There seems to be a lot of confusion around Greninja ex’s Mirage Barrage attack and how it works with Double Turbo Energy. Did some digging and based on my findings, it should in fact do 100 instead of 120 and this is wrong in Pokemon TCG Live. Pokemon TCG Live confirms it’s a glitch in their latest patch notes: x.com/trustyourpilot1/status/1801721116995817737?s=46&t=WvvseieK6nMMQ6rerZFlFw OFFICIAL FAQ FROM POKEMON JAPAN: www.pokemon-card.com/rules/faq/search.php?freeword=-20®ulation_faq_main_item1=XY When using the trick "Bunshinrenda" of Gekkouga ex and trashing the "double turbo energy" attached to Gekkouga ex, the damage is "-20" with the effect of "double turbo energy" and the trick "Bunshinre Which one do you do first to trash "double turbo energy" with the effect of "da"? First, "-20" the damage with the effect of "double turbo energy". www.reddit.com/r/pkmntcg/s/4quX8Q3yD1 pokegym.net/community/index.php?threads/does-double-turbo-energy-affect-tera-greninja-ex-and-wellspring-ogerpon-exs-attacks.192844/ www.reddit.com/r/PokemonTCG/comments/1d7dbmd/so_what_is_the_correct_ruling_for_greninja_exs/ x.com/fluffyleafeon/status/1794058717081555083?s=46&t=WvvseieK6nMMQ6rerZFlFw x.com/trustyourpilot1/status/1794057091487002968?s=46&t=WvvseieK6nMMQ6rerZFlFw x.com/chimoesport/status/1797959415905312768?s=46&t=WvvseieK6nMMQ6rerZFlFw x.com/anzasquiddles/status/1798926287211557305?s=46&t=WvvseieK6nMMQ6rerZFlFw
I personally think they need to revise the rules for the DTE/ all current and future attacks of this style. discarding energy is a cost to use the attack. So any modifiers from said energy shouldn't apply to damage once they are not on the pokemon.
I don’t think it’s a glitch, one of the requirements to use the attack is to discard 2 energy. Once you discard the double energy card its effect is no long affecting the attack.
Confirmed -20 damage from Pokemon Japan’s official FAQ. www.pokemon-card.com/rules/faq/search.php?freeword=-20®ulation_faq_main_item1=XY Here’s the link to the exact ruling on Pokemon Japan’s website. “When using the trick "Bunshinrenda" of Gekkouga ex and trashing the "double turbo energy" attached to Gekkouga ex, the damage is "-20" with the effect of "double turbo energy" and the trick "Bunshinre Which one do you do first to trash "double turbo energy" with the effect of "da"? First, "-20" the damage with the effect of "double turbo energy".”
Pokemon TCG Live confirms it’s a glitch and they’re fixing it next week: x.com/trustyourpilot1/status/1801721116995817737?s=46&t=WvvseieK6nMMQ6rerZFlFw
I run Jamming Tower, in hopes of buying a turn or two if I’m concerned about Devo. Great for the other junk in Gardy, etc, too. Haven’t decided whether a 1-1 Bib line is worth it yet. Cheers!
Damage is calculated after the double turbo is no longer attached. Its in the professor program list of operations per turn. Its not a glitch. Been a judge for 10 plus years. If you have a water engery and a dte and choose to use the 170 attack, then it would be reduced to 150 since the dte is still attached. Order of operations. Just like math pemdas.
The links you posed weren't really helpful at all. To reference the basfalon gx were the beast energy is sent to the lost zone. The 30 damage buff is negated due the energy being discarded before damage is calculated. So be there for not getting the 30 buff.
www.pokemon-card.com/rules/faq/search.php?freeword=-20®ulation_faq_main_item1=XY Here’s the link to the exact ruling on Pokemon Japan’s website. “When using the trick "Bunshinrenda" of Gekkouga ex and trashing the "double turbo energy" attached to Gekkouga ex, the damage is "-20" with the effect of "double turbo energy" and the trick "Bunshinre Which one do you do first to trash "double turbo energy" with the effect of "da"? First, "-20" the damage with the effect of "double turbo energy".”
Pokemon TCG Live confirms it’s a glitch and they’re fixing it next week: x.com/trustyourpilot1/status/1801721116995817737?s=46&t=WvvseieK6nMMQ6rerZFlFw
It should only be dealing 100, because of sequencing. Attack damage is always calculated first Even with the discard. Personally, the second attack is bugged but theres actually a duo greninja (water/fighting) ex deck which is great with palkia and i recommend giving it a try
The order of operations follow the same idea with delphox v and radiant greninja,if you attach a dte to it as well. Youre welcome to look into the rulebook, or ask a judge. Greninja is just a bad card when explained at the end with its matchups. Id have to think palkia is just the better engine, or simply play the double gren ex deck i previously mentioned. Until its fixed however, it will do 120, instead of its proper 100. Though, a neo upper energy may be the way to go for a swift attack i guess
a REALLY good example is Blacephalon GX and its Beast Energy. The +30 is calculated even after being sent to the lost zone, though you take it off the pokemon first. All damage is calculated before any discard of energy, no matter what. A sinnoh is the only way to make it deal 120 damage, which actually, is not a bad idea for this deck. If youre still confused, you can use mew EX copying rad greninja as an example too! It deals 70 damage when you discard a DTE. I tried explaining the best i could, so hopefully I did well
@@qtAlexx_YT I don tthink blacephalon GX reads the same. but Rad greninja does. But that just kinda makes for bad card text. It is also a sad reality of greninja ex, cause it would be a good card not broken. But I think you lose too many KO's without froslass now
Checked on TCG live, with Radiant Greninja, put double turbo in a Chien-Pao list. I put double turbo on the rad greninja and it reduces damage. It is the same order for the text but the difference was in game you discarded the energy from the rad greninja after you attacked. At least that’s how I remember it from my test. So it’s just a bug in the code probably or the devs just being inconsistent.
@@chimosgameclub9765 neo upper is useless on greninja, u have DtE for that. But prime vs unfair stamp vs Hyper aroma is the real question( depending if u play froslass variation or not)
@@orion1694 I would argue that Neo upper has its usage if its true that DTE is a bug. with neo upper greninja KO's bibareal, Iron hands in active. Baby miraidon. with DTE it misses the KO.
@@MusicSkeletonKeys The sad thing is that you know miss KO on Ironhands, Minchino, Bibareal, 2hit ko on lugia V munkidori(thou it often has damage counter on it) the 120 is a really good number, and I honestly believe it might be what makes or breaks it
Hi yesterday on Pokémon tcg live I attached a luminous energy to ground ogerpon for his ground energy and 2 fires for the other energy and it said I couldn’t attack
For me greninja ex with frosslass is so broken its so frustrating. Its my new charizard ex . Geninja ex makes me concede almost every time. 170 with 330 hp is way too much for 1 energy . I cant wait for stellar crown so that there will be atleast some sort of counter to greninja ex . There is a tournament in my area in a couple days and its probably gonna . Cant wait for 1 month straight of greninja ex 😢😢
ARGAAAAAAAH! ITS NOT A GLITCH FFS! You do 120 with 1x Water and 1xDTE! Its DISCARD 2 ENERGY THEN DEAL 120 TO TWO POKEMONS! Once you discard double turbo its NO LONGER ATTACHED TO CARD so why would u do only 100? MIRRAGE BARRAGE DOES 2x120!
Incorrect. See the pinned post of this video with the proper rule clarification from Pokegym and other top players and content creators in the Pokemon TCG community.
Confirmed -20 damage from Pokemon Japan’s official FAQ. www.pokemon-card.com/rules/faq/search.php?freeword=-20®ulation_faq_main_item1=XY Here’s the link to the exact ruling on Pokemon Japan’s website. “When using the trick "Bunshinrenda" of Gekkouga ex and trashing the "double turbo energy" attached to Gekkouga ex, the damage is "-20" with the effect of "double turbo energy" and the trick "Bunshinre Which one do you do first to trash "double turbo energy" with the effect of "da"? First, "-20" the damage with the effect of "double turbo energy".”
Pokemon TCG Live confirms it’s a glitch and they’re fixing it next week: x.com/trustyourpilot1/status/1801721116995817737?s=46&t=WvvseieK6nMMQ6rerZFlFw
What's the first thing you'd cut for one more item? I'd really like to add 1 switch card. Actually just got Greninjas this weekend with my son to build a deck, and was happy to see your video show up as I've been deciding on the last few spots. I've played it a little online and I've had a few instances I've just been stuck and lost because I couldn't switch my active. One annoying control card had an attack that prevented me from retreating, I forgot the Pokemon name.
@@InThirdPerson Do you think there are ethical issues around exploiting mirage barrage? Been trying not to take any 120 kos like the bibarel honestly..
For casual players without access to judges, the game is the truth. I think a lot of people are taking knockouts completely ignorant of rulings. And to be fair, the card does a very poor job explaining things.
Pokemon TCG Live confirms it’s a glitch and they’re fixing it next week: x.com/trustyourpilot1/status/1801721116995817737?s=46&t=WvvseieK6nMMQ6rerZFlFw
There seems to be a lot of confusion around Greninja ex’s Mirage Barrage attack and how it works with Double Turbo Energy.
Did some digging and based on my findings, it should in fact do 100 instead of 120 and this is wrong in Pokemon TCG Live.
Pokemon TCG Live confirms it’s a glitch in their latest patch notes: x.com/trustyourpilot1/status/1801721116995817737?s=46&t=WvvseieK6nMMQ6rerZFlFw
OFFICIAL FAQ FROM POKEMON JAPAN: www.pokemon-card.com/rules/faq/search.php?freeword=-20®ulation_faq_main_item1=XY
When using the trick "Bunshinrenda" of Gekkouga ex and trashing the "double turbo energy" attached to Gekkouga ex, the damage is "-20" with the effect of "double turbo energy" and the trick "Bunshinre Which one do you do first to trash "double turbo energy" with the effect of "da"?
First, "-20" the damage with the effect of "double turbo energy".
www.reddit.com/r/pkmntcg/s/4quX8Q3yD1
pokegym.net/community/index.php?threads/does-double-turbo-energy-affect-tera-greninja-ex-and-wellspring-ogerpon-exs-attacks.192844/
www.reddit.com/r/PokemonTCG/comments/1d7dbmd/so_what_is_the_correct_ruling_for_greninja_exs/
x.com/fluffyleafeon/status/1794058717081555083?s=46&t=WvvseieK6nMMQ6rerZFlFw
x.com/trustyourpilot1/status/1794057091487002968?s=46&t=WvvseieK6nMMQ6rerZFlFw
x.com/chimoesport/status/1797959415905312768?s=46&t=WvvseieK6nMMQ6rerZFlFw
x.com/anzasquiddles/status/1798926287211557305?s=46&t=WvvseieK6nMMQ6rerZFlFw
Thnx for the search and i have a question why the obf pidgey ?
@@bryangroothuis1489 i use the other one it's the same my game isn't affected at all
170 dmg is insane for 1 energy. Same with the attack of dragapult ex. My giratina lost box is alr losing by turn 3
I personally think they need to revise the rules for the DTE/ all current and future attacks of this style. discarding energy is a cost to use the attack. So any modifiers from said energy shouldn't apply to damage once they are not on the pokemon.
I don’t think it’s a glitch, one of the requirements to use the attack is to discard 2 energy. Once you discard the double energy card its effect is no long affecting the attack.
Confirmed -20 damage from Pokemon Japan’s official FAQ.
www.pokemon-card.com/rules/faq/search.php?freeword=-20®ulation_faq_main_item1=XY
Here’s the link to the exact ruling on Pokemon Japan’s website.
“When using the trick "Bunshinrenda" of Gekkouga ex and trashing the "double turbo energy" attached to Gekkouga ex, the damage is "-20" with the effect of "double turbo energy" and the trick "Bunshinre Which one do you do first to trash "double turbo energy" with the effect of "da"?
First, "-20" the damage with the effect of "double turbo energy".”
Pokemon TCG Live confirms it’s a glitch and they’re fixing it next week: x.com/trustyourpilot1/status/1801721116995817737?s=46&t=WvvseieK6nMMQ6rerZFlFw
I run Jamming Tower, in hopes of buying a turn or two if I’m concerned about Devo. Great for the other junk in Gardy, etc, too. Haven’t decided whether a 1-1 Bib line is worth it yet. Cheers!
Damage is calculated after the double turbo is no longer attached. Its in the professor program list of operations per turn. Its not a glitch. Been a judge for 10 plus years. If you have a water engery and a dte and choose to use the 170 attack, then it would be reduced to 150 since the dte is still attached. Order of operations. Just like math pemdas.
The links you posed weren't really helpful at all. To reference the basfalon gx were the beast energy is sent to the lost zone. The 30 damage buff is negated due the energy being discarded before damage is calculated. So be there for not getting the 30 buff.
www.pokemon-card.com/rules/faq/search.php?freeword=-20®ulation_faq_main_item1=XY
Here’s the link to the exact ruling on Pokemon Japan’s website.
“When using the trick "Bunshinrenda" of Gekkouga ex and trashing the "double turbo energy" attached to Gekkouga ex, the damage is "-20" with the effect of "double turbo energy" and the trick "Bunshinre Which one do you do first to trash "double turbo energy" with the effect of "da"?
First, "-20" the damage with the effect of "double turbo energy".”
Pokemon TCG Live confirms it’s a glitch and they’re fixing it next week: x.com/trustyourpilot1/status/1801721116995817737?s=46&t=WvvseieK6nMMQ6rerZFlFw
It should only be dealing 100, because of sequencing. Attack damage is always calculated first Even with the discard. Personally, the second attack is bugged but theres actually a duo greninja (water/fighting) ex deck which is great with palkia and i recommend giving it a try
No it should not. Its discard then deal dmg. If it was deal dmg then discard - yes 2x100. As it is its discard 2 enery and do 2x120.
No sir. It says discard two energy First. It's the first thing it says. So the chain works like that. You discard 2 energy and THEN you do damage.
The order of operations follow the same idea with delphox v and radiant greninja,if you attach a dte to it as well. Youre welcome to look into the rulebook, or ask a judge.
Greninja is just a bad card when explained at the end with its matchups. Id have to think palkia is just the better engine, or simply play the double gren ex deck i previously mentioned.
Until its fixed however, it will do 120, instead of its proper 100. Though, a neo upper energy may be the way to go for a swift attack i guess
a REALLY good example is Blacephalon GX and its Beast Energy. The +30 is calculated even after being sent to the lost zone, though you take it off the pokemon first.
All damage is calculated before any discard of energy, no matter what. A sinnoh is the only way to make it deal 120 damage, which actually, is not a bad idea for this deck.
If youre still confused, you can use mew EX copying rad greninja as an example too! It deals 70 damage when you discard a DTE. I tried explaining the best i could, so hopefully I did well
@@qtAlexx_YT I don tthink blacephalon GX reads the same. but Rad greninja does. But that just kinda makes for bad card text. It is also a sad reality of greninja ex, cause it would be a good card not broken. But I think you lose too many KO's without froslass now
Checked on TCG live, with Radiant Greninja, put double turbo in a Chien-Pao list. I put double turbo on the rad greninja and it reduces damage. It is the same order for the text but the difference was in game you discarded the energy from the rad greninja after you attacked. At least that’s how I remember it from my test. So it’s just a bug in the code probably or the devs just being inconsistent.
By bug in code I mean with the Greninja ex.
OMG i'm loving this deck, they totld me to use Greninja EX with Froslass but this is better
My Greninja Froslass video comes out on Friday! Really though go with whichever version you like.
I like your list, what do you think of a froslass build? What do you like better?
I haven’t tried the Frosslass build yet but I’m considering trying it out for the channel!
@@InThirdPerson I’ll stay tuned, I think I’m ganna build your list irl
I have had great success with Greninja EX, it has insane MU vs Iron hands, Rotom V. I do think that Forstlass is better vs Raging pon decks
Honestly the hard choice is the Ace specs. Neo upper, Prime and unfair stamp all works
@@chimosgameclub9765 neo upper is useless on greninja, u have DtE for that. But prime vs unfair stamp vs Hyper aroma is the real question( depending if u play froslass variation or not)
If Manaphy is out of the picture, Barrage into an active Rotom for knockout + 100 elsewhere is superb.
@@orion1694 I would argue that Neo upper has its usage if its true that DTE is a bug. with neo upper greninja KO's bibareal, Iron hands in active. Baby miraidon. with DTE it misses the KO.
@@MusicSkeletonKeys The sad thing is that you know miss KO on Ironhands, Minchino, Bibareal, 2hit ko on lugia V munkidori(thou it often has damage counter on it) the 120 is a really good number, and I honestly believe it might be what makes or breaks it
What about Baxcalibur as a energyzer, palky vstar and hussian basculigeon?
That’s certainly a way to play it!
29:50, they want to draw more cards
Hi yesterday on Pokémon tcg live I attached a luminous energy to ground ogerpon for his ground energy and 2 fires for the other energy and it said I couldn’t attack
For me greninja ex with frosslass is so broken its so frustrating. Its my new charizard ex . Geninja ex makes me concede almost every time. 170 with 330 hp is way too much for 1 energy . I cant wait for stellar crown so that there will be atleast some sort of counter to greninja ex . There is a tournament in my area in a couple days and its probably gonna . Cant wait for 1 month straight of greninja ex 😢😢
ARGAAAAAAAH! ITS NOT A GLITCH FFS! You do 120 with 1x Water and 1xDTE! Its DISCARD 2 ENERGY THEN DEAL 120 TO TWO POKEMONS! Once you discard double turbo its NO LONGER ATTACHED TO CARD so why would u do only 100? MIRRAGE BARRAGE DOES 2x120!
exactly
Bingo 💯
🤫🤫🤫 can't u see this is a library 📚📚📚
You can argue all you want but the correct ruling is 100 damage. You can ask any judge on pokemon event they will tell you the same
@@firasatha2916agreed. There is an official ruling on how attacks work
2×120 its an affect of an attack not base damage
Incorrect. See the pinned post of this video with the proper rule clarification from Pokegym and other top players and content creators in the Pokemon TCG community.
Confirmed -20 damage from Pokemon Japan’s official FAQ.
www.pokemon-card.com/rules/faq/search.php?freeword=-20®ulation_faq_main_item1=XY
Here’s the link to the exact ruling on Pokemon Japan’s website.
“When using the trick "Bunshinrenda" of Gekkouga ex and trashing the "double turbo energy" attached to Gekkouga ex, the damage is "-20" with the effect of "double turbo energy" and the trick "Bunshinre Which one do you do first to trash "double turbo energy" with the effect of "da"?
First, "-20" the damage with the effect of "double turbo energy".”
Pokemon TCG Live confirms it’s a glitch and they’re fixing it next week: x.com/trustyourpilot1/status/1801721116995817737?s=46&t=WvvseieK6nMMQ6rerZFlFw
Cool thanks
What's the first thing you'd cut for one more item? I'd really like to add 1 switch card.
Actually just got Greninjas this weekend with my son to build a deck, and was happy to see your video show up as I've been deciding on the last few spots. I've played it a little online and I've had a few instances I've just been stuck and lost because I couldn't switch my active. One annoying control card had an attack that prevented me from retreating, I forgot the Pokemon name.
Awesome Man!
Anyone tried radiant blastoise?
You never have a reason to attach two water to Greninja, as Greninja discard DTE it no longer reduces the damage from 120 to 100.
There currently is no damage reduction because it’s a known glitch. Double Turbo should reduce the damage to 100.
www.reddit.com/r/PTCGL/s/gZ7iq09mnC
@@InThirdPerson it doesn't
@@InThirdPerson Do you think there are ethical issues around exploiting mirage barrage? Been trying not to take any 120 kos like the bibarel honestly..
For casual players without access to judges, the game is the truth. I think a lot of people are taking knockouts completely ignorant of rulings. And to be fair, the card does a very poor job explaining things.
@@MusicSkeletonKeys If you come from anyother card game. it would be like that.
Its not a glitch. Its intended
Pokemon TCG Live confirms it’s a glitch and they’re fixing it next week: x.com/trustyourpilot1/status/1801721116995817737?s=46&t=WvvseieK6nMMQ6rerZFlFw