The additional theory that Bloodraven caused the false spring to allow an opportunity for Rhaegar and Lyanna to meet during an otherwise long winter - thus setting up the conditions for the Prince Who Was Promised - makes me further buy into this. The tree man was able to have a real, though temporary, effect in the seasons.
Yeah it has been brought up in comments how easily the slaves could have died naturally in those mines without having to pray for the gift. Also the idea GRRM has mentioned in other drafts of AFFC where it mentions people having their life force bound to glass candles and being unable to die as long as the flame lasts. It seems he has all the set up he needs if he wants to go that direction.
I do agree I think that is the plot thread that will yank Arya back and make her whole arc end game relevant is that they will view this undying power source as the ultimate evil. As for what is the first faceless men it is an interesting thought, but I haven't really looked deeply enough into it lately to have much to say. A very good question to look into though with this in mind.
It's not often that i come across a new main series theory for ASOIAF, especially one that makes so much sense. Congrats! This one is great and actually will be in my headcanon from now on.
The idea that the older religions are more cruel than the newer ones is a theme about which H. P. Lovecraft wrote quite a lot. There are plenty of references to HPL in Martin's works.
I have heard an opinion on Twitter, stating that despite the Seven seemingly not being real, the one thing they are real at is calling out the Old God's and R'hllor as both demon worship. I'm not sure if I agree personally, but it is something to make you think.
The weirwoods are connected like the enormous fungus that is under Upper Peninsula, Michagan. It is all one living thing. The things we see above ground are called fruiting bodies.
Or the clonal aspen grove in Utah - Pando! The root system is estimated to be several thousand years old with some estimates up to 14,000. Each individual 'tree' only lives about 100 years but the root system regularly sends up new shoots
I think it's much more likely modeled after quaking aspen groves which grow dozens or hundreds (in standout cases, thousands) trees from the same rootstock.
"There must always be a Stark at Winterfell." There is. He is in the collapsed part of the crypts. These words won't be realized until *after* the wall is brought down, the others dealt with, and the corruption doesn't end. The north will remember that there is still a Stark at Winterfell. John, as a dead Stark, will be allowed access to the hidden areas of the crypts where he finds Bran the Builder in the roots of the tree at Winterfell. Exactly what he does there, I'm not sure. Kill the Bran the Builder, maybe. But that's more of Arya's job to make sure that "all men must die". There are probably a bunch of CotF there as well who were able to crawl up from underneath. Who knows what this encounter will entail. Probably figure it out in the last book.
As is repeated over and over and over throughout the books, Jon is NOT a Stark. The Kings of Winter keep telling him in his dreams- "You're no Stark. This is not your place. Go away!".
But he is a Stark, just not one born of the male line and one corrupted by Targaryen genes. He probably has more Stark DNA because of how mitochondrial DNA passes on the X chromosome. If Leana Stark is the combined collection of Northern Houses, then she would’ve passed an uncorrupted DNA line of the She Wolves of Winter. The Targaryen line would have 50% of the father’s mother’s side and 50% the father’s male line. Since Targaryen Women were often kept in the family, they’re DNA will be mainly the Valerian family mitochondrial DNA with incorporations of First Men, Andal, and Rhoynar mitochondrial DNA heavily influences the male Targaryen line, therefore, this may be why we get more greenseers and male dragon dreamers after the Dance. These men are heavily influenced by their mother’s line of DNA. Rhaegar married outside of his line, but the question is why? He sought brides that were not Valerian what-so-ever. Was this part of the prophecies he read? We don’t know much about Rhoyanish Magic or prophecies from their side. The pack of Ice and Fire is Leanna, but Elia is Dorenish, and Daenaerys has the most Valerian/Targeryn blood. So Green, Blue, and Red Magic to create White Magic?
Arborist here who would like to give some input on your wierwood wall theory. Most of the reason trees are able to move hundreds of gallons of water up their trunk is due to water evaporating off of the surface of the leaves. Without leaves, as in, buried in a wall, these trees could not be "pumping" water anywhere, and they would all die without exposed foliage. They also need leaves exposed to air to "breathe". Some glaciers in Glacier national park have rivers flowing out of them for hundreds of years yet never get any smaller or melt away. The wall could "weep" every day and not disappear. If you need magic to freeze the water, why can't you have magic to move the water there from underground springs? The water would freeze on the surface without magic also. George didn't even know that a 700 foot wall was as immense as it was when it appeared in the show. He said he imagined it about 1/3 of the size. I doubt he's making complicated systems based on modern physics and agriculture to do things like this. They are called Heart Trees because the sap is red.
So this video got me thinking. Is everyone misunderstanding which direction the wall is defending? A big ice wall being used to keep ice creatures at bay? Alysanne Targaryen tried to cross the wall on Silverwing but SW refused
Maybe, but it's about the warding magic that the wall possesses. Cold hands can't pass. Warg consciousness bonds also don't pass. You can see this with Jon and Ghost and also Hodor and Bran with the warded trees at bloodravens cave @@mausklick1635
Kinda random thought, but isn’t the general thought that Valyrian mages kept the 14 flames banked (with spells and blood) and the FM killed the mages allowing the volcanos to erupted? This destroyed a millennia old culture and The Land of the Long Summer. This didn’t happen that long ago all told, 400-500 years. Now they need to destroy the magic holding another millennia old system in place and destroy the Land of Always Winter?
Company of the Cat has an interesting theory that the Weirwoods started out as Oak trees, and that the Children found a way to 'wight' the oaks, freezing them in place between being alive and going dormant in autumn, in order for the children to still access the greenseer networks during the winter. She suggests that they began doing this more as the First Men destroyed trees, owing to the dwindling number of already scarce Greenseers. Since ice freezes and preserves, and wighting the trees would take place in autumn on the cusp of winter, it makes sense that tapping into the Heart of Winter would be how the Children did this. If we consider the idea that the Long Night happened as a result of the Hammer of the Waters and the Blood Betrayal, with the Bloodstone Emperor attempting some occult ritual involving a red comet that failed, because the Children used the Hammer to manipulate the moon and cause the seas to rise and sink the arm and this caused the comet to strike the moon, it could be that in the ensuing chaos of the Long Night, a rogue faction of Children decided to unleash the Heart of Winter and try to destroy the humans once and for all. They were defeated but not vanquished, and the Wall was created using the Ice magic flowing from the Heart to keep them at bay. The Others could attack again without the Wall, but the Wall in turn messes up the seasons of the planet; this sets up for Bran to solve the problem by bringing down the Wall and making peace with the Others.
This sounds too "pipe dream" for me. The hammer hitting the moon?! Other than the eerye's moon door the moon is almost never mentioned in the books. And never in a way that is interactable by anyone. Other than the comet and that the sun raises and falls each day, there is not much that happens overhead. There are a bunch of romantic sayings thrown about which include the moon, but no evidence that anything moon related matters to the story.
@@emrek99205 The Hammer doesn't 'hit' the moon, but it may manipulate it's orbit to affect the tidal forces of planetos, allowing for the seas to swallow up the Arm of Dorne. That being said, we do have evidence from the stories of House Dayne, the account of Azor Ahai's sacrifice of Nissa Nissa, and the Qartheen dragon origins legend that all point to some kind of collision that cracked the moon long ago
What if the reason that the Stark words are ‘Winter is Coming’ is a warning to keep the old ways literally? What if it’s saying to keep the old ways, sacrificing bastards to the children or the walls. Otherwise, the wall’s magic will fade. It will come down, and winter will literally come in the form of The Others’ return. When the old ways were forgotten to time, winter came.
Props for a creative and well-reasoned theory. Although, in our world there is a maximum height that water can travel vertically up a tree. Its around 426 feet. Water molecules have strong cohesive forces that make them attracted to other water molecules but these forces are only stronger than the force of gravity up to around 426 ft. But i suppose if there is magic involved that could be used to explain the 700 ft thing.
I do think glaciation could push the ice up a bit higher than the tops of the trees as well but yeah probably a little magic needed to get that much difference
I am watching these videos and repeatedly get an add about why trees are good for us and help our environment. I am thinking that's what they want you to believe......
Given that the North gets "Summer snows", it looks to me more like Westeros has intermittent short ice ages in addition to entirely normal seasons, with the characters simply calling these ice ages "winter".
Weren’t true “summer snows” moreso just that the North is cold enough/far enough north that even in the unnatural Westerosi summer, it would see snowfall?
Not sure exactly how it would work, but the fact that the trees interrupt the ability to warg could be a product of the area being anti-magic or at least having an anti-magic shell. The dragons needed the extra magic from the comet in order to hatch. Pretty safe to say dragons are magical. They cannot cross the Wall or what magic that allows them to fly will be interrupted. Silverwing may have sensed this and had to use aerodynamics to turn around. Wasn't that they didn't want to fly over it, they literally couldn't! This would keep the white walkers out as well as they cannot be controlled when they pass into the area. There may be a bit of magic contained in the dragon glass forced into the heart of each Other in the wall to keep them alive. Getting a dead body close enough to that might allow it to be reanimated for a short time. Or maybe if the dead body had dragon glass in its pocket... Dragon glass may be erroneously associated with obsidian which is a volcanic rock. It may instead be meteoric rock. If the comet is associated with magic and dragons it would make sense to call the polished rock left at an impact site as Dragon Glass. The sword Dawn was made from this type of rock, but from a direct recent source. Valerian steel may be made from the same but from older sources left in the ground for millions of years and the battery has worn down. How would these defeat an other or white walker then? Simple. Lightning can ruin or kill electronics, right? Same with magic. Too much of it all at once overloads the circuits or body and causes it to burn out or malfunction. If stabbed with it when alive will hurt, it is still sharp, but the magic itself won't kill what is alive. If the dead is stabbed with it, it could become alive, be cut and then die for real. This instantaneous dead, alive, dead, shocks the system like electricity. "What is dead may never die" true. But if you bring it to life first then it can. The iron born taught us that.
I don’t think the reason for the irregular seasons lacks any scientific explanation, because George has said this in a heart to heart interview with Sibel Kekilli: “These are not my dragons (referring to his dragon figures collection), cause my dragons only have two legs. They don’t have front legs. Other dragons by fantasy writers have four legs and wings, i just have two legs and wings. Why? Cause it’s more scientifically accurate. There’s no animal on earth that has four legs plus wings. Nobody has that sort of thing. So when it’s fantasy i try to… I’m too much of a science fiction guy, I, I wanna make it accurate here.”
I think GRRM misdirects time with Old Nan. Yes, I think she is one of the few truth-tellers but I agree with your theory that she may be a Child of the Forest. The misdirect is time. When she talks about the long winter it could in fact be anywhere from 50 to 5-10 thousand years (or more) ago because we know that Children can live extraordinarily long lives. I think this changes the whole story of what happens when. My theory is that there has been a fight between the Night King and Bran the Builder that has also lasted many millennia. Therefore, I think the seasons change in regard to "who is winning" in that timeframe. Winter is coming when the Night King starts to take offensive measures.
Idk he says its supposed to be a "fantasy" answer and not a natural/science fiction one....but if a planet had two moons, and then one of those moons was destroyed somehow, it would throw the orbit of the planet entirely out of whack and could very easily lead to irregular seasons.
TWhy has no one equated the delay in the book releases to the Winters in Westeros? What if GRRM has all the books written but is releasing them on a timeline that makes fans bitter like a Long Winter would? Just another level of fan emerson that brings readers deeper into the story. All hope fades as the Winters get longer. people forget what Summer was like. Years padd and we worry about mortality of someone in a way we never would have otherwise. That would be some epic art and truly a crown on all of his achievements... and an epic troll.
I also assumed the last books would never be released because GRRM always likes to subvert story tropes. And what's the biggest story trope? That stories have an end.
Maybe your right and all the weirwoods on plantos are connected, that’s why they don’t rot. They always have water because their connected to the network. Same reason they petrify and not rot.
I don't doubt that there is a connexion between the weirwoods and the COTF, that's been stated. But I can't find any reference to what the climate was like before the COTF. It might have been in balance, it might not. My personal favorite theory is that the core of the planet is not molten iron like ours, but a molten habitat for all the dragons that ever were or will be. They move around a lot, which changes the tilt of the planet's axis and therefore the seasons. Actions by the characters in ASOIAF can attract or repel this underground population - and these actions are informed by their own personal histories, cultures and preferences. Us humans are plenty evil enough without hanging it on a bunch of trees. The weirwood is an effect, not a cause imo. GRRM may be commenting (at length) on the human tendency to make changes to the planet for personal short term gain without knowing or caring about the consequences.
In the world of ice and fire it mentions in passing how some maesters believe the seasons used to be in balance until some great cataclysm. And if I'm not mistaken I believe the narrator dismisses the idea as being foolish or else lacking sufficient evidence.
a dynasty taking power from a magical world tree and then replacing it with a self serving replacement tree for generations causing a breakdown in the natural order is also the main thrust of Elden Ring which george provided the backbone for
My only critique of your theory is that given the millennia of screwy weather who alive has any concept of a regular cyclic pattern? How does anyone know it needs to be fixed if broken is Their only frame of reference? It's been my opinion for a while now that early on GRRM thought irregular seasons would be "really cool" but then didn't actually follow thru. Unpredictable and irregular seasons that can last decades would have massive impact on morality, social modes, economics, EVERY aspect of life. But it barely has any noticeable affect on Planetos.
TL;DR Bloodstone Emperor is the Hero who corrupted the world tree. The Singers and the Green Men certainly used green magic in the beginning. Blood magic is more Asshai'i/end of the Great Empire of the Dawn. Bloodstone Emperor (Last Emp of GEotD, Long Night starter) is known for sacrificing and just straight up murdering to gain power. Murder to gain power IS sacrifice, actually lol. The empire had dragons, known because of the Five Forts, Fused Fortress at Old town, and any place that has round, black, fused stone where the Valeryians never reached. So the emperor was likely a dragonlord, too. A Hero corrupting power doesn't necessarily sound like Blood Emp, a villain from the start. It sound more like Azor Ahai, he who killed a lions and his Wife for power.
Azor's wife, not the lion's xD P.S. Valeria had glass candles, and I think that's yet more tech that held over from the Great Empire. I'm not against the idea that Singers could have them, but that's not how they surf the Astral. The use the trees and Greenseers. Fires have the candles and Dragon dreams. Waters... have Patchface?.. and Shade of the Evening. The glass candles is in regards to Michael's theory of Other creation. Hmm, a Trident. Blue Red on a Green.
Ooo, I think I have a nuance to add! 😊I had considered what stopped the weirwood spread and concluded that granite was the most probable explanation. It's just too hard. There it is, my one and only fan theory...lol
Even if the answer is "Magic" you still have to answer what the MAgic does. there is still a interaction of physical objects (planet and sun). And it isn't just long periods of Cold or Warm. The days are long for years or short for years, So that requires changes in angles of the planet (or North Hemisphere) relative to the sun, not just changers in weather or climate. My idea is that during Northern Hemisphere Winter the planet is in a stable orbit north of the normal Ecliptic (in our solar system, the ecliptic is the plane on which all the planets lie). Then every few years, something happens to cause the planet to shift to a new stable orbit south of the Ecliptic. (so it is a bi-stable orbit). When the Planet is north of the ecliptic, the Northern Hemisphere has the sun partially blocked by the rest of the planet and the days are shorter (and when south of the Ecliptic, the days are longer). Now what causes the Planet to orbit outside of the Ecliptic and causes its orbit to occasionally shift to the opposite side of the Ecliptic? Magic.
I think he said something like earth in a different state of imagination or something where its earth but a parallel fantasy multiverse version of earth basically. An imagination of a way earth could have been but still earth.
Ive always thought the length/duration of the winter is related to the blood spilled during the summer. Nothing to back that up but thats what I thought when I read the books for the first time.
I also have very little to back it up but do agree with you. I think it has something to do with the heart trees drinking blood and how much they get. If I can ever find enough good evidence it will probably become a theory but for now it's just a best guess.
I have a Theory.... please do tell me if I sound crazy...what if the Hammer of the waters that broke the arm of Dorne by the Children of the Forrest Magic caused the First Long Night especially after they tried a second time on the Neck of Westeros, even though that attempt failed it ushered in the imbalance of Seasons? Then the birth OR creation of the Others and BOOM ...the long night...."Life Finds a Way" -Ian Malcolm lol that last part was just for fun with Malcolm quote but am i crazy or is this Possible??
I don't know if the hammer of the waters was the exact same spell that knocked the seasons out of balance but I believe the hint that they used sacrifices to bring down the hammer shows the children were corrupting the nature magic as well and doing blood magic. If GRRM is making the statement that using the power of nature for war and blood magic is bad the children are not innocent. Both the children and the men used this stuff for blood magic and both likely had a role in corrupting the heart tree of the planet if that is what is going on.
My feeling: The world of ASOIAF is inherently unbalanced , tilting heavily one way or the other. Valryia is heavily Fire-aspected and the North is heavily Ice-aspected. My headcanon is that the world leans one way then the other way regularly, quickly enough that Humans in Westeros have records of the last one. My bet is that Valryia had a similar time, a Burning Summer, if you will. The Children and Man are neutral-aspected, so they can lean either way. The DragonLords tried to fix the imbalance, but wound up wiping themselves out by underestimating the sheer power of the imbalance.
there seems to be a long winter after each war except Robert's rebellion, The Dance, and After the Blackfyre Rebellions, perhaps sending nobles (with old magical blood) to the watch powered up the corrupted heart, but not Robert's Rebellion since they didn't send many nobles there (we really don't meet any except Thorn, and he doesn't have a faction)
It's pretty much certain that magic/the Wierwoods are responsible. Although I do like the idea of it being a Three Body Problem type of thing, but calmer. So instead of having "stable eras" and "chaotic eras", they have irregular seasons as the other stars get nearer or father away from the planet. They aren't massive enough or close enough to yoink Planetos from orbiting it's main star, but they are close enough to cast additional light, perhaps for years. Similarly it could be years before they come back around. *IF* Planetos just had a long eliptical orbit around its sun, the seasons would always be the same length. Like winter may be longer than summer, but it would be that way every year. Of course, for this to be the case, they'd need to mention multiple suns or even some "small moons" or "big stars" to represent the other sun(s). Which I don't think we have. So, it's probably the magic trees.
Current theory is basically the Valyrian's were using slave labor possibly immortal slaves bound to glass candles to control/use the magic of the fourteen flames. Then the faceless men started to take out their undying slave labor so then they couldn't harness/control the volcanos properly. Eventually they all blew up on them and the magic built off their power probably started to backfire and all essentially magically cursed the land like the breakdown of fire magic nuclear reactors.
I've thought for a while that the hot springs under Winterfell could be magically transformed into a volcano, effectively turning the North into a New Valyria. If you're correct that the Heart of Winter in the far North is the source of the imbalance, then maybe an application of fire magic and blood magic (I've always thought it would be the simultaneous burning of Shireen and the Winterfell Heart Tree) would counter that imbalance.
My theory is that ASOIAF takes place on earth in the far future, after a failed experiment by NASA to combat climate change by altering earth's orbit destroyed civilization and left us with irregular seasons.
I imagine their planet changes orbit every few years. Where it comes closer to the sun then farther away. It likely orbits slightly outside the goldilocks zone during winter and slightly past it during summer.
There is a certain amount of symbolism that I think supports a lot of what you're saying. I really like the direction you take the topic. There is a rather odd rhyme between the narratives Jon and Dany are in that I think escapes notice. Glaringly, the parts of the story that deal the most heavily with poison and corruption are those closest to fire. While I agree with your assessment of the Wall, I think your conclusion may be off the mark. Fear doesn't necessarily mean evil. Which is one of the reasons I think Aemon's "kill the boy" holds a relevance. I think we are too quick to demonize the Others when they may be the least corrupt.
I havent read the books or really dug into the lore that much. Reading many of your comments, it sounds as though the irradic Summer pattern is caused by a Weirwood Tree spell, or something to that effect? I'm over here thinking of a astrological reason for the long night. What type of orbit and rotation would a planetary body have for that type of seasonal irregularity? There are many quotes from the books that mention a Sun, Moon (there used to be two) and stars. Using this we can assume that their planet had a slightly irregular rotation and a slight wobble of the axis due to the two moons orbiting it. If the planet shed one of it's Moons, in that event, would reek havoc on their planets rotation and axis and create unpredictable seasonal patterns. Well... that's what I made myself believe anyway.
Correct me if im wrong but, what your explaining with the magic was done to combat the Andels. Not the First men. Thats why the first men keep the old gods. The andels pushed them back to the neck thats why the NORTH still holds the ways of the old gods.
I think my current timeline idea is the first men and children had a war. Children created the others to fight the first men, the first men possibly created some to fight the children. Then they had a pact to lock them all away and agreed on it together. Then along came the Andals later and messed all that up and slowly destroyed the foundations of the pact which eventually lead to the situation of our story where the pact is hanging on by a thread and the others are returning due to the weakening ward of the wall.
I love the theory as to why seasons are like that, one thing I'm still hung up on, is why do they still measure time in years. Why, if things have been this way for 6000 or so years, would they still be counting arbitrarily what (I assume) is 365 days, but 6000 of that? Why is the tradition of celebrating a "name day" every 365 days a thing? Nobody remembers why the wall even exists and they haven't had a "year" as we know it in that much time.... Maybe I'm a lil tistic, but that's always been the biggest gaping plot hole in the lore to me. "it was Geoffrey's 13th name day" WHY? Why does that mean anything to anybody?
Because 365 days is a convenient timespan for humans. Measuring time in 8 or 9 year chunks just doesn’t work for people, especially when it comes to farming, aging, etc. Plus, if your seasons are out of whack but your moon is still regular, tbe moon is the more reliable calendar. Plenty of cultures had lunar calendars. Hence why they’re called ‘moons’ and not months despite them etymologically meaning the same thing
My plant science professor said that redwoods, giant sequoias even ponderosa pines move X number of TONS of water every day. They move it via capillary action (of the xylem of phloem i can't recall which goes up and which goes down; it's been over 20 yrs guys crikey) and by absorbent material kinda sucking it from areas of lots of water to areas of less moisture not unlike osmosis (which is another phenomenon the use). But aside from capillary action, it's not a mechanical system. It is one of chemical forces. Moreover, there are no moving parts. We move a metric shit ton of water in the US every second. We have much to learn from the trees that do it easier than we breathe Water and its movement is one of the oldest harnesss power ever, aside from ppl. It's ancient and primordial and foundational to our society. It moves following fluid dynamics. Well so does air. So it's important shit. U noted large trees but I guess all trees do it, just on a smaller scale. Your theory... it checks out. Its insane. Just crazy enough A friend of a friend cut down a living fir tree at a campsite in the mountains one summer. Oh the ranger was unhappy. Ranger was super cool, just regular guy not like a cop. But he felt disrespected and rightly so. He could've arrested everyone (I wasn't there). But instead he had the idiot spend ALL FUCKING DAY cutting the tree into firewood. The saw barely cut at the end I'm told. I did see it that winter and holy shit! This thing was like 2' in diameter maybe 30". But it had put out an inverted waterfall that kept going in subzero temps. It's was hundreds of gallons. This was 6 months after it had been cut. And it moved like a glacier bc it's sap so it's full of sugars and stuff that keep it from freezing but will freeze if it got cold enough That's one small'ish tree. A dead tree in its dormant phase. Imagine a large tree during mid summer ? After a soaking rain? Forests soak up rainfall like a sponge bc first the canopy cover, then the thick organic O-horizon layer of the soil, which also soaks it up quickly then the A-horizon soils are also high in organic content Some water soaks down down into the shallow water table. And then some will eventually soak all the way down to deep GW. That's the life-giving reservoir for us humans. It's well protected been from mild to moderate enviro contamination. It might go down MILES. Humans think "oh the world is like 70% water !" Okay yeah I guess. In surface area. More than 95% of alllll the H20 on EARTH is salt water in the ocean. Then most of what's left exists in ice form. It's like 3% of all water is actually in ice or snow form, mostly Antartica. and Greenland but also all the glaciers . But mostly Iceland and great hiss
Interesting. I had always assumed the seasons were affected by magical forces, but this theory offers more depth than I had thought Martin might go into. Hopefully, we shall see before too much longer...
Pretty sure they had a treaty with the first men to stop the cutting down of the wierwoods because they were too numerous. So when the andels came along and threatened their extermination they created the WW along with the king of winter
I think they made the treaty to stop cutting the weirwoods after the pact because the others were hanging over their head and they were told only feeding the weirwoods blood would keep them away forever.
I been trying to figure out Planetos orbit around its star to match what’s described. It’d be like some kind of weird ellipsis or it would drift closer and further from it’s sun. Or magic…
I believe both the heart of winter and the heart of summer have been corrupted. If the heart of summer had been restored, the Doom would not still reign in Valyria. I don't think that hearts of winter/summer need restoration, I think they must be destroyed and replaced with a different system.
What irregular seasons? There is a typical Winter Spring Summer Autumn annual rhythm. Agriculture seems to happen in a yearly rhythm and not over the entire year. With over the entire year I mean that there are no planting seasons. then there would be just planting. Kind of like that different fields grow in different speeds. While one field was just planted the other is harvested. Obviously that's about plants that take a long period to grow. There is an easy prove to this Theory. When Martin describes the circumstances of scenes. speaks he of trees that loose their leaves? Speaks he about some Autumn/fall look? If he does then there is every year a winter. There is just a second rhythm with winters. Those winters are tough winters that last for multiple years. Does that have to do with magic? Doesn't really make sense as these rhythms are also there when no magic was around. And then there is the Long Night. A very cold winter that can last for a decade. Normal winters can last for years. This is...maybe best spoken about like an old curse and the magic that is related to the curse is then causing an even stronger winter. Kind of like the White Walkers spread cold themselves. You say something "stupid". You speak for nearly 5 minutes and then you say "easy explanation". That's not easy. I'm more a favorite of not telling. Don't give me a stupid explanation. Just leave it as a rule of nature. Not everything has to be explained. Some things can just be. A medieval society doesn't have to be able to explain planetary circulation around the sun and the effect of moons and other planets. Maybe the sun has just heat circles. As we know from real earth that the power of the suns can differ and can result in a little "ice age". On earth it was like a colder decade. But there is no reason why people should even be able to explain that. So there is no reason to explain that. So what is the result in a "stupid" society? What did the church say for centuries? It's the gods or it's magic. Any explanation Martin gives in the future can be at maximum a partial explanation like what I said about the Night King but no complete explanation. Saying nothing is best. 🤣funny would be when Martin says that the planet is in the eye of the giant Makumbo. And a long night happens every time when his wife throws him out of the cave.
Too bad Tweedledee and Tweedledum the GoT showrunners didn't deign it necessary to explain the Westeroesian climate in the last season they crapped out. Because I have absolutely no confidence any longer that Mr. George One R Martin is ever going to finish the books. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I don't think I will be.
Pretty sure all of this is wrong, I think you’re getting bad conclusions because you have some of the history wrong. I can elaborate if you want First off, green magic is based on blood. They also created a super weapon in the others to fight a war they were losing against the humans. Or the hammer of the waters, blood magic super weapon.
thats not true. there was a scene where they talked about circles and rotations in the citadel. even the first scene of the got intro is astonomical. please grrm, just leave it instead of fucking it up.
its interesting, the pattern of oppressive groups who exploit weaker populations for power- but then romanticized over the course of thousand year p.r. campaigns. and dany is obviously a symbol of liberation, but are there other liberator characters? and who are they? i love this! great series!
The additional theory that Bloodraven caused the false spring to allow an opportunity for Rhaegar and Lyanna to meet during an otherwise long winter - thus setting up the conditions for the Prince Who Was Promised - makes me further buy into this. The tree man was able to have a real, though temporary, effect in the seasons.
This makes so much sense regarding the faceless men. If the slaves in the volcano mines were fire wights, then the gift of death truly was a gift.
The faceless men would see zombification as the ultimate sin. So was the original faceless man a Jon type that was able to break the cycle?
Yeah it has been brought up in comments how easily the slaves could have died naturally in those mines without having to pray for the gift. Also the idea GRRM has mentioned in other drafts of AFFC where it mentions people having their life force bound to glass candles and being unable to die as long as the flame lasts.
It seems he has all the set up he needs if he wants to go that direction.
I do agree I think that is the plot thread that will yank Arya back and make her whole arc end game relevant is that they will view this undying power source as the ultimate evil.
As for what is the first faceless men it is an interesting thought, but I haven't really looked deeply enough into it lately to have much to say. A very good question to look into though with this in mind.
It's not often that i come across a new main series theory for ASOIAF, especially one that makes so much sense. Congrats! This one is great and actually will be in my headcanon from now on.
The idea that the older religions are more cruel than the newer ones is a theme about which H. P. Lovecraft wrote quite a lot. There are plenty of references to HPL in Martin's works.
I have heard an opinion on Twitter, stating that despite the Seven seemingly not being real, the one thing they are real at is calling out the Old God's and R'hllor as both demon worship. I'm not sure if I agree personally, but it is something to make you think.
The weirwoods are connected like the enormous fungus that is under Upper Peninsula, Michagan. It is all one living thing. The things we see above ground are called fruiting bodies.
It is clear GRRM was inspired by real world mega organisms.
Or the clonal aspen grove in Utah - Pando!
The root system is estimated to be several thousand years old with some estimates up to 14,000. Each individual 'tree' only lives about 100 years but the root system regularly sends up new shoots
or the Oregon Humongous Fungus which is considered the largest single living organism on Earth
Fungi freak me out for this exact reason. Nature, WTF.
I think it's much more likely modeled after quaking aspen groves which grow dozens or hundreds (in standout cases, thousands) trees from the same rootstock.
"There must always be a Stark at Winterfell." There is. He is in the collapsed part of the crypts. These words won't be realized until *after* the wall is brought down, the others dealt with, and the corruption doesn't end.
The north will remember that there is still a Stark at Winterfell. John, as a dead Stark, will be allowed access to the hidden areas of the crypts where he finds Bran the Builder in the roots of the tree at Winterfell.
Exactly what he does there, I'm not sure. Kill the Bran the Builder, maybe. But that's more of Arya's job to make sure that "all men must die". There are probably a bunch of CotF there as well who were able to crawl up from underneath. Who knows what this encounter will entail. Probably figure it out in the last book.
As is repeated over and over and over throughout the books, Jon is NOT a Stark. The Kings of Winter keep telling him in his dreams- "You're no Stark. This is not your place. Go away!".
But he is a Stark, just not one born of the male line and one corrupted by Targaryen genes. He probably has more Stark DNA because of how mitochondrial DNA passes on the X chromosome. If Leana Stark is the combined collection of Northern Houses, then she would’ve passed an uncorrupted DNA line of the She Wolves of Winter. The Targaryen line would have 50% of the father’s mother’s side and 50% the father’s male line. Since Targaryen Women were often kept in the family, they’re DNA will be mainly the Valerian family mitochondrial DNA with incorporations of First Men, Andal, and Rhoynar mitochondrial DNA heavily influences the male Targaryen line, therefore, this may be why we get more greenseers and male dragon dreamers after the Dance. These men are heavily influenced by their mother’s line of DNA. Rhaegar married outside of his line, but the question is why? He sought brides that were not Valerian what-so-ever. Was this part of the prophecies he read? We don’t know much about Rhoyanish Magic or prophecies from their side. The pack of Ice and Fire is Leanna, but Elia is Dorenish, and Daenaerys has the most Valerian/Targeryn blood. So Green, Blue, and Red Magic to create White Magic?
@@persephone342 White magic? Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?
Arborist here who would like to give some input on your wierwood wall theory. Most of the reason trees are able to move hundreds of gallons of water up their trunk is due to water evaporating off of the surface of the leaves. Without leaves, as in, buried in a wall, these trees could not be "pumping" water anywhere, and they would all die without exposed foliage. They also need leaves exposed to air to "breathe". Some glaciers in Glacier national park have rivers flowing out of them for hundreds of years yet never get any smaller or melt away. The wall could "weep" every day and not disappear. If you need magic to freeze the water, why can't you have magic to move the water there from underground springs? The water would freeze on the surface without magic also.
George didn't even know that a 700 foot wall was as immense as it was when it appeared in the show. He said he imagined it about 1/3 of the size. I doubt he's making complicated systems based on modern physics and agriculture to do things like this. They are called Heart Trees because the sap is red.
part of the magic of the weirwoods is that they never die. so they'd keep living even when encased in ice
15:03 "stop using volcanoes to hatch napalm bats by throwing slaves into the lava"
lmao stop ruining the valyrians' good time /s
So this video got me thinking. Is everyone misunderstanding which direction the wall is defending? A big ice wall being used to keep ice creatures at bay? Alysanne Targaryen tried to cross the wall on Silverwing but SW refused
I imagine she could just fly around?
Maybe, but it's about the warding magic that the wall possesses. Cold hands can't pass. Warg consciousness bonds also don't pass. You can see this with Jon and Ghost and also Hodor and Bran with the warded trees at bloodravens cave @@mausklick1635
@@mausklick1635she probably could but knowing that dragon stubbornly refused to go there she likely misliked the idea.
Kinda random thought, but isn’t the general thought that Valyrian mages kept the 14 flames banked (with spells and blood) and the FM killed the mages allowing the volcanos to erupted? This destroyed a millennia old culture and The Land of the Long Summer. This didn’t happen that long ago all told, 400-500 years. Now they need to destroy the magic holding another millennia old system in place and destroy the Land of Always Winter?
Company of the Cat has an interesting theory that the Weirwoods started out as Oak trees, and that the Children found a way to 'wight' the oaks, freezing them in place between being alive and going dormant in autumn, in order for the children to still access the greenseer networks during the winter. She suggests that they began doing this more as the First Men destroyed trees, owing to the dwindling number of already scarce Greenseers. Since ice freezes and preserves, and wighting the trees would take place in autumn on the cusp of winter, it makes sense that tapping into the Heart of Winter would be how the Children did this.
If we consider the idea that the Long Night happened as a result of the Hammer of the Waters and the Blood Betrayal, with the Bloodstone Emperor attempting some occult ritual involving a red comet that failed, because the Children used the Hammer to manipulate the moon and cause the seas to rise and sink the arm and this caused the comet to strike the moon, it could be that in the ensuing chaos of the Long Night, a rogue faction of Children decided to unleash the Heart of Winter and try to destroy the humans once and for all. They were defeated but not vanquished, and the Wall was created using the Ice magic flowing from the Heart to keep them at bay. The Others could attack again without the Wall, but the Wall in turn messes up the seasons of the planet; this sets up for Bran to solve the problem by bringing down the Wall and making peace with the Others.
This sounds too "pipe dream" for me.
The hammer hitting the moon?! Other than the eerye's moon door the moon is almost never mentioned in the books. And never in a way that is interactable by anyone. Other than the comet and that the sun raises and falls each day, there is not much that happens overhead.
There are a bunch of romantic sayings thrown about which include the moon, but no evidence that anything moon related matters to the story.
@@emrek99205 The Hammer doesn't 'hit' the moon, but it may manipulate it's orbit to affect the tidal forces of planetos, allowing for the seas to swallow up the Arm of Dorne. That being said, we do have evidence from the stories of House Dayne, the account of Azor Ahai's sacrifice of Nissa Nissa, and the Qartheen dragon origins legend that all point to some kind of collision that cracked the moon long ago
“Lol, get wighted, scrub”
@@emrek99205 the moon is rumoured to be the source of dragons
What if the reason that the Stark words are ‘Winter is Coming’ is a warning to keep the old ways literally? What if it’s saying to keep the old ways, sacrificing bastards to the children or the walls. Otherwise, the wall’s magic will fade. It will come down, and winter will literally come in the form of The Others’ return. When the old ways were forgotten to time, winter came.
Props for a creative and well-reasoned theory. Although, in our world there is a maximum height that water can travel vertically up a tree. Its around 426 feet. Water molecules have strong cohesive forces that make them attracted to other water molecules but these forces are only stronger than the force of gravity up to around 426 ft. But i suppose if there is magic involved that could be used to explain the 700 ft thing.
I do think glaciation could push the ice up a bit higher than the tops of the trees as well but yeah probably a little magic needed to get that much difference
There’s also the thing where George said he accidentally made the wall too tall. He didn’t realize how big 700 feet actually was.
Engineering wise, I bet there are ways around that, so that you don't have to pump it all the way in one go.
I am watching these videos and repeatedly get an add about why trees are good for us and help our environment. I am thinking that's what they want you to believe......
This theory makes the "Winter is coming." not a warning, but a threat. I like it.
Given that the North gets "Summer snows", it looks to me more like Westeros has intermittent short ice ages in addition to entirely normal seasons, with the characters simply calling these ice ages "winter".
Weren’t true “summer snows” moreso just that the North is cold enough/far enough north that even in the unnatural Westerosi summer, it would see snowfall?
I don't think you know what an ice age is.
It could be the winter comes when not enough blood is sacrificed to the Wyrwoods.
This is sooooo good. You have the most unified and thematic theories. At this point, I’ll be super sad if it ends any other way. Thank you !
same lol. I think it fits what we know of george's world views as well.
Hmmm. I always thought that it was because of the Wall and once it came down, things would go back to normal.
Not sure exactly how it would work, but the fact that the trees interrupt the ability to warg could be a product of the area being anti-magic or at least having an anti-magic shell.
The dragons needed the extra magic from the comet in order to hatch. Pretty safe to say dragons are magical. They cannot cross the Wall or what magic that allows them to fly will be interrupted.
Silverwing may have sensed this and had to use aerodynamics to turn around. Wasn't that they didn't want to fly over it, they literally couldn't!
This would keep the white walkers out as well as they cannot be controlled when they pass into the area.
There may be a bit of magic contained in the dragon glass forced into the heart of each Other in the wall to keep them alive. Getting a dead body close enough to that might allow it to be reanimated for a short time. Or maybe if the dead body had dragon glass in its pocket...
Dragon glass may be erroneously associated with obsidian which is a volcanic rock. It may instead be meteoric rock. If the comet is associated with magic and dragons it would make sense to call the polished rock left at an impact site as Dragon Glass.
The sword Dawn was made from this type of rock, but from a direct recent source. Valerian steel may be made from the same but from older sources left in the ground for millions of years and the battery has worn down.
How would these defeat an other or white walker then? Simple. Lightning can ruin or kill electronics, right? Same with magic. Too much of it all at once overloads the circuits or body and causes it to burn out or malfunction.
If stabbed with it when alive will hurt, it is still sharp, but the magic itself won't kill what is alive. If the dead is stabbed with it, it could become alive, be cut and then die for real. This instantaneous dead, alive, dead, shocks the system like electricity.
"What is dead may never die" true. But if you bring it to life first then it can. The iron born taught us that.
I don’t think the reason for the irregular seasons lacks any scientific explanation, because George has said this in a heart to heart interview with Sibel Kekilli:
“These are not my dragons (referring to his dragon figures collection), cause my dragons only have two legs. They don’t have front legs. Other dragons by fantasy writers have four legs and wings, i just have two legs and wings.
Why?
Cause it’s more scientifically accurate.
There’s no animal on earth that has four legs plus wings.
Nobody has that sort of thing.
So when it’s fantasy i try to…
I’m too much of a science fiction guy, I, I wanna make it accurate here.”
This is a neat idea. What's more, I like this format as a direction I might go with my own budding channel. With or without future ASOIAF content.
I think GRRM misdirects time with Old Nan. Yes, I think she is one of the few truth-tellers but I agree with your theory that she may be a Child of the Forest. The misdirect is time. When she talks about the long winter it could in fact be anywhere from 50 to 5-10 thousand years (or more) ago because we know that Children can live extraordinarily long lives.
I think this changes the whole story of what happens when.
My theory is that there has been a fight between the Night King and Bran the Builder that has also lasted many millennia. Therefore, I think the seasons change in regard to "who is winning" in that timeframe. Winter is coming when the Night King starts to take offensive measures.
Idk he says its supposed to be a "fantasy" answer and not a natural/science fiction one....but if a planet had two moons, and then one of those moons was destroyed somehow, it would throw the orbit of the planet entirely out of whack and could very easily lead to irregular seasons.
Sooo the world tree needs a pacemaker?
TWhy has no one equated the delay in the book releases to the Winters in Westeros?
What if GRRM has all the books written but is releasing them on a timeline that makes fans bitter like a Long Winter would? Just another level of fan emerson that brings readers deeper into the story. All hope fades as the Winters get longer. people forget what Summer was like. Years padd and we worry about mortality of someone in a way we never would have otherwise.
That would be some epic art and truly a crown on all of his achievements... and an epic troll.
I also assumed the last books would never be released because GRRM always likes to subvert story tropes. And what's the biggest story trope? That stories have an end.
He simply got lazy and found cooler projects like TVShows, Red Carpets etc..
He wont publish before he needs new money
this was in my recommendations and you've earned an INSTANT subscription from me!
Maybe your right and all the weirwoods on plantos are connected, that’s why they don’t rot. They always have water because their connected to the network. Same reason they petrify and not rot.
Honestly the Faith of the Seven looks better each and every day.
I agree I like the 7
I don't doubt that there is a connexion between the weirwoods and the COTF, that's been stated. But I can't find any reference to what the climate was like before the COTF. It might have been in balance, it might not.
My personal favorite theory is that the core of the planet is not molten iron like ours, but a molten habitat for all the dragons that ever were or will be. They move around a lot, which changes the tilt of the planet's axis and therefore the seasons. Actions by the characters in ASOIAF can attract or repel this underground population - and these actions are informed by their own personal histories, cultures and preferences. Us humans are plenty evil enough without hanging it on a bunch of trees. The weirwood is an effect, not a cause imo. GRRM may be commenting (at length) on the human tendency to make changes to the planet for personal short term gain without knowing or caring about the consequences.
In the world of ice and fire it mentions in passing how some maesters believe the seasons used to be in balance until some great cataclysm. And if I'm not mistaken I believe the narrator dismisses the idea as being foolish or else lacking sufficient evidence.
Hell yeah based GRRM! I basically agree, as always love you and appreciate you!
I love and appreciate all of you here as well
I'm going with he thought it was a cool idea but now by has now idea what to do with it.
Your idea sounds legit.
What if weirwoods are not actually natural trees, but actually humans/children of the forest turned into a tree?
Good video. Look forward to watchig watching these.
Very interesting!
Well done!!!!
a dynasty taking power from a magical world tree and then replacing it with a self serving replacement tree for generations causing a breakdown in the natural order is also the main thrust of Elden Ring which george provided the backbone for
This is a very nice theory. Bravo.
My only critique of your theory is that given the millennia of screwy weather who alive has any concept of a regular cyclic pattern?
How does anyone know it needs to be fixed if broken is Their only frame of reference?
It's been my opinion for a while now that early on GRRM thought irregular seasons would be "really cool" but then didn't actually follow thru.
Unpredictable and irregular seasons that can last decades would have massive impact on morality, social modes, economics, EVERY aspect of life. But it barely has any noticeable affect on Planetos.
Now I know how true subversion of expectations works
TL;DR Bloodstone Emperor is the Hero who corrupted the world tree.
The Singers and the Green Men certainly used green magic in the beginning. Blood magic is more Asshai'i/end of the Great Empire of the Dawn.
Bloodstone Emperor (Last Emp of GEotD, Long Night starter) is known for sacrificing and just straight up murdering to gain power. Murder to gain power IS sacrifice, actually lol.
The empire had dragons, known because of the Five Forts, Fused Fortress at Old town, and any place that has round, black, fused stone where the Valeryians never reached. So the emperor was likely a dragonlord, too.
A Hero corrupting power doesn't necessarily sound like Blood Emp, a villain from the start. It sound more like Azor Ahai, he who killed a lions and his Wife for power.
Azor's wife, not the lion's xD
P.S. Valeria had glass candles, and I think that's yet more tech that held over from the Great Empire.
I'm not against the idea that Singers could have them, but that's not how they surf the Astral. The use the trees and Greenseers. Fires have the candles and Dragon dreams. Waters... have Patchface?.. and Shade of the Evening.
The glass candles is in regards to Michael's theory of Other creation.
Hmm, a Trident. Blue Red on a Green.
Ooo, I think I have a nuance to add! 😊I had considered what stopped the weirwood spread and concluded that granite was the most probable explanation. It's just too hard. There it is, my one and only fan theory...lol
Even if the answer is "Magic" you still have to answer what the MAgic does. there is still a interaction of physical objects (planet and sun). And it isn't just long periods of Cold or Warm. The days are long for years or short for years, So that requires changes in angles of the planet (or North Hemisphere) relative to the sun, not just changers in weather or climate. My idea is that during Northern Hemisphere Winter the planet is in a stable orbit north of the normal Ecliptic (in our solar system, the ecliptic is the plane on which all the planets lie). Then every few years, something happens to cause the planet to shift to a new stable orbit south of the Ecliptic. (so it is a bi-stable orbit). When the Planet is north of the ecliptic, the Northern Hemisphere has the sun partially blocked by the rest of the planet and the days are shorter (and when south of the Ecliptic, the days are longer). Now what causes the Planet to orbit outside of the Ecliptic and causes its orbit to occasionally shift to the opposite side of the Ecliptic? Magic.
You're right but I think this falls more likely into the category of "it happens because the author wants it too" hence GRRMs answer of "magic".
Ive always thought it strange that George has said that the planet is earth. Not sure if I made that up or I heard that from him
I think he said something like earth in a different state of imagination or something where its earth but a parallel fantasy multiverse version of earth basically. An imagination of a way earth could have been but still earth.
I love Elden Ring lore.
Ive always thought the length/duration of the winter is related to the blood spilled during the summer. Nothing to back that up but thats what I thought when I read the books for the first time.
I also have very little to back it up but do agree with you. I think it has something to do with the heart trees drinking blood and how much they get. If I can ever find enough good evidence it will probably become a theory but for now it's just a best guess.
I have a Theory.... please do tell me if I sound crazy...what if the Hammer of the waters that broke the arm of Dorne by the Children of the Forrest Magic caused the First Long Night especially after they tried a second time on the Neck of Westeros, even though that attempt failed it ushered in the imbalance of Seasons? Then the birth OR creation of the Others and BOOM ...the long night...."Life Finds a Way" -Ian Malcolm lol that last part was just for fun with Malcolm quote but am i crazy or is this Possible??
I don't know if the hammer of the waters was the exact same spell that knocked the seasons out of balance but I believe the hint that they used sacrifices to bring down the hammer shows the children were corrupting the nature magic as well and doing blood magic.
If GRRM is making the statement that using the power of nature for war and blood magic is bad the children are not innocent. Both the children and the men used this stuff for blood magic and both likely had a role in corrupting the heart tree of the planet if that is what is going on.
Maybe the doom of valyria is tied up with all this as well? Break the wall and valyria becomes normal maybe
People like you are why George will never finish the books.
The fan theories are better than anything he has planned.
Nah
Are there werewoods in Essos?
My feeling: The world of ASOIAF is inherently unbalanced , tilting heavily one way or the other. Valryia is heavily Fire-aspected and the North is heavily Ice-aspected. My headcanon is that the world leans one way then the other way regularly, quickly enough that Humans in Westeros have records of the last one. My bet is that Valryia had a similar time, a Burning Summer, if you will. The Children and Man are neutral-aspected, so they can lean either way. The DragonLords tried to fix the imbalance, but wound up wiping themselves out by underestimating the sheer power of the imbalance.
BRILLIANT 😎😎😎
there seems to be a long winter after each war except Robert's rebellion, The Dance, and After the Blackfyre Rebellions, perhaps sending nobles (with old magical blood) to the watch powered up the corrupted heart, but not Robert's Rebellion since they didn't send many nobles there (we really don't meet any except Thorn, and he doesn't have a faction)
Probably an eliptical orbit, and a more tilted axis of their planet.
It's pretty much certain that magic/the Wierwoods are responsible. Although I do like the idea of it being a Three Body Problem type of thing, but calmer. So instead of having "stable eras" and "chaotic eras", they have irregular seasons as the other stars get nearer or father away from the planet. They aren't massive enough or close enough to yoink Planetos from orbiting it's main star, but they are close enough to cast additional light, perhaps for years. Similarly it could be years before they come back around. *IF* Planetos just had a long eliptical orbit around its sun, the seasons would always be the same length. Like winter may be longer than summer, but it would be that way every year.
Of course, for this to be the case, they'd need to mention multiple suns or even some "small moons" or "big stars" to represent the other sun(s). Which I don't think we have. So, it's probably the magic trees.
What are your thoughts on the Doom of V?
Current theory is basically the Valyrian's were using slave labor possibly immortal slaves bound to glass candles to control/use the magic of the fourteen flames. Then the faceless men started to take out their undying slave labor so then they couldn't harness/control the volcanos properly. Eventually they all blew up on them and the magic built off their power probably started to backfire and all essentially magically cursed the land like the breakdown of fire magic nuclear reactors.
I've thought for a while that the hot springs under Winterfell could be magically transformed into a volcano, effectively turning the North into a New Valyria.
If you're correct that the Heart of Winter in the far North is the source of the imbalance, then maybe an application of fire magic and blood magic (I've always thought it would be the simultaneous burning of Shireen and the Winterfell Heart Tree) would counter that imbalance.
Probably stuck in tree time
So Brandon Builder made the wall Attack on Titan style?
My theory is that ASOIAF takes place on earth in the far future, after a failed experiment by NASA to combat climate change by altering earth's orbit destroyed civilization and left us with irregular seasons.
Have you read the Fifth Season Trilogy?
I haven't
I imagine their planet changes orbit every few years. Where it comes closer to the sun then farther away. It likely orbits slightly outside the goldilocks zone during winter and slightly past it during summer.
There is a certain amount of symbolism that I think supports a lot of what you're saying. I really like the direction you take the topic.
There is a rather odd rhyme between the narratives Jon and Dany are in that I think escapes notice. Glaringly, the parts of the story that deal the most heavily with poison and corruption are those closest to fire. While I agree with your assessment of the Wall, I think your conclusion may be off the mark. Fear doesn't necessarily mean evil. Which is one of the reasons I think Aemon's "kill the boy" holds a relevance. I think we are too quick to demonize the Others when they may be the least corrupt.
Algormancy!
Great stuff!
Subbed.
I havent read the books or really dug into the lore that much. Reading many of your comments, it sounds as though the irradic Summer pattern is caused by a Weirwood Tree spell, or something to that effect?
I'm over here thinking of a astrological reason for the long night.
What type of orbit and rotation would a planetary body have for that type of seasonal irregularity?
There are many quotes from the books that mention a Sun, Moon (there used to be two) and stars. Using this we can assume that their planet had a slightly irregular rotation and a slight wobble of the axis due to the two moons orbiting it.
If the planet shed one of it's Moons, in that event, would reek havoc on their planets rotation and axis and create unpredictable seasonal patterns.
Well... that's what I made myself believe anyway.
There is a heart of darkness in stygai and it is decidedly not fixed.
Correct me if im wrong but, what your explaining with the magic was done to combat the Andels. Not the First men. Thats why the first men keep the old gods. The andels pushed them back to the neck thats why the NORTH still holds the ways of the old gods.
I think my current timeline idea is the first men and children had a war. Children created the others to fight the first men, the first men possibly created some to fight the children. Then they had a pact to lock them all away and agreed on it together. Then along came the Andals later and messed all that up and slowly destroyed the foundations of the pact which eventually lead to the situation of our story where the pact is hanging on by a thread and the others are returning due to the weakening ward of the wall.
I love the theory as to why seasons are like that, one thing I'm still hung up on, is why do they still measure time in years. Why, if things have been this way for 6000 or so years, would they still be counting arbitrarily what (I assume) is 365 days, but 6000 of that? Why is the tradition of celebrating a "name day" every 365 days a thing? Nobody remembers why the wall even exists and they haven't had a "year" as we know it in that much time.... Maybe I'm a lil tistic, but that's always been the biggest gaping plot hole in the lore to me. "it was Geoffrey's 13th name day" WHY? Why does that mean anything to anybody?
Because 365 days is a convenient timespan for humans. Measuring time in 8 or 9 year chunks just doesn’t work for people, especially when it comes to farming, aging, etc.
Plus, if your seasons are out of whack but your moon is still regular, tbe moon is the more reliable calendar. Plenty of cultures had lunar calendars. Hence why they’re called ‘moons’ and not months despite them etymologically meaning the same thing
My plant science professor said that redwoods, giant sequoias even ponderosa pines move X number of TONS of water every day. They move it via capillary action (of the xylem of phloem i can't recall which goes up and which goes down; it's been over 20 yrs guys crikey) and by absorbent material kinda sucking it from areas of lots of water to areas of less moisture not unlike osmosis (which is another phenomenon the use).
But aside from capillary action, it's not a mechanical system. It is one of chemical forces.
Moreover, there are no moving parts.
We move a metric shit ton of water in the US every second. We have much to learn from the trees that do it easier than we breathe
Water and its movement is one of the oldest harnesss power ever, aside from ppl. It's ancient and primordial and foundational to our society.
It moves following fluid dynamics. Well so does air. So it's important shit.
U noted large trees but I guess all trees do it, just on a smaller scale.
Your theory... it checks out.
Its insane. Just crazy enough
A friend of a friend cut down a living fir tree at a campsite in the mountains one summer. Oh the ranger was unhappy. Ranger was super cool, just regular guy not like a cop. But he felt disrespected and rightly so.
He could've arrested everyone (I wasn't there). But instead he had the idiot spend ALL FUCKING DAY cutting the tree into firewood. The saw barely cut at the end I'm told.
I did see it that winter and holy shit! This thing was like 2' in diameter maybe 30". But it had put out an inverted waterfall that kept going in subzero temps. It's was hundreds of gallons. This was 6 months after it had been cut.
And it moved like a glacier bc it's sap so it's full of sugars and stuff that keep it from freezing but will freeze if it got cold enough
That's one small'ish tree. A dead tree in its dormant phase.
Imagine a large tree during mid summer ? After a soaking rain? Forests soak up rainfall like a sponge bc first the canopy cover, then the thick organic O-horizon layer of the soil, which also soaks it up quickly then the A-horizon soils are also high in organic content
Some water soaks down down into the shallow water table. And then some will eventually soak all the way down to deep GW.
That's the life-giving reservoir for us humans. It's well protected been from mild to moderate enviro contamination. It might go down MILES.
Humans think "oh the world is like 70% water !" Okay yeah I guess. In surface area.
More than 95% of alllll the H20 on EARTH is salt water in the ocean.
Then most of what's left exists in ice form. It's like 3% of all water is actually in ice or snow form, mostly Antartica. and Greenland but also all the glaciers .
But mostly Iceland and great hiss
Interesting. I had always assumed the seasons were affected by magical forces, but this theory offers more depth than I had thought Martin might go into. Hopefully, we shall see before too much longer...
Your theory is a damn Good one Sir!!!
Love this ‘corrupted heart beat’ thing!! It’s the only thing that makes sense
Dude what is your patreon?
Is the GOT world flat or round?
I would have to guess round, although the seasons might not be determined in the same way as our world I do think it mirrors ours in many general ways
Pretty sure they had a treaty with the first men to stop the cutting down of the wierwoods because they were too numerous. So when the andels came along and threatened their extermination they created the WW along with the king of winter
I think they made the treaty to stop cutting the weirwoods after the pact because the others were hanging over their head and they were told only feeding the weirwoods blood would keep them away forever.
I been trying to figure out Planetos orbit around its star to match what’s described. It’d be like some kind of weird ellipsis or it would drift closer and further from it’s sun. Or magic…
I believe both the heart of winter and the heart of summer have been corrupted. If the heart of summer had been restored, the Doom would not still reign in Valyria. I don't think that hearts of winter/summer need restoration, I think they must be destroyed and replaced with a different system.
What about the broken moon?
So the Doom of Valeria was a "heart attack"? in a "stroke" the Valerians were wiped out.
The more important question is, why haven't they invented steam machines yet
The weather control system is on the fritz
Thanks!
What irregular seasons?
There is a typical Winter Spring Summer Autumn annual rhythm. Agriculture seems to happen in a yearly rhythm and not over the entire year. With over the entire year I mean that there are no planting seasons. then there would be just planting. Kind of like that different fields grow in different speeds. While one field was just planted the other is harvested. Obviously that's about plants that take a long period to grow.
There is an easy prove to this Theory. When Martin describes the circumstances of scenes. speaks he of trees that loose their leaves? Speaks he about some Autumn/fall look? If he does then there is every year a winter.
There is just a second rhythm with winters. Those winters are tough winters that last for multiple years.
Does that have to do with magic? Doesn't really make sense as these rhythms are also there when no magic was around.
And then there is the Long Night. A very cold winter that can last for a decade. Normal winters can last for years. This is...maybe best spoken about like an old curse and the magic that is related to the curse is then causing an even stronger winter.
Kind of like the White Walkers spread cold themselves.
You say something "stupid". You speak for nearly 5 minutes and then you say "easy explanation". That's not easy.
I'm more a favorite of not telling. Don't give me a stupid explanation. Just leave it as a rule of nature. Not everything has to be explained. Some things can just be.
A medieval society doesn't have to be able to explain planetary circulation around the sun and the effect of moons and other planets. Maybe the sun has just heat circles. As we know from real earth that the power of the suns can differ and can result in a little "ice age". On earth it was like a colder decade.
But there is no reason why people should even be able to explain that. So there is no reason to explain that.
So what is the result in a "stupid" society? What did the church say for centuries?
It's the gods or it's magic. Any explanation Martin gives in the future can be at maximum a partial explanation like what I said about the Night King but no complete explanation.
Saying nothing is best.
🤣funny would be when Martin says that the planet is in the eye of the giant Makumbo. And a long night happens every time when his wife throws him out of the cave.
Too bad Tweedledee and Tweedledum the GoT showrunners didn't deign it necessary to explain the Westeroesian climate in the last season they crapped out. Because I have absolutely no confidence any longer that Mr. George One R Martin is ever going to finish the books. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I don't think I will be.
i think he’ll finish winds of winter but a dream
of spring will stay that, a dream
Who creates the moral base that says what is right or wrong or what you should or shouldn’t be doing?
God.
GRRM
Pretty sure all of this is wrong, I think you’re getting bad conclusions because you have some of the history wrong. I can elaborate if you want
First off, green magic is based on blood. They also created a super weapon in the others to fight a war they were losing against the humans. Or the hammer of the waters, blood magic super weapon.
No, none of it makes any sense. The irregular seasons come from the Whitewalkers awakening from their hibernation cycle.
As it is now, it's mystery for the sake of mystery...
Don't ever go full JJ Abrams.
Capillary action.
no moon, or smaller moon
They live on a different planet what do you expect lmao
Dehydrate!
Binary solar system too a blackhole.
thats not true. there was a scene where they talked about circles and rotations in the citadel. even the first scene of the got intro is astonomical. please grrm, just leave it instead of fucking it up.
Say decoy one more time
Lisan al Gaib!
its interesting, the pattern of oppressive groups who exploit weaker populations for power- but then romanticized over the course of thousand year p.r. campaigns. and dany is obviously a symbol of liberation, but are there other liberator characters? and who are they? i love this! great series!
Climate change
It's the three-body problem!
Doesn't sound like ASOIAF at all. Sounds like a mad up fan fiction. Sounds like this guy saw Attack on Titan and wanted to make something similar