That is a really good explanation. Now as someone who is 53 myself and has only had hand/foot skid steers I prefer them over the joystick controls. Now as you said it is easy to figure out the newer style. I got in a Kubota mini-excavator for the first time and was able to dig a 300 foot trench without difficulty despite being more familiar with the earlier controls.
I see people all the time complaining about joystick but if they took 15 minutes to figure it out it’s really not that difficult to pick up on especially if you’ve been operating a long time
I’ve got a hand/ foot control s450 mostly because it was way cheaper than joystick. I’ve run both and think there’s nothing wrong with either. It is weird that the new r series hand/ foot machines are electric though. That was always a positive was that they were always more reliable than joystick because they had less electronics.
Yeah that is an upside to hand/foot machines is that they are more reliable and easier to diagnose if there’s an issue rather than chasing wires or plugs
We use a Bobcat 753 (wheeled) at my shop in the Air Force to clear snow. It’s got the foot pedals. Before the Air Force I worked in a landscaping company where we drove Cat Skid-Steers (dual joystick). I thought I could just hop up in this Bobcat and be a pro. Nope. That thing is tricky to operate. It takes a lot of time in it to be even decent at it. Much prefer the dual joystick, so much more efficient. Also, I feel like those pedals are not sensitive enough. So many times I’ve slammed the bucket into the ground or nearly tipped it with a load because I press the tiniest bit and it goes full flow with the hydraulics. Really got to watch what you’re doing with them.
@@OutdoorsEveryday not all of them though right? My dad had 2 skid steers both had the joystick one was an ASV and another was a cat. I ran a bobcat at a job with the zero turn style hand controls and then the foot pedal for the bucket. I just know I was not very great with the joysticks but even the guys in the shop that were very good with joysticks had nothing on me when compared to the hand controls. Also I just don’t know how you could ever get crazy good and do amazing things without being able to independently control the right and left side drives? It seems to me that joysticks are great for the average user but for the guy who wants to be an exceptional operator and out perform the rest he needs to have the hand controls and foot or you’ll never reach that status. Maybe I’m wrong that’s just what I observed from my little bit of use.
Ahh I see your point. What you’re saying is accurate and everything with wanting to independently controlling drives. Not all of them are electronically controlled as of yet but certain brands are making the move over with new models
Don't understand why all the argument on one vs the other. I can do both and switch back and forth plus jump on any full size loader, dozer, excavator or whatever. It's just a matter of getting the feel the machine and getting it to move smoothly and making compound movements.
This purely subjective because either system is just fine, and I can run either, but as a skid-steer operator I by far prefer bucket foot controls, especially for digging into piles or spreading material, probably because that's what I learned on. I personally feel like the machine is more of an extension of my body. And IF your sticks and pedals are set up and valves adjusted correctly (a big IF , I admit) you can be very precise. It is weird though that modern ones are electronic... what I learned on was 100% mechanical...linkages connected to valves. All that said modern joystick controls are light years ahead of anything I learned on in the 70's. I much prefer joystick backhoe controls to the old 4-lever (which I also learned on), and if you're doing really delicate work with a forklift, manlift, or crane of *any kind* where you could wreak havoc with the slightest slip of a control, then I want the precision of modern "fly by wire" joysticks or similar. It's all good though... a good operator can adapt to just about anything.
Yes, it is subjective. All depends on what you prefer. I understand your points tho. Especially is the controls are adjusted correctly. I think modern electric over hydraulic controls won’t stand the test of time that hydraulic controls have
Most people can get in a dual stick control and be relatively good at it in a few minutes. Hand/foot controls take wayyy more practice before you can even move dirt quickly. However I much prefer the hand/foot controls 1 because there’s no delay in response as most dual stick controls are electric. 2 I find I can maneuver much better with hand/foot controls without having to push the stick in and then sideways. That just kind of feels weird for me.
Good demonstration.. I like hand foot control, but I can also run the ISO controls.. I do not like the H pattern like the case skid steer.. I have run a lot of different skid steers in my working life.. I am retired now and have a John Deere 325 with hand foot controls.. This is a strong running machine and is dependable to run..
Hand and foot controls I believe will last longer as long as they are manual controls. Bobcats new R Series loaders have the hand foot option but they are electronically controlled
@@ThePullnfool so I just bought a2019 bobcat It has the ISO in the age pattern but my owner’s manual swears up and down that my machine which would be the 560 or 570 Cameron Ralph top my head it is an S570 can I use the foot controls in this
Joystick machines are easier to use and much easier to separate you from your money on repairs. Ask anyone who bought the first two years of the T650, when the plastic washer wears out (inside the pump gyro) and you can't trust the machine in tight places or around people, and it only costs about $6-8k to fix. Yeah they have gotten better over the years but sticks and peddles don't fail nearly as much, maybe 1 to every 10 joysticks.
Iv been forced to learn the foot pedal it’s definitely not my choice as iv been used to operating with a joy stick took me about a week to get it down but now I don’t mind it at all using forks and a bucket sometimes idk I like both joystick is just what I was used too
I have ran both I really like joysticks it's a lot easier to run control throttle I have to run an excavator and the scid steer so the joystick is the same control!
@@OutdoorsEveryday I see guys every day run them and they are awesome but at the same time they cant just hop on any other machine on the job site and run it to their skill level either. its a tradeoff no doubt.
@@OutdoorsEveryday Not pissed off but I'm 18 and have only run hand and foot for 2 years now and am pretty damn good at it. now I've never had the chance to drive joystick, but I'm sure I could pick up ISO no problem
I just ordered a bobcat t450 lovely machine but has the hand and foot controls I can’t stand it, if they had another machine in stock I would have taken it back right away, it’s so counter intuitive wasting two hands to go and operating the most precise part with your feet, absolute nonsense
I do not mind those controls. It is the Case controls that I dislike with the travel and bucket functions all on the steering levers.. My Deere 325 has foot controls and I like it that way.. It is a good powerful machine with a five cylinder Deer engine @76 HP..
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What he really meant to say: "I can't run the sticks and pedals folks, I...uh....messed my ankle up...yeah...not tryna sound like a weirdo" 🤣
Yes I’m always angry
That is a really good explanation. Now as someone who is 53 myself and has only had hand/foot skid steers I prefer them over the joystick controls. Now as you said it is easy to figure out the newer style. I got in a Kubota mini-excavator for the first time and was able to dig a 300 foot trench without difficulty despite being more familiar with the earlier controls.
I see people all the time complaining about joystick but if they took 15 minutes to figure it out it’s really not that difficult to pick up on especially if you’ve been operating a long time
I’ve got a hand/ foot control s450 mostly because it was way cheaper than joystick. I’ve run both and think there’s nothing wrong with either. It is weird that the new r series hand/ foot machines are electric though. That was always a positive was that they were always more reliable than joystick because they had less electronics.
Yeah that is an upside to hand/foot machines is that they are more reliable and easier to diagnose if there’s an issue rather than chasing wires or plugs
We use a Bobcat 753 (wheeled) at my shop in the Air Force to clear snow. It’s got the foot pedals. Before the Air Force I worked in a landscaping company where we drove Cat Skid-Steers (dual joystick). I thought I could just hop up in this Bobcat and be a pro. Nope. That thing is tricky to operate. It takes a lot of time in it to be even decent at it. Much prefer the dual joystick, so much more efficient.
Also, I feel like those pedals are not sensitive enough. So many times I’ve slammed the bucket into the ground or nearly tipped it with a load because I press the tiniest bit and it goes full flow with the hydraulics. Really got to watch what you’re doing with them.
Foot pedals on them suck
The issue is there is a lag and its not as smooth. Hand and foot is instant and immediate
Yeah that’s a good point there. In new units, unfortunately the hand/foot controls are electronic which can cause lag in those configurations as well
@@OutdoorsEveryday not all of them though right? My dad had 2 skid steers both had the joystick one was an ASV and another was a cat. I ran a bobcat at a job with the zero turn style hand controls and then the foot pedal for the bucket. I just know I was not very great with the joysticks but even the guys in the shop that were very good with joysticks had nothing on me when compared to the hand controls. Also I just don’t know how you could ever get crazy good and do amazing things without being able to independently control the right and left side drives? It seems to me that joysticks are great for the average user but for the guy who wants to be an exceptional operator and out perform the rest he needs to have the hand controls and foot or you’ll never reach that status. Maybe I’m wrong that’s just what I observed from my little bit of use.
Ahh I see your point. What you’re saying is accurate and everything with wanting to independently controlling drives. Not all of them are electronically controlled as of yet but certain brands are making the move over with new models
@@OutdoorsEveryday yes
I noticed that today. I rented a Bobcat S510 with joystick 🕹 controls and there was a significant lag vs my hydraulic joystick 🕹 controlled Kubota U25
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My man💪🏽🔥🔥🔥
Don't understand why all the argument on one vs the other. I can do both and switch back and forth plus jump on any full size loader, dozer, excavator or whatever. It's just a matter of getting the feel the machine and getting it to move smoothly and making compound movements.
This purely subjective because either system is just fine, and I can run either, but as a skid-steer operator I by far prefer bucket foot controls, especially for digging into piles or spreading material, probably because that's what I learned on. I personally feel like the machine is more of an extension of my body. And IF your sticks and pedals are set up and valves adjusted correctly (a big IF , I admit) you can be very precise. It is weird though that modern ones are electronic... what I learned on was 100% mechanical...linkages connected to valves. All that said modern joystick controls are light years ahead of anything I learned on in the 70's. I much prefer joystick backhoe controls to the old 4-lever (which I also learned on), and if you're doing really delicate work with a forklift, manlift, or crane of *any kind* where you could wreak havoc with the slightest slip of a control, then I want the precision of modern "fly by wire" joysticks or similar. It's all good though... a good operator can adapt to just about anything.
Yes, it is subjective. All depends on what you prefer. I understand your points tho. Especially is the controls are adjusted correctly. I think modern electric over hydraulic controls won’t stand the test of time that hydraulic controls have
Most people can get in a dual stick control and be relatively good at it in a few minutes. Hand/foot controls take wayyy more practice before you can even move dirt quickly. However I much prefer the hand/foot controls 1 because there’s no delay in response as most dual stick controls are electric. 2 I find I can maneuver much better with hand/foot controls without having to push the stick in and then sideways. That just kind of feels weird for me.
Good demonstration.. I like hand foot control, but I can also run the ISO controls.. I do not like the H pattern like the case skid steer.. I have run a lot of different skid steers in my working life.. I am retired now and have a John Deere 325 with hand foot controls.. This is a strong running machine and is dependable to run..
Hand and foot controls I believe will last longer as long as they are manual controls. Bobcats new R Series loaders have the hand foot option but they are electronically controlled
@@OutdoorsEveryday I agree.. Much more to go WRONG with all the electronics..
You got that right
@@ThePullnfool so I just bought a2019 bobcat It has the ISO in the age pattern but my owner’s manual swears up and down that my machine which would be the 560 or 570 Cameron Ralph top my head it is an S570 can I use the foot controls in this
If it has iso or h pattern, foot controls aren’t an option
Iso is better in wide spaces but hand/foot is better in close spaces
True
Joystick all the way!!
I agree!!
I’m going to a new job and I’m suppose to run joysticks. Will be my first time I’ve been on hand and foot for 5 years
Good luck! Shouldn’t take too long to get the hang of it!
How do you put the machine in float mode either in ISO and the H pattern?
Usually it’s a trigger or a button on one of the joysticks
we have a 1998 863 bobcat with foot controls and i much prefer it over joystick
Joystick machines are easier to use and much easier to separate you from your money on repairs. Ask anyone who bought the first two years of the T650, when the plastic washer wears out (inside the pump gyro) and you can't trust the machine in tight places or around people, and it only costs about $6-8k to fix. Yeah they have gotten better over the years but sticks and peddles don't fail nearly as much, maybe 1 to every 10 joysticks.
You have a valid point
Iv been forced to learn the foot pedal it’s definitely not my choice as iv been used to operating with a joy stick took me about a week to get it down but now I don’t mind it at all using forks and a bucket sometimes idk I like both joystick is just what I was used too
Yeah it’s not too hard to learn either
I have ran both I really like joysticks it's a lot easier to run control throttle I have to run an excavator and the scid steer so the joystick is the same control!
Please tell blacksheep about this :D The joystick has more ms delay (lag) pros cant use that shit. It has servos
My company recently acquired a hand foot skid steer. I am a very competent operator on many machines but I look like a noob on that damn thing lol
I don’t think anyone can operate them smooth 😂😂 (I’m also sure that comment will piss someone off lol)
@@OutdoorsEveryday I see guys every day run them and they are awesome but at the same time they cant just hop on any other machine on the job site and run it to their skill level either. its a tradeoff no doubt.
Yeah it’s interesting how that works lol
@@OutdoorsEveryday Not pissed off but I'm 18 and have only run hand and foot for 2 years now and am pretty damn good at it. now I've never had the chance to drive joystick, but I'm sure I could pick up ISO no problem
Way more control on a hand and foot control machine on a pilot control machine you can’t turn on a dime
I see your point
Positivo Brasil 😊
I just ordered a bobcat t450 lovely machine but has the hand and foot controls I can’t stand it, if they had another machine in stock I would have taken it back right away, it’s so counter intuitive wasting two hands to go and operating the most precise part with your feet, absolute nonsense
You just suck
rifgt hand runs all the boom functions left hand runs all the travel functions. why make it any more fucked up?? mix it up between the two? really?
Wow
I do not mind those controls. It is the Case controls that I dislike with the travel and bucket functions all on the steering levers.. My Deere 325 has foot controls and I like it that way.. It is a good powerful machine with a five cylinder Deer engine @76 HP..
Foot controls heel toe bud
ISO all day
I hate hand and foot controls