Importing, the usual way: Buy a step down converter, hook your device to a multistandard TV and you're good to go. Importing, The 8-bit Guy way: Swap components, transformes and oscillators from at least three different units from two regions and print some labels. That's why I love this channel :D
@@theforerunnerreclaimer EU to US would be stepping 115 vac up to 250 vac to use the original EU power supplies, but that's not how our friend and humble narrator chose to do things. He preferred to convert the equipment to use 115 by installing an appropriate power supply or transformer for US use. That's a better solution long-term, and presents less of a chance for mis-powering and thus causing damage to the equipment. There are switching power supply units available that will fit in a 1541 enclosure with little to no modification. Some of these are even switch-selectable for 115 or 250 volt service. They will cause the drive enclosure to run cooler, be more power-efficient and more versatile. Arctic Retro just did a video which showed one of these units toward its end: ruclips.net/video/-21WMK_X7oQ/видео.html
Speaking as someone who's still a relative beginner at this stuff in spite of having a good few restorations under my belt, Same. It's always great seeing the process in action since written word can leave a lot to be desired.
TheGeekPub when I was younger my job was to repair almost all c64's damaged here in patagonia, in the south of Argentina. About 6 to 8 a day! Some of them were ntsc and I had the oportunity of digging into one, one day, that inside had a little convertion pcb, consisting of a couple of transistors and a coil. I took the schemmatic from it, duplicated it, and I modified to pal-n almost 20 other c64's. Good days in 1993 or so.. only eith this boards, no ic replacrment needed. Not exactly knowing what the board was doing ..
I remember seeing ads in argentinean magazines to convert NTSC C64 to PAL, fortunately my father bought me a Drean C64C, it was the first time I could play games in color! I'm sure it was amazing for you to convert those computers!
It's always awesome to see Commodore equipment get fixed and come back to life! A quick tip about solder wick: if it doesn't seem to be working, brush some solder flux on it. That'll help draw solder into it.
Keep solder wick in a cool and dry place, and, if it shows signs of crystallized flux, use a just a bit of extra heat with it. Adding extra flux may work, but keeping the stuff in proper conditions will definitely extend its useful life.
Dear David, Thanks for this episode--it is super interesting. You don't have to try to excuse "unplanned episodes"; this stuff is fascinating and many of us really enjoy them. Thanks again for your hard work.
Classic! That had me ROFL! You would be dead right (pun intended)... A centre negative barrel can certainly be the 'f-you' pin, if your device doesn't have a bridge rectifier or reverse polarity protection diode!
I can't stand center negative plugs. Roland used them all the time for their 80s/90s music gear, even though everyone else like Yamaha is center positive. Ugh.
I killed a Center Positive board for a mini black and white CRT, didn't realise I had a center negative adapter until I started modding the board and realised that's how I killed it.
Even though I am 13, I love seeing your content and seeing computers and all from before I was born (Before 2005). I'm like.. The only person I know that likes your content and watches it daily. Stay cool, The 8-Bit Guy! Edit: Now 16, Still watching content from you. I'm also hella surprised that this comment got a decent amount of likes/replies.
Learning things about retro computers actually helped me a lot when I started to pick up programming languages that are on the more low-level side, like C. It definitely helps to understand the simpler systems, it helps teach you about the newer systems and it gives you an appreciation for what you had to work with in the past.
@@ryjelsum I was born the same year as the Commodore 64 - 1982 the best year ever :D Everybody likes to make out we're all separate but the rules changed in 1982, home computing were born! We basically grew up together... So everybody from 1975-2001 can be grouped as the "Web babies" as we all had a totally different upbringing and appreciation of life, compared with pre 1975 people who were on horses carts and dynamo driven FM radios! We are the future people lol.
That's true enough, especially given how much the internet has helped generational exchange of knowledge. I started my computer tinkering at about 12 or 13, and learned a lot by annoying people twice my age in chatrooms and message boards :)
@@ryjelsum The next big thing in computers, will be AI operation... If you're smart which you are; you should have a look what companies like Amazon are doing with AI. It's mind blowing when you consider how far we've come since the 1908's when 64k of RAM was considered "Far too much". Haha, oh and 5.25in floppy disks! You ever seen one, it's bigger than your hand :D That was new when I was a babe. Now though what's new is Boston Dynamics robot dog bodies, powered by sensor driven AI modules and controlled 100% by voice and pointing! Amazing stuff you'd be right at home :)
Next time you don't have a fuse handy, you can use your multimeter in current mode to jump a fuse. It has its own internal fuse. I suggest using the lower range (like 500ma if you have it), the 10A fuses are often HRC and can be expensive to replace! :D
Not everyone has a fluke, i don't, you also have to get one to replace it. that link shows blank in the buy it now column. Or you can just order a selection of common equipment fuses and keep them in stock. checking amazon, the 440ma ones are $0.70 each, and are HRC. Not only does a meter fuse need to have the right current rating, but also the voltage, my meter can test up to 1000vdc/750vac
I cringed when he jumpered directly across the fuse connector with no protection. He's lucky it didn't trigger the "flame enable" even though no short was expected. An old school trick we used to use was to put an incandescent bulb in place of the fuse. Incandescent bulbs are nonlinear and work as a current limit in this case. Next, take a heat gun and start heating areas of the board: the lamp will get brighter when the bad spot is located. If you use freeze spray, the light will dim if the cold opens the short. Night light bulbs work quite well for this. Here's a link to an article about using incandescent lamps for troubleshooting: www.eetimes.com/author.asp?section_id=36&doc_id=1331961
Ryan Smith He also has an amazing hair style, I'm thinking about replicating it myself rather than letting nature take its course as year after year none ever falls out...
I'm sure others might have said this, but just about every house in the US has 240 volts. Its just not commonly used for regular everyday needs. The bigger problem is the phase difference.
Solder wick problem solutions(?): 1. Add new solder to the joint before using the wick - quite often the more the merrier (as it will displace the old stuff) 2. Add flux... I have the stuff in a shoe polish type round tin. I dip the iron into the flux to melt some and then drag the wick through the pool. I don't know if you'd already done this, but you didn't mention anything so I thought I'd add my 3 cents. GL
The way you time the music in the cleaning segments is just the best. You always pick the moment that makes your cleaning seem the most over-the-top awesome and it's funny but it also totally works. It gets me hype as hell every time.
@@davidkinkade81 (i'm the same guy) You're wrong. I have two 240 volt outlets in my house; one is for my clothes dryer and the other isn't being used at the moment.
Just seeing how much circuitry is in the Commodore drives (as well as looking at similar early IBM PC drive controller boards and drive mechanisms,) makes me appreciate Steve Wozniak's engineering even more. It's amazing he was able to implement a floppy controller with so few chips - later reduced to a single chip - where the competitors were using chips that were essentially the *SAME* chip as in the main computer itself. (The use of a 6510 also reminds me of IBM's early "Professional Graphics Card" - a graphics card that was basically another IBM PC spread across _three_ full-length ISA cards, used solely for rendering graphics.)
It seems that David was a reverse Dr. Frankenstein on this video. He took spare parts from one machine to give life to one. That takes a real man. The 8-Bit Guy is one awesome computer doctor.
Surely just a transplant surgeon. XD We take the organs from one dead person, and give them to a dozen others that need them. Same principle. The disk drive thing is a perfect example; Fixed 3 drives by taking apart one.
Just watched an Amazon prime series, saw that a new 8Bit guy video is out, stopped the series to watch your video. Your videos are just too interesting, they have to be watched immediately! :-)
I have fond memories of these magnificent computers! As badly as it bombed, the C16 was one of the most attractive Commodore computers I have ever seen and I think the vertical-dash rainbow strip between the Commodore brand name and the number 16 are the best packaging graphics I have seen on a computer to date!
C16 my first computer. :) Thanks to this computer, I learned to program in addition to the Basic language, the assembly language that came with Basic. It was not the computer in his time to play, but to learn programming and logic. Thanks for posting this video. Greetings from Santiago of Chile !! :)
Dude, if you already have a NTSC/60Hz C16, leave the other PAL, and try to get hold of a multistandard TV set, most Philips or Magnavox from the 90s will support just about any sort of Color TV standard. There is next to zero software for these machines in NTSC Land, and you won't run all the cool European Games and especially, Demos !
+Carlos Bragatto I was about to say the same thing but you beat me to it ^^ Pal have all the software and like the C64 alot dosnt work on a Ntsc machine so you repaired it but made it less compatible ^^
I've had a dispenser of solder wick in my tool box for something like 20 years. I never use it. A spring loaded "solder sucker" does the job well. The trick to the wick, however, is to put just a touch of flux on the wick. The minute amount of oxidation on the copper wick prevents the solder from drawing up into the strands and the flux neutralizes the oxides. But I still recommend the solder sucker. It makes a great fidget toy when your hands are idle.
Looking forward to the amiga episodes David. I use to be in the amiga demoscene and have a lot of great memories of both my commodore 64 and amiga 500 / 3000T! :)
Oh my, that brings back memories, had the Commodore C-116 back in the day in germany when I was a kid. I remember the terrible rubber keyboard, where the keys became more and more unresponsive very well. Back then I could fix the keys temporarily by glueing some aluminium foil to the rubber keyboard mat under each key. But they became loose quickly again, and it was just a mess. In the end my dad bought me a Commodore plus 4, which I was much more happy with !! ;) There was a commodore magazine, where they provided a project to solder your own speech A/D, D/A converter for the expansion port. By connecting a microphone, you could record your own speech digitally, and play it back on the C- 116, I think only with 1 or 2 bit / 4 kHz audio resolution, but back in the day that was an amazing project. Thanks 8- bit guy, for bringing back such memories, and keep doing what you're doing !! ;)
For a unplanned video it was pretty good, I enjoyed it, good job, thank! Here is a free de-soldering tip, you will have better luck if you apply some fresh solder to the joint first then use the wick, also put some flux on the wick and the joint.
Great video, always amazes me how much circuitry there is in Commodore disk drives compared to other systems i.e. pretty much an entire computer board almost as complicated as the system they plug into. They are built like tanks though, and seem to keep working. Also good save on the C116 computer, they are a bit more common over here in Australia (although I still don’t have one), but there is not anywhere as much information on them compared to other Commodore machines so I look forward to your full video on it.
This is easily the most satisfying video you have, its equivalent to those powerwashing driveway videos. The fact that everything had a place to go and everything in its place, it was really satisfying to see.
Since you don't use a solder sucker or desoldering machine, you may want to try this tip. Some call it the flood and tap method. Flood each of the connections with solder, but dont over do it, and tap the board and the part will usually fall out. Just keep cycling between connections so that all of the connections stay heated. You could use tweezers but usually they are not needed. Of course wear safety glasses when doing this in case of flicking. The solder wick will suck up the new solder easily but more wick will be needed of course. Keep up the good work! I sure miss my old Vic20 but have no space for it, so watching your show is the next best thing.
For what it's worth, I thoroughly enjoy videos that include getting old tech to work. There's nothing quite like the feeling of a successful POST after trying a completely non-documented fix.
Flow fresh leaded solder into the joint and rub flux on your wick and the joint with a flux pen before you desolder if it's being finnecky. Works like a charm
Pro tip for using solder wick.... a lot of the time on older electronics the flux acid has gone away from the solder joints, so I have found that solder wick works a lot better if you actually flow some fresh solder onto the joint you're trying to desolder initially, THEN use the wick to desolder it. Hope this helps someone.
As the best Commodore 116 / c16 software is written for PAL and not NTSC it would be pointless to convert them to NTSC as the graphics and colours will be different between the US and European software and it might affect the copy protection as well.
Mr T. Guru makes sense. Although the 116 is rarer, I would much rather have a c16 with the better keyboard. Also it is quite easy to upgrade the ram on a c16 to 64k.
Man, I really do enjoy watching you troubleshoot and repair all this old hardware. I find it fascinating, as just about all of the hardware you work with is about a decade before my time.
1551 uses 6510T CPU, but this is not the same 6510 as in C64s. 6510T CPUs has 8 bit "built-in CPU I/O port", while "normal" 6510s has only 6. To have this, some pins of 6510 has to be "re-defined" since these are 40 pin DIP ICs. So 6510T has no RDY and NMI signals compared to 6510. However it has additional two bits I/O, what I've mentioned. Anyway, it's just important to note, that some cannot exchange a 6510T with 6510 (or vice versa) thinking 6510T in 1551 is the same as used in C64s (6510). And yes, newer C64s uses the HMOS version of 6510, namely 8500, but again, that's though compatible with 6510, not with 6510T.
Thanks for sharing! You've just out-geeked the 8-Bit-Guy ;-)
6 лет назад
;-P It was not my intent though :) But I personally know a case when somebody wanted to put a 6510 from a C64 into an 1551 drive since its 6510T was dead. But that would not work, probably causing even hardware failure of the other circuits of the drive or the 6510 itself, so it can be important to note this.
1541-II had external power supply, and it was a lot smaller. And didn't heat up like a toaster! I think everyone that I knew back in the day, had that newer version, or the really slim OC-118N drive.
We waited 5 years for that followup C116 computer episode - but you have so many amazing projects going at once since, it don't matter! looking forward to it one day , maybe by retirement.
The Commodore 264 series (16, 116, Plus/4) got dumped into Eastern Europe, mainly Hungary, where it really hurt the domestic computers, which were really primitive compared to even those.
Nah, computers in Eastern Europe was hurt by Soviet Union as everything from Soviet Union was "superior" and that is why IBM PC won and noone knows about computers like K-202 that was faster and cheaper than IBM PC produced 10 years after him... Inventor was so anoyed with communists and people that they puted in charge of things that he quit the job and started pig farm and when some jurnalist asked him later why he did that his response was that he prefer to work with real pigs... :P
I used to love doing this kind of work. I found it extremely satisfying. I have lost the use of my left arm from a brain injury. But videos like this are very cathartic to me. Thanks for sharing.
HappyBeezerStudios - by Lord_Mogul That's what I meant, but he might want to keep the old caps for historical reasons and only replace the bad ones. I say this because the European version had Eiko caps made in West Germany (that's how you can tell it's old) and the American version had Nichicon (Japanese) caps, which is another interesting difference.
It is probably dead. But you don't really need all of the "current buffering" capacitors with the old "crude" technology from back then. Might run unstable though. It should be replaced because the other capacitors on the same supply lines are stressed more. Also the dead capacitor might cause a short eventually.
That C116 brings back memories. I had this one as a child, didn't know it was a computer because I never seen anyone using it. For me it was just a weird keyboard with a cartridge slot to narrow for NES cartridges so i just used it as a toy (probably didn't work anyway). I didn't know they were rare. It probably still lies somewhere in a corner on my parents' attic.
Just use flux with solder wick and it will work, fluxes are made exactly for working with coroded joints and metals. Except in a case where there is no VIA plating, that's about only scenario I can think solder wick would be useless in.
I've thrown flux at the screen several times, it never helps. I think he's just trying to demonstrate that there is never one best method, you want to use what works best. I will say that solder wick doesn't cut it when the pin is tied directly to the ground plane (or several) with no thermal. If there's only one such pin, you get lucky and you can push it through like in the video. Otherwise you really need good suction.
Can I confess that I have no idea what's going on in like 65% of these repair videos (the parts that I do get are basically cleaning and the basic repairs), but nonetheless still enjoy watching him fix them? It's so satisfying.
I didn't catch the part where he mentioned Hungary. Now I have to watch the whole video again. Here I come! :D Edit: Found it, it's that little Commodore thingy on the right. Now I can't stop watching the rest of the episode.
6 лет назад+7
Azt hittem én vagyok itt egyedül Magyarországról. - I thought that I'm the only person here from Hungary 🇭🇺! :)
To get solder wick to work better, add blob of new solder to the old joint. If you have any flux put some on the new blob of solder that you just applied (or directly on the wick) and it will draw into the wick much better.
LOL, "organ donations"! :-) Yeah, especially interesting about that is how it can be used to fix up two _different_ models that are still compatible enough in those areas.
Mmm.. Döner drive... :)~ You really need to apply fresh solder and then flux to make that wick wick like a champ. Also, you can test for shorts with that Fluke so you don't have to guess if the smoke comes out or not!
Picture quality is not the problem, because the higher resolution of PAL is not used by the computer and the phase shifting that NTSC can suffer from does not occur for directly connected equipment. The real problem is, if you use a computer that was mainly sold in PAL countries, there will be very few NTSC compatible software.
The more often I watch the video, the more I see that The 8-Bit Guy might want to learn. Here is some information about the 220V Transformer: In Europe, different Countries used different voltages. Most countries used 220V (e.g. Germany) or 240V (e.g. UK). The European Transformer used in various Floppies has at least two primary coils. Nowadays the net is unified to 230V. The 8-Bit Guy has the most common EU version. The white wire is considered as "neutral" and then there is a black and a red wire. The red one is meant for 220V (38 Ohm), the black one is for 240V (42 Ohm). As seen in the video, the red wire is not connected to anything and ends in a loop inside shrink tubing so the configuration is for 240V as advertized on the label. Earlier transformers had soldering lugs on top. This makes converting easier but you deal with bare life lugs so working inside the Floppy is dangerous. There are also Versions with solder lugs which can actually be set to 110V but they are really rare, might even be experimental or made from warehouse leftovers. Everybody who owns the 220V version should consider converting to 240V. The reason is that the regulators create a lot more waste heat when 230V is used. Also the capacitors are right at their rated maximum voltage and this tolerance is +/-20% so it is likely that the large capacitors blow up eventually. When converted to 240V, the Floppy emits 40% less waste heat and the raw voltages before the regulators are far below the rated voltage of the capacitors. It works reliable and increases the lifetime of the PSU components.
robertsd247 Maybe when his current library starts to receive the attention it so justly deserves. His sub and view counts are absolutely insulting for his level of talent and effort in video making.
The label on the 240V model 1570 drive also says 50Hz, I believe in the US it's 60Hz so should change that as well. It could just say 50/60Hz, as it works on both. :)
Yeah he should have but it doesn't really matter for such a floppy drive because the AC is converted to DC anyway and neither the transformer, nor the regulator care about the frequency! Problems arise when a device uses the frequency as e.g. a clock but afaik, most modern electronics don't do this anymore because the frequency is not 100% accurate. However, I guess that he's quite aware of this. No one would just blindly assume that only the voltage matters. Especially if they have his level of experience :)
I couldn't help but smile all the way. It's a joy watch you handle these electronics. I was really young when we had a Commodore 64. I remember he only had a tape drive initially but later my brother bought a floppy drive (a 1541-II I guess). My neighbour had a weird 1570 with that weird closing mechanism. But looking at these gray boxes fills me with much nostalgia. The shape and the color is just perfect. I'd like to keep more Commodore stuff around but they take up a lot of space so I'll go with the Amiga 500 I cleaned up last year. David, keep em coming!
I was given a part-time job of repairing C64s and 1541s in the early mid 80's in the town were I worked. The job came with a large blue folder with theory, schematics, waveforms, test programs, test roms and 8 (or so) alignment floppy disks. They had sine waves recorded on various tracks and you could see this with a cro attached to the head (or the amplifier, been too long now) as you stepped the drive back and forward. The 1541 suffered from software protection schemes which relied on bashing the head of the drive back trying to go beyond track one (clackity clack sounds) and the stepper motor shaft would slip (rotate a bit) in the cog that pulled the metal tape attached to the head carriage. It was only a press fit. I figured the best cure was to pull the stepper and cog completely out and drill a pin through both so it'd never move again. There were rotate slots on the stepper mount flanges so you could rotate it a bit for alignment as you put it back in. Drilled at least 60 of them, never got a return unit.
TheRealColBosch, why swapping? You can find a mod to make it switchable :) It's nothing more than a capacitor, crystal and an eprom with both kernels, and ofcourse a couple of wires and switch.
True. Those monitors are easy to obtain since every professional doesn't has much use for them any more. But the real C64/116 experience is hooking the thing to your TV like in the good old times. For compatibility you can always use emulation - or obtain another one.
I love these types of videos where you get down to business with proper electronics. I feel they are a tad too short though. Don't be afraid of making an extra-extended almost non edited version (unless that ruins some youtube metrics or you feel it's too hard to do).
I don't see any criticism there. It's just a basic (but not from the programming langauge, ha) statement. Heh, I think someone would have to be crazy to think of this as "criticism."
I finally did that a couple years back and have no regrets. No bad hair days. No barber shop appointments. No shampoo bottles. Who needs a full head of hair? Long live the chrome domes!
I wasnt a big computer fan before i stumbled upon ur channel...but this is easily one of my fav youtube channels as well as 8 bit keys!! Keep em coming!!
Importing, the usual way: Buy a step down converter, hook your device to a multistandard TV and you're good to go. Importing, The 8-bit Guy way: Swap components, transformes and oscillators from at least three different units from two regions and print some labels. That's why I love this channel :D
*step-up
@@MrToradragon depends where you live
@@MrToradragon not always. If converting from 220/240 to 120 its a step-down. If you're doing the opposite (120 to 220/240) it's a step-up
@@theforerunnerreclaimer EU to US would be stepping 115 vac up to 250 vac to use the original EU power supplies, but that's not how our friend and humble narrator chose to do things. He preferred to convert the equipment to use 115 by installing an appropriate power supply or transformer for US use. That's a better solution long-term, and presents less of a chance for mis-powering and thus causing damage to the equipment.
There are switching power supply units available that will fit in a 1541 enclosure with little to no modification. Some of these are even switch-selectable for 115 or 250 volt service. They will cause the drive enclosure to run cooler, be more power-efficient and more versatile. Arctic Retro just did a video which showed one of these units toward its end: ruclips.net/video/-21WMK_X7oQ/видео.html
These repairs/restores are my favorite type of video from you.
Same here
yeah, so satisfying :)
I love the internet :) hello from sweden
Speaking as someone who's still a relative beginner at this stuff in spite of having a good few restorations under my belt, Same. It's always great seeing the process in action since written word can leave a lot to be desired.
same
I was unaware you could convert PAL to NTSC so easily! Cool!
It sounds like something that would require you to swap the video chip.
Yes.. I had something totally different in my mind..
TheGeekPub when I was younger my job was to repair almost all c64's damaged here in patagonia, in the south of Argentina. About 6 to 8 a day! Some of them were ntsc and I had the oportunity of digging into one, one day, that inside had a little convertion pcb, consisting of a couple of transistors and a coil. I took the schemmatic from it, duplicated it, and I modified to pal-n almost 20 other c64's. Good days in 1993 or so.. only eith this boards, no ic replacrment needed. Not exactly knowing what the board was doing
..
Oh, yeah. You can do the same with game systems. As long as the proper parts are available it's an easy soldering job.
I remember seeing ads in argentinean magazines to convert NTSC C64 to PAL, fortunately my father bought me a Drean C64C, it was the first time I could play games in color! I'm sure it was amazing for you to convert those computers!
It's always awesome to see Commodore equipment get fixed and come back to life!
A quick tip about solder wick: if it doesn't seem to be working, brush some solder flux on it. That'll help draw solder into it.
Keep solder wick in a cool and dry place, and, if it shows signs of crystallized flux, use a just a bit of extra heat with it. Adding extra flux may work, but keeping the stuff in proper conditions will definitely extend its useful life.
@@horusfalcon So far any solder wick I've bought was dry copper braid, ie. it had no flux on it. I've always had to add flux myself.
Haha, you know your audience, we love watching you fix these old things.
Definitely
Absolutely yes!
Yeah 🙃
I agree
Best part fixing :)
Dear David, Thanks for this episode--it is super interesting. You don't have to try to excuse "unplanned episodes"; this stuff is fascinating and many of us really enjoy them. Thanks again for your hard work.
That moment when it's a boring and slow day but The 8Bit Guy uploads something, day saved!
Yay
Plus you're first
and full of snow
EpicLPer I know the feeling. I will watch in class if I have to.
The music is so uplifting!
That's Exactly what i thought myself.
Modern computers in black are a dime a dozen, but there’s something about these old computers in black that makes them look really cool.
center negative barrel pin, aka the 'f-you' pin
Classic! That had me ROFL! You would be dead right (pun intended)... A centre negative barrel can certainly be the 'f-you' pin, if your device doesn't have a bridge rectifier or reverse polarity protection diode!
A *FULL* bridge rectifier !
this guy eyebrows
I can't stand center negative plugs. Roland used them all the time for their 80s/90s music gear, even though everyone else like Yamaha is center positive. Ugh.
I killed a Center Positive board for a mini black and white CRT, didn't realise I had a center negative adapter until I started modding the board and realised that's how I killed it.
Your intro song always makes me happy no matter what mood I'm in.
Even though I am 13, I love seeing your content and seeing computers and all from before I was born (Before 2005). I'm like.. The only person I know that likes your content and watches it daily.
Stay cool, The 8-Bit Guy!
Edit: Now 16, Still watching content from you. I'm also hella surprised that this comment got a decent amount of likes/replies.
Learning things about retro computers actually helped me a lot when I started to pick up programming languages that are on the more low-level side, like C. It definitely helps to understand the simpler systems, it helps teach you about the newer systems and it gives you an appreciation for what you had to work with in the past.
@Fernan Schouffoer I was born in 98 and yall make me feel old
@@ryjelsum I was born the same year as the Commodore 64 - 1982 the best year ever :D Everybody likes to make out we're all separate but the rules changed in 1982, home computing were born! We basically grew up together...
So everybody from 1975-2001 can be grouped as the "Web babies" as we all had a totally different upbringing and appreciation of life, compared with pre 1975 people who were on horses carts and dynamo driven FM radios! We are the future people lol.
That's true enough, especially given how much the internet has helped generational exchange of knowledge. I started my computer tinkering at about 12 or 13, and learned a lot by annoying people twice my age in chatrooms and message boards :)
@@ryjelsum The next big thing in computers, will be AI operation...
If you're smart which you are; you should have a look what companies like Amazon are doing with AI. It's mind blowing when you consider how far we've come since the 1908's when 64k of RAM was considered "Far too much".
Haha, oh and 5.25in floppy disks! You ever seen one, it's bigger than your hand :D That was new when I was a babe. Now though what's new is Boston Dynamics robot dog bodies, powered by sensor driven AI modules and controlled 100% by voice and pointing! Amazing stuff you'd be right at home :)
Nice work on fixing up the 1551 I sent you. Its a shame it didn't arrive in a better condition, but you've done a great job :)
Next time you don't have a fuse handy, you can use your multimeter in current mode to jump a fuse. It has its own internal fuse. I suggest using the lower range (like 500ma if you have it), the 10A fuses are often HRC and can be expensive to replace! :D
I don't suggest that, some meter fuses are special and harder to obtain
Sparky Projects
Yeah AND more expensive!
Not everyone has a fluke, i don't, you also have to get one to replace it.
that link shows blank in the buy it now column.
Or you can just order a selection of common equipment fuses and keep them in stock.
checking amazon, the 440ma ones are $0.70 each, and are HRC.
Not only does a meter fuse need to have the right current rating, but also the voltage, my meter can test up to 1000vdc/750vac
I cringed when he jumpered directly across the fuse connector with no protection. He's lucky it didn't trigger the "flame enable" even though no short was expected.
An old school trick we used to use was to put an incandescent bulb in place of the fuse. Incandescent bulbs are nonlinear and work as a current limit in this case. Next, take a heat gun and start heating areas of the board: the lamp will get brighter when the bad spot is located. If you use freeze spray, the light will dim if the cold opens the short.
Night light bulbs work quite well for this. Here's a link to an article about using incandescent lamps for troubleshooting:
www.eetimes.com/author.asp?section_id=36&doc_id=1331961
Dave McAnulty a better option is to jump it with, say, 0.1ohm 2W resistor and measure the voltage (0.1V range) on its leads. Works up to 4amps.
I think part of the charm of this channel is that you have a down-to-earth, cool guy who is a total genius and does amazing things.
Ryan Smith He also has an amazing hair style, I'm thinking about replicating it myself rather than letting nature take its course as year after year none ever falls out...
I'm sure others might have said this, but just about every house in the US has 240 volts. Its just not commonly used for regular everyday needs.
The bigger problem is the phase difference.
Solder wick problem solutions(?):
1. Add new solder to the joint before using the wick - quite often the more the merrier (as it will displace the old stuff)
2. Add flux... I have the stuff in a shoe polish type round tin. I dip the iron into the flux to melt some and then drag the wick through the pool.
I don't know if you'd already done this, but you didn't mention anything so I thought I'd add my 3 cents. GL
The way you time the music in the cleaning segments is just the best. You always pick the moment that makes your cleaning seem the most over-the-top awesome and it's funny but it also totally works. It gets me hype as hell every time.
1:28 "We don't have 240 volts here in the United States."
NEMA 6-20 outlets: "Am I a joke to you?"
Also level 2 ev chargers: same here buddy.
@DJOLEX 555 k
Well there no wire in your home will have 240v (breaker)
@@davidkinkade81 (i'm the same guy)
You're wrong. I have two 240 volt outlets in my house; one is for my clothes dryer and the other isn't being used at the moment.
@Ronnie Roo Yeah, we use one for an electric oven too.
I really like these videos where you just go straight inside the case and fix things at the component level. *thumbs up*
Just seeing how much circuitry is in the Commodore drives (as well as looking at similar early IBM PC drive controller boards and drive mechanisms,) makes me appreciate Steve Wozniak's engineering even more. It's amazing he was able to implement a floppy controller with so few chips - later reduced to a single chip - where the competitors were using chips that were essentially the *SAME* chip as in the main computer itself.
(The use of a 6510 also reminds me of IBM's early "Professional Graphics Card" - a graphics card that was basically another IBM PC spread across _three_ full-length ISA cards, used solely for rendering graphics.)
It seems that David was a reverse Dr. Frankenstein on this video. He took spare parts from one machine to give life to one. That takes a real man. The 8-Bit Guy is one awesome computer doctor.
Surely just a transplant surgeon. XD
We take the organs from one dead person, and give them to a dozen others that need them.
Same principle. The disk drive thing is a perfect example; Fixed 3 drives by taking apart one.
Yeah, and so is stating the obvious, like you are doing.
The needs of the many outweighs the need of the few... or the one. :)
Thank you, Johan Petur Spock. :)
Took spare parts from one machine to give life to -one- three.
Wow, I've never even heard of the C16 or 1551 drive! I learn something new with every video! Thanks!
Just watched an Amazon prime series, saw that a new 8Bit guy video is out, stopped the series to watch your video. Your videos are just too interesting, they have to be watched immediately! :-)
The man in the High Castle is a very good series.
The Good Guy me I watch the grand tour
I have fond memories of these magnificent computers! As badly as it bombed, the C16 was one of the most attractive Commodore computers I have ever seen and I think the vertical-dash rainbow strip between the Commodore brand name and the number 16 are the best packaging graphics I have seen on a computer to date!
C16 my first computer. :)
Thanks to this computer, I learned to program in addition to the Basic language, the assembly language that came with Basic. It was not the computer in his time to play, but to learn programming and logic. Thanks for posting this video.
Greetings from Santiago of Chile !! :)
Dude, if you already have a NTSC/60Hz C16, leave the other PAL, and try to get hold of a multistandard TV set, most Philips or Magnavox from the 90s will support just about any sort of Color TV standard. There is next to zero software for these machines in NTSC Land, and you won't run all the cool European Games and especially, Demos !
Although you are right, he's right, too. He wanted an NTSC C116, now he has one. He can watch the demos on the C16 or on a +4...
Or install a rom switcher and some circuitry to switch clocks
+Carlos Bragatto
I was about to say the same thing but you beat me to it ^^ Pal have all the software and like the C64 alot dosnt work on a Ntsc machine so you repaired it but made it less compatible ^^
The fix didn't made it less compatible, it's the mod he made next that did.
Well yes but you know what i meant :)
I've had a dispenser of solder wick in my tool box for something like 20 years. I never use it. A spring loaded "solder sucker" does the job well. The trick to the wick, however, is to put just a touch of flux on the wick. The minute amount of oxidation on the copper wick prevents the solder from drawing up into the strands and the flux neutralizes the oxides. But I still recommend the solder sucker. It makes a great fidget toy when your hands are idle.
Looking forward to the amiga episodes David. I use to be in the amiga demoscene and have a lot of great memories of both my commodore 64 and amiga 500 / 3000T! :)
Oh my, that brings back memories, had the Commodore C-116 back in the day in germany when I was a kid. I remember the terrible rubber keyboard, where the keys became more and more unresponsive very well. Back then I could fix the keys temporarily by glueing some aluminium foil to the rubber keyboard mat under each key.
But they became loose quickly again, and it was just a mess. In the end my dad bought me a Commodore plus 4, which I was much more happy with !! ;)
There was a commodore magazine, where they provided a project to solder your own speech A/D, D/A converter for the expansion port. By connecting a microphone, you could record your own speech digitally, and play it back on the C- 116, I think only with 1 or 2 bit / 4 kHz audio resolution, but back in the day that was an amazing project.
Thanks 8- bit guy, for bringing back such memories, and keep doing what you're doing !! ;)
This not planned videos are pretty good actually hahaha. I enjoy seeing them, keep at the good work David!
For a unplanned video it was pretty good, I enjoyed it, good job, thank! Here is a free de-soldering tip, you will have better luck if you apply some fresh solder to the joint first then use the wick, also put some flux on the wick and the joint.
Great video, always amazes me how much circuitry there is in Commodore disk drives compared to other systems i.e. pretty much an entire computer board almost as complicated as the system they plug into. They are built like tanks though, and seem to keep working.
Also good save on the C116 computer, they are a bit more common over here in Australia (although I still don’t have one), but there is not anywhere as much information on them compared to other Commodore machines so I look forward to your full video on it.
This is easily the most satisfying video you have, its equivalent to those powerwashing driveway videos. The fact that everything had a place to go and everything in its place, it was really satisfying to see.
Absolutely enjoyed seeing this process. Unscheduled video or not I liked it.
If there's one thing that sends shivers down my spine it's little bits of who-knows-what rattling around inside of electronics.
Europe want to be your PAL
Lol
Haha
lol
Lol.
lol
Since you don't use a solder sucker or desoldering machine, you may want to try this tip. Some call it the flood and tap method. Flood each of the connections with solder, but dont over do it, and tap the board and the part will usually fall out. Just keep cycling between connections so that all of the connections stay heated. You could use tweezers but usually they are not needed. Of course wear safety glasses when doing this in case of flicking. The solder wick will suck up the new solder easily but more wick will be needed of course.
Keep up the good work! I sure miss my old Vic20 but have no space for it, so watching your show is the next best thing.
Right before you mentioned the PET I was going to comment "remember you did the keyboard repair on the PET?"
For what it's worth, I thoroughly enjoy videos that include getting old tech to work. There's nothing quite like the feeling of a successful POST after trying a completely non-documented fix.
Hour voice makes me calm and relaxed
the idea that you kept the transformer in his shield/frame is very smart, bravo !
7:08 doesn't it feel good when you are working on a project, and it all falls together and you fix more than just one thing!
Flow fresh leaded solder into the joint and rub flux on your wick and the joint with a flux pen before you desolder if it's being finnecky. Works like a charm
Watching this on a Windows XP. No problem! : )
Pro tip for using solder wick.... a lot of the time on older electronics the flux acid has gone away from the solder joints, so I have found that solder wick works a lot better if you actually flow some fresh solder onto the joint you're trying to desolder initially, THEN use the wick to desolder it.
Hope this helps someone.
He's gonna take you back to the past...
To fix the computers that look like trash...
The Angry Old Computer Nerd.
@@KanawhaCountyWX Yes but no.
@BedrockPlayer123 I'm aware. It was a joke.
The C116 was my first computer ever. Learned so much playing around with it. Happy memories.
As the best Commodore 116 / c16 software is written for PAL and not NTSC it would be pointless to convert them to NTSC as the graphics and colours will be different between the US and European software and it might affect the copy protection as well.
Mr T. Guru makes sense. Although the 116 is rarer, I would much rather have a c16 with the better keyboard. Also it is quite easy to upgrade the ram on a c16 to 64k.
Man, I really do enjoy watching you troubleshoot and repair all this old hardware. I find it fascinating, as just about all of the hardware you work with is about a decade before my time.
always like these types of videos though it is a bit depressing since i miss all my commodore computers...
I think those clear rubber feet are becoming a sort of "signature" for you. Every restored device seems to get the clear rubber feet treatment. :)
No, it's "clear rubber feet *fetish*" ;)
1551 uses 6510T CPU, but this is not the same 6510 as in C64s. 6510T CPUs has 8 bit "built-in CPU I/O port", while "normal" 6510s has only 6. To have this, some pins of 6510 has to be "re-defined" since these are 40 pin DIP ICs. So 6510T has no RDY and NMI signals compared to 6510. However it has additional two bits I/O, what I've mentioned. Anyway, it's just important to note, that some cannot exchange a 6510T with 6510 (or vice versa) thinking 6510T in 1551 is the same as used in C64s (6510). And yes, newer C64s uses the HMOS version of 6510, namely 8500, but again, that's though compatible with 6510, not with 6510T.
Thanks for sharing! You've just out-geeked the 8-Bit-Guy ;-)
;-P It was not my intent though :) But I personally know a case when somebody wanted to put a 6510 from a C64 into an 1551 drive since its 6510T was dead. But that would not work, probably causing even hardware failure of the other circuits of the drive or the 6510 itself, so it can be important to note this.
The time you take to make these is something I'll always appreciate
The Frankenstein monster of disk drives XD
Still, excellent work :D
It's like a salvage car rebuild
It got size of X-box 360.
1541-II had external power supply, and it was a lot smaller. And didn't heat up like a toaster! I think everyone that I knew back in the day, had that newer version, or the really slim OC-118N drive.
#DiskDriveSurgeon
btw i can't use hashtag correctly
We waited 5 years for that followup C116 computer episode - but you have so many amazing projects going at once since, it don't matter! looking forward to it one day , maybe by retirement.
The Commodore 264 series (16, 116, Plus/4) got dumped into Eastern Europe, mainly Hungary, where it really hurt the domestic computers, which were really primitive compared to even those.
They were also sold very cheaply in the UK to get rid of all the unsold stock. The ZX spectrum remained far more popular though.
Nah, computers in Eastern Europe was hurt by Soviet Union as everything from Soviet Union was "superior" and that is why IBM PC won and noone knows about computers like K-202 that was faster and cheaper than IBM PC produced 10 years after him... Inventor was so anoyed with communists and people that they puted in charge of things that he quit the job and started pig farm and when some jurnalist asked him later why he did that his response was that he prefer to work with real pigs... :P
I used to love doing this kind of work. I found it extremely satisfying. I have lost the use of my left arm from a brain injury. But videos like this are very cathartic to me. Thanks for sharing.
thought you were gonna slice your finger at 4:58. scared me there ha ha
onedeadsaint I've done that to myself with an Original Xbox. I never knew how sharp those things could be! I had a wicked cut!
VFuzball well too bad I guess
Cio Dokop can’t we all be nice in this comment section. It such a good community and stuff like that is uncalled for.
ScribTOON I agree
Cio Dokop if this was meant as joke I think it fell flat. let's all be good to each other.
Easy and fast job, if you use fresh solder and some flux, then the wick also works fine.
It looks like there's a bulging electrolytic capacitor on your 1541 logic board. Better fix that.
Better recap completely. if one fails, the next one might be not far away. It's a feel-good thing.
HappyBeezerStudios - by Lord_Mogul That's what I meant, but he might want to keep the old caps for historical reasons and only replace the bad ones. I say this because the European version had Eiko caps made in West Germany (that's how you can tell it's old) and the American version had Nichicon (Japanese) caps, which is another interesting difference.
Good eye. Surprised it's not already dead if it's bulging.
It is probably dead. But you don't really need all of the "current buffering" capacitors with the old "crude" technology from back then. Might run unstable though. It should be replaced because the other capacitors on the same supply lines are stressed more. Also the dead capacitor might cause a short eventually.
Where exactly? I don't see it in the video
That C116 brings back memories. I had this one as a child, didn't know it was a computer because I never seen anyone using it. For me it was just a weird keyboard with a cartridge slot to narrow for NES cartridges so i just used it as a toy (probably didn't work anyway). I didn't know they were rare. It probably still lies somewhere in a corner on my parents' attic.
Just use flux with solder wick and it will work, fluxes are made exactly for working with coroded joints and metals. Except in a case where there is no VIA plating, that's about only scenario I can think solder wick would be useless in.
I've thrown flux at the screen several times, it never helps. I think he's just trying to demonstrate that there is never one best method, you want to use what works best.
I will say that solder wick doesn't cut it when the pin is tied directly to the ground plane (or several) with no thermal. If there's only one such pin, you get lucky and you can push it through like in the video. Otherwise you really need good suction.
Thanks for all you do to help keep these machines alive 🕹️👍
0:24 he’ll slip n slide on this banana peel!
You’r videos have influenced me into actually caring about computers vintage and modern. Thank you.
11:00 The label still says 50hz :/
Can I confess that I have no idea what's going on in like 65% of these repair videos (the parts that I do get are basically cleaning and the basic repairs), but nonetheless still enjoy watching him fix them? It's so satisfying.
From Hungary?
Üdv Magyyarországról! - Greetings from Hungary! :D
Ummm.. Water heater for sale! Bojler eladó! :D
I didn't catch the part where he mentioned Hungary. Now I have to watch the whole video again. Here I come! :D
Edit: Found it, it's that little Commodore thingy on the right. Now I can't stop watching the rest of the episode.
Azt hittem én vagyok itt egyedül Magyarországról. - I thought that I'm the only person here from Hungary 🇭🇺! :)
Funny that water heater is "bojler" in Hungarian. Cause that is almost exactly what we call it in German as well.
Dehogy vagy egyedül. :)
Jelen :)
To get solder wick to work better, add blob of new solder to the old joint. If you have any flux put some on the new blob of solder that you just applied (or directly on the wick) and it will draw into the wick much better.
It bugs me that the back of the disk drive still says 50hz, not 60hz
Same
I enjoy learning about older computers! We weren't able to afford any at the time and i wasn't as exposed to them but now I get to see what I missed.
Ugly disk drive was so useful with its organ donations
LOL, "organ donations"! :-)
Yeah, especially interesting about that is how it can be used to fix up two _different_ models that are still compatible enough in those areas.
I was half expecting him to dye the underside black and use that to replace the broken underside from the 1551.
Tip for the solder wick.
Add some fresh lead solder to the pins first.
Flux is also helpful as well.
You didn't have a spare .22 LR round to substitute for the fuse? :D
(PROTIP: Don't do this. Go watch the Mythbusters try it.)
That was before...
Love your content @The 8-Bit Guy. I love watching you review your collection. I also enjoy collecting vintage products. Thanks for making me smile.
Mmm.. Döner drive... :)~ You really need to apply fresh solder and then flux to make that wick wick like a champ. Also, you can test for shorts with that Fluke so you don't have to guess if the smoke comes out or not!
Agreed on the flux! Always use flux!!
Always, ALWAYS a pleasure to see someone repair old electronics rather than dump them. Thank you for preserving some history for future generations.
Why convert PAL to NTSC when than means having inferior picture quality?
Picture quality is not the problem, because the higher resolution of PAL is not used by the computer and the phase shifting that NTSC can suffer from does not occur for directly connected equipment. The real problem is, if you use a computer that was mainly sold in PAL countries, there will be very few NTSC compatible software.
A C16 was my very first computer. Still love these, bought a Plus4 just yesteryear. Both the C116 and the Plus4 have a very distinct style!
Nice you fixed them
The more often I watch the video, the more I see that The 8-Bit Guy might want to learn. Here is some information about the 220V Transformer:
In Europe, different Countries used different voltages. Most countries used 220V (e.g. Germany) or 240V (e.g. UK). The European Transformer used in various Floppies has at least two primary coils. Nowadays the net is unified to 230V.
The 8-Bit Guy has the most common EU version. The white wire is considered as "neutral" and then there is a black and a red wire. The red one is meant for 220V (38 Ohm), the black one is for 240V (42 Ohm). As seen in the video, the red wire is not connected to anything and ends in a loop inside shrink tubing so the configuration is for 240V as advertized on the label.
Earlier transformers had soldering lugs on top. This makes converting easier but you deal with bare life lugs so working inside the Floppy is dangerous. There are also Versions with solder lugs which can actually be set to 110V but they are really rare, might even be experimental or made from warehouse leftovers.
Everybody who owns the 220V version should consider converting to 240V. The reason is that the regulators create a lot more waste heat when 230V is used. Also the capacitors are right at their rated maximum voltage and this tolerance is +/-20% so it is likely that the large capacitors blow up eventually. When converted to 240V, the Floppy emits 40% less waste heat and the raw voltages before the regulators are far below the rated voltage of the capacitors. It works reliable and increases the lifetime of the PSU components.
Kudos to the Obsolete Geek for offering his disk drive.
A noble and quite useful sacrifice. The 8-bit gods are pleased.
robertsd247 Maybe when his current library starts to receive the attention it so justly deserves. His sub and view counts are absolutely insulting for his level of talent and effort in video making.
I just realized that I have been doing the EXACT same stuff as you since 1987... but never recorded it! I love your channel 8-bit guy. Great video.
"I bought this from Hungary"
*Happy Hungarian noises*
A thoroughly satisfying video. Was great to see the "organ donor" drive be spread across three other units to get them all working.
The label on the 240V model 1570 drive also says 50Hz, I believe in the US it's 60Hz so should change that as well. It could just say 50/60Hz, as it works on both. :)
Yeah he should have but it doesn't really matter for such a floppy drive because the AC is converted to DC anyway and neither the transformer, nor the regulator care about the frequency!
Problems arise when a device uses the frequency as e.g. a clock but afaik, most modern electronics don't do this anymore because the frequency is not 100% accurate.
However, I guess that he's quite aware of this. No one would just blindly assume that only the voltage matters. Especially if they have his level of experience :)
Your channel has reached godlike tier, just like LGR, i can look up either channel and any video will be just as satisfying!
Why such a slow release of new content? Seems like it's down to 2 or 3 per month now...
I couldn't help but smile all the way. It's a joy watch you handle these electronics. I was really young when we had a Commodore 64. I remember he only had a tape drive initially but later my brother bought a floppy drive (a 1541-II I guess). My neighbour had a weird 1570 with that weird closing mechanism. But looking at these gray boxes fills me with much nostalgia. The shape and the color is just perfect. I'd like to keep more Commodore stuff around but they take up a lot of space so I'll go with the Amiga 500 I cleaned up last year. David, keep em coming!
"This computer is very rare"
2min later: "let's bypass the blown fuse completely because I can"
I was given a part-time job of repairing C64s and 1541s in the early mid 80's in the town were I worked. The job came with a large blue folder with theory, schematics, waveforms, test programs, test roms and 8 (or so) alignment floppy disks. They had sine waves recorded on various tracks and you could see this with a cro attached to the head (or the amplifier, been too long now) as you stepped the drive back and forward.
The 1541 suffered from software protection schemes which relied on bashing the head of the drive back trying to go beyond track one (clackity clack sounds) and the stepper motor shaft would slip (rotate a bit) in the cog that pulled the metal tape attached to the head carriage. It was only a press fit.
I figured the best cure was to pull the stepper and cog completely out and drill a pin through both so it'd never move again. There were rotate slots on the stepper mount flanges so you could rotate it a bit for alignment as you put it back in. Drilled at least 60 of them, never got a return unit.
Might still have that folder downstairs somewhere.
God no don't convert the 116 to NTSC. Kept it PAL. Get a Sony PVM monitor.
Not sure about the libary on C64, but for an Amiga or Atari ST it would completely agree.
Um. It was a matter of swapping two components, and he could swap them back at any time. It's not a big deal.
TheRealColBosch, why swapping? You can find a mod to make it switchable :) It's nothing more than a capacitor, crystal and an eprom with both kernels, and ofcourse a couple of wires and switch.
True. Those monitors are easy to obtain since every professional doesn't has much use for them any more.
But the real C64/116 experience is hooking the thing to your TV like in the good old times. For compatibility you can always use emulation - or obtain another one.
I love these types of videos where you get down to business with proper electronics. I feel they are a tad too short though. Don't be afraid of making an extra-extended almost non edited version (unless that ruins some youtube metrics or you feel it's too hard to do).
Make America 240V again!
This is one of the few RUclips channels that I actually learn somewhat useful knowledge about old tech from. Keep up the good work.
I love big-ass ICs and capacitors.
Great video. Those were well thought out projects for your Commodore machines. Your 1541 is a hero! He saved 3 of his men by sacrificing himself.
Not to be critical, but the mods to the drives basically made them US models in Euro clothes.
I don't see any criticism there. It's just a basic (but not from the programming langauge, ha) statement. Heh, I think someone would have to be crazy to think of this as "criticism."
Do you believe in chemtrails?
I look at people's channels often (not for any bad reason), and I saw a video with the "chemtrails" in the title.
_Eew... Conspiracy theorists..._
Basically made them 1541s in a European disguise.
I remember from old days - PAL signal on SECAM tv was just in gray scale.
David, I think I speak for all of your bald fans - it is time for you to mod your dome with a nice #1 trim all around. Let your logic board shine!
I finally did that a couple years back and have no regrets. No bad hair days. No barber shop appointments. No shampoo bottles. Who needs a full head of hair? Long live the chrome domes!
I wasnt a big computer fan before i stumbled upon ur channel...but this is easily one of my fav youtube channels as well as 8 bit keys!! Keep em coming!!