Imagine knowing your playstyle is so infuriating and toxic that you make and bring a sign to tournaments just to show it to people after they get frustrated when playing against you.
@@ph0g275 You realize that's a fucking stupid comparison since Bayo pretty much killed smash 4s competitive scene right? No one cares about it now that ultimate is out. Not to mention Bayo at least is moderately entertaining to watch, unlike wobbling.
Wow people arguing over an incorrect point Wobbling was banned as soon as it began to become common. It was unbanned by EVO for literally no reason in 2013
@@Chair-Son god thank you for commenting this. They unbanned it because infinite combos being legal is standard in the fgc so to stay in evo and keep rulesets alike they kept it legal. Wobbling is definitely not as input intensive as other infinites tho, so 🤷♀️
@@BlackBoxGamers wavedashing isn't an exploit. It's coded in the game to specifically work like that. Sakurai just didn't expect it to be used like that. Also there's a difference between a technique everyone can use and one that only one character can use with little to no drawbacks
@@Unluckyfawn If you want to add skill to wobbling, make it legal to attack wobblers, so they have to perform the operation while dodging IRL counterattacks.
Notice the huge difference between hand offs/combos and wobbling. Some of the opponents actuallynlook impressed or entertained and have a laugh. Wobbling there is silent contempt
Hand offs to me are some of the coolest things melee has to offer. Wobbeling tho is just weird. I wouldnt mind it if people can wobble when down 2 stocks but seeing sets like none or west just makes you hate the game
@Ronan Dre I remember them because of the Desync combos in ultimate, and the weird moments where Nana actually knows what to do. My favourite thing about them was NOT to grab, but that 40% damage an unreactable and uncharged down smash.
@EMERSON FITTS i disagree completely, the only people planking are doing it to ice climbers, and m2k. But m2k is a whole different matter he thinks there should be a ledge grab limit to characters that he doesnt play. Imagine being an ice climbers player that wobbled people for 3 years and then complain that jiggly puff players dont let you play the game, when your entire career is banning your opponent from playing the game.
Don’t act like you know anyone in person that’s ever had to break the game to beat you. You’re only finding bugs and glitches at the highest levels of competition where people are breaking the game through a lifetime of playing. That’s /never/ going to happen with the other games because of how locked into place the mechanics are.
@@ikki-gaming8933 At least you can SDI from bayonetta's combos, even you it's really hard and stupid. Once you get wobbled, all you can do is sit here and watch.
@@001shadowknight during the Smash 4 grand finale of Evo 2018, because they didn't like that Lima and Captain Zack, two bayo main made it to finale. This resulted into the infamous Bayonetta standoff which was pretty much a big "fuck you" to the crowd booing them.
@@thel33tpenguinftw40 Actually, yeah 😂 Mostly good, but I totally get your point - there's many examples of failing it from high level players - so it's not a free stock. That being said, a 3-4 frame combo with no opposition is vastly easier than outplaying an opponent. That's most people's point: It takes a lot of gameplay away from the match up. Compare this to Zangief from Street Fighter, where you need setups and a lot of reading your opponent to win a round. Snake Eyes is extremely impressive and entertaining to watch - the direct opposite of a single grab into KO
what kind of person do you have to be to compete in a game where 99% of the people you're playing against legitimately hate you and they all just sit there like "ah well unlucky pal just dont get grabbed :))"
YGuy1 Bruh it’s not that deep, they’re just saying "if they’re winning and are being ranked better, then they don’t care about the opinions of 99% of players since they’re not classified 'as good'". It’s not like they’re saying "well you’re just worse than a wobbler so you don’t matter"
If anyone pops off because they won due to wobbling it's just sad. It doesnt show any mastery over the game or sportsmanship when you get one grab per stock and its over without the other guy even being able to do anything about it. It would be like if one team in basketball was allowed to dribble outside the lines, or a team in baseball wasnt allowed to have anything pitched against them except straights right over the middle of the plate. You could probably still win under those conditions but it just defeats the purpose of playing.
Wisnam Nintendude is a good player with or without wobbling. Yeah wobbling helps all of them, but I’m pretty sure he popped off because he made top 8 against a player who often gives him trouble
He popped off because he beat one of the best Melee players off all time in a matchup that is extremely difficult for ICs. Don't blame him for using everything at his disposal to win, blame the game or the rule-set.
Ice Climbers have so much potential for being hype af, but wobbling is so easy that there is literally no point in trying to lab new and creative stuff.
Man, imagine an exploit allowing people to do 150% damage and kill off one grab where there's nothing you can do to escape it, and people tried to defend it.
It's true that you can't escape it, but you can avoid it by not getting caught. The fact that Wobbles isn't played in 100% of the games shows that this technique isn't game breaking. It's annoying for sure, but you can outplay your opponent.
Cvo777 yeah that breaks my heart. It’s literally so insanely unfair and I don’t even play Melee except for pure fun (and I haven’t played in forever). Really sad man. Also your profile picture is amazing.
No, no it's not. The one thing you never want to happen, is for a player to lose against themselves instead of their opponent. It's way more satisfying when they never get a single good grab off imho.
benackdrums wobbling isn’t that bad, sure it’s a zero to death move but pro’s adapted to it by speeding up their gameplay never stand still or hold shield for too long, also iceclimbers is (or are idk) a really bad character and is bottom tier so wobbling is all they have
jess camara kinda unnecessary to call me a retard, just to be clear I don’t support Ice climbers players but i’m just saying that wobbling is the only thing that makes iceclimbers viable
If you die by wobbling, you have every right to be pissed off. I feel so bad for leffen when he had a 3 stock lead and got wobbled 3 out of his 4 stocks and lost
@@arcadescrub5138 they showed Wobbles (the guy who originally popularized the technique but stopped using it because he thinks its too cheesy) at the end of the video winning as Ice Climbers without wobbling.
I remember going to my first Melee tournament at the University of Rochester. I wasn't really a great player, but I had some pretty high hopes that I at least might be able to make it a round or two in before getting dumpstered by the veterans since I'd played pretty casually with friends before. The first round, my opponent picked Ice Climbers and wobbled every stock he could. Once the set was over, he looked me in the eyes, smiled, and said "Good games." I haven't attended a Melee event since.
this exact thing happened to my second local ever, I got four stocked game two even though game one it was last stock to last stock. All four stocks wobbled, I played a LITTLE lazier and got wobbled all four stocks and tilted because I lost the first two to easy shield grabs (which was my fault but the punish is just fucking ridiculously brutal) then I sighed and the wobbler just fucking laughed. never went to a local there again because the ex marth player who turned into a wobbler started magically winning locals more often
That sucks man. It’s a crutch of a technique that at best can only help to encourage the player’s development of the rest of an arsenal that IC’s have at their disposal. At that point, I don’t see the move having much more significance in the meta of the game if it can’t even necessarily help IC players net wins at the top tournament level. I do think it was right to keep it in and test it’s place in the game overtime, in order to not set any ban happy precedent. But since the character has developed to a fairly competent point in being able to understand their full potential, I don’t think the IC’s necessarily need that move anymore to carry them if it’s no longer significantly contributing to their meta-game.
Gotta love how people who play the game by the rules are mocked because they win so easily. If it isn't banned, why not use it? It's entirely fair and silly to say it isn't if it isn't banned.
That fact that it was banned later rather than sooner is I think a good thing. Tournaments left it to be tested in the competitive scene, and it never got absurdly out of hand where allowed. Contentious sure, but waiting to ban it was the right thing (even if that wait was very long). Sure, it could have been sooner according to some people’s preference. But the fact that IC’s have never been at the very top in placing a major victory probably just prolonged the tolerance process for wobbling up to this point. The IC’s still grew in other areas as their meta progressed, and in a way carried the long technical processes of implementing the rest of IC’s kit into a actual matches via that crutch. Honestly to me that’s what wobbling has been for the IC’s specifically; a crutch for the rest of their toolkit to properly be explored and developed. I think it’s served a decent purpose.
The argument against banning it is that ICs aren't a top tier character even with the technique. Not saying I agree or disagree, but that's the argument.
Almost cried at 6:47 I just want to give him a hug he looks like he worked so hard to get to where he was only to be pushed down by cheese. #nomorewobbling
Hey, if you can make money and you have go pay money to win, might as well abuse the fact that they are using a non competitive party game. The game isnt balanced so, who cares?
@@BlueAizu_ it was not made clear in the original comment that the poster knew wobbles discovered the tech. He should have said "isn't it ironic the guy who discovered wobbling never does it?"
No fuck wobbling it's literally uncompetitive. Wobbling is the no skill, lazy way of getting into competitive for putting in half the amount of time into the game as other people. Wobbling should have been banned along time ago. I have no respect for Wobblers.
6:00 : West is not happy about that 6:19 : West in not happy about that 6:35 NOW West is happy about that, look at this "laugh" (he's thinking about a way to kill him self and it made him laugh)
It really wasnt. He gave him a free chance and he IMMEDIATELY unpaired him offstage. Just cuz they're ICs doesnt nean a fix should get praised for his crowd
@@mustard8148 So you're saying that accidentally dropping an infinite that would've won him the game guaranteed, and Fox taking advantage of it, is not deserved? Are you from a different solar system?
And then everyone starts bitching bout their ability to wobble. Like shit just admit that watching it bores you, don't just say "buh huh I want it banned because I'm a gigantic man baby"
If you're gonna ban Wobbling you might as well ban wavedashing as well. also lol @ professional competive setting, it's a fucking cartoon fighting game
FUC3 it is a cartoon fighting game that people play professionally in a competitive setting and make money off of it. Fortnite is a cartoon shooting game that people dance in and it is played competitively for millions of dollars. So I don't really know what you're talking about.
Never played Melee, but I play other fighting games and "wobbling" cropped up in my recommendations so - from a completely objective point of view. Wobbling is hilarious, the absolute fuckin' *audacity* to do that on a stage is quite commendable. (Obviously should be banned though)
@@sigurdtheblue in what way is his comment idiotic? It's well articulated and no grammatical errors. And his opinion is his opinion, which I agree with cuz fuck wobbling and double FUCK the people doing it during a tournament
@@justinbean971 If it's not banned, of course people will do it. The guy knows nothing about melee and he's saying that Wobbling "objectively" should be banned.
@@sptflcrw8583 You really don't need to play Melee to get the general run down on Wobbling and immediately think "Well that's not fucking fair, that should be banned".
Sadly this is too small of a controversy to get 15+ million dislikes. Not enough melee players who know what it is to dislike the video, let alone hear about it.
@@lordjaraxxus5418 That's a good point, I do remember that. RUclips as a whole though has given me and most sources that other opinion that they just don't seem to care enough about their audience's and creators' opinions anymore. I haven't verified the rumor about the removal of dislike buttons (or comments), but the fact that RUclips doesn't openly deny those rumors doesn't help their cause.
Can someone explain why this wasn't banned as soon as it was figured out? This is clearly and exploit that once successfully triggered, wins a stock...
@Gaston Anny It was the slippery slope fallacy. If we ban wobbling do we ban wave dashing? Infinite ledge stalls? Shine? All things that are abused for competitive advantages With that being said. Love Wobbles, fuck wobbling
Imagine a glitch that lets you slide into any attack with no repercussions. Or a special that kills the opponent upon doing it right. Or maybe two Or a character that can pull bombs and beam swords from thin air. Or a character whos shield doesn't even cover their body. Or a character who can glitch through the whole stage. Or a character who takes no knockback half the time. Or two characters which are such a cut above the rest, that the competitive community uses them heavily and any other character which can compete either uses gimmicks or has some real flaws. Melee has always been a hodgepodge of a fighting game. A "beautiful mistake" as one person put it. Wobbling may be detrimental to competitive health because it encourages campy behavior and isn't fun, but the same could then be said for puff. Glitches, bugs, and gimmicks have always been a big part of melee. Because of that I'm hesitant about the banning of a glitch that makes a certain character playable.
@@FlamingZelda3 Wobbling is the only thing keeping Ice Climbers viable. Which means that every game you have to play careful to avoid any grabs. Basically, they're characters that are only there to be annoying.
I honestly don't even understand how something like this was allowed at all, dude. Like, you're put into a situation where one guy is basically just going to get a stock off of the other guy as soon as he grabs him, and from what I've been seeing here there isn't much the other person can do unless the wobbler lets them go. The dude getting wobbled doesn't have fun, it isn't interesting for the crowd to watch, and it doesn't even seem like the wobbler is having fun. Legit a cheese tactic where no one wins in the end.
pyre78 it's allowed because people seem to handle it pretty well. If it was good as people make it out to be they'd be the Bayonetta of melee instead of fox
@@stickmic2 Guess we should just ban boring characters. Let's ban Puff, and Marth while we're at it. We see too many Spacies, so let's just ban them too!
Wobbling honestly holds back IC's in the meta. Who knows how many new things could have been discovered if IC's didn't have to focus on a wobble to win? They've got so many nasty tricks outside of the wobble!
@@evileye1199 Yeah. People like him and Wobbles were great for the meta, especially when the pushed the boundaries of what people thought was possible with the character. With the players now, it's just one move, over and over to win.
They don't though. Talking about undiscovered tech for them is as productive as taking about undiscovered tech for the rest of the cast, and there isn't anything new. When you ban wobbling all you're saying is you want to make sure that ices can't beat any other floaty
@@L0Ldude11 another thing in melee is - people don't want to play characters that are seen as lame. but with wobbling banned, any ICs that makes top 16 will be seen as a fucking god and everyone will love them.
That makes no sense. I agree that they can be pushed a bit further, but how can it hold them back? It's literally the objective best punish in the game. There's nothing better. The only way ICs mains are held back are 'cause they sometimes fish for grab in various ways.
@@EpicMinecraftFail sorry if i offended you in any way, it is a serious issue and so little is being done to prevent it, to the point where you feel so helpless all you can do is make jokes.
I enjoy that the kid thought h as such a hardass posing after unearned wins. Theeeeeeeeen his crutch got banned and suddenly he’s a nobody. Sweet justice. Edit: side note, as someone who was never into the melee scene I was wondering how this was let go for so long. Who watched these live and said “nawh totally fair and balanced.”
Jacob Carpenter If they couldn’t kill Nana the hard to protect dumbass. They absolutely deserve it because it is a test of skill on the Icies part to keep their biggest killing tool alive.
@@justice8718 so they can lose a stock because they cant kill Nana? That's like if you got shot in the leg every time you answer an algebra question wrong.
Please read the entire wall of text, I promise you it will be worth your while. All the arguments I see in support of Wobbling boil down to ICs being mediocre even with it. That isn’t the point. The point is is that Wobbling doesn’t make the character too good, it makes the game uncompetitive, un-fun, and overcentralizing. It’s a similar situation as Smogon’s Clauses for Pokemon Singles play: things like Evasion, OHKOs and Endless Battling aren’t allowed because they make the game un-fun and stale. Let’s take the Pokemon Walrein for example (which is funny because ICs and Walrein are both icy characters). Walrein sucks, but it can learn Sheer Cold. If Sheer Cold hits you, it instantly KOs you no questions asked. No rock-paper-scissors prediction needed, no move knowledge needed, no type advantage needed, you just faint instantly should the move land. Does Sheer Cold make Walrein good? No. The move itself is good, but not the Pokemon in general. Because Pokemon that can learn OHKOs are often terrible on their own, having things like Sheer Cold in competition would make the game less about dismantling an opponent’s team and more about stopping yourself from getting Sheer Cold’ed. And because OHKOs like Sheer Cold require no prediction or skill or game knowledge to use in addition to them being boring and uninteresting, they are banned. Wobbling is the same. ICs are fun and interesting to watch, but are mediocre. Wobbling is like Sheer Cold: it takes little prediction or setup to use, takes little mechanical skill and knowledge to use, and it isn’t fun or interesting to watch. It stales the metagame by overcentralizing methods not to beat the Ice Climbers as a character, but to avoid getting grabbed and Wobbled. The ICs aren’t great, but Wobbling is degenerate because it shifts Melee from a challenge of beating your opponent and his or her character and playstyle to literally a game of cat and mouse (if you get caught, or rather grabbed, you die). Watching people play Melee is fun, but watching someone trying constantly to not get grabbed isn’t. It’s boring, agonizing, and, when the inevitable Wobble happens, downright unpleasent. Just like the banning of Sheer Cold and the OHKO moves, banning Wobbling isn’t about making a character worse. It’s about improving players’ experience of the game and making Melee more competitive. Don’t get me wrong, I love watching ICs at the top of their game. But when people like Nintnedude come around and brag about beating top players by Wobbling them for two straight sets, it takes the fun and competition out of a game that in every right can and should be a fun and compeitive experience.
I dont rly agree with your point , Like with one hit ko moves on pokemon , when you see a character with a move like that you have to be prepare to deal with it , with evasion moves you should have a move that dont miss or gives you accuracy, the ice climbers are a especial carácter , they are 2 characters in 1 and from that peculiarity they can chain grab you, banning the moves of a character is just detrimental , you have to play vs the character and them have to play against your character Edit auto correct on other language
Vicmo That’s not fair to say. And if people did that, it would stale the metagame. I explained why that very situation is detrimental to a game’s competitive environment; try rereading the ENTIRE comment.
Also, you can’t prepare for OHKO moves, just like you really can’t prepare for Wobbling. As I said, not getting grabbed is far easier said than done. Furthermore, no one should be forced to use moves that are objectively terrible like Swift and Aerial Ace, just as people should never be forced into games where if they get grabbed they instantly die. Evasion is an objectively dumb mechanic for competition, just as Wobbling is bad for competiive Melee. The point is is that one should never, ever be forced to play sub-optimally to beat a certain tactic or mechanic. It’s not fun, exciting, or remotely interesting to watch and even less so to experience. Imagine if, to beat someone in a fight, the only way to do so would be to blind yourself because looking at your opponent would instantly kill you. Or if someone made you have to write an essay with your non-dominant hand and if you tried otherwise the pen would electrocute you. It’s not fair or fun for anybody, and nobody in their right mind would agree willingly to such things.
@@StarTard8 if is the strategy to counter someone you playing against then is not "suboptimal" "nobody should be forced to play something " and still fox only final destination, if you choose to play a strategy that the game allows you like evasion ,por OHKO (that ussually have low acc) , you still have to deal with your opponent using brave bird to kill you on 1 hit , that forced you to play suboptimal by having a rock wall type , and when spikes and sharp rocks where meta you was forced to play suboptimal to counter with a spinner, Stalling is not a bad thing per se, Btw ice climbers can counter wobbleling, and links can too Edit: suboptimal is very very subbjective in this type of games (if the "suboptimal" way counter the thing you are playing against then is becomes the optimal way) What is the optimal way to counter fox shine?
I think people didn't even understand the bigger picture behind the ban to begin with. It's not that wobbling just instantly makes you lose, it's also that it's not fun to watch. Allowing wobbling in tournaments is like allowing players to just take a pair of scissors and cut their opponent's controller cable. There is no interaction whatsoever in this and it ruins the entertainment. Tournaments thrive off of audiences, they don't just throw money around for fun. Audiences will disappear when the roster is Ice Climbers going for wobbles all the fucking time, it's not fun to watch. If I wanted to watch 1 player while the other waits their turn aka wobbling a dude who can just sit around and watch, I'd be watching a chess match. Fuck wobbling and fuck people who defended it, you know who you are. I really hope for your own sake that you people just said it's balanced to troll everyone because I have serious concerns for your mental health if you actually think an infinite grab into KO is balanced. Seriously, I don't get it. Peach has one advantage which is to stall the game out and that's apparently "forbidden" because it's not fun to watch a Peach stall down the timer under Fountain, yet Ice Climbers were legal for the longest time? These people have double standards man. Either all bullshit should be allowed or none of it. The fact they hold votes and they go 14:4 in favor of banning wobbling shows that there was huge mismanagement or maybe just complete ignorance on behalf of the event planners.
Alright buddy, attack me specifically because I felt like defending it. Such a shame this community is like this. Curse me out all you want. If you aren't going to respect those trying to defend wobbling, but not the players, nobody will respect you in your own argument. Now, on to the argument. Those people have found ways to entertain in those clips. Not to mention, being bored is entirely up to those who are watching. Now if you excuse me, I will not be commenting again.
@@faeire0 I know you said you wouldn't be commenting again, but I wonder what ways to *entertain* were you speaking of? Looks like a bunch of shit to me.
Well most people find Jigglypuff as boring as a slug marathon but should we ban her? No and I feel the same way about every character in fighting games. Unless they actually break the game and make it completely unplayable they shouldn't be banned. The whole "Don't get grabbed" joke has some truth to it too, A good player can learn the Ice Climbers matchup and find ways to beat the climbers. There's a reason why you never have or will see an Ice Climber dominated tournament since there are ways to beat them and once you gain enough experience they can be a breeze to deal with just like every other character. Does this make wobbling fair? No not at all I just think that people blow up how one sided an Ice Climbers matchup can be just like how some people blow up Jigglypuff. Also a competition should never be about the entertainment value it should always be about competition first and entertainment second.
"Crying about patches, I feel like that's a very short term solution. Because yes, one of your problems disappeared, but your biggest problem, which is that you suck, is still there." -Adam "Armada" Lindgren
Is a good quote, but I think it works both ways and in this case it would be good if implemented, because if you suck even when you don't get wobbled, you'll still lose, but if you can't wobble anymore and you suddenly suck, then it shows you would've lost as soon as you faced someone who could outplay a wobbler. In the end, it just takes an effective but boring exploit out of the equation.
patrick pettibone wobbling isn’t fucking skill its cheap people only use it so that they can piss off people better than them instead of actually playing smart they have to wobble only because it grants them a free win not just a free stock A FREE WIN
Commentators always had the dumbest fucking reactions to wobbling, too. "AWWWWW SHIT, HE'S USING THE 0-DEATH TECH EVERY ICE CLIMBERS PLAYER USES!!! EVERY GAME!!!!! 😍😍😍 #Tilted"
@@live2die694 Completely missing the issue. It's not overpowered, its uncompetitive. It's the same kind of logic as Smogon banning double team in pokemon. Double team isnt overpowered, it's just stupid fucking cancer that makes the entire game worse overall to little benefit.
Tony Rodriguez 😁 they need to project M smash ultimate. That would probably be just like melee buuuuuut you know that's never gonna happen with Nintendo on the job
I really hate how the Icies meta revolved around wobbling instead of amazing desync combos, they could have been one of the coolest characters in the game
@@davidarruda8400 That's like saying I should be excited that I beat an Olympic runner by riding a motorbike beside them and smacking them with a stick while they're forced to keep running.
@@PresTsukasa I'm sorry, I forgot that my opinion has to be the same as that of the majority. My apologies for liking puff and being annoyed at an invincible frame 1 move
Imagine learning about a bug that instantly makes you win and marching over to a tournament with actual players using their raw skill to win and stealing the match from them. F I L T H
But you have to grab them first before you can win. It isn’t an instant win technique if it’s something that requires some skill even if only a little bit.
@@TheTrueBrawler you also have to get them to a certain percent, set up a grab so nana is in the right position, and then wobble them and keep a rhythm up. Wobbling is preventable easy and it's why ice climbers don't just win every tournament
@@kevinauduong7677 See, that just emphasizes that DizzKid is such a nice guy outside the game, and I hate seeing him get flak because of his character, but at the same time, I absolutely get it.
I was on the fence, but this video was just the push I needed to decide that Wobbling is a degenerate strategy that needs to go. That "comeback" on Leffen makes me sick.
The only good highlights of ICs was mostly Wobblez and one Fly Amanita highlight. Crazy how both of them arent seen attending tourneys now a days as much feels bad.
Matthew Curiel Wobbles is officially retired and Fly has been on hiatus the past almost 4 years to focus on his Math Doctorate. R.I.P the only two dope ICs mains. Hopefully the ban brings forth a new gen of dope ICs.
@@InAshesWeStand not to b against or for wobbling . From a different standpoint wobbling is a good tool. But my catch is that for nearly every ic committed time into it that they have way more potential than wobbling. If they ban wobbling ur forcing ic to get stronger which will make it harder on u to vs them. It is like taking a small baby to speak for example once they learn how to they have more potential to learn. Sorry if I know it isn't the greatest example. wobbling holds their meta back to why their only a few actually good ics because they don't wobbe . It is a temporary solution for the problem . The problem being what meta has built around for ice climbers . It can be considered the basics for ice climbers . They will come up with more advanced techique and the community is going to hate it cause ur losing not to character but skill that will turn into rage against ics just like how the community wants Jiggs ban yet the only Jiggs doing good is hbox . Ur basically asking for more hungry boxes . I don't like or like the situation but I can say this in maybe a year or 2 melee will rise into a dark age starting with these types of problems
Uhaunted purpose I have to completely disagree. People hate wobbling because it takes 0 skill, Fly style de sync combos take a tremendous amount of skill. Drawing a comparison between current day Hbox and future 20XX Desync no wobble ICs is ridiculous to say the least. And saying banning wobbling will lead to a new dark age legitimately has me dumbfounded. There are so many illogical points here I don’t even know where to begin.
Uhaunted purpose tbh the problem is that there is so much more to learn with ICs but people opt to only exercise one tactic that isnt truly a product of outplay in every scenario (sometimes it is out play but either when it is or isnt out play it leads to a conversion that the opponent cant do anything about). I dont think it should be banned but I hope with it people lab the character more and see that there is still potential with ICs. There is so much endless possibility with the character ... all it takes is a vision, a bit of labbing and faith that you as the one repping the character can fulfill your own vision and showcase it consistently to show the viability of your idea. Wobblez had so many ideas that he managed to show people while he played that I'm suprised no one piggy backed off of his foundation he left and created any more. When there is so much more to learn. Wobbling allowed others to be content with not learning more with the character for some reason.
@@damplamp When you credit somebody for discovering something like this example it implies the definition thats a synonym with invented. I think you're referring to the definition that means found. A good reading comprehension can betray you in this given example. At the end of the day the semantics don't matter though. Wobbles was taught wobbling buy other people was the point of the original comment.
Where did you go, Mr.Pickle? I liked your videos so much, I even took one of your vaporwave Melee outro songs and disguised it as a rip on my channel. Hope to see you soon.
Wobbling just makes the game unfun. It literally just says “oh, you made a single mistake? Well, you don’t get to play the game anymore. I win.” Key words being “you don’t get to play anymore”. Someone on this videos comments made a great comparison of wobbling and OHKO moves in Pokémon. Icy isn’t a great fighter, but neither are a ton of the Pokémon who know moves like sheer cold, or guillotine. The ability to wobble is the ONLY thing that’s makes anyone play icy, in a competitive environment, which is a shame, since they can be fun as hell. Being proud of literally admitting you’re too unskilled to beat your opponent in a legitimate match by wobbling them, is fucking pathetic, plain and simple.
it's no different than getting stuck in any other combo. that single mistake usually gets you setup to die when you play against people good enough to take advantage of your mistakes
Randy Randalman except that you can escape a combo, a combo has an end, and you’re not almost garunteed to die getting caught in a combo at 0% damage. Wobbling is an endless, inescapable combo, barring a mistake on the performers part, or them feeling “merciful.” Combos make a game interesting and fun, wobbling is literally killing someone’s fun because you can, and you feel that you have to win, regardless of the opponent. It’s like going to a casual game of yugioh with some friends and bringing a deck with all 3 god cards and exodia while everyone else is using a normal deck. It just ruins it for everyone else and strokes your ego.
@@Deamons64 You can escape wobble - as shown in multiple examples in the video. Also I don't buy that this strat is so OP like god cards in yugioh. If that were the case, all the top tournament finishes would be IC. It also works on only some characters. Yes it's annoying and looks cheap, but the end result is the same.
Randy Randalman it doesn’t look cheap, it is cheap. And if it was possible to escape from wobbling even remotely consistently, I wouldn’t be complaining. Can you escape, yes, the odds of your escape working and not being immediately punished by getting put literally right back in the wobble, fucking slim. I wouldn’t give a shit about it if it was 1: fair, 2:fun to do/fight against (and it’s neither) or 3: part of the game in a sense outside of high level competitive play, as in would appear in normal strategy guides. Wobbling is NONE of those things, and thus, is on my shit list. And having gone up against basically an entire fucking roster of wobble players during my attempt to get into melee, NOTHING will make me respect wobblers, or like ANYONE who does it consistently.
I honestly think this should have been illegal from the moment it was discovered, just like the IC's freeze exploit. It's just a cheap way to get a kill with very low risk, and super high reward. And as shown in the montage of IC combos at the end of this video, they are capable of so much more than just wobbling.
ICs are useless without wobbling and mediocre with wobbling. Sure the mechanic is dumb but it‘s far from actually being broken as the character using it is just not worth it.
7:54 Just wanted to say that Wobbles did not actually discover wobbling. It's only named after him because at a tournament The King of Smash: Ken, started calling it the wobble after seeing Wobbles using the "Ic's Infinite" in a set. Ever since it started to catch on.
Does anyone know who discovered it? To be fair, multiple people may have discovered it all around the same time, but first to find doesn't mean shit if you don't do anything to publish it. Wobbles popularized it therefore gets the credit, which I think is fair.
I can’t imagine it’s interesting for anyone else. The opponent can literally put down the controller. It’s basically a “you’re not playing the video game anymore” move.
Its about time. You know this tech is cheap if Wobbles himself doesn't use it anymore. The inventor thinks its cheap, the community thinks its cheap, twitch chat hates it, and the only people who support it are the ones who abuse it in bracket. Why was the ice climbers freeze glitch banned in tourny if wobbling does the same thing?
@@ghost1182able maybe inventor actually implies he invented it almost as if the term inventor is used to describe people who invent things. Maybe learn how to use context clues
@@phoenixjc6152Most people aren't going to know the esoteric facts of which japanese dude actually invented wobbling. Most people dont give a shit about it.
Even if you are not the first person to create/ invent something, you could still classify as someone who created/ invented it. *This only works if you have no knowledge that the creation or invention existed before you made it*. Let's say humanoid aliens had invented bicycles 200,000 years ago. This would mean the first person on earth to invent a bicycle... DIDN'T INVENT IT (according to all your logic) Using the logic stated in the first 2 lines of this comment: The first person on earth to invent the bicycle is an inventor of the bicycle. regardless of an alien on another planet making it before him or not. the point being, we can't be sure of who created what first. But we can confirm that the creator didn't know of the existence of the invention already, hence created a new invention within their perspective. Now we apply the same reasoning to wobbles, if wobbles copied someone else, then he didn't invent it. If wobbles didn't copy it, then he created it. regardless of the fact that someone in japan created it before him. As long as the creation isn't copied, it is original. Hence the creator is the creator, the inventor is the inventor. the reason I brought this up is, you lot don't understand that different people can create the same thing, without realizing the other has already created it. hence multiple inventors.
You could get into a Boxing match with a smash player, then they'll pull out a gun and tell you "Dude, just adapt"😂
JR The Hunter
LMAO
the joy emoji makes this 100x funnier
K but just adapt tho it’s not that serious lol
I don't get the joke. Like just don't let me grab the gun like smh adapt.
Ban shine and we can talk. If wobbling is a gun shine is a nuke
Imagine getting wobbled 4stocks 3 games in a row then when you don’t wanna shake the guys hand he pulls out a “Salt” sign
Big Tito right? Shouldn't he be a good player to pull that sign out like that?
He frame perfects the pulling of the sign
HA LOL YOU LOST TO A GRAB AND YOU’RE MAD? TOXIC DUDE LUL XD
@@JimsyFlimsy Please, try a little harder.
Imagine knowing your playstyle is so infuriating and toxic that you make and bring a sign to tournaments just to show it to people after they get frustrated when playing against you.
I love how you can always tell which person is gonna be the one to wobble
Denal _Lives yea the one who’s playing Ice Climbers
Omni Prism True
The one who looks like they don’t go outside.
Except with mew2king
@@0mn1prism59 it's a bit hard to wobble without ice climber lol
The fact that an easily set up infinite to death glitch wasn't banned the second it was found just boggles my mind.
@@ph0g275 You realize that's a fucking stupid comparison since Bayo pretty much killed smash 4s competitive scene right? No one cares about it now that ultimate is out. Not to mention Bayo at least is moderately entertaining to watch, unlike wobbling.
it wobbles my mind
@@ph0g275 if fox's jab instant killee, would that be fair
Wow people arguing over an incorrect point
Wobbling was banned as soon as it began to become common. It was unbanned by EVO for literally no reason in 2013
@@Chair-Son god thank you for commenting this. They unbanned it because infinite combos being legal is standard in the fgc so to stay in evo and keep rulesets alike they kept it legal. Wobbling is definitely not as input intensive as other infinites tho, so 🤷♀️
"I'm getting wobbled in my favorite game, what do I do?"
Lol I'm dead.
If you can’t beat em, join em
My opinion would be get a better favorite game :^)
Tweet probably
@J K but the hand offs can be used on every character so its another way to be wobbled but more difficult, i love it.
@@CocoaBeans101 just jab and attack constantly atay in the air and suddenly wobbling is dead
Every wobblers face is deadpan. Even they know it's not fun.
When one of the two is only after the W no one has fun
@@MrCole62195 I mean everyone is after the W. Just some choose less than savory methods.
@@@DisastrousCake like abusing an exploit. Melee was such trash lmao
@@BlackBoxGamers wavedashing isn't an exploit. It's coded in the game to specifically work like that. Sakurai just didn't expect it to be used like that.
Also there's a difference between a technique everyone can use and one that only one character can use with little to no drawbacks
Gotta get that moolah
"Just don't get grabbed."
- *wobbling rate drops to 0*
Or grab them before they even grab you
-marth and Samus
"Wobbling takes skill; you've gotta press A really fast."
-an actual human being, allegedly
Captain Doomsday don’t forget, you have to hold down on your handy dandy GameCube analog stick (which your opponent wants to slap out of your hands)
@@Unluckyfawn If you want to add skill to wobbling, make it legal to attack wobblers, so they have to perform the operation while dodging IRL counterattacks.
Captain Doomsday I would just sing stall with puff the entire set. Not technically banned (yet) just like wobbling
Captain Doomsday or pull a Fortune and “accidentally unplug my opponents controller by stomping”
It actually has to be timed (180BPM), you can't just mash it. Isn't that hard but you can still drop it
Notice the huge difference between hand offs/combos and wobbling. Some of the opponents actuallynlook impressed or entertained and have a laugh. Wobbling there is silent contempt
Hand offs to me are some of the coolest things melee has to offer. Wobbeling tho is just weird. I wouldnt mind it if people can wobble when down 2 stocks but seeing sets like none or west just makes you hate the game
The one at 8:27 was pretty dope
I'd call it silent murder intent.
@@johnnybravo8664 7:50 though.
“Wobbling does mentally get in your mind.”
I read this right as they said it. I'm dead!! 😂😂😂😂
If you don't have high mind stat, you'll literally break down.
Most techniques physically get in your mind.
Imagine last game of finals, last stock, and you get it.
It’s redundant lol
Shoutout to ice players who don't rely on Wobbling to win.
Sadly, they are very rare specimens.
Check out some of the smash ultimate disjointed ice climber combos, they’re pretty crazy, they give you hope in ice climbers again. 😂💀
@Ronan Dre I remember them because of the Desync combos in ultimate, and the weird moments where Nana actually knows what to do. My favourite thing about them was NOT to grab, but that 40% damage an unreactable and uncharged down smash.
Where?
@EMERSON FITTS i disagree completely, the only people planking are doing it to ice climbers, and m2k. But m2k is a whole different matter he thinks there should be a ledge grab limit to characters that he doesnt play. Imagine being an ice climbers player that wobbled people for 3 years and then complain that jiggly puff players dont let you play the game, when your entire career is banning your opponent from playing the game.
"Yeah I like melee because it's fast paced and exciting"
Creeeamy
Yeah compared to the other games it is.
Henlo and welcome to r/woosh
Aren't we all glad wobbling was banned.
Don’t act like you know anyone in person that’s ever had to break the game to beat you.
You’re only finding bugs and glitches at the highest levels of competition where people are breaking the game through a lifetime of playing. That’s /never/ going to happen with the other games because of how locked into place the mechanics are.
@Tangy Oranges someone's salty.
It amazes me that Bayonetta was booed at in Smash 4 tournaments yet this is entirely okay by their standards.
Bayonetta is a bit worse than wobbling in my opinion : )))))))))))
@@ikki-gaming8933 At least you can SDI from bayonetta's combos, even you it's really hard and stupid.
Once you get wobbled, all you can do is sit here and watch.
When was she booed?
@@001shadowknight during the Smash 4 grand finale of Evo 2018, because they didn't like that Lima and Captain Zack, two bayo main made it to finale.
This resulted into the infamous Bayonetta standoff which was pretty much a big "fuck you" to the crowd booing them.
As a Bayo fan I'm so glad she got hella nerfed in ultimate so people can stop bitching about her :^)
JuSt DoN't GeT gRaBbEd
JuST WiN a TOurNaMEnt
Johnathan Vodraska
JuSt DoN’t GeT hIt
If bayonetta players played Melee
they would play icies
juSt DoNt DiE
JuSt dOnT plAy AgaInsT iCies
7:05
"He looks so focused on the Wobble right now."
Like performing Wobbles requires an inkling of focus.
what a cunty thing to say too lol
@EMERSON FITTS You need very little practice to keep doing it tho. I think the window is like 3-5 frames wide at very least.
@@nivyan dude you ever had a crowd yelling at you? It's hard
@@thel33tpenguinftw40 Actually, yeah 😂
Mostly good, but I totally get your point - there's many examples of failing it from high level players - so it's not a free stock. That being said, a 3-4 frame combo with no opposition is vastly easier than outplaying an opponent. That's most people's point: It takes a lot of gameplay away from the match up.
Compare this to Zangief from Street Fighter, where you need setups and a lot of reading your opponent to win a round. Snake Eyes is extremely impressive and entertaining to watch - the direct opposite of a single grab into KO
@@thel33tpenguinftw40 lol hard to press a button while getting yelled at
what kind of person do you have to be to compete in a game where 99% of the people you're playing against legitimately hate you
and they all just sit there like "ah well unlucky pal just dont get grabbed :))"
Because wobbling makes it so they dont have to focus hard on punish more neutral specifically grabs
a shameless one.
A person doesn't care about 99% of people's opinion, especially when 99% of those people don't get the same results they do.
@YGuy1 he makes a valid point my guy. Also, insulting with gay lord? Real creative.
YGuy1
Bruh it’s not that deep, they’re just saying "if they’re winning and are being ranked better, then they don’t care about the opinions of 99% of players since they’re not classified 'as good'". It’s not like they’re saying "well you’re just worse than a wobbler so you don’t matter"
When nintendude pops off after winning with a wobble a part of me dies inside
If anyone pops off because they won due to wobbling it's just sad. It doesnt show any mastery over the game or sportsmanship when you get one grab per stock and its over without the other guy even being able to do anything about it. It would be like if one team in basketball was allowed to dribble outside the lines, or a team in baseball wasnt allowed to have anything pitched against them except straights right over the middle of the plate. You could probably still win under those conditions but it just defeats the purpose of playing.
amen dude cant wait to see wobblers flounder and fail at GOML 2019
Wisnam Nintendude is a good player with or without wobbling. Yeah wobbling helps all of them, but I’m pretty sure he popped off because he made top 8 against a player who often gives him trouble
He popped off because he beat one of the best Melee players off all time in a matchup that is extremely difficult for ICs. Don't blame him for using everything at his disposal to win, blame the game or the rule-set.
Lain there’s a reason we don’t know that
how u gonna pop off after wobbling to win
Only people who don't wash their hands after using the bathroom do that.
KingXOreo so every melee player
adamisaninja20 osslkskjdbebeblslwknwnwlkkgckck
The type of guy that has a cigarette after jerking off.
just like nintendude did
Ice Climbers have so much potential for being hype af, but wobbling is so easy that there is literally no point in trying to lab new and creative stuff.
Unless you're the kind who says "Fuck the Meta" and rush in with whatever character you like
Are you insane? Just because Chun has SA2 in 3S doesn't mean that you never lab with her.
Fauxebro did s tournament with no wobbling and it was pretty cool ngl
@@illford and then he got stuck because some ICs matchups are literally impossible without wobbling
Ice climbers have so much potential? Character hasnt won a major in 20 years. But let's ban it's most affective move anyways.
Man, imagine an exploit allowing people to do 150% damage and kill off one grab where there's nothing you can do to escape it, and people tried to defend it.
It's true that you can't escape it, but you can avoid it by not getting caught. The fact that Wobbles isn't played in 100% of the games shows that this technique isn't game breaking. It's annoying for sure, but you can outplay your opponent.
@@JoaoBatista-yq4ml
"JuSt DoNt GeT gRaBbEd" is basically your defence
@@JoaoBatista-yq4ml not even the god slayer could avoid it
@@JoaoBatista-yq4ml Just don't get grabbed 4Head
@@Theron101 Exactly. Instead of banning things that you dislike you just need to git gud.
I feel the sadness of a thousand wobble victims when I see M2K frowning like that
Yeah that was so sad
Cvo777 yeah that breaks my heart. It’s literally so insanely unfair and I don’t even play Melee except for pure fun (and I haven’t played in forever). Really sad man. Also your profile picture is amazing.
4Sythia Shaymin thank you, i’m a fan of apollo lol
Watching that IC's player drop the wobble at 3:42 and then immediately lose is extremely satisfying
No, no it's not. The one thing you never want to happen, is for a player to lose against themselves instead of their opponent. It's way more satisfying when they never get a single good grab off imho.
@@dddmemaybe but he did lose against his opponent
Flipsy vs lucky: Flipsy drops the wobble last stock game 2, loses. Then proceeds to drop 10 more the next game
dio won game 3 with a 4 stock lol
@@dddmemaybe are you dumb
The melee community should be embarassed about how long they allowed wobbling tbh
benackdrums wobbling isn’t that bad, sure it’s a zero to death move but pro’s adapted to it by speeding up their gameplay never stand still or hold shield for too long, also iceclimbers is (or are idk) a really bad character and is bottom tier so wobbling is all they have
@@hoi8125 any fighting game with an infinite 0 to death is a joke
Canjuju not really, i mean melee lived a good long life but i guess that people should let it go for now since it’s so old
jess camara kinda unnecessary to call me a retard, just to be clear I don’t support Ice climbers players but i’m just saying that wobbling is the only thing that makes iceclimbers viable
@@hoi8125 Getting a grab isn't that difficult. If you make a single mistake, it shouldn't cost you a life.
Goddammit, you know Wobbling is bad when you start feeling bad for Leffen.
People thought Ultimate might kill Melee, but instead Melee is killing Melee!
Melee never needed help to kill itself.
Let’s just ban the best part of every character
its kinda the community cannibalizing itself...
who thought ultimate would kill melee, melee has a huge difference in speed that makes it competitive. but melee community will kill itself
@@dylanhinkel3548 quite a lot surprisingly, though i believe the communities will coe exist
*Sniffs* "Yea, I'm a pro Melee player, I've 4 stocked the greats."
Picks Ice Climbers
Said nobody ever.
@@UmbreonMessiah 500 likes tho
@@UmbreonMessiah RUclips comments are serious business
*proceeds to destroy without wobbling*
UmbreonMessiah lol
If you die by wobbling, you have every right to be pissed off. I feel so bad for leffen when he had a 3 stock lead and got wobbled 3 out of his 4 stocks and lost
Leffen missing his tech and di-ing dash attack super wrong didn’t help
- Intelligent Smash Player
3 stocks lead, because you cannot have more than 4 lives in melee tournaments.
That's what happens when you join a match knowing what is allowed to happen; the thing that you know and agreed might happen might happen.
No you don't. And also if you lose with such a big advantage it's not wobbling's fault.
That's the equivalent of bringing a gun to a UFC match
Like that guy who got savagely punched in the balls until he submitted.
"jUsT dOn'T gEt ShOt."
Why Was This The Truest Statement I’ve Ever Read
It's the equivalent of bringing a gun to a UFC match after the UFC announces that guns are allowed, more like.
Icies aren't even top tier dude. They're not even high tier. They're like a strong mid-tier.
it’s even worse when you get wobbled and they act like they’re good
I mean they got the grab. And these players could beat you without it
@@Tryhardblackguy If they could beat me without it then they really shouldn't be doing it
@@Tryhardblackguy getting a grab is easy as hell.. that was a very poor choice of words sir..
I've yet to see a ice climber(player) that can win without wobble
And I just watch smash(don't play it)
@@arcadescrub5138 they showed Wobbles (the guy who originally popularized the technique but stopped using it because he thinks its too cheesy) at the end of the video winning as Ice Climbers without wobbling.
I remember going to my first Melee tournament at the University of Rochester. I wasn't really a great player, but I had some pretty high hopes that I at least might be able to make it a round or two in before getting dumpstered by the veterans since I'd played pretty casually with friends before. The first round, my opponent picked Ice Climbers and wobbled every stock he could. Once the set was over, he looked me in the eyes, smiled, and said "Good games."
I haven't attended a Melee event since.
cute white boy Did you punch him in the face? I would’ve.
this exact thing happened to my second local ever, I got four stocked game two even though game one it was last stock to last stock. All four stocks wobbled, I played a LITTLE lazier and got wobbled all four stocks and tilted because I lost the first two to easy shield grabs (which was my fault but the punish is just fucking ridiculously brutal) then I sighed and the wobbler just fucking laughed. never went to a local there again because the ex marth player who turned into a wobbler started magically winning locals more often
@@ActualVital Unfortunately not, but it was probably for the best. He was very small and skinny, so he would've been seriously hurt in all likelihood.
That sucks man. It’s a crutch of a technique that at best can only help to encourage the player’s development of the rest of an arsenal that IC’s have at their disposal. At that point, I don’t see the move having much more significance in the meta of the game if it can’t even necessarily help IC players net wins at the top tournament level.
I do think it was right to keep it in and test it’s place in the game overtime, in order to not set any ban happy precedent. But since the character has developed to a fairly competent point in being able to understand their full potential, I don’t think the IC’s necessarily need that move anymore to carry them if it’s no longer significantly contributing to their meta-game.
Couple of babies lmao
Notice how every wobbler looks like a megavirgin
lol i did notice this. i think it takes a certain level of self hate and shamelessness to wobble, usually only achieved by the extreme incels.
2:18 he looks like the biggest virgin.
every single melee player looks like an absolute megavirgin. especially the top level ones.
Gotta love how people who play the game by the rules are mocked because they win so easily. If it isn't banned, why not use it? It's entirely fair and silly to say it isn't if it isn't banned.
Nah man Chudat is a chad
Yeah I don’t blame them for being salty, imagine playing long and hard for this moment and someone does this
Years of Academy Training wasted!
-Ms. Nesbit
a man of culture, i see
It only took 18 years.
It was banned before
That fact that it was banned later rather than sooner is I think a good thing. Tournaments left it to be tested in the competitive scene, and it never got absurdly out of hand where allowed. Contentious sure, but waiting to ban it was the right thing (even if that wait was very long). Sure, it could have been sooner according to some people’s preference. But the fact that IC’s have never been at the very top in placing a major victory probably just prolonged the tolerance process for wobbling up to this point. The IC’s still grew in other areas as their meta progressed, and in a way carried the long technical processes of implementing the rest of IC’s kit into a actual matches via that crutch. Honestly to me that’s what wobbling has been for the IC’s specifically; a crutch for the rest of their toolkit to properly be explored and developed. I think it’s served a decent purpose.
Hi newfriend
I don't even play melee, but watching this...how is this still allowed?
Jacob Smith it’s banned in majority of competitions
I found it bullshit that this tech wasn’t banned since the beginning
Elijah Niles it’s legal in 99% of all tournaments including majors. Only in the past week has it been getting banned.
The argument against banning it is that ICs aren't a top tier character even with the technique. Not saying I agree or disagree, but that's the argument.
because the melee community is retarded
Almost cried at 6:47 I just want to give him a hug he looks like he worked so hard to get to where he was only to be pushed down by cheese. #nomorewobbling
*pops off using a scummy exploit*
Me: What’re you even getting excited about? For basically cheesing out a win?
All of melee tech are exploits
Hey, if you can make money and you have go pay money to win, might as well abuse the fact that they are using a non competitive party game.
The game isnt balanced so, who cares?
Mngalahad Why are you here then?
@@misterc9641 Yeah, but some take like, three buttons or more.
@@misterc9641 no they arent
Isn't it ironic that a man named Wobbles is the best non-wobbling IC player?
You know it's named after him right...?
@@MeEncantaMoss yeah, that's what I think is funny. I actually know Wobbles personally since 2006. The man is a beast
@@MeEncantaMoss r/whoooosh
@@vanquisher4700 ur dum
@@BlueAizu_ it was not made clear in the original comment that the poster knew wobbles discovered the tech. He should have said "isn't it ironic the guy who discovered wobbling never does it?"
Don't ban wobbling, just use the offbeat "Drop it" chant
No fuck wobbling it's literally uncompetitive. Wobbling is the no skill, lazy way of getting into competitive for putting in half the amount of time into the game as other people. Wobbling should have been banned along time ago. I have no respect for Wobblers.
I love how these guys look so focused while wobbling, as if they're inputting some super difficult combo 🤣
(@@Handwritinghelp) lol ok
The crowd when someone wobbles is just so disappointed
"west is not happy about this" why would he XD he just got wobbled 4 time
14 times in that set
i thought he got wobbled 11 times only
@@carlosreynoso3870 i just saw 4 in this clip
@@christianrincon4038 "Only"
6:00 : West is not happy about that
6:19 : West in not happy about that
6:35 NOW West is happy about that, look at this "laugh" (he's thinking about a way to kill him self and it made him laugh)
Why none of those degenerates abusing this exploit didn't get boo'd off stage is beyond me.
Degenerate is right, it's almost as if they're playing an outdated party game
Because the melee community relies on exploits. They have no skill outside of that.
@@BigHailFan smash 4 baby detected
And there's the melee fanboys now.~ why'd you like your own comment?~
@@w0rldw1dew3b All smash games take no skill, all cheap moves and strategies because the games don't have any type of fundamental mechanics.
7:15 was appalling to watch. No sportsmanship whatsoever.
Sninctbur wobbles is a mega virgin
@@SuperSlimsheedy That ain't wobbles, homie
FishSandman either way the point still stands. That’s how forgettable these icies are
SuperSlimsheedy also Wobblez is the one respectable ICs player so idk about that one
Lord Maximis shit bro I’m j talkin Bout the boi who wobbled m2k. The icy players are easily forgettable to me because the play style is lazy.
3:46 The most well-deserved taunt of ALL TIME.
It really wasnt. He gave him a free chance and he IMMEDIATELY unpaired him offstage. Just cuz they're ICs doesnt nean a fix should get praised for his crowd
@@mustard8148 So you're saying that accidentally dropping an infinite that would've won him the game guaranteed, and Fox taking advantage of it, is not deserved?
Are you from a different solar system?
@@MegaJohnization no because it wasn't a accident. He was gifted the free game. So it wasnt really deserved
@@mustard8148 Whatever you say, mate.
@@mustard8148 bro literally anybody who ever does a wobble is gifted a free stock lol
Everybody be acting gangster until 2 eskimo children show up
" Gangster" who says that 🤦🏾♂️
And then everyone starts bitching bout their ability to wobble. Like shit just admit that watching it bores you, don't just say "buh huh I want it banned because I'm a gigantic man baby"
@@chestergrimes3 your dad did, but you wouldnt know that
@@xato-1 -when white people try to roast 😴
.. next
@@stickmic2 🤦🏽♂️ I'm saying ya folks don't Kno how to roast . Y'all don't Kno how to properly fry someone . It's always cringy or something corny
From the beginning it shouldn't have been allowed in a professional competitive setting.
It wasn't. Then it was. Now it's not.
Should have been nerfed
Smash bros shouldn’t be a professional competitive setting
If you're gonna ban Wobbling you might as well ban wavedashing as well.
also lol @ professional competive setting, it's a fucking cartoon fighting game
FUC3 it is a cartoon fighting game that people play professionally in a competitive setting and make money off of it. Fortnite is a cartoon shooting game that people dance in and it is played competitively for millions of dollars. So I don't really know what you're talking about.
1:04 "What are you clapping for"
Never played Melee, but I play other fighting games and "wobbling" cropped up in my recommendations so - from a completely objective point of view.
Wobbling is hilarious, the absolute fuckin' *audacity* to do that on a stage is quite commendable.
(Obviously should be banned though)
People making comments like this are always idiotic.
sigurdtheblue Yeah I agree your comment is pretty idiotic, but don't be so hard on yourself.
@@sigurdtheblue in what way is his comment idiotic? It's well articulated and no grammatical errors. And his opinion is his opinion, which I agree with cuz fuck wobbling and double FUCK the people doing it during a tournament
@@justinbean971 If it's not banned, of course people will do it. The guy knows nothing about melee and he's saying that Wobbling "objectively" should be banned.
@@sptflcrw8583 You really don't need to play Melee to get the general run down on Wobbling and immediately think "Well that's not fucking fair, that should be banned".
RUclips: Our Rewind video is the most disliked video of all time.
Me: That's cute, watch this. _Titles video "In Defense of Wobbling"_
nah, they'd never admit that
@@mlo12345 True, they would rather get rid of the dislike button and comments before admitting that.
@@blazingblight2706, @Noah I thought one of the higher ups said they would do better after hearing her kids say the rewind was cringy...
Sadly this is too small of a controversy to get 15+ million dislikes. Not enough melee players who know what it is to dislike the video, let alone hear about it.
@@lordjaraxxus5418 That's a good point, I do remember that. RUclips as a whole though has given me and most sources that other opinion that they just don't seem to care enough about their audience's and creators' opinions anymore.
I haven't verified the rumor about the removal of dislike buttons (or comments), but the fact that RUclips doesn't openly deny those rumors doesn't help their cause.
🦀 WOBBLING IS BANNED 🦀
JPC hey I found you
About DAMN TIME
That will definitely stop hbox from winning every tournament
@@mcturtleton1256 whoosh
should have been from the moment it was discovered
“Wobbling does mentally get in your mind” - La Luna aka The Moon
"Woah there, I know war is scary son, but hasn't anyone told you to just not get shot?"
Wow not being able to control your character after one mistake
*F a s c i n a t i n g*
It's like playing Fighterz
Dakota Brown Except in FighterZ you stop getting stuck in an attack at some point
git gud tho
@@ragglerock2682 lol yeah so you couldn't. I don't get shot, noob
@@CaptainDoomsday r/iamverybadass
Keep Wobbling legal, but let the player being wobbled lightly punch his captor's shoulder in time with the wobble
Protean
if they mistime it they have to SD
why not a punch in the Nose?
No they should hit out of timing to throw them off
@@kb3931 you're absolutely right
Fuck that. Right out hard sucker punch to the fucking nose should be about right. Let's see that salt sign right after a cold knuckle sandwich.
im getting wobbled in my favorite game is one of the best melee tweets ever
Can someone explain why this wasn't banned as soon as it was figured out? This is clearly and exploit that once successfully triggered, wins a stock...
Because without it, Ices can’t combo floaty characters.
@Gaston Anny wobbling works on any character, I think they were saying that wobbling is Ice Climber's only combo against floaties like Jigglypuff
@Gaston Anny It was the slippery slope fallacy. If we ban wobbling do we ban wave dashing? Infinite ledge stalls? Shine? All things that are abused for competitive advantages
With that being said. Love Wobbles, fuck wobbling
It was banned way back when. Then was legalized at Evo 2012 or 13 and has sense been a plague.
Even the ice climber player looks bored winning lol
Imagine a glitch that kills the enemy opponent upon doing it right.
ruclips.net/video/zyylKx0Jgg8/видео.html
Daft Punk’s Doing it right.
Imagine a glitch that lets you slide into any attack with no repercussions.
Or a special that kills the opponent upon doing it right.
Or maybe two
Or a character that can pull bombs and beam swords from thin air.
Or a character whos shield doesn't even cover their body.
Or a character who can glitch through the whole stage.
Or a character who takes no knockback half the time.
Or two characters which are such a cut above the rest, that the competitive community uses them heavily and any other character which can compete either uses gimmicks or has some real flaws.
Melee has always been a hodgepodge of a fighting game. A "beautiful mistake" as one person put it. Wobbling may be detrimental to competitive health because it encourages campy behavior and isn't fun, but the same could then be said for puff.
Glitches, bugs, and gimmicks have always been a big part of melee. Because of that I'm hesitant about the banning of a glitch that makes a certain character playable.
@@FlamingZelda3 Wobbling is the only thing keeping Ice Climbers viable. Which means that every game you have to play careful to avoid any grabs. Basically, they're characters that are only there to be annoying.
A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A
True combo total skill
He dropped the wobble. Not giving into sin. And lost with respect. He has courage
I honestly don't even understand how something like this was allowed at all, dude.
Like, you're put into a situation where one guy is basically just going to get a stock off of the other guy as soon as he grabs him, and from what I've been seeing here there isn't much the other person can do unless the wobbler lets them go.
The dude getting wobbled doesn't have fun, it isn't interesting for the crowd to watch, and it doesn't even seem like the wobbler is having fun. Legit a cheese tactic where no one wins in the end.
pyre78 it's allowed because people seem to handle it pretty well. If it was good as people make it out to be they'd be the Bayonetta of melee instead of fox
@@stickmic2 Guess we should just ban boring characters. Let's ban Puff, and Marth while we're at it. We see too many Spacies, so let's just ban them too!
@@stickmic2 You missed my point. I'm saying we shouldn't just ban anything we don't like.
@@stickmic2 Then let's ban Falco short hop laser, or Fox's shine, or wavedashing.
Why does it matter if it’s an exploit
Wobbling honestly holds back IC's in the meta. Who knows how many new things could have been discovered if IC's didn't have to focus on a wobble to win? They've got so many nasty tricks outside of the wobble!
Thats why Fly Aminita was my favourite player before his retirement. He was an IC's who did crazy handoffs and just didn't wobble. At all
@@evileye1199 Yeah. People like him and Wobbles were great for the meta, especially when the pushed the boundaries of what people thought was possible with the character. With the players now, it's just one move, over and over to win.
They don't though. Talking about undiscovered tech for them is as productive as taking about undiscovered tech for the rest of the cast, and there isn't anything new. When you ban wobbling all you're saying is you want to make sure that ices can't beat any other floaty
@@L0Ldude11 another thing in melee is - people don't want to play characters that are seen as lame. but with wobbling banned, any ICs that makes top 16 will be seen as a fucking god and everyone will love them.
That makes no sense. I agree that they can be pushed a bit further, but how can it hold them back? It's literally the objective best punish in the game. There's nothing better. The only way ICs mains are held back are 'cause they sometimes fish for grab in various ways.
wobblers are the school shooters of melee
the edge...it stings
Please don't joke about that, I know you will anyways but please don't.
@@EpicMinecraftFail sorry if i offended you in any way, it is a serious issue and so little is being done to prevent it, to the point where you feel so helpless all you can do is make jokes.
Oof, judging by the replies I guess I'm the only person that laughed at this
Ephixium nah i laughed too
Imagine popping after a wobble
I enjoy that the kid thought h as such a hardass posing after unearned wins. Theeeeeeeeen his crutch got banned and suddenly he’s a nobody. Sweet justice.
Edit: side note, as someone who was never into the melee scene I was wondering how this was let go for so long. Who watched these live and said “nawh totally fair and balanced.”
Watching people do crazy shit with Icees actually looks so much cooler than wobbling. Glad to see that its getting banned at GOML.
I agree, I remember pre-ultimate when people thought that this was a NERF.
It’s not even a penny as practical and safe as wobbling. It looks cool but it only looks cool.
@@justice8718 true I guess, but I think the primary point was that doing that instead of wobbling mskes you far more respectable as a skilled player.
Jacob Carpenter If they couldn’t kill Nana the hard to protect dumbass. They absolutely deserve it because it is a test of skill on the Icies part to keep their biggest killing tool alive.
@@justice8718 so they can lose a stock because they cant kill Nana? That's like if you got shot in the leg every time you answer an algebra question wrong.
Please read the entire wall of text, I promise you it will be worth your while.
All the arguments I see in support of Wobbling boil down to ICs being mediocre even with it.
That isn’t the point.
The point is is that Wobbling doesn’t make the character too good, it makes the game uncompetitive, un-fun, and overcentralizing. It’s a similar situation as Smogon’s Clauses for Pokemon Singles play: things like Evasion, OHKOs and Endless Battling aren’t allowed because they make the game un-fun and stale.
Let’s take the Pokemon Walrein for example (which is funny because ICs and Walrein are both icy characters). Walrein sucks, but it can learn Sheer Cold. If Sheer Cold hits you, it instantly KOs you no questions asked. No rock-paper-scissors prediction needed, no move knowledge needed, no type advantage needed, you just faint instantly should the move land. Does Sheer Cold make Walrein good? No. The move itself is good, but not the Pokemon in general. Because Pokemon that can learn OHKOs are often terrible on their own, having things like Sheer Cold in competition would make the game less about dismantling an opponent’s team and more about stopping yourself from getting Sheer Cold’ed. And because OHKOs like Sheer Cold require no prediction or skill or game knowledge to use in addition to them being boring and uninteresting, they are banned.
Wobbling is the same. ICs are fun and interesting to watch, but are mediocre. Wobbling is like Sheer Cold: it takes little prediction or setup to use, takes little mechanical skill and knowledge to use, and it isn’t fun or interesting to watch. It stales the metagame by overcentralizing methods not to beat the Ice Climbers as a character, but to avoid getting grabbed and Wobbled. The ICs aren’t great, but Wobbling is degenerate because it shifts Melee from a challenge of beating your opponent and his or her character and playstyle to literally a game of cat and mouse (if you get caught, or rather grabbed, you die).
Watching people play Melee is fun, but watching someone trying constantly to not get grabbed isn’t. It’s boring, agonizing, and, when the inevitable Wobble happens, downright unpleasent. Just like the banning of Sheer Cold and the OHKO moves, banning Wobbling isn’t about making a character worse. It’s about improving players’ experience of the game and making Melee more competitive. Don’t get me wrong, I love watching ICs at the top of their game. But when people like Nintnedude come around and brag about beating top players by Wobbling them for two straight sets, it takes the fun and competition out of a game that in every right can and should be a fun and compeitive experience.
You make a good point, I agree.
I dont rly agree with your point ,
Like with one hit ko moves on pokemon , when you see a character with a move like that you have to be prepare to deal with it , with evasion moves you should have a move that dont miss or gives you accuracy, the ice climbers are a especial carácter , they are 2 characters in 1 and from that peculiarity they can chain grab you, banning the moves of a character is just detrimental , you have to play vs the character and them have to play against your character
Edit auto correct on other language
Vicmo
That’s not fair to say. And if people did that, it would stale the metagame. I explained why that very situation is detrimental to a game’s competitive environment; try rereading the ENTIRE comment.
Also, you can’t prepare for OHKO moves, just like you really can’t prepare for Wobbling. As I said, not getting grabbed is far easier said than done.
Furthermore, no one should be forced to use moves that are objectively terrible like Swift and Aerial Ace, just as people should never be forced into games where if they get grabbed they instantly die. Evasion is an objectively dumb mechanic for competition, just as Wobbling is bad for competiive Melee.
The point is is that one should never, ever be forced to play sub-optimally to beat a certain tactic or mechanic. It’s not fun, exciting, or remotely interesting to watch and even less so to experience.
Imagine if, to beat someone in a fight, the only way to do so would be to blind yourself because looking at your opponent would instantly kill you. Or if someone made you have to write an essay with your non-dominant hand and if you tried otherwise the pen would electrocute you. It’s not fair or fun for anybody, and nobody in their right mind would agree willingly to such things.
@@StarTard8 if is the strategy to counter someone you playing against then is not "suboptimal" "nobody should be forced to play something " and still fox only final destination, if you choose to play a strategy that the game allows you like evasion ,por OHKO (that ussually have low acc) , you still have to deal with your opponent using brave bird to kill you on 1 hit , that forced you to play suboptimal by having a rock wall type , and when spikes and sharp rocks where meta you was forced to play suboptimal to counter with a spinner,
Stalling is not a bad thing per se,
Btw ice climbers can counter wobbleling, and links can too
Edit: suboptimal is very very subbjective in this type of games (if the "suboptimal" way counter the thing you are playing against then is becomes the optimal way)
What is the optimal way to counter fox shine?
I think people didn't even understand the bigger picture behind the ban to begin with. It's not that wobbling just instantly makes you lose, it's also that it's not fun to watch. Allowing wobbling in tournaments is like allowing players to just take a pair of scissors and cut their opponent's controller cable. There is no interaction whatsoever in this and it ruins the entertainment. Tournaments thrive off of audiences, they don't just throw money around for fun. Audiences will disappear when the roster is Ice Climbers going for wobbles all the fucking time, it's not fun to watch. If I wanted to watch 1 player while the other waits their turn aka wobbling a dude who can just sit around and watch, I'd be watching a chess match.
Fuck wobbling and fuck people who defended it, you know who you are. I really hope for your own sake that you people just said it's balanced to troll everyone because I have serious concerns for your mental health if you actually think an infinite grab into KO is balanced.
Seriously, I don't get it. Peach has one advantage which is to stall the game out and that's apparently "forbidden" because it's not fun to watch a Peach stall down the timer under Fountain, yet Ice Climbers were legal for the longest time? These people have double standards man. Either all bullshit should be allowed or none of it. The fact they hold votes and they go 14:4 in favor of banning wobbling shows that there was huge mismanagement or maybe just complete ignorance on behalf of the event planners.
Alright buddy, attack me specifically because I felt like defending it. Such a shame this community is like this.
Curse me out all you want. If you aren't going to respect those trying to defend wobbling, but not the players, nobody will respect you in your own argument.
Now, on to the argument. Those people have found ways to entertain in those clips. Not to mention, being bored is entirely up to those who are watching.
Now if you excuse me, I will not be commenting again.
@@faeire0 omg this is the best copypasta I've ever seen
@@faeire0 I know you said you wouldn't be commenting again, but I wonder what ways to *entertain* were you speaking of? Looks like a bunch of shit to me.
Elemental Rice the reason he doesn’t want to comment again is because he won’t be able to get another logical point across.
Well most people find Jigglypuff as boring as a slug marathon but should we ban her? No and I feel the same way about every character in fighting games. Unless they actually break the game and make it completely unplayable they shouldn't be banned. The whole "Don't get grabbed" joke has some truth to it too, A good player can learn the Ice Climbers matchup and find ways to beat the climbers. There's a reason why you never have or will see an Ice Climber dominated tournament since there are ways to beat them and once you gain enough experience they can be a breeze to deal with just like every other character. Does this make wobbling fair? No not at all I just think that people blow up how one sided an Ice Climbers matchup can be just like how some people blow up Jigglypuff. Also a competition should never be about the entertainment value it should always be about competition first and entertainment second.
"Crying about patches, I feel like that's a very short term solution. Because yes, one of your problems disappeared, but your biggest problem, which is that you suck, is still there."
-Adam "Armada" Lindgren
That's a fantastic quote
Is a good quote, but I think it works both ways and in this case it would be good if implemented, because if you suck even when you don't get wobbled, you'll still lose, but if you can't wobble anymore and you suddenly suck, then it shows you would've lost as soon as you faced someone who could outplay a wobbler. In the end, it just takes an effective but boring exploit out of the equation.
That is a giant misquote lol.
Without wobbling: Almost gets 4 stocked
With wobbling: Easily reverse 4-stocks
If no one sees the problem here, I'm out.
I really don't understand how anyone can defend wobbling.
Because seeing the yayuhzz gives my soul life
The only people who defend wobbling are those who use it as a crutch.
@@sasaki999pro or you know people who prefer competitive games be catered to the the top instead of your scrub ass. respectfully a spectator.
patrick pettibone wobbling isn’t skill lol
patrick pettibone wobbling isn’t fucking skill its cheap people only use it so that they can piss off people better than them instead of actually playing smart they have to wobble only because it grants them a free win not just a free stock A FREE WIN
Wonder how these players feel knowing they'll never win anything ever again.
Ice climbers even with wobbling NEVER won anyghing to begin with
They still are pretty good lmao. I mean Fauxebro almost won without wobbling but got camped by Chango with puff
@@youngkingswagger yeah because even a brain dead exploit can't bridge the skill gap after a while.
probably the same as you do, except they've won more than you ever will lol
Commentators always had the dumbest fucking reactions to wobbling, too.
"AWWWWW SHIT, HE'S USING THE 0-DEATH TECH EVERY ICE CLIMBERS PLAYER USES!!! EVERY GAME!!!!! 😍😍😍 #Tilted"
Those who use the woobling have the face. The exact face, for use the woobling.
Yeah fucking Nintendude, DizzKidBoogie, and Army. I can't stand their faces.
Nintendude has the most punchable face I've seen in Melee
-_____________- lemme get muh win
Nintendude has the audacity to call himself a top level professional Melee player. That kills me on the inside.
@@phil_matic good
I been saying this shit since 2012 when I left the scene
You can still counter it ice climbers have a bad neutral
@@live2die694 no u can't
@@live2die694 Completely missing the issue.
It's not overpowered, its uncompetitive.
It's the same kind of logic as Smogon banning double team in pokemon. Double team isnt overpowered, it's just stupid fucking cancer that makes the entire game worse overall to little benefit.
*So let's keep playing a game with an outdated mechanic*
Tony Rodriguez 😁 they need to project M smash ultimate. That would probably be just like melee buuuuuut you know that's never gonna happen with Nintendo on the job
I really hate how the Icies meta revolved around wobbling instead of amazing desync combos, they could have been one of the coolest characters in the game
To anyone who thinks techniques like wobbling are ok do you think the freeze glitch should be legal too
Wobbling is just the freeze glitch with extra steps when you think about it
@@myndkandii Except it's completely different...
@@sptflcrw8583 im sorry how
@@tehtayteh Because the freeze glitch is literally uncounterable. Wobbling is.
@@sptflcrw8583 "JuSt DoNt GeT GrAbEd"
7:15 did he just pop off at a wobble? Lmao
David Arruda Yeah in the cheapest way possible
@@matthewwong5025 it is still m2k
@@davidarruda8400 That's like saying I should be excited that I beat an Olympic runner by riding a motorbike beside them and smacking them with a stick while they're forced to keep running.
I'm sure you would be at least excited if you beat m2k even if he SDd
@@davidarruda8400 No, I wouldn't. Why would you be excited about that. I'd never feel satisfied with that.
The one with leffen was just frustrating to watch
Did he really pop off from one of the lowest skill techniques in ANY fighting game??
I actually enjoyed watching that one. Fox and leffen both know they deserved it
@@danielsmerdel8214 Leffen's not even the 'villain' of smash anymore
@@PresTsukasa I'm sorry, I forgot that my opinion has to be the same as that of the majority. My apologies for liking puff and being annoyed at an invincible frame 1 move
@@danielsmerdel8214 wait what did i do? i just said he's not the villain anymore, i quite support Puff myself (dont ban pls)
Imagine learning about a bug that instantly makes you win and marching over to a tournament with actual players using their raw skill to win and stealing the match from them.
F I L T H
But you have to grab them first before you can win. It isn’t an instant win technique if it’s something that requires some skill even if only a little bit.
@@TheTrueBrawler ha as if
@@smilerpunk922 Damn the tournaments are stacked with ice climbers owning everyone why is this happening oh god help us
@@TheTrueBrawler you also have to get them to a certain percent, set up a grab so nana is in the right position, and then wobble them and keep a rhythm up. Wobbling is preventable easy and it's why ice climbers don't just win every tournament
@@thel33tpenguinftw40 you can wobble at 0, stop spreading misinformation lol
Melee Community: “Puff is the most boring character to watch. I hate Puff”
Ice Climbers: **Wobbling Intensefies**
go post this on r/melee or some shit bro keep that reddit shit outta my RUclips comment section
what self-respecting person wakes up with the intention to do this. you can see it in their face that they hate themselves as they do it lmao.
Nintendude is pretty shameless, but DizzKid is supposedly really cool outside of the game, and gives tips to beat him and his character.
@james sc See at first I thought you were responding to me and I was very confused.
*the same ones that choose fox*
@@ksad96 dizzkidboogie has a 7 hour stream of him analyzing ICs and how to beat them on RUclips
@@kevinauduong7677 See, that just emphasizes that DizzKid is such a nice guy outside the game, and I hate seeing him get flak because of his character, but at the same time, I absolutely get it.
I was on the fence, but this video was just the push I needed to decide that Wobbling is a degenerate strategy that needs to go. That "comeback" on Leffen makes me sick.
Literally the most pussy shit lol
Shows that melee players really have no skill. They just need broken chars and mechanics.
It's practically a win button.
Ice Climbers
Literally anyone: Ah shit here we go again.
Everything is all fun and games until 2 people in an alley comes up to you and say, "You're about to get Wobbled, son."
The only good highlights of ICs was mostly Wobblez and one Fly Amanita highlight.
Crazy how both of them arent seen attending tourneys now a days as much feels bad.
Matthew Curiel Wobbles is officially retired and Fly has been on hiatus the past almost 4 years to focus on his Math Doctorate. R.I.P the only two dope ICs mains. Hopefully the ban brings forth a new gen of dope ICs.
@@InAshesWeStand facts
@@InAshesWeStand not to b against or for wobbling . From a different standpoint wobbling is a good tool. But my catch is that for nearly every ic committed time into it that they have way more potential than wobbling. If they ban wobbling ur forcing ic to get stronger which will make it harder on u to vs them. It is like taking a small baby to speak for example once they learn how to they have more potential to learn. Sorry if I know it isn't the greatest example. wobbling holds their meta back to why their only a few actually good ics because they don't wobbe . It is a temporary solution for the problem . The problem being what meta has built around for ice climbers . It can be considered the basics for ice climbers . They will come up with more advanced techique and the community is going to hate it cause ur losing not to character but skill that will turn into rage against ics just like how the community wants Jiggs ban yet the only Jiggs doing good is hbox . Ur basically asking for more hungry boxes . I don't like or like the situation but I can say this in maybe a year or 2 melee will rise into a dark age starting with these types of problems
Uhaunted purpose I have to completely disagree. People hate wobbling because it takes 0 skill, Fly style de sync combos take a tremendous amount of skill. Drawing a comparison between current day Hbox and future 20XX Desync no wobble ICs is ridiculous to say the least. And saying banning wobbling will lead to a new dark age legitimately has me dumbfounded. There are so many illogical points here I don’t even know where to begin.
Uhaunted purpose tbh the problem is that there is so much more to learn with ICs but people opt to only exercise one tactic that isnt truly a product of outplay in every scenario (sometimes it is out play but either when it is or isnt out play it leads to a conversion that the opponent cant do anything about).
I dont think it should be banned but I hope with it people lab the character more and see that there is still potential with ICs. There is so much endless possibility with the character ... all it takes is a vision, a bit of labbing and faith that you as the one repping the character can fulfill your own vision and showcase it consistently to show the viability of your idea. Wobblez had so many ideas that he managed to show people while he played that I'm suprised no one piggy backed off of his foundation he left and created any more. When there is so much more to learn. Wobbling allowed others to be content with not learning more with the character for some reason.
Wobbles did not invent wobbling, some Japanese dude did. Wobbles only popularized it after he used it a ton.
THIS
At least he doesnt wobble, that wobbles kid
Ackchyually, the video says he discovered wobble, which doesn't necessarily mean he invented it
And by some Japanese dude you mean Sakurai, right?
@@damplamp When you credit somebody for discovering something like this example it implies the definition thats a synonym with invented. I think you're referring to the definition that means found. A good reading comprehension can betray you in this given example. At the end of the day the semantics don't matter though. Wobbles was taught wobbling buy other people was the point of the original comment.
It’s crazy because Ice climbers are hype af when you got ppl like Wobbles playing them
Where did you go, Mr.Pickle? I liked your videos so much, I even took one of your vaporwave Melee outro songs and disguised it as a rip on my channel. Hope to see you soon.
Wobbling just makes the game unfun. It literally just says “oh, you made a single mistake? Well, you don’t get to play the game anymore. I win.” Key words being “you don’t get to play anymore”. Someone on this videos comments made a great comparison of wobbling and OHKO moves in Pokémon. Icy isn’t a great fighter, but neither are a ton of the Pokémon who know moves like sheer cold, or guillotine. The ability to wobble is the ONLY thing that’s makes anyone play icy, in a competitive environment, which is a shame, since they can be fun as hell. Being proud of literally admitting you’re too unskilled to beat your opponent in a legitimate match by wobbling them, is fucking pathetic, plain and simple.
it's no different than getting stuck in any other combo. that single mistake usually gets you setup to die when you play against people good enough to take advantage of your mistakes
Randy Randalman except that you can escape a combo, a combo has an end, and you’re not almost garunteed to die getting caught in a combo at 0% damage. Wobbling is an endless, inescapable combo, barring a mistake on the performers part, or them feeling “merciful.” Combos make a game interesting and fun, wobbling is literally killing someone’s fun because you can, and you feel that you have to win, regardless of the opponent. It’s like going to a casual game of yugioh with some friends and bringing a deck with all 3 god cards and exodia while everyone else is using a normal deck. It just ruins it for everyone else and strokes your ego.
@@Deamons64 You can escape wobble - as shown in multiple examples in the video. Also I don't buy that this strat is so OP like god cards in yugioh. If that were the case, all the top tournament finishes would be IC. It also works on only some characters. Yes it's annoying and looks cheap, but the end result is the same.
Randy Randalman it doesn’t look cheap, it is cheap. And if it was possible to escape from wobbling even remotely consistently, I wouldn’t be complaining. Can you escape, yes, the odds of your escape working and not being immediately punished by getting put literally right back in the wobble, fucking slim. I wouldn’t give a shit about it if it was 1: fair, 2:fun to do/fight against (and it’s neither) or 3: part of the game in a sense outside of high level competitive play, as in would appear in normal strategy guides. Wobbling is NONE of those things, and thus, is on my shit list. And having gone up against basically an entire fucking roster of wobble players during my attempt to get into melee, NOTHING will make me respect wobblers, or like ANYONE who does it consistently.
Why does this have way less likes than bs arguments against wobbling, this is the best argument against it by far
I honestly think this should have been illegal from the moment it was discovered, just like the IC's freeze exploit. It's just a cheap way to get a kill with very low risk, and super high reward. And as shown in the montage of IC combos at the end of this video, they are capable of so much more than just wobbling.
That's wishful thinking. Realistically IC players will drop him or retire in an instant and that's one less character you'll ever see in top 16.
ICs are useless without wobbling and mediocre with wobbling. Sure the mechanic is dumb but it‘s far from actually being broken as the character using it is just not worth it.
@@Dadude572 good.
@@sugar5374 "mediocre without wobbling" Chudat can beat you without wobbling
Respect the one or two people who can laugh off a wobble. Imagining the fucking patience you have to have is mind bending.
This is the most Reddit-tier comment section I've ever seen.
Are you talking about it being an echo chamber or...?
7:54 Just wanted to say that Wobbles did not actually discover wobbling. It's only named after him because at a tournament The King of Smash: Ken, started calling it the wobble after seeing Wobbles using the "Ic's Infinite" in a set. Ever since it started to catch on.
Does anyone know who discovered it? To be fair, multiple people may have discovered it all around the same time, but first to find doesn't mean shit if you don't do anything to publish it. Wobbles popularized it therefore gets the credit, which I think is fair.
@@WIZA327 www.ssbwiki.com/wobbling
Apparently some Japanese players.
Teknoor It’s a joke
Wobbles discovered it
I don't know how anyone can keep their cool. I would have been in jail and banned from turneys for life for assault with intent for murder.
Whoah, don't cut yourself on that edge man.
I would however insult their skill.
40 Miles of Bad Rhoads r/iamverybadass
@@JamesBilliam More like r/iamapsychopath
Christian Garcia I’m bad ass not cool
Christian Garcia I’m bad ass not cool
3:36 I stood up and yelled "GTF OUTTA HERE" LMAO
and once they banned wobbling all the ice climber players just quit forever LMAO
Everyone except slug lol
Since I don't play the game, as a viewer, it's just very uninteresting
I can’t imagine it’s interesting for anyone else. The opponent can literally put down the controller. It’s basically a “you’re not playing the video game anymore” move.
Even if you play the game you wanna fall asleep or kill the wobbler.
With grapplers in any fighting games, the grab punish is never that exciting, it's the set up that leads to it.
I personally think it’s exciting, watching the other player stay on his toes to avoid the grav
@@aeroman911 But in any other fighting game, the grab punish doesn't last 10 years and isn't a free kill.
Its about time. You know this tech is cheap if Wobbles himself doesn't use it anymore. The inventor thinks its cheap, the community thinks its cheap, twitch chat hates it, and the only people who support it are the ones who abuse it in bracket. Why was the ice climbers freeze glitch banned in tourny if wobbling does the same thing?
Wobbles didnt invent the technique though, he only popularized it.
@@phoenixjc6152 funny i dont see him saying wobbles invented anywhere in his comment maybe read more?
@@ghost1182able maybe inventor actually implies he invented it almost as if the term inventor is used to describe people who invent things.
Maybe learn how to use context clues
@@phoenixjc6152Most people aren't going to know the esoteric facts of which japanese dude actually invented wobbling. Most people dont give a shit about it.
Even if you are not the first person to create/ invent something, you could still classify as someone who created/ invented it.
*This only works if you have no knowledge that the creation or invention existed before you made it*.
Let's say humanoid aliens had invented bicycles 200,000 years ago. This would mean the first person on earth to invent a bicycle... DIDN'T INVENT IT (according to all your logic)
Using the logic stated in the first 2 lines of this comment: The first person on earth to invent the bicycle is an inventor of the bicycle. regardless of an alien on another planet making it before him or not.
the point being, we can't be sure of who created what first. But we can confirm that the creator didn't know of the existence of the invention already, hence created a new invention within their perspective.
Now we apply the same reasoning to wobbles,
if wobbles copied someone else, then he didn't invent it.
If wobbles didn't copy it, then he created it. regardless of the fact that someone in japan created it before him.
As long as the creation isn't copied, it is original. Hence the creator is the creator, the inventor is the inventor.
the reason I brought this up is, you lot don't understand that different people can create the same thing, without realizing the other has already created it. hence multiple inventors.
I love that despite knowing nothing about pro melee I could immediately tell in each clip which player the wobbler was.
icy players that don’t wobble and do those crazy handoffs to combos actually give me goosebumps