"Another problema is the SD card. Half of the time it just doesn't detect the file system. Sometimes it does." IS not a bug, is a freature to give more realism as loading from a cassette.
Baking is only needed if you solder this in an oven. Baking makes moisture that is dissolved in the caseing come out slowly, so it prevents it from become steam during soldering and popping the case open due to high vapor pressure.
Yes baking is to remove the moisture form parts (if exposed to humidity for to long) before using a solder bath, not solder in a oven. Since he’s using IC inserts and soldering by hand he would never need to worry about. Side note: Baking parts is a slow temperature rising process that takes a few days.
@@jetin335 at my work we only bake when we coat the boards. We have a cart and insulation boards around the cart and use a space heater and we bake for one hour. That hardens the corformal coating. I'm sure all the parts were baked at the build house. I have to test the boards before I coat the boards then after baking. Most people don't bake boards unless they are told to. If I had my way I would require all coated boards and repaired boards to be baked.
@@thisisaloadofbarnacles921 Noelle made the actual in game music. But Anders circled back and made his own songs, I guess just for fun or maybe they'll show up in some future version of the game. They're on YT, search "Attack of the Petscii Robots - Level 3: The Village"
There are some keyset profiles where the rows are all the same. That should give you more options, and if you go with SA profile, it'll have a very retro look too.
I'm pretty sure that you can get key caps that mimic the colors of the Vic or i even think you can get new Vic and C64 chips made for modern mechanical keyboards.
1:14 - I also dislike the sockets without the round notch, but learned that I could just push a dremel into the plastic and create a notch - preferably before soldering it to the board though :)
That thought occurred to me too. But when he held the two next to each other I noticed how much thinner the plastic “cross beam” was so if one were to cut into it (a noticeable notch otherwise why bother?) then you’ll maybe have a weak socket. IDK 🤷♂️ never tried it so maybe I should and report back. No. Too lazy. 😀
I just want to point out that I notice the upgraded production quality on all fronts. I'm glad to see you made it through that mess over the winter and came out shining at the other end. Keep up the great work!
Hopefully, it would also run on Atari with 64kb of RAM (on video, he uses Atari 130).. and then, if it will be NTSC or PAL version :P But looking forward to it :)
@@Freewareopoly Hopefully 40k so it fits on a fully upgraded Atari 800. Given there's a PET version, it could fit on all Atari systems. Depends on whether the decision was universal compatibility or richer feature set. Then again, it should be possible to choose between versions on load and have the best of both worlds. Not expecting that but it would be a fantastic feature
@@TheJeremyHolloway fully loaded Atari 800 has 3 16k expansion carts. So yeah, I was wrong about 40, but going beyond that means hacking the board with something like the ultimate 1mb module, which I wasn't including
Just wanted to pop in and say that while I've only recently found your channel, I am super happy that you have full captions on this video that is barely 4 hours old. So many videos still rely on auto captions and it is amazingly refreshing to find a channel that defies that. Thank you so much!
@@aprofondir that is true for example the cartridge slot is upwards not to the side however you could do a mod (as it is a kit) and actually make it work
I love the new studio layout - that works very well - and the wall coverings look so much better this way. Great job - can't wait to see more videos! And the X16 proto-3 board looks very pro-grade - another project I'm eagerly waiting for!
David, thank you so much for creating an Atari 8-bit port of your game! I'm excited to see it and possibly purchase it! Any extra Atari 8-bit content is greatly appreciated!
I’m excited! I still have my 800XL. I loved my 800XL. There are many others like it, but this one is mine. Oh and I’m that guy who had a 5200 and thought the controllers were mostly good. But doesn’t this mean that the game will have to be called Attack Of The ATASCII Robots?
I'm so happy to see so many people using these 8 bits. I spent a lot of hours typing on the VIC20, as many of us did, keying in software from magazines, trying to understand how they worked.. Sadly, I tossed mine out many years ago. Keep up the good work.
Typing in programs on a friends vic 20 was how my computer days started. (in fact I am still looking for one particular program from that time..Star Challenge). So tedious but it led to me owning a timex and c64's and many more. I don't have any of them anymore due to a flood but I have lots of great memories.
Probably due more to legal rights more than anything. I'm sure a super nerd can reengineer them but they'll probably get their balls sued to the wall by whoever holds the rights
Because current year!!! I seriously doubt the world wide yearly market for VIC chips is even a 1000 units. It just makes no sense unless it were entirely done by volunteers. It would require putting up all the money, up front to get the chips made. Some asshat somewhere owns the right to that chip and will sue the person to try to suck whatever money they can out of that ownership. So this volunteer who has to spend probably many hundreds of hours examining the original chip and then put up thousands of dollars for the run and then has to sell that stock to someone has also painted a target on their back from said copyright troll. Not to mention the fact that the Chinese firm who does the run will STEAL that chip and do a run themselves and flood the market with fakes. Not worth it.
@@tarstarkusz The rights owners (presumably a legal "successor in interest" to Commodore/MOS) could be paid to license production with or without access to historic design materials that might be in their possession. That said, the complete absence of on-chip software in these old chips might make it legal to reconfigure a commercial FPGA to do the job and put the FPGA config in a modern large ROM also containing the historic ROMs and bootstrapping code to provide soft switching of RAM blocks, clock speeds etc.
Oh wow, our first computer at home when I was a little kid was the VIC-20. It had the cassette tape drive and we played that Chopper game a lot! Thanks for the nostalgia!
@@71kaye Oh right, Mouse Trap! That was so fun too and who could forget the Space Invaders game! I remember there was a side-scroller game where you're driving a moon vehicle and it was so much fun! I think it was the VIC-20 but there's a chance it was the Commodore 64!
Weird that they did a kit that required an 'unobtainium' chip. I wouldn't mind it as a keyboard only, for feeding an emulator of some soft (VICE etc) rather than using a PC keyboard.
So glad there’s a new video! This channel has gotten me through the pandemic. Found the channel through a restoration channel when someone mentioned how 8-bit Guy does retrobright…I’m hooked on this channel!
There are two solutions to the keyboard. 1 - use a uniform profile such as DSA or XDA. 2 - Use blank keycaps and put stickers on them (or make your own dye sublimated ones). Also for non-uniform keycaps, I'd recommend either the SA or MT3 profile (though I don't know if either of those are available as blanks).
@@khoinguyenphamtrong4637 True, but they would give a more authentic feeling as they pretty much resemble what was on Commodore breadboxes. Especially SA which usually comes in glossy ABS.
Wow, watching you solder this together brings back memories from the mid-80s when I spent many nights in the ITT Technical Institute lab setting up fellow students' capacitors to charging up and explode in their toolkits. Good times.
Lack of a VIC replacement notwithstanding, I think I'd go in with some bodge wiring to get the S-Video pin out correct, and extend the DIPs to mount them on the case in a suitably cut slot. Hopefully some future case rev will allow that.
My thought just now would be to cut the traces and use jumper wires. Or, if you have the knowledge, you could go grab the layout files from the designers bitbucket and correct the pinning properly.
Taking a moment to express how delightful the quality of your channel is. The Smithsonian should engage you to curate this critical era in computer history. What an astonishing, comprehensive knowledge you possess. I grew up in the same time frame. A VIC-20 was my first computer as well. It truly is wonderful watching these episodes.
I like that you didn't dumb down the explanation and used the context and then explained the whole idea as it was meant to be seen. No fancy graphics or goofy stuff just the straight meat of the computer.
I still have my VIC 20, given to me Christmas 1981 when I was 11! I learnt to programme using it and have worked in IT for 32 years 😀 unfortunately it no longer boots up but I do have another which was booting last time I checked it. I also have a Sinclair ZX81 and Amstrad CPC 464.
I too have my VIC-20. You're just a smidge older than me. Got mine the same year but I was 7. To your point, went on to get an EE and CS degree and have been working in the industry since I was 17. I've also got a Sinclair 1000, a TRS-80 Model IV, and a Mac Plus (with 1 Meg of RAM and a 2400 baud modem... I was the man in high school!!!LOL) and countless machine I built between college and now. Such great times. What's amazing is that my ex wife is just six years younger than me and her coding style (also a CS major) was utterly different from mine. She never had to learn to program in a world of limited memory and everything was OO based by the tie she go to college. We solved the same problem one time many year ago and and he code had to have been five times the size of mine. But I give my VIC-20 (and learning Assembly and cutting my teeth on K&R) all the credit!!!LOL
You're not too stupid. You just don't have the opportunity to learn. A few years ago I hadn't programmed a computer since the Vic 20, then I got an arduino. Built a robot kit. Then I got a raspberry Pi. I screwed around with them for a few years mostly making network stuff, routers, TOR routers, an add blocker, a self hosted VPN , self hosted a website, all with directions from the internet ... stuff I thought I wasn't smart enough for. Lately I've gotten interested in INFOSEC. Yesterday I figured out how to get a back door in a new, updated Linux computer using a USB rubberducky. Today I would like to figure out how to do the same thing to a windows computer... now I'm not feeling smart. All you need is the opportunity, raspberry Pis are about $75 . Hack the Box is a freemium model, learn by doing thing. It would suck to do that from a phone but a library or school's computer lab is might be the answer. Good luck. Don't give up. Look, neither one of us is smart enough to design a car from the ground up but we are smart enough to turn the key and go for a drive . We know how to google up how to change the oil or a headlight. Not rocket science but we need to be shown how. It s not a matter of smart. It's a matter of finding the information and getting your hands dirty. Also don't give up when you get shitty directions off the internet. When you get an error just copy and paste that error code into the google box and you'll figure it out. If a fat old hippy living in Northern Canada can figure some of this stuff out so can you.
@@horusfalcon from what I get this is a single run with no intend for a next one. I think you can get the CAD and Gerber files somewhere and do it yourself tough.
Last time he tried bodge something to work, a rare but worthless IBM prototype blew up and everyone yelled at him for destroying something that was apparently valuable, despite it being worthless. Why do you think 5 of them ended up in boxes and eventually ended up in the warehouse of a long abandoned computer store?
Few things give me that simple joy of nostalgia and interest as listening to your podcast or watching these videos. Nice job as usual.. Very well done.
The very first computer I ever owned was a VIC-20. I had a cassette Drive for it and I spent hours typing in programs out of a magazine I subscribed to. Sold that computer to buy my first PC I ever owned. That computer came with a 10 MB HD and I was in heaven.
OH MY!!!! YOU MADE AN ATARI VERSION!!!! YAY! I was raising my hands up to the sky when I watched this tiny part of the video and this deserves a blog entry on my Website (right after "debian 11 published"). I LOVE YOU 8 BIT GUY!
It really is surprising how close it is to the original arcade game, especially considering that you're not only stepping down to a slower CPU (the original used a Z-80 running at 3MHz) with less RAM, but going from a vector-graphics display to a bitmapped raster display to boot. Probably one of the best Omega Race ports out there. Someone at Commodore put a *lot* of work into that one...
The vga requires 6 connections and then an audio is needed. Using the standard 3.5mm and 15-way D, there is not enough room at the present 5-pin DIN connector. So it is either and external piece with just those 2 connectors or expansion port. Or modifying the case, which I think ppl will not want to do.
Wow you're super talented with that iron i could never keep my hands so steady. Nice to see people still appreciate the old Vic 20, or should i say Vic 2020.
keep reading the comments, soon the solder police will show up saying how horrible he is, how he is doing this wrong and that wrong and OMFG he is so lucky he didn't break this part becasue this reason. the pedants never fail to appear when he breaks out his iron.
He's gotten facts about them wrong in at least one previous episode, so you might want to watch a video from someone who actually has a love of and history with the machines, instead.
It's so cool to hear your happiness when talking about to start assembling a new kit. :D When you showed the Petscii Robots game on the X16 I let out a "WOOOOW!" Looks amazing!! I'd like to buy one of your C64 versions but alas my drive developed the failure where it spins forever and never reads. That's the only cause I'm not longer using GEOS to this day. Also I saw you're going to publish an Atari version but the machine is a 130XE and I only have a 65XE and no disk drive. Will you ever make SD card versions? It'd be easier for me to get one of those modern SD card readers for the Atari or the C64. Also I smiled when you commented the Vic2020 keyboard feels amazing. I was like "Yeah! r/mk rulez!" Thanks for the episode! Peace.
All versions of the game also include a digital download so that you can put them on SD cards or whatever your drive emulator needs. The 65XE should be able to play the game just fine, but will require a disk drive or some sort of drive emulator.
@@The8BitGuy you could also go cartridge route even though it would be more expensive. Especially if ported to the 5200. AtariAge and Good Deal Games do sell 5200 cartridge games just in case you wanted to partner up...
Will the ram and charset be expandable. I'd like to be able to define glyphs for greek, cyrillic, and european languages. I'd also like to define up to 65,535 glyphs… Can the glyphs be 16x16 themselves?
Oh wow... just watched this. You brought back so many GREAT memories. I too first explored the world of PCs with a VIC-20 purchased from Montgomery Ward circa 1981/ 1982. Best Christmas ever. A few years later I'd graduate to a TRS-80 Model IV. Truly a great beginning... it was a pleasure growing up along side a burgeoning industry like that. We Gen X'ers had it the best and sadly didn't know it.LOL Great video bro.
Lol I noticed that too. I think it was a joke, though, because the song was called "Delicate" which perfectly describes the process of soldering. And the way the shot was set up, it definitely seemed framed as an under the radar joke.
You need to write a expanded memory salutation in machine language, why the solderings????? all compatible apps that support expanded mem will support it! Windows is just a shell over DOS, supporting all DOS mem configs.
Read the Intel and AMD software developers manuals. The IBM PC compatibles (x86 and AMD64) have a lot of quirks in the memory maps even in the modern age of UEFI instead of legacy BIOS.
The negatives/doublespeak on that moisture card are annoying as $#!%! It may not have mattered, but I think it was actually telling you that you DID need to bake them: "Bake parts if 10% is NOT blue..." {which is true, because it is pink, not blue} "...and 5% is pink." {which it also true}
That's how I read it. It seemed like it was describing two sets of parts, the level 2 parts that didn't need baking (because the first circle was blue, and the level 2A-5A parts that did need baking. Took me a couple reads to get that, though.
I'd really like to know the reason for the VIC screen ram changing position. Oversight? Price compromise? Weird logic design and backwards compatibility?
I feel like the designer really should of consulted users like yourself for help with the dip switch for example. It's kind of a no brainer to have easier access to those switches...
8Bit Guy you are truly the joy of my day. My day always gets a little better when I see you've uploaded a new video. Your videos have gotten better and the new studio is fantastic, keep up the amazing work.
My big Brother and I bugged our old man all the time for those gaming consoles back in the early 80's. One Day our father came home with brand new Vic20, Printer and Basic programing book, told us if we wanted to play video games you will have to program your own. My brother and I took our bikes to the book store in search of a more advanced book on Basic if that makes any sense, had to wait for the special order about 10 days. My Dad designed and built a sound proof cabinet for the Printer.
1:58 Yikes, that power jack is not going to last, especially if you're using it constantly for turning the system on and off. It's only got the main two pins holding it on. There's holes in the PCB for the sort of jack that has two extra large pins to make it more secure, yet it came with that cheap one? That's nuts.
@@unlokia On one of his other videos (forgot which) someone was complaining about how the power connector was horrible and a USB connector would last longer
Hello Dave. I am an aspiring software developer who is currently working towards a bunch of certifications in things such as MS Azure and all that yada yada. I just wanted to say thank you for your channel, cuz without it I'd never have had the confidence to try to change my career so dramatically in my early 30s. It was always a dream to work in IT, but I always ended up brushing it aside and stick to what I had before for the sake of security. But watching channels like yours, and particularity your channel, made me realize just how much I also want to spend my working days with the things I love rather than sticking to a job which I frankly didn't like one bit. So thank you for your great channel.
That moisture card shouldn't be there as it's mostly for SMD parts, moisture sensitive part are only a problem when you reflow slolder them as steam could come off the package and misaligned the chip off his footprint. For a socketed dip chip it's fine....
theres something wholesome about this, in the 80s we thought we'd have flying cars, robots.. but in reality we build 1980s pc's from kits and have synthwave.. this makes me happy
Regarding the X16, ever since you guys added expansion slots I've been curious. Why wasn't VERA moved to a slot? Is it to maintain a form factor that lends itself to making a C64 cartridge? Or is there some underlying issue like communication speed, voltage or something?
Also I believe that the VERA is basically required for the computer to function at this point, as opposed to being a default option one can switch out.
That VIC is really aesthetically pleasing. It was my first computer, but I have no nostalgic feeling to it whatsoever. But I love watching people make or use them who do.
I knew that progress for the X16 was chugging along nicely when I was able to try an emulator (I'm on a laptop with non-standard function keys so it's difficult to test)
![Twenty One Pilots - “The Line” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/E2Rj2gQAyPA/mqdefault.jpg)
![Hunxho - Ball Forever [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nki9ZTF9Uls/mqdefault.jpg)
"Another problema is the SD card. Half of the time it just doesn't detect the file system. Sometimes it does."
IS not a bug, is a freature to give more realism as loading from a cassette.
Need a new type of pencil then to rewind my SD card
Or floppy disc
Might be worth experimenting with sizes and brands some are better than others
or use the "apple excuse": you're typing it too fast
a paperclip might replace the pencil in this case
Baking is only needed if you solder this in an oven. Baking makes moisture that is dissolved in the caseing come out slowly, so it prevents it from become steam during soldering and popping the case open due to high vapor pressure.
Exactly, came to make the same comment and saw yours was already here.
Thank-you for explaining :-)
I solder in a dry sauna, same precaution?
Yes baking is to remove the moisture form parts (if exposed to humidity for to long) before using a solder bath, not solder in a oven.
Since he’s using IC inserts and soldering by hand he would never need to worry about.
Side note: Baking parts is a slow temperature rising process that takes a few days.
@@jetin335 at my work we only bake when we coat the boards. We have a cart and insulation boards around the cart and use a space heater and we bake for one hour. That hardens the corformal coating. I'm sure all the parts were baked at the build house. I have to test the boards before I coat the boards then after baking. Most people don't bake boards unless they are told to. If I had my way I would require all coated boards and repaired boards to be baked.
1:15 The assembly music on this is brilliant. Anders Jensen always makes great music but this particular song is just amazing.
Yes indeed!
I found the song, it's "Attack of the Petscii Robots - Level 3: The Village"
@@MrZedblade That means Anders did not make it, Noelle did!
@@thisisaloadofbarnacles921 Noelle made the actual in game music. But Anders circled back and made his own songs, I guess just for fun or maybe they'll show up in some future version of the game. They're on YT, search "Attack of the Petscii Robots - Level 3: The Village"
@@MrZedblade Oh neat, I didn't know that!
There are some keyset profiles where the rows are all the same. That should give you more options, and if you go with SA profile, it'll have a very retro look too.
I'm pretty sure that you can get key caps that mimic the colors of the Vic or i even think you can get new Vic and C64 chips made for modern mechanical keyboards.
I was gonna say this, but you beat me to it. :D
1:14 - I also dislike the sockets without the round notch, but learned that I could just push a dremel into the plastic and create a notch - preferably before soldering it to the board though :)
You can also use the iron itself to melt a notch if you don't mind the smell and getting gunk on your tip
You can use a marker pen as well.
That thought occurred to me too. But when he held the two next to each other I noticed how much thinner the plastic “cross beam” was so if one were to cut into it (a noticeable notch otherwise why bother?) then you’ll maybe have a weak socket. IDK 🤷♂️ never tried it so maybe I should and report back. No. Too lazy. 😀
@@nickpalance3622 Or make a notch in the other, thicker side?
red tape might help too ?
The music is a perfect match. Feels like a montage from Real Genius.
Anders Jensen makes some gooooood stuff
Agreed! It's "Attack of the Petscii Robots - Level 3: The Village" by Anders Jensen, can be found on youtube.
I can't hear montage music without thinking of Team America
Liked for the Real Genius reference.
Glad to see I'm not the only one who "watches" (listens) to RUclips while doing tedious tasks.
Same. I'll also have Taylor Swift in the background. It's catchy enough to work as background music but not enough to distract me from my project.
Same. I'm planting soybeans with a tractor right now.
@@Kylefassbinderful I thought it was quite ironic that the song he was listening to was”Delicate”, since he was doing some “delicate” work.
Heh, same. If it wasn’t for RUclips, I don’t think I’d ever do the ironing.
?
I just want to point out that I notice the upgraded production quality on all fronts. I'm glad to see you made it through that mess over the winter and came out shining at the other end. Keep up the great work!
"as well as the Atari version."
Sits bolt upright, sprays coffee on screen.
Goes looking for a pre-order button
now we need an nes version 😏
Hopefully, it would also run on Atari with 64kb of RAM (on video, he uses Atari 130).. and then, if it will be NTSC or PAL version :P But looking forward to it :)
@@Freewareopoly Hopefully 40k so it fits on a fully upgraded Atari 800. Given there's a PET version, it could fit on all Atari systems. Depends on whether the decision was universal compatibility or richer feature set.
Then again, it should be possible to choose between versions on load and have the best of both worlds. Not expecting that but it would be a fantastic feature
@@alexmcd378 Why hobble it at 40K when there's plenty of RAM upgrades for the Atari 400 - and the 800 - that'll take it to 64K and beyond?
@@TheJeremyHolloway fully loaded Atari 800 has 3 16k expansion carts. So yeah, I was wrong about 40, but going beyond that means hacking the board with something like the ultimate 1mb module, which I wasn't including
Just wanted to pop in and say that while I've only recently found your channel, I am super happy that you have full captions on this video that is barely 4 hours old. So many videos still rely on auto captions and it is amazingly refreshing to find a channel that defies that. Thank you so much!
This kit is great if you have a dead vic-20
Then you can swap motherboards and have an up to date motherboard that will probs last for years
I didn't even think of that!
@@cyberman7348 i don't have any vintage computer
Don't think you can swap motherboards as it's not gonna fit an original case nor support the ports
@@aprofondir that is true for example the cartridge slot is upwards not to the side however you could do a mod (as it is a kit) and actually make it work
@@nidulaperera You must be a Millennial if you think that's "vintage."
While I'm not a fan of the vic-20 (I was brought up with a C64 ;) ), I love to see new remakes and spin-offs coming out every now and then
I love the new studio layout - that works very well - and the wall coverings look so much better this way. Great job - can't wait to see more videos! And the X16 proto-3 board looks very pro-grade - another project I'm eagerly waiting for!
David, thank you so much for creating an Atari 8-bit port of your game! I'm excited to see it and possibly purchase it! Any extra Atari 8-bit content is greatly appreciated!
PETSCII Robots would probably be great to play on things like a Game Boy, yet more potential porting targets
@@TheSulross ....ahem, Atari Lynx.
Great to hear you’re working on the Atari 8bit version of your game. Shipping to Germany will probably make it unaffordable though. We‘ll see :)
Doesn’t Anders Jansen do the shipping for Europe?
ATARI !!!
Attack of the ATASCII Robots!
I’m excited! I still have my 800XL. I loved my 800XL. There are many others like it, but this one is mine. Oh and I’m that guy who had a 5200 and thought the controllers were mostly good.
But doesn’t this mean that the game will have to be called Attack Of The ATASCII Robots?
ahhh atari and pong....takes me back
I'm so happy to see so many people using these 8 bits. I spent a lot of hours typing on the VIC20, as many of us did, keying in software from magazines, trying to understand how they worked.. Sadly, I tossed mine out many years ago.
Keep up the good work.
Typing in programs on a friends vic 20 was how my computer days started. (in fact I am still looking for one particular program from that time..Star Challenge). So tedious but it led to me owning a timex and c64's and many more. I don't have any of them anymore due to a flood but I have lots of great memories.
It is amazing to see a Vic-20 with S-video! Thank you for the great video David!
I’m kinda amazed that in 2021, with all the retro market, there’s STILL no replacement for the VIC chip
Probably due more to legal rights more than anything. I'm sure a super nerd can reengineer them but they'll probably get their balls sued to the wall by whoever holds the rights
Probably copyright on the chip itself or software on it.
Even if that's no longer the case there is little incentive to start producing them now.
A person has created a FPGA Vic-2 replacement for the C64. But not for the original VIC yet.
Because current year!!!
I seriously doubt the world wide yearly market for VIC chips is even a 1000 units. It just makes no sense unless it were entirely done by volunteers. It would require putting up all the money, up front to get the chips made.
Some asshat somewhere owns the right to that chip and will sue the person to try to suck whatever money they can out of that ownership. So this volunteer who has to spend probably many hundreds of hours examining the original chip and then put up thousands of dollars for the run and then has to sell that stock to someone has also painted a target on their back from said copyright troll.
Not to mention the fact that the Chinese firm who does the run will STEAL that chip and do a run themselves and flood the market with fakes.
Not worth it.
@@tarstarkusz The rights owners (presumably a legal "successor in interest" to Commodore/MOS) could be paid to license production with or without access to historic design materials that might be in their possession. That said, the complete absence of on-chip software in these old chips might make it legal to reconfigure a commercial FPGA to do the job and put the FPGA config in a modern large ROM also containing the historic ROMs and bootstrapping code to provide soft switching of RAM blocks, clock speeds etc.
Oh wow, our first computer at home when I was a little kid was the VIC-20. It had the cassette tape drive and we played that Chopper game a lot! Thanks for the nostalgia!
Same!!!
@@RandomWire107 me too I played mouse trap and the vic version of space invaders to death
@@RandomWire107 Great memories!
@@71kaye Oh right, Mouse Trap! That was so fun too and who could forget the Space Invaders game!
I remember there was a side-scroller game where you're driving a moon vehicle and it was so much fun! I think it was the VIC-20 but there's a chance it was the Commodore 64!
@@ClassicGameSessions yes! had that game too. lunar lander. it didnt get harder so much as impossibly faster. lol
A new video from 8 bit guy is always a good video.
Weird that they did a kit that required an 'unobtainium' chip.
I wouldn't mind it as a keyboard only, for feeding an emulator of some soft (VICE etc) rather than using a PC keyboard.
Yeah it’s a bit clumsy to make a kit that depends on secondhand parts.
As said in the video, I guess the VIC-I isn't too hard to provide as a FPGA since there aren't any non-deterministic parts to it like the SID.
@@D0Samp Yeah the vic 20 would be infinitely easier to do one of these for than the 64. So many proprietary parts on the 64 and such.
@@maxxdahl6062 SID clones exist, though!
@@TheEmeraldMenOfficial Yeah but darn near everything, the CPU, PLA, CIA, VIC-2, etc are proprietary for the 64. Absolutely love the SID chip.
So glad there’s a new video! This channel has gotten me through the pandemic. Found the channel through a restoration channel when someone mentioned how 8-bit Guy does retrobright…I’m hooked on this channel!
There are two solutions to the keyboard. 1 - use a uniform profile such as DSA or XDA. 2 - Use blank keycaps and put stickers on them (or make your own dye sublimated ones).
Also for non-uniform keycaps, I'd recommend either the SA or MT3 profile (though I don't know if either of those are available as blanks).
The SA and MT3 are pretty expensive so using some knock off dsa can be easier
@@khoinguyenphamtrong4637 True, but they would give a more authentic feeling as they pretty much resemble what was on Commodore breadboxes. Especially SA which usually comes in glossy ABS.
How do make custom dye sublimated keys?
@@daemonspudguy Kinda like that: www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/gu1qmc/diy_how_to_make_custom_dye_sublimated_keycaps/
Wow, watching you solder this together brings back memories from the mid-80s when I spent many nights in the ITT Technical Institute lab setting up fellow students' capacitors to charging up and explode in their toolkits. Good times.
Lack of a VIC replacement notwithstanding, I think I'd go in with some bodge wiring to get the S-Video pin out correct, and extend the DIPs to mount them on the case in a suitably cut slot. Hopefully some future case rev will allow that.
That case looks suspiciously 3d-printed.
My thought just now would be to cut the traces and use jumper wires. Or, if you have the knowledge, you could go grab the layout files from the designers bitbucket and correct the pinning properly.
@@Grunchy005 and that's a problem why? it's easier and cheaper to 3d print cases.
Taking a moment to express how delightful the quality of your channel is. The Smithsonian should engage you to curate this critical era in computer history. What an astonishing, comprehensive knowledge you possess. I grew up in the same time frame. A VIC-20 was my first computer as well. It truly is wonderful watching these episodes.
Mount the dip switches for memory control on the underside of the board and perforate the case to reach them.
I like that you didn't dumb down the explanation and used the context and then explained the whole idea as it was meant to be seen. No fancy graphics or goofy stuff just the straight meat of the computer.
I still have my VIC 20, given to me Christmas 1981 when I was 11! I learnt to programme using it and have worked in IT for 32 years 😀 unfortunately it no longer boots up but I do have another which was booting last time I checked it. I also have a Sinclair ZX81 and Amstrad CPC 464.
I too have my VIC-20. You're just a smidge older than me. Got mine the same year but I was 7. To your point, went on to get an EE and CS degree and have been working in the industry since I was 17. I've also got a Sinclair 1000, a TRS-80 Model IV, and a Mac Plus (with 1 Meg of RAM and a 2400 baud modem... I was the man in high school!!!LOL) and countless machine I built between college and now. Such great times. What's amazing is that my ex wife is just six years younger than me and her coding style (also a CS major) was utterly different from mine. She never had to learn to program in a world of limited memory and everything was OO based by the tie she go to college. We solved the same problem one time many year ago and and he code had to have been five times the size of mine. But I give my VIC-20 (and learning Assembly and cutting my teeth on K&R) all the credit!!!LOL
4:18 I thought I was the only one loves blue clicky switches. I absolutely love the sound and feels
PEtsci robots looks amazing on the x16 definitely want to buy one now 😂
@cheese game patreon get early access
Totally
@cheese game magic! No I’m a Patreonmember of the channel hahah
I'm too stupid to build computers but it is really satisfying to watch someone else do it and explain how it works. Great video.
You're not too stupid.
You just don't have the opportunity to learn.
A few years ago I hadn't programmed a computer since the Vic 20, then I got an arduino.
Built a robot kit.
Then I got a raspberry Pi.
I screwed around with them for a few years mostly making network stuff, routers, TOR routers, an add blocker, a self hosted VPN , self hosted a website, all with directions from the internet ... stuff I thought I wasn't smart enough for.
Lately I've gotten interested in INFOSEC.
Yesterday I figured out how to get a back door in a new, updated Linux computer using a USB rubberducky.
Today I would like to figure out how to do the same thing to a windows computer... now I'm not feeling smart.
All you need is the opportunity, raspberry Pis are about $75 .
Hack the Box is a freemium model, learn by doing thing. It would suck to do that from a phone but a library or school's computer lab is might be the answer.
Good luck.
Don't give up.
Look, neither one of us is smart enough to design a car from the ground up but we are smart enough to turn the key and go for a drive . We know how to google up how to change the oil or a headlight. Not rocket science but we need to be shown how. It s not a matter of smart. It's a matter of finding the information and getting your hands dirty. Also don't give up when you get shitty directions off the internet. When you get an error just copy and paste that error code into the google box and you'll figure it out.
If a fat old hippy living in Northern Canada can figure some of this stuff out so can you.
Since the s-video signals work properly why not cut the incorrect traces and bodge wire it?
This. Seems like a simple enough fix that nobody will see in the end.
@@BastetFurry It's a shame to have to bodge something like this, though. Let's hope they fix in in the next board revision.
@@horusfalcon from what I get this is a single run with no intend for a next one. I think you can get the CAD and Gerber files somewhere and do it yourself tough.
@@horusfalcon Yeah paying money because someone fucked up a board revision instead of just fixing it and sending out the new lot...
Last time he tried bodge something to work, a rare but worthless IBM prototype blew up and everyone yelled at him for destroying something that was apparently valuable, despite it being worthless. Why do you think 5 of them ended up in boxes and eventually ended up in the warehouse of a long abandoned computer store?
Few things give me that simple joy of nostalgia and interest as listening to your podcast or watching these videos. Nice job as usual.. Very well done.
You can't just end on that Atari 8-bit bombshell! I've been waiting years for something like this!
Yt playing in the background so you don't go insane doing the same thing for hours on end. Best tip ever imo.
15:55 Hey, I know that guy filming there :-) Cool to see the build here, and great update on the X16!
1:24 I like that you have delicate playing as you are checking all the delicate connections.
Thanks for the great content man. You hit me in the feels with all this old hardware I used as a kid.
The very first computer I ever owned was a VIC-20. I had a cassette Drive for it and I spent hours typing in programs out of a magazine I subscribed to. Sold that computer to buy my first PC I ever owned. That computer came with a 10 MB HD and I was in heaven.
Ah, your continuity test beeping was the same tone as my battery backup unit and I got startled for a second. Fun video, thanks!
LMAO!
Your new studio is so cool. Really good idea with the little office and additional workspace!
I don't understand a single thing that he explains about circuits but still I love watching 😂👍
Just indian things🤣
I think it's something about computers
@@francistaylor1822 seems like it
Maybe get a personal trainer at your local gym? I hear you can do “circuit training” there. 🤣
@@nickpalance3622 I'll think about it 😂😂
OH MY!!!! YOU MADE AN ATARI VERSION!!!! YAY! I was raising my hands up to the sky when I watched this tiny part of the video and this deserves a blog entry on my Website (right after "debian 11 published"). I LOVE YOU 8 BIT GUY!
Wow. Omega Race on the Vic-20 is a really solid port!
I got no memory of how many hours of my childhood i spend playing omega race on my vic 20
Omega Race is the only VIC-20 cartridge I own.
It really is surprising how close it is to the original arcade game, especially considering that you're not only stepping down to a slower CPU (the original used a Z-80 running at 3MHz) with less RAM, but going from a vector-graphics display to a bitmapped raster display to boot. Probably one of the best Omega Race ports out there. Someone at Commodore put a *lot* of work into that one...
Really cool to see a "modern" vintage working computer 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
That printed keyboard case is HIDEOUS! great build tho!
@@georg6876 it could do with being crushed
Cool computer kit!
Also thanks for the news on the Commander X16 and Petscii Robots!
Wow the x16 looks amazing! Can't wait for it :D
The new Workspace is absolutely stunning. Great video as always.
I have designed such a device, an FPGA based VGA replacement for the VIC. In its present incarnation, it hooks in at the expander port. 😎
The vga requires 6 connections and then an audio is needed. Using the standard 3.5mm and 15-way D, there is not enough room at the present 5-pin DIN connector. So it is either and external piece with just those 2 connectors or expansion port. Or modifying the case, which I think ppl will not want to do.
Its amazing how far retro recreations have come. BTW Nice soldering, its good to see someone that knows what they are doing!
Wow you're super talented with that iron i could never keep my hands so steady. Nice to see people still appreciate the old Vic 20, or should i say Vic 2020.
Vic 20 21st Century edition
keep reading the comments, soon the solder police will show up saying how horrible he is, how he is doing this wrong and that wrong and OMFG he is so lucky he didn't break this part becasue this reason. the pedants never fail to appear when he breaks out his iron.
Or just talented, and tone down the hyperbolic “super super” 🤣
@@TheSulross The Vic-21? :P
These videos of kit are always fun. I love seeing something new being put together, in order to make it play something that is 40 years old.
Loved the idea of playing your petscii robots game on my Atari computers looking forward to see the video about that!
You need content, RUclips job too?
Just upload it!
Good to see you got the house repaired after the flood.
Please do a video on the Atari computers themselves. They're strange systems alright.
LOVE the Atari 8-bit computers! Very powerful, but veeery quirky.
He's gotten facts about them wrong in at least one previous episode, so you might want to watch a video from someone who actually has a love of and history with the machines, instead.
Atari 8-bit systems aren't quirky or strange. They're very straightforward to understand.
@@RetroDawn were those facts wrong or were they just MORE FACTS??
Yay another 8BitGuy video! Glad to see your studio finished and a brand new fresh video!
It's so cool to hear your happiness when talking about to start assembling a new kit. :D
When you showed the Petscii Robots game on the X16 I let out a "WOOOOW!" Looks amazing!! I'd like to buy one of your C64 versions but alas my drive developed the failure where it spins forever and never reads. That's the only cause I'm not longer using GEOS to this day. Also I saw you're going to publish an Atari version but the machine is a 130XE and I only have a 65XE and no disk drive. Will you ever make SD card versions? It'd be easier for me to get one of those modern SD card readers for the Atari or the C64.
Also I smiled when you commented the Vic2020 keyboard feels amazing. I was like "Yeah! r/mk rulez!"
Thanks for the episode! Peace.
All versions of the game also include a digital download so that you can put them on SD cards or whatever your drive emulator needs. The 65XE should be able to play the game just fine, but will require a disk drive or some sort of drive emulator.
@@The8BitGuy you could also go cartridge route even though it would be more expensive. Especially if ported to the 5200. AtariAge and Good Deal Games do sell 5200 cartridge games just in case you wanted to partner up...
Really like the new background music!
Will the ram and charset be expandable. I'd like to be able to define glyphs for greek, cyrillic, and european languages. I'd also like to define up to 65,535 glyphs…
Can the glyphs be 16x16 themselves?
a full kanji set. good thats an awful lot of characters...
Get a modern computer you simpleton
Oh gee, @@BrassMtn why didn't WE think of that?? 🤦♂️
@@BrassMtn Wait, you're telling me that The 8-Bit Guy doesn't cover modern 64-bit technology?
are you talking about the X16 or the VIC-20?
Amazing. I always feel so small and insignificant when watching your videos, yet filled with a great feeling of nostalgia and amazement 😃
There is one song that is used repeatedly through here and every time it comes on I have flashback of my cell phone ringing about 10 years ago.
I don't collect vintage electronics and I would never try to build a computer like this, but I love watching you work with all this cool stuff.
its a shame this isn't being sold as a flat pack kit
@@alfa-psi this is why you don't have friends
yeah i wonna buy one.
This ain’t IKEA 😛
@@unlokia would be good though
Oh wow... just watched this. You brought back so many GREAT memories. I too first explored the world of PCs with a VIC-20 purchased from Montgomery Ward circa 1981/ 1982. Best Christmas ever. A few years later I'd graduate to a TRS-80 Model IV. Truly a great beginning... it was a pleasure growing up along side a burgeoning industry like that. We Gen X'ers had it the best and sadly didn't know it.LOL Great video bro.
_Building a VIC-20_ : Yeah, seems interesting
_and X16 Update_ : Now this got way more interesting real quick
excellent camera work. love the close up shots, it's like I was soldering
Can't wait for the commander x16
First time watching 8-Bit Guy on a proper hi-fi system. It's worth it!
I love that you listen to Taylor Swift while you solder.
sus.
Lol I noticed that too. I think it was a joke, though, because the song was called "Delicate" which perfectly describes the process of soldering. And the way the shot was set up, it definitely seemed framed as an under the radar joke.
@@jafizzle95 Yup. Very good background gag if that was indeed the intent.
It's always such a treat when you upload a new video :)
Hope everything's been well up in Texas!
“One of the few times adding more ram will break compatibility”
*Laughs in Windows 95*
You need to write a expanded memory salutation in machine language, why the solderings?????
all compatible apps that support expanded mem will support it!
Windows is just a shell over DOS, supporting all DOS mem configs.
Read the Intel and AMD software developers manuals.
The IBM PC compatibles (x86 and AMD64) have a lot of quirks in the memory maps even in the modern age of UEFI instead of legacy BIOS.
@@johngangemi1361 i was more talking about the fact that having greater than about a half gig on 95 causes it to fail to boot
@@aidanbrooks771 oh okay.
"Nobody will ever need more than 64 megabytes of RAM." - Bill Gates
I always look forward to your new videos. Thanks for another excellent episode.
The negatives/doublespeak on that moisture card are annoying as $#!%! It may not have mattered, but I think it was actually telling you that you DID need to bake them: "Bake parts if 10% is NOT blue..." {which is true, because it is pink, not blue} "...and 5% is pink." {which it also true}
That's how I read it. It seemed like it was describing two sets of parts, the level 2 parts that didn't need baking (because the first circle was blue, and the level 2A-5A parts that did need baking. Took me a couple reads to get that, though.
It's great there are still ppl like you keeping old tech alive!
I'm super excited about Petscii robots for Atari, it'll be the first new Atari game I've bought for a really long time...
you are aware of the AtariAge website, right?
Awesome new studio, thanks for all the great content over the years!
I'd really like to know the reason for the VIC screen ram changing position. Oversight? Price compromise? Weird logic design and backwards compatibility?
The music on this episode is amazing!
Studio lighting looking great in this episode! :D
All those modded vic 20s you saw at that music warehouse need to be saved so they can salvage those chips.
I feel like the designer really should of consulted users like yourself for help with the dip switch for example. It's kind of a no brainer to have easier access to those switches...
Should *_have_* , my friend. I’m not being cocky and a know it all, I hope you see I’m gently correcting you in good spirits.
8Bit Guy you are truly the joy of my day. My day always gets a little better when I see you've uploaded a new video. Your videos have gotten better and the new studio is fantastic, keep up the amazing work.
if everyone that watched this tried to acquire and build this kit, imagine the squeeze it would put on the ebay supply of VIC chips
"Why have scalpers gotten so into the VIC-20?"
My big Brother and I bugged our old man all the time for those gaming consoles back in the early 80's. One Day our father came home with brand new Vic20, Printer and Basic programing book, told us if we wanted to play video games you will have to program your own. My brother and I took our bikes to the book store in search of a more advanced book on Basic if that makes any sense, had to wait for the special order about 10 days. My Dad designed and built a sound proof cabinet for the Printer.
1:58 Yikes, that power jack is not going to last, especially if you're using it constantly for turning the system on and off. It's only got the main two pins holding it on. There's holes in the PCB for the sort of jack that has two extra large pins to make it more secure, yet it came with that cheap one? That's nuts.
I’m still waiting for some kid to wander along and complain _”But it hasn’t got USB C … fail!!”_ etc 🤦♂️🤦♂️
@@unlokia On one of his other videos (forgot which) someone was complaining about how the power connector was horrible and a USB connector would last longer
Hello Dave. I am an aspiring software developer who is currently working towards a bunch of certifications in things such as MS Azure and all that yada yada.
I just wanted to say thank you for your channel, cuz without it I'd never have had the confidence to try to change my career so dramatically in my early 30s.
It was always a dream to work in IT, but I always ended up brushing it aside and stick to what I had before for the sake of security.
But watching channels like yours, and particularity your channel, made me realize just how much I also want to spend my working days with the things I love rather than
sticking to a job which I frankly didn't like one bit.
So thank you for your great channel.
That moisture card shouldn't be there as it's mostly for SMD parts, moisture sensitive part are only a problem when you reflow slolder them as steam could come off the package and misaligned the chip off his footprint. For a socketed dip chip it's fine....
theres something wholesome about this, in the 80s we thought we'd have flying cars, robots..
but in reality we build 1980s pc's from kits and have synthwave..
this makes me happy
OMG, finally an Atari version of one of your games! Would love to see more Atari content on your channel!
Yeah! Atari FTW!
The construction/ soldering montage is amazing
So I’m skipping basically my chores to watch this amazing video
The music from the Jensen guy is just great.
Regarding the X16, ever since you guys added expansion slots I've been curious. Why wasn't VERA moved to a slot? Is it to maintain a form factor that lends itself to making a C64 cartridge? Or is there some underlying issue like communication speed, voltage or something?
I don't speak for the project but I think they wanted it to fit within the ATX IO shield area and be as compact as possible.
Also I believe that the VERA is basically required for the computer to function at this point, as opposed to being a default option one can switch out.
That VIC is really aesthetically pleasing.
It was my first computer, but I have no nostalgic feeling to it whatsoever. But I love watching people make or use them who do.
Never knew that they still made 6502 CPUs!
Technically a 65C02, the modern day CMOS version which isn't entirely drop-in compatible.
Kit looks superb nicely built sir i have never owned or used a vic 20 one i missed out on .x16 is looking great nice work .
I knew that progress for the X16 was chugging along nicely when I was able to try an emulator (I'm on a laptop with non-standard function keys so it's difficult to test)
Ah discrete components and hand soldering - that brings back memories !