Meanwhile, his accomplishments stand. His massive vision in the Ring required him to do the research, write the books, design the theatre, the props, the machinery; he needed to master optics, lighting, costume, architecture, history, languages, and had a clear enough understanding of Psychology-music and human nature to know, KNOW accurately how his work would *Impact* listeners! NOBODY else in history has compiled anything close to this. He is one of 3-4 greatest geniuses of all, just a FACT.
This very scene from the Boulez Ring was my first introduction to Wagner...it disturbed me greatly and thrilled me beyond words. Wagner truly plumbed the depths of emotion at its darkest (and most beautiful) levels.
My favourite production and no matter how many times I hear this it rips me to shreds. Wagner the towering genius.....once you have found him he will never let you go.
The perfect Wotan - a real Bassbariton. He has no problem with the high notes like bass Wotans but also has the warm and strong middle voice that some of the baritones do not. Klasse.
I find that what makes this version also so effective is that the performance really shows a father-daughter relationship between McIntyre and Jones. The chemistry between them works extremely well, which is something that you do not see with, for example, obviously aged Brünnhildes like Hildegard Behrens in the Levine/Met version ;-)
I attended a live concert performance of this last night and even without costume and set, this section always touches my heart. Opera North hit the spot and the tears flowed. Wagner may have been a psychologically-flawed SOB but he was a genius. This performance is the most moving I have seen.
I think you must be right, I'm tearing up as I'm listening to this. ;-) I also have a tough, independent daughter who is my spitting image, and this scene always gets to me. One of the most "human" moments in all of Wagner, even if they're gods.
It's so important to observe that when singing in this theater how the singers are easily able to project their voices. At minute 6:00 one hears how McIntyre bring's down his huge voice to a pianissimo while still being clearly heard. It's another reason why singers enjoy Bayreuth so much because the orchestra is under the stage, allowing them to play out without covering the voices. Pity not all houses are constructed like so. An open pit can cause an imbalance if conductors are not careful.
Have you read The Perfect Wagnerite by George Bernard Shaw? It was published in the late 1800s, and argued that the Ring is in fact a parable about the time in which it was written. This production just took that idea one step further, and actually staged the work as such. It's just fine to reject that whole premise outright, but it's only fair to appreciate this production as the immensely thoughtful and sincere effort that it is.
All in all, the best DVD Valkyrie out there is Boulez', and this is one of the scenes that proves why. They act as well as sing, and everything comes together beautifully. As long as we're griping about Hotter (poor guy), he's terrible in Solti's rendition (it was near the end of his career--and his voice) but great in Knappertsbusch's 1956 Cycle. Though my favorite Wotan ever is one most people haven't heard: Norman Bailey, Goodall's Wotan in the ENO cycle. Still, McIntyre isn't bad. . .
And then... then... KNOWING how it would hit us, he wrote... THE MUSIC. I sit and sail in a moment like this, as Chrysothemis said above, that high D# ripping my heart right open and realise... He did this to [us], to me... on purpose. He knew what this would do. *That* is Incomparable, utterly Incomparable, and far from his "weaknesses" making us question the validity of his worldview, the power of his genius SHOULD make rational men question their Own.
As devastating as I've always found this production, and especially this scene, I always find myself wondering: how many other productions have you seen where the baritone would actually have been able to lift the soprano off the ground?
@Chrysothemis I don't know how I missed your comment before now... Yes that D#, I KNOW! I KNOW!! I KNOW!!! Every damn time. I am an utter wreck by the end of Die Walkure; and as much as I would love to hear-see a full production again I can't do it to myself or other opera-goers. I attended the Centennary Ring in '76, and was fairly dragged from the theatre at the conclusion of Walkure; I barely remember Gotterdammerung at all I was so overwhelmed by the whole Ring.
looks pretty awesome so far, very very stylish and well produced, I have to check that out closely, siegfrieds funeral is unbelievable , but thats probably because its my absolute favorite moment out of whole wagner
@vidiegoquam I agree. Wagner deemed this farewell so important that he wrote what is the apotheosis of opera to accompany it. Because Wotan has lost EVERYTHING. And so has Brunhilde.
And that was Chereau's real genius in completely re-visualizing the concept of the Ring. I attended in 1976, I didn't "like" it but I knew I was seeing something hugely important in HOW to understand Wagner. I expected (and wanted) gods 'n goddesses, fairy-tale castles and what we got was this. But 40 years later it's still as important as ever because it contains a key that many (if not most) viewers simply miss. Indeed it could be the White House, or Gates and Obama, etc, and still make sense.
I remember seeing this on Chan 13. Wonder where I can get the full ring like this on DVD (I think that is what they call it now) WOW What memories. I so LOVE my opera. Too bad I have to give it all up. My last season at The Met. Why?? No money. Poverty. It all caught up w/me.
@Spiritakis yes we all have our favourites- perhaps it would be more accurate to say that this particular performance is wonderful in this highly credited production.
@Nixonfan2011 The story goes that Wotan gave up one eye in exchange for wisdom. Earlier in this production, he was wearing an eye patch. However, during Act Two, he ripped it off.
I have viewed this Ring and the one done by Levine at the Met. And I much prefer this version, the performance by Dame Jones and McIntyre is so much more powerful.
@BorisGodunov Who speaks of logic? And who said that Boris Christoff ever sang the role? I meant his recording of Wotan's Farewell. Of course it is absurd to extrapolate whole role from one segment only - but no more so than maintaining that one has to admire McIntyre, or any other singer, simply because somebody else says so. Which is indeed what I really meant.
@cantanto999 A good point indeed. Different points of view would naturally produce different results. I do not in the least pretend to have any idea of singing or being on stage. Nor do I think this is necessary to appreciate singing on the stage. It is just personal. For me other singers made McIntyre sound dull. That's my point. PS '' the best Wotan ever'' sounds pretty much like hero worship to me.
@Spiritakis Obviously you have no idea at all! "decently sung"? Donald McIntyre was most likely the best Wotan ever. Chéreau's staging is simply perfect - but that, of course, is a matter of taste! Danalds singing is not a matter of taste. Anyone who has ears and any idea understands that this sublime!
If you look at the symbolism, that would indicate Wotan attempting to destroy his pure will (Brunnhilde symbolizing all of Wotans longings notregarding his treaties and pacts he has to control the world). Would seem rather extreme to me indeed ;-)
@AtheneNikephoros Yes, I'm aware of that. But singing one bit in a concert isn't singing a "role," as it's not remotely comparable to performing all of Wotan in staged performances repeatedly over the course of one's career. Christoff was never Wotan, and there's no way one could logically say that he was the "greatest Wotan ever," even in a subjective sense.
I know of no composer, artist or writer that was not significantly (psycho) flawed. Wagner makes an easy target over so-called Nazi-ism; few who repeat those charges have ever studied his actual writings in any depth but are content with half-baked post-war prejudice, and it is just that. It MAY have substance, prejudice often does! but none who has asserted to me how evil W. was has been able to point to a single statement of his writings (much less music) to justify or "prove" that assumption.
Yes, it is indeed the motif of Renunciation. It appears at this moment because Wotan is renouncing love (of Brunnhilde, by parting with her forever) in order to secure his power. He could have chosen not to, but that would have been illegal, and thus his authority as divine lawgiver would have been undermined.
I agree. There is almost an incestuous undertone present in the Levine/Met version that I really haven't seen in other ones. The only flaw with this one's Die Walküre is that Wotan threatens Brünnhilde at spear point when she questions his order to kill Siegmund. It's good sturm und drang, but I can't imagine even Wotan being that extreme!
nope never read that, but it definitely puts a different spin on all this. Still Im much more comfortable with what Ring is for me - a kickass mythology tale
Indeed :) Actually the gods would, at a certain point in Wagners vision, be only given privilege if adressed as 'human' - the whole idea during composition of the first part of the Ring is the evolution of a race superior to that of the gods, ie humans. According to George Bernard Shaw (in his 'The Perfect Wagnerite') Wagners renewed insights accord for the relatively poor metaphorical or narrative value of Götterdämmerung (imho not when one adresses composition technique ;-))
@pepebuho Everything she wanted?!? She's saying goodbye to her beloved father, permanently. She's being deprived of her godhood. She's losing everything she's ever known. She has won her concession: she won't be at the mercy of any man, but "only" of a "free hero" ok... but she's still losing her freedom as she knows it (though I'm not of course suggesting Bruennhilde doesn't have freedom/agency in the last two operas.)
@Spiritakis First: I am not your mate. Second: I do indeed have an Idee about "the essende of art". In comparison to you I am actually one of those ON stage and not off. There is no hero worship here. That Christoff, Hottet etc. were amazing, sublime, perfect in many ways, too is not the point here. How exactly does this make McIntyre worse.? Only someone who has no idea about singing, about being on stage, performing can say that Donalds Wotan is "decently sung". That was my point. Regards. C.
But the point of "mythology" is to set those huge themes: power and lust, life, death and love, characters larger-than-life but RECOGNIZABLE. For the Greeks, it was Zeus and Hera; in Norse, Wotan, Fricka and Loge... for our "mythos," how about Carnegies and Mellons, Vanderbilts and Kennedys? THAT is what this depicts: the themes are unchanged, the characters still recognizable; the Imagery here is Industrial Revolution billionaires. (How about Valhalla as the White House? Same idea...)
If you haven't already, check out the 1989 recording from the Met conducted by Levine. It's a killer performance in the traditional style. There's a reasonably priced DVD set, and I believe much of it is on RUclips as well.
@cantanto999 Obviously you have no idea about the essence of art, mate. Everything - absolutely everything - is a matter of taste. I don't mind your hero worship of McIntyre; by the same logic I could say Boris Christoff was the greatest Wotan ever, but I personally prefer Thomas Stewart. And then there are Hans Hotter, Theo Adam (at their prime), and a good many older masters like Friedrich Schorr, to name but just one. Considering it is a live performance, McIntyre isn't bad at all.
wow no offense but do the producers even know what is it about? is that Odin, high chief of all norse gods, dressed in a suit with -holy shit- a tie? sure why not, thats how they all used to walk about back in the viking days
Did not like it. I prefer the MET one. Come on, she is getting everything she wanted, but instead of looking happy or satisfied,she stands there like all scared-like.
Boulez ruins this lovely music by not paying attention to the unique Bayreuth acoustics. Listen to Karl Bohm, he got it just right with lovely portamento in the strings
yes, folks this is the infamous prouduction that caused opera's down fall. Take a god and put him in a business suit!! James Morris at the MEt atleast brought a retro against the madness.
Competently conducted, decently sung, grossly overacted, apallingly staged. One of the greatest perversities in the history of Wagner's performence practice.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Meanwhile, his accomplishments stand. His massive vision in the Ring required him to do the research, write the books, design the theatre, the props, the machinery; he needed to master optics, lighting, costume, architecture, history, languages, and had a clear enough understanding of Psychology-music and human nature to know, KNOW accurately how his work would *Impact* listeners! NOBODY else in history has compiled anything close to this. He is one of 3-4 greatest geniuses of all, just a FACT.
McIntyre, one of the absolute great Wotans. He is phenomenal here.
This very scene from the Boulez Ring was my first introduction to Wagner...it disturbed me greatly and thrilled me beyond words. Wagner truly plumbed the depths of emotion at its darkest (and most beautiful) levels.
My favourite production and no matter how many times I hear this it rips me to shreds. Wagner the towering genius.....once you have found him he will never let you go.
The way McIntyre times his walk (3:29-3:39) to the music is astonishing and so overwhelming...
The perfect Wotan - a real Bassbariton. He has no problem with the high notes like bass Wotans but also has the warm and strong middle voice that some of the baritones do not. Klasse.
Absolutely sublime, I don't think I've heard a better version. Thankyou for posting
I find that what makes this version also so effective is that the performance really shows a father-daughter relationship between McIntyre and Jones. The chemistry between them works extremely well, which is something that you do not see with, for example, obviously aged Brünnhildes like Hildegard Behrens in the Levine/Met version ;-)
I attended a live concert performance of this last night and even without costume and set, this section always touches my heart. Opera North hit the spot and the tears flowed. Wagner may have been a psychologically-flawed SOB but he was a genius. This performance is the most moving I have seen.
I think you must be right, I'm tearing up as I'm listening to this. ;-) I also have a tough, independent daughter who is my spitting image, and this scene always gets to me. One of the most "human" moments in all of Wagner, even if they're gods.
The music from 2:36 to 4:20: one of the most moving depictions of grief I've ever come across--in any media.
It's so important to observe that when singing in this theater how the singers are easily able to project their voices. At minute 6:00 one hears how McIntyre bring's down his huge voice to a pianissimo while still being clearly heard. It's another reason why singers enjoy Bayreuth so much because the orchestra is under the stage, allowing them to play out without covering the voices. Pity not all houses are constructed like so. An open pit can cause an imbalance if conductors are not careful.
What a peformance! So intense. Thanks for uploading.
Have you read The Perfect Wagnerite by George Bernard Shaw? It was published in the late 1800s, and argued that the Ring is in fact a parable about the time in which it was written. This production just took that idea one step further, and actually staged the work as such.
It's just fine to reject that whole premise outright, but it's only fair to appreciate this production as the immensely thoughtful and sincere effort that it is.
There can't have been many times in Bayreuth's history that Wotan has lifted Brunhilde of the ground!
All in all, the best DVD Valkyrie out there is Boulez', and this is one of the scenes that proves why. They act as well as sing, and everything comes together beautifully.
As long as we're griping about Hotter (poor guy), he's terrible in Solti's rendition (it was near the end of his career--and his voice) but great in Knappertsbusch's 1956 Cycle. Though my favorite Wotan ever is one most people haven't heard: Norman Bailey, Goodall's Wotan in the ENO cycle. Still, McIntyre isn't bad. . .
Beautifully done. Bravo! TY.
That high D# at 3:35 makes me feel like my heart is being ripped right out of my chest. Every damn time.
And then... then... KNOWING how it would hit us, he wrote... THE MUSIC. I sit and sail in a moment like this, as Chrysothemis said above, that high D# ripping my heart right open and realise... He did this to [us], to me... on purpose. He knew what this would do. *That* is Incomparable, utterly Incomparable, and far from his "weaknesses" making us question the validity of his worldview, the power of his genius SHOULD make rational men question their Own.
As devastating as I've always found this production, and especially this scene, I always find myself wondering: how many other productions have you seen where the baritone would actually have been able to lift the soprano off the ground?
Mine too...thank you for uploading this.
Don't forget John Johnson. He's absolute awesome in the Copenhagen Ring. Heck, he can serve Mime cake and still be awesome.
@Chrysothemis I don't know how I missed your comment before now... Yes that D#, I KNOW! I KNOW!! I KNOW!!! Every damn time. I am an utter wreck by the end of Die Walkure; and as much as I would love to hear-see a full production again I can't do it to myself or other opera-goers. I attended the Centennary Ring in '76, and was fairly dragged from the theatre at the conclusion of Walkure; I barely remember Gotterdammerung at all I was so overwhelmed by the whole Ring.
@UlfenDaddy As a german, I must admit you understand every word he is singing. THAT is important if you listent to Wagner - for me
looks pretty awesome so far, very very stylish and well produced, I have to check that out closely, siegfrieds funeral is unbelievable , but thats probably because its my absolute favorite moment out of whole wagner
@vidiegoquam I agree. Wagner deemed this farewell so important that he wrote what is the apotheosis of opera to accompany it. Because Wotan has lost EVERYTHING. And so has Brunhilde.
And that was Chereau's real genius in completely re-visualizing the concept of the Ring. I attended in 1976, I didn't "like" it but I knew I was seeing something hugely important in HOW to understand Wagner. I expected (and wanted) gods 'n goddesses, fairy-tale castles and what we got was this. But 40 years later it's still as important as ever because it contains a key that many (if not most) viewers simply miss. Indeed it could be the White House, or Gates and Obama, etc, and still make sense.
I remember seeing this on Chan 13. Wonder where I can get the full ring like this on DVD (I think that is what they call it now) WOW What memories. I so LOVE my opera. Too bad I have to give it all up. My last season at The Met. Why?? No money. Poverty. It all caught up w/me.
Die Inszenierung ist von Patrice Chèreau (Fernsehuebertragung 1983).
Indeed !
One of Wanger's great lines
@Spiritakis yes we all have our favourites- perhaps it would be more accurate to say that this particular performance is wonderful in this highly credited production.
@Nixonfan2011 The story goes that Wotan gave up one eye in exchange for wisdom. Earlier in this production, he was wearing an eye patch. However, during Act Two, he ripped it off.
OH Donald McIntyre!!!
Che musica sublime!!!!
La musica più bella mai scritta da Wagner!!!
My god... the genius of that! The will to do that!
I have viewed this Ring and the one done by Levine at the Met. And I much prefer this version, the performance by Dame Jones and McIntyre is so much more powerful.
why is Wotan's left eye closed? was that intentional?
@BorisGodunov Christoff, however, did sing Wotan's Farewell during his debut concert.
@Chrysothemis Truly felt and well said.
Donald McIntyre, he is really a kind of God in this repertoire. I adore his interpratation of this great music.
@BorisGodunov
Who speaks of logic? And who said that Boris Christoff ever sang the role?
I meant his recording of Wotan's Farewell. Of course it is absurd to extrapolate whole role from one segment only - but no more so than maintaining that one has to admire McIntyre, or any other singer, simply because somebody else says so. Which is indeed what I really meant.
Yes, hermanzoon. Mcintyre is my preferred Wotan...
@Spiritakis Er, I'm not sure how anyone could logically say Christoff was the greatest Wotan ever, considering he never sang the role...
Great, but the best version for me it's, Thomas Stewart and Herbert Von Karajan
3:23 Brividi!!!!!!!!!
@cantanto999
A good point indeed. Different points of view would naturally produce different results. I do not in the least pretend to have any idea of singing or being on stage. Nor do I think this is necessary to appreciate singing on the stage. It is just personal. For me other singers made McIntyre sound dull. That's my point.
PS '' the best Wotan ever'' sounds pretty much like hero worship to me.
@Spiritakis Obviously you have no idea at all!
"decently sung"? Donald McIntyre was most likely the best Wotan ever.
Chéreau's staging is simply perfect - but that, of course, is a matter of taste!
Danalds singing is not a matter of taste. Anyone who has ears and any idea understands that this sublime!
If you look at the symbolism, that would indicate Wotan attempting to destroy his pure will (Brunnhilde symbolizing all of Wotans longings notregarding his treaties and pacts he has to control the world). Would seem rather extreme to me indeed ;-)
Honestly, why does Wotan (!) wear a tailcoat??
just search this on youtube to get a preview then :P
marion ammann sieglinde akt 3
cool
I am not a big fan of Bryn Terfel. I have seen Rene Pape's Wotan some months ago, and I cannot imagine a better Wotan nowadays (next to Dohmen)
@AtheneNikephoros Yes, I'm aware of that. But singing one bit in a concert isn't singing a "role," as it's not remotely comparable to performing all of Wotan in staged performances repeatedly over the course of one's career. Christoff was never Wotan, and there's no way one could logically say that he was the "greatest Wotan ever," even in a subjective sense.
Ach, außer mir, mein Lieblingswotan: Theo Adam!
Donald McIntyre, Theo Adam, Bryn Terfel, Albert Dohmen: THE WOTANS.
@BorisGodunov Yes, of course. It's nothing like actually BEING Wotan.
I know of no composer, artist or writer that was not significantly (psycho) flawed. Wagner makes an easy target over so-called Nazi-ism; few who repeat those charges have ever studied his actual writings in any depth but are content with half-baked post-war prejudice, and it is just that. It MAY have substance, prejudice often does! but none who has asserted to me how evil W. was has been able to point to a single statement of his writings (much less music) to justify or "prove" that assumption.
Valkyrie punk bikers, now thats something Id go to ! :-)
Yes, it is indeed the motif of Renunciation. It appears at this moment because Wotan is renouncing love (of Brunnhilde, by parting with her forever) in order to secure his power.
He could have chosen not to, but that would have been illegal, and thus his authority as divine lawgiver would have been undermined.
@RVP57 Definetely!
Das sehe ich genauso. Der war nämlich der Dirigent.
But of course it is - in your opinion.
You are excused for ''chiming in''.
I agree. There is almost an incestuous undertone present in the Levine/Met version that I really haven't seen in other ones. The only flaw with this one's Die Walküre is that Wotan threatens Brünnhilde at spear point when she questions his order to kill Siegmund. It's good sturm und drang, but I can't imagine even Wotan being that extreme!
Hotter rocks.
nope never read that, but it definitely puts a different spin on all this. Still Im much more comfortable with what Ring is for me - a kickass mythology tale
agree with hermanzoon, amazing. Hans Hotter is the joke as wotan
Hmm.. Hotter a "joke"? That's like saying Johnny Bench was not one of the top catchers of all time.
@drommetenrot Watch the whole Ring (THIS Ring) and you will wish for Wotan never to wear anything else again.
Indeed :) Actually the gods would, at a certain point in Wagners vision, be only given privilege if adressed as 'human' - the whole idea during composition of the first part of the Ring is the evolution of a race superior to that of the gods, ie humans. According to George Bernard Shaw (in his 'The Perfect Wagnerite') Wagners renewed insights accord for the relatively poor metaphorical or narrative value of Götterdämmerung (imho not when one adresses composition technique ;-))
Still, the production wasn't that bad. At least the walkeries weren't dressed as punk bikers.
@pepebuho Everything she wanted?!? She's saying goodbye to her beloved father, permanently. She's being deprived of her godhood. She's losing everything she's ever known. She has won her concession: she won't be at the mercy of any man, but "only" of a "free hero" ok... but she's still losing her freedom as she knows it (though I'm not of course suggesting Bruennhilde doesn't have freedom/agency in the last two operas.)
I saw the same production the following year ('77), and the Wotan was nowhere near as good.
@Spiritakis
First: I am not your mate.
Second: I do indeed have an Idee about "the essende of art". In comparison to you I am actually one of those ON stage and not off. There is no hero worship here. That Christoff, Hottet etc. were amazing, sublime, perfect in many ways, too is not the point here. How exactly does this make McIntyre worse.?
Only someone who has no idea about singing, about being on stage, performing can say that Donalds Wotan is "decently sung". That was my point. Regards. C.
But the point of "mythology" is to set those huge themes: power and lust, life, death and love, characters larger-than-life but RECOGNIZABLE. For the Greeks, it was Zeus and Hera; in Norse, Wotan, Fricka and Loge... for our "mythos," how about Carnegies and Mellons, Vanderbilts and Kennedys? THAT is what this depicts: the themes are unchanged, the characters still recognizable; the Imagery here is Industrial Revolution billionaires. (How about Valhalla as the White House? Same idea...)
If you haven't already, check out the 1989 recording from the Met conducted by Levine. It's a killer performance in the traditional style. There's a reasonably priced DVD set, and I believe much of it is on RUclips as well.
Ja, das ist der beste Teil der Walküre, keine Frage.
Aber ich kann das besser singen!
@cantanto999
Obviously you have no idea about the essence of art, mate. Everything - absolutely everything - is a matter of taste. I don't mind your hero worship of McIntyre; by the same logic I could say Boris Christoff was the greatest Wotan ever, but I personally prefer Thomas Stewart. And then there are Hans Hotter, Theo Adam (at their prime), and a good many older masters like Friedrich Schorr, to name but just one. Considering it is a live performance, McIntyre isn't bad at all.
PLEASE, Hans Hotter.
*kühnes
@drommetenrot Because it's all about the rise of Industrial Capitalism.
wow no offense but do the producers even know what is it about? is that Odin, high chief of all norse gods, dressed in a suit with -holy shit- a tie? sure why not, thats how they all used to walk about back in the viking days
Did not like it. I prefer the MET one. Come on, she is getting everything she wanted, but instead of looking happy or satisfied,she stands there like all scared-like.
Boulez ruins this lovely music by not paying attention to the unique Bayreuth acoustics. Listen to Karl Bohm, he got it just right with lovely portamento in the strings
yes, folks this is the infamous prouduction that caused opera's down fall. Take a god and put him in a business suit!! James Morris at the MEt atleast brought a retro against the madness.
But his diction... gawd his terrible DICTION!!!
Competently conducted, decently sung, grossly overacted, apallingly staged. One of the greatest perversities in the history of Wagner's performence practice.
horrible voice -