Why did the Peugeot 309 almost never happen?
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- Опубликовано: 17 май 2024
- In 1984 PSA, the company that comprised Peugeot, Citroën and Talbot was in a bind. They’d just spent a couple of years designing a car that didn’t fit into their new line-up. Should they scrap it, launch it, or give it away to another car company? Just how did PSA get into the odd situation of developing a car they didn’t have a home for, and did it succeed, or did it flop?
Music: Instant Crush by Corbyn Kites from the RUclips audio library.
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Fun fact: the bonnet release of the first series 309 was a Simca 1000 door handle.
Always felt like 309 is underrated compared to 205, 405 and other cool Peugeots of the day
Poo sniffer
always delighted to learn about underrated things on yt!
@@RayEttler itchy poo snack
Peugeot made some nice cars back in the day.
@@jannevaatainen Yeah, I am big fan of 05 and 06 Peugeots. 07 generation was let down for me but things seem to be coming back with current gen cars such as 208 and 508
Excellent video! Just pulled up on my drive in my 1990 White Peugeot 309 1.6 GLX...Sitting in it's ultra comfortable drivers seat watching this video with my phone on the steering wheel. I got the notification while driving...Couldn't wait to watch it 😍 Parked in front of me is my White 1990 309 1.3 Look, to the left of me is my Red 1992 205 1.9 GTI. They are all Awesome cars! I wouldn't have a new computer on wheels if it was given to me. This video has made my day! Thank You!
Glad to see you still have all of them. I think when you search up "Peugeot 309" there is so little content your cold starts are like the first or second result.
@@GlamStacheessnostalgialounge Thanks! They are all still great! They just don't seem to age. They do their job without any complaints...So much fun to drive! Life is too busy at the moment...But I will make a video when the world calms down a bit :)
@@88GTi I might make one on my own car eventually...if I ever get her fixed that is. Finding a 1.4 driveshaft is surprisingly difficult.
@@GlamStacheessnostalgialounge If you are looking for 309 TU 1.4 complete driveshafts and you are in the UK, there are new left and right for £26 each on eBay with free shipping. I would post a link, but RUclips would probably block it.
1.4 TU's are stupidly fast! :)
Omg omg omg thank you so much for doing the 309 story!! An overlooked and under-rated car in my opinion! My 1992 diesel is still chugging along, barely run-in at 218,000 miles
I absolutely love your documentaries. The level of knowledge, the old ads, and above all, YOU, turn every video into the most comprehensible video about a certain car worldwide-ever. PLEASE continue with your videos. They are inspiring, nostalgic, and just something special for me and many, many others. Every time I come across one of your videos, I end up watching three more or revisiting old ones. :) Thank you for all your hard work.
PS: My 93 year old grandmother still has a more or less fully functional Peugeot 106 in her garage. That thing sounds like a tractor and occasionally the exhaust falls off. lol
PSA's styling was on point in the 80s
I think they've got it back again with their current cars ie 2008 etc. I know what ur saying tho
False
@@KarlHamilton ok, but it's just an opinion
@@david-iandawson I think you are right. 508/208/5008/3008/2008 do actually look very very good.
@@juststuff8742 haha. Karl Hamilton is stupid enough to think his opinion is legally binding like that of a court magistrate. If he wasn't stupid he would have may have considered posting "I think this is false" in my opinion. Still it brings entertainment to think he thinks coz he said this he's correct 😂😂😂
I worked for a Peugeot Dealer in the early 90s and caught the tail end of the 309 before the 306 took over.
As i remember they were very light and a bit tinny to be honest but they were galvanized and did not rust, we would regularly have the diesel models coming in for routine servicing with over 200,000 miles on the clock .
Another great Video thank you (:
Ps Have a great Christmas and New year!
Peugeot’s of this era generally didn’t rust ,never seen a rot box 205/309/405 even the 305 seemed pretty robust to tin worm....👍
@@mudskipper0075 I daily drive 1993 205 1.1 Winner edition (pretty rare) and its nearly rustless except few bubbles in boot.
106, 205, 309 they were all run mechanicly into the ground.
They kept on going and ended at the scrapheap because they were wrecked or worn out till the last bolt but no due to rust.
That’s right, mine was petrol and expired at 144,000 but the non turbo diesels went on forever.
No rust on mine after 13 year's service. Very well galvanised and undersealed. Similar to my 106.
india got the 309 in 1996, first with the tu3 and then the tud5. it wouldve been quite successful but a ton of management issues led them to pull the plug in ‘98. lots of people even lost their booking money. ive got one and almost nobody knows what it is. truly an underappreciated car
I lost the booking amount. Got a Honda later.
A video on Iranian cars would be cool! They have some interesting history
Yes
I was surprised in 1973 to see the taxis in Tehran were Hillman Hunters badged as Paykan.
@@CLUBIKLE i had no idea until watching this video! That’s super interesting
Iranian here, I was born in 80s, in my childhood days a middle class family had 2 choice when buying a car, Paykan(hillman hunter) and renault 5. We had the Renault and I loved that nice car. I remember that city streets were crowded by Paykans until late 90s.
@@Espakho What replaced them in the '90s?
We had a 309 diesel (XUD of course)... Yes the interior was cheap and rattily, and was poverty spec without power steering, but it was by far the most reliable car we ever owned, and never left us at the side of the road. The corrosion resistance was also well ahead of it's time, and still ahead of fords to this day. Not a spot of rust anywhere. This was the golden age of diesels, and for PSA.
You know it's going to be a good day when there is a new Big Car story! :)
Edit: Thanks for the likes! :)
Aaaah, best company car I ever had - my metallic grey 309 GTI was nippier and more flighty than my colleague's Golf GTI of the same vintage (but did feel much more tinny!). The boss took it home one day for a service at his local garage, clearly scared himself on the drive and named it The Flying Rollerskate. It was so good, I bought myself another one after I left the job.
I loved my step dad's 309, and I've always wanted a 309 GTI
Finally, a proper explanation as to how the 309 was a Peugeot but also was a Talbot and also perhaps a Simca. When the car came out in 1985, I always thought the rear lights looked like tri-colour toothpaste
PSA Groupe were going to make this car a Talbot Arizona, but canned the idea, because they already killed the marque before it was even thought of.
The original rear lights were hideous, although they didn't look so bad on the 505.
Considering the close relation to the megahit 205, it is a bit weird that PSA did not try to sell the 309 as another version of the 205...
The runner in that Simca advert had balls of stainless steel on that shoot...
I used to own one for a couple of years in the late 80,s , with the 1.9 Diesel engine ,was one the best cars i ever had .
Whoever designed the taillights on the 309 deserves recognition, they really stood out from all other cars. Personally i think they look cool and weird at the same time.
Aye, both pre and post facelift too!
Here I am and I cant tell the difference between this and any other car from its era lol
@@baronvonjo1929 Reminds me of the 1985 Honda Integra, Back then it was unusual for taillights and body to look as if they had been designed together rather than just slapped on as an afterthought.
Superb video! :D
I always liked the look of the 309, the front light clusters seemed to give the car a happy appearance, as well as the fact it was a nicely proportioned machine. :)
Thanks Ruairidh. BTW, how the heck do you say your name (or is it Rory)?
Great video! I know Dutch leading car magazine Autovisie was always in love with the 309 GTI. And the doors-story is totally new. Can't unsee it anymore. How did I miss that?
Ah, memories of my old D-reg 309GL. Cracking car until its old 1.3 blew the timing belt on the M1 going past Milton Keynes Parkway one Boxing Day many years ago. Engine destroyed. Huge shame, was really proud of that car. Very comfortable, looked great, and surprisingly quick even for the shopping trolley versions.
My 309 timing belt went on me as well on the M25. There was a crack sound, and the engine just died. I got a lot of strokey-chins from the mechanics but got it fixed (at great cost to me at that time) Despite this incident, I owned two 309s, and I always thought they were great cars.
The 1.3 didn't have a timing belt. It was a Simca derived engine from the 60s first used in the Simca 1000. Used a timing chain. That, and the tappets always going out of adjustment was why the engine was so rattley. Only the XU 1.6 & 1.9 had a belt.
@@nigelglover3220 Hi, perhaps incorrect terminology from the mechanic. Whatever it was, it was a big bang, complete loss of timing on the engine, likely valve/piston collision. Mechanic tried a rock test with it in gear and actually believed it had snapped the *crankshaft*. In that respect, failure my have been big end somewhere. Either way, major engine failure, couldn't afford to replace engine, got it towed home, and eventually was either towed away or stolen. Bah - sweet car.
@@chrisbardell Yea - Mine was a 1.6. I think it was the cambelt that went on mine but I used your terminology. But as you said, whatever went, it knocked out the timing with valves with the pistons and the whole engine was f*****d.
Nice, except the fact 1.3 engine used timing chain, not belt. Your memories are hazy. You probably meant 1.4 PSA engine.
Very interesting as always. My dad bought a Mk.1 version, poverty spec five door model with the 1.3 engine. The ride was superb in the old French way, leaned on corners but very compliant and comfortable. Whatever happened to that? It was a really good car, I don't recall any build or quality issues and the only thing that let it down was the rather wheezy underpowered engine.
I agree about the ride, my Talbot was the same.
My mom had a hot red 205 GT, later followed by a 306 XT when I was a child ... always loved them. The local gas station owner had a dark red 309 though and even as a kid I sensed it was not really a proper match for the lineup - oh memory lane! Thank you so much for your videos!
I have fond memories of my 1988 309 GTi which I owned in 1993 ish. Fast, brash, squeaky and fast fast. It was fast and no mistake. Handled like a dream and pre-ABS and traction control. Interior trim pieces would sometimes go on strike but.... oh, and the throttle stuck once, which was scary, but fixable.
i am from iran hunter was such affordable and loveable vehicle we called her PAYKAN which means arrow in english and it had alots of types but the best one was javanan
My Father had 2 English versions Hillman Hunter & Minx , I thought it was a lovely comfy car as a boy in the 80s ,even though was an old car by then , I'd Drive one now if there were any left!
@@fletch8d616 in tehran its price skyrocketed if you want a fully restored hunter deluxe which has manufactured in 70s or late 60s
Indeed.... These were everywhere on Iran.
Paykan is one of the Farsi words for Arrow. The Hunter/Sceptre/Minx/Vogue ranges in question were known collectively as the Rootes Arrow, so the Paykan name makes perfect sense.
I had one of these, the diesel engine was amazing, never had one problem with it.
I owned a 309 gr 1.6 in red and rate it as one of the best cars i have ever owned. Never let me down in 50,000 miles with loads of adventures along the way. Currently driving a Porsche and owned many cool cars too but always fond memories of the 309 going flat out down my favourite back roads to lugging fridge freezers with the seats folded down.
I thought the 309 was a pretty little car. I hired one once in November 1991 in Helensborough Scotland where my brother & I saw the Aurora borealis while at Loch Lomond. I really liked it.
It was great to see the faith that Peugeot put in this car, despite it being something of a lame duck at the beginning. It really is a smart looking little 80s car, I think better looking than the Talbot Arizona proposal.
The Simca Horizon really did save Chrysler in more ways than one. Especially, since the K Car platform was derived from it.
Nice to hear the story of my beloved 309 and this explains why the Talbot logo is everywhere on the car.
Hello from Iran! 🖐 although we had interaction before but I wanted to say thank you for your awesome videos.
Iran has a weird automotive industry and a tendency to keep cars in production for decades. Although we have cars called “national car” but they are not completely designed by Iranian firms. Well, there is a long history...
Yeah, it was a very great market for PSA. Bottom question: why arabe or whatever persian, never built there own cars? As civilisation you ”choose” camel
@@augure2589 Iranians speak persian and arab countries speak arabic, two different languages, simple. There are Iranian car brands here but their platforms are from foreign manufacturers. Examples are Samand, Dena, Shahin..
The Peugeot 309 was our family car in the 90s. Good memories.
Same here. From there, we went on to the VW Passat (the one without a front grille), but I still remember the 309 distinctively.
We went on from the 309 to a Renault Megane. We got a call from the police about 3 months after we sold it to tell us that the car had been found burnt out after being used as a getaway car. Even though we weren’t the registered owners, they thought we should know just in case anything came our way. My mother was quite heartbroken as she really loved that car.
@@henrybalkwill3276 shame
We had two so my dad must have liked it. I do remember the first one having a rattling dashboard. Went to Volvo 440 after that
@@JesterEric my dads car has a rattling dashboard its fine when its warm it just happens when its cold i think a wire is against it
I had a Peugeot 309GRi which was the 1990 facelift model. I gave it a few modifications inc a K&N induction kit. I had actually wanted a 309GTi but I wanted one with rear doors as I'd just had my second child. At the time I couldn't find what I wanted so got the GRi which had the same engine as the 1.6 205GTi and the same 'pepperpot' alloys. The 309 GRi was more of an executive spec than a sporty one. I absolutely loved the car and did a ridiculous amount of miles in it.
After
Afterwards I owned a 205 Junior, a 405 & a 406 estate which I loved too.
My dad had a 1992 J reg GLD in Topaz Blue.
Loved that car.
Handled as if it was on rails, extremely comfortable ride and mechanically bomb proof.
While the styling was out of line with other Peugeot cars of the era, it was a good looking car in its own right.
The GTI actually has a better balanced chassis than the 205 GTI and that is saying something.
Great video, my first car 1.1 L, 60 hp engine, LOOK equipment, some lenone green safty bealts.
Loved that car.
Love the way the Talbot badge always reminds of the Dead Kennedys logo.
Fascinating. I always thought the 309 was a bit oddball looking, now i know why.
Had a 309gti good wood ... loved it
Loved the 309, until the 306 came around it was a perfect runabout. One of my classmates had one and got our band of friends together for a road-trip to the beaches of Arcachon on the Atlantic coast at the end of the uni year in the late 90s. Great memories.
I always thought that 309 was just a liftback version of the 205. Turns out its story's a bit more complicated.
Same here!
Great video as always. Your knowledge and the archives you bring to the world are incredible !
I had one 309 bought in 1997 or so. A light Blue one with plate SJ-43-YR, don’t think it’s among us anymore but I liked it a lot. 🙂
The RDW says the plate is unknown. So either exported or scrapped.
Recently found your channel and really enjoyed many hours of videos! Keep making them as they’re all very interesting, informative and enjoyable
I always watch to the end, I have to see the out takes! Living in the U.S.A., we don't have many Euro cars other than the M-B, VW's and the like so it's nice to have some history on the other brands. Thanks for a job well done.
Though Columbo drove a Peugeot!!
@@elbecko7969 Peugeot left the states in 89 the last car sold there being the 405 of all cars, although most Pugs you might find in older American movies will be a 305 or a 505.
@@Hipas_Account I'm sure that when Peugeot left in 89, they made it back to France, the diesel ones at least. Those engines were bulletproof.
Another few years and the flair would take a serious nosedive.
I've got a mint cherry red phase 2 309gti, I love the way it looks, it's 80s 3 box simplicity and pinstripe details. Superb visibility and airy cabin with tiny a pillars. Like to be revved and driven hard. On modern michelin tyres the handling is sublime and suspension compliant. I love thrashing it around b roads, and at 975kg it can surprise most bloated modern cars at the lights and round the twisties
Wow! I completely forgot about this model. My neighbors had one when I was a kid. It was their Rover from "Keeping up the appearances" :)
My dad had a 309 GTI 1.9 GTI 5 doors MK2.
That car deleted all the 205 problems, better chassis, not as oversteering as the 205 and more stable at high speed. Amazing machine !
Bought a 309 GTi in Dec 95 and it was in the family for 10 years.. A great little car, handled so well...
At Mercury Comms, I had a white facelift 309GTI 3-door.... utterly superb to drive. Luckily I never discovered what crash survivability was! D309RGN, loved you x
07:15 Peak 80s.
I got frosted tips just from listening to the synthesizer.
if your interested the track is called: Instant Crush by Corbyn Kites
The 309 Best Line was my first car, I really can't say something bad about this car.
Thanks for this very interesting video, some memories came back. 😊
My first car was a Talbot Horizon. I had to kick the dashboard if I wanted heater to turn on.
I love a car with character like that! You have to slap the dashboard on a certain spot in my Proton to make the rev counter work! (I'm hopefully going to fix that soon...)
Kickstart
Mine was a Dodge Omni, it didn't have that problem but it did once leave me stranded with vapor lock. I don't miss carburetors!
@@Howlingd0g which Proton are you driving right now?
I love how in every video you upload there's always something different on the shelf behind you
I have a LOT of Lego!
I always get so excited when. I see these videos of cars which I grew up with! 🤩
Thanks for the vid 👍 I’ve got a phase 2 Gti sat In my garage, comes out to play when the weather is nice. Great cars.
First time seeing your channel. A brilliant little video. Thanks!
Cheers. Where would we be without your help. I had no idea 309 linked to old Talbot Chys lers
Please make an episode for the Mercedes w124! We would really love it!
My first ever car!!!! Sold it to my sister when I joined the army and the thing fell apart when she bought it 😂😂🤦🏻♂️
had this car in NZ in 1989 and sold it after 2 years (1991) when I left NZ. Good car with no issues in 50,000 miles then. I even remember the registration OB 4816.
Brilliant video as always! Always loved the 309. So thank you so much for doing a video on it! Could you do a video on the Horizon and Alpine too please 🚘🚗🚙
I had a 1.3 "style" version of the 309 back in the day. I really liked the car. It was very comfortable with soft compliant suspension. The engine was a bit underpowered, but was good enough for the day and reliable. Peugeot 205's and 309's also tended to be more resistant to rust. I really like your you tube channel it is both informative and very interesting. Thanks.
Fabulous ... excellent work as usual mate, well done
Drove one of the first diesels of these about a week before then went on official sale. Belonged to car leasing firm and they had to let me have it as my new Sierra was late. hated oil burners from that moment on.
I love this website. Always brilliantly researched, and fascinating for a car geek like me. 😊
I had one in the early 2000s - a 1986 5-door 1.3 GL in red, bought from the local car auction for £50. It lasted me 2 and a half years, once doing 1100 miles in 9 days on a holiday to Cornwall! It eventually died of rusty sills and some mechanical faults that weren't worth repairing. I didn't really get attached to it so I wasn't upset when I finally scrapped it, but it did the job and never broke down, even when something shot out of the side of the distributor leaving a neat rectangular hole in it.
I like these french cars from this era especially PSA cars ... nice and informative video as always
I would like a vauxhall carlton/omega video
Always loved Simca/Talbot and the 309. Peugeot really was on point in the 80's and the early '90s
Thanks, well researched as always. This car seemed to have a long and convoluted birth. Never driven one, but my company adopted later 405 turbo diesels, and these were very good.
I have Peugeot 309 MK2 with Simca Poissy G1A engine. I am very love this car. My grandpa bought the car in 1991.
Always an interesting and great video ! Thank you for your time and knowledge ! Have a fantastic Christmas and New Year sir. Best wishes from the tip of Africa, Cape Town !
I owned a D reg 309 gr profile in Wedgwood Blue in 2000. It was the most fun car I've owned! Dodgy carburettor, gear cable snapped, but it was a hoot. You never knew if you'd reach your destination without issue, but thats what made it fun. Only cost £500 too! :-)
Great video, very well researched as always 👍
I was just out of nowhere searching for this car.... Well done as usual
I read your mind José!
@@BigCar2 thank you so much for it....... Merry Christmas
My mom had 1 of those
My dad had a 2nd hand mk2 1.9 diesel which he taught me to drive in (as well as getting proper lessons in my instructor’s 306). The 1.9 straight diesel was fairly slow, but had a good bit of torque. I actually enjoyed driving it and didn’t know it was so closely related to the 205. The engine on my dad’s 309 would probably have lasted forever, but things kept going wrong with the rest of car as it aged, including having a hole in the footwell that let water leak in. After I bought myself a mk2 306 1.4 petrol my dad got himself a 306 1.9 diesel. Now while I loved driving my petrol 306, which I only reluctantly disposed of when enough things consistently went wrong, my dad’s diesel 306 really didn’t have the charm of the 309.
Love your channel! Keep up the good work! 😀😀
Amazing inside documentary on car history your knowledge and expertise put some mainstream car shows to shame, thank you for your videos happy Christmas and New year, from Albania.
It's amazing what you can learn from Wikipedia...
Thanks mr Big Car! As a 309 owner, I could not wait for this video!
How the Chrysler Avenger ever did badly is beyond me. Good equipment levels, good engineering, willing engines, good chassis and all contained in a good looking package and it still struggled, madness!
I also really liked the Tagora despite it tanking. My mum had a '77 Chrysler Alpine though and I remember she loved it after initially despising it as she preferred her old Morris Minor Traveller. The Alpine would do the do with aplomb until some mad old bat slammed into it at high speed in a tight country lane in her brand new MG Metro, bad times. The alpine was great though, a lovely place to sit! It made for a handy cross country mile muncher.
As for the 309... I wanted a 1.9 GTi for the longest time! I missed that boat and any remaining cars are now light years ahead of my meagre budget! The GTi was a good looking car in either 3 or 5 door formats.
Thanks for another excellent video!
P.s. digging the Jeep build of the Lego Test Car behind you!
I owned a 309 SRi 4 door "E reg" in my youth and it was amazing , 20 years later its still one of the most fun cars ive ever driven even though you never knew if it was going to start up or not :)
Very well put together......
I came here for the documentary and stayed for the bloopers 😜.
Keep the content coming 👍👍
No bloopers in the next video (I hope!).
Love your work
My first car in 98 was a sky blue 309. Blew a core plug, but was a nice little run around.
You're brilliant, Big Car guy.
The only Rootes Group/Chrysler I owned was a 1966 Sunbeam Alpine, 1725 engine, overdrive, and wire wheels. It was a great car, and I think I paid a little under $2,000 for it brand new. I was looking as some online with the hopes I could pick up a cheap one, but now such luck. One needing a lot of work was going for $7,000, and fully restored models going for $25,000. So much for that idea!
I hadn’t noticed how small the doors were for the rest of the car...I can’t unsee that now.
To be fair I can't unsee it now either!
Personal opinions and all that but I do think the 3 door model looked less obvious small door wise!
The Ford Fairlane is another example of this.
Another excellent piece. Friends who worked for (or were linked to) PSA told me that the 309 monicker was settled on to underline the "not from here" origins of the model.
I thought the styling touches added to the Arizona made it look quite "Peugeot", but within PSA there was a degree of disdain.
These things were (as you say) tinny, but they were also reliable and pleasant to drive.
It was a much more usable car than the 205, which was just tiny. The 309 was much more Escort sized.
Good video.
Great video! One sidenote though, the first car to come out in the x06 line up was the 106, not the 306.
Great video as always!
There were a couple of 309s in my family when I was a child, my great uncle had a G reg Look and my mums cousin had a J reg 309
superb content as per usual!
Great car ! Wish I had never sold my 309 GLD
Used to see these all over the place; can't recall the last time I saw one 'in the wild'. Styling, while a bit of a outlier in Peugeot's range at the time for the reasons you outline, has aged rather well, I think. Another fine video, sir. :) Been a a great distraction while recovering from a pulled/torn back muscle since the 9th Dec. All the best for 2021!
This is my absolute favourite RUclips channel. Every video you do is so interesting and informative. As a Chrysler owner (2008 300c CRD) I would love to see a video on the history of the Chrysler 300c and its evolution. Thanks again for a great channel and keep up the good work ❤️👍👌
Thanks Jason, and thanks for the suggestion.
Hey it's my first car :) It was relatively nice to drive but had such weird design decisions that maintenance was bitch and man those auto choke carbs were just pain in the ass.
Peugeot 309 was a belter & I had one which was very reliable.
Loved to know the story behind this car. I thought you would comment on the impacts on the current peugeot nomenclature. Amazing video as always!
Exactly, they stopped at x08, presumably to avoid re-using the 309 name. Though Wikipedia’s page on the 301 claims x01 is for emerging markets and x08 is for ‘traditional’ markets.
As usual a great background story. I often thought the 309 looked a bit out of place in the line up, now I know why.
Can You Make Citroen Xsara story plsssss ❤️
Zx évolution
2.0 VTS :)
@@missionseven7972 Yes... Xsara story +1!
Included the Xsara Picasso