It seems to me that MOST of the time, church musicians want to do a good job. Be patient and see if there’s a way to communicate. Years ago, I was brought on as the bassist at church. The guy I took over from is a guitarist and he didn’t like bass so he played VERY basic, pounding the 1/8’s on the root. Well, when I came in with my 5 string, the MD was excited. We start playing rehearsal and the MD asked me to play some [more interesting lines-for lack of a better way to put it]. The drummer was very good, but very busy. He was used to what I call a Michael Anthony (bassist for VanHalen). I had to tell the MD, the drummer “is playing too many notes, I don’t have any room”. The MD went over and said one thing to the drummer (I didn’t hear what he said), and immediately the drummer started playing differently. We locked in like an expensive watch, it sounded tight and good. The drummer was always nice and friendly with me. Just a really great guy. He simply needed the MD to let him know what needed to be done. So egos are a problem but before you think the other guy has an ego, see if there’s just a misunderstanding and maybe it’s a simple fix. This drummer and I never had any hard feelings or harsh words. I’d watch his foot (bass drum) and we’d play great together.
Pride is a major issue with musicians God has given talents and gifts to people as a musician I’ve learned to be humble. Learning from musicians helps me to grow as a musician . No musician knows every piece of music
Quit lying to people an imaginary friend gave no musician ever the ability to play an instrument it comes from hard work and practice. Just like every thing else..
I really enjoy your videos. You are the voice of reason in the Gospel music world. It's important to be humble and treat others well. church musicians who constantly overplay because they have been encouraged to do so in church. makes for a long night, lol
"The power of simplicity..." Well spoken! The greatest hit Motown ever had was one of the simplest songs they ever released. It was "My Girl." Do you know why? Because average, everyday singers and musicians can do it!
Musicians overplaying is the main reason why I stopped playing in church and began serving the Lord in other ways. I have always been a musician that plays simple, yet tateful guitar. I play to compliment the vocalists and not make the moment about me. As a musician, I know who I am and I know what I can do. I don't have to try and impress anyone! It's all about glorifying God with the gift he has bestowed upon me.
Why don't people get this! It gets me angry it's a reason why I even stopped focus on perfecting on my harmonies but rather communing with the the Lord during worship!
It’s great to hear you give advice to church musicians. So many folks who are professional musicians started playing, and are still playing at church. Sometimes we just get stuck and need some help.
I was in a country band once and we hired a new bass player. New bass player kept making everything sound like jazz. One day I dropped a hint and told him he sounded like a jazz musician. His reply was "Thanks". LMAO. He just automatically considered it a complement. Sounding jazz is only a complement if you are playing in a jazz band! Play was is called for.
Keeping the integrity of the song is key. Overplaying or impromptu breakouts/solos doesn't serve the song, the audience, or your reputation. Do your part.
So true... Over complexity is a plague amongst us black musicians... So much we do not take time to notice how repulsive it is to maintream music... Our over complexity only apeals to an extremely tiny demographic in the music industry and the world at large.. The recognition we seek comes from the billions of people that our overcomplexity Sounds like audio heiroglyphs. That is why we have so many extremely talented musicians and singers that i admire but rarely get the musical recognition they are worth in thwir life time... Its so sad... We see the best of the best and the most recognized music pieces in the world in our contemporary times are actually very simple... So simple i couldnt pull the composition off at my simplest mode... This is alarming and we gotta do something about it... I do not say we should not be expressive... By all means we should when we having fun but when we wanna put something out to the world that would determine how we are perceived artistically in music let it be as simple as the piece of art deserves and not go betond certain complexities that will deform it completely... Thank you Mr Terrwnce you are a breath of fresh are in this space❤
I listen to you a lot. This episode touched on so much stuff that I face weekly as a church musician. Pretty much everything. It's so difficult for being at the Church I'm at because some of topics you touched on in this episode. Some of the people in-charge of things are not committed to excellence for the ministry of the church. I'm content with the pay there, it's just the people and things I deal with on a weekly basis that upsets me. Some of the people in charge have been at this church for many years and other members are tired of the same things that I am. Sometimes, I feel like leaving, but I really like this church and so does my wife. It's like I'm caught between a rock and a hard place. I've tried talking to other leaders in the church about my concerns, but it's or I get shot down or I hear, It's always been like this and the musicians that's been there for a long time are not going to change. What do you do!?
Being a dummer I think drummers tend to be the biggest offenders. I have never understood why “Gospel chops” on drums have always been a thing. It’s loud, overplaying, and is more of a “look at me and what I can do” kinda thing instead of praise and worship. Drives me nuts.
The contemporary churches I have visited in the last couple years are almost all the same. Soaring pad sounds on the keyboard….( which by the way seem to be fitted into a gutted, painted flat black spinet piano on wheels) . Poor guy on the acoustic guitar who gets the chance to lead a few songs….. his guitar is never heard because of the constant crashing cymbals and bass guitarist proving how powerful their sub-woofers are. Drummer is guilty of that as well with the double mic’d kick drum. Electric guitar always sounds thin and gutless…. yet the person playing it thinks he’s a star. Sorry to be so down on this CCM but it has been many churches…. 1200-2500 people churches that this is common. The saddest part is to look around to almost no congregational participation. I pray that some day, churches will come back to the Heart of Worship
As I hear your stories and compare them with my experiences, the more I am convinced that the part of the body of Christ that uses a cappella as worship to God is good idea. Although, one better is to not label music as worship and musicians as worship leaders. Simply don't use music in the formal corporate gatherings. Save music for the times we are gathering together socially. Music and musicians are perfectly fine when socially gathering together to enjoy each other's company. Plus, it may give a reason for the community to meet more than on Sundays and Wednesdays. Plus, if there is ego in the room. At least it won't taint the corporate time we come to focus our attention upon the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. My two cents worth.
Playing home going services is something I didn't like to because every musician comes and they all want to make the services about them. Now I don't play home going services for anyone other then family and close friends. And I don't charge them. Now if I don't know the family yeah your going to have to pay me.
At 53 years old played with The Old School Gospel Quartet Legends, I have to disagree with you where I am a Church Musician as well travelled. Old Solutions Still Works: We knew the singers were the reason people came to concerts and Old School Quartets did not tolerate musicians to overplay the songs. We were Committed and Accountable to our Pastors where we Respected our elders where today some of these young “entitled-know it all” act like we are foreigners. We didn’t have phones and we Respected The Church with our demeanor and clothing. We were not playing secular all week and play at Church on Sunday; Heck No! We weren’t waiting the night before or day of getting the songs where we had them weeks in advance to catch The Spirit of the song. We didn’t confuse other people’s music with somebody else music because we were committed as a marriage not different side chicks. Overall, I respect and I applaud your videos, however, yesterday’s Old School is needed for this generation. Rock Leach just released a video about a lady saying: Musicians getting Paid but they are Playing The Church. Let’s All Go Back To The Old Landmark where The Church was respected.
Unfortunately, this video context of the video is about the change of behavioral outcomes, not an argument of old school. The quote is a misquote from Ram Dass - often contributed to Albert Einstein: “the world that we have made, as a result of the level of thinking we have done thus far, creates problems that we cannot solve at the same level we created them.” Is the actual quote. In contrast, Einstein would have said: “new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move toward higher levels.” Unquote. Either way, your anecdote agrees with this video. His argument isn’t about older solutions not working. The framework is merely a challenge to improve behavior outcomes.
It seems to me that MOST of the time, church musicians want to do a good job. Be patient and see if there’s a way to communicate. Years ago, I was brought on as the bassist at church. The guy I took over from is a guitarist and he didn’t like bass so he played VERY basic, pounding the 1/8’s on the root. Well, when I came in with my 5 string, the MD was excited. We start playing rehearsal and the MD asked me to play some [more interesting lines-for lack of a better way to put it]. The drummer was very good, but very busy. He was used to what I call a Michael Anthony (bassist for VanHalen). I had to tell the MD, the drummer “is playing too many notes, I don’t have any room”. The MD went over and said one thing to the drummer (I didn’t hear what he said), and immediately the drummer started playing differently. We locked in like an expensive watch, it sounded tight and good. The drummer was always nice and friendly with me. Just a really great guy. He simply needed the MD to let him know what needed to be done.
So egos are a problem but before you think the other guy has an ego, see if there’s just a misunderstanding and maybe it’s a simple fix. This drummer and I never had any hard feelings or harsh words. I’d watch his foot (bass drum) and we’d play great together.
Pride is a major issue with musicians God has given talents and gifts to people as a musician I’ve learned to be humble. Learning from musicians helps me to grow as a musician . No musician knows every piece of music
Quit lying to people an imaginary friend gave no musician ever the ability to play an instrument it comes from hard work and practice. Just like every thing else..
46 year old drummer here. All of this is true I’ve been through the lot. Young musicians take note, solid advice given…
I really enjoy your videos. You are the voice of reason in the Gospel music world. It's important to be humble and treat others well. church musicians who constantly overplay because they have been encouraged to do so in church. makes for a long night, lol
"The power of simplicity..."
Well spoken! The greatest hit Motown ever had was one of the simplest songs they ever released. It was "My Girl." Do you know why? Because average, everyday singers and musicians can do it!
Musicians overplaying is the main reason why I stopped playing in church and began serving the Lord in other ways. I have always been a musician that plays simple, yet tateful guitar. I play to compliment the vocalists and not make the moment about me. As a musician, I know who I am and I know what I can do. I don't have to try and impress anyone! It's all about glorifying God with the gift he has bestowed upon me.
Why don't people get this! It gets me angry it's a reason why I even stopped focus on perfecting on my harmonies but rather communing with the the Lord during worship!
It’s great to hear you give advice to church musicians. So many folks who are professional musicians started playing, and are still playing at church.
Sometimes we just get stuck and need some help.
Great points to learn from. Thank you for sharing this!! 🎶🎼✊🏿😎
I was in a country band once and we hired a new bass player. New bass player kept making everything sound like jazz. One day I dropped a hint and told him he sounded like a jazz musician. His reply was "Thanks". LMAO. He just automatically considered it a complement. Sounding jazz is only a complement if you are playing in a jazz band! Play was is called for.
Keeping the integrity of the song is key. Overplaying or impromptu breakouts/solos doesn't serve the song, the audience, or your reputation. Do your part.
Space is a curse word with most church musicians.
So true... Over complexity is a plague amongst us black musicians... So much we do not take time to notice how repulsive it is to maintream music... Our over complexity only apeals to an extremely tiny demographic in the music industry and the world at large.. The recognition we seek comes from the billions of people that our overcomplexity Sounds like audio heiroglyphs. That is why we have so many extremely talented musicians and singers that i admire but rarely get the musical recognition they are worth in thwir life time... Its so sad...
We see the best of the best and the most recognized music pieces in the world in our contemporary times are actually very simple...
So simple i couldnt pull the composition off at my simplest mode...
This is alarming and we gotta do something about it...
I do not say we should not be expressive... By all means we should when we having fun but when we wanna put something out to the world that would determine how we are perceived artistically in music let it be as simple as the piece of art deserves and not go betond certain complexities that will deform it completely...
Thank you Mr Terrwnce you are a breath of fresh are in this space❤
It has to serve the song.
Amen! This is spot on.
I listen to you a lot. This episode touched on so much stuff that I face weekly as a church musician. Pretty much everything. It's so difficult for being at the Church I'm at because some of topics you touched on in this episode. Some of the people in-charge of things are not committed to excellence for the ministry of the church. I'm content with the pay there, it's just the people and things I deal with on a weekly basis that upsets me. Some of the people in charge have been at this church for many years and other members are tired of the same things that I am. Sometimes, I feel like leaving, but I really like this church and so does my wife. It's like I'm caught between a rock and a hard place. I've tried talking to other leaders in the church about my concerns, but it's or I get shot down or I hear, It's always been like this and the musicians that's been there for a long time are not going to change. What do you do!?
Some of which Mr.Fisher is describing is offering God "strange fire" playing w/a worldly attitude in God's presence.
So apparently musicians are nuts across the entire country 😂
😂
Being a dummer I think drummers tend to be the biggest offenders. I have never understood why “Gospel chops” on drums have always been a thing. It’s loud, overplaying, and is more of a “look at me and what I can do” kinda thing instead of praise and worship. Drives me nuts.
Great advice Frat
The contemporary churches I have visited in the last couple years are almost all the same. Soaring pad sounds on the keyboard….( which by the way seem to be fitted into a gutted, painted flat black spinet piano on wheels) . Poor guy on the acoustic guitar who gets the chance to lead a few songs….. his guitar is never heard because of the constant crashing cymbals and bass guitarist proving how powerful their sub-woofers are. Drummer is guilty of that as well with the double mic’d kick drum. Electric guitar always sounds thin and gutless…. yet the person playing it thinks he’s a star. Sorry to be so down on this CCM but it has been many churches…. 1200-2500 people churches that this is common. The saddest part is to look around to almost no congregational participation. I pray that some day, churches will come back to the Heart of Worship
You have a point
In my line of work, not working as a team can get you killed.
Wow
I take it you don't play music for a living, if you do......
My church leadership was pathologically incapable of respecting boundaries. I left
It's going to be hard for me to fall for any traps as a church musician since I refuse to even set foot inside a church
As I hear your stories and compare them with my experiences, the more I am convinced that the part of the body of Christ that uses a cappella as worship to God is good idea. Although, one better is to not label music as worship and musicians as worship leaders. Simply don't use music in the formal corporate gatherings. Save music for the times we are gathering together socially. Music and musicians are perfectly fine when socially gathering together to enjoy each other's company. Plus, it may give a reason for the community to meet more than on Sundays and Wednesdays. Plus, if there is ego in the room. At least it won't taint the corporate time we come to focus our attention upon the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. My two cents worth.
Playing home going services is something I didn't like to because every musician comes and they all want to make the services about them. Now I don't play home going services for anyone other then family and close friends. And I don't charge them. Now if I don't know the family yeah your going to have to pay me.
At 53 years old played with The Old School Gospel Quartet Legends, I have to disagree with you where I am a Church Musician as well travelled. Old Solutions Still Works: We knew the singers were the reason people came to concerts and Old School Quartets did not tolerate musicians to overplay the songs. We were Committed and Accountable to our Pastors where we Respected our elders where today some of these young “entitled-know it all” act like we are foreigners. We didn’t have phones and we Respected The Church with our demeanor and clothing. We were not playing secular all week and play at Church on Sunday; Heck No! We weren’t waiting the night before or day of getting the songs where we had them weeks in advance to catch The Spirit of the song. We didn’t confuse other people’s music with somebody else music because we were committed as a marriage not different side chicks. Overall, I respect and I applaud your videos, however, yesterday’s Old School is needed for this generation. Rock Leach just released a video about a lady saying: Musicians getting Paid but they are Playing The Church. Let’s All Go Back To The Old Landmark where The Church was respected.
Unfortunately, this video context of the video is about the change of behavioral outcomes, not an argument of old school.
The quote is a misquote from Ram Dass - often contributed to Albert Einstein: “the world that we have made, as a result of the level of thinking we have done thus far, creates problems that we cannot solve at the same level we created them.” Is the actual quote.
In contrast, Einstein would have said: “new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move toward higher levels.” Unquote.
Either way, your anecdote agrees with this video. His argument isn’t about older solutions not working. The framework is merely a challenge to improve behavior outcomes.
Old solutions definitely work !!! In actuality as time goes on everything is declining …. Smh .. the scriptures speaks of these times
That's why....I don't get along with other musicans, mainly other guitar players, it's an art not a life saving science humble up people.
Were they were all homosexuals, including the deceased?
All ten traps to avoid and no biblical scriptures.
Cause this ain’t about the scriptures …. Unfortunately …
@@shonuff718 all our life is based on the word of God. If it’s not then there’s an issue.. that’s why so many “musicians” have issues.
first
I’m only guilty of 1 sometimes.