Thanks for the opportunity to see a Tyne in action. I spent years making parts for industrial Tynes amongst others, without getting the chance to see the engines running or even knowing where the parts fitted in many cases.
I worked for a few years in a high decibel environment where we were required to get tested twice a year to make sure our hearing was not being affected. Being young and knowing hearing loss does not get better I also wore both the foam ear plugs with muffs overtop. During one of my testing appointments with the audiologists I learned that the foam ear plugs are best at cutting sound but the muffs over them don't add much to lowering it further. It does lower some but would not double the drop. I still wore both as the foam was easy to leave in all shift and use the muffs when passing thru the high sound areas. Quote "National Institute for Occupational Safety & Health- wearing double protection can provide an increase in protection of 5 to 10 decibels." Enjoy Osh. Been there many times. Only place you can see a B2 stealth bomber lead a vic formation with a B52 and a B1b. lol
Agent JayZ, your knowledge is amazing! Love your videos! You gave me a little advice a while back on a international solar gas turbine generator made in the 70’s. We finally got it working. The leaky seal in the front has not leaked after I changed the oil and added a drip line to make sure there wasn’t oil dripping into the intake. We also added an exhaust stack to vent the exhaust farther away from the intake because the exhaust was swirling around back into the intake and causing high temperatures. We also washed the compressor section with the help of the mechanic who services pt-6 engines for crop spraying near us. Last night we had to run it for power during an electrical outage and it finally ran great! Hope we can keep it going another few years. We were looking at a new generator for 200000 bucks so it’s nice that ours is ok for the time being!!
Good ol IHC.....who says they only made combines....? It would be nice to know the rated horsepower of my little turbo shaft Tiernay. It drove a 10kW generator. Some say ...but just RUclips commentors say all sorts of things . I wish there was an Agent Jay that works on Apu...and posts them. And yes we know the generator is rated at 10kW...so the Tiernay puts out at least 10,000÷746=13-14 HP... It is just like another situation...I have a 32 cubic inch 4 cylinder....some engine the US military used for??? And it rated for 6 HP... But it puts out a hell of a lot more power than 6 HP... Thanks
This video reminds me of former GTS Finnjet which had total 55MW of power from the two Pratt & Whitney FT4C-1DLF turbines. The vessel was later converted to gas turbine/diesel-electric hybrid in order to improve fuel efficiency in reduced speed conditions, such as sailing in icy conditions where hull damage from impacts with the ice could be a risk at full speed. After the conversion the vessel had total 66.4MW of power, but I do not know if all engines have been used at full power at the same time. There is a video from the engine room where one turbine is running at full power and the other prop is powered by the diesel-electric system.
Apropos your comments about the engine's power turbine and bearing arrangements, I have explained these in the past. The three-stage aero LP turbine was effectively 'split', with the first stage becoming a single-stage LP turbine, driving the LP compressor. The second and third stages became a two-stage free power turbine. This required the design of a new bearing chamber behind the LP turbine, housing the LP turbine rear bearing and the power turbine front bearing, with the bearing chamber supported by wide-chord NGVs. A new power turbine rear bearing housing was also required. The bearings are all rolling element, and the power turbine is an integral part of the engine change unit.
I did a tour of the WWI battlefields of Flanders and the Somme last week, which included a visit to the Canadian memorial at Vimy Ridge. One of the members of the group was a retired Royal Navy officer, who served on Type 21 frigates (two Marine Olympus + two Marine Tyne) in his young days. He tells the story of the commanding officer water skiing behind his boat at over 28 kt, under Olympus power. He also tells the story of having to cruise across the Atlantic on one Tyne, to conserve fuel.
Sorry to hear about the finger! Reminds me of my youth when I was a hardcore biker and cyclist. I've got an ancient Specialized bike that has more miles than most people's cars. Lots of upgrades from broken/worn parts, but the big cushy seat and going from straight padded cycling gloves to armored street bike gloves were the best QoL additions. The gloves probably look ridiculous, but going through the woods, the armored knuckles save a lot of branch rash when they reach out and snap you. Also nice to have fabric on the finger tips to wipe sweat and dirt off your face. I will say the padding is far better on the armored gloves, too.
We used to get a Vickers Vanguard freighter operated by Hunting Cargo Airlines now and again into Liverpool airport. I remember the RR Tyne's on it used to make a very distinctive whine! Hearing them winding up used to be music to my ears and I miss it very much! Just like the RR Dart!
Back in the day, when I was in jet school, a cargo Viscount would park next to the building and idle before shutting down, The RR Darts in that thing really had a metallic scream to them.
@@AgentJayZ We used to have quite a few Dart powered HS-748's operating out of Liverpool for years until the airline went bust in 2006. I think most of the fleet actually went over to Canada! I wonder if any are still going...
That's a brilliant idea using a J-79 compressor as a brake. I spent years in engine testing and we had to deal with water brakes and cooling towers which were troublesome and required a lot of maintenance.
I think there were several of us who at the same moment had the same idea... It seemed so simple at first, but it took quite a bit of effort and money to get it to work right.
Very pretty 5000 hp blow dryer :-) Be careful out there on the trails and happy travels to the temporarily busiest airport in the world! Hope Juan is there too.
At about 3:00+, love the blue carpet drying fan. They are useful, aren’t they? My dad would have been 101 years old this year. He was a pioneering turbine engineer back in the 40s to the 60s and would have loved your channel.
This got me on to reading about the combine gas on gas system in the Type 21 frigates. 2 Tynes geared up to a pair of Olympus turbines. Would have heard that coming at full speed.
Don't judge the sound of two installed Marine Olympus or two installed Marine Tyne from what you heard on this video. The ship's downtake and uptake (to use the correct terms) arrangements provide a significant amount of sound attenuation. And, as AgentJayZ mentioned, the power in the exhaust efflux, which would have contributed to the jet roar, has been extracted by the power turbine. The original Marine Tyne test bed at R-R IMD was close to the design office and one could have a normal conversation when walking past the building with the engine running at power.
Agent JayZ, I'm going to be in Fort St John this Saturday night & Sunday morning. After watching your channel for many years, I'd love to meet you. Is such a rendezvous possible?
could you make a video, where you film the back of the axial compressor case with your thermal camera? i am interested to see how the compressor air behaves aerodynamically after passing throuth the diffusor
There is no "best direction of rotation": it's simply a matter of custom and practice. R-R gas turbines have typically rotated anti-clockwise (we don't say counter-clockwise this side of the pond), viewed from the rear. After all, it is the same direction of rotation as all the automotive engines I've come across, so why change it? Having said that, DeHavilland gas turbine engines, which became R-R engines, typically rotate clockwise, viewed from the rear. PS I'm relieved that I said "R-R gas turbines have typically rotated anti-clockwise", rather than saying that they all did so. I've now dug out my copy of Bill Gunston's book, 'Rolls-Royce Aero Engines' and found a cutaway illustration of the Dart. It rotates clockwise viewed from the rear. Externally, the helically arranged combustion chambers also give a clue..
@@AgentJayZ And I think we all share that too :-). It's like the age old debate here in the UK on the correct assembly technique for a scone; is it scone, cream, jam, or scone jam, cream? It's a deadly serious matter, but the end result is an exceptionally tasty treat. Anyway, both GE and RR have it covered both ways; they've both built engines where a shaft is spinning in the opposite direction to others (Pegasus I think, newer Trents, and some GE engines). Perhaps Graham has an answer for something that's puzzled me: having built the more modern Trents with counter-rotating shafts, with RR's upcoming Ultrafan they've seemingly returned to having all shafts (including the geared fan) turning the same way. Is there a good design / performance advantage from having done so? Or, if counter-rotating shafts are better but difficult, are they simply being cautious with this otherwise very innovative design? (BTW, to me it looks like Ultrafan is a winner; thin CF fan blades roots, a GTF on a scale never before attempted, more pressure ratio, probably a bigger bypass ratio too; it's an awful lot of big changes in one engine, and judging from RR's innovation web pages, it's working!)
@@abarratt8869 The Pegasus has contra-rotating spools, so that the gyroscopic couples of the two spools cancel each other out, and the Harrier's handling in the hover is not affected. The Trent 1000 and XWB both have HP spools that contra-rotate relative to the IP and LP fan spools. However, there's nothing innately more efficient in having a given spool rotating one way or the other. Nevertheless, my understanding is that this was done primarily for performance reasons and the only area where it is likely to have a small but significant difference is in the IP nozzle guide vane. All RB211 and Trent engines have large, wide-chord IP NGVs, as these carry both oil and air services to/from the HP/IP bearing housing, and they also fair the structural supports for the bearing housing. With co-rotating HP and IP spools in the earlier marks, the IP NGVs have a high camber. In contrast, with contra-rotating spools, the NGVs have a much lower camber, which should result in lower aerodynamic losses in the NGV passages. With contra-rotating turbines, it is actually possible to design (at the design point) for the gas exit angle from the the final stage of an HP turbine rotor to be the required inlet angle for the first stage of the LP turbine, dispensing with an NGV. Sorry, but 'm not in a position to comment on the Ultrafan.
A lot of cruise liners are powered by LM2500s. Some small-medium size patrol boats are powered by the RR Spey. The ship this engine goes into as a cruise engine also has a RR Olympus (35,000 Hp) for higher speeds.
@@AgentJayZ Didn't know that or else I would have stayed on the marine side instead of aviation. Spent a lot of time pulling the Pratt TF30's out and mounting the -110's on for Grumman. I would have rather spent more time on the water lol.
Hope you don't mind the question, but what's the relationship between all of these turbine companies in your area and this particular test cell? I've noticed lots of different engines from different rebuild shops (in your videos) all seem to use this cell and their equipment. S&S, Maddex, JetCity Turbines (which is your company?), Tourbilon. Does one of them own the test cell and rent out "dyno" time and equipment to the surrounding companies?
The shops in the area started off as subcontractor spinoffs from S&S Turbines. Maddex was the first, and they own the test cell. We all work together like a typical family.
at about the 30 min mark when your shutting down the engine for inconsistent rpm readings, one of your oil pump lines keeps jumping around, it wasn't sucking air was it? sure looked like pump cavitation.
Scavenge pumps are designed to handle a heterogenous mixture of air znd oil. Their dischage can often make the return lines to the reservoir jump around. It's mor noticeable here, because in our temporary setup, the lines are not secured.
Looks like that may fit you're little jet boat.. 😉 Amazing power to weight compared the the marine diesels I work on.. Thanks for taking the time to save this stuff forever online.. Question.. Can it run on bunker fuel?
It could be done, but a different fuel system would be needed for the thick stuff. This engine uses a slightly modified version of the aircraft fuel system.
A definite no to the Marine Tyne in its present form being able to run on Bunker 'C' It was never designed to do so. Long before the Royal Navy started using gas turbine propulsion, its steam plant was burning diesel exclusively. The engine would need a completely new fuel system and new fuel nozzles. It would also need a combustion development and engine test programme. In any case, I recall being told that Bunker 'C' typically had a high Vanadium content, which would have been severely detrimental to the turbine aerofoil materials used.
@SamuelWrightA350XWB It powered the Vickers Vanguard, the Transall C-160, the Breguet Atlantic and the Canadair CL-44, which was an enlarged version of the Bristol Britannia. The C-160 has only recently been withdrawn from service, with one of my more recently-retired colleagues having worked on in-service design support for the engine at R-R Bristol.
28:40 Not just nice, but the originals probably hand drawn by a draughtsman - I *loved* technical drawing at school. But I’m an old man now…can still remember 1st & 3rd angle, projections, and *hours* spent fking crosshatching! My life took a different turn, luckily since draughtsman of that sort were obsolescent in the 1990s when I was *ahem* at school, virtually obsolete as I left, superseded and made finally obsolete by CAD and such new-fangled stuff. This generation may have grown up with Web 2.0 and made professions from but we f’ing built it! Don’t forget that! I still remember when social media was just IRC (Internet Relay Chat IIRC and the genesis of all ur SMS abbreviations, owing to minimal bandwidth…about 16kps on a 56k dial-up modem. My dad worked in IT and the home ‘microcomputer’ we add bore a striking resemblance to an ATM, only with a bigger keyboard for all the letters and GUIs were mere twinkles in the eyes of Steve & Bill. Back when something with the power of my modest gaming rig would fill a small room. Nostalgia ain’t what it once was.
@@AgentJayZ Along with your lecture on how jet engines work I also appreciate your lesson in thermodynamics that you put in with the lesson. You really do keep it interesting! Thank you so much for all that you do in here and the community!
If one had a serious breakdown on a ship (I'm assuming this is a generator) how would they fix it? Is it a redundant system where there's multiple generators? One thing that I found out it's interesting is that big opening in the back of an aircraft carrier where everyone hangs out and smoke cigarettes like in top gun is actually a test cell. That's what it's for when they're doing engine maintenance they run them and it blows out the back of the ship. it also adds 3% speed to the ship lol
engines like these are kept in pristine condition. a failliure that requires disassembly is very unlikely. most problems are from surrounding "ship side" components like oil pumps and the likes. the engine itself is almost bare. its nothing like a jet engine where everything is bolted to the engine itself.
@@jonathanperry8331 then you fall back to a lower tier of operation until the next port and pay a LOT of money to get the proper technicans and parts. there is never just 1 source of power. most large ships have at least 3~4 generators for electricity and only need 2 for example. turbine engines like this are often used by cruise ships (the modern ones with PODS) to generate lots of extra power to manuver in ports or accelerate up to cruising speed or rough seas. they burn fuel like its nothing but they supply a huge amount of power when needed and dont weigh a lot when not needed. this is why they are often mounted high in the ship inside one of the stacks. because then run on "cleaner" fuel they are also sometimes used instead of using the cheap high sulfur fuel oil that is only allowed in international waters. but its fair to say that 80% of these engines are used on oil platforms so its not that common on actual ships. the only place you find these engines as driving actual ships is in the millitary/navy where costs is secundary to basically every other metric. a diesel engine that would supply the same amount weigh a great many tons and making a navy ship much slower and other bad things you dont want in a navy ship.
First of all, JP, I call bullshit on your claim of engine tests adding to an aircraft carrier speed by 3%. Have you ever seen an aircraft carrier? It takes a few tugboats to even get it to move at less than one knot, and those things have a bollard pull rating of a quarter million lbs. Bollard pull is just like thrust for a jet engine. An F-35 engine is rated about 43,000 lbs in AB. Also, since drag is proportional to the square of velocity, to say "adds 3% to the speed" is just stupid, and is displaying complete ignorance of how things work.
if you were to find a preserved engine that was a few decades old would you be able to immediately run it or would maintenance have to be conducted before hand?
Some work needs to be done for two purposes: De-preserving it. Configuring it for the test cell. All the time these tasks are being done, you are inspecting everything.
In relevance to piston engines so far as exhaust notes and the relationship to exhaust runners, valves, material resonance, ___, are their any particular parts to jet engines that give each a signature sound? For instance the Tyne sounds only like a Tyne does (without the nomenclature to define it, I call it the 'Marine' sound), or the roar of the J79, or for a more modern example, the absolutely deafening F135; maybe chalk that up to pushing a fighter full bore with a single engine? At any rate, it's something I've always been curious about.
There is no relevance to piston engines on this channel. Yes, each gas turbine engine makes its own particular sound, but the differences are subtle and sometimes hard to recognize.
As this RR Tyne is used just like gas generator, was it necessary to make some changes due to LP turbine overspeed limit, as there is propeller directly connected to that LP shaft? Or load just from LP compressor is enough?
I imagine that the LP turbine for the marine turbine is significantly different from the aircraft engine, due to the fact that you point out: there is no propeller and gearbox being driven.
@@AgentJayZ It appears that you haven't read the comment I made yesterday about the 'splitting' of the aero LP turbine to produce a single-stage LP turbine to drive the LP compressor, with the second and third stages becoming a two-stage free power turbine. I was a young and inexperienced designer and, as a new member of the Marine Tyne design team, they only let me bolt a few accessories onto the engine. However, I did get to look over the shoulders of the old hands and see the schemes for the turbomachinery on their drawing boards.
@@AgentJayZ What irritated me was your suggestion, at about 19:20, that there was another turbine, behind the original three-stage LP turbine. As I've tried to explain, the three-stage aero turbine was 'split', to become a single-stage LP turbine, plus a two-stage free power turbine. As I was there and saw the design evolve on the drawing boards, I make no excuse for my irritation. Perhaps Tourbillon could have provided you with a cross-sectional G A of the Marine Tyne. I will try to send you a booklet on the subject of the Tyne engine in the nwxt couple of weeks.
Usually a more powerful engine is used for compressor stations along pipelines. The LM1500 (12,500 Hp), and the LM2500 (35,000 Hp) engines we work on are used for that.
My recollection of the Tyne installation in the Type 21s and 42s is that, following the intake filters at deck level, there was a 90deg inlet bend with cascade vanes at the bottom of the downtake ducting, immediately in front of the engine intake.
Since the jet has a relatively high idle RPM, does the gear reduction in a ship drive the propeller slow enough for it to run at the ship’s idle speed or is there some type of clutching mechanism to let the propeller run slow or stop while the jet engine is still running? Hope that makes sense.
I am not a shipwright, but I would expect a ship to have some arrangement that would allow to power to the propeller to be interrupted and reversed when needed.
Ian, that is in aircraft. In a ship, the Tyne is but one of several inputs to a very large gearbox that handles the input from several engines, and has an output shaft the turns the propeller. All the ship propellers I know of are solid, and fixed in pitch.
I'm not an expert but on the ships I have seen, the engine (diesel or turbine) is connected directly to a generator that drives electric motors connected to the propellers. In this way you get maximum controllability.
@@AgentJayZ in the case of the type 42 destroyers All ships were propelled by Rolls Royce TM3B Olympus and Rolls Royce RM1C Tyne marinised gas turbines, arranged in a COGOG (combined gas or gas) arrangement, driving through synchronous self-shifting clutches into a double-reduction, dual tandem, articulated, locked-train gear system and out through two five-bladed controllable pitch propellers. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-pitch_propeller_(marine) Served on HMS Cardiff for 3 years spent many an hour running that prop plant.
@@AgentJayZ Okay, I'm sorry, I didn't mean any offense. I just wanted to hear what you were saying, but anyway if you just tell us a summary about what was done, I would be thankful. Thank you sir.
We have the exact same plan for disaster that you have on your drive to work. I find these goulish questions offensive, because turbine engines "explode" less often than any modern car engine does.
@@AgentJayZ I feel your pain… I used to work on heavy truck Diesel engines….. they don’t blow apart… just doesn’t happen…. They just seize…. They just lock up….. not going to lie and say at first at Diesel engine class that a Detroit 8V92 governor adjustment gone wrong creating a runaway isn’t scary… your brain hears that and is telling you to NOPE away! But what you learned is telling you otherwise. (It didn’t help that the engine was just on a square tube steel stand not secured to the cement floor lol)
@OP Trolling? Or just ignorant? What part of *any* of this operation looks like they’re ‘winging it’, huh? Ghoulish is right, but I’m more irritated by the suggestion that you’re somehow delinquent in preparation or safeguards. Why don’t you go back and watch the video showing the test cell controls, including an emergency fuel cut-off? And while you’re at it, ask yourself if you spend the day wandering around with 911 typed in ur phone and ur thumb hovering over the ‘call’ button or do you just ‘wing it’s too? I’m guessing not, especially because it’s tricky to operate a cellphone or other device with your head shoved so far up your ****.😂😂😂
You sure this is for a ship because it looks like it is for a small boat. If you look at ship engines, they are bigger than a house. I actually think you can take this small boat engine and fit it inside of a cylinder of a ship engine.
I was a member of the design team for this engine back in the 1960s. It produces over 5,000SHP. Two of them provided the cruise power for the Royal Navy's Type 21 frigates and Type 42 destroyers. They weren't "small boats" by any means.
You mean a diesel engine for a ship is bigger than a house. Turbine engines are low weight, high output. They're not suited to all ships but many military boats and cruise ships are powered by, or have auxiliary power provided by turbine engines.
@@ryanjess5111 I see and thanks for explaining. I thought putting a turbine in a tank was a bad idea, but to put one in a ship I thought is even worse, but it's the military so they always do things a little bit weird. One time I think someone tried a turbine on a locomotive, it may have even been burning coal dust.
on the little black thing in front of you are some buttons with letters on called keys. Please go to google, and then press the keys until you have, "volumetric power density". And then jog on. thank you
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Thanks for the opportunity to see a Tyne in action. I spent years making parts for industrial Tynes amongst others, without getting the chance to see the engines running or even knowing where the parts fitted in many cases.
I worked for a few years in a high decibel environment where we were required to get tested twice a year to make sure our hearing was not being affected. Being young and knowing hearing loss does not get better I also wore both the foam ear plugs with muffs overtop.
During one of my testing appointments with the audiologists I learned that the foam ear plugs are best at cutting sound but the muffs over them don't add much to lowering it further. It does lower some but would not double the drop. I still wore both as the foam was easy to leave in all shift and use the muffs when passing thru the high sound areas.
Quote "National Institute for Occupational Safety & Health- wearing double protection can provide an increase in protection of 5 to 10 decibels."
Enjoy Osh. Been there many times. Only place you can see a B2 stealth bomber lead a vic formation with a B52 and a B1b. lol
I'm amazed at how much air is moved by that compressor at 5000 hp. Thanks for showing us this very interesting stuff. Have a nice ride!
Agent JayZ, your knowledge is amazing! Love your videos! You gave me a little advice a while back on a international solar gas turbine generator made in the 70’s. We finally got it working. The leaky seal in the front has not leaked after I changed the oil and added a drip line to make sure there wasn’t oil dripping into the intake. We also added an exhaust stack to vent the exhaust farther away from the intake because the exhaust was swirling around back into the intake and causing high temperatures. We also washed the compressor section with the help of the mechanic who services pt-6 engines for crop spraying near us. Last night we had to run it for power during an electrical outage and it finally ran great! Hope we can keep it going another few years. We were looking at a new generator for 200000 bucks so it’s nice that ours is ok for the time being!!
That is good news. I'm glad I could ask the right person about this engine, to get the advice for you.
Good ol IHC.....who says they only made combines....?
It would be nice to know the rated horsepower of my little turbo shaft Tiernay. It drove a 10kW generator. Some say ...but just RUclips commentors say all sorts of things . I wish there was an Agent Jay that works on Apu...and posts them.
And yes we know the generator is rated at 10kW...so the Tiernay puts out at least 10,000÷746=13-14 HP...
It is just like another situation...I have a 32 cubic inch 4 cylinder....some engine the US military used for???
And it rated for 6 HP...
But it puts out a hell of a lot more power than 6 HP...
Thanks
This video reminds me of former GTS Finnjet which had total 55MW of power from the two Pratt & Whitney FT4C-1DLF turbines. The vessel was later converted to gas turbine/diesel-electric hybrid in order to improve fuel efficiency in reduced speed conditions, such as sailing in icy conditions where hull damage from impacts with the ice could be a risk at full speed. After the conversion the vessel had total 66.4MW of power, but I do not know if all engines have been used at full power at the same time. There is a video from the engine room where one turbine is running at full power and the other prop is powered by the diesel-electric system.
It is nice Jay you get to work and play with all kinds of jet engines...
I love the spool up sound
I love hearing gas turbine starting
the RR Tyne shaft engine in the test cell was a impressive build
thankyou for videoing it for us
Apropos your comments about the engine's power turbine and bearing arrangements, I have explained these in the past.
The three-stage aero LP turbine was effectively 'split', with the first stage becoming a single-stage LP turbine, driving the LP compressor. The second and third stages became a two-stage free power turbine.
This required the design of a new bearing chamber behind the LP turbine, housing the LP turbine rear bearing and the power turbine front bearing, with the bearing chamber supported by wide-chord NGVs. A new power turbine rear bearing housing was also required.
The bearings are all rolling element, and the power turbine is an integral part of the engine change unit.
All those standard practice EFRS repair schemes that have a special section for “Tyne Engines only” and now I finally get to see one!
I did a tour of the WWI battlefields of Flanders and the Somme last week, which included a visit to the Canadian memorial at Vimy Ridge.
One of the members of the group was a retired Royal Navy officer, who served on Type 21 frigates (two Marine Olympus + two Marine Tyne) in his young days. He tells the story of the commanding officer water skiing behind his boat at over 28 kt, under Olympus power.
He also tells the story of having to cruise across the Atlantic on one Tyne, to conserve fuel.
That diagram of the combustors really is a beautiful work of art
Sorry to hear about the finger! Reminds me of my youth when I was a hardcore biker and cyclist. I've got an ancient Specialized bike that has more miles than most people's cars. Lots of upgrades from broken/worn parts, but the big cushy seat and going from straight padded cycling gloves to armored street bike gloves were the best QoL additions. The gloves probably look ridiculous, but going through the woods, the armored knuckles save a lot of branch rash when they reach out and snap you. Also nice to have fabric on the finger tips to wipe sweat and dirt off your face. I will say the padding is far better on the armored gloves, too.
We used to get a Vickers Vanguard freighter operated by Hunting Cargo Airlines now and again into Liverpool airport. I remember the RR Tyne's on it used to make a very distinctive whine! Hearing them winding up used to be music to my ears and I miss it very much! Just like the RR Dart!
Back in the day, when I was in jet school, a cargo Viscount would park next to the building and idle before shutting down, The RR Darts in that thing really had a metallic scream to them.
@@AgentJayZ We used to have quite a few Dart powered HS-748's operating out of Liverpool for years until the airline went bust in 2006. I think most of the fleet actually went over to Canada! I wonder if any are still going...
That's a brilliant idea using a J-79 compressor as a brake. I spent years in engine testing and we had to deal with water brakes and cooling towers which were troublesome and required a lot of maintenance.
I think there were several of us who at the same moment had the same idea... It seemed so simple at first, but it took quite a bit of effort and money to get it to work right.
Exxtremely impressed about the air-dyno. Great idea.
.. I’ve learned SO much about turbine technology fro Agent JZ
Same,basically everything i know about this topic comes from him
Loved this video... lots of great commentary and descriptions. Great air dyno! 5,000 HP of turbulent air... that thing produces 3.73 Mega-Watts
I think you put a W in where you meant to put a Hp, but in the end, 3.7-ish MW is right!
Beta is reverse thrust. Thanks for another great vid Jay.
Very pretty 5000 hp blow dryer :-)
Be careful out there on the trails and happy travels to the temporarily busiest airport in the world! Hope Juan is there too.
Reminds me of the Turbo-Encabulator…
If you pause the video looking at the front of the dyno gearbox you can just barely see the upper spurving bearing and tremmie pipes.
A RR Dart would be nice to see. It powered the Vickers Viscout airliner and was the first series-production turboprop engine.
36:20 The Orenda OE600 valve cover is mounted on the wall in its original plastic bag.
I worked in a shipboard engine room in the 60s.
No ear protection at all.
That's the US Navy for you. 😆 🤣
Beautiful test setup
At about 3:00+, love the blue carpet drying fan. They are useful, aren’t they? My dad would have been 101 years old this year. He was a pioneering turbine engineer back in the 40s to the 60s and would have loved your channel.
Thanks again, JZed
Hope to see you at OSH 2022!! Ride safe.
Thanks for sharing.
Glad to hear the border is open. Oshkosh22 for the win this time 'round.
Still covid testing both directions
Stripped and rebuilt many RM1C’s in my time along with many Olympus TM3B’s and Marine speys
That Tyne is way smaller than I thought it would be. That is where turboshaft engines score big though.
Almost 4MW in that tiny package - about the size of a modern coupe. Engine in a modern coupe - about 1/8 the size and 1/25 the power.
This got me on to reading about the combine gas on gas system in the Type 21 frigates. 2 Tynes geared up to a pair of Olympus turbines. Would have heard that coming at full speed.
Don't judge the sound of two installed Marine Olympus or two installed Marine Tyne from what you heard on this video.
The ship's downtake and uptake (to use the correct terms) arrangements provide a significant amount of sound attenuation. And, as AgentJayZ mentioned, the power in the exhaust efflux, which would have contributed to the jet roar, has been extracted by the power turbine.
The original Marine Tyne test bed at R-R IMD was close to the design office and one could have a normal conversation when walking past the building with the engine running at power.
love this ch great stuff
Interesting use of a compressor assembly. Wouldn't have thought about using one that way but cool. :-)
Reminds me of Nick Panaritis of _Nick's Garage,_ sitting in his dyno cell and testing one of his fresh 426 Hemi builds.
THANK YOU! AgentJayZ
To get all that in perfect align had to be a small nightmare, impressive.
Byron is a professional millwright. It's what he does. He designed most of the arrangement, and he puts it together when we need it.
Thx JayZ, hell of a moose call you got there
That setup makes a lot of very angry air! Good Video!
Eh, that air had it coming.
@@GeofreySanders LOL!
Agent JayZ, I'm going to be in Fort St John this Saturday night & Sunday morning. After watching your channel for many years, I'd love to meet you. Is such a rendezvous possible?
Those days I will be nearing Wisconsin, on my way to Oshkosh.
@@AgentJayZ travel safe, and keep the shiny side up!
Hey AgentJayZZZZZZZZ.... any updates on that Iroquois Engine you got years age? Have you finished rebuilding it yet???
could you make a video, where you film the back of the axial compressor case with your thermal camera? i am interested to see how the compressor air behaves aerodynamically after passing throuth the diffusor
How much of a concern was having a fuel leak right away? Also, after the running was complete, do you send oil samples out to be analyzed?
As mentioned, it's a test cell. On the first day, that's when we find any leaks, and fix them.
Hilarious that the GE RR difference of opinion on the best rotation direction means that your air dyno gearbox can be very simple!
There is no "best direction of rotation": it's simply a matter of custom and practice.
R-R gas turbines have typically rotated anti-clockwise (we don't say counter-clockwise this side of the pond), viewed from the rear. After all, it is the same direction of rotation as all the automotive engines I've come across, so why change it?
Having said that, DeHavilland gas turbine engines, which became R-R engines, typically rotate clockwise, viewed from the rear.
PS I'm relieved that I said "R-R gas turbines have typically rotated anti-clockwise", rather than saying that they all did so. I've now dug out my copy of Bill Gunston's book, 'Rolls-Royce Aero Engines' and found a cutaway illustration of the Dart. It rotates clockwise viewed from the rear. Externally, the helically arranged combustion chambers also give a clue..
I have always claimed that RR engines rotate the wrong way, but that is respectful and loving humor.
Graham, you are absolutely right!
@@AgentJayZ And I think we all share that too :-). It's like the age old debate here in the UK on the correct assembly technique for a scone; is it scone, cream, jam, or scone jam, cream? It's a deadly serious matter, but the end result is an exceptionally tasty treat.
Anyway, both GE and RR have it covered both ways; they've both built engines where a shaft is spinning in the opposite direction to others (Pegasus I think, newer Trents, and some GE engines).
Perhaps Graham has an answer for something that's puzzled me: having built the more modern Trents with counter-rotating shafts, with RR's upcoming Ultrafan they've seemingly returned to having all shafts (including the geared fan) turning the same way. Is there a good design / performance advantage from having done so? Or, if counter-rotating shafts are better but difficult, are they simply being cautious with this otherwise very innovative design?
(BTW, to me it looks like Ultrafan is a winner; thin CF fan blades roots, a GTF on a scale never before attempted, more pressure ratio, probably a bigger bypass ratio too; it's an awful lot of big changes in one engine, and judging from RR's innovation web pages, it's working!)
@@AgentJayZ So would you have described Orenda engines as "rotating the wrong way"?
@@abarratt8869 The Pegasus has contra-rotating spools, so that the gyroscopic couples of the two spools cancel each other out, and the Harrier's handling in the hover is not affected.
The Trent 1000 and XWB both have HP spools that contra-rotate relative to the IP and LP fan spools. However, there's nothing innately more efficient in having a given spool rotating one way or the other.
Nevertheless, my understanding is that this was done primarily for performance reasons and the only area where it is likely to have a small but significant difference is in the IP nozzle guide vane.
All RB211 and Trent engines have large, wide-chord IP NGVs, as these carry both oil and air services to/from the HP/IP bearing housing, and they also fair the structural supports for the bearing housing.
With co-rotating HP and IP spools in the earlier marks, the IP NGVs have a high camber. In contrast, with contra-rotating spools, the NGVs have a much lower camber, which should result in lower aerodynamic losses in the NGV passages.
With contra-rotating turbines, it is actually possible to design (at the design point) for the gas exit angle from the the final stage of an HP turbine rotor to be the required inlet angle for the first stage of the LP turbine, dispensing with an NGV.
Sorry, but 'm not in a position to comment on the Ultrafan.
I’m triggered by the lack of molding around the window in the control room. It’s fine, I’ll be fine,…😂
Double layer of half inch Lexan, cemented into the frame. No funding in the budget for decorations, like molding.
Thank you 4 engin
Interesting ❤️
Very interesting I enjoyed it
What kind of ship do marine gas turbine engines usually power? Container ships? Cruise ships?
USN DD-963 Destroyers run 4 GE LM2500' FFG-7 OHP class frigates ran 2 LM2500's. Ask me how I know lol
A lot of cruise liners are powered by LM2500s.
Some small-medium size patrol boats are powered by the RR Spey.
The ship this engine goes into as a cruise engine also has a RR Olympus (35,000 Hp) for higher speeds.
@@AgentJayZ That's the same arrangement as in Argentina's MEKO 360 Destroyers... 🤔🤔
@@AgentJayZ Didn't know that or else I would have stayed on the marine side instead of aviation.
Spent a lot of time pulling the Pratt TF30's out and mounting the -110's on for Grumman. I would have rather spent more time on the water lol.
@@tommullaney8714 the royal navy have used tynes , olympus, speys and wr21`s
Hope you don't mind the question, but what's the relationship between all of these turbine companies in your area and this particular test cell? I've noticed lots of different engines from different rebuild shops (in your videos) all seem to use this cell and their equipment. S&S, Maddex, JetCity Turbines (which is your company?), Tourbilon. Does one of them own the test cell and rent out "dyno" time and equipment to the surrounding companies?
The shops in the area started off as subcontractor spinoffs from S&S Turbines. Maddex was the first, and they own the test cell. We all work together like a typical family.
at about the 30 min mark when your shutting down the engine for inconsistent rpm readings, one of your oil pump lines keeps jumping around, it wasn't sucking air was it? sure looked like pump cavitation.
Scavenge pumps are designed to handle a heterogenous mixture of air znd oil. Their dischage can often make the return lines to the reservoir jump around. It's mor noticeable here, because in our temporary setup, the lines are not secured.
Looks like that may fit you're little jet boat.. 😉 Amazing power to weight compared the the marine diesels I work on.. Thanks for taking the time to save this stuff forever online.. Question.. Can it run on bunker fuel?
It could be done, but a different fuel system would be needed for the thick stuff. This engine uses a slightly modified version of the aircraft fuel system.
A definite no to the Marine Tyne in its present form being able to run on Bunker 'C' It was never designed to do so. Long before the Royal Navy started using gas turbine propulsion, its steam plant was burning diesel exclusively.
The engine would need a completely new fuel system and new fuel nozzles. It would also need a combustion development and engine test programme. In any case, I recall being told that Bunker 'C' typically had a high Vanadium content, which would have been severely detrimental to the turbine aerofoil materials used.
@@grahamj9101 Thats very interesting.. Thank you guys for taking the time to teach some of us..
was used also in aviation on Vickers Vanguard
@SamuelWrightA350XWB It powered the Vickers Vanguard, the Transall C-160, the Breguet Atlantic and the Canadair CL-44, which was an enlarged version of the Bristol Britannia.
The C-160 has only recently been withdrawn from service, with one of my more recently-retired colleagues having worked on in-service design support for the engine at R-R Bristol.
@@grahamj9101 You forgot the Short Belfast C1.
Kinda off topic, but......I'm still sending pizzas. It's still good. Thanks for bringing it up! You're a good guy!
28:40 Not just nice, but the originals probably hand drawn by a draughtsman - I *loved* technical drawing at school. But I’m an old man now…can still remember 1st & 3rd angle, projections, and *hours* spent fking crosshatching! My life took a different turn, luckily since draughtsman of that sort were obsolescent in the 1990s when I was *ahem* at school, virtually obsolete as I left, superseded and made finally obsolete by CAD and such new-fangled stuff. This generation may have grown up with Web 2.0 and made professions from but we f’ing built it! Don’t forget that! I still remember when social media was just IRC (Internet Relay Chat IIRC and the genesis of all ur SMS abbreviations, owing to minimal bandwidth…about 16kps on a 56k dial-up modem. My dad worked in IT and the home ‘microcomputer’ we add bore a striking resemblance to an ATM, only with a bigger keyboard for all the letters and GUIs were mere twinkles in the eyes of Steve & Bill. Back when something with the power of my modest gaming rig would fill a small room.
Nostalgia ain’t what it once was.
Did you consider attaching the AB section on the J-79 to reduce exhaust turbulence or was it not that big a problem?
It is not a problem.
What were the fans trying to cool?
Another great video
I’d assume they are to cool the exhaust manifold/pipe. Don’t want it to burn up. It will get very hot when under full load.
@@lembriggs1075 I would of thought that would be like trying to cool a log burner with a hand held fan 😂 I haven’t seen them before.
The fans are to assist in cooling the torquemeter, which is on the output shaft of the PT, which gets hot.
@@AgentJayZ thanks mate. 👍
@@AgentJayZ
Along with your lecture on how jet engines work I also appreciate your lesson in thermodynamics that you put in with the lesson. You really do keep it interesting! Thank you so much for all that you do in here and the community!
Neat!
If one had a serious breakdown on a ship (I'm assuming this is a generator) how would they fix it? Is it a redundant system where there's multiple generators? One thing that I found out it's interesting is that big opening in the back of an aircraft carrier where everyone hangs out and smoke cigarettes like in top gun is actually a test cell. That's what it's for when they're doing engine maintenance they run them and it blows out the back of the ship. it also adds 3% speed to the ship lol
engines like these are kept in pristine condition. a failliure that requires disassembly is very unlikely. most problems are from surrounding "ship side" components like oil pumps and the likes. the engine itself is almost bare. its nothing like a jet engine where everything is bolted to the engine itself.
@@SupremeRuleroftheWorld I would assume it's unlikely but let's say it did fail what would you do?
@@jonathanperry8331 then you fall back to a lower tier of operation until the next port and pay a LOT of money to get the proper technicans and parts. there is never just 1 source of power. most large ships have at least 3~4 generators for electricity and only need 2 for example. turbine engines like this are often used by cruise ships (the modern ones with PODS) to generate lots of extra power to manuver in ports or accelerate up to cruising speed or rough seas. they burn fuel like its nothing but they supply a huge amount of power when needed and dont weigh a lot when not needed. this is why they are often mounted high in the ship inside one of the stacks. because then run on "cleaner" fuel they are also sometimes used instead of using the cheap high sulfur fuel oil that is only allowed in international waters. but its fair to say that 80% of these engines are used on oil platforms so its not that common on actual ships. the only place you find these engines as driving actual ships is in the millitary/navy where costs is secundary to basically every other metric. a diesel engine that would supply the same amount weigh a great many tons and making a navy ship much slower and other bad things you dont want in a navy ship.
@@SupremeRuleroftheWorld thanks for the info
First of all, JP, I call bullshit on your claim of engine tests adding to an aircraft carrier speed by 3%.
Have you ever seen an aircraft carrier?
It takes a few tugboats to even get it to move at less than one knot, and those things have a bollard pull rating of a quarter million lbs. Bollard pull is just like thrust for a jet engine. An F-35 engine is rated about 43,000 lbs in AB.
Also, since drag is proportional to the square of velocity, to say "adds 3% to the speed" is just stupid, and is displaying complete ignorance of how things work.
What is the red horizontal cable that you rest your elbow on at 20:42? Guessing some kind of strain gauge or a safety rope?
It's a safety barrier, to keep people away from the exit of the Air Dyno.
if you were to find a preserved engine that was a few decades old would you be able to immediately run it or would maintenance have to be conducted before hand?
Some work needs to be done for two purposes:
De-preserving it.
Configuring it for the test cell.
All the time these tasks are being done, you are inspecting everything.
No footage of the crash? sounds like it was a dandy.
I don't wear a camera on rides. I don't ride to be seen, I ride to ride. I have missed some great crashes, but that's the way it goes.
In relevance to piston engines so far as exhaust notes and the relationship to exhaust runners, valves, material resonance, ___, are their any particular parts to jet engines that give each a signature sound? For instance the Tyne sounds only like a Tyne does (without the nomenclature to define it, I call it the 'Marine' sound), or the roar of the J79, or for a more modern example, the absolutely deafening F135; maybe chalk that up to pushing a fighter full bore with a single engine? At any rate, it's something I've always been curious about.
There is no relevance to piston engines on this channel.
Yes, each gas turbine engine makes its own particular sound, but the differences are subtle and sometimes hard to recognize.
I'm not agentjayz but the only part that may make a remotely similar sound is a big turbocharger spooling and moving air
Moroso oil pump guilford connecticut i don't work there but it's cool that a connecticut company making something you use !
As this RR Tyne is used just like gas generator, was it necessary to make some changes due to LP turbine overspeed limit, as there is propeller directly connected to that LP shaft? Or load just from LP compressor is enough?
I imagine that the LP turbine for the marine turbine is significantly different from the aircraft engine, due to the fact that you point out: there is no propeller and gearbox being driven.
@@AgentJayZ It appears that you haven't read the comment I made yesterday about the 'splitting' of the aero LP turbine to produce a single-stage LP turbine to drive the LP compressor, with the second and third stages becoming a two-stage free power turbine.
I was a young and inexperienced designer and, as a new member of the Marine Tyne design team, they only let me bolt a few accessories onto the engine. However, I did get to look over the shoulders of the old hands and see the schemes for the turbomachinery on their drawing boards.
So, am I to assume that you are unfamiliar with the meaning of the phrase I used "significantly different"?
I would not expect that.
@@AgentJayZ Being familiar with what was/is "significantly different", I thought it reasonable to explain the difference.
@@AgentJayZ What irritated me was your suggestion, at about 19:20, that there was another turbine, behind the original three-stage LP turbine. As I've tried to explain, the three-stage aero turbine was 'split', to become a single-stage LP turbine, plus a two-stage free power turbine. As I was there and saw the design evolve on the drawing boards, I make no excuse for my irritation. Perhaps Tourbillon could have provided you with a cross-sectional G A of the Marine Tyne.
I will try to send you a booklet on the subject of the Tyne engine in the nwxt couple of weeks.
can it be used to press natural gas through a very long and large tube? ask for a friend
That is what some in the industry are used for.
Usually a more powerful engine is used for compressor stations along pipelines. The LM1500 (12,500 Hp), and the LM2500 (35,000 Hp) engines we work on are used for that.
is the Tyne different on inlet side since it needs a screen, or is it just how that engine has always been run?
It replicates the installation.
My recollection of the Tyne installation in the Type 21s and 42s is that, following the intake filters at deck level, there was a 90deg inlet bend with cascade vanes at the bottom of the downtake ducting, immediately in front of the engine intake.
Since the jet has a relatively high idle RPM, does the gear reduction in a ship drive the propeller slow enough for it to run at the ship’s idle speed or is there some type of clutching mechanism to let the propeller run slow or stop while the jet engine is still running? Hope that makes sense.
I am not a shipwright, but I would expect a ship to have some arrangement that would allow to power to the propeller to be interrupted and reversed when needed.
@@AgentJayZ they tend to use controlable pitch propellers with the tyne engine via a reduction gearbox so no reverse gear required
Ian, that is in aircraft. In a ship, the Tyne is but one of several inputs to a very large gearbox that handles the input from several engines, and has an output shaft the turns the propeller. All the ship propellers I know of are solid, and fixed in pitch.
I'm not an expert but on the ships I have seen, the engine (diesel or turbine) is connected directly to a generator that drives electric motors connected to the propellers. In this way you get maximum controllability.
@@AgentJayZ in the case of the type 42 destroyers All ships were propelled by Rolls Royce TM3B Olympus and Rolls Royce RM1C Tyne marinised gas turbines, arranged in a COGOG (combined gas or gas) arrangement, driving through synchronous self-shifting clutches into a double-reduction, dual tandem, articulated, locked-train gear system and out through two five-bladed controllable pitch propellers.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-pitch_propeller_(marine)
Served on HMS Cardiff for 3 years spent many an hour running that prop plant.
I couldn't hear what you were saying because of the noise. Could you please try to use a noise cancelling device?
You, sir, obviously have no idea how loud a real, live gas turbine is.
The only noise cancelling device that works is distance from the source.
@@AgentJayZ
Okay, I'm sorry, I didn't mean any offense. I just wanted to hear what you were saying, but anyway if you just tell us a summary about what was done, I would be thankful. Thank you sir.
About how many hours go into re-building a motor like that?
A couple thousand, and hundreds of thousands for parts that need replacing.
How about a "3, 2, 1, CONTACT!!!"
Do you have plans and arrangements made with a local hospital/ambulance in case of disaster or do you “wing it?”
We have the exact same plan for disaster that you have on your drive to work. I find these goulish questions offensive, because turbine engines "explode" less often than any modern car engine does.
@@AgentJayZ I feel your pain… I used to work on heavy truck Diesel engines….. they don’t blow apart… just doesn’t happen…. They just seize…. They just lock up….. not going to lie and say at first at Diesel engine class that a Detroit 8V92 governor adjustment gone wrong creating a runaway isn’t scary… your brain hears that and is telling you to NOPE away! But what you learned is telling you otherwise. (It didn’t help that the engine was just on a square tube steel stand not secured to the cement floor lol)
How ignorant of a question could you possibly ask him? lol.
@OP Trolling? Or just ignorant? What part of *any* of this operation looks like they’re ‘winging it’, huh? Ghoulish is right, but I’m more irritated by the suggestion that you’re somehow delinquent in preparation or safeguards. Why don’t you go back and watch the video showing the test cell controls, including an emergency fuel cut-off? And while you’re at it, ask yourself if you spend the day wandering around with 911 typed in ur phone and ur thumb hovering over the ‘call’ button or do you just ‘wing it’s too? I’m guessing not, especially because it’s tricky to operate a cellphone or other device with your head shoved so far up your ****.😂😂😂
What is that wierd sleeve thing going around the jet engine at 2:55 and then going up to the cieling, or somewhere near the cieling?
Exhaust duct.
As explained in the video 🤦🏼♂️
You sure this is for a ship because it looks like it is for a small boat. If you look at ship engines, they are bigger than a house. I actually think you can take this small boat engine and fit it inside of a cylinder of a ship engine.
I was a member of the design team for this engine back in the 1960s. It produces over 5,000SHP. Two of them provided the cruise power for the Royal Navy's Type 21 frigates and Type 42 destroyers. They weren't "small boats" by any means.
You mean a diesel engine for a ship is bigger than a house. Turbine engines are low weight, high output. They're not suited to all ships but many military boats and cruise ships are powered by, or have auxiliary power provided by turbine engines.
@@ryanjess5111 I see and thanks for explaining. I thought putting a turbine in a tank was a bad idea, but to put one in a ship I thought is even worse, but it's the military so they always do things a little bit weird. One time I think someone tried a turbine on a locomotive, it may have even been burning coal dust.
@@grahamj9101 thanks for explaining. Probably the military needed the space for ammo or radar screens or something.
on the little black thing in front of you are some buttons with letters on called keys. Please go to google, and then press the keys until you have, "volumetric power density". And then jog on. thank you
do you have equity in your employer's company. I think you should consider this.
The company that employs me is owned by me.
Jay has his own shop. I would expect he did this video of their engine for our intrest
@@AgentJayZ employee of the month?
Is that glass bulletproof?
Depends upon what kind of bullet. Yes and no.
Does not matter. No guns here.
@@AgentJayZ Thought that glass may have been reinforced if one of those turbines went bang.
The booth is not in the plane of rotation, because if a turbine disk breaks up, the chunks have greater energy than a 10 inch naval gun.
please let Jay in,,,