel wool pad spray with water, let is dry out naturally and rust and then roll it in my hand after it rusts to then rub the iron oxide (ish) rust onto the model. Sometimes I would shake or crush the pad OVER THE spots on the model I wanted the rust to settle into the seams then lightly blow it off then seal the rust in.
I know this may be off topic. Is it possible to print multiple ,identical parts,on the build surface at the same time? Or is 3d printing a one at a time,print in the middle of the plate condition? Can prints be done on different areas of the build plate to even out wear in the rail and roller guides?
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Buy (or obtain access to) a small, used sandblasting or beadblasting cabinet. Set it up outdoors or in a well-ventilated garage. Lightly beadblast a model. Use compressed air to drive off the blasting media. Spray a patina solution on the model, preferably in a fine mist. Seal the model in a plastic container, so that the surface of the model is not touched by it. This prevents the solution from simply drying. Unseal and check the model every two hours, until the model presents the desired effect. Do not add detergent (which is a strong base) to patina solutions (which are mild acids). If you want to thicken the solution, experiment with Jell-O or other similar glycerine powder.
You will be amazed at the difference in the finish, as opposed to using a wire brush. Your models will look as weathered as you like. Sand or glass bead media will reach places that a brush never could, and you can easily control how lightly or heavily the blasting affects the surface. Enjoy.
-Doc
That is quite a crazy amount of work and money for a very minor effect you could just get with paint.
I think if done right on the right model the results would look amazing. I think Joel's basically liked like plastic with some paint splattered on it. He really needed to expose the base metal out of the plastic.
If it was just metal I would agree. The problem here is its mostly plastic. I think getting the desired effect with a sand blaster would be tricky without destroying the model or at the very least damaging small details.
Thanks for the tip! As I have a bead-blaster loaded with super fine silica at the shop, I'll have to try this! I've just never printed with a metal-fill yet since I've only bought bronze nozzles. Next purchase I'll try it out.
A Rock tumbler or such could also work. One of them Donut Deburing deals that vibrates. Fairly cheap at harbor freight and easy to set up and use.
As a blacksmith I have used a LOT of their products. GREAT stuff! If you plan a little, look at real metal and how it ages then mix those colors and in those amounts on the project. You can get a result that looks like the actual metal many many years old. It comes down to surface prep and how much you use of the colors, a light dusting is better than dripping wet. The thicker the coating the more the reaction. On the TARDIS models you sprayed heavy and it collected at the horizontal places thus more reaction. You are right about surface tension and the droplets causing more reaction. The wax is for layers of color, I have used up to 15 colors on work. Think of wear patterns also as you work.
AMAZING advice! Thank you!
Months late to this video, but as a coatings engineer, oxidizing metals is one of the things I do for a living. It was encouraging to watch you taking notes and working through this process. We only know what we know, so even though times in the video made me cringe, it was enjoyable. I have a product that can oxidize brass to a dark brown in about 3 minutes. I also have done some brass PLA printing but never thought to mix these two items. Printing being my hobby while the oxidation is my job. You have inspired me to do some experimenting. Thank you!
The 'patches' were most likely caused by being slightly too close with the spray nozzle, need to give the solution a chance to be dispersed into a fine mist (some spray bottles you can twist the nozzle to control if you want a stream or a mist), but as well you could brush the model with the solution to evenly coat the solution.
From my (limited) experience with these sorts of solutions on metal infill parts, the problem is that even if you get an even layer initially, the solution will form into droplets on the surface over time. Roughing up the surface helps a bit, but you're better off submerging the model in solution or wrapping it in saturated paper towels to ensure an even coating. Or you can just spray the model down multiple times.
OH! crap. I'll have to try again!
The paper wrapped stuff came out really well. The backing soda experiment sounds cool.
Sandblasting may reduce details, However, if you use the crushed walnut shell for the blasting media it will do great without taking away the details. It is used in finely detailed blasting but won't damage soft materials. thus presto ready for aging with the compounds. Also, you can put them in saw shavings moistened with the compound and then place in a vacuum bag and remove most of the air and this will be a very cool result. use to do this all the time when I was the Assistant, Prop Design Director for the Houston Grand Opera. (many moons ago LOL).
Joel, great video! I know Alex is going to be wanting to try those patinas as well. Definitely will get better results from 3d printed parts and patina if you sand or brush the material first. Think of it this way, there are a bunch of metal beads trapped in plastic. By brushing or sanding you are removing that very thin layer of plastic encapsulating the bead of metal to expose it and allow the metal to directly contact the patina solution. Hope that helps and look forward to further experiments.
This is really neat and definitely opens up new possibilities when finishing metal-filled 3d prints.
I think one thing to try after spritzing the solution on is to use a plastic bristle brush to spread out the solution on the surface to reduce the drops. You should also try spraying different solutions on the same model to see what happens.
Love the iron wrapped in a paper towel. It fits the scale of the tower models better than the spray method. Great vid, saved me time/money. 👍
With a little acrylic paint and some time the twisted tower model could look stunning. Might have to give that a go! Awesome video, love it!
That was awesome, Joel. Lots of good ideas.
The blotchy finish is most likely due to the application technique. Spraying at a greater distance and with a finer mist, much like you would with paint or primer, should yield a more even result because the beads will be so small that they don't run into each other. On the same note, sanding might be more effective than a wire brush, I have also seen +Doc Stephens recommend a sand-/beadblasting chamber.
Depending on your weather, you can leave the models with patina in a Tupperware type container to oxidize. It works like a steamer. The moisture evaporating then dripping back down. It works great in a dry hot climate like I live in. Open it outdoors.
all the proto pasta metal filaments are like butter :D
Heat helps speed up the process. Put the pieces in an enclosure with a small space heater set to low and respray or brush on more solution every hour or so. If it's hot outside you could put the pieces in a plastic container in direct sunlight and keep reapplying solution until you get the desired results. When I was doing bronze sculpture back in college we used a torch to get the metal hot to the touch then spray so the solution soaks evenly all over the piece. Careful use of a heat gun on low might be okay for these filaments and get a similar result.
Watching your videos really inspire me to get a 3d printer! I love making models out of clay and painting almost everything so i really enjoy creating things. Therefore, i hope one day i can get into 3d printing and making cool models
Sanding flat surface = Rougher/More surface area (which will include loose particulates from sanding) = more reaction :D I love that you mentioned this!
I have had some good results with the proto pasta stainless steel. I used a small stone to polish it and make the steel show up well.
I loved the middle square tower the best. Great ideas Joel!
Thank you!
just had a thought that these would be really cool to see in the polymaker polysher, atomise the liquids for an even distribution
Good video. I belatedly remembered a source of weathering/patina dressing is the model railroad world. They have been doing this stuff for decades. It might be a good idea to check out some of their websites for methods, ideas, and materials.
You NEED to try again with a tiny brush, adding patina in specific places as a very thin layer
I love seeing you try some new stuff for everyone.
You definitely overbrush with the bristle. 😂 It's okay we love you because you are a regular guy pursuing his hobby rather than a perfectly polished expert. I would definitely move a small amount of patina into a smaller spray bottle for a finer mist.
Do wear the face protection. A little goes a long way when you inhale these things.
Talc can be used as a thickener. It shouldn't react with the acid, but it might be partially soluble in it. the problem is that the polymer is hydrophobic and is poorly wetting. As Doc Stevens suggests try lightly sandblasting or vapor blasting the models to expose the metals and roughen the surface to improve wetting.
Thanks for this. Always used salt vinegar or ammonia but the results are fairly unpredictable. Painting these solutions on should result in nice weathering. Just got these filaments to experiment.
Such a cool episode. You could experiment with so much stuff with the Petina. Paper towel gave a much better result!
Please try like a small Iron Super Mario but submerged in the Petina. Or a larger Brass Buda with a good Saturated paper towel all around the nooks and crannies to get like a purposed degraded look. :)
Thank you so much Joel. Your videos are so informative and entertaining. Thinking seriously on getting into 3d printing. Thank you again. Hi5
Light green on that last tower was the absolute best!
I think the iron TARDIS had the coolest result.
Good idea. Quality content. Thumbs up!
Haven't tuned in for a while now, but wow I really like the new format. Great Job, Joel! Very professional, could easily see this on television on a DIY channel. Keep it up!
I'd suggest using a brush with these small parts. The beads look kinda artificial (...) and I think it could look better if you'd apply it in small cracks and details more "wisely", patina-ing à la Adam Savage so to speak :P
Oh and yeah, you might also scuff up some edges even more with the sandpaper, that could look amazing.
The idea with gumming the stuff up is really good! What would you think about corn starch or straight flour? You'd need something floury but not reactive, as you pointed out.
I'm really keen on new experiments with that stuff!
The citadel are an amazing choice by the way. Great job!
17:00 That excited happy to experiment Joel that we all love
That's a Funky Cold Patina!
the wrapped japanese brown tardis stood out the best IMO because it smeared the solution instead of just gathering and making spotted dots all over. So yeah the japanese brown tardis looks awesome
Oxidized Good buddy! #HighFive! Another great video Joel! Love watching people experiment in new ways, with stuff they use everyday. Always interesting!
Suggestion Joel. Try scotch bright pads (available from paint stores, etc.) - particularly the red ones that have small metal flakes for abrasion. They even have some available for Dremel rotary tools. you might be able to highlight some areas more than others also. SO many possibilities!
Thanks!
Love your videos! I found this one really interesting especially. I am looking forward to trying the metal based filaments in the future for some of my prints and want to get similar results. Thanks!
Awesome of Sculpt Nouveau to let you showcase thier cool line of products! Great video as always ;)
Perhaps worth trying to buff the surface using 00 wire wool you must do this to bring metal particles to the serface as it’s the process used when applying the patina to a cold cast resin casting, it’s also possible to brush the patina fluids onto the models, fantastic job nonetheless 😜👍
Love those videos. I cant say how much i love them. Ultra mega hyper great job Joel! Keep doeing like this, hope youre fine, Danny from Italy.
Joel - try polishing the model before adding the patina. Perhaps you could use a Dremel with a polishing compound and a polishing cone or felt/cloth polishing wheel. Then I think the patina would mainly affect the nooks and crannies of the model and not the whole thing; might be very cool.
I use a similar product on polymer clay with metallic paints. I find that if you keep the "solution" wet that it works better and you get a deeper reaction, less spotting and more like with the Japanese brown you used. The product I use is by Christie Friesen and she has some great videos explaining the reactions of the various oxidizers. Love your videos
I think you could get the best effect using a brush and applying the solution like you would a wash when doing weathering with paint.
I think it is worth mentioning that you have to pay attention to the typ of filter in your respirator and to the type of gloves you use, since chemical compounds can react in unexpected ways. Asknig the manufacturer about appropriate personal protection is highly recommended.
In addition, gloves are only offering protection for a limited amount of time, even if they are the appropriate type.
Very interesting video. I'm a stained glass artist and have done patina work for years. But just getting started working with Proto-Pasta metal filaments and attempting Sculpt-Nouveau use on them. Interested to know if you've done any more testing or applied any of this on actual prints? And if you've learned anything more about how to use these techniques more effectively on Proto-Pasta filaments? And do you have anything to share on how the results have held up over the years? Did the patina stay as applied, get worse, better? Did you end up applying any Clear Coat to any models? If so, how did that work? And how has that held up? Did you experiment more with the best ways to use the black wax to highlight edges? They also make a gelling compound that you can use that helps to gel the finishes which keeps it attached to the model and doesn't allow it puddle along the bottom like you had happen. Would be interesting to see you have a go with that. Also interested in learning if you've played with doing more surface-prep to expose more metal for the reactions. Things like more sanding, more wire brushing, dremmel use (different bit types), tumbler use (amount of time, medium, etc.), etc.. Would like to see the best ways to help reduce layer lines prior to post work (i.e. would more prepping help reduce layer line visibility?, what about printing at smaller layer heights for more detailed prints to start with?). Such a plethora of post-processing options with these metal filled filaments that can lead to some outstanding results! Also, did you ever do anything with the other Sculpt-Nouveau products that you said were for a later video? Really wish you would spend more time on post-processing videos. Appreciate any additional info you can share. MIGHT BE TIME FOR AN UPDATE ON THIS TOPIC! Thanks.
I really like the black wax.
Instead of baking soda, you can use flour. I've mixed flour with vinegar to help remove rust off of big pieces before. It's definitely weaker, but it successfully gets you a working acidic putty.
Mix a little dawn soap in the spray oxidizer. Dawn soap lowers the tension in the skin surface of the water.
I suggest spraying the models with either and alcohol or soap solution first, then use the chemical patina while they are still wet. Also, rather than wrapping in tissue, put the models in a container with a bowl of hot water and put on a loosely fitting lid. The hot water vapour will help keep the models damp for longer and therefore allow more patina to develop before the chemicals dry.
This would be fantastic for adding effects to tabletop terrain
I did the same experiments with metal fileld filaments from aprintapro, same effect, you can use malic acid on bronce/copper for Blueish patina and citric acid for a true green finish, but these take more time to develop than the comercialy available solutions. I us this technique to rust and age RC Car bodies
When I was an art student one of our go-to things for a patinating bronze was dirty cat litter. Would bury the piece in a bucket of the stuff for a couple of days to weeks.
You should do another video testing different surface prep and application methods. This patina solution has some really interesting potential. Maybe get Punished Props on again to help out. I'd watch that video.
Lol "Japanese Brown for iron or steel" later that video "I thought the Japanese Brown was made for brass?"
According to the Sculpt-Nouveau docs the Japanese Brown will work on Copper, Brass, Bronze, Iron or Steel. When used cold on Copper, Brass or Bronze it will give a Golden Brown finish. When used cold on Iron or Steel a Brown Rust will form. The multitude of possible finishes with the SN products are simply amazing and you can layer them to get several different looks on a single model!
I’d like to see what happens if you polish those prints with polishing compound, how shiny would they get. I would assume the concentration of metal particles would make it kind of glittery
Joel, as always this was awesome ! Thanks for this!
It would be a good idea to to send that company some of those 3-D prints to experiment on sense they made the solution they could probly give you some good ideas of ways to use it with 3-D print.
Reading the Sculpt Nouveau website, hot solution gives a different effect than cold. So a hot solution experiment would be interesting. Also I saw metal coatings on their website. It would be interesting to see how this coatings worked with an all PLA (or acetone smoothed ABS) model.
That blue looks great on you Joel! :)
This video is kind of old, and the responses are kind of old, but it showed up in my feed. You need an additive to your spray-able liquids that would make them stick to the smooth surface of the plastic material. To prevent the liquid from just beading up, you kind of mentioned toward the end of the video. If your material is "infused" with metallics, then there should be no need to scuff them up because the metal is already at the surface and within.
I think the term is called a surfactant, but I'm not sure. In order to get a more uniform coverage, instead of just water droplets, you need something that is going to counter-act the slickness of the material that you are spraying on to.
It would be interesting to know the results of the sprayed liquids (with and without an additive for stickiness) without using a wire brush. Using a wire brush, I believe, skewed your results because you introduced additional inconsistencies onto the surface of your extruded material.
I have watched many of your videos to simply learn about 3D printing, however, I will likely never own a 3D printer because my everyday life has little justification for one.
Thanks for Posting!
A small amount of detergent mixed into the patina solution would “wet” the water, reducing surface tension and the resulting beading. Isopropyl alcohol sprayed onto the plastic first might also help.
That's was what I was thinking to break the beading.
You have to consider that a lot of detergents are basic so it might foam and also neutralize the acids used in the solution. Then again, a small amount of detergent should go a long way so it might be worth experimenting with.
You'd be better off with a different surfactant. Isopropanol or ethanol might work. Depends on their reactions with the specific acids used.
Also it might be better to make a gel via gelatin or possibly a silicate compound, apply that, and then wipe it off after some time.
ooh, interesting. thank you for the tip!
Maybe Baby shampoo
Sculpt Nouveau should be able to advise, but i think the suggestion of thickening it with xanthan gum and applying it with a brush is a good one. A surfactant was my first thought, but I am unsure what surfactant might be compatible with the acid.
Love the tardises/tardii! Guar gum can be used as a thickener for acid dyes on fiber. Maybe that would work as a thickener with your solution?
Just a heads up baking soda is an alkaline and if you mix it with those acid based liquids. You will just naturalize the acid and it will not work anymore.
You mentioned washes, I also wonder if applying the acids with a brush might allow a different look for the finish. Allow more control in the application.
I do acid etching on concrete, you may want to use a paintbrush on those and see how it turns out, may take a seconde coat later.
Instead of baking soda you could try corn starch! It could react less but thicken the solution. Or you could even try Xanthan gum which shouldn't react.
Use a drop of dish soap in the solution to lower the surface tension. This should help the "wetting" properties of the solution without changing the Ph. You should then get a more even coating of solution to lay on your printed parts. Let us know if it works and I'll be buying some of their solutions. Very cool effect for weathering.
Idea: maybe mix a little bit of soap in the liquid. This will break the surface tension of the liquid droplets and maybe provide a more even coat.
But I am digging the patchy look however. Nice job
@Wade Wilson modern soap is not necessarily very basic. old soap is though. Even though, there is very little soap needed to already achieve the desired effect, 10 - 100ppm is just fine to break the tension enough, after that the soap is in excess and will form aggregates and facilitates bubbles and stuff we don't want.
It occurred to me last night that these metallic and/or conductive filaments might electroplate really well. I did a quick search here on youtube and all I found were a few people plating standard PLA by coating the print in a powder first. If those filaments do plate well and the plating can hold up over time, then making things like replacement trim on a vintage car is suddenly a lot more accessible to people.
Thanks for sharing😀👍
Your definition segments kept turning on my Google Home Mini and kept repeating what your video was saying. Thanks for that Mr. THE Nerd.
Hi!!!!! I have been saving up for like a year and a half to get the CR-10... still dont have quite enough, but when I do get enough, I wanted to also save up enough for upgrades. So I can get everything at once. Can you make a detailed video on this subject? I want to know the latest, most practical upgrades currently. Also, if you can show in depth how to install them, how much they cost, links to buy them, and maybe a tutorial on how to make the printer even bigger maybe. I dont know if this is possible. I know you are busy and make a bunch of videos already. I would truly appreciate it if you did. Assuming you even see this message among your trillions of other messages. :) Either way, keep up the fantastic work, thank you for your videos, and have a fantastic rest of your year.
Cool. I've been wondering about exactly this. I have barely started using my 3D printer, but I do patinas on metal every day. Mostly hot, so they won't work directly, but there are a lot of possibilities in cold patinas if you don't mind stronger, more corrosive chemicals. Look for books on Patinas if you want to mix your own rather than buying premixed from Sculpt-Nouveau.
Great video great idea I love this
I wonder if you can add a flow improver to keep is from being so dotted. Maybe some jet dry, acrylic air brush flow compoun, or even a touch of dish soap would help this solution more of a wash than an obvious spray bottle spray. Down side it might show off the print lines.
I wonder if you take some polyester jelly, and mix it with that patina solution if that would work, i know we used that stuff as a thickener for gel-coat for boats
Good collaboration dude. High Five!
You should try metal working "pickling gel". Its highly acidic jelly type stuff, sounds like what you were talking about.
This whole video I was thinking about how useful and even better of an effect you would have by using something similar to the polysher (making sure the plastics and any steel in the mechanism won't react with the acid ) the fine mist would create an even coating, with maybe some pile-up in places you would see naturally occurring in real life, therefore an amazingly realistic patina. Of course the direction of the spray would have to be controlled to acheive the most realistic patina possible. Oh and by the way, some of those patinas most probably require pretty dangerous acids, so long sleeves (maybe even a lab coat?) actual safety glasses (even a little drop in the eyes would be REALLY painful and could affect your vision permanently) and like another comment I saw, don't touch the copper or brass salts that are created barehanded, they are toxic, and too much of an exposure, or accidental ingestion from cross-contaminating foods could make you sick. The vapor you saw might of just been some released hydrogen/ oxygen gas, but take precautions by learning the chemical outcomes of what you're using. Anyways, sorry to pester you with advice like this, it's just that safety should be a priority and knowledge is safety.
Use common vinegar on the magnetic iron prints. Additionally add salt to the vinegar to create an even stronger reaction.
Hi - great Video again
i use Xanthan to thicken my homemade rim cleaner thats also acidic
Its cheap an you ll need about 1/4 teaspoon for a whole bottle.
Depending on how much you add its still sprayable. but would suggest add more and use a brush.
Just be patient mixing it - all clumbs go away if you stirr it long enough - my cleaner takes about 10 minutes and is very jelly - sticks so well on the rims. another advantage is it wont seperate in the solution so you can store it literally for ever
I think a softer more blended result would happen if the solution was applied with a airbrush. the spray particles would be finer
The foil was being a battery. The acid with 2 metals caused the aluminum to dissolve and create electricity
Wow for true?
@@AshLordCurry yep
@@thokk10289 Cooool
No.
So, like a leyden jar effect. Interesting.
to get patina look, on new parts, one should make the base layer in a root* color(if making an old house model, red brick-like) then applying washes*(overlays made from colors that would cover the entity in real life, like moss, sooth, ash, etc...)
you should make a bronze citadel with the patina and make a landscaped base that would sit in blueish resin and a tiny tiny model shark
I have had great success oxidizing copper by soaking a plastic bag full of sawdust with solution and dropping the piece in for a night or two. Nice even patina,
I want to try that oxidization stuff to replace the turtle wax on my vehicle!
very cool stuff
Agreed!
When you said "hey Google, define patina" it activated my Google assistant 🤣
Same
Me too! Lol
Its as if its a predictable result to a coded event! How cool! Wow! Such amaze!
Great first try. Good luck in improving it.
Maybe punished props can work with you?
I wonder what effect submerging the part in a bath of the spray would have. While I do not think that submerging the part for the full time would be a good idea, but perhaps submerging would allow the whole piece to get a base of patina that could be built upon and provide a more even look, like you achieved in your previous video. I imagine it would end up looking more like the statue of liberty (in New York) then looking like it was splattered, which is not a bad look. After removing from the bath allowing the part to just drip dry.
Also, It would be interesting to learn more about the material properties of the "metal" filaments, ie how much is plastic and how much is the metal. As I am sure this will effect the outcome of this aging process. This may need to be a thing I research more.
Radnom - Perhaps a multi material print using a normal none metallic material for the inside and the shell being a higher percentage metal filament would be weaker, but provide a better aging shell.
it seems like it sticks pretty decent but next time you should try and brush the fluids onto the surface to maximize the contact area.
For art class we used vinegar and salt to patina copper
i tried this on colorfab bronzefill but could really get the effect i wanted.
"Oh these sprays contain some unknown acid" *puts aluminium foil underneath*
LPM Supporter I was thinking the same thing 😜.
Very Cool.
Try this again, with scuffing the surface with the brush a little more vigorously, thoroughly saturating the model, then place it inside an air tight container. Results will boost.
Also to thicken up the solution, it is best to use Glycerin for it It works great!
One trick I used to use on models was to take a #0000 steel wool pad spray with water, let is dry out naturally and rust and then roll it in my hand after it rusts to then rub the iron oxide (ish) rust onto the model. Sometimes I would shake or crush the pad OVER THE spots on the model I wanted the rust to settle into the seams then lightly blow it off then seal the rust in.
I know this may be off topic. Is it possible to print multiple ,identical parts,on the build surface at the same time? Or is 3d printing a one at a time,print in the middle of the plate condition? Can prints be done on different areas of the build plate to even out wear in the rail and roller guides?