Let's repair an old 286 mainboard Jaton JAM-2301-V1
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- In this video I would like to take care of the nice, very rare and over 30 years old 286 mainboard Jaton JAM-2301-V1, which Ctibor donated recently to my channel.
Ultimate Retro entry (Jaton JAM-2301-V1):
www.ultimatere...
XT Prototyping Board:
github.com/nec...
Patreon:
/ necroware
I am the first! ☺️
As always very glad to see you here. I'm also very curious about your 286 you are currently working on ;)
@@necro_ware A friend at Twitter found and purchased 25MHz one and I remember about his teaser!
Happy holidays to both of you and thanks for all the great content!
When I wash boards I give them a quick shallow bath in isopropyl alcohol after washing with water. The alcohol is very good at removing the water and salts from under components and evaporates much quicker. Just remember to do this outside because the IPA fumes are strong and unpleasant.
.....unless we want to reeeeeealy enjoy our hobby that is.
@@wishusknight3009 then you need to use a certain other solvent ;) IPA fumes only cause headaches..
@@ochykysh lol yup
Iso fumes are strong but I never found them to be too unpleasent (even for 70% Iso solutions)
I slap my fingers against the slots and memory sockets. Just a little bounce of the meat of your fingers over the open slot will shake a lot of surface tension loose and drip water everywhere. Then compressed air in the nooks and crannies, then dry for a day in a warm spot. Good to go!
Another rescued board. And obviously a rare one, too. Even the early 486 boards doesn´t had integrated IDE and floppy. Your high quality content pays off now, it seems. Congrats to more than 15000 subs!
This has a Siemens controller chip. So this most likely was an OEM board for a said name brand. Integrated controllers were not uncommon. But in the larger clone market, they were often too expensive.
Even some of the earliest Pentium boards didn't have integrated controllers.
However, I once owned an IBM-branded 286 mainboard with both controllers integrated AND a pair of 72-pin SIMM slots (but NO onboard RAM). IIRC the board was dated 1986. So it was a weird one all around. Sorry I don't still have it.
@@Reziac The earliest ibm boards to use 72 pin ram was probably 1990 iirl. I know they put copyright dates of 1986 on many ps/2 mainboards, even later ones. The early 286 boards used cards which used pin arrays to plug in and were not like a normal 72pin simm.. I don't know how many pins they were though.
@@wishusknight3009 That's what I thought. But bloody hell, here was that IBM board, it was old and long retired when I got it (about 1994). and yes they were standard 72 pin SIMMs, I still have the SIMMs and they worked in a 486. It was probably used at JPL tho (judging by whose trash it was), so might have been a special model not found on the consumer market.
@@Reziac The model 30 was made for quite a few years and did change specification a couple of times. But I do think it was mostly relegated to business sales by the end of its run for its cheap price. It is possible that the last models used 72 pin simms and were only business class offerings. IBM tried to keep a modicum of standardization across the line.
This channel is a real blessing and I mean that. There are a couple of other vintage computer / Electrical engineering channels that are not misleading have people like yourself who are passionate and have in depth knowledge to share. every time I watch one of your repair videos I generally learn something new and cannot wait for an opportunity to try to build on my skill sets. There is a tech you tube channel of a bloke in Queensland Australia who makes other Australians look bad he gets used computer parts and cleans PCB's with automotive brake cleaner a very harsh solvent which I have seen when I worked in the automotive industry melt rubber this guy sprays it all over dirty motherboards and alike he is another one who follows the trend of another particular youtube channel who is generally corporate sponsored given a plethora of new tech goodies in fact he acts like he has more cents than brains so to speak. But now the guy in Queensland uses a ultrasonic cleaner but still uses brake cleaner and then shows people who to flip the parts and make stupid mass profits while some poor end user will have a dead pc one day due to the brake cleaner damaging components that stuff even causes rust too on certain metals. You really do show us how to get valuable vintage hardware take care to restore them properly I really am glad your channel come up as a suggestion one day I never look back. Now that prototype board of yours after Christmas is over I think I will be investing in a couple of those do you also have a CPI/PCIE version/s yet?
Thanks. No, I made only this one for ISA
love it takes me back to the beginning i still have a hoard in my basement
That tinning of the traces is a good idea!
Thank you for showing this technique in such a detailed form. Your channel is excellent and is also very underrated. Thank you for your shared designs. I plan to produce some Dallas replacements for a couple of SGIs. Brilliant design 🙂
What a great video! I learn so much watching you tinker with these boards, so many tips and tricks. :)
I've been binge-watching your channel for days now, absolutely love it. Please keep it up! :)
I'd love to see you upgrade this board in the future as you hinted. Especially if it's possible to replace those horrible SIMM sockets, that'd be very educational to see.
Best wishes from Sweden!
You aré so good and entertaining! And you brought back hapyness to this nice jewel of a mainboard!! Great work! Kudos!! 👍👍
Good old days, good, old, days, 286 is what I can remember where I start from.
I'm currently troubleshooting a 286 board, and this video is a goldmine of information. Excellent explanations and presentation. Love your work!
Recently found your channel and have been binge watching these repair vids! My favourite type of retro videos to watch.
Наконец то 286 :)
П.С. Я мою платы Mr.Muskul зелёным, смываю, потом розовым, смываю. Далее феном без нагрева выдуваю всю воду, в конце горячим потоком сушу. Ставлю в сухое тёплое место на 1 день. Выглядит как новая.
Ну да, принцип тот же. Я так уже точно несколько сотен плат отмыл
Thank you for the video sir. I was amaze and awe of your work. Love it
I pull a lot of old hardware from e-waste and I can confirm that using soapy water is just fine on electronics. As long as you wash away all the soap you're good.
Ага, тоже себе собрал 286, раз в году включаю его, чтобы поностальгировать! Классная вещь.
What a good video with information that few share.I haven't learned so much from a video in a long time Very good thanks.
The content of the video was interesting - good job!!!
Eine Freude zu sehen!
Very nicely done! washing computers with water is absolutely possible and I revived a laptop covered in coca cola back in time which worked for years now in a similar way as you did. depending on the amount of bad stuff I wanna remove I also wash in IPA with ultrasonic cleaner after washing with water. this also removes water previously applied to the board. it is great fun to watch your videos!
Nice restoration
Another cool phrase - "a warping number!"
WOW! This brought back SO MANY childhood memories of building computers.... I'm so happy I found your channel! Being that I'm 40 now it's been a LONG time since I had to worry about having 640k lol :D
THANK YOU for making these videos, it really makes me feel like I have SOME use in the computer world and not totally left behind with these damn tiktok gamers twitching all day lol :P (yea, I know that sounded like an old guy complaining :P )
Imagine when you have to worry about having 640 TB of RAM to play games on Windows 2K92
@@nekomasteryoutube3232 you miss aligned orders of magnitude via compounding. If Moore conjecture continues, even by mega-hyper parallelization, 3-dimension intercenects, quantum computation plus whatever new stuff happens.
By the 2090s it will be exa bytes ( 10¹⁸). Or millions of times bigger of ram.
I usually blow it with air under pressure and then dry it with a hairdryer!
This AMD (intel '82) processor just brings so much memories. I have one of these somewhere under the bed!
if you are impatient just rinse with isopropyl alcohol. it can mix with water and remove it, and then the ipa will evaporate fast.
This makes me want to get a damaged old board and fix it... :D Great presentation. Subbed.
Lidl brand lemon juice!
Great video :) I wash my boards exactly like you, but, after removing the soap with tap water, I submerge the pcb in demineralized water (a 5 liter bottle is less than 1€ in any general store) to avoid limestone and other minerals. After that I scrub with a bit of alcohol, just to make sure all the contaminants in the water are removed, and then I use the hair dryer and I let the pcb dry for several days. Do you have any tips on how to protect stamps and stickers while cleaning the boards?
IDE pin 28 on some early boards must be disconnected for new drives/CF/SD adaptors because back then it was used for various different and incompatible things, like SPSYNC (probably already obsolete when that board was made) and BALE signals, and yes, it will hang POST at controller/drive initialization, try an extension cable with pin 28 disconnected.
Older drives with switches for Single unit, C and D expect the BALE signal and newer drives with MASTER, SLAVE and CABLE SELECT expect ground.
Also some early drives (Conner CP30xx) will *DIE* if you connect them to newer boards or USB adaptors with pin 28 grounded...
At least some boards up to Socket 7 with integrated IDE could supply the correct signal (BALE or GND) for both old and new drives using a jumper, but you can't mix both kind of drives on the same channel.
Regarding the "long slot" - this is most likely not for memory expansion. The 286 does not need more lines than available on the ISA bus.
Yeah, it could be also some other upgrade option. Hard to tell exactly, since such boards are very rare anyway and a lot of them are even proprietary.
WHAAAAAT?
30 years old 286????
It does mean I'm pretty old. Thanks to ruin my day. :-D
BTW, Nice work man
One last thing, for safety, remove all those old tantaluns and replace with eletrolytics, as you know, those old tantaluns go short and explodes without warning. I have nice 386 motheboard that was killed by shorted tantalum, thankfully I could fix the board replacing the keyboard controller and the cpu. Lesson learned,
I tend not to change parts just because I can. It costs a lot of time and in the most cases an exploded tantalum is an easy fix. You must've had really a bad day.
Just one question: what is the size of the rubber tips that you use/recommend? A link to the seller maybe? I must try this method, usually when corrosion is not too bad i use vinegar, rubbing brush, soap, distilled water and protect traces with nail polish. In case of the heavy trace damage, just soldering wire on the back side to reinforce trace(s). That way (nail polish protection) imo, further oxydation is not possible, but your method is just... mindblowing.
I'm dealing with Commodore machines mostly (c128 is the nastiest b*tch for repairs, you should try it once if you didn't yet, sooo complicated to diagnose, its basicaly 3 computers in 1), but 2/3/486'ers are too "on my menu"😊
No official education in electronics, but the passion is the best motivator to learn new things, and every sucess is so rewarding for this amateur here😊
Thank you for your lectures man (thumb up)
disfrute viendo este video y como tienes el equipo necesario para reparar una tarjeta de esa capacidad. ¡ Felicidades !
Please make that video about multiple BIOSes. :D
2:21
Если быть совсем точным, то эта конкретная плата 90-го года выпуска, 20-я неделя:)
What’s the name of that deoxide spray?
And where did you get these rubbers?
1. Kontakt 60
2. Aliexpress
At 13:17 you show a capacitor with 273µF but Vloss 49% and ESR 140ohms, certainly that is not ok?
Oh, shit, I took the wrong shot during the edit :D I tested the capacitor two times and the first values were totally off. After a reset everything was right again, but of course I took the wrong shot into the video.... my bad. This were ceramic 47pF caps as you see in the video and they can't even be 273µF :)
@@necro_ware Haha, yes I was looking all over the board thinking where was that electrolytic cap you removed as certainly a tantalum from the 80's will not have that high capacitance, now I know :) Thanks for the great videos! :)
i've used diluted phosphoric acid rust killer for killing battery corrosion ...
See? Toothbrushes are your friend.
Can a network card with XT-IDE ROM inserted still be used a se network card?
Yes
@@necro_ware thank you, good to know! So then the only thing that's not possible is a network boot.
I'm curious to know if the old eproms come back to life if You try to refresh their memory cells reprogramming them a couple of times.
If the problem is just simple bit fade, one erase and rewrite would be adequate and would give you likely about as long or better than it originally lasted (depending if the problem was bad programming - EPROMS are really analog devices internally and you can program the cells to varying levels depending how long the programming pulse is applied; proper programming measures how much programming it takes each bit to start showing a 0 and then overprograms some percentage past that).
It is called an ISA slot, not an ISO slot.
Really? O_o
Nice video! You were very lucky you could read that BIOS chip even though it was flaky.
The freezing with the CF card is the BIOS software interrupt routine for reading the fixed disk. They likely copied IBM's original routine from the 5170 too closely which will freeze up on drives that are too fast. I go over the problem here:
ruclips.net/video/qO3xrl0XR-4/видео.html
It is fixable with disassembly and hex editing of that BIOS, but only if someone figured out the interrupt routine and is able to adjust the timing delay. Besides XTIDE, the other solution would be to use a newer 286 BIOS without the problem. You'd lose all those extra settings though, so it's certainly not ideal!
Perhaps they copied the bytes directly from IBM so a little search and replace would work?
Thank you Adrian. Yeah, now where you say that, I remember your video with the IBM and that issue. Somehow I didn't think, that the same bits could be shared with the IBMs original code. I guess, I'll have to dig into that and try to disassemble the BIOS. Thanks for reminding me....
@@necro_ware I'm really bad with x86 disassembly. I bet if we can figure it out or at least find someone to help, then maybe the same fix can be applied to all Phoenix 286 BIOS chips? (Likely similar code with different offsets) Let me point Stewart who fixed the 5170 BIOS to your video and BIOS download. Maybe he can figure it out.
Hmm. this makes more sense than my comment I just made... I surmised it was the cf card being close at the 528mb limit. And it may not have the geometry handling. So a smaller CF might work. I have a 286 that behaves this way. It also uses a dedicated controller. But in this case i would guess you are on the money here.
It should be possible to use IDA Free edition to help with the disassembly.
I agree, it's a "magical and satisfying moment" indeed. I have a board which I am struggling to repair which had battery damage, I will follow your advice on that. Great video as usual!!
Great job as usual! I discovered your channel a few days ago and can't get enough of it. Also thank you for helping preserve the retro hardware :)
Tip for the future : Changing the power voltage can help read back flaky EPROMs, (some will need < 5V, some will need > 5V, depends on their internal circuits). It was not needed here, but if you ever have a bad one with content you can't find elsewhere this could come in handy.
Please make the video about the two BIOS chips
What a great Video, Thank you sir!!
Yes! Another repair video. My favorites!
They are so chill.
15:25 YES, please make that short video about BIOS!
Thanks! Can't w8 for the upgrade :) been in computers for as long as I can remember but I started with a 486 sx/33!(later was my first major upgrade, with 9 chips of cache memory as well as going with the dx/33 CPU salvaged from a rummage sale.) I did have an XT but never took the time to learn programming as this seemed to be the only thing to do with these, until the flash card hard drives trick came about, which is exciting! now we can actually play some of those period games on ancient hardware! Cool BIOS trick on the network card too, looks like magic!
I'm new to the channel and dang this is amazing. I approve of using Commander Keen as a testing program. Grats on getting this working!
I love your repair videos.
Retro computing is something i want to get into as i gew up with these old PCs in the 90s.
Yes, i could emulate, but i'd rather have a retro PC :)
I learned something new today. Thanks!
Another great repair video :)
1) I need to be more methodical and patient when cleaning corrosion too. I love your result.
2) I usually use citric acid, this is the acid in lemon juice but in powder form. I make the solution as strong as I want.
3) This faulty ROM chips OMG, I will add this to my tests, thanks for the info!!
4) The two red caps are probably different as these are the only 16v ones (connected to +12v and -12v rails).
I need to recheck some of my broken boards now :/
Thank you. And yes, you could be right about the 16V ;)
Ahhh... I already have the rubber tips for my Dremel tool , but coating the traces with the flux is the key! I didn't know that, but watching the solder chase the fluxed traces was undeniable, and something I'd literally never seen before.
This is all very important to me, as I own a pair of the very rare 25Mhz Harris chip 286 boards w/ 16Mb direct-addressable memory (not EMS) [and w/ soldered battery - ugh!], so I'll probably have to make similar repairs when I try to restore them.
Many thanks!
Great video. Very informative. Thank you.
Very nice BlackMagic with network card!
Never expected to see a bottle of surig here😂
I recently got simillar board JAM-2301-V3. There were a lot of missing parts like cpu, bios, kb controller and broken cpu socket. I replaced broken socket and used bios from V1 because there is no other is available anywhere. Board was alived. I set some basic seetings like FDD,HDD,VGA and shadowing. After bios was saved board tryed to boot but I didnt't have floppy connected. So I powered it off I connected floppy and now it is only freezing. It is show only JATON SUPER 286 SYSTEM 2 text and hang at post code 35. Unfortunatelly this postcode is not described. When this code will show both IFRAME and IRDY led will go off. I assume that something died but I dont have any idea where I shoudl begin to search. Could you give me some advice? Thanks.
Really enjoy your videos thanks a bunch for them!!!
Your videos are awesome!
Love what you do, love to fix things and you are an artist.
Keep up the good work!
Nice repair once more!
This was a stupid video and I hated it....
Who am I kiddin`? Awesome video, awesome repair! (I do hate you for having such a nice 286 board, though 😛)
That is incredible how well the damaged area comes back after cleaning and a polish with the dremel - all the traces crisp and visible again!
Awesome work👍
Wow, TH components!
This is really on the cusp of technology!
Making me want to have one...
always remember to wash your backside
LOL :D THE back side, THE!
Great Video Like always, nice fix , i still wait for my TL866 II + but maybe next year come :-(
Step you missed. Lacquer or transparent nail varnish the exposed traces to prevent the solder traces from further corrosion via air.
What a cool vintage board, a beast for it's time. You took such good care of the restoration. This was a joy to watch
Just an extra tip : when you put the board upright after cleaning it with water, make sure the chips are aligned VERTICALLY - due to the surface tension of water, water won't flow between the legs of chips so it can get trapped there. If the chips are aligned vertically, the water can escape from underneath the chip itself without pins or legs blocking the "escape route". If you have chips running in both direction, it may not be a bad idea to change orientation after a while. I also find that a hairdryer can help coax water from trapped pockets.
286 repairs are among of my favourites
The magical checking hole card is amazing
Awesome repair. Are you covering the bios IC's with a sticker to avoid accidentally erasing them with ambient UV rays?
yes
@@necro_ware sweet! I remember a co worker at a previous job wondering why he kept having issues and thought the eraser was the only way to wipe them.
Enjoyed the Video, always pleasure to see you fix stuff :) Please put a 287 FPU to Upgrade it!
7:10 i was using toilet cleaner liquid and was preety nice and effective but its very agressive and must be quicky neutralised/flushed
...flushed.... I see what you did there...
@@wishusknight3009 xd
Great video! Your channel is definitely one of my top discoveries of 2021. Keep up the good work.
I adopted your method of removing flux from a board by using alcohol with a toothbrush and then using the toothbrush with a paper towel to remove the residue (I use a clean cloth instead of paper towel and throw it in the wash when it gets too dirty). It is a very quick way to clean a board and looks like new afterwards!
You are welcome.
Really Great job!!
Thanks for the amazing videos. It's nice to see the quality improvement on your videos and new techniques over time.
All your videos are very satisfying and teach us a lot.
Keep up the good work.
It's a work of love and also I took the way to repair, maybe helps to get mine working.
Also it's interesting to see what can run with some add ons. I hope you build a pc of this too.
Good video as always.
Hallelujah! Another board saved!
wonderful video, thank you
You inspire me to start trying some old things to live again!!
Ha, the CF card lottery. Good job.
Good job
Ahhh. That's funny. Normal tap water has souls in it, according to the closed captions after 9:04.
Tap water souls, making spooky lime stains.
...Mr. Clean gets tough on dirt and grime/ And grease in just a minute/ Mr. Clean will exorcise your house/ And every room that's in it. [insert the theme from the exorcist]
Salts, just my bad pronunciation plus automatic voice recognition...
@@necro_ware I make silly comments once in a while. I didn't mean it as criticism. I think your pronunciation is fine and I like your videos a lot
the date code on most through hole Dips are 4 digits, usually the first 2 are the last 2 digits of the year manufactured, as you stated. Then the next 2 are the week in that year the chip was made out of 52 weeks. so 38 would be the 38th week out of 52. I have seen the order reversed. other manufacturers use this too. Just about every circuit board ever made. After the parts/IC's have been flow soldered or however, the circuit boards go into a special washing machine with a special soap and washed to get process residues removed. Also, you are making a video recording anyone else no matter what it is you are taking apart whether a mainboard or your car ...take pictures...it's free and very helpful later on. 😀
Amazing restauration. I have a couple of 386 motherboards that need this kind of work. I'll reference your videos for sure. Great work, thanks for putting it out there.
This is a great video with good information. I have been watching and have been subscribed for a while. But I would like to ask a question? which country are you from? Your accent is very difficult to figure out, thank you.
I speak multiple languages and my accent accumulated all the notes over the years. Usually nobody can tell which accent I have, doesn't matter which language I speak. Let's say, I'm from the planet Earth :D
@@necro_ware No way! Me too! What a coincidence. What a small 9 dimensional space we all live in. :)
What oscilloscope do you use? I have a Rigol DS1054Z (I'm a beginner) but a small one like yours seems a lot more convienent?
You can find the info you need in the pinned comment here ruclips.net/video/koL3T5OAlIk/видео.html
@@necro_ware Thank you very much!
Good repair!
21:01 They tend to short or they tant to short? 🤓😉
Cool revival video! 👌
:D
I have a Complete 286 PC With an 12Mhz Intel CPU and 640K of RAM and also CO-Processor. it Runns with a 20 MB MFM HDD and VGA Card. Software Window 3.0 and Dos 6.22
Excellent video, many thanks!!
I love your videos - I cannot wait until next. Great job like always. You are awesome. This is better as movie.