Bienvenue mes enfants! I've been disobedient again, revising those busted old V-60 recipes everyone copies from everyone else. I've stripped out the Third Wave rituals to highlight the genuine elements of pour-over perfection, which led me to a better technique and fresh insights into the right gear as well. Enjoy!
@@wiredgourmet let's not go down the road of viewing anyone with legit questions as the "sheep" of coffee culture that cant comprehend what you are doing. The comments I read weren't dogmatically defending anything...they had legitimate questions and were curious about your response. You, however, seemed to shy away from those comments and instead focus on the ones praising your "ways". I hope the 4th wave that you want to usher in includes open discourse. I guess it's fine to put current coffee culture under the microscope of scrutiny, but when the same is done to you it's just people being "butt blasted"
Merci beaucoup mon père ! I have a history of filtering spirits with paper cones (molita ones at first ^^), and because for that matter it gives an hawlful lot of taste, my own solution (time wasting for coffee maybe) was to infuse a numbers of these papers in a big bowl of pre-boiling hot water 3 or... 5 times, drying them before use. The paper will be more fragile unfortunately, but it works indeed on my work
While I do really like the ethos of dispelling all of the pseudo-science in a lot of pourover brewing recommendations / theory (god there's so much), I did have some questions/thoughts about some of the things you said in this video - I sincerely apologise for the length in advance 😆 I'll go in mostly chronological order: - "There's nothing magical about 1:16": While I agree that there's no sense in just always defaulting to the same ratio for every pourover, I do think it's a good idea to mention that your ratio is definitely going to have an impact on the mechanics of your pourover - you're not going to get something tasty out of a 1:4 ratio without some serious agitation, really high temperatures (and steady), and a somehow very long contact time, and even then I'm not convinced it's going to happen in a standard V60 or other pourover dripper without modification. My own experiments are of course anecdotal, but what isn't is the relationship between TDS/extraction, and ratio. With that in case, in terms of what people usually prefer, I do usually advocate starting from 1:15 - 1:17 and adjusting (possibly outside this range) to taste, but also to make sure the mechanics of the recipe / brewing method you're using actually make brewing good coffee possible. For example, with a Tricolate brewer, you get some really interesting (and imo, tasty!) results at really high ratios - think 1:20 - 1:22 - because of the lack of bypass. Mechanics matter! - "A scale is just a distraction": This one I vehemently oppose - using a scale, you can ensure that you use the exact same amount of water for every brew and (at least roughly) same amount of water in every pour. I know you make a point of weighing everything before the brew begins, but some of that water is going to evaporate out of your kettle as you brew, and there's no real understanding of what a "sensible amount of water" is. With experience you'd get better at guess-timating how much water for each pour, but before this experience is accrued, you could very easily over/under pour one of the pours enough to influence the mechanics of your brew, and just using a scale to match up each pour weight will lend itself to more consistent brews and far easier dialling in of grind size. A good experiment (imo a fun one! very eye-opening) is to decant the liquid in your server/carafe/cup after each pour into a different cup, and taste the results. In any case, a scale is really not a distraction and is very useful in increasing consistency - just as timing your brews and making sure you always pour at fixed intervals would help. Of course you advocate for this method to only be a starting point, but I think it's hard to really evaluate a method if it has inconsistency built-in - I'll touch on this later. - Temperature: you advocate for choosing a water temperature which gets you a fixed slurry temperature, which I like the idea of, however you use a kettle which sits without being temperature controlled. There are two scenarios: 1) This doesn't actually matter when it comes to maintaining the target slurry temperature - in this case, everyone with temperature controlled kettles should instead leave their kettles off their bases. 2) This does matter - the slurry temperature later on will be lower in accordance with the drop in temperature of the water in the kettle. In this case temperature controlled kettles are favoured, and indeed this is what I suspect, though I have not tested this myself. Have you? Would love to hear about it! - Agitation: at least as you've outlined, this method has decidedly inconsistent agitation. It's nigh on impossible to impart a fixed amount of agitation brew to brew in the way outlined in the video, and especially with a spoon. Fixing contact time and temperature (and the obvious, ie: how much water, how much coffee, method, brewer etc) will not fix extraction if you vary the agitation, so it becomes important to try and have some consistency if you want consistent brews, which in turn will help you adjust your recipe and other brewing variables to taste. Even some guidance with how long to stir for would help, but this isn't given in the video. A simple experiment that will illustrate this (that I'm guessing you've already done) is to brew a V60 with whichever method you like twice - no agitation the first time and increased agitation the second. Even the stream of water being poured into the slurry will impart some agitation to the brew, and so pour height, flow rate and once again the weight of each pour come into play, so adding more inconsistency by a blanket "just keep agitating" recommendation seems against progress to me, like it'd make it harder to tweak and dial in. Do you not find this / agree? - Percolation: a number of times in this video you talk about percolation being the wrong thing to strive for, and present this method as "just paper-filtered immersion" - this just isn't true? Percolation (in pourover coffee brewing) refers to the process of the water poured in moving through the porous medium which is of course the coffee bed, and picking up solubles. This is always going to happen in a brewer like this - some immersion style extraction is happening too sure, but to say there is no percolation is to say there is no fluid moving through the coffee bed at all, which of course is happening in the video and in any V60 / pourover brew (you could come up with a pathological example, say a Hario Switch brew with the stopper engaged so you just get immersion, and then you just dump all the liquid out, but no ones doing that day in day out haha). I understand the longer percolation brews where minimal agitation a relatively full cone is used is what you're trying to stand against, and I really like the idea of using fresh solvent (water) frequently as opposed to a single pour for example (I myself use a bloom + 4 pours), but this doesn't mean percolation just isn't happening 🤣 - Fines migration: you don't talk *that* much about fines migration/management in the video, is there a reason why? I know you say to not dislodge fines from the filter paper and not excavate too deeply, but I don't know that this is enough - especially given the inconsistency with agitation. There are useful recommendations out there to manage fines and it's really quite important - especially when interpreting brew time and striving for inconsistent extraction. The fines aren't always going to sit on the filter paper, some will inevitably get to the bottom of the coffee bed and influence flow in a big way. In your brews, you seem to catch a lot of fines along the walls of the filter paper which is great, but how consistent is this given that the agitation is inconsistent,? Do you still deal with clogging issues due to fines migration? You have a pretty good grinder in the modded Specialita there, but I wager that those people attempting to start from this method using a conical burr grinder that isn't as good as the grinders in the video may have some issues - do you have any recommendations for them? You do have this adjusted method you use for the Niche where you use a faster filter, a dripper with faster flow and a lower contact time, but would this not just lead to a lower extraction of the target grind size and increase bypass a lot? Not that this is necessarily undesirable, but if the user of the method doesn't like this different profile, are they not just screwed? The Niche is also pretty decent as far as conical burr grinders go - what of someone using something like a Baratza Encore / Wilfa Svart? - Bypass: the ridges in a V60 or on the conical drippers you showed are there to hold the filter away from the walls of the dripper (or in the case of ridged flat bottom filters, of course the filter does the job itself) - if you get a complete seal, you'll choke the flow of coffee out and get a fairly over-extracted brew (eg: think of the classic stalled Chemex). These ridges do unfortunately introduce bypass as a byproduct (I'm proud of that one 😆) - not that bypass is an inherently bad thing, but it can mask the other mechanics of a given brew, eg: if you have a brew which has some clogging starting to happen, but a lot of bypass starts happening at the same time, you can mask the effects of clogging on flow rate, but the extraction profile will still be way off. This is also why the brew you did in the metal holder took ages - there was nowhere for the water to bypass the bed, and so now fines management/prevention of clogging becomes a HUGELY important thing (and as you said, grinding coarser is not the answer, which is why I'm confused as to why you didn't touch on fines management more than you did). Just thought I'd add this as you didn't talk too much about bypass in the video, although there's tons more to be said about bypass in general. - Dripper design: Another thing I'd just like to add - I think some more considerations on dripper material are important when it comes to choosing one you want to use - eg: if you're going for a higher slurry temperature you may want to opt for a plastic dripper sure, but also a double walled dripper such as the Stagg X/XF from Fellow is one to consider, actually keeping a higher and more stable temperature than the plastic V60. Last question: you talk a lot about standing against the religious pseudo-science in the industry, but while a lot of these recommendations have some clear cut theory behind them, a lot also don't - are there some sources / experiments you can point to to back up some of your theory/hypotheses? Thanks so much for making this video and reading this far if you did 😆 to better home brewing!
Great boo- (cough cough) -I mean comment. I had some of the exact same thoughts as you. I know it’s not my place to judge intent, but at this point I feel the gourmet is just trying to be intentionally inflammatory…
The idea that pour over should be strict percolation is a made up idea based on nothing, most likely a marketing strategy made up by cafes .... whaaaat??? What is that even suppose to mean ? Is he talking against a low agitation technique? Using a scale is a distraction and to measure pours is to impress customers?? There's so many ways to prepare coffee and so many different preferences we should be open minded, not arrogant / ignorant.
lol, great comment! Additionally, he creates a narrative based on "cafe myths vs home brewing" but I don't see anything like that in real life. Most of the time I use all these fancy scales, different cones etc. in home while the coffee shops serve random batch brews haha
Congratulations gab. You win the yt comments prize for the day. I agree on many of your points. Agree on the scale. I tried the recipe using a scale. Had the same thought as you regarding temperature control. The pours occur over a 3 minute span and theyre roughly what? 400 ml water to start with? That small amount of water will certainly cool down by a few degrees in 3 minutes. Maybe more than a few. I happen to have a 2# bag of washed Ethiopian yerg that is just not all that great so I'm happy to be able to tinker to my heart's content without guilt. First batch, small improvement. I was too concerned about hitting the brew time to the point that I made the grind 3 clicks finer on my jxpresso hand grinder. A very small amount of astringency crept in. I credit this video with giving me the impetus to go that much finer. I did put my kettle back on the gas stove after pour #4. Agitation after pour 4 seemed irrelevant as the bed had achieved a very consistent and uniform feel. I'll learn as I go. Ultimately the improvement seems to stem primarily from a finer grind and mostly from a huge change in ratio from 16 or 17 down to about 13:1. I brewed at 12 but added an ice cube (which is my wont, about 10g) and even then it was too strong. So added another spritz of filtered water. I probably could experiment with just the ratio and see if there's much difference WITHOUT all the agitation. Filter paper, Hario bleached untabbed, probably the defacto standard, and for good reason. And yes, Melitta unbleached is unusable. At least for brewing something that you might consume. The coffee is marginally better but this particular roast is never going to be great. There's just so much you can do to try and massage a mediocre roast.
@@ggusta1 Thanks for this! Always great to experiment and talk about it! The woes of massaging a mediocre roast to get to the best possible cup are definitely relatable 🤣 I've been thinking about the possible change in the importance of agitation as a brew continues for a while actually - my current guesses (not tested) are that it depends a lot on pour structure and dripper geometry, but I don't really wanna go further because they're all very shaky guesses based on anecdotal evidence. I should say I do advocate for agitation to be as carefully controlled and consistent as possible throughout the brew, whether it's low and in short bursts, high and constant etc. Honestly my real aversion to such a low ratio comes from considerations of efficiency and cost - if I can make my brewing process more efficient in extracting favourable solubles from the grounds, I can use a higher ratio of water:coffee and my bag lasts longer. If I use a lower ratio but get the same average extraction % / TDS, I feel cheated out of extra coffee haha. I may get a different extraction *profile* , but I'm not entirely convinced it's impossible to reach such a profile with the higher ratio by replicating the change in brewing mechanics that happens when you make your coffee bed that much larger. Even if that proves hard, I definitely ask myself: is this difference in *profile* worth the extra money? Is it actually that big of a taste difference at all? As far as conical filters go, I'm definitely another huge fan of the Hario bleached untabbed for the speed of flow and the filtration.
It's like a miracle! I have had little success with other popular V60 techniques, but I'm now enjoying consistently tasty coffee using the Voodoo. One thing that stands out is stirring. Normally stirring is frowned upon, but I think it is the key to the quality of coffee produced using the Voodoo. Stirring produces consistent extractions. Sometimes I forget to grab a spoon before I start, but missing the first stir doesn’t degrade the result. The Voodoo is easily scalable with small grind adjustments. I have been brewing with a 12 to 1 ratio using 15, 20 or 25 grams of coffee. The math is easy, multiply the coffee weight by 2 to calculate the amount of water added during each pour. The total amount of water is simply 7 times that. Easy math even first thing in the morning. The 30 second intervals are also easy to deal with before my first cup. Pour x grams of coffee every 30 seconds. No calculator or chart needed. Brilliant! This method seems (so far) to be very tolerant of different coffees. I use a scale under my coffee cup. It helps to limit over-pours. In time I think the scale will be unnecessary, however, it also serves as my timer. Cheers to The Wired Gourmet!
Oh god thomas you are the WIZZARD OF OZ of coffee.... as a hobbyists and a barista I have done filter coffee on the regular for years. Had many great recipes and delved into the more asian recipes as of late which are the type that demands that one "does not disturb" the coffeebed. It still has it's place in my opinion as it still pulls a very particular style cup/profile that could be very enjoyable ( I would describe it just as a different style) but your V60 method is the most consistent method for the least amout of error I have had in a long time. It reminds me of how the chemex tastes which is a good thing and it motivated me to get a better grinder haha! I have by the way mostly started using the wave papers for my chemex now and it tastes amazing!!
Hi I'm currently diving into v60.. then this video came up... Have you checked the single pour technique from tales coffee ? I mean the technique also breaking some 'rules'.. would like some insight from your perspective. :D
I bought a v60 glass brewing kit today. When I start using it I will implement your technique and follow your tips and hints. I must say though, after looking at over a dozen videos on the v60 and reading the comments in those videos including this one, many people seem to be overly sensitive regarding this brew method and split hairs like there’s no tomorrow with a whiff of snobbery. In the movie The Perfect Date, one of the side characters who has an obsession with coffee rambles on about the distinction of pour over coffee which reminded me of the comments throughout all the videos online. There’s even a thread where chemistry students start going into the chemistry of pour over with technical jargon. This video cuts through all that nonsense and is beneficial to help anyone brew a nice tasting pour over.
I am recently new to the V60 brewing and found your video quite interesting. What was not mentioned (afaik) was that this is a 2-cup V-60. I have a 1-cup V-60 so when I tried your measurements (35g grinds, etc) it nearly overflowed, reaching close to the rim which would not allow for water to be added. So I dumped out enough to have about 20g grinds. Can you comment on this and what optimal grams of coffee should be used in 1-cup V-60? My Vario white filters do not show a "speed" of paper, they are made in Japan and the English doesn't mention a rating for water steeping through it. My first try at a 5 min brew with my 20g coffee seems a bit bitter to me which I would expect for that long a brew. I use a Baratza Encore burr grinder setting of 12 which is the same setting I use for Aeropress and the Moka pot. Even a Chemex doesn't brew for that length of time. Please comment.
So with an aeropress I can have the positives of immersion and filtration, can grind finer/have more fines and just control the brew time however I want?
I've been experimenting with V60 for a while now and all I can say is that if I want a consistently good cup of coffee, I go for an Aeropress with a very long immersion time.
This is a really great video. Just love the way you challenged all the rules. At first, it seemed very complex, but as you kept explaining, I understand what parameters are more important. Looking forward to mastering your voodoo method. Thank you for an amazing video.
As a non-native English speaker I've only come across "percolation" in terms of coffee brewing. But I'm confused about your dismissal of it. My understanding is that percolation is as opposed to immersion. One being where the water flows through the coffee grounds (some water being in contact with the coffee some of the time) and one being where the water sits with the grounds for the entire brew (all of the water in contact with the grounds for all of the time). Isn't a pour over by that definition percolation?
There isn't really an accurate label for the Voodoo method. I call it paper-filtered immersion, but that's not strictly correct either. The important point is that it's not a "strict" percolation method; you have a lot of freedom to adapt it and refine it for your own preferences. It's chiefly about flexibility.
My goodness! I don't know where you get your ideas from, but I think you're on to something. I have unknowingly gravitated towards pouring 5-6 pours every 30 seconds and spinning after every pour but I think your method is something I need to look into. Thank you once again for an amazing video and really looking forward to the 9Barista review. Also did you notice that James Hoffman took inspiration from your moka pot voodoo?
This method really makes a huge difference to the taste of my coffee and for the better! Was going to try some of those cotton filters but Amazon sold out here in the UK. Can you do a Kalita Wave method sometime in the future - cheers great channel PS - I have exactly the same cheap scales and they’ve been great , better than my Hario ones that just went weird after a couple of years
So if it get this correctly : approx. 6 or so equal-ish pours every 30 secs. Somewhat long brew time of 4 to 6 minutes with a spoon stir after every pour. Frequent re-seat of the filter. Short 10:1 ratio and fine pour over grind ? I don't get the percolation bashing. Isin't a conical / flat bed dripper a percolation device ??
Good question. I would say use any ratio you like, but shoot for a 2-3 min brew time. Reason is, with so little water passing through, you'd have to grind super fine to slow it that much, and the flavor would likely suffer. If it tastes harsh, I would grind coarser still. 1.5 mins would not be insanely fast for a single cup.
I kinda want to see someone make immersion coffee using a beaker and stir bar for the full brew time, then quickly decant it into a vacuum filtration funnel to pull it through a fine paper filter in the shortest possible time while removing all of the fines. I suspect that the result will be quite similar to a siphon pot or vacuum pot coffee, since the mechanism is similar, but you'd get more control over the brew temperature and amount of agitation. I just want to see how a chemist would engineer a brew.
You should absolutely be challenging received wisdom wherever you find it. I would say though that most guys online are not commercially driven, they are inquisition driven. Coffee nerds generally like to know why stuff works, not just that it does, and that includes many specialty baristas.
I didn't mean to imply that they're motivated by commercial interests; I meant that the conventional wisdom they've absorbed comes from an industry dominated by commercial, rather than gastronomic, concerns.
Excited to hear your take on the 9barista. That thing is a super cool piece of engineering at the very least. Have you heard of the Nomad espresso machine? Brian Quan and Lance Hedrick put up videos on it. I'm curious to hear how you think it stacks up against the Robot, since you're such a big advocate of the Robot. I picked one up over the Robot because it was quite a bit cheaper and has some interesting possibilities due to a large internal reservoir. I enjoy it a lot, but I do always wonder about what could have been. Haha.
Similar along the lines, how does one make a 500ml one? Grind less fine. 600 ml water to 50g coffee? How does this technique taste vs Hoffmann one? I will try tomorrow. Lol
@@eddyindia7007 Those are the right measures for my preferred ratio. You might be able to grind finer than usual and still keep the brew around 5 - 6 mins total. If your grinder makes a lot of fines, you'll probably want a faster brew, 4 to 4.5 mins, say. Well, Voodoo isn't really a recipe; it's a method that you can tweak and adapt to just about any recipe, ratio, flavor profile, etc. It's all about flexibility :)
If it tastes good it is good, that's a fact. Not only is it a fact, but also the guiding principle behind all the brewing guidelines at all the halfway decent cafes I've worked at. I'm always for throwing out the rulebook. But most baristas are just people who like coffee, making it as good as they know how. Besides, a longer brew ratio saves a cafe jack squat. The only real profit pressure on brew methods in cafes is how much active barista time is required... I'm looking at you, mod bar automatic pourovers
I actually find 1 to 16 ratio to be a sweet spot. However much coffee I’m brewing I use x18 water, which gets about x16 out. I found that ratio to be generally good for me before I knew it was the “standard”. This does remind me though that I should experiment with ratio more often just to further explore my coffees
Thomas, thank you! It would be handy to have written steps, so I'm sharing my notes: 35 g coffee 420 g water 96°C (This is 1 to 12 ratio as I count) Make a little depression Every 30 seconds pour sensible amount of water and stir gently with narrow spoon During first minute break any dry coffee clumps so all coffee is in contact with water Re-seat filter before 3rd pour at 1 minute (an optional re-seat toward the end) Overall brew time is around 5 minutes.
Voodoo is all about being flexible and adaptable. If you're using Melitta papers, I would be careful about re-seating and even stirring; the seams are not well made. Cafec makes good ones with that shape, but I don't know who sells them. For a standard 4-cup dripper, you can look for a 4-6 min brew depending on your taste, and for the small ones, 2-3 mins. I think you can get away with a pretty fine grind using their papers, IIRC, but I really don't like the taste. I would look for sturdier, cleaner-tasting aftermarket ones. Good luck.
Still some benefit to using longer ratios at home. Those light specialty beans don’t come cheap. 😂 I will be playing with your method for the coming week. I can only hope it is as good as the moka pot tutorial.
Holy moly ! I don't have words to describe the result! I was really scared of how it would turn out . I imagined it would be bitter. Although I'm using Melitta papers and soon will change to a cloth filter. Many thanks, my dear Wired . You have awaken me from my 1:16 slumber
I am curious what range grind setting you are using for the Niche Zero, since it calibrates so reliably. I understand there will be variation depending on the bean, but do you have a starting point/range before tweaking the grind size on the Niche?
Mine works for pourover between 35 and 40. Of course YMMV depending on how you calibrated it, and what coffee you're using, but that's a reasonable range to start dialing in.
@@wiredgourmet Thank you, that is the range I have been working with. I've been using lighter roasted coffees which have been producing mountains of fines causing my pour overs to stall, especially large batch (900 ml) brews. I just ordered some medium to darker roasts to isolate the roasting process from my particular coffee supplier.
@@emilycarpenter5965 It will be a challenge making such large batches using the Zero, but darker roasting should allow you to grind coarse enough for flow and still get good flavor. Good luck :)
Great video, thank you so much! I have a question - do you think a gooseneck/temp controlled kettle are actually noticable upgrades for v60 style brews?
@@wiredgourmet thank you so much for the reply! If I may suggest a topic for a video where your approach is sorely needed - water for coffee. There is so much contradicting information and complexity, and so little feasible and substantiated recommendations.
I will try this and I love the idea of striving for pure taste improvements rather than optimising the economics. However, I would most definitely weigh the individual pours to increase repeatability. Also, since I boil more water than I actually need to have a higher temperature consistency, I would need to weigh my brew. Before having tasted the resulting brew, I would suspect that this yields a very well to over extracted brew with little sourness since your recipe requires me to grind finer, agitate more, and brew longer than what I would do with my current technique. If you look primarily for richness in coffee, this might be the perfect recipe then. If you like the vibrancy of fruit and sourness then a third wave recipe might be better suited. However, I‘m curious to see if my prediction will actually come true.
Circle back and let us know how it goes. Honestly, tho, I think you'll find that just the timing as I demonstrated will give you excellent repeatability. Have fun :)
How do you compare the taste from your v60 and the diluted aeropress also from your technique? For me I don't get better taste from hand pour and it is more work... Curious about what you think. Thank!
@@wiredgourmet My first try used the last of a fairly dark roasted bean that I've been using up, tastes OK but a little over roasted to my taste. I adjusted my grind blindly but aggressively smaller on my 1zpresso JX Pro, roughly halfway between old V60 and somewhat coarse espresso. Made a few mistakes brewing but nothing horrible, but landed at a 4 minute brew time with Hario bagged white filters that came with my V60 rig. The result was a much richer, bolder cup of coffee, that I frankly didn't love, but I blame the beans for this one. I clearly see what this method aims for, and I approve. Time to finish this cup and head to the roaster for a fresh bag.
You cite the fact that many coffee RUclipsrs are former cafe baristas as the reason why they promote longer ratios. This doesn’t stand up when you consider that most of them now sell their own roasted coffee. Surely if you were to be cynical, their vested interest would be in promoting much shorter ratios, and thus flogging more of their product? I enjoy your content - you clearly have a great deal of mechanical knowledge and I’ve found many of your grinder / espresso machine / gadget videos insightful and helpful. I also like the fact that you’re not afraid to go against the grain in the pursuit of debunking perceived mistruths. However, you can at times be binary in your opinions and, plainly, I don’t agree with a lot of the points you make here.
This is a fantastic approach to pour over. My usual recipe is Comandante setting of 18 for 20g/300ml coffee /water ratio. The voodoo methods fit perfectly. I don't typically stir quite so much so this was a change. The result using glass V60 with Hario papers was very rich and tasty and delicious.
@@wiredgourmet I thought the stirring would cause erratic flow but it does not. I only measure the water flow and it is very smooth. Hit my target exactly at average 1.5ml/sec for 3.0 minute brew. Your examples use 5 minute much longer. Is there anything special about 5 minutes. From your. Video, I presume that if i want to try 5 minute brew, i should use slow filter and not just grind ever finer. Currently use Hario white filters.
@@bob2771 There's nothing special about 5 mins, I just like a little bite on the palate. You're right, best not to simply grind finer; you can get harshness that way. A slower paper or a slower rig, maybe a hair finer grind, that sort of approach, to sneak up on the flavor you want. I've tried to make V60 Voodoo adaptable and tweakable for just about everyone :)
I’m not a V60 drinker but I certainly enjoyed the video and your explanation for your approach. I wonder if you’d be keen on sharing your way of brewing espresso? Sorry if you’ve published one already.
YES! Perfect timing, I recently bought a V60 and have been getting a feel for it. As I used it I began to suspect a lot of the "common wisdom" was regurgitated bullshit. For instance, I didn't think the usual rinse was transferring enough heat energy from the water to the porcelain to keep it from being a heat sink. I actually preheat mine in the toaster oven and when I get a chance I'm going to test the various methods with a thermocouple. I'm really enjoying your cut through the crap, nothing is sacred, and results driven voodoo series. I haven't been doing this long and it's shocking to watch people with years of experience blindly perform steps that I have identified as dubious. I feel vindicated watching this video lol. Can't wait to try out what I've learned and I'm excited for the upcoming 9barista video!
I've noticed out of trial and error that my pour overs were better when I used the glass Hario with their paper filters with a grinder primarily made for espresso. Never understood why was that, thanks for the explanation!
what if we use coffee which has faster draw down time (new process style coffees generally like that or we can use a little bit old coffee), how can we arrange 4-6 minutes time with that kind of beans? Is it ok to reduce time to 3 mins?
Ironically, the kind of coffee you're talking about often tends to be high-altitude, dense, hard and resists extraction, so finer grinding and slower brewing helps with flavor. Maybe try a slower filter paper, finer grinding (within reason), and maybe brew larger batches using more coffee and more water, to increase contact time.
Interesting take on v60 but I don't understand why you recommend pulse pouring? Why not just pour all your liquid in the v60 and stir vigorously before allowing to drain? Surely that would achieve a faster brew with a similar level of extraction?
Great question. Recall what I said about your solvent getting saturated or loaded. A pulsed pour exposes the coffee to a progressively less loaded solvent which definitely yields a broader range of flavors than say French press or Clever. I will be going into this in depth in a followup video.
It's enclosed, so it keeps the water hot enough for 3 mins; it pours smoothly without splashing, and I like how it looks and feels in my hand. Good enough reasons, I think :)
My first words after my first sip when I tried this method….OH MY GOSH!!!! Bravo and thanks for your no BS approach. I happened to get a 4:50 brew time on my first try which was cool. The only thing I really don’t like is the 1:10 ratio, just in the sense that it’d make me go through my coffee a lot faster, but man this flavor might be worth it….
Watching the water just sit there cooling off is the only thing that upset me, but I'm assuming that was just for the shot.. since coffee doesn't really brew when the water you're using cools off..
You would think so, but water is a special substance with a specific heat higher than any other common substance. (You have to add a lot of energy to heat it, and remove a lot to cool it.) So, throughout the 3 mins it takes to use it, it stays very close to the starting temp if you use an insulating pad and an enclosed vessel, as shown. Counterintuitive, but there it is :)
I'm all for new techniques and for the sharing of knowledge in the pursuit of coffee greatness, but respectfully I think you missed the landing here. You're trying to call out coffee culture for being pseudoscientific and pretentious, which I always support, but you've somehow managed to come off as at least equally prescriptive and pseudoscientific. You're just picking your own set of variables that "matter" but providing little actual evidence that it's any better. You really think a specialty coffee shop, who's main aim is to create an amazing cup of coffee and experience for it's guests, is using a 1:16 or whatever ratio and careful, easily repeatable and measured technique, is doing so to pinch pennies? Nah man..
He doesn't interest in coffee or industry cliches. So this method could never win the WBC. But his point is to make the home users, who don't have - mostly - professional water sources, equipment, etc., can get the most out of coffee.
Your grounds look waaaay finer than any other v60 videos I’ve ever seen (or any brews I have ever made). I usually find it gets a little bitter, why do you think it tastes good when you do it?
@@chris9650 bitterness is moreso from overextraction. Using his mokapot technique for example, the coffee that results is sweet, creamy, and not at all bitter, but extremely strong. I had to swap from the Community Special Dark I was using to a medium-light roast, since the dark was just too intense. I also have a cheap espresso machine with a 15 bar pump. When it channels, some of the puck gets overextracted, and the result is bitterness. His entire technique here is to ensure that nothing is over or underextracted, so I have no doubt he avoids this problem.
Yes, finer grinding will show more bitterness, but also more sweetness and body. Coarse grinding leans toward light and acidic brews. But the coffee itself has a lot of influence on that. It's all on a sliding scale.
So i tried this today and i ground to fine leading to a brew more around 6 mins and a very bad taste. Do you have any recommendations for the dialing in process?
@@akuyara4420 Is your grinder producing a lot of fines? You can try grinding coarser, or lowering your slurry temp a bit, or speeding up the brew. Or all three :)
Nice video! I feel like people who carry these gastro-centric beliefs tend to roast at home. Having the bean to cup experience come from your own work really brings flavor and enjoyment to the front, rather than equipment!
This is a real channel for real people...and it feels 100% USA made. Trump´s miracle, the music, the accent, the exagerated number of tools and products tested...I love it.
@@wiredgourmet The coffee industry manages to exceed the wine industry in its hubris and pseudo scientific marketing. And that is hard to do. Just don't drink a coffee for a year and I assure you that your first sip of coffee will taste like drinking bonfire. It is how addiction messes with your taste value system.
Percolation style brewing actually predates third wave coffee by decades. Japan is actually where this tradition originates. That’s why all the brewing equipment we use is from there. I’d agree with your comments on agitation to an extent but there are times where you might want to be gentle. A lot of these techniques were meant to mitigate negative flavors in darkly roasted and poor quality specialty coffees. I’ve actually been thinking a lot about the preciousness that we treat coffee. It’s off-putting to a lot of people, seen as pretentiousness. Keep in mind that there is no “ordinary” coffee. Every single bean that goes into a cup is touched multiple times by human hands. Picking, sorting, packaging, shipping, brewing. It’s not so unusual that there should be a sense of ceremony around this precious substance. If coffee is either science or religion, I choose religion. 🙌🏻☕️
Great content as always. I do see your point about the market-driven forces at play; I also think a decent amount of the well-meaning platitudes shared just come from thinking "superficially" without tying to the physics. Having a more fundamentals-based approach is what I like so much about your explainers, because they give us mental tools to reason about our own needs & setup. Same for Jonathan Gagné's content and Physics of Filter Coffee book, and to a large extent Hoffmann, though he tailors for a broad audience. Anyhow, thanks. Use your temperature-surfing moka pot approach daily. If I could request some more Voodoo, would love to see your thoughts around the Clever brewer. I've adopted a Clever style that resonates with your themes in this video: water-first immersion technique with 1/2-2/3 initial dose (combined bloom + agitation + steep) for about a minute only, and then start the drain and apply a "rinse" with the remaining 3rd in a second percolation phase on top of the pitcher. You get the kinetics of capturing the preferrable fast-dissolving compounds while gaining a little more simplicity than some of the fussiness that V60 techniques require. I try to add the rinse water before the initial batch fully drains, so that the residual pool absorbs the splashes from my kettle and doesn't disturb the fines.
Thanks for your kind words. Enough WG viewers have asked about the Clever that I'm finally prepared to do a video about it. Not sure when, but it's on the list :)
I don't think the 4th wave of coffee will be televised so it's better to learn as many voodoos as we can. Thanks for the insights, especially on the variables that aren't mentioned as much as they deserve.
Damn man, you are really wierd indeed. So what about eureka oro single dose grinder, you stil own it? You said you were going to send it back to factory, and wait for the updated one to rewiev again.
I sent it back to Eureka at their request. They said they wanted to examine it in case it was defective. They will send me a SD 2.0 when they're available, and I will post an update about it.
What I gathered from this: 1) I brewed Chemex like this for years without giving it much thought. Fill to rim, stir, watch for the water level to fall below the bed, repeat. Even a separate blooming stage struck me as a bit of malarkey. My intuition was what mattered (if the slurry was mixed) was grounds surface area × time immersed, and your take seems to confirm this. Wish I had a burr grinder for those years, to better tune in the drawdown time. That has been rectified. 2) If the extraction ideal comes down to immersion (with the right ratio/grind size/temperature), then the Aeropress seems a better option than pour over. Swirling a few times is less fuss than stirring, cleanup is easier, less paper is required. I suspect we see single-serving pour-over at cafés precisely because the equipment is more aesthetic than the Aeropress, and pour over offers more opportunity for theatrics. 3) I have a timer integrated into my scale, its rechargeable, and its already out to weigh grounds. And its a bit more convenient than precisely measuring the water going into the gooseneck kettle. So no great loss using it through the whole process to measure total water in. That said some of the convoluted recipes I've seen (eg 60:40) always struck me as superstitious bulls**t. I think you're spot on that the most important target should be total time the grinds are exposed to water.
I don't know where the idea that coffee places do something to "impress" consuments comes from. A lot of times you just go to your table after order and they call you back when it's finished. Most of the people are not interested in standing still for 5 minutes and watching somebody make coffee. Also I don't agree on the thesis that there are some "rules set in stone" that people blindly follow. I have seen a lot of recipies and each one is different with/without agitation, one pour or multiple pours etc. Same with ratio: 60g/l is referred as a starting point to be adjusted and a lot of roasters suggest different ratio on their sites. Even the idea to use mostly immersion is not new, since there are devices like clever dripper/hario switch which do exactly that (and one could argue that will achive the promise of this recipie with more simplicity)
@@wiredgourmet Well 25g of coffee vs 15-16g of coffee per 250g of water SHOULD increase the intensity of the final output. I have a Monolith Flat grinder so that shouldn't be a limitation. Thanks to the overwhelming chorus of V60 recipes I'd never used common sense and pushed it as far as 10:1. Plus my espresso is SO good it's hard to get excited about anything else. Coming from a few decades of serious wine tasting I agree that the world of coffee flavours seems rather simple and underwhelming. Bringing a gourmet ethos/palette to bear on it may help but I doubt most of the inked up mob can be deprogrammed at this point. How do your brews measure on a Refractometer? I think that's a major reason professional Baristas think that pour overs are better. Their espresso is just so underextracted/badly roasted that they think something much weaker but at least comparatively more fully extracted is preferable.
@@chrissweet391 It's natural for people to pursue stoichiometric efficiency. Intuitively, we think it should be the best. But a gasoline car engine reaches peak performance well past that point, with a rich mixture that's wasteful and polluting. The most efficient and cleanest AFM is not the best performing in motor sport. It's entirely possible that an incomplete extraction could taste richer and stronger than an "ideal" one. An engine tuner tweaks for peak real-world performance. The Wired Gourmet tweaks for peak flavor. I don't own a refractometer or TDS meter. When I need a gimmick like that to tell me what I've got in my mouth, I'll retire :)
@@wiredgourmet I agree that the pallet is the one true arbitor of what's best but I do find EY% does agree with my taste choices almost every time I check. It allows for an external verification that your sensory decisions aren't drifting due to pallet fatigue. Anyone whose tried to seriously taste more than 5-6 wines in a single sitting can appreciate that. As to my point about under extraction and preperation preferences in cafes..... well, I think the number of good espressos a person can expect to be served in a commercial environment worldwide speaks to that. The hit rate is going to be shockingly low for someone used to a world class home setup where each shot is prepared carefully and optimally without any consideration given to time and expense.
@@wiredgourmet I tried your method today. Seemed to work as you described but since I NEVER do pourover I think my grind was a bit coarse as I got a total time of 4:30. The coffee tasted very nice and smelled great but I still really miss the concentration of espresso. I used 25g of coffee and 300g of 205F water with about 240g in the finished cup. FWIW the Extraction Yeild was about 20% which is very good and I would expect it to go up if I dialed in a finer grind and added another minute to the brew time. The bed came out flat as you demonstrated. I used a long cocktail spoon. It may not be as cute as in a cafe but the coffee was good. If only it was stronger.
I clicked three thumbs up!! the voodoo of giving likes on YT: what most people don't know is, you can actually give more than ONE like to a video. if the content was entertaining it should be in the 5ish range if you learned something new in the 11ish range. to make the Voodoo work it must be an un-even number of clicks. even number of clicks will haunt you and your future lives, so don't do that.
Well my friend you lost me here. I'm trying to make my life easier and I found it to be just too much information. I'm sure your right but it was out of my range. Great details as always but I personally have put away the v 60 because it just was too much work to get a good cup. I've taken up the easy Kalita wave and don't regret it. Keep up the good work.
You don't have to do all of that. You can make it as simple or complex as you want, it all depends on what your end goal is and what problems you run into. This video wasn't so much a how to tutorial but the nitty gritty of how it works and all the variables that affect it. So far the simplest, most forgiving method to getting a solid cup of coffee I've come across is the Aeropress.
I don't understand what you mean by 'get away with'. The V60 is about 100x as popular as both of those combined, so it's the one I chose to explain in depth.
Sounds like you should just get the Hario Switch and most of your brew you are doing an immersion brew. Why not make it a full immersion brew, all the water and coffee all at once.
There is definitely more Voodoo than science here, but there is more than one way to make good coffee. Read "The Physics of Filter Coffee" if you want actual science.
After thinking about this video for a while I have to come back with some thoughts. My job requires me to work in a coffee shop, deli, gas station and a general store. Some days I can make hundreds of cups of coffee or sandwiches in the deli. Anyone who has worked in the food industry knows that you have to have a certain standard. The 16 to 1 standard is what is generally good for most customers. If your making hundreds of drinks you just can't make up your own rules. Also anyone who has plated food knows that presentation is half the taste. If you throw food at people they're going to feel bad about what has been presented to them. Of course coffee shops are going to do up the presentation. I make food in front of customers and know that it's show time. Showing people working in a coffee shop and making fun of people who work for a living is not fair. In college I read the book by Irving Goffman about the difference between the stage out front and what happens in the back. Well you can make fun of these people but in real life these are the people who make your food and bring you your drinks. It's not fair to judge this according to your standards. To use pictures of working men and women and laugh at them is unjust in my eyes.
He wasn't making fun of the average working person but he was lampooning the fact that a lot of these steps are treated as gospel and not to be questioned and then are blindly propagated by RUclipsrs, baristas, and coffee enthusiasts, usually to people who are new and just want to make coffee at home. There's nothing wrong with a little showmanship in the retail world and nothing wrong with picking a ratio that is a compromise between flavor and bottom line. The issue I've been having as someone new to the hobby is the unquestioning nature of "common wisdom" and standard practices. This video is for brewing at home, which has different goals and needs etc than retail.
The point is: delicious coffee can be brewed with a V60 at HOME by non-baristas, even if they are using methods that will not be profitable in retail. 1. It can be done using ratios that are outside of the “most people like it” range, 2. It can be done with less visual appeal, 3. It can be done even if the slurry is contaminated by microorganisms on bare fingers, 4. even if the slurry is contaminated by repeatedly using a spoon that was sitting on a dirty table top, 5. even if low cost equipment is used, and 6. Even if the person stands at one dripper for 6 minutes and does nothing else!
Some interesting parts of the video, though I find it hard to watch due to his insufferable, arrogant tone. I feel like he just enjoys being contrarian and thinks he knows better than experts. Also, scales are not a distraction lol. They are very important for consistency.
No idea how this crept into my feed. While there's always been some definite pseudoscience in third wave coffee, this video is hysterically arrogant and reductive. Go read astrophysicist Johnathan Gagné's book "The Physics of Filter Coffee" and get back with us, boomer.
Bienvenue mes enfants! I've been disobedient again, revising those busted old V-60 recipes everyone copies from everyone else. I've stripped out the Third Wave rituals to highlight the genuine elements of pour-over perfection, which led me to a better technique and fresh insights into the right gear as well. Enjoy!
Reading the comments and it looks like a few people got butt blasted and missed the point of the video. lol
@@spamcan9208 That seems to happen often around here :)
@@wiredgourmet let's not go down the road of viewing anyone with legit questions as the "sheep" of coffee culture that cant comprehend what you are doing. The comments I read weren't dogmatically defending anything...they had legitimate questions and were curious about your response. You, however, seemed to shy away from those comments and instead focus on the ones praising your "ways". I hope the 4th wave that you want to usher in includes open discourse. I guess it's fine to put current coffee culture under the microscope of scrutiny, but when the same is done to you it's just people being "butt blasted"
Merci beaucoup mon père ! I have a history of filtering spirits with paper cones (molita ones at first ^^), and because for that matter it gives an hawlful lot of taste, my own solution (time wasting for coffee maybe) was to infuse a numbers of these papers in a big bowl of pre-boiling hot water 3 or... 5 times, drying them before use. The paper will be more fragile unfortunately, but it works indeed on my work
While I do really like the ethos of dispelling all of the pseudo-science in a lot of pourover brewing recommendations / theory (god there's so much), I did have some questions/thoughts about some of the things you said in this video - I sincerely apologise for the length in advance 😆 I'll go in mostly chronological order:
- "There's nothing magical about 1:16": While I agree that there's no sense in just always defaulting to the same ratio for every pourover, I do think it's a good idea to mention that your ratio is definitely going to have an impact on the mechanics of your pourover - you're not going to get something tasty out of a 1:4 ratio without some serious agitation, really high temperatures (and steady), and a somehow very long contact time, and even then I'm not convinced it's going to happen in a standard V60 or other pourover dripper without modification. My own experiments are of course anecdotal, but what isn't is the relationship between TDS/extraction, and ratio. With that in case, in terms of what people usually prefer, I do usually advocate starting from 1:15 - 1:17 and adjusting (possibly outside this range) to taste, but also to make sure the mechanics of the recipe / brewing method you're using actually make brewing good coffee possible. For example, with a Tricolate brewer, you get some really interesting (and imo, tasty!) results at really high ratios - think 1:20 - 1:22 - because of the lack of bypass. Mechanics matter!
- "A scale is just a distraction": This one I vehemently oppose - using a scale, you can ensure that you use the exact same amount of water for every brew and (at least roughly) same amount of water in every pour. I know you make a point of weighing everything before the brew begins, but some of that water is going to evaporate out of your kettle as you brew, and there's no real understanding of what a "sensible amount of water" is. With experience you'd get better at guess-timating how much water for each pour, but before this experience is accrued, you could very easily over/under pour one of the pours enough to influence the mechanics of your brew, and just using a scale to match up each pour weight will lend itself to more consistent brews and far easier dialling in of grind size. A good experiment (imo a fun one! very eye-opening) is to decant the liquid in your server/carafe/cup after each pour into a different cup, and taste the results. In any case, a scale is really not a distraction and is very useful in increasing consistency - just as timing your brews and making sure you always pour at fixed intervals would help. Of course you advocate for this method to only be a starting point, but I think it's hard to really evaluate a method if it has inconsistency built-in - I'll touch on this later.
- Temperature: you advocate for choosing a water temperature which gets you a fixed slurry temperature, which I like the idea of, however you use a kettle which sits without being temperature controlled. There are two scenarios: 1) This doesn't actually matter when it comes to maintaining the target slurry temperature - in this case, everyone with temperature controlled kettles should instead leave their kettles off their bases. 2) This does matter - the slurry temperature later on will be lower in accordance with the drop in temperature of the water in the kettle. In this case temperature controlled kettles are favoured, and indeed this is what I suspect, though I have not tested this myself. Have you? Would love to hear about it!
- Agitation: at least as you've outlined, this method has decidedly inconsistent agitation. It's nigh on impossible to impart a fixed amount of agitation brew to brew in the way outlined in the video, and especially with a spoon. Fixing contact time and temperature (and the obvious, ie: how much water, how much coffee, method, brewer etc) will not fix extraction if you vary the agitation, so it becomes important to try and have some consistency if you want consistent brews, which in turn will help you adjust your recipe and other brewing variables to taste. Even some guidance with how long to stir for would help, but this isn't given in the video. A simple experiment that will illustrate this (that I'm guessing you've already done) is to brew a V60 with whichever method you like twice - no agitation the first time and increased agitation the second. Even the stream of water being poured into the slurry will impart some agitation to the brew, and so pour height, flow rate and once again the weight of each pour come into play, so adding more inconsistency by a blanket "just keep agitating" recommendation seems against progress to me, like it'd make it harder to tweak and dial in. Do you not find this / agree?
- Percolation: a number of times in this video you talk about percolation being the wrong thing to strive for, and present this method as "just paper-filtered immersion" - this just isn't true? Percolation (in pourover coffee brewing) refers to the process of the water poured in moving through the porous medium which is of course the coffee bed, and picking up solubles. This is always going to happen in a brewer like this - some immersion style extraction is happening too sure, but to say there is no percolation is to say there is no fluid moving through the coffee bed at all, which of course is happening in the video and in any V60 / pourover brew (you could come up with a pathological example, say a Hario Switch brew with the stopper engaged so you just get immersion, and then you just dump all the liquid out, but no ones doing that day in day out haha). I understand the longer percolation brews where minimal agitation a relatively full cone is used is what you're trying to stand against, and I really like the idea of using fresh solvent (water) frequently as opposed to a single pour for example (I myself use a bloom + 4 pours), but this doesn't mean percolation just isn't happening 🤣
- Fines migration: you don't talk *that* much about fines migration/management in the video, is there a reason why? I know you say to not dislodge fines from the filter paper and not excavate too deeply, but I don't know that this is enough - especially given the inconsistency with agitation. There are useful recommendations out there to manage fines and it's really quite important - especially when interpreting brew time and striving for inconsistent extraction. The fines aren't always going to sit on the filter paper, some will inevitably get to the bottom of the coffee bed and influence flow in a big way. In your brews, you seem to catch a lot of fines along the walls of the filter paper which is great, but how consistent is this given that the agitation is inconsistent,? Do you still deal with clogging issues due to fines migration? You have a pretty good grinder in the modded Specialita there, but I wager that those people attempting to start from this method using a conical burr grinder that isn't as good as the grinders in the video may have some issues - do you have any recommendations for them? You do have this adjusted method you use for the Niche where you use a faster filter, a dripper with faster flow and a lower contact time, but would this not just lead to a lower extraction of the target grind size and increase bypass a lot? Not that this is necessarily undesirable, but if the user of the method doesn't like this different profile, are they not just screwed? The Niche is also pretty decent as far as conical burr grinders go - what of someone using something like a Baratza Encore / Wilfa Svart?
- Bypass: the ridges in a V60 or on the conical drippers you showed are there to hold the filter away from the walls of the dripper (or in the case of ridged flat bottom filters, of course the filter does the job itself) - if you get a complete seal, you'll choke the flow of coffee out and get a fairly over-extracted brew (eg: think of the classic stalled Chemex). These ridges do unfortunately introduce bypass as a byproduct (I'm proud of that one 😆) - not that bypass is an inherently bad thing, but it can mask the other mechanics of a given brew, eg: if you have a brew which has some clogging starting to happen, but a lot of bypass starts happening at the same time, you can mask the effects of clogging on flow rate, but the extraction profile will still be way off. This is also why the brew you did in the metal holder took ages - there was nowhere for the water to bypass the bed, and so now fines management/prevention of clogging becomes a HUGELY important thing (and as you said, grinding coarser is not the answer, which is why I'm confused as to why you didn't touch on fines management more than you did). Just thought I'd add this as you didn't talk too much about bypass in the video, although there's tons more to be said about bypass in general.
- Dripper design: Another thing I'd just like to add - I think some more considerations on dripper material are important when it comes to choosing one you want to use - eg: if you're going for a higher slurry temperature you may want to opt for a plastic dripper sure, but also a double walled dripper such as the Stagg X/XF from Fellow is one to consider, actually keeping a higher and more stable temperature than the plastic V60.
Last question: you talk a lot about standing against the religious pseudo-science in the industry, but while a lot of these recommendations have some clear cut theory behind them, a lot also don't - are there some sources / experiments you can point to to back up some of your theory/hypotheses?
Thanks so much for making this video and reading this far if you did 😆 to better home brewing!
Great boo- (cough cough) -I mean comment. I had some of the exact same thoughts as you.
I know it’s not my place to judge intent, but at this point I feel the gourmet is just trying to be intentionally inflammatory…
The idea that pour over should be strict percolation is a made up idea based on nothing, most likely a marketing strategy made up by cafes .... whaaaat??? What is that even suppose to mean ? Is he talking against a low agitation technique? Using a scale is a distraction and to measure pours is to impress customers?? There's so many ways to prepare coffee and so many different preferences we should be open minded, not arrogant / ignorant.
lol, great comment! Additionally, he creates a narrative based on "cafe myths vs home brewing" but I don't see anything like that in real life. Most of the time I use all these fancy scales, different cones etc. in home while the coffee shops serve random batch brews haha
Congratulations gab. You win the yt comments prize for the day.
I agree on many of your points. Agree on the scale. I tried the recipe using a scale. Had the same thought as you regarding temperature control. The pours occur over a 3 minute span and theyre roughly what? 400 ml water to start with? That small amount of water will certainly cool down by a few degrees in 3 minutes. Maybe more than a few.
I happen to have a 2# bag of washed Ethiopian yerg that is just not all that great so I'm happy to be able to tinker to my heart's content without guilt.
First batch, small improvement. I was too concerned about hitting the brew time to the point that I made the grind 3 clicks finer on my jxpresso hand grinder. A very small amount of astringency crept in. I credit this video with giving me the impetus to go that much finer.
I did put my kettle back on the gas stove after pour #4. Agitation after pour 4 seemed irrelevant as the bed had achieved a very consistent and uniform feel. I'll learn as I go.
Ultimately the improvement seems to stem primarily from a finer grind and mostly from a huge change in ratio from 16 or 17 down to about 13:1. I brewed at 12 but added an ice cube (which is my wont, about 10g) and even then it was too strong. So added another spritz of filtered water.
I probably could experiment with just the ratio and see if there's much difference WITHOUT all the agitation.
Filter paper, Hario bleached untabbed, probably the defacto standard, and for good reason. And yes, Melitta unbleached is unusable. At least for brewing something that you might consume.
The coffee is marginally better but this particular roast is never going to be great. There's just so much you can do to try and massage a mediocre roast.
@@ggusta1 Thanks for this! Always great to experiment and talk about it! The woes of massaging a mediocre roast to get to the best possible cup are definitely relatable 🤣
I've been thinking about the possible change in the importance of agitation as a brew continues for a while actually - my current guesses (not tested) are that it depends a lot on pour structure and dripper geometry, but I don't really wanna go further because they're all very shaky guesses based on anecdotal evidence. I should say I do advocate for agitation to be as carefully controlled and consistent as possible throughout the brew, whether it's low and in short bursts, high and constant etc.
Honestly my real aversion to such a low ratio comes from considerations of efficiency and cost - if I can make my brewing process more efficient in extracting favourable solubles from the grounds, I can use a higher ratio of water:coffee and my bag lasts longer. If I use a lower ratio but get the same average extraction % / TDS, I feel cheated out of extra coffee haha. I may get a different extraction *profile* , but I'm not entirely convinced it's impossible to reach such a profile with the higher ratio by replicating the change in brewing mechanics that happens when you make your coffee bed that much larger. Even if that proves hard, I definitely ask myself: is this difference in *profile* worth the extra money? Is it actually that big of a taste difference at all?
As far as conical filters go, I'm definitely another huge fan of the Hario bleached untabbed for the speed of flow and the filtration.
It's like a miracle!
I have had little success with other popular V60 techniques, but I'm now enjoying consistently tasty coffee using the Voodoo. One thing that stands out is stirring. Normally stirring is frowned upon, but I think it is the key to the quality of coffee produced using the Voodoo. Stirring produces consistent extractions. Sometimes I forget to grab a spoon before I start, but missing the first stir doesn’t degrade the result.
The Voodoo is easily scalable with small grind adjustments. I have been brewing with a 12 to 1 ratio using 15, 20 or 25 grams of coffee. The math is easy, multiply the coffee weight by 2 to calculate the amount of water added during each pour. The total amount of water is simply 7 times that. Easy math even first thing in the morning. The 30 second intervals are also easy to deal with before my first cup. Pour x grams of coffee every 30 seconds. No calculator or chart needed. Brilliant!
This method seems (so far) to be very tolerant of different coffees.
I use a scale under my coffee cup. It helps to limit over-pours. In time I think the scale will be unnecessary, however, it also serves as my timer.
Cheers to The Wired Gourmet!
There's so much knowledge packed in this video. It definitely deserves more views. Thanks for the great content!
Oh god thomas you are the WIZZARD OF OZ of coffee.... as a hobbyists and a barista I have done filter coffee on the regular for years. Had many great recipes and delved into the more asian recipes as of late which are the type that demands that one "does not disturb" the coffeebed. It still has it's place in my opinion as it still pulls a very particular style cup/profile that could be very enjoyable ( I would describe it just as a different style) but your V60 method is the most consistent method for the least amout of error I have had in a long time. It reminds me of how the chemex tastes which is a good thing and it motivated me to get a better grinder haha!
I have by the way mostly started using the wave papers for my chemex now and it tastes amazing!!
Thanks! One does one's best :)
Hi I'm currently diving into v60.. then this video came up... Have you checked the single pour technique from tales coffee ? I mean the technique also breaking some 'rules'.. would like some insight from your perspective. :D
Not yet, but give them both a go and let us know which one you prefer :)
I bought a v60 glass brewing kit today. When I start using it I will implement your technique and follow your tips and hints. I must say though, after looking at over a dozen videos on the v60 and reading the comments in those videos including this one, many people seem to be overly sensitive regarding this brew method and split hairs like there’s no tomorrow with a whiff of snobbery. In the movie The Perfect Date, one of the side characters who has an obsession with coffee rambles on about the distinction of pour over coffee which reminded me of the comments throughout all the videos online. There’s even a thread where chemistry students start going into the chemistry of pour over with technical jargon. This video cuts through all that nonsense and is beneficial to help anyone brew a nice tasting pour over.
Thanks for that. One does one's best. Enjoy the v60.
I am recently new to the V60 brewing and found your video quite interesting. What was not mentioned (afaik) was that this is a 2-cup V-60. I have a 1-cup V-60 so when I tried your measurements (35g grinds, etc) it nearly overflowed, reaching close to the rim which would not allow for water to be added. So I dumped out enough to have about 20g grinds. Can you comment on this and what optimal grams of coffee should be used in 1-cup V-60? My Vario white filters do not show a "speed" of paper, they are made in Japan and the English doesn't mention a rating for water steeping through it. My first try at a 5 min brew with my 20g coffee seems a bit bitter to me which I would expect for that long a brew. I use a Baratza Encore burr grinder setting of 12 which is the same setting I use for Aeropress and the Moka pot. Even a Chemex doesn't brew for that length of time. Please comment.
So with an aeropress I can have the positives of immersion and filtration, can grind finer/have more fines and just control the brew time however I want?
Absolutely. It's really flexible too, just smaller capacity :)
I've been experimenting with V60 for a while now and all I can say is that if I want a consistently good cup of coffee, I go for an Aeropress with a very long immersion time.
This is a really great video. Just love the way you challenged all the rules. At first, it seemed very complex, but as you kept explaining, I understand what parameters are more important. Looking forward to mastering your voodoo method. Thank you for an amazing video.
Thanks for the kind words. Glad it helped :)
As a non-native English speaker I've only come across "percolation" in terms of coffee brewing. But I'm confused about your dismissal of it. My understanding is that percolation is as opposed to immersion. One being where the water flows through the coffee grounds (some water being in contact with the coffee some of the time) and one being where the water sits with the grounds for the entire brew (all of the water in contact with the grounds for all of the time). Isn't a pour over by that definition percolation?
There isn't really an accurate label for the Voodoo method. I call it paper-filtered immersion, but that's not strictly correct either. The important point is that it's not a "strict" percolation method; you have a lot of freedom to adapt it and refine it for your own preferences. It's chiefly about flexibility.
My goodness! I don't know where you get your ideas from, but I think you're on to something. I have unknowingly gravitated towards pouring 5-6 pours every 30 seconds and spinning after every pour but I think your method is something I need to look into. Thank you once again for an amazing video and really looking forward to the 9Barista review. Also did you notice that James Hoffman took inspiration from your moka pot voodoo?
Thanks. Try it; I think you'll like it. Circle back and let us know how it went :)
Would love to see your hario switch technique
I will definitely consider exploring it :)
One of the most underrated channels ever! How does this channel have less than 10K subscribers????
RUclips is determined to keep it a secret :)
Finally someone who makes sense! Mechanically sound indeed. I bet that this technique and video will skyrocket in popularity.
Not on this channel, lol :) But thanks for the thought :)
This method really makes a huge difference to the taste of my coffee and for the better! Was going to try some of those cotton filters but Amazon sold out here in the UK. Can you do a Kalita Wave method sometime in the future - cheers great channel
PS - I have exactly the same cheap scales and they’ve been great , better than my Hario ones that just went weird after a couple of years
10 bucks or 300: I bet they all use the same cheap Chinese-made loadcells :)
So if it get this correctly : approx. 6 or so equal-ish pours every 30 secs. Somewhat long brew time of 4 to 6 minutes with a spoon stir after every pour. Frequent re-seat of the filter. Short 10:1 ratio and fine pour over grind ? I don't get the percolation bashing. Isin't a conical / flat bed dripper a percolation device ??
Thank you for that :)
What an impressive butchery of punctuation.
Hi!
If I wanted to make just a cup, how would I tweak the recipe? Same ratio and same target time?
Good question. I would say use any ratio you like, but shoot for a 2-3 min brew time. Reason is, with so little water passing through, you'd have to grind super fine to slow it that much, and the flavor would likely suffer. If it tastes harsh, I would grind coarser still. 1.5 mins would not be insanely fast for a single cup.
Won't be trying this method but I have a feeling all the different types of beans you'd use will share similar taste profiles.
I kinda want to see someone make immersion coffee using a beaker and stir bar for the full brew time, then quickly decant it into a vacuum filtration funnel to pull it through a fine paper filter in the shortest possible time while removing all of the fines. I suspect that the result will be quite similar to a siphon pot or vacuum pot coffee, since the mechanism is similar, but you'd get more control over the brew temperature and amount of agitation. I just want to see how a chemist would engineer a brew.
You should absolutely be challenging received wisdom wherever you find it. I would say though that most guys online are not commercially driven, they are inquisition driven. Coffee nerds generally like to know why stuff works, not just that it does, and that includes many specialty baristas.
I didn't mean to imply that they're motivated by commercial interests; I meant that the conventional wisdom they've absorbed comes from an industry dominated by commercial, rather than gastronomic, concerns.
Excited to hear your take on the 9barista. That thing is a super cool piece of engineering at the very least.
Have you heard of the Nomad espresso machine? Brian Quan and Lance Hedrick put up videos on it. I'm curious to hear how you think it stacks up against the Robot, since you're such a big advocate of the Robot. I picked one up over the Robot because it was quite a bit cheaper and has some interesting possibilities due to a large internal reservoir. I enjoy it a lot, but I do always wonder about what could have been. Haha.
Working on the 9bar now; so far I like the flavor a lot.
Can this be adapted for 15 g of coffee or is that too little?
Yes, with a slow paper and fine grind, you should be able to hit 3 mins, maybe 3.5. That said, I prefer the Aeropress for doses under 20g :)
Similar along the lines, how does one make a 500ml one? Grind less fine. 600 ml water to 50g coffee?
How does this technique taste vs Hoffmann one? I will try tomorrow. Lol
@@eddyindia7007 Those are the right measures for my preferred ratio. You might be able to grind finer than usual and still keep the brew around 5 - 6 mins total. If your grinder makes a lot of fines, you'll probably want a faster brew, 4 to 4.5 mins, say. Well, Voodoo isn't really a recipe; it's a method that you can tweak and adapt to just about any recipe, ratio, flavor profile, etc. It's all about flexibility :)
@@wiredgourmet Can I ask why Aeropress instead of V60 for smaller doses? Could you share an Aeropress recipe for 200-250ml of drink?
If it tastes good it is good, that's a fact. Not only is it a fact, but also the guiding principle behind all the brewing guidelines at all the halfway decent cafes I've worked at. I'm always for throwing out the rulebook. But most baristas are just people who like coffee, making it as good as they know how. Besides, a longer brew ratio saves a cafe jack squat. The only real profit pressure on brew methods in cafes is how much active barista time is required... I'm looking at you, mod bar automatic pourovers
Hear, hear.
I actually find 1 to 16 ratio to be a sweet spot. However much coffee I’m brewing I use x18 water, which gets about x16 out. I found that ratio to be generally good for me before I knew it was the “standard”. This does remind me though that I should experiment with ratio more often just to further explore my coffees
I definitely encourage experimenting, but personal taste is always the final judge :)
Thomas, thank you! It would be handy to have written steps, so I'm sharing my notes:
35 g coffee
420 g water 96°C
(This is 1 to 12 ratio as I count)
Make a little depression
Every 30 seconds pour sensible amount of water and stir gently with narrow spoon
During first minute break any dry coffee clumps so all coffee is in contact with water
Re-seat filter before 3rd pour at 1 minute (an optional re-seat toward the end)
Overall brew time is around 5 minutes.
Thanks man. That's thoughtful :)
I’m using a Melitta type dripper. Do you have any suggestions about adapting your technique to it?
Voodoo is all about being flexible and adaptable. If you're using Melitta papers, I would be careful about re-seating and even stirring; the seams are not well made. Cafec makes good ones with that shape, but I don't know who sells them. For a standard 4-cup dripper, you can look for a 4-6 min brew depending on your taste, and for the small ones, 2-3 mins. I think you can get away with a pretty fine grind using their papers, IIRC, but I really don't like the taste. I would look for sturdier, cleaner-tasting aftermarket ones. Good luck.
Still some benefit to using longer ratios at home. Those light specialty beans don’t come cheap. 😂 I will be playing with your method for the coming week. I can only hope it is as good as the moka pot tutorial.
Circle back and let us know :)
I absolutely love your refreshing style of videos. It would be very interesting to see some more videos for espresso (especially the cafelat robot!).
Thanks very much. I will be highlighting the Robot in the 9barista video coming soon :)
You are sharper than my mother in law. I like it 🤩 keep it coming dad
Holy moly ! I don't have words to describe the result! I was really scared of how it would turn out . I imagined it would be bitter. Although I'm using Melitta papers and soon will change to a cloth filter. Many thanks, my dear Wired . You have awaken me from my 1:16 slumber
Welcome to the community :)
Any experience with the v60 switch?
Great for brewing coffee at home. It’s fun and the coffee is delicious
I haven't tried it, chiefly because I do immersion, only with a paper filter :)
I finally got around to trying this today - it was a very enjoyable cup of coffee and I'm sure it will only get better with some tweaks.
By all means play around. It's a technique, not a recipe :)
@@wiredgourmet I certainly will! What I meant to say is I'm sure the coffee will only get better once I've mastered dialing in for this technique.
I am curious what range grind setting you are using for the Niche Zero, since it calibrates so reliably. I understand there will be variation depending on the bean, but do you have a starting point/range before tweaking the grind size on the Niche?
Mine works for pourover between 35 and 40. Of course YMMV depending on how you calibrated it, and what coffee you're using, but that's a reasonable range to start dialing in.
@@wiredgourmet Thank you, that is the range I have been working with. I've been using lighter roasted coffees which have been producing mountains of fines causing my pour overs to stall, especially large batch (900 ml) brews. I just ordered some medium to darker roasts to isolate the roasting process from my particular coffee supplier.
@@emilycarpenter5965 It will be a challenge making such large batches using the Zero, but darker roasting should allow you to grind coarse enough for flow and still get good flavor. Good luck :)
Yes Cafec's V60 Flower is fast I have one with 01 size
Thanks. I'll be testing it for the followup to this video.
Great video, thank you so much! I have a question - do you think a gooseneck/temp controlled kettle are actually noticable upgrades for v60 style brews?
Yes, absolutely. It keeps the water hot, and is easy to pour without splashing.
@@wiredgourmet thank you so much for the reply! If I may suggest a topic for a video where your approach is sorely needed - water for coffee.
There is so much contradicting information and complexity, and so little feasible and substantiated recommendations.
@@omerhadari2208 I did one a while back: ruclips.net/video/1hLmcIHK6qk/видео.html
I will try this and I love the idea of striving for pure taste improvements rather than optimising the economics. However, I would most definitely weigh the individual pours to increase repeatability. Also, since I boil more water than I actually need to have a higher temperature consistency, I would need to weigh my brew. Before having tasted the resulting brew, I would suspect that this yields a very well to over extracted brew with little sourness since your recipe requires me to grind finer, agitate more, and brew longer than what I would do with my current technique. If you look primarily for richness in coffee, this might be the perfect recipe then. If you like the vibrancy of fruit and sourness then a third wave recipe might be better suited. However, I‘m curious to see if my prediction will actually come true.
Circle back and let us know how it goes. Honestly, tho, I think you'll find that just the timing as I demonstrated will give you excellent repeatability. Have fun :)
Finally another voodoo video, thank you spending your time making this video
Thanks. I will be doing more :)
Excellent video
Thank you :)
Tried. Very strong.
Will be having small cups.
It's a technique, not a recipe. Just adjust the ratio to whatever you prefer :)
How do you compare the taste from your v60 and the diluted aeropress also from your technique? For me I don't get better taste from hand pour and it is more work... Curious about what you think. Thank!
I would say the V60 is a bit cleaner on the palate, and the Aero more rich and textured. Both are great :)
@@wiredgourmet thanks for the reply, that makes sense as aero has a bit more pressure. Cheers coffee lover! :)
I will absolutely give this method a try this weekend. You have at least earned that much, and also my trust that it will actually improve my V60.
Good :) Circle back and let us know how it went.
@@wiredgourmet My first try used the last of a fairly dark roasted bean that I've been using up, tastes OK but a little over roasted to my taste. I adjusted my grind blindly but aggressively smaller on my 1zpresso JX Pro, roughly halfway between old V60 and somewhat coarse espresso. Made a few mistakes brewing but nothing horrible, but landed at a 4 minute brew time with Hario bagged white filters that came with my V60 rig. The result was a much richer, bolder cup of coffee, that I frankly didn't love, but I blame the beans for this one. I clearly see what this method aims for, and I approve. Time to finish this cup and head to the roaster for a fresh bag.
wow.. what a GOAT.. thank you for saving me tons of money and time wasted down the rabitt hole
You cite the fact that many coffee RUclipsrs are former cafe baristas as the reason why they promote longer ratios. This doesn’t stand up when you consider that most of them now sell their own roasted coffee. Surely if you were to be cynical, their vested interest would be in promoting much shorter ratios, and thus flogging more of their product?
I enjoy your content - you clearly have a great deal of mechanical knowledge and I’ve found many of your grinder / espresso machine / gadget videos insightful and helpful. I also like the fact that you’re not afraid to go against the grain in the pursuit of debunking perceived mistruths.
However, you can at times be binary in your opinions and, plainly, I don’t agree with a lot of the points you make here.
This is a fantastic approach to pour over. My usual recipe is Comandante setting of 18 for 20g/300ml coffee /water ratio. The voodoo methods fit perfectly. I don't typically stir quite so much so this was a change. The result using glass V60 with Hario papers was very rich and tasty and delicious.
Glad it went well. See, the thing that makes TWG unique is, my stuff actually works :)
@@wiredgourmet I thought the stirring would cause erratic flow but it does not. I only measure the water flow and it is very smooth. Hit my target exactly at average 1.5ml/sec for 3.0 minute brew. Your examples use 5 minute much longer. Is there anything special about 5 minutes. From your. Video, I presume that if i want to try 5 minute brew, i should use slow filter and not just grind ever finer. Currently use Hario white filters.
@@bob2771 There's nothing special about 5 mins, I just like a little bite on the palate. You're right, best not to simply grind finer; you can get harshness that way. A slower paper or a slower rig, maybe a hair finer grind, that sort of approach, to sneak up on the flavor you want. I've tried to make V60 Voodoo adaptable and tweakable for just about everyone :)
I’m not a V60 drinker but I certainly enjoyed the video and your explanation for your approach. I wonder if you’d be keen on sharing your way of brewing espresso? Sorry if you’ve published one already.
I hav a couple of espresso vids, and more in the pipeline
YES! Perfect timing, I recently bought a V60 and have been getting a feel for it. As I used it I began to suspect a lot of the "common wisdom" was regurgitated bullshit. For instance, I didn't think the usual rinse was transferring enough heat energy from the water to the porcelain to keep it from being a heat sink. I actually preheat mine in the toaster oven and when I get a chance I'm going to test the various methods with a thermocouple.
I'm really enjoying your cut through the crap, nothing is sacred, and results driven voodoo series.
I haven't been doing this long and it's shocking to watch people with years of experience blindly perform steps that I have identified as dubious. I feel vindicated watching this video lol.
Can't wait to try out what I've learned and I'm excited for the upcoming 9barista video!
Welcome back :)
I've noticed out of trial and error that my pour overs were better when I used the glass Hario with their paper filters with a grinder primarily made for espresso. Never understood why was that, thanks for the explanation!
My pleasure :)
Thankz 4 d sharing
what if we use coffee which has faster draw down time (new process style coffees generally like that or we can use a little bit old coffee), how can we arrange 4-6 minutes time with that kind of beans? Is it ok to reduce time to 3 mins?
Ironically, the kind of coffee you're talking about often tends to be high-altitude, dense, hard and resists extraction, so finer grinding and slower brewing helps with flavor. Maybe try a slower filter paper, finer grinding (within reason), and maybe brew larger batches using more coffee and more water, to increase contact time.
Interesting take on v60 but I don't understand why you recommend pulse pouring? Why not just pour all your liquid in the v60 and stir vigorously before allowing to drain? Surely that would achieve a faster brew with a similar level of extraction?
Great question. Recall what I said about your solvent getting saturated or loaded. A pulsed pour exposes the coffee to a progressively less loaded solvent which definitely yields a broader range of flavors than say French press or Clever. I will be going into this in depth in a followup video.
I'm exhausted, need a coffee... but it is 7:18pm Mañana 🤷🏻♂️
I know, right? And decaf just doesn't cut it :)
why you even bother to use gooseneck kettle
It's enclosed, so it keeps the water hot enough for 3 mins; it pours smoothly without splashing, and I like how it looks and feels in my hand. Good enough reasons, I think :)
My first words after my first sip when I tried this method….OH MY GOSH!!!! Bravo and thanks for your no BS approach. I happened to get a 4:50 brew time on my first try which was cool. The only thing I really don’t like is the 1:10 ratio, just in the sense that it’d make me go through my coffee a lot faster, but man this flavor might be worth it….
Excellent. Circle back and let us know how it works out :)
Watching the water just sit there cooling off is the only thing that upset me, but I'm assuming that was just for the shot.. since coffee doesn't really brew when the water you're using cools off..
You would think so, but water is a special substance with a specific heat higher than any other common substance. (You have to add a lot of energy to heat it, and remove a lot to cool it.) So, throughout the 3 mins it takes to use it, it stays very close to the starting temp if you use an insulating pad and an enclosed vessel, as shown. Counterintuitive, but there it is :)
I'm all for new techniques and for the sharing of knowledge in the pursuit of coffee greatness, but respectfully I think you missed the landing here. You're trying to call out coffee culture for being pseudoscientific and pretentious, which I always support, but you've somehow managed to come off as at least equally prescriptive and pseudoscientific. You're just picking your own set of variables that "matter" but providing little actual evidence that it's any better. You really think a specialty coffee shop, who's main aim is to create an amazing cup of coffee and experience for it's guests, is using a 1:16 or whatever ratio and careful, easily repeatable and measured technique, is doing so to pinch pennies? Nah man..
This comment. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Can you review Hario Mugen? Awesome video.
Thanks, I will look into it.
so this method should win brewers championship?
He doesn't interest in coffee or industry cliches. So this method could never win the WBC. But his point is to make the home users, who don't have - mostly - professional water sources, equipment, etc., can get the most out of coffee.
Nice
Your grounds look waaaay finer than any other v60 videos I’ve ever seen (or any brews I have ever made). I usually find it gets a little bitter, why do you think it tastes good when you do it?
Some people just prefer more bitter coffees.
@@chris9650 bitterness is moreso from overextraction. Using his mokapot technique for example, the coffee that results is sweet, creamy, and not at all bitter, but extremely strong. I had to swap from the Community Special Dark I was using to a medium-light roast, since the dark was just too intense.
I also have a cheap espresso machine with a 15 bar pump. When it channels, some of the puck gets overextracted, and the result is bitterness.
His entire technique here is to ensure that nothing is over or underextracted, so I have no doubt he avoids this problem.
Yes, finer grinding will show more bitterness, but also more sweetness and body. Coarse grinding leans toward light and acidic brews. But the coffee itself has a lot of influence on that. It's all on a sliding scale.
I'm so seriously listening to this V60 lecture.... so good... but then..... Who's your Daddy??? .....🤣🤣🤣 I can't stop laughing.....
So i tried this today and i ground to fine leading to a brew more around 6 mins and a very bad taste.
Do you have any recommendations for the dialing in process?
Happy to help, but I need more to go on than bad taste. Bad how?
@@wiredgourmet way over extracted, a lot of harsh notes. I guess it is due to the too finely ground coffee.
@@akuyara4420 Is your grinder producing a lot of fines? You can try grinding coarser, or lowering your slurry temp a bit, or speeding up the brew. Or all three :)
Nice video! I feel like people who carry these gastro-centric beliefs tend to roast at home. Having the bean to cup experience come from your own work really brings flavor and enjoyment to the front, rather than equipment!
Busted! I do roast all of my coffee at home :) I even have an old video about it. Glad I'm not alone.
This is a real channel for real people...and it feels 100% USA made. Trump´s miracle, the music, the accent, the exagerated number of tools and products tested...I love it.
10/10 this guy is Like a Thorn in the eye of the Coffee industry
And couldn't be prouder :)
@@wiredgourmet The coffee industry manages to exceed the wine industry in its hubris and pseudo scientific marketing. And that is hard to do. Just don't drink a coffee for a year and I assure you that your first sip of coffee will taste like drinking bonfire. It is how addiction messes with your taste value system.
@@TomJones-tx7pb I absolutely agree; the marketing BS here is even worse than fine wine. And I will be getting to that in future vids :)
Percolation style brewing actually predates third wave coffee by decades. Japan is actually where this tradition originates. That’s why all the brewing equipment we use is from there. I’d agree with your comments on agitation to an extent but there are times where you might want to be gentle. A lot of these techniques were meant to mitigate negative flavors in darkly roasted and poor quality specialty coffees. I’ve actually been thinking a lot about the preciousness that we treat coffee. It’s off-putting to a lot of people, seen as pretentiousness. Keep in mind that there is no “ordinary” coffee. Every single bean that goes into a cup is touched multiple times by human hands. Picking, sorting, packaging, shipping, brewing. It’s not so unusual that there should be a sense of ceremony around this precious substance. If coffee is either science or religion, I choose religion. 🙌🏻☕️
Great content as always. I do see your point about the market-driven forces at play; I also think a decent amount of the well-meaning platitudes shared just come from thinking "superficially" without tying to the physics. Having a more fundamentals-based approach is what I like so much about your explainers, because they give us mental tools to reason about our own needs & setup. Same for Jonathan Gagné's content and Physics of Filter Coffee book, and to a large extent Hoffmann, though he tailors for a broad audience. Anyhow, thanks. Use your temperature-surfing moka pot approach daily. If I could request some more Voodoo, would love to see your thoughts around the Clever brewer. I've adopted a Clever style that resonates with your themes in this video: water-first immersion technique with 1/2-2/3 initial dose (combined bloom + agitation + steep) for about a minute only, and then start the drain and apply a "rinse" with the remaining 3rd in a second percolation phase on top of the pitcher. You get the kinetics of capturing the preferrable fast-dissolving compounds while gaining a little more simplicity than some of the fussiness that V60 techniques require. I try to add the rinse water before the initial batch fully drains, so that the residual pool absorbs the splashes from my kettle and doesn't disturb the fines.
Thanks for your kind words. Enough WG viewers have asked about the Clever that I'm finally prepared to do a video about it. Not sure when, but it's on the list :)
@@wiredgourmet fantastic!
Sir, too much info in one video 😆 thank you
I don't think the 4th wave of coffee will be televised so it's better to learn as many voodoos as we can.
Thanks for the insights, especially on the variables that aren't mentioned as much as they deserve.
Glad you liked it :)
I thought it was april for a sec
More like late December :)
Damn man, you are really wierd indeed. So what about eureka oro single dose grinder, you stil own it? You said you were going to send it back to factory, and wait for the updated one to rewiev again.
I sent it back to Eureka at their request. They said they wanted to examine it in case it was defective. They will send me a SD 2.0 when they're available, and I will post an update about it.
What I gathered from this:
1) I brewed Chemex like this for years without giving it much thought. Fill to rim, stir, watch for the water level to fall below the bed, repeat. Even a separate blooming stage struck me as a bit of malarkey. My intuition was what mattered (if the slurry was mixed) was grounds surface area × time immersed, and your take seems to confirm this.
Wish I had a burr grinder for those years, to better tune in the drawdown time. That has been rectified.
2) If the extraction ideal comes down to immersion (with the right ratio/grind size/temperature), then the Aeropress seems a better option than pour over. Swirling a few times is less fuss than stirring, cleanup is easier, less paper is required. I suspect we see single-serving pour-over at cafés precisely because the equipment is more aesthetic than the Aeropress, and pour over offers more opportunity for theatrics.
3) I have a timer integrated into my scale, its rechargeable, and its already out to weigh grounds. And its a bit more convenient than precisely measuring the water going into the gooseneck kettle. So no great loss using it through the whole process to measure total water in. That said some of the convoluted recipes I've seen (eg 60:40) always struck me as superstitious bulls**t. I think you're spot on that the most important target should be total time the grinds are exposed to water.
I don't know where the idea that coffee places do something to "impress" consuments comes from. A lot of times you just go to your table after order and they call you back when it's finished. Most of the people are not interested in standing still for 5 minutes and watching somebody make coffee.
Also I don't agree on the thesis that there are some "rules set in stone" that people blindly follow. I have seen a lot of recipies and each one is different with/without agitation, one pour or multiple pours etc. Same with ratio: 60g/l is referred as a starting point to be adjusted and a lot of roasters suggest different ratio on their sites. Even the idea to use mostly immersion is not new, since there are devices like clever dripper/hario switch which do exactly that (and one could argue that will achive the promise of this recipie with more simplicity)
Filter coffee has always seemed like a dissapointment for someone use to great espresso. Maybe some of your ideas could change that?
You can get richness and intensity by tweaking your ratio and grinding fine enough. It is different, though.
@@wiredgourmet Well 25g of coffee vs 15-16g of coffee per 250g of water SHOULD increase the intensity of the final output. I have a Monolith Flat grinder so that shouldn't be a limitation.
Thanks to the overwhelming chorus of V60 recipes I'd never used common sense and pushed it as far as 10:1. Plus my espresso is SO good it's hard to get excited about anything else.
Coming from a few decades of serious wine tasting I agree that the world of coffee flavours seems rather simple and underwhelming. Bringing a gourmet ethos/palette to bear on it may help but I doubt most of the inked up mob can be deprogrammed at this point.
How do your brews measure on a Refractometer? I think that's a major reason professional Baristas think that pour overs are better. Their espresso is just so underextracted/badly roasted that they think something much weaker but at least comparatively more fully extracted is preferable.
@@chrissweet391 It's natural for people to pursue stoichiometric efficiency. Intuitively, we think it should be the best. But a gasoline car engine reaches peak performance well past that point, with a rich mixture that's wasteful and polluting. The most efficient and cleanest AFM is not the best performing in motor sport. It's entirely possible that an incomplete extraction could taste richer and stronger than an "ideal" one. An engine tuner tweaks for peak real-world performance. The Wired Gourmet tweaks for peak flavor.
I don't own a refractometer or TDS meter. When I need a gimmick like that to tell me what I've got in my mouth, I'll retire :)
@@wiredgourmet I agree that the pallet is the one true arbitor of what's best but I do find EY% does agree with my taste choices almost every time I check. It allows for an external verification that your sensory decisions aren't drifting due to pallet fatigue. Anyone whose tried to seriously taste more than 5-6 wines in a single sitting can appreciate that.
As to my point about under extraction and preperation preferences in cafes..... well, I think the number of good espressos a person can expect to be served in a commercial environment worldwide speaks to that. The hit rate is going to be shockingly low for someone used to a world class home setup where each shot is prepared carefully and optimally without any consideration given to time and expense.
@@wiredgourmet I tried your method today. Seemed to work as you described but since I NEVER do pourover I think my grind was a bit coarse as I got a total time of 4:30. The coffee tasted very nice and smelled great but I still really miss the concentration of espresso. I used 25g of coffee and 300g of 205F water with about 240g in the finished cup. FWIW the Extraction Yeild was about 20% which is very good and I would expect it to go up if I dialed in a finer grind and added another minute to the brew time. The bed came out flat as you demonstrated. I used a long cocktail spoon. It may not be as cute as in a cafe but the coffee was good. If only it was stronger.
I clicked three thumbs up!!
the voodoo of giving likes on YT:
what most people don't know is, you can actually give more than ONE like to a video.
if the content was entertaining it should be in the 5ish range if you learned something new in the 11ish range.
to make the Voodoo work it must be an un-even number of clicks.
even number of clicks will haunt you and your future lives, so don't do that.
Appreciate the thought :)
Well my friend you lost me here. I'm trying to make my life easier and I found it to be just too much information. I'm sure your right but it was out of my range. Great details as always but I personally have put away the v 60 because it just was too much work to get a good cup. I've taken up the easy Kalita wave and don't regret it. Keep up the good work.
You don't have to do all of that. You can make it as simple or complex as you want, it all depends on what your end goal is and what problems you run into. This video wasn't so much a how to tutorial but the nitty gritty of how it works and all the variables that affect it.
So far the simplest, most forgiving method to getting a solid cup of coffee I've come across is the Aeropress.
Agree totally :)
You could've gotten away with using clever dripped or hario switch
I don't understand what you mean by 'get away with'. The V60 is about 100x as popular as both of those combined, so it's the one I chose to explain in depth.
Extensive agitation results in astringent and bitter tasting result.
That's a fact. However, there's nothing excessive in this technique.
This is one of the most hypocritical coffee videos I have ever seen
His voice would be perfect as the narator of a criminal psychology case
Thanks, I think :)
This looks like blasphemy to me. But I love it.
What do you mean “quasi” religious? Coffee IS my religion!
Actually, I know how you feel :)
Sounds like you should just get the Hario Switch and most of your brew you are doing an immersion brew. Why not make it a full immersion brew, all the water and coffee all at once.
There is definitely more Voodoo than science here, but there is more than one way to make good coffee. Read "The Physics of Filter Coffee" if you want actual science.
After thinking about this video for a while I have to come back with some thoughts. My job requires me to work in a coffee shop, deli, gas station and a general store. Some days I can make hundreds of cups of coffee or sandwiches in the deli. Anyone who has worked in the food industry knows that you have to have a certain standard. The 16 to 1 standard is what is generally good for most customers. If your making hundreds of drinks you just can't make up your own rules. Also anyone who has plated food knows that presentation is half the taste. If you throw food at people they're going to feel bad about what has been presented to them. Of course coffee shops are going to do up the presentation. I make food in front of customers and know that it's show time. Showing people working in a coffee shop and making fun of people who work for a living is not fair. In college I read the book by Irving Goffman about the difference between the stage out front and what happens in the back. Well you can make fun of these people but in real life these are the people who make your food and bring you your drinks. It's not fair to judge this according to your standards. To use pictures of working men and women and laugh at them is unjust in my eyes.
He wasn't making fun of the average working person but he was lampooning the fact that a lot of these steps are treated as gospel and not to be questioned and then are blindly propagated by RUclipsrs, baristas, and coffee enthusiasts, usually to people who are new and just want to make coffee at home. There's nothing wrong with a little showmanship in the retail world and nothing wrong with picking a ratio that is a compromise between flavor and bottom line.
The issue I've been having as someone new to the hobby is the unquestioning nature of "common wisdom" and standard practices.
This video is for brewing at home, which has different goals and needs etc than retail.
The point is: delicious coffee can be brewed with a V60 at HOME by non-baristas, even if they are using methods that will not be profitable in retail.
1. It can be done using ratios that are outside of the “most people like it” range,
2. It can be done with less visual appeal,
3. It can be done even if the slurry is contaminated by microorganisms on bare fingers,
4. even if the slurry is contaminated by repeatedly using a spoon that was sitting on a dirty table top,
5. even if low cost equipment is used, and
6. Even if the person stands at one dripper for 6 minutes and does nothing else!
This :)
Exactly :)
You are truly the AvE of coffee
Who said the 1:16 ratio, is magical? I didn't. It's simply a guide. You may up or down, to suit your taste. 😂
yeah that's what he said
coffee is religion...
And a good one, too :)
Some interesting parts of the video, though I find it hard to watch due to his insufferable, arrogant tone. I feel like he just enjoys being contrarian and thinks he knows better than experts. Also, scales are not a distraction lol. They are very important for consistency.
No idea how this crept into my feed. While there's always been some definite pseudoscience in third wave coffee, this video is hysterically arrogant and reductive. Go read astrophysicist Johnathan Gagné's book "The Physics of Filter Coffee" and get back with us, boomer.