Half the impedance yields twice the power exactly when the amplifier is good enough to not drop voltage due to lower impedance (higher current): P = VxV/R.
@@dandonna852 High current is high amount of electrons flowing and is measured in amperes. Watts is a unit of power and defined as 1 Joule of energy per second. Ohms is a unit of resistance. 1 Volt (V) conducting through a 1 Ohm (R) resistor yields 1 Amp (I) of current: V=IxR (Ohm’s law). It also yields 1 Watt. Power can be calculated as P=VxI. Since I=V/R, you can also calculate power as P=VxV/R.
By installing a vintage 450 wpc amp on my semi-budget 4 ohm tower speakers the clarity and dynamics of those speakers has improved to the point to where I am now thoroughly enjoying my speakers. I was using an 85 watt @ 4 ohm amp. It's Pee Wee Herman vs Aaaarnold.
Monitor Audio Platinum 300 3G has a Sensitivity at 88dB and are in 4ohms. So should not be that hard to drive with a decent amp. But more current is always good😎
I don't get this amplifier power doubling thing - let's say an amp does into 8/4 150W/200W But if you then take 8 at 100W then it'll still be able to do 4 at 200W. So it ends up looking like mfr picks either the doubling up marketing or the higher power (into 8) marketing.
Good explanation, thank you Paul. Since a lot of amps don't double the watts from 8 to 4ohm. What is considered still a high current amp? 80% increase 90%?
Just a friendly suggestion, use comma, I'm not even sure if you're confused or if you managed to confuse your speakers. 😉 Maybe reading about Ohm's law could help you. As a reference when reading that, amplifiers are voltage regulating (most of the time), but need to be able and deliver a decent amount of amperes.
His choice of speakers is really good and the question is fair. But those speakers are on 88dB at 1 meter 1 Watt sensitivity, so they are not poor in sensitivity.
Wow. I really want those speakers. I´m using Monitor audio Gold 300 speakers, I use a pair of Vincent mono blocks to drive them 150/300 8/4 ohms watts. Drives them beautifully.
Infinity 9 Kappa - my very first highend speaker, that I bought in 12th grade high school, got me a really quick lesson in speaker Impedance and Current demands. The 9 Kappa's had a minimum impedance of .8 ohms (YES, less than 1 ohm) and a switch on the back which would eleviate the current demands by allowing the speaker to ONLY dip to 3.2 ohms. I ended up having to shell-out (i.e. get a Loan for I was out of money after paying for the new speakers and my new NAD CD playe) a ton of money on a Harman Kardon Citation amplifier - 200 watts into 4 ohms (equally important was the high instantaneous current capability of 120 amps) and could drive the 9 Kappa's even in their extended .8 ohm mode, for which gave slightly more bass / below 35 hz.
Those are perhaps world’s most famous amp killers. But are spectacular sounding with the right amp. Even more power with more current delivery than your HK would improve the sound further.
I got schooled by a pair of Infinity Quantum 4s. I purchased them in the Summer of 1978, and quickly realized that my trusty Sansui receiver could not feed these ravenous beasts. I shopped for a amp with high current and low impedance drive capability, then connected it to the Sansui's preamp outputs. I broke my budget, but there was no easy way out. I also settled on a Harman Kardon amp( HK 870 ), and the Quantum 4s responded with great full range sound and deep bass.
My speakers have a sensitivity of 84DB and my 65W power amp is more than capable of driving them. Perhaps it’s because the amp is class A. The power doubles for 4, 2 and 1 ohm, which I assume means there is a lot of current on tap. The amp has meters on the front and the most I’ve seen it output is 6 watts, although this is typically around 3 watts.
@@RacingAnt I did think about removing the reference to class A and it seems I should have ☺️ I do think that it's not necessary to have an amp that outputs several 100 watts because as you say, much depends on the power supply.
@@jamesfarrow6752 yeah, not sure 100s of watts are needed. A great 50 to 100 watt amp, that can deliver plenty of current, should be enough for most speakers in most rooms.
65watts in class A into 8ohms and the ideal voltage source characteristic you imply, would entail a power output of 520watts into 1ohm load, hence heat dissipation of about... 2500watts, taking class A efficiency into account. The amp would be comparable in size to a washing machine.
@@paulb4661 That's the specifications quoted by the manufacturer. I accept that some specifications are questionable but in this instance, the manufacturer is known to be conservative. It could be argued that this somewhat a moot point anyway given that that speakers are unlikely to dip to 1 ohm.
How in The F@%# Did We Get This Far Without Paul For Crying Out Loud ! My First Stereo Was a Montgomery Wards AM/FM Stereo Turntable with a 8-Track Player All In One and Then For One Penny 1¢ I Joined The Columbia House Record Club and Got 20 Albums for 1¢ Now The Entire World 🌍 Has To Write ✍️ Paul Before We Make a Move On a Amp To Power Up Speakers 🔊 That Only Exist In a 3rd World Country Isn’t There Anymore In India 🇮🇳 That Can Help This Poor Guy This is Unbelievable!
While no amp an truly double their power as the impedance halves some can come pretty close . A used Ampzilla , Bryston , Carver's Sunfire signature , Krell , PS Audio's BHK and Soundcraftsman all can deliver nearly 3x their 8 ohm rating into 2 ohms and are a bargain used.
those speakers do not have low sensitivity or a low ohm. so in that sense they do not need any powerful amplifier. any amplifier solid state at same price as that speaker should do the trick. HEGEL H30A for example.
Its baffling how I can find a car amps that put out a legitimate amp dyno verified Kilowatt for less than $300 and then get totally laughed out of the room if god forbid I ask the same from a home amp.
I've been thinking for a while about finding a highly reviewed and tested car amp(s) and building a fully battery powered HiFi system with home audio gear that I would bypass the AC power supply. Sure it would be a ton of work, but this is a hobby after all.
@@welderfixer Ive yet to see someone try that and i'm def curious as hell. Compare say a 300wpc Class AB car amp to an equivalent home amp and see just how bad or the same it might sound.
@@welderfixer I think what you mean is that theyre capable of handling 2ohm and below loads. I know theres more components needed for power with a home product. Still, I just watched a $100 car amp review that dyno'd in @ 1500watt, how much more are we talkin for an equivalent AC/DC PSU?
Have you ever seen an indian upper class wedding party (about a week long with Beyoncé or another A-lister as the musical guest) ? There are a lot of crazy rich people in India.
You can overdo it with the damping factor You want about 200 max 500, if it's high can make it sounded brittle harshness in the mid range only a low woofer like a subwoofer benefits from higher damping facts. to the guy get yourself Wharfdale Pro Power amplifier CPD 1600 £300 new, if you can afford two and run them as money blocks even better run any speaker can go down to 2 ohms comfortably
Those speakers are 88db, and 4ohm, so in theory easy to drive, BUT. They are big 53kg monsters with double 8" woofers. Recommended wattage is 200 watts up to 800. I would say get some decent mono blocks.
@@Jorge-Fernandez-Lopez88db is the output at 1m at 1khz at 1 watt, the stupid industry standard. Tells you nothing about how hard to drive they are since that depends mainly on sub 100hz frequencies.
@@Jorge-Fernandez-Lopez2.83 volts is more accurate than 1 watt at one meter, because an 8ohm speaker will be equal to one watt at 2.83 volts, but a 4ohm speaker will equal to 2 watts at 2.83 volts. The sensitivity of a speaker is only one measurement though, it could still be harder to drive if the impedance drops really low and depending on the phase angle. There is a lot more to it than just sensitivity.
@@mitchtaylor6512 That's why 2,83 V is useless in my opinion. It's just a value associated with gain, not Watts or current. If phase angle and impedance at low frequencies drop, current and watts will increase a lot, while decibels at 2,83 V (square root of 8) won't change. I recommend to watch the rant by John Devore about this subject. It does it much better than I do.
@@Jorge-Fernandez-Lopez I agree, but it's still better than using 1 watt at 1 meter, but those measurements are not great anyways especially at a 1 meter distance with larger speakers and only at 1khz.
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Half the impedance yields twice the power exactly when the amplifier is good enough to not drop voltage due to lower impedance (higher current): P = VxV/R.
I only have high school degree Is high current watts or ohms?
@@dandonna852 High current is high amount of electrons flowing and is measured in amperes. Watts is a unit of power and defined as 1 Joule of energy per second. Ohms is a unit of resistance. 1 Volt (V) conducting through a 1 Ohm (R) resistor yields 1 Amp (I) of current: V=IxR (Ohm’s law). It also yields 1 Watt. Power can be calculated as P=VxI. Since I=V/R, you can also calculate power as P=VxV/R.
By installing a vintage 450 wpc amp on my semi-budget 4 ohm tower speakers the clarity and dynamics of those speakers has improved to the point to where I am now thoroughly enjoying my speakers. I was using an 85 watt @ 4 ohm amp. It's Pee Wee Herman vs Aaaarnold.
Monitor Audio Platinum 300 3G has a Sensitivity at 88dB and are in 4ohms. So should not be that hard to drive with a decent amp. But more current is always good😎
As I Love Music. Do you think should I Keep doing music if I have a crap monitor and a decent headphone 😑?
I don't get this amplifier power doubling thing - let's say an amp does into 8/4 150W/200W
But if you then take 8 at 100W then it'll still be able to do 4 at 200W.
So it ends up looking like mfr picks either the doubling up marketing or the higher power (into 8) marketing.
Good explanation, thank you Paul. Since a lot of amps don't double the watts from 8 to 4ohm. What is considered still a high current amp? 80% increase 90%?
the benchmark is double THE END . cheers
Still confused my speaker 6 ohms at 120 watts 300 watts amp or 120 watt 4 ohm is high current watt or ohms
Just a friendly suggestion, use comma, I'm not even sure if you're confused or if you managed to confuse your speakers. 😉
Maybe reading about Ohm's law could help you. As a reference when reading that, amplifiers are voltage regulating (most of the time), but need to be able and deliver a decent amount of amperes.
What Your speakers can handle doesn't matter. Whats matter is impedans (6 Ohm) and sensitivity and phase angle.
@@PSA78 I used voice deictation
@@henrikl1394 what is high current? watts or ohms??
Those speakers have 88 dB efficiency, hardly difficult to drive.
Agree , my Wharfdale bookshelf’s are 87db my 6 watt tube amp powers it well in my small den room
I don't think the guy asking the question has any clue about high end audio but I guess that is why he asked the question.
This is a valid question, what makes you think he has not any clue?
@@Karto86 I wonder why my comment has so many thumbs up? Maybe others think he also doesn't know what he is doing?
@@funny0000000 sadly this not answer my question
His choice of speakers is really good and the question is fair. But those speakers are on 88dB at 1 meter 1 Watt sensitivity, so they are not poor in sensitivity.
THIRD!
DUMB!
SECOND!
DUMB!
FIRST!
DUMB!
I'm just happy you are not spending your time using drugs.
Wow. I really want those speakers. I´m using Monitor audio Gold 300 speakers, I use a pair of Vincent mono blocks to drive them 150/300 8/4 ohms watts. Drives them beautifully.
I wonder on the differences between gold and platinum. Seems like a better woofer motor structure, nicer midrange enclosure, newer gen tweeter.
Infinity 9 Kappa - my very first highend speaker, that I bought in 12th grade high school, got me a really quick lesson in speaker Impedance and Current demands. The 9 Kappa's had a minimum impedance of .8 ohms (YES, less than 1 ohm) and a switch on the back which would eleviate the current demands by allowing the speaker to ONLY dip to 3.2 ohms. I ended up having to shell-out (i.e. get a Loan for I was out of money after paying for the new speakers and my new NAD CD playe) a ton of money on a Harman Kardon Citation amplifier - 200 watts into 4 ohms (equally important was the high instantaneous current capability of 120 amps) and could drive the 9 Kappa's even in their extended .8 ohm mode, for which gave slightly more bass / below 35 hz.
Those are perhaps world’s most famous amp killers. But are spectacular sounding with the right amp. Even more power with more current delivery than your HK would improve the sound further.
I got schooled by a pair of Infinity Quantum 4s. I purchased them in the Summer of 1978, and quickly realized that my trusty Sansui receiver could not feed these ravenous beasts. I shopped for a amp with high current and low impedance drive capability, then connected it to the Sansui's preamp outputs. I broke my budget, but there was no easy way out. I also settled on a Harman Kardon amp( HK 870 ), and the Quantum 4s responded with great full range sound and deep bass.
if you make these everyday soon there will be no more topics to talk about, Paul has given us all infinite knowledge, what else can be said.
He hasn't talked about why a musician will choose a Celestion Blue and an audiophile won't.
They are 88db/2.83Vrms@1m and don't go down under 4 Ohm according to Stereophile. So not a hard load to drive. If the Amp is a good one.
My speakers have a sensitivity of 84DB and my 65W power amp is more than capable of driving them. Perhaps it’s because the amp is class A. The power doubles for 4, 2 and 1 ohm, which I assume means there is a lot of current on tap. The amp has meters on the front and the most I’ve seen it output is 6 watts, although this is typically around 3 watts.
Nothing to do with class A. Everything to do with having a great power supply.
@@RacingAnt I did think about removing the reference to class A and it seems I should have ☺️ I do think that it's not necessary to have an amp that outputs several 100 watts because as you say, much depends on the power supply.
@@jamesfarrow6752 yeah, not sure 100s of watts are needed. A great 50 to 100 watt amp, that can deliver plenty of current, should be enough for most speakers in most rooms.
65watts in class A into 8ohms and the ideal voltage source characteristic you imply, would entail a power output of 520watts into 1ohm load, hence heat dissipation of about... 2500watts, taking class A efficiency into account. The amp would be comparable in size to a washing machine.
@@paulb4661 That's the specifications quoted by the manufacturer. I accept that some specifications are questionable but in this instance, the manufacturer is known to be conservative. It could be argued that this somewhat a moot point anyway given that that speakers are unlikely to dip to 1 ohm.
How in The F@%#
Did We Get This Far
Without Paul For Crying Out Loud !
My First Stereo
Was a Montgomery Wards
AM/FM Stereo Turntable
with a 8-Track Player All
In One and Then For
One Penny 1¢
I Joined The Columbia House Record Club and Got 20 Albums for
1¢
Now The Entire World 🌍
Has To Write ✍️ Paul
Before We Make a Move On a Amp To
Power Up Speakers 🔊
That Only Exist In a
3rd World Country
Isn’t There Anymore In
India 🇮🇳 That Can Help
This Poor Guy
This is Unbelievable!
While no amp an truly double their power as the impedance halves some can come pretty close . A used Ampzilla , Bryston , Carver's Sunfire signature , Krell , PS Audio's BHK and Soundcraftsman all can deliver nearly 3x their 8 ohm rating into 2 ohms and are a bargain used.
those speakers do not have low sensitivity or a low ohm. so in that sense they do not need any powerful amplifier.
any amplifier solid state at same price as that speaker should do the trick.
HEGEL H30A for example.
Its baffling how I can find a car amps that put out a legitimate amp dyno verified Kilowatt for less than $300 and then get totally laughed out of the room if god forbid I ask the same from a home amp.
lol the car amp sounds like crap GUARANTEED ..
I've been thinking for a while about finding a highly reviewed and tested car amp(s) and building a fully battery powered HiFi system with home audio gear that I would bypass the AC power supply. Sure it would be a ton of work, but this is a hobby after all.
@@welderfixer Ive yet to see someone try that and i'm def curious as hell. Compare say a 300wpc Class AB car amp to an equivalent home amp and see just how bad or the same it might sound.
@@AllboroLCD I may be wrong, I believe the bonus may be that automotive amps are designed to run 4 ohm speakers.
@@welderfixer I think what you mean is that theyre capable of handling 2ohm and below loads. I know theres more components needed for power with a home product. Still, I just watched a $100 car amp review that dyno'd in @ 1500watt, how much more are we talkin for an equivalent AC/DC PSU?
Must be living large in Bangalore to be able to afford those speakers.
Must be one of those phone scammer guys.
Have you ever seen an indian upper class wedding party (about a week long with Beyoncé or another A-lister as the musical guest) ? There are a lot of crazy rich people in India.
@@Bassotronics That's by far not the biggest income source in India. Don't underestimate the industry in Bangalore (e.g. pharmazeuticals).
You can overdo it with the damping factor You want about 200 max 500, if it's high can make it sounded brittle harshness in the mid range only a low woofer like a subwoofer benefits from higher damping facts. to the guy get yourself Wharfdale Pro Power amplifier CPD 1600 £300 new, if you can afford two and run them as money blocks even better run any speaker can go down to 2 ohms comfortably
Those speakers are 88db, and 4ohm, so in theory easy to drive, BUT. They are big 53kg monsters with double 8" woofers. Recommended wattage is 200 watts up to 800. I would say get some decent mono blocks.
88 dB/W at 1 m ?, 88 dB for 2,83 V at 1 m? Are these values the same for 4 and for 8 Ω speakers ? 88db relative to ? Wouldn't be closer to 85 dB/W ?
@@Jorge-Fernandez-Lopez88db is the output at 1m at 1khz at 1 watt, the stupid industry standard. Tells you nothing about how hard to drive they are since that depends mainly on sub 100hz frequencies.
@@Jorge-Fernandez-Lopez2.83 volts is more accurate than 1 watt at one meter, because an 8ohm speaker will be equal to one watt at 2.83 volts, but a 4ohm speaker will equal to 2 watts at 2.83 volts. The sensitivity of a speaker is only one measurement though, it could still be harder to drive if the impedance drops really low and depending on the phase angle. There is a lot more to it than just sensitivity.
@@mitchtaylor6512 That's why 2,83 V is useless in my opinion. It's just a value associated with gain, not Watts or current. If phase angle and impedance at low frequencies drop, current and watts will increase a lot, while decibels at 2,83 V (square root of 8) won't change. I recommend to watch the rant by John Devore about this subject. It does it much better than I do.
@@Jorge-Fernandez-Lopez I agree, but it's still better than using 1 watt at 1 meter, but those measurements are not great anyways especially at a 1 meter distance with larger speakers and only at 1khz.