Then the game will be boring. You need some sort of fast travel to make it good. I played BDO. At least there was the auto travel. But thing is that it makes the game look good I. Population which is bad. Reminds me of FF14. Players afk and rarely log off
I hope these countermeasures work. Zerging pretty much killed my enjoyment of New World open world pvp. At launch you could flag for PvP and have fun, intense encounters randomly in the woods with other flagged players, but it wasn't too long before the only flagged players were in groups of 15+.
I think the open world dungeons/raids are going to be a bigger issue than they think. People have limited time to do group centric things like raiding in MMOs. Now imagine a guild in this game getting together, the only time that week they can do any kind of raid and they're in open competition with anyone and everyone else in the area .... imagine fighting a boss as the tank and suddenly your heals stop because some random jackholes have jumped your healers during the fight or are just harassing them in ways that are preventing them from healing you.
True but I think this is the conflict they’re going for. Risk vs reward. But tbh like every mmo we have rn doesn’t have this risk/issue so I’d rather have this new style
The tech they've talked about where the boss scales based on how many, and how skilled the players in the area are, seems like the best solution to the problem. But, that was a one off mentioned like 2 years ago, and not a peep about it has been uttered since. But yes, bosses being turned into loot pinatas by massive numbers of players is a potential huge problem. Good vid Nyce
Thanks Xillin! Yea im hoping we get to see this showcased or in action come alpha 2. I think getting the scaling right will be key. Cause idc how strong you make an aoe, 40 players+ in an area typically aren’t struggling / wiping
DAoC was a game that had a perfect PVE/PVP setup of any MMO that's ever been. Man if they made a new version of that game it would crush it! I'm cheering for AoC hoping its all they say it will be!
I must admit, the one game mechanic in AoC that gives me pause is the concept of experience debt upon death. I've always thought overcoming a challenging boss or mob was thrilling, even if it required multiple attempts. However, the idea of facing an experience penalty makes me inclined to play more cautiously or at least differently than I usually would.
Yea I could see that. To be honest, I wonder what the true end result will be of this approach? Everyone being super tanky and super Zerg. Tough to say
It has worked in other MMOs, granted much older ones. Also, might be easy to disengage/run, so maybe hardly an issue at all. Will wait for late BETA to judge this mechanic
I like idea of death penalties but I can see problems it brings ie. The rage people bring in groups if they die and blame others . I stop playing new world for that fact . Tanking in dungeon trying to hold agro and dps not geared properly, die and raging on tank etc . Love your content .. thnx 🎉
@@Nyce-Gaming I plan to run a high priest as my grouping character. I'm hoping that the double cleric will give a boost to rez exp debt reduction. Your religion may influence that as well. My solo character will be a scout...ranger/rogue. Hoping rogue improves ranger stealth.
I honestly don’t mind Zerg’s, not after becoming an Albion online veteran, I’ll never forget how we fought 70 vs 400 and almost won. Tho Albion is made to be played as a Zerg or well trained group. If you design your game well enought zergs won’t be too much of a problem, after the game has established itself, game launch will be horrible tho. ruclips.net/video/5GRof5NLRG8/видео.htmlsi=8pQLziE2-ERuv5j9 This a compilation of our best performances in that season, where we as a solo guild got under the top 5.
Huge map and Lack of fast travel was tested out in New World. It was hated and was a primary reason people left. Fast travel could have a debuff associated with it, lasting double the time running there would take. This would allow both decisions to be viable while rewarding intended play.
My understanding is that people felt like the “fetch” quests were made to go back and forth between the huge map just to add to time played but without adding enjoyable time played. Traveling has got to be a “fun” part of the game if they expect players to be doing it a lot. Dunno if ashes will solve this.
There's nothing you can do about it. There will be zergs. You can limit half the systems and make the game 30x worse by trying to prevent zergs from existing and people will still always group with bigger numbers for the easy rewards. Even if you make the rewards 10x worse for the zerg, people will still choose to get something before not getting anything. That's okay, though: 1- Zergs are generally unorganized and for obvious reasons most of their players won't be that good. Smaller but much more organized clans can beat them. 2- The REALLY good PvP players generally hate being part of the zerg. As somebody who has always played PvP MMOs, it just feels like whatever you win means nothing if you just beat 50 people with 150. It's also just boring. A lot of players will walk away from that. I did in the past and I'm sure many will when it inevitably happens again. 3- More people = more egos. People in PvP MMOs argue and change sides constantly. The same guy that was helping the zerg with his party yesterday will be mad at something and helping you beat that same zerg next week. It's all about not being a giant baby and giving up instantly, talking to people, diplomacy here and there and that's it. I played L2 for nearly a decade and zergs never lasted more than 1-2 months max. 4- It's also just fun fighting outnumbered. You have to pick your battles better, since you can't just flag immediately everywhere or you'll go down to level 1 losing so much EXP, but there's literally no better feeling in any MMO than winning a mass PVP/siege/world boss with a smaller guild vs a zerg
The Zerg problem is that streamers think they should win a 1 v 10 by infinitely kiting with their "run away builds"....... and anytime they get stunned, or blown up by high DPS they go cry in forums to have things nerfed.....
Nah I think there's a legitimate issue to be discussed and how big man zerging anything can be problematic. For reference, in Elder Scrolls online there was an item set that dropped once called Oakensoul that everyone wanted, everyone was zerging down all the farming spots, literally 40-50 people all in one spot killing the exact same boss for HOURS. IMO there shouldn't be a situation where you have big zergs all doing the same thing, not even in PVE. No one wants to spend hours farming a boss
99.9% of the crying I see on forums is from toxic causals that think they should get the same things that other players that put way more time and effort into the game just for showing up. I don't hardly ever see people that choose to fight outnumbered complaining about anything on the forums. Your comment really just tells me a lot about how u play MMOs and what I am sure your overall attitude is while your running in your 40 man hoard light attacking people to death pretending you are good at the game. I find it hilarious that people that run in these huge groups complain about someone kiting. What exactly do u think the proper tactic would be 1v10 stand in the open and let people free cast on us? You better be happy u run into a lot of 1v10s because I have a pretty good idea how things would go in an even fight.
They mentioned how guilds will have to make a choice to level up their allowable members or get a guild buff that might up the attack, gathering or crafting skills. The idea is that a choice will need to be made and could ultimately lead to larger guilds not being able to get certain bonuses. And I agree with your assessment, of having longer travel times makes it hard for flash zergs or for reflexive groupings. I’m incredibly interested in the death punishments. I wonder how the community will handle it truthfully.
Any mmo ever tried turning on friednly fire. Seems like that and some sort of trip mechanic for stacking people in a single spot would help to limit zergs alot.
Maybe they should only allow 4-6 man groups. That so they don’t abuse the communication system. So that not everyone is in communication with one and other. And more division and other play styles might be more considered. Hey maybe even if a group attacks another group first that they can only apply damage to that group. So like first come first serve type of idea. Almost like how eso did group healing and not public healing before.
I think there’s no way to limit communication in online games. I remember old school cod with search and destroy limiting your comms after death, but people jumped in party chat or phone calls. Same today with discord. I don’t think the goal should be to discourage group play, but balance it. Only issue with first come first serve is that can get pretty annoying and cause boss camping. I think aoc wants you to fight over these limited resources instead
For PVE, I think Eso had a good idea going with Boss loot drops. Only the top DPS actually get loot to drop, so if you have 30+ people attacking a single boss, not everyone gets loot. I remember in ESO when oakensoul came out there was 40+ people farming the mudcrab boss for hours because not everyone could get the loot to drop due to the sheer numbers. Ashes should implement that same thing but also factor in people's roles like being a tank/healer and then the top DPS. So that way if people are zerging a boss, they're not guaranteed to get loot and it encourages people to not try to zerg down a boss.
Yea maybe they can implement a healing done or threat generated during that fight so support roles can get in the loot table. Would love to see rewards be better RNG the less ppl hit the boss so that incentivizes a group to get rid of competition
I don't mind zergs at all, but surely a good way to make it smaller the quantity would put some limitations on how many players can join a guild or a group... Make it smaller, like 20-30 people maximum in a guild
20-30 people in a clan is not enough. In Lineage 2 a clan had 40 members and an alliance had 9 or 11 clans. Then they updated the game for clans to have 120 members and alliances only 3 clans. Still exp loss on death should remain to discourage zergs. Even in Lineage 2 you lost xp during pvp, less in castle sieges, even less at higer levels and if clans had a passive skill that reduced the loss even more. However, losing 1% at lvl 79-81 meant hours of farm.
Death penalty definitely willnlead to zerging. My biggest concern honestly about AoC, is due my minor nerve damage from carpo tunnel, I need gamepad/controller support. And I go a feeling, AoC won't have it. At least not for a while, so my digit dexterity for key stoke will severely hamper my gameplay. Here's hoping it'll have controller support or some player will make a workable load out for it thru steam
I bet the community will always find a way like they did for new world through steam. I’m betting u can add aoc through steam library the way I do eso even though I have a stand alone launcher. But yea I’m thinking in a2 we won’t have it but will have it towards launch
I think there will be only a certain amount of loot dropped, from worldbosses, which then needs to be split between party members. Since not every one is getting their own loot, zerging down a world boss will not be efficient. edit: where zerging might become a problem is in pvp, especially castle and node sieges
I like this take. Cause it has a different perspective. One might say because of the limited loot and large population, there’s MORE incentive to zerg 👀
One thing that allows zerging is allowing players to spam abilities. One way to counter this is to create a debuff that scales based on player closeness and quantity and increases time between ability use.
yes and no. Unfortunately in a competitive game like Ashes will be, you'd have turds with alt accounts following good groups just to make em cause less damage (could ban for it but that rarely happens, hard enough to get clear cheaters banned). Seriously, if a mechanic can be used to grief it will be used to grief. I think only bosses can scale or rewards (PvE and PvP) can be adjusted. Really problematic for PvP since again, the mechanic can be used to grief or will cause social problems as newbs get yelled away from a fight,etc..
@@Nyce-GamingESO Bombers we're fun. Still prefer less Zerg,more smallscale grp content. Archage 2 for example killed their Mass large scale PvP for more gvg smallscale (20-30) Fights with trade Route wars while actually in development. Zerg v Zerg can BE nice. Depends ON the execution.
I am dealing with the zerg issue right now and its crazy how similar it is to the same issue ESO has. I have fallen in love with Guild Wars 2 but man their open world PvP called World v World is zergy af.
I think AoC could become the best MMO, but that's honestly not saying much. Similar to how saying classic WoW is the best MMO ever isn't saying much. I think MMOs are just too challenging to create. Each necessary aspect for an MMO: social, gameplay, story, RPG mechanics - is outdone by competition from standalone options. We already have great elements in different games and social media.
Wouldn't a way to prevent zerg rushing be changing how the party system works? I don't really play MMOs that often, but I know some things about it. Like, I know a little about how people party up and have seen some MMO-inspired shows. I don't know if any other games already have this, but this is what I thought of. I think a way to help stop zerg rushing is to change the party system. I was thinking they could make it so defeating monsters with a smaller party gives better rewards. And they could add a commander role for the party leader. This role will be able to use premade commands to tell the other players what to do. For example, there could be a formation command that works by assigning the other party members to a premade formation. Using a formation will give the other players attack or defense bonuses based on the formations. These could work by having you make them beforehand, assigning the spots for the other players to stand, which will be visualized by light for the party members to see and will have their names above where they need to be. It could work like, for example, in a diamond formation, you would assign your tank to the front and DPS to the sides, then you in the middle or back depending on your class. I think adding something like that could add more strategy to the game and encourage smaller groups of players. Like, if you think about it logically, if you stab and blast an animal in real life with 50 swords and 50 flamethrowers, you're not going to get any useful materials from that mangled and charred corpse. So, fewer people would give better results. If an mmo had this implemented into their game, it might be seen as annoying. But if it was there from the start, they would still complain but would need to tolerate it as they just bought the game. Edit: Thinking about it, for the formations, it should be more like a bubble that surrounds and follows the players when a command is given depending on the formation. Like the diamond formation doesn't need to be a perfect diamond; the players just need to stand on the side there name is at and be in a rough diamond shape so their movements aren't restricted as much.
Smaller party rewards can definitely help. I think people will just circumvent it by having multiple small groups walk in a dungeon together. So I guess making it based off how many ppl hit the boss can help?
I love Zerg combat ngl. Games that encourage zerging like New World, Mortal Online 2, and essentially Albion Online have been my most played games. There’s something that just gets my heart pumping when me and 75-100 others are facing a force of 75-100 or more enemies. Arena crap is easy 3v3 and 1v1 isn’t hard. Zerging means you gotta coordinate a ton of people and that communication and that huge battlefield of players is what honestly keeps me playing MMOs 🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳
Yea it’s definitely fun when you’re on equal level. Like I mentioned in the video I love large scale warfare too. It’s epic. I hope node sieges are like that. But when it’s 75-100 running down 2 guys it’s boring I guess lol
@@Nyce-Gamingyeah bro for sure! A fellow lover of PvP and large scale stuff to is the reason I love watching your stuff bro. God bless you and yours and keep up the great work man 💪🥳
My thoughts are what if there was friendly fire. It would fit the whole PvP environment and anyone can engage in it, but massive zergs are going to cause massive mistakes and they may kill each other off long before it becomes a serious problem and the focus being skill.
There won’t be friendly fire for people in your group, but group size is limited. However, if I recall, there’s settings to turn on in order to ensure your aoes don’t get you corrupted
Most likely there'll be a system to group up more than 1 party. A "raid" of sorts. In Lineage 2, where most of PVP/corruption system comes from, you could make a "command channel" for bigger events like epic bosses, castle sieges. Any large scale PVP event for sure. And entire "command channel" didn't get friendly fire. So zerging is possible to an absurd amount there. BUT - other clans/guild can form alliances and have as much people as the zerg. Once zerg is down, you either fight amongst yourselves or just proceed with the content together and share the loot. Drama, politics and all that good stuff comes out of it.
Interesting thought, but the tab targeting mixture makes anything that doesn’t do AOE hit the target. We saw this with the mage and ranger showcase. A hill got in the way, or a tree and the projectile simply went around or over the obstacles.
Ehh I guess? But 300 compared to a million (or whatever substantial number) is quite a difference. The comparison intending to compare like a 3 man group to 40 man zerg is the realm of thought. Group play and group tactics is great
have to say I dont think I am with the whole "anyone can enter the dungeon you are in" this only invites chaos and grief tacticians. Wow my first "x" for AoC. Wth Steven. :( thanks for this and I am looking forward to more from you! (:
This is what I keep thinking of. No matter how cool the game is or the mechanics a Zerg vs Zerg always turns into a ranged for ranged fight and everyone is just aoe’ing there is no skill or epic battle. Just a ton of lag and framing. Imo smaller scale yields better gameplay.
It really is a problem for all PvX MMOs and could cripple Ashes success. Massive guilds are something that has to be dealt with when it comes to PvP (along with alliances, etc., they are aware but it is tough to limit). And yes, bosses need to scale or something. The true limiter would be friendly fire, but that is impossible to do because of griefing. In PvP, alternatives would be to reverse scale rewards, somehow when you greatly outnumber opponent you don't 'get much' (like mostly stuff in a caravan is 'destroyed' or an area has fewer resources in it if 'a large guild/alliance' shows up to control it, that kind of stuff). Definitely difficult. PvE is less of a problem but like you said, more boring. So much PvE is so boring... I really wish for good AI bosses that have different/random set of mechanics, along with mobs that really swarm if you aren't careful. Alas most players who pve seem to like 'fixed dance or mindless'... bah
Yea I saw a suggestion that if x amount of people attack a target, the loot pool rng is even more bad on top of exp obviously being spread between them
This sounds like it will be a cool game, but with always on PvP I will never play it. But I do hope it does well and a lot of people like it and have a lot of fun playing it.
I never understand this take but to each their own I guess! They have many factors to offset people ganking you. There will be punishment for attacking players repeatedly just like Age of Wushu had. They will get a bounty and can go to jail and not be able to play for a while which is such an amazing feeling when you and your friends capture them or you ask for help and some high level comes and destroys them. If you never play it you'll never know!
The loot drop reduction for sure will. Plenty of people in EVERY mmo complains about loot drop rates. And for that to get reduced on death? ya no that's going to incentivize hard.
I still waiting for a MMO to have a few dungeon masters who can change the rules of the enviroment to add a different flavour to a game so you can expect the unexpected rather than the same battle over and over again. Just think 75 players Organistion build a settlement in a safe area now you get a Dungean master who attacks it and gives it different variety will be more interesting. To many games these days have to many bosses what happens you defeat all bosses now you bring a DM in who suddenly puts two bosses into it or 100 domians in it at the sametime. The only one who has tried something similar is Star citizen.
Give the bosses the Dark Souls mechanic where tanks won't matter with larger group sizes. Everyone has to know boss mechanics because it'll be randomized aggro based on who touched the boss last. While also making the boss a bigger damage sponge with more damage.
@@Nyce-Gaming the only mmo close to that is New World which still makes the main priority but the game becomes too braindead in pve with above 6-7 players on a boss. That's why random aggro should be a thing to force balance by killing off players who don't know anything about pve mechanics. ESO is also this way to a much higher degree of braindeadness because dps can absolutely melt everything with just one skill and a light attack combo
I have always hated zergs. I came from a long history of ffxi form 2004-2018 and our big fights were 18 people. Then I started New World and things that should be done with groups of 10 people or so are zerged by 100's. It makes it boring and requires little to no skill. I hope AOC makes big battles limited to party only or alliance only etc like old school games. If your group claims aggro its the only one that can damage it or something along those lines. Purchased a 250.00 voyager pack a year or 2 ago and am looking forward to this game. Also thanks for the AOC content.
I think if you Zerg a boss or server stack , the loot should be modified to trash loot instead of you just 4 man such boss . That alone would stop the zergling of the bosses and create a more of a challenge base to the game .
@@Nyce-Gaming I bet it will be done like in Lineage 2. Party or raid group with most damage or last hit will have the loot rights. Meaning you'll want to eliminate whoever is not on your side before starting the boss itself or at least before the last hit is struck. Hence the open world PVP is backbone of Ashes. So zergs might look like an option, but not for longs. Since the loot is limited only top people in the zerg will receive it. The rest will either leave after a while, for more competent guilds, or just zerg for the memes. In any case, zergs don't last forever if you don't let them.
Nightblade vicious death suicide bombers. I consider this playstyle so unbelievably toxic and one of the reasons ESO's Imperial City remains a ghost town. Hopefully Ashes developers can figure out a nice balance to deter zerging that does not involve 1 person being able to kill 20+ players without the ability to fight back.
It’s super annoying yea and I hope there’s a different way to deter zergs. I wouldn’t use the word ‘toxic’ but yea nothing more annoying than getting instanuked without being able to respond lol
@@Nyce-Gaming everything is easier with tab targeting, press skill and it hits! i wish they will make it like new world so we can see 1vX where you win not cause of your fat wallet but your skills
As with most elements of gameplay, the level of effectiveness of zergs in AoC remains to be seen. I'm often guilty of referencing the Wiki or statements by SS as established facts, but unfortunately all of these must be considered as "goals" or "expectations". As only current spot testers and the devs have experienced the mechanics and features of the game, I am convinced that gameplay at the start of A2 will not 100% meet the imagined conceptions of the majority of the community. A lot of commonly held beliefs will be proven incorrect, at least to some degree. There will be surprises and disappointments. I fully expect there to be wailing and gnashing of teeth in some sectors of the community.
Perhaps. Yea we can only go off what we’ve been told and theorize. But yea, I’m with you . There’s no doubt that so much will change or not FULLY be delivered on. There’s people quoting Steven from things he said 5 years ago regarding specific systems and I’m like……. lol
PvP zerging is for sad people. Quit ESO a while ago, oh wow just realised how long... yeah I think end of 2019, but I still remember the f*ckboy organised ball groups that some of the "PvP" guilds ran. Buffing, over healing, debuff cleansing , so they could just roll in fat ball over the top of anything. It was very sad.
If they take too long releasing this game the graphics is going to be outdated during the time it gets released for ex. 5 yrs from now. They need to release it unfinished and continue developing it..
I have Lost All interest in this game. Once it comes out, if it ever does, then I shall check it out again. Cya. But, if it goes anything like the Best and Original MMORPG EverQuest, it will be a fun fight between Guilds to take mobs and camp them or just over power the other guilds... good times. Hopefully, Elite mobs will be more of a weekly or longer time frame event and not a every 15 mins or 2 hours.. repeat.........forever. Hopefully, the spirit of actually playing a game returns and the challenge is there. Cya in 2025, maybe.
This video came right after you played eso 😂it’s so bad playing eso in prime time, but that’s also bc the meta/balance in the game is dog. Also the game holds the hand/ carries players. I still find it funny when 30 ppl chase me across the map on my sorc wasting 15 minutes of our lives.
@@Nyce-Gaming Bro I saw you played eso a few days ago & then this video popped up, I just knew😂 I small group & solo pvp so I just know this pain all to well.
Myrk ha´s never really been hard for us that know what to midagate been soling mines and myrk even the big portal for years now sure it can take up to 10-20 min to clear a big portal somes times if your´alone ore in 3-5 man grupp. But i barly play new world any more my company left nysa kds yesterday for abaton been in so many companys and shasing content for years now when most that played new world from alpha this 3-5 months is always gonna be low pop and paying 15e every time you shase content ore some true pvp action is not fun. Back to ac serge is one problem but atm they have like 5oo problems do this generation really whant this old way to play and grind no quality of life am 100% sure they don´t.
Zerg content and no open pvp is why NW sucks fat ballz. There's no mass PVE content. Every boss in open world dies in 2 seconds. And their "mythic" or "legendary" items are so lmao. How can you call item legendary if it drops from a trash mob (Featherweight)???? Or mob that can be zerged by 50 people? How is that a legendary status? Also lack of PVP allowed bots to go mega lulz on the game. In Lineage 2 if I saw a bot farming in my spot - I'd just kill it and move on with my farm. In NW? You see a bot running an ore route? Welp, there's nothing you can do about it. As for AOC. Whoever played Lineage 2 knows zergs do work, but only if you let them. In any server where there's a zerg they die off. Why? Raid bosses don't drop enough loot to feed the zerg. So other clans form alliances, mess up the zergs. And since zergs are filled with "apes stronk" mentality of people - after not getting loot or getting their asses handed to them they leave for another guild/clan. Alliances break, sides form again, and you're back to normal. New zerg rises, story repeats. THAT'S THE FUN OF OPEN WORLD PVP. Yes, you get ganked once in a while, but that doesn't happen as much as people, who haven't played AOC yet, or any open world PVP to begin with, are already crying in the comments and forums and discord servers. Got killed? Go get a friend, a clan mate, ask some random people to come and help you. This is an MMOrpg, not just an RPG. So similar things will happen in AOC. Why? Because PVP is open everywhere. Is that bad? For me - that's awesome. All new MMOs are soooo "I got killed QQ, remove open world PVP or I'll stop buying cosmetics". Can't wait for AOC. Can't wait to hunt some noobs, fight for farming spots and get my ass kicked when they come back with a party.
@@Nyce-Gaming glad to be of help. I'd suggest you look up some epic raid content in glory days of Lineage 2 (2004-2007, bosses Valakas, Baium, Antharas, and castle sieges (which should be similar idea to node wards, but AOC will be much more innovative)). This is what, I believe, AOC is trying to bring back. See the amount of people fighting for the chance to fight the boss or to own a territory. And there was no need for scaling or anything, because 1. Loot is limited. One epic boss drops 1 epic jewel (plus other good loot) and that boss spawns once a month 2. Only 1 party/raid group gets the loot 3. That other clan or party was trash talking you before so it's time to make some "ya mama jokes" and send them back to town. Just an example - watch?v=SgBQ1Vvx5HI&ab_channel=danieldefoTV (private server with good population). All these are human players. Only NPC is the bigass dragon. And it might look like they're all just mashing random skills, but there are rather deep party compositions and general tactics. And a lot of shouting over discord.
Oh god, hope they never listen to your ideas... jeez... you basicly have the book of 101 how to make a Mmo fails 😬... sorry but i reaaaaly don't like your ideas
I appreciate the apology after the rude comment lol. But in all seriousness, that's the whole point of these videos is for you to provide feedback. However, you only insulted me, but did not provide any solutions or feedback. Could you please tell me which ideas of mine are bad and what your suggestions are? And thanks for watching :)
@@Nyce-Gaming Well yeah you are right i didn't bring any feedback ....but in all fairness that wasn't ''rude'' at all ...saying those ideas was meant to make a game fail, maybe it was unpleasant but rude? And in other hands i prefer to go on official forums. RUclips is more a war of opinions...hehe ...maybe... just maybe BDO is more your style to be honest ?! no? What you describe leans more towards a PvP games than a PvE or PvX and from what i get (and i don't have to full picture of all your videos) You seem to wish that AoC should become more like other PvP games like (new world, BDO and that's not good long term gameplay for PvE/PvX mmo players (IMHO) BDO/NW kind of game leans towards niche players. From what i get about MMos PvE, people hates drama and PvP games bring a lot of it, so guild disband server becomes empty and people leaves and that's often why they become more solo oriented. With that said i don't know you ....and we haven't discuss real time so we have a full debate hehe... but thats what i feel from your video... but i could feel the wrong way... So basicly we have different approach, ideas on how we feel about AoC... so that's why i said how -to make a mmo fail-. geez that's way too long ... and FYI, english isn't my primary language so i hope it's still clear enough
@@thedaeron3877 great comment! Your English was fine. No; I don’t want aoc to be like new world or bdo because I already have those games available. Most ideologies I speak of and encourage in this video are already spoken in by the devs as their desires roughly. This is just an attempt to theorize how to make that a reality. Pve players defenitely dislike a lot of what you speak of but that’s not MY idea lol that’s AOC and its core design which is to conjur conflict
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Huge map+lack of fast travel are the key things that in theory should help a lot, as you mentioned.
Facts. I’m thinking with the huge map and hopefully a lot of relevant content spread throughout verra, this wouldn’t be a huge deal
Then the game will be boring. You need some sort of fast travel to make it good. I played BDO. At least there was the auto travel. But thing is that it makes the game look good I. Population which is bad. Reminds me of FF14. Players afk and rarely log off
There is some instant travel/teleportation, and some "faster" travel such as mounts, flight paths, etc. @@sneakymitchell7802
Should help, hard to say how much. At least for caravans that means many routes and so getting swarmed will happen but rarely (at least, in theory).
I hope these countermeasures work. Zerging pretty much killed my enjoyment of New World open world pvp. At launch you could flag for PvP and have fun, intense encounters randomly in the woods with other flagged players, but it wasn't too long before the only flagged players were in groups of 15+.
Thisss. No one solo or small group. Straight server stacking
Scaling boss mechanics based on group size. I hope this aspect is good
I think the open world dungeons/raids are going to be a bigger issue than they think. People have limited time to do group centric things like raiding in MMOs. Now imagine a guild in this game getting together, the only time that week they can do any kind of raid and they're in open competition with anyone and everyone else in the area .... imagine fighting a boss as the tank and suddenly your heals stop because some random jackholes have jumped your healers during the fight or are just harassing them in ways that are preventing them from healing you.
True but I think this is the conflict they’re going for. Risk vs reward. But tbh like every mmo we have rn doesn’t have this risk/issue so I’d rather have this new style
Love it! Thanks for explaining what dark convergence was, I’ve heard you mention it before, but didn’t understand the context.
🫡 thanks for watching. Yea little Zerg busters like this are typically fun in theory
The tech they've talked about where the boss scales based on how many, and how skilled the players in the area are, seems like the best solution to the problem. But, that was a one off mentioned like 2 years ago, and not a peep about it has been uttered since. But yes, bosses being turned into loot pinatas by massive numbers of players is a potential huge problem. Good vid Nyce
Thanks Xillin! Yea im hoping we get to see this showcased or in action come alpha 2. I think getting the scaling right will be key. Cause idc how strong you make an aoe, 40 players+ in an area typically aren’t struggling / wiping
DAoC was a game that had a perfect PVE/PVP setup of any MMO that's ever been. Man if they made a new version of that game it would crush it! I'm cheering for AoC hoping its all they say it will be!
I must admit, the one game mechanic in AoC that gives me pause is the concept of experience debt upon death. I've always thought overcoming a challenging boss or mob was thrilling, even if it required multiple attempts. However, the idea of facing an experience penalty makes me inclined to play more cautiously or at least differently than I usually would.
Yea I could see that. To be honest, I wonder what the true end result will be of this approach? Everyone being super tanky and super Zerg. Tough to say
If on highest level, there is no XP drop anymore, everything changes tho.
After Wow hardcore, XP penalty on death feels like nothing. Not everyone got used to major death penalties from hardcore though.
It has worked in other MMOs, granted much older ones. Also, might be easy to disengage/run, so maybe hardly an issue at all. Will wait for late BETA to judge this mechanic
@@GP-ur6if yea and I’m sure being able to mount mid combat will help
I like idea of death penalties but I can see problems it brings ie. The rage people bring in groups if they die and blame others .
I stop playing new world for that fact . Tanking in dungeon trying to hold agro and dps not geared properly, die and raging on tank etc . Love your content .. thnx 🎉
For sure. Thanks !
I'm sure being rez'd by a cleric will greatly readuce the death exp penalty. I will be accepting tips.
lol smart
@@Nyce-Gaming I plan to run a high priest as my grouping character. I'm hoping that the double cleric will give a boost to rez exp debt reduction. Your religion may influence that as well.
My solo character will be a scout...ranger/rogue. Hoping rogue improves ranger stealth.
I honestly don’t mind Zerg’s, not after becoming an Albion online veteran, I’ll never forget how we fought 70 vs 400 and almost won. Tho Albion is made to be played as a Zerg or well trained group. If you design your game well enought zergs won’t be too much of a problem, after the game has established itself, game launch will be horrible tho.
ruclips.net/video/5GRof5NLRG8/видео.htmlsi=8pQLziE2-ERuv5j9
This a compilation of our best performances in that season, where we as a solo guild got under the top 5.
large scale warfare, but still outnumbered against the odds. gotta love it.
Huge map and Lack of fast travel was tested out in New World. It was hated and was a primary reason people left. Fast travel could have a debuff associated with it, lasting double the time running there would take. This would allow both decisions to be viable while rewarding intended play.
My understanding is that people felt like the “fetch” quests were made to go back and forth between the huge map just to add to time played but without adding enjoyable time played.
Traveling has got to be a “fun” part of the game if they expect players to be doing it a lot. Dunno if ashes will solve this.
There's nothing you can do about it. There will be zergs. You can limit half the systems and make the game 30x worse by trying to prevent zergs from existing and people will still always group with bigger numbers for the easy rewards. Even if you make the rewards 10x worse for the zerg, people will still choose to get something before not getting anything.
That's okay, though:
1- Zergs are generally unorganized and for obvious reasons most of their players won't be that good. Smaller but much more organized clans can beat them.
2- The REALLY good PvP players generally hate being part of the zerg. As somebody who has always played PvP MMOs, it just feels like whatever you win means nothing if you just beat 50 people with 150. It's also just boring. A lot of players will walk away from that. I did in the past and I'm sure many will when it inevitably happens again.
3- More people = more egos. People in PvP MMOs argue and change sides constantly. The same guy that was helping the zerg with his party yesterday will be mad at something and helping you beat that same zerg next week. It's all about not being a giant baby and giving up instantly, talking to people, diplomacy here and there and that's it. I played L2 for nearly a decade and zergs never lasted more than 1-2 months max.
4- It's also just fun fighting outnumbered. You have to pick your battles better, since you can't just flag immediately everywhere or you'll go down to level 1 losing so much EXP, but there's literally no better feeling in any MMO than winning a mass PVP/siege/world boss with a smaller guild vs a zerg
It's insane how good NW looks compared to other MMO's even un released MMO's in this case.
Yea new world has the best art style in terms of ‘realism’
Even the lack of coms for 50-man wars?
@@nblife916 I think he’s purely talking art style and/or graphics
The Zerg problem is that streamers think they should win a 1 v 10 by infinitely kiting with their "run away builds"....... and anytime they get stunned, or blown up by high DPS they go cry in forums to have things nerfed.....
I’ve never seen this mentality. Pretty poor one to have lol
Nah I think there's a legitimate issue to be discussed and how big man zerging anything can be problematic. For reference, in Elder Scrolls online there was an item set that dropped once called Oakensoul that everyone wanted, everyone was zerging down all the farming spots, literally 40-50 people all in one spot killing the exact same boss for HOURS. IMO there shouldn't be a situation where you have big zergs all doing the same thing, not even in PVE. No one wants to spend hours farming a boss
99.9% of the crying I see on forums is from toxic causals that think they should get the same things that other players that put way more time and effort into the game just for showing up. I don't hardly ever see people that choose to fight outnumbered complaining about anything on the forums. Your comment really just tells me a lot about how u play MMOs and what I am sure your overall attitude is while your running in your 40 man hoard light attacking people to death pretending you are good at the game. I find it hilarious that people that run in these huge groups complain about someone kiting. What exactly do u think the proper tactic would be 1v10 stand in the open and let people free cast on us? You better be happy u run into a lot of 1v10s because I have a pretty good idea how things would go in an even fight.
They mentioned how guilds will have to make a choice to level up their allowable members or get a guild buff that might up the attack, gathering or crafting skills.
The idea is that a choice will need to be made and could ultimately lead to larger guilds not being able to get certain bonuses.
And I agree with your assessment, of having longer travel times makes it hard for flash zergs or for reflexive groupings.
I’m incredibly interested in the death punishments. I wonder how the community will handle it truthfully.
Yea I’m awaiting the outrage
Any mmo ever tried turning on friednly fire. Seems like that and some sort of trip mechanic for stacking people in a single spot would help to limit zergs alot.
Maybe they should only allow 4-6 man groups. That so they don’t abuse the communication system. So that not everyone is in communication with one and other. And more division and other play styles might be more considered. Hey maybe even if a group attacks another group first that they can only apply damage to that group. So like first come first serve type of idea. Almost like how eso did group healing and not public healing before.
I think there’s no way to limit communication in online games. I remember old school cod with search and destroy limiting your comms after death, but people jumped in party chat or phone calls. Same today with discord. I don’t think the goal should be to discourage group play, but balance it. Only issue with first come first serve is that can get pretty annoying and cause boss camping. I think aoc wants you to fight over these limited resources instead
For PVE, I think Eso had a good idea going with Boss loot drops. Only the top DPS actually get loot to drop, so if you have 30+ people attacking a single boss, not everyone gets loot. I remember in ESO when oakensoul came out there was 40+ people farming the mudcrab boss for hours because not everyone could get the loot to drop due to the sheer numbers.
Ashes should implement that same thing but also factor in people's roles like being a tank/healer and then the top DPS. So that way if people are zerging a boss, they're not guaranteed to get loot and it encourages people to not try to zerg down a boss.
Yea maybe they can implement a healing done or threat generated during that fight so support roles can get in the loot table. Would love to see rewards be better RNG the less ppl hit the boss so that incentivizes a group to get rid of competition
lol @ 9:25 did he turn his camera to avoid showing the npc (or player) lag running in place. 😂
I don't mind zergs at all, but surely a good way to make it smaller the quantity would put some limitations on how many players can join a guild or a group... Make it smaller, like 20-30 people maximum in a guild
Guild size already has its pros and cons but I’m with ya. Limiting open world group size could be key
20-30 people in a clan is not enough.
In Lineage 2 a clan had 40 members and an alliance had 9 or 11 clans. Then they updated the game for clans to have 120 members and alliances only 3 clans.
Still exp loss on death should remain to discourage zergs. Even in Lineage 2 you lost xp during pvp, less in castle sieges, even less at higer levels and if clans had a passive skill that reduced the loss even more. However, losing 1% at lvl 79-81 meant hours of farm.
Death penalty definitely willnlead to zerging.
My biggest concern honestly about AoC, is due my minor nerve damage from carpo tunnel, I need gamepad/controller support. And I go a feeling, AoC won't have it. At least not for a while, so my digit dexterity for key stoke will severely hamper my gameplay. Here's hoping it'll have controller support or some player will make a workable load out for it thru steam
I bet the community will always find a way like they did for new world through steam. I’m betting u can add aoc through steam library the way I do eso even though I have a stand alone launcher. But yea I’m thinking in a2 we won’t have it but will have it towards launch
I think there will be only a certain amount of loot dropped, from worldbosses, which then needs to be split between party members. Since not every one is getting their own loot, zerging down a world boss will not be efficient.
edit: where zerging might become a problem is in pvp, especially castle and node sieges
I like this take. Cause it has a different perspective. One might say because of the limited loot and large population, there’s MORE incentive to zerg 👀
One thing that allows zerging is allowing players to spam abilities. One way to counter this is to create a debuff that scales based on player closeness and quantity and increases time between ability use.
Zerging would be cool if low level players were encouraged to Zerg and high level players would find it pointless to Zerg.
Ahh ive seen this suggested before. Decreasing damage based on group size or proximity to other players 🤔
yes and no. Unfortunately in a competitive game like Ashes will be, you'd have turds with alt accounts following good groups just to make em cause less damage (could ban for it but that rarely happens, hard enough to get clear cheaters banned). Seriously, if a mechanic can be used to grief it will be used to grief. I think only bosses can scale or rewards (PvE and PvP) can be adjusted. Really problematic for PvP since again, the mechanic can be used to grief or will cause social problems as newbs get yelled away from a fight,etc..
Anti zerg mechanics sounds very interesting and great video as always! ❤
Would love to see ‘bombers’ in ashes lol
@@Nyce-GamingESO Bombers we're fun. Still prefer less Zerg,more smallscale grp content.
Archage 2 for example killed their Mass large scale PvP for more gvg smallscale (20-30) Fights with trade Route wars while actually in development. Zerg v Zerg can BE nice. Depends ON the execution.
@@actosh7670 I could get behind this. Maybe node sieges will be the only large scale warfare
I am dealing with the zerg issue right now and its crazy how similar it is to the same issue ESO has. I have fallen in love with Guild Wars 2 but man their open world PvP called World v World is zergy af.
Yea was ball groups each time I entered
@@Nyce-GamingThey have no shame either bruh they will chase u with 30 people when your all by yourself just chillin.
I think AoC could become the best MMO, but that's honestly not saying much. Similar to how saying classic WoW is the best MMO ever isn't saying much.
I think MMOs are just too challenging to create. Each necessary aspect for an MMO: social, gameplay, story, RPG mechanics - is outdone by competition from standalone options. We already have great elements in different games and social media.
Wouldn't a way to prevent zerg rushing be changing how the party system works? I don't really play MMOs that often, but I know some things about it.
Like, I know a little about how people party up and have seen some MMO-inspired shows.
I don't know if any other games already have this, but this is what I thought of.
I think a way to help stop zerg rushing is to change the party system. I was thinking they could make it so defeating monsters with a smaller party gives better rewards.
And they could add a commander role for the party leader. This role will be able to use premade commands to tell the other players what to do. For example, there could be a formation command that works by assigning the other party members to a premade formation.
Using a formation will give the other players attack or defense bonuses based on the formations. These could work by having you make them beforehand, assigning the spots for the other players to stand, which will be visualized by light for the party members to see and will have their names above where they need to be.
It could work like, for example, in a diamond formation, you would assign your tank to the front and DPS to the sides, then you in the middle or back depending on your class.
I think adding something like that could add more strategy to the game and encourage smaller groups of players.
Like, if you think about it logically, if you stab and blast an animal in real life with 50 swords and 50 flamethrowers, you're not going to get any useful materials from that mangled and charred corpse. So, fewer people would give better results.
If an mmo had this implemented into their game, it might be seen as annoying. But if it was there from the start, they would still complain but would need to tolerate it as they just bought the game.
Edit: Thinking about it, for the formations, it should be more like a bubble that surrounds and follows the players when a command is given depending on the formation. Like the diamond formation doesn't need to be a perfect diamond; the players just need to stand on the side there name is at and be in a rough diamond shape so their movements aren't restricted as much.
Smaller party rewards can definitely help. I think people will just circumvent it by having multiple small groups walk in a dungeon together. So I guess making it based off how many ppl hit the boss can help?
I love Zerg combat ngl. Games that encourage zerging like New World, Mortal Online 2, and essentially Albion Online have been my most played games. There’s something that just gets my heart pumping when me and 75-100 others are facing a force of 75-100 or more enemies. Arena crap is easy 3v3 and 1v1 isn’t hard. Zerging means you gotta coordinate a ton of people and that communication and that huge battlefield of players is what honestly keeps me playing MMOs 🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳
Yea it’s definitely fun when you’re on equal level. Like I mentioned in the video I love large scale warfare too. It’s epic. I hope node sieges are like that. But when it’s 75-100 running down 2 guys it’s boring I guess lol
@@Nyce-Gamingyeah bro for sure! A fellow lover of PvP and large scale stuff to is the reason I love watching your stuff bro. God bless you and yours and keep up the great work man 💪🥳
My thoughts are what if there was friendly fire. It would fit the whole PvP environment and anyone can engage in it, but massive zergs are going to cause massive mistakes and they may kill each other off long before it becomes a serious problem and the focus being skill.
There won’t be friendly fire for people in your group, but group size is limited. However, if I recall, there’s settings to turn on in order to ensure your aoes don’t get you corrupted
Most likely there'll be a system to group up more than 1 party. A "raid" of sorts. In Lineage 2, where most of PVP/corruption system comes from, you could make a "command channel" for bigger events like epic bosses, castle sieges. Any large scale PVP event for sure. And entire "command channel" didn't get friendly fire. So zerging is possible to an absurd amount there. BUT - other clans/guild can form alliances and have as much people as the zerg. Once zerg is down, you either fight amongst yourselves or just proceed with the content together and share the loot. Drama, politics and all that good stuff comes out of it.
Interesting thought, but the tab targeting mixture makes anything that doesn’t do AOE hit the target.
We saw this with the mage and ranger showcase. A hill got in the way, or a tree and the projectile simply went around or over the obstacles.
The Spartans were in a clump stacking their damage against the Persian Empire soldiers. So yes, even the Spartans used Zerging tactics.
Ehh I guess? But 300 compared to a million (or whatever substantial number) is quite a difference. The comparison intending to compare like a 3 man group to 40 man zerg is the realm of thought. Group play and group tactics is great
have to say I dont think I am with the whole "anyone can enter the dungeon you are in" this only invites chaos and grief tacticians. Wow my first "x" for AoC. Wth Steven. :(
thanks for this and I am looking forward to more from you! (:
I honestly think that’s the conflict they’ve always encouraged tbh. Risk vs reward
I’ll discuss on tomorrow’s podcast
This is what I keep thinking of. No matter how cool the game is or the mechanics a Zerg vs Zerg always turns into a ranged for ranged fight and everyone is just aoe’ing there is no skill or epic battle. Just a ton of lag and framing. Imo smaller scale yields better gameplay.
Yea I love/prefer outnumbered or 1vX. And I’m hoping ranged isn’t too dominant like it is in most games
It really is a problem for all PvX MMOs and could cripple Ashes success. Massive guilds are something that has to be dealt with when it comes to PvP (along with alliances, etc., they are aware but it is tough to limit). And yes, bosses need to scale or something. The true limiter would be friendly fire, but that is impossible to do because of griefing. In PvP, alternatives would be to reverse scale rewards, somehow when you greatly outnumber opponent you don't 'get much' (like mostly stuff in a caravan is 'destroyed' or an area has fewer resources in it if 'a large guild/alliance' shows up to control it, that kind of stuff). Definitely difficult. PvE is less of a problem but like you said, more boring. So much PvE is so boring... I really wish for good AI bosses that have different/random set of mechanics, along with mobs that really swarm if you aren't careful. Alas most players who pve seem to like 'fixed dance or mindless'... bah
Yea I saw a suggestion that if x amount of people attack a target, the loot pool rng is even more bad on top of exp obviously being spread between them
Seeing this somehow gives me DaoC-Vibes... And I had good times there.
I hear sooo many good things bout DAOC. Sucks I missed out on it
This sounds like it will be a cool game, but with always on PvP I will never play it.
But I do hope it does well and a lot of people like it and have a lot of fun playing it.
Fair and well said! Yea, just keep an eye on it :)
Also I think with the corruption system that ‘forced PvP’ will be super seldom. But we’ll see!
I never understand this take but to each their own I guess! They have many factors to offset people ganking you. There will be punishment for attacking players repeatedly just like Age of Wushu had. They will get a bounty and can go to jail and not be able to play for a while which is such an amazing feeling when you and your friends capture them or you ask for help and some high level comes and destroys them. If you never play it you'll never know!
The loot drop reduction for sure will. Plenty of people in EVERY mmo complains about loot drop rates. And for that to get reduced on death? ya no that's going to incentivize hard.
Yea man lol people may treat this like hardcore wow
Friendly fire would put a damper on the zerg train.
I still waiting for a MMO to have a few dungeon masters who can change the rules of the enviroment to add a different flavour to a game so you can expect the unexpected rather than the same battle over and over again. Just think 75 players Organistion build a settlement in a safe area now you get a Dungean master who attacks it and gives it different variety will be more interesting. To many games these days have to many bosses what happens you defeat all bosses now you bring a DM in who suddenly puts two bosses into it or 100 domians in it at the sametime. The only one who has tried something similar is Star citizen.
Dude I’ve never experienced nor ever seen a GM. The concept sounds so awesome and can literally give a game limitless spontaneous interactions
Give the bosses the Dark Souls mechanic where tanks won't matter with larger group sizes. Everyone has to know boss mechanics because it'll be randomized aggro based on who touched the boss last. While also making the boss a bigger damage sponge with more damage.
idk if a majority will agree, but I’d truly love souls like mechanics difficulty in a mmo 👀
@@Nyce-Gaming the only mmo close to that is New World which still makes the main priority but the game becomes too braindead in pve with above 6-7 players on a boss. That's why random aggro should be a thing to force balance by killing off players who don't know anything about pve mechanics. ESO is also this way to a much higher degree of braindeadness because dps can absolutely melt everything with just one skill and a light attack combo
Game makes me think that the devs played a lot of DAoC back in the day.
Yea a lot of their team are from quite a diverse mmo background
I have always hated zergs. I came from a long history of ffxi form 2004-2018 and our big fights were 18 people. Then I started New World and things that should be done with groups of 10 people or so are zerged by 100's. It makes it boring and requires little to no skill. I hope AOC makes big battles limited to party only or alliance only etc like old school games. If your group claims aggro its the only one that can damage it or something along those lines.
Purchased a 250.00 voyager pack a year or 2 ago and am looking forward to this game. Also thanks for the AOC content.
Thanks for watching! And yea I agree mass numbers trivializes content so much
with all these death penalties, im scared of the griefers... whats the answer to that?
Corruption system will deter this. They endure corruption penalties and negatives
I think if you Zerg a boss or server stack , the loot should be modified to trash loot instead of you just 4 man such boss . That alone would stop the zergling of the bosses and create a more of a challenge base to the game .
I like this idea. The more people in a loot table (people who damaged a boss) the less the max potential rewards are 👀
@@Nyce-Gaming I bet it will be done like in Lineage 2. Party or raid group with most damage or last hit will have the loot rights. Meaning you'll want to eliminate whoever is not on your side before starting the boss itself or at least before the last hit is struck. Hence the open world PVP is backbone of Ashes. So zergs might look like an option, but not for longs. Since the loot is limited only top people in the zerg will receive it. The rest will either leave after a while, for more competent guilds, or just zerg for the memes. In any case, zergs don't last forever if you don't let them.
Nice Ideas :) thank you
Nightblade vicious death suicide bombers. I consider this playstyle so unbelievably toxic and one of the reasons ESO's Imperial City remains a ghost town. Hopefully Ashes developers can figure out a nice balance to deter zerging that does not involve 1 person being able to kill 20+ players without the ability to fight back.
It’s super annoying yea and I hope there’s a different way to deter zergs. I wouldn’t use the word ‘toxic’ but yea nothing more annoying than getting instanuked without being able to respond lol
New sub. Good stuff man
Truly appreciated!
if this game release as a tab target then all you need is a lot of time to grind or fat wallet or join a massive leauge, clan, guild
Do you feel tab makes zerging easier?
@@Nyce-Gaming everything is easier with tab targeting, press skill and it hits! i wish they will make it like new world so we can see 1vX where you win not cause of your fat wallet but your skills
Yea the auto-homing missiles isn't as rewarding to me than aiming
Wait....it can be Played?
Not yet we’re a couple months out
Why do i feel like AoC looks a bit stiff. In comparison to New World.
It’s just the pure action combat vs tab is all. We won’t know until we play however. I remember watching new world and just saying “eww” lol
Then that changed after playing
So is this game coming out?
Alpha 2 quarter 3 this year! Lasts til launch
As with most elements of gameplay, the level of effectiveness of zergs in AoC remains to be seen. I'm often guilty of referencing the Wiki or statements by SS as established facts, but unfortunately all of these must be considered as "goals" or "expectations". As only current spot testers and the devs have experienced the mechanics and features of the game, I am convinced that gameplay at the start of A2 will not 100% meet the imagined conceptions of the majority of the community. A lot of commonly held beliefs will be proven incorrect, at least to some degree. There will be surprises and disappointments. I fully expect there to be wailing and gnashing of teeth in some sectors of the community.
Perhaps. Yea we can only go off what we’ve been told and theorize. But yea, I’m with you . There’s no doubt that so much will change or not FULLY be delivered on. There’s people quoting Steven from things he said 5 years ago regarding specific systems and I’m like……. lol
PvP zerging is for sad people. Quit ESO a while ago, oh wow just realised how long... yeah I think end of 2019, but I still remember the f*ckboy organised ball groups that some of the "PvP" guilds ran. Buffing, over healing, debuff cleansing , so they could just roll in fat ball over the top of anything. It was very sad.
Don't reward zergs. If the game encourages it by rewarding them....then there's gonna be zergs
Artillery banned zerging in real life warfare
I think we got some in AOC 👀
If they take too long releasing this game the graphics is going to be outdated during the time it gets released for ex. 5 yrs from now. They need to release it unfinished and continue developing it..
I think it depends on the art direction. If it had realism art like new world then I’d agree, bat as especially in ue5; it’s perhaps fine
Zergs are going to be like a all-you-can-eat buffet for PVP guilds.
I have Lost All interest in this game. Once it comes out, if it ever does, then I shall check it out again. Cya. But, if it goes anything like the Best and Original MMORPG EverQuest, it will be a fun fight between Guilds to take mobs and camp them or just over power the other guilds... good times. Hopefully, Elite mobs will be more of a weekly or longer time frame event and not a every 15 mins or 2 hours.. repeat.........forever. Hopefully, the spirit of actually playing a game returns and the challenge is there. Cya in 2025, maybe.
It’s always good to take a break and just check in on it incrementally
This video came right after you played eso 😂it’s so bad playing eso in prime time, but that’s also bc the meta/balance in the game is dog. Also the game holds the hand/ carries players. I still find it funny when 30 ppl chase me across the map on my sorc wasting 15 minutes of our lives.
Lmao is that obvious that I was inspired?
@@Nyce-Gaming Bro I saw you played eso a few days ago & then this video popped up, I just knew😂 I small group & solo pvp so I just know this pain all to well.
16 man raids *drool*
🤤
Myrk ha´s never really been hard for us that know what to midagate been soling mines and myrk even the big portal for years now sure it can take up to 10-20 min to clear a big portal somes times if your´alone ore in 3-5 man grupp. But i barly play new world any more my company left nysa kds yesterday for abaton been in so many companys and shasing content for years now when most that played new world from alpha this 3-5 months is always gonna be low pop and paying 15e every time you shase content ore some true pvp action is not fun. Back to ac serge is one problem but atm they have like 5oo problems do this generation really whant this old way to play and grind no quality of life am 100% sure they don´t.
zug zug
Zerg content and no open pvp is why NW sucks fat ballz. There's no mass PVE content. Every boss in open world dies in 2 seconds. And their "mythic" or "legendary" items are so lmao. How can you call item legendary if it drops from a trash mob (Featherweight)???? Or mob that can be zerged by 50 people? How is that a legendary status?
Also lack of PVP allowed bots to go mega lulz on the game. In Lineage 2 if I saw a bot farming in my spot - I'd just kill it and move on with my farm. In NW? You see a bot running an ore route? Welp, there's nothing you can do about it.
As for AOC. Whoever played Lineage 2 knows zergs do work, but only if you let them. In any server where there's a zerg they die off. Why? Raid bosses don't drop enough loot to feed the zerg. So other clans form alliances, mess up the zergs. And since zergs are filled with "apes stronk" mentality of people - after not getting loot or getting their asses handed to them they leave for another guild/clan. Alliances break, sides form again, and you're back to normal. New zerg rises, story repeats. THAT'S THE FUN OF OPEN WORLD PVP. Yes, you get ganked once in a while, but that doesn't happen as much as people, who haven't played AOC yet, or any open world PVP to begin with, are already crying in the comments and forums and discord servers. Got killed? Go get a friend, a clan mate, ask some random people to come and help you. This is an MMOrpg, not just an RPG.
So similar things will happen in AOC. Why? Because PVP is open everywhere. Is that bad? For me - that's awesome. All new MMOs are soooo "I got killed QQ, remove open world PVP or I'll stop buying cosmetics". Can't wait for AOC. Can't wait to hunt some noobs, fight for farming spots and get my ass kicked when they come back with a party.
👏 I loooove this comment. Very thought provoking . I’ll include it on the next podcast likely. Open world PvP changes so much when it comes to zerging
@@Nyce-Gaming glad to be of help. I'd suggest you look up some epic raid content in glory days of Lineage 2 (2004-2007, bosses Valakas, Baium, Antharas, and castle sieges (which should be similar idea to node wards, but AOC will be much more innovative)). This is what, I believe, AOC is trying to bring back. See the amount of people fighting for the chance to fight the boss or to own a territory. And there was no need for scaling or anything, because 1. Loot is limited. One epic boss drops 1 epic jewel (plus other good loot) and that boss spawns once a month 2. Only 1 party/raid group gets the loot 3. That other clan or party was trash talking you before so it's time to make some "ya mama jokes" and send them back to town.
Just an example - watch?v=SgBQ1Vvx5HI&ab_channel=danieldefoTV (private server with good population). All these are human players. Only NPC is the bigass dragon. And it might look like they're all just mashing random skills, but there are rather deep party compositions and general tactics. And a lot of shouting over discord.
Oh god, hope they never listen to your ideas... jeez... you basicly have the book of 101 how to make a Mmo fails 😬... sorry but i reaaaaly don't like your ideas
I appreciate the apology after the rude comment lol. But in all seriousness, that's the whole point of these videos is for you to provide feedback. However, you only insulted me, but did not provide any solutions or feedback. Could you please tell me which ideas of mine are bad and what your suggestions are? And thanks for watching :)
@@Nyce-Gaming Well yeah you are right i didn't bring any feedback ....but in all fairness that wasn't ''rude'' at all ...saying those ideas was meant to make a game fail, maybe it was unpleasant but rude?
And in other hands i prefer to go on official forums. RUclips is more a war of opinions...hehe
...maybe... just maybe BDO is more your style to be honest ?! no? What you describe leans more towards a PvP games than a PvE or PvX and from what i get (and i don't have to full picture of all your videos) You seem to wish that AoC should become more like other PvP games like (new world, BDO and that's not good long term gameplay for PvE/PvX mmo players (IMHO)
BDO/NW kind of game leans towards niche players. From what i get about MMos PvE, people hates drama and PvP games bring a lot of it, so guild disband server becomes empty and people leaves and that's often why they become more solo oriented.
With that said i don't know you ....and we haven't discuss real time so we have a full debate hehe... but thats what i feel from your video... but i could feel the wrong way...
So basicly we have different approach, ideas on how we feel about AoC... so that's why i said how -to make a mmo fail-.
geez that's way too long ... and FYI, english isn't my primary language so i hope it's still clear enough
@@thedaeron3877 great comment! Your English was fine. No; I don’t want aoc to be like new world or bdo because I already have those games available. Most ideologies I speak of and encourage in this video are already spoken in by the devs as their desires roughly. This is just an attempt to theorize how to make that a reality. Pve players defenitely dislike a lot of what you speak of but that’s not MY idea lol that’s AOC and its core design which is to conjur conflict