Lovely stuff! I've a bunch of 1541's to repair here and it's something I've never even used before let alone repaired! Picked up a few handy nuggets here. Police knocked on my door and charged me with willful display of incorrect aspect ratio. My case comes up in 6 months. Writing this from my cell where I'm being held on remand. I can tell you that smuggling in a smart phone is not as much fun as it used to be!
Good luck with them. They're almost like fixing a C64 just with some mechanical stuff. As for the charges, well you were warned. But at least you have plenty time to get a smaller smart phone
For me this is very nostalgic. I cam remember back when each of these devices first came out. Reading reviews in magazines, seeing them in ads, and seeing them in person in a variety of stores. It was also the time I was also transitioning to PC's and not wanting to sink anymore $$$ into my Commodore gear. Now that PC gear is pretty much worthless and these devices at least have some value!
Nice work. I unfortunately have a small pile of open drive head units on the floor of the shed. Good for Logic board parts but not much else. You were lucky????? to only have one go open. Most of the time both are.
Yeah, I guess it better to have at least one of the heads working. Now I just need to get lucky and find a working lower head. I don't like my chances 😄
thank you again for this video. the section on open head coils really helped. I have a diagnostic and alignment kit in the mail so in a week I'll have a working disk drive. the coils measure good so it's likely a chip failed if not then it's an alignment issue.
01:10 To be exact you can run CP/M from the supplied disk also from a 1541. However - and that is the restriction to point out - you can't read or write any disks that were formatted in MFM from other (non-C128) computers.
For the 1541, I'm making a SD card solution that plugs into the CPLD/GateArray Commodore custom IC socket and intercepts the head signals just after they become digital. This enables you to use the drive to read disk images or, if the head is still good, as a regular drive. It can be controlled via wifi and a web page accessed via a phone, tablet, PC etc. The CPLD in a 1571 is configured a little different but I may be able to adapt my design. I will have to look into it. From your 1570/1 drives it looks like most of the ICs are not socketed? However, I believe/hope that most 1541s have socketed ICs.
Now that would be cool! Yeah from what I've seen most of the 1570/1571s only have one or two ICs socketed. But I think the most 1541s have the majority of ICs in sockets
Instead of typing the whole load"$",9 rigamarole, just type c-shift-A (short for catalog) and it'll give you a directory listing without overwriting your BASIC program. In your case, "c-shift-A U9". U8,U8,U10 are your drive numbers. This is one of the DOS wedge commands included in BASIC 7 along with CSAVE, CLOAD, et al.
C64 storage control has been stupid and unlogical forever. It should have had auto-detect when a single drive is connected, and for example a way to load a file with a single matching character. Also a proper LS or DIR should have been implemented. The later one has CATALOG, but that is a lot to write.
You may want to store the 1571 with the lever in the closed position (with disk or transport protection inserted), this way the spring of the head assembly will not get bend over time. the 157x also uses an WD1771 chip to read/write MFM disks.
Given these drives are likely pre-1987 it's not surprising to see 220V. Most of Australia has transitioned to 230V but I still regularly see around 245V here
You can make the 1571 with the broken lower head into an Australian 1570 if you plug the spindle motor in backwards! Now wait if you flip the head plugs and remember to put the disks in upside down this might actually work! Except for the write protect notch being on the wrong side. EDIT: IF this works, also install the badge on the front upside down!
@@TheRetroChannel That head with broken lower part could be used to save some 1571's in C128 as the support have tendency to break. I have such drive with broken support and that head would be a salvation for me.
Repairing my own 1571 right now, sadly it has a broken lower head, too. It had rusty components on the board, which I already replaced, and the switching power supply was corroded, too, and was replaced by a meanwell one. But the dead head is a problem I can't repair :( Will try to find a donor drive
Год назад+2
Wonderful. As it was my 1570 (at about 2:31), it seems the missing paint on the "liver" is a common thing ;) ;) the shape of the missing pain even looks like the same as on mine, I can clearly remember that shape.
Just picked up vic 20 myself yesterday. The vic 20 works great, but the drive does have some issues. It was a good deal so it was worth the chance. The 1541 tries to read, and spin but fails to even find a directory. So I hope I can solve the problem. I do have another 1541 drive that works just fine with the vic so at least I know it's not the vic 20. The vic 20 was on of my last pc's on my list that I wanted to own.
Well looks like I got lucky. I opened up the 1541 case, and for some reason someone had cut about 1/3 of the wires, that move the head back and forth, and the wires that move the spindle around. So with a little patience, & a magnifier, I soldered the cut wires back together, insulated them again. And voila. Disks format and read again. Not bad. For a $100 US I got 4 carts, a 1541, the vic 20, power supply, and cassette drive which also works. Lucky for me this was the vic that was AC 9V. So no real electronics inside to go bad. One of the games was Jupiter lander. I'm a happy grown kid!
Thanks for making it just a little bit clearer as to why those Newtronics heads cannot be repaired. I'd never seen the innards of one before. Has anyone actually tried to contact the manufacturer? Where has all of the original machinery gone?
You can also use PC mechanics as an alternative in the 1571, such as the newtronics F502 or D503, I have already installed 3, and 2 1571 heads I could already fix the wires, the problem is to remove the epoxy resin, this works with acetone, a strong USB zoom camera is mandatory.
Oh wow, where was the break in the ones you managed to fix? I assume it was between where the wires go into the heads but before the coils? Good tip on those replacement mechs, I'll keep an eye out for them
@@TheRetroChannel Yes the breaks were always in front of the coils and not in the coil. After removing the epoxy resin with acetone, I soldered the wires again under continuous resistance measurement. Most of the time it is the red wire that is broken.
My plug was on the wrong header, so thanks for pointing that out. It remains a horrible user experience though. Storage on a C128 is hell. All the various commands, incompatible disk formats, programs refusing to load in either mode, the slow-as-molasses compatibility mode when running C64 mode....
I didn't know the R/W heads used AWG 40. That would actually make someone like a guitar technician (or more precisely, a pickup winder) possibly capable of repairing or fabricating new drive heads, as most pickups are wound using even thinner wires (AWG 42 or 43 are most common). Granted, pickups are physically much larger, but the technique should be similar and with some speccing (expected inductance, resistance, turns per layer and layer count) it sounds at least theoretically feasible.
AWG40 is a guess, but they appear to be somewhere in that vicinity. I couldn't imagine trying to do that kind of thing, I'd probably get a couple of turns in and then snap the wire 😄
About the 1571 with not working lower head, I think you could swap the lower head (which is essential to access track 18) with the upper one and turn it into a working 1570 single sided drive, by changing the ROM (or programming a new EPROM)... Good job!!
@@TheRetroChannel In the German Forum64, there is a project of 1571-II (+), I have rebuilt it - 3 drives in a 1541-II / 1570 / 1571 with PC mechanic in the case of the 1541-II.
Great work bud. I've said before, you are very smart. I've learned alot from you. Agreed. Alps drives only. Relating to 1541s are you going to retrobright that 128? I know it's hit and miss. Sun method too quick. I recently retrobrighting cases inside. Different method, but successful so far. Slow
Thanks. Yeah I will probably retrobright the keyboard at least. I've tried most of the different methods, can't say I prefer one over another but as we're heading into winter here, it would need to be done indoors
The petroluem based foam from the 80s sometimes rots and turns into sticky goo. It's a serious pain to remove it sometimes and if it does that, it also smells bad and is very corrosive. I don't think commodore used it, but other manufacturers did.
If the 1570 lore is correct Commodore had trouble getting enough double sided drive mechansims at the same time as they had a surplus of single sided mechanisms.
There’s one of these drives for sale at my local tip shop. I bargained them down to $50 but ultimately didn’t buy it as it had no power supply and looked pretty dirty. Plus I don’t have any 64/128 to use it with.
Haha, yeah kinda useless without a computer to go with it. But almost all the Commodore drives have a built in power supply, you just need a regular IEC cable. The only exception I can think of is the 1541-II
Hello. Really, I don't know where can I ask for help....i have a 1571 with file not found error. I remember that when the driver turns on, it performs an autotest, with particular head/motor sound...Now, the drive turns on the red led and only one green led blink. I AM using a C64 because my C128 has black screen. Any help please (the 6522 is ok) or where can I ask for it? thanks.
When the drive is connected to a 128, it will try and autoboot from disk. But if it's connected to a 64, the heads will not move when first powered on. Could just be dirty heads or the top head not putting enough pressure on the disk. This is a common fault with the 1571 and I've heard of people sticking a penny on the top head to correct it
I've only ever seen Newtronics mechanisms in the 1571s. The 1571 diagnostic program does have a set of tests for Alps mechanisms, but whether they actually sold them with Alps mechanisms I don't know
I would expect you might be able to change the internal drive number on the 128D with the old 'OPEN 15,8,15:PRINT#15,"M-W";CHR$(119);CHR$(0);CHR$(2);CHR$(device number+32)+CHR$(device number+64):CLOSE 15' commands, then turn on the external drives and test them as drive 8.
Yeah that should work and I've used a similar command to do it in the past. It's just a pain in the arse typing that in every time you reset the computer
@@TheRetroChannel I completely understand. Just thinking might be a less painful solution than digging out an extra computer in some instances. Keep making these interesting vids; thanks!
Not sure where you'll find the exact one, but I get plenty of very similar looking ones searching google for panel mount fuse holder, or screw cap fuse holder
Can you clear up a 38 year 1570 mystery for me? My first computer was a flat c128 with a 1570. The issue was that the 1570 did not support the BasicV7 disk commands (dload, dsave, directory etc) but the V2 commands (load”$”,8 etc) worked. It was returned to the shop and they couldn’t figure it out so I got a replacement 1571. Can you test the 1570 with a flat C128 and see if the V7 commands work or did I just get a dud drive. Thanks.
@@TheRetroChannelThanks for doing that for me. Interesting that V7 commands work with the 1541. I guess the C128 does the the job of translating the commands to the disk drive. Still no closer to figuring out what the problem was though. Guess I’ll just have to live with it.
@@TheRetroChannel indeed. At this point in time it's even a miracle finding one that works. Do you have any? Sadly, I have 1551 drives with Newtronics mechs.
21:28 - That's no ROM, that's the MFM controller. 21:44 - No. For what you are about to do they are most certainly not the same. The 6526 is a 1MHz chip, the 1571 can run at 2Mhz. You got lucky in that your 6526 is the 6526*A* variant, a 2MHz variant. Most c64 owners would have 1MHz chips and a chip-swap like you're about to do will not work.
Ah yes. I was guessing it was another ROM, but of course it's the MFM controller. I didn't think about the 2Mhz 6526 but that makes sense, no doubt I would have been very confused if I didn't pick a 6526A
Lovely stuff! I've a bunch of 1541's to repair here and it's something I've never even used before let alone repaired! Picked up a few handy nuggets here.
Police knocked on my door and charged me with willful display of incorrect aspect ratio. My case comes up in 6 months. Writing this from my cell where I'm being held on remand. I can tell you that smuggling in a smart phone is not as much fun as it used to be!
Good luck with them. They're almost like fixing a C64 just with some mechanical stuff.
As for the charges, well you were warned. But at least you have plenty time to get a smaller smart phone
Great Video again! -Mark.
Thank you
For me this is very nostalgic. I cam remember back when each of these devices first came out. Reading reviews in magazines, seeing them in ads, and seeing them in person in a variety of stores.
It was also the time I was also transitioning to PC's and not wanting to sink anymore $$$ into my Commodore gear. Now that PC gear is pretty much worthless and these devices at least have some value!
An Helmut lives in my village. About 1km away from here. We had beer together, already 👍🏻
Mmm beer 🍻
Back in my Commodore 64 days, a 1541 drive would cost you a small fortune. Awesome video, Mark. Thank you!
Thanks Gabriel. Yeah those drives weren't cheap, literally like buying a second computer
Then about 10 years ago you could get them for nothing, now way back up.
Nice work. I unfortunately have a small pile of open drive head units on the floor of the shed. Good for Logic board parts but not much else. You were lucky????? to only have one go open. Most of the time both are.
Yeah, I guess it better to have at least one of the heads working. Now I just need to get lucky and find a working lower head. I don't like my chances 😄
thank you again for this video. the section on open head coils really helped. I have a diagnostic and alignment kit in the mail so in a week I'll have a working disk drive.
the coils measure good so it's likely a chip failed if not then it's an alignment issue.
01:10 To be exact you can run CP/M from the supplied disk also from a 1541. However - and that is the restriction to point out - you can't read or write any disks that were formatted in MFM from other (non-C128) computers.
We have Helmuts all over the place in Germany! 😜
For the 1541, I'm making a SD card solution that plugs into the CPLD/GateArray Commodore custom IC socket and intercepts the head signals just after they become digital. This enables you to use the drive to read disk images or, if the head is still good, as a regular drive. It can be controlled via wifi and a web page accessed via a phone, tablet, PC etc. The CPLD in a 1571 is configured a little different but I may be able to adapt my design. I will have to look into it. From your 1570/1 drives it looks like most of the ICs are not socketed? However, I believe/hope that most 1541s have socketed ICs.
Now that would be cool! Yeah from what I've seen most of the 1570/1571s only have one or two ICs socketed. But I think the most 1541s have the majority of ICs in sockets
Instead of typing the whole load"$",9 rigamarole, just type c-shift-A (short for catalog) and it'll give you a directory listing without overwriting your BASIC program. In your case, "c-shift-A U9". U8,U8,U10 are your drive numbers. This is one of the DOS wedge commands included in BASIC 7 along with CSAVE, CLOAD, et al.
C64 storage control has been stupid and unlogical forever. It should have had auto-detect when a single drive is connected, and for example a way to load a file with a single matching character. Also a proper LS or DIR should have been implemented. The later one has CATALOG, but that is a lot to write.
You may want to store the 1571 with the lever in the closed position (with disk or transport protection inserted), this way the spring of the head assembly will not get bend over time.
the 157x also uses an WD1771 chip to read/write MFM disks.
The grid voltage in Europe is actually 230 volts since 1987! Before than it was 220 volts at least in Germany.
Given these drives are likely pre-1987 it's not surprising to see 220V. Most of Australia has transitioned to 230V but I still regularly see around 245V here
@@TheRetroChannel That's true!
You can make the 1571 with the broken lower head into an Australian 1570 if you plug the spindle motor in backwards! Now wait if you flip the head plugs and remember to put the disks in upside down this might actually work! Except for the write protect notch being on the wrong side.
EDIT: IF this works, also install the badge on the front upside down!
😂
I think it won't as there is a shift between the heads, it might work, but it would only read the disks it made.
@@TheRetroChannel That head with broken lower part could be used to save some 1571's in C128 as the support have tendency to break. I have such drive with broken support and that head would be a salvation for me.
Repairing my own 1571 right now, sadly it has a broken lower head, too. It had rusty components on the board, which I already replaced, and the switching power supply was corroded, too, and was replaced by a meanwell one. But the dead head is a problem I can't repair :( Will try to find a donor drive
Wonderful. As it was my 1570 (at about 2:31), it seems the missing paint on the "liver" is a common thing ;) ;) the shape of the missing pain even looks like the same as on mine, I can clearly remember that shape.
Yeah it seems that paint comes off pretty easily, thankfully my other 1570 still has the paint intact
Just picked up vic 20 myself yesterday. The vic 20 works great, but the drive does have some issues. It was a good deal so it was worth the chance. The 1541 tries to read, and spin but fails to even find a directory. So I hope I can solve the problem. I do have another 1541 drive that works just fine with the vic so at least I know it's not the vic 20. The vic 20 was on of my last pc's on my list that I wanted to own.
Well looks like I got lucky. I opened up the 1541 case, and for some reason someone had cut about 1/3 of the wires, that move the head back and forth, and the wires that move the spindle around. So with a little patience, & a magnifier, I soldered the cut wires back together, insulated them again. And voila. Disks format and read again. Not bad. For a $100 US I got 4 carts, a 1541, the vic 20, power supply, and cassette drive which also works. Lucky for me this was the vic that was AC 9V. So no real electronics inside to go bad. One of the games was Jupiter lander. I'm a happy grown kid!
That's awesome. Nice work!
@@TheRetroChannel Pretty happy about. Saved another one that was probably heading for the garbage.
Thanks for making it just a little bit clearer as to why those Newtronics heads cannot be repaired. I'd never seen the innards of one before. Has anyone actually tried to contact the manufacturer? Where has all of the original machinery gone?
You can also use PC mechanics as an alternative in the 1571, such as the newtronics F502 or D503, I have already installed 3, and 2 1571 heads I could already fix the wires, the problem is to remove the epoxy resin, this works with acetone, a strong USB zoom camera is mandatory.
Oh wow, where was the break in the ones you managed to fix? I assume it was between where the wires go into the heads but before the coils?
Good tip on those replacement mechs, I'll keep an eye out for them
@@TheRetroChannel Yes the breaks were always in front of the coils and not in the coil. After removing the epoxy resin with acetone, I soldered the wires again under continuous resistance measurement. Most of the time it is the red wire that is broken.
Nice. Yeah it seems to be the red wire that breaks most of the time on all of them
My plug was on the wrong header, so thanks for pointing that out.
It remains a horrible user experience though. Storage on a C128 is hell. All the various commands, incompatible disk formats, programs refusing to load in either mode, the slow-as-molasses compatibility mode when running C64 mode....
I didn't know the R/W heads used AWG 40. That would actually make someone like a guitar technician (or more precisely, a pickup winder) possibly capable of repairing or fabricating new drive heads, as most pickups are wound using even thinner wires (AWG 42 or 43 are most common). Granted, pickups are physically much larger, but the technique should be similar and with some speccing (expected inductance, resistance, turns per layer and layer count) it sounds at least theoretically feasible.
AWG40 is a guess, but they appear to be somewhere in that vicinity. I couldn't imagine trying to do that kind of thing, I'd probably get a couple of turns in and then snap the wire 😄
About the 1571 with not working lower head, I think you could swap the lower head (which is essential to access track 18) with the upper one and turn it into a working 1570 single sided drive, by changing the ROM (or programming a new EPROM)... Good job!!
if this works, the upper one is springy and the head should be rotated 180 degrees, because the upper head has a track offset of 4 tracks
Thanks. Interesting idea, but do I really want another 1570?
@@TheRetroChannel In the German Forum64, there is a project of 1571-II (+), I have rebuilt it - 3 drives in a 1541-II / 1570 / 1571 with PC mechanic in the case of the 1541-II.
Interesting, I'll have to check it out
Great work bud. I've said before, you are very smart. I've learned alot from you. Agreed. Alps drives only. Relating to 1541s are you going to retrobright that 128? I know it's hit and miss. Sun method too quick. I recently retrobrighting cases inside. Different method, but successful so far. Slow
Thanks. Yeah I will probably retrobright the keyboard at least. I've tried most of the different methods, can't say I prefer one over another but as we're heading into winter here, it would need to be done indoors
The petroluem based foam from the 80s sometimes rots and turns into sticky goo. It's a serious pain to remove it sometimes and if it does that, it also smells bad and is very corrosive. I don't think commodore used it, but other manufacturers did.
At zimmers there is a copy of the 1570 demo disk.
Thanks! I didn't even bother searching as I just assumed Commodore just shipped them with the 1571 version, or the 1541 disk 😄
1571 drives are rare and expensive. I bought a faulty one to try to attempt a repair. . Not sure if its possible. I have lots of things to repair.
If the 1570 lore is correct Commodore had trouble getting enough double sided drive mechansims at the same time as they had a surplus of single sided mechanisms.
There’s one of these drives for sale at my local tip shop. I bargained them down to $50 but ultimately didn’t buy it as it had no power supply and looked pretty dirty. Plus I don’t have any 64/128 to use it with.
Haha, yeah kinda useless without a computer to go with it. But almost all the Commodore drives have a built in power supply, you just need a regular IEC cable. The only exception I can think of is the 1541-II
@@TheRetroChannel yes I think that was the model. Definitely had a din socket on the back labelled power.
Ah yep, getting a power supply for one of those can be a little difficult. You could build your own but it's not really worth it without a machine.
Hello. Really, I don't know where can I ask for help....i have a 1571 with file not found error. I remember that when the driver turns on, it performs an autotest, with particular head/motor sound...Now, the drive turns on the red led and only one green led blink. I AM using a C64 because my C128 has black screen. Any help please (the 6522 is ok) or where can I ask for it? thanks.
When the drive is connected to a 128, it will try and autoboot from disk. But if it's connected to a 64, the heads will not move when first powered on. Could just be dirty heads or the top head not putting enough pressure on the disk. This is a common fault with the 1571 and I've heard of people sticking a penny on the top head to correct it
Thanks You very much.. I will try this....
I am looking to buy a 1571. Is there any way to tell, from the outside, which mechanism it has?
I've only ever seen Newtronics mechanisms in the 1571s. The 1571 diagnostic program does have a set of tests for Alps mechanisms, but whether they actually sold them with Alps mechanisms I don't know
I would expect you might be able to change the internal drive number on the 128D with the old 'OPEN 15,8,15:PRINT#15,"M-W";CHR$(119);CHR$(0);CHR$(2);CHR$(device number+32)+CHR$(device number+64):CLOSE 15' commands, then turn on the external drives and test them as drive 8.
Yeah that should work and I've used a similar command to do it in the past. It's just a pain in the arse typing that in every time you reset the computer
@@TheRetroChannel I completely understand. Just thinking might be a less painful solution than digging out an extra computer in some instances. Keep making these interesting vids; thanks!
Does anyone know if you can get a replacement fuse mechanism for the 1570 ? I have 2 at home & both are missing the fuses & enclosure.
Not sure where you'll find the exact one, but I get plenty of very similar looking ones searching google for panel mount fuse holder, or screw cap fuse holder
Can you clear up a 38 year 1570 mystery for me? My first computer was a flat c128 with a 1570. The issue was that the 1570 did not support the BasicV7 disk commands (dload, dsave, directory etc) but the V2 commands (load”$”,8 etc) worked. It was returned to the shop and they couldn’t figure it out so I got a replacement 1571.
Can you test the 1570 with a flat C128 and see if the V7 commands work or did I just get a dud drive. Thanks.
I just tried it out and the 1570 does work with basic V7 commands. Even the 1541 works with them
@@TheRetroChannelThanks for doing that for me. Interesting that V7 commands work with the 1541. I guess the C128 does the the job of translating the commands to the disk drive. Still no closer to figuring out what the problem was though. Guess I’ll just have to live with it.
Yeah I can't figure out why it wouldn't have worked with your 1570. It may have to remain a mystery
Had a 41 71 81 and e2000 but never scored a 1570.
If it's a Neutronics mechanism, it's unrepairable. But ALPS is good!
Yep, I don't even bother looking at the Newtronics 1541's anymore. They always have the same issue
@@TheRetroChannel indeed. At this point in time it's even a miracle finding one that works. Do you have any? Sadly, I have 1551 drives with Newtronics mechs.
I have a 1541 with a Newtronics mech that still works, but I'm sure it's only a matter of time before it stops
21:28 - That's no ROM, that's the MFM controller.
21:44 - No. For what you are about to do they are most certainly not the same. The 6526 is a 1MHz chip, the 1571 can run at 2Mhz. You got lucky in that your 6526 is the 6526*A* variant, a 2MHz variant. Most c64 owners would have 1MHz chips and a chip-swap like you're about to do will not work.
Ah yes. I was guessing it was another ROM, but of course it's the MFM controller. I didn't think about the 2Mhz 6526 but that makes sense, no doubt I would have been very confused if I didn't pick a 6526A
First 🙂