Here's a bright idea, maybe the mta should stop overbuilding every new subway station and start building up some internal construction skill instead of overly-relying on outsourcing.
@@FalconsEye58094 yep, instead we have janno lieber literally telling us that academic construction cost researchers "aren't experts" (janno lieber, a man who speaks only english and could tell you absolutely nothing about how ile de france is right now delivering 4 brand new automated metro lines for 10 billion dollars less than the MTA's 5 year capital plan)
The IBX is long overdue and I’m glad that they are moving forward with it. I agree with building the 125th St Crosstown line as part of Phase II of the SAS as not only would it be cheaper but they wouldn’t have to assemble the machinery needed for that expansion past 125th Street and Lexington Ave. I also checked out the article on Vanshnookeraggen and I saw that they are considering combining phases 3&4 into phase 3 up to Hanover Square and I hope that happens as the MTA doesn’t have to shell out more money for another phase, and if demand grows then we can link the SAS to Brooklyn or the Bronx. Two derailments on less than a week makes the MTA look very bad and would need to be investigated on what is causing them to happen that often, it was a good thing no one was hurt on todays derailment but the F is now ending at Ave X as of now and the MTA hopes to have F service to Coney Island restored by tomorrow.
My dad is working on the design and engineering they own part of the right of way but not all of it the cost is ridiculous as they have the trackage rights and they are not tunneling. If anyone didn't know the reason they chose light rail is due to a tunnel being pretty sketchy for anything else besides light rail.
Absolutely NOTHING should be built along 125th street; a very nasty active fault line exists along that corridor! The line should instead be extended into the Bronx, to be connected to the extended D train at Co-op City.
@@CraigFThompson a lot of time has passed since this update. First of all the equipment makes sense now its not just about tunnels but freight trains. since they will still run on this right of way the light rail vehicles need to be built for train crashes which subways arent built for since they fall under different federal agencies with this project being built on fra standards while rapid transit like subways being built on fta standards and the two arent the same.
I find the deep bore to be silly. Just do cut and cover and get it over with. And the MTA needs to stop contracting out. They need to hire new construction workers
Other than the effect construction would have on the neighborhood, it’s also not possible because it has to go under existing lines, meaning it needs to be deeper.
Shouldn’t even be negotiable. Idk why light rail is even an option. It would be nice and cute and easy but just make it another subway line. Stop being lazy
totally agreed, that would be a solid option, especially if the trains are automated and come every 2 -5 minutes, that would be a lot of capacity. But without full grade separation they're going to bunch hard on the streetrunning portions and the reliability of the whole line will be shot@@autogun290
Yeah, absolutely right it’s cheaper to just continue work. That is stop and go. Maybe they should do with the originally did just drill the tunnel first
Nice video. I feel like the good luck we've had with IBX so far may be due to the timing. There was just that infrastructure bill under the Biden administration and NYCT is looking to show they've done their homework and need that money. There is also been a huge boom in urbanism and the job growth in Brooklyn/Queens in the last 10 years. The work in Brooklyn and Queens are jobs that are more likely to be unable to be done online, as well.
I also recommend having the new SAS station be at Adam Clayton Powell Jr Blvd and connect both Lenox-125th St On the 2/3 and St Nicholas Ave-125st on the A/B/C/D to make a new Central Harlem complex. Then you don’t have to build as many stations and more focus can be put elsewhere. I live by the upper west side, and I know that would benefit a lot of people. SAS as a whole has the potential to be something way greater than what is planned and the MTA needs to plan ahead for the far future when building this
The IBX being a light rail route with bits on roadway is a very dumb idea. A cross-suburban route; literally going to be the second of its type is gonna have demand people. Learn from london. Look at the NLL on the Overground. Its so busy that between 7 am and 11pm it has trains every 5 minutes and is still rammed. This route is barely in zone 2 i.e within 1-2 miles within what is classified as central london
It makes sense to continue tunnel boring west on 125th Street, it will be so much more efficient. If they had kept the tunnel boring machines going down 2nd Avenue past 72nd Street rather than pulling them out of the tunnels they would have reached Hanover Square long ago.
Although I don't hold out much hope for the 125th Street crosstown extension to SAS becoming a reality, I'm pleased that Kathy Hochul is commissioning a feasibility study into it. As I discussed in the essay and with you guys last year, it makes so much economical and practical sense to incorporate a crosstown extension as part of phase two (especially with the political circumstances capital projects nowadays are built under) I don't know why it wouldn't be considered. Even if the current plan for phase two cannot be ammended to create new stations at Lenox Avenue-125th Street and St. Nicholas Avenue-125th Street, how about at least continue boring the tunnels westwards along the same alignment so the right of way for future construction of stations at the aforementioned locations on 125th Street is preserved? It would be similar to what Amtrak did with the tunnel boxes below Hudson Yards in anticipation of the Gateway Tunnel, and with the SAS tunnels excavated under Second Avenue in the 1970's. Since it was the stations and spacious mezzanines that consumed the lion's share of the budget during phase one of the SAS (and Kathy Hochul claims the MTA has learned from this), then theoretically, extending just the tunnels past St. Nicholas Avenue-125th Street shouldn't inflate the budget significantly enough to make it cost ineffective.
@@TrappistEandProximaBStudios and just stating my response. Buses are not trains, and the M60 is extremely slow and unreliable. And no one is getting rid of the M60 once SAS via 125th gets built. It will still be there. And it will be much faster, as there is less traffic for the buses to get held.
NOTHING should be built along 125th street AT ALL, since a very active fault line exists along that corridor. The line should instead be extended into the Bronx.
Instead of “IBX” light rail they should join the 7 with it after 69 St, they could build two new tracks that split off after 61st Street, it would be easy to do that since the tracks dive down, have the new tracks pass on top of 69th street like 111th St, and then it would turn over the expressway towards Middle Village and would lower onto the Railway tracks and run across the currently planned IBX line. it could be the 11 line to Bay Ridge.
It is going to take centuries at the current rate for NYC to be underwater. Soon is hyperbole. And we should take steps like right now to address climate change. The IBX is needed because it is equivalent of taking off hundreds of thousands of cars daily. Think of the environmental impact of that. Same with SAS via 125th St.
@@jointransitassociationexactly and also projects that can get cars off the road would be that, the SAS, and QueensLink, as those would get cars off the road, QueensLink would play a huge role decongesting the I 678 and the Belt Pkwy. The IBX could be a huge help for decongesting the I 278.
That 2nd Avenue subway could be extended further into new jersey to provide another Hudson river crossing by rail. Greatly shortening alot of journeys from northern Manhattan to new jersey.
And New Jersey are opposed extended NYC subway going to New Jersey. They dont want to handle NYC subway in NJ place.. Alternatvie take PAth Train or NJ transit or Amtrak
It would make sense to add the additional 3 stations across 125th Street on to Phase 2. It would be so much easier to get across town in Harlem. Plus, with the proposed Metro North Hudson Line extension into Penn Station, that would make sense to connect not only the 1 Train, but the Hudson Line as well.
I also recommend having the new SAS station be at Adam Clayton Powell Jr Blvd and connect both Lenox-125th St On the 2/3 and St Nicholas Ave-125st on the A/B/C/D to make a new Central Harlem complex. Then you don’t have to build as many stations and more focus can be put elsewhere. I live by the upper west side, and I know that would benefit a lot of people. SAS as a whole has the potential to be something way greater than what is planned and the MTA needs to plan ahead for the far future when building this
125th Street to Broadway would definitely have an impact on motor traffic above. And it will help to revitalize the entire area. Even so! The #1 line would be the most challenging as a non fare zone would have to be built between the subway and elevated. But the benefits is enormous for college students, I see IBX transitioning into it own agency of light rail lines across the city. Some using highway right of way. Or even street running sections.
Probably some of the best examples of connections are at Woodside where there’s not a lot of walking, just up/down the stairs and you’re there. Thats what every connection for the IBX ought to be, they need to make the effort for that
8.1 billion dollars for a subway serving only one borough is completely insane. That money could’ve have made many more smaller improvements in other boroughs such as connecting Livonia and Junius street stations, Fixing that Jamaica Van Wyck station to be more convenient, maybe connecting Lorimer J and Broadway G stations, Queenslink, etc. if anything, light rail/trolley would’ve been more necessary.
@@jacoanimationstudio-di7hi i don’t mean an out of transfer system. I mean an in transfer system where they simply construct either stairs, an elevator, or escalator at the end of that footbridge that would lead right to the Junius platform. If you walk on the footbridge from Livonia to Junius you can see how close the Junius platform is to the end of the footbridge before walking down the stairs.
For the (1) line connection for the (Q), you would have to either pick Cathedral Parkway, Columbia University, or City College station for direct transfer. Using 125th Street via an out-of-bound transfer would be a bad idea.
@@jointransitassociationif the Q ends at 125th St and Broadway then they would have to make the 1 train transfer as an off system transfer with a free OMNY
The 2nd Avenue Subway should definitely be extended west under 125th Street to Broadway to connect to the 1 Line in the same contract as Phase 2. The MTA should be continuously building with internal planning, design and construction management staff and not relying on consultants. And I hope the MTA eliminates the street running from the IBX and use high floor trams with high platforms at the stations. Ottawa Ontario uses low floor trams and low platforms for its light rail subway, and the beginning of service on the line didn't go well. NYers will not tolerate that!
Construction costs will only continue to spiral out of control until the MTA begins to learn from not only its past and current mistakes but also from other major global cities that deliver subways on time and for a fraction of the cost. Sadly the MTA right now seems intent on telling us that they "don't have a cost problem" despite the fact that they literally suffer the highest construction costs in the world.
Eight years? Look @ China and other industrialized nations. They'd get it done quickly and cheaper with their subways. Don't get me started on high speed rail nationwide---ain't gonna happen ever.
Here's a bright idea, maybe the mta should stop overbuilding every new subway station and start building up some internal construction skill instead of overly-relying on outsourcing.
If they didn’t overbuilt every new station, 8 years to built 3 stations could easily take 4 years
We don’t have thinkers in charge
@@FalconsEye58094 yep, instead we have janno lieber literally telling us that academic construction cost researchers "aren't experts" (janno lieber, a man who speaks only english and could tell you absolutely nothing about how ile de france is right now delivering 4 brand new automated metro lines for 10 billion dollars less than the MTA's 5 year capital plan)
Bro, every other station is so simple. I hate that they wanna build huge concourses for small stations. It just takes longer than it needs to.
You have to overcome a lot of state corruption in order to do this but it needs to be done
The IBX is long overdue and I’m glad that they are moving forward with it. I agree with building the 125th St Crosstown line as part of Phase II of the SAS as not only would it be cheaper but they wouldn’t have to assemble the machinery needed for that expansion past 125th Street and Lexington Ave. I also checked out the article on Vanshnookeraggen and I saw that they are considering combining phases 3&4 into phase 3 up to Hanover Square and I hope that happens as the MTA doesn’t have to shell out more money for another phase, and if demand grows then we can link the SAS to Brooklyn or the Bronx. Two derailments on less than a week makes the MTA look very bad and would need to be investigated on what is causing them to happen that often, it was a good thing no one was hurt on todays derailment but the F is now ending at Ave X as of now and the MTA hopes to have F service to Coney Island restored by tomorrow.
Combining Phase 3 & 4 into phase 3 sounds like the smartest idea that the MTA could do at this moment.
My dad is working on the design and engineering they own part of the right of way but not all of it the cost is ridiculous as they have the trackage rights and they are not tunneling. If anyone didn't know the reason they chose light rail is due to a tunnel being pretty sketchy for anything else besides light rail.
@@emperor192 Which of course makes no sense at all----standard subway equipment could've been used for the IBX.
Absolutely NOTHING should be built along 125th street; a very nasty active fault line exists along that corridor! The line should instead be extended into the Bronx, to be connected to the extended D train at Co-op City.
@@CraigFThompson a lot of time has passed since this update. First of all the equipment makes sense now its not just about tunnels but freight trains. since they will still run on this right of way the light rail vehicles need to be built for train crashes which subways arent built for since they fall under different federal agencies with this project being built on fra standards while rapid transit like subways being built on fta standards and the two arent the same.
I find the deep bore to be silly. Just do cut and cover and get it over with.
And the MTA needs to stop contracting out. They need to hire new construction workers
Other than the effect construction would have on the neighborhood, it’s also not possible because it has to go under existing lines, meaning it needs to be deeper.
IBX absolutely NEEDS to be heavy rail, or at least fully-grade separated. The demand is going to far surpass capacity otherwise
Shouldn’t even be negotiable. Idk why light rail is even an option. It would be nice and cute and easy but just make it another subway line. Stop being lazy
seriously, not sure how "xpress" a tram is going to be, exactly@@trae3290
LRT with Metro style frequencies run are a good option though. I've taken the DLR in London and its quite nice.
totally agreed, that would be a solid option, especially if the trains are automated and come every 2 -5 minutes, that would be a lot of capacity. But without full grade separation they're going to bunch hard on the streetrunning portions and the reliability of the whole line will be shot@@autogun290
@@trae3290yea people are not going to use it if it’s light rail because people don’t want to do paid transfers.So your right subway is a better option
Yeah, absolutely right it’s cheaper to just continue work. That is stop and go. Maybe they should do with the originally did just drill the tunnel first
Will somebody please connect the L train at Lavonia Ave and the 3 train at Junis street?
Nice video.
I feel like the good luck we've had with IBX so far may be due to the timing. There was just that infrastructure bill under the Biden administration and NYCT is looking to show they've done their homework and need that money. There is also been a huge boom in urbanism and the job growth in Brooklyn/Queens in the last 10 years. The work in Brooklyn and Queens are jobs that are more likely to be unable to be done online, as well.
I also recommend having the new SAS station be at Adam Clayton Powell Jr Blvd and connect both Lenox-125th St On the 2/3 and St Nicholas Ave-125st on the A/B/C/D to make a new Central Harlem complex. Then you don’t have to build as many stations and more focus can be put elsewhere. I live by the upper west side, and I know that would benefit a lot of people.
SAS as a whole has the potential to be something way greater than what is planned and the MTA needs to plan ahead for the far future when building this
The IBX being a light rail route with bits on roadway is a very dumb idea. A cross-suburban route; literally going to be the second of its type is gonna have demand people. Learn from london. Look at the NLL on the Overground. Its so busy that between 7 am and 11pm it has trains every 5 minutes and is still rammed. This route is barely in zone 2 i.e within 1-2 miles within what is classified as central london
It makes sense to continue tunnel boring west on 125th Street, it will be so much more efficient. If they had kept the tunnel boring machines going down 2nd Avenue past 72nd Street rather than pulling them out of the tunnels they would have reached Hanover Square long ago.
I’m ngl, the BQX is probably one of the most useless ideas the MTA has had. Are they forgetting about the G?
They need to extend it to the Bronx and then make a crosstown via Bronx
That was the purposed for 2nd Avenue Subway near future extended Bronx . To decreased over-crowded riding on 4 , 5 , 6 line.
EXACTLY! The 2nd avenue line could connect with an extended D train from 205th/Norwood to Co-op City.
Although I don't hold out much hope for the 125th Street crosstown extension to SAS becoming a reality, I'm pleased that Kathy Hochul is commissioning a feasibility study into it. As I discussed in the essay and with you guys last year, it makes so much economical and practical sense to incorporate a crosstown extension as part of phase two (especially with the political circumstances capital projects nowadays are built under) I don't know why it wouldn't be considered.
Even if the current plan for phase two cannot be ammended to create new stations at Lenox Avenue-125th Street and St. Nicholas Avenue-125th Street, how about at least continue boring the tunnels westwards along the same alignment so the right of way for future construction of stations at the aforementioned locations on 125th Street is preserved?
It would be similar to what Amtrak did with the tunnel boxes below Hudson Yards in anticipation of the Gateway Tunnel, and with the SAS tunnels excavated under Second Avenue in the 1970's.
Since it was the stations and spacious mezzanines that consumed the lion's share of the budget during phase one of the SAS (and Kathy Hochul claims the MTA has learned from this), then theoretically, extending just the tunnels past St. Nicholas Avenue-125th Street shouldn't inflate the budget significantly enough to make it cost ineffective.
How about finishing the ORIGINAL project before proposing extra s**t.
💯
I think that the MTA should not build the 125 St Crosstown Line as it would ruin the purpose of the M60 SBS. At least in Manhattan.
That makes no sense. Buses are not trains.
@@jointransitassociation just stating my opinion
@@TrappistEandProximaBStudios and just stating my response. Buses are not trains, and the M60 is extremely slow and unreliable.
And no one is getting rid of the M60 once SAS via 125th gets built. It will still be there. And it will be much faster, as there is less traffic for the buses to get held.
@@jointransitassociationok noted
NOTHING should be built along 125th street AT ALL, since a very active fault line exists along that corridor. The line should instead be extended into the Bronx.
NYC is trying to be like Montreal with the SAS
Instead of “IBX” light rail they should join the 7 with it after 69 St, they could build two new tracks that split off after 61st Street, it would be easy to do that since the tracks dive down, have the new tracks pass on top of 69th street like 111th St, and then it would turn over the expressway towards Middle Village and would lower onto the Railway tracks and run across the currently planned IBX line. it could be the 11 line to Bay Ridge.
The elephant in the room: due to climate change/global warming, New York City will be underwater soon. Why waste the energy, time, and money anymore?
It is going to take centuries at the current rate for NYC to be underwater. Soon is hyperbole.
And we should take steps like right now to address climate change. The IBX is needed because it is equivalent of taking off hundreds of thousands of cars daily. Think of the environmental impact of that. Same with SAS via 125th St.
@@jointransitassociation This has been known about and talked about for over fifteen (15!) years--yet, very, very little has been done about it.
@@elyzsabethahne2116 Yeah and we need to do something about it. Having a defeatist attitude sure isn't going to change anything.
@@elyzsabethahne2116hey about you learn some MTA history
@@jointransitassociationexactly and also projects that can get cars off the road would be that, the SAS, and QueensLink, as those would get cars off the road, QueensLink would play a huge role decongesting the I 678 and the Belt Pkwy. The IBX could be a huge help for decongesting the I 278.
That 2nd Avenue subway could be extended further into new jersey to provide another Hudson river crossing by rail. Greatly shortening alot of journeys from northern Manhattan to new jersey.
Upper NJ desperately needs that
How is it going to possible if it’s two different states
@@AMBallProduction it is possible for two different states to agree to fund and build something that benefits both.
And New Jersey are opposed extended NYC subway going to New Jersey. They dont want to handle NYC subway in NJ place.. Alternatvie take PAth Train or NJ transit or Amtrak
The subway crossing state lines would subject the entire MTA to federal regulation.
It would make sense to add the additional 3 stations across 125th Street on to Phase 2. It would be so much easier to get across town in Harlem. Plus, with the proposed Metro North Hudson Line extension into Penn Station, that would make sense to connect not only the 1 Train, but the Hudson Line as well.
I also recommend having the new SAS station be at Adam Clayton Powell Jr Blvd and connect both Lenox-125th St On the 2/3 and St Nicholas Ave-125st on the A/B/C/D to make a new Central Harlem complex. Then you don’t have to build as many stations and more focus can be put elsewhere. I live by the upper west side, and I know that would benefit a lot of people.
SAS as a whole has the potential to be something way greater than what is planned and the MTA needs to plan ahead for the far future when building this
And an earthquake along that fault line will bring everything to ruin....
It would've made MUCH MORE SENSE to take the 2nd avenue line into the Bronx.
no street runing would allow driverless operation
And even in THAT case, there'd still need to be a human operator on board....
nice to see IBX moving onwards fast, though a little concern about capacity since they used light rail.
I am just so glad that it isn't BRT. I'll take what I can get
125th Street to Broadway would definitely have an impact on motor traffic above. And it will help to revitalize the entire area.
Even so! The #1 line would be the most challenging as a non fare zone would have to be built between the subway and elevated. But the benefits is enormous for college students,
I see IBX transitioning into it own agency of light rail lines across the city. Some using highway right of way. Or even street running sections.
Probably some of the best examples of connections are at Woodside where there’s not a lot of walking, just up/down the stairs and you’re there. Thats what every connection for the IBX ought to be, they need to make the effort for that
8.1 billion dollars for a subway serving only one borough is completely insane. That money could’ve have made many more smaller improvements in other boroughs such as connecting Livonia and Junius street stations, Fixing that Jamaica Van Wyck station to be more convenient, maybe connecting Lorimer J and Broadway G stations, Queenslink, etc. if anything, light rail/trolley would’ve been more necessary.
One of those things has already happened.
@@jacoanimationstudio-di7hi which one?
Livonia and Junius
@@jacoanimationstudio-di7hi i don’t mean an out of transfer system. I mean an in transfer system where they simply construct either stairs, an elevator, or escalator at the end of that footbridge that would lead right to the Junius platform. If you walk on the footbridge from Livonia to Junius you can see how close the Junius platform is to the end of the footbridge before walking down the stairs.
@@calvinkendrick851 oh ok
They would be better off extending the L line to the upper west side.
I feel the Q should go from Lex-125th (4)(5)(6) then to Lenox 135th (2)(3) then end at St Nic 145th (A)(C)(B)(D)
Extended Q to 145 st? Q line have easy access to 207 street yard and Concourse yard
What an interesting way to start the year
For the (1) line connection for the (Q), you would have to either pick Cathedral Parkway, Columbia University, or City College station for direct transfer. Using 125th Street via an out-of-bound transfer would be a bad idea.
Yes, we recognize that. I am just putting what the Governor and the MTA has come out saying.
@@jointransitassociationif the Q ends at 125th St and Broadway then they would have to make the 1 train transfer as an off system transfer with a free OMNY
With all the migrants coming in and all the budget cuts doubt it will get done soon. its a shame to see NY decline so fast.
The 2nd Avenue Subway should definitely be extended west under 125th Street to Broadway to connect to the 1 Line in the same contract as Phase 2. The MTA should be continuously building with internal planning, design and construction management staff and not relying on consultants.
And I hope the MTA eliminates the street running from the IBX and use high floor trams with high platforms at the stations. Ottawa Ontario uses low floor trams and low platforms for its light rail subway, and the beginning of service on the line didn't go well. NYers will not tolerate that!
Construction costs will only continue to spiral out of control until the MTA begins to learn from not only its past and current mistakes but also from other major global cities that deliver subways on time and for a fraction of the cost. Sadly the MTA right now seems intent on telling us that they "don't have a cost problem" despite the fact that they literally suffer the highest construction costs in the world.
Construction costs in New York City are much higher than almost every other city in the world....
ibx is being cheaper then 2nd ave subway shows ibx would be better but ibx should be self driving cuz it looks cool and would be able to flex it
This nyc self driving isn’t a thing
Eight years? Look @ China and other industrialized nations. They'd get it done quickly and cheaper with their subways. Don't get me started on high speed rail nationwide---ain't gonna happen ever.
Go learn how the US government doesn’t care about public transportation and learn MTA history
In China, the government owns the people. That's why they're so able to complete projects quickly.