This is Jen Jewel Brown, a music journalist from Australia that specifically covered counter culture music. At the time this was recorded she worked for the counter-culture music magazine, Daily Planet. She started working there when she was 19.
I thought it was Jen Jewel Brown too and originally posted this thread saying so, but she has come on either here or on my FB page saying it is not her! Why did you think it was her?
@@paulinebutcherbird The year this was filmed, her appearance, and the fact her question is centered around counter-culture music. Another person suggested Lillian Roxon, however she had shorter hair, and I believe she had already passed away before this interview was filmed. Lillian Roxon was 40 in 73, and passed away August 11th. This woman looks fairly young, which was another reason I thought it was Jen Jewel Brown.
@@My-Name-Isnt-Important Certainly it was on this trip to Australia that Frank met Jen Brown which is why I made the wrong conclusion. I agree with you about Lillian Roxon. Baffling as to why no one who knew this woman personally has not come forward. Are they all dead? 🫤
Whoever she is/was, she seems intelligent enough to at least have a conversation w/ Frank, which is a lot more than you can say about the idiots on that Senate committee associated w/ the Parents Music Research Council who Frank just BLISTERED.
@@mcjazzer As was my own experience when I first met Frank and said that Brown Shoes Don't Make It was immoral. He debated with me on the issue of the morality of lyrics for nearly half an hour. That was my 'in'.
I don't understand the hate on Zappa in these comments. To me, this is a respectful discussion. He treats the questions and questioners respecftully and they do the same with him. They seem to want a particular answer and don't get it, but he does answer the questions in his own way. The questions are sharp and intelligent, but so too the responses. I don't get the desire to dish out on someone whose music one doesn't like. Who cares if you don't like Zappa? That says more about you than him.
I’m not clear why so many comments on here infer that people 50 years ago were more coherent or intelligent than now. It is not my experience. Could it be that, through the internet, people with less intellect now have a voice that was absent way back then.
Nostalgia basis and sense of supetiority play the greater role in their statement. And, your point is also correct, to a degree. It may also be asserted that we want small bites now. Example: Headlines are enough. There is no need to read the article itself. We want rapid units of information, then we move on to the next. This is why we see young people riding a bike whilst texting or posting to Facebook. They're taking in multiple streams of data in small units. Old people are dead to the modern world just as old people in the 1960s were dead to that period. Same, same.
today we have more extremes: the factory of stupidity and decadence that is TikTok, and the long-form and in-depth podcasts (Lex Friedman) where the interview lasts even more than 2 or 3 hours
It was this very aspect of Frank Zappa that hooked me on to him when I met him in London in 1967 and told him that Brown Shoes Don't Make It was immoral. We had a discussion about the morality of lyrics for nearly half an hour very much in the way it occurs in this video.
Frank was not only ahead of his time musically, he was an insightful intellectual who understood the real politics behind the business - and the world in general.
@@ButternoteBackingTracks I agree. However, "His music was crap though" comes across as a declaration of fact rather opinion. "I don't like his music, though" is an opinion.
some comments here about the young woman , but Frank wasn't one to suffer fools gladly, he gave a very thoughtful answer to her question , he obviously thought it was a valid question and not confrontational like some posters on here think.
She had good questions. Frank had good answers. Interesting discussion, which answers the general question "Why is there so much crap on the radio/TV/Internet?"
Most extremely intelligent people are highly aware that the vast majority of what we perceive as the truth is subjective. It's never about changing the opinion of the one you debate, it's about making strong points, reflecting on other's arguments, and perhaps learning from one another.
We don’t even see stuff like this on TV anymore. It’s like we’ve regressed as a society. We’ve rewarded stupidity, and an almost shock factor to what we consider entertainment and news. This will be the end of any type of media we have.
@@paulinebutcherbird - on British TV? Not with pop or rock artists. I’ve got loads of interviews with bands like Pink Floyd and others from the 60s-70s and they actually talk about world events, philosophy. No one does that anymore, it’s generally a surprise if a band write their own songs.
@@dukeon True, I was thinking outside the music field. I'm totally out of step with today's music and how it works. Your comment is an education! thank you.
@@SillyGoose2024Well he did have the temarity to call out coming fascist theocracy in the USA in the 80s. Here we are 40 yrs later going down that road.
The entire show is on youtube and I find the debate herein sober and serious - and Zappa seems to appreciate the high level of conversation and gives straight answers to straight questions. This is Zappa when NOT being asked silly questions :-)
This is the weirdest comment section I've seen in a while. Like, that is a very standard exchange between *humans* Is there a tension I'm missing? Or are yall just mad at the girl for reasons you should probably go to therapy over?
I'm old enough to remember when it wasn't unusual to find such intelligent conversations on TV shows, no need for flashing lights, funny voices, or scripts written in baby talk by marketing teams. Whether or not one agrees with any of the speakers, it's a show by grownups made for grownups. Yeah, there was lots of garbage TV in those days as well, but where today in the open cultural sewer that TV has become would you even find something like this? I'm glad at least some memories of this time are being preserved online.
Somebody else in this comments section described how Frank “addressed a political question with an economic answer.” I think that’s exactly the kind of rhetorical reframing the journalist was trying to call out-the question of whether music has a place in politics outside of its branding as *revolutionary, for-the-people “political” music.* People who stand by Frank’s response without seeing the ideological position he’s coming from-a sort of populist libertarianism-aren’t picking up that nuance in her question. He answered like she expected, but did not want, him to. That’s where the tension is coming from. She asks whether it’s appropriate to think about politics in terms of "vote with your dollar" pseudo-economics, given that the concept of “revolutionary rock-n-roll” was already a massive market at the time. We might ask, “are the people determining the economy here, or is the economy determining the people?” And he simply tells her that what the people want is revolution, without himself asking whether the kind of revolution they’re demanding is one they’ve already bought. One they’ve seen before in their Hollywood blockbusters. One they’ve heard before in their record stores. Thanks for posting this video. It’s a very telling exchange. It reminds me of the movie “Network”, in a way-a story about the media’s commodification of the phrase “I’m mad as hell, and I’m not going to take it anymore!”
I'm fascinated by the varied comments on this thread that analyse the exchange between Frank and this unknown woman in so many different ways. And here you come with another different way of seeing it, which I find compelling.
Most people weren't interested in revolution that listened to rock n roll or even groups like the Beatles. They just wanted to party and give the middle finger to adults. Nothing more especially by 1973. Alice Cooper already had a hit with School's Out, a song that has lyrics about blowing up schools. No one took that seriously. No kids attempted to do that " inspired" by the song. The people that liked the song just wanted to smoke pot and be rebellious not revolutionaries. She seems like she would be inspired to political violence through music or a political movement on campus like the college students obsessed with Palestine today. While the normal ones are just wanting to get an education to make money.
@@lk3309 Gracious, I agree with your first analysis up to, 'She seems like . . . ' I personally pull back from stating what college students want and disagree with that last statement.
The woman's opening question -- whether Zappa can ascribe and political revolutionary implications to rock -- is a serious question that provokes a serious discussion. Zappa gives an interesting answer, which basically implies that corporate radio is focused on profits and thus always caters to the interests of their sponsors. But he doesn't really answer the woman's question directly. He simply implies that corporate radio stifles whatever "political revolutionary" potential rock might have. I think Zappa is one of the smartest and politically most interesting artists in the history of rock, but his answer here is not one of his best moments, especially when one recalls that in 1973 lots of folks where getting their rock radio music from college radio stations, which could be quite radical and which were not beholden to corporate interests. My sense is that the women is scratching her head at the end because Zappa has sidestepped her question. The short answer to her question is: no, you can't really ascribe political revolutionary implications to rock, but it can and it has had political-cultural significance and relevance. Zappa's answer points in that direction.
I think it depends on what is meant by "implications." If you mean, "is rock and roll the cause of political revolutions?," then no, not really. But if you mean to ask whether rock reflects revolutionary politics, or if it contributes to them, then yes, absolutely.
Lots of weird pointless sexism in these comments. Why is it that any time a woman even slightly pushes back against a celebrity, everyone’s gotta belittle her? She seems like a normal, friendly person.
A woman's role in a patriarchal society is to be subservient and passive towards men. If a woman pushes back in the slightest way, she threatens the societal order that benefits these men by not behaving the way she is expected to, and when other women see that there is no reason they should be treated worse than men across the board when they can do anything a man can just as good they might catch on to how patriarchy should be abolished. so they have to put her back in her place by intellectually degrading her. Where you see an exchange of wits, they see a man "pwning an uppity woman epic style" cause they're empty conduits of sexism.
@@tonirasic1728 I see women holding their own in many areas today, in the judiciary, in politics, in medicine, etc. But it is true, given two women a week are tragically killed in the UK by their partners, there is still a long way to go.
@@tonirasic1728Das war genau der falsche Gegner, den sie für das verantwortlich zu machen versucht, was ihr von anderen zugefügt wurde. Aber HIER kann sie glänzen: DARAUF kommt es ihr an!
There was a time when a challenging and articulate question was welcomed, as well as the back and forth of clarifying the question. Don't be put off by style. This is dialogue. Something we no longer do much of.
I had Anne Cranny-Francis suggested. She graduated in 1974 in Australia and completed a PhD at the University of East Anglia in 1984. Her subjects revolve around politics and literature. She recently retired as Professor of Cultural Studies at UTS. Photographs of her do not look dissimilar.
G'day Pauline, this comment thread has cost me hours! But not as many hours as it has cost you I bet. I have never seen someone spend so much time responding, well done! The algorithm brought me here after Frank's interview with Norman Gunston...! I think the folk all claiming Frank was boring, narcissistic, stuck up etc should watch that interview and see him converse with humour as well as respect for the situation. Also the respect he showed when he realised that The Little Bleeder could really blow the harp! The woman asking the question in this clip reminds me of an old friend of mine who spent 13 years at Sydney uni, earning her phd in clinical psychology. She was quite political - became a singer in a punk band at one stage, but no, Rhonda would of only been early teens in 73. Good luck in your search. Cheers!
It's really nice to get an overview of this thread in a pleasant way and give a suggestion for the mystery woman as well but sadly not the one. I was wondering how people were finding this post, now I know.
@@paulinebutcherbird Frank Zappa and Anonymous Student have civil conversation despite differing views! Why can't we talk like this anymore? How's that for a better title?
@@enochlamont877 Actually that is quite good, but it is your copyright to use yourself. I can't change this title after one month but thank you for your response.
I honestly think it’s interesting how he acknowledges that the type of music that’s popular can depend every bit as much on who’s consuming it as who’s producing it. Kinda goes against the popular societal narrative of “The Man” being the one who’s merely pushing garbage on people without their consent if you ask me.
@paulinebutcherbird I imagine it's a two-way effect - the producer tries something out and it sells, so they follow up with something similar on the assumption that that's what people want. Similarly, if the producer tries something out and no one buys it, that brand gets buried. Reply
Anything that's fun or popular with a large cohort gets commercialized and promoted until the moneyed interests wring every penny they can out of it or until people get sick of it. In music there's been a long history of the artists being exploited by the producers managers, record companies, Mickey Hart's dad. The Kinks did a whole album about that called Lola versus Power Man and the Moneygoround, Part One I grew up on Frank Zappa was making music and I'd much rather listen to him talking about things then playing music to be honest. That's a compliment to his intelligence
@@charlesandrews2360 If you're more interested in the man, you might be interested in my book that details Frank's home life not found in other books, from getting up to going to bed, composing and rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more. 'Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa, Laurel Canyon, 1968-1971.'
I think Zappa was very respectful to her because her question was on point. As a kid growing up in the '50's, Zappa knew that rock/rock and roll did have political revolutionary implications. Seems like he didn't want to cut to the chase so he could highlight the commercialism of popular music in that time.
Frank was very respectful by nature. When I told him that Brown Shoes Don't Make It was immoral, he debated with me for nearly half an hour. And I agree with your second comment but it would have been better had he answered her question head on.
@paulinebutcherbird in my mind, Zappa was always in tune with sussing out hypocrisy, commercialism impacting art and freedom of expression. Only you and a handful of others would truly know if that's 'correct'.
The questioner seems either arrogant or daft. Daft because in 1973 rock and roll was still revolutionary. In fact, in three years time punk exploded and gave voice to a huge number of disaffected youth and briefly threatened to turn British society upside down. And I’m not even talking about sex or drugs. The fact that Zappa chose to address the neutering of rock music by commercialism shows that he was ahead of her, as well as above because he was so polite. Arrogant because she assumes that a musical dimension to political events is a "Hollywood" invention. It's obvious that she hadn't heard of Giuseppe Verdi's operas being the soundtrack to Italy's _Risorgimento_ or how intensely political and pro-revolutionary Ludwig van Beethoven's music was. I don't know what she thinks of rock music, but she obviously deemed it beneath her. Like Hollywood.
@@Azabaxe80 there have been hundreds of comments on here analysing the exchange between these two, so congratulations for adding a different spin on it.
He was sharp, and he wasn't manipulated or intimidated by people who underestimated him bbecause of his unfair public image. Listening to him here, man, did he ever put these people in their places. He wasn't a perfect human being, not a saint. But he was one of the good ones. I wish he were still here today.
I think Frank went right to the heart of the question. Money/sponsors dictated the music you heard. Life happened and music was written about it. Not the other way around. Political revolution, sex and drugs are a few of many things that inspired the music. Frank supported the young lady's statement.
Looks like she asks a good question (about a revolution without musical accompaniment) that he doesn't clearly answer except that music can correspond to the mood of a particular audience (and perhaps inspire them?) She's articulate and focused, but seems to be careful in her approach. Nothing bad meant about Zappa, just complementing the woman. Maybe they need a clear definition of "revolution" that they can both address.
@@paulinebutcherbird I very much doubt it. The quality of the student body has gone down. Nobody studies properly anymore. The number of semiliterates who get degrees now is disturbing. Having said that, of course elite students still exist. And this highly articulate young woman certainly came into that category, so my comment was aimed more at the mass of students. I wonder what the woman in the video achieved. I bet she did well.
@@1990-t1j The most promising name offered to me was for an academic - it's somewhere down in this list of comments - she studied also in England and then returned to Australia and taught at universities there. She is now retired,, but someone said they contacted her and although they looked similar, apparently it was a false trail.
@user-sw2lv3zp6o this is a fairly sad and misinformed view. It's easy to see all the dumb things college kids do today. In the past we were all just as dumb, it was just not as visible. To say nobody studies anymore is narrow-minded and deliberately blind to the commitment many of these youngsters have. If you have doubts, try going to some lectures at a nearby college. This young lady may be in the upper echelon, but I assure you there are many college students doing their best
@@theobolt250 From what I understand he was similar to Captain Beefheart in the sense that he worked outside the pop idiom and arranged highly complex pieces with several tempo changes and unusual chord changes. Did he come from a jazz background?
@@davidc.williams-swanseauk3623 No. He came from a Catholic, lower middle class family in Cucamonga. And the big difference between them was that FZ was an outstanding businessman and managed to make money even though the radio stations refused to play his music. Captain Beefheart had no business skills and was broke most of his life. There are many biographies. Try one by Barry Miles.
@@davidc.williams-swanseauk3623 Of course FZ and Don Van Vliet were High School friends, and FZ produced the Captain Beefheart magnum opus "Trout Mask Replica".
It seemed like a reasonable series of questions and reasonable answers. Zappa was a smart guy, and when he was in a room with smart people he was more than capable of carrying on intellectual conversations.
I can't imagine a world where many different types of music are available on radio stations, for my entire life it's been the same 50 songs repeated ad nauseum.
Are you saying the radio stations today have less variety? Why would you listen to radio today when there is so much stuff you can listen to elsewhere?
Yep. Taylor Swift and Billie Eilish in every goddamn gas station, grocery store, auto body shop, mall, restaurant... it never ends. I honestly wish I could go places where there isn't any music.playing for once. Like just enjoy the silence and then get an earworm of music I actually like at my own discretion.
Why "challenged"? The question didn't pose any challenge, and I'm not referring to the fact that Zappa was way ahead of most of his peers, nor am I diminishing the question or the person asking it. It was a very straightforward question that anyone with a fair knowledge of the US music business would answer without breaking a sweat. So... why "challenged"?
Daddydoom, you are not the first person to question me about the use of the word 'challenge' so I'm going to change it to 'question' and let's see if interest falls off!
@@LordVader1094 Which is funny because a lot of presumably older commenters bemoan the "old times" when such intelligent discussion could have taken a place without artificial hype.
@@paulinebutcherbird anything related with Zappa has always its fair share of interest from the get go. Using tricks to get more people to come is just dishonest.
I think that's a misquote. It sounds like you've read that misleading book about the miliary being involved in some mysterious way in Laurel Canyon when in fact, the same can be said about any group of people at that time in any city, because the military was the biggest employer so it's unlikely that any family was no drawn into it's murky ways.
@@paulinebutcherbird I tried to look it it up, sometimes it was 'government', instead of 'politics' but both could be variations of this: “One of the things my artist friends like to point out is that politics, entertainment, and business are the same thing. Like Frank Zappa said: ‘Politics is the entertainment branch of industry.’ It’s all a big sideshow, all set up to divert your attention from the way corporations are screwing the public.” - David Collins - (A Small Town for its Size)
Zappa always was a bit disregarded by the mainstream industry for the the manner he approached music. He worked out a mix in between contemporary avant-garde and rock. And he was so much aware of the mechanics of everything around him...
Indeed, and the other factor that is so often overlooked is what a brilliant businessman he was. Who else would advertise in comics? And he had no embarrassment in how he gained publicity - for example, in England on their first trip when no one had heard of them, he put on a short dress to reveal hairy legs, together with false boobs and his hair tied in bunches either side of his head to depict a Mother. The photo was all over the front pages of the music papers.
@@paulinebutcherbird Oh... Are you actually the author of the book "Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa"??? (If you are) I just bought it on my kindle and I'm thrilled with, not only with the details on Zappa's personality, but also with the quality and delicious flow of the writing. Since my 14's that I became a fan of that twisted Zappa sound, later when enrolling to study at my home town's conservatorium of music it impacted me that Zappa was actually fascinated by Edgard Varèse as he was also a very rare orchestra conductor that wouldn't play the piano but the guitar instead... and that was another unexpected door to understand his music. But I totally agree with you on Frank's other dimension that also contributes to his musical universe, his natural curiosity and clear mind of the social mechanics that would reject or accept his work. It must have been quite a ride to know him at his own backstage :) Your book is absolute fun to read, and a very smart and amazing human quality approach to the reading of the personality of one of the greatest musicians of the 20th century... :)
You notice how civil this was . She asked a question, she wasnt trying to trip him up, she wasn't trying to say "got ya" or anything thing like that she just asked a valid question and he gave a valid answer.
It was that very fact that hooked me on to Frank Zappa when he employed me to take down the lyrics of Absolutely Free when he was in London. I did so but told him I thought the lyrics of Brown Shoes Don't Make It were immoral. He debated with me for nearly half an hour in the same measured way as he does here, and I was knocked out. Long story short, I ended up living and working in his house in Hollywood for three years. Frank encouraged me to write about it and I did, if you're interested.
@@christopherpetersen9956 Ah! That's nice of you,Christopher, and set me smiling, so thank you. It's available on amazon or I can send you a signed copy but if you're in America or elsewhere abroad from UK, postage is more than the cost of the book as I send them 'tracked'.
It looks like some kind of debate or panel discussion with students at a university. I'm sure today's equivalent will be much the same. They sound smart because they are, they're at place for smart people
I've noticed that several of these hate comments are from recently created accounts. I highly encourage people like this to try developing a personality, if possible. Frank has played a huge influence in both my taste in music and societal observations.
No drugs.(Besides the cigarettes that killed him from prostrate cancer, but he eschewed psychedelics and narcotics. Thats why he sounds thoughtful and clear headed.)
@@stefanschleps8758 Bob Marley was high 24/7 and he sounded thoughtful and clearheaded. If one is thoughtful, he will always be thoughtful. If one is stupid, he will be stupid.
Zappa was well aware of the music business environment in general and knew how it functioned. He was on top of everything and didn't take crap from anyone and his answers were always well thought out !
To me, this does not seem like a case of Zappa being "persistently questioned" and "challenged." To me, this sounds like a reasonable discussion about the state of the music industry and its political relevance.
Most of the comments are out of context. This clip was taken from an hour-long Australian television programme, the central theme of which is to reflect on the relationship between cultural production and social change. The panel members are not arrogant, they are simply people interested in reflecting on the culture of their time, that's all. Full show: ruclips.net/video/wTLOsoMMDuE/видео.htmlsi=N6d8I6ZIkBwKnFJr
@@paulinebutcherbird Hi Pauline. A lot of people have commented based on what you can see in this clip, which is just a fragment of a program that has a thematic focus. I was just trying to put things into context. I was 10 years old in 1973, and I am South American. I have no idea who that young woman could be. Cheers.
I think so, too. It reminds me of when I first met Frank Zappa and told him that Brown Shoes Don't Make it was immoral. He debated with me in a similar way as here but about the morality of lyrics.
Indeed, but it was this very fact about Frank that hooked me on to him when I met him in London in 1967 and took down the lyrics of Absolutely Free. I told him that Brown Shoes Don't Make It was an immoral song and he debated with in a similar way as in this video. Long story short, I ended up living and working in his log cabin in Hollywood and write about the experience in my memoir which details Frank's home life not shown in other books, from getting up to going to bed, composing and rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more. 'Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa, Laurel Canyon 1968-1971.'
Interesting question/comment from the (I think she is) British woman about revolutions having musical accompaniment in light of the fact that this interview is likely before the rise of British punk as the collective voice of British youth's discontent with their future prospects. The Sex Pistols' "No future for you" was as much an economic statement as it was a political one. Thanks for sharing
Actually, she's an Australian, perhaps a cultured one, because you are not alone in thinking she is English. This exchange took place in 1973 and I believe the Sex Pistols formed in 1975 so your comment is correct.
@@greg55666 This comment has been made many times throughout this post that people no longer have conversations. I do find this with our son. He insists he doesn't like phone calls any more and I admit anything longer than five minutes on the phone is as much as I can tolerate, but we still have friends over, have dinner, and meet in restaurants, and we have conversations for two or three hours. Is this unusual?
I went backstage after a Zappa concert in Tallahassee in late 1970. It was at the FSU gym and I just walked in to the dressing room as a deep fan of his music. He was so normal it was almost strange, he sat on a sofa with a Nagra portable tape recorder and a very expensive-looking microphone, taping the goings on probably for future use. I asked him specific questions about specific album tracks and he answered them. If you talked music with Frank he took you seriously. It was politics and other subjects where he tended to go off. His sense of humor was astounding.
What a great story. You were lucky it was 1970, a year before he was knocked off stage in England. After that, it was difficult to get near him as his bodyguard stood in the way.
If you would like to know more such as Frank's daily life not shown in other books, from getting up to going to bed, composing and rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more, then try 'Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa Laurel Canyon 1968-1971'.
Wow, the comments are wild. I think he agreed with her, that rock or any kind of music isn't gonna make any revolution. It can facilitate it, but in the end it's just a medium and revolutions are not about any medium but about a conflict. She was questioning a "holywoodesque" notion that rock music is/will be essential for revolution and he agreed with her saying: "that's not true" (that notion). He then followed it by stating that theams in music/music styles are secondary to the underlying mood of society and become popular because there is already a demand for them.
@@paulinebutcherbird I think FZ wouldn't think much of this conversation since it is in no way controversial but has a rather mundane conclusions for anyone who knows a little bit about society and culture. Also, I'm pretty sure he would roll his eyes at people calling him a genius after hearing this exchange, since it's conclusions are not ground breaking. But as one can see in the vid, he wouldn't scoff at it either cause it still has enough nuance to make it somewhat productive. ps. They seem to be talking a bit past each other, but I put it on the fact thah her first Q is both broad and vague, since "revolutionary implications of rock" or any art is a subject for academic works and I assume that's why he was reluctant to answer it, cause it would turn into a lecture. As soon as she narrows down her Q he answers it directly and gives rationale for it.
Seems like Frank always wanted to make a biting, dead honest comment with his music and was very critical but that was good! I think he was in his way a big hearted person. He strived to be the best he could be and for what he believed in with a tremendous work ethic, the highest artistic standards and he gave lots of opportunites for other musicians to shine. A collaborative artist. Poor Frank - he died too young. Chain smoking probably didnt help. I loved st alfonso’s pancake - father oblivion. But a few of the pure guitar solo ones were so damn magical - like black napkins- and watermelons - that one was so good it still makes me cry. so much feeling! But I also loved jackson five so go figure! This interview was really cool. The lady clearly dug him.
It was exactly that show of respect that Frank gave to me when I said his song, 'Brown Shoes Don't Make It,' was immoral. He debated with me about morality of lyrics for nearly half an hour and I was hooked. In fact, I ended up living and working in his house for three years 1968-1971 and wrote a book, the only one that gives Frank's home life, told from within.
@@paulinebutcherbird thank you for writing that book--I enjoyed it. It was refreshingly different from most of the stuff out there about FZ (and the original Mothers)
That's just what we used to call journalism. You know, standard informed questions on the subject at hand. Something that is lost through most of today's entertainment soaked social lenses. And their short attention spans.
@@stefanmatthias Interview between whom? Between Andrew Greenaway and Ahmet Zappa? I'm waiting to hear from Andrew. I don't think he was referring to this woman in this video in that footnote, because he was the first person to question if it was in fact Jen Jewel Brown on here when I posted this thread and asked if this was Jen Jewel Brown. I have since changed the title.
I see most of the people here completely misunderstood his statements. The music reflects the listeners, it is inherently political. Revolutionaries listen to music.
The age old question, does art imitate life or does life imitate art or "politics" in this case.... It's probably a little of both. Like one big snowball.
Possibly his best advice to other musicians was to ensure they get music publishing rights on their compositions. It was one of his main sources of income. One of his
This is an amazing video and I’m so wonderfully glad I saw it! I loved your book Pauline and I’m so glad to have found your presence on here to prove just as fruitful ❤
Agreed. Perhaps you'd like to read more about the man, in particular his home life not found in other books, from getting up to going to bed, composing and rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more. 'Freak Out! My life With Frank Zappa, Laurel Canyon 1968-1971'
One thing missing in his amazing comment/opinion is the spectrum of artist to entertainer. The Osmonds were entertainers more than artists (imo and it's not a judgement nor am I suggesting they were "less than"), and Zappa was an artist more than entertainer. Pop music is full of wonderful artists and entertainers and you can be both (but being successful at both is rarer), but at the end of the day, those same marketers and record companies built some of these acts from the ground up, where others were simply "discovered" fully formed (not meaning they didn't evolved, but just that they already had their voice and look with little or no involvement from the record companies). Nothing wrong with either, though I'll admit I lean towards the artists who can entertain vs. the entertainers who have some artistry. Regardless, they got exposure from the record company machine and all had to deal with them. I think that is what Zappa is saying, though he didn't really answer her questions.
The Osmonds did a great album called Crazy Horses, which proved to be influential in the late Eighties. Paul Gilbert refers to it as a seminal influence. They were a bit more than just teen artists.
Frank was singularly, painfully, honest about music. Always. As you say. But he was also capable of not being honest to himself. Especially with regard to his smoking and especially his eventual cancer. Which was likely at least partly due to that habit. No human is without their foibles. And Frank Zappa, as brilliant as he was, was also sometimes frail, and as self-deluded as the rest of us.
Frank Zappa displays his enormous intelligence, humor and cool here. Not sure what the point of the questions is, that rock wasn't causing political change? First off, rock started as good time music with a strong back beat, way different from the music of our elders, rebellious and wild. It was a revolution in and of itself. Nearly 7 decades later and it has gone through a lot of iterations, but anyone complaining that it doesn't speak to political ideas missed the 60's I guess, for that notion was everywhere back then, rock was the soundtrack for massive civil rights marches, anti war marches, lots of groups sang passionately about the changes that were needed, Dylan was all over it, and all of that music was on the radio. Sorry, no idea who the young lady is, may her identity be revealed to you. Thanks for the Frank video!
Unspeakable and utterly typical Boomer self-importance, believing that your twatty predilection for rock music had revolutionary political consequences. The men in suits didn't give two shits if 20,000 unwashed Jimi Hendrix aficionados were marching in front of the White House, and it had zero bearing on their decision-making.
That is exactly right. In 1967, Frank himself was commissioned to write a book about the political impact of rock on young Americans, but didn't, in the end write it. Perhaps you should!
Former adjunct music professor here. "Good time music with a strong back beat, way different from the music of our elders, rebellious and wild" could very easily be used to describe swing music of the 1930's. In fact, the drum set patterns that would later infuse rock and roll were invented back then. And even before that the jazz, blues, and "hillbilly" music of the 1920's was considered scandalous because the radio stations weren't supposed to be broadcasting that "vulgar" music. And if anyone doesn't understand that these styles of music were, in fact, political then I'd question their understanding of the topic. Jazz was both a "good time music music with a strong backbeat" and an integral part of the Harlem Renaissance. Hillbilly music was giving voice to the downtrodden white working class and blues was doing the same for the black working class, demographics that were basically considered invisible and inconsequential in polite American society.
@@southtxguitarist8926 Thank you for your comment which, combined with those of others on this thread, is giving me at any rate, a pleasant run-through of music's relationship with politics.
My favourite musician. Maverick, iconoclastic, virtuoso, always provocative with a brilliant musical mind- there is none like him in the music scene today.
Conlan Nancarrow before FZ then after, the people you think are not seen, are. But not in the industry as much. The new ones today are mostly on SM making scenes, it's out of mainstream industry vocabulary. FZ had other genus players are now are teaching kids. Check em out - Tommy Mars as a collage gig guest blew my mind - the kids were on fire! Belew is making waves with bringing more audience from other scenes into maverick music... Stuff is bubbling, dude.
Cool clip. I'm 64 and have studied, taught and performed music for over 40 years. I like Frank Zappa and own a couple of his albums. I even frequented Van Gogh's Ear Lobe in Brisbane during the 90's for Frank Zappa night. I would, however, be interested to know exactly what it is that makes him so special for those that hold him in such high regard. Don't be afraid to get technical.
I'm no expert on Zappa, but I do have 3 degrees in music. Similar to you, I'm 60, and have been a professional musician for over 40 years, I've taught music from middle school to the college level, and I'm always striving to learn more. My take on Zappa is, he was a very talented man, who surrounded himself with very talented musicians. Probably simplistic of me, but that's what it boils down to. Whether rock music or orchestral, he wrote difficult, complicated stuff, and it takes serious work and dedication to perform it well.
@@adude394 He was also able to write lovely tunes. For example, the melody beneath Lucille is beautiful, and even the orchestration of Valley Girl is very impressive. I think it is in this middle field of 'modern' music (60s-90s) he stands out with totally original songs, not love songs, and watching him on RUclips videos, some of his numbers like Montana are brilliantly performed.. Of course there are others in the music scene who are also brilliant, but Frank created a unique niche.
Maybe off topic, but have you ever heard anyone who could enunciate so well! You can understand every syllable of Zappa lyrics . The pronunciation is incredible .
@@paulinebutcherbird He did a lot with two or three chords. Like in "Black Napkins" which I think is just two chords. I might be wrong, but it seems to me that his music could be both complex and simple or segue between both as well.
What makes Frank special? His songwriting was highly original and combined satire with top notch musicianship. He composed outside the boundaries of traditional 'rock' and even went into '20th century classical'. He was smart and had an inquiring mind. He played a musical bicycle on Steve Allen's show for crying. out loud! He couldn't get a record deal, so he produced all his own albums and sold them at concerts. He was a friend of Captain Beefheart's in high school. What about him is NOT special? He composed with lyrics and purely instrumental. He was awesome.
![GEEK TIMË [OFFICIAL AUDIO]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ry-6RvkH880/mqdefault.jpg)
This is Jen Jewel Brown, a music journalist from Australia that specifically covered counter culture music. At the time this was recorded she worked for the counter-culture music magazine, Daily Planet. She started working there when she was 19.
I thought it was Jen Jewel Brown too and originally posted this thread saying so, but she has come on either here or on my FB page saying it is not her! Why did you think it was her?
@@paulinebutcherbird The year this was filmed, her appearance, and the fact her question is centered around counter-culture music.
Another person suggested Lillian Roxon, however she had shorter hair, and I believe she had already passed away before this interview was filmed. Lillian Roxon was 40 in 73, and passed away August 11th.
This woman looks fairly young, which was another reason I thought it was Jen Jewel Brown.
@@My-Name-Isnt-Important Certainly it was on this trip to Australia that Frank met Jen Brown which is why I made the wrong conclusion. I agree with you about Lillian Roxon. Baffling as to why no one who knew this woman personally has not come forward. Are they all dead? 🫤
Whoever she is/was, she seems intelligent enough to at least have a conversation w/ Frank, which is a lot more than you can say about the idiots on that Senate committee associated w/ the Parents Music Research Council who Frank just BLISTERED.
@@mcjazzer As was my own experience when I first met Frank and said that Brown Shoes Don't Make It was immoral. He debated with me on the issue of the morality of lyrics for nearly half an hour. That was my 'in'.
She asked him about politics, and he responded with economics. Guy cut to the heart of the matter: marketing product.
Hence the move to more independent radio stations in 68
He's an American. In the US politics is a sub-set of economics.
I don't understand the hate on Zappa in these comments. To me, this is a respectful discussion. He treats the questions and questioners respecftully and they do the same with him. They seem to want a particular answer and don't get it, but he does answer the questions in his own way. The questions are sharp and intelligent, but so too the responses. I don't get the desire to dish out on someone whose music one doesn't like. Who cares if you don't like Zappa? That says more about you than him.
Thank you for your nice comment. Agreed on all counts.
I love Zappa
@@Miguel...160 Tell me your favourite piece or song.
@@paulinebutcherbird way too many , but i have a Fender Strat with wammy bar 🎸☺️
@@Miguel...160 Nice.
She really only asked one question and then conversed. Zappa looked like he was enjoying himself in intelligent company.
I think so too. I turned the sound off and watched their facial expressions and they seem on the same page.
because he could speak at length?
@@renegadedalek5528 Not really sure what you mean.
@@alancumming6407 I've given what I think is the answer above. Hope you don't mind the intrusion.
@@paulinebutcherbird No, that's fine Pauline.
They actually had a very relevant conversation, even today, in a much calmer tone than people do today.
Politics is a blood sport now. We are spinning down the toilet.
Frank's response was always quiet and measured.
Women didn't take as many psychotrauma drugs back then.
Ah, back when the average person on TV could actually string a half coherent sentence together
I’m not clear why so many comments on here infer that people 50 years ago were more coherent or intelligent than now. It is not my experience. Could it be that, through the internet, people with less intellect now have a voice that was absent way back then.
The key word being "on TV". As Pauline says the average person is as dumb as ever! Even if she was a little nicer about it
Nostalgia basis and sense of supetiority play the greater role in their statement.
And, your point is also correct, to a degree. It may also be asserted that we want small bites now.
Example: Headlines are enough. There is no need to read the article itself. We want rapid units of information, then we move on to the next. This is why we see young people riding a bike whilst texting or posting to Facebook. They're taking in multiple streams of data in small units. Old people are dead to the modern world just as old people in the 1960s were dead to that period. Same, same.
today we have more extremes: the factory of stupidity and decadence that is TikTok, and the long-form and in-depth podcasts (Lex Friedman) where the interview lasts even more than 2 or 3 hours
Challenged? She asked intelligent questions, he answered intelligently.
It’s possible to be challenged and also answer intelligently
So he was challenged...
Those are silly questions. You are just buffaloed by her good looks and show-off vocabulary.
Challenged is a compliment
He answers intelligently
Love how patient he is and how interested he is in answering the question thoughtfully
It was this very aspect of Frank Zappa that hooked me on to him when I met him in London in 1967 and told him that Brown Shoes Don't Make It was immoral. We had a discussion about the morality of lyrics for nearly half an hour very much in the way it occurs in this video.
@@paulinebutcherbird You're a legend.
@@stefanschleps8758 Thank you, Stefan, but I'm not sure with whom! Do you plan to get Moon's book?
Frank was not only ahead of his time musically, he was an insightful intellectual who understood the real politics behind the business - and the world in general.
@@Gaming-Shedin your opinion, which me and millions of other people would disagree with.
@@Gaming-Shed typical jackson five listener answer
@@ButternoteBackingTracks There's always one in every video featuring Zappa. They can't wait to crap on his music.
@@richardgrier8968we're all entitled to voice our opinion and I don't have a problem as long as it's presented as such 😉
@@ButternoteBackingTracks I agree. However, "His music was crap though" comes across as a declaration of fact rather opinion. "I don't like his music, though" is an opinion.
"Persistently questioned." "Interviewed," even.
Yes, there is that, too.
I think he appreciated her intelligence. Zappa was an articulate, formidable interviewee.
Agreed.
@@paulinebutcherbird You love a bad musician with no relevant songs. We get it. Just dont think people care.
@@marksienicki1253 Who is the 'we' in your comment?
some comments here about the young woman , but Frank wasn't one to suffer fools gladly, he gave a very thoughtful answer to her question , he obviously thought it was a valid question and not confrontational like some posters on here think.
Agreed.
Hear, hear.
Some men like those commentators can't handle an intelligent question by a woman. Frank could.
She had good questions. Frank had good answers. Interesting discussion, which answers the general question "Why is there so much crap on the radio/TV/Internet?"
Quite right
She didn't challenge, she merely stood their ground as did Frank.
That's how conversation between intelligent people works, or at least used to
It's how my relationship with Frank began when I said Brown Shoes Don't Make It is immoral.
Most extremely intelligent people are highly aware that the vast majority of what we perceive as the truth is subjective. It's never about changing the opinion of the one you debate, it's about making strong points, reflecting on other's arguments, and perhaps learning from one another.
We don’t even see stuff like this on TV anymore. It’s like we’ve regressed as a society. We’ve rewarded stupidity, and an almost shock factor to what we consider entertainment and news. This will be the end of any type of media we have.
We do have stuff like this on British TV, but on social media, certainly it is rare, so in general I'm in accord with you.
@@paulinebutcherbird - on British TV? Not with pop or rock artists. I’ve got loads of interviews with bands like Pink Floyd and others from the 60s-70s and they actually talk about world events, philosophy. No one does that anymore, it’s generally a surprise if a band write their own songs.
@@dukeon True, I was thinking outside the music field. I'm totally out of step with today's music and how it works. Your comment is an education! thank you.
We entertain now, we do not inform.
Books. Always and forever.
i don't think of zappa as a genius so much as i see a very thoughtful, knowledgeable, educated man.
Exactly. We throw around the word genius way too often.
@@SillyGoose2024Well he did have the temarity to call out coming fascist theocracy in the USA in the 80s.
Here we are 40 yrs later going down that road.
@@bobbafett1849 That doesn't make him a genius, of course.
Well, his IQ qualified him as genius level. Although I was never a hardcore fan, his impressive body of work qualifies at least as much.
@@GCKelloch IQ has nothing to do with creative genius. Some serial killers had high IQs.
The entire show is on youtube and I find the debate herein sober and serious - and Zappa seems to appreciate the high level of conversation and gives straight answers to straight questions. This is Zappa when NOT being asked silly questions :-)
How do I find it? I really want to hear the whole thing
@@SingleMalt77005 So do I !
Frank was so much more savvy and well informed than just about any other musician. He could see through the business-end BS and the creative-end BS.
Agree with all of that though I might put it more politely!
This is the weirdest comment section I've seen in a while. Like, that is a very standard exchange between *humans*
Is there a tension I'm missing? Or are yall just mad at the girl for reasons you should probably go to therapy over?
I laughed. It's a bit like Beauty and the Beast!
A lot of unjustified resentment towards women
Yes, odd how it provokes such strong reactions against both participants..
@@XX-zu2rd Indeed.
I'm old enough to remember when it wasn't unusual to find such intelligent conversations on TV shows, no need for flashing lights, funny voices, or scripts written in baby talk by marketing teams. Whether or not one agrees with any of the speakers, it's a show by grownups made for grownups. Yeah, there was lots of garbage TV in those days as well, but where today in the open cultural sewer that TV has become would you even find something like this? I'm glad at least some memories of this time are being preserved online.
Agree wholeheartedly.
Some people argue it's the podcasts these days.
@@supernewsuper True, there are some very intelligent podcasts out there.
Somebody else in this comments section described how Frank “addressed a political question with an economic answer.” I think that’s exactly the kind of rhetorical reframing the journalist was trying to call out-the question of whether music has a place in politics outside of its branding as *revolutionary, for-the-people “political” music.*
People who stand by Frank’s response without seeing the ideological position he’s coming from-a sort of populist libertarianism-aren’t picking up that nuance in her question. He answered like she expected, but did not want, him to. That’s where the tension is coming from. She asks whether it’s appropriate to think about politics in terms of "vote with your dollar" pseudo-economics, given that the concept of “revolutionary rock-n-roll” was already a massive market at the time. We might ask, “are the people determining the economy here, or is the economy determining the people?” And he simply tells her that what the people want is revolution, without himself asking whether the kind of revolution they’re demanding is one they’ve already bought. One they’ve seen before in their Hollywood blockbusters. One they’ve heard before in their record stores.
Thanks for posting this video. It’s a very telling exchange. It reminds me of the movie “Network”, in a way-a story about the media’s commodification of the phrase “I’m mad as hell, and I’m not going to take it anymore!”
I'm fascinated by the varied comments on this thread that analyse the exchange between Frank and this unknown woman in so many different ways. And here you come with another different way of seeing it, which I find compelling.
Most people weren't interested in revolution that listened to rock n roll or even groups like the Beatles. They just wanted to party and give the middle finger to adults. Nothing more especially by 1973. Alice Cooper already had a hit with School's Out, a song that has lyrics about blowing up schools. No one took that seriously. No kids attempted to do that " inspired" by the song. The people that liked the song just wanted to smoke pot and be rebellious not revolutionaries. She seems like she would be inspired to political violence through music or a political movement on campus like the college students obsessed with Palestine today. While the normal ones are just wanting to get an education to make money.
@@lk3309 Gracious, I agree with your first analysis up to, 'She seems like . . . ' I personally pull back from stating what college students want and disagree with that last statement.
The woman's opening question -- whether Zappa can ascribe and political revolutionary implications to rock -- is a serious question that provokes a serious discussion. Zappa gives an interesting answer, which basically implies that corporate radio is focused on profits and thus always caters to the interests of their sponsors. But he doesn't really answer the woman's question directly. He simply implies that corporate radio stifles whatever "political revolutionary" potential rock might have. I think Zappa is one of the smartest and politically most interesting artists in the history of rock, but his answer here is not one of his best moments, especially when one recalls that in 1973 lots of folks where getting their rock radio music from college radio stations, which could be quite radical and which were not beholden to corporate interests. My sense is that the women is scratching her head at the end because Zappa has sidestepped her question. The short answer to her question is: no, you can't really ascribe political revolutionary implications to rock, but it can and it has had political-cultural significance and relevance. Zappa's answer points in that direction.
Great comment.
I would however try and squabble about what one implies with the label "political revolutionary" vs. "political-cultural significance".
An excellent and succinct summary.
I think it depends on what is meant by "implications." If you mean, "is rock and roll the cause of political revolutions?," then no, not really. But if you mean to ask whether rock reflects revolutionary politics, or if it contributes to them, then yes, absolutely.
@@Philmoscowitz Well stated and agreed.
Hmm, for me he says, if the audience prefers and listens to hard core revolutionary music, the industry will make a station about it.
I don't think they are 'challenging' him, they're asking him questions. It seems to me like a civilized conversation between two people.
That is my view, too.
I love how articulate Frank was.
also get the impression that he appreciates how intelligent the young woman is in her questioning.
Yes, I do, too. His eyebrows going up and down and trying quite hard to communicate with her.
Zappa's interviews are always enjoyable to listen to. He was such a clear thinker, plus witty and calm.
Thank you for that nice comment. Yes, to all you say.
I remove verbally abusive comments.
Lots of weird pointless sexism in these comments. Why is it that any time a woman even slightly pushes back against a celebrity, everyone’s gotta belittle her? She seems like a normal, friendly person.
There are also lots of complimentary comments about her. But it is true, we've had a run of bad-ass comments recently, as the Americans say.
A woman's role in a patriarchal society is to be subservient and passive towards men. If a woman pushes back in the slightest way, she threatens the societal order that benefits these men by not behaving the way she is expected to, and when other women see that there is no reason they should be treated worse than men across the board when they can do anything a man can just as good they might catch on to how patriarchy should be abolished. so they have to put her back in her place by intellectually degrading her. Where you see an exchange of wits, they see a man "pwning an uppity woman epic style" cause they're empty conduits of sexism.
@@tonirasic1728 I see women holding their own in many areas today, in the judiciary, in politics, in medicine, etc. But it is true, given two women a week are tragically killed in the UK by their partners, there is still a long way to go.
@@tonirasic1728Das war genau der falsche Gegner, den sie für das verantwortlich zu machen versucht, was ihr von anderen zugefügt wurde. Aber HIER kann sie glänzen: DARAUF kommt es ihr an!
Criticizing a woman isn't sexism.
There was a time when a challenging and articulate question was welcomed, as well as the back and forth of clarifying the question. Don't be put off by style. This is dialogue. Something we no longer do much of.
We've just completed our General Election in UK and there was plenty of debate on that.
Frank Zappa was a real musician and also really smart: quite unique
Definitely.
Don’t mess with Frank, he was a genius.
Disputed further down in the thread somewhere!
I had Anne Cranny-Francis suggested. She graduated in 1974 in Australia and completed a PhD at the University of East Anglia in 1984. Her subjects revolve around politics and literature. She recently retired as Professor of Cultural Studies at UTS. Photographs of her do not look dissimilar.
G'day Pauline, this comment thread has cost me hours! But not as many hours as it has cost you I bet. I have never seen someone spend so much time responding, well done!
The algorithm brought me here after Frank's interview with Norman Gunston...! I think the folk all claiming Frank was boring, narcissistic, stuck up etc should watch that interview and see him converse with humour as well as respect for the situation. Also the respect he showed when he realised that The Little Bleeder could really blow the harp!
The woman asking the question in this clip reminds me of an old friend of mine who spent 13 years at Sydney uni, earning her phd in clinical psychology. She was quite political - became a singer in a punk band at one stage, but no, Rhonda would of only been early teens in 73. Good luck in your search. Cheers!
It's really nice to get an overview of this thread in a pleasant way and give a suggestion for the mystery woman as well but sadly not the one. I was wondering how people were finding this post, now I know.
Thoughtful questions and thoughtful responses.
How nice. A favourable comment. Thank you.
Sounded like an intelligent conversation to me 🤷
@@Koettnylle yeah 👍
@@Koettnylle Offer me one that is not clickbait.
@@paulinebutcherbird Frank Zappa and Anonymous Student have civil conversation despite differing views! Why can't we talk like this anymore? How's that for a better title?
@@enochlamont877 Actually that is quite good, but it is your copyright to use yourself. I can't change this title after one month but thank you for your response.
@@enochlamont877 Twice I have given a nice reply to this and twice it has disappeared. What is going on?
Q: "Anyone know who she is?"
A: Yes, someone knows.
Maybe, but where are they?
@@paulinebutcherbird You ask hard questions!
@@KingOFuh I would really like to know the answer. Even if she herself didn't come forward, you would think someone would have some clue.
Frank would hate social media with a passion.
@Wayzor_ 🙃maybe, I think he'd run circles around a lot of "content" creators. If he felt like it. Freedom of speach.
I've said for years that we need Frank now, more than ever.
She sounded brilliant.
So did Zappa.
I think they were each impressed by the other.
Yes, I think they were, too. Thanks.
How long did it take her to memorize her pathetic questions? 😂
We miss Frank Zappa.
I honestly think it’s interesting how he acknowledges that the type of music that’s popular can depend every bit as much on who’s consuming it as who’s producing it. Kinda goes against the popular societal narrative of “The Man” being the one who’s merely pushing garbage on people without their consent if you ask me.
@paulinebutcherbird
I imagine it's a two-way effect - the producer tries something out and it sells, so they follow up with something similar on the assumption that that's what people want. Similarly, if the producer tries something out and no one buys it, that brand gets buried.
Reply
@@paulinebutcherbird definitely. Supply-and-demand feedback loop if you will.
@@eeyorehaferbock7870 An economist speaks.
Anything that's fun or popular with a large cohort gets commercialized and promoted until the moneyed interests wring every penny they can out of it or until people get sick of it.
In music there's been a long history of the artists being exploited by the producers managers, record companies, Mickey Hart's dad.
The Kinks did a whole album about that called Lola versus Power Man and the Moneygoround, Part One
I grew up on Frank Zappa was making music and I'd much rather listen to him talking about things then playing music to be honest. That's a compliment to his intelligence
@@charlesandrews2360 If you're more interested in the man, you might be interested in my book that details Frank's home life not found in other books, from getting up to going to bed, composing and rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more. 'Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa, Laurel Canyon, 1968-1971.'
Those were great questions, the gave Zappa a chance to explain his ideas on the music industry.
Well that was the fastest break down of the music business I’ve ever heard.
So, is it correct?
@@paulinebutcherbird spot on.
@@dananthony6258 Thanks. And still applies today?
@@paulinebutcherbird : Ever More-so!!
I think Zappa was very respectful to her because her question was on point.
As a kid growing up in the '50's, Zappa knew that rock/rock and roll did have political revolutionary implications.
Seems like he didn't want to cut to the chase so he could highlight the commercialism of popular music in that time.
Frank was very respectful by nature. When I told him that Brown Shoes Don't Make It was immoral, he debated with me for nearly half an hour. And I agree with your second comment but it would have been better had he answered her question head on.
@paulinebutcherbird in my mind, Zappa was always in tune with sussing out hypocrisy, commercialism impacting art and freedom of expression. Only you and a handful of others would truly know if that's 'correct'.
That sounds correct to me. However. He did seem to have a blind spot on how he treated his wife. But then that is not an uncommon story unfortunately.
The questioner seems either arrogant or daft. Daft because in 1973 rock and roll was still revolutionary. In fact, in three years time punk exploded and gave voice to a huge number of disaffected youth and briefly threatened to turn British society upside down. And I’m not even talking about sex or drugs.
The fact that Zappa chose to address the neutering of rock music by commercialism shows that he was ahead of her, as well as above because he was so polite.
Arrogant because she assumes that a musical dimension to political events is a "Hollywood" invention. It's obvious that she hadn't heard of Giuseppe Verdi's operas being the soundtrack to Italy's _Risorgimento_ or how intensely political and pro-revolutionary Ludwig van Beethoven's music was. I don't know what she thinks of rock music, but she obviously deemed it beneath her. Like Hollywood.
@@Azabaxe80 there have been hundreds of comments on here analysing the exchange between these two, so congratulations for adding a different spin on it.
He was sharp, and he wasn't manipulated or intimidated by people who underestimated him bbecause of his unfair public image. Listening to him here, man, did he ever put these people in their places. He wasn't a perfect human being, not a saint. But he was one of the good ones. I wish he were still here today.
His mental clarity is unrivaled.
I agree.
Zappa was a force of nature; his body of work was a truly superhuman output.
I think Frank went right to the heart of the question. Money/sponsors dictated the music you heard. Life happened and music was written about it. Not the other way around. Political revolution, sex and drugs are a few of many things that inspired the music. Frank supported the young lady's statement.
Ok so 1-2 questions is “ persistently questioned“. Learned something new today
A little sarcasm in there.
Looks like she asks a good question (about a revolution without musical accompaniment) that he doesn't clearly answer except that music can correspond to the mood of a particular audience (and perhaps inspire them?) She's articulate and focused, but seems to be careful in her approach. Nothing bad meant about Zappa, just complementing the woman. Maybe they need a clear definition of "revolution" that they can both address.
Valid point.
@@paulinebutcherbird Thank you.
A more intellectual atmosphere than you would get now.
Are you sure? If Frank Zappa were to appear in a similar format at one of the British or American universities, I think it would be similar.
@@paulinebutcherbird I very much doubt it. The quality of the student body has gone down. Nobody studies properly anymore. The number of semiliterates who get degrees now is disturbing. Having said that, of course elite students still exist. And this highly articulate young woman certainly came into that category, so my comment was aimed more at the mass of students.
I wonder what the woman in the video achieved. I bet she did well.
@@1990-t1j The most promising name offered to me was for an academic - it's somewhere down in this list of comments - she studied also in England and then returned to Australia and taught at universities there. She is now retired,, but someone said they contacted her and although they looked similar, apparently it was a false trail.
@@paulinebutcherbird Interesting. Shame it wasn't her. Thanks for getting back to me, Pauline. Nick
@user-sw2lv3zp6o this is a fairly sad and misinformed view. It's easy to see all the dumb things college kids do today. In the past we were all just as dumb, it was just not as visible. To say nobody studies anymore is narrow-minded and deliberately blind to the commitment many of these youngsters have. If you have doubts, try going to some lectures at a nearby college. This young lady may be in the upper echelon, but I assure you there are many college students doing their best
FZ was one of the most intelligent and articulate of his rock generation. Brian Eno is also a great communicator.
FZ certainly was.
Besides that he was foremost a serious musician, who did more then the occassional pop song.
@@theobolt250 From what I understand he was similar to Captain Beefheart in the sense that he worked outside the pop idiom and arranged highly complex pieces with several tempo changes and unusual chord changes. Did he come from a jazz background?
@@davidc.williams-swanseauk3623 No. He came from a Catholic, lower middle class family in Cucamonga. And the big difference between them was that FZ was an outstanding businessman and managed to make money even though the radio stations refused to play his music. Captain Beefheart had no business skills and was broke most of his life. There are many biographies. Try one by Barry Miles.
@@davidc.williams-swanseauk3623 Of course FZ and Don Van Vliet were High School friends, and FZ produced the Captain Beefheart magnum opus "Trout Mask Replica".
It seemed like a reasonable series of questions and reasonable answers. Zappa was a smart guy, and when he was in a room with smart people he was more than capable of carrying on intellectual conversations.
I think that, too.
He is sorely missed
True. If only he could know that.
I can't imagine a world where many different types of music are available on radio stations, for my entire life it's been the same 50 songs repeated ad nauseum.
In what country do you live?
@@paulinebutcherbird the USA
Are you saying the radio stations today have less variety? Why would you listen to radio today when there is so much stuff you can listen to elsewhere?
Yep. Taylor Swift and Billie Eilish in every goddamn gas station, grocery store, auto body shop, mall, restaurant... it never ends. I honestly wish I could go places where there isn't any music.playing for once. Like just enjoy the silence and then get an earworm of music I actually like at my own discretion.
Why "challenged"?
The question didn't pose any challenge, and I'm not referring to the fact that Zappa was way ahead of most of his peers, nor am I diminishing the question or the person asking it.
It was a very straightforward question that anyone with a fair knowledge of the US music business would answer without breaking a sweat.
So... why "challenged"?
Daddydoom, you are not the first person to question me about the use of the word 'challenge' so I'm going to change it to 'question' and let's see if interest falls off!
It made you comment, so you've answered your own question as to "why": engagement for the algorithm
@@LordVader1094 Which is funny because a lot of presumably older commenters bemoan the "old times" when such intelligent discussion could have taken a place without artificial hype.
@@paulinebutcherbird anything related with Zappa has always its fair share of interest from the get go.
Using tricks to get more people to come is just dishonest.
@@DaddyDoom I'm so flabbergasted by your reply, I'm unable to make further comment.
This is the man that said politics is the entertainment division of the military industrial complex. I think that's a good answer .
I think that's a misquote. It sounds like you've read that misleading book about the miliary being involved in some mysterious way in Laurel Canyon when in fact, the same can be said about any group of people at that time in any city, because the military was the biggest employer so it's unlikely that any family was no drawn into it's murky ways.
@@paulinebutcherbird
I tried to look it it up, sometimes it was 'government', instead of 'politics' but both could be variations of this:
“One of the things my artist friends like to point out is that politics, entertainment, and business are the same thing. Like Frank Zappa said: ‘Politics is the entertainment branch of industry.’ It’s all a big sideshow, all set up to divert your attention from the way corporations are screwing the public.”
- David Collins - (A Small Town for its Size)
Eisenhower was a decent man.
@@DerEchteBold Thanks for doing this. As you've shown, there is no inclusion of the word 'military'.
@@paulinebutcherbird
Thanks, the other line, with 'military-industrial-complex' is listed as a quote of his quite often though.
He speaks like a time traveler
@@slasher1563 he was a time traveler
Zappa always was a bit disregarded by the mainstream industry for the the manner he approached music. He worked out a mix in between contemporary avant-garde and rock. And he was so much aware of the mechanics of everything around him...
Indeed, and the other factor that is so often overlooked is what a brilliant businessman he was. Who else would advertise in comics? And he had no embarrassment in how he gained publicity - for example, in England on their first trip when no one had heard of them, he put on a short dress to reveal hairy legs, together with false boobs and his hair tied in bunches either side of his head to depict a Mother. The photo was all over the front pages of the music papers.
@@paulinebutcherbird Oh... Are you actually the author of the book "Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa"??? (If you are) I just bought it on my kindle and I'm thrilled with, not only with the details on Zappa's personality, but also with the quality and delicious flow of the writing.
Since my 14's that I became a fan of that twisted Zappa sound, later when enrolling to study at my home town's conservatorium of music it impacted me that Zappa was actually fascinated by Edgard Varèse as he was also a very rare orchestra conductor that wouldn't play the piano but the guitar instead... and that was another unexpected door to understand his music. But I totally agree with you on Frank's other dimension that also contributes to his musical universe, his natural curiosity and clear mind of the social mechanics that would reject or accept his work.
It must have been quite a ride to know him at his own backstage :)
Your book is absolute fun to read, and a very smart and amazing human quality approach to the reading of the personality of one of the greatest musicians of the 20th century... :)
Wish Frank was around now. He'd probably have a Sirius XM program on a specialty station.
Don't know what that means, but it sound right.
Frank Zappa IS an intelligent artist with a complete understanding of what he is doing.
Exactly. Kudos to the woman for asking good questions.
@@harrycooper5231 I'm so glad when she gets compliments. If only she could see them!
WAS ????
You notice how civil this was . She asked a question, she wasnt trying to trip him up, she wasn't trying to say "got ya" or anything thing like that she just asked a valid question and he gave a valid answer.
It was that very fact that hooked me on to Frank Zappa when he employed me to take down the lyrics of Absolutely Free when he was in London. I did so but told him I thought the lyrics of Brown Shoes Don't Make It were immoral. He debated with me for nearly half an hour in the same measured way as he does here, and I was knocked out. Long story short, I ended up living and working in his house in Hollywood for three years. Frank encouraged me to write about it and I did, if you're interested.
A time when civility between civilians prevailed.
Frank breaks it down, and it remains consistent….
@@paulinebutcherbird
I want to buy your book.
@@christopherpetersen9956 Ah! That's nice of you,Christopher, and set me smiling, so thank you. It's available on amazon or I can send you a signed copy but if you're in America or elsewhere abroad from UK, postage is more than the cost of the book as I send them 'tracked'.
Not sure how many will recognize the significance today, of both the intellect and clarity of the questions asked and the answers given. In 1973!🙏
you were better then us. we don't deserve you
It looks like some kind of debate or panel discussion with students at a university. I'm sure today's equivalent will be much the same. They sound smart because they are, they're at place for smart people
@alexsetterington3142 "Today's equivalent will be much the same"
Riiiiiight.
What alternate universe do you believe you are in Sparky?
That girl might think Zappa is a real man, but she will be shocked once she realises he's a muffin..
She hung around, until she found that she didn't know nothing...
@@BlondieRUclips She'll hang around 'til she finds out he doesn't know nothin'.
Asking smart questions to a brilliant man.
Agreed.
I've noticed that several of these hate comments are from recently created accounts. I highly encourage people like this to try developing a personality, if possible. Frank has played a huge influence in both my taste in music and societal observations.
It's great that Frank has had that kind of influence on you and you noticed the age of the accounts!
Frank was so well rounded and astute.
No drugs.(Besides the cigarettes that killed him from prostrate cancer, but he eschewed psychedelics and narcotics. Thats why he sounds thoughtful and clear headed.)
@@stefanschleps8758 Bob Marley was high 24/7 and he sounded thoughtful and clearheaded. If one is thoughtful, he will always be thoughtful. If one is stupid, he will be stupid.
Zappa was well aware of the music business environment in general and knew how it functioned. He was on top of everything and didn't take crap from anyone and his answers were always well thought out !
And he was polite.
To me, this does not seem like a case of Zappa being "persistently questioned" and "challenged." To me, this sounds like a reasonable discussion about the state of the music industry and its political relevance.
I agree. A nice exchange though and worth highlighting.
@@paulinebutcherbird I like Frank's interview with Studs Terkel. A nice exchange also.
@@jameschristiansson3137 Link please.
@@paulinebutcherbird Email sent.
@@jameschristiansson3137 Received and replying.
It would have been nice to allow Zappa to continue speaking . They cut him off just when my ears were perking up
Don't mess with Frank. There's a genius lurking under that long hair and mustache.
@@michaelthomas366 he was not infaillible
Most of the comments are out of context. This clip was taken from an hour-long Australian television programme, the central theme of which is to reflect on the relationship between cultural production and social change. The panel members are not arrogant, they are simply people interested in reflecting on the culture of their time, that's all. Full show: ruclips.net/video/wTLOsoMMDuE/видео.htmlsi=N6d8I6ZIkBwKnFJr
Were you in the audience? Do you know anyone who was?
@@paulinebutcherbird Hi Pauline. A lot of people have commented based on what you can see in this clip, which is just a fragment of a program that has a thematic focus. I was just trying to put things into context. I was 10 years old in 1973, and I am South American. I have no idea who that young woman could be. Cheers.
She made a relatively simple question sound very complicated. Frank was clearer with his answers than she was with the question!
Good questions, no challenge. Smart fella. She is , too.
That was a great conversation, man. I expected a typical takedown-style video, but just got a good back-and-forth.
I think so, too. It reminds me of when I first met Frank Zappa and told him that Brown Shoes Don't Make it was immoral. He debated with me in a similar way as here but about the morality of lyrics.
I love this back and forth, both respectful.
Indeed, but it was this very fact about Frank that hooked me on to him when I met him in London in 1967 and took down the lyrics of Absolutely Free. I told him that Brown Shoes Don't Make It was an immoral song and he debated with in a similar way as in this video. Long story short, I ended up living and working in his log cabin in Hollywood and write about the experience in my memoir which details Frank's home life not shown in other books, from getting up to going to bed, composing and rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more. 'Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa, Laurel Canyon 1968-1971.'
Interesting question/comment from the (I think she is) British woman about revolutions having musical accompaniment in light of the fact that this interview is likely before the rise of British punk as the collective voice of British youth's discontent with their future prospects. The Sex Pistols' "No future for you" was as much an economic statement as it was a political one.
Thanks for sharing
Actually, she's an Australian, perhaps a cultured one, because you are not alone in thinking she is English. This exchange took place in 1973 and I believe the Sex Pistols formed in 1975 so your comment is correct.
These kids don't know not to interrupt. How can they get his answer if they won't let him finish
Well, this is an excerpt from an hour-long question and answer, so it tended to get edgy.
they're having a conversation. Look it up--it's something people used to do.
@@greg55666 This comment has been made many times throughout this post that people no longer have conversations. I do find this with our son. He insists he doesn't like phone calls any more and I admit anything longer than five minutes on the phone is as much as I can tolerate, but we still have friends over, have dinner, and meet in restaurants, and we have conversations for two or three hours. Is this unusual?
I went backstage after a Zappa concert in Tallahassee in late 1970. It was at the FSU gym and I just walked in to the dressing room as a deep fan of his music. He was so normal it was almost strange, he sat on a sofa with a Nagra portable tape recorder and a very expensive-looking microphone, taping the goings on probably for future use. I asked him specific questions about specific album tracks and he answered them. If you talked music with Frank he took you seriously. It was politics and other subjects where he tended to go off. His sense of humor was astounding.
What a great story. You were lucky it was 1970, a year before he was knocked off stage in England. After that, it was difficult to get near him as his bodyguard stood in the way.
I'd say she probed him instead of challenged him.
Oh, well.
Very 60's counter culture questions...Frank Zappa just gets cooler the more you know.
If you would like to know more such as Frank's daily life not shown in other books, from getting up to going to bed, composing and rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more, then try 'Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa Laurel Canyon 1968-1971'.
Wow, the comments are wild.
I think he agreed with her, that rock or any kind of music isn't gonna make any revolution. It can facilitate it, but in the end it's just a medium and revolutions are not about any medium but about a conflict.
She was questioning a "holywoodesque" notion that rock music is/will be essential for revolution and he agreed with her saying: "that's not true" (that notion). He then followed it by stating that theams in music/music styles are secondary to the underlying mood of society and become popular because there is already a demand for them.
I wish Frank Zappa could see these comments! Thank you. Again, I can see your reasoning.
@@paulinebutcherbird I think FZ wouldn't think much of this conversation since it is in no way controversial but has a rather mundane conclusions for anyone who knows a little bit about society and culture.
Also, I'm pretty sure he would roll his eyes at people calling him a genius after hearing this exchange, since it's conclusions are not ground breaking. But as one can see in the vid, he wouldn't scoff at it either cause it still has enough nuance to make it somewhat productive.
ps. They seem to be talking a bit past each other, but I put it on the fact thah her first Q is both broad and vague, since "revolutionary implications of rock" or any art is a subject for academic works and I assume that's why he was reluctant to answer it, cause it would turn into a lecture.
As soon as she narrows down her Q he answers it directly and gives rationale for it.
@@papaunderwater3316 Indeed. And it's why I deduced she must be a student or perhaps became an academic, but still we don't know.
Seems like Frank always wanted to make a biting, dead honest comment with his music and was very critical but that was good! I think he was in his way a big hearted person. He strived to be the best he could be and for what he believed in with a tremendous work ethic, the highest artistic standards and he gave lots of opportunites for other musicians to shine. A collaborative artist. Poor Frank - he died too young. Chain smoking probably didnt help. I loved st alfonso’s pancake - father oblivion. But a few of the pure guitar solo ones were so damn magical - like black napkins- and watermelons - that one was so good it still makes me cry. so much feeling! But I also loved jackson five so go figure! This interview was really cool. The lady clearly dug him.
I agree with all of that except I rarely play Water Melon because I'm afraid by doing so, I will dull its magic.
F.V.Z .speaks very respectfully and consideratlely with those less enlightened.
It was exactly that show of respect that Frank gave to me when I said his song, 'Brown Shoes Don't Make It,' was immoral. He debated with me about morality of lyrics for nearly half an hour and I was hooked. In fact, I ended up living and working in his house for three years 1968-1971 and wrote a book, the only one that gives Frank's home life, told from within.
@@paulinebutcherbird thank you for writing that book--I enjoyed it. It was refreshingly different from most of the stuff out there about FZ (and the original Mothers)
@@MikeHarris-nt3xc Thank you, Mike, for reading it and letting me know.
@@paulinebutcherbird incredible! Lucky you!
@@jessesingersongwriter Give you're so literate, why not read it yourself?
That's just what we used to call journalism. You know, standard informed questions on the subject at hand. Something that is lost through most of today's entertainment soaked social lenses. And their short attention spans.
I agree, social media is saturating our minds, but there are still newspapers and journals such as The Economist, and the like.
Full interview
ruclips.net/video/wTLOsoMMDuE/видео.htmlsi=pRUJegA40JJR-htz
The person is Jen Jewel Brown. Source of proof is the footnote (ii) in the Ahmet Zappa interview on the "zappanews" page.
I'm checking this out and will get back to you.
@@paulinebutcherbird The interview from Monday 5th February 2018.
@@stefanmatthias Interview between whom? Between Andrew Greenaway and Ahmet Zappa? I'm waiting to hear from Andrew. I don't think he was referring to this woman in this video in that footnote, because he was the first person to question if it was in fact Jen Jewel Brown on here when I posted this thread and asked if this was Jen Jewel Brown. I have since changed the title.
@@paulinebutcherbird
I'm very much hoping we find out who she was/is.
@@rooruffneck Me, too, but I confess to not understanding why this thread has stimulated so much interest. Is it just to find out who she is/was?
Pete Townshend was once asked a similar long-winded question and replied, "Um..."
I see most of the people here completely misunderstood his statements.
The music reflects the listeners, it is inherently political.
Revolutionaries listen to music.
Perhaps add that some of it is political in essence, where there is none in a song like 'Love Me Do.'
The age old question, does art imitate life or does life imitate art or "politics" in this case.... It's probably a little of both. Like one big snowball.
About sums it up.
See Frank knew about the music business
Possibly his best advice to other musicians was to ensure they get music publishing rights on their compositions. It was one of his main sources of income. One of his
This is an amazing video and I’m so wonderfully glad I saw it! I loved your book Pauline and I’m so glad to have found your presence on here to prove just as fruitful ❤
Zappa was a very intelligent man. Love his music and him.
Agreed. Perhaps you'd like to read more about the man, in particular his home life not found in other books, from getting up to going to bed, composing and rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more. 'Freak Out! My life With Frank Zappa, Laurel Canyon 1968-1971'
Jodie JJ Adams or JJ Adams...she is a rock journalist or was a rock journalist for RAM magazine...finding it hard to locate much about her.
I'm impressed.
One thing missing in his amazing comment/opinion is the spectrum of artist to entertainer. The Osmonds were entertainers more than artists (imo and it's not a judgement nor am I suggesting they were "less than"), and Zappa was an artist more than entertainer. Pop music is full of wonderful artists and entertainers and you can be both (but being successful at both is rarer), but at the end of the day, those same marketers and record companies built some of these acts from the ground up, where others were simply "discovered" fully formed (not meaning they didn't evolved, but just that they already had their voice and look with little or no involvement from the record companies). Nothing wrong with either, though I'll admit I lean towards the artists who can entertain vs. the entertainers who have some artistry. Regardless, they got exposure from the record company machine and all had to deal with them. I think that is what Zappa is saying, though he didn't really answer her questions.
The Osmonds did a great album called Crazy Horses, which proved to be influential in the late Eighties. Paul Gilbert refers to it as a seminal influence. They were a bit more than just teen artists.
@@Hasil2 Spot On! Crazy Horses the song covered by the Alex Harvey Band!
Frank was nothing but honest here, as always.
Frank was singularly, painfully, honest about music. Always. As you say. But he was also capable of not being honest to himself. Especially with regard to his smoking and especially his eventual cancer. Which was likely at least partly due to that habit. No human is without their foibles. And Frank Zappa, as brilliant as he was, was also sometimes frail, and as self-deluded as the rest of us.
Yep. Credit to the woman, good questions.
Frank Zappa displays his enormous intelligence, humor and cool here. Not sure what the point of the questions is, that rock wasn't causing political change? First off, rock started as good time music with a strong back beat, way different from the music of our elders, rebellious and wild. It was a revolution in and of itself. Nearly 7 decades later and it has gone through a lot of iterations, but anyone complaining that it doesn't speak to political ideas missed the 60's I guess, for that notion was everywhere back then, rock was the soundtrack for massive civil rights marches, anti war marches, lots of groups sang passionately about the changes that were needed, Dylan was all over it, and all of that music was on the radio. Sorry, no idea who the young lady is, may her identity be revealed to you. Thanks for the Frank video!
Unspeakable and utterly typical Boomer self-importance, believing that your twatty predilection for rock music had revolutionary political consequences. The men in suits didn't give two shits if 20,000 unwashed Jimi Hendrix aficionados were marching in front of the White House, and it had zero bearing on their decision-making.
@@pruneface90 Zero-bearing on whose decision-making? A pretty hostile response to jesseimpersonal's very measured comment.
That is exactly right. In 1967, Frank himself was commissioned to write a book about the political impact of rock on young Americans, but didn't, in the end write it. Perhaps you should!
Former adjunct music professor here. "Good time music with a strong back beat, way different from the music of our elders, rebellious and wild" could very easily be used to describe swing music of the 1930's. In fact, the drum set patterns that would later infuse rock and roll were invented back then. And even before that the jazz, blues, and "hillbilly" music of the 1920's was considered scandalous because the radio stations weren't supposed to be broadcasting that "vulgar" music. And if anyone doesn't understand that these styles of music were, in fact, political then I'd question their understanding of the topic. Jazz was both a "good time music music with a strong backbeat" and an integral part of the Harlem Renaissance. Hillbilly music was giving voice to the downtrodden white working class and blues was doing the same for the black working class, demographics that were basically considered invisible and inconsequential in polite American society.
@@southtxguitarist8926 Thank you for your comment which, combined with those of others on this thread, is giving me at any rate, a pleasant run-through of music's relationship with politics.
It never ceases to impress me the structure of Frank Zappa mind
Yes, that's what got to me, too, among other things, like his ability to listen and debate.
Nailed it with his response on how radio stations do it.
My favourite musician. Maverick, iconoclastic, virtuoso, always provocative with a brilliant musical mind- there is none like him in the music scene today.
He was a great guitarist for his genre.
He would say your type are shallow and ignorant.
@@USA92 But it would just be his opinion, and quite likely a uniformed one.
Conlan Nancarrow before FZ then after, the people you think are not seen, are. But not in the industry as much. The new ones today are mostly on SM making scenes, it's out of mainstream industry vocabulary. FZ had other genus players are now are teaching kids. Check em out - Tommy Mars as a collage gig guest blew my mind - the kids were on fire! Belew is making waves with bringing more audience from other scenes into maverick music... Stuff is bubbling, dude.
@@USA92 He would not say such a thing. Frank Zappa was polite.
Thanks Pauline! 😊
I hope that means you've seen my correction. So annoyed with myself.
Cool clip. I'm 64 and have studied, taught and performed music for over 40 years. I like Frank Zappa and own a couple of his albums. I even frequented Van Gogh's Ear Lobe in Brisbane during the 90's for Frank Zappa night. I would, however, be interested to know exactly what it is that makes him so special for those that hold him in such high regard. Don't be afraid to get technical.
I'm no expert on Zappa, but I do have 3 degrees in music. Similar to you, I'm 60, and have been a professional musician for over 40 years, I've taught music from middle school to the college level, and I'm always striving to learn more. My take on Zappa is, he was a very talented man, who surrounded himself with very talented musicians. Probably simplistic of me, but that's what it boils down to. Whether rock music or orchestral, he wrote difficult, complicated stuff, and it takes serious work and dedication to perform it well.
@@adude394 He was also able to write lovely tunes. For example, the melody beneath Lucille is beautiful, and even the orchestration of Valley Girl is very impressive. I think it is in this middle field of 'modern' music (60s-90s) he stands out with totally original songs, not love songs, and watching him on RUclips videos, some of his numbers like Montana are brilliantly performed.. Of course there are others in the music scene who are also brilliant, but Frank created a unique niche.
Maybe off topic, but have you ever heard anyone who could enunciate so well! You can understand every syllable of Zappa lyrics . The pronunciation is incredible .
@@paulinebutcherbird He did a lot with two or three chords. Like in "Black Napkins" which I think is just two chords. I might be wrong, but it seems to me that his music could be both complex and simple or segue between both as well.
What makes Frank special? His songwriting was highly original and combined satire with top notch musicianship. He composed outside the boundaries of traditional 'rock' and even went into '20th century classical'. He was smart and had an inquiring mind. He played a musical bicycle on Steve Allen's show for crying. out loud! He couldn't get a record deal, so he produced all his own albums and sold them at concerts. He was a friend of Captain Beefheart's in high school. What about him is NOT special? He composed with lyrics and purely instrumental. He was awesome.
Frank Zappa was a great artist and above all a great mind.