My advice: Get a way to make square cuts efficiently first, then look at getting parallel guides. The reason I think the above is the correct advice is threefold. First, making square cuts is a far more common requirement than parallel cuts. Secondly, using parallel guides to copy a square corner introduces a small error in the same direction each time the previous cut edge is used as the new datum. This can be cancelled out by swapping the parallel guides for each cut, but is a ballache to do! Finally, if you have a lot of parallel cuts to make, it's easy enough to cut a couple of pieces of scrap to the correct width to act as a jig. It's a lot more difficult to improvise something to get repeatable square cuts!
Thank you Peter. I have been struggling with this for the past few days. I found plenty of reviews but this is the first side by side rail squares vs parallel guides.
I have both the guides and square and an mft setup with a 120 benchdogs fence, you can use 1 parralel guide together with the square for repeated square cuts for when i need to do wider repaeted cuts that wont fit my crosscut fence setup. Love the products from them! Thanks for discovering them for us 🤗🤗
I am not a carpenter, but I do not know the value of another piece of parallelism guide. One piece with the squaring tool is sufficient to repeat the pieces in a perpendicular and equal manner on both sides. Right?
Thanks for the video Peter. I recently purchased a Festool Rail Square but I have to say I use your DIY parallel guides. They have worked so well I don't feel the need to buy any others. Thankyou once again.
I recently discovered the TSO system and it is great as you can use one parallel track plus a rail square simultaneously. The track acts as the measurement tool! Pricey yes, but this is my preferred cutting system replacing an MFT centric system. So if you havent bought an MFT yet, the pricing is more competitive vs MFT. And if you truly need the parallel function, just drop in the second track.
Whew! Looks like they have a DeWalt option. Just ordered and thanks for the 5% discount. I don't have a truck just a Jeep. So I often find myself taking some foam boards, cordless tracksaw and cutting up the plywood in the parking lot. Getting more square cuts in the parking lot cuts down on my workload so it's much appreciated.
@@williamdyer4431 Benchdog UK has a square rail for DeWalt. But not parallel guides. DeWalt tracksaw works on Festool track. So that's another route if you need the parallel guides.
super nice advice, I think parallel guides are good if you need to make odd size parallel cuts but for cabinetry you can just cut a few pieces of wood, clamp them and use this as your guide
Thanks for another well thought out presentation and your thoughts on workflow. My usual kitchen cabinet flow is to rip my plywood lengthwise with the grain into 2’ (lowers) and/or 1’ (uppers) strips (really 23-1/4” or 11-1/4” to accommodate face frames), then cross-cutting those strips into the various lengths needed for the desired height of the respective uppers or lowers. The ripping operation only has three to five cuts per sheet, so would make use of a long rail on tape measured marks. However the cross-cutting operation has come to depend on the guide-rail square. For a less than 2-foot cross-cut, the TSO square on a 39” (okay, really a 1 meter) rail is quick and accurate and not cumbersome. Money well spent. I wanted to try parallel guides for the ripping operation, but didn’t want to risk the $500 or so when tape measured marks had proven accurate enough. So I bought some short sections of t-track and had one of my mechanical engineer buddies 3-D print the other bits in plastic. The 3-D printed parts have proven accurate enough, and the repeated cuts have been quick and accurate, but the combination of a long guide rail with the parallel guides at each end has proven a bit unwieldy in confined spaces. To go from the reference edge cut to the other cuts I have to flip the rail around (a hassle by itself) but then attach the parallel guides, and being right handed with a right handed plunge saw, step around the protruding t-track trying not to catch the cord and dust hose while I pass. Though I am thinking of some mods as I work through the niggles, I am glad I only have about $100 invested. Have others had similar experiences with the commercial units?
Thanks Todd! I made my own PGs as well, but I only use them on shorter cuts, as mentioned in the vid. And they’re shorter rails too - good enough for a ~620mm (24”+) rip. Be interested to hear others experience too! 👍👍
Here is a trick to achieve parallel sides with only a rail square. Say you have a sheet of plywood out of which you want to cut a rectangle of a certain length and width and you want the corners to be square and the sides to be parallel. You have an accurate rail square with an angle error of only 0.01 degrees. Let us focus on the squareness and parallelness and ignore the dimensions. You begin by cutting the lower edge, edge 1. You put the rail square against edge 1 and cut the right edge, edge 2. The angle is only 89.99 degrees due to the rail square error. If you continue in the same way and cut edge 3 it will not be parallel to edge 1 due to the angle error. However, if you flip over the sheet so that edge 1 is still at the bottom but edge 2 is to the left and edge 4 is to the right, place the rail square against edge 2 and cut edge 3 you will be cutting on the opposite side of the rail square and the angle errors will cancel. As a result, edge 3 and edge 1 will be parallel. In order to cut edge 4 so it is parallel to edge 2, flip the sheet over to its original position, place the rail square against edge 3 and cut edge 4. Now edge 4 will be parallel to edge 2 since the angle errors are the same.
thanks for this new vid and advises, being french it's always a great pleasure to train my English with your vid's 😃 Out of this i use the BenchdogUK square model 1
The squares and parallel guides really fit two different uses, although they kind of overlap a little and do complement each other... squaring up the cut vs. easily setting up the width of a cut. I have the TSO system myself and they integrate together when desired to do both functions. TSO makes a great modular system IMHO. Love them for the relative ease of use and accuracy... but they are expensive, like you said the guides can be. I break down sheet goods in my garage with the track saw before I can get them down into my basement shop and the table saw. Many times the track saw cuts are plenty good enough and I don't have to re-cut (adjust) the pieces further before use. I actually keep a cheap Chinese knock-off small square on my short 39 inch guide for cuts I can't do on my miter saw. Plenty accurate over the 8 to ~24 inch cuts I use it for.
Just got my benchdog rail square and did the 5 cut method on a peice of ply. Ive been a joiner for 40 years way back before the battery drill or any battery tool what a F__ki_G game changer for me. Yip so far behind, just found out that the Beatles have split up. The rail squaire should be sold with the rail as manditory
Hi Peter, I was in Taunton today and popped into to Bench Dogs and bought a Rail SquAre, option 3. I did take advantage of the 5% discount by mentioning the 10.minute workshop. Thanks for this. Brian
Thanks Peter, I may well invest in the BD Rail Square in the future, I noticed Ralph is bringing out a repeat stop accessory for it, which kind of adds parallel guide functionality.
Yes, indeed; ironically I’ve delayed doing this vid hoping to include the repeat stop, and as soon as it’s shot & scheduled he starts on the repeat stop! 😂
I know you said you probably only need one of the two, but I bought both. I can definitely see the value in parallel guides when cutting long narrow pieces, then using the square to cut them to finished length. I've still got the tablesaw and I've still yet to use it.
Great video! You missed one option. Combine them. I have the TSO parallel guides and rail squares. You can combine them and then you have the best of both worlds! I then do my cuts like you describe so I have two straight and square sides to work from. I am hoping to creat a large mft like table soon so I am looking forward to your videos on you creating you own!
Thanks Peter, you make it very clear, if I could suggest a possible improvement to your drawn example that would certainly be quicker and easier and perhaps more accurate, rip a fresh edge as you said (always good practice) but forget about squaring the end of the sheet, (most good consumer squares are "close" to actual square over their 300/400mm length but when you extend that to 1200 with a straight edge the error is magnified), then without flipping the sheet use the rail square to cut the right hand side of the first panel slightly oversize, then flip that small piece and make the remainder of the cuts with the parallel guides, just a thought. Peter.
Thanks Peter. The point of using a square was in the parallel guides workflow, so assuming you don't have a rail square. And as I say at the end of the vid, the PGs are great, but you must have a method in place to get a square cut, wether that's a rail square, an accurate layout square of a home-made reference square. 👍
I have both, got the parallel guides 1st, useful, until you get the RailSquare! I have the MkII not had the guides out since IMHO railsquare 1st then if you REALLY need the guides they are a good investment
Peter, I have to say that your workshop updates are coming out beautifully in the videos. The dark bench worktop was a very good choice. The whole is very esthetically pleasing and I may borrow your ideas for my she-shed.
I've had the TSO square for awhile but am considering selling it and getting the BD square. I bought the Woodpecker knock off (WP doesn't patent their designs apparently) parallel guides from a Chinese supplier and they are excellent quality and come in a Systainer sized box with a fitted foam interior.
Great job as always. I have the Seneca Woodworking parallel guides with the narrow cut stops. They work fantastic. Even though I've calibrated the tapes in the Incra T-Track Plus rails, I still use an adjustable story stick I made, to set up the width of cut stops to be truly parallel. I also have the TSO Rail Square. I added a bit of very thin plywood to the top to keep it from flopping about, and I made several of Dave Stanton's mods for cutting dados to the TSO Rail Square as well. That covers almost every cut I need to make when I'm away from my MFT/3. I think your point about using either of these tools is great for their intended purpose. I always clamp both both ends starting a long cut. I spent some very good money for that piece of sheet good, and I don't want to waist it by having a wanky cut. I'm into precision, as in finish carpentry, not into rough carpentry as in farming. Both have their places. Let me add a bit to it. These tools are for helping you with the type of precision needed for doing cabinetry and as such, they need to be used correctly. A parallel guide will only give you a parallelogram to start with, You need to make the squaring cross cut to bring the piece into the type of squareness you need for that job. It's not one or the other, it's both, if you don't have your calibrated MFT/3 about to do the cross cut. That's when the cross cut rail square comes into play. The taller and wider the sides are, means any errors in squareness and dimension, can make for a rather wobbly cabinet if you are off a bit. Several Boy Scout Eagle projects have had to be squared up before the final paint/staining assembly of those standalone cabinets were completed. There are things you can hide with an addon base, and some molding at the top, but a wobbly cabinet with wobbly shelf's, and doors that won't close correctly will be noticed.
Hello Peter! Thanks for another informative video. I recently purchased the Makita Track Saw system. My question: I'm looking into the TSO parallel guide system. They offer a 20" inch rail, a 30" rail, and a combo set of 30"/50" rail ($100 more than the 30" set). In my spare time, I enjoy building small furniture for family and friends (book cases, shelves, tables, etc. in my side-of-the-garage shop. In your opinion, which rail size would you recommend? Thanks again! PS: I don't want to spend the extra cash on the 30/50 combo kit LOL
Consternation. But you're correct. if you reference the Parallel side it's not necessarily a square (by definition you need to reference the square side to get square.
It's interesting seeing Andy (Woodgraphter) using railsquare and a single parallel guide :) Thank you Peter, I have been waiting for this video (even made the purchase before this video :D)
Yes, a ‘repeat stop’ has been teased for a while - I made my own some time ago - and it looks like there may be an official Benchdogs version for the rail square out soon. 👍👍
Thanks Peter. I have the BD Railsquare Mk2 and have been waiting to buy the Parallel Guides until they have the updated 'narrow cut' solution you have previously referred to. Any news on likely availability timing for that at all?
Very nice video, love the information. I'm going to figure out that track Peter has across his bench and make one for myself here in Texas. Love that thing and the cuts he is able to make with it!!!
Thanks Johann! Great question tbh! The Festool clamps - screw or ratchet - are pretty universal. But so are the Axminster trade ratchet clamps, and the cheap ones off banggood. The only ones I’ve had issues with tbh are the Makita, which are a little more ‘chunky’ than usual - but that was in an oddball t-track, not regular or on a guide rail. So I’d say you’re OK with pretty much any of them. 👍👍
Hi Peter, here we go again...... You keep costing me money mate. Now where did I put my Axminster tool catalogue lol 😆 great in-depth video mate thank you 👍👍👍👍
I'm just waiting for Ralph to make the attachment for the square for the repetitive cuts similar to what bisch Basch Bosch did with his. Originally was going to get the Bosch/maffel parallel guide but rather just have it all to go with the square.
Very useful video, Peter. Thanks! I bought the BD rail square using your affiliate link two months ago for a DIY cabinet project. Just to clarify, when you mention to do a 400mm rip along the reference edge, are you using the rail square at the squared end? I find it hard to get such cuts parallel to the reference edge even when using the rail square..
Great video Peter. Love the concept behind the cam system lock, as you say it makes it bang on square. Would be good to have such a system on the parallel guides - whilst I've found them to be accurate if set up properly, for me there is too much play in the slot and you have to make sure that you have them both hard up against the same edge as you did when calibrating them, would be good to remove this margin for error.
Hi Peter, I seem to remember that Festool actually had a rail-square a time ago - maybe 20 years ago? But it was one which you could set to other angles as well - so the accuracy might not have been that great. I think it as not selling well enough - maybe as well because it was not accurate enough?
You explaining this process on paper is HUGELY helpful. Thank you. Would you consider doing this for preparing lumber as well with a track saw for those of us without a table saw, please?
Fully agree on this. I would also like to see a video on it. Sill not fully getting the grasp of using new my track saw and rail square to prepare lumber
Found this video late but see the need for a rail square. Then I said, parallel cuts would be sweet too. New rabbit hole. Checked out the BD website and saw the best of both worlds. A rail square with repeatable cut package. Is that the legitimate best of both worlds for what I need or want in a combo package? Please advise
Rail square. With repeat atonement available when I made this video, but yes, absolutelythe best of both worlds. Don’t forget the 5% discount with offer code 10MINUTEWORKSHOP👍👍
Ironically nowadays you only have to purchase a couple of sheets of mdf to have spent enough loot to buy yourself a rail square! I bought the TSO square, and my results with it are a mixed bag. Sometimes it works well, other times it doesn't....I suspect a lot of it is in using the right technique particularly if your cut is over 600mm long and it does tend to tip up as you cut.
After using my track saw more regularly now I’m looking to do away with my table saw so this square would be perfect but Iv got the erbauer , do you know if the square fits that at all Peter ? Thanks Scott
Hi Peter have you had a chance to see how accurate the new festool adjustable rail square is yet? Just wondering as doesn’t seem to be many uk reviews yet.
Peter, may I ask how you are supporting the wood at 2.11? Having only a very narrow bench myself, I really struggle to make the initial cut due to the width of the board and support. You made it look easy! Thanks for your support. Great videos!
I have a lift-up section of bench specifically for this; if you watched the recent new bench tops video, I showed it there. The plywood is just resting on offcuts of 6mm MDF to raise it off the bench evenly, and I have the near corner clamped just to make double-sure it doesn’t shift when I’m making the cut. 👍
There a good few situations where perfectly square corners and perfectly parallel edges are important. But my kitchen walls are far from straight, and the floor is far from flat. I'm sure there are more situations where good enough is good enough. If the front of all your cabinets are perfectly in plane with each other, all at the same height so the worktop is level, but the back panel of one cabinet isn't parallel to the front, is anyone likely to notice?
Actually Festool just brought out their multi-angle rail square. But they'll still want you to buy a table with it, probably the table they have for cutting down sheet goods.
Interesting that your work flow changes and that you seem to trust the parallel guides o reference off. Technically the two systems should be identical in accuracy.
Must be nice to always get 'oversized' sheet goods, here in Oz just about all sheet goods are 2400 x 1200 not 2440 x 1220, except for a few imports intended for the US market. So if you make a few cross cuts (say into 4 pieces) you will be 6mm+ undersized on the final cut - every cut you loose 2 >3mm off the 'waste' side. A right PITA when you need several pieces the same, sometimes you can fiddle the design to use the undersized piece as, say, a divider with the backing board running across the back in one piece, otherwise you end up having to design everything slightly undersized or have a pile of 'wa$te' bits left over.
Your videos have inspired me to purchase a track saw and this rail square, but unfortunately, I am completely unable to get a square cut. I have tried everything (including using a combo square to see if the rail square was the problem), but every single time it comes out ever so slightly out of square, maybe 91 degrees. You make it look so easy, what is the secret? Feeling like I just wasted several hundred dollars here :(
Sorry to hear that; which rail square did you buy, and which saw are you using it with? Every square I’ve used - apart from a very old DeWalt model, now sold under the Triton brand - was dead square out of the box. Depending on the manufacturer of the square, they may have some adjustment available, but the higher-end squares like Benchdogs, TSO, FC Tools etc… are just manufactured square, to fine tolerances. If you have one of those and it’s not square then I’d return it, as it’s not fit for purpose. There’s no trick to it though; with the rail attached to the square and the square butted against a known straight edge of a board, you can check the for square using a known square against the board edge and the guiderail splinterguard. HTH P
I'm using the Bench Dogs MK2 and a Makita saw. I've checked that it is square, but once I actually make the cut, it never seems to end up square. Not sure if I'm pushing it wrong or there's blade deflection or something else going on that's making the cut not perfectly straight so it seems out of square? It is quite frustrating.
on the parallel guides you can still easily be out of square since you set up each on their own and reliant on you "eyeballing" it basically that whats has put me off. I use a square and also flip it like you, but for some reason most of the time its still slightly out of square (1/10mm to 1/4 mm ) ..drives me potty . I have a feeling my festool track is slightly out. I know blame it on your tools is just an excuse but this error margin does repeat itself. I have tried clamping etc. The track is under one year old but I cannot see them changing it :( because its a track and not for example the Plunge saw 55.
TSO makes excellent parallel guides. And when paired with the Festool tracks and the TSO quick adapters for the Festool tracks they are the bee's knees for breaking down sheet goods.
@@10MinuteWorkshop 🤔Pity, not nearly pro enough to justify an expensive track saw. Having said that may upgrade to a brand like evolution. Any idea if their tracks are compatible with the parkside saw or would I have to change the saw too? Thanks for your videos, they keep me trying to invent projects I don't really need but have fun doing!
@@10MinuteWorkshop: so many wood workers on your side of the pond seen to use common sense. That’s why I watch. BTW, my wife is from Norwich, she like getting to hear her ‘native’ dialect!
It’s not really either/or for me. I find the rail square generally the more useful because I rarely do lots of repetitive cuts, but I (almost) always want them to be square. For the occasions when I’m making a few cabinets I have a set of diy parallel guides. These don’t have scales, so I set them with my 1m long steel rule with a rule stop set to the dimension I want. It takes marginally longer to set up and does need another tool (the steel rule) but as I say, I’m not doing it every day (or even every month).
Thanks. Still on thebasic air quality monitor from Amazon. You may be able to get better ones now, but I’ve had this type for a few years and it’s done everything I need. 👍👍 amzn.to/3l3Z7HM
Wanting to make a purely mobile wood shop, that may have months between uses. I’m going to want both. Paulk Bench, Festool track saw, Domino, router and vacuum as the primary setup.
No! 😂 It's one I pulled out of a customers house probably 15 years ago, and always meant to do something with it. I thought I'd thrown it away tbh, but it surfaced during the clear-out, so now I'm trying to decide if it's worth keeping it until spring so I can make it into an outdoor plant pot washing thing. But for the moment, it's in the way. Again. 🤷♂️😂
@@10MinuteWorkshop I have hence the answer. Interestingly I have the Bosch version of the rails therefore I am not sure about parallel guides anyway. My concerns about Festool rails may be addressed in the up and coming MKII version
If I live in a parallel universe can I use a rail square? I'm so disappointed; I thought this was a guide to living in a parallel universe. Seriously, even though I've used parallel guides and the TSO rail square for about a year Peter always adds new, better, methods.
I’ve just been looking at getting a Festool track square and after seeing this video i thought that i may have found a cheaper alternative, wow was i surprised that even after entering the Benchdogs birthday discount code they were slightly more expensive than Festool genuine square
I had to re-watch your cutting diagrams to be sure. Your order/direction of cuts only works with MDF or Melamine or such, but it won’t work with plywood, the face grain changes direction.
If you have problems making a clean cross-grain cut in plywood you need a better blade! If grain direction is important to the finished piece then flip it to square off the end, and flip it back to make the cross cuts. 👍👍
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My advice: Get a way to make square cuts efficiently first, then look at getting parallel guides.
The reason I think the above is the correct advice is threefold. First, making square cuts is a far more common requirement than parallel cuts. Secondly, using parallel guides to copy a square corner introduces a small error in the same direction each time the previous cut edge is used as the new datum. This can be cancelled out by swapping the parallel guides for each cut, but is a ballache to do! Finally, if you have a lot of parallel cuts to make, it's easy enough to cut a couple of pieces of scrap to the correct width to act as a jig. It's a lot more difficult to improvise something to get repeatable square cuts!
Benchdogs rail squares and parallel guides have changed my work massively since seeing them on here 👍
I had been scratching my head about how to have the left side of the board squared until I saw you flipping it!!!! :) :) Very Smart!!!
Thank you Peter. I have been struggling with this for the past few days. I found plenty of reviews but this is the first side by side rail squares vs parallel guides.
Glad it helped. 👍
I have both the guides and square and an mft setup with a 120 benchdogs fence, you can use 1 parralel guide together with the square for repeated square cuts for when i need to do wider repaeted cuts that wont fit my crosscut fence setup.
Love the products from them! Thanks for discovering them for us 🤗🤗
I am not a carpenter, but I do not know the value of another piece of parallelism guide. One piece with the squaring tool is sufficient to repeat the pieces in a perpendicular and equal manner on both sides.
Right?
For any beginners on a tight budget (i.e. me!) Triton do a parallel guide for around £20 that fits the Makita rail.
Thanks for the video Peter. I recently purchased a Festool Rail Square but I have to say I use your DIY parallel guides. They have worked so well I don't feel the need to buy any others. Thankyou once again.
I recently discovered the TSO system and it is great as you can use one parallel track plus a rail square simultaneously. The track acts as the measurement tool! Pricey yes, but this is my preferred cutting system replacing an MFT centric system. So if you havent bought an MFT yet, the pricing is more competitive vs MFT. And if you truly need the parallel function, just drop in the second track.
Whew! Looks like they have a DeWalt option. Just ordered and thanks for the 5% discount. I don't have a truck just a Jeep. So I often find myself taking some foam boards, cordless tracksaw and cutting up the plywood in the parking lot. Getting more square cuts in the parking lot cuts down on my workload so it's much appreciated.
Who has the Dewalt option? I've been looking everywhere
@@williamdyer4431 Benchdog UK has a square rail for DeWalt. But not parallel guides. DeWalt tracksaw works on Festool track. So that's another route if you need the parallel guides.
@@hansangb Thnx! I had no idea Dewalt saw works with Festool track. That's great!
super nice advice, I think parallel guides are good if you need to make odd size parallel cuts but for cabinetry you can just cut a few pieces of wood, clamp them and use this as your guide
Thanks for another well thought out presentation and your thoughts on workflow. My usual kitchen cabinet flow is to rip my plywood lengthwise with the grain into 2’ (lowers) and/or 1’ (uppers) strips (really 23-1/4” or 11-1/4” to accommodate face frames), then cross-cutting those strips into the various lengths needed for the desired height of the respective uppers or lowers. The ripping operation only has three to five cuts per sheet, so would make use of a long rail on tape measured marks. However the cross-cutting operation has come to depend on the guide-rail square. For a less than 2-foot cross-cut, the TSO square on a 39” (okay, really a 1 meter) rail is quick and accurate and not cumbersome. Money well spent.
I wanted to try parallel guides for the ripping operation, but didn’t want to risk the $500 or so when tape measured marks had proven accurate enough. So I bought some short sections of t-track and had one of my mechanical engineer buddies 3-D print the other bits in plastic. The 3-D printed parts have proven accurate enough, and the repeated cuts have been quick and accurate, but the combination of a long guide rail with the parallel guides at each end has proven a bit unwieldy in confined spaces. To go from the reference edge cut to the other cuts I have to flip the rail around (a hassle by itself) but then attach the parallel guides, and being right handed with a right handed plunge saw, step around the protruding t-track trying not to catch the cord and dust hose while I pass. Though I am thinking of some mods as I work through the niggles, I am glad I only have about $100 invested. Have others had similar experiences with the commercial units?
Thanks Todd! I made my own PGs as well, but I only use them on shorter cuts, as mentioned in the vid. And they’re shorter rails too - good enough for a ~620mm (24”+) rip. Be interested to hear others experience too! 👍👍
Here is a trick to achieve parallel sides with only a rail square. Say you have a sheet of plywood out of which you want to cut a rectangle of a certain length and width and you want the corners to be square and the sides to be parallel. You have an accurate rail square with an angle error of only 0.01 degrees. Let us focus on the squareness and parallelness and ignore the dimensions. You begin by cutting the lower edge, edge 1. You put the rail square against edge 1 and cut the right edge, edge 2. The angle is only 89.99 degrees due to the rail square error. If you continue in the same way and cut edge 3 it will not be parallel to edge 1 due to the angle error. However, if you flip over the sheet so that edge 1 is still at the bottom but edge 2 is to the left and edge 4 is to the right, place the rail square against edge 2 and cut edge 3 you will be cutting on the opposite side of the rail square and the angle errors will cancel. As a result, edge 3 and edge 1 will be parallel. In order to cut edge 4 so it is parallel to edge 2, flip the sheet over to its original position, place the rail square against edge 3 and cut edge 4. Now edge 4 will be parallel to edge 2 since the angle errors are the same.
The edges will be parallel alright; but that wont be a “rectangle” you just cut out.
As mico sort of said it will be a parallelogram and therefore not have 90deg corners, although the lengths turn out the same.
Well, sure, but how much will it matter? We're building furniture, not medical equipment.
thanks for this new vid and advises, being french it's always a great pleasure to train my English with your vid's 😃 Out of this i use the BenchdogUK square model 1
You are the most eloquent carpenter I've ever seen. At first I thought you were a university professor!
Thank you! 😆🙌👍👍
Great comparison, and it would probably be awesome to have both on hand.😉👌🏽
Cheers, Peter, the more you know.👍🏽
Cheers Bill! 👍
The squares and parallel guides really fit two different uses, although they kind of overlap a little and do complement each other... squaring up the cut vs. easily setting up the width of a cut. I have the TSO system myself and they integrate together when desired to do both functions. TSO makes a great modular system IMHO.
Love them for the relative ease of use and accuracy... but they are expensive, like you said the guides can be. I break down sheet goods in my garage with the track saw before I can get them down into my basement shop and the table saw. Many times the track saw cuts are plenty good enough and I don't have to re-cut (adjust) the pieces further before use. I actually keep a cheap Chinese knock-off small square on my short 39 inch guide for cuts I can't do on my miter saw. Plenty accurate over the 8 to ~24 inch cuts I use it for.
Just got my benchdog rail square and did the 5 cut method on a peice of ply. Ive been a joiner for 40 years way back before the battery drill or any battery tool what a F__ki_G game changer for me. Yip so far behind, just found out that the Beatles have split up. The rail squaire should be sold with the rail as manditory
That’s fantastic to hear! And I agree - every tracksaw user should have one! 🙌👍👍
Watched this on my wife's account the other day, great video Pete, benchdogs kit is so precise 👍
Cheers Peter, I think I will invest a benchdog rail square once my new workshop is up and running.
Hi Peter, I was in Taunton today and popped into to Bench Dogs and bought a Rail SquAre, option 3. I did take advantage of the 5% discount by mentioning the 10.minute workshop. Thanks for this.
Brian
Thanks Brian! I hope to make the trip to Benchdogs for a tour before too long! 👍👍
Beautiful hardware with great design❣ Not something I find myself say to often.
Thanks Peter, I may well invest in the BD Rail Square in the future, I noticed Ralph is bringing out a repeat stop accessory for it, which kind of adds parallel guide functionality.
Yes, indeed; ironically I’ve delayed doing this vid hoping to include the repeat stop, and as soon as it’s shot & scheduled he starts on the repeat stop! 😂
I know you said you probably only need one of the two, but I bought both. I can definitely see the value in parallel guides when cutting long narrow pieces, then using the square to cut them to finished length.
I've still got the tablesaw and I've still yet to use it.
Great video! You missed one option. Combine them. I have the TSO parallel guides and rail squares. You can combine them and then you have the best of both worlds! I then do my cuts like you describe so I have two straight and square sides to work from.
I am hoping to creat a large mft like table soon so I am looking forward to your videos on you creating you own!
Not missed, just saving it for another video! 😂👍
Festool is fighting back and now have the SYS3 M 137 FS/2 set and it’s very cool indeed. Hats off to festool.
Thanks Peter, you make it very clear, if I could suggest a possible improvement to your drawn example that would certainly be quicker and easier and perhaps more accurate, rip a fresh edge as you said (always good practice) but forget about squaring the end of the sheet, (most good consumer squares are "close" to actual square over their 300/400mm length but when you extend that to 1200 with a straight edge the error is magnified), then without flipping the sheet use the rail square to cut the right hand side of the first panel slightly oversize, then flip that small piece and make the remainder of the cuts with the parallel guides, just a thought.
Peter.
Thanks Peter. The point of using a square was in the parallel guides workflow, so assuming you don't have a rail square. And as I say at the end of the vid, the PGs are great, but you must have a method in place to get a square cut, wether that's a rail square, an accurate layout square of a home-made reference square. 👍
Brilliant and very informative as always, thanks Peter, I feel an expensive weekend coming!! Stay well and keep em coming
Thanks Paul! 👍
I have both, got the parallel guides 1st, useful, until you get the RailSquare! I have the MkII not had the guides out since IMHO railsquare 1st then if you REALLY need the guides they are a good investment
Awesome video! I was hesitant to buy Festool due to the price. Benchdogs are now ordered! Now we are talkin!
Peter, I have to say that your workshop updates are coming out beautifully in the videos. The dark bench worktop was a very good choice. The whole is very esthetically pleasing and I may borrow your ideas for my she-shed.
Thanks! 🙌👍
I've had the TSO square for awhile but am considering selling it and getting the BD square. I bought the Woodpecker knock off (WP doesn't patent their designs apparently) parallel guides from a Chinese supplier and they are excellent quality and come in a Systainer sized box with a fitted foam interior.
Great job as always. I have the Seneca Woodworking parallel guides with the narrow cut stops. They work fantastic. Even though I've calibrated the tapes in the Incra T-Track Plus rails, I still use an adjustable story stick I made, to set up the width of cut stops to be truly parallel. I also have the TSO Rail Square. I added a bit of very thin plywood to the top to keep it from flopping about, and I made several of Dave Stanton's mods for cutting dados to the TSO Rail Square as well. That covers almost every cut I need to make when I'm away from my MFT/3. I think your point about using either of these tools is great for their intended purpose. I always clamp both both ends starting a long cut. I spent some very good money for that piece of sheet good, and I don't want to waist it by having a wanky cut. I'm into precision, as in finish carpentry, not into rough carpentry as in farming. Both have their places.
Let me add a bit to it. These tools are for helping you with the type of precision needed for doing cabinetry and as such, they need to be used correctly. A parallel guide will only give you a parallelogram to start with, You need to make the squaring cross cut to bring the piece into the type of squareness you need for that job. It's not one or the other, it's both, if you don't have your calibrated MFT/3 about to do the cross cut. That's when the cross cut rail square comes into play. The taller and wider the sides are, means any errors in squareness and dimension, can make for a rather wobbly cabinet if you are off a bit. Several Boy Scout Eagle projects have had to be squared up before the final paint/staining assembly of those standalone cabinets were completed. There are things you can hide with an addon base, and some molding at the top, but a wobbly cabinet with wobbly shelf's, and doors that won't close correctly will be noticed.
Thanks Warren, you make some great points! 👍
In my opinion an MFT table + the rail square + the fence system is the most complete setup!
👌👍
Hey Peter, thanks for the explanation! Festool actually has a rail square, it’s the FS-WA/90
Great to here the jingle.
Hello Peter! Thanks for another informative video.
I recently purchased the Makita Track Saw system.
My question: I'm looking into the TSO parallel guide system. They offer a 20" inch rail, a 30" rail, and a combo set of 30"/50" rail ($100 more than the 30" set). In my spare time, I enjoy building small furniture for family and friends (book cases, shelves, tables, etc. in my side-of-the-garage shop. In your opinion, which rail size would you recommend?
Thanks again! PS: I don't want to spend the extra cash on the 30/50 combo kit LOL
The refurbed end of your workshop is looking good with far fewer things that draw attention away from the main subject.👍
Thank you! It's coming along! 👍
Consternation. But you're correct. if you reference the Parallel side it's not necessarily a square (by definition you need to reference the square side to get square.
It's interesting seeing Andy (Woodgraphter) using railsquare and a single parallel guide :) Thank you Peter, I have been waiting for this video (even made the purchase before this video :D)
Yes, a ‘repeat stop’ has been teased for a while - I made my own some time ago - and it looks like there may be an official Benchdogs version for the rail square out soon. 👍👍
Thanks Peter. I have the BD Railsquare Mk2 and have been waiting to buy the Parallel Guides until they have the updated 'narrow cut' solution you have previously referred to. Any news on likely availability timing for that at all?
Nice set up! And no, nothing as yet. 🤷♂️👍
Very nice video, love the information. I'm going to figure out that track Peter has across his bench and make one for myself here in Texas. Love that thing and the cuts he is able to make with it!!!
Thanks Jim! I’ll be making a DIY version before too king so watch out for that one! 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Can hardly wait!!! I will be looking forward to seeing that and hoping I can find the bits and pieces needed to make it.
Thank you for the helpful info! Which rail clamps fit most available rails? Or the most common ones? Thank you!
Thanks Johann! Great question tbh! The Festool clamps - screw or ratchet - are pretty universal. But so are the Axminster trade ratchet clamps, and the cheap ones off banggood. The only ones I’ve had issues with tbh are the Makita, which are a little more ‘chunky’ than usual - but that was in an oddball t-track, not regular or on a guide rail. So I’d say you’re OK with pretty much any of them. 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop thanks. Much appreciated!
Hi Peter,
here we go again...... You keep costing me money mate. Now where did I put my Axminster tool catalogue lol 😆 great in-depth video mate thank you 👍👍👍👍
Sorry about that Carl! 😬 At least I get you a discount! 😂😂👍
Peter when are you going to do vid about the carpenter sqaure and precision square?
Only had the carpenters square for a few days, so I need to have a proper play with it first! 👍👍
I'm just waiting for Ralph to make the attachment for the square for the repetitive cuts similar to what bisch Basch Bosch did with his.
Originally was going to get the Bosch/maffel parallel guide but rather just have it all to go with the square.
It’s been coming for a while. 👍👍
Very useful video, Peter. Thanks! I bought the BD rail square using your affiliate link two months ago for a DIY cabinet project.
Just to clarify, when you mention to do a 400mm rip along the reference edge, are you using the rail square at the squared end? I find it hard to get such cuts parallel to the reference edge even when using the rail square..
Yes, but I’d also be checking the distance at the far end with a measure or a sliding square, just to be sure. And clamping the far end too. 👍👍
Great video Peter.
Love the concept behind the cam system lock, as you say it makes it bang on square. Would be good to have such a system on the parallel guides - whilst I've found them to be accurate if set up properly, for me there is too much play in the slot and you have to make sure that you have them both hard up against the same edge as you did when calibrating them, would be good to remove this margin for error.
They ought to be using a self aligning system like the new Festool rail joining inserts. That would eliminate that whole issue.
Hi Peter, I seem to remember that Festool actually had a rail-square a time ago - maybe 20 years ago? But it was one which you could set to other angles as well - so the accuracy might not have been that great. I think it as not selling well enough - maybe as well because it was not accurate enough?
You explaining this process on paper is HUGELY helpful. Thank you. Would you consider doing this for preparing lumber as well with a track saw for those of us without a table saw, please?
I’ll see what I can do! 👍
Thank you. There are not very useful RUclips videos on this and I think people would get great value out of it.
Fully agree on this. I would also like to see a video on it. Sill not fully getting the grasp of using new my track saw and rail square to prepare lumber
There is now rail square with a repeatable stop FS-WA-VL is the festool part so its a system that's 2 in one.
Found this video late but see the need for a rail square. Then I said, parallel cuts would be sweet too. New rabbit hole. Checked out the BD website and saw the best of both worlds. A rail square with repeatable cut package. Is that the legitimate best of both worlds for what I need or want in a combo package? Please advise
Rail square. With repeat atonement available when I made this video, but yes, absolutelythe best of both worlds. Don’t forget the 5% discount with offer code 10MINUTEWORKSHOP👍👍
i love the benchdogs square! got one a few months ago.
👍👌
Ironically nowadays you only have to purchase a couple of sheets of mdf to have spent enough loot to buy yourself a rail square!
I bought the TSO square, and my results with it are a mixed bag. Sometimes it works well, other times it doesn't....I suspect a lot of it is in using the right technique particularly if your cut is over 600mm long and it does tend to tip up as you cut.
Very true David. 👍👍
EXCELLENT prevention. Thanks!
After using my track saw more regularly now I’m looking to do away with my table saw so this square would be perfect but Iv got the erbauer , do you know if the square fits that at all Peter ? Thanks
Scott
Erbauer use the Makita pattern rails, so they should be fine. 👍
Oh right did not know that, thanks again Peter
Hi Peter have you had a chance to see how accurate the new festool adjustable rail square is yet? Just wondering as doesn’t seem to be many uk reviews yet.
No, sorry - haven’t seen one in the flesh yet. 🤷♂️👍
I’m awaiting the Miroc-Millard (or Millard-Miroc) range of premium track accessories.
Don’t give me ideas! 😂👍
I wonder if that chap who threw his toys out the pram about the ytshorts is watching. lmao. great vid Peter.!
Excellent video clip. Rail square could be good on the site.
Thanks Pete!
D
Anybody know if the parallel guides fit the dewalt rails?🤔
Peter, may I ask how you are supporting the wood at 2.11? Having only a very narrow bench myself, I really struggle to make the initial cut due to the width of the board and support. You made it look easy! Thanks for your support. Great videos!
I have a lift-up section of bench specifically for this; if you watched the recent new bench tops video, I showed it there. The plywood is just resting on offcuts of 6mm MDF to raise it off the bench evenly, and I have the near corner clamped just to make double-sure it doesn’t shift when I’m making the cut. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thank you Peter. I will take another look!
A very excellent video. Thanks for sharing.
Glad you enjoyed it! 👍
I've seen where some systems combine a rail square with parallel guides. what are your thoughts on those?
Good idea, if you need it. 👍 Benchdogs Parallel Guides Mk2 and Rail Square Repeat Stop [video 509] - ruclips.net/video/ltuhT90ijz4/видео.html
Very good. Thank you from California.
Thank you! Best wishes from London! 👍
Brilliant explanation 👍
I like this guy, not one to say much.
That's clear!
A clamp at the far end, away from the rail square, is good insurance for almost any cut IMHO.
There a good few situations where perfectly square corners and perfectly parallel edges are important. But my kitchen walls are far from straight, and the floor is far from flat. I'm sure there are more situations where good enough is good enough.
If the front of all your cabinets are perfectly in plane with each other, all at the same height so the worktop is level, but the back panel of one cabinet isn't parallel to the front, is anyone likely to notice?
Thanks! totally out of my $$ range. I am still at the cobble together CHEAP mode.
If it works, it works! 👍👍
Great square it is then save up for some MDF. I draw rather than cut a sheet of MDF too with the prices some places want a t the moment
👍👍
Bisa di bawa kemana-mana nih gak ribet
Tepat! 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop mantap paman
"Festool wants you to buy into..." is the key sentence of this video 😀.
👍 😂
Actually Festool just brought out their multi-angle rail square. But they'll still want you to buy a table with it, probably the table they have for cutting down sheet goods.
BenchDog makes some nice stuff. Wonder if they fit the Kreg track guide.
We don’t get the Kreg track guides over here, so I don’t think so. You could always ask them though! 🤷♂️👍
Interesting that your work flow changes and that you seem to trust the parallel guides o reference off. Technically the two systems should be identical in accuracy.
"Square enough for me"
Confirmed your square enough 🎯
😂👍
Must be nice to always get 'oversized' sheet goods, here in Oz just about all sheet goods are 2400 x 1200 not 2440 x 1220, except for a few imports intended for the US market. So if you make a few cross cuts (say into 4 pieces) you will be 6mm+ undersized on the final cut - every cut you loose 2 >3mm off the 'waste' side. A right PITA when you need several pieces the same, sometimes you can fiddle the design to use the undersized piece as, say, a divider with the backing board running across the back in one piece, otherwise you end up having to design everything slightly undersized or have a pile of 'wa$te' bits left over.
Sure about that? Sure some is exactly 2400x1200. I've seen both here. All MDF and chipboard is oversize. Some plywoods are too
Your videos have inspired me to purchase a track saw and this rail square, but unfortunately, I am completely unable to get a square cut. I have tried everything (including using a combo square to see if the rail square was the problem), but every single time it comes out ever so slightly out of square, maybe 91 degrees. You make it look so easy, what is the secret? Feeling like I just wasted several hundred dollars here :(
Sorry to hear that; which rail square did you buy, and which saw are you using it with? Every square I’ve used - apart from a very old DeWalt model, now sold under the Triton brand - was dead square out of the box. Depending on the manufacturer of the square, they may have some adjustment available, but the higher-end squares like Benchdogs, TSO, FC Tools etc… are just manufactured square, to fine tolerances. If you have one of those and it’s not square then I’d return it, as it’s not fit for purpose. There’s no trick to it though; with the rail attached to the square and the square butted against a known straight edge of a board, you can check the for square using a known square against the board edge and the guiderail splinterguard. HTH P
I'm using the Bench Dogs MK2 and a Makita saw. I've checked that it is square, but once I actually make the cut, it never seems to end up square. Not sure if I'm pushing it wrong or there's blade deflection or something else going on that's making the cut not perfectly straight so it seems out of square? It is quite frustrating.
on the parallel guides you can still easily be out of square since you set up each on their own and reliant on you "eyeballing" it basically that whats has put me off. I use a square and also flip it like you, but for some reason most of the time its still slightly out of square (1/10mm to 1/4 mm ) ..drives me potty . I have a feeling my festool track is slightly out. I know blame it on your tools is just an excuse but this error margin does repeat itself. I have tried clamping etc. The track is under one year old but I cannot see them changing it :( because its a track and not for example the Plunge saw 55.
TSO makes excellent parallel guides. And when paired with the Festool tracks and the TSO quick adapters for the Festool tracks they are the bee's knees for breaking down sheet goods.
Is this compatible with Parkside rails any idea?
Nope. Parkside have gone their own way; they’re similar to the Festool/Makita pattern, but not similar enough. 🤷♂️
@@10MinuteWorkshop 🤔Pity, not nearly pro enough to justify an expensive track saw. Having said that may upgrade to a brand like evolution. Any idea if their tracks are compatible with the parkside saw or would I have to change the saw too?
Thanks for your videos, they keep me trying to invent projects I don't really need but have fun doing!
Always following….from Boerne, TX
Thank you! Best wishes from London!
@@10MinuteWorkshop: so many wood workers on your side of the pond seen to use common sense. That’s why I watch. BTW, my wife is from Norwich, she like getting to hear her ‘native’ dialect!
Thanks as always Peter! I need all the help I can get when it comes to getting things square! How many years should it take!?? 😂
A few! 😂😂
It’s not really either/or for me. I find the rail square generally the more useful because I rarely do lots of repetitive cuts, but I (almost) always want them to be square. For the occasions when I’m making a few cabinets I have a set of diy parallel guides. These don’t have scales, so I set them with my 1m long steel rule with a rule stop set to the dimension I want. It takes marginally longer to set up and does need another tool (the steel rule) but as I say, I’m not doing it every day (or even every month).
Hi, sorry for off topic, which air quality monitor do you use these days? Cant seem to find the old video with the model. Thanks!
Thanks. Still on thebasic air quality monitor from Amazon. You may be able to get better ones now, but I’ve had this type for a few years and it’s done everything I need. 👍👍 amzn.to/3l3Z7HM
Does anyone know of a more budget / low price rail square. Beginner on a budget here.
Thanks
I’ve done a video about a DIY version - link in description. 👍👍
I bought a cheap one on etsy which works well. RUclips doesn't let me post a link but it'll probably come up just searching rail square
@@robhansen91 perfect ! Thanks
super video peter.but were did you get that pen in the video
i need one
Cultpens.com. 👌And thank you! 🙌👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thanks peter
Wanting to make a purely mobile wood shop, that may have months between uses. I’m going to want both.
Paulk Bench, Festool track saw, Domino, router and vacuum as the primary setup.
I think a see a Belfast sink on the floor, towards the end of the video; are we to see plumbing from you next? 😀
No! 😂 It's one I pulled out of a customers house probably 15 years ago, and always meant to do something with it. I thought I'd thrown it away tbh, but it surfaced during the clear-out, so now I'm trying to decide if it's worth keeping it until spring so I can make it into an outdoor plant pot washing thing. But for the moment, it's in the way. Again. 🤷♂️😂
Rail square, now convince me otherwise Peter 😁
Go for it! It would be my choice initially, too. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop I have hence the answer. Interestingly I have the Bosch version of the rails therefore I am not sure about parallel guides anyway. My concerns about Festool rails may be addressed in the up and coming MKII version
I have both. I thought they both had a place
Question of the day!
What form does a Speed Square have…
If I live in a parallel universe can I use a rail square? I'm so disappointed; I thought this was a guide to living in a parallel universe. Seriously, even though I've used parallel guides and the TSO rail square for about a year Peter always adds new, better, methods.
😂 Hadn’t thought of that aspect! And thanks! 👍
Interesting
SR-71 blackbird overview 🤭
😂👍
I’ve just been looking at getting a Festool track square and after seeing this video i thought that i may have found a cheaper alternative, wow was i surprised that even after entering the Benchdogs birthday discount code they were slightly more expensive than Festool genuine square
Depends where you’re buying the Festool square from; also the ‘genuine’ Festool square is the TSO square in Festool colours. 👍
I had to re-watch your cutting diagrams to be sure. Your order/direction of cuts only works with MDF or Melamine or such, but it won’t work with plywood, the face grain changes direction.
If you have problems making a clean cross-grain cut in plywood you need a better blade! If grain direction is important to the finished piece then flip it to square off the end, and flip it back to make the cross cuts. 👍👍
This guys the MDF king, MDF is horrible stuff.
There's some new stuff on the market that is 100% waterproof. Tricoya.
MDF is just another tool in the drawer. There are applications where it is the perfect material. Others not so much.