here is a somewhat weird compliment for you: As i first discovered your channel i was like. Why is that guy always somewhat angry and staring at me in this intense manner. And btw he should definitely upgrade his camera. But dude! The more i watch your videos the more I see your passion for board games and how you often have such good arguments based on experience. I watch your stuff any day over these payed preview guys with perfect lightning a flashy intro and their oily car salesman mentality! big love from germany.
I completely agree if they are going to be painted. Miniatures are so much more important in table top war gaming. In board gaming, they are fun, but sometimes the heaps of gray plastic just take up boxes and boxes and so much space. Then you have to open a separate box, or boxes, just to find the miniature you need that wasn’t even a part of the main game.
Umberto Eco, who owned 50,000 books, had this to say about home libraries: "It is foolish to think that you have to read all the books you buy, as it is foolish to criticize those who buy more books than they will ever be able to read. It would be like saying that you should use all the cutlery or glasses or screwdrivers or drill bits you bought before buying new ones. "There are things in life that we need to always have plenty of supplies, even if we will only use a small portion. "If, for example, we consider books as medicine, we understand that it is good to have many at home rather than a few: when you want to feel better, then you go to the 'medicine closet' and choose a book. Not a random one, but the right book for that moment. That's why you should always have a nutrition choice! "Those who buy only one book, read only that one and then get rid of it. They simply apply the consumer mentality to books, that is, they consider them a consumer product, a good. Those who love books know that a book is anything but a commodity." I think the same idea can very well apply to our board game collections :)
I am a sucker for the miniatures in a board game. I am usually drawn to them. That said, those games tend to sit on my shelf as I won't play them until they are painted. As a result, I have a ton of painting to do, and I am now considerably more particular about what I back that has miniatures.
Gosh youre so right about minis. I keep wanting to like them bc others love them but ... i love a gorgeous acyrlic stand or printed wooden token over plastic. The shame is when games offer an acyrlic option but theres so little effort to making them look nice!
Minis are great for certain genres of tabletop gaming, but I think too many games are shoehorning in minis when they don’t need them. Standees are can be just as effective and can still be immersive if they are illustrated with great detail (Oathsworn enemy standees are excellent quality for example.) Also agree about table presence when game mechanics/ FUN gameplay should be the top priority. That said, a game can be super fun and addictive, but I totally understand if it barely sells because the publisher decided to slap on extremely ugly/ tacky/ boring artwork. I think the artwork and aesthetics of a game really give good gameplay that extra boost it needs to be truly immersive
With you on legacy games. There's something that feels deeply wrong about a board game designed to be discarded after a certain number of plays. One of our game groups nearly came apart at the seams because of a Risk Legacy campaign and we have an unfinished Pandemic Legacy game that's 80% finished campaign but we moved to different country so the group got split up. Moreover you're absolutely right that people don't come back to the legacy games for any kind of New Game +. Once they're done, they're basically there as a "I finished that" reminder on your shelf. None of these things make them feel like they are part of the board game hobby space I want to build.
I for one don't understand the critique of legacy games at all. To me the whole rant about legacy games was just absurd waste of energy. 1. They are sold you as legacy games, you do not buy them in accident. Don't like them? Don't buy them. Has nothing to do what someone wants the hobby to be like. 2. If the legacy campaign is 12 games long, that is already more than most games on average get played. Those 12 games also gave you entertainment, and memories worth a lot. I still remember a lot of legacy games I played, but not many normal games I have played. 3. Why do you keep the game in your shelf after you finish it? It was meant as a campaign, you finished it, throw it away, recycle the box and the components. 4. Saying legacy games are bad for the environment is just exaggeration. Anything we consume is bad for the environment. Take a look how much waste you produce daily and compare that to the 12 games you got from the game and notice how environmental friendly this hobby actually is compared to most hobbies.
@@Crs9072 agree to disagree I guess, my experiences with them have been quite a mixed bag. Some are sold with the concept of being able to play on after the main campaign with the altered set, but end up not being in a state that makes that option very attractive, for example having a fat load of customised and additional rules and parts that end up making normal play kind of clunky and difficult to teach to newcomers (pandemic legacy for eg). For me, I play most of my games way more than 12 times and my experiences with legacy games have not always been good. I think something like MyCity is an exception. It's affordable and the rules are at a consistent level throughout and there's a playable version once the 'campaign' is done.
I do love screen-printed meeples, but my favourite of all are simple glass tokens. Shiny. I like miniatures as art, but if I wanted to play a game with them I’d be doing wargaming, not boardgaming, or playing chess. As for all those games I have but won’t ever get around to playing, they’re just home décor at this point, like a throw pillow or a plant.
3 месяца назад+1
As long as part of the decor isn’t a giant Cthulhu!
as a non-painter, i would love to switch from minis to standees for all my games. would take up like a third of the space. (imagine shrinking a near-complete Marvel United collection from 2 kallax cubes to a single stretch goals box. would be awesome.)
Agree on minis. I can;t don't model or paint minis, and some games they are just a pain, like ISS Vanguard, where you have multiple good sized mini's trying to occupy spaces the size of a playing card , you still; need to be able to see/read the card they are standing on.... I stopped using the minis, using just the section-colored rings you put on the minis, to just using section colored cubes looted from other games.... Legacy Games - Nope, if there's no replay value/capacity, not interested.
Love the video! And I also love Legacy Games, and I do throw them away when I’m done with them. I get more plays per games on average from a legacy game than most other games I own, so in practice I would argue that legacy games promote consumerism less than the board game industry generally. However, on average, I would argue board games promote consumerism less than most other forms of entertainment (except maybe video games and some sports), definitely less than travel vacations. So if you’re saying you hate legacy games for that reason, you can’t be a fan of paying money to go to the theater or to travel to a beautiful place.
As a painter, minis are a big part of the hobby for me. I paint a lot and so don't have to wait too long before I get the game to the table e.g. I painted Earth Under Siege, core box, in 8 days. Primal, core box, stretch goals and terrain pack took me 10 days. However, I have only just started to paint Ankh, which I have owned for a while. This was bought just for the joy of painting and I am spending more time on it. I get the attraction for standees, especially for non-painters. I love acrylic standees and wouldn't want to change these in Uprising. And I haven't used the miniatures in Deliverance because the standees are so good.
"I can play this other game and nauseum but not legacy games." "I never hear anyone say after they finished a campaign they want to play their legacy game again." By the time I finished Gloomhaven, I had already racked up more hours than probably any other game. And even for shorter legacy games- if you finish the campaign, not only did you probably have a fantastic experience, you also probably played it more than the majority of non-legacy games on your shelf. I get the ad nauseum argument. I make it to myself, too. But the average game on my shelf doesn't get more than a dozen plays. A few standouts get a lot, but most don't come close to what a legacy game gets if we really enjoy it, so I'd say they wind up being more than worth the investment.
3 месяца назад
It’s fair, but I also feel like it’s the exception rather than the rule and most people think they’re the exception and they not though
I agree on the miniatures. They make things more expensive when that isn't needed. I can understand upgrading a game you love with miniatures, but starting with miniatures just raises the entrance price point. Legacy games... depends on context. My group has played Pandemic Legacy 1 and we are part way through 2. I think these have been excellent experiences as Legacy games. We don't play board games multiple times per night or weekend. Instead each have been slow burns that take about a year to complete. That's a year of friends and family coming over, having dinner, and playing a game. The legacy elements have definitely added tension, and definitely make us care more about the consequences of our decisions. The map for Pandemic Legacy 1 is on the wall of our game room. If I compare to some other games we have that are not legacy, we actually played more games, and more minutes of game, in Pandemic Legacy 1 than we have on several other games. So I partially agree. I don't buy legacy games unless I'm sure the group will play through them the whole way, or unless they're resettable so I can reset and trade them away to a better home. But the very few legacy games we have played through have all been excellent experiences and worth the money.
You were half right, I disagree with 2 out of 4 of those. I do agree that a game isn't a status symbol. And preview videos are boring. I love miniatures - I bought Massive Darkness specifically for the minis. Liking the game was a bonus. But also if I love the game, I paint the minis. So I get hating minis if you don't paint, but I like painting and I like minis. Legacy games are fun. That is literally the only defense I need. I have fun playing them and really could not care less if other people dislike them. I'll put the finished Risk Legacy map on the wall in my game room and smile as I remember how much fun I had. I'll even hot glue the minis to the board before I turn it into wall art.
/s I have Too Many Bones trove chest. lol I would like to add campaign games to the legacy part of the video. unpopular opinion- every game should have a solo mode or coop. so you can table it and not have to rely on others to learn game (cough..Voidfall...cough) unpopular opinion- I am not a solo gamer (which I fine). but how many video games have you played solo, have you enjoyed a book or movie alone? love this video Chris.
1: I would be happy with ACRYLIC STANDEES!!!!!! Not that cardboard shit which deforms in the stand! 2: I have under 20 games in my collection. But I'm a player not a collector. So i can't name a game which i didn't play in this year. :) 3: same. Completely agree! 4: Agree again!
3 месяца назад
Are you me? Minus the 20 games part….unless they’re all fake props behind me…
This was good, thanks. I have two somewhat unpopular opinions myself. 1. It’s ok for me to get rid of a campaign game even if I haven’t seen every single character’s story through, nor explored every nook and cranny. I rarely play through the campaign again. 2. I don’t need to “go all-in gameplay” anymore. I should try the core box first…..or play something I already have. Also, I live by neither of these….but acknowledgment is a start.
Fully with you on legacy games. I have tried a couple and I don't t hink I will ever buy another. I don't generally like committing to campaigns in games and legacy is even worse, because if a group flakes out, there is no starting over. That happened with my first attempt at a legacy game, so the next time I bought one I committed to just doing a 2-player campaign with a friend who would be staying with me a lot. It took us several years before we concluded that campaign and it wound up feeling like a chore to me to do so, and I felt like we could have spent that gaming time playing different games instead. The only reason I even got a third legacy game was because of my mom (she loves everything Ticket to Ride, so I wanted her to have that experience - but I definitely would not have gotten it for any other reason).
Yeah, she got madly hooked. It's funny, because she only really played that first time for my dad's sake, but she was the one who got properly hooked (TtR and Catan - though since it's mostly just the two of us playing, Catan wound up on the sidelines) and it's become a thing to gift her whatever new map comes out. She has nearly all of them. I'll probably take the Legacy post-game components with me for her to have, since she'll probably be the only one I will play the finished map with anyway - but I'll keep the box since it holds all of my versions in one place, lol.
I hear you on the miniatures. For example, I thought Primal: The Awaking looked like it might be decent, but the fact it's a deck builder for 200+ to get started because of miniatures that could easily be a cardboard cutout was a major turn off.
2 месяца назад+1
Cant argue with that even though i really like Primal
I sold Hegemony for the same reason you sold Voidfall. I also found out I prefer acrylics standee over minis after playing Beast. And I have so many minis games that I would like to paint but I don't have the time to do it.
3 месяца назад+1
I wish I had any skill in painting. I’d feel slightly less bad then
Agree 100% that miniatures are a waste of money and an unnecessary increase in plastic garbage. In the other hand I do have a few games that I love but have trouble getting to the table. Twilight Struggle for example. I will still keep it as I don’t have a single game group and hope to find someone interested. With a limited budget it only makes sense to watch preview and review videos
1. 100% agree. Painted wooden meeples or acrylic standees are much much better in most cases. Vagrantsong standees are a great example. The only exception is wargames. I prefer minis for those for obvious reasons, because the painting your minis and building you squads are a different type of hobby as it's own.
I never have gotten the Catan hate. I don't own it anymore, I had a very early version back in the 90s, but I'd play it today if asked, even if I won't seek it out. For minis/meeples/standees, I love KtHO's awesome meeples, and I use standees in many cases, but I do like the minis for Vast and Wonderland's War. I don't need/want games with tons of the things though. I used to play WFB and 40K, and some other big mini-focused games, but they take up a ton of room and harder to get played with my current group. I buy games I want to play, so skip lots of Euros that are 'the hotness' since while some are good, many are dull as dishwater, and overpriced to boot. I have some oddballs like Frutti Di Mare, and the Dwar7s games that I have gotten played at least a few times. I loathe preview videos. I don't even watch them unless already interested in a game before watching, and want to learn more about it. They are too often paid advertisements as you say. Not a big legacy fan, although I do have the first Clank! one which I still haven't played yet! I do love KtHO's Chronicle mode though, especially the Boss Battles version, as we get to unlock stuff, but no trashing cards (even if we don't need the lock cards after unlocking), can swap players around with no issue, and can change the monsters we play. Legacy games just feel like they should be video games.
3 месяца назад
I think people have made them their video game feel good too
Already painted or colored mini's would be nice! Always getting these greys is frustrating, unless you're a painter yourself, and if you're one you still need the time... Totally agree with Legacy Games, I'll avoid them like crazy 😅
I can honestly say that a legacy game was one of the the games I have played more than 95% of the games I know. My friend used the completed board as an art piece in his game room. Otherwise, you're probably right.
Man, I agree with everything you have mentioned* With that said... *Full disclosure: I have purchased 3 games without any interest in the games itself, but for the art / painting the miniatures (as a fan of Adrian Smith...): The Others; Rising Sun; and Mordred...
I wouldn't be in this hobby without miniatures. I love seeing them, I love using them, and I love painting them! I fucking hate chips and cardboard standees as a substitute, but plastic standees are OK (still prefer minis). You might like minis more if they were painted. I value table presence as one of the deciding factors in getting a game. I won't buy a great game if it looks boring or has nothing but cardboard standees. There are too many great games out there with fantastic table presence for me to be concerned about boring artwork/table presence/etc... I have zero interest in legacy games.
Status symbols? Never heard of them. I mean, sure I have a copy of "the best solo board game of all time hands down" *Mage Knight* Boy, I love how it sits on the shelf. I have the best solo board game. That makes *ME* cool. Play it? No I never play it. I swoon at the idea of spending 15 minutes on a single turn to run over every single card combo in my hand. I adore realizing I made a single bad choice an hour ago, and now my 3 hour game is totally fucked beyond all recovery. I love a game that makes me feel stupid, and small. I love it! That's why I keep it around. I dusted it off about 6 months ago. Relearned the rules (not that hard really), but after the first in game day decided I made a wrong choice, so instead of suffering for another 2.5 hours, I just packed it up. What a game! Best solo game ever. AND I HAVE IT. PEOPLE WILL BOW TO IT.
I'm not a painter so I'm not into the minis, but I also don't like the little cubes unless they are purely counters or place-holders. For Ameritrash dungeon crawlers I like standees. For Euros I like themed meeples. For counters, cubes or dials are great. Dials address the table-bumping problem but they are often overkill. I will watch preview videos. They are better than poorly made reviews. I've only bought 1 legacy game (Charterstone) and in general I won't consider buying them unless they are "resetable legacy" games. I think you missed one thing to rant about: Tripple-layered boards. It seems double-layered boards aren't deluxe enough any more... :)
@@BayonetRecon I haven't kept track, but I've seen at least a half-dozen games with them on Kickstarter this year. Usually it is for player boards, not the main board.
Fun rant! So, Kingdom Death Monster is the Antichrist? Countless kickstarters only exist because of cool videos, lots of miniatures, and add ons. There is no way to tell the quality of a game from a commercial (paid review) or a product photo on the kickstarter page.
1) Acrylic standees are much better than plastic minis 2) Wooden meeples are THE GOAT of player tokens and I would take them any day over plastic or even acrylic
I have 5 games in the binary range. 2 are new purchases, both couldnt wait due to being a great deal. One is my favourite game from back in the day thst my current team just never wants to play but I keep hoping ill manager to put it on a table with SOME group. Two are big long games I still manager to play once each this year. Idk i think im doing great
Great video, I agree with most points, especially that standees are really under rated. I can't get onboard with just wooden cubes though, that's a step too far beyond the pale for me. The game I immediately thought of as my Voidfall equivalent is Root. My copium is I'm learning the game slowly via the steam version and I have a group that I think will really enjoy the depth and cut throat nature of it once we've worked up to more difficult games. I've had it for about three months with zero plays and probably won't get it to the table before Christmas. What are your thoughts on Let's Go to Japan, have you tabled it yet?
3 месяца назад+1
I have, feel similar about root too. Multi game review coming with it in the next week or two. Spoilers: better than I was really expecting
I agree that Pandemic shouldn't have been a destructive Legacy game. We should have had reset kits. The only saving grace for playing Legacy s1 and 2 twice was that you got to complete a 4 box Clock image across the 4 boxes. Despite that I just put the left over boxes on top of my Kitchen Cabinets for display. What makes discarding PL games so painful is knowing how many plastic cubes and such that we would be tossing. UGH!
I agree that minis overinflated our hobby. At the same time, it's become a new hobby for me. I love painting board game minis, and the feeling I get when my friends and family get to play a super delux version of a game (because of the painted minis) is unmatched. Speaking of unmatched... I never paint minis when they come pre washed. Off the top of my head, unmatched, foundations of Rome, and my father's work. I wish more games came washed.
3 месяца назад
I like washing too…if it wasn’t another extra cost on top. Painting makes more sense, but too many (ie myself) aren’t so it isn’t as good
I like mini sculpts and enjoy painting. That being said I have a several big games I haven't played yet because I need to paint, and life gets in the way. I don't own a single game as a "status symbol". I own games because I enjoy them.
I think people keep games that they should get rid of because they have a fantasy of getting to play it and loving it and having yet another amazing experience. I think it’s more of a fear of missing out and also not wanting to admit that they wasted their money.
Standees are prettier than minis. Unless well painted. But most people don't (know how to) paint. Also the idea of non-replayable legacy game is bad. Very bad. I like some of them, but destroying pieces is just horrible idea.
Many miniatures actually obscure the board and make game play more difficult. They effectively cast a 'shadow' behind them for players on the wrong side of the board.
I agree that “legacy” games should be replay able to experiment with choices and outcomes (like the epic adventure series; “where did I go so horribly wrong?”), and eliminate the needlessly wasteful concept of a single-use game.
I understand the second point and also agree with it however life got in my way and I need to find a new regular board game group. When I do have board game groups I like to try to cycle through the games I have. Then again I think my collection is still reasonably small compared to most people. What is useful is to find friends who have the games you want to play but not own. As for legacy games it does have a charm but I feel it is being replaced in favour of repayable campaign games. I wouldn't consider it an unpopular opinion. It doesn't fit with the trend of avoiding waste.
You speak truth…hard I do play legacy games like Gloomhaven, Frosthaven, Dungeon Unversalis. For me I don’t think it is a waste, as we play each in full for probably 1.5 years. Then we are done, but after spending a lot of time. I don’t know if a non legacy game can maintain the interest for as long, I doubt it.
3 месяца назад+1
I almost don’t view the -havens as legacy but more campaign. They’re a weird hybrid so I don’t hold it totally against them the same
Love these. I think people who regularly watch LoG might agree with most if not all of these so hard to tell how unpopular these really are just by looking at comments 😆
Board game success=Cost/play X enjoyment! If table presence, legacy, deluxification, etc. means my wife, kids, or friends want to play it more or enjoy in more then it may be worth it. A game that costs $100 played 10 times is more cost effective than a $50 game played twice even if the enjoyment is the same. But if the game played 10 times is also more enjoyable, the you’d be an idiot to replace it with the $50 game. You can also do the same with hours of entertainment replacing plays in the above equation (=cost/hours of play X enjoyment) and now the epic four hour game only needs to be played twice to be as economical as the 1 hour game played 8 times assuming all else is equal.😊 Trademarked😁
Of the board games I've bought since the pandemic, maybe 25% have EVER been played. I've mostly switched to buying RPG books, as those at least I can read the books and immerse myself into the worlds even if I never play with others.
3 месяца назад+1
I feel you hard. Those rpg world building books I’d love to immerse myself with in an ideal dream group as a DM. Sigh….you and me both
I despise games that ask you to mutilate or destroy components (Excepting reprint-able paper components). Playable once then pass it on is fine, but playable once then trash it is total BS.
TTR legacy was a pretty good game, my biggest issue was that after the creators took my $125 they tried to make me feel like a POS for buying a railroad themed game lacking a Howard Zinn view of the west in their cultural revolution like self criticism in the rule book
3 месяца назад
I just can’t pay that much for a TtR like that. In an ideal world, maybe. Maybe. But really, maybe not
The concept of legacy games is alien to me. Like I would never actually destroy or tear up pieces (or permanently change them somehow) if I want to play the same game in the future. I wouldn’t buy another copy just for a replay
I've always disliked miniatures as they almost always look ugly and are sometimes unreasonably heavy for what they do, and if they significantly increase the cost then that's a triple-whammy of yuck. I know that many enjoy painting miniatures and to each their own. Several months ago I was shocked and pleased to find Assassin's Creed Brotherhood for around $50 instead of the something-like-$200 when it was kickstarted, and I believe that most of the price difference was due to using standees (I may very well be wrong but I was just glad for the game to be affordable). As for legacy games, I never deface or mangle game components, and instead I find other temporary solutions such as keeping track with pen and paper. I've only played light-legacy games, though, such as Gloomhaven and Frosthaven. I like, though, games such as that (or Middara, Oathsworn, and the like) in which there is a story and an ending, and I do replay games if I like them enough.
I differ a bit with you. I think screen printed custom meeples/buildings/tokens are the best imo. So frickin tired of the plastic minis though. So frickin tired of having to spend months of time painting them unless I want the entire game to look like boring grey plastic.
I don't like minis either. I will proxy wooden meeples in for minis when I play, but I have so few games with minis I don't have to do this often. I disagree with preview videos not being helpful to consumers. I understand they are advertisements meant to showcase a game, but they do provide information. I think preview videos alone are not the best decider of your money, but combined with other sources of opinion they are helpful to me.
If CMoN games didn’t come with miniatures or standees, how popular would they be? Marvel United with wood cubes? LOL! No. That would require too much imagination to visualize. You are probably one of those people who prefer the 8 bit graphics in video games. 🤣 High quality graphics make video games more expensive. 🤣 Seriously though, I get what you’re saying about miniatures. For some games I still prefer them over wooden blocks or discs. I’m warming up to standees. Some of them look nice and it’s nice they don’t take up as much space.
Minis are created for tabletop war games because they need to do cover and distance. Minis 99% of are totally useless and also hurt gameplay because of their visual obstruction in board games; For example in Huang and Ankh. Minis added to hobby just created wider appeal (more customers) to mini war gamers and mini painters.
i love it, BG are Status Symbols^^ i love my Status Symbols^^ my treasure^^ you're right: "NO" i fuckin hate Preview Videos, i want Testing Videos. How good is the game, is the Game for me or not? Legacy Games are "nice", if you have 50 Bucks to burn... like going to the Casino and play against the Bank ;)
I would not get rid of my screen printed meeples in my euro games nor i wouuld not want minis in my dungeon crawlers... ATO without minis (O_o) ? Legacy games with component destruction can go in hell...
I rarely watch previews, the few I've watched lately were a waste of time. I atleast want some opinion thrown into it. I also watch reviews backwards. See the score first then final thoughts then the overview. Unless the average score is bad
Deluxification is a blight, especially for euro games. I despise EGG for picking up Rococo and reprinting deluxe only for triple the price of original.
I don't like legacy games because of the cost/replay issue. As far as review videos go, I watch as many as I can before buying. One reviewer may like one mechanic of a game, that another reviewer may not like. I've made purchases in spite of reviewers opinions. Better advice would be not to take the first review as gospel. Watch several and somewhere in the middle your truth will become evident. I also like miniature. I come from the miniature wargame branch of gaming and love painting the figures. But do agree, doing away will make games more affordable, ala, "Foundations of Metropolis". Thank you for the insights.
3 месяца назад
What? I thought the first opinion and the largest ones were always right? 😂
As a miniature painter I somewhat disagree 😎 There are too many games period and to much ‘hotness’. In reality they are hot for a month And there are deffo to many expansions for some games that should have been in the original
3 месяца назад
As a painter that makes sense, can’t disagree if that’s a big thing for you
So many agree on the "mini" argument. But how much of you still buy these massiv 100x mini games nontheless. As long as this will happen, nothing will change, because mini have the biggest winning margins over every other alternative.
3 месяца назад
Agreed. Only voting with your wallet ever changes things
I would love to see the counter argument to all of these opinions, conveyed in just as upset/angry manner, simply to show that these opinions aren't correct, but are opinions. I enjoy listening, but i disagree with a lot of these opinions... and i would assume Chris would want it that way, since i don't know that he agrees with anyone full stop.
Haha def unpopular opinions that I disagree with. This is a luxury hobby and I like minis, and table presence, playing with the minis, sharing them with my family, and painting minis. I also love upgrading board games. Why? I don’t know and I don’t care but it’s fun and relaxing. My legacy games (big ones) are also getting way more playtime and the campaigns have way more total hours than I would ever be willing to play patchwork or spirit island. Aeon trespass has like 250+ hours in base game, isofarian guard has about 200+ hours. So I don’t think it’s a waste of space and it does support mid-terms to long-term enjoyment When I’m done, I’ll sell them on eBay not throw them away lol.
3 месяца назад
Is Aeons End a “legacy game”? I’d argue it’s a campaign game. some legacy games are also campaign games, but not all campaign games are legacy games if that makes sense.
My opinion is that crowdfunding has mostly screwed the board game hobby, and promotes many more bloated vastly overpriced poor quality games supported by a legion of self-important so-called “content creators” than it does good ones. Unpopular?
Standees are horf8ble. Give. Me. More. Plastic. Youre makijg a small caed game? It would be better with some plastic minis. I. Want plastic. As much plastic as its possible. Table presence is king. Its literally among top 3 bests things in games.
Nothing to say about the content itself, bu man, what are you doing to your videos? It looks like there is an intentional 'old-timey' filter on all of your videos. Please upgrade your gear?!
3 месяца назад
I love these comments like it’s easy to just drop a couple grand for equipment upgrades or as a non media person in the first place, just to “do it” like it’s a button I’m just choosing not to press. I operate in a room less than half the size of most peoples game rooms or filming areas so some stuff is just limited unfortunately too from that aspect. I would if I could man, I would if I could
Dude, I'm not advocating for buying a huge (and expensive) camera setup, but it seems to me that a recently new phone would hands-down produce a better image-quality? And if you're working in a tight space, you would have access to a wide-angle lens.
Table presence isn't what makes me buy a game, it's what makes me look at it in the first place. I refuse to buy ugly and uninspired games for muh mehanics
here is a somewhat weird compliment for you: As i first discovered your channel i was like. Why is that guy always somewhat angry and staring at me in this intense manner. And btw he should definitely upgrade his camera. But dude! The more i watch your videos the more I see your passion for board games and how you often have such good arguments based on experience. I watch your stuff any day over these payed preview guys with perfect lightning a flashy intro and their oily car salesman mentality! big love from germany.
yes yes yes a thousand times! i had the same experience. I love his Enthusiasm and passion a loT! greetings as well from Germany >D
lol. Thanks!
I love minis because it feeds my other hobby of mini painting. Only paint the game I really love but once it's done it's very satisfying.
That’s fair!
I completely agree if they are going to be painted. Miniatures are so much more important in table top war gaming. In board gaming, they are fun, but sometimes the heaps of gray plastic just take up boxes and boxes and so much space. Then you have to open a separate box, or boxes, just to find the miniature you need that wasn’t even a part of the main game.
You looked grumpy in the thumbnail, which is why I clicked to watch. I was not disappointed.
I live up to the hype!
Umberto Eco, who owned 50,000 books, had this to say about home libraries:
"It is foolish to think that you have to read all the books you buy, as it is foolish to criticize those who buy more books than they will ever be able to read. It would be like saying that you should use all the cutlery or glasses or screwdrivers or drill bits you bought before buying new ones.
"There are things in life that we need to always have plenty of supplies, even if we will only use a small portion.
"If, for example, we consider books as medicine, we understand that it is good to have many at home rather than a few: when you want to feel better, then you go to the 'medicine closet' and choose a book. Not a random one, but the right book for that moment. That's why you should always have a nutrition choice!
"Those who buy only one book, read only that one and then get rid of it. They simply apply the consumer mentality to books, that is, they consider them a consumer product, a good. Those who love books know that a book is anything but a commodity."
I think the same idea can very well apply to our board game collections :)
Books also generally don't cost $100s of dollars because of mini bloat :D
Sure, this is all I needed to justify my compulsive collector/buying of board games... an epic writer quoting :P
THANKS OBAMA /s
Who said, that famous people are not able to say stupid things. (Just kiddin'). If you need another reason for your fomo, then take it.
@Sammo212 some books, especially textbooks can be 100s of dollars... So books are expensive, too.
@@JJ_TheGreat and being pedantic is apparently free lol
I am a sucker for the miniatures in a board game. I am usually drawn to them. That said, those games tend to sit on my shelf as I won't play them until they are painted. As a result, I have a ton of painting to do, and I am now considerably more particular about what I back that has miniatures.
Same! Except minus the painting
Gosh youre so right about minis. I keep wanting to like them bc others love them but ... i love a gorgeous acyrlic stand or printed wooden token over plastic. The shame is when games offer an acyrlic option but theres so little effort to making them look nice!
You wild for recommending using cubes for marvel United lol
I do what I can
Minis are great for certain genres of tabletop gaming, but I think too many games are shoehorning in minis when they don’t need them. Standees are can be just as effective and can still be immersive if they are illustrated with great detail (Oathsworn enemy standees are excellent quality for example.)
Also agree about table presence when game mechanics/ FUN gameplay should be the top priority. That said, a game can be super fun and addictive, but I totally understand if it barely sells because the publisher decided to slap on extremely ugly/ tacky/ boring artwork. I think the artwork and aesthetics of a game really give good gameplay that extra boost it needs to be truly immersive
Nicely worded
With you on legacy games. There's something that feels deeply wrong about a board game designed to be discarded after a certain number of plays. One of our game groups nearly came apart at the seams because of a Risk Legacy campaign and we have an unfinished Pandemic Legacy game that's 80% finished campaign but we moved to different country so the group got split up. Moreover you're absolutely right that people don't come back to the legacy games for any kind of New Game +. Once they're done, they're basically there as a "I finished that" reminder on your shelf. None of these things make them feel like they are part of the board game hobby space I want to build.
I for one don't understand the critique of legacy games at all. To me the whole rant about legacy games was just absurd waste of energy.
1. They are sold you as legacy games, you do not buy them in accident. Don't like them? Don't buy them. Has nothing to do what someone wants the hobby to be like.
2. If the legacy campaign is 12 games long, that is already more than most games on average get played. Those 12 games also gave you entertainment, and memories worth a lot. I still remember a lot of legacy games I played, but not many normal games I have played.
3. Why do you keep the game in your shelf after you finish it? It was meant as a campaign, you finished it, throw it away, recycle the box and the components.
4. Saying legacy games are bad for the environment is just exaggeration. Anything we consume is bad for the environment. Take a look how much waste you produce daily and compare that to the 12 games you got from the game and notice how environmental friendly this hobby actually is compared to most hobbies.
@@Crs9072 agree to disagree I guess, my experiences with them have been quite a mixed bag. Some are sold with the concept of being able to play on after the main campaign with the altered set, but end up not being in a state that makes that option very attractive, for example having a fat load of customised and additional rules and parts that end up making normal play kind of clunky and difficult to teach to newcomers (pandemic legacy for eg). For me, I play most of my games way more than 12 times and my experiences with legacy games have not always been good. I think something like MyCity is an exception. It's affordable and the rules are at a consistent level throughout and there's a playable version once the 'campaign' is done.
I do love screen-printed meeples, but my favourite of all are simple glass tokens. Shiny. I like miniatures as art, but if I wanted to play a game with them I’d be doing wargaming, not boardgaming, or playing chess. As for all those games I have but won’t ever get around to playing, they’re just home décor at this point, like a throw pillow or a plant.
As long as part of the decor isn’t a giant Cthulhu!
Not even a plushie one, around here 😄
as a non-painter, i would love to switch from minis to standees for all my games. would take up like a third of the space. (imagine shrinking a near-complete Marvel United collection from 2 kallax cubes to a single stretch goals box. would be awesome.)
That. Would. Be. Tremendous
Agree on minis. I can;t don't model or paint minis, and some games they are just a pain, like ISS Vanguard, where you have multiple good sized mini's trying to occupy spaces the size of a playing card , you still; need to be able to see/read the card they are standing on.... I stopped using the minis, using just the section-colored rings you put on the minis, to just using section colored cubes looted from other games....
Legacy Games - Nope, if there's no replay value/capacity, not interested.
Love the video! And I also love Legacy Games, and I do throw them away when I’m done with them. I get more plays per games on average from a legacy game than most other games I own, so in practice I would argue that legacy games promote consumerism less than the board game industry generally. However, on average, I would argue board games promote consumerism less than most other forms of entertainment (except maybe video games and some sports), definitely less than travel vacations. So if you’re saying you hate legacy games for that reason, you can’t be a fan of paying money to go to the theater or to travel to a beautiful place.
I like how modiphius did Mass Effect game. Minimal minis with an offer to buy all minis separately. Kept price way down for sure for casual gamers
Agreed!
As a painter, minis are a big part of the hobby for me. I paint a lot and so don't have to wait too long before I get the game to the table e.g. I painted Earth Under Siege, core box, in 8 days. Primal, core box, stretch goals and terrain pack took me 10 days. However, I have only just started to paint Ankh, which I have owned for a while. This was bought just for the joy of painting and I am spending more time on it.
I get the attraction for standees, especially for non-painters. I love acrylic standees and wouldn't want to change these in Uprising. And I haven't used the miniatures in Deliverance because the standees are so good.
Painting makes sense !
Among your best stuff! Love it!
Thanks!
"I can play this other game and nauseum but not legacy games."
"I never hear anyone say after they finished a campaign they want to play their legacy game again."
By the time I finished Gloomhaven, I had already racked up more hours than probably any other game. And even for shorter legacy games- if you finish the campaign, not only did you probably have a fantastic experience, you also probably played it more than the majority of non-legacy games on your shelf.
I get the ad nauseum argument. I make it to myself, too. But the average game on my shelf doesn't get more than a dozen plays. A few standouts get a lot, but most don't come close to what a legacy game gets if we really enjoy it, so I'd say they wind up being more than worth the investment.
It’s fair, but I also feel like it’s the exception rather than the rule and most people think they’re the exception and they not though
I agree on the miniatures. They make things more expensive when that isn't needed. I can understand upgrading a game you love with miniatures, but starting with miniatures just raises the entrance price point. Legacy games... depends on context. My group has played Pandemic Legacy 1 and we are part way through 2. I think these have been excellent experiences as Legacy games. We don't play board games multiple times per night or weekend. Instead each have been slow burns that take about a year to complete. That's a year of friends and family coming over, having dinner, and playing a game. The legacy elements have definitely added tension, and definitely make us care more about the consequences of our decisions. The map for Pandemic Legacy 1 is on the wall of our game room. If I compare to some other games we have that are not legacy, we actually played more games, and more minutes of game, in Pandemic Legacy 1 than we have on several other games. So I partially agree. I don't buy legacy games unless I'm sure the group will play through them the whole way, or unless they're resettable so I can reset and trade them away to a better home. But the very few legacy games we have played through have all been excellent experiences and worth the money.
Thanks for the comment!
You were half right, I disagree with 2 out of 4 of those. I do agree that a game isn't a status symbol. And preview videos are boring.
I love miniatures - I bought Massive Darkness specifically for the minis. Liking the game was a bonus. But also if I love the game, I paint the minis. So I get hating minis if you don't paint, but I like painting and I like minis.
Legacy games are fun. That is literally the only defense I need. I have fun playing them and really could not care less if other people dislike them. I'll put the finished Risk Legacy map on the wall in my game room and smile as I remember how much fun I had. I'll even hot glue the minis to the board before I turn it into wall art.
If fun, then that’s all that matters in the end
For me the main thing that can make me go deluxe and overpay on a crowdfunding is if thsts the way to get cool minis.
If these opinions are so unpopular, how come I have all the same opinions?
😱 Lol
/s I have Too Many Bones trove chest. lol
I would like to add campaign games to the legacy part of the video.
unpopular opinion- every game should have a solo mode or coop. so you can table it and not have to rely on others to learn game (cough..Voidfall...cough)
unpopular opinion- I am not a solo gamer (which I fine). but how many video games have you played solo, have you enjoyed a book or movie alone?
love this video Chris.
Thanks!
I will take acrylic standees over miniatures anyday.
1: I would be happy with ACRYLIC STANDEES!!!!!! Not that cardboard shit which deforms in the stand!
2: I have under 20 games in my collection. But I'm a player not a collector. So i can't name a game which i didn't play in this year. :)
3: same. Completely agree!
4: Agree again!
Are you me? Minus the 20 games part….unless they’re all fake props behind me…
You can have table presence with standees as I think we showed with Uprising :)
This man right here for the WIN!
This was good, thanks. I have two somewhat unpopular opinions myself.
1. It’s ok for me to get rid of a campaign game even if I haven’t seen every single character’s story through, nor explored every nook and cranny. I rarely play through the campaign again.
2. I don’t need to “go all-in gameplay” anymore. I should try the core box first…..or play something I already have.
Also, I live by neither of these….but acknowledgment is a start.
"I should try the core box first..." These are words of wisdom and I wish I followed them too. The FOMO is strong!
I’ve been slowly weaning my expansion on crowdfunding buying
Meeples have more charm than minis ever will, and if screen printed, doubly so!
Meeple! (TM)
Fully with you on legacy games. I have tried a couple and I don't t hink I will ever buy another. I don't generally like committing to campaigns in games and legacy is even worse, because if a group flakes out, there is no starting over. That happened with my first attempt at a legacy game, so the next time I bought one I committed to just doing a 2-player campaign with a friend who would be staying with me a lot. It took us several years before we concluded that campaign and it wound up feeling like a chore to me to do so, and I felt like we could have spent that gaming time playing different games instead. The only reason I even got a third legacy game was because of my mom (she loves everything Ticket to Ride, so I wanted her to have that experience - but I definitely would not have gotten it for any other reason).
TTR and mom! I’m jealous
Yeah, she got madly hooked. It's funny, because she only really played that first time for my dad's sake, but she was the one who got properly hooked (TtR and Catan - though since it's mostly just the two of us playing, Catan wound up on the sidelines) and it's become a thing to gift her whatever new map comes out. She has nearly all of them. I'll probably take the Legacy post-game components with me for her to have, since she'll probably be the only one I will play the finished map with anyway - but I'll keep the box since it holds all of my versions in one place, lol.
I hear you on the miniatures. For example, I thought Primal: The Awaking looked like it might be decent, but the fact it's a deck builder for 200+ to get started because of miniatures that could easily be a cardboard cutout was a major turn off.
Cant argue with that even though i really like Primal
I sold Hegemony for the same reason you sold Voidfall.
I also found out I prefer acrylics standee over minis after playing Beast. And I have so many minis games that I would like to paint but I don't have the time to do it.
I wish I had any skill in painting. I’d feel slightly less bad then
My unpopular opinion is that first point, about miniatures, is quite popular opinion
And yet $$$$ being thrown around also says otherwise 😂
Agree 100% that miniatures are a waste of money and an unnecessary increase in plastic garbage. In the other hand I do have a few games that I love but have trouble getting to the table. Twilight Struggle for example. I will still keep it as I don’t have a single game group and hope to find someone interested. With a limited budget it only makes sense to watch preview and review videos
1. 100% agree. Painted wooden meeples or acrylic standees are much much better in most cases. Vagrantsong standees are a great example.
The only exception is wargames. I prefer minis for those for obvious reasons, because the painting your minis and building you squads are a different type of hobby as it's own.
That’s fair from a war/skirmish style.
I never have gotten the Catan hate. I don't own it anymore, I had a very early version back in the 90s, but I'd play it today if asked, even if I won't seek it out.
For minis/meeples/standees, I love KtHO's awesome meeples, and I use standees in many cases, but I do like the minis for Vast and Wonderland's War. I don't need/want games with tons of the things though. I used to play WFB and 40K, and some other big mini-focused games, but they take up a ton of room and harder to get played with my current group.
I buy games I want to play, so skip lots of Euros that are 'the hotness' since while some are good, many are dull as dishwater, and overpriced to boot. I have some oddballs like Frutti Di Mare, and the Dwar7s games that I have gotten played at least a few times.
I loathe preview videos. I don't even watch them unless already interested in a game before watching, and want to learn more about it. They are too often paid advertisements as you say.
Not a big legacy fan, although I do have the first Clank! one which I still haven't played yet! I do love KtHO's Chronicle mode though, especially the Boss Battles version, as we get to unlock stuff, but no trashing cards (even if we don't need the lock cards after unlocking), can swap players around with no issue, and can change the monsters we play. Legacy games just feel like they should be video games.
I think people have made them their video game feel good too
Already painted or colored mini's would be nice! Always getting these greys is frustrating, unless you're a painter yourself, and if you're one you still need the time...
Totally agree with Legacy Games, I'll avoid them like crazy 😅
I can honestly say that a legacy game was one of the the games I have played more than 95% of the games I know. My friend used the completed board as an art piece in his game room. Otherwise, you're probably right.
Man, I agree with everything you have mentioned*
With that said...
*Full disclosure: I have purchased 3 games without any interest in the games itself, but for the art / painting the miniatures (as a fan of Adrian Smith...): The Others; Rising Sun; and Mordred...
lol. Are you me?
I wouldn't be in this hobby without miniatures. I love seeing them, I love using them, and I love painting them! I fucking hate chips and cardboard standees as a substitute, but plastic standees are OK (still prefer minis). You might like minis more if they were painted.
I value table presence as one of the deciding factors in getting a game. I won't buy a great game if it looks boring or has nothing but cardboard standees. There are too many great games out there with fantastic table presence for me to be concerned about boring artwork/table presence/etc...
I have zero interest in legacy games.
Status symbols? Never heard of them. I mean, sure I have a copy of "the best solo board game of all time hands down" *Mage Knight*
Boy, I love how it sits on the shelf. I have the best solo board game. That makes *ME* cool. Play it? No I never play it. I swoon at the idea of spending 15 minutes on a single turn to run over every single card combo in my hand. I adore realizing I made a single bad choice an hour ago, and now my 3 hour game is totally fucked beyond all recovery. I love a game that makes me feel stupid, and small. I love it! That's why I keep it around. I dusted it off about 6 months ago. Relearned the rules (not that hard really), but after the first in game day decided I made a wrong choice, so instead of suffering for another 2.5 hours, I just packed it up.
What a game! Best solo game ever. AND I HAVE IT. PEOPLE WILL BOW TO IT.
BOW TO MY HUGE BOX PUNY MORTALS!!
I'm not a painter so I'm not into the minis, but I also don't like the little cubes unless they are purely counters or place-holders. For Ameritrash dungeon crawlers I like standees. For Euros I like themed meeples. For counters, cubes or dials are great. Dials address the table-bumping problem but they are often overkill. I will watch preview videos. They are better than poorly made reviews. I've only bought 1 legacy game (Charterstone) and in general I won't consider buying them unless they are "resetable legacy" games. I think you missed one thing to rant about: Tripple-layered boards. It seems double-layered boards aren't deluxe enough any more... :)
Triple layered boards? 😳
What games are using those?
@@BayonetRecon I haven't kept track, but I've seen at least a half-dozen games with them on Kickstarter this year. Usually it is for player boards, not the main board.
I hear what you're saying....but also, as someone who paints a lot, and enjoys campaign games... I prefer miniatures in most cases.
That’s completely fair from a painter
I miss 40$ beige euros with cubes.
Bring back the beige!
Fun rant! So, Kingdom Death Monster is the Antichrist? Countless kickstarters only exist because of cool videos, lots of miniatures, and add ons. There is no way to tell the quality of a game from a commercial (paid review) or a product photo on the kickstarter page.
1) Acrylic standees are much better than plastic minis
2) Wooden meeples are THE GOAT of player tokens and I would take them any day over plastic or even acrylic
👍👍
I have 5 games in the binary range. 2 are new purchases, both couldnt wait due to being a great deal. One is my favourite game from back in the day thst my current team just never wants to play but I keep hoping ill manager to put it on a table with SOME group. Two are big long games I still manager to play once each this year. Idk i think im doing great
:)
Great video, I agree with most points, especially that standees are really under rated. I can't get onboard with just wooden cubes though, that's a step too far beyond the pale for me.
The game I immediately thought of as my Voidfall equivalent is Root. My copium is I'm learning the game slowly via the steam version and I have a group that I think will really enjoy the depth and cut throat nature of it once we've worked up to more difficult games. I've had it for about three months with zero plays and probably won't get it to the table before Christmas.
What are your thoughts on Let's Go to Japan, have you tabled it yet?
I have, feel similar about root too.
Multi game review coming with it in the next week or two. Spoilers: better than I was really expecting
I agree that Pandemic shouldn't have been a destructive Legacy game. We should have had reset kits. The only saving grace for playing Legacy s1 and 2 twice was that you got to complete a 4 box Clock image across the 4 boxes. Despite that I just put the left over boxes on top of my Kitchen Cabinets for display. What makes discarding PL games so painful is knowing how many plastic cubes and such that we would be tossing. UGH!
I agree that minis overinflated our hobby. At the same time, it's become a new hobby for me. I love painting board game minis, and the feeling I get when my friends and family get to play a super delux version of a game (because of the painted minis) is unmatched.
Speaking of unmatched... I never paint minis when they come pre washed. Off the top of my head, unmatched, foundations of Rome, and my father's work. I wish more games came washed.
I like washing too…if it wasn’t another extra cost on top. Painting makes more sense, but too many (ie myself) aren’t so it isn’t as good
I like mini sculpts and enjoy painting. That being said I have a several big games I haven't played yet because I need to paint, and life gets in the way. I don't own a single game as a "status symbol". I own games because I enjoy them.
Good! Nice!
I think people keep games that they should get rid of because they have a fantasy of getting to play it and loving it and having yet another amazing experience.
I think it’s more of a fear of missing out and also not wanting to admit that they wasted their money.
For sure
Minis aren't better than good standees, but a good mini is still awesome... I have no problem with minis as long as they fit in the game box
Standees are prettier than minis. Unless well painted. But most people don't (know how to) paint.
Also the idea of non-replayable legacy game is bad. Very bad.
I like some of them, but destroying pieces is just horrible idea.
It's not a bad idea from every perspective. For one, it's profitable in the short term. (I absolutely agree)
Agreed
Many miniatures actually obscure the board and make game play more difficult. They effectively cast a 'shadow' behind them for players on the wrong side of the board.
Yes!
I agree with your opinions, even though they hurt.. you're right.
I agree that “legacy” games should be replay able to experiment with choices and outcomes (like the epic adventure series; “where did I go so horribly wrong?”), and eliminate the needlessly wasteful concept of a single-use game.
Agreed!
I understand the second point and also agree with it however life got in my way and I need to find a new regular board game group.
When I do have board game groups I like to try to cycle through the games I have.
Then again I think my collection is still reasonably small compared to most people.
What is useful is to find friends who have the games you want to play but not own.
As for legacy games it does have a charm but I feel it is being replaced in favour of repayable campaign games. I wouldn't consider it an unpopular opinion.
It doesn't fit with the trend of avoiding waste.
Replayability is missing the whole point of the consequential nature of legacy game decisions
You speak truth…hard
I do play legacy games like Gloomhaven, Frosthaven, Dungeon Unversalis. For me I don’t think it is a waste, as we play each in full for probably 1.5 years. Then we are done, but after spending a lot of time. I don’t know if a non legacy game can maintain the interest for as long, I doubt it.
I almost don’t view the -havens as legacy but more campaign. They’re a weird hybrid so I don’t hold it totally against them the same
Love these. I think people who regularly watch LoG might agree with most if not all of these so hard to tell how unpopular these really are just by looking at comments 😆
I know right?
Board game success=Cost/play X enjoyment! If table presence, legacy, deluxification, etc. means my wife, kids, or friends want to play it more or enjoy in more then it may be worth it. A game that costs $100 played 10 times is more cost effective than a $50 game played twice even if the enjoyment is the same. But if the game played 10 times is also more enjoyable, the you’d be an idiot to replace it with the $50 game. You can also do the same with hours of entertainment replacing plays in the above equation (=cost/hours of play X enjoyment) and now the epic four hour game only needs to be played twice to be as economical as the 1 hour game played 8 times assuming all else is equal.😊 Trademarked😁
😂👍
Here's a hot take for ya - minis can be great, standees can be great, and mixing both can be great.
lol. Fair
Of the board games I've bought since the pandemic, maybe 25% have EVER been played. I've mostly switched to buying RPG books, as those at least I can read the books and immerse myself into the worlds even if I never play with others.
I feel you hard. Those rpg world building books I’d love to immerse myself with in an ideal dream group as a DM. Sigh….you and me both
I despise games that ask you to mutilate or destroy components (Excepting reprint-able paper components). Playable once then pass it on is fine, but playable once then trash it is total BS.
Agreed
TTR legacy was a pretty good game, my biggest issue was that after the creators took my $125 they tried to make me feel like a POS for buying a railroad themed game lacking a Howard Zinn view of the west in their cultural revolution like self criticism in the rule book
I just can’t pay that much for a TtR like that. In an ideal world, maybe. Maybe. But really, maybe not
Expansions are a blight on our hobby, most of the time.
crowdfunding expansions FOMO FTW
Catan obviously stands up. Its still fun and especially it made german games what they are. Lol.
Legacy games, Gametrayz AND minis are blight to planet earth!
The concept of legacy games is alien to me. Like I would never actually destroy or tear up pieces (or permanently change them somehow) if I want to play the same game in the future. I wouldn’t buy another copy just for a replay
Stay tuned for part 2…😁
I dunno, Spirit Island with standees…
yeah.... i have THE THING boardgame. but no longer play it....
Unpopular opinion: I can enjoy games the way I want to, despite what anyone else says.
Agreed!
I've always disliked miniatures as they almost always look ugly and are sometimes unreasonably heavy for what they do, and if they significantly increase the cost then that's a triple-whammy of yuck. I know that many enjoy painting miniatures and to each their own.
Several months ago I was shocked and pleased to find Assassin's Creed Brotherhood for around $50 instead of the something-like-$200 when it was kickstarted, and I believe that most of the price difference was due to using standees (I may very well be wrong but I was just glad for the game to be affordable).
As for legacy games, I never deface or mangle game components, and instead I find other temporary solutions such as keeping track with pen and paper. I've only played light-legacy games, though, such as Gloomhaven and Frosthaven. I like, though, games such as that (or Middara, Oathsworn, and the like) in which there is a story and an ending, and I do replay games if I like them enough.
:)
I differ a bit with you. I think screen printed custom meeples/buildings/tokens are the best imo. So frickin tired of the plastic minis though. So frickin tired of having to spend months of time painting them unless I want the entire game to look like boring grey plastic.
That’s not too different though, I feel you
Can I have your Marvel United minis? I’ll give you multicolored wooden cubes.
It’d be easier to organize at least…
I don't like minis either. I will proxy wooden meeples in for minis when I play, but I have so few games with minis I don't have to do this often. I disagree with preview videos not being helpful to consumers. I understand they are advertisements meant to showcase a game, but they do provide information. I think preview videos alone are not the best decider of your money, but combined with other sources of opinion they are helpful to me.
If they work for you, that’s what matters thena,
If CMoN games didn’t come with miniatures or standees, how popular would they be? Marvel United with wood cubes? LOL! No. That would require too much imagination to visualize.
You are probably one of those people who prefer the 8 bit graphics in video games. 🤣 High quality graphics make video games more expensive. 🤣
Seriously though, I get what you’re saying about miniatures. For some games I still prefer them over wooden blocks or discs. I’m warming up to standees. Some of them look nice and it’s nice they don’t take up as much space.
Minis are created for tabletop war games because they need to do cover and distance. Minis 99% of are totally useless and also hurt gameplay because of their visual obstruction in board games; For example in Huang and Ankh. Minis added to hobby just created wider appeal (more customers) to mini war gamers and mini painters.
Unpopular opinion: AI art is the future.
Ooof. That’s probably truer than a lot of people would like to hear.
i love it, BG are Status Symbols^^
i love my Status Symbols^^ my treasure^^
you're right: "NO" i fuckin hate Preview Videos, i want Testing Videos. How good is the game, is the Game for me or not?
Legacy Games are "nice", if you have 50 Bucks to burn... like going to the Casino and play against the Bank ;)
I mean. i love my status symbols too lol
I would not get rid of my screen printed meeples in my euro games nor i wouuld not want minis in my dungeon crawlers... ATO without minis (O_o) ?
Legacy games with component destruction can go in hell...
Standees mentioned lets gooo
Where re-match? lol
It's off the boat and released by customs!!! Should arrive at my warehouse this month I'm so hyped.
I rarely watch previews, the few I've watched lately were a waste of time. I atleast want some opinion thrown into it. I also watch reviews backwards. See the score first then final thoughts then the overview. Unless the average score is bad
Deluxification is a blight, especially for euro games. I despise EGG for picking up Rococo and reprinting deluxe only for triple the price of original.
Spirit island has minis no?
It has explorer minis
And houses and the blight...
Unless you got Horizons, which has oversized tokens that actually take up more space than the minis. 😅
Ok fair. Mini minis. But price point samesies
I agree with all of these 😂
Lol
I don't like legacy games because of the cost/replay issue. As far as review videos go, I watch as many as I can before buying. One reviewer may like one mechanic of a game, that another reviewer may not like. I've made purchases in spite of reviewers opinions. Better advice would be not to take the first review as gospel. Watch several and somewhere in the middle your truth will become evident. I also like miniature. I come from the miniature wargame branch of gaming and love painting the figures. But do agree, doing away will make games more affordable, ala, "Foundations of Metropolis". Thank you for the insights.
What? I thought the first opinion and the largest ones were always right? 😂
Legacy games are made, in part, so that there is no used market for them. Want to try it? Have to buy new.
Yeah just not a huge fan 😅
I have played Voidfall.... 3 times in the 8 months I've owned it 😢
❤
As a miniature painter I somewhat disagree 😎
There are too many games period and to much ‘hotness’. In reality they are hot for a month
And there are deffo to many expansions for some games that should have been in the original
As a painter that makes sense, can’t disagree if that’s a big thing for you
So many agree on the "mini" argument. But how much of you still buy these massiv 100x mini games nontheless. As long as this will happen, nothing will change, because mini have the biggest winning margins over every other alternative.
Agreed. Only voting with your wallet ever changes things
I would love to see the counter argument to all of these opinions, conveyed in just as upset/angry manner, simply to show that these opinions aren't correct, but are opinions. I enjoy listening, but i disagree with a lot of these opinions... and i would assume Chris would want it that way, since i don't know that he agrees with anyone full stop.
I may have to accept that challenge now…
Debating myself upcoming…
Haha def unpopular opinions that I disagree with.
This is a luxury hobby and I like minis, and table presence, playing with the minis, sharing them with my family, and painting minis. I also love upgrading board games. Why? I don’t know and I don’t care but it’s fun and relaxing.
My legacy games (big ones) are also getting way more playtime and the campaigns have way more total hours than I would ever be willing to play patchwork or spirit island. Aeon trespass has like 250+ hours in base game, isofarian guard has about 200+ hours. So I don’t think it’s a waste of space and it does support mid-terms to long-term enjoyment
When I’m done, I’ll sell them on eBay not throw them away lol.
Is Aeons End a “legacy game”? I’d argue it’s a campaign game. some legacy games are also campaign games, but not all campaign games are legacy games if that makes sense.
Aeon trespass def a campaign game. I would only say legacy because it would take at least 2 lifetimes to complete more than once 😂
@@Ercnet1 Lol
Completely agree and will continue to do the exact opposite! Lol
lol. Are you me?
Agreed on legacy games… will never buy/play games
My opinion is that crowdfunding has mostly screwed the board game hobby, and promotes many more bloated vastly overpriced poor quality games supported by a legion of self-important so-called “content creators” than it does good ones. Unpopular?
Probably not super unpopular
Most rulebooks are subpar and often ruin the experience.
Oh just wait for that one upcoming…
Standees are horf8ble. Give. Me. More. Plastic. Youre makijg a small caed game? It would be better with some plastic minis. I. Want plastic. As much plastic as its possible. Table presence is king. Its literally among top 3 bests things in games.
Nothing to say about the content itself, bu man, what are you doing to your videos? It looks like there is an intentional 'old-timey' filter on all of your videos. Please upgrade your gear?!
I love these comments like it’s easy to just drop a couple grand for equipment upgrades or as a non media person in the first place, just to “do it” like it’s a button I’m just choosing not to press. I operate in a room less than half the size of most peoples game rooms or filming areas so some stuff is just limited unfortunately too from that aspect. I would if I could man, I would if I could
Dude, I'm not advocating for buying a huge (and expensive) camera setup, but it seems to me that a recently new phone would hands-down produce a better image-quality? And if you're working in a tight space, you would have access to a wide-angle lens.
Table presence isn't what makes me buy a game, it's what makes me look at it in the first place. I refuse to buy ugly and uninspired games for muh mehanics