Aikido Ground Game: Aikido vs. BJJ
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- Опубликовано: 29 авг 2020
- Aikido ground game What is Aikido's ground game and how does it stack up against BJJ? In this video we will talk about Aikido's ground game and why it looks so different than modern ground grappling. Aikido vs. Bjj has been an often questioned topic and today we'll cover why the techniques of Aikido are different than the techniques of Aikido.
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One of the first Aikido instructors who practical and brutally honest about the art and the importance of cross training other art forms. The traditionalists must hate you lol.
They do
@@ChuShinTani sorry to here that. We discuss your videos at my Aiki-kai dojo and you get a lot of positive comments and not a single negative comment. Noting one of our 'students' (who's actually a national Judo coach) was almost stabbed from behind by someone in a night club and he did Tsuki Kotegeashi without thinking and pinned the guy to the ground, gently removed the knife and held him until the police arrived. He came back and said 'This works' and told all his Judo students to try Aikido.
Not all tought... 🤌👌
Great to see an instructor who is honest about his martial art's strengths and weaknesses
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it?
@@ChuShinTani definitely enjoyed it. I have my opinions about aikido's effectiveness but you address my biggest issue which is training against a resisting opponent. Most aikido schools never do this. I am a firm believer that you fight how you train. If you dont train to fight, you're setting yourself up for failure.
Any other Gracie jiu-jitsu students shouting at the screen "Trap and Roll!" during top mount? 🤣
Nice video bro, as a Brazilian and BJJ practitioner i have to concede that arm pin is more effective for a chaotic situation, if the most of aikido instructors had this mentality, certainly i would practice Aikido too.
Keep the good work.
I have very limited bjj knowledge but I can handle myself to know just how much I don't know when I'm rolling, my experience probably doesn't match yours. I'm just thinking if the arm pin is better, does it stand to reason the time spent in either discipline to be competent enough to use it would be a hell of a lot more beneficial in bjj than aikido? Also why not just adopt the pin into your game? it looks like a pretty decent place to go for back control🤷♂️
@@sam7811 very different styles with different philosophies. BJJ looks at the most effective means defeating an opponent, controlling an opponent. Aikido looks at the most effective means of controlling autonomy and safety in an environment. If you want to simply be most effective at directly defeating an opponent, BJJ is a great foundation.
BJJ (admittedly from my limited perspective) doesn't seem to deal with an armed opponent specifically, or with chaotic environments.
I have MMA and BJJ background, but eventually I started Aikido again... Without regrets. Aikido is really good and you can start to see similarities in the practice (when doing applied techniques, like this...). I recommend Aikido for compative practicioners too. There is techniques that will help you do BJJ techniques better and you will have some surprising techniques also to include your pocket.
THESE, THESE experiments are what really improve and evolve a martial art without damaging it. I have done these kind of exercises with my students in the past too and they work perfectly!
Tradition is kept while adaptation succeeds as well!
This channel has been my discovery of the week, thank you for the content! As an aikidoka and BJJ practitioner this absolutely blew my mind, keep it up, sensei!
By the way! I got a potential answer for O Sensei's picture doing "ground fighting" techniques. When I saw that picture, some time ago, it took my attention as I was starting my BJJ training. I searched for the technique in old books, asked my own sensei about similar techniques and we couldn't find a proper answer... Until I started to investigate old daito-ryu aiki-jujutsu books, some videos and even actual instructors. Then I reached the conclusion that the technique would probably be aiki-jujutsu's gyaku dasuki, from the nikajo group of techniques, the second level of the hiden mokuroku.
Just wanted to give a hand with a possible answer for that picture!
🙇🏻♂️🙇🏻♂️🙇🏻♂️🙇🏻♂️
You need to look at forms of Aikido. Shodokan Aikido does grappling. Tomiki was one of the top Judoka. His form transitions into Judo when the Uke and Nage are right on each other. Some of the pins are slightly different in that a knee is placed on the rotator cuff. Movement will result in a shoulder dislocation.
Reallythis guy is the best voice on aikido I’ve found. One great strength not spoken much about is against multiple opponents.
This is good stuff. Though I would add that bringing the Ikkyo pin higher up so that uke's hand is at 90º to uke's body does help prevent the roll out. Also keeping nage's knees hard into uke's ribs is also helpful in immobilising. Though some uke's are just so flexible that nothing holds them down! Great work as always 👊
yeah had the same comment!
This is an excellent treatment of appropriate application for both arts in terms of positions.
You make me want to join your dojo..
You're obviously very knowledgeable.
Truly Educational. These are super well put together and are super educational. Big thank you.
Awesome video! Thank you for teaching us.
Thanks for watching and sharing!
The sit through straight arm bar is still found in IJF Judo occasionally. Like a sit through ikkyo/waki gatame
Yes, this video is a very good comparison. Judo's Osaekomi (Pin) is a big difference from BJJ and Aikido too. There are some similarities with ikkyo in kata, because all of these arts share the same origin: Japanese Ju Jitsu. Thanks a lot. :)
Great lesson on the strategic value of the face down pin for weapons and escape. Best lesson on practical Aikido I've ever seen.
"Side control" or "knee-ride" from BJJ would likely compare much better.
no lol
Thank you for creating this experiment. I enjoyed exploring the analysis. I feel that while the points of advantage made from the Ikkyo pin are laregely hypotherical in that an individual would first need to get the "bad guy" into the Ikkyo pin in the first place---not an easy, or even likely task against a person who does not wish to be "Ikkyo'd". The mount is a much more likely position and worth further exploration--especially for Aikidoka who have no experience in functional (for self-defense) arts. In this way, the Ikkyo pin advantages, while explored fairly well in this video, are entirely reliant on a succesful Ikkyo being performed along with the pin, which would be extremely unlikely. Still, I am glad people are exploring non-traditional components of self-defense in Aikido.
The take down is beyond the scope of this video. However, I imagine when you are thinking of the low likelyhood of getting an ikkyo takedown you are limiting your concept to one thing- a contest between two people of similar ability. If you look outside of this context I think you'll find other situations where this pin is more likely.
What about a situation where the person pinning is significantly larger that the one being pinned- a teacher in a school where an armed student needs to be controlled... Or a law enforcement situations, or situations in hospitals involving a smaller mentally deranged person. These are small examples- but if you think only in the context of one on one situations, where a known situation is happening, involving two similar individuals (in size and skill) you are limiting your possible understanding of physical conflict by quite a bit.
But the difference is virtually nil if you're talking about an armed assailant with roughly similar ability, or multiple assailants. You want to run away at least long enough to get a weapon, period.
@@ChuShinTani Very well said.
Awesome stuff as always, thanks!
Thank you for the support!!
You have made me look into taking aikido again . I am a bjj practitioner and competitor
I have MMA and BJJ background, but eventually I started Aikido again... Without regrets. Aikido is really good and you can start to see similarities in the practice (when doing applied techniques, like this...). I recommend Aikido for compative practicioners too. There is techniques that will help you do BJJ techniques better and you will have some surprising techniques also to include your pocket.
Some very good points. Thanks for sharing the video.
Thanks for watching!
What a great way to look at these techniques and systems!
Thanks!
I especially love the super chill music over their struggle scenes; it's counterintuitive but really works.
Also, great content. 😉
@@ChuShinTani fake martial arts are great for the ego sensei 😉
I am a member of Aikikai Germany. I had learned from Asai Katsuaki Shihan about 20 years ago at a seminar, that the 5 katame wazas mean stretch the arm and shoulder of the uke and the symbol of the end of exercise only. If in a real situation, the Uke try to escape, you could do something to break his arm. For example Nikyo, with shikko one step in the direction of uke's head to break his arm, in the katame position means pulling up the uke's arm to stretch his schoulder; by ikkyo, simple change to hiji waza or rokkyo, kimura.
Asai Katsuaki Shihan 浅井 勝昭, the student of the O Sensai , one of the 7 members of Senior Council of IAF: Tada Hiroshi Shihan (Chairman), Yamada Yoshimitsu Shihan, Asai Katsuaki Shihan, Suganuma Morito Shihan, Ozaki Sho Shihan, Tony Smibert Shihan, Christian Tissier Shihan)
www.aikido-international.org/about/iaf-officials/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katsuaki_Asai
The problem with this idea is two fold, if "pinning" is our goal. If we are only holding their arm and we break their arm, as they get up, they are still up (no longer pined). If the person we are dealing with is powerful, even with a damaged arm, they are going to be a threat to us. The other side of this problem is, what if we are pinning someone we care about, do we want to have to break their arm in order to hold them down?
For the above reasons, BJJ pins are superior to Aikido pins-if breaking their arm is our only answer.
What I found in the comment section is. Ppl still argue that aikido sucks and still value it in unarmed-grappling sport competition format even after I explain them what aikido is for. They will still argue that, "Oh! You still do the comparison in demonstration way! Try full force, aikido will still sucks cause no matter what you do aikido can't handle real force." The funny stuff is, there're lot of ppl who definitely can make aikido works just reading the way he explained his experience using it and ppl still argue. In my opinion, aikido is a good stuff, but ppl don't like good stuff, isn't it? Hope more ppl who can think see your video.
Thank you!
Yeah, honestly I much prefer to see a respectful sharing of knowledge and feel like the arguing over whether it works or not is just counter-productive for both sides. Training in Tai Chi, BJJ, etc. has helped me to understand so much more than I would have if I had been close-minded. More traditional martial arts have so much wisdom, and modern sports martial arts are great at honing techniques through pressure testing. I love to see things like a Judo school having a guest instructor teach them boxing as it gives a whole new perspective.
Very fair assessment
Here's my opinion coming from a wrestling and jiu jitsu background:
You did an amazing job on this video, but one thing I would've liked to have seen in the drills is the idea of strikes, in your aikido restraints, you would have to let go of the arm (the only thing you're holding) in order to throw strikes. In mount, one or two quick elbows would get them to protect their face allowing the person mounting to be able to evade the position before the 2nd or third attacker was to show. Not to mention in a multiple attacker situation, the jiu jitsu guy would probably use knee on belly to drop some strikes rather than mount.
However, I'm being picky, it would be hours and hours of footage to go over the many scenarios and comparisons and you did an amazing job. Thanks for the video!
As Matt Easton from Schola Gladiatora always says: "Context!"
I really enjoy Matt Easton's work!
@@ChuShinTani As do I!
Great video! Back in 2000 when I was a 2nd Kyu and 17 we had a visiting 2nd Kyu from another school. After class he asked me: "If I wanted to roll", not knowing anything, I was thinking he meant "do 100 forward rolls back and forth as fast as we could" because I would do that. He said, "no, we try to throw the other one and then get them to tap". Sounded fun, he hit me with a solid Koshinage, I held grips during ukeme and threw him over me, and in the scramble I got an Ikkyo pin. I don't think that was what he had in mind, so that was all we did. Wish I had learned where he trained and learned to mix some BJJ in with Aikido. Seems like a good mix and a much more honest way to train.
incredible video. eye-opening. this needs more views. got a newfound appreciation for aikido now.
Thanks for putting this out there. I will be adding these drills and come up with my own. I value at least introducing aikidoka to other arts so they know what’s out there.
Glad it was helpful!
Great points, I really like this!
Very interesting and eye opening, things I've always thought about in regards to low blocks and foot sweeps in traditional styles as opposed to combat sports.
Well explained 😊
This is awesome brother
Good info as usual.
very mind blowing
Very clever indeed : hats off for showing "esoteric" knowledge
It would probably do a service to aikido for the practitioners of it to always have a replica weapon in hand ( safe foam of course) in order that this emphasis is ingrained through the training. Aikido could have a resurgence with this emphasis you have pointed out.
I like this guy. Great representative for his art
I like this idea. I like what you are doing. I’d argue that the techniques compared are a false equivalence, though outside the context of aikido vs bjj this was a nice way to illustrate control vs “autonomy.” I would still argue the back-mount vs aikido pin would be more honest; especially with the entrances/takedowns for both: bjj=arm drag.
Nice work. Like it.
Nice video again! 💪👺
Obviously, you have studied quite a few martial arts. What I enjoy about all of your videos is that each art has its own answers, if you will, to a given situation. So studying several arts can give you a possible solution for a given situation. I also like the way you treat each senerio from the standpoint of an average person. Not an " expert." Great videos. Thanks
Quick question here: In the Ikkyu pin if he opens her arm like 10 degrees more towards her neck, would she still be able to roll?
Thanks
She will be once she moves her arm. I understand your question, it is often shown in Aikido schools, that a person can be completely immobilized if you hold ikkyo "correctly". The problem with this concept is that if the person being pinned changes their body position (which they will do by violently wiggling around) they can then get free.
The counter argument to what I'm saying is- if done "correctly" they will damage their arm if they violently wiggle around. There are multiple problems with this counter argument- but these will become an article and not a quick response.
I would say the best answer is the one you will discover yourself, try it!
I enjoyed watching this experiment. I understand some of the differences between BJJ and Aikido philosophically, and that Aikido places an importance on autonomy and being able to disengage if necessary. Whereas in BJJ you're very committed to fighting one person and you're more or less 'interlocked' with him/her. It is my opinion though that you need to look at more than just one situation from both arts when you juxtapose and compare them. There's more BJJ pins than just the mount; there's side control, kesa gatame, north/south, knee on stomach, back mount, the crucifix... the list goes on. And by the same token, there's more Aikido pins than just the ikkyo. I believe that there is something to gain out of practicing various styles and systems and being a well-rounded martial artist. BJJ indeed is not the solution to every problem. No martial art is. They just provide you with different 'tools', and the more you hone your craft, the more effective they'll work for you. These are just my thoughts and I embrace yours.
I must say I was Pai Mei laughing at the better than BJJ part. But who's to say it wasn't practiced back then, it could of been a lost part of the art. Also Kosen Judo is known for ground grappling, however insightful video especially the knife parts. Can't help but to love the opening/outro theme.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
Very interesting video, only two questions or observations I had were 1 - Josh's mount wasn't the best but it was definitely decent as he's not a BJJ practitioner and 2 - how realistic is it to pin an opponent with a knife into an ikkyo?
Great video and channel :)
It is highly dependent upon the situation. There are absolutely situations where an ikkyo pin could occur, but it is a mistake to think that you can make it occur. An instructor of mine talks about "fishing for a technique" in a self defense situation, meaning he wouldn't necessarily go for one thing, but rather find what's there. This video simply showed ikkyo because it is one example of an aikido pin, and they needed to choose.
This is a very good insight, perspective is always something to consider when dealing with different systems. I wouldn't go as far as to say that one is right and one is wrong, but at least we can have a clue of the logic behind the delivery systems.
That's it!!
Kosan judo as well and catch wrestling is good for grappling but its very hard to find a school! And your right there’s no reason to feel like you have to stick to one art you don’t personally I love aikido I feel some technics are very useful!
For ikkyo, rolling the pinned elbow back reduces the chance of escape.
It does increase the chance of sliding forward though. Always a trade.
Rolling from ikkyo pin is prevented by maintaining > 90 degree angle between arm and torso. Use your knees to do it: one knee at the ribs, one knee at the arm.
Frankly explained!
Congrats From Paris, France !
(But You have some formes like Fudoshin or shodokan and perhaps Tomiki more or less oriented grappling..)
As a BJJ student id say kudos for at least trying to come up with a workable ground game for aikido. Its taking things that dont work and getting rid of them or trying to come up with a better way that keeps a martial art valid and not stagnant
I wouldn't give this snake oil salesman kudos, he's putting naive people in danger by teaching them a fake martial art that would only work if u have a size and streghnt advantage over your attacker youd be better off just lifting weights and hitting a heavy bag.
In the scenario where uke has the knife it's doesn't seem to a 1:1 comparison. With the ikkyo pin the knife is isolated and secured. The mount hasn't secured the weapon. Maybe an americana to secure the weapon. I enjoy your video's, keep 'em coming.
I agree, it's hard to draw a clean comparison. However, I think it's important to note that Aikido pins are all arm pins, meaning we always assume there is a weapon, and wouldn't try to pin without that assumption.
Thanks for the comments!
@@ChuShinTani Sure but BJJ wouldn't try and pin the arm w/o controlling the body. The mount isn't a pin really. Shionage pin vs side control with an americana would be more more 1 to 1. Although that is the weakness of the shionage pin is you don't control the body. Sorry if I'm being nitpicky... Bored at home.
@@brianbeach5189 no, I understand. Pin can be a relative word. I'm using it simply to mean a way to hold someone to the ground in order to control them. So, side mount, top mount, scarf hold would all be what I call "pins".
In BJJ there is no assumption of the presence of a weapon- so most pins put no emphasis on arm control, only body control.
In Aikido there is always the assumption of a weapon, so we wouldn't pin without arm control.
If there is a weapon BJJ (systematically) will not account for it, Aikido will- for that assumption Aikido loses pin security for weapon security. BJJ loses weapon security for a gain on pin security.
In either case an individual can correct, the BJJ practitioner can use are control, and an Aikido practitioner can throw a leg over (like a rear knee on belly).
But I'm talking about how a system approaches pinning- in BJJ you go to the body control first, arm control second, in Aikido arm control first body control second.
Make sense?
@@ChuShinTani Yes, makes sense. Thanks for indulging me. The Gracie Self Defense does have weapon defense but they are all standing defenses - go figure. It isn't anything that isn't also in every Classical Japanese JJ. Pin is a squirrelly term. It's been my experience that Aikidoka see the pins as more permanent than they are. They are good transitional positions for disarms rather than hold downs where the BJJ/Judo are hold downs. Keep up the good work.
@Brian my thought was exactly. Starting from an Americana would be a more fair comparison. Also agree that Gracie JJ does have self-defense similar to JJJ but funnily enough they regress to doing forms without any aliveness drills.
This all begs the question of how you get there in the first place. I know you did another video of that Christoper - how would you see it changing with striking in the mix? I think what other systems have pressure tested once striking is added is striking and deflecting (+ma-ai) at the same time and secondarily trying to grapple. Grappling a knife wielding opponent is a VERY dangerous/violent prospect otherwise.... Fight Smart has some stuff on this. That and Rokas posted a video of guys who pressure tested various techniques with head gear on a while back that was helpful.
Thanks Christopher!
Im curious... do people skip pants entirely with hakama?
Most people in Aikido wear pants, in kendo no one wears pants. In our school shorts are pretty common.
@@ChuShinTani interesting...
Are there any japanese jujutsu/judo schools that specialize in newaza?
Do you do online consulting?
I do, you can contact me on Facebook and on patrion. Aikido of Fresno on facebook and christopher Hein on patrion.
I wondered for a long time why the ikkyo pin even existed because it seemed to only work if uke isn't very flexibile or tori was able to achieve a perfect position. It makes a lot more sense with a weapon involved, but it begs the question why that is never taught.
I think it is not taught because in the modern world most people are interested in unarmed ability- the idea that this could be used unarmed is much more appealing to the average person.
@@ChuShinTani Thanks for your reply! If that's the case, it seems like it's being portrayed/marketed that way even at the top level and in Japanese dojos.
When we talk about this subject specifically, we are no longer talking about just Aikido, but also Jujutsu. Jujutsu is a system of close quarters armed grappling... However when unarmed martial arts became vogue, (around 1883) all Jujutsu started to fancy themselves as unarmed systems. One system actually worked A LOT on unarmed tactics- Judo-- other Jujutsu styles never evolved to the degree that Judo did.
Aikido is not Jujutsu- but those are the kinds of techniques you see in Aikido- those techniques are not for unarmed situations.
@@ChuShinTani That's a very good point. Thank you for sharing your insight!
Im a student of both , its all good
Nice :)
Thanks
Very interesting tests and point of view. I'm shocked to see that as a bjj guy 😂
OK, I only have one criticism: you should have started the mount with his hands on the knife. Because you did exactly that in the ikkyo pin.
Also, a better choice for comparison would have been "ikkyo pin vs knee on belly pin". That, I feel, is the position that a BJJ practitioner would use when the opponent might be armed, or there might be other opponents.
I totally understand the criticism. My line of thinking is- how often does a BJJ practitioner grab the arm to land in mount? If that is not a common way that they find themselves in that position then that is not where we should start. The ikkyo pin will never happen if we don't first have the arm(in fact no Aikido pins would happen without first getting to the arm). Knee on belly is a common position, I feel not as common as top mount, but it would also have been a good choice. Even with knee on belly we would have seen these same issues.
Thanks for your comments.
"... we'll talk about some situations where aikido's ground game is perhaps even better than BJJ's ground game, and we'll also talk about a lot of times where it's not better than brazilian jiujitsu's ground game"
I'm watching this video because this and other remarks seem very humble and sincere. If it had started with the instructor trying to convince me about the superiority of Aikido's ground game or something like that it would have felt very different.
great arguments, i just need to have tanto in my belt more often ;)
I want to know where your academy is. I want to test my Brazilian jui jitsu against your akido grappling.
Aikido doesn't have any grappling. The video explains it all.
Try your BJJ grappling with multiple opponents and with knives.
@@yussuqmadiq5274 A) if you don't decide to run in either or all of those situations, you're an idiot.
B) Aikido doesn't work in a fight.
That is all
@@sam7811 Of course I would either run or draw my trusty 1911. On Aikido not working, don't know about that but getting on the ground while opponents are kicking you around.
Someone needs to share this channel with the Martial Arts Journey clown.
He's aware of it. And he's come a long way in the last few years!
@@ChuShinTani I'm glad to hear it because his channel and influence did some damage to traditional martial arts, Aikido in particular. I think his relationship with Jessie has done wonders.
Hope he gets around to retracting a lot of his "bullshido" accusations about legit systems.
I can definitely answer 'no' to the question in the thumbnail, but curious to see what's said anyway.
Sensei, would you agree that the future of Aikido would be weapons
I believe Aikido has systematically always been about weapons and multiple attackers. However I think Aikido got side tracked with unarmed, one-on-one situations pretty early on, and we haven't spent the time working with our systematic approach the way we should.
This is all based on the assumption that the student of Aikido are interested in something other than simply practicing Aikido.
This turned up to 11 if you compare it with the closed guard instead of the top mount...
Wow an aikido guy who isn't creepy. Nice for a change.
For a better comparison they should have compared the ikkyo pin to the back mounted position not the front mounted position..
Rear mount does not typically set up from the common takedowns used by BJJ competitors- ikkyo is the most common Aikido take down. We are looking at the difference in systematic approach, not just isolated techniques.
i always wandered if japanees jui jitsu would work (locks break techniques etc ) in jj must be something usefull in there even if it's harder with gloves
You mean works for sport. It clearly worked, it was trained in japan for hundreds of years by the warrior class.
It clearly doesn't work as well at BJJ as BJJ does.
As many said, there are much more efficient Ikkyo pin variations. My senseis would be quite upset if I used this one this way. 😉 Great situation comparison though!
It's unfortunate that I have to say this, but most Aikido sensei are not very good at holding someone down- if that person really wants to get up- maybe I'll make a video about it.
This dojo must be located in a place where land and rent are “cheap.” A studio of that size in a large U.S. city would cost a fortune to maintain each month. We’re in the middle of an “economy-killing pandemic” that has caused many martial arts schools to close.
Fresno has a population over half million people, so it's not a small city- but its pretty inexpensive for California. The pandemic has been a challenge at any rate.
Pretty sure if the top guy had 6months of Jiu-Jitsu would be able to mount bottom person correctly so the stabs would be less likely.
That is a video for another time.
If a guy has a knife, you should never trying and mount him to disarm.
It really looks like mounting someone who has a knife will get you stabbed. And you can't post when both of your hands are fighting for the knife, so you'll probably end up with someone with a knife in your guard
I like how you cut these videos. It reminds me of PBS Kids (I mean that in a good way)
replace Nage's aikido gi with a law enforcement uniform. Replace uke on the ground as a suspect. Replace the tanto with a gun or taser, etc. You now are describing exactly the scenario an officer would go through if they were fighting to retain their weapon and/or subdue their suspect.
I would like to see getting to the pin with a resisting opponent. If my opponent pulls a knife, i pull my gun.
Bro that smile she had at 9:25 when she stabbed him was pretty spooks lol
I'm understanding his explanations, but I dont really understand why hes comparing 2 completely different positions that aren't really even similar. Itd make more sense to compare that aikido arm pin and side control cuz they're more similar.
These two pins are systematically similar... Not strategically similar. This is because the two different system use different strategies.
@@ChuShinTani they're really not similar at all. Systematically or strategically. That why I gave the example of side control vs that arm pin.
@@fireeaglefitnessmartialart935that would be comparing techniques, not systems or strategies.
I think the positions are good to show his point, which i agree with. Of course there are lots of pins and positions in bjj that are similarly mobile and would compare better in that sense to the ikkyo pin, as he acknowledges martial arts that specialize in ground grappling are obviously more versatile and effective when it comes to ground grappling. Aikido's ground game is reduced and focuses on this kind of pins where you trade some control to retain mobility and keep the opponent away from your weapons, which you may also use to threaten the opponent and make up for the reduced control.
I think he meant to say that comparing BJJ's straight armbar with Aikido's Ikkyo would be a better and fair comparison. Because they are different techniques with the same purpose of locking an arm with a weapon.
Mr. Hein, have you ever grappled with BBJ student or teacher of.
Ive studied and competed in BJJ for several years.
@@ChuShinTani In tournaments how successful has Aikido done against BJJ?
You can't use Aikido in a BJJ tournament... Well you could, but you wouldn't win. Objectives are totally different. In BJJ you want to dominate your opponent, in Aikido you don't want to have an opponent. A winning Aikido strategy doesn't look like a winning BJJ strategy.
@@ChuShinTani So Steven Segal wouldn’t have a chance against BJJ?
In a BJJ tournament, against someone in his weight class, age and skill level- of course he would have a chance, that's the way BJJ tournaments work.
Once again, you add a weapon, or multiple opponents, and Aikido is superior. But in a real violent encounter, wouldn't a weapon and multiples usually be involved? Perhaps the Samurai were on to something. Just sayin. Also, I like your two assistants. Great video.
I don't understand why they are comparing a mount and a arm pin. I understand that Aikido doesn't implement ground game. But maybe compare a Jiu jitsu arm lock with this Arm pin. Otherwise alot of these experiments are insignificant.
An arm lock is a submission- in BJJ position (mount in this case) comes before submission (position then submission). In Aikido there are no take downs or pins without arm control (wrist control first anything else second). This is part of why Aikido systematically sucks at unarmed conflict, we control limbs first... That's inefficient for unarmed situations. However in situations that are potentially armed, not doing that can be dangerous- thus this comparison... As I said in the video there are problems when comparing systems and not just techniques.
Dude - please go on the Joe Rogan talk show - please, please, please
I was teaching my sons Arnis in a park several years ago. Teaching them how to use knives. Then a young guy came to me. He says that he was doing MMA and have a purple belt and BJJ. He says that what I am teaching wouldn't work. So I got irked and challenged him that I can stabbed him multiple times with my fiberglass knife smidge in lipstick. He agreed.
He was red all over. Gutted him a couple times, sliced his groin and neck , and stabbed him in the anus. Seems easier to stab someone when they are on the ground. Well probably a master of BJJ with experience in knife fighting would probably beat me, but a punk kid who was strictly trained in cage fights? I think that my chances of winning is high.
Sad story. That punk kid is now dating my daughter for almost a year. I told him that I'll castrate him if anything happened to her, and he took it seriously.
Ikkio pin should not be at a 90 degree angle it should be at a 45 degree above the head
Maybe compare ikkyo with rear mount instead? A much more analogous position in this context
There are lots of possible things we can show, but in truth there is not an Aikido pin that doesn't account for the arms, and there are few BJJ positions that do account for it. So I could show the BJJ positions that are best for this particular situation, but that isn't really the goal of BJJ as a system.
Bridge and roll girl.
I think if he ever went back to this I would also like to see the ease of getting into different pins tested. Because I do hapkido which is very similar to his aikido in some ways and some stuff, when testing with active opponents, is just way harder to get into than other stuff. That looks like a pretty simple twist into an armbar though so as long as you cab get that initial contact I guess you're fine
But I also like to think about potential safety of self defense techniques and if this person didn't have a knife and this was on pavement... both of these pins would have some potential issues, which is interesting
Any jiu Jitsu blue belt would woop any aikido black belts ass in a real fight. A jiu Jitsu black belt would make an aikido black belt look like a fuckin fool
Ground game is unsafe in most self defense situations.
so you think all aikido practitioners should always carry knife... sword..
Well, this type of systems were developed when anyone was carrying. Not having them makes you useless in the situation jj is designed for. That is why Kano marketed judo as a peacetime sport/education, not bujutsu.
90 degree ikkyo osae is not as effective as 45 degrees with small rotation in the arm exposing the elbow its tight.
Ikkyo is a weaker pin than top mount.
bjj sucks for self defence, 1 on 1 is in the dojo only! nice demo
I mean, breaking the arm is an option. But not for a demonstration. 😅
So basically Aikido is good for armed and/or multiple opponents. BJJ is good for mano y mano fights.
I am sorry but your comparison with mount and the knife thing is totally ridiculous. What about the rest of the fight. If you tell your students that they are being trained to be effective in the slightest against a knife attack, you should be scolded. You never practice with anything even close to a real knife attack. You should tell students to run as fast as they can from a knife fight, or any fight, for that matter.
The problem is what does an aikido guy do if a grappler takes him to the ground. I guess the aikido guy is lost. So aikido can't deal with an attack from a grappler unless he manages to grab his wrist before going to the ground. Aikido depends on wrist locks so if an attacker has wrapped wrists, the aikido guy has little alternatives. Wrapped wrists are a way to not allow the wrists to bend into a controlling position. Aikido is very limited in effectiveness. It has techniques worth knowing but aikido alone is useless against an accomplished grappler who has decent striking/kicking. If the aikido guy fails to grab a wrist, there is not much else he can do. And the main problem is that most aikido dojo's never have sparring or competition so they never practice realistic combat. They only do the aikido thing which has nothing to do with fighting. It's an art not to be confused with a martial art. No disrespect meant but a martial art is not a martial,art if it does not prepare you for realistic fighting of any kind. You will find very high level aikido guys who are reasonably effective because they have trained for decades with decent sparring against realistic opponents but that is against the aikido philosophy.
I think you should watch my other videos- they will answer many of your questions.
>> If the aikido guy fails to grab a wrist, there is not much else he can do.
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OK, I know this is an old comment, but I just need to address this. Why the hell do so many people who've never seen an aikido dojo from the inside insist that all aikidokas do is grab each other's wrists? This is simply not true.
very good stuff.I have used ikkyo effectively in actual confrontations many times. The technique is valid. It's how you train, you have. to train against resistance and a committed attacks. If doing Omote your irimi has to be right through the opponent, if doing Ura it really has to be Ura. Ego sensitive "I fall over for you so you far over for me" aikido does not work.
Couple of points which your video covers nicely
Tactically The main purpose of aikido pins is to control one opponent for a limited time while retaining the ability to identify a new threat and move to engage or avoid it. do not get tied up with one opponent. Posture and weight distribution is important.
Historically unarmed vs armed Aikido has no meaning. you are attacked while your weapon is sheathed. you immobilize your opponent allowing you to draw your weapon and finish them off if necessary. Aikido in this form is equally effective with handguns as well as knives. Of the "traditional" arts aikido and aikijujitsu adapt to modern CQB most effectively
Philosophically Aikido is like prison sex: if you become entangled to closely with your partner you loss freedom of motion, too separated from them you lose control of them and they can escape.
Enjoy your videos. respect to all.
It really irritates when young guys try to draw comparisons this way to prove their chosen art is better than someone elses. Boxing has no ground game, Kendo, Muay Thai, TaeKwonDo, Karate all have basically no ground game, but it doesn't mean they are no good. They are all designed to work in a framework of rules that would see one disqualified when stepping outside the rules.
Here's my opinion on Aikido and BJJ:
Do whichever you want to do!! Too often do we compare as practitioners. All forms of martial arts can be used for two things: self defense or relaxation/harmony with your body/mind, or it can do both. Sure, you probably won't beat a BJJ with Aikido, but who cares? One: why are you fighting someone to begin with? Two: calm your ego. It isn't worth it. BJJ guys aren't the Chinese invading Thailand or vice versa. There is no need to just beat the heck out of each other for no reason--unless you just want to, of course, then be respectful about it. This isn't war.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion but I really do believe weopon disarms are a waste of time. The chances of getting one to work are so slim it's not not even worth drilling them. Think about the adrenaline. Think about the speed violence happens. If you're lucky you might be able to punch somone who comes at you with a knife in the face and get him to drop it but that's really the best case scenario.
I understand where you are coming from- but I think you're only thinking of one narrow situation- two equally physical people in a known situation- like fighters in a ring. What if a mad 10 year old grabbed a knife? What if an elderly person lost their wits for a moment and thought they were back in the war? What about a person meaning to do harm that you have surprised? What about someone thinking of commiting suicide?
There are several videos out there showing people struggling over weapons in just these types of situations. In these cases I'm sure the people dealing with them would have enjoyed spending some time with disarms.
@@ChuShinTani Yes there are situations where these drills could work but the real question is should we rely on them and are they realistic for the most likely circumstance?
I do know some of these knife disarms drills because I went through a lot of them when I did trad jujitsu. I personally wouldn't use them. There are situations where you can't use them but even for the one on one situations they are intended for I would rather run away or throw a punch. That marker pen video you did also applies to a knife disarm drill. It's so difficult to get a knife out of someone's hand in reality. That's how that pycho in China manages to stab so many people before he was arrested.
If you think systematically, you should know all those things- don't go to places where armed psycho's hang out- failing that run, failing that be superiorly armed- failing the hit them with anything you can find- failing that hit them unarmed and wrestle them to control/disarm.
What we should do, and what we can do are often different things. Have options- train the highest percentage ones first/most, then go down the line with your time/effort
tooo many explanation boring?
To answer your question- I prefer a thorough explanation.
everything standing up can defeat bjj