Learned alot from this vid that i didn't expect to. Cant believe how much plastic dust the water captures. Also, cutting nubs while keeping direction in mind. Thanks citrus, subbed
@SHAHMI ISKANDAR BIN SHAMSUL - Hey, no worries. Okay so first, you'll want to know that higher-end (more expensive) nippers tend to have one blunt side (right) and one sharp side (left) when looking at them from the front. This allows for cleaner cutting and reduced plastic stress ok now, notice how he's cutting the nub so that the direction of the sharp side (which remember, is on the left side of the nippers) is moving towards the edge of the plastic on that particular part. This means the sharp left-side of the cutter is moving towards the right as it cuts, away from the center of this whole part. This way, it reduces the chances of you stressing the plastic on a visible surface, and if there is stress, it's less noticable because its on the absolute edge of the part. Then youll want to finish by carefully using a hobby knife (following the same rules above, meaning cutting towards the edge of the part) to completely remove the rest of the nub. Hope that helps!
You just saved me a lot of money! Just starting the hobby, having built the MG Freedom 2.0 and the HG Immortal Justice. I haven’t been too precise with my nub removal and wanted to take it next level without breaking the bank and with good results
That's refreshing! Kinda always wanted to see people to roast such business dealers who tries to earn for little effort from folks. And you did it. In style! Was cool to see your videos again mate.
When I found out about this raser product, I just laughed my ass off considering that I've been using those exact same tools that I bought for a significantly cheaper price. Big respect for posting this vid! 👍👍👍
I can attest to the effectiveness of the glass buffer/nano nail file. I even used this file on my clear kits and for under $1 you can get a similar effect to those of the GP filea
I decided to try the Dspiae SF-20 and a very small, generic glass file I found on the makeup corner of a convenience store because of this video. I used them both dry and wet just to see if there's any difference. The Dspiae gets clogged much quicker than the generic which I suspect is because of the finer grit, and dipping it in water doesn't seem to change its effectiveness. But the generic file only takes 3-4 more passes to achieve the same result as the SF-20 while also being able to reach more nooks and crannies because it's much smaller, and in addition, if I tap it lightly against the cup, way more of the accumulated dust come off of the file, which I again suspect is because it has a coarser grit. To sum it up, it's 5-6 passes vs 8-9 per nub but the generic file is more practical due to its small size and ease of cleaning. And the plastic I used the two files on was I think almost entirely ABS (4 sets of those Bandai Shokugan ones).
i just came across your video. thank you so much learned a lot. Unfortunately i already ordered my gun primer file. the water idea is brilliant. thanks again
Very nice. I alternate sandpaper sticks and wet sanding. The only difference is that I don't get the sheen back even if I wetsand at 2500 grit since it's been scratched from 600 and up. The glass file is interesting
your video is so good! i searched for bunch of videos before this, and you just convince me. glad i subscribed. please keep making this kind of tutorial, its very informative especially beginners like me.
Thank you for posting this video Citrus. Damn. The tools you need in order to make your gunpla look clean are really expensive. Now I just need to spend 3 dollars (150php) to make my gunpla look more clean. Thank you so much ❤️
I usually just skip the numb removal part because you end up spending minutes on just one piece. Now i still want my parts too look good and so i bought the generic nail filer, but i end up still spending more time with them, because they are slow, and too big. So from what i heard is that the raser is a lot faster and easy to work with.
but if the nail files make me go back and forth im gonna start rounding corners. amazon seems to differentiate shiners and files, but the vendors tend to use both terms to maximize hits. I would love to see which files cut fastest. and they seem to change products in 6-12 months. the newest feet files seem to have the coarsest patterns. the coarsest nail file I've seen is 3/4 in. wide too. narrower is better.
youtube is awesome. Yesterday I saw a review of that expensive kit and I though "What? A glass file? How is it possible" And today I see this video! Thank you Citrus. I hope to find this nail glass file. It' the first time in my life that I found a file so smooth that I have to make the surface less smooth...usually is the opposite!! :P
.....Well, better late then never amiright? Thanks for the tip Citrus I'll be sure to use that advice for my next kits! Also I'm gonna try and custom paint some kits so are rustoleum spray cans a good idea to use?
Hello I tried out a glass buffer, if Im going to flat coat the kit anyway, can I skip the sponge step altogether? Honestly I really like the glass buffer as a sanding or file alternative because of the fact that you can wet it and it seems like a good way to just flatten a nub without switching grits at all. I love the recommendation in this video despite not really knowing about that wack ass scam lol
Huh, I just used sanding sticks of different grits to deal with nubs. Thanks for the hot tip man. I wonder if those glass file/buffer sticks are sold in cosmetic stores? Might go check it out later
Well, I'll be-!! ...Sonovva-! ....Danggit!! DUDE! U just turnd the Gunpla Universe Suppliers on their heads-!! And saved ALL OF US a LOT of MONEY!! Just like n Creation - the best Engineering & Design & processes r the SIMPLEST ONES-!! Thx so much!
Agree 50/50, this is the godhand debate all over again. Yes they are super overpriced but you can’t completely write them off just because they’re expensive. Many who use them will swear by them just like godhands Would rather see a comparison video
I've been using a regular nano file and the dspiae siren and both are equally good and both are cheaper than the gunprimer -- however, I did not have a good experience with the melamine sponge, since it would leave scratches
The melamine sponge shouldn't scratch unless there particles left on the surface while the sponge was used. The resultant surface should be evenly matte.
Single blade cuts in one direction, which gives you more stability and control, resulting in a cleaner cut. Double blade pinches the gate in the middle, which can damage the surrounding plastic more and needs more clean up.
It is kinda odd I started building gunpla kits last year but have always built model kits or miniatures for tabletop games I use the same tools and the same method but I never cut to a nub then finish it via filing i just cut right to the model and use an exacto knife if needed to smoth out and get great results. Why do most gunpla builders use this method?
I used to shave down a knife as well, but I was getting frustrated with my own inconsistent results, so I started experimenting with other methods. Sanding is probably more popular in gunpla because many people like to leave their kits unpainted (like me), so preserving the plastic surface is important.
nice to see an alternative about this. Seems like the other youtubers got sponsored and trying to sell the most expensive glas file to us poor modelers
It will wear out eventually. The construct looks like metal pips adhered to the glass surface. How fast it wears out depends on how aggressively you use it.
i have both, gunprimer's is better. this finish is a bit better, its a lot more comfortable in my hand, i guess cuz of the curved side and it cleans better. like i primed kits then use both to clean up imperfections, and the cheap one got "clogged" faster and was kinda a pain to clean out. granted i used a brush and didn't think to use water like you did
Great. I saw the advertisement of that stuff on a hobby magazine. Now I know it's a scam. Thanks. Looking forward to the new Astraea type F even though I know full well that it's not coming that soon :)
I did a review on this on the gunpla reddit. The only thing that's worth buying from them are the Balancer sponges, 3 for $6 USD. Just buy the glass nail file for cheap on amazon. Then you'll have a raser kit for 35$ cheaper lol
@@citrusjuicebox I've used regular nail buffing blocks. They didn't achieve the same matte/semi-gloss/gloss look the way the Balancer did. Which is why in my opinion, that product alone is worth.
Thanks a lot! It is much appreciated. just your video and it was timely and I'd say it absolutely is a money saver! I saw the set from Gunprimer but I found the price to be so ridiculous. I will try to look for the glass file in my local Daiso store or Amazon.
They also sell something called VOID... ooooh edgy name! .... for $250 USD plus shipping! It’s nothing more than a dust extractor. Professional nail salons use dust extractors that work just as well, if not better, at a fraction of the price. The lesson learn is, do your research, know what tools are truly worth it folks. Spend good money on good tools. Avoid shitty or pointless products and use that money to buy kits instead.
Me: Originally knows about gunprimer and looks at the price and with the conversion rate to CAD, simply laughs at the absurd price and shipping. Also me: Watches this, realizes the waste of money that this is and goes to local pharmacy to buy a glass file
Ahh, the gunprimer raser... Those who own one swear by it, and those who think $45 for a $1 tool is beyond absurd will never even think to touch it. Personally i use dspiae's siren. They're like a good compromise at $5. The water trick works really well with it.
There's snake oil in every hobby, and I'm pretty disappointed it hit gunpla as well. FWIW buying a slightly nicer one ($5 range, like you said) is probably worth it. Some of the cheaper ones will wear out quickly, and it's just not worth the hassle to replace them, especially if you build a lot.
Some of their products are pretty pointless too. They sell a product called Joint Guard which is, and I am not kidding, a piece of precut tape. That’s it folks. Nothing special to see here. They use it to tighten joints... something you can cut and do yourself, or better yet, do what modelers have been doing effectively and cheap for over 40 years and use a bit of CA or nail polish on the peg, let dry... viola! tight joints. What GP going to sell next? Small precut sand sponge squares for 20 bucks?
So, someone somewhere actually spent $45 to retain the plastic looks of their gunpla and by doing so making their gunpla looks like a toy instead of spending the same amount of money to buy some paints or at least top coat to make their gunpla looks more realistic? I'm not against people who prefer to not paint or topcoat their gunpla but it baffles me if someone actually spend $45 just to keep that plastic look
@@JangoTheBlueFox or you can just use sanding stick, sanding paper, or sanding sponge. Even the sanding paper that tamiya made, which is quite expensive imo is much cheaper than this. And after painting them or even just using top coat on them, the mark left by sanding won't be visible anymore
The gunprimer and infini models of glass files are far superior to the Amazon no name brands you truly do get what you pay for. The cheap ones work. But the result is far from as good as from the other two.
*_Modern problems require modern solutions._*
Yikes, I thought you were gonna say like $15 or something but 45 bucks is absolutely ridiculous.
I would literally rather eat $45.
@@citrusjuicebox sounds like a great idea for your next video
Respect for doing this!
Learned alot from this vid that i didn't expect to. Cant believe how much plastic dust the water captures. Also, cutting nubs while keeping direction in mind. Thanks citrus, subbed
@SHAHMI ISKANDAR BIN SHAMSUL - Hey, no worries. Okay so first, you'll want to know that higher-end (more expensive) nippers tend to have one blunt side (right) and one sharp side (left) when looking at them from the front. This allows for cleaner cutting and reduced plastic stress
ok now, notice how he's cutting the nub so that the direction of the sharp side (which remember, is on the left side of the nippers) is moving towards the edge of the plastic on that particular part. This means the sharp left-side of the cutter is moving towards the right as it cuts, away from the center of this whole part. This way, it reduces the chances of you stressing the plastic on a visible surface, and if there is stress, it's less noticable because its on the absolute edge of the part.
Then youll want to finish by carefully using a hobby knife (following the same rules above, meaning cutting towards the edge of the part) to completely remove the rest of the nub.
Hope that helps!
FYI tape or like masking tape works really well for cleaning a file
I had a similar suspicion myself about being able to find a generic version of this for a fraction of the price, appreciate you doing the legwork!
You just saved me a lot of money! Just starting the hobby, having built the MG Freedom 2.0 and the HG Immortal Justice. I haven’t been too precise with my nub removal and wanted to take it next level without breaking the bank and with good results
That's refreshing! Kinda always wanted to see people to roast such business dealers who tries to earn for little effort from folks. And you did it. In style! Was cool to see your videos again mate.
Was going to buy a set after seeing zakuaurelius's vid. Glad i saw this first.
When I found out about this raser product, I just laughed my ass off considering that I've been using those exact same tools that I bought for a significantly cheaper price. Big respect for posting this vid! 👍👍👍
I can attest to the effectiveness of the glass buffer/nano nail file. I even used this file on my clear kits and for under $1 you can get a similar effect to those of the GP filea
Citrus you are awesome. Glad you spoke out about this.
Damn, good work Citrus! I didn't know glass files existed!
Same here thanks to him bc i was about to buy the gunprimer one🤣😂
I decided to try the Dspiae SF-20 and a very small, generic glass file I found on the makeup corner of a convenience store because of this video.
I used them both dry and wet just to see if there's any difference. The Dspiae gets clogged much quicker than the generic which I suspect is because of the finer grit, and dipping it in water doesn't seem to change its effectiveness. But the generic file only takes 3-4 more passes to achieve the same result as the SF-20 while also being able to reach more nooks and crannies because it's much smaller, and in addition, if I tap it lightly against the cup, way more of the accumulated dust come off of the file, which I again suspect is because it has a coarser grit.
To sum it up, it's 5-6 passes vs 8-9 per nub but the generic file is more practical due to its small size and ease of cleaning. And the plastic I used the two files on was I think almost entirely ABS (4 sets of those Bandai Shokugan ones).
Thank you for this video. I bought the file and mr clean erasers. These two work so well I had to share on reddit.
i just came across your video. thank you so much learned a lot. Unfortunately i already ordered my gun primer file. the water idea is brilliant. thanks again
Very nice. I alternate sandpaper sticks and wet sanding. The only difference is that I don't get the sheen back even if I wetsand at 2500 grit since it's been scratched from 600 and up. The glass file is interesting
your video is so good! i searched for bunch of videos before this, and you just convince me. glad i subscribed. please keep making this kind of tutorial, its very informative especially beginners like me.
Always use nail buffer before, maybe i should try glass nail buffer for the next build
I'm super impressed with that result, suppose I ought to give it a try myself! Thanks for the great vid, a perfect how-to
Thank you for posting this video Citrus. Damn. The tools you need in order to make your gunpla look clean are really expensive. Now I just need to spend 3 dollars (150php) to make my gunpla look more clean. Thank you so much ❤️
I’ve used both and there is a difference... you should really do a comparison video.
Thanks so much I just got into gunpla . This is going to help me take my kits to the next level
Awesome! I just bought 4 buffers using your link. Thank you!
I barely started gunpla! I needed to know this! Thanks so much. :D
Citrus! I think you should do more gunpla hack/tips or budget way to get things done, because cheapskate gunpla builder do exist such as me 😂
Damn, just one trip to cvs and I got everything under 5 usd thx citrus!
By the way I used this for years..and the result so amazing than usual files..
So clean, so clear too
I usually just skip the numb removal part because you end up spending minutes on just one piece. Now i still want my parts too look good and so i bought the generic nail filer, but i end up still spending more time with them, because they are slow, and too big. So from what i heard is that the raser is a lot faster and easy to work with.
but if the nail files make me go back and forth im gonna start rounding corners. amazon seems to differentiate shiners and files, but the vendors tend to use both terms to maximize hits. I would love to see which files cut fastest. and they seem to change products in 6-12 months. the newest feet files seem to have the coarsest patterns. the coarsest nail file I've seen is 3/4 in. wide too. narrower is better.
Do you have any guides on how to hand paint gunplas including the joints?
LMAO, I've been saying this to hobbyists for aaaages. GOOD man for finally showing people how insane this extortion is.
Thanks a lot! I just bought a generic glass nail file/buffer for less than $5
Just bought some of these files on Amazon! Thanks for the video, also, love the rabbits =) Ive got two, myself.
youtube is awesome. Yesterday I saw a review of that expensive kit and I though "What? A glass file? How is it possible"
And today I see this video! Thank you Citrus.
I hope to find this nail glass file. It' the first time in my life that I found a file so smooth that I have to make the surface less smooth...usually is the opposite!! :P
Wow, this is a cool technique!
Can this technique work for seam removals?
Thank you so much for this valuable tip!
Thank you for this nice tutorial
this video was enlightening, I buy 3 for 5 € !
Great tip for using water
.....Well, better late then never amiright? Thanks for the tip Citrus I'll be sure to use that advice for my next kits!
Also I'm gonna try and custom paint some kits so are rustoleum spray cans a good idea to use?
Thanks! I'm not sure. I haven't tried Rustoleum colored paints before. The finish probably won't be very fine.
@@citrusjuicebox I see, thanks for the input! Are there any sprays + topcoats that you'd recommend?
@@ZonoYT Rust-Oleum matte clear is pretty good topcoat for the price. Gloss isn't as good.
@@citrusjuicebox awesome, thanks man
Any substitutes for the "recovery" cloth tool for a gloss finish?
Any number of buffing cloths will work. Your local hardware store probably offers some.
Hello I tried out a glass buffer, if Im going to flat coat the kit anyway, can I skip the sponge step altogether?
Honestly I really like the glass buffer as a sanding or file alternative because of the fact that you can wet it and it seems like a good way to just flatten a nub without switching grits at all.
I love the recommendation in this video despite not really knowing about that wack ass scam lol
Skipping the sponge step is probably okay.
Citrus, please do review some 1/144 RG/HG.. please???
always love your vids man, I also just knew about this
what is your mat called
Huh, I just used sanding sticks of different grits to deal with nubs. Thanks for the hot tip man. I wonder if those glass file/buffer sticks are sold in cosmetic stores? Might go check it out later
Yes, but not all cosmetic stores may have it, or for very cheap. I love buying buffing sponges in bulk though.
Would you recommend this instead of sandpapers?
Well, I'll be-!! ...Sonovva-! ....Danggit!! DUDE! U just turnd the Gunpla Universe Suppliers on their heads-!! And saved ALL OF US a LOT of MONEY!! Just like n Creation - the best Engineering & Design & processes r the SIMPLEST ONES-!! Thx so much!
damm actually unavailable :(, or just for me.. im from mexico, any other option? plisss
Search for "glass nail buffer" on any marketplace and you should be able to find some
Not all hero’s wear capes!
Agree 50/50, this is the godhand debate all over again. Yes they are super overpriced but you can’t completely write them off just because they’re expensive. Many who use them will swear by them just like godhands
Would rather see a comparison video
I've been using a regular nano file and the dspiae siren and both are equally good and both are cheaper than the gunprimer -- however, I did not have a good experience with the melamine sponge, since it would leave scratches
The melamine sponge shouldn't scratch unless there particles left on the surface while the sponge was used. The resultant surface should be evenly matte.
@@citrusjuicebox it was a brand new sponge
what grit is that sponge?
does this method work greatly on curved surface too, by sanding on different angles based on the curved surface?
Yes.
Wish I saw this before I ordered the gate remover set lol
5:41 Your rabbit is doing so well after that medical issue. Is there brick and mortar shops that sell the Glass Nail Buffer?
Why do you recommend single blade nippers over double blade ones?
Also, unfortunately the link for the buffer is out of stock.
It give less white stressmark than double blade one
Single blade cuts in one direction, which gives you more stability and control, resulting in a cleaner cut. Double blade pinches the gate in the middle, which can damage the surrounding plastic more and needs more clean up.
Worth to subscribe
It is kinda odd I started building gunpla kits last year but have always built model kits or miniatures for tabletop games I use the same tools and the same method but I never cut to a nub then finish it via filing i just cut right to the model and use an exacto knife if needed to smoth out and get great results. Why do most gunpla builders use this method?
I used to shave down a knife as well, but I was getting frustrated with my own inconsistent results, so I started experimenting with other methods. Sanding is probably more popular in gunpla because many people like to leave their kits unpainted (like me), so preserving the plastic surface is important.
Any idea what the approximate grit strength is?
I want to say 800, but I can't be sure
thanks citruss!!!
nice to see an alternative about this. Seems like the other youtubers got sponsored and trying to sell the most expensive glas file to us poor modelers
I bought two of those recently on eBay for 99 cents each shipped.
Nano glass file existed? I think I will stick to sanding paper and sponge
How long does it last? Do they wear out like the sanding sticks?
It will wear out eventually. The construct looks like metal pips adhered to the glass surface. How fast it wears out depends on how aggressively you use it.
thanks a lot for the info
Good alternatives. By the way: When's the HGUC Zeta Plus review coming?
Eventually.
i have both, gunprimer's is better. this finish is a bit better, its a lot more comfortable in my hand, i guess cuz of the curved side and it cleans better. like i primed kits then use both to clean up imperfections, and the cheap one got "clogged" faster and was kinda a pain to clean out. granted i used a brush and didn't think to use water like you did
Just a couple of days ago I was thinking about mr. Scissors ✂️ 🐰
Thanks citrus for this info... :)
Great. I saw the advertisement of that stuff on a hobby magazine. Now I know it's a scam. Thanks.
Looking forward to the new Astraea type F even though I know full well that it's not coming that soon :)
Lol, nano glass file go for around half a dollar in a nail care shop
So I'm using it in a wrong way? 0____o
Here in the Philippines, it's only a buck lol. Thanks for tip!
5:30 Floofy bun!
50% haircut!
Too cute
I did a review on this on the gunpla reddit. The only thing that's worth buying from them are the Balancer sponges, 3 for $6 USD. Just buy the glass nail file for cheap on amazon. Then you'll have a raser kit for 35$ cheaper lol
If you're shopping online, even 3 blocks for $6 is too much. Plenty of bulk listings will happily sell you 20 or more for less than $10.
@@citrusjuicebox I've used regular nail buffing blocks. They didn't achieve the same matte/semi-gloss/gloss look the way the Balancer did. Which is why in my opinion, that product alone is worth.
Thank you. I thank you.
Is it work for curve parts?
Yup, just be careful to follow the curvature closely, so you don't end up with any flat spots.
Thanks a lot! It is much appreciated. just your video and it was timely and I'd say it absolutely is a money saver! I saw the set from Gunprimer but I found the price to be so ridiculous. I will try to look for the glass file in my local Daiso store or Amazon.
Good luck with your search! I couldn't find this at my Daiso, but melamine sponges should be available in the kitchen or cleaning sections.
Man i straight up emailed gunprimer asking why their prices are so high. I'll let you know what their response is.
Have they responded?
Any news?
So?
They also sell something called VOID... ooooh edgy name! .... for $250 USD plus shipping! It’s nothing more than a dust extractor. Professional nail salons use dust extractors that work just as well, if not better, at a fraction of the price. The lesson learn is, do your research, know what tools are truly worth it folks. Spend good money on good tools. Avoid shitty or pointless products and use that money to buy kits instead.
still got scratch mark all over the part for oob build
Subscribed for this video
Me: Originally knows about gunprimer and looks at the price and with the conversion rate to CAD, simply laughs at the absurd price and shipping.
Also me: Watches this, realizes the waste of money that this is and goes to local pharmacy to buy a glass file
ridiculous u can buy nano glass file for a dollar 😅 they charge as if it so special coming from them lol😅😂 good job citrus 👍👍
Oh well. I like my gunprimer razor. Guess I got a bad deal but at least it works well.
Lol, it better works, if not that's a scam
So glad I came across before I could buy the Gunprimer items. Blessed RUclips Algo.
local man annihilates company
whats this? some makeup set lol
Resourcefulness never hurts.
@@citrusjuicebox I'm still amazed at how they price gouge things that are under a dollar each
omg thank you so much Citrus, this is going to save my wallet and having to buy overseas due to the Rona...MY EYES ARE OPEN! haha
Ahh, the gunprimer raser... Those who own one swear by it, and those who think $45 for a $1 tool is beyond absurd will never even think to touch it.
Personally i use dspiae's siren. They're like a good compromise at $5. The water trick works really well with it.
There's snake oil in every hobby, and I'm pretty disappointed it hit gunpla as well. FWIW buying a slightly nicer one ($5 range, like you said) is probably worth it. Some of the cheaper ones will wear out quickly, and it's just not worth the hassle to replace them, especially if you build a lot.
Some of their products are pretty pointless too. They sell a product called Joint Guard which is, and I am not kidding, a piece of precut tape. That’s it folks. Nothing special to see here. They use it to tighten joints... something you can cut and do yourself, or better yet, do what modelers have been doing effectively and cheap for over 40 years and use a bit of CA or nail polish on the peg, let dry... viola! tight joints. What GP going to sell next? Small precut sand sponge squares for 20 bucks?
Don't know why you're getting any dislikes. Appreciate the guidance.
Lol why did I have a feeling it would be this? This thing is a ripoff, I got the same thing on Amazon for a couple bucks.
THIS DUDE DESTROYED GUNPRIMER FOR 5 MINS ADN WITH A PRICE RANGE BELOW 5$, wow
So, someone somewhere actually spent $45 to retain the plastic looks of their gunpla and by doing so making their gunpla looks like a toy instead of spending the same amount of money to buy some paints or at least top coat to make their gunpla looks more realistic? I'm not against people who prefer to not paint or topcoat their gunpla but it baffles me if someone actually spend $45 just to keep that plastic look
Right? Seems like the whole point of OOB is too be less expensive.
this product is for removing the nub. even if you are painting your kits a product like this is still useful.
@@JangoTheBlueFox or you can just use sanding stick, sanding paper, or sanding sponge. Even the sanding paper that tamiya made, which is quite expensive imo is much cheaper than this. And after painting them or even just using top coat on them, the mark left by sanding won't be visible anymore
Yeah the one from gunprimer is reidicilous like 45 dollars for something that can litteraly be bought for three dollars the gunprimwr poeple are crazy
$45 is too much
Uses $90 nippers.
I mean, I use $15 nippers, which is about as you can go before really starting to compromise on quality.
The gunprimer and infini models of glass files are far superior to the Amazon no name brands you truly do get what you pay for. The cheap ones work. But the result is far from as good as from the other two.