I don't understand the hate on Zappa in these comments. To me, this is a respectful discussion. He treats the questions and questioners respecftully and they do the same with him. They seem to want a particular answer and don't get it, but he does answer the questions in his own way. The questions are sharp and intelligent, but so too the responses. I don't get the desire to dish out on someone whose music one doesn't like. Who cares if you don't like Zappa? That says more about you than him.
This is Jen Jewel Brown, a music journalist from Australia that specifically covered counter culture music. At the time this was recorded she worked for the counter-culture music magazine, Daily Planet. She started working there when she was 19.
I thought it was Jen Jewel Brown too and originally posted this thread saying so, but she has come on either here or on my FB page saying it is not her! Why did you think it was her?
@@paulinebutcherbird The year this was filmed, her appearance, and the fact her question is centered around counter-culture music. Another person suggested Lillian Roxon, however she had shorter hair, and I believe she had already passed away before this interview was filmed. Lillian Roxon was 40 in 73, and passed away August 11th. This woman looks fairly young, which was another reason I thought it was Jen Jewel Brown.
@@My-Name-Isnt-Important Certainly it was on this trip to Australia that Frank met Jen Brown which is why I made the wrong conclusion. I agree with you about Lillian Roxon. Baffling as to why no one who knew this woman personally has not come forward. Are they all dead? 🫤
Whoever she is/was, she seems intelligent enough to at least have a conversation w/ Frank, which is a lot more than you can say about the idiots on that Senate committee associated w/ the Parents Music Research Council who Frank just BLISTERED.
@@mcjazzer As was my own experience when I first met Frank and said that Brown Shoes Don't Make It was immoral. He debated with me on the issue of the morality of lyrics for nearly half an hour. That was my 'in'.
It was this very aspect of Frank Zappa that hooked me on to him when I met him in London in 1967 and told him that Brown Shoes Don't Make It was immoral. We had a discussion about the morality of lyrics for nearly half an hour very much in the way it occurs in this video.
I’m not clear why so many comments on here infer that people 50 years ago were more coherent or intelligent than now. It is not my experience. Could it be that, through the internet, people with less intellect now have a voice that was absent way back then.
Nostalgia bais and sense of supetiority play the greater role in their statement. And, your point is also correct, to a degree. It may also be asserted that we want small bites now. Example: Headlines are enough. There is no need to read the article itself. We want rapid units of information, then we move on to the next. This is why we see young people riding a bike whilst texting or posting to Facebook. They're taking in multiple streams of data in small units. Old people are dead to the modern world just as old people in the 1960s were dead to that period. Same, same.
today we have more extremes: the factory of stupidity and decadence that is TikTok, and the long-form and in-depth podcasts (Lex Friedman) where the interview lasts even more than 2 or 3 hours
I'm not a big fan of Zappa's music however you can't help but respect the guy. He was an articulate intelligent man who has left behind an enormous body of work.
I understand. His music is not the easiest to get one's feelings round. Out of the huge catalogue, I find brilliance, but it is sketchy. I think this applies to most artists.
That female student has a good point. Generations have been persitently fed with the idea of the rock music as some sort of revolutionary rebel enclave. She is rightfully questioning that mainstream narrative.
We don’t even see stuff like this on TV anymore. It’s like we’ve regressed as a society. We’ve rewarded stupidity, and an almost shock factor to what we consider entertainment and news. This will be the end of any type of media we have.
@@paulinebutcherbird - on British TV? Not with pop or rock artists. I’ve got loads of interviews with bands like Pink Floyd and others from the 60s-70s and they actually talk about world events, philosophy. No one does that anymore, it’s generally a surprise if a band write their own songs.
@@dukeon True, I was thinking outside the music field. I'm totally out of step with today's music and how it works. Your comment is an education! thank you.
The woman's opening question -- whether Zappa can ascribe and political revolutionary implications to rock -- is a serious question that provokes a serious discussion. Zappa gives an interesting answer, which basically implies that corporate radio is focused on profits and thus always caters to the interests of their sponsors. But he doesn't really answer the woman's question directly. He simply implies that corporate radio stifles whatever "political revolutionary" potential rock might have. I think Zappa is one of the smartest and politically most interesting artists in the history of rock, but his answer here is not one of his best moments, especially when one recalls that in 1973 lots of folks where getting their rock radio music from college radio stations, which could be quite radical and which were not beholden to corporate interests. My sense is that the women is scratching her head at the end because Zappa has sidestepped her question. The short answer to her question is: no, you can't really ascribe political revolutionary implications to rock, but it can and it has had political-cultural significance and relevance. Zappa's answer points in that direction.
I think it depends on what is meant by "implications." If you mean, "is rock and roll the cause of political revolutions?," then no, not really. But if you mean to ask whether rock reflects revolutionary politics, or if it contributes to them, then yes, absolutely.
She had good questions. Frank had good answers. Interesting discussion, which answers the general question "Why is there so much crap on the radio/TV/Internet?"
The entire show is on youtube and I find the debate herein sober and serious - and Zappa seems to appreciate the high level of conversation and gives straight answers to straight questions. This is Zappa when NOT being asked silly questions :-)
Frank was not only ahead of his time musically, he was an insightful intellectual who understood the real politics behind the business - and the world in general.
@@ButternoteBackingTracks I agree. However, "His music was crap though" comes across as a declaration of fact rather opinion. "I don't like his music, though" is an opinion.
some comments here about the young woman , but Frank wasn't one to suffer fools gladly, he gave a very thoughtful answer to her question , he obviously thought it was a valid question and not confrontational like some posters on here think.
didn't do drugs either. An unusually strong personality.... who knows why? you just get these strong bright people once in a while (thank God) Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull is another with the same kind of razor sharp intellect.
Somebody else in this comments section described how Frank “addressed a political question with an economic answer.” I think that’s exactly the kind of rhetorical reframing the journalist was trying to call out-the question of whether music has a place in politics outside of its branding as *revolutionary, for-the-people “political” music.* People who stand by Frank’s response without seeing the ideological position he’s coming from-a sort of populist libertarianism-aren’t picking up that nuance in her question. He answered like she expected, but did not want, him to. That’s where the tension is coming from. She asks whether it’s appropriate to think about politics in terms of "vote with your dollar" pseudo-economics, given that the concept of “revolutionary rock-n-roll” was already a massive market at the time. We might ask, “are the people determining the economy here, or is the economy determining the people?” And he simply tells her that what the people want is revolution, without himself asking whether the kind of revolution they’re demanding is one they’ve already bought. One they’ve seen before in their Hollywood blockbusters. One they’ve heard before in their record stores. Thanks for posting this video. It’s a very telling exchange. It reminds me of the movie “Network”, in a way-a story about the media’s commodification of the phrase “I’m mad as hell, and I’m not going to take it anymore!”
I'm fascinated by the varied comments on this thread that analyse the exchange between Frank and this unknown woman in so many different ways. And here you come with another different way of seeing it, which I find compelling.
Most people weren't interested in revolution that listened to rock n roll or even groups like the Beatles. They just wanted to party and give the middle finger to adults. Nothing more especially by 1973. Alice Cooper already had a hit with School's Out, a song that has lyrics about blowing up schools. No one took that seriously. No kids attempted to do that " inspired" by the song. The people that liked the song just wanted to smoke pot and be rebellious not revolutionaries. She seems like she would be inspired to political violence through music or a political movement on campus like the college students obsessed with Palestine today. While the normal ones are just wanting to get an education to make money.
@@lk3309 Gracious, I agree with your first analysis up to, 'She seems like . . . ' I personally pull back from stating what college students want and disagree with that last statement.
I'm old enough to remember when it wasn't unusual to find such intelligent conversations on TV shows, no need for flashing lights, funny voices, or scripts written in baby talk by marketing teams. Whether or not one agrees with any of the speakers, it's a show by grownups made for grownups. Yeah, there was lots of garbage TV in those days as well, but where today in the open cultural sewer that TV has become would you even find something like this? I'm glad at least some memories of this time are being preserved online.
This is the weirdest comment section I've seen in a while. Like, that is a very standard exchange between *humans* Is there a tension I'm missing? Or are yall just mad at the girl for reasons you should probably go to therapy over?
Clearly a very intelligent and well spoken guy. Not to mention ahead of his time. Even though it’s over 50 years old, his way of speaking feels contemporary to the modern day.
If you are interested in the man, you may like to read a memoir that details Frank's home life not shown in other books, from getting up to going to bed, composing and rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more. 'Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa, Laurel Canyon, 1968-1971'.
Lots of weird pointless sexism in these comments. Why is it that any time a woman even slightly pushes back against a celebrity, everyone’s gotta belittle her? She seems like a normal, friendly person.
A woman's role in a patriarchal society is to be subservient and passive towards men. If a woman pushes back in the slightest way, she threatens the societal order that benefits these men by not behaving the way she is expected to, and when other women see that there is no reason they should be treated worse than men across the board when they can do anything a man can just as good they might catch on to how patriarchy should be abolished. so they have to put her back in her place by intellectually degrading her. Where you see an exchange of wits, they see a man "pwning an uppity woman epic style" cause they're empty conduits of sexism.
@@tonirasic1728 I see women holding their own in many areas today, in the judiciary, in politics, in medicine, etc. But it is true, given two women a week are tragically killed in the UK by their partners, there is still a long way to go.
@@tonirasic1728Das war genau der falsche Gegner, den sie für das verantwortlich zu machen versucht, was ihr von anderen zugefügt wurde. Aber HIER kann sie glänzen: DARAUF kommt es ihr an!
I think Zappa was very respectful to her because her question was on point. As a kid growing up in the '50's, Zappa knew that rock/rock and roll did have political revolutionary implications. Seems like he didn't want to cut to the chase so he could highlight the commercialism of popular music in that time.
Frank was very respectful by nature. When I told him that Brown Shoes Don't Make It was immoral, he debated with me for nearly half an hour. And I agree with your second comment but it would have been better had he answered her question head on.
@paulinebutcherbird in my mind, Zappa was always in tune with sussing out hypocrisy, commercialism impacting art and freedom of expression. Only you and a handful of others would truly know if that's 'correct'.
The questioner seems either arrogant or daft. Daft because in 1973 rock and roll was still revolutionary. In fact, in three years time punk exploded and gave voice to a huge number of disaffected youth and briefly threatened to turn British society upside down. And I’m not even talking about sex or drugs. The fact that Zappa chose to address the neutering of rock music by commercialism shows that he was ahead of her, as well as above because he was so polite. Arrogant because she assumes that a musical dimension to political events is a "Hollywood" invention. It's obvious that she hadn't heard of Giuseppe Verdi's operas being the soundtrack to Italy's _Risorgimento_ or how intensely political and pro-revolutionary Ludwig van Beethoven's music was. I don't know what she thinks of rock music, but she obviously deemed it beneath her. Like Hollywood.
@@Azabaxe80 there have been hundreds of comments on here analysing the exchange between these two, so congratulations for adding a different spin on it.
I think Frank went right to the heart of the question. Money/sponsors dictated the music you heard. Life happened and music was written about it. Not the other way around. Political revolution, sex and drugs are a few of many things that inspired the music. Frank supported the young lady's statement.
Hey, this is crazy but that is my grandmother, she passed away during the pandemic unfortunately, but she was always very outspoken about her love of rock and has shared that love with me. I know she’s in a better place but I still miss her so much
If this is so, that is wonderful news, but I do need some evidence. Would you send me photographs to my e-mail address: paulineharrisonbird@gmail.com and in the subject column, state 'who is she?' A name would be helpful too.
G'day Pauline, this comment thread has cost me hours! But not as many hours as it has cost you I bet. I have never seen someone spend so much time responding, well done! The algorithm brought me here after Frank's interview with Norman Gunston...! I think the folk all claiming Frank was boring, narcissistic, stuck up etc should watch that interview and see him converse with humour as well as respect for the situation. Also the respect he showed when he realised that The Little Bleeder could really blow the harp! The woman asking the question in this clip reminds me of an old friend of mine who spent 13 years at Sydney uni, earning her phd in clinical psychology. She was quite political - became a singer in a punk band at one stage, but no, Rhonda would of only been early teens in 73. Good luck in your search. Cheers!
It's really nice to get an overview of this thread in a pleasant way and give a suggestion for the mystery woman as well but sadly not the one. I was wondering how people were finding this post, now I know.
Rock and roll is about feeling though. Who cares about the intellect side of things? Maybe he should have been a scientist of some sort. A chemist maybe.🤷
I had Anne Cranny-Francis suggested. She graduated in 1974 in Australia and completed a PhD at the University of East Anglia in 1984. Her subjects revolve around politics and literature. She recently retired as Professor of Cultural Studies at UTS. Photographs of her do not look dissimilar.
There was a time when a challenging and articulate question was welcomed, as well as the back and forth of clarifying the question. Don't be put off by style. This is dialogue. Something we no longer do much of.
He was sharp, and he wasn't manipulated or intimidated by people who underestimated him bbecause of his unfair public image. Listening to him here, man, did he ever put these people in their places. He wasn't a perfect human being, not a saint. But he was one of the good ones. I wish he were still here today.
Most extremely intelligent people are highly aware that the vast majority of what we perceive as the truth is subjective. It's never about changing the opinion of the one you debate, it's about making strong points, reflecting on other's arguments, and perhaps learning from one another.
@@SillyGoose2024Well he did have the temarity to call out coming fascist theocracy in the USA in the 80s. Here we are 40 yrs later going down that road.
I haven't the foggiest. But there is something interesting about her. She is articulate and self confident without being fawning or pretentious in a way we rarely see in young people now, over a half century later. It's also interesting that Zappa actually doesn't directly address the questions she asks, but rather bends it towards his own reflections on corporate music distribution and the public zeitgeist. He's more interested in telling the audience what he thinks they need to know. A more interesting speculation would be to imagine what a conversation between Zappa and this young lady would have been like if it were just the two of them without the audience.
Ha ha. Most certainly it would be an interesting speculation to consider what this conversation would have been like without an audience. But in fact, I doubt it would have been much different because Frank had arrived at this event with a woman on his arm whom he took with him to europe on the rest of the tour and then on to his home in Los Angeles.!
Frank is right that this art is the byproduct of a system of wealth extraction. When art is the goal it’s a wildly different outcome. She is right to ask the question and I wish the two of them hadn’t been interrupted.
Oh god here we go again. All these music videos inevitably get comments to the effect that "times used to be amazing, they suck now." Tedious and false.
_pretty impressed with Zappa though. Calm and insightful_ This has always been my observation as well. Sometimes I don't understand him, but he was clearly a very pensive person.
@@BS-vx8dg Indeed. An insight into Frank's character and how he was at home, (not shown in other books) from getting up to going to bed, composing and rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more, can be found in 'Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa, Laurel Canyon, 1968-1971'.
@@paulinebutcherbird "always" is a weird thing to add. Now i ask my self if he realy was like that XD but i get the sentiment and appreciate the charitable stance.
Guys, if this made you angry, ya'll need to go take a class on rhetoric. Speech is persuasive when you use more than pure literalism in your language. It's fine if you disagree with her, but the point was valid. I don't think she is *literally* saying she doesn't understand that music can be political, she is saying Rock should not be stand in for actual political discourse. At that point Hollywood was already a large force for propaganda, especially at that time when it was enforcing conservative perspectives. To his point that would change as the audiences changed, because of money. To her point, politics today is *largely* obscured behind vapid infotainment, celebrity worship, and media based propaganda. They were both making very good points here which is proved out by history. If you felt this was a hollow statement and she's a pseudo-intellectual... well, maybe it's going over your head.
@@paulinebutcherbird you posted an out of context clip where we have no idea what’s going on. Of course people are going to interpret it different ways
I think so, too. It reminds me of when I first met Frank Zappa and told him that Brown Shoes Don't Make it was immoral. He debated with me in a similar way as here but about the morality of lyrics.
I honestly think it’s interesting how he acknowledges that the type of music that’s popular can depend every bit as much on who’s consuming it as who’s producing it. Kinda goes against the popular societal narrative of “The Man” being the one who’s merely pushing garbage on people without their consent if you ask me.
@paulinebutcherbird I imagine it's a two-way effect - the producer tries something out and it sells, so they follow up with something similar on the assumption that that's what people want. Similarly, if the producer tries something out and no one buys it, that brand gets buried. Reply
Anything that's fun or popular with a large cohort gets commercialized and promoted until the moneyed interests wring every penny they can out of it or until people get sick of it. In music there's been a long history of the artists being exploited by the producers managers, record companies, Mickey Hart's dad. The Kinks did a whole album about that called Lola versus Power Man and the Moneygoround, Part One I grew up on Frank Zappa was making music and I'd much rather listen to him talking about things then playing music to be honest. That's a compliment to his intelligence
@@charlesandrews2360 If you're more interested in the man, you might be interested in my book that details Frank's home life not found in other books, from getting up to going to bed, composing and rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more. 'Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa, Laurel Canyon, 1968-1971.'
@@theobolt250 From what I understand he was similar to Captain Beefheart in the sense that he worked outside the pop idiom and arranged highly complex pieces with several tempo changes and unusual chord changes. Did he come from a jazz background?
@@davidc.williams-swanseauk3623 No. He came from a Catholic, lower middle class family in Cucamonga. And the big difference between them was that FZ was an outstanding businessman and managed to make money even though the radio stations refused to play his music. Captain Beefheart had no business skills and was broke most of his life. There are many biographies. Try one by Barry Miles.
@@davidc.williams-swanseauk3623 Of course FZ and Don Van Vliet were High School friends, and FZ produced the Captain Beefheart magnum opus "Trout Mask Replica".
I went backstage after a Zappa concert in Tallahassee in late 1970. It was at the FSU gym and I just walked in to the dressing room as a deep fan of his music. He was so normal it was almost strange, he sat on a sofa with a Nagra portable tape recorder and a very expensive-looking microphone, taping the goings on probably for future use. I asked him specific questions about specific album tracks and he answered them. If you talked music with Frank he took you seriously. It was politics and other subjects where he tended to go off. His sense of humor was astounding.
What a great story. You were lucky it was 1970, a year before he was knocked off stage in England. After that, it was difficult to get near him as his bodyguard stood in the way.
Why "challenged"? The question didn't pose any challenge, and I'm not referring to the fact that Zappa was way ahead of most of his peers, nor am I diminishing the question or the person asking it. It was a very straightforward question that anyone with a fair knowledge of the US music business would answer without breaking a sweat. So... why "challenged"?
Daddydoom, you are not the first person to question me about the use of the word 'challenge' so I'm going to change it to 'question' and let's see if interest falls off!
@@LordVader1094 Which is funny because a lot of presumably older commenters bemoan the "old times" when such intelligent discussion could have taken a place without artificial hype.
@@paulinebutcherbird anything related with Zappa has always its fair share of interest from the get go. Using tricks to get more people to come is just dishonest.
I think that's a misquote. It sounds like you've read that misleading book about the miliary being involved in some mysterious way in Laurel Canyon when in fact, the same can be said about any group of people at that time in any city, because the military was the biggest employer so it's unlikely that any family was no drawn into it's murky ways.
@@paulinebutcherbird I tried to look it it up, sometimes it was 'government', instead of 'politics' but both could be variations of this: “One of the things my artist friends like to point out is that politics, entertainment, and business are the same thing. Like Frank Zappa said: ‘Politics is the entertainment branch of industry.’ It’s all a big sideshow, all set up to divert your attention from the way corporations are screwing the public.” - David Collins - (A Small Town for its Size)
It seemed like a reasonable series of questions and reasonable answers. Zappa was a smart guy, and when he was in a room with smart people he was more than capable of carrying on intellectual conversations.
@@paulinebutcherbird Frank Zappa and Anonymous Student have civil conversation despite differing views! Why can't we talk like this anymore? How's that for a better title?
@@enochlamont877 Actually that is quite good, but it is your copyright to use yourself. I can't change this title after one month but thank you for your response.
This is a great conversation and a fine example of how complex ideas can be made accessible through clear, straightforward language. Zappa, in his own way, shines brilliantly here. I can't help but notice, though, a hint of Euro-British arrogance in the attempt to portray North Americans as lacking culture-a view of the U.S. that many Europeans often share. Frank responds with simple, elegant language, pointing out the diversity in American music across stations and challenging her vague generalizations about U.S. musical tastes. It’s worth noting that the Brits, too, were listening to their share of frivolous music, like Lulu, and other silly things, just as people were everywhere else in the world though the Brits somehow seemed to think that their educational system is superior. I know very little about Zappa, and I would like to know less, but he is brilliant here.
"I know very little about Zappa, and I would like to know less, but he is brilliant here." Why would you like to know less exactly? Is there logic behind that saying or is it just something you threw out there to sound quirky without making any sense?
It looks like some kind of debate or panel discussion with students at a university. I'm sure today's equivalent will be much the same. They sound smart because they are, they're at place for smart people
Wow, the comments are wild. I think he agreed with her, that rock or any kind of music isn't gonna make any revolution. It can facilitate it, but in the end it's just a medium and revolutions are not about any medium but about a conflict. She was questioning a "holywoodesque" notion that rock music is/will be essential for revolution and he agreed with her saying: "that's not true" (that notion). He then followed it by stating that theams in music/music styles are secondary to the underlying mood of society and become popular because there is already a demand for them.
@@paulinebutcherbird I think FZ wouldn't think much of this conversation since it is in no way controversial but has a rather mundane conclusions for anyone who knows a little bit about society and culture. Also, I'm pretty sure he would roll his eyes at people calling him a genius after hearing this exchange, since it's conclusions are not ground breaking. But as one can see in the vid, he wouldn't scoff at it either cause it still has enough nuance to make it somewhat productive. ps. They seem to be talking a bit past each other, but I put it on the fact thah her first Q is both broad and vague, since "revolutionary implications of rock" or any art is a subject for academic works and I assume that's why he was reluctant to answer it, cause it would turn into a lecture. As soon as she narrows down her Q he answers it directly and gives rationale for it.
I can't imagine a world where many different types of music are available on radio stations, for my entire life it's been the same 50 songs repeated ad nauseum.
Are you saying the radio stations today have less variety? Why would you listen to radio today when there is so much stuff you can listen to elsewhere?
Yep. Taylor Swift and Billie Eilish in every goddamn gas station, grocery store, auto body shop, mall, restaurant... it never ends. I honestly wish I could go places where there isn't any music.playing for once. Like just enjoy the silence and then get an earworm of music I actually like at my own discretion.
Zappa always was a bit disregarded by the mainstream industry for the the manner he approached music. He worked out a mix in between contemporary avant-garde and rock. And he was so much aware of the mechanics of everything around him...
Indeed, and the other factor that is so often overlooked is what a brilliant businessman he was. Who else would advertise in comics? And he had no embarrassment in how he gained publicity - for example, in England on their first trip when no one had heard of them, he put on a short dress to reveal hairy legs, together with false boobs and his hair tied in bunches either side of his head to depict a Mother. The photo was all over the front pages of the music papers.
@@paulinebutcherbird Oh... Are you actually the author of the book "Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa"??? (If you are) I just bought it on my kindle and I'm thrilled with, not only with the details on Zappa's personality, but also with the quality and delicious flow of the writing. Since my 14's that I became a fan of that twisted Zappa sound, later when enrolling to study at my home town's conservatorium of music it impacted me that Zappa was actually fascinated by Edgard Varèse as he was also a very rare orchestra conductor that wouldn't play the piano but the guitar instead... and that was another unexpected door to understand his music. But I totally agree with you on Frank's other dimension that also contributes to his musical universe, his natural curiosity and clear mind of the social mechanics that would reject or accept his work. It must have been quite a ride to know him at his own backstage :) Your book is absolute fun to read, and a very smart and amazing human quality approach to the reading of the personality of one of the greatest musicians of the 20th century... :)
Looks like she asks a good question (about a revolution without musical accompaniment) that he doesn't clearly answer except that music can correspond to the mood of a particular audience (and perhaps inspire them?) She's articulate and focused, but seems to be careful in her approach. Nothing bad meant about Zappa, just complementing the woman. Maybe they need a clear definition of "revolution" that they can both address.
When I started this post, I had no idea what click bait title meant, but several people made the same comment when I originally titled it, 'Frank is challenged by a female student' and I had an avalanche of protests so changed it to persistently questioned which, despite your protest, I stand by. She does persistently question him, interrupting his answer to the other guy.
@@paulinebutcherbirdI have no idea how your video title is a problem. The label matches the contents. Thank for not posting a clickbait title. Thank you for posting. It was very interesting.
No drugs.(Besides the cigarettes that killed him from prostrate cancer, but he eschewed psychedelics and narcotics. Thats why he sounds thoughtful and clear headed.)
@@stefanschleps8758 Bob Marley was high 24/7 and he sounded thoughtful and clearheaded. If one is thoughtful, he will always be thoughtful. If one is stupid, he will be stupid.
Most of the comments are out of context. This clip was taken from an hour-long Australian television programme, the central theme of which is to reflect on the relationship between cultural production and social change. The panel members are not arrogant, they are simply people interested in reflecting on the culture of their time, that's all. Full show: ruclips.net/video/wTLOsoMMDuE/видео.htmlsi=N6d8I6ZIkBwKnFJr
@@paulinebutcherbird Hi Pauline. A lot of people have commented based on what you can see in this clip, which is just a fragment of a program that has a thematic focus. I was just trying to put things into context. I was 10 years old in 1973, and I am South American. I have no idea who that young woman could be. Cheers.
To me, this does not seem like a case of Zappa being "persistently questioned" and "challenged." To me, this sounds like a reasonable discussion about the state of the music industry and its political relevance.
I've noticed that several of these hate comments are from recently created accounts. I highly encourage people like this to try developing a personality, if possible. Frank has played a huge influence in both my taste in music and societal observations.
Interesting question/comment from the (I think she is) British woman about revolutions having musical accompaniment in light of the fact that this interview is likely before the rise of British punk as the collective voice of British youth's discontent with their future prospects. The Sex Pistols' "No future for you" was as much an economic statement as it was a political one. Thanks for sharing
Actually, she's an Australian, perhaps a cultured one, because you are not alone in thinking she is English. This exchange took place in 1973 and I believe the Sex Pistols formed in 1975 so your comment is correct.
Zappa was well aware of the music business environment in general and knew how it functioned. He was on top of everything and didn't take crap from anyone and his answers were always well thought out !
That's true and your comment made me laugh for its accuracy. Even when he praised one of the albums, I forget which one, he said he liked it because it was so well engineered and produced!
Which seems more like a sibling rivalry to me than a true slight. I have no doubt most of The Beatles early efforts had little appeal to Zappa, but there's no question they rapidly changed to more compelling fodder mid-career and were just as quickly over before any of them had even reached 30. Their musical legacy became set in stone at that point. Meanwhile, most of Zappa's musical contributions garnered only a fraction of praise while being significantly more difficult to achieve.
I have always admired Zappa's mind and his eloquence, just as much as I detested his music. It's a free country when it comes to likes and dislikes - and I'm sure Zappa understand that better than anyone, and was probably pretty cool with it.
If you are interested in Zappa's mind rather than his music, you might like a memoir that gives his home life when he was first famous, not shown in other books, from getting up to going to bed, composing and rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more. 'Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa, Laurel Canyon, 1968-1971.' A Christmas present, perhaps?
That's just what we used to call journalism. You know, standard informed questions on the subject at hand. Something that is lost through most of today's entertainment soaked social lenses. And their short attention spans.
some of the responses below regarding the questions that woman was asking are a bit over critical I think. Remember, this is 1973 . The US had has a decade-DECADE of very political music, beginning in the early 60's with Pete Seeger and early Dylan, and the late 60's, which had lots of anti-war anthems in response to the Vietnam war. This young woman is clearly skeptical of the notion that music has any real political impact and in fact, seems to think that perhaps it doesn't. In some ways she's asking a question that she already knows the answer to but is wondering about his opinion. He, actually does not answer it and goes into a fairly long explanation of how radio is impacted by the bottom line. To be fair, he's cut off quite a lot and so doesn't get to express his position clearly. But to me, her question is an interesting one. I would be curious also to know what happened to her. I mean, she'd be in her 70's now. May not even be aware this is on the internet.
Answering backwards, given RUclips didn't start until 2005, she would already have been in her 50s and perhaps not too interested. Still, I am surprised that no one in that audience has come forward to say, I was there. I agree with you that Frank doesn't answer the question, but to be fair the questions slides as the discussion goes on. Re political songs, what about Willie Guthrie's This Land is Your Land from the 1940s and others from earlier including slave songs. In Europe there must have been political songs since time began.
@@MichaelMiner-k8b Her questions were smug rehearsed attempts at coming off as a humanities student turned intellectual. That's why he has to give basic responses.
The audience & students come off glib + arrogant, it's frustrating to see when Zappa is giving a genuine and thoughtful response to a (Frankly) vague & loaded question. They seem more inclined toward intellectual pissing contests rather than grounded discussion.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
I don't understand the hate on Zappa in these comments. To me, this is a respectful discussion. He treats the questions and questioners respecftully and they do the same with him. They seem to want a particular answer and don't get it, but he does answer the questions in his own way. The questions are sharp and intelligent, but so too the responses. I don't get the desire to dish out on someone whose music one doesn't like. Who cares if you don't like Zappa? That says more about you than him.
Thank you for your nice comment. Agreed on all counts.
I love Zappa
@@Miguel...160 Tell me your favourite piece or song.
@@paulinebutcherbird way too many , but i have a Fender Strat with wammy bar 🎸☺️
@@Miguel...160 Nice.
This is Jen Jewel Brown, a music journalist from Australia that specifically covered counter culture music. At the time this was recorded she worked for the counter-culture music magazine, Daily Planet. She started working there when she was 19.
I thought it was Jen Jewel Brown too and originally posted this thread saying so, but she has come on either here or on my FB page saying it is not her! Why did you think it was her?
@@paulinebutcherbird The year this was filmed, her appearance, and the fact her question is centered around counter-culture music.
Another person suggested Lillian Roxon, however she had shorter hair, and I believe she had already passed away before this interview was filmed. Lillian Roxon was 40 in 73, and passed away August 11th.
This woman looks fairly young, which was another reason I thought it was Jen Jewel Brown.
@@My-Name-Isnt-Important Certainly it was on this trip to Australia that Frank met Jen Brown which is why I made the wrong conclusion. I agree with you about Lillian Roxon. Baffling as to why no one who knew this woman personally has not come forward. Are they all dead? 🫤
Whoever she is/was, she seems intelligent enough to at least have a conversation w/ Frank, which is a lot more than you can say about the idiots on that Senate committee associated w/ the Parents Music Research Council who Frank just BLISTERED.
@@mcjazzer As was my own experience when I first met Frank and said that Brown Shoes Don't Make It was immoral. He debated with me on the issue of the morality of lyrics for nearly half an hour. That was my 'in'.
They actually had a very relevant conversation, even today, in a much calmer tone than people do today.
Politics is a blood sport now. We are spinning down the toilet.
Frank's response was always quiet and measured.
Women didn't take as many psychotrauma drugs back then.
@@apollomemories7399 Gracious, how do you know that?
@@paulinebutcherbird Basic arithmetic. Fewer women went to psychiatrists. Most women used self-medication with alcohol.
Love how patient he is and how interested he is in answering the question thoughtfully
It was this very aspect of Frank Zappa that hooked me on to him when I met him in London in 1967 and told him that Brown Shoes Don't Make It was immoral. We had a discussion about the morality of lyrics for nearly half an hour very much in the way it occurs in this video.
@@paulinebutcherbird You're a legend.
@@stefanschleps8758 Thank you, Stefan, but I'm not sure with whom! Do you plan to get Moon's book?
She really only asked one question and then conversed. Zappa looked like he was enjoying himself in intelligent company.
I think so too. I turned the sound off and watched their facial expressions and they seem on the same page.
because he could speak at length?
@@renegadedalek5528 Not really sure what you mean.
@@alancumming6407 I've given what I think is the answer above. Hope you don't mind the intrusion.
@@paulinebutcherbird No, that's fine Pauline.
Ah, back when the average person on TV could actually string a half coherent sentence together
I’m not clear why so many comments on here infer that people 50 years ago were more coherent or intelligent than now. It is not my experience. Could it be that, through the internet, people with less intellect now have a voice that was absent way back then.
The key word being "on TV". As Pauline says the average person is as dumb as ever! Even if she was a little nicer about it
Nostalgia bais and sense of supetiority play the greater role in their statement.
And, your point is also correct, to a degree. It may also be asserted that we want small bites now.
Example: Headlines are enough. There is no need to read the article itself. We want rapid units of information, then we move on to the next. This is why we see young people riding a bike whilst texting or posting to Facebook. They're taking in multiple streams of data in small units. Old people are dead to the modern world just as old people in the 1960s were dead to that period. Same, same.
today we have more extremes: the factory of stupidity and decadence that is TikTok, and the long-form and in-depth podcasts (Lex Friedman) where the interview lasts even more than 2 or 3 hours
I'm not a big fan of Zappa's music however you can't help but respect the guy. He was an articulate intelligent man who has left behind an enormous body of work.
I understand. His music is not the easiest to get one's feelings round. Out of the huge catalogue, I find brilliance, but it is sketchy. I think this applies to most artists.
She asked him about politics, and he responded with economics. Guy cut to the heart of the matter: marketing product.
Hence the move to more independent radio stations in 68
He's an American. In the US politics is a sub-set of economics.
That female student has a good point. Generations have been persitently fed with the idea of the rock music as some sort of revolutionary rebel enclave. She is rightfully questioning that mainstream narrative.
Thank you. I'm glad you see their exchange in that way.
As the so called "revolutionary" 60's artists have aged, they have shown they were not very invested in those beliefs at all. Very few exceptions.
no regular person who was into music back then thought about that crap! A few fringe narcissists and wannave elites maybe, but not normal folks
I think he appreciated her intelligence. Zappa was an articulate, formidable interviewee.
Agreed.
@@paulinebutcherbird You love a bad musician with no relevant songs. We get it. Just dont think people care.
@@marksienicki1253 Who is the 'we' in your comment?
We don’t even see stuff like this on TV anymore. It’s like we’ve regressed as a society. We’ve rewarded stupidity, and an almost shock factor to what we consider entertainment and news. This will be the end of any type of media we have.
We do have stuff like this on British TV, but on social media, certainly it is rare, so in general I'm in accord with you.
@@paulinebutcherbird - on British TV? Not with pop or rock artists. I’ve got loads of interviews with bands like Pink Floyd and others from the 60s-70s and they actually talk about world events, philosophy. No one does that anymore, it’s generally a surprise if a band write their own songs.
@@dukeon True, I was thinking outside the music field. I'm totally out of step with today's music and how it works. Your comment is an education! thank you.
We entertain now, we do not inform.
Books. Always and forever.
The woman's opening question -- whether Zappa can ascribe and political revolutionary implications to rock -- is a serious question that provokes a serious discussion. Zappa gives an interesting answer, which basically implies that corporate radio is focused on profits and thus always caters to the interests of their sponsors. But he doesn't really answer the woman's question directly. He simply implies that corporate radio stifles whatever "political revolutionary" potential rock might have. I think Zappa is one of the smartest and politically most interesting artists in the history of rock, but his answer here is not one of his best moments, especially when one recalls that in 1973 lots of folks where getting their rock radio music from college radio stations, which could be quite radical and which were not beholden to corporate interests. My sense is that the women is scratching her head at the end because Zappa has sidestepped her question. The short answer to her question is: no, you can't really ascribe political revolutionary implications to rock, but it can and it has had political-cultural significance and relevance. Zappa's answer points in that direction.
Great comment.
I would however try and squabble about what one implies with the label "political revolutionary" vs. "political-cultural significance".
An excellent and succinct summary.
I think it depends on what is meant by "implications." If you mean, "is rock and roll the cause of political revolutions?," then no, not really. But if you mean to ask whether rock reflects revolutionary politics, or if it contributes to them, then yes, absolutely.
@@Philmoscowitz Well stated and agreed.
Hmm, for me he says, if the audience prefers and listens to hard core revolutionary music, the industry will make a station about it.
She had good questions. Frank had good answers. Interesting discussion, which answers the general question "Why is there so much crap on the radio/TV/Internet?"
Quite right
The entire show is on youtube and I find the debate herein sober and serious - and Zappa seems to appreciate the high level of conversation and gives straight answers to straight questions. This is Zappa when NOT being asked silly questions :-)
How do I find it? I really want to hear the whole thing
@@SingleMalt77005 So do I !
*Woman asks two questions*
Internet: wow she's so persistent
Now, now.
Frank was not only ahead of his time musically, he was an insightful intellectual who understood the real politics behind the business - and the world in general.
@@Gaming-Shedin your opinion, which me and millions of other people would disagree with.
@@Gaming-Shed typical jackson five listener answer
@@ButternoteBackingTracks There's always one in every video featuring Zappa. They can't wait to crap on his music.
@@richardgrier8968we're all entitled to voice our opinion and I don't have a problem as long as it's presented as such 😉
@@ButternoteBackingTracks I agree. However, "His music was crap though" comes across as a declaration of fact rather opinion. "I don't like his music, though" is an opinion.
i admire the mental fortitude you have to try and engage with some of the comments on this video in good faith
Made me smile. Thankyou.
Zappa's interviews are always enjoyable to listen to. He was such a clear thinker, plus witty and calm.
Thank you for that nice comment. Yes, to all you say.
some comments here about the young woman , but Frank wasn't one to suffer fools gladly, he gave a very thoughtful answer to her question , he obviously thought it was a valid question and not confrontational like some posters on here think.
Agreed.
Hear, hear.
Some men like those commentators can't handle an intelligent question by a woman. Frank could.
"Persistently questioned." "Interviewed," even.
Yes, there is that, too.
Zappa was a highly intelligent person, and an incredibly gifted musician and guitarist.
Quite well-spoken as well.
Thank you for your complimentary comment about FZ. A needed balance against the many trolls who stumble on here.
didn't do drugs either. An unusually strong personality.... who knows why? you just get these strong bright people once in a while (thank God) Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull is another with the same kind of razor sharp intellect.
In other words.... a true _genius._
Somebody else in this comments section described how Frank “addressed a political question with an economic answer.” I think that’s exactly the kind of rhetorical reframing the journalist was trying to call out-the question of whether music has a place in politics outside of its branding as *revolutionary, for-the-people “political” music.*
People who stand by Frank’s response without seeing the ideological position he’s coming from-a sort of populist libertarianism-aren’t picking up that nuance in her question. He answered like she expected, but did not want, him to. That’s where the tension is coming from. She asks whether it’s appropriate to think about politics in terms of "vote with your dollar" pseudo-economics, given that the concept of “revolutionary rock-n-roll” was already a massive market at the time. We might ask, “are the people determining the economy here, or is the economy determining the people?” And he simply tells her that what the people want is revolution, without himself asking whether the kind of revolution they’re demanding is one they’ve already bought. One they’ve seen before in their Hollywood blockbusters. One they’ve heard before in their record stores.
Thanks for posting this video. It’s a very telling exchange. It reminds me of the movie “Network”, in a way-a story about the media’s commodification of the phrase “I’m mad as hell, and I’m not going to take it anymore!”
I'm fascinated by the varied comments on this thread that analyse the exchange between Frank and this unknown woman in so many different ways. And here you come with another different way of seeing it, which I find compelling.
Most people weren't interested in revolution that listened to rock n roll or even groups like the Beatles. They just wanted to party and give the middle finger to adults. Nothing more especially by 1973. Alice Cooper already had a hit with School's Out, a song that has lyrics about blowing up schools. No one took that seriously. No kids attempted to do that " inspired" by the song. The people that liked the song just wanted to smoke pot and be rebellious not revolutionaries. She seems like she would be inspired to political violence through music or a political movement on campus like the college students obsessed with Palestine today. While the normal ones are just wanting to get an education to make money.
@@lk3309 Gracious, I agree with your first analysis up to, 'She seems like . . . ' I personally pull back from stating what college students want and disagree with that last statement.
I'm old enough to remember when it wasn't unusual to find such intelligent conversations on TV shows, no need for flashing lights, funny voices, or scripts written in baby talk by marketing teams. Whether or not one agrees with any of the speakers, it's a show by grownups made for grownups. Yeah, there was lots of garbage TV in those days as well, but where today in the open cultural sewer that TV has become would you even find something like this? I'm glad at least some memories of this time are being preserved online.
Agree wholeheartedly.
Some people argue it's the podcasts these days.
@@supernewsuper True, there are some very intelligent podcasts out there.
This is the weirdest comment section I've seen in a while. Like, that is a very standard exchange between *humans*
Is there a tension I'm missing? Or are yall just mad at the girl for reasons you should probably go to therapy over?
I laughed. It's a bit like Beauty and the Beast!
A lot of unjustified resentment towards women
Yes, odd how it provokes such strong reactions against both participants..
@@XX-zu2rd Indeed.
Frank was so much more savvy and well informed than just about any other musician. He could see through the business-end BS and the creative-end BS.
Agree with all of that though I might put it more politely!
Clearly a very intelligent and well spoken guy. Not to mention ahead of his time. Even though it’s over 50 years old, his way of speaking feels contemporary to the modern day.
Too bad ole Zap's music is crap
If you are interested in the man, you may like to read a memoir that details Frank's home life not shown in other books, from getting up to going to bed, composing and rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more. 'Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa, Laurel Canyon, 1968-1971'.
Lots of weird pointless sexism in these comments. Why is it that any time a woman even slightly pushes back against a celebrity, everyone’s gotta belittle her? She seems like a normal, friendly person.
There are also lots of complimentary comments about her. But it is true, we've had a run of bad-ass comments recently, as the Americans say.
A woman's role in a patriarchal society is to be subservient and passive towards men. If a woman pushes back in the slightest way, she threatens the societal order that benefits these men by not behaving the way she is expected to, and when other women see that there is no reason they should be treated worse than men across the board when they can do anything a man can just as good they might catch on to how patriarchy should be abolished. so they have to put her back in her place by intellectually degrading her. Where you see an exchange of wits, they see a man "pwning an uppity woman epic style" cause they're empty conduits of sexism.
@@tonirasic1728 I see women holding their own in many areas today, in the judiciary, in politics, in medicine, etc. But it is true, given two women a week are tragically killed in the UK by their partners, there is still a long way to go.
@@tonirasic1728Das war genau der falsche Gegner, den sie für das verantwortlich zu machen versucht, was ihr von anderen zugefügt wurde. Aber HIER kann sie glänzen: DARAUF kommt es ihr an!
Criticizing a woman isn't sexism.
I think Zappa was very respectful to her because her question was on point.
As a kid growing up in the '50's, Zappa knew that rock/rock and roll did have political revolutionary implications.
Seems like he didn't want to cut to the chase so he could highlight the commercialism of popular music in that time.
Frank was very respectful by nature. When I told him that Brown Shoes Don't Make It was immoral, he debated with me for nearly half an hour. And I agree with your second comment but it would have been better had he answered her question head on.
@paulinebutcherbird in my mind, Zappa was always in tune with sussing out hypocrisy, commercialism impacting art and freedom of expression. Only you and a handful of others would truly know if that's 'correct'.
That sounds correct to me. However. He did seem to have a blind spot on how he treated his wife. But then that is not an uncommon story unfortunately.
The questioner seems either arrogant or daft. Daft because in 1973 rock and roll was still revolutionary. In fact, in three years time punk exploded and gave voice to a huge number of disaffected youth and briefly threatened to turn British society upside down. And I’m not even talking about sex or drugs.
The fact that Zappa chose to address the neutering of rock music by commercialism shows that he was ahead of her, as well as above because he was so polite.
Arrogant because she assumes that a musical dimension to political events is a "Hollywood" invention. It's obvious that she hadn't heard of Giuseppe Verdi's operas being the soundtrack to Italy's _Risorgimento_ or how intensely political and pro-revolutionary Ludwig van Beethoven's music was. I don't know what she thinks of rock music, but she obviously deemed it beneath her. Like Hollywood.
@@Azabaxe80 there have been hundreds of comments on here analysing the exchange between these two, so congratulations for adding a different spin on it.
I think Frank went right to the heart of the question. Money/sponsors dictated the music you heard. Life happened and music was written about it. Not the other way around. Political revolution, sex and drugs are a few of many things that inspired the music. Frank supported the young lady's statement.
Hey, this is crazy but that is my grandmother, she passed away during the pandemic unfortunately, but she was always very outspoken about her love of rock and has shared that love with me. I know she’s in a better place but I still miss her so much
If this is so, that is wonderful news, but I do need some evidence. Would you send me photographs to my e-mail address: paulineharrisonbird@gmail.com and in the subject column, state 'who is she?' A name would be helpful too.
@@paulinebutcherbird Was she? We're curious here lol
@@RafaelPerches I'm waiting to hear from Ester952. And who is 'we'?
@@paulinebutcherbird Me n Rafael
@@CL2- Okay. Still no reply if this is a valid identification.
I love how articulate Frank was.
also get the impression that he appreciates how intelligent the young woman is in her questioning.
Yes, I do, too. His eyebrows going up and down and trying quite hard to communicate with her.
G'day Pauline, this comment thread has cost me hours! But not as many hours as it has cost you I bet. I have never seen someone spend so much time responding, well done!
The algorithm brought me here after Frank's interview with Norman Gunston...! I think the folk all claiming Frank was boring, narcissistic, stuck up etc should watch that interview and see him converse with humour as well as respect for the situation. Also the respect he showed when he realised that The Little Bleeder could really blow the harp!
The woman asking the question in this clip reminds me of an old friend of mine who spent 13 years at Sydney uni, earning her phd in clinical psychology. She was quite political - became a singer in a punk band at one stage, but no, Rhonda would of only been early teens in 73. Good luck in your search. Cheers!
It's really nice to get an overview of this thread in a pleasant way and give a suggestion for the mystery woman as well but sadly not the one. I was wondering how people were finding this post, now I know.
Sharpest mind in all of rock and roll.
That might be true.
Probably because he was always sober
Rock and roll is about feeling though. Who cares about the intellect side of things? Maybe he should have been a scientist of some sort. A chemist maybe.🤷
@@Wildrover82 Frank wrote some good tunes
@@gregbors8364 I know. I always paid more attention to Beefheart than Zappa tbh though.
And he was saying all this BEFORE media consolidation came along. Man was way ahead of the curve.
Nice to get a positive comment.
I had Anne Cranny-Francis suggested. She graduated in 1974 in Australia and completed a PhD at the University of East Anglia in 1984. Her subjects revolve around politics and literature. She recently retired as Professor of Cultural Studies at UTS. Photographs of her do not look dissimilar.
I remove verbally abusive comments.
There was a time when a challenging and articulate question was welcomed, as well as the back and forth of clarifying the question. Don't be put off by style. This is dialogue. Something we no longer do much of.
We've just completed our General Election in UK and there was plenty of debate on that.
He was sharp, and he wasn't manipulated or intimidated by people who underestimated him bbecause of his unfair public image. Listening to him here, man, did he ever put these people in their places. He wasn't a perfect human being, not a saint. But he was one of the good ones. I wish he were still here today.
She didn't challenge, she merely stood their ground as did Frank.
That's how conversation between intelligent people works, or at least used to
It's how my relationship with Frank began when I said Brown Shoes Don't Make It is immoral.
Most extremely intelligent people are highly aware that the vast majority of what we perceive as the truth is subjective. It's never about changing the opinion of the one you debate, it's about making strong points, reflecting on other's arguments, and perhaps learning from one another.
i don't think of zappa as a genius so much as i see a very thoughtful, knowledgeable, educated man.
Exactly. We throw around the word genius way too often.
@@SillyGoose2024Well he did have the temarity to call out coming fascist theocracy in the USA in the 80s.
Here we are 40 yrs later going down that road.
@@bobbafett1849 That doesn't make him a genius, of course.
Well, his IQ qualified him as genius level. Although I was never a hardcore fan, his impressive body of work qualifies at least as much.
@@GCKelloch IQ has nothing to do with creative genius. Some serial killers had high IQs.
I don't think they are 'challenging' him, they're asking him questions. It seems to me like a civilized conversation between two people.
That is my view, too.
Frank Zappa was a real musician and also really smart: quite unique
Definitely.
Why are so many men annoyed by an intelligent woman.
Zappa was a gynophobe.
How is that relevant to this video or the comment section? Why do you put lettuce between your toes?
We know why
if only she was
patriarchy and misogyny, obviously.
Those were great questions, the gave Zappa a chance to explain his ideas on the music industry.
Don’t mess with Frank, he was a genius.
Disputed further down in the thread somewhere!
I haven't the foggiest. But there is something interesting about her. She is articulate and self confident without being fawning or pretentious in a way we rarely see in young people now, over a half century later. It's also interesting that Zappa actually doesn't directly address the questions she asks, but rather bends it towards his own reflections on corporate music distribution and the public zeitgeist. He's more interested in telling the audience what he thinks they need to know. A more interesting speculation would be to imagine what a conversation between Zappa and this young lady would have been like if it were just the two of them without the audience.
Ha ha. Most certainly it would be an interesting speculation to consider what this conversation would have been like without an audience. But in fact, I doubt it would have been much different because Frank had arrived at this event with a woman on his arm whom he took with him to europe on the rest of the tour and then on to his home in Los Angeles.!
Jodie Foster or which l. 😅
@@urbanbader4113 Oh, if only it were that simple. Jodie Foster was American and would have been 11 years old in 1973!
Frank is right that this art is the byproduct of a system of wealth extraction. When art is the goal it’s a wildly different outcome. She is right to ask the question and I wish the two of them hadn’t been interrupted.
Oh god here we go again. All these music videos inevitably get comments to the effect that "times used to be amazing, they suck now." Tedious and false.
Thoughtful questions and thoughtful responses.
How nice. A favourable comment. Thank you.
They're treating Zappa like a visiting professor, keen to probe his intellect and viewing him, rightly, as an expert in the field.
And until Moon's book, he's still been treated that way.
She sounded brilliant.
So did Zappa.
I think they were each impressed by the other.
Yes, I think they were, too. Thanks.
How long did it take her to memorize her pathetic questions? 😂
i like her energiy, but her questions miss the point. pretty impressed with Zappa though. Calm and insightful.
_pretty impressed with Zappa though. Calm and insightful_ This has always been my observation as well. Sometimes I don't understand him, but he was clearly a very pensive person.
As he was, always.
@@BS-vx8dg Indeed. An insight into Frank's character and how he was at home, (not shown in other books) from getting up to going to bed, composing and rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more, can be found in 'Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa, Laurel Canyon, 1968-1971'.
@@paulinebutcherbird "always" is a weird thing to add. Now i ask my self if he realy was like that XD
but i get the sentiment and appreciate the charitable stance.
@@paulinebutcherbird So, Pauline, are *you* the girl asking the questions?
Guys, if this made you angry, ya'll need to go take a class on rhetoric. Speech is persuasive when you use more than pure literalism in your language. It's fine if you disagree with her, but the point was valid.
I don't think she is *literally* saying she doesn't understand that music can be political, she is saying Rock should not be stand in for actual political discourse. At that point Hollywood was already a large force for propaganda, especially at that time when it was enforcing conservative perspectives.
To his point that would change as the audiences changed, because of money.
To her point, politics today is *largely* obscured behind vapid infotainment, celebrity worship, and media based propaganda.
They were both making very good points here which is proved out by history. If you felt this was a hollow statement and she's a pseudo-intellectual... well, maybe it's going over your head.
Another alternative interpretation of the exchange taking place here. Amazing how the video keeps stimulating new ways of seeing it.
She didn’t say anything valid at all on this clip. Her premise was a strawman.
@@paulinebutcherbird you posted an out of context clip where we have no idea what’s going on. Of course people are going to interpret it different ways
@@ExpertContrarian So close to 5,000 comments, most of which praise her, are mis-led?
@@ExpertContrarian Partly true. If you watch it in the full video, I think this exchange is just as ambiguous.
That was a great conversation, man. I expected a typical takedown-style video, but just got a good back-and-forth.
I think so, too. It reminds me of when I first met Frank Zappa and told him that Brown Shoes Don't Make it was immoral. He debated with me in a similar way as here but about the morality of lyrics.
I honestly think it’s interesting how he acknowledges that the type of music that’s popular can depend every bit as much on who’s consuming it as who’s producing it. Kinda goes against the popular societal narrative of “The Man” being the one who’s merely pushing garbage on people without their consent if you ask me.
@paulinebutcherbird
I imagine it's a two-way effect - the producer tries something out and it sells, so they follow up with something similar on the assumption that that's what people want. Similarly, if the producer tries something out and no one buys it, that brand gets buried.
Reply
@@paulinebutcherbird definitely. Supply-and-demand feedback loop if you will.
@@eeyorehaferbock7870 An economist speaks.
Anything that's fun or popular with a large cohort gets commercialized and promoted until the moneyed interests wring every penny they can out of it or until people get sick of it.
In music there's been a long history of the artists being exploited by the producers managers, record companies, Mickey Hart's dad.
The Kinks did a whole album about that called Lola versus Power Man and the Moneygoround, Part One
I grew up on Frank Zappa was making music and I'd much rather listen to him talking about things then playing music to be honest. That's a compliment to his intelligence
@@charlesandrews2360 If you're more interested in the man, you might be interested in my book that details Frank's home life not found in other books, from getting up to going to bed, composing and rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more. 'Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa, Laurel Canyon, 1968-1971.'
FZ was one of the most intelligent and articulate of his rock generation. Brian Eno is also a great communicator.
FZ certainly was.
Besides that he was foremost a serious musician, who did more then the occassional pop song.
@@theobolt250 From what I understand he was similar to Captain Beefheart in the sense that he worked outside the pop idiom and arranged highly complex pieces with several tempo changes and unusual chord changes. Did he come from a jazz background?
@@davidc.williams-swanseauk3623 No. He came from a Catholic, lower middle class family in Cucamonga. And the big difference between them was that FZ was an outstanding businessman and managed to make money even though the radio stations refused to play his music. Captain Beefheart had no business skills and was broke most of his life. There are many biographies. Try one by Barry Miles.
@@davidc.williams-swanseauk3623 Of course FZ and Don Van Vliet were High School friends, and FZ produced the Captain Beefheart magnum opus "Trout Mask Replica".
I went backstage after a Zappa concert in Tallahassee in late 1970. It was at the FSU gym and I just walked in to the dressing room as a deep fan of his music. He was so normal it was almost strange, he sat on a sofa with a Nagra portable tape recorder and a very expensive-looking microphone, taping the goings on probably for future use. I asked him specific questions about specific album tracks and he answered them. If you talked music with Frank he took you seriously. It was politics and other subjects where he tended to go off. His sense of humor was astounding.
What a great story. You were lucky it was 1970, a year before he was knocked off stage in England. After that, it was difficult to get near him as his bodyguard stood in the way.
Frank would hate social media with a passion.
@Wayzor_ 🙃maybe, I think he'd run circles around a lot of "content" creators. If he felt like it. Freedom of speach.
I've said for years that we need Frank now, more than ever.
This is just a very intelligent conversation. It seems some people just don't understand what high level intellectual discourse sounds like.
I agree with you and thank you for adding a positive comment. Needed from time to time on here!
true. these days people actually listen to joe rogan and jordan peterson. two jokers mr. zappa would have shut down in seconds.
@@toslinked Is there someone else capable of doing just that?
Why "challenged"?
The question didn't pose any challenge, and I'm not referring to the fact that Zappa was way ahead of most of his peers, nor am I diminishing the question or the person asking it.
It was a very straightforward question that anyone with a fair knowledge of the US music business would answer without breaking a sweat.
So... why "challenged"?
Daddydoom, you are not the first person to question me about the use of the word 'challenge' so I'm going to change it to 'question' and let's see if interest falls off!
It made you comment, so you've answered your own question as to "why": engagement for the algorithm
@@LordVader1094 Which is funny because a lot of presumably older commenters bemoan the "old times" when such intelligent discussion could have taken a place without artificial hype.
@@paulinebutcherbird anything related with Zappa has always its fair share of interest from the get go.
Using tricks to get more people to come is just dishonest.
@@DaddyDoom I'm so flabbergasted by your reply, I'm unable to make further comment.
This is the man that said politics is the entertainment division of the military industrial complex. I think that's a good answer .
I think that's a misquote. It sounds like you've read that misleading book about the miliary being involved in some mysterious way in Laurel Canyon when in fact, the same can be said about any group of people at that time in any city, because the military was the biggest employer so it's unlikely that any family was no drawn into it's murky ways.
@@paulinebutcherbird
I tried to look it it up, sometimes it was 'government', instead of 'politics' but both could be variations of this:
“One of the things my artist friends like to point out is that politics, entertainment, and business are the same thing. Like Frank Zappa said: ‘Politics is the entertainment branch of industry.’ It’s all a big sideshow, all set up to divert your attention from the way corporations are screwing the public.”
- David Collins - (A Small Town for its Size)
Eisenhower was a decent man.
@@DerEchteBold Thanks for doing this. As you've shown, there is no inclusion of the word 'military'.
@@paulinebutcherbird
Thanks, the other line, with 'military-industrial-complex' is listed as a quote of his quite often though.
It seemed like a reasonable series of questions and reasonable answers. Zappa was a smart guy, and when he was in a room with smart people he was more than capable of carrying on intellectual conversations.
I think that, too.
Jodie JJ Adams or JJ Adams...she is a rock journalist or was a rock journalist for RAM magazine...finding it hard to locate much about her.
I'm impressed.
Sounded like an intelligent conversation to me 🤷
@@Koettnylle yeah 👍
@@Koettnylle Offer me one that is not clickbait.
@@paulinebutcherbird Frank Zappa and Anonymous Student have civil conversation despite differing views! Why can't we talk like this anymore? How's that for a better title?
@@enochlamont877 Actually that is quite good, but it is your copyright to use yourself. I can't change this title after one month but thank you for your response.
@@enochlamont877 Twice I have given a nice reply to this and twice it has disappeared. What is going on?
This is a great conversation and a fine example of how complex ideas can be made accessible through clear, straightforward language. Zappa, in his own way, shines brilliantly here. I can't help but notice, though, a hint of Euro-British arrogance in the attempt to portray North Americans as lacking culture-a view of the U.S. that many Europeans often share. Frank responds with simple, elegant language, pointing out the diversity in American music across stations and challenging her vague generalizations about U.S. musical tastes. It’s worth noting that the Brits, too, were listening to their share of frivolous music, like Lulu, and other silly things, just as people were everywhere else in the world though the Brits somehow seemed to think that their educational system is superior. I know very little about Zappa, and I would like to know less, but he is brilliant here.
It's an Australlian TV show.
She's Australian.
"I know very little about Zappa, and I would like to know less, but he is brilliant here."
Why would you like to know less exactly? Is there logic behind that saying or is it just something you threw out there to sound quirky without making any sense?
@ shows how much I know about accents. Thanks.
@@mr1597 Ah! Thank you for your rue reply. 🎶
More respect and intelligence on all sides in a 1973 2 minutes rock debate than in everything you can watch today on mass media
Do you mean on social media? I ask because there are many discussion programmes on British TV shows.
I gave up on spanish TV years ago, I suppose BBC has better contents
@@qasser-gw4xv Perhaps. It's available on line so you could check.
Not sure how many will recognize the significance today, of both the intellect and clarity of the questions asked and the answers given. In 1973!🙏
you were better then us. we don't deserve you
It looks like some kind of debate or panel discussion with students at a university. I'm sure today's equivalent will be much the same. They sound smart because they are, they're at place for smart people
@alexsetterington3142 "Today's equivalent will be much the same"
Riiiiiight.
What alternate universe do you believe you are in Sparky?
Wow, the comments are wild.
I think he agreed with her, that rock or any kind of music isn't gonna make any revolution. It can facilitate it, but in the end it's just a medium and revolutions are not about any medium but about a conflict.
She was questioning a "holywoodesque" notion that rock music is/will be essential for revolution and he agreed with her saying: "that's not true" (that notion). He then followed it by stating that theams in music/music styles are secondary to the underlying mood of society and become popular because there is already a demand for them.
I wish Frank Zappa could see these comments! Thank you. Again, I can see your reasoning.
@@paulinebutcherbird I think FZ wouldn't think much of this conversation since it is in no way controversial but has a rather mundane conclusions for anyone who knows a little bit about society and culture.
Also, I'm pretty sure he would roll his eyes at people calling him a genius after hearing this exchange, since it's conclusions are not ground breaking. But as one can see in the vid, he wouldn't scoff at it either cause it still has enough nuance to make it somewhat productive.
ps. They seem to be talking a bit past each other, but I put it on the fact thah her first Q is both broad and vague, since "revolutionary implications of rock" or any art is a subject for academic works and I assume that's why he was reluctant to answer it, cause it would turn into a lecture.
As soon as she narrows down her Q he answers it directly and gives rationale for it.
@@papaunderwater3316 Indeed. And it's why I deduced she must be a student or perhaps became an academic, but still we don't know.
I can't imagine a world where many different types of music are available on radio stations, for my entire life it's been the same 50 songs repeated ad nauseum.
In what country do you live?
@@paulinebutcherbird the USA
Are you saying the radio stations today have less variety? Why would you listen to radio today when there is so much stuff you can listen to elsewhere?
Yep. Taylor Swift and Billie Eilish in every goddamn gas station, grocery store, auto body shop, mall, restaurant... it never ends. I honestly wish I could go places where there isn't any music.playing for once. Like just enjoy the silence and then get an earworm of music I actually like at my own discretion.
Zappa always was a bit disregarded by the mainstream industry for the the manner he approached music. He worked out a mix in between contemporary avant-garde and rock. And he was so much aware of the mechanics of everything around him...
Indeed, and the other factor that is so often overlooked is what a brilliant businessman he was. Who else would advertise in comics? And he had no embarrassment in how he gained publicity - for example, in England on their first trip when no one had heard of them, he put on a short dress to reveal hairy legs, together with false boobs and his hair tied in bunches either side of his head to depict a Mother. The photo was all over the front pages of the music papers.
@@paulinebutcherbird Oh... Are you actually the author of the book "Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa"??? (If you are) I just bought it on my kindle and I'm thrilled with, not only with the details on Zappa's personality, but also with the quality and delicious flow of the writing.
Since my 14's that I became a fan of that twisted Zappa sound, later when enrolling to study at my home town's conservatorium of music it impacted me that Zappa was actually fascinated by Edgard Varèse as he was also a very rare orchestra conductor that wouldn't play the piano but the guitar instead... and that was another unexpected door to understand his music. But I totally agree with you on Frank's other dimension that also contributes to his musical universe, his natural curiosity and clear mind of the social mechanics that would reject or accept his work.
It must have been quite a ride to know him at his own backstage :)
Your book is absolute fun to read, and a very smart and amazing human quality approach to the reading of the personality of one of the greatest musicians of the 20th century... :)
Looks like she asks a good question (about a revolution without musical accompaniment) that he doesn't clearly answer except that music can correspond to the mood of a particular audience (and perhaps inspire them?) She's articulate and focused, but seems to be careful in her approach. Nothing bad meant about Zappa, just complementing the woman. Maybe they need a clear definition of "revolution" that they can both address.
Valid point.
@@paulinebutcherbird Thank you.
Click bait title. It's an intelligent exchange on both their parts.
When I started this post, I had no idea what click bait title meant, but several people made the same comment when I originally titled it, 'Frank is challenged by a female student' and I had an avalanche of protests so changed it to persistently questioned which, despite your protest, I stand by. She does persistently question him, interrupting his answer to the other guy.
@@paulinebutcherbird she didn't challenge him in any way. I watched just a normal discusion and that's all
@@demr04 Thank you for watching.
@@paulinebutcherbirdI have no idea how your video title is a problem. The label matches the contents. Thank for not posting a clickbait title. Thank you for posting. It was very interesting.
@@daniellamcgee4251 Ah! Nice of you to say. Thanks.
Frank Zappa IS an intelligent artist with a complete understanding of what he is doing.
Exactly. Kudos to the woman for asking good questions.
@@harrycooper5231 I'm so glad when she gets compliments. If only she could see them!
WAS ????
Frank was so well rounded and astute.
No drugs.(Besides the cigarettes that killed him from prostrate cancer, but he eschewed psychedelics and narcotics. Thats why he sounds thoughtful and clear headed.)
@@stefanschleps8758 Bob Marley was high 24/7 and he sounded thoughtful and clearheaded. If one is thoughtful, he will always be thoughtful. If one is stupid, he will be stupid.
We miss Frank Zappa.
Wish Frank was around now. He'd probably have a Sirius XM program on a specialty station.
Don't know what that means, but it sound right.
Most of the comments are out of context. This clip was taken from an hour-long Australian television programme, the central theme of which is to reflect on the relationship between cultural production and social change. The panel members are not arrogant, they are simply people interested in reflecting on the culture of their time, that's all. Full show: ruclips.net/video/wTLOsoMMDuE/видео.htmlsi=N6d8I6ZIkBwKnFJr
Were you in the audience? Do you know anyone who was?
@@paulinebutcherbird Hi Pauline. A lot of people have commented based on what you can see in this clip, which is just a fragment of a program that has a thematic focus. I was just trying to put things into context. I was 10 years old in 1973, and I am South American. I have no idea who that young woman could be. Cheers.
dont worry about her. Give Zappa a nod for his incredible answers.
I agree, but I also liked her questions, thus my interest in this post.
@@paulinebutcherbirdWho was the female questioner?
@@ggalaxy9065 You check who you just send the comment to...
@@hni7458 Excuse me? I asked the lady who posted this the identity of the female questioner in the video. She already said she was not that person.
@@ggalaxy9065 Don't follow, but sorry anyway, my bad surely 🙂
He is sorely missed
True. If only he could know that.
This was great! Unlike so many people, when he encounters someone so articulate, Frank rises to the occasion.
Agreed. What I found so knock-out about FZ when I met him was his willingness to listen to what I had to say and to debate with it.
Q: "Anyone know who she is?"
A: Yes, someone knows.
Maybe, but where are they?
@@paulinebutcherbird You ask hard questions!
@@KingOFuh I would really like to know the answer. Even if she herself didn't come forward, you would think someone would have some clue.
To me, this does not seem like a case of Zappa being "persistently questioned" and "challenged." To me, this sounds like a reasonable discussion about the state of the music industry and its political relevance.
I agree. A nice exchange though and worth highlighting.
@@paulinebutcherbird I like Frank's interview with Studs Terkel. A nice exchange also.
@@jameschristiansson3137 Link please.
@@paulinebutcherbird Email sent.
@@jameschristiansson3137 Received and replying.
I've noticed that several of these hate comments are from recently created accounts. I highly encourage people like this to try developing a personality, if possible. Frank has played a huge influence in both my taste in music and societal observations.
It's great that Frank has had that kind of influence on you and you noticed the age of the accounts!
Interesting question/comment from the (I think she is) British woman about revolutions having musical accompaniment in light of the fact that this interview is likely before the rise of British punk as the collective voice of British youth's discontent with their future prospects. The Sex Pistols' "No future for you" was as much an economic statement as it was a political one.
Thanks for sharing
Actually, she's an Australian, perhaps a cultured one, because you are not alone in thinking she is English. This exchange took place in 1973 and I believe the Sex Pistols formed in 1975 so your comment is correct.
Ok so 1-2 questions is “ persistently questioned“. Learned something new today
A little sarcasm in there.
Zappa was well aware of the music business environment in general and knew how it functioned. He was on top of everything and didn't take crap from anyone and his answers were always well thought out !
And he was polite.
Zappa never misses an opportunity to discredit or undermine the beatles
That's true and your comment made me laugh for its accuracy. Even when he praised one of the albums, I forget which one, he said he liked it because it was so well engineered and produced!
To add, adults weren’t into the Beatles. They were boy band. Good one at that
@@helloitsmehb zzzzzz because a day in the life and strawberry fields are just like Busted records
Which seems more like a sibling rivalry to me than a true slight. I have no doubt most of The Beatles early efforts had little appeal to Zappa, but there's no question they rapidly changed to more compelling fodder mid-career and were just as quickly over before any of them had even reached 30. Their musical legacy became set in stone at that point. Meanwhile, most of Zappa's musical contributions garnered only a fraction of praise while being significantly more difficult to achieve.
@@Singleballtheory in what way were they significantly more difficult to achieve?
Nice seeing people disagree with each other, civilly
I loved how he checked them by including the Beatles in the list of what the pretentious interviewer referred to as trite.
Pretentious interviewer?
@@paulinebutcherbird My mistake in calling him an interviewer. THe dude in the discussion panel that used the word "trite" (seemingly selectively).
@@keneola Got it.
brilliant footage, thanks for sharing!
It would have been nice to allow Zappa to continue speaking . They cut him off just when my ears were perking up
I have always admired Zappa's mind and his eloquence, just as much as I detested his music. It's a free country when it comes to likes and dislikes - and I'm sure Zappa understand that better than anyone, and was probably pretty cool with it.
If you are interested in Zappa's mind rather than his music, you might like a memoir that gives his home life when he was first famous, not shown in other books, from getting up to going to bed, composing and rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more. 'Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa, Laurel Canyon, 1968-1971.' A Christmas present, perhaps?
He speaks like a time traveler
@@slasher1563 he was a time traveler
That's just what we used to call journalism. You know, standard informed questions on the subject at hand. Something that is lost through most of today's entertainment soaked social lenses. And their short attention spans.
I agree, social media is saturating our minds, but there are still newspapers and journals such as The Economist, and the like.
some of the responses below regarding the questions that woman was asking are a bit over critical I think. Remember, this is 1973 . The US had has a decade-DECADE of very political music, beginning in the early 60's with Pete Seeger and early Dylan, and the late 60's, which had lots of anti-war anthems in response to the Vietnam war. This young woman is clearly skeptical of the notion that music has any real political impact and in fact, seems to think that perhaps it doesn't. In some ways she's asking a question that she already knows the answer to but is wondering about his opinion. He, actually does not answer it and goes into a fairly long explanation of how radio is impacted by the bottom line. To be fair, he's cut off quite a lot and so doesn't get to express his position clearly. But to me, her question is an interesting one. I would be curious also to know what happened to her. I mean, she'd be in her 70's now. May not even be aware this is on the internet.
Answering backwards, given RUclips didn't start until 2005, she would already have been in her 50s and perhaps not too interested. Still, I am surprised that no one in that audience has come forward to say, I was there. I agree with you that Frank doesn't answer the question, but to be fair the questions slides as the discussion goes on. Re political songs, what about Willie Guthrie's This Land is Your Land from the 1940s and others from earlier including slave songs. In Europe there must have been political songs since time began.
She is full of shit and the look on her face is laughable.
His mental clarity is unrivaled.
I agree.
Zappa was a force of nature; his body of work was a truly superhuman output.
@@patrickmoran687 unrivalled by what exactly, all the intellects in the world at the time?
I would love to listen this whole conversation, does anyone have any idea where to find it?
It's on RUclips. Search Monday Club Frank Zappa 1973.
@@paulinebutcherbird Thanks Pauline, much love :)
Good questions, no challenge. Smart fella. She is , too.
i don´t know, but she´s pretty and smart.
Agreed, and after 400,000 views, we still don't know who she is/was.
Frank Zappa: very wise and intelligent
Agreed.
@@MichaelMiner-k8b To be fair, this wasn't a lecture hall. This was a bunch of young people asking questions which required answers on that level.
@@MichaelMiner-k8b Her questions were smug rehearsed attempts at coming off as a humanities student turned intellectual. That's why he has to give basic responses.
Don't mess with Frank. There's a genius lurking under that long hair and mustache.
@@michaelthomas366 he was not infaillible
The audience & students come off glib + arrogant, it's frustrating to see when Zappa is giving a genuine and thoughtful response to a (Frankly) vague & loaded question. They seem more inclined toward intellectual pissing contests rather than grounded discussion.
I think the audience is keen and attentive.
Have you not been to University? It's been like that since the 13th century
@@aliservan7188 Not in my experience.
I find the very first question of the girl student correct and with a whole lot of interesting implications.
@@sslavi I agree, so much so that interpretations of what she was asking have been widely varied in these comments.