This whole video was really just a long way of saying, if you could just cut out the $16 avocado toast you'd be retiring from the workforce in your early 20's. But, since you've decided that $16 avocado toast is non-negotiable, you might as well spend a couple bucks a month on a subscription to Nebula, the creator-owned streaming service where you can find all my videos ad-free, promotion-free, AND EARLY. It's a great way to support what I do, too! Use my link here to get the best deal, and check the description box for more options. go.nebula.tv/citynerd
Hey Ray! Yeah I also don't love the way retirement is framed as the goal of wealth accumulation, so I'm a bigger fan of the FINE (Financial Independence, New Endeavor) movement/framing
I find a lot of the dense urban car-free living ideas to forget that some of us actually have multiple kids. Downtown car-free living is how my wife and I want to “retire” but it’s unrealistic before our kids leave the nest. People usually live in the suburbs and drive big cars for a reason.
“The government doesn’t need to threaten me with incarceration within a 15 minute city, I’ll gladly do it myself” was the most underrated line in this whole video lol. I’m car free since 2013, and have been urban city living since then up until this year. I lost my job and had to move in with family about an hour away in the suburbs. There are no sidewalks. Everything is a 15-20 min drive away. My family is incredibly sedentary. I’m more depressed and unhealthy than I’ve ever been and am praying for the day I can find remote employment get back to the city again.
I had some exams at the doctor and had a stress test and I have passed stage one and two and part of three and the doctor told me that some people much younger than me which are still in their 30s cannot even pass the second stage because they’re too sedentary !! This may show up not too much later in their life with high blood pressure, diabetes, and more body fat and they want.
I live in Queens, a very walkable part of NYC. Not too long ago, I was at a playdate with my daughter, and her friend's dad suggested we go out for lunch. We decided on a Tibetan restaurant very close to us. In fact, the restaurant is exactly a ten-minute walk from their house. This man looked me in the face and suggested we take his car there. When you mention that car owners find excuses to use their car, you weren't kidding.
I've crashed at a friend's place out of town, and because it was drizzling a little bit, they suggested driving across the street to the convenience store rather than just wearing a hood or getting an umbrella.
There's a popular mall nearby, obviously surrounded by a parking lot, and across the street is a big strip mall that's also popular and lined on the side with a parking lot. My wife was hanging out with friends at the mall and they wanted to go across the street to the strip mall, and they all looked at my wife like she was insane for saying they should just walk. It probably took them longer to go to the car and find parking at the new place than to have just walked a couple hundred feet.
My view of this is a bit different. I watched my parents reach an age where they could no longer drive. They lived in a car-dependent suburb, and the loss of mobility was devastating, especially for my father. I've been telling my wife our next move needs to be with this in mind. We need to be in a place where we can reach grocery stores, restaurants, a YMCA, pharmacies, doctors, and other services without having a car.
Vastly underrated comment. It’s so easy to think about what works for life right now, without thinking about the implications a few decades down the road.
An aspect of FIRE rarely talked about is maintaining health to then enjoy that financial freedom. Biking and walking instead of relying on a car are incredibly beneficial for long term health, whereas studies increasingly find that sedentary behavior (e.g. driving) is one of the worst things you can do to your body
And also the mentality/ability to figure things out, and deal with setbacks. Through-hiking and riding my bike everywhere taught me a lot about life that I find hard to explain to those who have never done it.
@@deadhead3100 If you drive to get around for everything, your chance of becoming an unhealthy or just less healthy person is far higher than your chance of getting hit when walking or biking. And the health benefits from doing those things also outweigh the risks from breathing in car exhaust.
@@forestfeller My sister used to live there! Great place. She eventually left when she wanted to start a family, though -- you just can't do that when you have to live with three roommates to afford rent.
I once again am bringing up the urbanist visionary Ben Folds and his foundational text, "Rockin' The Suburbs" as heard in the award winning film, Over the Hedge: "We drive our cars every day to and from work both ways so we make just enough to pay to drive our cars to work each day; hey, hey"
Reading Mr. Money Mustache changed my life. I always think if I hadn’t been alive in the age of financial bloggers, I’d have not been able to retire … er, stop working. My life is simple in NYC, with no car, no housing maintenance, etc. Lately though I’ve been exposed to people leading very nice lives with so much more material possessions, and feeling a bit like a weirdo. I needed this video today, so thank you.
Yeah I think one underdiscussed aspect of FIRE is social - you sometimes end up with friends who want to go to super nice restaurants all the time, etc., and then it creates social tension when you're figuring out where to go. I like a nice restaurant occasionally, but like 5-10 times a month is NOT in my budget like it is for some people who make a lot of money and then, just...spend all of it
@@CityNerd I was contemplating a hybrid job in San Francisco, and the possibility of being expected to go out for lunch with them every week or more, and doing calculations like "$30/week * 50 weeks = $1500/year of post-tax income". And with SF these days, $30 might be one lunch, not three...
@@leeche87 Simple pursuits and everything CityNerd talks about in this video. The prices hurt but just because something's expensive doesn't mean you have to buy it. ... oh and find affordable rent by moving to a "less desirable" neighborhood, ahead of the curve, before everyone else follows, ha ha.
@@kriserts which district of NYC is affordable ? I was there and none of them was affordable ,unless it's outside NYC. Even milk in supermarket was expensive there..do you actually have to live there for your job ?
We just did a similar evaluation and sold our house in the suburbs and moved to a high rise apartment. I have so much more free time not having to maintain a yard or drive everywhere.
When I sold my first house and went back to renting an apartment, that was the thing that hit me my first or second weekend. I immediately started thinking of what yard work I had to do that weekend, and how much time I had free to do other things, and "Wait! No yard! No yard work at all! It's all free time this weekend! All of it!"
Okay, I'd love to learn more about the choice of selling your house and renting instead. Long term, do you think that renting will at least break even with the cost of owning a house without a mortgage? We are considering doing the same thing at 40 and 38, but are afraid that the housing expense will be larger in the long run? We live the the Midwest for reference.
The wife and I discovered FIRE about 11 years ago and set in place a plan to retire at 50. Well, we hit our number 3 years early and we both quit our jobs. The plan is to move around the world while we are still in good health (Costa Rica now, Thailand next). FIRE really changed our lives for the better. A big part of our FIRE plan was downsizing our suburban house for a semi-urban condo and not upgrading our cars every 2-3 years. We still drove a lot but with two paid of cars it was very cheap. Great video, CityNerd!
@@KhanJoltrane I think it’s not just the number of net worth they earned, but also they’re living in less expensive countries and have a less expensive life
@@KhanJoltrane Our yearly budget for the next year is around 50k. We plan to be around that number for the next few years until we can access our 401k funds without penalty.
Not that this is what your video is about, but to point out that one of the biggest critiques of the F.I.R.E. movement is that it is inherently a rich persons game. The idea that you can cut your spending to almost nothing and save aggressively to retire early assumes you have a job that pays enough for that to be an option rather than just what you have to do to survive. Or that you don’t have dependents. Or chronic illness. Lot of good things in “don’t over consume” (and as you point out so much of American life is over consumption as a default), but for most people most of the time FIRE isn’t an actual star they can employ
I went car free for two years and, while I saved money and paid down my student loans, I lost a ton in personal time. Instead of spending 30-40min a day commuting, it was 90min EACH WAY. Getting groceries was an extra chore. Before anyone argues that I could have moved closer to work, that would have defeated the whole purpose as an apartment downtown is more than twice what I'd spend on a car to commit
Yeah, that was my experience too when I was carless. I spent WAY more time commuting and I was just exhausted all the time. I try to walk or bike every day when feasible, but having a car is absolutely worth it for me for time saved
Or what if a household has 2 working adults with jobs in the opposite directions 1 hour each way?? Then how many cities have a decent transport system?? Not so many!!
For me doing outdoorsy stuff is very necessary to my happiness, and that’s super hard without a car. For how often I take trips that are impossible without a car (eg going hiking in the mountains), and due to my current job being inaccessible by transit, my household needs 1 car. But we are always making choices to avoid a second car because the marginal expense would be so high.
I'm in that boat too. And though I do most of what I can to keep that vehicle cost down (paid $5000 cash for older used car, drive very little), I acknowledge that I am less wealthy as a result, even if I'm in a different stratosphere than most car owners. Most people have a vice in their personal finances somewhere, the key is just to not have too many or have them be too extreme.
Me too! I'm in the mountains or desert every weekend, and love road tripping to national parks. I couldn't do this stuff without a car. In saying that, I bought a 7k car with cash and live in a small apartment in a walkable area, so that all helps cost-wise. I have done many years without cars when I've lived places in the central city with no parking, and it was indeed freeing, but I also do live to get out of the city and go hiking and camping, and would miss that greatly. Car-lite definitely works best for me - I don't need a fancy car and only use it when I need it. I still walk and take the bus or trolley a lot.
Furthermore I can sleep in my car before/after my outdoor trips which would cost me one or two nights in paid accomodation even if the outdoor location was accessible by public transport...otoh as long as said car is cheaper than the bicycle in the trunk you're doing it right ;) Wait! Who am I to defend car ownership? Usually I am the one confusing other people (like my neighbours) because I am home but my car isn't - or - even more confusing my car is home but I am NOT!
@@sunglassesemojis same! Tough to get to the coast from my city without a car. I bike or walk to everything in town, but drive to the surf. Also, to kids’ soccer games in far-flung locales, but at least we carpool.
This is possible with public transit in my country! I will admit some things are less accessible, but you *can* totally do it here. Also, I do lots of cycling which is outdoorsy but I can leave from my door. This is not to be annoying about my superior public transit connections but rather to inspire that it is possible to enjoy these things even car-free IF better comprehensive public transit is implemented, and you cannot push for what you can't imagine.
This video is the reason why im choosing to move to a high density city where cars aren’t needed. im 22, have a job in software lined up, and want to FIRE by the time im 40. My parents cannot comprehend that I don’t plan on buying a car, but I will be saving thousands that will directly be going into Roth/401k. Great video as always :)
absolutely insane that the prospect of not dropping a 25k+ expense on a motor vehicle and prioritizing your future wellbeing instead, is seen as odd. it's simply beyond me
It's amazing going car free. Did the same for my first 7 years in Seattle and only got a car in 2021 because I was tired of renting during the pandemic but wanted to do more outdoorsy stuff It was one of the few times in history where a new car (at 0% APR because no one was buying st the time) actually was worth more a few months after buying it (chip shortage). Ironically I could only "afford" it at that point because we were living the DINK life with good careers and we could actually afford 1.2k/month in insurance+loan+parking. That said I still drive it so infrequently I killed the battery and had to buy a battery tender An ebike is where the sweet spot is. You can do your weekly grocery run and it keeps up with vehicle traffic on city streets + let's you actually go up hills in sf or Seattle
At that age, city life has a lot of advantages. Years from now you might want something different. The other option is WFH in cheaper (probably rural) housing. Vanlife is another option. All 3 can be done with similar total budgets.
A miracle has happened. My son the car addict had his car totaled and he has received a settlement. He now does not see any reason to buy a new car! Excellent!
But will he buy a used car or use another mode of transportation to get to places? As a car enthusiast, I like using public transportation. It’s available in my area, the problem is is there isn’t a bus air train that can get me too and from the office. A car is the only option to drive the 5 miles to work and 5 miles back home. I considered a bike, but there aren’t bike lanes halfway down the road and drivers here are terrible. I really love my cars, but I want a fun convertible like a Mazda Miata to drive up to the mountains and enjoy the roads. But I also have little kids, so I have to drive a practical 4 door car and my wife thinks that an SUV is the only option to haul the family around. First world problems. 🤣
@@brian0410 Absolutely see your point. My son is 26 and was living in Los Angeles where he relied on his car. Now that he’s back in San Francisco he has many options; including walking. I agree public transportation isn’t feasible many places I am also most curious to see how Asheville NC recovers from flooding. Do they build amazing public transportation and not rebuild freeways? We didn’t after the 1989 earthquake
@@dianethulin1700 I can relate to relying on a car. I lived outside of Austin, Texas for 4 years and you absolutely had to rely on a car. I moved back to my home city which is just outside of Salt Lake City but all kind of connected. We have public transportation that is pretty good I think. It’s UTA. It has busses, Trax, and Frontrunner. The front runner is basically a train, the Trax is kind of subway/trolley. I used to work downtown SLC years ago and drive to the TRAX/Frontrunner stations and take them downtown to work. I loved it. I could just sit and enjoy music or read a book, do homework or whatever. Instead of sitting in traffic in my car. I saved tons of money on gas. After a while I got used to getting dropped off at work with my dad who worked in the same area and I would take the train home and then walk the mile and a half to get home. Back then I was 26. Now I’m 35 and wish I could still do that. There is a bus I can hop on to get to work now, but my company only provides discounted passes with UTA to use the Frontrunner/TRAX and not the busses. By the time I could drive to or walk to a station, I might as well drive. And I hate sitting in the rush hour traffic. As for the damage done with the hurricane. I do think they should look at public transit instead of fixing the highways. I mean they can fix the highways. But they need to have public transit so that people who don’t own a car or may choose to hop on a train can get out of dodge before the storm hits. They had issues with traffic jams because everyone and their dog was in a car stuck on the roads. The whole USA needs to work on public transportation infrastructure. I know it’s not needed in rural areas. But they should make it at least go around the city and maybe to the major airports like we do in Salt Lake City. Our Frontrunner goes from Ogden, through SLC, down to Provo. It’s about a 40 mile stretch for that one line and it’s great. We can’t use the excuse that the country is too big, we have all the space to make it happen. I would love a train that goes from SLC to Vegas and then onto LA or San Francisco often enough to make it an option for those who may not want to fly.
@@brian0410I have the exact same problem man. I live about 20 miles from work and Ive tried biking that, but its just too hard and dangerous in places. Bus routes are about $55 a month and are limited.
@@jshowao You could check into getting an e-bike, scooter, or small displacement motorcycle. At 24 my 2-year old Honda was stolen in Chicago. Between struggling to find parking, tickets, permits, higher insurance, etc, I didn’t replace it and took public transportation. For trips outside the city or away from train lines, I wound up buying a used 400cc Honda motorcycle; I wound up not having a car for 15 years, after moving to an apartment with off-street parking.
Everyone needs more than their salary to be financial stable. The best thing to do with your money is to invest it rightly, because money left for saving always end up used with no returns.
I’m looking for something to venture into on a short term basis, I really need to create an alternate source of income, what do you thing I should be buying?
We bought into the "save money living in the city for 15 years but slipped just a little further and just a little further into debt every year. Gave up, took a small paycut to work from home and moved to a small community with cheap housing (no more mortgage) and sold our tiny Toronto home. We had enough money left over to make healthy contribution to retirement savings, kids college and bought used car in cash. We have enough space for our family now. We rarely eat out. We've lost weight, dropped stress, and actually participate in local community. In theory city living is supposed to be healthier but we were exhausted and kept waiting for it to get easier. It didn't work for our family.
This succintly describes many of the reasons I've chosen to be car-free that none of my peers or family members tend to understand. The American Dream of the suburban house with the white picket fence to isolate you from everyone else is so entrenched in the American psyche that challenging its value is too world-changing to consider for many people who have already sacrificed their lives to it, and I think that's an incredible shame. Just like the diamond industry convinced our whole society that spending far too much money on a diamond ring was an intrinsic part of getting married, and now people can't imagine a modern time in which that wasn't the case, Americans have been taken captive by the automobile and single family housing.
I have a house AND I'm car-free. It doesn't have to always be one or the other. And it's nice to be able to practice music without bothering my neighbors.
@CityNerd you're right, yardwork sucks, but gardening doesn't so much, and helps out with one of the issues a lot of folks in lower income areas in cities have: fresh fruits and veggies. I think a lot of people also get a sense of connection to the land through gardening, and it makes trekking out to "nature" (I believe you talked about some of those difficulties in a recent video) less necessary. That might be a good top ten list sometime, best cities for urban gardeners. And no, not lawns. Green lawns are an abomination everywhere that doesn't have the humidity of Ohio.
A suburban backyard garden can produce plenty of herbs, a lot of squash, and the occasional seasonal fruit, but for feeding a family it's terribly inefficient compared to just having a decent grocer nearby. Backyard gardening is wonderful for many reasons but I think we need to stop dreaming that it's a scalable answer to food insecurity.
Yeah - yard work isn't for every one I guess, but I find it really satisfying/calming to mow the lawn, rake the leaves, weed the garden, etc. for a few hours. It's a form of connection with nature, albeit at a pretty basic level. 🙂
farming should be done at scale. the food desert "problem" is because the local shoppers do not want to pay half price for fresh food trucked to the store from a nearby distribution center. Its not going to be reliably fixed by backyard farms or small community farms that cost twice as much in resources and labor. also, food deserts are not a problem because we have shelf stable solutions that provide all the nutrition you need. An unrefrigerated vending machine could literally solve an entire community's malnutrition, if only community members cared enough about their own health.
Amen! I quit a very stable and well-paying job, sold my house, sold my car and spent a year living out of a backpack in my late 40s. Then I actually upsized my life by buying a motorhome and an electric bike. It's been liberating in ways that I'm hard-pressed to fully explain to anyone who's never tried it. Sure, I constantly get people who tell me I'm living their dream life. The thing is, they could have that dream life if they just made a few slightly different choices. I still work a full time job but I currently make less than half what I was before and have more disposable income. More importantly, I have more adventure, more excitement, more time freedom… basically more of all the things that matter to me.
100% that is the trap. Most people don't want to figure out the details and prefer to stay in the rut... some have realities, older parents they have to support, etc. However, most people never want to go through the exercise of wants vs needs.
I live out bush in Western Australia and I appreciate the caveat that this specific lifestyle isn't feasible for all. We actually live in a very walkable bush town with everything we need on our doorstep. Living a (nearly) waste free life and making our home more sustainable is enough happiness for us, despite the absolutely awful few years of uncertainty we've experienced. Love your channel! 💚
In the US, the old school (train station based) small towns are almost more dense/urban than the bigger cities. Of course, they are also sadly being developed more suburban/car centric and the city centers are dying. Same issue, different scale.
I walk or take public transportion most everywhere I go. I moved back to San Francisco during Covid. It is cheaper for me to live in this expensive city rather than commute with cheaper rent elsewhere. A vehicle is the difference maker
I've been planning on moving to SF, following my partner who moved up there recently. Been thinking about getting a motorcycle 🏍️ rather than owning a traditional car & of course getting a bike. 🚲 How do you like the City living? How do you keep costs down?
I figured out hedonic adaptation when I managed to purchase my first house in my 20's. I then started to fantasize not simply about owning a home, but owning a larger, nicer one in a nicer neighbourhood. And then it hit me that there was no end to this cycle: there would always be a larger, nicer home in a nicer area just out of reach. So obviously that wasn't any sort of path to happiness and I should stop pursuing it. Have owned two cars, both bought used with cash. Did the numbers and saw how car loans and new car depreciation were for suckers. Also lived car-free for a decade (what persuaded me to get another one was my interest in hiking and the outdoors). Have mostly lived in what are regarded as expensive cities yet not focusing on acquiring material things has given me the freedom to work a lot less than most do. Having a life that revolves around owning cars and driving them everyplace has never appealed to me.
Sometimes it's hard to buy a good used car though. Ive owned plenty of used cars and they often are equally money pits with the amount of problems they tend to have. With a new car, if you treat it well enough, it can stay nice for over a decade.
@@enjoystraveling that’s true, but only for a few relatively popular trailheads. If you want to get away from the crowds, you really can’t beat a car. Cars have their place, just usually not in the city.
@@enjoystraveling Or Vancouver, or Portland, or a number of places. But as another person observed, it is only a few trails. By far the main use of my vehicle is to get out of the city. In the city, I use biking and transit.
@@jshowao I have had good luck buying late-model used cars (i.e. used cars that are about a year old). Only had to do it twice because once I buy it, I hold on to it. When my current vehicle becomes undriveable, I may well opt to not replace it and to rent cars when I want to get out of the city.
For the most part, I agree with a lot of this. But a lot of things to ask about here: - Yes, buying a new car is not "cost efficient", but, and I say this as I only recently bought my first new cars. My last 2 used cars, 1 cost me $8,000 in 6 weeks to keep running (with still a ton of things on the list), and the other had a catastrophic failure. And that almost cost my wife her job. - If a person has the money for it, is it wrong to buy something you WANT, regardless of how much you drive. I don't drive much, but got what I wanted, and get to enjoy it. Even while taking the kids around to their varying appointments. There is something to be said for people to find their own happiness - Having kids really kills this. - There's really an assumption, at least for retire early, that you'll be healthy all the time, and while I bike a lot and exercise a lot, but as I approach 50, the more health problems I have started to experience, and the harder it has been to keep my exercising pace - I've been working at great jobs for the last 20 years, but they have been in downtown Chicago and NYC, and the cost to live in central NYC or Chicago well outweighs the costs of living in the suburbs or fringes. In nyc I lived in the Bronx, the rent was less than half of what I could find below 96th street, but commuting was long, though affordable. But I also had to pay the NYC income tax of 3%. In Chicagoland, there's no city tax, but buying a home in the city vs one in the suburbs is a no brainer. But owning, regardless of it being an apartment in a large well kept building, or a home in the suburbs, there is a cost to keep it cared for, so the location only matters if transportation or other features add to the expenses, and in my case, with the kids, it is more expensive to live in the city proper than to live in the suburbs. Every person's needs, and experiences will differ, and depending upon the city, those costs will change (you recently talked about Greensboro and Winston Salem North Carolina, and both are affordable whether you live in the city proper or out in the suburbs. But I'm not there because an equivalent job in those cities pays almost 1/3rd what I make currently, but the costs don't go down by the same amount.
Whoa thanks for these generous thoughts CityNerd! Of course I'm in total agreement with the financial aspects of car-lite living and also like to emphasize the physical and mental health benefits which are overlooked: biking and walking are good for you in every way, whereas car driving is like pounding shots of whiskey for your health - I find that I need to do roughly an hour of exercise and stretching just to recover from every hour of car driving and get back to the neutral point! Yes I still own a car because I love big road trips (and they happen often because I'm retired!) - but the bike is still the only form of transportation for local trips within my own small city.
Personal finance is how I discovered many of these urbanist ideas. I was a pizza delivery driver using my own car and started tracking how much gas/miles I was driving because I was pretty much filling my tank every shift. From there I started mapping out what my cheapest per mile transit I could move pizzas around. I looked at Priuses and Mopeds but pretty much realized nothing beats biking/e-biking. You'll likely see places like dominos have company E-bikes for. The drivers now too.
I've been car-free my entire life, as I simply detest driving; I do not even have a license. I've lived only in very large cities, and cannot imagine living otherwise. That said, what I think Mr Nerd discounts somewhat about home ownership is its intersection with the desire to design and personalize your living and entertaining quarters far beyond what is possible in a rental property through structural alterations. Similarly, with respect to having yard (or just outdoor space of any variety), the value of gardening and yardwork as a genuinely relaxing and meditative pursuit in its own right should get a little more credit. But this is a matter of personal preference, and I realize many people see yard maintenance as a burden. Renting in a metropolis and owning something more rural allows for both options to be pursued
Agreed. Planting veggies in four good-sized raised beds -and weeding them regularly, is very relaxing. Plus, the taste of the tomatoes, carrots, sweet onions, etc. is an added healthy bonus.
Yeah, I know, there’s sickos out there that enjoy yard work. There’s probably also sickos out there that enjoy cleaning toilets. I don’t enjoy either. But whatever floats your boat.
Another option, at least in my city, it's very easy to get a garden plot in a community garden. Then you can already have the space cultivated, fenced, etc. I do like the live urban have a cheap rural property for the getaways concept though too, if you can make it work.
I appreciate you making this video. Mr. Money Mustache was the one who got me to buy a bike and it changed my whole perspective on life. That was 8 years ago. I significantly reduced using my car and then sold it 2 years ago. I can't even begin to say freeing not owning a car is. No more payments, no more insurance. When I need a car I rent or ask someone for a ride. I actually hit my fire number sooner than I expected, but now I'm planning on moving out of a cheap red state because of the crazy hateful politics so my expenses are about to dramatically increase. But it is worth it. Also I agree with the not retiring part of this movement. I just want the freedom. Freedom to work on what ever I want. I get to be grad student working on exciting open source projects which I wouldn't if I was in the "proper" work force.
This is my exact story as well. Right before switching to a bicycle, I owned a sportscar and THREE motorcycles. Now my spouse and I have one car and I bike to work everyday.
We share a similar philosophy on driving and home ownership as luxury expenses. But I tend to value the benefits of quietude and nature, and that means I see the conveniences of living in a large city as another form of luxury to balance against the constant noise and concrete. Maybe once cars become rarities it will be different, but probably not in my lifetime.
It was about 15 years ago in my 20s that my car broke down and I just wasn't making the money necessary to pay to fix it. Up to this point I had done everything in my power to keep my car running because it was you know... all I had in my sprawly south Florida region to get around. You NEED a car right? Right? Thankfully I was already doing freelance stuff online quite a bit, so I leaned into that more (still didn't make a lot of money, but it meant I didn't have to commute 30 mins to work). And I checked out the map and found... actually... everything I needed was actually technically in walking distance. Don't get me wrong, some people would scoff at the distances... heck at the time I did! But I had to walk and when you need groceries and the sort, walking was the only option (the delivery services of today didn't exist, some grocery stores offered it, but it was so niche at the time I wouldn't have known to attempt it). And honestly... I liked it! Sure weather impacted it, but you know, I just had to schedule my shopping around the weather. I even got myself one of those "granny baskets" on wheels to carry the groceries home when I did a big purchase. But really I got into a habit of buying what I needed and just shopping more frequently. My vegetable intake went up actually because I was buying and eating them within 2 days anyways with the frequency of my shopping. I did end up getting a car again when I reentered an office job. But I bought a little Toyota Yaris for 11K at the time brand new (I swear... they really need to bring the Yaris back). I got married and my wife found it weird how little I drove. I drove to work, that was it. Then we moved across the country (we had enough of Florida). So we're now in the northeast and I gave my Yaris to my brother back in Florida, and we got my wife a Subaru. We're now a 1 car house. My wife needs it to get to the office downtown. But I'm at home out here in the woods and I get by walking. There's a little 7-eleven with a grinder shop next door a little less than a mile from my house. There's a small new england town center a little further than that. And a grocery store a brisk bike ride from there (3-4 miles?). Honestly... it's not the distance, it's the HILL I live on that makes the bike ride to the grocery rough. But still... it's NOT bad. My wife was VERY skeptical of it. She did not believe me when I told her I would make it work when we had just 1 car. She assumed within weeks I'd be chomping at the bit to buy a 2nd car. But here we are 5 years later still a 1 car house in the woods and honestly I prefer it. This is how I get my exorcise! My brother actually moved up here to too (he's now my neighbor) and I'll be walking to the store and he'll drive by me going to the same store. Then in the store he'll go on about how he needs to hit the gym because of his gut. "I told you I was going to the store, you could have walked with me?" He'll just laugh, buy his monster energy drink, and get back in his car and drive home. Thing is... if you told 20 year old me that 40 year old me wouldn't have his own car and would walk/bicycle everywhere. I'd laugh in your face. Me? I literally grew up in a truck driver family that hauled cars! Cars were my life! Don't get me wrong a lot changed before I hit 21 (a lot of my family died and the truck driving went with it). But like I had that mentality that cars were a given. But then I got in a financial situation that forced my hand and I quickly learned... I don't need a car. I mean sure, I need a vehicle on occasion. I need to do a run to the lumber store or go to a show like I did last night. But I can rent a truck or a taxi/uber in those rare occasions and pay FAR LESS than maintaining a car/insurance/fuel. It's SO expensive. It's hundreds of dollars a month. But like... I used to smoke too. 3 packs a day! And you could tell me how much I blew on butts and I wouldn't bat an eye. It's not "that" much... so what... then I quit (for other reasons... 15 year old me said if I ever made it to 25 I'd quit... so when I woke up 28 one day I was like 'welp, I made it' and quit). After I quit... yeah, that money became obvious! Cars are different than smoking since their utility is a thing where as butts have no real utility outside of giving you cancer. But the financial point still stands. While you smoke, and while you drive everywhere, you can't imagine a world where you didn't smoke/drive. So telling me I'd save 500+ dollars a month (if not more) cutting just one of them out would have made me laugh. So I get it that it makes others laugh. But it's true guys. Even in an unwalkable suburban south Florida, or rural New England... you can actually walk! Anyways, I'm off to grab a grinder and a mtn dizzle.
what a lovely story, very much enjoyed reading that. and yea i grew up in LA walking everywhere and taking the bus, and then when i became an adult it was like i "had to" have a car. it's wild how it rewires your perspective on distances and time and travel and all that.
Appreciate your thoughts sir. Thank you. (Aside: My wife and I took a recent train adventure during discount-weekend-pricing and it was such a welcome difference from riding in our regular wheeled-metal-coffin that we can't wait for the next "cheap" adventure. Keep inspiring us to do better CityNerd.)
I went inside the cheesecake factory for the first time in my life in Florida and I saw how huge the cheesecake slices were as far as I knew there’s no chance for a smaller slice and I don’t need that many calories so I admired the inside and then I walked out. 🍰❌
I live car-free in Baltimore; it's great. There's plenty to do here as well as on the Northeast Corridor. The yard is small enough that I enjoy working on it; any larger and it would bother me. Had never planned on owning but the rent vs. own economics worked out when I moved here. It's nice that the job can go away and I don't immediately have to worry about replacing the income since the expenses are way down with not being tethered to a car payment.
My wife and I paired back from two cars to one about 1.5 years ago. She works about 8 miles away two days a week without viable public transportation, so we still need the one car. I mainly bike to work at this point but drive a couple days per week if I have multiple meetings around town that I can't get to by bike or the weather's terrible. No car payment at least and it's a 9-year-old car so depreciation is modest at this point. Still dreaming of that car-free living; someday!
This one hit really close to home. My wife and I discovered the FIRE movement last year and it has completely changed our perspective on life. Since then we got rid of two expensive cars, bought an used and older, but reliable car and moved from the suburbs into the city. Even though rent costs more here the decrease in cost of transportation has more than made up for it. We are both closer to work and are able to live a much healthier and happier life with the abundance of time we have now. I cannot emphasize enough how understanding personal finance can change your life. Really happy to see you talking about this.
In my experience, cities are too expensive even with a car free lifestyle. Medium density or even rural areas can be more affordable, but only if you can minimize the commute (carpool?) and other transportation expenses.
Disagree. I have family members with below median local incomes doing this right now in Denver, SF, and Philly. Most have one older car, one has no car. It's not high living, but it is definitely possible.
Really depends on what kind of income you get from a job that is in a city vs the jobs you can get outside of the city, how close you live to your job, and what everything actually costs. Every time I've moved I compared housing + commuting from outside of the city vs from inside the city, to my office located within said city, and the costs usually were about the same or cheaper to stay in the city. Plus the added benefit of not having to drive! This was in San Francisco, notorious for being HCOLA.
Definitely a big draw of the "undervalued cities" segments is planning out where I could move for a coasting early retirement. I really would like to be able to take the time to work on creative projects with the expectation that it's okay if I fail, because my costs are low enough to quickly recover/take a part time job for a bit if needed.
I've never owned a car, much less worried about the depreciation and the insurance and all that extra stuff. All that stuff is foreign; living in New York City, the only transportation costs I think are about whether I should be getting the weekly MetroCard unlimited right away or just doing OMNY pay-per-ride until it becomes an unlimited, and the occasional gas when going on a road trip with friends. It all seems like a bunch of extra expenses, with not much difference in use of time, and any advantage of driving being very marginal.
Im 18 and would like to now own a car as well as I have in the past and I dislike it and I enjoy biking and public transport instead. I noticed you say you live in NYC, although I’d love to live in nyc I’m afraid at my age and how much I make I wouldn’t be able to do that, any other city’s you’d recommend for not owning a car?
I live in a town that was designed as a suburb but it has everything I need, including medical facilities, concert halls, university, even a casino (don't need that). Pretty easy to walk or bike. Some bus service, and train to the surrounding area. Hospital is next town over, so I think this could be pretty close to "city living" except I own a house and garage and carS. There are plenty of condos and apartments I could be in as well. What we'd miss is all the time and money we spend on the garden.
Recently sold 1 of our 2 cars, and have been living a mostly walkable life in a small town. I do often long to live in a more urban place, but realistically, I can walk or bike to most of my daily needs, including work. It is a very freeing experience. I wake up every day grateful for my lifestyle. I wish more people could live like this.
the buses in my city are free, so ive been trying to take them more whenever i can! even if it adds 20 minutes or so to my commute, its a fair trade off to the anxiety that i get while driving and the little bit of gas im saving lol
There's a lot to be said for that anxiety and stress. I bike commute 100% but sometimes end up driving to family activities on the weekends. After a while, I ask my wife to take over. She handles the stress better.
I never owned a car at all during the 20 years I lived in Seattle and Ann Arbor, MI. It wasn't always easy, but it was definitely much cheaper than driving. I live in Albuquerque now (same as you) but, unlike you, I just couldn't swing the car-free living anymore. I perhaps made a bit of a financial mistake in buying here as, even though I locked in a much-less-than-Seattle-rent-prices mortgage, I now have car expenses... but I'm still living well within my means and both purchases have yielded dividends in mental health. I don't have a wife or kids, so... caring for and maintaining a house and car kind of fill a void, in a weird way. Besides which, without a car I felt *very* isolated here and it was taking a huge toll. And taking trips I wouldn't otherwise take is sort of a goal when you're new somewhere! I wrote this for two reasons: 1) despite everything I just said, I appreciate the reminder to really do the hard math - both financial and emotional - when the used car I bought reaches the end of its life and 2) If you watched the video and the idea of living car free is overwhelming because you're not ready to do that hard math or, if in your circumstance, the math is *really* hard - it's ok. Doing the best you can with what you have now is ok.
When I moved to the city centre, I wanted to go car free. Unfortunately there are some areas of my city completely inaccessible by public transport and I have friends and family living there, so I had to keep the car. To encourage myself to drive less I purposefully passed on a parking spot in my building's basement but instead parked the car in a building a short walk away. This has worked really well, because if I'm already walking to drive somewhere, I may as well walk all the way, or walk to the bus station instead.
Living in a city where I can bike to take care of every day life needs has been a game changer. I thought I'd hate it but I really love it. I even bike just for fun now
Financial freedom is more accessible in the city 100k of tqqq or upro ETF produced enough capital gains annually over the last decade to cover all food and housing costs and an unlimited bus pass yearly.❤
I’ve lived without a car in London and didn’t ever need one. In Boston I did miss having a car with its terrible public transport. Also, if you have small children, having a car and a backyard are nice to have
Kudos to you Ray! I FIRE'd 2 years ago and have never been happier. I get to wake up without an alarm clock. I can take monthlong trips and spend time and energy doing what I love with the people I love. Every day is Saturday. Some people get anxious looking at an empty calendar, but to me there is no freedom like time freedom. Best of luck on your journey!
I live in a rural setting and my stepfather's business used to take him into a lot of houses. He noted that most of the large McMansions in the area were owned by people who had almost no money left over after paying their mortgage. There are a lot of large 4,000 ft² houses with almost no furniture and no wall hangings or treatments because they cannot afford furniture or decorations.
That's called being housepoor, and it's why single family houses were a mistake. The property tax, utilities (the construction quality is so shabby they're horribly inefficient, and thus the utility bills are a second mortgage), insurance, maintenance/repairs, etc will bankrupt you if the mortgage doesn't. People never consider this. I have no idea how anyone could comfortably afford these waste boxes. In the same area the electric cost for an apartment could be $80 a month and the cost for a sfh might be $800. All that dead space still has to get heated and cooled. We need to stop building only luxury housing and start building affordable.
The spending is outrageous here on Long Island. And everyone wants their house to be high in price then wonder why taxes get higher. Housing is a terrible investment!
Between maintenance, property taxes, and the rising cost of insurance, people really need to take a hard look at whether owning a house is right for them.
The buying vs renting debate starts with the assumption that you pay more to own that to rent and that is no longer the case for the majority of ordinary Americans
It's funny how Citynerd & I have come at life from completely different angles yet have arrived at the same conclusion. While he lead the conventional life, I lead a free-spirited, adventurous bohemian (and often broke!) one. Now I live car-free and minimalistic in LA. Not having a car can be a pain here but I'm richer with regards to my bank account, less stress and more time. And there's nothing more important in life to me than time.
I usually love your videos, but every video on lifestyle you have doesn't say anything about kids, school districts, or what happens when you and your spouse work in different cities. I believe these are quite common concerns for most people, and I find it hard to buy into car-less city living without addressing these.
Sold my car and moved to the city. Feels nice not getting hit with a random $500 maintenance issue twice a year. Not to mention having to worry about where to fit a refuel into my weekday. Last thing I'd want to do after getting off work.
I think my problem is worse than many other people. I love cities and urbanism, but I also love cars. I've loved cars and racing since I was a kid growing up in Eastern Europe and dreaming about driving a cool American,Japanese or German car. So my goal is to have a nice car and maybe multiple. Cars are not just a mode of transportation for me but a source of joy as well. At the same time, I hate the suburban NA lifestyle. I moved to Canada a few years ago after 30+ years of living in Europe. And I don't really like driving for my daily needs and sitting in traffic and looking for parking. I walk everywhere and take transit. The problem is that walkable cities here are freaking expensive, and then if you add the cost of car ownership in a dense city on top of that, it becomes quite a challenge to not go bankrupt.
My husband and I just moved from Rochester, NH (where we had 2 cars) to Davis, CA (where we have no car). Life is infinitely saner, healthier and more relaxed now. And yes, our mustaches are very bushy. Great video!
I retired early at 54. Sold everything including my house in WA state and now I travel around the world taking advantage of savings accounts in US dollars which makes living in places such as Japan an incredible cost savings. It has totally changed my life for the better.
When I lived in Seattle, I parked my car for 2 years without paying insurance to bike and use busses as my modes of transit. If I needed a car for a large grocery haul or to go to a far suburb, I would just get a Zipcar. Saved so much money that way!
I'm in Vancouver, and the car share options of Modo (cars that have to be returned to the place you got them, but are far cheaper for 2 or 3 hour shopping trips) and Evo (cars for one-way trips you that can pick up and leave anywhere in the city, but charge you by the minute) are a really useful adjunct to my normal bike/walk/transit life. It's all about options.
@@enjoystraveling I'm not sure if it's still around since I moved to the car-dependent Midwest more than a decade ago, but it's similar to the second option that the other comment here mentioned; it's a car share option when you rent a car by the hour (it started at $7.5/hr when I lived there) that you can pickup from nearby and drop off at other locations around the city. It was very convenient because they had cars within a 5 minute walk anywhere in Seattle and at $7.5/hr ($30/day), it was reasonably priced at the time!
Genuine question: I love cars as a hobby and I have several. I don't drive very much, and I know that the money I spend on them could significantly accelerate my path to FIRE. On the other hand, 1) I generally love my job and line of work; 2) I would want to play with cars in "retirement" anyway, especially since driving is somewhat physically demanding (difficult entry, joint pains, attention, reflexes, etc.), so I know my time to enjoy them is limited; and 3) I'm maximizing my savings as much as comfortably possible. (I also work remotely and live in a highly walkable neighborhood, with grocers, big box stores, post office, clinics, restaurants, banks, etc. all within 1 or 2 miles.) I guess there isn't a right or wrong answer per se, but I've been aiming to maintain a steady-state lifestyle of minimal work stress, maximal savings, and optimal life enjoyment, as opposed to a specific dollar amount and year to retire "early." Am I doing it right? People say "do what makes you happy," but it nonetheless feels like I have to constantly justify my choices whenever the subject comes up. EDIT: Also speaking to 2-car households, the only time we've ever _NEEDED_ two cars were for big services (for which a car would stay at the shop for multiple days) or for driving activities (cruising, meets, etc.). I definitely see and treat driving as leisure activities, and I think most households should optimally own 1 or fewer cars.
I moved from Palm Springs to San Diego (Bankers Hill) in 2022. I got rid of my car. My rent increased from $1200/month to $2000/month, but with the money I save from not having a car payment, insurance premiums, and all the rest, it was completely doable. I have an e-bike, and my apartment building is on a street with a physically-separated bike lane. Two bus lines run up and down the street at 15-minute intervals, and there's a third bus line three blocks away. Sadly, most people who live around here continue to own cars, and will drive 10 blocks to get to one of the nearby grocery stores or - my favorite - to the "spinning studio" - you know, so they can get some cardio exercise. 🙄
Moving to the city helped me escape crushing poverty. I was never able to afford a car with under 200,000 miles on it. They would break and wipe out my savings but in the suburbs i needed a car to work. Here in NYC with publ8c tranist and higher wages helped me escape that trap. Yes a box of cerial is double here but im still much better off.
Love this video. It’s certainly more challenging with kids, in the car-brained Midwest, but the wife and I are weaning ourselves off of cars. Home ownership is another matter, we’ve already made a good chunk from buying a “worst house in a good neighborhood” and doing a bunch of renovations, and it’s easier to not have to search for rentals if you have dogs. But every time I see a massive, $70k truck, I see an idiot who is wasting their money.
Excellent video, great to hear your take on such an interesting topic. I've gradually made lifestyle changes over the past 8 years to have more freedom with how I spend my time. A big part of that change has been ditching the car. At one point in my life, I bought a used Subaru for $11K and put 80K miles on it in 5 years. Including a monster year of 30K miles when I lived in Chandler, AZ and commuted by car alone every day to work in Casa Grande. Then I suffered a traumatic injury when I was hit by a car while riding my bike and that experience kicked off a number of changes in my life and took me down a path of figuring out how to escape a potential lifetime filled with work, debt and driving (my cat was also fatally hit by a car around the same time so I very quickly developed a hatred for cars). When I moved to a new town, which was still 30 miles from my work, I joined a local vanpool for the commute. We had a bike rack installed on the van so I could bike one-way when the weather was nice. I was able to dramatically reduce how often I drove...my car mostly sat in the garage and to get to the grocery store or downtown, I'd walk or take the bus. People thought that was weird. Then I moved to London, sold all of my stuff, including the car, and lived car-free for 5 years. In London, really makes no sense to have a car so this was a relatively easy change. I've since moved to a rural town in France in the Pyrenees. We have a train station which connects to the nearest city and the town is small enough that you can walk end-to-end within an hour. I still have no car, and when we do find the need for one, we just rent. I'm sure I've saved thousands and thousands of dollars living car free, not to mention the mental benefits of never having to worry or think about maintaining the car. I think most people underestimate how quickly they can adapt to a car-free or car-minimized lifestyle. It really does change the way you live and I've found I really like the constraints it puts on your life...simplifies how you make decisions of where to go and how to spend your time. If something is important enough, you'll walk or cycle or take a bus or carpool to get there. And the rest probably wasn't important enough to drive to anyways! I hope more people will try giving up or reducing their car usage, I bet they'll end up liking all the benefits it brings.
One of the most beautiful feelings in life is being able to afford everything you need in life. I have tasted what it means to be b r o ke and I can tell it’s not something you wish for anyone. Thanks to Larysa Caba, I don’t have to experience that kind of life anymore. I’m grateful and I will always be.
I feel one Of the greatest challenges that we first timers face in the ma rket is that we end up losing all we have,making it difficult to find ourselves back to our feet. My biggest advice is to always seek the services of a professional just like I did when I ventured into it for the first time. Big thanks to Larysa Caba. I now make huge profits by weekly through her services while still learning to stand on my own.
I think she trades for everyone I meet. I met her twice at a meeting in Germany and after her lectures from Ella I had to personally ask her to be my financial advisor. she is definitely good.
I have never seen a trader as open and transparent as Larysa Caba with her clients. The way she decides to make a profit for her clients. she allows you to express your fears and she still rests your fears and that is my respect. I don't normally comment on videos, but this word should be included. she is really cool.
I have been car free since 2019 and it has made my life so much easier. I see cars as archaic now as the future I long for is frequent and useful public transit. In my Montreal suburb it is only half frequent and partially useful but I can easily make do without car ownership.
What you call 'yard work' is enjoyable and essential leisure time for some people and many credit it with vast improvements to their mental health. Don't forget to avoid sounding dismissive yourself when challenging the status quo and trying to point people to your own vision; you might find it harder to win people over.
@@marshallsaltzman9924 You will love it and they've updated the public transit since I was last there (2012). The uptown and downtown are both nice and walkable. Climate is amazing. A lot of neat museums to visit near the base. Mexican food is great. Most of the buildings are pretty small (max 2-3 stories) so it's not as claustrophobic as bigger cities. You have to be careful about your water use though.
Sadly, it would take about 3 hours to get to my parents' house via public transit, but only an hour and 15 min to get there by car. I live in the "dense" northeast corridor.
Honestly Mr Money Mustache turned me off to bike commuting when I first read his article about it. I remember him being pretty dismissive of the concerns of people who live outside bike-friendly Colorado when pressed. Years later, I'm back to biking, after moving to a non-sprawling suburb that's close to my hometown. I'm working my way up to running more and more errands on a bike, as well as biking in all weather (I'm in the Midwest). It's much more approachable for me to consider going "car-lite" instead of "car-free". Btw I personally hate yard work too but my partner actually loves owning a house that he can work on and personalize, so it's not always up to the individual lol
This is so true. I live in Suburban San Antonio and just spent a few weeks in Mexico City. I didn't even take public transport there...I walked everywhere I needed to go. My airbnb was a large studio apartment; my home in SATX is a 1500 sq ft home. I felt cozier and just fine in the studio. I quicly developed a sense of community by seeing the same faces every morning at the different shops I would frequent to get my coffee or breakfast, even with a slight language barrier (my Spanish is poco haha). But even when I go to the ONE pedestrian-district in San Antonio (the Pearl), the difference in energy I feel is palpable. It feels nice. And the savings in ditching the car or lowering that gasoline bill is a plus too.
Thank you, I like your thoughts. I agree about cars and living in the city since I lived in a village with a car. I had this standard dream in my mind (maybe the impact of movies and media) of a house with a small garden and a car. And while such a setup might be nice for a short summer vacation, in real life I did use my car for everything and got way too sedentary. Never got fat but still I could clearly see the results on my health. Before, I lived in a city without a car and walked a lot. I realized also that I do not really enjoy taking a walk in a village or in nature as much as in a city. It can feel a bit dull and lonely and sometimes scary in a village or in nature, for a woman at least. I sold my car and now live again in a city, I think it is making me more happy than the idealized home in the suburbs
I don’t understand your point about the opportunity cost of owning a house. You said the S&P 500 has outperformed housing price increases. Sure. But it’s not like the absence of a mortgage opens all that money up for investing. Figure out the true cost of ownership (mortgage, HOA, maintenance, closing costs, etc.) and compare that to rent. Since your mortgage is fixed (insurance, maintenance, etc. can go up) and rent has done nothing but skyrocket in my town over the past few years, I’ve gotten to a point where I’d be spending more money monthly if I were still renting.
@@bionj1980 well yeah, all real estate does, but that doesn’t change the fact the analysis here implied that any money spent on home ownership is money that could have been thrown into other investments, which is wrong. You always have to consider how much you’d spend on renting and consider the deltas. The actual numbers always vary, but the analysis presented here is just wrong.
These situations always depend on the individual's options. Someone who didn't buy a home 10, 20, 30 years ago is not getting the same lower mortgage as the person who has owned their home for 10 years.
There's an opportunity cost to your down payment, and if your down payment is small, you're paying PMI. There are a lot of cases where that opportunity cost is high.
I love your channel and wish you would factor in school district ratings into your calculations. That’s one of the main factors when we were choosing where to live, that and being close to family.
Great video, but i take issue with the concept that owning your home is for the "investment." I own because I provide myself RENT CONTROL. Doug Ford ended rent control for new units in Ontario, and i have friends who were forced to move their families because their landlord wanted a 25% increase. Others had to move because the landlord decided to sell the house and the new owners wanted to move in. If it's not a purpose-built rental--and very few family-sized PBRs exist-- you live in constant risk of losing your home to landlord whims.
Indeed. Well, developers are doing this unofficially. You know all the ugly giant mcmansions popping up all over Queens and Nassau? They're actually apartments. They're single family homes to the NYC tax bureau, but owners build them specifically to rent out individual rooms. This drives up property costs even more to the point only not-apartments can afford the tax bill
NIMBY is one of those rare beliefs that has bipartisan support (but at least Republicans are anti-rent-control which is the very worst manifestation of this idea)
Excellent advice. When I bought a car after a lifetime of not owning one, I couldn’t bring myself to drive to work or to drive five blocks to pick up groceries. I was so accustomed to walking and public transit that I only used it for trips out of town. My car ownership days didn’t last long. I also own an apartment. Life was simpler when I was renting.
I need a video that targets the suburban/exurban typical person who somehow is convinced they must live out in the countryside or a forest and cannot be anywhere near a city. Is there any type of medium/small-sized city that somehow almost satisfy both? (I don't need this, I love cities... just hate how this comes up all the time it feels like and I have no response to it)
I'm a US-American, but I've been living abroad since I graduated university. I have a career that pays substantially less that my siblings, but because I've lived in places that were walkable/bikeable and have decent public transit. I have a standard of living that is just as comfortable. The fact that I have never had to buy a car and pay the associated costs is a BIG part of that.
I don't want to spend a lot of time doing yard work per se, but I do prefer to grow my own vegetables rather than buy them at the store. I don't need a massive yard for that, but having a yard is nice. Not even the best 100% organic, farm to market tomato is as good as one that was still on the vine 5 minutes ago in your backyard. The same thing goes for zucchini or cucumbers, or peppers or string beans. While I'm not a vegetarian, I do try very hard to eat a plant heavy diet and go very sparingly on meat and dairy. Having a bounty of fresh vegetables in my backyard that I know are pesticide free and haven't been fertilized with God knows what kind of chemicals definitely makes it easier and tastier to eat in as healthful a way as possible.
On the point of car ownership, I sold my car last year and am very happy with that choice. I am a 15/20 minute drive from the city centre in Melbourne (Australia) and in a bunch of suburbs in this range we have car share schemes (Popcar, GoGet). Cars parked on various streets where whenever you need a car, you can rent by the hour using only an app. $5 per hour, or $44 AUD per day. Do this 2-3 times per month, and would never reach the cost of ownership of a car. Never cannot get a car when I need, and don’t need to deal with registration, insurance, repairs, servicing. The point of finding excuses to use the car as much as possible is also very true!
One underrated risk in owning a house is overinvesting: "People BUY bigger houses/apartments than what they rent!" People buy their property for their estimated maximum needs (e.g.. when you have 2 teenage kids), but end up owning the 150SQM apartment from "your 20ies with no kids" until "retirement home". Despite actually needing a 150SQM apartment for only 10 years. Even if you pay 2% (guesstimate) less on owned property than you would on rented propperty, if your property is 60% larger than your actually needs, it will still be a vast overpayment. As rentee, you can easily switch apartments, free up the cash, and invest it, with returns.
CN would probably better understand why relatively few people choose the carless urban option if he didn't 'cook the books' quite so much. For one thing, cars don't need to be nearly as expensive as he suggests -- you can spend that much, but you certainly don't have to if you drive a smaller, older, fuel efficient car. And low density SFH life has savings and urban living has costs that he doesn't account for. Taxes are higher in the city. Grocery shopping is harder and more expensive, while restaurants are much more plentiful. Live in the city, and you'll likely be eating out (and ordering out) much more often. You can count that as a benefit, but it's also a way to blow through a LOT of money. If you're raising a family, you may be looking at pricey private school tuition (as big city public school systems in the US tend to be lousy). If you have a house with a basement, you can work out at home -- in the city, you'll likely be paying for a gym membership. And many of the things you can store in your house or garage aren't just superfluous 'stuff' -- they're things that enrich your life (for example, outdoor equipment like skis, snowboards, kayaks, paddleboards, camping gear, etc). Also -- in the city, the constant noise (traffic, construction, neighbors) and light pollution (and also pollution pollution) aren't great for human mental and physical health. The idea of living below your means, saving money, and having time for the things you really care about can be done anywhere -- not only (or even especially) in big cities.
Residential real estate is a hot investment... if you live in the Bay Area or NYC, which the vast majority of us do not. The stories of people who build an ADU on their lot, pay off their mortgage and retire early to travel the world on the passive income are from very, very specific pockets of the country with bonkers housing markets.
Suburban dweller logic: Living in a city and paying $3,000/month for rent: bad Living in a suburb and paying $2,000/month for rent + $500 for a car + $200 in insurance + $200 in gas + earning $1,000/month less than in a city: Good
City dweller logic Living in a city where you rent is 3K + paying for public transportation + higher prices for food + your 2K e-bike + higher crime + having to earn 100K+ a year while living in a shoebox: GOOD
I am set up for lighter car use in a college-town center in a populated northeast corridor, adjacent to a larger city that is a cultural and medical hub. I try to group errands and my new career leg lends itself to eventually partly or fully at home online. In a single-level 2BR (larger is office/studio/partial library) age-in-place condo purchased for under $100k, combined monthly costs with FHA mortgage less than a smaller rental, but still have some updates to do. Do not foresee much travel out of region or adjacent, have a few bucket list trips in mind for EU/UK. Looking forward to the advantage of high speed rail between the major cities Boston to DC, for better access to museums and concerts if there is an event of strong interest.
I'm surprised there isn't more crossover between urbanist RUclips and the FIRE movement. I definitely came to the former by way of the latter, and I think both movements speak to people who appreciate efficiency. I came across the FIRE movement and Mr. Money Mustache in early 2018, and my spreadsheet projects I'm now approximately 5 years away from hitting my FIRE number, even in NYC, frequently rated one of the most expensive places to live.
A prerequisite to FIRE is also to be high income. The philosophy is nice, but its difficult to be proselytized to by people who spend more in a year than you make.
@@SomeDudeQC While the FIRE community got saturated with high earners over the last decade, initially it had far more people who earned around average income and just lived very frugal lifestyles to achieve high savings rates. FIRE is obviously inaccessible to a large fraction of the population, but its also not a strictly top 10% thing.
@@SomeDudeQC It's not a prerequisite; it just makes it a lot easier. One of the best things about MMM is that his blog has 1001 ways to spend less money.
@@aozora7 A few things can help normal people achieve at least the FI part outside of high income. One is starting early. Another is the incredible bull run the market has been on in the last fifteen years. For FIRE to be accessible to normal incomes, it needs to have rising stock prices which requires growth which requires most people stay on the hamster wheel of consumption.
@@gamelord12 I make average money and spend very little. We moved to a more affordable city and chose to live in the cheaper, more central, but more run down area. We have an old beater but mostly bike, walk and bus. We budget every cent, clip coupons and buy very little. I can save about 1k a month. At a 4% real rate of return, I can hopefully expect to retire with 600k at 65.
I deliver pizza and my coworkers think I'm crazy when I tell them I never* drive except for work. I'm putting enough miles on my car as it is. Why would I add even more when no one is paying me to? *Except moving big stuff. Can't really bring a coffee table home on the bus
Paying for the house you're living in is not really comparable to putting money into the stock market. You need to live somewhere. Money put into rent is just gone. I'd really like to stop immediately dumping 60% of my take-home income into a bottomless money hole, and instead use it to fill a deep but finite money hole that I could empty out into another, different deep but finite money hole in another place.
I vibe with your tone and body language so much... Makes me very attentive to what you have to say. I am somewhat on the journey towards Fire, but in an old canadian suburb with an old van. We keep our maintanence standards low and get help from family. We have a grocery store 3 minutes away and shop light. Its not an idillic city experience but its good enough given I get to enjoy nature very close to my house, keep to myself while exploring, and enjoying proximity to family. I cant say I am maximizing my time and money perfectly, but as a young father I have to be patient, and look forward to more time later in my daughters life to dedicate to my personal interests. I wish I could convince my wife to live in an apartment, but it wouldnt happen without some real financial hardship to convince her. I have a hard time working my day job remotely, and am praying for a big life event to split me from it at some point, though I dare not quit. Thanks for the content.
Okay, important question that is unrelated to your video. CityNerd, you're going to want to skim past this, but don't okay? That adorable cat at the end of your video. Was he or she running around or playing just before you filmed that clip? Was something stressful going on? Did you speed up the clip for some reason? I'm asking because Kitty took 21 breaths in 15 seconds, for a respiratory rate of 84 breaths a minute. That's way too high unless the kitty was out of breath from activity or has an underlying health issue - anything over 30 bpm is concerning, and anything over 40 could be very serious. If this is something you're already aware of and are working with a vet on, feel free to ignore this comment. If Kitty was just chasing the dog or getting the zoomies, then it's probably no big deal. But, if not please get Kitty to the vet, because the sooner you figure out what's going on, the more options you have for dealing with it.
This whole video was really just a long way of saying, if you could just cut out the $16 avocado toast you'd be retiring from the workforce in your early 20's. But, since you've decided that $16 avocado toast is non-negotiable, you might as well spend a couple bucks a month on a subscription to Nebula, the creator-owned streaming service where you can find all my videos ad-free, promotion-free, AND EARLY. It's a great way to support what I do, too! Use my link here to get the best deal, and check the description box for more options. go.nebula.tv/citynerd
Hey Ray! Yeah I also don't love the way retirement is framed as the goal of wealth accumulation, so I'm a bigger fan of the FINE (Financial Independence, New Endeavor) movement/framing
@@quentinthernize6678 I call it FIFE (Financial Independence, Freedom Early)
Looooooool 😂
$16 omg! I could eat out lots but by NOT eating out and not buying expensive meat I save oodles of money.
I find a lot of the dense urban car-free living ideas to forget that some of us actually have multiple kids. Downtown car-free living is how my wife and I want to “retire” but it’s unrealistic before our kids leave the nest. People usually live in the suburbs and drive big cars for a reason.
“The government doesn’t need to threaten me with incarceration within a 15 minute city, I’ll gladly do it myself” was the most underrated line in this whole video lol. I’m car free since 2013, and have been urban city living since then up until this year. I lost my job and had to move in with family about an hour away in the suburbs. There are no sidewalks. Everything is a 15-20 min drive away. My family is incredibly sedentary. I’m more depressed and unhealthy than I’ve ever been and am praying for the day I can find remote employment get back to the city again.
I had some exams at the doctor and had a stress test and I have passed stage one and two and part of three and the doctor told me that some people much younger than me which are still in their 30s cannot even pass the second stage because they’re too sedentary !! This may show up not too much later in their life with high blood pressure, diabetes, and more body fat and they want.
The second stage of the stress test is moderate fast walking
Start posting videos on what you're doing and your goals. Ask for people to help you. Post a donate button ❤
15 minutes cities are tyranny, having to drive miles to get anywhere worth going is freedom
(Hope your luck takes a good turn!)
"Just drive to the gym bro" 😂
I live in Queens, a very walkable part of NYC. Not too long ago, I was at a playdate with my daughter, and her friend's dad suggested we go out for lunch. We decided on a Tibetan restaurant very close to us. In fact, the restaurant is exactly a ten-minute walk from their house. This man looked me in the face and suggested we take his car there. When you mention that car owners find excuses to use their car, you weren't kidding.
I've crashed at a friend's place out of town, and because it was drizzling a little bit, they suggested driving across the street to the convenience store rather than just wearing a hood or getting an umbrella.
@@gamelord12 🫠
I’m a car owner, and I’d just walk
There's a popular mall nearby, obviously surrounded by a parking lot, and across the street is a big strip mall that's also popular and lined on the side with a parking lot. My wife was hanging out with friends at the mall and they wanted to go across the street to the strip mall, and they all looked at my wife like she was insane for saying they should just walk. It probably took them longer to go to the car and find parking at the new place than to have just walked a couple hundred feet.
...in QUEENS?! Madness
My view of this is a bit different. I watched my parents reach an age where they could no longer drive. They lived in a car-dependent suburb, and the loss of mobility was devastating, especially for my father. I've been telling my wife our next move needs to be with this in mind. We need to be in a place where we can reach grocery stores, restaurants, a YMCA, pharmacies, doctors, and other services without having a car.
it would be great if I could afford such a place
This is something I wish cities thought about more. Many people can't drive. Building car centric cities is unfair.
@@m.rosebarlow7699we need to make cities more affordable
I knew someone in their 80s that could still walk fine, but he lost his peripheral vision and should not be driving
Vastly underrated comment. It’s so easy to think about what works for life right now, without thinking about the implications a few decades down the road.
An aspect of FIRE rarely talked about is maintaining health to then enjoy that financial freedom. Biking and walking instead of relying on a car are incredibly beneficial for long term health, whereas studies increasingly find that sedentary behavior (e.g. driving) is one of the worst things you can do to your body
Not to mention that exercising really stretches your health span minimizing any age related health expenses you may need later in life.
And also the mentality/ability to figure things out, and deal with setbacks. Through-hiking and riding my bike everywhere taught me a lot about life that I find hard to explain to those who have never done it.
Unless you get hit by a car while biking or walking, or breathe in too much pollution generated by cars.
Edit: /s
@@deadhead3100 If you drive to get around for everything, your chance of becoming an unhealthy or just less healthy person is far higher than your chance of getting hit when walking or biking. And the health benefits from doing those things also outweigh the risks from breathing in car exhaust.
@@deadhead3100 ah yes, crashes and pollution, only risks pedestrians face
I sold both my cars and moved out of the suburbs to an affordable walkable area, largely thanks to this channel. Never been happier. Thanks Ray!
If you can make it work, it's a life changer
What city?
@@BrysonBuilds Philly
@@forestfeller My sister used to live there! Great place. She eventually left when she wanted to start a family, though -- you just can't do that when you have to live with three roommates to afford rent.
wait, I dont need to buy a new iPhone, renovate the kitchen and get a new SUV every 2 years? wtf
No, but if you do, you can whine about unfairness and boomers and be cool. So, there’s that.
Correct, it's every 3 years now! 😂
That has nothing to do with where you live?
@@nunyabidness3075 Yeah, the whole generation wars stuff is played out and lame
@@bistro-tat did you just skip the first 5 minutes of the video?
I once again am bringing up the urbanist visionary Ben Folds and his foundational text, "Rockin' The Suburbs" as heard in the award winning film, Over the Hedge: "We drive our cars every day to and from work both ways so we make just enough to pay to drive our cars to work each day; hey, hey"
I just saw Ben Folds live a few weeks ago. Didn’t realize before then how cool he was!! Writes about really interesting stuff
Dude I have been preaching about this song to my friends for YEARS. People just don’t understand the real satire behind the movie and the music
@@dylb0t One could argue that the version of the song modified for the movie is more provocative than the original
Classic
@@tod2450 Yeah I saw that video essay lol
Reading Mr. Money Mustache changed my life. I always think if I hadn’t been alive in the age of financial bloggers, I’d have not been able to retire … er, stop working. My life is simple in NYC, with no car, no housing maintenance, etc. Lately though I’ve been exposed to people leading very nice lives with so much more material possessions, and feeling a bit like a weirdo. I needed this video today, so thank you.
Yeah I think one underdiscussed aspect of FIRE is social - you sometimes end up with friends who want to go to super nice restaurants all the time, etc., and then it creates social tension when you're figuring out where to go. I like a nice restaurant occasionally, but like 5-10 times a month is NOT in my budget like it is for some people who make a lot of money and then, just...spend all of it
@@CityNerd I was contemplating a hybrid job in San Francisco, and the possibility of being expected to go out for lunch with them every week or more, and doing calculations like "$30/week * 50 weeks = $1500/year of post-tax income". And with SF these days, $30 might be one lunch, not three...
How can life be simple in the most expensive city ?
@@leeche87 Simple pursuits and everything CityNerd talks about in this video. The prices hurt but just because something's expensive doesn't mean you have to buy it. ... oh and find affordable rent by moving to a "less desirable" neighborhood, ahead of the curve, before everyone else follows, ha ha.
@@kriserts which district of NYC is affordable ? I was there and none of them was affordable ,unless it's outside NYC. Even milk in supermarket was expensive there..do you actually have to live there for your job ?
We just did a similar evaluation and sold our house in the suburbs and moved to a high rise apartment. I have so much more free time not having to maintain a yard or drive everywhere.
Yard work is a terrible time and money sink. If I ever buy a house it will not have a grass yard.
When I sold my first house and went back to renting an apartment, that was the thing that hit me my first or second weekend. I immediately started thinking of what yard work I had to do that weekend, and how much time I had free to do other things, and "Wait! No yard! No yard work at all! It's all free time this weekend! All of it!"
I just hire a Mexican crew to come over every other week for $35. Lawn, trim, air blow, and put mulch.
You don't get to have a home garden outside your door?
Sad for you...
Okay, I'd love to learn more about the choice of selling your house and renting instead. Long term, do you think that renting will at least break even with the cost of owning a house without a mortgage? We are considering doing the same thing at 40 and 38, but are afraid that the housing expense will be larger in the long run? We live the the Midwest for reference.
The wife and I discovered FIRE about 11 years ago and set in place a plan to retire at 50. Well, we hit our number 3 years early and we both quit our jobs. The plan is to move around the world while we are still in good health (Costa Rica now, Thailand next). FIRE really changed our lives for the better. A big part of our FIRE plan was downsizing our suburban house for a semi-urban condo and not upgrading our cars every 2-3 years. We still drove a lot but with two paid of cars it was very cheap. Great video, CityNerd!
If you don’t mind me asking, what was your number?
@@KhanJoltrane 2M
@@KhanJoltrane I think it’s not just the number of net worth they earned, but also they’re living in less expensive countries and have a less expensive life
@@enjoystraveling I’m wondering what it takes to have a life like theirs
@@KhanJoltrane Our yearly budget for the next year is around 50k. We plan to be around that number for the next few years until we can access our 401k funds without penalty.
Not that this is what your video is about, but to point out that one of the biggest critiques of the F.I.R.E. movement is that it is inherently a rich persons game. The idea that you can cut your spending to almost nothing and save aggressively to retire early assumes you have a job that pays enough for that to be an option rather than just what you have to do to survive. Or that you don’t have dependents. Or chronic illness. Lot of good things in “don’t over consume” (and as you point out so much of American life is over consumption as a default), but for most people most of the time FIRE isn’t an actual star they can employ
You don't need to be rich to be able to save money.
I went car free for two years and, while I saved money and paid down my student loans, I lost a ton in personal time. Instead of spending 30-40min a day commuting, it was 90min EACH WAY. Getting groceries was an extra chore. Before anyone argues that I could have moved closer to work, that would have defeated the whole purpose as an apartment downtown is more than twice what I'd spend on a car to commit
I agree a 90 minute commute is intolerable.
Yeah, that was my experience too when I was carless. I spent WAY more time commuting and I was just exhausted all the time. I try to walk or bike every day when feasible, but having a car is absolutely worth it for me for time saved
ok, so?
Or what if a household has 2 working adults with jobs in the opposite directions 1 hour each way?? Then how many cities have a decent transport system?? Not so many!!
@@kaythegardener Then you'll have a hard time saving and retiring early. Too bad.
For me doing outdoorsy stuff is very necessary to my happiness, and that’s super hard without a car. For how often I take trips that are impossible without a car (eg going hiking in the mountains), and due to my current job being inaccessible by transit, my household needs 1 car. But we are always making choices to avoid a second car because the marginal expense would be so high.
I'm in that boat too. And though I do most of what I can to keep that vehicle cost down (paid $5000 cash for older used car, drive very little), I acknowledge that I am less wealthy as a result, even if I'm in a different stratosphere than most car owners.
Most people have a vice in their personal finances somewhere, the key is just to not have too many or have them be too extreme.
Me too! I'm in the mountains or desert every weekend, and love road tripping to national parks. I couldn't do this stuff without a car. In saying that, I bought a 7k car with cash and live in a small apartment in a walkable area, so that all helps cost-wise. I have done many years without cars when I've lived places in the central city with no parking, and it was indeed freeing, but I also do live to get out of the city and go hiking and camping, and would miss that greatly. Car-lite definitely works best for me - I don't need a fancy car and only use it when I need it. I still walk and take the bus or trolley a lot.
Furthermore I can sleep in my car before/after my outdoor trips which would cost me one or two nights in paid accomodation even if the outdoor location was accessible by public transport...otoh as long as said car is cheaper than the bicycle in the trunk you're doing it right ;)
Wait! Who am I to defend car ownership? Usually I am the one confusing other people (like my neighbours) because I am home but my car isn't - or - even more confusing my car is home but I am NOT!
@@sunglassesemojis same! Tough to get to the coast from my city without a car. I bike or walk to everything in town, but drive to the surf. Also, to kids’ soccer games in far-flung locales, but at least we carpool.
This is possible with public transit in my country! I will admit some things are less accessible, but you *can* totally do it here. Also, I do lots of cycling which is outdoorsy but I can leave from my door. This is not to be annoying about my superior public transit connections but rather to inspire that it is possible to enjoy these things even car-free IF better comprehensive public transit is implemented, and you cannot push for what you can't imagine.
This video is the reason why im choosing to move to a high density city where cars aren’t needed. im 22, have a job in software lined up, and want to FIRE by the time im 40. My parents cannot comprehend that I don’t plan on buying a car, but I will be saving thousands that will directly be going into Roth/401k. Great video as always :)
absolutely insane that the prospect of not dropping a 25k+ expense on a motor vehicle and prioritizing your future wellbeing instead, is seen as odd. it's simply beyond me
It's amazing going car free. Did the same for my first 7 years in Seattle and only got a car in 2021 because I was tired of renting during the pandemic but wanted to do more outdoorsy stuff
It was one of the few times in history where a new car (at 0% APR because no one was buying st the time) actually was worth more a few months after buying it (chip shortage).
Ironically I could only "afford" it at that point because we were living the DINK life with good careers and we could actually afford 1.2k/month in insurance+loan+parking.
That said I still drive it so infrequently I killed the battery and had to buy a battery tender
An ebike is where the sweet spot is. You can do your weekly grocery run and it keeps up with vehicle traffic on city streets + let's you actually go up hills in sf or Seattle
At that age, city life has a lot of advantages. Years from now you might want something different. The other option is WFH in cheaper (probably rural) housing. Vanlife is another option. All 3 can be done with similar total budgets.
@@cjmassino do old people just not live in Tokyo or Amsterdam or Paris?
Pay 3K in rent.....act like you've come out on top. LOL!
A miracle has happened. My son the car addict had his car totaled and he has received a settlement. He now does not see any reason to buy a new car! Excellent!
But will he buy a used car or use another mode of transportation to get to places? As a car enthusiast, I like using public transportation. It’s available in my area, the problem is is there isn’t a bus air train that can get me too and from the office. A car is the only option to drive the 5 miles to work and 5 miles back home. I considered a bike, but there aren’t bike lanes halfway down the road and drivers here are terrible. I really love my cars, but I want a fun convertible like a Mazda Miata to drive up to the mountains and enjoy the roads. But I also have little kids, so I have to drive a practical 4 door car and my wife thinks that an SUV is the only option to haul the family around. First world problems. 🤣
@@brian0410 Absolutely see your point. My son is 26 and was living in Los Angeles where he relied on his car. Now that he’s back in San Francisco he has many options; including walking. I agree public transportation isn’t feasible many places
I am also most curious to see how Asheville NC recovers from flooding. Do they build amazing public transportation and not rebuild freeways? We didn’t after the 1989 earthquake
@@dianethulin1700 I can relate to relying on a car. I lived outside of Austin, Texas for 4 years and you absolutely had to rely on a car. I moved back to my home city which is just outside of Salt Lake City but all kind of connected. We have public transportation that is pretty good I think. It’s UTA. It has busses, Trax, and Frontrunner. The front runner is basically a train, the Trax is kind of subway/trolley. I used to work downtown SLC years ago and drive to the TRAX/Frontrunner stations and take them downtown to work. I loved it. I could just sit and enjoy music or read a book, do homework or whatever. Instead of sitting in traffic in my car. I saved tons of money on gas. After a while I got used to getting dropped off at work with my dad who worked in the same area and I would take the train home and then walk the mile and a half to get home. Back then I was 26. Now I’m 35 and wish I could still do that. There is a bus I can hop on to get to work now, but my company only provides discounted passes with UTA to use the Frontrunner/TRAX and not the busses. By the time I could drive to or walk to a station, I might as well drive. And I hate sitting in the rush hour traffic. As for the damage done with the hurricane. I do think they should look at public transit instead of fixing the highways. I mean they can fix the highways. But they need to have public transit so that people who don’t own a car or may choose to hop on a train can get out of dodge before the storm hits. They had issues with traffic jams because everyone and their dog was in a car stuck on the roads. The whole USA needs to work on public transportation infrastructure. I know it’s not needed in rural areas. But they should make it at least go around the city and maybe to the major airports like we do in Salt Lake City. Our Frontrunner goes from Ogden, through SLC, down to Provo. It’s about a 40 mile stretch for that one line and it’s great. We can’t use the excuse that the country is too big, we have all the space to make it happen. I would love a train that goes from SLC to Vegas and then onto LA or San Francisco often enough to make it an option for those who may not want to fly.
@@brian0410I have the exact same problem man. I live about 20 miles from work and Ive tried biking that, but its just too hard and dangerous in places. Bus routes are about $55 a month and are limited.
@@jshowao You could check into getting an e-bike, scooter, or small displacement motorcycle. At 24 my 2-year old Honda was stolen in Chicago. Between struggling to find parking, tickets, permits, higher insurance, etc, I didn’t replace it and took public transportation. For trips outside the city or away from train lines, I wound up buying a used 400cc Honda motorcycle; I wound up not having a car for 15 years, after moving to an apartment with off-street parking.
Every family has that one person who will break the family financial struggle, I hope you become the one😊
Everyone needs more than their salary to be financial stable. The best thing to do with your money is to invest it rightly, because money left for saving always end up used with no returns.
I’m looking for something to venture into on a short term basis, I really need to create an alternate source of income, what do you thing I should be buying?
Kate Mellon Bruce is not just my family’s financial advisor, she’s a licensed and FINRA agent who other families in the US employs her services
She's active on face book @
Kate Mellon Bruce
We bought into the "save money living in the city for 15 years but slipped just a little further and just a little further into debt every year. Gave up, took a small paycut to work from home and moved to a small community with cheap housing (no more mortgage) and sold our tiny Toronto home. We had enough money left over to make healthy contribution to retirement savings, kids college and bought used car in cash. We have enough space for our family now. We rarely eat out. We've lost weight, dropped stress, and actually participate in local community.
In theory city living is supposed to be healthier but we were exhausted and kept waiting for it to get easier. It didn't work for our family.
This succintly describes many of the reasons I've chosen to be car-free that none of my peers or family members tend to understand. The American Dream of the suburban house with the white picket fence to isolate you from everyone else is so entrenched in the American psyche that challenging its value is too world-changing to consider for many people who have already sacrificed their lives to it, and I think that's an incredible shame. Just like the diamond industry convinced our whole society that spending far too much money on a diamond ring was an intrinsic part of getting married, and now people can't imagine a modern time in which that wasn't the case, Americans have been taken captive by the automobile and single family housing.
Our family actually enjoys having a full sized house and good backyard for BBQ and parties with friends and family.
I have a house AND I'm car-free. It doesn't have to always be one or the other. And it's nice to be able to practice music without bothering my neighbors.
What's your point? @@JonathanRootD
@CityNerd you're right, yardwork sucks, but gardening doesn't so much, and helps out with one of the issues a lot of folks in lower income areas in cities have: fresh fruits and veggies. I think a lot of people also get a sense of connection to the land through gardening, and it makes trekking out to "nature" (I believe you talked about some of those difficulties in a recent video) less necessary.
That might be a good top ten list sometime, best cities for urban gardeners.
And no, not lawns. Green lawns are an abomination everywhere that doesn't have the humidity of Ohio.
I agree, yard work is pointless
native plant gardening rocks. in a lot of ways it just takes care of itself and you reap the benefits
A suburban backyard garden can produce plenty of herbs, a lot of squash, and the occasional seasonal fruit, but for feeding a family it's terribly inefficient compared to just having a decent grocer nearby. Backyard gardening is wonderful for many reasons but I think we need to stop dreaming that it's a scalable answer to food insecurity.
Yeah - yard work isn't for every one I guess, but I find it really satisfying/calming to mow the lawn, rake the leaves, weed the garden, etc. for a few hours. It's a form of connection with nature, albeit at a pretty basic level. 🙂
farming should be done at scale. the food desert "problem" is because the local shoppers do not want to pay half price for fresh food trucked to the store from a nearby distribution center. Its not going to be reliably fixed by backyard farms or small community farms that cost twice as much in resources and labor.
also, food deserts are not a problem because we have shelf stable solutions that provide all the nutrition you need. An unrefrigerated vending machine could literally solve an entire community's malnutrition, if only community members cared enough about their own health.
Amen! I quit a very stable and well-paying job, sold my house, sold my car and spent a year living out of a backpack in my late 40s. Then I actually upsized my life by buying a motorhome and an electric bike. It's been liberating in ways that I'm hard-pressed to fully explain to anyone who's never tried it.
Sure, I constantly get people who tell me I'm living their dream life. The thing is, they could have that dream life if they just made a few slightly different choices. I still work a full time job but I currently make less than half what I was before and have more disposable income. More importantly, I have more adventure, more excitement, more time freedom… basically more of all the things that matter to me.
100% that is the trap. Most people don't want to figure out the details and prefer to stay in the rut... some have realities, older parents they have to support, etc. However, most people never want to go through the exercise of wants vs needs.
That feeling when City Nerd confesses to being a fellow Mustachian
I live out bush in Western Australia and I appreciate the caveat that this specific lifestyle isn't feasible for all. We actually live in a very walkable bush town with everything we need on our doorstep. Living a (nearly) waste free life and making our home more sustainable is enough happiness for us, despite the absolutely awful few years of uncertainty we've experienced. Love your channel! 💚
In the US, the old school (train station based) small towns are almost more dense/urban than the bigger cities. Of course, they are also sadly being developed more suburban/car centric and the city centers are dying. Same issue, different scale.
I walk or take public transportion most everywhere I go. I moved back to San Francisco during Covid. It is cheaper for me to live in this expensive city rather than commute with cheaper rent elsewhere. A vehicle is the difference maker
Where were you commuting from? The only place I can think of that had rent comparable to SF is San Jose
@@malaquiasalfaro81 Oakland
I've been planning on moving to SF, following my partner who moved up there recently. Been thinking about getting a motorcycle 🏍️ rather than owning a traditional car & of course getting a bike. 🚲
How do you like the City living? How do you keep costs down?
@@outboardgull5285 My boyfriend rides a motorcycle and it’s much easier for him to get around and to park
I figured out hedonic adaptation when I managed to purchase my first house in my 20's. I then started to fantasize not simply about owning a home, but owning a larger, nicer one in a nicer neighbourhood. And then it hit me that there was no end to this cycle: there would always be a larger, nicer home in a nicer area just out of reach. So obviously that wasn't any sort of path to happiness and I should stop pursuing it. Have owned two cars, both bought used with cash. Did the numbers and saw how car loans and new car depreciation were for suckers. Also lived car-free for a decade (what persuaded me to get another one was my interest in hiking and the outdoors). Have mostly lived in what are regarded as expensive cities yet not focusing on acquiring material things has given me the freedom to work a lot less than most do. Having a life that revolves around owning cars and driving them everyplace has never appealed to me.
I heard from one of the city nerds videos that if you live in Seattle if you can get hiking places by public transport
Sometimes it's hard to buy a good used car though. Ive owned plenty of used cars and they often are equally money pits with the amount of problems they tend to have. With a new car, if you treat it well enough, it can stay nice for over a decade.
@@enjoystraveling that’s true, but only for a few relatively popular trailheads. If you want to get away from the crowds, you really can’t beat a car. Cars have their place, just usually not in the city.
@@enjoystraveling Or Vancouver, or Portland, or a number of places. But as another person observed, it is only a few trails. By far the main use of my vehicle is to get out of the city. In the city, I use biking and transit.
@@jshowao I have had good luck buying late-model used cars (i.e. used cars that are about a year old). Only had to do it twice because once I buy it, I hold on to it. When my current vehicle becomes undriveable, I may well opt to not replace it and to rent cars when I want to get out of the city.
For the most part, I agree with a lot of this. But a lot of things to ask about here:
- Yes, buying a new car is not "cost efficient", but, and I say this as I only recently bought my first new cars. My last 2 used cars, 1 cost me $8,000 in 6 weeks to keep running (with still a ton of things on the list), and the other had a catastrophic failure. And that almost cost my wife her job.
- If a person has the money for it, is it wrong to buy something you WANT, regardless of how much you drive. I don't drive much, but got what I wanted, and get to enjoy it. Even while taking the kids around to their varying appointments. There is something to be said for people to find their own happiness
- Having kids really kills this.
- There's really an assumption, at least for retire early, that you'll be healthy all the time, and while I bike a lot and exercise a lot, but as I approach 50, the more health problems I have started to experience, and the harder it has been to keep my exercising pace
- I've been working at great jobs for the last 20 years, but they have been in downtown Chicago and NYC, and the cost to live in central NYC or Chicago well outweighs the costs of living in the suburbs or fringes. In nyc I lived in the Bronx, the rent was less than half of what I could find below 96th street, but commuting was long, though affordable. But I also had to pay the NYC income tax of 3%. In Chicagoland, there's no city tax, but buying a home in the city vs one in the suburbs is a no brainer. But owning, regardless of it being an apartment in a large well kept building, or a home in the suburbs, there is a cost to keep it cared for, so the location only matters if transportation or other features add to the expenses, and in my case, with the kids, it is more expensive to live in the city proper than to live in the suburbs.
Every person's needs, and experiences will differ, and depending upon the city, those costs will change (you recently talked about Greensboro and Winston Salem North Carolina, and both are affordable whether you live in the city proper or out in the suburbs. But I'm not there because an equivalent job in those cities pays almost 1/3rd what I make currently, but the costs don't go down by the same amount.
Whoa thanks for these generous thoughts CityNerd!
Of course I'm in total agreement with the financial aspects of car-lite living and also like to emphasize the physical and mental health benefits which are overlooked: biking and walking are good for you in every way, whereas car driving is like pounding shots of whiskey for your health - I find that I need to do roughly an hour of exercise and stretching just to recover from every hour of car driving and get back to the neutral point!
Yes I still own a car because I love big road trips (and they happen often because I'm retired!) - but the bike is still the only form of transportation for local trips within my own small city.
Personal finance is how I discovered many of these urbanist ideas. I was a pizza delivery driver using my own car and started tracking how much gas/miles I was driving because I was pretty much filling my tank every shift. From there I started mapping out what my cheapest per mile transit I could move pizzas around. I looked at Priuses and Mopeds but pretty much realized nothing beats biking/e-biking. You'll likely see places like dominos have company E-bikes for. The drivers now too.
I've been car-free my entire life, as I simply detest driving; I do not even have a license. I've lived only in very large cities, and cannot imagine living otherwise. That said, what I think Mr Nerd discounts somewhat about home ownership is its intersection with the desire to design and personalize your living and entertaining quarters far beyond what is possible in a rental property through structural alterations. Similarly, with respect to having yard (or just outdoor space of any variety), the value of gardening and yardwork as a genuinely relaxing and meditative pursuit in its own right should get a little more credit. But this is a matter of personal preference, and I realize many people see yard maintenance as a burden.
Renting in a metropolis and owning something more rural allows for both options to be pursued
Agreed. Planting veggies in four good-sized raised beds -and weeding them regularly, is very relaxing. Plus, the taste of the tomatoes, carrots, sweet onions, etc. is an added healthy bonus.
Yeah, I know, there’s sickos out there that enjoy yard work. There’s probably also sickos out there that enjoy cleaning toilets. I don’t enjoy either. But whatever floats your boat.
Another option, at least in my city, it's very easy to get a garden plot in a community garden. Then you can already have the space cultivated, fenced, etc. I do like the live urban have a cheap rural property for the getaways concept though too, if you can make it work.
I appreciate you making this video. Mr. Money Mustache was the one who got me to buy a bike and it changed my whole perspective on life. That was 8 years ago. I significantly reduced using my car and then sold it 2 years ago. I can't even begin to say freeing not owning a car is. No more payments, no more insurance. When I need a car I rent or ask someone for a ride. I actually hit my fire number sooner than I expected, but now I'm planning on moving out of a cheap red state because of the crazy hateful politics so my expenses are about to dramatically increase. But it is worth it.
Also I agree with the not retiring part of this movement. I just want the freedom. Freedom to work on what ever I want. I get to be grad student working on exciting open source projects which I wouldn't if I was in the "proper" work force.
This is my exact story as well. Right before switching to a bicycle, I owned a sportscar and THREE motorcycles. Now my spouse and I have one car and I bike to work everyday.
We share a similar philosophy on driving and home ownership as luxury expenses. But I tend to value the benefits of quietude and nature, and that means I see the conveniences of living in a large city as another form of luxury to balance against the constant noise and concrete. Maybe once cars become rarities it will be different, but probably not in my lifetime.
It was about 15 years ago in my 20s that my car broke down and I just wasn't making the money necessary to pay to fix it. Up to this point I had done everything in my power to keep my car running because it was you know... all I had in my sprawly south Florida region to get around. You NEED a car right? Right?
Thankfully I was already doing freelance stuff online quite a bit, so I leaned into that more (still didn't make a lot of money, but it meant I didn't have to commute 30 mins to work). And I checked out the map and found... actually... everything I needed was actually technically in walking distance. Don't get me wrong, some people would scoff at the distances... heck at the time I did! But I had to walk and when you need groceries and the sort, walking was the only option (the delivery services of today didn't exist, some grocery stores offered it, but it was so niche at the time I wouldn't have known to attempt it).
And honestly... I liked it! Sure weather impacted it, but you know, I just had to schedule my shopping around the weather. I even got myself one of those "granny baskets" on wheels to carry the groceries home when I did a big purchase. But really I got into a habit of buying what I needed and just shopping more frequently. My vegetable intake went up actually because I was buying and eating them within 2 days anyways with the frequency of my shopping.
I did end up getting a car again when I reentered an office job. But I bought a little Toyota Yaris for 11K at the time brand new (I swear... they really need to bring the Yaris back). I got married and my wife found it weird how little I drove. I drove to work, that was it. Then we moved across the country (we had enough of Florida). So we're now in the northeast and I gave my Yaris to my brother back in Florida, and we got my wife a Subaru.
We're now a 1 car house. My wife needs it to get to the office downtown.
But I'm at home out here in the woods and I get by walking. There's a little 7-eleven with a grinder shop next door a little less than a mile from my house. There's a small new england town center a little further than that. And a grocery store a brisk bike ride from there (3-4 miles?). Honestly... it's not the distance, it's the HILL I live on that makes the bike ride to the grocery rough. But still... it's NOT bad.
My wife was VERY skeptical of it. She did not believe me when I told her I would make it work when we had just 1 car. She assumed within weeks I'd be chomping at the bit to buy a 2nd car. But here we are 5 years later still a 1 car house in the woods and honestly I prefer it. This is how I get my exorcise! My brother actually moved up here to too (he's now my neighbor) and I'll be walking to the store and he'll drive by me going to the same store. Then in the store he'll go on about how he needs to hit the gym because of his gut.
"I told you I was going to the store, you could have walked with me?"
He'll just laugh, buy his monster energy drink, and get back in his car and drive home.
Thing is... if you told 20 year old me that 40 year old me wouldn't have his own car and would walk/bicycle everywhere. I'd laugh in your face. Me? I literally grew up in a truck driver family that hauled cars! Cars were my life! Don't get me wrong a lot changed before I hit 21 (a lot of my family died and the truck driving went with it). But like I had that mentality that cars were a given. But then I got in a financial situation that forced my hand and I quickly learned... I don't need a car. I mean sure, I need a vehicle on occasion. I need to do a run to the lumber store or go to a show like I did last night. But I can rent a truck or a taxi/uber in those rare occasions and pay FAR LESS than maintaining a car/insurance/fuel.
It's SO expensive. It's hundreds of dollars a month. But like... I used to smoke too. 3 packs a day! And you could tell me how much I blew on butts and I wouldn't bat an eye. It's not "that" much... so what... then I quit (for other reasons... 15 year old me said if I ever made it to 25 I'd quit... so when I woke up 28 one day I was like 'welp, I made it' and quit). After I quit... yeah, that money became obvious!
Cars are different than smoking since their utility is a thing where as butts have no real utility outside of giving you cancer. But the financial point still stands. While you smoke, and while you drive everywhere, you can't imagine a world where you didn't smoke/drive. So telling me I'd save 500+ dollars a month (if not more) cutting just one of them out would have made me laugh. So I get it that it makes others laugh.
But it's true guys. Even in an unwalkable suburban south Florida, or rural New England... you can actually walk!
Anyways, I'm off to grab a grinder and a mtn dizzle.
quality comment, thanks for sharing a window in your life, it sounds like you've got an awesome set-up!
If you ever need help getting up that hill, when you’re older, just get an E bike
what a lovely story, very much enjoyed reading that. and yea i grew up in LA walking everywhere and taking the bus, and then when i became an adult it was like i "had to" have a car. it's wild how it rewires your perspective on distances and time and travel and all that.
Appreciate your thoughts sir. Thank you.
(Aside: My wife and I took a recent train adventure during discount-weekend-pricing and it was such a welcome difference from riding in our regular wheeled-metal-coffin that we can't wait for the next "cheap" adventure. Keep inspiring us to do better CityNerd.)
Trains are so civilized
Cheesecake Factory sightings start at 7:08 for anyone that only watches these videos to count the number of CF logos. I'm so into it.
I went inside the cheesecake factory for the first time in my life in Florida and I saw how huge the cheesecake slices were as far as I knew there’s no chance for a smaller slice and I don’t need that many calories so I admired the inside and then I walked out. 🍰❌
I live car-free in Baltimore; it's great. There's plenty to do here as well as on the Northeast Corridor. The yard is small enough that I enjoy working on it; any larger and it would bother me. Had never planned on owning but the rent vs. own economics worked out when I moved here. It's nice that the job can go away and I don't immediately have to worry about replacing the income since the expenses are way down with not being tethered to a car payment.
My wife and I paired back from two cars to one about 1.5 years ago. She works about 8 miles away two days a week without viable public transportation, so we still need the one car. I mainly bike to work at this point but drive a couple days per week if I have multiple meetings around town that I can't get to by bike or the weather's terrible. No car payment at least and it's a 9-year-old car so depreciation is modest at this point. Still dreaming of that car-free living; someday!
This one hit really close to home. My wife and I discovered the FIRE movement last year and it has completely changed our perspective on life. Since then we got rid of two expensive cars, bought an used and older, but reliable car and moved from the suburbs into the city. Even though rent costs more here the decrease in cost of transportation has more than made up for it. We are both closer to work and are able to live a much healthier and happier life with the abundance of time we have now. I cannot emphasize enough how understanding personal finance can change your life. Really happy to see you talking about this.
In my experience, cities are too expensive even with a car free lifestyle. Medium density or even rural areas can be more affordable, but only if you can minimize the commute (carpool?) and other transportation expenses.
There's plenty of cheap cities. Also, rural areas don't have many rentals available so it drives up demand
the cheap cities aren't where the jobs in my industry are, though
Disagree. I have family members with below median local incomes doing this right now in Denver, SF, and Philly. Most have one older car, one has no car. It's not high living, but it is definitely possible.
Really depends on what kind of income you get from a job that is in a city vs the jobs you can get outside of the city, how close you live to your job, and what everything actually costs. Every time I've moved I compared housing + commuting from outside of the city vs from inside the city, to my office located within said city, and the costs usually were about the same or cheaper to stay in the city. Plus the added benefit of not having to drive! This was in San Francisco, notorious for being HCOLA.
Definitely a big draw of the "undervalued cities" segments is planning out where I could move for a coasting early retirement. I really would like to be able to take the time to work on creative projects with the expectation that it's okay if I fail, because my costs are low enough to quickly recover/take a part time job for a bit if needed.
I've never owned a car, much less worried about the depreciation and the insurance and all that extra stuff. All that stuff is foreign; living in New York City, the only transportation costs I think are about whether I should be getting the weekly MetroCard unlimited right away or just doing OMNY pay-per-ride until it becomes an unlimited, and the occasional gas when going on a road trip with friends. It all seems like a bunch of extra expenses, with not much difference in use of time, and any advantage of driving being very marginal.
And now that OMNY is weekly pay maximum by default, just go for that!
Some of us drive used paid-for cars and arent spending the 1000K a month city fetishists love to pretend we are.
Im 18 and would like to now own a car as well as I have in the past and I dislike it and I enjoy biking and public transport instead. I noticed you say you live in NYC, although I’d love to live in nyc I’m afraid at my age and how much I make I wouldn’t be able to do that, any other city’s you’d recommend for not owning a car?
I live in a town that was designed as a suburb but it has everything I need, including medical facilities, concert halls, university, even a casino (don't need that). Pretty easy to walk or bike. Some bus service, and train to the surrounding area. Hospital is next town over, so I think this could be pretty close to "city living" except I own a house and garage and carS. There are plenty of condos and apartments I could be in as well. What we'd miss is all the time and money we spend on the garden.
Recently sold 1 of our 2 cars, and have been living a mostly walkable life in a small town. I do often long to live in a more urban place, but realistically, I can walk or bike to most of my daily needs, including work. It is a very freeing experience. I wake up every day grateful for my lifestyle. I wish more people could live like this.
Where do you live
the buses in my city are free, so ive been trying to take them more whenever i can! even if it adds 20 minutes or so to my commute, its a fair trade off to the anxiety that i get while driving and the little bit of gas im saving lol
There's a lot to be said for that anxiety and stress. I bike commute 100% but sometimes end up driving to family activities on the weekends. After a while, I ask my wife to take over. She handles the stress better.
Mr. Money Mustache featured on City Nerd is like when the Harlem Globetrotters showed up on Scooby-Doo.
I never owned a car at all during the 20 years I lived in Seattle and Ann Arbor, MI. It wasn't always easy, but it was definitely much cheaper than driving. I live in Albuquerque now (same as you) but, unlike you, I just couldn't swing the car-free living anymore. I perhaps made a bit of a financial mistake in buying here as, even though I locked in a much-less-than-Seattle-rent-prices mortgage, I now have car expenses... but I'm still living well within my means and both purchases have yielded dividends in mental health. I don't have a wife or kids, so... caring for and maintaining a house and car kind of fill a void, in a weird way. Besides which, without a car I felt *very* isolated here and it was taking a huge toll. And taking trips I wouldn't otherwise take is sort of a goal when you're new somewhere!
I wrote this for two reasons: 1) despite everything I just said, I appreciate the reminder to really do the hard math - both financial and emotional - when the used car I bought reaches the end of its life and 2) If you watched the video and the idea of living car free is overwhelming because you're not ready to do that hard math or, if in your circumstance, the math is *really* hard - it's ok. Doing the best you can with what you have now is ok.
When I moved to the city centre, I wanted to go car free. Unfortunately there are some areas of my city completely inaccessible by public transport and I have friends and family living there, so I had to keep the car. To encourage myself to drive less I purposefully passed on a parking spot in my building's basement but instead parked the car in a building a short walk away. This has worked really well, because if I'm already walking to drive somewhere, I may as well walk all the way, or walk to the bus station instead.
Living in a city where I can bike to take care of every day life needs has been a game changer. I thought I'd hate it but I really love it. I even bike just for fun now
Financial freedom is more accessible in the city
100k of tqqq or upro ETF produced enough capital gains annually over the last decade to cover all food and housing costs and an unlimited bus pass yearly.❤
I’ve lived without a car in London and didn’t ever need one. In Boston I did miss having a car with its terrible public transport. Also, if you have small children, having a car and a backyard are nice to have
Kudos to you Ray! I FIRE'd 2 years ago and have never been happier. I get to wake up without an alarm clock. I can take monthlong trips and spend time and energy doing what I love with the people I love. Every day is Saturday. Some people get anxious looking at an empty calendar, but to me there is no freedom like time freedom. Best of luck on your journey!
I live in a rural setting and my stepfather's business used to take him into a lot of houses. He noted that most of the large McMansions in the area were owned by people who had almost no money left over after paying their mortgage. There are a lot of large 4,000 ft² houses with almost no furniture and no wall hangings or treatments because they cannot afford furniture or decorations.
That's called being housepoor, and it's why single family houses were a mistake. The property tax, utilities (the construction quality is so shabby they're horribly inefficient, and thus the utility bills are a second mortgage), insurance, maintenance/repairs, etc will bankrupt you if the mortgage doesn't. People never consider this. I have no idea how anyone could comfortably afford these waste boxes. In the same area the electric cost for an apartment could be $80 a month and the cost for a sfh might be $800. All that dead space still has to get heated and cooled. We need to stop building only luxury housing and start building affordable.
The spending is outrageous here on Long Island. And everyone wants their house to be high in price then wonder why taxes get higher. Housing is a terrible investment!
Between maintenance, property taxes, and the rising cost of insurance, people really need to take a hard look at whether owning a house is right for them.
Mathematics rather lacking. Tax is levied based on a rate. House climbs in value, pay more tax
The buying vs renting debate starts with the assumption that you pay more to own that to rent and that is no longer the case for the majority of ordinary Americans
It's funny how Citynerd & I have come at life from completely different angles yet have arrived at the same conclusion. While he lead the conventional life, I lead a free-spirited, adventurous bohemian (and often broke!) one. Now I live car-free and minimalistic in LA. Not having a car can be a pain here but I'm richer with regards to my bank account, less stress and more time. And there's nothing more important in life to me than time.
I usually love your videos, but every video on lifestyle you have doesn't say anything about kids, school districts, or what happens when you and your spouse work in different cities. I believe these are quite common concerns for most people, and I find it hard to buy into car-less city living without addressing these.
Sold my car and moved to the city. Feels nice not getting hit with a random $500 maintenance issue twice a year. Not to mention having to worry about where to fit a refuel into my weekday. Last thing I'd want to do after getting off work.
2:11 "Retire Early" is about having the OPTION to retire early - you can retire if you WANT to
Yeah, or go part time.
I think my problem is worse than many other people. I love cities and urbanism, but I also love cars. I've loved cars and racing since I was a kid growing up in Eastern Europe and dreaming about driving a cool American,Japanese or German car. So my goal is to have a nice car and maybe multiple. Cars are not just a mode of transportation for me but a source of joy as well. At the same time, I hate the suburban NA lifestyle. I moved to Canada a few years ago after 30+ years of living in Europe. And I don't really like driving for my daily needs and sitting in traffic and looking for parking. I walk everywhere and take transit. The problem is that walkable cities here are freaking expensive, and then if you add the cost of car ownership in a dense city on top of that, it becomes quite a challenge to not go bankrupt.
My husband and I just moved from Rochester, NH (where we had 2 cars) to Davis, CA (where we have no car). Life is infinitely saner, healthier and more relaxed now. And yes, our mustaches are very bushy. Great video!
I retired early at 54. Sold everything including my house in WA state and now I travel around the world taking advantage of savings accounts in US dollars which makes living in places such as Japan an incredible cost savings. It has totally changed my life for the better.
When I lived in Seattle, I parked my car for 2 years without paying insurance to bike and use busses as my modes of transit. If I needed a car for a large grocery haul or to go to a far suburb, I would just get a Zipcar. Saved so much money that way!
I’m curious, what is the Zipcar please?
I'm in Vancouver, and the car share options of Modo (cars that have to be returned to the place you got them, but are far cheaper for 2 or 3 hour shopping trips) and Evo (cars for one-way trips you that can pick up and leave anywhere in the city, but charge you by the minute) are a really useful adjunct to my normal bike/walk/transit life. It's all about options.
@@enjoystraveling I'm not sure if it's still around since I moved to the car-dependent Midwest more than a decade ago, but it's similar to the second option that the other comment here mentioned; it's a car share option when you rent a car by the hour (it started at $7.5/hr when I lived there) that you can pickup from nearby and drop off at other locations around the city. It was very convenient because they had cars within a 5 minute walk anywhere in Seattle and at $7.5/hr ($30/day), it was reasonably priced at the time!
Genuine question:
I love cars as a hobby and I have several. I don't drive very much, and I know that the money I spend on them could significantly accelerate my path to FIRE. On the other hand, 1) I generally love my job and line of work; 2) I would want to play with cars in "retirement" anyway, especially since driving is somewhat physically demanding (difficult entry, joint pains, attention, reflexes, etc.), so I know my time to enjoy them is limited; and 3) I'm maximizing my savings as much as comfortably possible. (I also work remotely and live in a highly walkable neighborhood, with grocers, big box stores, post office, clinics, restaurants, banks, etc. all within 1 or 2 miles.)
I guess there isn't a right or wrong answer per se, but I've been aiming to maintain a steady-state lifestyle of minimal work stress, maximal savings, and optimal life enjoyment, as opposed to a specific dollar amount and year to retire "early." Am I doing it right? People say "do what makes you happy," but it nonetheless feels like I have to constantly justify my choices whenever the subject comes up.
EDIT: Also speaking to 2-car households, the only time we've ever _NEEDED_ two cars were for big services (for which a car would stay at the shop for multiple days) or for driving activities (cruising, meets, etc.). I definitely see and treat driving as leisure activities, and I think most households should optimally own 1 or fewer cars.
I love personal finace and urbanism! This video is perfect
I moved from Palm Springs to San Diego (Bankers Hill) in 2022. I got rid of my car. My rent increased from $1200/month to $2000/month, but with the money I save from not having a car payment, insurance premiums, and all the rest, it was completely doable. I have an e-bike, and my apartment building is on a street with a physically-separated bike lane. Two bus lines run up and down the street at 15-minute intervals, and there's a third bus line three blocks away.
Sadly, most people who live around here continue to own cars, and will drive 10 blocks to get to one of the nearby grocery stores or - my favorite - to the "spinning studio" - you know, so they can get some cardio exercise. 🙄
Living a car-free minimalist lifestyle in the city is an underrated life hack
What cities?
@@BrysonBuildsfor me it's Seattle
Moving to the city helped me escape crushing poverty. I was never able to afford a car with under 200,000 miles on it. They would break and wipe out my savings but in the suburbs i needed a car to work. Here in NYC with publ8c tranist and higher wages helped me escape that trap. Yes a box of cerial is double here but im still much better off.
Love this video. It’s certainly more challenging with kids, in the car-brained Midwest, but the wife and I are weaning ourselves off of cars. Home ownership is another matter, we’ve already made a good chunk from buying a “worst house in a good neighborhood” and doing a bunch of renovations, and it’s easier to not have to search for rentals if you have dogs. But every time I see a massive, $70k truck, I see an idiot who is wasting their money.
Excellent video, great to hear your take on such an interesting topic. I've gradually made lifestyle changes over the past 8 years to have more freedom with how I spend my time. A big part of that change has been ditching the car. At one point in my life, I bought a used Subaru for $11K and put 80K miles on it in 5 years. Including a monster year of 30K miles when I lived in Chandler, AZ and commuted by car alone every day to work in Casa Grande.
Then I suffered a traumatic injury when I was hit by a car while riding my bike and that experience kicked off a number of changes in my life and took me down a path of figuring out how to escape a potential lifetime filled with work, debt and driving (my cat was also fatally hit by a car around the same time so I very quickly developed a hatred for cars). When I moved to a new town, which was still 30 miles from my work, I joined a local vanpool for the commute. We had a bike rack installed on the van so I could bike one-way when the weather was nice. I was able to dramatically reduce how often I drove...my car mostly sat in the garage and to get to the grocery store or downtown, I'd walk or take the bus. People thought that was weird.
Then I moved to London, sold all of my stuff, including the car, and lived car-free for 5 years. In London, really makes no sense to have a car so this was a relatively easy change. I've since moved to a rural town in France in the Pyrenees. We have a train station which connects to the nearest city and the town is small enough that you can walk end-to-end within an hour. I still have no car, and when we do find the need for one, we just rent. I'm sure I've saved thousands and thousands of dollars living car free, not to mention the mental benefits of never having to worry or think about maintaining the car.
I think most people underestimate how quickly they can adapt to a car-free or car-minimized lifestyle. It really does change the way you live and I've found I really like the constraints it puts on your life...simplifies how you make decisions of where to go and how to spend your time. If something is important enough, you'll walk or cycle or take a bus or carpool to get there. And the rest probably wasn't important enough to drive to anyways! I hope more people will try giving up or reducing their car usage, I bet they'll end up liking all the benefits it brings.
One of the most beautiful feelings in life is being able to afford everything you need in life. I have tasted what it means to be b r o ke and I can tell it’s not something you wish for anyone. Thanks to Larysa Caba, I don’t have to experience that kind of life anymore. I’m grateful and I will always be.
I feel one Of the greatest challenges that we first timers face in the ma rket is that we end up losing all we have,making it difficult to find ourselves back to our feet. My biggest advice is to always seek the services of a professional just like I did when I ventured into it for the first time. Big thanks to Larysa Caba. I now make huge profits by weekly through her services while still learning to stand on my own.
I think she trades for everyone I meet. I met her twice at a meeting in Germany and after her lectures from Ella I had to personally ask her to be my financial advisor. she is definitely good.
I have never seen a trader as open and transparent as Larysa Caba with her clients. The way she decides to make a profit for her clients. she allows you to express your fears and she still rests your fears and that is my respect. I don't normally comment on videos, but this word should be included. she is really cool.
I just looked up her name online. she is licensed with credible certificates and has an amazing track record. Thank you for the message.
I will like to knw mre
I have been car free since 2019 and it has made my life so much easier. I see cars as archaic now as the future I long for is frequent and useful public transit. In my Montreal suburb it is only half frequent and partially useful but I can easily make do without car ownership.
Australian cities episode teasers? I am so ready
What you call 'yard work' is enjoyable and essential leisure time for some people and many credit it with vast improvements to their mental health. Don't forget to avoid sounding dismissive yourself when challenging the status quo and trying to point people to your own vision; you might find it harder to win people over.
Albuquerque spotted @ 00:15
My grandmother was hospitalized at Presbyterian for four days. I was looking at that intersection from the parking garage everyday.
Albuquerque is such a great city in my opinion.
@@jshowao I’m moving there from OKC in 2026. It was either that or Denver to stay driving distance to family. Can’t wait.
@@marshallsaltzman9924 You will love it and they've updated the public transit since I was last there (2012). The uptown and downtown are both nice and walkable. Climate is amazing. A lot of neat museums to visit near the base. Mexican food is great.
Most of the buildings are pretty small (max 2-3 stories) so it's not as claustrophobic as bigger cities. You have to be careful about your water use though.
I live at 308 Negra arroyo lane Albuquerque New Mexico
Sadly, it would take about 3 hours to get to my parents' house via public transit, but only an hour and 15 min to get there by car. I live in the "dense" northeast corridor.
Honestly Mr Money Mustache turned me off to bike commuting when I first read his article about it. I remember him being pretty dismissive of the concerns of people who live outside bike-friendly Colorado when pressed.
Years later, I'm back to biking, after moving to a non-sprawling suburb that's close to my hometown. I'm working my way up to running more and more errands on a bike, as well as biking in all weather (I'm in the Midwest). It's much more approachable for me to consider going "car-lite" instead of "car-free".
Btw I personally hate yard work too but my partner actually loves owning a house that he can work on and personalize, so it's not always up to the individual lol
This is so true. I live in Suburban San Antonio and just spent a few weeks in Mexico City. I didn't even take public transport there...I walked everywhere I needed to go. My airbnb was a large studio apartment; my home in SATX is a 1500 sq ft home. I felt cozier and just fine in the studio. I quicly developed a sense of community by seeing the same faces every morning at the different shops I would frequent to get my coffee or breakfast, even with a slight language barrier (my Spanish is poco haha). But even when I go to the ONE pedestrian-district in San Antonio (the Pearl), the difference in energy I feel is palpable. It feels nice. And the savings in ditching the car or lowering that gasoline bill is a plus too.
Obscure secret: mattresses are a scam too. The best thing you can do for your back and wallet is the floor
Thank you, I like your thoughts. I agree about cars and living in the city since I lived in a village with a car.
I had this standard dream in my mind (maybe the impact of movies and media) of a house with a small garden and a car.
And while such a setup might be nice for a short summer vacation, in real life I did use my car for everything and got way too sedentary. Never got fat but still I could clearly see the results on my health. Before, I lived in a city without a car and walked a lot. I realized also that I do not really enjoy taking a walk in a village or in nature as much as in a city. It can feel a bit dull and lonely and sometimes scary in a village or in nature, for a woman at least.
I sold my car and now live again in a city, I think it is making me more happy than the idealized home in the suburbs
I don’t understand your point about the opportunity cost of owning a house. You said the S&P 500 has outperformed housing price increases. Sure. But it’s not like the absence of a mortgage opens all that money up for investing. Figure out the true cost of ownership (mortgage, HOA, maintenance, closing costs, etc.) and compare that to rent. Since your mortgage is fixed (insurance, maintenance, etc. can go up) and rent has done nothing but skyrocket in my town over the past few years, I’ve gotten to a point where I’d be spending more money monthly if I were still renting.
varies a lot based on location
You also can't ignore leverage. Bank won't just lend you 400 000$ to put into index funds.
@@bionj1980 well yeah, all real estate does, but that doesn’t change the fact the analysis here implied that any money spent on home ownership is money that could have been thrown into other investments, which is wrong. You always have to consider how much you’d spend on renting and consider the deltas. The actual numbers always vary, but the analysis presented here is just wrong.
These situations always depend on the individual's options. Someone who didn't buy a home 10, 20, 30 years ago is not getting the same lower mortgage as the person who has owned their home for 10 years.
There's an opportunity cost to your down payment, and if your down payment is small, you're paying PMI. There are a lot of cases where that opportunity cost is high.
I love your channel and wish you would factor in school district ratings into your calculations. That’s one of the main factors when we were choosing where to live, that and being close to family.
He ignores school ratings. He thinks those ratings are racist. Plus, that lifestyle suits child-free individuals, rather than families with kids.
Love that fresh new video scent!
Great video, but i take issue with the concept that owning your home is for the "investment." I own because I provide myself RENT CONTROL.
Doug Ford ended rent control for new units in Ontario, and i have friends who were forced to move their families because their landlord wanted a 25% increase. Others had to move because the landlord decided to sell the house and the new owners wanted to move in. If it's not a purpose-built rental--and very few family-sized PBRs exist-- you live in constant risk of losing your home to landlord whims.
If NYC can just build housing at the rate it needs it.... it would be very cheap place to live...
Indeed.
Well, developers are doing this unofficially. You know all the ugly giant mcmansions popping up all over Queens and Nassau? They're actually apartments. They're single family homes to the NYC tax bureau, but owners build them specifically to rent out individual rooms.
This drives up property costs even more to the point only not-apartments can afford the tax bill
YIMBY POWER ACTIVATE!!
@@evanfreund5651 haha, unfortunately, i doubt anything happens.
NIMBY is one of those rare beliefs that has bipartisan support (but at least Republicans are anti-rent-control which is the very worst manifestation of this idea)
I don't think there's any limit to induced demand to live in NYC, unfortunately.
Excellent advice.
When I bought a car after a lifetime of not owning one, I couldn’t bring myself to drive to work or to drive five blocks to pick up groceries. I was so accustomed to walking and public transit that I only used it for trips out of town. My car ownership days didn’t last long.
I also own an apartment. Life was simpler when I was renting.
You can live just about anywhere and have financial freedom. The whole key is to live on less than what you make.
One small point on the renting vs. owning issue. In theory, the mortgage will eventually be paid off, while rent never ends.
I need a video that targets the suburban/exurban typical person who somehow is convinced they must live out in the countryside or a forest and cannot be anywhere near a city. Is there any type of medium/small-sized city that somehow almost satisfy both? (I don't need this, I love cities... just hate how this comes up all the time it feels like and I have no response to it)
I'm a US-American, but I've been living abroad since I graduated university. I have a career that pays substantially less that my siblings, but because I've lived in places that were walkable/bikeable and have decent public transit. I have a standard of living that is just as comfortable. The fact that I have never had to buy a car and pay the associated costs is a BIG part of that.
I don't want to spend a lot of time doing yard work per se, but I do prefer to grow my own vegetables rather than buy them at the store. I don't need a massive yard for that, but having a yard is nice. Not even the best 100% organic, farm to market tomato is as good as one that was still on the vine 5 minutes ago in your backyard. The same thing goes for zucchini or cucumbers, or peppers or string beans. While I'm not a vegetarian, I do try very hard to eat a plant heavy diet and go very sparingly on meat and dairy. Having a bounty of fresh vegetables in my backyard that I know are pesticide free and haven't been fertilized with God knows what kind of chemicals definitely makes it easier and tastier to eat in as healthful a way as possible.
On the point of car ownership, I sold my car last year and am very happy with that choice. I am a 15/20 minute drive from the city centre in Melbourne (Australia) and in a bunch of suburbs in this range we have car share schemes (Popcar, GoGet). Cars parked on various streets where whenever you need a car, you can rent by the hour using only an app. $5 per hour, or $44 AUD per day. Do this 2-3 times per month, and would never reach the cost of ownership of a car. Never cannot get a car when I need, and don’t need to deal with registration, insurance, repairs, servicing.
The point of finding excuses to use the car as much as possible is also very true!
One underrated risk in owning a house is overinvesting:
"People BUY bigger houses/apartments than what they rent!"
People buy their property for their estimated maximum needs (e.g.. when you have 2 teenage kids), but end up owning the 150SQM apartment from "your 20ies with no kids" until "retirement home". Despite actually needing a 150SQM apartment for only 10 years.
Even if you pay 2% (guesstimate) less on owned property than you would on rented propperty, if your property is 60% larger than your actually needs, it will still be a vast overpayment. As rentee, you can easily switch apartments, free up the cash, and invest it, with returns.
I'm on my FIRE journey now living in car dependent Columbus for now. Once I "retire" I hope to be running an affordable housing company or non-profit
CN would probably better understand why relatively few people choose the carless urban option if he didn't 'cook the books' quite so much. For one thing, cars don't need to be nearly as expensive as he suggests -- you can spend that much, but you certainly don't have to if you drive a smaller, older, fuel efficient car. And low density SFH life has savings and urban living has costs that he doesn't account for. Taxes are higher in the city. Grocery shopping is harder and more expensive, while restaurants are much more plentiful. Live in the city, and you'll likely be eating out (and ordering out) much more often. You can count that as a benefit, but it's also a way to blow through a LOT of money. If you're raising a family, you may be looking at pricey private school tuition (as big city public school systems in the US tend to be lousy). If you have a house with a basement, you can work out at home -- in the city, you'll likely be paying for a gym membership. And many of the things you can store in your house or garage aren't just superfluous 'stuff' -- they're things that enrich your life (for example, outdoor equipment like skis, snowboards, kayaks, paddleboards, camping gear, etc). Also -- in the city, the constant noise (traffic, construction, neighbors) and light pollution (and also pollution pollution) aren't great for human mental and physical health. The idea of living below your means, saving money, and having time for the things you really care about can be done anywhere -- not only (or even especially) in big cities.
Residential real estate is a hot investment... if you live in the Bay Area or NYC, which the vast majority of us do not. The stories of people who build an ADU on their lot, pay off their mortgage and retire early to travel the world on the passive income are from very, very specific pockets of the country with bonkers housing markets.
Suburban dweller logic:
Living in a city and paying $3,000/month for rent: bad
Living in a suburb and paying $2,000/month for rent + $500 for a car + $200 in insurance + $200 in gas + earning $1,000/month less than in a city: Good
Let's be honest: their hatred for cities is just coded racism.
Lmao as if people in suburbs don’t work in the city, why would they make 1000 less? Stop making things up for a narrative
City dweller logic Living in a city where you rent is 3K + paying for public transportation + higher prices for food + your 2K e-bike + higher crime + having to earn 100K+ a year while living in a shoebox: GOOD
@@WillmobilePlus ....why are you on an urbanist channel then?
@@WakandaleezaRazz On average, suburban residents of the US earn ~$14,000/year less than people living in cities.
I am set up for lighter car use in a college-town center in a populated northeast corridor, adjacent to a larger city that is a cultural and medical hub. I try to group errands and my new career leg lends itself to eventually partly or fully at home online. In a single-level 2BR (larger is office/studio/partial library) age-in-place condo purchased for under $100k, combined monthly costs with FHA mortgage less than a smaller rental, but still have some updates to do. Do not foresee much travel out of region or adjacent, have a few bucket list trips in mind for EU/UK. Looking forward to the advantage of high speed rail between the major cities Boston to DC, for better access to museums and concerts if there is an event of strong interest.
I'm surprised there isn't more crossover between urbanist RUclips and the FIRE movement. I definitely came to the former by way of the latter, and I think both movements speak to people who appreciate efficiency. I came across the FIRE movement and Mr. Money Mustache in early 2018, and my spreadsheet projects I'm now approximately 5 years away from hitting my FIRE number, even in NYC, frequently rated one of the most expensive places to live.
A prerequisite to FIRE is also to be high income. The philosophy is nice, but its difficult to be proselytized to by people who spend more in a year than you make.
@@SomeDudeQC While the FIRE community got saturated with high earners over the last decade, initially it had far more people who earned around average income and just lived very frugal lifestyles to achieve high savings rates. FIRE is obviously inaccessible to a large fraction of the population, but its also not a strictly top 10% thing.
@@SomeDudeQC It's not a prerequisite; it just makes it a lot easier. One of the best things about MMM is that his blog has 1001 ways to spend less money.
@@aozora7 A few things can help normal people achieve at least the FI part outside of high income. One is starting early. Another is the incredible bull run the market has been on in the last fifteen years.
For FIRE to be accessible to normal incomes, it needs to have rising stock prices which requires growth which requires most people stay on the hamster wheel of consumption.
@@gamelord12 I make average money and spend very little. We moved to a more affordable city and chose to live in the cheaper, more central, but more run down area. We have an old beater but mostly bike, walk and bus. We budget every cent, clip coupons and buy very little. I can save about 1k a month. At a 4% real rate of return, I can hopefully expect to retire with 600k at 65.
I deliver pizza and my coworkers think I'm crazy when I tell them I never* drive except for work. I'm putting enough miles on my car as it is. Why would I add even more when no one is paying me to?
*Except moving big stuff. Can't really bring a coffee table home on the bus
Paying for the house you're living in is not really comparable to putting money into the stock market. You need to live somewhere. Money put into rent is just gone. I'd really like to stop immediately dumping 60% of my take-home income into a bottomless money hole, and instead use it to fill a deep but finite money hole that I could empty out into another, different deep but finite money hole in another place.
I vibe with your tone and body language so much... Makes me very attentive to what you have to say.
I am somewhat on the journey towards Fire, but in an old canadian suburb with an old van. We keep our maintanence standards low and get help from family. We have a grocery store 3 minutes away and shop light. Its not an idillic city experience but its good enough given I get to enjoy nature very close to my house, keep to myself while exploring, and enjoying proximity to family. I cant say I am maximizing my time and money perfectly, but as a young father I have to be patient, and look forward to more time later in my daughters life to dedicate to my personal interests. I wish I could convince my wife to live in an apartment, but it wouldnt happen without some real financial hardship to convince her. I have a hard time working my day job remotely, and am praying for a big life event to split me from it at some point, though I dare not quit. Thanks for the content.
Okay, important question that is unrelated to your video. CityNerd, you're going to want to skim past this, but don't okay?
That adorable cat at the end of your video. Was he or she running around or playing just before you filmed that clip? Was something stressful going on? Did you speed up the clip for some reason?
I'm asking because Kitty took 21 breaths in 15 seconds, for a respiratory rate of 84 breaths a minute. That's way too high unless the kitty was out of breath from activity or has an underlying health issue - anything over 30 bpm is concerning, and anything over 40 could be very serious. If this is something you're already aware of and are working with a vet on, feel free to ignore this comment. If Kitty was just chasing the dog or getting the zoomies, then it's probably no big deal. But, if not please get Kitty to the vet, because the sooner you figure out what's going on, the more options you have for dealing with it.