Tommy was NEVER going to make it. He was just too wild and brash. If I remember correctly, in the book, it’s mentioned that someone in Tommy’s family (affiliated with his uncle I believe) was a rat and that’s why he was so desperate to prove himself and be a big bad gangster. He had a terminal case of “Cowboy-itis” as Tony Soprano would say.
Nooo tommy was fear ful gangster....his fear of Paulie jimmy evident ..he masks it acting wild ..why he fears Jimmy & Paulie ..cause those 2 are super evil .... 24/7....Paulie top evil
Pesci and DeNiro, along with Liotta, carried the movie together. Every scene those actors were in, alone or together, was phenomenal. Their acting was so natural and weirdly warm in a messed up way that I wanted to be part of their world. It's a great movie alongside Casino and Godfather.
Yes I can absolutely believe it, but not because he wasn’t great in Goodfellas. You see, people are weak, ignorant-tipping-into-stupid, unoriginal, cruel, petty and, above all, jealous. Any award that is given away through a majority-vote is automatically, and forever, suspect anyway; don’t ever trust a human’s “opinion”. Ray is acting in god’s theater now. The audiences are much more appreciative. Wish someone had had that talk with me when inwas a kid…sigh…
In an interview, Henry Hill, when asked what he felt when he heard Tommy had been killed, said "Honestly, relieved." I believe there are at least two murders attributed to Tommy, of complete strangers, whom he killed simply because he wanted to try out a new gun he`d gotten.
Actually he committed six murders in total. He murdered a total stranger named Harold Goldstein on a whim, he aided Jimmy Burke in killing William "Billy Batts" Devino, shot Michael "Spider" Gianco (the young bartender), strangled Burke's friend Dominick Cersani for snitching, beat to death a warehouse foreman he and a friend were trying to intimidate, and shot to death Roland "Foxy" Jarothe (this killing is what probably got him murdered by the Gambino family, because Jarothe was also made, and John Gotti was his good friend.)
@@monroetoolman Based upon him. Although irl Tommy and Henry were actually walking, not driving, when the former shot Goldstein. According to Henry Hill, Hill told DeSimone after the shooting "That was cold blooded, Tommy!" To which DeSimone replied "Well, I am a mean cat."
The part where Karen witnessed the hosing of the car was way after the death of Batts. They dug up the body because they found out a construction project was about to happen where they buried him. The truth is that the Gambino family knew it was Tommy. The only reason they didn't kill Desimone right away was to avoid a feud. When Tommy let people see his face in the Lufthansa heist, he became a liability and Paul Vario gave Gotti the green light to take him out. It wasn't a shot to the head either. Gotti tortured DeSimone, according the Hill.
And his body has never been found. Also, didn't DeSimone (Tommy) sexually assault Paul Vario's wife while Paul was serving prison time with Henry and others (as depicted in the film)?
@@fiacomic It wouldn't surprise me if Tommy's body was somewhere in 'The Hole' in Brooklyn, (Gotti's body dumping ground) although his body could have been disintegrated with a lime burial.
It is necessary to read Pileggi's book "Wiseguy: Life in a Mafia Family" to understand the unspoken and unseen facets of "the life" omitted from the movie. It is also helpful to remember that the movie is told from H. Hill's POV. He never commits a murder and he is always trying to be a peacemaker. For the movie it had to be that way. The real Henry Hill was NOT the dashing Ray Liotta.
All the little lines too.. like just before they killed Murray he was talking about point shaving in college basketball- Boston college . And the DA prosecutor for Henry was an alumnus of - Boston college. Also at Henry and Karen’s wedding there is some similar discussion. Interesting note - one of the people in the restaurant roll call scene is an old wealthy man living in Las Vegas.
I noticed that too. Henry never committed any serious crimes...at least not in his eyes. He was just a guy looking to be a somebody in a world of schnooks.
That's obvious pretty quickly to anybody who's ever watched an interview of the real Henry Hill. Somebody also said the movie portrayal of the real Paul Vario was also way off.
@@BrandonLeech I think it's safe to say that the movie made ALL of the characters more sympathetic for two reasons, for one thing it is told from Henry's perspective and Henry did, in fact, genuinely like them. But the truth is, if they showed them for who they REALLY were, nobody watching the movie would like any of them. You have to on some level like the characters, particularly the main characters, or else the movie will flop. But yeah Vario was pretty heinous. He even had an affair with Hill's wife when he was in prison (allegedly).
@@voteZDLR Joe Pesci's portrayal of whoever that real life guy was, was actually pretty accurate from what I've heard. A vicious, unstable and cold bloodedly violent guy with a temper problem. The kind of guy you WOULD make a movie about and who WOULD end up getting wacked in real life.
They're all disgusting pieces of human garbage who we need to stop glamourizing. Scorsese goes out his way to cover up their disgusting behavior because he's a monster apologist. They're all garbage
@@australian2 he made sure NEVER to mention none of the characters smashing Karen because he knew audiences would hate them for it. They're disgusting pieces of human garbage and they all got what they deserved in the end. And Scorsese is an Italian gangster apologist
@@australian2 lmao, did you even watch Goodfellas? If you have any clue about the real story and what actually happened, how in the world could you say he didn't glamorize it?
Using the whole “in real life” thing here is pointless because none of these plot points existed in the movie, such as the affair with Pauly. It was an Occam’s razor thing, plain and simple. They figured out he killed Batts because he was a hothead and literally threatened his life the same night the guy went missing.
The question always was not “if” Tommy was going to get whacked, but “when”. Also, another reason for killing Bill Batts was that while Billy was in prison Jimmy Burke took over Billy’s business and did not want to give it back.
This is a ridiculous question. There was a guy from Billy Bat's crew there that night and saw the beef he had with Tommy. He even heard when Tommy said "keep him here".... When you see that and then Billy immediately goes missing its beyond obvious.
Yeah, and when Paulie asks Henry about Batts and Henry tries to play dumb. Paulie obviously didn't believe him and knew they had something to do with it. No snitch was needed either to off Tommy.
Paulie gave his blessing when the Gambino family told him, they wanted to whack Tommy.... Paulie also said, I will take care of the dirty laundry in my crew.
I know in reality Paulie was having an affair with Henry's wife but I don't believe there's enough evidence to say the same thing was happening in the movie. I feel like it was changed to make Paulie more likable in the film. The line about him knowing what to say to her, to me, comes off as Paulie saying he always knows just what to say to women because he's a charmer.
From what I had read the Paulie from Goodfellas was nothing like the Paulie in real life. The real Paulie was a disgusting pig and a complete slob of a human being. Sounds like the real Paulie moved up in spite of himself. Apparently he raped Karen as well. The real Jimmy the Gent was quite a nasty POS too.....
I think you are exactly right. When he says “especially her”, he just means he knows her well enough to know how to reassure her. I do not believe the writers intended to imply that he was having an affair with her.
I think it was the aggregate total of transgressions by Tommy that got him whacked. He was wild and unpredictable. I don't think anyone necessarily ratted on him. I think they sort of put 2 & 2 together and decided it was time for Tommy to go. He was bad for business. Simple as that.
I knew Tommy Desimone from the 1970's. I wasn't his friend, but we shared drinks and laughs together at a bar. He was a fun guy and would have you laughing all night. The movie didn't show how drug addicted he was. I knew he was a street guy but underestimated his body count. Glad I didn't piss him off.
This was apparently what occurred in real life. GoodFellas doesn't really want to focus on it I can imagine because of time and portraying Karen as a victim being cheated on. To show that she cheated as well would merely highlight her hypocrisy and make Henry's affair less poignant in the story.
Also wanted to make Henry not seem as much of a sell out. He knew about the affair in the real world and he used it to pressure Paulie into favourable acts
Tommy was entirely expendable. His only use was muscle, plus remember there were other Bats associates at the club that witnessed Tommy fly off the handle before he left. Wouldn't have taken Paulie too much to put two and two together after having a sit down with Bats' family. Like I said, Tommy could be cut loose. Henry and Jimmy, although not made members, were big earners for Paulie so were not as easily spared.
those witnesses would tell their bosses about this squabble as soon as possible. in real life Tommy DeVito killed Batts only after two weeks they had argument so no one could witness it. in the movie he killed Batts the same night.
@@skimaskthefinesselord Batts was a childhood friend of Gotti's he wouldnt have cared if Batt's crew were only speculating about who they thought was the killer. Its even rumored Gotti dropped the hammer personally.
Paulie doesn't help the bar owner out , he was the one telling Tommy to rack up a tab and cause trouble. That way the bar owner would ask for his help and they could baisically sabotage the business and make easy money like they did in the movie. Tommy even tells Henry in the bar "you know you're supposed to be doing this stuff to you know" after smashing the bottle on the owners head throwing shit at the waiter. This whole take has a few flaws.
Yup. The goal was to cause trouble, then when the owner asked for Paulies help, Paulie would take half the business so the good fellas would stop causing trouble. Then once they sucked the business dry, they burned it down and collected the insurance money. Paulie was a master at extortion lol
Agreed. Regardless of whether or not Paulie instructed Tommy to wreck havoc in the bar and not pay the tab and whatever else, Paulie saw the opportunity to extort the owner - free of charge.
I thought I read somewhere that Tommy was told to give certain business owners a hard time so they would go to Paulie for help. Then Paulie would buy into the business and do what he did to the restaurant.
I think it was Henry who unintentionally dropped the dime on Tommy. Before the Sunday dinner, when they were outside, Paulie asks Henry what he knows about "that thing." Henry plays dumb, but then says "nobody knows what happened to him (Batts) He came into the bar that night and then he just disappeared." What he should have said was "last time I saw him was at his coming home party." To use the word "disappeared" implies knowledge that Batts was never seen by anyone else after being in Henry's bar, arguing with Tommy. That's when Paulie figured it out.
I think they just put two and two together tbh, it would have been obvious that it was probably Tommy and given his reputation as being out of control, they could have just easily justified taking him out unilaterally. I feel like that's the way it's presented to us in the movie.
Henry said he disappeared because that's all that was being said about Batts. That he disappeared. He's just repeating what everyone else can't come to the conclusion over.
@@ChinDulles Yeah, Ive heard rumors about that. I always thought it was corn he was talking about though, "20 fucking ears" or something. I dunno, maybe I heard wrong.
I love the scene where the restaurant owner comes to Paulie and complains about Tommy while Henry is sitting at the table. Rarely do we ever know what’s going on in the life of a henchman. Usually the main character is the boss. Henry, in this scene, is simply some nameless mob affiliate sitting with the boss. If you were there you’d just think he was some scumbag security guard or something. But we have seen how Henry has made it from running newspapers to now sitting at that table in the bar with Paulie. To the restaurant owner, Henry is a scary guy. He’s “one of those bag guys” that you wouldn’t want your kids around. But we as the audience know Henry intimately.
Yep. By some accounts Gotti was the triggerman and personally whacked Tommy. Tommy killed Foxy because Tommy was messing with Foxy's sister and Foxy confronted him about it. And the killing of Batts was something that had been long plotted rather than the spur of the moment thing over an insult like it's portrayed in the movie. The insult to Tommy was probably the cause of it happening that night but Tommy and Jimmy were going to take Batts out because Jimmy had taken over Batts' street rackets while he was in the pen and didn't want to give them up after Batts was released. That's why Jimmy insisted that drinks be on the house for Batts. They wanted him good and drunk when they made their move so he couldn't fight back effectively. It's hard to hear in the movie but when Tommy returns to the bar Batts is ranting to Jimmy about how he 'did his time' and 'has mouths to feed'. He's talking about his street rackets. He also says 'I want what's coming to me' meaning the money. And Jimmy replies 'Well, you're going to get it' right before Batts feels Tommy's presence behind him and they stomp him out.
When I saw the movie I noticed that everyone treated the Bats murder as an "open secret" since everyone saw small guy in a fit of rage and openly saying "dont let him go out" to his buddy before storming off. So everyone knew that the last time Bats was seen was in the bar and he never got back home or called anyone after. For a mobster thats good enough to know who did it, they dont need trials, witnesses and evidence.
@@coleycole420 For mobs thats as good as happening the same day. It also happened in the bar and they did a messier job on real life hiding the body, they had to relocate it at least once and posibly twice.
VERY GOOD EYE FOR DETAIL!!! Jimmy didn't want to give up the loansharking rackets he inherited while Billy was away and he wanted it back and Jimmy didn't want to give it back.so Jimmy coaxed Tommy into killing Billy. He should've talked Tommy OUT of it. Instead he encouraged it.
Well, Tommy was going to kill him anyway. The man had an uncontrollable temper. That just gave Jimmy a reason to encourage Tommy to go through with it and help him.
Irish or not i find it hard to comprehend why burke and hill were'nt both whacked as well. it could only mean that burke and hill maybe didnt have anything to do with batts murder. believe you me if burke and hill had been involved in whacking a made guy they would have gone as well big earner or not, THE RULES ARE THE RULES.
@@trinihammer Since it was Gotti and Agro that killed Tommy, I think it’s more likely they didn’t find out. I seriously doubt Gotti would have been satisfied with just killing Tommy. If he knew Hill and Burke had a connection to the death of Bats, he would have killed them. It’s possible that whoever tipped the Gambinos off about the death of Billy only knew Tommy was involved. He was the most likely suspect, since a ton of people witnessed their confrontation at the party. Perhaps once they confirmed Tommy did it they stopped investigating and didn’t dig deeper. Or perhaps the the Luccheses just wanted to be rid of Tommy. He was clearly a liability, a loose cannon far too quick to kill and cause a scene, and about as subtle as an elephant at a tea party. The mafia prefers to keep a low profile, do their crimes without attracting too much attention. That’s how you stay out of prison. The fact that he killed Billy would have been the perfect excuse to get rid of him, as the killing would have been justified under the rules of the mob. Plus, he technically was the min killer. Burke and Hill just helped him. They were accomplices, not the main killers. Perhaps the Luccheses just didn’t want to lose three associates at once, so they withheld some information from the Gambinos. The Gambinos were simply given the name of the one who planned and was the primary figure that killed Billy Bats. Killing him was Tommy’s idea. He plotting the death, he was the main attacker. Billy’s death lay primarily on his shoulders. There was also the fact that Burke had been running some of Billy’s rackets while Bats was in prison. Perhaps keeping Burke alive meant that the Luccheses didn’t have to give that business back to the Gambinos. As for Hill, he was still making money for the Vario Crew, and he knew how to keep his head down, though there is evidence they were planning to kill him for being a drug dealing junkie. They may not have planned that until later, however, as Hill’s addiction became worse and his value as an associate diminished. That just left Tommy, the man primarily responsible for the death of Billy, the loose cannon, the troublemaker who would kill people over the slightest provocation. His inability to control his temper and his recklessness meant he was unworthy of being made despite being of purely Italian descent, and he would clearly be a liability if he kept doing stupid things like killing Bats and Spider, as well as the other people he killed, which included a Gambino associate. He made a number of other mistakes as well. All this made him bad for business, and someone who would need to be dealt with at some point. Why not have the Gambinos take care of him? He killed both an associate and a Made Man of the Gambino family without being ordered to or even having the permission of the Luccheses, His violation of the rules was justification for his death, and the perfect excuse to get rid of a reckless man who could call too much attention to their criminal activity.
I think the main reason that Paulie wants Henry to get back together with Karen is that they can't have someone who knows about Henry's crimes and isn't deeply involved in the crimes, who also resents him. And for once, they all seem to agree that killing her is not even an option to discuss.
Lmao 3rd grade logic. Henry ratted on his crew for Karen and the kids. Who makes their kids an orphan over the possibility of someone testifying on stuff they have no real knowledge on. I don't even think legally wives can be called to testify against a husband
In real life tommy didn’t kill batts that same night I think it was about 2 weeks after that argument. If he had killed him the same night batts crew would have just killed tommy right away assuming that he had something to do with it
They still set him up to be killed at Jimmy’s club those two weeks later. I remember learning the true story, and it would have been an unbelievable movie due to how stupid and shady these guys really were 😂
yeah I read that in Henry's book Wiseguys, Batts wasn't killed that night, after he insulted Tommy and everyone at the lounge was laughing Tommy mumbled to Henry that he was going to kill that bastard (meaning Batts).
The way it went down in the movie wasn't exactly how it went down in real life. Pauly gave up Tommy because of the Gambino inquiries about theBatts murder but he also basically tried to rape Karen Hill while Henry was in jail and Paul Vario was having an affair with her and told him about it. He also killed this other guy...I think his nickname was Foxy and he was a friend of John Gotti's. So yeah as they say in the movie it was for a lot of things. I think they left out the Pauly/Karen affair in the movie to make Pauly more likeable and wise. But yeah the movie captures the essence of that character being out of control. He was never going to last.
@@williammatthews7252 the film is from Henry’s point of view. Can you think of a single scene without him in it or in proximity to where it happened or the scene turning out to be what someone is telling him? He didn’t know about the affair at the time the film takes place so it wouldn’t be in there
I’d say the film is from Henry’s prospective but a couple scenes that stick out in regards to him possibly not knowing the truth: Karen almost getting whacked by Jimmy at the end(speculative) and Jimmy first deciding to not kill Morrie, but then killing him anyway after
@@rikers263 the characters in Goodfellas..obviously based on the Nick Pileggi book..Wiseguy wasn’t entirely truthful. Ray Liotta in the film was likeable and a good earner. In real life Henry Hill (although was involved in heroin selling) wasn’t a great earner and was often drunk and under the influence of drugs..and wasn’t considered a great money maker. There’s questions as to whether he set up the big airport heist, as portrayed in the film. I think John Gotti’s crew took out Tommy, as Batts was part of their crew in queens.
@@its_rick_james_bich2575 it's bad business to go after people not associated with the family they work for. There's rumors John killed Tommy but it's more internal info and no one outside the mafia knows.
@@its_rick_james_bich2575 def agree about the Gotti x Bats. Sammy the Bull was big in my area, even young his name rang bells and going to my friends houses in Bk u often heard alot of stories hence when Goodfellas did come out it was very relatable
Great video, I'd like to add that, Tommy wasn't necessarily escorted out after his initial run in with Billy Batts, he was screaming and telling Jimmy to hold him/keep him there. Batts & his crew must've really fealt invincible, considering how enraged Tommy got.
Great video. History Buffs does a great overview of the movie. Interesting enough, he suggests that Billy Bate's murder wasn't because of Tommy's anger (though that did happen, just that people kept tommy from attacking him) but that Jimmy took over some of Billy's businesses while he was away and now that Billy was out, he wanted them back. Jimmy didn't want to give them back, so it is suggested he was the one who organized the hit.
Paulie had an obligation as boss to know everything. He didn’t get there by being dumb. Remember, he didn’t have to move for anyone. He told Gambino out of respect. Why start a war over a wild cowboy? Now I have to turn my back on you.
I too, thought Paulie was boss when first seeing Goodfellas, but he was a captain and the 3 mains were mere associates; not even members of The Lucheses. Had to research that through the years for more detail since the movie was vague and I think the movie kinda assumes anyone watching would be more versed possibly, lol. But hey, I was just 14 when Goodfellas came out.
@@qualityserviceexperts9996 he was the boss (capo) of a crew, is my pov. He has to maintain a firm order. He knew about the drugs with Henry, he knew everything. The sausage is in the pan.
@@Nick.random Correct! But Capos cant give permission to do hits to other families. He wouldve sat down with Tony Ducks (Paulie's boss) and Paul Castellano (Billy Batts' boss) to make it happen.
This is one of the most noticeable things in the film for me: Paulie will never deal directly with Tommy but goes through Jimmy and Henry. Tommy is always out on a limb.
I love that part! I’ve said it randomly for years, it really is my favorite part. I’ve later reflected and wondered if it’s where I got my ideas about women like her. 2R-Rossi
You left out a very important real life detail Tommy killed Batts a couple of weeks after the bar incident and that only happened after Batts tried to move in on one of Jimmys forms of income. The reality is nobody wanted Batts dead more than Jimmy and Paulie would have known this and immediately asked Jimmy who showed he was willing to kill even the people closet to him and ultimately Paulie would have never went toe to toe with Gotti who Batts worked under. Batts being killed in the bar was a way of shortening the story and it allowed them to do it in a way where the killing of Tommy which was also inaccurate could happen without spending an hour talking about it.
Grazie Consigliere. Watched this movie several times and is an all time favourite; now when I watch it again the story will be enriched by your excellent vid. Diolch yn fawr from Wales.
Tommy and Paulie played Sonny. Tommy assaulted him on purpose so he would go to Paulie and give up part of the restaurant to him. The whole thing was a setup.
That is the whole point of that scene, so whatever Pauline says about Tommy is a part of the con to get control of the restaurant. Now, Tommy’s assault of Sonny may or may not have been “all part of the plan”, but it was taken as an opportunity. What Pauline says to Henry should hold more weight bc Henry is a part of the crew and Pauline would be more forthcoming with his personal thoughts/feelings
That's what I always thought. In the restaurant after Tommy assaults Sonny and the kid that was afraid to bring the check Tommy turns to Henry and says 'you're supposed to being doing this too'. And in the book 'Wiseguy' Henry pretty much describes it as a setup for a shakedown. That's why Sonny asked Paulie to be his 'partner' because once that happened he knew Tommy would no longer behave in such a manner in an establishment that Paulie had a piece of. And then they later ran up the business's credit and burned it down to collect insurance money. Sonny probably didn't get a dime of the insurance.
@@westyraviz did you not watch the movie? Tommy caused trouble and Henry was the one who talked sonny into talking to Paulie about making him a partner. Henry even says "tell him what we talked about" right before sonny asked Paulie to be a partner. Than they proceed to bend sonny over and rack up the credit cards and insurance scam for 100% profit. Sonny was gonna file for bankruptcy so they baisically make a fuck ton of money with no strings attached. It was a common scam for mobs.
That's a practice called a "bust out". Harassing the owner and patrons, owner runs to mob guy asking for protection, mob guy gives "protection", but essentially drives the establishment into debt, eating the owner alive financially.
Not a bad video. I personally knew the real Henry Hill, I interviewed him several times and we became friends. Tommy was not only killed for the Billy Batts incident, but also for messing around with a made man's wife, according to Henry. If I remember correctly, Henry said he was messing around with one of the wives from the Gambino family. Pauly was having an affair with Karen, but Henry wasn't a made man and there was not much he could do about it until he turned on him and became an informant.
So that explains the lack of remorse Henry showed at least in the movie when naming Pauly in court. What about Jimmy though? Is there an underlying beef Henry had with Jimmy that we weren’t shown in the movie? To me it’s weird that Henry showed no remorse when naming Jimmy in court especially how high he once regarded Jimmy.
@@OrgyEntertainment Jimmy was planning on killing Henry. Henry knew it was either kill or be killed. Jimmy died in 1996 from cancer in a prison hospital.
@@OrgyEntertainment Also anyone that was seen being risky by blowing through money or being flashy after the heist would've put them in jimmy 's crosshairs..Henry fit the bill!!
@@minorsnow5306 Henry was buying everything in sight. Cars, Clothes, Giving up cash for shopping sprees for his wife and mistress. He was loud as well as the rest of them. Jimmy was going to kill anybody that put him in jeopardy of being caught and arrested for the Lufthansa heist. In that game, your either a wolf or a sheep literally!!! (Training Day reference I know lol)
Tommy was the most likely reason Billy Batts went missing, Paulie ain't dumb. But while Tommy was useful, the lack of evidence allowed Paulie to not pick at that scab. Once Tommy became a liability (in multiple ways)...getting rid of him and putting out the word it was for Batts keeps everyone in line concerning made members.
Yep Tommy dug his own grave unfortunately and despite their history Paulie and the bosses couldn’t risk that recklessness coming back to them. Which is ironic since if that was the fear they should’ve whacked Henry.
@@kigrey3994 as soon as Henry was popped on a drug charge that carried life under NY's Rockefeller laws, they should have taken him out. He should have never walked out of Paulie's yard alive the day that they met and Paulie handed him that $3000. The only way he was getting out of a life sentence was by flipping.
There were witnesses in the bar. "Busting his balls" meant they were demanding action with the last people that witnesses saw him alive with, not that they didn't know anything. Combined with his reckless attitude and outright murdering people for no reason, it was inevitable. Paulie took his time making a decision to tell the higher ups.🤦♂️
I always figured there was enough evidence for Pauly to put two & two together. That coupled with Tommy’s irrational and impulsive behavior, made it a no brainer for Pauly to rat him out.
I always took Paulie saying he knew what to say to her was that he was adept in smoothing things over with his crew's relations so it wouldn't become a problem.
Billy Batts was, in reality, a pioneer of computer science and just didn't get the chance to deploy his own operating system before Microsoft and Apple beat him to the punch. Just look at that photo of the real Billy.
According to the book, another member of Burke/Hill's crew was present-Alex Corccione, who Hill quickly steered out with his girlfriend the moment it went down. I always wondered if he might have snitched?
Remember in the voiceover when Tommy just died, Henry states, "A few other things"... Yes, probably because of Billy Bats, its because he shot that kid at the card game, those kids were from the neighborhood and untouchable...that's what tipped the scale in the eyes of " The Rat".
Tommy was absolutely crazy. As ill-tempered as he was and a loose cannon with quick temper, I'm surprised the Mafia let him get away with as many things as he did. One old saying is "the loudest one in the room is the weakest one in the room". Possibly the leaders in the crime family he was with noticed how much of a danger he was to their operations and not to mention he did take out a made man which is a huge no no in the Mafia. In reality Tommy was a lot worse than what we see Goodfellas.
There is one scene where it seems like Tommy was basically bragging about killing the guy but maybe he was talking about something else. It was a conversation happening in the background of a scene. So I always thought it was tommy that got himself killed because of his big mouth and recklessness.
@@molink3123 I think it the scene where jimmy tells Henry not to worry about maury. it's in the background. I noticed it too, only after having already watched it dozens of times. Lol.
I don't think that was a hint when Paulie said, "I know how to talk to her. Especially her." I think he meant he knows Karen gets emotional easy & he used to dealing w/ women like her. The beauty salon is a great example of how nuts some of these mobs wives would get & now Karen is one of them.
Now knowing about the affair I can see how people might make that connection, but I agree, I think the affair was left out of the movie to make Karen look innocent and pure. When he says 'especially her' I read that as Karen as an innocent or more like normal lady as opposed to the other wives who knew exactly who they were married to.
@@happydude2163 The affair was not mentioned in the book "Wiseguy" either. It was mentioned in one of Henry's later books. The people who made the movie may not have known about it.
Well tommy also killed another made man in the gambino family, so he killed 2 made guys and Pauly had an affair with Karen and tommy tried making a move and sexually assaulted her, tommy was just a loose cannon so with all the circumstances pauly gave up tommy.
The chickens came home to roost. Paulie was the smooth talking caretaker, similar the relationship of Stringer Bell and D'Angelo, when it came to the in and out of jail/wife/girlfriend thing. Paulie knew Henry and Devito were onlookers for most of Tommy's bad deeds. It was only a matter of time.
The take I always had, from the movie, was two wise guys who brought in money consistently had got caught up in a squabble between italians, so only Tommy got blamed.
I don't think there was a snitch. The bosses just figured it out, Tommy was wild and killing everyone and they knew Billy Batts was in Henry's bar the last night he was was seen alive, and so was Tommy. They probably also knew Batts was the kind of guy who would have insulted Tommy to his face.
From the movie"s perspective it looked obvious Paulie gave the go ahead in whacking Tommy. As Henry said 'it was payback for Billy Bats and other things' Also, the trigger men in the movie were Paulie's crew. One was Vinnie, who called Jimmy to say 'he's gone and there's nothing we could do about it". From what I've read and heard from various documentaries, the real life Jimmy was an extremely violent man who even threatened lives of children, and he did not honor codes such as respecting wives, families, etc.
I’d heard the rumours before about Batts being a friend of Gotti, and if it’s true that Gotti was mad at Tommy for whacking out not only a made man but a personal friend without permission, it shows Gotti’s hypocrisy. He did it twice, once to his own family boss.
Part of Gotti's beef with Castellano was that Big Paul didn't attend Neil Dellacroce's funeral. Dellacroce was his underboss, and Gotti's mentor. Not attending the funeral was big time disrespectful. Castellano was under indictment in the Commission case and didn't want to make a public showing at the funeral. Another reason was that Gotti and his brother were dealing drugs, a capital offense in the Gambino family under both the old man and Big Paul, and they were afraid that he had found out.
Even when I first watched goodfellas I knew Tommy was the first one that was going to fall. A loose cannon wild man he was, and I also it was going to be at the hands of Paulie. Just from the way he questioned henry about it it was that easy for him to put two and two together and Tommy’s attitude had been tolerated enough. He didn’t have to kill spider but he did over an insult. Also the way tommy is killed was probably set up by Paulie, maybe trying to let him go with a little grace, the prospect of him becoming a made guy, then shoot him right in the head making it a quick painless death for the guy. What fascinates me even more is like Jimmy Hoffa the real Tommy’s body was never found.
The old man who was next to the one who shot Tommy was the one who was in prison cooking. Remember? "Don't put too much onion." Tommy's death was definitely authorized by Paulie.
Henry Hill claimed that one day, Tommy Desimone walked right up to a guy on the sidewalk and shot him dead, right in the head because he didn't like the tie he was wearing. Tommy Desimone was an ANIMAL, completely out of control.
What a nightmare it turned out for everybody who was in this movie. It is disgusting that you can get whacked even if they are your friends, or enemies. Don't trust anybody.
its an unwritten rule in the la cosa nostra TRUST NO ONE when the mob wants to set you up to get whacked they get the people most close to you to either set you up to be hit or to pull the trigger themselves.
Here's a theory Billy Batts crime family inquired about him. They knew where he went they also knew who all was there. The witness was discovered and the rest is history.These two weren't exactly quiet with their blow up and falling out. Is it at all possible there was a witness around who saw the whole thing? Is it possible that Paulie came to Jimmy and said Billy's bosses want to know where he is and what happened to him. Now Tommy was Jimmy's boy he had to play it cool which he did. He could have said he had a few drinks we put him a car and sent him on his way. Paulie being as smart as he was probably thought uh huh right. In the back of his mind he knew these three had something to do with Billy's disappearance but knowing it would cause problems to say anything right away not to mention start a potential war between the families or Tommy. He said nothing and when the time came and for Tommy to get made. He made a call before hand and told the families and the families handled things the way they did. Only reason Jimmy and Henry were spared was because of Paulie. But I'm sure he had to do something even with them handling Tommy later down the line.
This falls apart when you consider the time between killing Bats and the trunk smelling like a corpse. If it was a day or two afterwards then that would make sense. I'd wager we they'd all assume Tommy was the prime suspect just based on how the movie projects it.
@@Rjensen2 the title of the video and his indication twards events in the movie suggest otherwise. Thats just flat out wrong and that he agreed with your post demonstrates he was caught with his pants down. If hes talking about real life theres plenty more research that could have been done to create a solid conclusion. Partially referencing real life in relation to the movie to back his movie claim is what he did, and its lazy and not well thought out. 🤷♂️
No one snitched on him. The crew "knew" what happened, from witnessing the interaction and then Billy Batts going missing. They knew right away it just took a few years for the machinations to work on approval
Tommy brought down himself in that movie when he started acting too reckless. The final straw was shooting at that poor kid who didn't ask for that but was caught up
This was spot on everything said in this even though it wasn't in the movie was accurate as far as the affair with Paul and Karen and the attempted rape of Karen from Tommy. Paulie was furious.
Wrong. In real life Batts would know that the real 6´2¨ Tommy DeSimone was a real and viable threat. Everyone knew that DeSimone had a close relative, (uncle I believe) that was a legit boss in LA and also had a brother or cousin that had turned rat. DeSimone had a lot to prove on multiple levels and was a stone-cold killer. Batt´s guard was down because Tommy had taken him by surprised weeks later after the ¨get you shinebox¨ incident. If it had truly happened the same night as the movie depicts Batt´s cronies that had been with him earlier that night wouldve put two and two together immediately and the Gambinos would've demanded his head right then and there.
You don't need a snitch for what happened in that bar, that night. If you pay close attention to the scene when Henry gets out and Paulie slaps him. He tells Henry what he thinks of Tommy and Jimmy. So when Billy turns up missing and Paulie knows all three of them were there that night. What happened was obvious.
I don't think anyone snitched on him so much as they just suspected him ALSO I don't think they killed him just for the Billy Batts hit either. Yes there is a certain level of violence in the Mafia, but Tommy was so psychopathically evil he was a liability. Also, from what I understand the movie version of him is more tame than how he was in real life. That dude was bloodthirsty.
I read Henry Hill's book. Billy Batts wasn't ONLY part of another crew, but he was also best friends with "JOHN GOTTI" himself. Billy Batts's body ended up being found in the 2nd location, and when Henry found out, he ended up Snitching because he was fearing for his life. But in the end, John Gotti ended up wanting to kill Henry because Henry was involved in helping out getting rid of the body, which was the real reason why Henry went into the Witness Protection. Jimmy Conway (Jimmy Burke) wanted to end up killing Henry for Snitching.
@@expendabull2331 Oh shit you are talking about Wiseguys? That book? Or some other book maybe that I don't know about. Either way, kind of fascinating and not sure why the movie didn't cover that other than maybe John Gotti was that powerful even at the time of the film being made perhaps? I am pretty sure he was active around the time. Either way interesting stuff, I dunno, what a crazy life to live.
@voteZDLR I am talking about that book. In the end, I kind of felt sorry for Henry's ex-wife Karen. The more Henry got into trouble after the Witness Protection, she started to Obese and ended up in a Motorized Carts.
@@expendabull2331 for real?? I know that he kept fucking up after he got into the program, there's a documentary that goes into at length, but I didn't know that. And yeah I have always felt bad for her. She was a kid when they got together, had no idea how dangerous the life he chose was.
On the last part, Tommy running up a large tab and then smashing a bottle over the owner's head was actually what Paulie wanted him to do. It was a scam to get the guy to bring in Paulie as a silent partner so they could bust out the place. You can see by Henry's and Paulie's expressions when the owner went to see them that it was all a scam to them.
The movie makes Paulie the boss of the lucchesse family. He wasn't in real life. He was a capo and consigliere. His real name was Paul vario. Tommy last name was Desomone
Henry did remember when Pauly smacked him and asked him about the dude & Henry said he came to the bar and nobody seen him after it's was they bar so he knew something
I don't think Pauly was the Snitch though? Pauly wanted to know who killed Bats as well because the other families wanted to get revenge. So he himself also didn't know. Someone had to tell Pauly that it was Tommy from within their family to confirm & green light Tommy's botton. & the other 2 people that knew for a fact were Henry & Jimmy???
Maybe Paulie didn't know or care if Tommy actually killed Billy. Tommy was a liability, anyway. If Paulie could pin it on Tommy and whack him, the matter is settled, Paulie looks like a stand up guy and the other crew stops breaking his balls.
@@rvhill69 he was getting rid of wild cards b/c of the heat, and he was able to use Tommy to get rid of Batts, then use that as a way to get rid of Tommy. Probably no reality, but not all hard to believe either.
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Tommy was NEVER going to make it. He was just too wild and brash. If I remember correctly, in the book, it’s mentioned that someone in Tommy’s family (affiliated with his uncle I believe) was a rat and that’s why he was so desperate to prove himself and be a big bad gangster. He had a terminal case of “Cowboy-itis” as Tony Soprano would say.
Nooo tommy was fear ful gangster....his fear of Paulie jimmy evident ..he masks it acting wild ..why he fears Jimmy & Paulie ..cause those 2 are super evil .... 24/7....Paulie top evil
His brother was a rat
Tommy desimone had an uncle and grandpa who were both boss of the Los Angeles mob
I read that book too . I believe it was his Brother who was either a Rat or a Gangster that got Killed
TOMMY AGRO KILLED TOMMY AND ONE OF TOMMYS BROTHERS
Can you believe Ray Liotta didn't win one single award for this movie? He carried the whole damn thing, he was incredible
Pesci and DeNiro, along with Liotta, carried the movie together. Every scene those actors were in, alone or together, was phenomenal. Their acting was so natural and weirdly warm in a messed up way that I wanted to be part of their world. It's a great movie alongside Casino and Godfather.
Yes I can absolutely believe it, but not because he wasn’t great in Goodfellas. You see, people are weak, ignorant-tipping-into-stupid, unoriginal, cruel, petty and, above all, jealous. Any award that is given away through a majority-vote is automatically, and forever, suspect anyway; don’t ever trust a human’s “opinion”. Ray is acting in god’s theater now. The audiences are much more appreciative.
Wish someone had had that talk with me when inwas a kid…sigh…
But that's not an academy award....the other actors are what made the movie, not him.
De Niro and Pesci weren’t iconic in their roles or what??
Ray was great but definitely didn't carry the whole movie on his own... the whole cast was full of really good actors....oh and a HOF director
In an interview, Henry Hill, when asked what he felt when he heard Tommy had been killed, said "Honestly, relieved." I believe there are at least two murders attributed to Tommy, of complete strangers, whom he killed simply because he wanted to try out a new gun he`d gotten.
Like when he shot Spider
Actually he committed six murders in total. He murdered a total stranger named Harold Goldstein on a whim, he aided Jimmy Burke in killing William "Billy Batts" Devino, shot Michael "Spider" Gianco (the young bartender), strangled Burke's friend Dominick Cersani for snitching, beat to death a warehouse foreman he and a friend were trying to intimidate, and shot to death Roland "Foxy" Jarothe (this killing is what probably got him murdered by the Gambino family, because Jarothe was also made, and John Gotti was his good friend.)
@@petergray7576 Was Goldstein the guy he shot from the car as Henry was driving? Just completely random...
@@monroetoolman Based upon him. Although irl Tommy and Henry were actually walking, not driving, when the former shot Goldstein.
According to Henry Hill, Hill told DeSimone after the shooting "That was cold blooded, Tommy!" To which DeSimone replied "Well, I am a mean cat."
@@petergray7576 He also killed Stacks and Morrie, at least in the movie. And he probably did kill Stacks in real life too.
The part where Karen witnessed the hosing of the car was way after the death of Batts. They dug up the body because they found out a construction project was about to happen where they buried him. The truth is that the Gambino family knew it was Tommy. The only reason they didn't kill Desimone right away was to avoid a feud. When Tommy let people see his face in the Lufthansa heist, he became a liability and Paul Vario gave Gotti the green light to take him out. It wasn't a shot to the head either. Gotti tortured DeSimone, according the Hill.
And his body has never been found. Also, didn't DeSimone (Tommy) sexually assault Paul Vario's wife while Paul was serving prison time with Henry and others (as depicted in the film)?
@@fiacomic I think it was karen who was assaulted by tommy
Jim Campbell, wrong , heard the truth from guys who ran with those guys, had nothing to do with Batts.
@@TheLousalvador Well then, I guess your hearsay trumps what guys who were named in the movie said--Henry Hill and Michael Franzese.
@@fiacomic It wouldn't surprise me if Tommy's body was somewhere in 'The Hole' in Brooklyn,
(Gotti's body dumping ground) although his body could have been disintegrated with a lime burial.
It is necessary to read Pileggi's book "Wiseguy: Life in a Mafia Family" to understand the unspoken and unseen facets of "the life" omitted from the movie. It is also helpful to remember that the movie is told from H. Hill's POV. He never commits a murder and he is always trying to be a peacemaker. For the movie it had to be that way. The real Henry Hill was NOT the dashing Ray Liotta.
All the little lines too.. like just before they killed Murray he was talking about point shaving in college basketball- Boston college . And the DA prosecutor for Henry was an alumnus of - Boston college. Also at Henry and Karen’s wedding there is some similar discussion. Interesting note - one of the people in the restaurant roll call scene is an old wealthy man living in Las Vegas.
I noticed that too. Henry never committed any serious crimes...at least not in his eyes. He was just a guy looking to be a somebody in a world of schnooks.
That's obvious pretty quickly to anybody who's ever watched an interview of the real Henry Hill. Somebody also said the movie portrayal of the real Paul Vario was also way off.
@@BrandonLeech I think it's safe to say that the movie made ALL of the characters more sympathetic for two reasons, for one thing it is told from Henry's perspective and Henry did, in fact, genuinely like them. But the truth is, if they showed them for who they REALLY were, nobody watching the movie would like any of them. You have to on some level like the characters, particularly the main characters, or else the movie will flop. But yeah Vario was pretty heinous. He even had an affair with Hill's wife when he was in prison (allegedly).
@@voteZDLR Joe Pesci's portrayal of whoever that real life guy was, was actually pretty accurate from what I've heard. A vicious, unstable and cold bloodedly violent guy with a temper problem. The kind of guy you WOULD make a movie about and who WOULD end up getting wacked in real life.
Paulie was with Henry’s wife. Jimmy was with Henry’s mistress. No loyalty or honour.
They're all disgusting pieces of human garbage who we need to stop glamourizing. Scorsese goes out his way to cover up their disgusting behavior because he's a monster apologist. They're all garbage
@@christianmendozatapia295 he shows how the mob really is. He’s not glorifying them, quiet the opposite actually.
@@australian2 he made sure NEVER to mention none of the characters smashing Karen because he knew audiences would hate them for it. They're disgusting pieces of human garbage and they all got what they deserved in the end. And Scorsese is an Italian gangster apologist
@@australian2 lmao, did you even watch Goodfellas? If you have any clue about the real story and what actually happened, how in the world could you say he didn't glamorize it?
No respect, either...
Tommy was uncontrollable. It's amazing he wasn't whacked a lot sooner. It's inconceivable that he would ever have been made.
At the time, he was with jimmy, and was protected.
Agreed! What good is a guard dog that hurts what it's supposed TO guard?!
Tommy probably thought he was untouchable but in that game no one is untouchable
he was a legacy…his grandpa and uncle were the heads of the LA family so they had to accept him into their ranks
And he wasn’t.
Using the whole “in real life” thing here is pointless because none of these plot points existed in the movie, such as the affair with Pauly. It was an Occam’s razor thing, plain and simple. They figured out he killed Batts because he was a hothead and literally threatened his life the same night the guy went missing.
Hello Gman
@@Gggmanlives what are you doing here ?? 🤣🤣
Occam’s razor? Why don't you buy something?
??? But.... the film is based off of real life? Tommy really got wacked? 🥴
Did your mom have any kids that lived? 🤔
The question always was not “if” Tommy was going to get whacked, but “when”. Also, another reason for killing Bill Batts was that while Billy was in prison Jimmy Burke took over Billy’s business and did not want to give it back.
This is a ridiculous question. There was a guy from Billy Bat's crew there that night and saw the beef he had with Tommy. He even heard when Tommy said "keep him here".... When you see that and then Billy immediately goes missing its beyond obvious.
I thought the same thing tbh
Yeah, and when Paulie asks Henry about Batts and Henry tries to play dumb. Paulie obviously didn't believe him and knew they had something to do with it. No snitch was needed either to off Tommy.
@@reviewheroes2376😅 of course. Most of this videos are full of shit. He assumes so much things for no reason
What you saw was a movie.
@@thehusketeers4319 No shit, the video is about a movie.
Tommy was a major liability for that crew, he would’ve got them all killed. Easy decision for Paulie.
Yep tell the Gambino's to kill him
How do you know?
I know what happened to Tommy. It was an accident. I didn’t mean it 😳
Paulie gave his blessing when the Gambino family told him, they wanted to whack Tommy....
Paulie also said, I will take care of the dirty laundry in my crew.
I know in reality Paulie was having an affair with Henry's wife but I don't believe there's enough evidence to say the same thing was happening in the movie. I feel like it was changed to make Paulie more likable in the film. The line about him knowing what to say to her, to me, comes off as Paulie saying he always knows just what to say to women because he's a charmer.
But paulie said "Her especially".
From what I had read the Paulie from Goodfellas was nothing like the Paulie in real life. The real Paulie was a disgusting pig and a complete slob of a human being. Sounds like the real Paulie moved up in spite of himself. Apparently he raped Karen as well. The real Jimmy the Gent was quite a nasty POS too.....
That's not true.
I refuse to believe that.
You are a liar and that can be even seen in your face.
KAREN was a KAREN and Paulie (who may be having an affair with her) knew how as a boss not equal he could tell her he was gonna lay down the law
I think you are exactly right. When he says “especially her”, he just means he knows her well enough to know how to reassure her. I do not believe the writers intended to imply that he was having an affair with her.
I think it was Pete the killer, just so he could walk into a bar and randomly say I took care that thing for ya
😆
Anthony
I think it was the aggregate total of transgressions by Tommy that got him whacked. He was wild and unpredictable. I don't think anyone necessarily ratted on him. I think they sort of put 2 & 2 together and decided it was time for Tommy to go. He was bad for business. Simple as that.
I knew Tommy Desimone from the 1970's. I wasn't his friend, but we shared drinks and laughs together at a bar. He was a fun guy and would have you laughing all night. The movie didn't show how drug addicted he was. I knew he was a street guy but underestimated his body count. Glad I didn't piss him off.
Tell more about tommy please
Yes, please tell us more or make a video, it's really fascinating !
If you Kew him he was an asshole drug addict bully period
Was he funny to you, did he amuse you, like a Clown? How the F*** was he funny?
What drugs did he do
This was apparently what occurred in real life. GoodFellas doesn't really want to focus on it I can imagine because of time and portraying Karen as a victim being cheated on. To show that she cheated as well would merely highlight her hypocrisy and make Henry's affair less poignant in the story.
Also wanted to make Henry not seem as much of a sell out. He knew about the affair in the real world and he used it to pressure Paulie into favourable acts
Thats ok! Why does the man always have to look like shit while the ho gets a pass? Whats up with that?
she had to feed her kids. the mob was not taking care of her when Henry went down.
@@rondaallen7211 oh they were all taking care of Karen.
@@marklupo3441 yup. she was passed around bigly. that's why Tommy thought he could just jump her.
Tommy was entirely expendable. His only use was muscle, plus remember there were other Bats associates at the club that witnessed Tommy fly off the handle before he left. Wouldn't have taken Paulie too much to put two and two together after having a sit down with Bats' family. Like I said, Tommy could be cut loose. Henry and Jimmy, although not made members, were big earners for Paulie so were not as easily spared.
those witnesses would tell their bosses about this squabble as soon as possible. in real life Tommy DeVito killed Batts only after two weeks they had argument so no one could witness it. in the movie he killed Batts the same night.
Spoderman
Dude was a made guy with the Gambino family an a member of John Gotti's crew
@@skimaskthefinesselord Batts was a childhood friend of Gotti's he wouldnt have cared if Batt's crew were only speculating about who they thought was the killer. Its even rumored Gotti dropped the hammer personally.
Tommy was muscle? Tommy was 5 foot.
He was only brave with a gun or knife. Couldn't fight to save his life.
Paulie doesn't help the bar owner out , he was the one telling Tommy to rack up a tab and cause trouble. That way the bar owner would ask for his help and they could baisically sabotage the business and make easy money like they did in the movie. Tommy even tells Henry in the bar "you know you're supposed to be doing this stuff to you know" after smashing the bottle on the owners head throwing shit at the waiter. This whole take has a few flaws.
Yup. The goal was to cause trouble, then when the owner asked for Paulies help, Paulie would take half the business so the good fellas would stop causing trouble. Then once they sucked the business dry, they burned it down and collected the insurance money. Paulie was a master at extortion lol
The guy rambled for 8 minutes without saying anything
Agreed. Regardless of whether or not Paulie instructed Tommy to wreck havoc in the bar and not pay the tab and whatever else, Paulie saw the opportunity to extort the owner - free of charge.
Which would be absolutely ridiculous in real life.
Wow 😮
Kind of sad watching the movie nowadays...both Paul Sorvino and Ray Liotta are gone
I thought I read somewhere that Tommy was told to give certain business owners a hard time so they would go to Paulie for help. Then Paulie would buy into the business and do what he did to the restaurant.
The mob has always had a terrible retirement plan
Good health insurance if your a made man though.
They paid them well.... in lead...
lol
there is no retirement plan the rule is YOU COME IN ALIVE AND YOU GO OUT DEAD. capiche.
I think it was Henry who unintentionally dropped the dime on Tommy. Before the Sunday dinner, when they were outside, Paulie asks Henry what he knows about "that thing." Henry plays dumb, but then says "nobody knows what happened to him (Batts) He came into the bar that night and then he just disappeared." What he should have said was "last time I saw him was at his coming home party." To use the word "disappeared" implies knowledge that Batts was never seen by anyone else after being in Henry's bar, arguing with Tommy. That's when Paulie figured it out.
Not to mention he clearly will rat to save his own ass
Pauli wouldn’t go to the Gambinos with a hunch.. Remember, another family was pressuring Paulie, and it wasn’t Pauline’s garbage to dispose of..
It ain't that deep. He was just playing by ear.
I think they just put two and two together tbh, it would have been obvious that it was probably Tommy and given his reputation as being out of control, they could have just easily justified taking him out unilaterally. I feel like that's the way it's presented to us in the movie.
Henry said he disappeared because that's all that was being said about Batts. That he disappeared. He's just repeating what everyone else can't come to the conclusion over.
Tommy didn't kill Billy Batts. Billy turned into a house named Phil Leotardo.
I could be wrong but somehow I got the idea that Phil Leotardo did 20 years. I think he might of said it once, not sure 😁
@@ChinDulles There's a rumor to that effect, however because he never directly references it, we'll never know.
@@ChinDulles I wish Phil would have told us how many years he did in the can , from my guess it can't be more than 19
@@ChinDulles
Yeah, Ive heard rumors about that. I always thought it was corn he was talking about though, "20 fucking ears" or something. I dunno, maybe I heard wrong.
@@MomMom4Cubs at least he didn't have to make any comprises🤣
I love the scene where the restaurant owner comes to Paulie and complains about Tommy while Henry is sitting at the table. Rarely do we ever know what’s going on in the life of a henchman. Usually the main character is the boss. Henry, in this scene, is simply some nameless mob affiliate sitting with the boss. If you were there you’d just think he was some scumbag security guard or something. But we have seen how Henry has made it from running newspapers to now sitting at that table in the bar with Paulie. To the restaurant owner, Henry is a scary guy. He’s “one of those bag guys” that you wouldn’t want your kids around. But we as the audience know Henry intimately.
The real Tommy DeVito (DeSimone) also brutally beaten Karen when she refused Tommy’s advances towards her when Henry was in jail.
In real life he was a real piece of work and was also married and beat his wife and some of his girlfriends.
Yep. By some accounts Gotti was the triggerman and personally whacked Tommy. Tommy killed Foxy because Tommy was messing with Foxy's sister and Foxy confronted him about it. And the killing of Batts was something that had been long plotted rather than the spur of the moment thing over an insult like it's portrayed in the movie. The insult to Tommy was probably the cause of it happening that night but Tommy and Jimmy were going to take Batts out because Jimmy had taken over Batts' street rackets while he was in the pen and didn't want to give them up after Batts was released. That's why Jimmy insisted that drinks be on the house for Batts. They wanted him good and drunk when they made their move so he couldn't fight back effectively. It's hard to hear in the movie but when Tommy returns to the bar Batts is ranting to Jimmy about how he 'did his time' and 'has mouths to feed'. He's talking about his street rackets. He also says 'I want what's coming to me' meaning the money. And Jimmy replies 'Well, you're going to get it' right before Batts feels Tommy's presence behind him and they stomp him out.
Ranting to Jimmy but yeah, your comment is on point.
vario knew they killed batts. When Paul vario was screwing karen, I guess tommy tried to rape her. Vario gave up tommy.
@@maratonlegendelenemirei3352
Yep. You're right. I meant ranting to Jimmy. Edited and fixed.
Yh I was just about to say it was Gotti that killed him am sure there's a podcast on RUclips sum were were an ex mafia guy tells the story
DeSimome was killed by Tommy Agro, a soldier in the Gambino family. He killed his brother too
When I saw the movie I noticed that everyone treated the Bats murder as an "open secret" since everyone saw small guy in a fit of rage and openly saying "dont let him go out" to his buddy before storming off.
So everyone knew that the last time Bats was seen was in the bar and he never got back home or called anyone after. For a mobster thats good enough to know who did it, they dont need trials, witnesses and evidence.
And when Tommy gets whacked, Henry says, "it was payback for Batts, and a lot of other things."
but tommy desimone was 6'2" and 200 lbs so he was small but heard he had a bad attitude.
But in real life that's not what happened Tommy killed Batts 2 weeks later after there fight in the bar
@@coleycole420 For mobs thats as good as happening the same day. It also happened in the bar and they did a messier job on real life hiding the body, they had to relocate it at least once and posibly twice.
@@metadeth578 6'2 isn't "small" that man tall as hell. Or doing you mean "small" as in a small time mobster ?
VERY GOOD EYE FOR DETAIL!!! Jimmy didn't want to give up the loansharking rackets he inherited while Billy was away and he wanted it back and Jimmy didn't want to give it back.so Jimmy coaxed Tommy into killing Billy. He should've talked Tommy OUT of it. Instead he encouraged it.
Well, Tommy was going to kill him anyway. The man had an uncontrollable temper. That just gave Jimmy a reason to encourage Tommy to go through with it and help him.
Irish or not i find it hard to comprehend why burke and hill were'nt both whacked as well. it could only mean that burke and hill maybe didnt have anything to do with batts murder. believe you me if burke and hill had been involved in whacking a made guy they would have gone as well big earner or not, THE RULES ARE THE RULES.
@@trinihammer Since it was Gotti and Agro that killed Tommy, I think it’s more likely they didn’t find out. I seriously doubt Gotti would have been satisfied with just killing Tommy. If he knew Hill and Burke had a connection to the death of Bats, he would have killed them. It’s possible that whoever tipped the Gambinos off about the death of Billy only knew Tommy was involved. He was the most likely suspect, since a ton of people witnessed their confrontation at the party. Perhaps once they confirmed Tommy did it they stopped investigating and didn’t dig deeper. Or perhaps the the Luccheses just wanted to be rid of Tommy. He was clearly a liability, a loose cannon far too quick to kill and cause a scene, and about as subtle as an elephant at a tea party. The mafia prefers to keep a low profile, do their crimes without attracting too much attention. That’s how you stay out of prison. The fact that he killed Billy would have been the perfect excuse to get rid of him, as the killing would have been justified under the rules of the mob. Plus, he technically was the min killer. Burke and Hill just helped him. They were accomplices, not the main killers. Perhaps the Luccheses just didn’t want to lose three associates at once, so they withheld some information from the Gambinos. The Gambinos were simply given the name of the one who planned and was the primary figure that killed Billy Bats. Killing him was Tommy’s idea. He plotting the death, he was the main attacker. Billy’s death lay primarily on his shoulders. There was also the fact that Burke had been running some of Billy’s rackets while Bats was in prison. Perhaps keeping Burke alive meant that the Luccheses didn’t have to give that business back to the Gambinos. As for Hill, he was still making money for the Vario Crew, and he knew how to keep his head down, though there is evidence they were planning to kill him for being a drug dealing junkie. They may not have planned that until later, however, as Hill’s addiction became worse and his value as an associate diminished. That just left Tommy, the man primarily responsible for the death of Billy, the loose cannon, the troublemaker who would kill people over the slightest provocation. His inability to control his temper and his recklessness meant he was unworthy of being made despite being of purely Italian descent, and he would clearly be a liability if he kept doing stupid things like killing Bats and Spider, as well as the other people he killed, which included a Gambino associate. He made a number of other mistakes as well. All this made him bad for business, and someone who would need to be dealt with at some point. Why not have the Gambinos take care of him? He killed both an associate and a Made Man of the Gambino family without being ordered to or even having the permission of the Luccheses, His violation of the rules was justification for his death, and the perfect excuse to get rid of a reckless man who could call too much attention to their criminal activity.
I think the main reason that Paulie wants Henry to get back together with Karen is that they can't have someone who knows about Henry's crimes and isn't deeply involved in the crimes, who also resents him.
And for once, they all seem to agree that killing her is not even an option to discuss.
Jimmy was going to have her killed when he sent her down the street for the dresses.
Lmao 3rd grade logic. Henry ratted on his crew for Karen and the kids. Who makes their kids an orphan over the possibility of someone testifying on stuff they have no real knowledge on. I don't even think legally wives can be called to testify against a husband
When Henry runs and locks the restaurant door and says, “This is bad, a whole bunch of people are going to be looking for him…”. Chills.
In real life tommy didn’t kill batts that same night I think it was about 2 weeks after that argument. If he had killed him the same night batts crew would have just killed tommy right away assuming that he had something to do with it
They still set him up to be killed at Jimmy’s club those two weeks later. I remember learning the true story, and it would have been an unbelievable movie due to how stupid and shady these guys really were 😂
I was about to say the same thing. It was two weeks later.
yeah I read that in Henry's book Wiseguys, Batts wasn't killed that night, after he insulted Tommy and everyone at the lounge was laughing Tommy mumbled to Henry that he was going to kill that bastard (meaning Batts).
The way it went down in the movie wasn't exactly how it went down in real life. Pauly gave up Tommy because of the Gambino inquiries about theBatts murder but he also basically tried to rape Karen Hill while Henry was in jail and Paul Vario was having an affair with her and told him about it. He also killed this other guy...I think his nickname was Foxy and he was a friend of John Gotti's.
So yeah as they say in the movie it was for a lot of things. I think they left out the Pauly/Karen affair in the movie to make Pauly more likeable and wise.
But yeah the movie captures the essence of that character being out of control. He was never going to last.
They didn’t show it because the film is from Henry’s point of view and he wasn’t aware of the affair at the time
@dspsblyuth they didn't show it because they just got divorced and there kids would have found out they were grown at the time.
@@williammatthews7252 the film is from Henry’s point of view. Can you think of a single scene without him in it or in proximity to where it happened or the scene turning out to be what someone is telling him?
He didn’t know about the affair at the time the film takes place so it wouldn’t be in there
I’d say the film is from Henry’s prospective but a couple scenes that stick out in regards to him possibly not knowing the truth: Karen almost getting whacked by Jimmy at the end(speculative) and Jimmy first deciding to not kill Morrie, but then killing him anyway after
This web of relationships is super sloppy holy shit, the good ole days aye?
Holy Crap, i never realized Pauly kissed Karen on the lips when she was holding the kids.
In real life, the Paulie had an affair with Karen. And Tommy in real life tried to force himself on Karen whilst Henry was locked up.
@@its_rick_james_bich2575 wow... history often mirrors itself. I seen this movie upwards 30x how did I miss that? Haha
@@rikers263 the characters in Goodfellas..obviously based on the Nick Pileggi book..Wiseguy wasn’t entirely truthful. Ray Liotta in the film was likeable and a good earner. In real life Henry Hill (although was involved in heroin selling) wasn’t a great earner and was often drunk and under the influence of drugs..and wasn’t considered a great money maker. There’s questions as to whether he set up the big airport heist, as portrayed in the film.
I think John Gotti’s crew took out Tommy, as Batts was part of their crew in queens.
@@its_rick_james_bich2575 it's bad business to go after people not associated with the family they work for. There's rumors John killed Tommy but it's more internal info and no one outside the mafia knows.
@@its_rick_james_bich2575 def agree about the Gotti x Bats. Sammy the Bull was big in my area, even young his name rang bells and going to my friends houses in Bk u often heard alot of stories hence when Goodfellas did come out it was very relatable
Great video, I'd like to add that, Tommy wasn't necessarily escorted out after his initial run in with Billy Batts, he was screaming and telling Jimmy to hold him/keep him there. Batts & his crew must've really fealt invincible, considering how enraged Tommy got.
Yea cuz batts was suppose to be untouchable but Tommy didn’t care
8 minutes of speculation and conjecture.
Its a movie...
According to Sammy the Bull
The Tommy character was not shot in the head in a basement
He was tortured to death by John Gotti for killing Billy Batts
they cut up Tommy's body and dumped the remains in the ocean
Oh shit 😮
Met his match then
Probably for the best.
Great video. History Buffs does a great overview of the movie. Interesting enough, he suggests that Billy Bate's murder wasn't because of Tommy's anger (though that did happen, just that people kept tommy from attacking him) but that Jimmy took over some of Billy's businesses while he was away and now that Billy was out, he wanted them back. Jimmy didn't want to give them back, so it is suggested he was the one who organized the hit.
Paulie had an obligation as boss to know everything. He didn’t get there by being dumb. Remember, he didn’t have to move for anyone. He told Gambino out of respect. Why start a war over a wild cowboy?
Now I have to turn my back on you.
I too, thought Paulie was boss when first seeing Goodfellas, but he was a captain and the 3 mains were mere associates; not even members of The Lucheses. Had to research that through the years for more detail since the movie was vague and I think the movie kinda assumes anyone watching would be more versed possibly, lol. But hey, I was just 14 when Goodfellas came out.
@@qualityserviceexperts9996 he was the boss (capo) of a crew, is my pov. He has to maintain a firm order. He knew about the drugs with Henry, he knew everything. The sausage is in the pan.
@@Nick.random Correct! But Capos cant give permission to do hits to other families. He wouldve sat down with Tony Ducks (Paulie's boss) and Paul Castellano (Billy Batts' boss) to make it happen.
By the way, I love your way of making "the writing is on the wall" so personally relevant with "the sausage is in the pan". That was fucking clever😆
Paulie was a capo, not the boss.
It was “Carbone” because Nikki yelled at him to start the car and drive before warming the engine .
No mobster is really untouchable because anyone can break omerta at anytime
If anyone notices Tommy never talks to Paulie in the movie as an adult?
Okay, now i need to rewatch the movie
Supposedly Paul Vario did not like Tommy very much. Tommy knew this and kept his distance. This might have been what Scorsese was trying to convey.
This is one of the most noticeable things in the film for me: Paulie will never deal directly with Tommy but goes through Jimmy and Henry. Tommy is always out on a limb.
Yup...he thought from the beginning he was flashy and reckless..not someone he would ever promote.
@@minorsnow5306 So why did he try to years later? 🤣
Best line in a film full of great lines:
“I’m gonna tell yaw-uh landlawd that in 2-R, ROSSI, you are a WHOO-UHH!!!”
😂😂😂
Best line is "I'm a good shot, what do you want from me"
I love that part! I’ve said it randomly for years, it really is my favorite part. I’ve later reflected and wondered if it’s where I got my ideas about women like her. 2R-Rossi
You left out a very important real life detail Tommy killed Batts a couple of weeks after the bar incident and that only happened after Batts tried to move in on one of Jimmys forms of income. The reality is nobody wanted Batts dead more than Jimmy and Paulie would have known this and immediately asked Jimmy who showed he was willing to kill even the people closet to him and ultimately Paulie would have never went toe to toe with Gotti who Batts worked under. Batts being killed in the bar was a way of shortening the story and it allowed them to do it in a way where the killing of Tommy which was also inaccurate could happen without spending an hour talking about it.
Grazie Consigliere. Watched this movie several times and is an all time favourite; now when I watch it again the story will be enriched by your excellent vid. Diolch yn fawr from Wales.
Tommy and Paulie played Sonny. Tommy assaulted him on purpose so he would go to Paulie and give up part of the restaurant to him. The whole thing was a setup.
Very unlikely.
That is the whole point of that scene, so whatever Pauline says about Tommy is a part of the con to get control of the restaurant. Now, Tommy’s assault of Sonny may or may not have been “all part of the plan”, but it was taken as an opportunity. What Pauline says to Henry should hold more weight bc Henry is a part of the crew and Pauline would be more forthcoming with his personal thoughts/feelings
That's what I always thought. In the restaurant after Tommy assaults Sonny and the kid that was afraid to bring the check Tommy turns to Henry and says 'you're supposed to being doing this too'. And in the book 'Wiseguy' Henry pretty much describes it as a setup for a shakedown. That's why Sonny asked Paulie to be his 'partner' because once that happened he knew Tommy would no longer behave in such a manner in an establishment that Paulie had a piece of. And then they later ran up the business's credit and burned it down to collect insurance money. Sonny probably didn't get a dime of the insurance.
@@westyraviz did you not watch the movie? Tommy caused trouble and Henry was the one who talked sonny into talking to Paulie about making him a partner. Henry even says "tell him what we talked about" right before sonny asked Paulie to be a partner. Than they proceed to bend sonny over and rack up the credit cards and insurance scam for 100% profit. Sonny was gonna file for bankruptcy so they baisically make a fuck ton of money with no strings attached. It was a common scam for mobs.
That's a practice called a "bust out". Harassing the owner and patrons, owner runs to mob guy asking for protection, mob guy gives "protection", but essentially drives the establishment into debt, eating the owner alive financially.
Not a bad video. I personally knew the real Henry Hill, I interviewed him several times and we became friends. Tommy was not only killed for the Billy Batts incident, but also for messing around with a made man's wife, according to Henry. If I remember correctly, Henry said he was messing around with one of the wives from the Gambino family. Pauly was having an affair with Karen, but Henry wasn't a made man and there was not much he could do about it until he turned on him and became an informant.
So that explains the lack of remorse Henry showed at least in the movie when naming Pauly in court. What about Jimmy though? Is there an underlying beef Henry had with Jimmy that we weren’t shown in the movie? To me it’s weird that Henry showed no remorse when naming Jimmy in court especially how high he once regarded Jimmy.
@@OrgyEntertainment Jimmy was planning on killing Henry. Henry knew it was either kill or be killed. Jimmy died in 1996 from cancer in a prison hospital.
@@mwroberts That explains it and thank you for the reply
@@OrgyEntertainment Also anyone that was seen being risky by blowing through money or being flashy after the heist would've put them in jimmy 's crosshairs..Henry fit the bill!!
@@minorsnow5306 Henry was buying everything in sight. Cars, Clothes, Giving up cash for shopping sprees for his wife and mistress. He was loud as well as the rest of them. Jimmy was going to kill anybody that put him in jeopardy of being caught and arrested for the Lufthansa heist. In that game, your either a wolf or a sheep literally!!! (Training Day reference I know lol)
Tommy was the most likely reason Billy Batts went missing, Paulie ain't dumb. But while Tommy was useful, the lack of evidence allowed Paulie to not pick at that scab.
Once Tommy became a liability (in multiple ways)...getting rid of him and putting out the word it was for Batts keeps everyone in line concerning made members.
Yep Tommy dug his own grave unfortunately and despite their history Paulie and the bosses couldn’t risk that recklessness coming back to them. Which is ironic since if that was the fear they should’ve whacked Henry.
@@kigrey3994 as soon as Henry was popped on a drug charge that carried life under NY's Rockefeller laws, they should have taken him out. He should have never walked out of Paulie's yard alive the day that they met and Paulie handed him that $3000. The only way he was getting out of a life sentence was by flipping.
6:13 i like how Sir Robert kick Billy Bats. He's like tap dancing on the body.😂
There were witnesses in the bar. "Busting his balls" meant they were demanding action with the last people that witnesses saw him alive with, not that they didn't know anything. Combined with his reckless attitude and outright murdering people for no reason, it was inevitable. Paulie took his time making a decision to tell the higher ups.🤦♂️
This guy will come up anything to fit his own narrative. You can do this with most movies. Even scorsese hasn't thought about who switched on tommy
'Busting his balls" mean they were joking with him or making fun of him not demanding action.
I've reread that second sentence a dozen times now and still can't make sense of it.
I always figured there was enough evidence for Pauly to put two & two together. That coupled with Tommy’s irrational and impulsive behavior, made it a no brainer for Pauly to rat him out.
I always took Paulie saying he knew what to say to her was that he was adept in smoothing things over with his crew's relations so it wouldn't become a problem.
I let out the biggest “Oh f*ck” the instant John Gotti’s name was brought up, Tommy was a dead man from the word “go”
All this is in the book Wise Guys
Literally a bar FULL of people while Tommy gets escorted out very loudly saying “keep him here”….
Billy Batts was, in reality, a pioneer of computer science and just didn't get the chance to deploy his own operating system before Microsoft and Apple beat him to the punch. Just look at that photo of the real Billy.
According to the book, another member of Burke/Hill's crew was present-Alex Corccione, who Hill quickly steered out with his girlfriend the moment it went down. I always wondered if he might have snitched?
No, Paul Vario did. Vario was fucking Hill's wife while Henry was in prison and took offense when DiSimone raping her around the same time.
Remember in the voiceover when Tommy just died, Henry states, "A few other things"... Yes, probably because of Billy Bats, its because he shot that kid at the card game, those kids were from the neighborhood and untouchable...that's what tipped the scale in the eyes of " The Rat".
Tommy was absolutely crazy. As ill-tempered as he was and a loose cannon with quick temper, I'm surprised the Mafia let him get away with as many things as he did. One old saying is "the loudest one in the room is the weakest one in the room". Possibly the leaders in the crime family he was with noticed how much of a danger he was to their operations and not to mention he did take out a made man which is a huge no no in the Mafia. In reality Tommy was a lot worse than what we see Goodfellas.
The picture of Billy bats used is really Pat the Cat from Philly
There is one scene where it seems like Tommy was basically bragging about killing the guy but maybe he was talking about something else. It was a conversation happening in the background of a scene. So I always thought it was tommy that got himself killed because of his big mouth and recklessness.
What scene was it
@@molink3123 I think it the scene where jimmy tells Henry not to worry about maury. it's in the background. I noticed it too, only after having already watched it dozens of times. Lol.
I don't think that was a hint when Paulie said, "I know how to talk to her. Especially her." I think he meant he knows Karen gets emotional easy & he used to dealing w/ women like her. The beauty salon is a great example of how nuts some of these mobs wives would get & now Karen is one of them.
Now knowing about the affair I can see how people might make that connection, but I agree, I think the affair was left out of the movie to make Karen look innocent and pure. When he says 'especially her' I read that as Karen as an innocent or more like normal lady as opposed to the other wives who knew exactly who they were married to.
@@happydude2163 The affair was not mentioned in the book "Wiseguy" either. It was mentioned in one of Henry's later books. The people who made the movie may not have known about it.
Paulie was treading on thin ice with his affair with Karen, the bosses were old time, they don't tolerate infidelity the penalty for that is death.
they usually cheated on their wives alot and had goombahs
Well tommy also killed another made man in the gambino family, so he killed 2 made guys and Pauly had an affair with Karen and tommy tried making a move and sexually assaulted her, tommy was just a loose cannon so with all the circumstances pauly gave up tommy.
The chickens came home to roost. Paulie was the smooth talking caretaker, similar the relationship of Stringer Bell and D'Angelo, when it came to the in and out of jail/wife/girlfriend thing. Paulie knew Henry and Devito were onlookers for most of Tommy's bad deeds. It was only a matter of time.
The take I always had, from the movie, was two wise guys who brought in money consistently had got caught up in a squabble between italians, so only Tommy got blamed.
I don't think there was a snitch. The bosses just figured it out, Tommy was wild and killing everyone and they knew Billy Batts was in Henry's bar the last night he was was seen alive, and so was Tommy. They probably also knew Batts was the kind of guy who would have insulted Tommy to his face.
Tommy was not a made man when he was killed. There are several inaccuracies in this video.
From the movie"s perspective it looked obvious Paulie gave the go ahead in whacking Tommy. As Henry said 'it was payback for Billy Bats and other things' Also, the trigger men in the movie were Paulie's crew. One was Vinnie, who called Jimmy to say 'he's gone and there's nothing we could do about it".
From what I've read and heard from various documentaries, the real life Jimmy was an extremely violent man who even threatened lives of children, and he did not honor codes such as respecting wives, families, etc.
I’d heard the rumours before about Batts being a friend of Gotti, and if it’s true that Gotti was mad at Tommy for whacking out not only a made man but a personal friend without permission, it shows Gotti’s hypocrisy. He did it twice, once to his own family boss.
I've got the sense, over the years, that hypocrisy is a defining characteristic of the mob.
Part of Gotti's beef with Castellano was that Big Paul didn't attend Neil Dellacroce's funeral. Dellacroce was his underboss, and Gotti's mentor. Not attending the funeral was big time disrespectful. Castellano was under indictment in the Commission case and didn't want to make a public showing at the funeral. Another reason was that Gotti and his brother were dealing drugs, a capital offense in the Gambino family under both the old man and Big Paul, and they were afraid that he had found out.
Even when I first watched goodfellas I knew Tommy was the first one that was going to fall. A loose cannon wild man he was, and I also it was going to be at the hands of Paulie. Just from the way he questioned henry about it it was that easy for him to put two and two together and Tommy’s attitude had been tolerated enough. He didn’t have to kill spider but he did over an insult. Also the way tommy is killed was probably set up by Paulie, maybe trying to let him go with a little grace, the prospect of him becoming a made guy, then shoot him right in the head making it a quick painless death for the guy. What fascinates me even more is like Jimmy Hoffa the real Tommy’s body was never found.
The old man who was next to the one who shot Tommy was the one who was in prison cooking. Remember? "Don't put too much onion." Tommy's death was definitely authorized by Paulie.
Henry Hill claimed that one day, Tommy Desimone walked right up to a guy on the sidewalk and shot him dead, right in the head because he didn't like the tie he was wearing. Tommy Desimone was an ANIMAL, completely out of control.
Tommy was also scared of Paulie as well.
Well in the Book it was Paulie who gave him up
What a nightmare it turned out for everybody who was in this movie. It is disgusting that you can get whacked even if they are your friends, or enemies. Don't trust anybody.
Michael Corleone said in the second movie if I'm not mistaken "These are businessmen and their loyalty is based on that"
its an unwritten rule in the la cosa nostra TRUST NO ONE when the mob wants to set you up to get whacked they get the people most close to you to either set you up to be hit or to pull the trigger themselves.
well, they're trash people who will go to hell
Here's a theory Billy Batts crime family inquired about him. They knew where he went they also knew who all was there. The witness was discovered and the rest is history.These two weren't exactly quiet with their blow up and falling out. Is it at all possible there was a witness around who saw the whole thing? Is it possible that Paulie came to Jimmy and said Billy's bosses want to know where he is and what happened to him. Now Tommy was Jimmy's boy he had to play it cool which he did. He could have said he had a few drinks we put him a car and sent him on his way. Paulie being as smart as he was probably thought uh huh right. In the back of his mind he knew these three had something to do with Billy's disappearance but knowing it would cause problems to say anything right away not to mention start a potential war between the families or Tommy. He said nothing and when the time came and for Tommy to get made. He made a call before hand and told the families and the families handled things the way they did. Only reason Jimmy and Henry were spared was because of Paulie. But I'm sure he had to do something even with them handling Tommy later down the line.
Tommy's attitude was like Tony Montana's and thought he can't get got
This falls apart when you consider the time between killing Bats and the trunk smelling like a corpse. If it was a day or two afterwards then that would make sense. I'd wager we they'd all assume Tommy was the prime suspect just based on how the movie projects it.
Actually it took place way after the murder. The scene was after they had to move the body. So I was really confused, to why it was included here
That's the movie.
They are talking about the real story, not some bullshit movie.
@@Rjensen2 the title of the video and his indication twards events in the movie suggest otherwise. Thats just flat out wrong and that he agreed with your post demonstrates he was caught with his pants down. If hes talking about real life theres plenty more research that could have been done to create a solid conclusion. Partially referencing real life in relation to the movie to back his movie claim is what he did, and its lazy and not well thought out. 🤷♂️
No one snitched on him. The crew "knew" what happened, from witnessing the interaction and then Billy Batts going missing. They knew right away it just took a few years for the machinations to work on approval
True, they didn't need hard evidence to consider someone guilty. Having a "gut feeling" was good enough sometimes.
Exactly… everyone in that world immediately knew it was Tommy. Nobody has to rat.
Exactly, would of been better if he came with a smile. Even then they would of known.
This isn't true at all. 🤣🤣🤣
@@Rjensen2 why isn't this true, at the end Henry say's it was one of the reasons he was killed, but didn't say how they knew tommy killed billy.
from what i understand, john gotti is the one who killed tommy...
They said who snitched not who’s the killer
@@MrJRD827well in the book it was Paulie
Henry said that he didn't know for certain, but he had heard that it was Gotti
Fun fact when you're leaving a bar yelling keep him here that's a dead giveaway you had something to do with him disappearing
Paulie sleeping with Karen? That's just ridiculous, stopped listening after that
Small guys don't always have the luxury of being soft spoken carrying a big stick... And thus, you only needed Occam's Razor with Tommy...
@Ceejay ahh, and I guess if you get shot from behind it doesn't matter how big you are...
Yet all the mob bosses in history were small men . Gambino , lucchese , scarfo , Orena etc we’re all under 5’5 and in real life Tommy was 6’2
@@stevec3892 capone was 5'10
The guy that whacked Tommy was a real come from behind guy.
It was Tuddy. Paulie's Brother
Vitos favorite position.
"...and dats dat."
The shine box is the rat!
Tommy brought down himself in that movie when he started acting too reckless. The final straw was shooting at that poor kid who didn't ask for that but was caught up
This was spot on everything said in this even though it wasn't in the movie was accurate as far as the affair with Paul and Karen and the attempted rape of Karen from Tommy. Paulie was furious.
Wrong. In real life Batts would know that the real 6´2¨ Tommy DeSimone was a real and viable threat. Everyone knew that DeSimone had a close relative, (uncle I believe) that was a legit boss in LA and also had a brother or cousin that had turned rat. DeSimone had a lot to prove on multiple levels and was a stone-cold killer. Batt´s guard was down because Tommy had taken him by surprised weeks later after the ¨get you shinebox¨ incident. If it had truly happened the same night as the movie depicts Batt´s cronies that had been with him earlier that night wouldve put two and two together immediately and the Gambinos would've demanded his head right then and there.
If the real Tommy was anything like the character in the movie, then he should have been called "Quack Quack" instead of Angelo Ruggiero.
You don't need a snitch for what happened in that bar, that night. If you pay close attention to the scene when Henry gets out and Paulie slaps him. He tells Henry what he thinks of Tommy and Jimmy. So when Billy turns up missing and Paulie knows all three of them were there that night. What happened was obvious.
I don't think anyone snitched on him so much as they just suspected him ALSO I don't think they killed him just for the Billy Batts hit either. Yes there is a certain level of violence in the Mafia, but Tommy was so psychopathically evil he was a liability. Also, from what I understand the movie version of him is more tame than how he was in real life. That dude was bloodthirsty.
I read Henry Hill's book. Billy Batts wasn't ONLY part of another crew, but he was also best friends with "JOHN GOTTI" himself. Billy Batts's body ended up being found in the 2nd location, and when Henry found out, he ended up Snitching because he was fearing for his life. But in the end, John Gotti ended up wanting to kill Henry because Henry was involved in helping out getting rid of the body, which was the real reason why Henry went into the Witness Protection. Jimmy Conway (Jimmy Burke) wanted to end up killing Henry for Snitching.
@@expendabull2331 Oh shit you are talking about Wiseguys? That book? Or some other book maybe that I don't know about. Either way, kind of fascinating and not sure why the movie didn't cover that other than maybe John Gotti was that powerful even at the time of the film being made perhaps? I am pretty sure he was active around the time. Either way interesting stuff, I dunno, what a crazy life to live.
@voteZDLR
I am talking about that book. In the end, I kind of felt sorry for Henry's ex-wife Karen. The more Henry got into trouble after the Witness Protection, she started to Obese and ended up in a Motorized Carts.
@@expendabull2331 for real?? I know that he kept fucking up after he got into the program, there's a documentary that goes into at length, but I didn't know that. And yeah I have always felt bad for her. She was a kid when they got together, had no idea how dangerous the life he chose was.
On the last part, Tommy running up a large tab and then smashing a bottle over the owner's head was actually what Paulie wanted him to do. It was a scam to get the guy to bring in Paulie as a silent partner so they could bust out the place. You can see by Henry's and Paulie's expressions when the owner went to see them that it was all a scam to them.
There was no snitch, there were witnesses who saw Tommy's behavior in the bar. It was obvious it was him.
It was Batts associates at the bar that night. They saw the one on one altercation. That's why they didn't kill Jimmy & Henry.
In 1990 Frank Vincent was 64 playing the part of a 33-34 year old. Joe Pesci was 47 playing a 20 year old. Ray Liotta was 36 playing 27 year old.
The movie makes Paulie the boss of the lucchesse family. He wasn't in real life. He was a capo and consigliere. His real name was Paul vario. Tommy last name was Desomone
He was underboss and consigliere for a time to Carmine Trumunti, until the latter went to prison for drug trafficking.
the movie never made Paulie out to be the boss of a crime family, only in charge of a crew, that's the way I saw it
Desimone
I watched this movie countless of times, never knew who stitched on him but I felt Tommy wild ways caught up to him
Henry did remember when Pauly smacked him and asked him about the dude & Henry said he came to the bar and nobody seen him after it's was they bar so he knew something
@@leemonwheeler9340 True, Pauly was always a couple of steps ahead
I don't think Pauly was the Snitch though? Pauly wanted to know who killed Bats as well because the other families wanted to get revenge. So he himself also didn't know. Someone had to tell Pauly that it was Tommy from within their family to confirm & green light Tommy's botton. & the other 2 people that knew for a fact were Henry & Jimmy???
Maybe Paulie didn't know or care if Tommy actually killed Billy. Tommy was a liability, anyway. If Paulie could pin it on Tommy and whack him, the matter is settled, Paulie looks like a stand up guy and the other crew stops breaking his balls.
The point of the Vid is he found out via Karen during the affiar; at least enough to get an idea.
My money is on Jimmy! Lufthansa was a lot of money.
@@rvhill69 he was getting rid of wild cards b/c of the heat, and he was able to use Tommy to get rid of Batts, then use that as a way to get rid of Tommy. Probably no reality, but not all hard to believe either.
This channel just got my subscription.
Spiders ghost ratted him out 😂😂
The enormous balls on that guy
Spider was Chris moltisanti in another life.
All that and you still didn't come any closer to who ratted Tommy out....