As a Pats fan through the entire dynasty, the answer is simply both. There were games that Tom's intensity and tenacity inspired the whole team to victory. But there were also games where Bill's game plan and prep absolutely helped outlast way more talented teams than ours
Brady won the first three on the back of Defense, and an overall mentally tough, well-coached team. The latter 3 was more on the back of Brady, but there are still 52 other players on the roster, a coaching staff, organizational/management rolls…bottom line is Kraft caught lightning in a bottle with Tom & Bill and made the most of it for two decades.
Offensive players sure. But plenty of defensive players went there because they knew Belichicks defensive scheme would make them look good. Like Aqib Talib, Junior Seau etc
@@brianbadonde9251 lol no they didn't belichicks "scheme" is bend but not break and lean on Brady to do his thing. Name all the HoF defensive players that got to "shine" in belichicks defense. They were all DBs - no sack masters because of they're bend but don't break style of defense.
@@notme-vg5bd yes they did ask talib, ask revis, ask michae bennett, they came to the patriots because of tom. and in spite of bill because they were all pro players who didn't need bill to coach them like a drill sergeant they already had it themselves.
Lol seriously, this is the most obvious "uh duh" of all time. The Patriots were totally irrelevant before Brady, and are again totally irrelevant after him. The Bucs won a Super Bowl immediately after bringing in Brady. Case closed.
@@sheeshshoot123 he begged him. Lol. He did his old coach a friend by faking that they were interested so that other NFL teams might give him another job. Belichick is the coach with the most losses in NFL history. Without Brady 2 playoff appearances, 1 win and it was in the 90’s against a backup. With out Belichick, Brady was 4-1 in the playoffs with a SB win.
That's what I was thinking. Why put so much coverage and dollars into such a moot topic? Next Topic -- If Lebron's jersey was made by Rakuten, would he have won a championship?
Yeah just thinking about it obviously it wasn't great but Bill being the doubting father was really great. Especially since Tom actually did have a very supportive father.. He fed off being the 6th round pick.. But once that wears off there's Belicheck. The constantly doubting correcting father Brady had to disprove. I imagine he could've hinted he'd always technically have more rings than Brady as he had 2 coaching rings already.
Remember when Brady held the Rams to 3 points in Super Bowl LIII? Remember when Belichick put the team on his back and led them on drive after drive to erase a 25 point deficit in Super Bowl LI? The correct answer is: Both of them.
TB went 7-9 the year before Tom got there. Bill went 7-9 the year after Tom left, only went to the playoffs 2 times without Tom in 10 years as a coach and only one one playoff game without Tom. It's more Tom than Bill IMO.
@@foruv Bill Belichick without Tom Brady as his starting QB 1991 out of playoffs 1992 out of playoffs 1993 out of playoffs 1995 out of playoffs 2000 out of playoffs 5-11 2001 (0-2) Week 3 and after 14-3 2008 out of playoffs 2020 out of playoffs 2022 out of playoffs 2023 out of playoffs .438 Win % in 130 Games without Brady... Wanna Play With Me?
I am 46..Born and raised in Atlanta and wore the losses with pride knowing one day we would get our chance...that day came..and Tom Brady killed my fandom..I have not watched the NFL since that Super Bowl..f the Falcons.
Sorry.. Coming into watching the game only in 2020 when Tom won his last.. Naturally I gravitated to Brady but he'd already had most his career. It'd be weird like the Chiefs now if you don't support that team and every 3rd year even you just hit a wall when you finally get into the championships.
😂 Sorry brother I feel bad for one of the saddest nights of your life was one of my happiest, I think both our franchises has some work to do in the coming years but you when both get there hope you get to watch again 😅
-As a NY football fan, I felt the same way after that game. But the blame lies on the Falcons coaching staff. They blew that game that was basically un-loseable at 28-3.
The dopest thing about Tom Brady is that while other N.F.L. athletes might have a spectacular catch or a running style that gets them noticed and maybe a video game will animate these things to distinguish that athlete, but what do you do when your quarterbacks special move is a entire 2 minute drill for the win at the last seconds of the game about 90% of the time the team is in that situation.😎
That’s a bad comparison. Brady left a depleted roster in New England and went to a loaded Tampa team. Belichick had holes to fill before Brady left and then had a HoF size hole at QB.
You are correct but Billy Football was the mastermind behind the "Big Blue Wrecking Crew" Giants in '86 and '90 though which I would say was better than the LOB Seahawks. He had the answer to the Bills K Gun Offense although they barely won that game. Ol' Billy Football was a defensive coach through and through. He had two rings before he even met Brady.
How is this even remotely debated in 2025? look at Bill’s record with and without Brady, the sample size is enormous for both… (83-102 vs 249-75) The proof is in the pudding.
Poor Joe Montana, before Brady and the Patriots defeated the Falcons in that superbowl almost everybody had Montana as the greatest.. once that game was over, the debate was over. Tom IS the greatest QB of all time.. and I’m a Niners fan 😂😮
I’m not gonna lie, I liked hearing his commentary on fox sports since he took the job this year. You really hear his passion for the game even when he’s in the booth. He’s truly the goat
It’s Tom 100%. Bill has a terrible below .500 record without Tom! Not to mention the 1st year Tom left he took a completely different team to a Super Bowl and won it. It’s pretty simple logic in my opinion
@@brianbadonde9251 Don't forget the great Damon Huard, Rohan Davey, Kliff Kingsbury, Jim Miller, Matt Gutierrez, Kevin O'Connell, Brian Hoyer, Zac Robinson, Ryan Mallett, Tim Tebow, Jacoby Brissett, Danny Etling, and Jarrett Stidham. belichick "made" them look good too!!! LOL
@brianbadonde9251 cassell had the keys to a Lamborghini basically. That team went undefeated in the regular season the year before. Not to mention, the Pats missed the playoffs at 10-6 or 11-5 i forget which one. Jimmy G is a good example. Regardless, belichick was a great coach. The best of all time imo
@@brianbadonde9251 Compared to Brady both Jimmy G and Cassell astronomically produced lower statistically (Care to run the numbers with me Champ?) Go for it As for Bill Belichick > A horrendous .438 Win% in 130 career coaching games without Brady.. (No Emoji Required)
Brady had the same offensive line coach for like maybe 20+ years… and I’m opinion your line coach builds a lot into your movement in the pocket an overall trust while delivering a pass
Damn in the 2014 playoff run Brady threw for an earth shattering 1,137 yards in 3 playoff games.. That number is insane. He was the only QB in over 4 years (68 games) to throw 4 TD's against Seattle's #1 Defense in that SB win In 2002 he led the NFL in TD's passing and 20 years later in 2021 he's still leading the league in TD's passing . Some of his stuff is crazy. He once threw an NFL record 5 TD's in 1 quarter in a Friggin Snow Storm
Hes called wild dawg or something he used to be on the radio hazing mike francesa but now hes on first take and sometimes he beats steven a and paul finebaum
I hate this debate, It’s a domino effect, it started with the big tuna. Without him bill never gets that head coaching job and Brady never gets drafted. It’s also pretty well documented that Brady had by far the best defense out of any all time great qb in history. Elite defense + elite situational team play + all time great qb + some luck on the way = greatest dynasty ever. I’m a patriots hater for life but respect where it’s due, don’t have to tear one down to build the other up.
I agree. We aren’t comparing player to player or coach to coach. Tom was elite, Bill had to reinvent that team like 3 or 4 times and won a couple different ways. Not sure why they both can’t be the GOAT at their respective positions.
Belichick had ZERO to do with Brady getting drafted casual - I repeat ZERO.. Lloyd Carr and Larry Cook were the one's that got Brady to New England And let's crunch the numbers Bill Belichick without Tom Brady as his starting QB 1991 out of playoffs 1992 out of playoffs 1993 out of playoffs 1995 out of playoffs 2000 out of playoffs 5-11 2001 (0-2) Week 3 and after 14-3 2008 out of playoffs 2020 out of playoffs 2022 out of playoffs 2023 out of playoffs .438 Win % in 130 Games without Brady... Try and get around that i double dog dare you..
The only SB season for Brady where his defense was clearly the better unit was 2003. We are currently watching back-to-back seasons where Mahomes’ defenses are clearly better.
Unsure why people even have this debate…. Tom is a player and Bill a coach. You think Tom wins 6 SB’s with a different coach …. Probably not…. Does Bill win 6 with out Brady? Probably not. But do they each get a couple. Probably. Tom can be GOAT QB and Bill GOAT Coach. Both can be true.
simple answer is both. Look at the defenses Brady was given. The first 3 superbowls were more because of Bill and those defenses than they were Brady. The last 3 were a mix of both but Brady was also incredible. A great example of this was 2018-19 when the offense had its struggles but Brady had them going late. Then Belichick coached a masterclass defensive game against the rams in rhe superbowl holding them to just 3. So the answer is both and anyone who gives brady or bill all the credit have no idea what they are talking about
Feel like this is a dumb question, brady wouldnt have won without belichick, belichick wouldnt have won without brady. Heck, brady wouldnt even be in the league if it werent for belichick. Its a bad argument to make, belichick went to the superbowl before brady and brady went to the superbowl after belichick.
Threw 3 INTs on consecutive drives in the NFC Championship... hardly proved he carries things. Fell apart within 3 years... One ring, zero dynasty. Belichick made everything.
@@DaveandDebe No, I must be someone who knows how the sport of football works. You are a middle school cafeteria table bullshitter, working off your mom's basement version of football. QBs don't win Super Bowls. TB was a backup ringless hack before meeting the man who made every single player in that locker room what they became. It wasn't magic. Work ethic, preparation, scheme, fundamentals... REAL FOOTBALL. Not a video game. YOU must be Robert Kraft or his idiot "Thanks Dad!" kid Johnny...
Both! Can't have all that success without the 2, why? Because they both did it together, as well the entire team, You want to get technical about it how about the architect of the teams? The G'ms and the owner writing those checks???
The answer is everyone. Both Brady and Bill had a huge part. The QB is obviously the most important position in sports. So you need a great QB to be a dynasty. The defense deserves a TON of credit for the dynasty especially the first dynasty in the beginning. As well as even the kicker Adam Vinatieri who had HUGE kicks in AFC Div playoffs (Tuck Rule Game) vs Oak then the Super Bowl to win it. More kicks in the following two Super Bowl Championships. Then Brady started turning into a monster.
Belichick is the greatest defensive mind in NFL history, but his record spanning approximately a decade without Brady is abysmal-and as you’d expect his offenses were particularly abysmal.
It was a team effort. The defense was very good. The formula worked great with Brady at QB. Brady was also underpaid, so they could get more talent within the cap.
It also overlooked how underrated he was in the pocket. He got rid of the ball quickly, destroyed blitzs, and was evasive in the pocket. Even the games he did get hit a lot he still came back to take the lead like vs. the Rams when he played in tampa or the Giants superbowl. He was actually one of 3 qbs to get hit over 22 times in the Super Bowl. But he was the only one to come out victorious. Jist shows you that hitting him obviously helps, but it doesn't guarantee a win. He still got better as the game went on.
60/40 Brady. Bill held it together for those first super bowls with his defense. Towards the middle and end, Brady took over. He wins in Tampa to solidify how much of an impact he makes.
I applaud Mad Dog for hosting this (Since everyone in New England hates his show, opinions, general outlook on life/sports, demeanor, etc. ) so good on you. Mad Dog - God knows what they paid you to do this, but it was well done.
Yes, Tom Brady was key to the Patriots success. Tom Brady took a mid range NFL QB salary that freed-up money toward the salary cap and allowing the Patriots to obtain better players. Patriots in-turn gave Brady more autonomy in the use of his name and likeness, related to the Patriots, to offset the diminished salary. Imagine if Dan Marino took a massive pay cut at his prime allowing the Dolphins to recruit better players - this is what Brady did. *BRILLIANT*
Debates like this prove one thing, regardless of which side you take, you don’t know football. If Brady had success, he had a pocket to work within. If he Brady did not have success, there was no pocket to work within. Meaning the Patriots personnel department was able to consistently acquire top tier offensive line (as a group) thru draft, trades, and free agency. They also had Dante Scarnecchia, possibly the best offensive line coach in NFL history. Tom Brady was unique in that regardless of his success, he was coached hard. If an assistant coach cussed out Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre, Drew Brees, etc. the way Bill O’Brien went after Brady, that assistant coach would have been shown the door. See: Ken Dorsey and Josh Allen. Brady was also very smart situationally. It was both of them. But it was also everyone else. They went thru a 10 year Super Bowl drought, with two heartbreaking Super Bowl losses to the Giants together. Between the two, Tom Brady was more willing to remove his ego from the equation, which allowed their success to continue. Best illustrated when Belichick benched Malcom Butler and for first time ever, his defense could not stop a nose bleed, costing Patriots Super Bowl despite Brady’s Super Bowl masterpiece. The very next year, Belichick had his Super Bowl masterpiece, and unlike Belichick the year prior, Brady did not intentionally sabotage it.
The answer is always going to be a player . A coach can call plays . But a player has to execute. Me and friends rn and start a football game with no coach and one team will win . Football is a team sport and both coaches and players have to play a part. BUT PLAYERS ARE THE ONES ACTUALLY PLAYING THE SPORT . They always deserve more credit
Tom Brady is the Goat 🐐 BRADY left Belechick and Won a Super-Bowl with Tampa 🤔 When BRADY left N.E. ( Belechick Struggled ) Big Time ,,, Belechick went From being the G.O.A.T of Coaching" To being Shown the Door after Struggled Immensely after BRADY Left 😕 Belechick has NEVER Won a Super-Bowl without BRADY while being a ( Head Coach ) ... When BRADY Won his Super-Bowl With Tampa" And When Belechick was Struggling with the PATRIOT'S", It 💯% Hurt Belechick's LEGACY it Showed without BRADY" Belechick Couldn't Win 🏈 WITHOUT ( BURROW ) remember where Cincinnati was
Tom Brady has more super bowl rings than any other team all time and that's wild. Not only that didn't Brady go and drag a half ass buccaneers team to the super bowl and won it, did belichec do that?
I mean yes the coach is the most important part of organizing a game but the QB has to execute everything the coach wants accomplished. TOM BRADY is in a class all of his own. Def Brady. No one ever said I want to go to New England cuz there coach is awesome. They went to play with Tom . Thanx for uploading this 👍
You mean the greatest football player of all time ? Yeah.., I think Brady might have had a little something to do with the Patriots success.., what dumbass “click bait !”
The irony of that statement that Brady's 4th quarter comeback vs the Seahawks in the Super Bowl, is that that wasn't the greatest 4th quarter QB comeback in Super Bowl History- The GREATEST 4th quarter Super Bowl comeback in History was - you guessed it, STILL TOM BRADY , Patriots vs Atlanta Falcons😭🤣🤣😂😂 !!!!!
Short answer, yes he was the "key". The answer for anyone who has played football is that coaching matters. Bill Belichick kept his teams focused and relevant for almost two decades and game-planned every win. Was Tom Brady ordering up blitzes or catching passes? Was he blocking like Matt Light or covering the best receivers in the league like Stephen Gilmore and Rodney Harrison did? It takes a team to win and a coach to lead that team. Every single one of Brady's rings, he had a top 10 defense. Tom and Bill needed each other.
Want to take me on Pal? Let's start this way Bill Belichick without Tom Brady as his starting QB 1991 out of playoffs 1992 out of playoffs 1993 out of playoffs 1995 out of playoffs 2000 out of playoffs 5-11 2001 (0-2) Week 3 and after 14-3 2008 out of playoffs 2020 out of playoffs 2022 out of playoffs 2023 out of playoffs .438 Win % in 130 Games without Brady... I'm Waiting For You
@@Smile-n9i wow, you really got them with that incredibly myopic take. I’m impressed. You can’t compare this with black and white numbers. Yes, he failed before Brady. But he also didn’t have the players. You can be a great coach and still don’t succeed because it’s not a good fit, you weren’t ready yet and you don’t have a good roster. It’s not just “oh he never won anything without Brady.” Look at what they did together. Last I checked, Brady didn’t play defense. And those first 3 SB winning seasons were largely about their defense and/or running the ball. And then there was the last SB win where they scored 13 points in the game. A single TD! Did Brady hold the Rams to 3 points? No that was the defense, Belichick’s defense. I don’t particularly like the guy but geez, don’t completely discredit him. Or do, idc. Your opinion doesn’t ultimately matter anyway. He’ll be a first ballot HOF regardless of what you think.
@@no2_j people talk about the rams 13-3 win but what they fail to realize is there is no rams sb that year without brady. It's because of brady they got to that super bowl. Who do you think put the pats ahead with only 37 seconds left in the chiefs game only to watch belichicks defense blow it and allow the chiefs to tie it. In OT brady took the pats on a 75 yard drive to win it and belichick defense never had to go on the field.In the playoff game before brady hung 35 points on the chargers in the first half against the chargers. That charger team in the playoff game before that shut lamar jackson down to nothing.
@@AlwaysHalloween000 I understand Brady’s significance to the Pats’ success. I was just underlining that it takes a team (and great coaching) to win consistently over time. It was simply an example.
@@no2_j Bullcrap those numbers are black and white?? How's is this for black and white? Bill Belichick just signed Drew Bledsoe to the largest contract in NFL history in 2000 only to go 5-11 and miss the playoffs. The Patriots offense was ranked 20th in 2019 without Belichick and in 2000 they were ranked 25th with Belichick So here are the numbers before Brady signed in 2000 ⬇(And they certainly aren't black and white) 5-11 in 2000 - 25th ranked offense 0-2 in 2001 - Pats put up 10 points in the first 2 weeks 5-13 With New Coach Belichick .277 Win% - 25th ranked offense With Brady Week 3 and on 14-3 = .823 Win% - The teams first SB win ever /Brady SB MVP And before you say Bledsoe was no good which i anticipate you will consider this > Bledsoe got the Patriots to a SB before Belichick was the head coach and he was a Pro Bowler and after he left New England he was a Pro Bowler his first season in Buffalo It wasn't Bledsoe and is someone says it still was then Belichick must have HORRIBLE judgement because he was the one who thought so highly of Bledsoe he game him the largest contract in NFL history. Brady's 2nd season in New England he led the entire NFL in TD's passing .It was Belichicks horrible defense that contributed to the Pats missing the playoffs that season - 17th ranked He didn't have the players you say? Another Bull Crap - He's the only coach in history to have 3- 1st round ,1st pick QB's and he stunk with all 3 of them .. Testverdi ,Kosar and Bledsoe. You mean he didn't have Brady.. That's one Hell of a coincidence to go a miserable 5-13 to 14-3 literally overnight from a 25th ranked offense to 5 th ranked in less than 4 months NUMBERS NEVER LIE PAL ..And i just proved it
Bro, we can hear you. Please stop yelling. It was all those touchdown passes that Bill Belichick threw that made them such a great franchise...oh, wait...
To be completely honest, we need to see how Bill does in North Carolina. Brady obviously won another Super Bowl with the Bucs, but if Bill can win in College, then we know it was Bill. If he loses in college, then Brady was the reason for the Patriots success
Not even a question. The moment he went to Tampa and won a superbowl his first year answered that question. It pisses me off the niners had chance at brady and stuck with jimmy instead. They could won 2 superbowls with brady
It’s both equally, even though Belichick would give 100% credit to the players when they won. But like the great leader Belichick was, he’d take 100% of the blame when they lost.
Brady made the plays and made the players around him better. Belichick designed plays and put the pieces together by hiring the correct coaches and players to help Brady. With that being said in my opinion Brady is slightly more responsible for the Patriots success because he left for Tampa (new coaches/players) and still won a Super Bowl which shows just how great Brady is/was. As for Belichick he had a horrible couple seasons since Brady left and ended up leaving New England and is now coaching at the college level (N. Carolina Tar Heels).
The team is only as good as it's weakest link. The only reason why Tom was able to do so well was because of the coach and the rest of the team. When great plays are made it is because of the team making sure the quarterback is clear enough to throw the pass, and that the receiver is clear enough to receive the pass as well as the plan made by the coach behind said play. There is no denying that Tom Brady is one of the greatest quarterbacks but it's the pull of the team during those great plays that makes those situations easier. *It's a perfect balance of great skilled players, teamwork, and communication that brought the team such victories, not just one member. *
As a Pats fan through the entire dynasty, the answer is simply both. There were games that Tom's intensity and tenacity inspired the whole team to victory. But there were also games where Bill's game plan and prep absolutely helped outlast way more talented teams than ours
Lmao yeah there's no way bills is winning those rings without Brady, and brady is definitely winning without bill... let's stop the cap
@ you’ve clearly never played organized football. It’s a full team effort, no one person can be the cause for 20 yrs of success
Brady won the first three on the back of Defense, and an overall mentally tough, well-coached team. The latter 3 was more on the back of Brady, but there are still 52 other players on the roster, a coaching staff, organizational/management rolls…bottom line is Kraft caught lightning in a bottle with Tom & Bill and made the most of it for two decades.
@@stephensuniverse so you believe those teams have those rings without brady? Lol
@@JAAY2KAAYBrady said it was both but nope, that can't be right cause JAAY2KAAY on RUclips said so
People went to New England to play with Tom Brady they took pay cuts Tom took a pay cut nobody went to New England to get coached by Bill belichick
Offensive players sure. But plenty of defensive players went there because they knew Belichicks defensive scheme would make them look good. Like Aqib Talib, Junior Seau etc
@@brianbadonde9251 if you was to ask them they will say they wanted to play with Tom Brady stop the madness
@@brianbadonde9251 lol no they didn't belichicks "scheme" is bend but not break and lean on Brady to do his thing. Name all the HoF defensive players that got to "shine" in belichicks defense. They were all DBs - no sack masters because of they're bend but don't break style of defense.
No lady brady was just another cog in bill belichek system.
@@notme-vg5bd yes they did ask talib, ask revis, ask michae bennett, they came to the patriots because of tom. and in spite of bill because they were all pro players who didn't need bill to coach them like a drill sergeant they already had it themselves.
Yes, and it doesn’t take a 45 minute video to explain
Lol seriously, this is the most obvious "uh duh" of all time. The Patriots were totally irrelevant before Brady, and are again totally irrelevant after him. The Bucs won a Super Bowl immediately after bringing in Brady. Case closed.
Then why did Brady beg Belichick to coach the Raiders?
@@sheeshshoot123
he begged him. Lol. He did his old coach a friend by faking that they were interested so that other NFL teams might give him another job. Belichick is the coach with the most losses in NFL history. Without Brady 2 playoff appearances, 1 win and it was in the 90’s against a backup.
With out Belichick, Brady was 4-1 in the playoffs with a SB win.
@@agreb25wrong
That's what I was thinking.
Why put so much coverage and dollars into such a moot topic?
Next Topic -- If Lebron's jersey was made by Rakuten, would he have won a championship?
It was clearly both. Bill handled the defense and Tom was just generational and next level.
Yeah just thinking about it obviously it wasn't great but Bill being the doubting father was really great. Especially since Tom actually did have a very supportive father.. He fed off being the 6th round pick.. But once that wears off there's Belicheck. The constantly doubting correcting father Brady had to disprove. I imagine he could've hinted he'd always technically have more rings than Brady as he had 2 coaching rings already.
Sure, I think what people are actually talking about is percentage of the pie. It was 75/25 Tom.
Could Bill win 6 without Brady? No. Could Tom win 6 without Bill? Yes.
@@evo24kb do patriots win those rings without Brady????
is just not possible to win games without the right QB, and people need to accept the fact that the QB is THAT important for a team
Remember when Brady held the Rams to 3 points in Super Bowl LIII? Remember when Belichick put the team on his back and led them on drive after drive to erase a 25 point deficit in Super Bowl LI?
The correct answer is: Both of them.
Don't forget when Brady shut down the greatest show on Turf
refs
This debate was answered when Brady won the SB in TB.
no it wasnt. Brady went to a great situation in TB while the pats began a rebuild and lost many key players.
Yeah no it wasn't TB was stacked they also went n got gronk & literally rebuilt the OL they're still reaping the benefits of Brady. So no.
TB went 7-9 the year before Tom got there. Bill went 7-9 the year after Tom left, only went to the playoffs 2 times without Tom in 10 years as a coach and only one one playoff game without Tom. It's more Tom than Bill IMO.
@@foruv A team that's 7-9 the year before is a great situation? What's Bill's record without Tom?
@@foruv Bill Belichick without Tom Brady as his starting QB
1991 out of playoffs
1992 out of playoffs
1993 out of playoffs
1995 out of playoffs
2000 out of playoffs 5-11
2001 (0-2) Week 3 and after 14-3
2008 out of playoffs
2020 out of playoffs
2022 out of playoffs
2023 out of playoffs
.438 Win % in 130 Games without Brady...
Wanna Play With Me?
I am 46..Born and raised in Atlanta and wore the losses with pride knowing one day we would get our chance...that day came..and Tom Brady killed my fandom..I have not watched the NFL since that Super Bowl..f the Falcons.
Sorry.. Coming into watching the game only in 2020 when Tom won his last.. Naturally I gravitated to Brady but he'd already had most his career. It'd be weird like the Chiefs now if you don't support that team and every 3rd year even you just hit a wall when you finally get into the championships.
😂😂😂
😂 Sorry brother I feel bad for one of the saddest nights of your life was one of my happiest, I think both our franchises has some work to do in the coming years but you when both get there hope you get to watch again 😅
I feel like that SB was scripted. I don’t know how you lose a 28-3 lead
-As a NY football fan, I felt the same way after that game. But the blame lies on the Falcons coaching staff. They blew that game that was basically un-loseable at 28-3.
The dopest thing about Tom Brady is that while other N.F.L. athletes might have a spectacular catch or a running style that gets them noticed and maybe a video game will animate these things to distinguish that athlete, but what do you do when your quarterbacks special move is a entire 2 minute drill for the win at the last seconds of the game about 90% of the time the team is in that situation.😎
Brady won another Superbowl after he left the Patriots, did Belichick win another after Brady left?? Next!
Not saying you're wrong, but technically bellicheck still has the chance to
That’s a bad comparison. Brady left a depleted roster in New England and went to a loaded Tampa team. Belichick had holes to fill before Brady left and then had a HoF size hole at QB.
@@Dr.SwanPHD_MD_Esquire_the3rd I don't think the comparison is bad at all.
You are correct but Billy Football was the mastermind behind the "Big Blue Wrecking Crew" Giants in '86 and '90 though which I would say was better than the LOB Seahawks. He had the answer to the Bills K Gun Offense although they barely won that game. Ol' Billy Football was a defensive coach through and through. He had two rings before he even met Brady.
@@dalegribble1560 And..one of the biggest cheats to ever get caught coaching the game..don't forget that either.
As Bill jokingly said at the Roast, "it was both of us, because of me."
How is this even remotely debated in 2025? look at Bill’s record with and without Brady, the sample size is enormous for both… (83-102 vs 249-75)
The proof is in the pudding.
100% Facts ✅
Poor Joe Montana, before Brady and the Patriots defeated the Falcons in that superbowl almost everybody had Montana as the greatest.. once that game was over, the debate was over. Tom IS the greatest QB of all time.. and I’m a Niners fan 😂😮
Eventually the same will happen with Brady just how it is 🤷♂️
@@rickyrichreacts9667 fake 9ers fans, that’s crazy you think Brady was better as a QB than Montana or even Steve Young 😅
@@jdk_sports23 There's nothing Montana has over Brady. Men lie. Women lie. The numbers don't.
@@jamalwalker04 INTs in the Superbowl. ;-)
@@devi2691how many super bowls has Brady been in?
I’m not gonna lie, I liked hearing his commentary on fox sports since he took the job this year. You really hear his passion for the game even when he’s in the booth. He’s truly the goat
He sounds like he's got the worst CTE this side of Brett Favre sounds like hes struggling to remember the last few words he just said. Its worrying
Not to mention pats had a top ten guy almost in every position at one point
It’s Tom 100%. Bill has a terrible below .500 record without Tom! Not to mention the 1st year Tom left he took a completely different team to a Super Bowl and won it. It’s pretty simple logic in my opinion
“Was it him was it me , but it was both of us because of me”
Brady Definitely was the G.O.A.T. Proud to be a Newenglander
Tom Brady was was one of a handful of quarterbacks in history who could process and execute Belichick’s overly complex goofy schemes.
20 years of great memories.
This doesn’t feel like a normal vice video. The style is completely different
Not nearly enough ads
I think his pay cuts meant that they could pay players a little more so they would stay.
We have seen belicheck without Brady or LT
Yeah like when he made Matt Cassel and Jimmy Garopolo look good 😅
@@brianbadonde9251 Don't forget the great Damon Huard, Rohan Davey, Kliff Kingsbury, Jim Miller, Matt Gutierrez, Kevin O'Connell, Brian Hoyer, Zac Robinson, Ryan Mallett, Tim Tebow, Jacoby Brissett, Danny Etling, and Jarrett Stidham. belichick "made" them look good too!!! LOL
@brianbadonde9251 cassell had the keys to a Lamborghini basically. That team went undefeated in the regular season the year before. Not to mention, the Pats missed the playoffs at 10-6 or 11-5 i forget which one. Jimmy G is a good example. Regardless, belichick was a great coach. The best of all time imo
@@brianbadonde9251Brady mentored those QBs from the sideline.
@@brianbadonde9251 Compared to Brady both Jimmy G and Cassell astronomically produced lower statistically (Care to run the numbers with me Champ?) Go for it
As for Bill Belichick > A horrendous .438 Win% in 130 career coaching games without Brady.. (No Emoji Required)
i truly believe this man is the greatest qb to ever do it, his skill is unmatched
This topic has gotten completely stale. Brady needed Belichick and Belichick needed Brady. End of discussion.
Definitely
BRADY made everything possible his durability, his sacrifices, and his work ethics.
Great episode can’t wait until next week !
Brady had the same offensive line coach for like maybe 20+ years… and I’m opinion your line coach builds a lot into your movement in the pocket an overall trust while delivering a pass
Damn in the 2014 playoff run Brady threw for an earth shattering 1,137 yards in 3 playoff games.. That number is insane.
He was the only QB in over 4 years (68 games) to throw 4 TD's against Seattle's #1 Defense in that SB win
In 2002 he led the NFL in TD's passing and 20 years later in 2021 he's still leading the league in TD's passing .
Some of his stuff is crazy. He once threw an NFL record 5 TD's in 1 quarter in a Friggin Snow Storm
Why is Bill Nye hosting this 🤣
This dudes one repeated hand gesture is driving me crazy
😂😂😂😂
Hes called wild dawg or something he used to be on the radio hazing mike francesa but now hes on first take and sometimes he beats steven a and paul finebaum
The Goat
Nice al pacino impression
2 second video with one word on screen: “Yes.” 45 minutes saved.
Who won a Super Bowl without the other? Brady
Brady was a super rich mans Peyton. By far the best player the league has ever seen.
Brelichick was John Fox
Josh McDaniels was Adam Gase
The first 3 are Belichick, the last 3 are Brady.
I hate this debate, It’s a domino effect, it started with the big tuna. Without him bill never gets that head coaching job and Brady never gets drafted. It’s also pretty well documented that Brady had by far the best defense out of any all time great qb in history. Elite defense + elite situational team play + all time great qb + some luck on the way = greatest dynasty ever.
I’m a patriots hater for life but respect where it’s due, don’t have to tear one down to build the other up.
I agree. We aren’t comparing player to player or coach to coach. Tom was elite, Bill had to reinvent that team like 3 or 4 times and won a couple different ways. Not sure why they both can’t be the GOAT at their respective positions.
Belichick had ZERO to do with Brady getting drafted casual - I repeat ZERO.. Lloyd Carr and Larry Cook were the one's that got Brady to New England
And let's crunch the numbers
Bill Belichick without Tom Brady as his starting QB
1991 out of playoffs
1992 out of playoffs
1993 out of playoffs
1995 out of playoffs
2000 out of playoffs 5-11
2001 (0-2) Week 3 and after 14-3
2008 out of playoffs
2020 out of playoffs
2022 out of playoffs
2023 out of playoffs
.438 Win % in 130 Games without Brady...
Try and get around that i double dog dare you..
The only SB season for Brady where his defense was clearly the better unit was 2003.
We are currently watching back-to-back seasons where Mahomes’ defenses are clearly better.
Unsure why people even have this debate…. Tom is a player and Bill a coach. You think Tom wins 6 SB’s with a different coach …. Probably not…. Does Bill win 6 with out Brady? Probably not. But do they each get a couple. Probably. Tom can be GOAT QB and Bill GOAT Coach. Both can be true.
simple answer is both. Look at the defenses Brady was given. The first 3 superbowls were more because of Bill and those defenses than they were Brady. The last 3 were a mix of both but Brady was also incredible. A great example of this was 2018-19 when the offense had its struggles but Brady had them going late. Then Belichick coached a masterclass defensive game against the rams in rhe superbowl holding them to just 3. So the answer is both and anyone who gives brady or bill all the credit have no idea what they are talking about
this is terribly done. like its painful to watch but brady and belichick are a great duo.
I want the next episode right now!
The answer is no; cheating was the key to the Pats glory
Feel like this is a dumb question, brady wouldnt have won without belichick, belichick wouldnt have won without brady. Heck, brady wouldnt even be in the league if it werent for belichick. Its a bad argument to make, belichick went to the superbowl before brady and brady went to the superbowl after belichick.
Wow wow wow Tom
I dont watch NFL, I watch Rugby. I'm from south Africa.
But Tom Brady is a Super Human ❤❤❤❤❤ seriously!!!
Fellow SA. 😊
Sound like you're from screen rant 😂
Yes
Yes!! 100%Tom Brady 👍👍,, he proved it in Tampa
Threw 3 INTs on consecutive drives in the NFC Championship... hardly proved he carries things. Fell apart within 3 years... One ring, zero dynasty. Belichick made everything.
@dmcg8400 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣,,, you must be Belichick's mom,, 😂👎
@@DaveandDebe No, I must be someone who knows how the sport of football works. You are a middle school cafeteria table bullshitter, working off your mom's basement version of football. QBs don't win Super Bowls. TB was a backup ringless hack before meeting the man who made every single player in that locker room what they became. It wasn't magic. Work ethic, preparation, scheme, fundamentals... REAL FOOTBALL. Not a video game.
YOU must be Robert Kraft or his idiot "Thanks Dad!" kid Johnny...
They both are the best at what they did. It was was a match made in heaven for us NE fans. 60/40 Brady.
GOAT 🐐
Both! Can't have all that success without the 2, why? Because they both did it together, as well the entire team, You want to get technical about it how about the architect of the teams? The G'ms and the owner writing those checks???
Was a complete team
Just like fuzzy said, nobody has ever said"I've decidedto go to New Englang so i can be coached by Bill Bellechick" 😂
The answer is everyone. Both Brady and Bill had a huge part. The QB is obviously the most important position in sports. So you need a great QB to be a dynasty. The defense deserves a TON of credit for the dynasty especially the first dynasty in the beginning. As well as even the kicker Adam Vinatieri who had HUGE kicks in AFC Div playoffs (Tuck Rule Game) vs Oak then the Super Bowl to win it. More kicks in the following two Super Bowl Championships. Then Brady started turning into a monster.
Belichick is the greatest defensive mind in NFL history, but his record spanning approximately a decade without Brady is abysmal-and as you’d expect his offenses were particularly abysmal.
As STEELER fan from Pitt...i give him credit! Guys wanted to win a ring! DONT KISS UR KIDS ON MOUTH!😂
To have this level of success, the Patriots had more keys than a school janitor.
More stuff like this please vice thank ya
It was a team effort. The defense was very good. The formula worked great with Brady at QB. Brady was also underpaid, so they could get more talent within the cap.
"how about MY mind and the problem that creates for the defense"......COLD!
Brady had a HOF caliber offensive line in front of him that gave him plenty of time to do what he did. That’s often overlooked.
Dante Scarnecchia!
It also overlooked how underrated he was in the pocket. He got rid of the ball quickly, destroyed blitzs, and was evasive in the pocket. Even the games he did get hit a lot he still came back to take the lead like vs. the Rams when he played in tampa or the Giants superbowl. He was actually one of 3 qbs to get hit over 22 times in the Super Bowl. But he was the only one to come out victorious. Jist shows you that hitting him obviously helps, but it doesn't guarantee a win. He still got better as the game went on.
For 20 years though ? Not like it was 5 years.
And had good defenses the whole time as well, that was coached by Belichick. He doesn't play defense fellas
It is a team sport!
i think its said best as: "they were a team."
I don't even understand how the title of this video is even a question?!?! Lmao. 😅
60/40 Brady. Bill held it together for those first super bowls with his defense. Towards the middle and end, Brady took over. He wins in Tampa to solidify how much of an impact he makes.
2:50 imagine if that low tapper fade meme was still massive
That Brady vs Bellichick question was answered when the Bucs went to the SB and won it with Brady.
I applaud Mad Dog for hosting this (Since everyone in New England hates his show, opinions, general outlook on life/sports, demeanor, etc. ) so good on you. Mad Dog - God knows what they paid you to do this, but it was well done.
Yes, Tom Brady was key to the Patriots success. Tom Brady took a mid range NFL QB salary that freed-up money toward the salary cap and allowing the Patriots to obtain better players. Patriots in-turn gave Brady more autonomy in the use of his name and likeness, related to the Patriots, to offset the diminished salary. Imagine if Dan Marino took a massive pay cut at his prime allowing the Dolphins to recruit better players - this is what Brady did. *BRILLIANT*
Debates like this prove one thing, regardless of which side you take, you don’t know football. If Brady had success, he had a pocket to work within. If he Brady did not have success, there was no pocket to work within. Meaning the Patriots personnel department was able to consistently acquire top tier offensive line (as a group) thru draft, trades, and free agency. They also had Dante Scarnecchia, possibly the best offensive line coach in NFL history.
Tom Brady was unique in that regardless of his success, he was coached hard. If an assistant coach cussed out Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre, Drew Brees, etc. the way Bill O’Brien went after Brady, that assistant coach would have been shown the door. See: Ken Dorsey and Josh Allen. Brady was also very smart situationally.
It was both of them. But it was also everyone else. They went thru a 10 year Super Bowl drought, with two heartbreaking Super Bowl losses to the Giants together.
Between the two, Tom Brady was more willing to remove his ego from the equation, which allowed their success to continue. Best illustrated when Belichick benched Malcom Butler and for first time ever, his defense could not stop a nose bleed, costing Patriots Super Bowl despite Brady’s Super Bowl masterpiece. The very next year, Belichick had his Super Bowl masterpiece, and unlike Belichick the year prior, Brady did not intentionally sabotage it.
Tom Brady been a Goat in the NFL 🏈🏆
Why don’t you cut the mid roll ads for the program we’re already watching? Great vid but annoying watching the same promo 6 times
The answer is always going to be a player . A coach can call plays . But a player has to execute. Me and friends rn and start a football game with no coach and one team will win . Football is a team sport and both coaches and players have to play a part. BUT PLAYERS ARE THE ONES ACTUALLY PLAYING THE SPORT . They always deserve more credit
This is so funny belichick was the defensive coordinator 😂
why is this 45 minutes long? it is literally about 5 minutes worth of content, fluffed with repetitive flashy nonsense.
Just wait until you find out that there's two more parts to this lol
nahhh a vice documentary is next level ngl 🤣
17:30 Wrong Brady's best Super Bowl was his Super Bowl comeback against the Atlanta Falcons.
Now that was something.
Hands down Mo Lewis is responsible for the Patriots Dynasty, he should be in the Patriots hall of fame.
Crazy how Brady’s decision making in football is off the charts but not for his relationship 😬😬
"Hey Babe, you should try Jujitsu."
Tom Brady is the Goat 🐐 BRADY left Belechick and Won a Super-Bowl with Tampa 🤔 When BRADY left N.E. ( Belechick Struggled ) Big Time ,,, Belechick went From being the G.O.A.T of Coaching" To being Shown the Door after Struggled Immensely after BRADY Left 😕 Belechick has NEVER Won a Super-Bowl without BRADY while being a ( Head Coach ) ... When BRADY Won his Super-Bowl With Tampa" And When Belechick was Struggling with the PATRIOT'S", It 💯% Hurt Belechick's LEGACY it Showed without BRADY" Belechick Couldn't Win 🏈 WITHOUT ( BURROW ) remember where Cincinnati was
What…what is the point of this series?
Tom Brady has more super bowl rings than any other team all time and that's wild. Not only that didn't Brady go and drag a half ass buccaneers team to the super bowl and won it, did belichec do that?
The fact that he won a SB with the bucs tells you everything you need to know lol
Patriots are considered one of the greatest team in any sport. That statement is far fetch. Greatest team in American football, Yes.
I mean yes the coach is the most important part of organizing a game but the QB has to execute everything the coach wants accomplished. TOM BRADY is in a class all of his own. Def Brady. No one ever said I want to go to New England cuz there coach is awesome. They went to play with Tom . Thanx for uploading this 👍
You mean the greatest football player of all time ? Yeah.., I think Brady might have had a little something to do with the Patriots success.., what dumbass “click bait !”
Greatest quarterback, maybe. Def not football player lol. Lawrence Taylor would take that crown, or Jerry Rice, or Deoin Sanders
Dumbest question ever, he’s the GOAT for a reason but obviously Bill was a MASSIVE part of it
Bill didn't win 💩without him..the numbers speak for themselves.
I see it both had a huge influencing but it’s more 60% Brady and 40% Bill. Brady proved it was really him when he won with the bucs
The irony of that statement that Brady's 4th quarter comeback vs the Seahawks in the Super Bowl, is that that wasn't the greatest 4th quarter QB comeback in Super Bowl History- The GREATEST 4th quarter Super Bowl comeback in History was - you guessed it, STILL TOM BRADY , Patriots vs Atlanta Falcons😭🤣🤣😂😂 !!!!!
Short answer, yes he was the "key". The answer for anyone who has played football is that coaching matters. Bill Belichick kept his teams focused and relevant for almost two decades and game-planned every win. Was Tom Brady ordering up blitzes or catching passes? Was he blocking like Matt Light or covering the best receivers in the league like Stephen Gilmore and Rodney Harrison did? It takes a team to win and a coach to lead that team. Every single one of Brady's rings, he had a top 10 defense. Tom and Bill needed each other.
Want to take me on Pal? Let's start this way
Bill Belichick without Tom Brady as his starting QB
1991 out of playoffs
1992 out of playoffs
1993 out of playoffs
1995 out of playoffs
2000 out of playoffs 5-11
2001 (0-2) Week 3 and after 14-3
2008 out of playoffs
2020 out of playoffs
2022 out of playoffs
2023 out of playoffs
.438 Win % in 130 Games without Brady...
I'm Waiting For You
@@Smile-n9i wow, you really got them with that incredibly myopic take. I’m impressed.
You can’t compare this with black and white numbers. Yes, he failed before Brady. But he also didn’t have the players. You can be a great coach and still don’t succeed because it’s not a good fit, you weren’t ready yet and you don’t have a good roster. It’s not just “oh he never won anything without Brady.” Look at what they did together. Last I checked, Brady didn’t play defense. And those first 3 SB winning seasons were largely about their defense and/or running the ball. And then there was the last SB win where they scored 13 points in the game. A single TD! Did Brady hold the Rams to 3 points? No that was the defense, Belichick’s defense. I don’t particularly like the guy but geez, don’t completely discredit him. Or do, idc. Your opinion doesn’t ultimately matter anyway. He’ll be a first ballot HOF regardless of what you think.
@@no2_j people talk about the rams 13-3 win but what they fail to realize is there is no rams sb that year without brady. It's because of brady they got to that super bowl. Who do you think put the pats ahead with only 37 seconds left in the chiefs game only to watch belichicks defense blow it and allow the chiefs to tie it. In OT brady took the pats on a 75 yard drive to win it and belichick defense never had to go on the field.In the playoff game before brady hung 35 points on the chargers in the first half against the chargers. That charger team in the playoff game before that shut lamar jackson down to nothing.
@@AlwaysHalloween000 I understand Brady’s significance to the Pats’ success. I was just underlining that it takes a team (and great coaching) to win consistently over time. It was simply an example.
@@no2_j Bullcrap those numbers are black and white?? How's is this for black and white? Bill Belichick just signed Drew Bledsoe to the largest contract in NFL history in 2000 only to go 5-11 and miss the playoffs. The Patriots offense was ranked 20th in 2019 without Belichick and in 2000 they were ranked 25th with Belichick
So here are the numbers before Brady signed in 2000 ⬇(And they certainly aren't black and white)
5-11 in 2000 - 25th ranked offense
0-2 in 2001 - Pats put up 10 points in the first 2 weeks
5-13 With New Coach Belichick .277 Win% - 25th ranked offense
With Brady Week 3 and on 14-3 = .823 Win% - The teams first SB win ever /Brady SB MVP
And before you say Bledsoe was no good which i anticipate you will consider this > Bledsoe got the Patriots to a SB before Belichick was the head coach and he was a Pro Bowler and after he left New England he was a Pro Bowler his first season in Buffalo
It wasn't Bledsoe and is someone says it still was then Belichick must have HORRIBLE judgement because he was the one who thought so highly of Bledsoe he game him the largest contract in NFL history.
Brady's 2nd season in New England he led the entire NFL in TD's passing .It was Belichicks horrible defense that contributed to the Pats missing the playoffs that season - 17th ranked
He didn't have the players you say? Another Bull Crap - He's the only coach in history to have 3- 1st round ,1st pick QB's and he stunk with all 3 of them .. Testverdi ,Kosar and Bledsoe.
You mean he didn't have Brady..
That's one Hell of a coincidence to go a miserable 5-13 to 14-3 literally overnight
from a 25th ranked offense to 5 th ranked in less than 4 months
NUMBERS NEVER LIE PAL ..And i just proved it
I clicked thinking it was a documentary , I’ve heard this on every morning sports show for the past 8 years . That’s vice tho I guess…
Bro, we can hear you. Please stop yelling. It was all those touchdown passes that Bill Belichick threw that made them such a great franchise...oh, wait...
“Is the sky blue?” ahhh question 💀
Because he was just the right fit at the right time.
To be completely honest, we need to see how Bill does in North Carolina. Brady obviously won another Super Bowl with the Bucs, but if Bill can win in College, then we know it was Bill. If he loses in college, then Brady was the reason for the Patriots success
Your comparing the ACC to AFC. It’s like comparing a kid to an adult.
Not even a question. The moment he went to Tampa and won a superbowl his first year answered that question. It pisses me off the niners had chance at brady and stuck with jimmy instead. They could won 2 superbowls with brady
Uhhh yes?? Lol this is like saying "Was Michael Jordan the key to the Bulls success?"
MJ was system player in the triangle it was all Phil is basically the equivalent to how dumb people were to say Belichicks system was why they won
It’s both equally, even though Belichick would give 100% credit to the players when they won. But like the great leader Belichick was, he’d take 100% of the blame when they lost.
ROBERT KRAFT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE PATS SUCCESS. Before he bought the team they were trash. He turned it around quickly & sustained success
Brady made the plays and made the players around him better. Belichick designed plays and put the pieces together by hiring the correct coaches and players to help Brady. With that being said in my opinion Brady is slightly more responsible for the Patriots success because he left for Tampa (new coaches/players) and still won a Super Bowl which shows just how great Brady is/was. As for Belichick he had a horrible couple seasons since Brady left and ended up leaving New England and is now coaching at the college level (N. Carolina Tar Heels).
The team is only as good as it's weakest link. The only reason why Tom was able to do so well was because of the coach and the rest of the team. When great plays are made it is because of the team making sure the quarterback is clear enough to throw the pass, and that the receiver is clear enough to receive the pass as well as the plan made by the coach behind said play. There is no denying that Tom Brady is one of the greatest quarterbacks but it's the pull of the team during those great plays that makes those situations easier.
*It's a perfect balance of great skilled players, teamwork, and communication that brought the team such victories, not just one member. *
I think the answer to the question posed in this video is clear - YES!!!!