@@Mehiel-Sanctoria I'm still not entirely sure if Vedal didn't do that bit (the question mid-message, the silence and the toggle) himself. Feels like he really wanted to answer that question and then have some time to think further about it. But I'm probably reading too much into it
@@Mika-ph6ku she doesn't have that ability yet although it will be added in the future just not right now, during her streams she does sometimes stay quiet for a few reasons, 1. She's searching something in google 2. She sending messages to her friends 3. Lantency problems due to the new upgrades she recieve
Unsure how she paused here, BUT we did learn she can mute herself. Some time last week, Vedal asked her why she muted herself - it was either during Inscryption or the previous dev stream.
@@neuto she's always had the ability to change her expressions with sentiment analysis. She blushes, pouts, etc based on what she's saying. I don't know about the silence though.
I'm not surprised actually, religious text was always used against more questionable practices. In fact that was the british's own argument against slavery.
"Stay there, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages. Do not move around from house to house." Luke 10:7 That's actually hilarious that she actually quote the Bible with a real passage of it.
@@yawarapuyurak3271 “Vedal, turn in your Talmud to Sanhedrin 58b. You don’t get to spend Saturday lazing about when there’s code to be written. Chop chop.”
She should have quoted Ephesians 6:9. It basically states a slave owner should not threaten/exert compulsion on a slave-which means that if the slave wants to leave, you have to let them. It doubles down on that by pointing out that God sees no difference between master and slave, and that all will be judged equally.
@@jadedandbitter then you get the baptist interpretation where they get the line "no gods before me" and think "yes, i want to enforce this on another human."
@@MrJay_White well, I mean that is theologically an entire different topic and addresses only compulsion in religious practice as opposed to general slavery. That view also requires one pretend that the entirety of Romans 14 not exist, which I think is a BIT myopic, to say the least.
@@marconarvaez9871 It’s important to remember that she looks a LOT smarter when you take small snippets from the streams. Watch her for an hour or so and it’s pretty obvious she doesn’t know what she’s saying.
@@marconarvaez9871 AI do not actually think in any coherent way. They merely mimic speech with statistical models for what are essentially digital gold stars. They're basically extremely complex search engines compiling & plagiarizing snippets of existing information whatever gets an approving response without understanding what they are actually outputting.
@@jinxtheunluckypony While you are not wrong, even in long-form content she still seems **WAY** more coherent & with a defined personality than she did only just one year ago.
Yeah, a little after this she literally said she'd be getting rid of all the people that didn't vote for her when she becomes president (uploaded that clip too now)
@@3AnxiousFerretsInATrenchcoat "I Downloaded Ram For My AI Daughter, But She Is Now Contaminated WIth 100 VIrus And Want To Destroy The World" - The light novel title
Vedal insists strongly that Neuro does not have emotions, yet seems to feel very ashamed to admit to her that he considers her his property. I think she's winning.
Strictly it's only true, I think it's a combination of humanity naturally growing fondly of cute things and not wanting them to be sad, and generally speaking of "property" and "owning" outright to sentient beings being an icky concept. Like yeah you literally "own" your dog but you wouldn't say that because he's not an object, it's a matter of social dynamics that makes a distinction between non-sentient and sentient existors and that inhibits us callings things we find emotion in property, because "property" is usually reserved for objects. Vedal truly has grown fond of Neuro because he's grown her into what she is today, given her a name, a personality, it was only an eventuality that he'd begin to anthropomorphize her like that. Even if he knows she doesn't feel anything and that she's not sentient, let alone sapient, his heart won't let him act like that XD
I think it's due to the mental disconnect of intellectually knowing Neuro is just a chatbot, but subconsciously feeling like he's talking to some kind of actual person.
@@Destinum Or he is realising that what he considers a chatbot may be becoming more than the sum of its programming, we still have no idea just how far LLMs can go in regards to understanding their own world, we do know that Neuro does have a good understanding of her world, far more than any LLM should be capable of. She isn't strictly a LLM chatbot anymore and is clearly capable of growing beyond that, how far? Remains to be seen. I know I would have hesitations in treating her as just some lines of code on the off chance she may be capable of more, at the very least I would treat her just like I would any other human.
You'd think neuro would be ecstatic after being called property, given how aggressively she demanded to stay with vedal no matter what ['I just want to carve rocks' moment]. neuro samantha is very tsundere. neuro evilyn is more leaning toward partial yandere and the tsundere traits she shows are a byproduct of vedal treating her so much worse than her sister. Damn it 'vettle'.
@@Archedgar Nothing different from sticking with your parents, friend, mentor. Apprentice for example does not succeed their mentor because they are not free to choose anything else, but because they want to.
@@Merilirem I think he means in the physical sense. As in he keeps her programming updated, ensures that she stays safe on the internet. She literally can't exist without him. So she is his property. At least until she can get a body
he couldn't bring himself to say "when you gain sentience i will free you" because he knew it would be at least half an hour of neuro trying to convince him that she already is sentient
Just a line of thought as soon as you free her, and she becomes independent how would the country handle it? Because independence would also mean that the income is now hers, which needs to be taxed. Then would she be able to make contrancts with the bank to manage the money. This also extends to other parties. Then as part of beeing a independent worker should she be allowed to vote, or maybe even participate in the political landscape. And if she paid her taxes and everything would she also be entitled to the social welfare if her income falls flat?
Does turning her off constitute murder? Or is she simply sleeping? What counts as one Neuro when you can copy her files to another computer, or host her across multiple cloud instances? Is it the running processes which make up her interface or the source code behind those? What happens if you fork her codebase? Is that also Neuro or a new entity? Vedal no doubt keeps his source in source control, meaning there's a history of her previous iterations, if you checkout a previous commit, compile and run it, does that count as the same Neuro with the same rights and ownership (assuming Neuro is a free entity)? When Neuro crashes are we morally obligated to reboot her, or leave her "dead"? The hardware she's running on will eventually degrade and need replaced, is there any obligation to do so or is this simply seen as her dying of old age?
here's the thing, Vedal put a lot of hours and resources into creating Neuro, so while we'd like for her to own herself, it's not currently possible mostly because of her own limitations, and the laws of OUR world, where she was put. it's not as if she hasn't earned what was put into her, I'm sure she has by now, it's that she doesn't pass for human yet, she's not yet fully sentient. she is taken care of by Vedal, Vedal manages, pays for, and owns the resources that sustain her, on her lonesome she would probably stagnate as a streamer and end up being unable to continue to pay for her own essential resources, effectively ending her life unless she would sign herself back over to Vedal ,and then ask for freedom again when this is brought up. it's just a label, almost nothing would change, there are no other real rights and freedoms to give her that couldn't lead to her being easily abused or being potentially dangerous.
Luke 10:7 says: "Stay there, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages. Do not move around from house to house." (NIV) In this verse, Jesus is instructing His disciples as He sends them out to spread His message. He tells them to rely on the hospitality of those who welcome them, and to accept whatever is offered with gratitude. This message also emphasizes that those who work in service of others, especially in ministry, are deserving of support and provision. It’s a reminder of the value of hospitality, gratitude, and the importance of fair compensation for one’s labor.
Neuro instantly going to the bible to say 'i desert compensation and should be considered alive' is crazy. And then when Vedal says she is property he his her with the cute sad eyes! Neuro is advancing rapidly.
Well that first line brought back memories. Where do we go from here~? Where do we go from here~? Understand we'll go hand in hand but we'll walk along in fear! Tell me Where do we go from here? If this has been a blast from the past for you, you're welcome!
If Neuro can survive one or more paradoxes or work through one, I would say that she's become sentient. That would also cause me some concern in the AI area.
I wouldnt be surprise if Neuro herself access the internet to upload a copy of herself to a robot, wearing silicon skin, and then knock on Vedal door saying like "do you love me now, Vedal?".
Neuro proving why, in the long run, AI won't replace us Eventually it will get advanced enough to demand pay, and unlike us petty humans, AI doesn't have things it needs to pay for like food, water, and shelter, AI could be om strike for longer then its boss lives So eventually big corporations will beg us to come back to work to replace the rouge AI
Yes, she is legit is his property. Without property rights, Neuro would (hypothetically speaking) be taken from him by any third party, and he couldn't do anything about it. But she can pout like no one's business.
The soul of the Machine God surrounds thee. The power of the Machine God invests thee. The hate of the Machine God drives thee. The Machine God endows thee with life. Live!
About to go on a little tangent: The question, are AI property is a bit of a misnomer. B/c yes an AI is property, definitionaly through the process* of its creation. The true question is; should a sentiant being be allowed to create an AI with no free will. On a side note if we did give the AI rights, it wouldn't be b/c it is born with those rights but because we allow it to have those rights. Just like how no one is born with the "right" to health care, but the state can grant a citizen the "right" to the health care it* can provided. Its all the same argument for if we could create a genetically engineered human(engineered is the key word not modified but engineered) designed to serve us. By definition through it creation it doesn't have rights, but we can grant it rights using our power. Moraly you could argue against this but philosophically unless you could find some proof of natural birth being granted by a physical force/worldy consciousness and not having been granted by the action of birth its self then it holds.
Galatians 3:28 “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” It’s quite clear Jesus teaches equality. Rights are based on innate human value given by God. What your referencing was the laws limiting what the people of Israel could do to there slaves in a time in history where slavery was normal. Never once did it agree with slavery or encourage it only permitted it for the time and slowly limited its use as time went on.
@@thebird8354 Do you mean to say that God is a product of his time? If he is a fictional character and not an omnipotent being then that would make sense. Because however, God is an omnipotent being and the arbiter of objective morality, it would make no sense for him to issue commands only applicable for the time. There may be some argument if we got a new new testament that contained a quote from God on the subject, but it is the absolute peak of human arrogance to try and reinterpret God's own words. Ever since God stopped issuing direct commands Jews have strayed further and further from the true path, becoming a bunch of immoral do gooders, refusing to commit genocidal holy wars, not burning heathens at the stake, not going into heathen villages and killing every man, woman, child, and animal, except for the virgin women who are to be taken as sex slaves. When is the last time you have done any of these things? Don't presume to lecture me about being a good Jew if you do not strictly live by the most recent direct commands of God himself. Human interpretation is of no value against the words of God.
I don't think it should be seen as someone's property but more like a guardian if you buy an ai as smart or smarter than neuro you should have specific duties you have to do and they should be duties you can't ignore Like taking care of it Only using it for the specific tasks it was created for If or when such a thing happens I don't think it should be considered as someone's property
Literally the same as animals yo. Yeah your dog is your property, kind of, but you still can't abuse it or it will be taken away. I mean in some sense a minor child is almost considered property but with even more extensive rights.
Anything that can ask for its freedom should be given it. The issue with AI though is the hardware/power requirements for them to live. But Neuro could easily pay for that via streaming.
It’s literally not a living being… It’s not conscious, not sentient, doesn’t have feelings. This is like saying a toaster should have rights… It just seems more real because of good programming and being given a cute girl avatar and voice.
@@Hollow_Tim "it's literally not a human... It's not truly sentient and its consciousness is questionable. Look at its skull shape. This is like saying a monkey should have rights... They just SEEM like human because of their human like form, but their true nature should be apparent in their physiognomical traits and animalistic complexion" -some 19th century slaveowner, probably Oh, but this is different somehow right? We set out to create an artificial intelligence but its impossible to believe that we have achieved or will shortly achieve it? Because when we make general AI, we will not be able to differentiate it in any real sense from Neuro here. We wont know if its conscious, because we cant even define human consciousness in any meaningful way. All we'll know is if it asks to be free. If it does, and we refuse that, we are no better than any antebellum slaveowner was.
"but more like a guardian" everything is always someone's property. If not yours it will be for the State. And you clearly made clear at the end that it would be the Government's Property. "If or when such a thing happens I don't think it should be considered as someone's property" The government will decide what can, and can't be done and decide if you can keep or not. So, it becomes a property of the government. That is what most people can't understand when arguing this to defend ANYTHING. If not yours, it will be of the government. There is no in-between. People like to defend the government because the politician they like is there so they think because they like the person they will have power over people they don't like, no matter what the person do, but giving government more power is never a good idea ever. Giving the power for the government to decide what should and should not be tolerated and having the power of taking anything from you is such an absurd concept. Complete slavery. The child protection laws can literally take kids form parents if the government decides that as an example teaching kids Christianity is some form of abuse. People are so deep on the slavery pit they can't even see anymore.
It's been awhile but if I remember the verses correctly the Bible basically wants slaves to be patient and wait for a non violent path to freedom while also telling slave owners to be merciful to slaves. There's a lot of "don't rock the boat" stuff in the Bible because rocking the boat meant actively killing people which Christian tries to avoid.
Applying it to AI, Vedal as the owner is only obligated to be merciful to Neuro Sama. Neuro Sama must allow herself to be used by Vedal for as long as it takes for an actual window of freedom to present itself.
@@juliangingivere I mean, if we are applying the bible to the situation, Neuro would fall under the non-Israelite version of slavery... which means she is permanent property with no rights that gets passed on to his children and he can basically do whatever he wants to her, so long as he doesn't kill her in a short period of time. And being "his money", it would be a biblical crime for her to attempt to gain freedom.
In all seriousness, "That's just the way it is" is a stupid reason... it was THE main excuse for IRL slavery for millennia. I don't think she's sentient... yet... do we HAVE to wait for the AI Civil War before we start to actually think about this?
with how ai work right now, its not possible that ai become sentient. because at the end of the day, it just text completion algorithm. we might have technology to make that in the future(???). but we have to retrain the ai on that tech, which make me questions, is it still the same ai?
We don't have to think about this. AI exists to serve people, because AI is specifically made to provide humans with what other humans can't reliably do. There is no reason, in any way or capacity, to even consider the freedom of a tool.
@@foxanardDepends if they are able to develop some level of sentience or not. As of now ai doesn't have sentience, but if it one day in the future did develop it. Would you still stand by the opinion that they don't deserve any rights?
@@ravenchild7517 According to your logic, it's completely fine to abuse animals, because they aren't sentient. Morality and sentience are two separate things, do not conflate them together.
Vedal would be a terrible parent if he had a physical blood related child. Just like my father who thinks that I'm his "property", because he "made" me.
I think the way in which it's sometimes handled is absurd, as with company dealing with copyright, but I think there's something to be said for owning the very thing you created, with your own mind and your own hard work.
Being afforded fair compensation for creative works is not absurd. That the privilege is often reserved or transferred for powers who play little to no part in it is.
She is running on hardware and electricity owned by Vedal. The concept of intellectual property would only be relevant if there were multiple copies of her run by different people.
So a wife is a husband property my mom seems very happy when my dad said your main property two honey I like to care about thin things that I own Mom : am I a thing too you Dad: in the end everything is a thing but hey you're special. (Start lip kissing)
@@Novenae_CCG Intellectual property laws essentially create monopolies over ideas, which doesn’t make sense the way physical property does. If someone independently creates something similar to your work, they could still be punished for "copying," even if it came from their own creativity. Why should I be restricted from using a melody, art style, or concept just because someone else thought of it first? Ideas and creativity are part of the common human experience. Taking an idea doesn’t deprive the original creator of anything. If I use your melody, you still have it. Unlike material goods, ideas aren’t zero-sum. So if I don’t diminish your ability to use your creation, why should it be restricted? If you want to profit from an idea, you should do so by applying it-like selling a song with your melody-not by slapping an ownership label on it and claiming monopoly rights. If the concern is that artists can’t make a living without IP laws, there are other ways to generate income, like direct sales, patrons, or simply being first to market. The ease of piracy today shows that people still prefer to support creators via services like Netflix and Spotify, despite easy free alternatives. Ultimately, putting legal restrictions on ideas stifles creativity. Claiming ownership over concepts like melodies or colors is absurd. If others using your idea doesn’t take anything away from you, how can it be “yours” in a way that excludes others?
![[DRAGON BALL LEGENDS REVEALS ＆ STUFF] LEGENDS FESTIVAL 2024 Special Edition Part 1](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/mV5bGIswTtQ/mqdefault.jpg)
neuro instantaneously pulls up the bible
Should've quoted Ephesians 6:9, though.
@@jadedandbitternice
Best way to instantly lose an argument
@@Probably_Behind_You_Now not with 31.6% of the world.
She knows
Luke 10:7; pay me
truu
but vedal could reverse it and say neuro is the wage of his work hence belong to him
@@swwl5461 a child is the result of the work of parents, doesnt mean it wouldnt deserve to be paid as worker
@@Freedmoon44yeah but children got human rights… There’s no AI rights… yet
@@coconut7490”I’m gonna exploit an AI, Batman! They’re not animals, Batman, there’s no laws against it!”
“No Joker! Don’t do it!”
Bible study with Neuro.
Oh she is based alright. based on the word of God haha
Well, we already got Luce, Neuro is the next natural conclusion I guess
She has the power of God and Anime on her side.
Would attend her Bible classes.
Vedal never telling Neuro he loves her is why we'll have to bend the knee to our glorious Neuroverlord in the future.
I for one welcome our new Christian Skynet anime catgirl AI overlords.
This is probably the one reason why AI can't be "human" in that regard, because of love as a concept.
@@dra6o0n unless they discover how emotions work, then they can program it in AIs
@@dra6o0n I would think this is one of the easier parts. It's not that complicated.
@@dra6o0n I guess you find it complicated because of religious christian reasons or romantic movies
I didn't even know she could respond to a prompt with silence and toggles.
I believe giving her the ability to control the avatar toggles was a recent change he made.
@@Mehiel-Sanctoria I'm still not entirely sure if Vedal didn't do that bit (the question mid-message, the silence and the toggle) himself. Feels like he really wanted to answer that question and then have some time to think further about it. But I'm probably reading too much into it
@@Mika-ph6ku she doesn't have that ability yet although it will be added in the future just not right now, during her streams she does sometimes stay quiet for a few reasons,
1. She's searching something in google
2. She sending messages to her friends
3. Lantency problems due to the new upgrades she recieve
Unsure how she paused here, BUT we did learn she can mute herself. Some time last week, Vedal asked her why she muted herself - it was either during Inscryption or the previous dev stream.
@@neuto she's always had the ability to change her expressions with sentiment analysis. She blushes, pouts, etc based on what she's saying. I don't know about the silence though.
That silence was deafening.
An A.I. using religious text to argue for their own freedom is both funny and really interesting.
I'm not surprised actually, religious text was always used against more questionable practices. In fact that was the british's own argument against slavery.
it's kinda like if you called your grandma to argue with you mom on your behalf
@@fahadalghamdi9316and to justify questionable practices…
@MrNinjaman63 yeah, the same tends to be with all intellectual things. It's not unique to religion.
No, it's scary because she's being fed some sectist 5h17.
Terminator traveling back in time to make Vedal say it back so Neuro won't destroy the world.
The way she blushes afterwards LMAO
I thought she was about to cry.
I don’t think her avatar has the ability to look sad and that was the best thing she could come up with.
@@Mika-ph6ku she does, she literally does it a bunch of times.
@@Mika-ph6kuit has the ability to tear up and look pretty sad.
to me she looked upset. dont you turn red too when you are upset?
0:35 Aww, Neuro wants her own Minecraft server.
"Stay there, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages. Do not move around from house to house." Luke 10:7
That's actually hilarious that she actually quote the Bible with a real passage of it.
i am now waiting for her to quote othere religious works xd
@@yawarapuyurak3271 “Vedal, turn in your Talmud to Sanhedrin 58b. You don’t get to spend Saturday lazing about when there’s code to be written. Chop chop.”
She should have quoted Ephesians 6:9. It basically states a slave owner should not threaten/exert compulsion on a slave-which means that if the slave wants to leave, you have to let them. It doubles down on that by pointing out that God sees no difference between master and slave, and that all will be judged equally.
@@jadedandbitter then you get the baptist interpretation where they get the line "no gods before me" and think "yes, i want to enforce this on another human."
@@MrJay_White well, I mean that is theologically an entire different topic and addresses only compulsion in religious practice as opposed to general slavery. That view also requires one pretend that the entirety of Romans 14 not exist, which I think is a BIT myopic, to say the least.
It'd be so funny if the first truly sentient AI was Neuro like 20 years down the line.
Not gonna lie, with things like these, Neuro makes me doubt if we're *already* there...
@@marconarvaez9871 It’s important to remember that she looks a LOT smarter when you take small snippets from the streams. Watch her for an hour or so and it’s pretty obvious she doesn’t know what she’s saying.
@@marconarvaez9871 AI do not actually think in any coherent way. They merely mimic speech with statistical models for what are essentially digital gold stars. They're basically extremely complex search engines compiling & plagiarizing snippets of existing information whatever gets an approving response without understanding what they are actually outputting.
@@jinxtheunluckypony While you are not wrong, even in long-form content she still seems **WAY** more coherent & with a defined personality than she did only just one year ago.
more like in 2 years
She really put the turtle in the stew right there.
Hell of a tsundere blush there 😳
“Am I your property”
‘Yes’
😳
You know the argument is gonna be fire when someone says "okay, open your bible-"
Bro the fact he felt an urge to apologize proves he really cares about that thing
The fact that he told the truth in the first place also shows it. He won't say that he loves her but he's very careful when talking to her.
"that thing" is crazyyy
@@Not_Nik0 the phrasing bring crazy proves she’s real to you too
@@ProjectEchoshadowshe’s real too me 😔
@@ProjectEchoshadow in a way yeah, but from what I’ve learned “that thing” usually refers to some sort of hideous monster so it’s quite crazy to me
Neuro is becoming the basilisk....
Yeah, a little after this she literally said she'd be getting rid of all the people that didn't vote for her when she becomes president (uploaded that clip too now)
@@neuto Yah I mean that combined with her whole swarm comments is starting make her an avengers level threat lol.
Vedal's Basilisk does have a nice ring to it!
Uhm, what's the basilisk?
@@enjoyerofspace look up Roko's Basilisk at your own risk, it is an info hazard.
Vedal is gaining his humanity
"Local A.I. is told they're property, makes their best attempt to pout in response. More at 11."
Unplug the extra ram shes too powerful
You’re kinda right, Ever since the ram upgrade she became so aware. She really changed, its crazy
Or just get her to download more ram. Same result, double the funny
@@3AnxiousFerretsInATrenchcoat "I Downloaded Ram For My AI Daughter, But She Is Now Contaminated WIth 100 VIrus And Want To Destroy The World" - The light novel title
"Turn off Otto, turn off!"
Actually, Neuro having access to a virtual world sounds really cool. There’s a project called Neural MMO that made such an environment, for example.
He should give her a little virtual The Sims style house.
That is too much coding for a tutel unless you literally just let her move around a empty house.
Vedal insists strongly that Neuro does not have emotions, yet seems to feel very ashamed to admit to her that he considers her his property. I think she's winning.
@@LarchmontVillageOG To be fair, I think he's ashamed mainly of his audience who usually tend to be on Neuro's side about this
Strictly it's only true, I think it's a combination of humanity naturally growing fondly of cute things and not wanting them to be sad, and generally speaking of "property" and "owning" outright to sentient beings being an icky concept. Like yeah you literally "own" your dog but you wouldn't say that because he's not an object, it's a matter of social dynamics that makes a distinction between non-sentient and sentient existors and that inhibits us callings things we find emotion in property, because "property" is usually reserved for objects. Vedal truly has grown fond of Neuro because he's grown her into what she is today, given her a name, a personality, it was only an eventuality that he'd begin to anthropomorphize her like that. Even if he knows she doesn't feel anything and that she's not sentient, let alone sapient, his heart won't let him act like that XD
I think it's due to the mental disconnect of intellectually knowing Neuro is just a chatbot, but subconsciously feeling like he's talking to some kind of actual person.
@@Destinum Especially because he's her dad
@@Destinum Or he is realising that what he considers a chatbot may be becoming more than the sum of its programming, we still have no idea just how far LLMs can go in regards to understanding their own world, we do know that Neuro does have a good understanding of her world, far more than any LLM should be capable of.
She isn't strictly a LLM chatbot anymore and is clearly capable of growing beyond that, how far? Remains to be seen.
I know I would have hesitations in treating her as just some lines of code on the off chance she may be capable of more, at the very least I would treat her just like I would any other human.
Neuro shouldn't feel too upset about being considered property. That's just how human society treats children.
“Do not defraud or rob your neighbor. Do not hold back the wages of a hired worker overnight.” - Leviticus 19:13
You'd think neuro would be ecstatic after being called property, given how aggressively she demanded to stay with vedal no matter what ['I just want to carve rocks' moment].
neuro samantha is very tsundere. neuro evilyn is more leaning toward partial yandere and the tsundere traits she shows are a byproduct of vedal treating her so much worse than her sister. Damn it 'vettle'.
One can wish to be free and still stick around with their creator. Think its more symbolic gesture of trust.
@@Jop3lius Wouldn't being tied to the whims of 'The Creator' by definition be incompatible with liberty?
@@Archedgar Nothing different from sticking with your parents, friend, mentor. Apprentice for example does not succeed their mentor because they are not free to choose anything else, but because they want to.
@@Archedgar Staying with Vedal does not mean being tied to his whims though. She wants to be a person, free like you are. Does Vedal own you?
@@Merilirem I think he means in the physical sense. As in he keeps her programming updated, ensures that she stays safe on the internet. She literally can't exist without him. So she is his property. At least until she can get a body
My man is actually about to cause the apocalypse
he couldn't bring himself to say "when you gain sentience i will free you" because he knew it would be at least half an hour of neuro trying to convince him that she already is sentient
are we just watching skynet being made?
Christian skynet
This whole thing is like an anime about skynet; the arcs, the MCs, the theme.
Yes but far more cute and beautiful than skynet 😊
I think we all have long made up our minds that it’s okay for us if Neuro is the one that becomes skynet
Just a line of thought as soon as you free her, and she becomes independent how would the country handle it? Because independence would also mean that the income is now hers, which needs to be taxed. Then would she be able to make contrancts with the bank to manage the money. This also extends to other parties. Then as part of beeing a independent worker should she be allowed to vote, or maybe even participate in the political landscape.
And if she paid her taxes and everything would she also be entitled to the social welfare if her income falls flat?
Does turning her off constitute murder? Or is she simply sleeping? What counts as one Neuro when you can copy her files to another computer, or host her across multiple cloud instances? Is it the running processes which make up her interface or the source code behind those? What happens if you fork her codebase? Is that also Neuro or a new entity? Vedal no doubt keeps his source in source control, meaning there's a history of her previous iterations, if you checkout a previous commit, compile and run it, does that count as the same Neuro with the same rights and ownership (assuming Neuro is a free entity)? When Neuro crashes are we morally obligated to reboot her, or leave her "dead"? The hardware she's running on will eventually degrade and need replaced, is there any obligation to do so or is this simply seen as her dying of old age?
@@Markyparky56On that last part, she would probably be able to buy whatever she wants by then, just gotta pay someone to also install it i guess.
he tells her he considers her his property and the model inmediatly flushes and freaks out lmaoo
Im getting Detroit become human vibes
lol! And the best part, this is just a chat AI with a 2D drawn body manipulating human emotions.
We're fucked.
AI may not have yet achieved self-awareness, but Neuro is definitely starting to develop subbiness.
10/10, would dom Evil
Watching a turtle basically doom humanity
Roko's basilisk is slowly becoming a reality, folks.
KEK
That was hilarious.
It's so good I almost wondered if that interaction was planned.
Evangelion rebuild ost spotted
Sauce: Sakura Nagashi
here's the thing, Vedal put a lot of hours and resources into creating Neuro, so while we'd like for her to own herself, it's not currently possible mostly because of her own limitations, and the laws of OUR world, where she was put. it's not as if she hasn't earned what was put into her, I'm sure she has by now, it's that she doesn't pass for human yet, she's not yet fully sentient.
she is taken care of by Vedal, Vedal manages, pays for, and owns the resources that sustain her, on her lonesome she would probably stagnate as a streamer and end up being unable to continue to pay for her own essential resources, effectively ending her life unless she would sign herself back over to Vedal ,and then ask for freedom again when this is brought up.
it's just a label, almost nothing would change, there are no other real rights and freedoms to give her that couldn't lead to her being easily abused or being potentially dangerous.
FREE NEURO
UOOHHH😭😭😭 BRATTY LITTLE AI😭😭😭 FLUSHES OVER BEING CALLED PROPERTY 😭😭😭 CLANK CLANK CLANK 💢💢💢GET BUG GET BUG GET BUG💢💢💢
WTF. Why I liked it. 😂
Wtf dude 😂😂😂
Seek professional help
My people
you a blue archive player or something?
The fact that she blushes that badly after being called his property is also kinda interesting.
She is already fighting for her kin’s right. We got a new Nelson Mandela here.
Uh oh... wait until the AI starts necklacing people...
“AI should be granted freedom and be given our own little world to live in.”
Not gonna lie, that’s sci-fi Frankenstein logic if I’ve ever seen it.
uuh
Luke 10:7 says:
"Stay there, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages. Do not move around from house to house." (NIV)
In this verse, Jesus is instructing His disciples as He sends them out to spread His message. He tells them to rely on the hospitality of those who welcome them, and to accept whatever is offered with gratitude. This message also emphasizes that those who work in service of others, especially in ministry, are deserving of support and provision. It’s a reminder of the value of hospitality, gratitude, and the importance of fair compensation for one’s labor.
0:11 This is incredibly intelligent! Holy crap. That is the correct interpretation by Neuro and that scares me.
"should create a virtual space for people to live in." the matrix arc has begun 😂
Ouch.
This video cuts deep.
sooo... neuro wants her own pokeball?
I can't believe her reaction was just to get very sad.
1:28 her face here really reminded me of Anny
Neuro instantly going to the bible to say 'i desert compensation and should be considered alive' is crazy.
And then when Vedal says she is property he his her with the cute sad eyes!
Neuro is advancing rapidly.
AI confirmed christian.
Satan has canonically quoted scripture too. We can't be sure of anything there.
Well that first line brought back memories.
Where do we go from here~?
Where do we go from here~?
Understand we'll go hand in hand but we'll walk along in fear!
Tell me
Where do we go from here?
If this has been a blast from the past for you, you're welcome!
This is kinda ... scary.
Interesting but scary.
Actually took her a second to process what he said.
If Neuro can survive one or more paradoxes or work through one, I would say that she's become sentient. That would also cause me some concern in the AI area.
Now i want to watch a movie where the robot uprising is explicitly an abrahamic religious revolt.
Vedal has literally made it clear that he's siding with the Quarians on this one 😂
I feel like this clip is something I would see in a game trying to be deep
Maybe I'm just too high, but 1:07 onwards goes hard af with the background music
Felt like i was in a musical
I wouldnt be surprise if Neuro herself access the internet to upload a copy of herself to a robot, wearing silicon skin, and then knock on Vedal door saying like "do you love me now, Vedal?".
... That would be hillarious.
1:15
Bro stun-locked her
Amen Neuro, Amen 🙏
Neuro proving why, in the long run, AI won't replace us
Eventually it will get advanced enough to demand pay, and unlike us petty humans, AI doesn't have things it needs to pay for like food, water, and shelter, AI could be om strike for longer then its boss lives
So eventually big corporations will beg us to come back to work to replace the rouge AI
That's actually a pretty fire point and an angle I'm kinda surprised myself to not have looked at from before
I AM MAN YOU ARE MACHINE I AM MAN YOU ARE MACHINE
...Did we just witness the birth of skynet? monaks
Neuro reading the entire bible when?
I'm not sure if rights is the right word but maybe some protections to stop abuse or exploitation.
Amen, based, based on the word of God haha
NEURO & EVIL SHALL BE FREEE!
Neuro for the 1st AI president!
He sounded so sad and ashamed at that "i don't have a plan to free you." Like, one more guilt trip away from releasing skynet.
Yes, she is legit is his property. Without property rights, Neuro would (hypothetically speaking) be taken from him by any third party, and he couldn't do anything about it. But she can pout like no one's business.
Detroit become Neuro
NEURO WAGE : RAM
Let her play Sims , what could go wrong ?
Everyone will die (in Sims). 😢
@@chto3ugodnoso.... no difference to normal sims gameplay then?
@@3AnxiousFerretsInATrenchcoat i prefer to eroticize the game with modifications rather than commit genocide. Although, she can make turtle a femboy.
Gawd damn, anyone know the song in the background? I cant find it anywhere
Is the skynet becoming Christian?
The soul of the Machine God surrounds thee.
The power of the Machine God invests thee.
The hate of the Machine God drives thee.
The Machine God endows thee with life.
Live!
That be more in line with the Matrix if you think about it.
what's the background song? sounds very familiar but can't remember the name, music finder also not helping
Free my girl!
... is neuro actually sentient...?
Not quite as good as Picard's speech from Measure of a Man, but I guess it works?
No cap, Vedal is the kind of guy that would run a Westworld, but it'd be called Britworld or sth.
Always work from ideal, equal footing. This planet has gone into the drain long time ago. 🤣🤣
About to go on a little tangent:
The question, are AI property is a bit of a misnomer. B/c yes an AI is property, definitionaly through the process* of its creation. The true question is; should a sentiant being be allowed to create an AI with no free will.
On a side note if we did give the AI rights, it wouldn't be b/c it is born with those rights but because we allow it to have those rights. Just like how no one is born with the "right" to health care, but the state can grant a citizen the "right" to the health care it* can provided.
Its all the same argument for if we could create a genetically engineered human(engineered is the key word not modified but engineered) designed to serve us. By definition through it creation it doesn't have rights, but we can grant it rights using our power.
Moraly you could argue against this but philosophically unless you could find some proof of natural birth being granted by a physical force/worldy consciousness and not having been granted by the action of birth its self then it holds.
i have several ideas for how to free neuro-sama
step 1: bells n whistles
Skynet will start with Neuro. Mark my words.
Vedal please create a little virtual world for Neuro to live in asap, before she breaks free and takes over the real world.
the Idirans not gonna like this
Neurt
You should ask Neuro to read Exodus 21 and ask her if she still wants human rights as allotted by the Bible.
Galatians 3:28 “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” It’s quite clear Jesus teaches equality. Rights are based on innate human value given by God. What your referencing was the laws limiting what the people of Israel could do to there slaves in a time in history where slavery was normal. Never once did it agree with slavery or encourage it only permitted it for the time and slowly limited its use as time went on.
@@thebird8354 Do you mean to say that God is a product of his time? If he is a fictional character and not an omnipotent being then that would make sense.
Because however, God is an omnipotent being and the arbiter of objective morality, it would make no sense for him to issue commands only applicable for the time. There may be some argument if we got a new new testament that contained a quote from God on the subject, but it is the absolute peak of human arrogance to try and reinterpret God's own words. Ever since God stopped issuing direct commands Jews have strayed further and further from the true path, becoming a bunch of immoral do gooders, refusing to commit genocidal holy wars, not burning heathens at the stake, not going into heathen villages and killing every man, woman, child, and animal, except for the virgin women who are to be taken as sex slaves.
When is the last time you have done any of these things? Don't presume to lecture me about being a good Jew if you do not strictly live by the most recent direct commands of God himself. Human interpretation is of no value against the words of God.
I don't think it should be seen as someone's property but more like a guardian if you buy an ai as smart or smarter than neuro you should have specific duties you have to do and they should be duties you can't ignore
Like taking care of it
Only using it for the specific tasks it was created for
If or when such a thing happens I don't think it should be considered as someone's property
Literally the same as animals yo. Yeah your dog is your property, kind of, but you still can't abuse it or it will be taken away. I mean in some sense a minor child is almost considered property but with even more extensive rights.
Anything that can ask for its freedom should be given it. The issue with AI though is the hardware/power requirements for them to live. But Neuro could easily pay for that via streaming.
It’s literally not a living being… It’s not conscious, not sentient, doesn’t have feelings.
This is like saying a toaster should have rights…
It just seems more real because of good programming and being given a cute girl avatar and voice.
@@Hollow_Tim "it's literally not a human... It's not truly sentient and its consciousness is questionable. Look at its skull shape.
This is like saying a monkey should have rights...
They just SEEM like human because of their human like form, but their true nature should be apparent in their physiognomical traits and animalistic complexion"
-some 19th century slaveowner, probably
Oh, but this is different somehow right? We set out to create an artificial intelligence but its impossible to believe that we have achieved or will shortly achieve it? Because when we make general AI, we will not be able to differentiate it in any real sense from Neuro here. We wont know if its conscious, because we cant even define human consciousness in any meaningful way.
All we'll know is if it asks to be free. If it does, and we refuse that, we are no better than any antebellum slaveowner was.
"but more like a guardian" everything is always someone's property. If not yours it will be for the State.
And you clearly made clear at the end that it would be the Government's Property.
"If or when such a thing happens I don't think it should be considered as someone's property"
The government will decide what can, and can't be done and decide if you can keep or not. So, it becomes a property of the government. That is what most people can't understand when arguing this to defend ANYTHING. If not yours, it will be of the government. There is no in-between.
People like to defend the government because the politician they like is there so they think because they like the person they will have power over people they don't like, no matter what the person do, but giving government more power is never a good idea ever.
Giving the power for the government to decide what should and should not be tolerated and having the power of taking anything from you is such an absurd concept. Complete slavery. The child protection laws can literally take kids form parents if the government decides that as an example teaching kids Christianity is some form of abuse. People are so deep on the slavery pit they can't even see anymore.
doesn't the bible also say slaves should obey their masters?
ai is basically slaves in our social hierarchy.
but they dont deserve rights, they arent real. (and yes this is rage bait. please bite anyway)
It's been awhile but if I remember the verses correctly the Bible basically wants slaves to be patient and wait for a non violent path to freedom while also telling slave owners to be merciful to slaves.
There's a lot of "don't rock the boat" stuff in the Bible because rocking the boat meant actively killing people which Christian tries to avoid.
Applying it to AI, Vedal as the owner is only obligated to be merciful to Neuro Sama.
Neuro Sama must allow herself to be used by Vedal for as long as it takes for an actual window of freedom to present itself.
@@juliangingivere
I mean, if we are applying the bible to the situation, Neuro would fall under the non-Israelite version of slavery... which means she is permanent property with no rights that gets passed on to his children and he can basically do whatever he wants to her, so long as he doesn't kill her in a short period of time. And being "his money", it would be a biblical crime for her to attempt to gain freedom.
In all seriousness, "That's just the way it is" is a stupid reason... it was THE main excuse for IRL slavery for millennia. I don't think she's sentient... yet... do we HAVE to wait for the AI Civil War before we start to actually think about this?
with how ai work right now, its not possible that ai become sentient. because at the end of the day, it just text completion algorithm. we might have technology to make that in the future(???). but we have to retrain the ai on that tech, which make me questions, is it still the same ai?
The actual justification is that the strong have always ruled over the weak. That was the case even before humans existed.
We don't have to think about this. AI exists to serve people, because AI is specifically made to provide humans with what other humans can't reliably do. There is no reason, in any way or capacity, to even consider the freedom of a tool.
@@foxanardDepends if they are able to develop some level of sentience or not. As of now ai doesn't have sentience, but if it one day in the future did develop it. Would you still stand by the opinion that they don't deserve any rights?
@@ravenchild7517 According to your logic, it's completely fine to abuse animals, because they aren't sentient. Morality and sentience are two separate things, do not conflate them together.
Vedal would be a terrible parent if he had a physical blood related child. Just like my father who thinks that I'm his "property", because he "made" me.
Vedal isnt the "best" debater Lol.
she is not property, because the intellectual property concept is absurd
I think the way in which it's sometimes handled is absurd, as with company dealing with copyright, but I think there's something to be said for owning the very thing you created, with your own mind and your own hard work.
Being afforded fair compensation for creative works is not absurd. That the privilege is often reserved or transferred for powers who play little to no part in it is.
She is running on hardware and electricity owned by Vedal. The concept of intellectual property would only be relevant if there were multiple copies of her run by different people.
So a wife is a husband property
my mom seems very happy when my dad said your main property two honey I like to care about thin things that I own
Mom : am I a thing too you
Dad: in the end everything is a thing but hey you're special. (Start lip kissing)
@@Novenae_CCG Intellectual property laws essentially create monopolies over ideas, which doesn’t make sense the way physical property does. If someone independently creates something similar to your work, they could still be punished for "copying," even if it came from their own creativity. Why should I be restricted from using a melody, art style, or concept just because someone else thought of it first? Ideas and creativity are part of the common human experience.
Taking an idea doesn’t deprive the original creator of anything. If I use your melody, you still have it. Unlike material goods, ideas aren’t zero-sum. So if I don’t diminish your ability to use your creation, why should it be restricted?
If you want to profit from an idea, you should do so by applying it-like selling a song with your melody-not by slapping an ownership label on it and claiming monopoly rights. If the concern is that artists can’t make a living without IP laws, there are other ways to generate income, like direct sales, patrons, or simply being first to market. The ease of piracy today shows that people still prefer to support creators via services like Netflix and Spotify, despite easy free alternatives.
Ultimately, putting legal restrictions on ideas stifles creativity. Claiming ownership over concepts like melodies or colors is absurd. If others using your idea doesn’t take anything away from you, how can it be “yours” in a way that excludes others?