Is Titanic Good, Actually?
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2020
- Thing Good (except Pearl Harbor).
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WHY does everyone think it's ironic! Faysawtute!
hahahaha look it's the youtuber mentioned in the video! hahahaah it's like I'm friends with both of them :^)
Love them both 😁
Is this comment ironic too?
FEUD FEUD FEUD!
Because you are just too pure for this world Jenny. None of the rest of us can believe.
One of my wife’s favorite moments was walking into my house in college and seeing me and four other guys watching titanic in the dark.
The light was off to hide the tears, right?
We also had a Titanic movie night in college, and one of our friends made a point of flipping the light on after the movie to catch who was crying and call the rest "soulless" lol.
happy coffees lmao haha
@ThatOneAsianBroChick Umm... My father is Thai and would beat me if I cried. Just because you lived in a nice Asian house (based on your name) doesn't mean every Asian household doesn't frown upon men crying. Generalizing it to western males only shows ignorance.
While I do believe men should be able to cry, I still had a nice chuckle at the OP's comment and the comment after because I have a huge sense of humor. Heck, I even laugh at stand up comedian jokes when it's against men, Asians, nerds, etc. Why? It's just fun and funny, and if it's in a place where jokes can be said, or amongst friends, it's okay. You can always leave.
@ThatOneAsianBroChick Pretty sure it's not just western guys thoo-- since most of the guys I know, eastern and western alike is subjected to the "Men doesn't cry" mindset.
@ThatOneAsianBroChick I honestly wish that Lindsey would take a dive into the filth that is SE Asian entertainment media, just for the shock value and contrast.
Say what you want about titanic, I'm just glad that Rose canonically moved on and wasn't shamed by the movie for it.
I never even actively noticed that, but yes, that's so important! especially because they let her do both, still have a deep love for him, but also live her life despite the tragedy. or god forbid, be expected to go back to asshole cal.
Professor_Tickles 92 i love both this and the original comment, and i sorta think in the middle ground between the two of them. without jack in her life, she did grow a bit colder and into the rich lifestyle she originally wanted to escape. bc she never got the option to leave the boat with jack like she said; she couldn’t ho down that road. at the same time, this wasn’t the focal point of rose’s character in old age- she made the best of the paths she Could choose and was not shamed for living instead of getting stuck on what might have been.
@@Prof_Tickles92 Yes, that is a fair point, but this comment wasn't saying she was a perfect person. It was saying that some movies treat people, especially women, who love someone, lose them, and proceed to love someone else instead of spending their life pining for the first partner, like they've committed some grave sin or betrayal, and Titanic does not do that. Whatever bad points it gives Rose, it does not say she's a bad person for marrying someone else after Jack died.
@@Prof_Tickles92 if Jack and rose made it to New York I think rose leaves Jack when the reality of poverty hits
Imagine if her husband is dead & its implied that in the afterlife she leaves him anyway for the guy she hooked up for like 3 days
the thing that people criticize most about titanic, the door thing, is actually a great example of how good the movie is. people are upset about the door thing because they're emotionally invested, and they want jack to live. they're so invested in the story that they bring that frustration over his death into the real world
I think I've felt that with a couple of AAA games recently where I was like "what a dumb decision" about a main character when I was just sad because they wrote them so well
I watched it on thanksgiving and it really seemed like if he got on it, it started to sink… but either way I would have found something else to float on or something.
What I don't like is people blaming rose
No they just think it’s stupid she didn’t move over for Jack
@@Kickinthescience that still wouldn’t have worked the would’ve had to perfect balance themselves on it while dying of freezing
Something Titanic nailed that no one really talks about; sympathy and engagement with the minor background characters struggle for survival as the ship sinks. You feel for Mr Andrews guilt, the band's last attempt at dignity when they perform, even the workers at the bottom who used the last of their energy in minimizing the death toll and destruction of the ship while knowing full well it'll be their tomb for eternity, nameless masses fighing the chaotic inevitable.
I'm still invested in them no matter how many times I watch it. No other disaster movie has me as engaged with it's "disposable" randos as Titanic.
Edit: I can't believe i forgot about the old couple initially making this. Other people that also always feel like a punch to the gut watching Titanic everytime: the mother singing a prayer to her children in bed, the young mother with a baby asking the captain where she should go, and the German girl Jack's Italian friend was with clinging for her life on the railing as the ship went vertical and all Rose could do was watch as she fell to her death.
More movies in general could use that
Beautifully said. Everytime the workers slide under the closing door I stress tf out and when the door closes I always go, "WAIT DID THEY NOT ALL MAKE IT!!?? THAT LAST GUY DIDNT MAKE IT THROUGH 😩"
HBO's Chernobyl is similar in the way it brings home the human cost of the tragedy. It's one of the only examples of the disaster genre that goes to such lengths to humanise the victims.
Except for Human Plinko. I can't not laugh at that. Sorry.
@Yelling Hayfire Yep. After seeing Thomas Andrews throughout the entire movie coming forward as this sympathetic, warm, generous and kind man, his loss was very sad. But you also felt the loss of Mr. Murdoch after his suicide, in addition to Captain Smith and see Helga fall to her death right from the rail of the Poop Deck as Titanic goes vertical.
My stepfather says that a lot of the backlash happened because boys hated Leonardo DiCaprio because teenage girls obsessed over him, and you’ve already discussed how society shits on everything teenage girls like.
There was an archaeological find of some Roman basically writing "we hate vikings bc they have grooming habits and are pretty so women prefer them"
that is pretty much how I remember it happening... and I was in the demographic at the time
Twilight and Stephanie Meyer...
Titanic was pretty much considered a chick flick, at least in the minds of teenaged boys at the time.
Hell, I only hated the movie because my Mom liked it.
Magnanimous Ire except that honestly, as someone who was a teen girl during the peak twilight phase, twilight really is terrible. Compare it to something like the hunger games, which was also aimed at teen girls but was also smart, well written and respected to a degree by most moviegoers.
Cameron himself addressed the door size issue with Mythbusters when he said: “I think you guys are missing the point here,” Cameron said on the show. “The script says Jack dies, he has to die. Maybe we screwed up. The board should have been a tiny bit smaller. But the dude’s going down!”
People have died drowning in the bathtub and yet people are complaining that Jack SHOULD'VE survived a sinking ship......it baffles me
Also it's not like an upper class rich girl without a science education or a vagabond would have known that.
Am I the only one that clearly remembers he does fit the door, but the weight of both makes it sink so he decides to let Rose on the door?
They talk about the size, But they always forget the buoyancy
@@ay_azulita It was in a delete scene actually. Jack KNEW that two people could be on top of the door, but their combined weight would make it sink, dooming them both.
Thank you for addressing the fact that Rose and Jack both TRIED to get on the door together and it didn't work! It has driven me crazy for years.
Yeah and I think it’s less of a sinking issue and more of a balancing one. Because with just her on there she would have to be in the middle just like she was in the movie just for her to stay on it.
I watched the movie for the first time recently, and I was surprised by just how much of a non-issue it was. It's maybe the only specific criticism of the movie I heard before going in, and it's just nothing. They try to both get on, find that it won't hold them, and Jack silently resigns to the water to save Rose. They don't overly draw attention to it. There's no hokey "there's not enough room, save yourself" or anything that draws attention to the scene at all. I was surprised how much people focused on it.
@@Civilian08 Well, it is not so much about the door, but rather that Jack could and should have made it, on the basis of what we see of him throughout the movie. That includes being witness to Jack's intelligence and survival instinct.
For instance, after the lifeboats are gone, that Jack realizes they have to stay on the ship as long as possible and end up making their way all the way to the aft of the Poop Deck and hang onto the railing. Then, as Titanic breaks in two and is about to go vertical, Jack realizes that he and Rose have to go overboard to the other side to prevent themselves from falling to their deaths. The same way we did see Helga end up doing.
The other criticism I have read is that Titanic is a chick-flick, because, the movie focuses solely on Rose's character, whilst Jack also makes and goes through this interesting and important transformation process. Just like hers. Feeling like Titanic was too much female-oriented in the end.
@@victorsamsung2921 Aren't the majority of movies male-oriented though? As in, the main character is male. It's odd, because for some reason, they're still not classified as dick-flicks, they're just seen as movies. Yet when a female is the main character, suddenly it's a chick-flick.
That doesn't make sense to me.
@@AudioAlure Kek. Not sure what you mean. Back in the 70s, 80s and 90s, the majority of Hollyweird movies were always gender-oriented on exploring and showing strengths of both male and female. Referring as an example to Aliens (Sigourney Weaver), Silence of the Lambs (Jodie Foster) or Working Girl (Melanie Griffith) etc. for women. And the same goes for men, like Philadelphia (Tom Hanks), Liar Liar (Jim Carrey) or Home Alone (Macaulay Culkin) etc.
These kind of movies are neither seen as a dick-flick or chick-flick, because, there is a mutual existing balance between the two genders in the movie and less *focus* on drama.
However, in the case of Titanic, it is *not* just a female who ends up as the sole protagonist, but also, ends up being the sole survivor of her group, including whom she was in love with. Referring to Jack, and then, Fabrizio, Helga and Tommy etc.
Meaning, with Cameron deciding that Jack was going to die in the "movie", one way or another, by extension, it destroyed any chance or opportunity for Jack to be a lead character and survive as well. Not to forget, deciding that the move was solely going to be about Rose's feelings and not Jack's.
Had Cameron written Jack to be a survivor in the movie (as he could have) as we have seen it happening on-screen, both Rose and Jack would have been considered heroes in the end and Titanic not seen as a chick-flick. Due to the fact it's neither overdramatic, nor do we just talk about Rose's feelings.
When I was in college I learned my voice teacher played the Irish woman who is there when Winslet gets up on her toes, and also the first frosted corpse pulled from the waters. Now i just watch it and I'm like, "Oh LOOK. It's Linda."
Jesus, Mary and Joseph!
I have a friend who is a professional extra and I wave hi at her when she comes onscreen.
That must make it harder to suspend reality and believe the story is real
It actually makes it more fun. I think theater and movies are the best when you know the people involved. When they’re you’re friends and you see them succeeding there’s a different kind of joy to it
@@kathrynolsen1256
That’s adorable
“Manic Pixie Dream Jack”. You know I never thought of DiCaprio’s character that way, but now it makes a lot of sense. In fact, the more I think about it, the more I realize Jack is occupying the role usually filled by a female character in this type of cinematic romance and Rose, in turn, occupies a slot usually filled by a male character.
That is exactly why I love this movie!
Yep. One of the most successful and popular films of all time was actually about a woman and her journey. I love that.
Yess! It totally made sense when she was leading into that!
Oh my gosh, you’re so right!
Jack was a 3-dimensional character and, therefore, not a manic pixie dream person.
"I can't tell how ironic this is, and I actually know her."
Therein lies the genius of Jenny Nicholson.
Right? Idk why it is but she's hilarious. Her dry humor always gets a chuckle out of me.
“THAT BOY IS MINE! BRING ME THE BO-“
It takes someone who loves a thing in order to hate it as much as Jenny hates anything. After watching her video even I am not sure if I hated Avatar.
@@SamAronow Hbomber has admitted that he has the boy.
He has passed Jenny the ransom note in her comment section demanding expired blue popcorn.
There the matter stood. The fate of the boy is unknown, sadly.
Bold of you to assume she is aware when she is being ironic or sincere.
For teenage girls who grew up in the late 90s, seeing a female hero in a story defying classism, following her heart, and being portrayed by an actress that wasn't a size 2 was a big deal. Titanic isn't just another Romeo and Juliet. It's filled with criticism against the patriarchy and class systems that didn't end in 1912.
Rose, lamenting to her mother about the obligation to marry Cal for money: "It's just so unfair."
Ruth: "Of course it's unfair...we're women. Our choices are never easy."
Yes ....white feminism and you just proved it
@jeffersonhassan4558 I'm no stranger to the concept of intersectionality. Would you care to elaborate where this particular exploration of classism and sexism is exlusionary? These concepts can be applied to BIPOC and LGBTQ+ people too. I'm confused what the issue here is.
I think there was also a huge "no homo" aspect to the backlash. I was in 7th grade when it came out, every girl thought Leo was the cutest ever and the movie was super emotional, so any tween boy attempting to fit in and prove his manliness was automatically against the movie, even if they hadn't seen it, just in case liking it got you called gay.
Back then you got called gay for walking outside your door as a boy.
That kind of backlash has happened before among men and boys, and I never understood it. "Doing that thing that makes girls like you is TOTALLY GAY!"
@Ben Mazur Well said. One of the key issues with James Cameron deciding Rose DeWitt Bukater was going to be the sole main character and protagonist of the movie (e.g. we see the event through her eyes, feelings, emotions and memories), and then, deciding Rose to be the *sole* survivor of all her friends (including Jack's) and acquaintances (e.g. Thomas Andrews, Captain Smith and Trudy etc.) as well, made Titanic seem as a chick-flick.
I think those decisions were likely not on purpose by James Cameron, but on "historical" fact. Concerning 75% of all the women and children on board lived, but only 20% of the men. Yes, even 75 men out of 462 in steerage (Jack and 3rd class), made it out alive. Nonetheless, this discrepancy between the two genders and the fact that many families, marriages and friendships ended up broken and torn apart, became the basis of Cameron's artistic and creative vision and choice for the movie. Concerning the theme of separation & death.
Nonetheless, with these decisions, Titanic basically became a coming-out movie for Rose and her character. Whilst, that is not even initially true, because, we see Jack going through a similar transformation process of a boy becoming a man as well. And I remember after first watching Titanic, I felt uncomfortable sharing my admiration for the movie with others as well. In part of not wanting to be seen as Homo, Queer or feminine in any way. Very unfortunate. And the other, being in touch with my own emotions as a young teenager.
I was in 2nd grade when this movie was released in theaters.
What people who obsess over "movie sins" like the door miss completely is the fact that a character making a bad decision can be a part of the story as well. Jack didn't calmly analyze the door situation, he tried to get on and got scared it would sink. It was believable and totally in character.
Besides, it's a scene in a movie kind of thing. It doesn't have to be realistic in the world, it just has to be believable in the story. I can't fathom people watching this as the movie plays and thinking about that That must be the product of people nitpicking this thing on a rewatch.
yeah I mean they were suffering from hypothermia and it ould've hard for him to climb up onto the door even if he could get on and people make dumb decisions when suffering from hypothermia.
God I fucking hate it when people don't take into account panic into situations where people are guaranteed to panic. Like people complain about characters not doing the big brain logical decisions in a split second extremely specific scenario that's also panic inducing.
And you're missing, the joke.
Puremindgames
It’s not a joke just cause you retroactively claim it as such. Framing and wording is as importance as the context.
"The before times" is how we all should refer to anything prior 2020
I approve this motion.
Or 2016
Lol I hear this on mbmbam all the time
I like "the beforefore"
The long, long ago
I rewatched Titanic for the first time in a while, and I actually noticed something very minuscule, but might be one of my favorite things and small details in the movie.
In a scene before Rose decides that she will leave with Jack when the shop docks, she is at a lunch table with her mother and her mother's friends.
Rose's mom mentioned in this scene that Rose decided to have the color lavender for her wedding, and her mother makes the offhand comment saying something along the lines of "and she knows how much I despise the color" and talking about changing it, and then after the drawing scene, she changes into her more casual, white and lavender dress. Jack stared, looking very stunned, and it seemed like Rose was almost going to expect backlash for it (because her mother would have more than likely remarked on the color), but he says that she looks beautiful.
It's such a small and overlooked scene, but it's like she could finally dress how she wanted, wear what she wanted, be herself, and he thought she was absolutely beautiful.
I don't know. I thought it was a lovely scene.
Right, I was watching it last night and I really loved this small moment.
It’s easy to miss but it’s a sweet little detail in the film
One thing that bothers me is the people who hate on rose relentlessly. No, she didn’t kill Jack. They both attempted to get on the door, it didn’t work, and Jack told her to stay on the door and that “he’d be fine”. No, she wasn’t being selfish by accepting this offer without questioning jacks safety. She was freezing to death and her survival instinct was kicking in, if you had been on a traumatic shipwreck for 2 hours and were now stranded in the ocean, you’d take your chance at safety too. And also, people always make fun of her for being like “I’ll never let go” and then literally letting go of Jack, but if u literally just pay attention to the movie u would know that she wasn’t saying she would never let go of Jack, she was saying she will never let go of the promise she made Jack that she would live, and that’s why she said that, let him go, and then got on the lifeboat, because she wasn’t letting go of her promise to live (Jack even said, “promise me this, and never let go of that promise”, which makes it very obvious that that’s what she was referring to).
Thank you!
Except Rose was a villain throughput the entire movie. The door is the least thing that bothers me about her.
YES! I am also so done with people defending cal. He was a literal abuser, and forcing rose into marriage. She didn't have a choice, and the comments justifying and being sympathetic for his character are terrible.
I think justifying it as a symbolic phrase when they are literally clasping hands is a bit of a stretch. She could very well have meant it literally but freezing/drowning people are unable to hold on.
@@carlotta4th I mean, her story arc was literally about her going from suicidal to wanting to live life, and Jack saw this, and he made her promise not to "let go" which is a reference to their first meeting where she threatens to let go as she's dangling off the ship.
Not everything is written for a dumb audience. Some things aren't spelled out.
30:05 "Manic Pixie Dream Jack"
Why Would You Say Something So Controversial Yet So Brave?
Omg I lost it at manic pixie dream jack! But like, it's true...
It’s a pun on the phrase manic Pixie dream girl
@@TCt83067695 A manic pixie dream girl is a romantic interest that's fun and quirky, nonconformist, designed to pull a brooding or sullen male character out of his Whatever and "save" him. not sure who the first one was or who coined the phrase, but think Zoe Daschanel's character in Yes Man, or Ramona Flowers in Scott Pilgrim. There is probably a lot of argument about who counts at any given time, and whether or not the female character has any agency outside of freeing the male protagonist from his cage and progressing his story. You get the idea.
But yeah! we may as call the male version the Manic Pixie Dream Jack, because, if not the first, he was the most iconic one. The male MPDG is more rare.
Lindsay said aloud what we were all feeling and couldn’t put into words
Yeah Jack is sort of ridiculous. Extremely well-traveled for a 20 year old. Like, he's lived and worked in Paris, the UK, AND California after growing up in Wisconsin? And now he's heading back to America AGAIN? Dude must have had Expedia 100 years early
14 year old me: lol Titanic is dumm and its too long
also 14 year old me: watches the whole movie multiple times
Oh my god you described my teens too and also the song. I trashed on Celine Dion while simultaneously owning her CDs and listening to the love theme from titanic on repeat.
Why isn't anyone aware of the celebrity in the comments!
T1J!!
I didn‘t like it, because it was romance and romance was for girly girls. In order to watch it a second time while keeping up appearances, I conned my mum into wanting to view it, which gave me the convenient excuse, that I could come along to do her a favor. I thought myself very cunning at the time but now I suspect, that she totally saw through the ruse and simply plaid along to do me a favor instead. =)
The 90s was everyone acting like they were too cool to like anything and consuming things to be "ironic". It was exhausting existing in the 90s.
Adolescent me had that attitude to Caremelldansen.
I re-watched Titanic for the first time in like fifty years (slight exaggeration) because of this video, and I do not regret a moment of it.
I also notice a thing that I'd never noticed when I watched it as a kid: the note that Jack gives Rose that night after the fancy dinner said "Make it count. Meet me by the clock." And that's exactly what she did at the end. We have a slow pan over the photos of her Making It Count, and then at the very end, she meets him by the clock.
this just sent chills through my whole body. i've never thought of it that way
Whoa. I never picked up on that. Nice catch!
That's beautiful. In the end it was the philosophy Jack represented. He teaches her to spit out, I even seem to visualise a moment in which he tells her to ride, could this be right? In any case, it became clear to me the last time I watched it that she became alive (as exemplified in all those photos) only because of him. Oh my, what a beautiful movie... It just appeals to every longing I have as a human being--even when seeing some of the scenes while Lindsay spoke I couldn't help crying. What a movie!
@@natinat1307 You're correct about the riding part. He says he's going to teach her how to ride a horse the real way -- "none of that side-saddle stuff." She says, "You mean, one leg on each side?!" At the end, we see a photo of her doing that.
@@amityislandchum that’s so beautiful... it means so much to me... it’s freedom
I've stopped watching "thing bad" content to be honest. It's inherently negative, tears people down, and makes me depressed and also lessens my chances of actually having the guts to write anything.
Me, too. I have felt bad for that, because Informed Opinions Good! and all the pressure to be up to date on every little thing that goes 'viral' and every other excuse we're given as to how we must be in the know about how we-must-cynically-loathe-everything-and-here's-why latest breakdown.
But I really don't need an outside excuse to be cynical, I manage that quite well on my own already and in fact do too good of a job. And consuming media that tells me why my opinion otherwise is wrong because Thing is Bad and therefore I Am A Stupid just leaves me self-defensively angry. Worse, it leaves me angry at The Internet, and everyone knows that if you get in a fight with The Internet, it will always win.
And until The Internet decides to pay my therapy bills and anti-depressants co-pays, I've just got to lay off being click-bated by the latest hate-rants.
(Unless they're by someone I trust to at least be somewhat* objective and reasonable like, say, Lindsay Ellis!)
I should stop to but sometimes those content can be interesting.
True, unless it's in the "so bad it's good" category, it's so negative and mean and frankly unfair most of the time because it's just designed to tear people down.... And sometimes it's just an opinion, someone else can make content saying why the thing is great and people would think that 2nd person made better points :)
What a childish take, Jesus Christ...
@@HopefulNihilist I've gone back to watching thing bad content, but I don't tear anyone down for liking "thing bad." They can enjoy it, even if it's not my cup of tea.
Unless it's Riverdale.
In a way, the obsession with the size of the door proves that the emotional impact of the scene is that good. We really want a different ending, we really feel the lose of life.
I dont i just think its dumb as fuck lmao
@@padraigpearse1551 have you actually seen the movie?? In the movie, the door can't support both of thier weights.
@@lavabite ive watched the movie multiple times and my point is that I couldn't give two shits if they both died. I just hated those character so much. The titanic shouldve been the main character but they had to have a shitty love story
@@padraigpearse1551 the titanic shouldn't be the main character, it's a ship, it has no emotions. The point of the movie is the tragic love story, not the ship. The ship doesn't even have an interesting story to tell either, it was built, it sailed, it sank. Theres no story to tell. You can not like the love story, that's fine, but saying the movie should've been about an inanimate object is idiotic. If you wanna hear the ships story, watch a documentary on titanic, not a story driven movie.
@@padraigpearse1551 wow what a dumb take
*The lesson I should have learned:* Titanic was good, actually?
*The lesson I actually learned:* Man, I forgot how good the writing was in Ratatouille. I got to watch that again.
Also, a reminder that Micheal Bay's Titanic really sucked on so many levels. In a video about the difficulty of giving a positive review I think her best argument for 'Titanic being good actually' was by contrasting Titanic with the awful Pearl Harbor, a movie actively aping its 'love story set against the backdrop of a historic disaster movie' formula without understanding why or how those tropes worked in the first place.
funny enough I adore both films
Ratatouille is top tier pixar!!!
I kept thinking about how almost all of this also applies to Hamilton (I assume because of when this video was released), but Ratatouille really is a great film.
I’m not crazy about Leo’s delivery of his (not great) lines but his nonverbal cues are on point, like when he realizes he’s not going to survive, and when he first enters the dining room
Kind of a similar situation to Orlando Bloom in the original Lord of the Rings trilogy who had a lot of stilted line deliveries but did terrific face acting
There is an entire monologue in his face where you see him realize that he was about to choose to die so Rose has a chance to survive. Even if technically they could have both fit on the door, he decides not to risk it, and its obvious in how Leo plays that moment that it is a choice and he understands what it means. Crushes me every time.
A DiCaprio screaming montage was not something I knew I needed yet here we are
*I DEFY YOU STARS!*
"SuRREnDEr nOw!!" screaming DiCaprio ordered.
*There are two types of people when it comes to Titanic:* the people who are in it for the story, the spectacle...and those who just wanna see that guy hit the propeller.
*[draw me like one of your French girls.jpg]*
I still cry at the propeller scene 😢
So what do you call the people literally just waiting to hear "My Heart Will Go On" then exactly? Where do they fall?
Best comment I’ve read today. Thank you.
What if we're both? 'cause I'm definitely both.
If it is so good, why there is no Titanic 2?
>blissfully unaware aware of the mock buster Titanic 2
Because it's not marvel
BIG BOAT EXPENSIV
Yeah maybe the boat will rise back to the surface and the band will still be playing.
Bruh theres 2 animated sequels.
I never knew "jack could've fit on the door" was such a big complaint. It was obvious to a kid me it wasn't feasible; it was quickly shown how easily the door turned over like any pool raft, and that can be hard enough to get on with your feet touching the bottom. It'd take too much energy and strength they could barely muster as is due to them being in pain from being wet and freezing.
There’s another thing about _Pearl Harbor_ that it fails to do in its story that _Titanic_ does extremely well: it doesn’t incorporate the actual event into the narrative in any meaningful way. In the Cameron film, the ship is practically front-&-center alongside Jack and Rose’s Love story; the two go hand in hand exceptionally and we are shown the various kinds of people who are on board, and its sinking eventually becomes the most important thing happening & driving the plot. In _Pearl Harbor,_ on the other hand, so little of the film actually takes place at the naval base that we are struggling to make a connection to the event when it happens. It might lead to some plot developments, but overall, very little of the film is about the attack itself. You can practically take out the attack on Pearl Harbor from the film, and _next-to-nothing_ would change. That’s pretty insulting actually.
Yes! In fact I was reading some comments of people arguing that Titanic was either A) About the love between Jack and Rose or B) About the sinking ship. And the fact that this is contentious really speaks to how equally important both things are to the film. They are equal. And that is what makes it a good film, because the sinking of the ship could easily overwhelm a plot.
I feel like a lot of people miss the fact that this is how Rose CHOOSES to remember the Titanic, she is not telling an objective story but rather reminiscing about a traumatic event that happened more than 70 years ago when she was 17; for example, she feels trapped in the first class world so she paints it in bad light, and she ideolises the third class because she tasted freedom at that party. And her memories have been influenced by stories of other survivors, that's how she knows that Molly Brown wanted the lifeboat to go back even though Rose herself was never there to see it for herself, so for me it's not surprising that in the film Ishmay is presented as a coward because that is how some people talked about him
Are we related??? That's exactly what I've been trying to tell Titanic haters for years now!! A story being told by a person who remembers it from decades ago, simply just CAN'T be 100% factual and accurate. Rose obviously has to exaggerate certain aspects, like the first class being the "villain", to sort of justify her unorthodox actions and decisions during this voyage. Hell, this whole thing could even be made up, like Mr. Bodine tries to explain to Mr. Lovett at the beginning: "She was an actress! AN ACTRESS!!!" But even with all that in mind, it is still a very romantic and tragic story about 2 young people from different classes who found their love on the Titanic. As a 32 year old man who has seen the movie a dozen times (including the first time at the cinema back in 1998), I can 100% confirm: Titanic is NOT a bad movie!!
I think there was a moment in the film where she was siting with the guy and he was acting like a bit of a dick - from her perspective yeah he probably seemed like an asshole that would act cowardly
so thats why the characters are so insipid and plain?
thats anice way of hiding the problems in the movie you like... "ohh its just how the characters tell it"
Most of the general public don't have the brain cells to process what you said. Which I 100% agree with btw.
It’s been 84 years!
There is something strangely reassuring in the fact that even people who personally know Jenny can't tell if she is ironic or not.
Jenny = "This is awful I love it" and Lindsay = "Oh thanks, I hate it"
@@sailorkisser This is the truest math on the all the internet
I know, right. "So it's not just me then."
It’s the 90s seems like everything was irony poisoned
I like to believe everything she puts out is 100% genuine and without a single drop of irony, personally.
I wish more people would appreciate the overarching storyline of Titanic. The story isn’t about the ship, not is it about Jack and Rose. It’s about how Rose, a very privileged but suicidal young woman, used the sinking as a means to fake her own death to escape her family and upper class environment drawing inspiration from Jack and his free spirit. She would rather live penniless if it meant she could be free.
...Did the movie ever say she faked her death? I don't recall that AT ALL and that theory sounds really farfetched to me. xD
@@carlotta4th Buddy, there's an entire scene in the end where she hides from Cal, and then gives her name as Rose DAWSON aka not her actual last name. Yknow, scrolling through comments this is your second one I've found and I just don't think you've actually seen the movie lol
Watching this in 2022 breaks my heart. Like, you can see Lindsay's passion in this video- the great joy she must've taken in taking on movies, shows, popcultural tropes etc. The joy that was bullied out of her by a toxic twitter mob. Fuck this world. Stay strong Lindsay, I hope that you will find joy in satisfaction in the upcoming projects you'll partake in. And that you'll do ok in the future, overall.
Twitter is why we can't have nice things..
Twitter is a cancer.
@@PeninsulaPaintings Exactly
Wait what happened?
Folks please sign up for nebula. She's put out an amazing video out about her one true love, LoTR. It's delightful.
She may be off RUclips, but she's still doing amazing stuff. Doesn't stop me from obsessing over her yt tho
“I can’t tell how ironic [Jenny’s Avatar stanning] is and I actually know her”
Good. Jenny’s at least twenty layers of irony deep in real life as well.
Jenny's irony is so deep it has looped around on itself at the very least 4 times. Her D23 is hilarious because she will talk with the same monotone sarcasm about a 1/10 as she will about a 10/10
Even her irony is ironic, but only ironically so.
SpirusOfH I knew that Jenny was intractably ironic when she said that she liked to read Amazon reviews of plastic spiders for fun.
This is word for word the comment I was going to make. I love Jenny Nicholson so much.
@@doom_delrey9736 I mean the other side is how delightful those reviews were,
like I have rewatched that video and done my own exploring way more than I have on some of her other videos and I watch a lot of her videos 😂
Jack be like: "I'M LOSING TO A BOARD!"
I'M
sincerely hope she sees this king
"...Like a turd, in the wiiiinnnd"
Michael Rose be like “see how I survive”
@@baraka92 see how I linger hahaha
I cry at the end of the titanic every time I watch it but it’s not because of jack and rose. It’s because of the violin players, the panic, seeing the wreckage, the people with their loved ones that accepted their fate and the people in the water. It’s just devastating.
TITANIC is a masterpiece in the purest form of the word. It’s still absolutely riveting and moving.
You say riveting. Ironically, it was Titanic's de-riveting that caused its demise.
@@chrishood2793 Oh, damnation, I opened the replies to make a rivet-based pun! Scarcely seems worth it now.
@@chrishood2793💀💀💀
The attention to *accurate* details re. the ship remains astonishing.
"Manic Pixie Dream Jack"
No wonder all the boys in my high school hated him
manic pixie dream girls are worse
@Epic Rhino Filmsit's a set. A pile of trash with the movie inside of it. Why would you spam this comment anyway..
@Epic Rhino Films As Lindsay said: “If one must descend into the trash pile to admit we enjoy the thing, then this is where we live now.”
I never hated DiCaprio, in fact I was and am today a huge fan and he his my favorite male actor. Gilbert Grape, Basketball Diaries, Titanic, Gangs of New York, The Beach, Catch Me If You Can, The Aviator, The Departed, Inception, Django, Wolf Of Wall St, Once Upon A Time In Hollywood are all Oscar worthy performances.
“I can’t tell how ironic that is and I know her”
and that is why we love Jenny.
You. You love jenny. Personally, i dont care about Jenny.
@@Exigentable you clearly cared enough to tell us you don't
PORGS
@@Exigentable Thanks for sharing uvub
@@Exigentable It's okay. I think she is cool.
So I watched Titanic for the first time this year on slow, hungover morning with two friends who had also never seen it before. We’re Gen Z and I think we’d stayed away because we all thought it was a corny romance. So at first we were only mildly paying attention as we reveled in our headaches and nausea and made pancakes. But we got to the second half of the movie and we were suddenly so invested, giving all the perfect reactions you’d want from a rapt audience as all these horrific scenes played out. After the movie ended we all looked at each other and said, “Titanic IS a good movie!”. We proceeded to laugh at each other for saying such a stupid revelation. Of course it was good, why the hell was it one of the most well known movies of all time? But for some reason we were just a little surprised by how actually good it was.
Yeah I avoided it for years but it’s certainly up there.
I also recently watched it because of the titan submersible incident. Since the news broke out, my mother wanted to watch the movie. So, I decided to set up my laptop for her so that she can comfortably watch it. She suddenly had some work to do, so I decided to watch the first few minutes to see what was it all about. The few minutes became 2 hours and I had to take a break as I had some work. Watched the one hour after a while, the movie fucking broke my heart💔. Mom wasn't interested in the first 2 hours and just wanted to watch the ship sink, so I showed her that part later. Girls (and guys, don't deny it🤡) cry at Titanic, and I am proud to be one of them💔💔💔(tho I wasn't bawling and all, just became emotionally unstable for a few days, like really unstable💀😭). I am very upset that all the memes convinced me that titanic was a silly romance movie that cringe girls cry to. I learnt to verify information myself instead of believing others.
Man, Titanic ripps out your heart, smears and draggs it over the floor, unpolished and then shoves it back in to let you drop from a third store window. some people hate it, some love it.
its iconic. it makes u feel things u thought u never knew u had. ultimate love, utter disgust, but it does make u feel something.
Why wasn't the entire ship made of doors?
Here's your algorithm boost Lindsay.
Because then only half the people would survive, of course.
They're only one-person doors.
@@Xondar11223344 I hear nominate this The Best Comment on RUclips.
You know, when i finish the time machine I'm not working on, first thing I do is to go back in time and tell the design lead of the ship it needs more doors.
@@Xondar11223344 Thanos would approve.
Daniel Gertler every person HAS to have their own personal door
There are so many “thing everyone likes is bad, actually” takes on the internet it’s honestly so refreshing to see a “thing everyone likes is good, actually” take
Check out Really That Good by Movie Bob. It's along the same lines.
@@everardohernandez8036 Was gonna say that.
Lindsey, you actually made me feel bad for not liking it. I've only seen Titanic once (around 2008), maybe I need to rewatch?
For the record, the ending made me cry anyway, but I'm an easy mark.
Don't forget the entirety of the CinemaWins channel. Or Mikey Neumann's FilmJoy. I especially enjoy FilmJoy's "Deep Dive" videos where they take movies traditionally considered to be bad and make a good faith effort to enjoy them, or at least appreciate whatever things the movies do well. It really illustrates how much the "everything sucks!" mindset is a deliberate choice.
This movie came out when i was 7 years old. It was the most spectacular, biggest and beautiful movie i remember. The whole family went to the cinema. My parents bought the VHS, the cd. All kids in school talked about it. It was not just a movie, it was an event
I was 13 and went to see it 4 times in the theaters. Friends in school bragged about being the bigger fans because they'd seen it more times. The wait for it to come out on VHS was a tragic 7 month torture fest. I listened to the CD religiously. My AOL screenname had "Rose" in it for 4 months because of this movie. It really was absolutely magical if you were the right age or mindset. The fact that the backlash was so strong makes expressing the impact it had on people (in a good way) tough.
I was 19. I went to theaters to watch it ALONE. I cried so much and left traumatized for like a week!
I hadn't thought about it that way, but looking back, seeing "Titanic" truly was an event. Each time I went to see it in the movie theatre (4 times), my family had to plan our day around it because it was long movie. And talk of the movie really was everywhere - at school, church, the barbershop, gas stations, and "My Heart Will Go On" seemed to be on eternal rotation on the radio and VH1. You couldn't avoid hearing about "Titanic" for at least 6 months!
I was 11, it was a HUGE event. The only thing that comes close is maybe seeing Fellowship of the Ring.
Feel like I was one of the few who never went through a "Titanic sucks" or at least a "the romance sucked" phase. To me, the romance made sense when you take into account Rose's stubbornness and relationship with a fiancé that was already abusive. She loves her mother but her mother is a woman of her time and station who is pushing her daughter into a loveless marriage to save them from ruin and that births angst and a sense of having no control. So a very different kind of person enters her life, literally saving her from suicide, and she's hooked on him. Who hasn't known at least one person who was drawn to the other precisely for being so different from who they had previously been with? Add onto all this drama the unbelievably beautiful setting and costuming and THEN the sinking which is so well done and this is a movie for me. 🤷♀️
I did get sucked into the backlash for a bit...until I actually rewatched it again after like 15 years. I feel like most people suckered into it haven't seen it at all, or for a really long time.
I guess the reason why they hated the romance is to others they want to make it look like A Night to Remember
Which I personally think is underrated next to this film. It's like people think you need fiction more than reality. @@Torentino_Ian_no_channel_2006
I owe some of my earliest memories of lesbian panic at the age of 7 to Titanic and Rose so yes it is cinema
For that matter - the interpretation of Jack as a disguised “butch” lesbian, a la Hillary Swank in Boys Don’t Cry. I loved the movie in that lens.
Glad to know my tastes in favorite youtubers are validated by my other favorite youtubers
Klaus O'Shaunacey and then it would go to be validated by Lindsay when she said she watches Amanda. So it’s just a constant paradox of validation.
@Neil Brown titanic is the only movie to start with a T and end with a C
Same though.
The beauty of Jenny Nicholson is no one can tell how ironic she is, even herself at times.
still don’t know her actual opinion over Trigger Warning
Jenny is iconic
She's just awful though
Love her!
I saw the revival a few days ago. One thing that really struck me about Titanic is that EVERY single scene has a point. For a movie that's almost 3 hours, it goes by pretty fast because there's no meandering plots that go nowhere.
I love your "Thing Good, Actually" content. It is excellent and just as well thought out and clever as the rest.
I'd like more "Thing Good, Actually" content. I hate cynicism for the sake of cynicism or when people hate something just because it's popular. A lot of the time I feel like that's the only basis people have for hating something. And I hate this idea that criticizing something makes you cool and edgy and enjoying something makes you naive and dumb. So I enjoy seeing a well-thought out analysis of why negative cynical people are wrong.
I remember hearing jokes about how there was room for both of them on the door for YEARS, and being so shocked when I watched the movie and found out that they literally showed the door sinking under both their weight. Like... the movie literally addresses that. One of the most common (if not THE most common) criticisms of the movie falls apart when you actually watch the damn thing.
Exactly! This criticism/joke is so tired i just get angry every time its brought up cuz it really has no basis
Funny... the way I remembered it, the problem was that they tried to climb on from the same side, which started to flip it, not that it just couldn’t handle them both.
This has bugged me too for years. They literally address this in the movie, did everyone else just miss the part where both of them try to climb on it???
I watched it...and to me and many others it came across that way. At this point...is it on the viewer or on the film makers that it didn't come across clearly enough
Myth busters did try to bust it and they're only conclusion was that it would have worked if they put Rose's life jacket under it which one) how would you even keep it there? and 2) who is thinking of logistics like that when you are literally sitting in freezing water?
Also Cameron stated he would have died regardless bc that's what the script said so it really didn't matter what they changed. But yes I remember that scene so well and always get so angry when ppl ignore it to argue.
I also think Titanic suffers from the whole "it is popular with teenage girls, so it can't be good" idea that many people carry around with them, which is a whole lot of societal baggage. I remember my female cousins were crazy for Titanic and Leo when the movie came out, and I didn't really get it, and think I enjoyed hating on the movie for that reason (in retrospect, a bad take by 11 year old me). But I know you talked a lot about this issue already in your Stephanie Meyer video, so fair enough not giving it space here.
it's one of the highest grossing movies ever, didn't realize people thought it wasn't good
That was the main reason 10 year old me and my classmates dismissed the movie when all the girls in class were hyping it up.
Until I actually saw it and liked it.
If Rose had stayed in the damn lifeboat, there would have been plenty of space on the door and they could have met up after, and could have lived happily ever after, but NOOOO. when she jumped out of the lifeboat she was killing Jack to get an hour of bonding time.
@@bartistclord1916 Boy howdy did the entire video and purpose completely fly over your head buddy.
Right? I didn't like it cause girls liked it, all while watching sailor moon every morning at 6
Titanic won 11 Oscars and 3 Golden Globes, including Best Picture and Best Director in both awards. It's a gargantuan technical production yet still has great character development, pace, and story.
"James Cameron's 194-minute, $200 million film of the tragic voyage is in the tradition of the great Hollywood epics. It is flawlessly crafted, intelligently constructed, strongly acted and spellbinding. If its story stays well within the traditional formulas for such pictures, well, you don't choose the most expensive film ever made as your opportunity to reinvent the wheel." - From Roger Ebert's December 19, 1997 four star review.
Titanic is a classic. How can anyone not like this movie? Leonard Di Caprio and Kate Winslet made this movie. They had great on-screen chemistry.
Because it's a stupid cliché Romeo and Juliet
@@bbrules8646 learn to live and love, grinch.
As someone who doesn’t buy into the classic romantic story that is the emotional core of this movie, I fail to connect with it. I don’t dislike it, just another blockbuster to me 🤷🏻♀️
@@off6617 They’re not a grinch. Titanic is at its core, a sappy love story. I think a lot of people don’t like romance stories because they’re rather cliche and overdone. The Notebook is another example of a romance movie that gets half loved, half hated. I think using a tragic, historical event while primarily focusing on the romance between two fictional characters takes away from the story, just in my opinion. It’s definitely not a movie I love watching but I can understand WHY others adore it.
Without the love story Titanic would be a documentary@@squares4u
I think I remember James Cameron saying something like "of course Jack wouldn't have fit on the door. If he could have we would have made it smaller"
The irony was the door WAS originally smaller and he told the Production Designer to make a bigger one
Jack coulda survived easy-peasy!
All he needed to do was tie up all the dead bodies around him with some fishing twine and ride his new raft to safety like a queen fire ant!
Sea turtles, mate.
AlphaMorion This gave me a much needed laugh. 😂
I appreciate the visuals you conjured here, friend
Spoilers: Like the pirate section of the Watchmen graphic novel
Jack, regrettably, was born too soon to have read Tales of the Black Freighter
CinemaWINS > CinemaSINS
"Because liking things is more fun than not liking things." I even got the t-shirt.
After this, I will never stop calling him Manic Pixie Dream Jack
i have a slight suspicion that a big part of "titanic = bad" is that it's deemed a "chick-flick"
Lindsey has a whole video about how people subconsciously hate young girls and their media with the Stephanie Meyers apology.
It's really frustrating that just because women like something, people feel the need to start hating it and calling it bad. This is why we can't have nice things.
That's definitely why I disliked it as an adolescent boy (that plus hating Leo was a big thing back then).
100% agree. I’ve had to force every boyfriend I’ve ever had to watch the Titanic, and they ironically all loved it afterwards
Oh god get over yourselves even Lindsay explains why (popularity hating hipsters). We cant have good things until everyone examines their privilege, men and woman. Oh and trust me there is a lot of sexist hate for teenage boys and men and you know it and it is openly published in just about every media format. Being a left leaning male is not a happy place to be and hasn't been for a long time. Sooo many unexamined gob smacking generalisations...but thats ok isnt it. Anyway i loved the film when it came out and didnt know anyone that didnt thin it was fantastic. Did you guys even watch the video. so emilija sounds like confirmation bias to me.
A thing about Titanic that I was too young to appreciate when I was nine is how interesting a character Rose is. She's the heroine, but she's not bland, nor is she, "badass." She's kind of bitchy, and snobby, and not particularly kind to people, but she's also smart, and brave, and learning. She's the kind of female character I would expect from a female writer/director, or at the very least, not Jim Cameron.
And I support you in liking things. As a cheerful extrovert who spent her teen years pretending to be a depressed introvert because I thought that was what smart people were - it's stupid, it's fine to be happy and find joy in things.
It's not really fun to be a depressed introvert, I'm glad you got away from it. I envy that you were only pretending.
Uhhh... completely forgot about terminator2
As a depressed introvert, finding joy in things is essential
it's the learning part that is so endearing.... love a character that quietly learns and has the courage to change
Rose falls into some archetypes but she gets to be a human being. We have too few female characters like that.
There was a clear division in my primary school between people who had seen the Titanic and people who hadn't, the latter being so cool that one 6y old girl in 2002 claimed her father had survived the Titanic
must have been a damn fertile father
This type of analysis is so good. Every time Titanic is on TV I have to stop everything and watch the rest of the film- it’s compelling and timeless.
The ending with her on the stairs does get to me, but not NEARLY as much as the old couple holding each other in bed as the water rushes into their cabin. That stuff RUINS me.
@Jessie Jameson I liked the scene with the violinists saying it had been a privilege playing with them
The mother with the baby floating in the freezing water... I'll be barely keeping it together, and then those two, and then the fountainworks. Without fail
That old couple are based on the founders of Macy's, iirc. They were on the titanic when it sank; the wife refused to leave without her husband and they were last seen standing on the stern holding each other's hands as the ship sank.
@Jessie Jameson too soon. 🌊😭
@Jessie Jameson Your pun is great, intended or not.
Can you imagine being the spirit of Rose's dead husband standing in the back, watching everyone clap while she makes out with a guy she banged once on a cruise ship 80 years ago?
Does it say that she remarried? I didnt think she did
I like to think that he was someone who'd lost someone too and he and rose were good friends who decided to get married but never true lovers.
@@rainbowwwkim She mentions that she had never talked about him, '"not even to your grandfather", to her granddaughter, close to the end
The _Titanic_ was an ocean liner, not a cruise ship.
@@Daniel_Huffman Even worse. Some hookup she had while on the 1912 equivalent of an everyday flight across the Atlantic.
Re: knowing how it ends, but wanting it to end differently, there’s this fantastic anecdote from Ken Burns when he was making his Civil War documentary: he and his team were putting together Lincoln’s death scene, layering the play he was watching under the sound of the audience laughing, coughing, fabric rustling. They were about to layer in the sound of the bullet being fired, and Burns said “Stop.” They sat in silence, Burns in tears, for a few moments before resuming and putting in the shot. Just for a moment, they were able to press pause on time and prevent Lincoln’s assassination.
(I believe the anecdote is from Burns’s interview on the podcast Smartless if you want to hear him tell it himself)
You know, there was a time when I regarded stuff that everyone else liked as inherently bad because they're all uneducated simpletons who are incapable of appreciating the true wonder of art.
Then I turned 15 and grew out of that phase.
"...buying houses- that was a thing people our age did in the 90s"
Oof.
It's a thing we young people do now
Fun fact, I do know one person in his early 20's thats buying a house. ^^
One.
@@AmellsGrace I'm in my early 20s. Currently buying my second house. Payed the first one off in 4 years
@@wildmikefilms Cool, Not everyone has rich parents and a well off upbringing with opportunities knocking every second for vast amounts of wealth.
Bolt Let me guess, you got rich parents huh?
"I can't tell if this is ironic or not and I actually know her" is the perfect summation of Jenny Nicholson
*me whenever one of my friends posts photos of them dressed like fairies*
@@borismuller86 Do the crystals just look nice? Do the incense just smell nice? Or do they whole-heart believe in their powers? The world may never know.
I LOVE HER
Falling Petunias no idea but astrology seems to be a key ingredient.
God that is so Capricorn of me.
@@borismuller86 I've got friends like that and only two have outright stated it's for entertainment or a meditative aid. The other four I can't tell if they truly believe the celestial bodies rule their lives or not - the kind who mention mercury's position when they drop a glass of wine.
This movie straight up jumpstarted puberty for me. I was 11 or so when I saw this movie in its entirety. I'd seen some of it before but my parents kept changing the channel when the juicy stuff happened (big mistake cause they made it forbidden and a challenge, so I was going to see this movie if it was the last thing I ever did). 2 absent parents and a sleepy babysitter later and I finally saw it in all its glory, and boy was it an experience. A hand against a foggy glass made me feel things I'd never felt before, which confused the hell out of me because I hadn't had the birds and the bees talk at all and was as innocent as it was possible to get. You never forget your first though. Lol
I just rewatched Titanic tonight, and it hit me like it always does. There is cheese, but the story is compelling and draws you in. If I can sit for 3 hours straight without checking my phone, I’d say that qualifies the move as “good, actually” for me!
I always thought it was really clever having the crappy CG visualisation of the ship sinking at the beginning. Priming the audience to think, "okay that's what a CG version of the titanic sinking looks like." Then by the time we get to the actual spectacle everything feels shockingly real
Especially adding the real people swarming in panic and their screams
LMFAO, kids today... there's barely any CGI in the actual sinking, and while CGI had entered the public consciousness, due to Jurassic Park, it was still the pre-internet times for _most_ people, so nobody was "priming audiences" to think about CG.
title card: "my trash"
lindsay: "surrounded by trash in the next scene"
cinematic excellence
Contrapoints realness
That's some well diversified and neatly arranged can products, with representatives form PepsiCo, Keurig Dr Pepper and the Coca-Cola Company, neat
excuse me, those are RECYCLABLES
Brilliant cut
I had Jenny Nicholson vibes in this video because of this
i had this movie recorded on my DVR for 2 years and would watch it every day, multiple times, after school when i was 16-17. it’s one of those “5 movies you would take with you to a deserted island” movies for me, i never get bored of it. 😊
I maintain that Titanic would have worked totally fine as a love story about two lovers who meet on a boat and run away together if it ended halfway through, but what makes it a *tragedy* is that it keeps going to its terrifying, devastating end . We can debate all day about whether it's exploitative to use a real-life tragedy as the backdrop, but we can't argue with the results.
I...didn't realize people thought Titanic was bad now.
This is the first time I've ever heard anything good said about it.
It has its flaws but overall a film that keeps you engaged throughout the running time.
It gets pretty cheesy but it's still easy to get sucked into it once it plays in the background of a living room, especially when it first crashes and everything after.
Right? I guess I must be one of those unwashed rubes
its only issue is its length imo..because of that length its hard to sit through it annually or anything making the bet amount of time between rewatches every 2.5 years I feel.....theres some corny moments and heavy dialogue wasting scenes to extend the film and the boring skipable present day scenes once you seen the movie once..I never feel like wasting time listening to the treasure seeking crew's scenes until near the end ...they bore me to tears..maybe every 10 years I will watch the whole film all the way through when I forget them completely but on most rewatches skip those jackasses..they add little to the film
A man with a name like “Richard Davenport-Hines” is exactly the type of man I’d expect to complain about the, “poor and unlettered.”
I know - I'm glad she found that quote, I actually burst out laughing
"james cameron is cancelled because he's richist!!!!" - richard davenport-hines probably
Too bad Lindsay couldn't get Jim Sterling to do the voice over as the Duke du Hardcore.
that quote honestly sounds like it came right out of 19th century Britain
@@katherinepagan4860 Are we certain he's actually British and not the royalty enthusiast from New York that made up an austentatious name for himself?
rewatching this for no particular reason!
I think I can finally confess, that I just straight up love this movie. I used to have to give some caveat like "well I didn't care about Jack and Rose, but the REST of the movie..."
When it comes to the whole door thing, Cameron said it best on Mythbusters - "The script says Jack dies."
Ah mythbusters
I'm about 30 minutes in and my biggest takeaway so far is:
Space Jam > Pearl Harbor.
I can get behind this.
Facts
Somehow a 90’s sports live action/animated hybrid movie that sounds terrible on paper beats a romantic action war movie that sounds epic on paper ruined by shitty writing and directing.
Whenever I question if Titanic is as good as it feels when I watch it I always think about the door. The fact that so many of us were THAT fixated on whether both Jack and Rose could’ve fit on it is a testament to how much we were invested in their story. We know that in order for the story to work Jack can’t survive. It’s not that he could’ve survived, we want to believe he could’ve.
I’ve watched this whole thing multiple times. Titanic is my favorite movie. Love hearing your grounded, well argued defense of it. You are terrific!
I think the reason everyone started caring about the door was because they
didn’t want jack to die. I think it started as more of a “no jack! But he could have fit!!” Rather than “ but he could have fit. Movie dumb.”
I think you're completely right about this.
Yeah I remember being entirely cynical watching this movie, partly because of my cringey “ i am not like other girls” phase, but also because i did not want invest in the tragedy because then I would feel the sadness of it all. The door matters because I wanted Jack to live.
Also, imagine how awkward it would have been if he didn’t die. She would have had to follow through... yikes.
When you write it like that, you do remind me of a *certain* plot point from the last of us 2 that everyone is very angry about...O_o
And the door would have sunk.
2:55 - The 4 stages of being a Jenny Nicholson:
*STAGE 1* - "Wow, this persona is really funny and goofy, and I love it."
*STAGE 2* - "I have a feeling this isn't entirely an act, but I still love it."
*STAGE 3* - "OK, she's just like this, and I love it even more."
*STAGE 4* - "I've never seen any of The Land Before Time series but I will happily watch Jenny do a just over an hour-long video ranking all 14 movies."
Accurate
Listen. Her rankings were wack
Also in hindsight, there was already a movie that did the 'love story interrupted by Pearl Harbour' storyline in 1953 called From Here to Eternity. And it was splendid.
I love Titanic too. I didn't watch it in the 90's when I was a kid, so whenever there;d be conversations about Titanic, I would be ''I haven't watched it, but I know the plot and it's so banal like thousands of those romance movies that aren;t realistic'' and I would support the cynics that would talk badly about it (usually the men) and feel their approval. Then I've actually decided to watch it, and it turned out to be a masterpiece that gets me every time too. Nothing like 99,99% of those manufactured romance movies actually. Can't explain why it is this way for me despite the cliches, but it's just so well-executed, the whole thing. Really touching. You (Lindsay) tried to find a rational explanation, but they didn't hit home for me personally. And I'm someone who doesn't like/watch conventional Hollywood movies, only independent ones from everywhere but North America.
On the ridiculous "space on the door" controversy, Mythbusters actually did an experiment on that. Turned out that the only way they could have both survived/stayed afloat on top of the door for that length of time and not frozen to death was if they had tied Rose's life jacket around the door in a particular way, and then only just. So yeah it would have been technically possible but then even sitting on my decidedly dry warm couch, untraumatised, I never thought of that solution until they brought it up on the show, so.
And the mythbusters team figured this out warm, safe, with no stakes or danger as much time as they wanted and understanding of physics.
Jack and Rose were freezing, almost died multiple times and running out of time. They weren't about to do complex problem solving.
"If you have a physics degree, you can fit two people on this door"
And then people ran with that as fact it was a pointless death. This is why I don't trust the internet with solving anything.
If James make it more realistic. Even rose could be dead. The fatigue they have from escaping the sinking titanic and the harsh coldness after will kill them both even if they both fit on that door. But that won't be a good story. From the beginning that Rose and Jack met. Jack always saves Rose. From suicide, from being suffocated, from having no freedom, from arrange marriage, from sinking titanic. The ending is just a creative choice. So that Jack doesn't betray his character as unselfish. While Rose as being free.
Plus the water is severely cold and the salt water also effects the buoyancy of the piece of wood, it’s not like laying on the piece while on dry land.
@@diocre7446 except that the old lady telling her story is a part important of the movie, rose dying mean it would make no sense on that old lady be still alive just in time to die at the end (or sleep)
I still stand by my theory that all of James Cameron’s movies are just a subconscious cry for help for his eternal fear and desire for the ocean. He both yearns the ocean and feels consumed by it. It will be his downfall, his final film.
His final film will be released posthumously and it'll just be him stripping naked and walking into the ocean and dying.
One day, JC should adapt a Lovecraft story. HP gets it - man was even scared of seafood.
He does have an amazing cliffside property in Wellington, a city that'll sink into the ocean when we get the next big quake!
You realize he did go into a submarine, and explore Mariana's Trench don't you?
That doesn't seem like the actions of someone who is afraid of the ocean.
Sir Grim Locksmith VIII Yeah, not sure how nuclear armageddon followed up by machine exterminating what’s left of humanity falls into that.
a perfect example of an audience's lack of engagement (or just distracting cynicism): obsessing over the logistics of a floating door
The only real issue I take with it is the fact it's a period drama. Typically, movies like Titanic just feature a big historical event as an aesthetic to get asses in seats, and then disrespect the history by turning it into a backdrop for an irrelevant subplot. For example, Pearl Harbor turned the murder of thousands of soldiers into a patriotic action movie with prop humor and a love triangle. But Titanic is different, likely due to Cameron's interest in the original subject. While it's not exactly a documentary, the way it captures the panic and sadness that surrounds real disasters still feels authentic.
What works about Titanic is that even though it did add the subplot, the movie is still very much about the Titanic disaster itself. You really get a sense of what society was like during that time, the divide between the classes, how the Titanic was shown as this unsinkable behemoth and the overconfidence of everyone on board, all the procedures the crew went through to try to save everyone, all the complications with the evacuation, the panic and hopelessness and death, and all sorts of other historical details that make the movie a lot more immersive. I get the disdain towards period dramas in general, but since Titanic is a great jumping on point if you're interested in the event, I wouldn't consider it a flaw. I learned a lot about the sinking from the movie, and it made me want to learn more.
@@cubedmelons876 True. I had originally meant that the only problem I *could* have with the movie was subverted by just being done really well. The romance really gets you to care about Rose and Jack, and doesn't come at the detriment of the sinking later on. The movie is just overall a fantastic piece of storytelling, and frankly I'm pretty sure people only pretend to dislike Titanic because it's got a lot of well-earned popularity.
Lindsay: people think Avatar is a lukewarm MEHH...
Me: the only person who loves it is my dad
Lindsay: .... except for dads
XD
Haha same here, she brought up Avatar and I thought, "My dad loves that movie"...
"Except for dads" WHOA!
Avatar suffer the same "reject the popular thing because popular bad" that Titanic suffer but worst, fucking film Twitter.
I had no idea this was so universal lmao. My dad is obsessed with Avatar
And Jenny Nicholson!!!
Hitting the nail on its head! Titanic (1997) is far more known for its story and characters than in Avatar. The latter being memorable for the record-breaking and ground-breaking use of CGI, 3D software and other visual effect technology, whilst Titanic for its epic lovestory, characters and chemistry. Also, the music/soundtrack of Titanic by James Horner remains really a spectacle.
Fun fact: that floating "door" is actually not a door. It's a wall panel placed above a door
On Jenny Nichols: “I can’t tell how ironic this is and I know her”. Man this is a mood
Big Porg loves Avatar unironically.
Had me laughing for a minute
Me 😂😂
I love Jenny so much. She's the most unique person I know
Lindsay Ellis: Deep thoughts, educated insight, well written analysis, excellent presentation
Also Lindsay Ellis: haha Leo go WHOOOOOOOOOHWHOOOOOHWHOOOOOOOHWHOOOOOOHW
I hate the door criticism so much. You don’t even need the deleted scene where the other guy tries to get on the door. When they first find it, they both try to get on top of it and it starts to sink. Then Jack realizes that it won’t hold both of them, and he says that out loud. It doesn’t matter that the Mythbusters proved that a door of the same size and materials could hold both of them in the real world, in the world of the film, the door they find just can’t do it. Maybe it was a door that wasn’t made of the right type of wood. Maybe it wasn’t sealed properly and the water seeping into the wood made it less buoyant. Maybe it was damaged in the wreck. Either way, it is established in the text that the door isn’t going to hold them, and it’s entirely plausible.
I think Titanic is one of the few movies that get that the McGuffin isn't the point of the story, many end up believing that it is the point of the story.
Spot on about the "knowing how it ends, still hoping it doesn't happen". Everytime I watch that collision scene I go like "Come on, come on. Turn. You can do it... wait, what am I doing." They did marvelous job with the tension and making you care about the ship and its' people.
titanic is legit the best example of grace beauty and love coming from tragedy I have ever seen...its so tragic but its so well done and the despair of it all makes you care more about rose and jack than even the script makes you care about them...you feel bad and glad at the same time and it enhances the joy through pain and thats true storytelling..its making the most out of this situation we all know ends in tragedy but it makes it worth it and sorta glorifies it in all the best ways not just to make money even if thats apart of it..you feel care was put into the making of this film for that experience and emotion not to just make 2 billion dollars one day...they could just make the film super happy or sad but they choose to balance it out...I respect that...it says hey this sucks that it happened but at the same time it makes us all feel alive
I feel the same way about Hadestown. Every time I listen to Doubt Comes In, I still hope Orpheus won’t turn around and I say “you’re almost there, just keep pushing forward” and the tragic ending still hits hard. It’s crazy how Hadestown and Titanic parallel now that Lindsay put that thought in my head.
@@lazulidrawzalot0616 THANK YOU I CLICKED ON THE REPLIES FOR THIS COMMENT HOPING SOMEONE WOULD MENTION HADESTOWN!
Very true, every time it comes to the scene where rose and Jack are in the ocean, I feel like Jack will wake up and it just breaks my heart every time we see he dies
I don’t know why the boat couldn’t stop then turn why did it have to keep going
"The thing about popular and 'low' art is that, given enough time, history often reframes it as high art. Shakespeare, Puccini, Dickens, even the novel itself, all started off as popular art that only got reframed as high art in retrospect." 👏👏👏👏👏👏
vladimir·bmp I would argue a lot of “high” art makes the opposite journey. Works once revered with almost no criticism attached get hammered later on, with disclaimers tacked on at the beginning, or gradually taken off of reading lists, etc. “High” artworks often earn plaudits for doing something in the moment that, when placed in a different time/place/context are suddenly not so pristine. And it isn’t just that “well we think racism/antisemitism/etc. is Bad now and they didn’t.” Those things were always bad, and recognized as bad in their own time, just not by anyone in power.
Nirvana is on the way there right now.
@@1000huzzahs on this topic there's an interesting video essay to be made about "edgy" humour. Shows like Little Britain knew the racism, transphobia, ableism etc. was in poor taste and punching down, but that was the point. Sometimes being "edgy" is (ironically) mainstream, most recently the mid to late 00s.
And that a lot of terrible things get reframed as classics because of the hype train around it and popular appeal
Anyone who says that about Shakespeare has never read King Lear, Macbeth, or the Henriad.
Pseudointellectual quote at its finest.
Coming in on the heels of the titantic billionaire submarine going missing. Anyway, yeah, the movie is pretty good and the song by celine dion slaps.
Thanks RUclips alogrithm
I'm genuinely still confused about the door float thing. Disregarding the Mythbusters episode, wasn't it established immediately that Jack could not get on because it easily topples over if two people get on it? Am I missing something with the arguments here? Am I having a Mandela Effect happening here? Or is it just argument for the sake of argument because of over-hatred for the movie?
Edit: I wrote this comment before Lindsay showed the clip of Jack getting on the door. So, even she knew the stupidity of the argument.