Thanks for joining us! To catch up on previous episodes see this playlist: News.missgoelectric.com ....subscribe to see future episodes on your landing page -Producer Tim
It would be great to see an American company continue to produce the best selling EV and best selling passenger car in the world for another year or two. Hopefully you are right. -Producer Tim
Larger players are capable of the scale required to make low priced EVs. At the moment, 90% of new automobiles sold in the USA burn gasoline. That is the target market for newcomers. That said, you are right. Several automakers of all sizes will fail within a decade. -Producer Tim
@@rokko_fable Agreed. I followed the development of the I.D. Buzz for YEARS. I was crushed when they published the North American specs. Way too expensive for a pathetic range; filled with overly expensive bloat. They called it a 'life-style' vehicle but with such pathetic range, I would never want to travel any distance with it. I had dreams of travelling and car camping it in; alas, my wife and I will have to keep car camping in the Prius C for another few years.
Most EVs available in the USA today charge at an *AVERAGE* rate of 150kW or lower for 70% of a full session. Peak rates are of little value. EV drivers are affected by the total session time. They want convenience. A sedan than more popular form factors uses less energy due to aerodynamic and weight advantages. As a result, they can delivery great range with a smaller battery. A smaller battery completes a charge faster. We think many RUclips personalities and their followers tend to put excessive focus on DC fast charging. An Afeela might charge 10-80% in 25 minutes instead of 18 minutes. The average EV driver uses a DC fast charger 3-5 days per year with less than 10 sessions. We ascribe very little value to a potential annual time savings of 80 minutes. We understand that most DC fast charging sessions are complete before the driver has finished handling their biological functions when they stop on a long road trip. Remember, 90% of American car buyers in 2024 chose a combustion vehicle. We think those 250-300 million people are the target market for Afeela. We think those drivers do not know or care about shaving a few minutes off rare public DC fast charging sessions. They'll charge at home cheaply and with great convenience 85% of the time on average. -Producer Tim
@MissGoElectric That's true, but your rationalization is based on the as-is state in early 2025 and not on early 2027, when the baseline market expectations may be notably different.
Based on my firsthand experience with our 2024 Rivian and Tesla products over 50,000 miles of road trips (DC Fast Charging) I know that an *average* session rate is at or about 150kW even in my EVs with a peak rate capability over 300kW. You are correct that other vehicles will definitely offer faster charging times in 2026. We will see what the real-world impact of those improvements will be for a typical driver. I suspect the average EV driver spends less than 5 hours annually charging at DC fast chargers today. That means the *maximum* time savings is 5 hours over the course of a year if somebody can deliver a 1,000 mile EV. Even if that happens, I will contend that most drivers will not base their buying decision on that five hours. As long as we must stop for our biology, there is naturally allotted time for charging. Beating that time is not advantageous for most drivers. In fact, I have found that super quick DC charging sessions can be less convenient. There have been times when I've I have to stop eating or shopping prematurely to run out to unplug and move my vehicle. We all have different priorities and use cases. You are right that DC fast charging matters, but I do not agree that the real world consequences of 150kW DCFC (with a decent curve) would be dealbreaker for most drivers. -Producer Tim
Drive Fly ride go Electic Miss GoElectric As always, brilliant information about the EV vehicle industry 👍 WELL-INFORMED,Miss GoElectric Take care,Miss GoElectric From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧 ⏰️ 11:20AM Good Morning 🙏 🥶
Exhausted reading through all of the comments! Producer Tim has done an exemplary job of responding in an even-handed, diplomatic, factual and fair way. If YT does not recognized the very high "engagement level" here, I can't improve on that. It may have reached the point where the best response is: "thanks for watching, have a nice day"...
Thanks for your kind words. I generally try to be informative and encouraging of thoughtful discourse. It would be great to have an active and positive comunity here in the comments section weekly. I have been known to brutally eviscerate toxic commenters. I justify those data-driven takedowns as a form of pruning. I want trolls to feel unsafe while thoughtful viewers feel welcomed and appreciated. Hopefully there are exactly enough heads on sticks at the gates of this village. Lol I've been much more wordy this week than most. This show has also had the highest viewership of any episode so far. I wonder if correlation is causation in this case? -Producer Tim
The Afeela 1 is really missing the mark. 2026 production. With only 150kW charging for 90-103k? Sure it has tech features, will not really be more than a city car. For a road trip it looks to be competitive with the MachE which will have been in the road for years already and is half to a third the cost
I want to test drive a model Y. The facelift update sounds good. I tested a model 3 (the trunk is abysmal) and the Ioniq 5, and both were lacking in interior room. The Y looks much better in this regard but I haven't seen one in-person.
trunk is abysmal? it's huge! It's the biggest trunk in a sedan I've ever seen. I went from a Volvo V50 to a Model 3, and the tesla had more storage than the volvo wagon. I mean on top of the main trunk, there is the sub trunk, and the frunk! The only downside is the shape, which is kind of inherent to a sedan. If you want taller, you need a Y.
Miss GoElectric owned a Model Y and liked it very much. As the best selling car in the world, I'm surprised you have not seen one anywhere out and about. We hope you'll update us with your perspective once you have had a test drive. -Producer Tim
Our CES segment is a doozie. It will probably be published on our INDUSTRY channel. We encourage you to subscribe there and turn on notifications. It could go live as soon as this evening. www.youtube.com/@missgoelectricindustry -Producer Tim
We're keeping our next EV purchase around $60K. This considering how much depreciation we're willing to take. BTW: power has been out for 3 days here due to the fires and we have made available our Solar / power wall 48 AMP and 40 AMP EV chargers available to neighbors. Many nurses in the neighborhood and they need to make it to work and back.
I think that the Afeela would need to be priced about half of it's $103K price to be competitive. But since they will have a showroom in nearby Fremont, I will go over there to check it out some time soon.
That list of features is much longer than any vehicle we've seen with a sub $70k price tag. We hope you'll report back with your findings. -Producer Tim
@@MissGoElectric Yeah, the Afeela should be a hit for wealthy, early adopter, tech hungry, EV buyers. I'll check out their local showroom. And I look forward to seeing your reviews.
That is exactly the function. Subscribe to www.youtube.com/@missgoelectricridereviews (one of our other channels) if you'd like to see the electric assist ski demonstration. -Producer Tim
Lack of specifications nullifies all excitement with Honda’s announcement of Saloon, SUV, or Afeela. The most important criteria for an EV - range, charging speed, & battery life were conspicuous by absence. There’s no value proposition in other features when primary functionality is non-competitive.
@ Robert, yes a few specs leaked out at CES, but not enough. Agree, 150kW charging was good for 2016, not 2026. Too little, too late, for too much money.
We can expect the Saloon to have similar specifications to Afeela which shares a platform. Next year we will see if Sony can succeed in introducing new buyers to EVs. 9 out of 10 new car buyers in the US choose to purchase a combustion automobile in 2024. That is a lot of opportunity. Remember, most EVs today drop below 150kW for 70% of a given charging session. My Cybertruck is capable of charging at 350kW. My 2016 Model S is limited to 120kW. I've taken both cars on identical road trips and found that real world charge sessions are within five minutes duration. The efficiency of a sedan compared to a truck or SUV is a factor along with the curve. More importantly, the average EV driver uses DC fast chargers 3-5 days per year. DC charging rates only matter on those days to drivers who are tracking the data. Perhaps a 30-60 minute annual time savings is not a practical deciding factor for most buyers. -Producer Tim
@@MissGoElectric Sorry Producer Tim. The Out of Spec I90 Surge showed just how much charging performance matters. The older Model S, limits to 120kW took 17 HOURS longer on a cross country drive. 150kW might have been fine for a premium car introduced 5-10 years ago, but times are changing. If Honda wants Taycan or Lucid money for a car, it needs to deliver those types of charging sessions. My Ioniq 6 is half the low end if the price mentioned, with peak charging at 240kW and holding above 150 until 70% (meaning dropped below 150 for only the top 30% of charge) Yes, most people are not traveling out of their home city often, but if you do make 3-5 trips a year, the charging speed does matter, and 'new tech cars' that are not showcasing the advancments in charging speed do nothing to help with the adoption of EVs. I have briefly talked with MachE owners who were at a charger when I arrived and were shocked to see my little Hyundai suck down the juice the way it can. 15-70% in the time some cars go from 55-75%.
@Robert Years before Kyle did it, Miss GoElectric won a coast-to-coast EV rally called Charge Across America which aired on prime time National Television (NBC Sports). www.chargeacrossamerica.com/#watch MGE and I have hundreds of thousands of miles under our belts driving all over North America in over a dozen EVs. In 2024 we put on about 50,000 miles driving our Cybertruck, R1T, and Model S from Michigan to Florida, Michigan to Tennessee, and Michigan to Wisconsin many many times. We have a firsthand understanding of the real world affects DC charging speeds and curves. I'm not claiming that 150kW is *premium* or class leading. I am claiming that most regular people will not notice or care. Kyle took MGE and I out to dinner along with several other EV personalities in Las Vegas a few nights ago. We talked a little about the Surge with he and Jordan, but I haven't watched it. A 17hr deficit for the Model S over the course of 3,000+ miles would be attributable to at least 15-20 individual sessions. The 17hr deficit will most certainly be attributable to MANY factors including arrival SoC, average charging rate, driver behavior (efficiency), average vehicle speed, battery capacity, route and site selection, preconditioning losses, and HVAC. An early Tesla with resistive heating systems will not be competitive with today's heat-pump EVs even with identical charging capabilities and battery capacities. Total charge time is a function of real world averaged kW input over the course of a session, battery size, *AND* average consumption. As you've stated, your EV6 (which has a decent curve) holds above 150kW, but not by much. We do not know if the Afeela 1 holds 150kW for the full duration. If it does have a nice flat curve at the top end, the total charge time for a session would be very very close to a vehicle which holds 170kW then dips below 100kW during the final quarter. The bottom line is that 150kW is not particularly meaningful. If a typical DC charging session is 15 minutes or 30 minutes...exposure to the experience is minimal for most drivers. -Producer Tim PS: Fun fact, OOS invited MGE to participate in the surge. There was no prize and it was a long time commitment. We passed on the opportunity.
I think the new Honda electric looks might grow on me while the Afeela is a little dull and its front end looks like something Saturn might have done. I agree with most of the other commenters, the pricing is a problem.
Hi Dave. Last year we reported about every automaker which made a deal for NACS support and their pecking order. Neither Mercedes Benz nor Volkswagen vehicles can currently charge at Tesla Superchargers. When those brands are activated on the network, we will report about it as we've done with all other NACS-compatible OEMS. Thanks for watching! -Producer Tim
I would be interested in seeing more on Telo motors small truck EV. It looks promising and the US needs a smaller reasonably affordable EV let alone an EV truck. The Donut Lab hubless EV motor line also should be looked at and reviewed. Very interesting design with some advantages plus a complete ecosystem of software hardware motors and controllers for trucks cars scooters and drones.
When Telo enters production we'll cover that. We covered Donut two years ago: ruclips.net/video/8mAgBqyq2bU/видео.htmlsi=uB_VhOr2NgwNKVIm&t=400 They had an exhibit at CES and we did stop by. That footage will probably appear in our CES 2025 coverage at www.youtube.com/@MissGoElectricIndustry -Producer Tim
We have been buying Chinese products for many many years at Walmart this pushing and shoving back-and-forth about different countries origin of products, batteries, materials of batteries I guess some people find it useful, but I really don’t see any point in it. if one country wants to harm another they’ll find a way to do it. Does this country think it can protect itself by little steps? We live in a great place to live. We have a great place to live here, but I agree with those who feel like it’s very insignificant to think you’re going to accomplish anything by blocking Chinese battery factories just don’t make sense. I personally have friends in many countries and don’t hold one country above another or feel like that there should be any prioritizing one country over another! so my views are quite different from the general public, but I certainly enjoy keeping up with electric vehicles and the progress they make and I own six electric vehicles so enjoyable to drive ,And I appreciate all your hard work, keeping up with the news and keeping us informed of what’s going on thank you so very much!
Thank you for joining us for this show and for sharing your perspective. We hope you'll subscribe to our Industry channel for some very cool updates from CES which should be published within 48hrs. www.youtube.com/@missgoelectricindustry -Producer Tim
Outlets which have reported global figures are using an estimate for the Model Y. Tesla has not yet confirmed Model Y sales. They've only offered Y+3 combined figures. If Toyota has a model with better sales, it will be the RAV4. We'll probably learn Model Y figures when Tesla reports earnings. -Producer Tim www.motor1.com/features/716773/best-selling-cars-2024/
A few commenters challenge our information each week. It is a great opportunity to prove our credibility in a public way. Lots of people read these comments. We are lucky to have a sophisticated audience of commenters like you. We know viewers will comment if they feel dissonance and it motivates us to do our very best to tighten each statement. We always post links to source material in the video description. Thank you for watching and for your thoughtful contribution. -Producer Tim
I think that EV makers are still focused on the smaller part of the market that wants and can afford a luxury car. The basic purpose of a car is to take people from A to B. A lot of the electronic features really are cheap to add but are priced high. This seems to be where the profit margin of the EV makers is and not in the basics of a car. This is also why they tend to be luxury SUVs. I think that it is largely true that you can't be a company in China without some connection to their military. This isn't a "6 degrees of Kevin Bacon" sort of thing. If you are a company in China and you make toothbrushes, the chinese military will be buying toothbrushes from you and likely contracting details of the color and shape etc.
thanks miss go.. here is an FYI Trees, like humans, require clean air and water for strength/ to survive. Gasoline/OIl displaces water in the air and on the ground, replacing them with toxins , further weakening the plants, and humans’, defense mechanisms . Thus the fires and pandemics. This is just the beginning. . L.A California, has 16 lane freeways and smog alerts going back to the 1960’s, they travel like barbarians. Many are still using the old rotary phone of transportation ,the dirty old ICE vehicle.
I get kick out of your description of honda's cars as potentially bold. If you look at it from behind the A pillar, it is just a box. Okay, it is a box with a slopeing hood. That said the slope in the front, and slight slope in the rear probably give it a little better aerodynamic flow, though i doubt its that much help.
Do you think other viewers would also describe the Honda Saloon as a "box"? Do you think the design is conventional and common or do you think it is bold and different? Would the Honda 0 designs blend in at an intersection? -Producer Tim
Two affordable EVs are expected for the US market in 2025. One is an unseen model from Tesla and the other is a new Chevy Bolt which will be produced in Mexico. I think the best value to be had these days is used EVs. Incredible deals can be found on preowned Mercedes EQS, BMW iX, Polestar2, F150 Lightning, and the entire Tesla lineup. -Producer Tim
Aerodynamics and regulations yield that solution set. We suspect that the product will not have sideview mirrors in most of the rest of the world, which permits cameras alone. -Producer Tim
Bidirectional charging is wonderful. Our Cybertruck has powered our studio using the PowerShare & Gateway3V when the grid goes down. We work in a rural area with frequent outages and always make sure the truck is plugged in during storms and other severe weather. The building can be powered by the truck for about one week based on our consumption. Miss GoElectric primarily drives a Rivian R1T. The company's CEO has indicated that all of the vehicles are capable of (V2H) bidirectional power, but the hardware is not yet available. Ford and GM already offer hardware solutions for their pickup trucks. We love the idea of grid stabilization as a consequence of EV adoption. -Producer Tim
@rp You bet. Society saves money when we decentralize energy distribution. The grid can be stabilized by V2G technology and owners can earn money as we've seen with Virtual Power Plant operations in Texas and California. We can also use V2H systems to enable equipped homes can go off grid when demand and prices are high. The vehicles can be recharged when demand is low. This arbitrage opportunity can be lucrative. -Producer Tim
I think I've heard that SCE lowered their payback twice, which could ruin someone's grid tie calculations. That's why I'm thinking off-grid backyard supplemental. Vehicle to whatever systems are far too expensive so far, home battery is always home
@rp V2G might not be the best bet for everyone. It is not even an option where we live. V2H affords the freedom of disconnecting when rates are high and topping up when they are low. Of course, V2H is also wonderful for remaining powered up when the grid goes down. We have 9kWh of stationary energy storage for crucial building subsystems such as the boiler, refrigerator, and well pump. The Cybertruck provides another 123kWh of long-term backup power at 60A 240v. That is almost 10 Powerwall's worth of energy. 10 Powerwalls would cost about $120,000 to install. The Powerwalls can't do double duty driving us through a river or pulling a 35,000 sled at a tractor-pull like Cybertruck can. We suspect that V2H will be a typical EV feature within the next two or three years. -Producer Tim
The Afeela seems like a little too late to market for such a vehicle given that Tesla, Lucid, Mercedes, etc. have options in the expensive vehicle market.
When I think about the people I know, none seem like an obvious buyer for Afeela. Perhaps Sony has some unannounced tricks up their sleeve? -Producer Tim
We saw Aptera there. Not much has changed since they unveiled the gamma prototype next to our Fully Charged Show booth two years ago. We are skeptical of the company's management and fundraising tactics. When they begin deliveries to non-investor customers we will report on them again. -Producer Tim
@NTH Tesla actually buys cells from CATL because they have the best pricing in the world. Elon Musk is not in any way associated with the DOD. There is no reason for him to limit his own supply. -Producer Tim
Class action lawsuits happen every day. Usually they are a money grab for a law firm with very few other benefactors. We don't generally cover lawsuits. -Producer Tim
When it rolled out on stage, there was no driver inside. Perhaps Afeela will have an autonomy advantage over Lucid. Afeela might also offer higher quality materials and a superior entertainment experience. The Lucid product line has poorly performing driver assistance features. -Producer Tim
Sedans can be a good starting point for new high end automotive brands. There are many competitors making crossovers and SUVs in high volume at low prices. All three OEMs which you mentioned entered a high-margin luxury segment with *limited competition*. The aerodynamics of a sedan accommodate higher range with less battery capacity. Batteries are the most expensive component. Sedans can accommodate more passengers per unit of mass. Less mass means less expensive supporting subsystems including suspension and propulsion. Production and distribution volumes are usually restricted by supply chain constraints, manufacturing limitations, and limited distribution locations when a brand is new. That means there is no immediate advantage to addressing a larger market. -Producer Tim
Look at it this way. If you at least partner with CATL (acknowledge leader in batteries) commercially we might be able to gain technology that can make the USA self sufficient in batteries. However, engaging, as a contractor, to the military often involves access to defense assets that you would rather not give to an adversary. Put this another way, had they known, would HAMAS have knowingly have bought Pagers manufactured by Israel?
Pagers are connected digital devices. Battery cells are analog equipment which is not connected to any kind of communication network. A battery cell is a packaged combination of metals and other inert material. Buying and using battery cells does not involve the transfer of any information to the manufacturer. Buyers write CATL a check and pallet of cells shows up. Packaging cells into modules, and packs, battery management software/hardware, and energizing the cells is handled by US automakers. As we reported last week and several other times on this show, CATL does make platforms and other advanced systems including swapping stations. To our knowledge, none of that IP has buyers in the USA. Some might suggest this designation was lobbied for by automotive incumbents to ensure that fact remains true. -Producer Tim
Afeela appears to be loaded with electronic distractions. It's a rolling home theater that's way expensive for a brand that many people will ask 'who?'
That is Sony's angle. They are building a vehicle which drives itself in order to monetize the occupant's newfound idle time. The screens feature Sony film, television, and gaming content. Sony will sell add space. They'll sell user data gathered by the vehicle and the AI assistant. Much like the PlayStation hardware...the Honda EV is a content platform to Sony. -Producer Tim
We overheard a Sony spokesperson telling customers that PS5 is built in, but we could not find any written proof on Sony press or marketing materials. We choose not to report it for that reason, but it might be true. In 2026, maybe itbe a PS6? -Producer Tim
Afeela1 is definitely a luxury vehicle and Afeela is a luxury brand. We do not yet have any insight regarding the price point for the Honda 0 Saloon or SUV. We do not consider Honda 0 to be a luxury brand, but it does appear to be a premium brand. -Producer Tim
A pig? Bruce...are you aware that the Model Y has been the best selling car on earth for two years? It is not just the best selling EV in the US...it is the best selling CAR in the WORLD. Your opinion is valid, but this is a sophisticated audience and a measured approach is wise. As they've done for 17 years, Tesla continuously improves the product. They add functionality, improve safety, increase the feature set, and they do so while removing parts and decreasing the cost of goods sold. We pointed out some of those improvements in this video based on the limited information available. -Producer Tim
@@MissGoElectric Congrats Tim, I would have answered as Dan Aykroyd's "Point - Counterpoint" character on the original SNL: Bruce, you ignorant slu..."
Rather than focusing on higher technology, AI and driver autonomy, why don't EV makers focus on bringing very affordable and practical EVs? These companies are still living in a bubble.
Affordability requires two things...cheaper battery cells and SCALE. As we have reported, large Chinese automakers are already selling $9,000 to the rest of the world. The US Government has taken actions to prohibit those vehicles from entering our market. GM and Tesla both have affordable new EVs coming to market this year. I'd go so far as to say no other automaker in the USA has the capability to compete down-market. -Producer Tim
Equinox EV is about the same price as the Volvo XC30 and Tesla Model Y with pricing from about $35k-$50k. We know that more affordable models are coming this year from GM and Tesla. We expect sub-$30k MSRSP. -Producer Tim
My Cybertruck has the same low additional camera. Here in Michigan we also have salt and snow. That is why the camera has it's own washer fluid spout. Price adjustments are calculated and deliberate. Are there some new cost additive policies in Australia? If not, Tesla has raised the price intentionally... reducing demand to match supply. -Producer Tim
Tesla's have one camera in front up high behind the rearview mirror. They have another down low. Redundancy is helpful to confirm distances and when driving directly into low sunlight. The lower camera is very important in close-quarters situations such as garages. -Producer Tim
Well said. It is not a simple situation. EVs also deliver a higher standard of living. EVs also enable personal transportation powered completely by *domestic* energy which improves national security and economic stability. EVs are statistically safer and are less likely to catch fire. EVs do not pollute at the tailpipe which has enormous public health implications for those who live and work along roadways. Even when cells are sourced from foreign countries, the valuable materials contained within those cells become a *domestic resource*. Future EV batteries will be created from metals mined from old battery packs. The circular economy enables a variety of prosperity which our nation has never known. These concepts are not immediately evident to many policymakers. Unfortunately, the short-sighted structure of our corporations creates a motive to engage in lobbying and other actions which benefit incumbents this quarter at the long term expense of our nation. We see it in energy, healthcare, and automotive sectors. There must be some way Miss GoElectric can participate in improving public education around these matters. Thank you for engaging here in the comments. -Producer Tim
We are happy to see many new Honda vehicles coming from Ohio in 2026. Everything will even out when next-generation battery technology persuades the 90% of American drivers who choose internal combustion to go electric. Automakers with EV expertise will inherit the sector
The Saloon has at least one buyer. I'll probably get one. -Producer Tim PS: I've had a bunch of conventionally beautiful cars but I do like the weird stuff. I've owned and loved an Aztek, Toyota Van, Saturn SW2, Toyota Camry Wagon, 2nd gen Prius, BMW CE-04, and Cybertruck. -Producer Tim
@@MissGoElectric You're not alone Tim. I actually really like the styling of both 0 series models and depending on price I too would be interested in owning the Saloon. Though Honda pricing in Canada for anything mildly electrified is ++$$$$ so affordability is doubtful.
Honda, like most Japanese, are very stubborn. So... having made these decisions and choices, they will spend a lot of energy and $$$ to make their EV cars come to production. This will guaranty that in 3-4 years they will suffer a crippling, perhaps unrecoverable, financial loss.
Most are built on heavy, clunky multi purpose steel frames. Cheap at first, but eventually will be expensive if allowed to dominate the domestic market.
In many regards American automaker Tesla is dominant. There are certain categories and metrics which are dominated by Chinese automakers. If I were making a list of the top 10 EV in the world, many of them would be Chinese. Which is your favorite? -Producer Tim
There are many of us in these comments with at least a decade of EV only driving. Hopefully we'll continue to improve our understanding in order to become a resource for those who might be considering a switch to EV. Thanks for watching and commenting! -Producer Tim
@ I’ve been on a one man EV education crusade for years now. Even before I owned one. Thank you for replying. I really enjoy this channel. Looking forward to future content. ❤️
So UAW torpedoed the Ford battery plant back in September of '23? We're talking a battery plant IN the Untied States, creating jobs for American workers. A Ford plant, btw, using CATL licensed tech.. but a FORD plant. Not a CATL plant!! The profits are going to an American company. 2:12 "the representatives responsible for the policy offensive against CATL aim to introduce enough uncertainty to deter buyers like Ford from moving ahead with supply agreements. A great deal of resources have been applied towards ensuring this story is amplified in order to sway public opinion about CATL."
Great point. There is a fine line between a true threat to US national security and economic protectionism. Some might suggest that a battery cell is not high technology with credible weaponization opportunities. "If ya can't beat em, Cheat 'em"? "If ya can't clock 'em, block 'em"? -Producer Tim
Love this channel! As great as Tesla's cars are, Canadians are making sure that they are last on the list of considerations. Elon Musk is viciously attacking Canada for being solidly left leaning with it's amazing worker's rights, paid immediate vacation leave, paid maternity and paternity leave and a lot more including free healthcare. Having to admit to your friends you bought a Tesla is shameful. Keep up the great work - the faster we electrify the better!
We understand that some car buyers evaluate vehicles based on political association instead of capability, features, or value. Those buyers have about 20 other EV brands available in Canada to choose from. Its great to have variety in the marketplace and we look forward to an even more open market one day. Thank you for joining us and we look forward to your comments on future episodes. -Producer Tim
Elon was born and raised in South Africa and visited Canada occasionally because his mother's family is from Canada. He lived in Canada for about two years from age 17-19 and has lived in the United States for the last 35 years. His first wife Justine was indeed Canadian and Elon did get citizenship through his mother. He is also a citizen of South Africa and the USA. I have read many policy critiques and personal attacks on specific individuals in leadership positions. I haven't seen any attacks on Canada as a nation by any automotive leaders. Where can I find published attacks on Canada? -Producer Tim
@@MissGoElectric Elon Musk has brutally attacked and boosted Trump's attacks on Canada. This entire country is in turmoil facing economic devastation. It's inconceivable that you would not be aware of that. Everybody knows that Canadian workers' rights are stellar and that healthcare is free and of no cost to an employer, and that is one of the key components of why companies set up shop here. And thank you for letting me know his stay in Canada was not as long as I thought - I feel a little less ashamed of him now.
@david I follow many EV leaders on social media web sites. I've been unable to find an attack by any of them on the nation of Canada. Can you share a link to one instance so that I can understand your point of view with greater clarity? -Producer Tim
The Afeela1 is laughable. Lucid bests it in every way for a similar price point. If the brilliant sedans Lucid manufactures aren't profitable, why would Honda even bother with that segment? You could predict this failure with 2 brain cells.
Which brand has better recognition with the 90% of US car buyers who currently choose to purchase combustion vehicles: Sony or Lucid? Failure is among the possible futures, but I wouldn't completely write off the draw of superior materials, driver assistance, entertainment, and name recognition. -Producer Tim
@@MissGoElectric I think that's a complete misunderstanding of the EV consumer base and the market in general. Luxury sedans are already a very weak segment in America and people spending that much money on an EV sedan aren't persuaded by a Honda badge. EV consumers tend to do their research and understand how badly the Japanese manufacturers have bungled the transition. The stats on this joint venture with Sony aren't even in the realm of competitive in this price range. You could bet the farm on my prediction and not lose a second of sleep.
@Ken You make a great point about the characteristics of EV buyers to this point. The remaining 90% are not like the first 10%. MGE and I are consultants. Most of the work we do is not made public or associated with the Miss GoElectric brand. We help automakers launch new products and we educate their teams. We've done it for most of the big players for about 20 years...focused on EVs since 2012. In that work we have seen this correlation error play out time and time again. Automakers seem to be doing their best to appeal to early adopters and tech-forward buyers with their EVs. In my view, it is too late for that. The winners will not be the ones fighting for the folks who have already test driven a Tesla. The winners will be those who appeal to the 200 million Americans who have never even sat in an EV. Scout gets it. We explained that in this detailed piece: ruclips.net/video/aM2Z56dmP-Q/видео.html -Producer Tim
Some advice for Honda and other car makers: do NOT copy Tesla. Features such as pedestrian killer front ends, drive by wire, electronic doors, minimalist interiors, wacky designs trying to look like the future, and all controls through a central touch screen are all huge mistakes and will be the end of the brand. Do your own research and target the middle man, not first adopter tech geeks with no common sense.
There is room in the marketplace for many approaches. Each brand is wise to determine how best they can attract the 9 of 10 American car buyers who have rejected EVs so far. That said, Tesla does have the highest brand loyalty of any automaker which does business in the USA. The Model Y sells more than Toyota RAV4 and Corolla which have dominated passenger cars for years. Tesla builds the best selling car in the USA and on planet Earth. There are 20 EV brands which compete with Tesla in America. When all of their sales are combined, they equal Tesla's sales figure. Perhaps it would be wise to understand what Tesla is doing to dominate their competitors handily rather than writing them off completely. -Producer Tim
@@MissGoElectric Thanks Tim for your insights. I think it is fair to say though, that not one of the features mentioned has contributed to Tesla's success, possibly the exact opposite. Even Tesla have started to back-track on their minimalism by putting stalks back into the new Model Y. Tesla's success lies elsewhere in first to market, focus on automated and efficient manufacturing, oversell through false promises, their extensive use of influencers and pumpers, and their whole of service offering with the supercharger network.
@moto Tesla's interior minimalism persists: The first four Tesla models all had a stalk for a decade. Today no Tesla available in the USA has a stalk. Perhaps in the future a revised Model Y will include as they've done in China. Even with a stalk, are you aware of a brand selling in the USA which has a more spartan interior? It is a stylistic choice and it is a cost-efficacy choice. The brand iterates quickly and responds to local market demand. We saw that with the brief period of time in which yolk steering was standard on X and S. The buyers preferred steering wheels, so they reverted. Being nimble and giving people what they want seems like a pretty good way to run a business, doesn't it? Tesla was NOT first to market with EVs: GM was the first OEM to market with an EV in the USA. Their EV1 went into production in 1996. Tesla built a few of the low volume Lotus retrofit called the Roadster in 2008. Nissan was first with a *mass* market EV in 2009. Mitsubishi iMiev hit the same year. Ford also Tesla to market with the 2011 the mass-market Ford Focus Electric. Finally in 2012, Tesla's first original mass market vehicle (Model S) began selling. Overselling: If Tesla has remained on top by overselling and delivering false promises for 17 years, we'd have seen massive dissatisfaction and defection. As I mentioned in the previous message, Tesla has the highest customer loyalty of any automaker. Customers like scheduling service though the app and having it done in their driveway. They like vehicles which receive automatic updates and improve significantly every year. Customers want to drive the safest vehicles available. Influencers and Pumpers: Did you Tesla does not have a marketing budget for endorsees? They have none. They don't give cars to celebrities (never have) and they do not run commercials on TV. If you would like to see money buying influence, look to all of the other automakers. They spent at least $12 billion in 2024 buying marketing of various forms. www.forbes.com/sites/edgarsten/2024/02/12/auto-industry-co-op-ad-spending-rises-as-inventories-grow/ Disregarding their product and methodologies has not worked out very well for competitors. Tesla now has a higher market capitalization than its top 35 automaker competitors combined. Tesla has probably made more millionaires than any other company in human history due to its unusually high retail-investor percentage. Isn't that a triumph for common man? www.newsweek.com/elon-musk-tesla-worth-more-35-next-biggest-automakers-combined-2006586 -Producer Tim
Tim, minimalism is a stylistic choice as you say, not a practical one. Tesla wont attract the regular car buyer with that approach. Most consumers like proper instrument clusters and physical controls. And that is my point. Tesla found an inroad with early adopters, but that is not what is required now, and manufacturers need to be careful not to follow Tesla into the same dead end. I do agree that OTA updates and continuous improvements are helpful features that other manufacturers could learn from. Regarding the oversell, influencers and pumpers, Tesla use their stock pumpers to promote the product. I have no idea how they are financially rewarded for this, possible just through promotion from Twitter or the stock value itself. But worth noting Tesla is one of the most over priced (P/E) of all stocks, and likely due for a correction in 2025 as "the massive dissatisfaction and defection" finally pops, which may have already started.
So far, Tesla has attracted over 6 million regular car buyers worldwide. We both agree that there are billions more consumers to persuade. Many will go EV based on a totally different set of features and factors. Interior minimalism is the consequence of a greatly reduced parts count. That aesthetic approach is borne of necessity as Tesla could not find suppliers for hundreds of sub-assemblies and switchgear elements in the early days. As with most effective engineering, the most elegant machine is the one which gets the job done with the fewest components. Delete parts until it doesn't work, then add a few back until its working well. Everybody wins with that approach. Of course, there is always a market for brands like Scout and GMC to add lots of tactile elements (at great expense) for those buyers who are willing to pay extra for more parts. We know that younger buyers tend not to prefer buttons and knobs. Older buyers who like buttons and knobs probably won't buy many more vehicles...especially considering the unprecedented longevity of today's EVs. Am I understanding it correctly that you predict Tesla's sector leading customer loyalty will suddenly fall from 17 years at around 70% to something below the industry average of 50% in 2025? I can tell you that personally my loyalty is higher today than my previous 9 years of ownership because of the standard-of-living upgrade made possible by recent supervised Full Self Driving advancements. I have driven hundreds of makes/models from bargain basement to McLaren, Rolls Royce, and Astron Martin. I cannot imagine daily driving any vehicle without FSD. Don't you think others will feel similarly about that feature which is only available from Tesla? My uncle in his 80s purchased a brand new Model 3 last week because his reaction time and vision is not as good as it used to be. He feels safer supervising his Tesla FSD compared to driving on his own. If unsupervised FSD goes live in 2025, a huge total addressable market will open up to automobiles for the first time. Those with disabilities, old age, and the infirm will suddenly be able to own an automobile and experience newfound freedom. Your observation about Tesla stock price being overvalued is an interesting one. Tesla stock is worth less now than it was back in November of 2021. In that time Tesla has opened two more global factories, introduced two new models, and quadrupled their production. They've also moved very close to unsupervised FSD, expanded the energy business by an order of magnitude, and plan to integrate Grok AI this quarter. The company is also developing the Optimus robot and next-generation DoJo chip which could have them squarely competing with Nvidia/TSMC as well as AmazonWebServices. Don't you agree that the company has made quite a bit of progress considering the reduction in valuation? Thanks for sharing your perspective. It is always fascinating to learn how others perceive EV brands and based on what information. -Producer Tim
Musk’s refusal to use more advanced navigation hardware is going to hurt sales and driver satisfaction. Everyone else is using LIDAR and radar. Our Model 3 is so bad we don’t use self driving anymore.
Have you used a Tesla with hardware 4? Miss GoElectric and I rarely drive locally. Our Cybertruck does all of the driving from our driveway to our destination and back including parking. Human drivers have only two cameras (eyes) on a high-latency gimbal (head/neck). Tesla vehicles have 8-9 cameras which do not blink and much greater photonic sensitivity than an eyeball. Tesla vehicles now listen to their environments reacting to sirens and horns. All competing systems stop working when the vehicle ventures outside of a subset of mapped areas. Teslas can drive anywhere including places where no Tesla has ever been. Here is a video of a Tesla driving around in New York City for 40 minutes without requiring any human input. ruclips.net/video/5oP0Zp7PCdQ/видео.html Are you sure it is necessary for an autonomous vehicle to have $5,000-$10,000 worth of additional sensors? Remember, the enormous stealth bomber appears to be the size of a marble to advanced radars. Dense snowfall and fog can appear as a brick wall to advanced LiDar. The problem comes about when various sensors disagree about environmental factors and objects. The reason we've only seen Waymo deploy in fair weather environments including SF, LA, Austin, Miami, and Atlanta is that they do not work well in snow, dirt roads, and tight roads like we see in the northeast and throughout Europe. I live on a dirt road in Michigan. My vehicle has no problem dealing with unmarked pathways, icy surfaces, snowfall, and slush slopping up. Last week the CEOs of Google (Waymo) and Nvidia (DRIVE) each confirmed in interviews that Tesla is the global leader. Chinese EV giant XPeng has recently confirmed that they are ditching LiDAR and switching to a vision-only approach. Tier 1 auto supplier Bosch has also abandoned LiDAR for their self-driving systems. -Producer Tim
@ Whatever is in our 2021 M3 is what we use. Stating Musk has improved on human eyes doesn’t mean a whole bunch. Radar was invented to spot objects much further away than any eye or camera can see. And, in rain, sleet, fog and snow. Same with LIDAR. Sure, nothing is yet perfect but I feel a combination of cameras and more advanced tech gets us pretty close. Tesla isn’t the only manufacturer now that can self drive on un-mapped roads. But, probably the only one that go from your driveway to a parking lot 100 miles away. Enjoy your content, keep it up.
@tone Ah...yes you are right that your HW3 equipped Model 3 does not deliver an optimal experience. Tesla has committed to upgrading all of those vehicles free of charge if they determine that HW3 is incapable of handling optimized *unsupervised* FSD. What other makes/models available in the USA allows hands-off driving on unmapped roads including surface streets? Thanks for watching! -Producer Tim PS: Here is a recent extended video of HW4 enabled Tesla driving at night in the rain: ruclips.net/video/Jdbk0v9z2J8/видео.html
@tone I'm a certified Genesis Academy instructor and I've visited about 100 Hyundai Group Dealerships training thousands of salespeople on Hyundai Group driver assistance systems. I've conducted at least 100 hands-off driving demonstrations and have personally driven with the Hyundai suite for about 10,000 miles. I have read through the specifications of the 2025 Ioniq Driver Assistance Suite systems to see if there have been fundamental improvements since my last experience in Genesis. It appears as if the new Ioniq is only equipped with HDA2 and smart cruise control. It can keep a driver in a lane, but it doesn't take the driver to a destination or handle navigation through city streets. Driver Assistance features are explained starting on page 367 owners.hyundaiusa.com/content/dam/hyundai/us/myhyundai/manuals/glovebox-manual/2025/ioniq-5/NE1a-2025-en_US-2C.pdf If you have access to Hyundai (non-Waymo) self-driving video please share it. It would be wonderful to learn more. We frequently get into our Cybertruck, push a button, and do nothing until it has parked at the destination in the next down or even hundreds of miles away in another state or county. Hands are not required to touch the steering wheel. To my knowledge, no other automobile in America offers that supervised full self driving capability. We've had a lot of experience in Waymo and Cruise (RIP) vehicles. Waymo is was wonderful, but limited to a confined space. Waymo vehicles are not available for purchase by consumers and do rely on human beings who remotely oversee and direct vehicle behavior. We've had them patch in when a vagrant jumped on the hood of our vehicle. -Producer Tim
The CATL story should not have been editorialised in this fashion. It is beyond your competence. It does not matter whether a particular product can be used to damage the citizens of the United States. If we have determined that the firm itself are in the thrall of the Chinese government, we should take action as we did. This action is the first in a progression of steps, the first warning shot.
George, you have no idea where our competence ends. That said, we appreciate your having expressed your view that CATL is actually involved with military operations and that CATL cells should not be used to contain energy for any military operations. We welcome all points of view when expressed thoughtfully and respectfully. -Producer Tim
Miss GoElectric delivered facts and economic law. Reduced competition does drive up prices. High prices reduce demand. Reduced demand equates to a contraction of the EV market and thusly, reduced EV adoption. Those correlations are not opinions. In the story, Miss GoElectric identified several categories of goods and materials which appear to be exempt from DoD categorization. Battery cells are not high tech or connected. She posed a question to the audience - are they a real threat or is this CATL designation only protectionism in disguise? I didn't hear her express an opinion either way. -Producer Tim
More likely it's an admission that the US is years behind China in battery technology. Your governments have been sucking up to your oil industry for decades and there's no end in sight. Eventually Americans will wake up to see other parts of the world driving high quality EVs while they're stick with dirty cumbersome expensive gas guzzlers. Then shit will get real.
it's true. I find it amazing that people believe anything that Chinese companies (or the CCP) say. They have proven time and time and time again, and again, and again, that they can't be trusted. They have zero qualms about lying, as their entire mindset is just to win, at any cost necessary. you can't play fair, when the other party doesn't even believe in the concept of fair.
It's a co-opetition situation. If we block ourselves off... they have the best technology currently... so they will just keep pulling away and take the rest of global markets with them. We should probably do what the Chinese did, insist on joint-ventures and technology transfer, and gradually build domestic capacity. Cutting off access to the best tech right now is self-defeating.
Nice work, as usual! IMO, the Afeela seems like a dud.... too expensive, too much focus on interior tech and gadgets... guess we will see once it is in production.
Just the kind of podcast We needed ...
a run down once a week of EV news. thank you.
Thanks for joining us! To catch up on previous episodes see this playlist:
News.missgoelectric.com
....subscribe to see future episodes on your landing page
-Producer Tim
Part of my Sunday morning routine. Love it.
Thank you for joining us each Sunday morning! -Producer Tim
Good report on new ModY. It looks to be a segment winner
It would be great to see an American company continue to produce the best selling EV and best selling passenger car in the world for another year or two. Hopefully you are right. -Producer Tim
Just what we don't need two more expensive EV sedans. What we need is two inexpensive cars and suv. I see major failures coming.
Larger players are capable of the scale required to make low priced EVs.
At the moment, 90% of new automobiles sold in the USA burn gasoline. That is the target market for newcomers.
That said, you are right. Several automakers of all sizes will fail within a decade.
-Producer Tim
@@MissGoElectric Henry Ford would be producing a cheap car for the masses.
we also need an affordable van! VW missed the mark.
@@jamesvandamme7786, there is MUCH MORE depth to the history of this. Like most historical 'stories', this one lacks so many damaging factors.
@@rokko_fable Agreed. I followed the development of the I.D. Buzz for YEARS. I was crushed when they published the North American specs. Way too expensive for a pathetic range; filled with overly expensive bloat. They called it a 'life-style' vehicle but with such pathetic range, I would never want to travel any distance with it. I had dreams of travelling and car camping it in; alas, my wife and I will have to keep car camping in the Prius C for another few years.
Cue the Afeela jokes.......Afeela an over-engineered, under-ranged bomb coming on.
It will be interesting to see if they've got an ace in the hole. -Producer Tim
That 150-kW charging rate for a 2026 car is pretty underwhelming, in addition to the range figures.
Most EVs available in the USA today charge at an *AVERAGE* rate of 150kW or lower for 70% of a full session. Peak rates are of little value.
EV drivers are affected by the total session time. They want convenience. A sedan than more popular form factors uses less energy due to aerodynamic and weight advantages. As a result, they can delivery great range with a smaller battery. A smaller battery completes a charge faster.
We think many RUclips personalities and their followers tend to put excessive focus on DC fast charging. An Afeela might charge 10-80% in 25 minutes instead of 18 minutes. The average EV driver uses a DC fast charger 3-5 days per year with less than 10 sessions. We ascribe very little value to a potential annual time savings of 80 minutes. We understand that most DC fast charging sessions are complete before the driver has finished handling their biological functions when they stop on a long road trip.
Remember, 90% of American car buyers in 2024 chose a combustion vehicle. We think those 250-300 million people are the target market for Afeela. We think those drivers do not know or care about shaving a few minutes off rare public DC fast charging sessions. They'll charge at home cheaply and with great convenience 85% of the time on average. -Producer Tim
@MissGoElectric That's true, but your rationalization is based on the as-is state in early 2025 and not on early 2027, when the baseline market expectations may be notably different.
Based on my firsthand experience with our 2024 Rivian and Tesla products over 50,000 miles of road trips (DC Fast Charging) I know that an *average* session rate is at or about 150kW even in my EVs with a peak rate capability over 300kW. You are correct that other vehicles will definitely offer faster charging times in 2026. We will see what the real-world impact of those improvements will be for a typical driver.
I suspect the average EV driver spends less than 5 hours annually charging at DC fast chargers today. That means the *maximum* time savings is 5 hours over the course of a year if somebody can deliver a 1,000 mile EV. Even if that happens, I will contend that most drivers will not base their buying decision on that five hours. As long as we must stop for our biology, there is naturally allotted time for charging. Beating that time is not advantageous for most drivers. In fact, I have found that super quick DC charging sessions can be less convenient. There have been times when I've I have to stop eating or shopping prematurely to run out to unplug and move my vehicle. We all have different priorities and use cases.
You are right that DC fast charging matters, but I do not agree that the real world consequences of 150kW DCFC (with a decent curve) would be dealbreaker for most drivers.
-Producer Tim
Drive Fly ride go Electic Miss GoElectric
As always, brilliant information about the EV vehicle industry
👍
WELL-INFORMED,Miss GoElectric
Take care,Miss GoElectric
From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧 ⏰️ 11:20AM Good Morning 🙏 🥶
Thanks for commenting.
-Producer Tim
This car is simply amazing, thank you for sharing
We appreciate your enthusiasm. We live in charmed times.
-Producer Tim
When the new Model Y comes to Texas I will have to have one.
Price be damned I am in.
Lets call it the Model Yj.
Your Model Y won't have to travel far from the GigaTexas factory near Austin!
-Producer Tim
Yj?
Exhausted reading through all of the comments! Producer Tim has done an exemplary job of responding in an even-handed, diplomatic, factual and fair way. If YT does not recognized the very high "engagement level" here, I can't improve on that. It may have reached the point where the best response is: "thanks for watching, have a nice day"...
Thanks for your kind words. I generally try to be informative and encouraging of thoughtful discourse. It would be great to have an active and positive comunity here in the comments section weekly.
I have been known to brutally eviscerate toxic commenters. I justify those data-driven takedowns as a form of pruning. I want trolls to feel unsafe while thoughtful viewers feel welcomed and appreciated.
Hopefully there are exactly enough heads on sticks at the gates of this village. Lol
I've been much more wordy this week than most. This show has also had the highest viewership of any episode so far. I wonder if correlation is causation in this case?
-Producer Tim
@ Commenters becoming like a bunch of granola: "what aint fruits and nuts is flakes" 🙄
The Afeela 1 is really missing the mark. 2026 production. With only 150kW charging for 90-103k? Sure it has tech features, will not really be more than a city car. For a road trip it looks to be competitive with the MachE which will have been in the road for years already and is half to a third the cost
Day late and a dollar short (X3), but it has ultrasonic sonar!!
Maybe the California version will be fireproof.
Thanks for commenting.
-Producer Tim
I want to test drive a model Y. The facelift update sounds good.
I tested a model 3 (the trunk is abysmal) and the Ioniq 5, and both were lacking in interior room. The Y looks much better in this regard but I haven't seen one in-person.
trunk is abysmal? it's huge! It's the biggest trunk in a sedan I've ever seen. I went from a Volvo V50 to a Model 3, and the tesla had more storage than the volvo wagon. I mean on top of the main trunk, there is the sub trunk, and the frunk! The only downside is the shape, which is kind of inherent to a sedan. If you want taller, you need a Y.
Miss GoElectric owned a Model Y and liked it very much. As the best selling car in the world, I'm surprised you have not seen one anywhere out and about. We hope you'll update us with your perspective once you have had a test drive. -Producer Tim
@@petersilva037 I've been a hatchback owner... so the sedan style kills it for me.
The Ioniq 5 has more space for backseat passengers than the model Y. But it has less cargo space. Good luck finding the right car.
I just bought a New Rivian R1T, so I subscribed to get the latest EV news. Thanks, Miss GoElectric!
Miss GoElectric also drives an R1T daily. Great truck. Thank you for subscribing!
-Producer Tim
instagram.com/p/CyeAb4mu6yy/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Thanks
Thank you! -Producer Tim
There was a lot happening at CES, looking forward to seeing more coverage!
Our CES segment is a doozie. It will probably be published on our INDUSTRY channel. We encourage you to subscribe there and turn on notifications. It could go live as soon as this evening. www.youtube.com/@missgoelectricindustry
-Producer Tim
We're keeping our next EV purchase around $60K. This considering how much depreciation we're willing to take. BTW: power has been out for 3 days here due to the fires and we have made available our Solar / power wall 48 AMP and 40 AMP EV chargers available to neighbors. Many nurses in the neighborhood and they need to make it to work and back.
Thank you for sharing your intent and story. -Producer Tim
Gm, Ty Miss GoElectric
GM
-Producer Tim
I think that the Afeela would need to be priced about half of it's $103K price to be competitive. But since they will have a showroom in nearby Fremont, I will go over there to check it out some time soon.
That list of features is much longer than any vehicle we've seen with a sub $70k price tag. We hope you'll report back with your findings. -Producer Tim
@@MissGoElectric Yeah, the Afeela should be a hit for wealthy, early adopter, tech hungry, EV buyers. I'll check out their local showroom. And I look forward to seeing your reviews.
Uphill skis would be great in areas with no lifts, like cross country.
That is exactly the function. Subscribe to www.youtube.com/@missgoelectricridereviews (one of our other channels) if you'd like to see the electric assist ski demonstration. -Producer Tim
Lack of specifications nullifies all excitement with Honda’s announcement of Saloon, SUV, or Afeela. The most important criteria for an EV - range, charging speed, & battery life were conspicuous by absence. There’s no value proposition in other features when primary functionality is non-competitive.
Afeela. 150kW charging in 2026 for 90k is a nonstarter. Ad you said if the base functions are not there all the tech in the world does not matter
@ Robert, yes a few specs leaked out at CES, but not enough. Agree, 150kW charging was good for 2016, not 2026. Too little, too late, for too much money.
We can expect the Saloon to have similar specifications to Afeela which shares a platform. Next year we will see if Sony can succeed in introducing new buyers to EVs.
9 out of 10 new car buyers in the US choose to purchase a combustion automobile in 2024. That is a lot of opportunity.
Remember, most EVs today drop below 150kW for 70% of a given charging session. My Cybertruck is capable of charging at 350kW. My 2016 Model S is limited to 120kW. I've taken both cars on identical road trips and found that real world charge sessions are within five minutes duration. The efficiency of a sedan compared to a truck or SUV is a factor along with the curve.
More importantly, the average EV driver uses DC fast chargers 3-5 days per year. DC charging rates only matter on those days to drivers who are tracking the data. Perhaps a 30-60 minute annual time savings is not a practical deciding factor for most buyers.
-Producer Tim
@@MissGoElectric Sorry Producer Tim. The Out of Spec I90 Surge showed just how much charging performance matters. The older Model S, limits to 120kW took 17 HOURS longer on a cross country drive. 150kW might have been fine for a premium car introduced 5-10 years ago, but times are changing.
If Honda wants Taycan or Lucid money for a car, it needs to deliver those types of charging sessions. My Ioniq 6 is half the low end if the price mentioned, with peak charging at 240kW and holding above 150 until 70% (meaning dropped below 150 for only the top 30% of charge)
Yes, most people are not traveling out of their home city often, but if you do make 3-5 trips a year, the charging speed does matter, and 'new tech cars' that are not showcasing the advancments in charging speed do nothing to help with the adoption of EVs.
I have briefly talked with MachE owners who were at a charger when I arrived and were shocked to see my little Hyundai suck down the juice the way it can. 15-70% in the time some cars go from 55-75%.
@Robert Years before Kyle did it, Miss GoElectric won a coast-to-coast EV rally called Charge Across America which aired on prime time National Television (NBC Sports).
www.chargeacrossamerica.com/#watch
MGE and I have hundreds of thousands of miles under our belts driving all over North America in over a dozen EVs. In 2024 we put on about 50,000 miles driving our Cybertruck, R1T, and Model S from Michigan to Florida, Michigan to Tennessee, and Michigan to Wisconsin many many times.
We have a firsthand understanding of the real world affects DC charging speeds and curves. I'm not claiming that 150kW is *premium* or class leading. I am claiming that most regular people will not notice or care.
Kyle took MGE and I out to dinner along with several other EV personalities in Las Vegas a few nights ago. We talked a little about the Surge with he and Jordan, but I haven't watched it. A 17hr deficit for the Model S over the course of 3,000+ miles would be attributable to at least 15-20 individual sessions. The 17hr deficit will most certainly be attributable to MANY factors including arrival SoC, average charging rate, driver behavior (efficiency), average vehicle speed, battery capacity, route and site selection, preconditioning losses, and HVAC. An early Tesla with resistive heating systems will not be competitive with today's heat-pump EVs even with identical charging capabilities and battery capacities.
Total charge time is a function of real world averaged kW input over the course of a session, battery size, *AND* average consumption.
As you've stated, your EV6 (which has a decent curve) holds above 150kW, but not by much. We do not know if the Afeela 1 holds 150kW for the full duration. If it does have a nice flat curve at the top end, the total charge time for a session would be very very close to a vehicle which holds 170kW then dips below 100kW during the final quarter.
The bottom line is that 150kW is not particularly meaningful. If a typical DC charging session is 15 minutes or 30 minutes...exposure to the experience is minimal for most drivers.
-Producer Tim
PS: Fun fact, OOS invited MGE to participate in the surge. There was no prize and it was a long time commitment. We passed on the opportunity.
I think the new Honda electric looks might grow on me while the Afeela is a little dull and its front end looks like something Saturn might have done. I agree with most of the other commenters, the pricing is a problem.
Thank you for sharing your opinions. -Producer Tim
Thanks. Next week can you cover Mercedes and VW getting access to Tesla chargers this year? Thx.
Hi Dave.
Last year we reported about every automaker which made a deal for NACS support and their pecking order.
Neither Mercedes Benz nor Volkswagen vehicles can currently charge at Tesla Superchargers.
When those brands are activated on the network, we will report about it as we've done with all other NACS-compatible OEMS.
Thanks for watching!
-Producer Tim
What’s with all the CCS chargers on display at CES. Did they not get the memo that NACS is the standard now?
Most of the charging hardware we saw offered NACS. -Producer Tim
I would be interested in seeing more on Telo motors small truck EV. It looks promising and the US needs a smaller reasonably affordable EV let alone an EV truck. The Donut Lab hubless EV motor line also should be looked at and reviewed. Very interesting design with some advantages plus a complete ecosystem of software hardware motors and controllers for trucks cars scooters and drones.
When Telo enters production we'll cover that.
We covered Donut two years ago:
ruclips.net/video/8mAgBqyq2bU/видео.htmlsi=uB_VhOr2NgwNKVIm&t=400
They had an exhibit at CES and we did stop by. That footage will probably appear in our CES 2025 coverage at www.youtube.com/@MissGoElectricIndustry
-Producer Tim
We have been buying Chinese products for many many years at Walmart this pushing and shoving back-and-forth about different countries origin of products, batteries, materials of batteries I guess some people find it useful, but I really don’t see any point in it. if one country wants to harm another they’ll find a way to do it. Does this country think it can protect itself by little steps? We live in a great place to live. We have a great place to live here, but I agree with those who feel like it’s very insignificant to think you’re going to accomplish anything by blocking Chinese battery factories just don’t make sense. I personally have friends in many countries and don’t hold one country above another or feel like that there should be any prioritizing one country over another! so my views are quite different from the general public, but I certainly enjoy keeping up with electric vehicles and the progress they make and I own six electric vehicles so enjoyable to drive ,And I appreciate all your hard work, keeping up with the news and keeping us informed of what’s going on thank you so very much!
Thank you for joining us for this show and for sharing your perspective. We hope you'll subscribe to our Industry channel for some very cool updates from CES which should be published within 48hrs.
www.youtube.com/@missgoelectricindustry
-Producer Tim
The Tesla model Y was not the top selling model in 2024. It finished 2nd to the
Corolla by about 30k vehicles.
Outlets which have reported global figures are using an estimate for the Model Y. Tesla has not yet confirmed Model Y sales. They've only offered Y+3 combined figures.
If Toyota has a model with better sales, it will be the RAV4. We'll probably learn Model Y figures when Tesla reports earnings.
-Producer Tim
www.motor1.com/features/716773/best-selling-cars-2024/
@MissGoElectric I stand corrected. 🙂
A few commenters challenge our information each week. It is a great opportunity to prove our credibility in a public way. Lots of people read these comments.
We are lucky to have a sophisticated audience of commenters like you. We know viewers will comment if they feel dissonance and it motivates us to do our very best to tighten each statement. We always post links to source material in the video description.
Thank you for watching and for your thoughtful contribution. -Producer Tim
I think that EV makers are still focused on the smaller part of the market that wants and can afford a luxury car. The basic purpose of a car is to take people from A to B. A lot of the electronic features really are cheap to add but are priced high. This seems to be where the profit margin of the EV makers is and not in the basics of a car. This is also why they tend to be luxury SUVs.
I think that it is largely true that you can't be a company in China without some connection to their military. This isn't a "6 degrees of Kevin Bacon" sort of thing. If you are a company in China and you make toothbrushes, the chinese military will be buying toothbrushes from you and likely contracting details of the color and shape etc.
Great points, Ken.
-Producer Tim
thanks miss go.. here is an FYI
Trees, like humans, require clean air and water for strength/ to survive. Gasoline/OIl displaces water in the air and on the ground, replacing them with toxins , further weakening the plants, and humans’, defense mechanisms . Thus the fires and pandemics. This is just the beginning. . L.A California, has 16 lane freeways and smog alerts going back to the 1960’s, they travel like barbarians. Many are still using the old rotary phone of transportation ,the dirty old ICE vehicle.
Thanks for tuning in! -Producer Tim
I get kick out of your description of honda's cars as potentially bold. If you look at it from behind the A pillar, it is just a box. Okay, it is a box with a slopeing hood. That said the slope in the front, and slight slope in the rear probably give it a little better aerodynamic flow, though i doubt its that much help.
Do you think other viewers would also describe the Honda Saloon as a "box"? Do you think the design is conventional and common or do you think it is bold and different? Would the Honda 0 designs blend in at an intersection? -Producer Tim
This episode is a lot of stuff I look forward to never owning due to costs 😮😊
Two affordable EVs are expected for the US market in 2025. One is an unseen model from Tesla and the other is a new Chevy Bolt which will be produced in Mexico.
I think the best value to be had these days is used EVs. Incredible deals can be found on preowned Mercedes EQS, BMW iX, Polestar2, F150 Lightning, and the entire Tesla lineup.
-Producer Tim
Afeela's price is hot!
The web site offers a close up look at the materials and features: www.shm-afeela.com/en/product/afeela1/
-Producer Tim
6:58 What is the point of having dedicated screens for side mirrors... *and* side mirrors ? This seems a bit "over-designed".
Government regulations, fixed in stone.
Aerodynamics and regulations yield that solution set. We suspect that the product will not have sideview mirrors in most of the rest of the world, which permits cameras alone. -Producer Tim
Why’ll I would never buy a Tesla, the new Model Y is a much improvement.
Thank you for sharing your feedback about the Model Y refresh. -Producer Tim
The EV I buy MUST be able to back up my home's electrical system....period. Won't buy if the battery isn't 2 way
Bidirectional charging is wonderful. Our Cybertruck has powered our studio using the PowerShare & Gateway3V when the grid goes down. We work in a rural area with frequent outages and always make sure the truck is plugged in during storms and other severe weather. The building can be powered by the truck for about one week based on our consumption.
Miss GoElectric primarily drives a Rivian R1T. The company's CEO has indicated that all of the vehicles are capable of (V2H) bidirectional power, but the hardware is not yet available. Ford and GM already offer hardware solutions for their pickup trucks. We love the idea of grid stabilization as a consequence of EV adoption. -Producer Tim
$$$$$
@rp
You bet. Society saves money when we decentralize energy distribution. The grid can be stabilized by V2G technology and owners can earn money as we've seen with Virtual Power Plant operations in Texas and California.
We can also use V2H systems to enable equipped homes can go off grid when demand and prices are high. The vehicles can be recharged when demand is low. This arbitrage opportunity can be lucrative.
-Producer Tim
I think I've heard that SCE lowered their payback twice, which could ruin someone's grid tie calculations. That's why I'm thinking off-grid backyard supplemental. Vehicle to whatever systems are far too expensive so far, home battery is always home
@rp V2G might not be the best bet for everyone. It is not even an option where we live.
V2H affords the freedom of disconnecting when rates are high and topping up when they are low. Of course, V2H is also wonderful for remaining powered up when the grid goes down.
We have 9kWh of stationary energy storage for crucial building subsystems such as the boiler, refrigerator, and well pump. The Cybertruck provides another 123kWh of long-term backup power at 60A 240v. That is almost 10 Powerwall's worth of energy. 10 Powerwalls would cost about $120,000 to install. The Powerwalls can't do double duty driving us through a river or pulling a 35,000 sled at a tractor-pull like Cybertruck can.
We suspect that V2H will be a typical EV feature within the next two or three years.
-Producer Tim
Small steps forward daily
Thats the ticket! -Producer Tim
The Afeela seems like a little too late to market for such a vehicle given that Tesla, Lucid, Mercedes, etc. have options in the expensive vehicle market.
When I think about the people I know, none seem like an obvious buyer for Afeela. Perhaps Sony has some unannounced tricks up their sleeve?
-Producer Tim
Nothing about Aptera at CES?
We saw Aptera there. Not much has changed since they unveiled the gamma prototype next to our Fully Charged Show booth two years ago. We are skeptical of the company's management and fundraising tactics. When they begin deliveries to non-investor customers we will report on them again. -Producer Tim
They are lying grifters. Are you an Aptera "Griftee"?
No, it makes no sense to block CATL
Thank you for sharing your opinion.
-Producer Tim
Gov't: you can't have nice things. CATL batteries could be spying on us!
It makes sense if you know Musk is blocking every competitor.
@@nthused TRUMP WON!!!!!!Hahahahahaha cry me a river.
@NTH Tesla actually buys cells from CATL because they have the best pricing in the world. Elon Musk is not in any way associated with the DOD. There is no reason for him to limit his own supply. -Producer Tim
Is it true Audi E-Tron owner's are suing Audi? as their vehicle's are Fire risks keep to Ice cars
Class action lawsuits happen every day. Usually they are a money grab for a law firm with very few other benefactors. We don't generally cover lawsuits. -Producer Tim
Afeela is Lucid without any of the charging or range performance. Oh goody!
When it rolled out on stage, there was no driver inside. Perhaps Afeela will have an autonomy advantage over Lucid. Afeela might also offer higher quality materials and a superior entertainment experience. The Lucid product line has poorly performing driver assistance features. -Producer Tim
Why did Tesla, Lucid and now Sony start with a sedan? People are buying compact SUVs.
Sedans can be a good starting point for new high end automotive brands.
There are many competitors making crossovers and SUVs in high volume at low prices. All three OEMs which you mentioned entered a high-margin luxury segment with *limited competition*.
The aerodynamics of a sedan accommodate higher range with less battery capacity. Batteries are the most expensive component.
Sedans can accommodate more passengers per unit of mass. Less mass means less expensive supporting subsystems including suspension and propulsion.
Production and distribution volumes are usually restricted by supply chain constraints, manufacturing limitations, and limited distribution locations when a brand is new. That means there is no immediate advantage to addressing a larger market.
-Producer Tim
SUVs are for getting groceries and soccer moms. Sedans are flagships for the childless with money to burn.
they probably started designing it back when sedans were more popular.... like 15 years ago lol
Look at it this way. If you at least partner with CATL (acknowledge leader in batteries) commercially we might be able to gain technology that can make the USA self sufficient in batteries. However, engaging, as a contractor, to the military often involves access to defense assets that you would rather not give to an adversary. Put this another way, had they known, would HAMAS have knowingly have bought Pagers manufactured by Israel?
Pagers are connected digital devices. Battery cells are analog equipment which is not connected to any kind of communication network.
A battery cell is a packaged combination of metals and other inert material.
Buying and using battery cells does not involve the transfer of any information to the manufacturer. Buyers write CATL a check and pallet of cells shows up.
Packaging cells into modules, and packs, battery management software/hardware, and energizing the cells is handled by US automakers.
As we reported last week and several other times on this show, CATL does make platforms and other advanced systems including swapping stations. To our knowledge, none of that IP has buyers in the USA. Some might suggest this designation was lobbied for by automotive incumbents to ensure that fact remains true.
-Producer Tim
Afeela appears to be loaded with electronic distractions. It's a rolling home theater that's way expensive for a brand that many people will ask 'who?'
That is Sony's angle. They are building a vehicle which drives itself in order to monetize the occupant's newfound idle time. The screens feature Sony film, television, and gaming content. Sony will sell add space. They'll sell user data gathered by the vehicle and the AI assistant.
Much like the PlayStation hardware...the Honda EV is a content platform to Sony. -Producer Tim
I was expecting the Sony EV to include Playstation compatibly, not HDMI ports.
We overheard a Sony spokesperson telling customers that PS5 is built in, but we could not find any written proof on Sony press or marketing materials. We choose not to report it for that reason, but it might be true. In 2026, maybe itbe a PS6?
-Producer Tim
It would make total sense to include one.
The Honda EVs will be to expensive for the mass market
Afeela1 is definitely a luxury vehicle and Afeela is a luxury brand.
We do not yet have any insight regarding the price point for the Honda 0 Saloon or SUV. We do not consider Honda 0 to be a luxury brand, but it does appear to be a premium brand. -Producer Tim
Afeela will be to expensive for what you get.
Good point. -Producer Tim
My gut says Juniper gives MY sales no bump, its putting lipstick on a pig. Interior too minimalistic for the price. The changes are for margin.
A pig? Bruce...are you aware that the Model Y has been the best selling car on earth for two years? It is not just the best selling EV in the US...it is the best selling CAR in the WORLD. Your opinion is valid, but this is a sophisticated audience and a measured approach is wise.
As they've done for 17 years, Tesla continuously improves the product. They add functionality, improve safety, increase the feature set, and they do so while removing parts and decreasing the cost of goods sold. We pointed out some of those improvements in this video based on the limited information available. -Producer Tim
@@MissGoElectric Congrats Tim, I would have answered as Dan Aykroyd's "Point - Counterpoint" character on the original SNL: Bruce, you ignorant slu..."
It’s too expensive and doesn’t look like a range topping luxury model it wants to be
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the Afeela 1. -Producer Tim
The batteries are not smart but what about a situation like the exploding pagers in Gaza and elsewhere in the Middle East?
Smart and connected communications enabled the pager situation. Battery cells pose no threat. It's just a roll of metals in a canister.
-Producer Tim
@@MissGoElectric Cells are no threat but modules may be. I wonder if regulators are smart enough for that
The agreements we've seen US manufacturers are for cells only with modules, packs, and BMS work done by US companies. -Producer Tim
Rather than focusing on higher technology, AI and driver autonomy, why don't EV makers focus on bringing very affordable and practical EVs? These companies are still living in a bubble.
Affordability requires two things...cheaper battery cells and SCALE. As we have reported, large Chinese automakers are already selling $9,000 to the rest of the world. The US Government has taken actions to prohibit those vehicles from entering our market.
GM and Tesla both have affordable new EVs coming to market this year. I'd go so far as to say no other automaker in the USA has the capability to compete down-market. -Producer Tim
Equinox EV, done
Equinox EV is about the same price as the Volvo XC30 and Tesla Model Y with pricing from about $35k-$50k. We know that more affordable models are coming this year from GM and Tesla. We expect sub-$30k MSRSP. -Producer Tim
That MY front camera will be full of dirt and salt in 5 minutes of driving in New York.
My Cybertruck has the same low additional camera. Here in Michigan we also have salt and snow. That is why the camera has it's own washer fluid spout.
Price adjustments are calculated and deliberate. Are there some new cost additive policies in Australia? If not, Tesla has raised the price intentionally... reducing demand to match supply.
-Producer Tim
@@MissGoElectric Why down there? Watching for cats?
Tesla's have one camera in front up high behind the rearview mirror. They have another down low. Redundancy is helpful to confirm distances and when driving directly into low sunlight. The lower camera is very important in close-quarters situations such as garages. -Producer Tim
Not supporting bad actors & protecting supplies is important but also climate change can't wait.
Well said. It is not a simple situation. EVs also deliver a higher standard of living. EVs also enable personal transportation powered completely by *domestic* energy which improves national security and economic stability. EVs are statistically safer and are less likely to catch fire. EVs do not pollute at the tailpipe which has enormous public health implications for those who live and work along roadways.
Even when cells are sourced from foreign countries, the valuable materials contained within those cells become a *domestic resource*. Future EV batteries will be created from metals mined from old battery packs. The circular economy enables a variety of prosperity which our nation has never known.
These concepts are not immediately evident to many policymakers. Unfortunately, the short-sighted structure of our corporations creates a motive to engage in lobbying and other actions which benefit incumbents this quarter at the long term expense of our nation. We see it in energy, healthcare, and automotive sectors.
There must be some way Miss GoElectric can participate in improving public education around these matters. Thank you for engaging here in the comments.
-Producer Tim
Honda gave up their leader title when they started using CVT transmissions.
Killed their brand with one decision.
We are happy to see many new Honda vehicles coming from Ohio in 2026.
Everything will even out when next-generation battery technology persuades the 90% of American drivers who choose internal combustion to go electric. Automakers with EV expertise will inherit the sector
We're never going to see a low-cost EV from a big manufacturer, are we?
New Bolt EV this year. At least one new (unseen) more affordable model from Tesla this year.
-Producer Tim
honda's zero line will be a dud. No one will buy this. Poorly perportioned vehicle.
The Saloon has at least one buyer. I'll probably get one. -Producer Tim
PS: I've had a bunch of conventionally beautiful cars but I do like the weird stuff. I've owned and loved an Aztek, Toyota Van, Saturn SW2, Toyota Camry Wagon, 2nd gen Prius, BMW CE-04, and Cybertruck. -Producer Tim
@@MissGoElectric You're not alone Tim. I actually really like the styling of both 0 series models and depending on price I too would be interested in owning the Saloon. Though Honda pricing in Canada for anything mildly electrified is ++$$$$ so affordability is doubtful.
Honda, like most Japanese, are very stubborn. So... having made these decisions and choices, they will spend a lot of energy and $$$ to make their EV cars come to production. This will guaranty that in 3-4 years they will suffer a crippling, perhaps unrecoverable, financial loss.
Sound premise. Plausible prediction. -Producer Tim
Not feeling the Afeela.
Care to elaborate? -Producer Tim
The styling isn't good.
I've heard others remark that it is a very conservative aesthetic. Thanks for sharing your opinion. -Producer Tim
I’ve come to realize that the best EV’s in the world are being built in China.🇨🇳
Most are built on heavy, clunky multi purpose steel frames. Cheap at first, but eventually will be expensive if allowed to dominate the domestic market.
In many regards American automaker Tesla is dominant. There are certain categories and metrics which are dominated by Chinese automakers. If I were making a list of the top 10 EV in the world, many of them would be Chinese. Which is your favorite? -Producer Tim
@@MissGoElectric
I live in Southern California and have three Teslas. I haven’t owned a gas vehicle in 10 years.
There are many of us in these comments with at least a decade of EV only driving. Hopefully we'll continue to improve our understanding in order to become a resource for those who might be considering a switch to EV.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
-Producer Tim
@
I’ve been on a one man EV education crusade for years now.
Even before I owned one. Thank you for replying. I really enjoy this channel. Looking forward to future content. ❤️
So UAW torpedoed the Ford battery plant back in September of '23? We're talking a battery plant IN the Untied States, creating jobs for American workers. A Ford plant, btw, using CATL licensed tech.. but a FORD plant. Not a CATL plant!! The profits are going to an American company.
2:12 "the representatives responsible for the policy offensive against CATL aim to introduce enough uncertainty to deter buyers like Ford from moving ahead with supply agreements. A great deal of resources have been applied towards ensuring this story is amplified in order to sway public opinion about CATL."
Great point.
There is a fine line between a true threat to US national security and economic protectionism. Some might suggest that a battery cell is not high technology with credible weaponization opportunities.
"If ya can't beat em, Cheat 'em"? "If ya can't clock 'em, block 'em"?
-Producer Tim
Love this channel! As great as Tesla's cars are, Canadians are making sure that they are last on the list of considerations. Elon Musk is viciously attacking Canada for being solidly left leaning with it's amazing worker's rights, paid immediate vacation leave, paid maternity and paternity leave and a lot more including free healthcare. Having to admit to your friends you bought a Tesla is shameful. Keep up the great work - the faster we electrify the better!
We understand that some car buyers evaluate vehicles based on political association instead of capability, features, or value. Those buyers have about 20 other EV brands available in Canada to choose from. Its great to have variety in the marketplace and we look forward to an even more open market one day. Thank you for joining us and we look forward to your comments on future episodes. -Producer Tim
@@MissGoElectric Everybody I know wants electric. It's devastating seeing this former Canadian attacking the country where he grew up.
Elon was born and raised in South Africa and visited Canada occasionally because his mother's family is from Canada. He lived in Canada for about two years from age 17-19 and has lived in the United States for the last 35 years. His first wife Justine was indeed Canadian and Elon did get citizenship through his mother. He is also a citizen of South Africa and the USA.
I have read many policy critiques and personal attacks on specific individuals in leadership positions. I haven't seen any attacks on Canada as a nation by any automotive leaders. Where can I find published attacks on Canada? -Producer Tim
@@MissGoElectric Elon Musk has brutally attacked and boosted Trump's attacks on Canada. This entire country is in turmoil facing economic devastation. It's inconceivable that you would not be aware of that. Everybody knows that Canadian workers' rights are stellar and that healthcare is free and of no cost to an employer, and that is one of the key components of why companies set up shop here. And thank you for letting me know his stay in Canada was not as long as I thought - I feel a little less ashamed of him now.
@david I follow many EV leaders on social media web sites. I've been unable to find an attack by any of them on the nation of Canada. Can you share a link to one instance so that I can understand your point of view with greater clarity?
-Producer Tim
The Afeela1 is laughable. Lucid bests it in every way for a similar price point. If the brilliant sedans Lucid manufactures aren't profitable, why would Honda even bother with that segment? You could predict this failure with 2 brain cells.
Which brand has better recognition with the 90% of US car buyers who currently choose to purchase combustion vehicles: Sony or Lucid?
Failure is among the possible futures, but I wouldn't completely write off the draw of superior materials, driver assistance, entertainment, and name recognition.
-Producer Tim
@@MissGoElectric I think that's a complete misunderstanding of the EV consumer base and the market in general. Luxury sedans are already a very weak segment in America and people spending that much money on an EV sedan aren't persuaded by a Honda badge. EV consumers tend to do their research and understand how badly the Japanese manufacturers have bungled the transition. The stats on this joint venture with Sony aren't even in the realm of competitive in this price range. You could bet the farm on my prediction and not lose a second of sleep.
@Ken You make a great point about the characteristics of EV buyers to this point. The remaining 90% are not like the first 10%.
MGE and I are consultants. Most of the work we do is not made public or associated with the Miss GoElectric brand. We help automakers launch new products and we educate their teams. We've done it for most of the big players for about 20 years...focused on EVs since 2012. In that work we have seen this correlation error play out time and time again.
Automakers seem to be doing their best to appeal to early adopters and tech-forward buyers with their EVs. In my view, it is too late for that. The winners will not be the ones fighting for the folks who have already test driven a Tesla. The winners will be those who appeal to the 200 million Americans who have never even sat in an EV. Scout gets it. We explained that in this detailed piece:
ruclips.net/video/aM2Z56dmP-Q/видео.html
-Producer Tim
Some advice for Honda and other car makers: do NOT copy Tesla. Features such as pedestrian killer front ends, drive by wire, electronic doors, minimalist interiors, wacky designs trying to look like the future, and all controls through a central touch screen are all huge mistakes and will be the end of the brand. Do your own research and target the middle man, not first adopter tech geeks with no common sense.
There is room in the marketplace for many approaches. Each brand is wise to determine how best they can attract the 9 of 10 American car buyers who have rejected EVs so far.
That said, Tesla does have the highest brand loyalty of any automaker which does business in the USA.
The Model Y sells more than Toyota RAV4 and Corolla which have dominated passenger cars for years. Tesla builds the best selling car in the USA and on planet Earth.
There are 20 EV brands which compete with Tesla in America. When all of their sales are combined, they equal Tesla's sales figure.
Perhaps it would be wise to understand what Tesla is doing to dominate their competitors handily rather than writing them off completely.
-Producer Tim
@@MissGoElectric Thanks Tim for your insights. I think it is fair to say though, that not one of the features mentioned has contributed to Tesla's success, possibly the exact opposite. Even Tesla have started to back-track on their minimalism by putting stalks back into the new Model Y. Tesla's success lies elsewhere in first to market, focus on automated and efficient manufacturing, oversell through false promises, their extensive use of influencers and pumpers, and their whole of service offering with the supercharger network.
@moto
Tesla's interior minimalism persists:
The first four Tesla models all had a stalk for a decade. Today no Tesla available in the USA has a stalk. Perhaps in the future a revised Model Y will include as they've done in China. Even with a stalk, are you aware of a brand selling in the USA which has a more spartan interior? It is a stylistic choice and it is a cost-efficacy choice. The brand iterates quickly and responds to local market demand. We saw that with the brief period of time in which yolk steering was standard on X and S. The buyers preferred steering wheels, so they reverted. Being nimble and giving people what they want seems like a pretty good way to run a business, doesn't it?
Tesla was NOT first to market with EVs:
GM was the first OEM to market with an EV in the USA. Their EV1 went into production in 1996. Tesla built a few of the low volume Lotus retrofit called the Roadster in 2008. Nissan was first with a *mass* market EV in 2009. Mitsubishi iMiev hit the same year. Ford also Tesla to market with the 2011 the mass-market Ford Focus Electric. Finally in 2012, Tesla's first original mass market vehicle (Model S) began selling.
Overselling:
If Tesla has remained on top by overselling and delivering false promises for 17 years, we'd have seen massive dissatisfaction and defection. As I mentioned in the previous message, Tesla has the highest customer loyalty of any automaker. Customers like scheduling service though the app and having it done in their driveway. They like vehicles which receive automatic updates and improve significantly every year. Customers want to drive the safest vehicles available.
Influencers and Pumpers:
Did you Tesla does not have a marketing budget for endorsees? They have none. They don't give cars to celebrities (never have) and they do not run commercials on TV. If you would like to see money buying influence, look to all of the other automakers. They spent at least $12 billion in 2024 buying marketing of various forms.
www.forbes.com/sites/edgarsten/2024/02/12/auto-industry-co-op-ad-spending-rises-as-inventories-grow/
Disregarding their product and methodologies has not worked out very well for competitors. Tesla now has a higher market capitalization than its top 35 automaker competitors combined. Tesla has probably made more millionaires than any other company in human history due to its unusually high retail-investor percentage. Isn't that a triumph for common man?
www.newsweek.com/elon-musk-tesla-worth-more-35-next-biggest-automakers-combined-2006586
-Producer Tim
Tim, minimalism is a stylistic choice as you say, not a practical one. Tesla wont attract the regular car buyer with that approach. Most consumers like proper instrument clusters and physical controls. And that is my point. Tesla found an inroad with early adopters, but that is not what is required now, and manufacturers need to be careful not to follow Tesla into the same dead end. I do agree that OTA updates and continuous improvements are helpful features that other manufacturers could learn from.
Regarding the oversell, influencers and pumpers, Tesla use their stock pumpers to promote the product. I have no idea how they are financially rewarded for this, possible just through promotion from Twitter or the stock value itself. But worth noting Tesla is one of the most over priced (P/E) of all stocks, and likely due for a correction in 2025 as "the massive dissatisfaction and defection" finally pops, which may have already started.
So far, Tesla has attracted over 6 million regular car buyers worldwide. We both agree that there are billions more consumers to persuade. Many will go EV based on a totally different set of features and factors.
Interior minimalism is the consequence of a greatly reduced parts count. That aesthetic approach is borne of necessity as Tesla could not find suppliers for hundreds of sub-assemblies and switchgear elements in the early days.
As with most effective engineering, the most elegant machine is the one which gets the job done with the fewest components. Delete parts until it doesn't work, then add a few back until its working well. Everybody wins with that approach. Of course, there is always a market for brands like Scout and GMC to add lots of tactile elements (at great expense) for those buyers who are willing to pay extra for more parts. We know that younger buyers tend not to prefer buttons and knobs. Older buyers who like buttons and knobs probably won't buy many more vehicles...especially considering the unprecedented longevity of today's EVs.
Am I understanding it correctly that you predict Tesla's sector leading customer loyalty will suddenly fall from 17 years at around 70% to something below the industry average of 50% in 2025?
I can tell you that personally my loyalty is higher today than my previous 9 years of ownership because of the standard-of-living upgrade made possible by recent supervised Full Self Driving advancements. I have driven hundreds of makes/models from bargain basement to McLaren, Rolls Royce, and Astron Martin. I cannot imagine daily driving any vehicle without FSD. Don't you think others will feel similarly about that feature which is only available from Tesla?
My uncle in his 80s purchased a brand new Model 3 last week because his reaction time and vision is not as good as it used to be. He feels safer supervising his Tesla FSD compared to driving on his own. If unsupervised FSD goes live in 2025, a huge total addressable market will open up to automobiles for the first time. Those with disabilities, old age, and the infirm will suddenly be able to own an automobile and experience newfound freedom.
Your observation about Tesla stock price being overvalued is an interesting one. Tesla stock is worth less now than it was back in November of 2021. In that time Tesla has opened two more global factories, introduced two new models, and quadrupled their production. They've also moved very close to unsupervised FSD, expanded the energy business by an order of magnitude, and plan to integrate Grok AI this quarter. The company is also developing the Optimus robot and next-generation DoJo chip which could have them squarely competing with Nvidia/TSMC as well as AmazonWebServices. Don't you agree that the company has made quite a bit of progress considering the reduction in valuation?
Thanks for sharing your perspective. It is always fascinating to learn how others perceive EV brands and based on what information. -Producer Tim
Musk’s refusal to use more advanced navigation hardware is going to hurt sales and driver satisfaction. Everyone else is using LIDAR and radar. Our Model 3 is so bad we don’t use self driving anymore.
Have you used a Tesla with hardware 4?
Miss GoElectric and I rarely drive locally. Our Cybertruck does all of the driving from our driveway to our destination and back including parking.
Human drivers have only two cameras (eyes) on a high-latency gimbal (head/neck). Tesla vehicles have 8-9 cameras which do not blink and much greater photonic sensitivity than an eyeball. Tesla vehicles now listen to their environments reacting to sirens and horns. All competing systems stop working when the vehicle ventures outside of a subset of mapped areas. Teslas can drive anywhere including places where no Tesla has ever been.
Here is a video of a Tesla driving around in New York City for 40 minutes without requiring any human input.
ruclips.net/video/5oP0Zp7PCdQ/видео.html
Are you sure it is necessary for an autonomous vehicle to have $5,000-$10,000 worth of additional sensors?
Remember, the enormous stealth bomber appears to be the size of a marble to advanced radars. Dense snowfall and fog can appear as a brick wall to advanced LiDar. The problem comes about when various sensors disagree about environmental factors and objects. The reason we've only seen Waymo deploy in fair weather environments including SF, LA, Austin, Miami, and Atlanta is that they do not work well in snow, dirt roads, and tight roads like we see in the northeast and throughout Europe.
I live on a dirt road in Michigan. My vehicle has no problem dealing with unmarked pathways, icy surfaces, snowfall, and slush slopping up.
Last week the CEOs of Google (Waymo) and Nvidia (DRIVE) each confirmed in interviews that Tesla is the global leader. Chinese EV giant XPeng has recently confirmed that they are ditching LiDAR and switching to a vision-only approach. Tier 1 auto supplier Bosch has also abandoned LiDAR for their self-driving systems.
-Producer Tim
@ Whatever is in our 2021 M3 is what we use. Stating Musk has improved on human eyes doesn’t mean a whole bunch. Radar was invented to spot objects much further away than any eye or camera can see. And, in rain, sleet, fog and snow. Same with LIDAR. Sure, nothing is yet perfect but I feel a combination of cameras and more advanced tech gets us pretty close. Tesla isn’t the only manufacturer now that can self drive on un-mapped roads. But, probably the only one that go from your driveway to a parking lot 100 miles away. Enjoy your content, keep it up.
@tone Ah...yes you are right that your HW3 equipped Model 3 does not deliver an optimal experience. Tesla has committed to upgrading all of those vehicles free of charge if they determine that HW3 is incapable of handling optimized *unsupervised* FSD.
What other makes/models available in the USA allows hands-off driving on unmapped roads including surface streets?
Thanks for watching!
-Producer Tim
PS: Here is a recent extended video of HW4 enabled Tesla driving at night in the rain:
ruclips.net/video/Jdbk0v9z2J8/видео.html
@@MissGoElectric The Hyundai Ioniq 5 and 6. 2024 and up have the later hardware. I'll give those vids a watch, thanks for sharing.
@tone I'm a certified Genesis Academy instructor and I've visited about 100 Hyundai Group Dealerships training thousands of salespeople on Hyundai Group driver assistance systems. I've conducted at least 100 hands-off driving demonstrations and have personally driven with the Hyundai suite for about 10,000 miles.
I have read through the specifications of the 2025 Ioniq Driver Assistance Suite systems to see if there have been fundamental improvements since my last experience in Genesis. It appears as if the new Ioniq is only equipped with HDA2 and smart cruise control. It can keep a driver in a lane, but it doesn't take the driver to a destination or handle navigation through city streets.
Driver Assistance features are explained starting on page 367
owners.hyundaiusa.com/content/dam/hyundai/us/myhyundai/manuals/glovebox-manual/2025/ioniq-5/NE1a-2025-en_US-2C.pdf
If you have access to Hyundai (non-Waymo) self-driving video please share it. It would be wonderful to learn more.
We frequently get into our Cybertruck, push a button, and do nothing until it has parked at the destination in the next down or even hundreds of miles away in another state or county. Hands are not required to touch the steering wheel. To my knowledge, no other automobile in America offers that supervised full self driving capability. We've had a lot of experience in Waymo and Cruise (RIP) vehicles. Waymo is was wonderful, but limited to a confined space. Waymo vehicles are not available for purchase by consumers and do rely on human beings who remotely oversee and direct vehicle behavior. We've had them patch in when a vagrant jumped on the hood of our vehicle.
-Producer Tim
The CATL story should not have been editorialised in this fashion. It is beyond your competence. It does not matter whether a particular product can be used to damage the citizens of the United States. If we have determined that the firm itself are in the thrall of the Chinese government, we should take action as we did. This action is the first in a progression of steps, the first warning shot.
George, you have no idea where our competence ends.
That said, we appreciate your having expressed your view that CATL is actually involved with military operations and that CATL cells should not be used to contain energy for any military operations.
We welcome all points of view when expressed thoughtfully and respectfully.
-Producer Tim
I like that they state their opinion as opinion. Others may hide it within what they call news.
Miss GoElectric delivered facts and economic law. Reduced competition does drive up prices. High prices reduce demand. Reduced demand equates to a contraction of the EV market and thusly, reduced EV adoption. Those correlations are not opinions. In the story, Miss GoElectric identified several categories of goods and materials which appear to be exempt from DoD categorization. Battery cells are not high tech or connected. She posed a question to the audience - are they a real threat or is this CATL designation only protectionism in disguise? I didn't hear her express an opinion either way.
-Producer Tim
More likely it's an admission that the US is years behind China in battery technology.
Your governments have been sucking up to your oil industry for decades and there's no end in sight.
Eventually Americans will wake up to see other parts of the world driving high quality EVs while they're stick with dirty cumbersome expensive gas guzzlers. Then shit will get real.
We shouldn’t be doing business with Chy-na…
Thanks for commenting.
-Producer Tim
it's true. I find it amazing that people believe anything that Chinese companies (or the CCP) say. They have proven time and time and time again, and again, and again, that they can't be trusted. They have zero qualms about lying, as their entire mindset is just to win, at any cost necessary. you can't play fair, when the other party doesn't even believe in the concept of fair.
My wife worked in Cancer drug development, China stole all the technology. Not to be trusted. Epogen was one.
It's a co-opetition situation. If we block ourselves off... they have the best technology currently... so they will just keep pulling away and take the rest of global markets with them. We should probably do what the Chinese did, insist on joint-ventures and technology transfer, and gradually build domestic capacity. Cutting off access to the best tech right now is self-defeating.
Any business? China is the third largest trading partner for the U. S. Or are you just referring to batteries?
...These creatures come from the Tree of Good and Evil...
you said it. -Producer Tim
Nice work, as usual!
IMO, the Afeela seems like a dud.... too expensive, too much focus on interior tech and gadgets... guess we will see once it is in production.
We look forward to bringing you another episode tomorrow! -Producer Tim