6:30 I think the reason the RNG works this way is because they wanted Time Crystal uses to not reroll things like better level ups or crits. They reused the same RNG system for bond rings so you can't just reload saves and get different rolls and the fact that you can manipulation the RNG for rings by entering maps was an oversight IMO
This, especially since enemy res in Maddening starts to ramp up to a point where one big hit ends up becoming more worth using than two medium hits, just because the Res stat applies heavily twice. However, on Citrinne, she’s going to have that Olwen ring over Mae’s for a long time.
Citrinne is one of my favorite characters I'm glad you took the time to run this build on her. On my frist run I wasn't super impressed with her as a normal sage, but her supports won me over. On my second maddening run now and this dire thunder build has done wonders. The only draw back is that it's a pain to get her SP for skills due to the 1/2 rate of sp gain on bond rings.
About 70% through my second play through and decided to just roll for the Olwen ring. I had at least 30k bond fragments, so it was no big deal to spend over half of that to collect and merge the necessary rings. My Citrinne is now INSANE. She deletes anything on the map. So much fun to use, 10/10 recommend.
This reminds me of three houses 0% which completely threw keeping up with enemy speed out the window and focused on characters that had guranteed ways of doubling like Shamir, Cyril, Sylvain, Seteth, and Ferdinand
Citrinne is one of my fav units to use, she really carried me on maddening with her thunder and thoron pokes on bosses and strong units with 1-2 range. for wolfknights and swords master I've found thoron with the Erika engrave gave me close to 100% hit. thanks for the video though gonna try a Ike thunder erika thoron kit next time I use Citrinne on maddening
Your Anna build sounds a lot like what I did with Lindon, literally just gave him an Elsurge tome with a Corrin engraving and Byleth, doesn't even need to be Elsurge, though it's the only tome with extra Crit to fit Lindon's personal. Do that, and he is a 1-3 range Elsurge crit machine who takes hits and delivers crits in return with Wrath, and Lindon is free compared to Anna.
So far I'm at chapter 18 of my maddening run and Dire Thunder Citrinne has hard carried me more so than any other unit. I also just recently finished all of the divine paralogues which have roided out enemies, reinforcements, and bosses. They felt like a nightmare to do and without her I would have been up shit creek. On top of that, with a little bit of warp and rescue, she helped me wipe out those insufferable snot nosed thieves in Hector and Soren's paralogue before the end of turn 1 lol. I call her mommy now.
Canter+ and Holdout are probably the best skills for her. Haven't tried it yet, but it sounds pretty sane. She can get out of danger pretty easily with Canter+ and Holdout allows her to tank a single enemy just in case. Since she'll be one rounded anyways the lowest tier of Holdout will be more than enough.
@@sleepyinsomniac0507 I don't remember how much the cheapest tier of Holdout costs but it should be doable. Canter I don't care about getting it early game. She should have enough SP to get it by the time you get Sigurd back after chapter 17 right? But yeah, the slow SP gain of a bong ring when compared to an emblem ring really sucks. I think it was a bad decision.
Dire Thunder Citrinne was probably the main reason I was able to take down the 4 Hounds on Chapter 11 Maddening, it did a good chunk of damage to them even if they were super overpowered at that point in the game
But getting Olwen bond ring S with Dire Thunder isn’t easy. I had to create and meld several lesser bond rings before getting S rank ring. Still worth it though.
Citrinne is slept on imo. I'm using her for my Maddening Ironman and am personally running Thoron with Leif refine for very reliable, high damage that never misses. I also equip Corrin on her since those stat bonuses compliment her very well while also enabling a 3-range Draconic Hex/Dreadful Aura spam.
She will realistically have around 31/32 magic by chapter 21+ if you promote her early(like 10mage and 20sage) Dire thunder and +5 thunder tome with Ike engraving it will reach 13Mt making her reach 44/45MTK without any statbuffs which brings her to below one shotting alot of enemies around chapter 21(like 5-15 hp off depending on which ex. the armors at the start is left with 5 hp with 45MTK). Keep in mind this is without any buffs like food/tonic/alear passive/sage passive and each point of magic/flat damage is multiplied by 2. Feeding her spirit dusts makes her clear that threshold much more easier and you can also permanently use her in Arena as you don't need to mind her sp gain much because after getting canter she will be good to go so her levels would probably higher than the one I calced above. Imo she's great in the chapters 9-18/19 where you have limited amount of emblem rings to dock out to your full party and her being able to function well without it is certainly a boon so your other members can gain more SP while leveling so if the trick to get the olwen ring is true then she's definitely a good unit to use early. edit: I feel like the level range i gave her is so low that she should be able to one shot the armors at 10Mage/20Sage/5Sage which is within realistic level range by that point.
Citrine dire thunder was basically one rounding til the end of the game. I did need some extra help from chain attack or Alear/Veyle's personal for some enemies. Her accuracy against most normal enemies by end game was around 85%. That was even after I spent her precious sp on tome precision 3.
My citrine was 1 rounding basically everything up until like chapter 18 or 19 when she started to maybe not 1 round some things but she still was by far the unit that got the most maps in my maddening run.
Just finished my first maddening run today and I can gladly say that Dire Thunder Citrine and Killer Axe Panette were my MVPs during the whole run They simply deleted anyone in one round
If you don't want to be cheap and use Dire Thunder, she works well with a Hit Engraved Thoron w/ Corrin Ring. The added HP is nice because she is quite frail, and since Mystics get Fire Dragon Vein, along with the fact that she can engage and lock down units from far away, debuff them, and also doing a ton of opening damage, she has INSANE utility. I also run Canter on her to ensure her safety even further.
I got up to the chapter where they take all your rings on hard, and decided to start over on maddening lol. This build looks great for it, at the very least I’m looking forward too it. Edit, I was going in blind, and still want the other half to be blind so if they get taken again don’t tell me.
I'd like to recommend another bond ring to give a shot. From Celica's pool, the Mae "great thunder" bond ring is great. 20% boost to any thunder spell, including thoron. That plus vantage is my Anna solo skirmish build. Not sure how it holds up in maddening, I expect not quite as well, but still quite fun if anyone wants to give it a shot.
Enemy res is higher in Maddening, so I’d say Great Thunder outscales Dire Thunder after a bit. I give it to Ivy because her middling magic means that she doesn’t make that good use of double Thunder, and a forged Thoron backed up with flyer Momentum can bust enemies wide open. And no, I don’t use Lyn on her. Her luck is so low that any time she brawls with another unit puts her at risk of getting crit.
@@ThisIsntARUclipsr ohh ivy plus great thunder and momentum has me intrigued. Ivy has never been a powerhouse for me so that extra bit would help, and tbh anna is good without it as well.
I was one of the Citrinne apologists in your tier video, her war crimes of having only MAG/RES growth are forgiven once you give her the one ring. Any mage can run this, but I think all of the proficient magic users have better options than Citrinne does (especially Ivy/Lyn).
I'm pretty certain 10/9 Mage Knight Citrinne just doubles that first Royal Knight you showed. Also if this is 10/9 Sage Citrinne then this is a spirit dusted Sage Citrinne with Alear personal doing 21x2 damage to a Royal knight that has 43 max hp. I think the Olwen Citrinne ring thing is pretty good for dunking on random unpromoteds for the chapter 9-16 stretch but the amount of effort it takes to make a sage Citrinne that ORKO's with Olwen ring could probably just have made her into a stronger unit if you had gone Mage Knight. If I'm putting that many levels and stat boosters on a unit I'd hope they could do more than just deal big damage to one guy on player phase. EDIT: I did the math and Citrinne only needs to get +3 spd between her ring and her inheritance in order to double everything on this map as a 10/9 MK with Elfire. It's really not that hard to repair a low SPD stat.
Just wanted to pop in to say any random number generator has a seed (a starting point) and a table (possible values to generate) in it. This is because you cannot actually produce a random number mathematically. So the devs likely decided to seed from the chapter number or some other in-game value. Most programming languages either have a start seed as the default, or use the system clock as the seed value. The devs may have chosen a start seed for the game that keeps running through a table, though it seems more likely it is a chapter number seed. In theory, system time could have been used instead to induce more variance. As others have pointed out, the system they chose prevents reset abusing to artificially induce lucky runs. That in mind, it does allow you to do things like this or find 100% hit chances to avoid low chance misses. All systems have benefits and drawbacks. I can see why the devs had a hard time making this choice.
I think both Citrinne and Amber are in the same camp; underutilized atm, but have great potential. Amber as a pure STR unit, and Citrinne as a pure MAG unit. For Amber, you can do a Brave weapon with Ike engrave or just go Halberdier. For Citrinne, this Dire Thunder build or strong enough magic to nearly one-round a unit.
I ran a similar build with Lindon. A couple of key differences. First, I had Lindon as mainly a support unit. Reposition and Canter+. Thunder and 4 staffs. Canter+. He would frequently start the match off using Reposition, and if he fell behind and needed to catch up, he could actually just use an Obstruct staff anywhere to get +3 movement. Second Point: His personal skill gives him +20 crit as long as your weapon rank is lower than the opponents. Thunder is D rank, so that pairs nicely. Third point: Lindon is built around never getting attacked. Ever. Given this, he can afford to run an engraving with a seriously detrimental drawback. I went with Eirika's, as I think it's an awful engraving nobody else would want. Dodge -20 is normally a deal breaker, but Lindon appreciates the extra crit +20, and never gets attacked anyway. His crit rate was usually about 40% against enemies, so about a 64% chance of at least one crit while attacking. Fourth point: Canter+ together with Thunder's 3 range makes it so Lindon can end the turn 5 tiles away from his target. This is sufficient to keep him out of danger. Definitely grab Canter+ for Citrinne when you have a chance. That extra safety is really nice. Also, Citrinne does not have "average" speed growth. 30%. Louis, Panette and Goldmary have 25%. Nobody else has lower. Controlling for character class, her base speed makes her just a touch faster than Amber, Bunnet and Jade, but it's effectively tied. Still, I was reasonably happy with my Lindon build, and Citrinne running basically the same thing with power instead of crit seems fine. I think it's almost certainly her best set given her abysmal speed and defense. Grabbing Canter is a must, but Canter+ makes it much safer though, and Lindon has enough SP to grab it immediately, which kept him alive through my entire iron man run. Citrinne would need to be exposed to a bit more danger until then, but there are probably a few things she won't die from being doubled by, so she can take advantage of that, and if you're running a more offensive build, trading thunder off of her now and then should allow her to survive an attack here and there. As far as actually getting Olwen S, I haven't tried the 30 bond rings method. I did however managed to grab it through brute force 3 out of my 4 runs. The 4th run I created about 100 Leif Bond rings, but the others took substantially less. So without RNG manipulation, I'd say it appears to still be viable, if not completely reliable. Or I may have just gotten lucky.
I'm on my Maddening run right now and I have Seadall as Dancer with Lucina + Kanter and Quality Time as skills. So far he is clearly the MVP of my run. As Dancer he's pure support anyway so he has 100% bonded shield as Dancer / Qi Adept. With Lucina's Dual Strike his evasiveness is through the roof if your support level with adjecent allies is high. So even if the enemy has ranged attacks they have a really hard time hitting him if they target him instead of the shielded units. With Kanter he can dance and then move and wait which then activates quality time which again synergizes with his personal skill as well that heals adjacent allies at the start of the Playerphase. On top of all that you get a decent chance at getting chain attaks with nearby attacking teammates. He saved my units so many times from certain death of an onslaught. TLDR: double residual heal + 100% bonded shield while being safe due to high Avoid + dancing + repositioning + chain attacks
Let me highlight the other crazy thing about this build. Its is super low comitment/investment now that there are ways to get the ring quick and easy (relative to what it probably should have been). -Thunder tome itself is in her inventory the moment you get her. So the next chapter you can get this ring right away, drop the dough to make it +3 or even +4, and slap Roy on it. Upgrade it to +4 or +5 when you feel she needs it and use Ike's engrave as a further upgrade because what the hell else are you using Ike/Roy on? -The next best users of this ring is maybe Ivy and probably Lindon whos more of a sidegrade and more work to get going with the crit-memes. Anyone else who can have as good or better Mag is more investment, comes in later, and would likely want to use their Speed stat, like Anna (whos an awesome Bow Knight btw). -She won't have to rely on an Emblem and therefore won't ever have to worry about those few points in the game where you're burdened with passing the rings around until you're filled out again. -The cherry on top is she really doesn't need much skill investment after Canter. So, half SP gains is literally no loss. You will eventually have enough SP later on when she might want a little more power by getting either Mag+2 or Momentum for 1k SP. Absolutely recommend giving Spirit Dust to your Dire Thunder user because if a unit is just so solid at doing one thing only, then it pays out big to make sure they continue to deliver on that one thing. Most importantly, never promote Citrinne, and always give her the boots from the DLC and ALWAYS GET HER THIS RING.
glass cannons are fine with 3 range because you wont ever get hit huge fan on Radiant Bow - Bow Knight Anna with Claude's S tier ring for that +1 bow range, now she has 3 range radiant bow so she never gets hit, higher dex and speed growths to always be 100% accuracy and doubling the enemy, one shots every flier in the game literally true one shot while still killing armoured units with each, and the option for 4 range literal chip damage with a long bow (long bow not good on anna's low strength for damage, but good for getting off damage for situations where radiant bow cannot reach)
You mentioned it'll cost you 3k Bond Fragments to get the Olwen S Bond Ring right after you get Leif. Enter the next story mission immediately, leave, and then roll for 10 rings 3 times. The reason you enter the next mission first is because every Enemy and NPC unit present at the start of a story or Paralogue map cycles your Bond Ring pulls forwards by one ring. I don't remember how many enemy units are on Chapter 9. But if you were to roll Bond Rings for that exact amount + NPC Jade , and then roll those 3k Bond Fragments afterwards, then you would get Olwen S appearing at the same spot. I mention this because there are less than 30 enemies and NPCs total in both Jean's and Anna's Paralogue maps. Both have just over 20 if I remember right. Entering either of those maps and then leaving without fighting is gonna cycle forward through your Bond Ring pulls and get you closer to Olwen S without you spending anything. If you already know beforehand that you're gonna get Olwen after spending 3k Bond Fragments for 30 Bond Rings, then you can enter one of those paralogues to cycle forward about 20 Bond Rings and get Olwen for only 1K Bond Fragments. Or less than that if you pull one at a time instead of 10 at a time. Of course, you would have to hold off on doing those Paralogues as soon as they show up. But it seems that people who intend to raise either Jean or Anna tend to do that anyway so they have access to Master and Second Seals for them.
the set RNG system is because of rewinding, if you rewind it will always result in the same outcome if you do the same thing, got to do something different to change the RNG and the same applies to the bond rings. It is also for random growths as well, cannot level up, get a bad level up and rewind to do something else then level up to change your outcome, you still get the same stat growths for that level up. i think the RNG of bond rings is not consistently random, it just entering and leaving a different maps changes the RNG since i saved scum to get claude's s tier ring and did the same again on another playthrough and did not the get the ring doing the same thing (i did get claude's s tier ring eventually by just changing the rng to favour the outcome i wanted)
Citrinne is a one trick poney but a good one at that. Might consider putting her higher on my tier list. I jokingly called her magic Etie because she is the same poking from afar unit type with high might and shitty speed and defences. Well of course shes even slightly better not considering that build.
I wish SP gain wasn't so restrictive. I'm going to use some DLC SP books on my next run for a gimmick build I wanna try with Lindon on Thunder+5 with Camilla Engrave, Dire Thunder, Wrath, and Resonance+ The idea is his crit passive with low rank weapons, crit and might from Camilla Engrave, and Resonance giving +Dmg while slowly depleting his health to continually increase his crit with Wrath. Ultra gimmick. Extreme cheese. Old Man Investment.
i think the build is s tier as it really makes her a differnt monster. also its not hard to switch her off thunder and give her a light wind tome to prevent doubles. she does not really fall off causein madding mode i find that a lot of units start having trouble doubling but with this build she doesn't. canto makes her even safer to use and if you give her anima focus she can help save units by lowering the targets hit if they live also resonate or magic +x is great on her since she will always double
Looking over my playthrough now, my biggest issue with Citrinne is that she's Thunder locked. It deals a ton of damage and get guaranteed follow up, but I'm much more partial to Anna with Elfire for the +6 mt. Bolganone has +1 wt on Thunder, but let's be fair. Anna won't be hitting 11 bld easily. These spells also have a bit more support, like Lilina S giving them +20% damage or Byleth giving more range than Thunder for 4 turns. I feel the same thing that makes Dire Thunder so powerful is the very thing that keeps it balanced. It's an early game tome with 5 mt and 3 range. That's really good in the early to mid game, but elfire is very good mid game to late.
hold out and vantage could probably work pretty well too so she can take a deathblow and then anything that attacks her afterwards gets 1 rounded before they can damage her, so long as her magic continues to scale well Edit: forgot you only double when initiating combat on player phase. So vantage kinda pointless, but hold out probably helps frustration a good bit so you don't have to rewind every time you do a bad placement
Citrinne starts with 17 magic promoted to sage at level 10 and Anna reclassing as sage at level 10 will be 4 magic below her. Essentially Anna's magic stat needs 40 level ups just to catch up to Citrinne (not until well into post game.) For builds optimizing for 1 attack damage, citrine is actually better. Its kinda like Panette but with magic.
I think Anna is better off abusing Byleth. Byleth gives her +2 tome range if she's a mystic unit, and his ring gives her luck for more money. The luck stacks if you buy Byleth luck skills too. Also, Citrinne has a high base magic stat on top of a high magic growth, so Anna doesn't catch up until much later.
Anna benefits greatly from dlc, I’ve got her as High Priest with capped 59 luck with Byleth and tiki’s luck upgrade. Strap on Soren and take her to skirmishes to get money, she can solo any skirmish
The RNG is the way it is to remove save scumming. In a game with the turn wheel, they didn't want you constantly rewinding to get perfect level ups, or to hit that low% crit on the boss. If the only way past a particular RNG number is to USE that number, your forced to play around whatever result you get. Where they screwed up is in tying the bond ring RNG to something other than bond rings, so you can "use" those numbers without having to spend bond fragments.
@@Garvant_ I straight up refused to roll any more and thought it was so sad that I would never get to use Olwen or Claude… until I learned about the easy way! Thank goodness for that, it’s so fun. And it’s not even necessarily optimal because of the lack of SP if you equip a bond ring instead of an emblem, it’s just really nice utility With DLC emblems this might not be as much of an issue, more SP for all! Camilla’s double Thunder tome could be great for mystical class Citrinne, I think I’ll try it out on her next time
I prioritize Hit+ over Canter since her Dex growth is really bad and you do start to feel that lack of hit into the mid game where enough enemies will have a decent enough avoid stat that she'd be sitting at 80-90% hit rates without any additional hit and this problem only gets worse into the late game. Something else to consider is Celica emblem + Nova. Nova has effectively the same stat spread as Thunder, while costing more to forge up, BUT the Celica ring does provide effectively 7 more attack between giving more Mag stat and Resonance+. You just gotta complete Celica's nuisance of a paralogue to unlock it's full potential.
Dire Citrinne reliably one rounds pretty much everything in chapters 9, 10 and 11 in player phase with few investment. Without dlc emblems you almost always have a need for at least one bond ring and Olwen is the best of them so sage citrinne can always have a use.
So I happened to be right at Chapter 8 on my Maddening run when I found this video and decided to give the method you mentioned a shot. I had only pulled one 10 pull of rings before this run, but I worked! Kinda... I got it in 4 pulls, not 3. Idk if you had just done two 10-pulls before this, which maybe pulled the counter down? Idk, this could just be pure anecdote since I didn't get it in 3 like advertised, but I figured I'd let you know that it did indeed work.
How has the Martial Master Chloe been working for you? It seems like a fun build, but I don't want to mess with my whole team comp if it is not doing well.
Perfect! Thank you all for the responses and insight. I'll definitely try her out as a MM. Also I absolutely love the animations so it's nice to know it is viable.
I had a Dire Thunder Citrinne on my last run and I didn't had problems in the late game. In fact I started using her after chapter 15 and she became good so fast I eventually changed her to a Mage Knight despite having less magic in that class. And still I didn't had problems with her damage output. I don't think changing her to Mage Knight is worth it tho. The dream is to have her with the Eirika's Lunar Brace skill inherited. With that she will OHKO literally everything. But good luck reaching 3K SP (Bond rings gets SP in half the speed, ugg...).
I think the reason they use this persistent rng across save loads is the same reason that the time crystal doesn't reroll rng - they are trying to prevent save load abuse to get favourable outcomes. In this case, they seem to have overlooked the potential for other mechanics to affect the ring rng such as entering and exiting a map for some reason advancing the rng state. Anyway it would be a reasonable system if not for the fact that multiple mechanics affect the same rng seed
yeah, it needed to have its own rng seed pool, and then it wouldn't be able to be save scummed. Overall I really don't like the variability in the bond ring strengths, the rng acquisition, and the ridiculous meld ring costs, and am just pretending the system doesn't exist.
i think it is better just to go thoron citrinne and you have better results because you have a real emblem ring rather than a bond ring and get double the sp gain thunder x2 means x2 res too, where as thoron only goes thru res one time. So if a target has 10 res and you do thunder x2 for 30 magic damage or thoron x1 for 50 magic damage, you do 40 magic damage for both builds. The biggest difference is if a target has 30 res thoron does 20 magic damage still while thunder x2 does 0 magic damage - so you can have citrinne as only a super thoron user and have 4 slots available for staves
+5 Ike engraved Dire Thunder outdamages a Roy engraved +3 Thoron if the enemy Res is 3+ less than Citrinne’s magic. And looking at Citrinne’s Mag growth, the enemy’s not going to have anywhere near enough Res to hit her Mag-3 threshold.
There's a Byleth build for Sages? Damn, all I do is put Byleth on dragon class for big stat boost instruct or on fliers for the goddess dance on water, etc.
@@priestessii like Brady said, they are using Thoron not dire thunder, but also the DLC gives SP books now for some reason So you have an extra 5k SP you can divide among your units in any way you want.
So I think there can be a less expensive way to get bond rings. Basically an RNG roll happens whenever you do the non-emblem Arena and cooking so after every chapter, you can reroll 4 times in a minute or 2 and you can roll maybe 10K worth of rings and then reset? So you never spend more than 10K and every ring I wanted, I always got within 2 chapter or 8 RNG rerolls.
wait until he finds out about the citrine vantage holdout thoron build where you stack as much damage on thoron as possible. People really love one stat characters.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming oh yeah for sure she’s the most readily available unit for it besides Clanne or Céline but Citrinne has the best magic and doesn’t have to reclass
The reason that this strategy is optimal on Citrinne specifically, as opposed to other mages (e.g. Anna, Ivy, etc) is because it uses the gimmick of Dire Thunder to fix the flaw that otherwise makes Citrinne a bad unit: her bad speed. Since those other mages have good speed growths, the gimmick is wasted on them because they will already double naturally. This also allows people to get away with using the otherwise difficult-to-use Roy (and later, Ike)'s engravings to pump out more damage- since with Dire Thunder, the unit's speed is irrelevant, therefore, the increased weight of those engravings is also made irrelevant.
i got lucky with the lilina tier 4 ring(20% to all fire line tombs) and that ring too is doing work in general and the edelgard ring freezes percent based on damage delt, so perhaps a video on all the created rings with good abiltys?
I like Lindon more than Citrinne. His skill gives plus 20 crit always in late game with dire thunder and then put +30 crit emblem. Combine with wrath, hold out, and one or two seraph robes and you will double crit every time.
I really prefer Ivy with the Olwen Plat ring and Dire Thunder. Give her canter plus flying and she's a mobile artillery unit. I got the ring without trying in my first 20 pulls not knowing the trick.
she could kill 1 round swordmasters and wolf knights late in this build. though sometimes requiring alear/other mages around to give her that necessary boost in dmg and hit%. and in which those 2 classes in maddening u have no business doubling.
I can't agree that Citrinne is broken. I may be biased though, as I did not get Dire Thunder as easily as you did. And ultimately Thunder drops off in the end game. I think Anna, Jean, or Celine are better choices overall.
thoron does more than double damage, and doesnt require boring abuse of a system, just forge that instead and use a real emblem ring you can get it from a thunder tome with just 200 iron, 20 steel and 1 silver thoron does 18 mt base, thunder does 5. forging both only adds 5 mt each thoron would end with 23, thunder would end with 20 (factoring in 2 hits). while thunder would be cheaper to get to that point, youd only need to upgrade thoron twice to match it, and thats not even counting the fact that youd be allowed to use an actual emblem ring and get passive mag, dmg bonuses, etc
@@priestessii i didnt say anything about engraves, but even if you add them, you are still just on par. except for the fact that you cannot use say celica or eirika to passively boost your damage because you are stuck with a bong ring. olwen gives 1 magic, 2 spd, and 1 luck, so basically just 1 luck. celica gives up to 5 magic, tome precision and resonance, dire thunder cant compete
@@priestessii celica allows you to double and gain all those effects and more with echo, especially as a mystical unit, while you do not have celica, byleth also gives higher magic, and luck allowing for more hits, also divine pulse, and plus 2 range to thoron, then theres obviously dlc like soren. using a bond ring will also make is so that you effectively only get to earn half the sp, meaning you will lose out on starsphere, mag +, hexes
@@priestessii most of what i mentioned wasnt dlc for that reason, though its not the best way to make a min max argument. while you dont have her for half the game, you have her in the harder bits, and you have others in the down time. imo corrin should never be on a unit that isnt a mystical, fire is just that strong, same with hex, also allows for passive healing from range with quality time. i also like byleth on a mystical for that reason, theres a good amount of mages, why not have a dance to buff them all. ignoring dlc i give citrinne corin and celine byleth. the main issue with dire thunder is that its a good amount of effort for just damage, usually even damage, with 0 other upsides. less sp, less hp (corrin), less accuracy (byleth) less usage out of doubling (celica)
The Olwen bond ring trick you mentioned doesn't work at a code level. You just got really lucky. Your Bond Ring seed is set as soon as you start a New Game, and can't be changed. You can use this to manipulate what bond rings you pull, and if you're willing to put in the work you can get every S rank ring you want for 100 Bond fragments. There are guides out there for this, but yeah. This is why getting Olwen using your method doesn't work. The order of the rings you pull is already set, its just a matter of getting to the specific ring you want.
What I like about it is that while it completely ruins her speed since you want Ike/Roy engravings on her tome you still get basically the Alacrity effect. Even a Longbow Sniper can't hurt you if you kill them before the counterattack. I had her cap magic in chapter 25 and she was able to drop 1 full health bar from the fell dragons near the boss without giving them the chance to strike back. I had a lot of fun with it but I'm definitely gonna explore more of her Emblem ring potential in the future.
@@smarfmart Oh sorry, Alacrity is a skill from Lyn's Emblem ring. If you're fast enough you can make your follow up attack directly after the first one (on initiation). That lets you avoid risking taking unnecessary damage. Realistically it really just turns your Thunder tome into a brave weapon but it works the same way.
i always knew it get too obvious when soren emblem drop and i put soren on her then crossed my mind " if she already has this much mag....what happen if i put ALL spirit dust i get on her ?"
It probably uses a seed number to randomize and the seed number is based off of the next mission instead of something harder to exploit like date and time or something
Would be curious to get your thoughts on the reverse recruitment mod. Starting the game with *spoilers* means you could probably run a lot of fun builds on them considering their different growths from alear
@@IcedCoffeeGaming yep! It inverts them so your starting party includes such characters as Saphir and Lindon (in base classes) and you move around the world and somniel as... the last one! PcTriumph seems to be the most popular tuber covering it. Idk how to mod either yet lol but I'm inclined to learn for this.
2:35 This either gor patched out or is straight up a lie because i just tried it and it didnt happen. Hell just to make sure because i saved before i spent my near 10k bond fragments in it. And nooooo olwen
Thoron was so inconsistent for me on my first playthrough, I'm not even messing with it this time around. With low speed, it makes my mages a waste of a character slot and I wind up using Kagetsu, Panette, and Diamont together instead, (along with tanks), just to stand a chance. I really like Ivy's class, so she keeps dire thunder with +5 Thunder, otherwise there's just no point in using her either, cause she isn't fast enough either, unless I REALLY try.
Ivy is better off with a forged Thoron and a Mae ring. Her magic isn’t exactly that high and enemy Res blocks a lot of Dire Thunder’s damage in Maddening unless you’re Citrinne. That said, if you’re running Dire Thunder on her because of accuracy issues, then that is understandable.
@@ThisIsntARUclipsr Yeah, this game is just smacking me in the face with the unlucky stick, when it comes to Thoron. Hits maybe 1 in 4 times, no matter what I do to it. Have no issues whatsoever with low accuracy weapons once they're upgraded/engraved. It's just Thoron. Gets me killed every time.
im on a maddening run and i do thoron with Mae S ring. she can one shot on counterattack as well and live exactly one hit. It worked well on hard mode but in maddening enemies HP starts outscaling her magic by a bit in Ch 14. Havent given citrinne magic dust and thoron is only +1 so we'll see how it goes. could be high A tier for me is she one shots in the late game somehow
You haven't coded enough if you don't know what a seed number is. If the seed is always the same, the random numbers are always in sequence, the thing that they did is that they change the seed number every time a save is done, so it is still random, but it is exploitable. Changing the seed in every ring pull would have been a better way to implement better randomness in bond ring generation, but in general in CS there is no such a thing as true RNG, anything that looks like it is just changing the RNG seed to make it seem like it is truly random, but it never is.
Bro everybody says class change pandero to sage so I did… boy do I regret not saving before changing his class I’d give this game a solid 1 star just for that outfit, over 15 years of love for the series isn’t saving it
I always ended up using Dire Thunder on Ivy instead. Sure Citrinne (iirc) has slightly higher mag growths, but the flyer + thunder range felt way more useful. Still love a good nuke though
I think ivy is really good without it, but Citrinne is mid without it. If you want to use both and you’re gonna make dire thunder anyways, give ivy an engage ring and use olwen on Citrinne
so question? to get olwen ring, does it still work if you do dlc maps before getting the leif ring in the main story, or does that mess up the programming?
Bond rings are provably not on the same rng seed across different saves. That this "method" worked for several people is coincidence. There are videos on how to manipulate the Olwen ring that actually do work but it will take a lot of resets and a lot of time to get.
Take me down to One Round City where the crits are big and the xp flows plenty!
6:30 I think the reason the RNG works this way is because they wanted Time Crystal uses to not reroll things like better level ups or crits. They reused the same RNG system for bond rings so you can't just reload saves and get different rolls and the fact that you can manipulation the RNG for rings by entering maps was an oversight IMO
The obvious followup to this is Citrinne w/ Mae + Thoron. Vantage and/or Bonded Shield.
This, especially since enemy res in Maddening starts to ramp up to a point where one big hit ends up becoming more worth using than two medium hits, just because the Res stat applies heavily twice. However, on Citrinne, she’s going to have that Olwen ring over Mae’s for a long time.
I used Ike Thoron. Citrinne literally had 0 speed due to the weight.
Getting doubled by Generals doesn’t matter when you get one-shot anyways
Sounds like a good candidate for Hector's Heavy Blow which converts weight into Mt.
Citrinne is one of my favorite characters I'm glad you took the time to run this build on her. On my frist run I wasn't super impressed with her as a normal sage, but her supports won me over. On my second maddening run now and this dire thunder build has done wonders. The only draw back is that it's a pain to get her SP for skills due to the 1/2 rate of sp gain on bond rings.
Well, being able to double at a really safe distance, or the benefits of emblem rings being a toss up is what makes builds likes this worth while.
Pandreo looks kinda sexy in it, not gonna lie
glad it wasn’t just me
Citrinne can also change to Bow Knight in endgame to kill flyers with Radiant Bow +5
About 70% through my second play through and decided to just roll for the Olwen ring. I had at least 30k bond fragments, so it was no big deal to spend over half of that to collect and merge the necessary rings. My Citrinne is now INSANE. She deletes anything on the map. So much fun to use, 10/10 recommend.
This reminds me of three houses 0% which completely threw keeping up with enemy speed out the window and focused on characters that had guranteed ways of doubling like Shamir, Cyril, Sylvain, Seteth, and Ferdinand
That’s just every 3 Houses run though
Citrinne is one of my fav units to use, she really carried me on maddening with her thunder and thoron pokes on bosses and strong units with 1-2 range. for wolfknights and swords master I've found thoron with the Erika engrave gave me close to 100% hit. thanks for the video though gonna try a Ike thunder erika thoron kit next time I use Citrinne on maddening
this seems like it’d be fun to use :) I didn’t want to bother with the ring save scumming, but I’d be down to try it this way
Your Anna build sounds a lot like what I did with Lindon, literally just gave him an Elsurge tome with a Corrin engraving and Byleth, doesn't even need to be Elsurge, though it's the only tome with extra Crit to fit Lindon's personal. Do that, and he is a 1-3 range Elsurge crit machine who takes hits and delivers crits in return with Wrath, and Lindon is free compared to Anna.
Didn't even think about using thyrsus with Elsurge. That's crazy lol
So far I'm at chapter 18 of my maddening run and Dire Thunder Citrinne has hard carried me more so than any other unit. I also just recently finished all of the divine paralogues which have roided out enemies, reinforcements, and bosses. They felt like a nightmare to do and without her I would have been up shit creek. On top of that, with a little bit of warp and rescue, she helped me wipe out those insufferable snot nosed thieves in Hector and Soren's paralogue before the end of turn 1 lol.
I call her mommy now.
Canter+ and Holdout are probably the best skills for her. Haven't tried it yet, but it sounds pretty sane. She can get out of danger pretty easily with Canter+ and Holdout allows her to tank a single enemy just in case. Since she'll be one rounded anyways the lowest tier of Holdout will be more than enough.
getting canter is already hard let alone Holdout, considering her using bond ring which only gives half SP for most of the game
@@sleepyinsomniac0507 I don't remember how much the cheapest tier of Holdout costs but it should be doable. Canter I don't care about getting it early game. She should have enough SP to get it by the time you get Sigurd back after chapter 17 right?
But yeah, the slow SP gain of a bong ring when compared to an emblem ring really sucks. I think it was a bad decision.
I love you videos! Btw, I’d really love to a video about openings. Keep up the high quality content!
Dire Thunder Citrinne was probably the main reason I was able to take down the 4 Hounds on Chapter 11 Maddening, it did a good chunk of damage to them even if they were super overpowered at that point in the game
But getting Olwen bond ring S with Dire Thunder isn’t easy. I had to create and meld several lesser bond rings before getting S rank ring. Still worth it though.
Citrinne is slept on imo. I'm using her for my Maddening Ironman and am personally running Thoron with Leif refine for very reliable, high damage that never misses. I also equip Corrin on her since those stat bonuses compliment her very well while also enabling a 3-range Draconic Hex/Dreadful Aura spam.
She will realistically have around 31/32 magic by chapter 21+ if you promote her early(like 10mage and 20sage) Dire thunder and +5 thunder tome with Ike engraving it will reach 13Mt making her reach 44/45MTK without any statbuffs which brings her to below one shotting alot of enemies around chapter 21(like 5-15 hp off depending on which ex. the armors at the start is left with 5 hp with 45MTK).
Keep in mind this is without any buffs like food/tonic/alear passive/sage passive and each point of magic/flat damage is multiplied by 2. Feeding her spirit dusts makes her clear that threshold much more easier and you can also permanently use her in Arena as you don't need to mind her sp gain much because after getting canter she will be good to go so her levels would probably higher than the one I calced above.
Imo she's great in the chapters 9-18/19 where you have limited amount of emblem rings to dock out to your full party and her being able to function well without it is certainly a boon so your other members can gain more SP while leveling so if the trick to get the olwen ring is true then she's definitely a good unit to use early.
edit: I feel like the level range i gave her is so low that she should be able to one shot the armors at 10Mage/20Sage/5Sage which is within realistic level range by that point.
Citrine dire thunder was basically one rounding til the end of the game. I did need some extra help from chain attack or Alear/Veyle's personal for some enemies.
Her accuracy against most normal enemies by end game was around 85%. That was even after I spent her precious sp on tome precision 3.
My citrine was 1 rounding basically everything up until like chapter 18 or 19 when she started to maybe not 1 round some things but she still was by far the unit that got the most maps in my maddening run.
The world isn't ready for stripper Pandreo, but he's ready
Just finished my first maddening run today and I can gladly say that Dire Thunder Citrine and Killer Axe Panette were my MVPs during the whole run
They simply deleted anyone in one round
The second time i got Leif I went to Byleth’s paralouge, left then created 1 ring to get it lol.
If you don't want to be cheap and use Dire Thunder, she works well with a Hit Engraved Thoron w/ Corrin Ring. The added HP is nice because she is quite frail, and since Mystics get Fire Dragon Vein, along with the fact that she can engage and lock down units from far away, debuff them, and also doing a ton of opening damage, she has INSANE utility. I also run Canter on her to ensure her safety even further.
I got up to the chapter where they take all your rings on hard, and decided to start over on maddening lol. This build looks great for it, at the very least I’m looking forward too it. Edit, I was going in blind, and still want the other half to be blind so if they get taken again don’t tell me.
I'd like to recommend another bond ring to give a shot. From Celica's pool, the Mae "great thunder" bond ring is great. 20% boost to any thunder spell, including thoron. That plus vantage is my Anna solo skirmish build. Not sure how it holds up in maddening, I expect not quite as well, but still quite fun if anyone wants to give it a shot.
Enemy res is higher in Maddening, so I’d say Great Thunder outscales Dire Thunder after a bit. I give it to Ivy because her middling magic means that she doesn’t make that good use of double Thunder, and a forged Thoron backed up with flyer Momentum can bust enemies wide open.
And no, I don’t use Lyn on her. Her luck is so low that any time she brawls with another unit puts her at risk of getting crit.
@@ThisIsntARUclipsr ohh ivy plus great thunder and momentum has me intrigued. Ivy has never been a powerhouse for me so that extra bit would help, and tbh anna is good without it as well.
This is the build I used and given by chapter 16 I was hitting 60+ damage I think it's overall better than fire thunder
I was one of the Citrinne apologists in your tier video, her war crimes of having only MAG/RES growth are forgiven once you give her the one ring. Any mage can run this, but I think all of the proficient magic users have better options than Citrinne does (especially Ivy/Lyn).
Her biggest competition in the role I believe is Lindon for his personal skill giving him crit chance
I'm pretty certain 10/9 Mage Knight Citrinne just doubles that first Royal Knight you showed. Also if this is 10/9 Sage Citrinne then this is a spirit dusted Sage Citrinne with Alear personal doing 21x2 damage to a Royal knight that has 43 max hp.
I think the Olwen Citrinne ring thing is pretty good for dunking on random unpromoteds for the chapter 9-16 stretch but the amount of effort it takes to make a sage Citrinne that ORKO's with Olwen ring could probably just have made her into a stronger unit if you had gone Mage Knight. If I'm putting that many levels and stat boosters on a unit I'd hope they could do more than just deal big damage to one guy on player phase.
EDIT: I did the math and Citrinne only needs to get +3 spd between her ring and her inheritance in order to double everything on this map as a 10/9 MK with Elfire. It's really not that hard to repair a low SPD stat.
What does 10/9 mean? Levels?
@@TJKuro
Level 10 unpromoted, 9 Levels promoted(usually means Level 10 promoted)
@@ThisIsntARUclipsr Promoted from mage 10, leveled to Mage Knight 9. This Sage in the video is a 10/9 sage.
It’s super easy to get this build to have canter before chapter 10 now with the well changes, which makes her even easier to protect.
Just wanted to pop in to say any random number generator has a seed (a starting point) and a table (possible values to generate) in it. This is because you cannot actually produce a random number mathematically. So the devs likely decided to seed from the chapter number or some other in-game value.
Most programming languages either have a start seed as the default, or use the system clock as the seed value. The devs may have chosen a start seed for the game that keeps running through a table, though it seems more likely it is a chapter number seed. In theory, system time could have been used instead to induce more variance.
As others have pointed out, the system they chose prevents reset abusing to artificially induce lucky runs. That in mind, it does allow you to do things like this or find 100% hit chances to avoid low chance misses.
All systems have benefits and drawbacks. I can see why the devs had a hard time making this choice.
I think both Citrinne and Amber are in the same camp; underutilized atm, but have great potential. Amber as a pure STR unit, and Citrinne as a pure MAG unit. For Amber, you can do a Brave weapon with Ike engrave or just go Halberdier. For Citrinne, this Dire Thunder build or strong enough magic to nearly one-round a unit.
I’m glad I found out. I didn’t really wanted to bench her, but she can be average if someone didn’t know how to utilize her.
I ran a similar build with Lindon. A couple of key differences.
First, I had Lindon as mainly a support unit. Reposition and Canter+. Thunder and 4 staffs. Canter+.
He would frequently start the match off using Reposition, and if he fell behind and needed to catch up, he could actually just use an Obstruct staff anywhere to get +3 movement.
Second Point: His personal skill gives him +20 crit as long as your weapon rank is lower than the opponents. Thunder is D rank, so that pairs nicely.
Third point: Lindon is built around never getting attacked. Ever. Given this, he can afford to run an engraving with a seriously detrimental drawback. I went with Eirika's, as I think it's an awful engraving nobody else would want. Dodge -20 is normally a deal breaker, but Lindon appreciates the extra crit +20, and never gets attacked anyway. His crit rate was usually about 40% against enemies, so about a 64% chance of at least one crit while attacking.
Fourth point: Canter+ together with Thunder's 3 range makes it so Lindon can end the turn 5 tiles away from his target. This is sufficient to keep him out of danger.
Definitely grab Canter+ for Citrinne when you have a chance. That extra safety is really nice.
Also, Citrinne does not have "average" speed growth. 30%. Louis, Panette and Goldmary have 25%. Nobody else has lower. Controlling for character class, her base speed makes her just a touch faster than Amber, Bunnet and Jade, but it's effectively tied.
Still, I was reasonably happy with my Lindon build, and Citrinne running basically the same thing with power instead of crit seems fine. I think it's almost certainly her best set given her abysmal speed and defense. Grabbing Canter is a must, but Canter+ makes it much safer though, and Lindon has enough SP to grab it immediately, which kept him alive through my entire iron man run. Citrinne would need to be exposed to a bit more danger until then, but there are probably a few things she won't die from being doubled by, so she can take advantage of that, and if you're running a more offensive build, trading thunder off of her now and then should allow her to survive an attack here and there.
As far as actually getting Olwen S, I haven't tried the 30 bond rings method. I did however managed to grab it through brute force 3 out of my 4 runs. The 4th run I created about 100 Leif Bond rings, but the others took substantially less. So without RNG manipulation, I'd say it appears to still be viable, if not completely reliable. Or I may have just gotten lucky.
If Dire Thunder starts to fall off, pair her with Byleth for Thyrsus + Thoron, and she can carry her weight with utility/staves.
I'm on my Maddening run right now and I have Seadall as Dancer with Lucina + Kanter and Quality Time as skills. So far he is clearly the MVP of my run. As Dancer he's pure support anyway so he has 100% bonded shield as Dancer / Qi Adept. With Lucina's Dual Strike his evasiveness is through the roof if your support level with adjecent allies is high. So even if the enemy has ranged attacks they have a really hard time hitting him if they target him instead of the shielded units. With Kanter he can dance and then move and wait which then activates quality time which again synergizes with his personal skill as well that heals adjacent allies at the start of the Playerphase. On top of all that you get a decent chance at getting chain attaks with nearby attacking teammates. He saved my units so many times from certain death of an onslaught.
TLDR: double residual heal + 100% bonded shield while being safe due to high Avoid + dancing + repositioning + chain attacks
Let me highlight the other crazy thing about this build. Its is super low comitment/investment now that there are ways to get the ring quick and easy (relative to what it probably should have been).
-Thunder tome itself is in her inventory the moment you get her. So the next chapter you can get this ring right away, drop the dough to make it +3 or even +4, and slap Roy on it. Upgrade it to +4 or +5 when you feel she needs it and use Ike's engrave as a further upgrade because what the hell else are you using Ike/Roy on?
-The next best users of this ring is maybe Ivy and probably Lindon whos more of a sidegrade and more work to get going with the crit-memes. Anyone else who can have as good or better Mag is more investment, comes in later, and would likely want to use their Speed stat, like Anna (whos an awesome Bow Knight btw).
-She won't have to rely on an Emblem and therefore won't ever have to worry about those few points in the game where you're burdened with passing the rings around until you're filled out again.
-The cherry on top is she really doesn't need much skill investment after Canter. So, half SP gains is literally no loss. You will eventually have enough SP later on when she might want a little more power by getting either Mag+2 or Momentum for 1k SP.
Absolutely recommend giving Spirit Dust to your Dire Thunder user because if a unit is just so solid at doing one thing only, then it pays out big to make sure they continue to deliver on that one thing.
Most importantly, never promote Citrinne, and always give her the boots from the DLC and ALWAYS GET HER THIS RING.
glass cannons are fine with 3 range because you wont ever get hit
huge fan on Radiant Bow - Bow Knight Anna with Claude's S tier ring for that +1 bow range, now she has 3 range radiant bow so she never gets hit, higher dex and speed growths to always be 100% accuracy and doubling the enemy, one shots every flier in the game literally true one shot while still killing armoured units with each, and the option for 4 range literal chip damage with a long bow (long bow not good on anna's low strength for damage, but good for getting off damage for situations where radiant bow cannot reach)
You mentioned it'll cost you 3k Bond Fragments to get the Olwen S Bond Ring right after you get Leif. Enter the next story mission immediately, leave, and then roll for 10 rings 3 times.
The reason you enter the next mission first is because every Enemy and NPC unit present at the start of a story or Paralogue map cycles your Bond Ring pulls forwards by one ring. I don't remember how many enemy units are on Chapter 9. But if you were to roll Bond Rings for that exact amount + NPC Jade , and then roll those 3k Bond Fragments afterwards, then you would get Olwen S appearing at the same spot.
I mention this because there are less than 30 enemies and NPCs total in both Jean's and Anna's Paralogue maps. Both have just over 20 if I remember right. Entering either of those maps and then leaving without fighting is gonna cycle forward through your Bond Ring pulls and get you closer to Olwen S without you spending anything. If you already know beforehand that you're gonna get Olwen after spending 3k Bond Fragments for 30 Bond Rings, then you can enter one of those paralogues to cycle forward about 20 Bond Rings and get Olwen for only 1K Bond Fragments. Or less than that if you pull one at a time instead of 10 at a time.
Of course, you would have to hold off on doing those Paralogues as soon as they show up. But it seems that people who intend to raise either Jean or Anna tend to do that anyway so they have access to Master and Second Seals for them.
the set RNG system is because of rewinding, if you rewind it will always result in the same outcome if you do the same thing, got to do something different to change the RNG and the same applies to the bond rings. It is also for random growths as well, cannot level up, get a bad level up and rewind to do something else then level up to change your outcome, you still get the same stat growths for that level up.
i think the RNG of bond rings is not consistently random, it just entering and leaving a different maps changes the RNG since i saved scum to get claude's s tier ring and did the same again on another playthrough and did not the get the ring doing the same thing (i did get claude's s tier ring eventually by just changing the rng to favour the outcome i wanted)
Citrinne is a one trick poney but a good one at that. Might consider putting her higher on my tier list.
I jokingly called her magic Etie because she is the same poking from afar unit type with high might and shitty speed and defences.
Well of course shes even slightly better not considering that build.
I wish SP gain wasn't so restrictive. I'm going to use some DLC SP books on my next run for a gimmick build I wanna try with Lindon on Thunder+5 with Camilla Engrave, Dire Thunder, Wrath, and Resonance+
The idea is his crit passive with low rank weapons, crit and might from Camilla Engrave, and Resonance giving +Dmg while slowly depleting his health to continually increase his crit with Wrath. Ultra gimmick. Extreme cheese. Old Man Investment.
i think the build is s tier as it really makes her a differnt monster. also its not hard to switch her off thunder and give her a light wind tome to prevent doubles. she does not really fall off causein madding mode i find that a lot of units start having trouble doubling but with this build she doesn't. canto makes her even safer to use and if you give her anima focus she can help save units by lowering the targets hit if they live also resonate or magic +x is great on her since she will always double
4:35 "[Ivy] looks really good on Sage."
Yeah, uh-huh, sure, I can see why you'd think that. 👀
Looking over my playthrough now, my biggest issue with Citrinne is that she's Thunder locked. It deals a ton of damage and get guaranteed follow up, but I'm much more partial to Anna with Elfire for the +6 mt. Bolganone has +1 wt on Thunder, but let's be fair. Anna won't be hitting 11 bld easily. These spells also have a bit more support, like Lilina S giving them +20% damage or Byleth giving more range than Thunder for 4 turns.
I feel the same thing that makes Dire Thunder so powerful is the very thing that keeps it balanced. It's an early game tome with 5 mt and 3 range. That's really good in the early to mid game, but elfire is very good mid game to late.
the best build for citrine is thoron with momentum and canter (dont give her sigurd's ring) since momentum works best for users that one hit once.
hold out and vantage could probably work pretty well too so she can take a deathblow and then anything that attacks her afterwards gets 1 rounded before they can damage her, so long as her magic continues to scale well
Edit: forgot you only double when initiating combat on player phase. So vantage kinda pointless, but hold out probably helps frustration a good bit so you don't have to rewind every time you do a bad placement
The thing with Anna is that she has the magic stats to kill anything and also DODGE.
Citrinne starts with 17 magic promoted to sage at level 10 and Anna reclassing as sage at level 10 will be 4 magic below her. Essentially Anna's magic stat needs 40 level ups just to catch up to Citrinne (not until well into post game.) For builds optimizing for 1 attack damage, citrine is actually better. Its kinda like Panette but with magic.
I think Anna is better off abusing Byleth. Byleth gives her +2 tome range if she's a mystic unit, and his ring gives her luck for more money. The luck stacks if you buy Byleth luck skills too.
Also, Citrinne has a high base magic stat on top of a high magic growth, so Anna doesn't catch up until much later.
And also maxed mag stats Anna only gets one point where as Citrinne gets plus 3
@@gjfwang Citrine will basically always have more magic, but Anna is better in every other way. Better speed, avoid, durability, and versatility.
Anna benefits greatly from dlc, I’ve got her as High Priest with capped 59 luck with Byleth and tiki’s luck upgrade.
Strap on Soren and take her to skirmishes to get money, she can solo any skirmish
My only concern is the half SP Gain from Bond Rings in a game that is already so stingy with SP.
The RNG is the way it is to remove save scumming. In a game with the turn wheel, they didn't want you constantly rewinding to get perfect level ups, or to hit that low% crit on the boss. If the only way past a particular RNG number is to USE that number, your forced to play around whatever result you get. Where they screwed up is in tying the bond ring RNG to something other than bond rings, so you can "use" those numbers without having to spend bond fragments.
So glad they did the bond rings that way 🙏 so great
@@joeyjose727 ong otherwise rolling for these things would be unbearable
@@Garvant_ I straight up refused to roll any more and thought it was so sad that I would never get to use Olwen or Claude… until I learned about the easy way! Thank goodness for that, it’s so fun. And it’s not even necessarily optimal because of the lack of SP if you equip a bond ring instead of an emblem, it’s just really nice utility
With DLC emblems this might not be as much of an issue, more SP for all! Camilla’s double Thunder tome could be great for mystical class Citrinne, I think I’ll try it out on her next time
I prioritize Hit+ over Canter since her Dex growth is really bad and you do start to feel that lack of hit into the mid game where enough enemies will have a decent enough avoid stat that she'd be sitting at 80-90% hit rates without any additional hit and this problem only gets worse into the late game.
Something else to consider is Celica emblem + Nova. Nova has effectively the same stat spread as Thunder, while costing more to forge up, BUT the Celica ring does provide effectively 7 more attack between giving more Mag stat and Resonance+. You just gotta complete Celica's nuisance of a paralogue to unlock it's full potential.
Dire Citrinne reliably one rounds pretty much everything in chapters 9, 10 and 11 in player phase with few investment. Without dlc emblems you almost always have a need for at least one bond ring and Olwen is the best of them so sage citrinne can always have a use.
I like the femboy sage outfit !
So I happened to be right at Chapter 8 on my Maddening run when I found this video and decided to give the method you mentioned a shot. I had only pulled one 10 pull of rings before this run, but I worked! Kinda... I got it in 4 pulls, not 3. Idk if you had just done two 10-pulls before this, which maybe pulled the counter down? Idk, this could just be pure anecdote since I didn't get it in 3 like advertised, but I figured I'd let you know that it did indeed work.
How has the Martial Master Chloe been working for you? It seems like a fun build, but I don't want to mess with my whole team comp if it is not doing well.
Believe in MM Chloe, you wont be disappointed. She singlehandedly took 3 health bars of the final boss on Maddening, make sure to equip Erika on her
@@priestessii True anyone that can quad with Eirika ring becomes a monster.
Perfect! Thank you all for the responses and insight. I'll definitely try her out as a MM. Also I absolutely love the animations so it's nice to know it is viable.
I had a Dire Thunder Citrinne on my last run and I didn't had problems in the late game. In fact I started using her after chapter 15 and she became good so fast I eventually changed her to a Mage Knight despite having less magic in that class. And still I didn't had problems with her damage output. I don't think changing her to Mage Knight is worth it tho.
The dream is to have her with the Eirika's Lunar Brace skill inherited. With that she will OHKO literally everything. But good luck reaching 3K SP (Bond rings gets SP in half the speed, ugg...).
I think the devs did the right thing to not code it true RNG.
I think the reason they use this persistent rng across save loads is the same reason that the time crystal doesn't reroll rng - they are trying to prevent save load abuse to get favourable outcomes. In this case, they seem to have overlooked the potential for other mechanics to affect the ring rng such as entering and exiting a map for some reason advancing the rng state. Anyway it would be a reasonable system if not for the fact that multiple mechanics affect the same rng seed
Yea, but its silly because you can just get new outcomes after a reroll or save/load by doing actions that use 'rng' in a different order.
yeah, it needed to have its own rng seed pool, and then it wouldn't be able to be save scummed. Overall I really don't like the variability in the bond ring strengths, the rng acquisition, and the ridiculous meld ring costs, and am just pretending the system doesn't exist.
If that 30 ring strat is real, she's definitely better than I had originally given her credit for. I'll have to test it next run.
i think it is better just to go thoron citrinne and you have better results because you have a real emblem ring rather than a bond ring and get double the sp gain
thunder x2 means x2 res too, where as thoron only goes thru res one time. So if a target has 10 res and you do thunder x2 for 30 magic damage or thoron x1 for 50 magic damage, you do 40 magic damage for both builds. The biggest difference is if a target has 30 res thoron does 20 magic damage still while thunder x2 does 0 magic damage - so you can have citrinne as only a super thoron user and have 4 slots available for staves
+5 Ike engraved Dire Thunder outdamages a Roy engraved +3 Thoron if the enemy Res is 3+ less than Citrinne’s magic. And looking at Citrinne’s Mag growth, the enemy’s not going to have anywhere near enough Res to hit her Mag-3 threshold.
There's a Byleth build for Sages?
Damn, all I do is put Byleth on dragon class for big stat boost instruct or on fliers for the goddess dance on water, etc.
I wish we could use bond ring as well as emblems some of these effects are great.
Late game she is nice support with thoron sniping with celica echo and corrin hex
@@priestessii he said late game, and nothing about dire thunder
@@priestessii like Brady said, they are using Thoron not dire thunder, but also the DLC gives SP books now for some reason
So you have an extra 5k SP you can divide among your units in any way you want.
So I think there can be a less expensive way to get bond rings. Basically an RNG roll happens whenever you do the non-emblem Arena and cooking so after every chapter, you can reroll 4 times in a minute or 2 and you can roll maybe 10K worth of rings and then reset? So you never spend more than 10K and every ring I wanted, I always got within 2 chapter or 8 RNG rerolls.
wait until he finds out about the citrine vantage holdout thoron build where you stack as much damage on thoron as possible. People really love one stat characters.
chapter 20 still nuking enemies with this build
She part of my only sage team.. everyone is sage but the main character- sage run
Since anyone can do this including the more optimal Anna I personally don’t see this as Citrinne’s thing specifically
She has high base magic and is decent on it :) but you are correct any mage can do it
@@IcedCoffeeGaming oh yeah for sure she’s the most readily available unit for it besides Clanne or Céline but Citrinne has the best magic and doesn’t have to reclass
The reason that this strategy is optimal on Citrinne specifically, as opposed to other mages (e.g. Anna, Ivy, etc) is because it uses the gimmick of Dire Thunder to fix the flaw that otherwise makes Citrinne a bad unit: her bad speed. Since those other mages have good speed growths, the gimmick is wasted on them because they will already double naturally.
This also allows people to get away with using the otherwise difficult-to-use Roy (and later, Ike)'s engravings to pump out more damage- since with Dire Thunder, the unit's speed is irrelevant, therefore, the increased weight of those engravings is also made irrelevant.
i got lucky with the lilina tier 4 ring(20% to all fire line tombs) and that ring too is doing work in general and the edelgard ring freezes percent based on damage delt, so perhaps a video on all the created rings with good abiltys?
I like Lindon more than Citrinne. His skill gives plus 20 crit always in late game with dire thunder and then put +30 crit emblem. Combine with wrath, hold out, and one or two seraph robes and you will double crit every time.
I really prefer Ivy with the Olwen Plat ring and Dire Thunder. Give her canter plus flying and she's a mobile artillery unit. I got the ring without trying in my first 20 pulls not knowing the trick.
I'll have to try this on my next run now that we maybe have a surefire way to get the ring.
she could kill 1 round swordmasters and wolf knights late in this build. though sometimes requiring alear/other mages around to give her that necessary boost in dmg and hit%. and in which those 2 classes in maddening u have no business doubling.
I can't agree that Citrinne is broken. I may be biased though, as I did not get Dire Thunder as easily as you did. And ultimately Thunder drops off in the end game. I think Anna, Jean, or Celine are better choices overall.
Magic is everything
thoron does more than double damage, and doesnt require boring abuse of a system, just forge that instead and use a real emblem ring
you can get it from a thunder tome with just 200 iron, 20 steel and 1 silver
thoron does 18 mt base, thunder does 5. forging both only adds 5 mt each
thoron would end with 23, thunder would end with 20 (factoring in 2 hits). while thunder would be cheaper to get to that point, youd only need to upgrade thoron twice to match it, and thats not even counting the fact that youd be allowed to use an actual emblem ring and get passive mag, dmg bonuses, etc
@@priestessii i didnt say anything about engraves, but even if you add them, you are still just on par. except for the fact that you cannot use say celica or eirika to passively boost your damage because you are stuck with a bong ring.
olwen gives 1 magic, 2 spd, and 1 luck, so basically just 1 luck.
celica gives up to 5 magic, tome precision and resonance, dire thunder cant compete
You're only looking at base weapon might. Dire thunder scales with twice the users magic, while Thoron only scales at 1x.
@@priestessii celica allows you to double and gain all those effects and more with echo, especially as a mystical unit, while you do not have celica, byleth also gives higher magic, and luck allowing for more hits, also divine pulse, and plus 2 range to thoron, then theres obviously dlc like soren.
using a bond ring will also make is so that you effectively only get to earn half the sp, meaning you will lose out on starsphere, mag +, hexes
@@BookofAeons while not using celica, fair.
@@priestessii most of what i mentioned wasnt dlc for that reason, though its not the best way to make a min max argument.
while you dont have her for half the game, you have her in the harder bits, and you have others in the down time.
imo corrin should never be on a unit that isnt a mystical, fire is just that strong, same with hex, also allows for passive healing from range with quality time.
i also like byleth on a mystical for that reason, theres a good amount of mages, why not have a dance to buff them all.
ignoring dlc i give citrinne corin and celine byleth.
the main issue with dire thunder is that its a good amount of effort for just damage, usually even damage, with 0 other upsides.
less sp, less hp (corrin), less accuracy (byleth) less usage out of doubling (celica)
The Olwen bond ring trick you mentioned doesn't work at a code level. You just got really lucky.
Your Bond Ring seed is set as soon as you start a New Game, and can't be changed. You can use this to manipulate what bond rings you pull, and if you're willing to put in the work you can get every S rank ring you want for 100 Bond fragments.
There are guides out there for this, but yeah. This is why getting Olwen using your method doesn't work.
The order of the rings you pull is already set, its just a matter of getting to the specific ring you want.
What I like about it is that while it completely ruins her speed since you want Ike/Roy engravings on her tome you still get basically the Alacrity effect. Even a Longbow Sniper can't hurt you if you kill them before the counterattack. I had her cap magic in chapter 25 and she was able to drop 1 full health bar from the fell dragons near the boss without giving them the chance to strike back.
I had a lot of fun with it but I'm definitely gonna explore more of her Emblem ring potential in the future.
What gives the alacrity effect? The engraving, the Olwen ring, or something else?
@@smarfmart Oh sorry, Alacrity is a skill from Lyn's Emblem ring. If you're fast enough you can make your follow up attack directly after the first one (on initiation). That lets you avoid risking taking unnecessary damage.
Realistically it really just turns your Thunder tome into a brave weapon but it works the same way.
@@g.n.s.153 that untalkative bunny pfp tho
@@smarfmart Aayyyyy! Happy to find someone who recognizes it!
Bond rings are random, you can get it on craft 1 or 51
i always knew it
get too obvious when soren emblem drop and i put soren on her
then crossed my mind " if she already has this much mag....what happen if i put ALL spirit dust i get on her ?"
Can’t wait to test if it’s 3k bond fragments haven’t been able to test this build out because the “fake” rng never was on my side and I hate resetting
oh you finally got Dire Thunder after fishing that long xD
It probably uses a seed number to randomize and the seed number is based off of the next mission instead of something harder to exploit like date and time or something
Early on it was determined the values are taken from the number of enemy units on a map which shifts the rings that amount.
Are you running the martial master Chloe I’m this run? How’s it doing? Are you running her with Lucina?
the RNG isnt totally random to remove save scumming, becuase it was a rampant issue in past FE games with RNG mechanics.
Would be curious to get your thoughts on the reverse recruitment mod. Starting the game with *spoilers* means you could probably run a lot of fun builds on them considering their different growths from alear
Does this change the order of recruitment? Not sure what it does or how to mod a switch lol
@@IcedCoffeeGaming yep! It inverts them so your starting party includes such characters as Saphir and Lindon (in base classes) and you move around the world and somniel as... the last one! PcTriumph seems to be the most popular tuber covering it. Idk how to mod either yet lol but I'm inclined to learn for this.
This Citrinne build easily carried my early game
2:35 This either gor patched out or is straight up a lie because i just tried it and it didnt happen. Hell just to make sure because i saved before i spent my near 10k bond fragments in it. And nooooo olwen
Thoron was so inconsistent for me on my first playthrough, I'm not even messing with it this time around. With low speed, it makes my mages a waste of a character slot and I wind up using Kagetsu, Panette, and Diamont together instead, (along with tanks), just to stand a chance. I really like Ivy's class, so she keeps dire thunder with +5 Thunder, otherwise there's just no point in using her either, cause she isn't fast enough either, unless I REALLY try.
Ivy is better off with a forged Thoron and a Mae ring. Her magic isn’t exactly that high and enemy Res blocks a lot of Dire Thunder’s damage in Maddening unless you’re Citrinne. That said, if you’re running Dire Thunder on her because of accuracy issues, then that is understandable.
@@ThisIsntARUclipsr Yeah, this game is just smacking me in the face with the unlucky stick, when it comes to Thoron. Hits maybe 1 in 4 times, no matter what I do to it. Have no issues whatsoever with low accuracy weapons once they're upgraded/engraved. It's just Thoron. Gets me killed every time.
Ive made my Citrine with Thoron 5 with the 20% damage ring, then slapp her with canter+ to snipe and run
im on a maddening run and i do thoron with Mae S ring. she can one shot on counterattack as well and live exactly one hit. It worked well on hard mode but in maddening enemies HP starts outscaling her magic by a bit in Ch 14. Havent given citrinne magic dust and thoron is only +1 so we'll see how it goes. could be high A tier for me is she one shots in the late game somehow
pandreo rocks the sage fit wym 😔
I did this but with mae and thoron she literally one shots every single enemies up to around chapter 19 or 20
You haven't coded enough if you don't know what a seed number is. If the seed is always the same, the random numbers are always in sequence, the thing that they did is that they change the seed number every time a save is done, so it is still random, but it is exploitable.
Changing the seed in every ring pull would have been a better way to implement better randomness in bond ring generation, but in general in CS there is no such a thing as true RNG, anything that looks like it is just changing the RNG seed to make it seem like it is truly random, but it never is.
if I go to Anna's paralogue, which has 22 enemy units. Will I get the Olwen S in the next bundle of rings?
Bro everybody says class change pandero to sage so I did… boy do I regret not saving before changing his class
I’d give this game a solid 1 star just for that outfit, over 15 years of love for the series isn’t saving it
Put him on Mage Knight. Horse with a Hat and it is fast
I hate the sage outfit so much. I desperately want them to let me give their default outfits to any class.
I always ended up using Dire Thunder on Ivy instead. Sure Citrinne (iirc) has slightly higher mag growths, but the flyer + thunder range felt way more useful. Still love a good nuke though
I think ivy is really good without it, but Citrinne is mid without it. If you want to use both and you’re gonna make dire thunder anyways, give ivy an engage ring and use olwen on Citrinne
Can confirm dire thunder Ivy is bonkers I’m trying Citrinne on my maddening run tho
is it possible to quad with dire thunder if you had the speed the way brave weapons do ?
so question? to get olwen ring, does it still work if you do dlc maps before getting the leif ring in the main story, or does that mess up the programming?
Bond rings are provably not on the same rng seed across different saves. That this "method" worked for several people is coincidence. There are videos on how to manipulate the Olwen ring that actually do work but it will take a lot of resets and a lot of time to get.