They were troublesome in the beginning, but now they are as reliable as any other locomotive. From what I have seen, many train drivers even got along with them, and some are even sad about their early retirement now. And I think they still have future, just not in Czechia under ETCS. Maybe somewhere in the East or in the Balkans.
Yeah, it's interesting that they won't be keeping what now seem to be mostly functional trains around. It's probably due to a mix of their previous issues, the internal state of the locomotives, and overall reliability, which is likely better now but still not good enough to outweigh the complications and costs of installing ECTS in them. It'll be funny if they end up hauling passenger trains in the Balkans or something, but even places like Bulgaria are now getting Vectrons.
Hey! I work for Hungarian Federal Railways, and I have driven a lot of the 380's. They were a lot of fun back in the day, much simpler than class 350's or V43's. Only problem was the space inside the locomotive, as it was limited and 2 people could only fit if one of them sat on an uncomfortable, collapsible wooden "chair". Other than that, we all enjoyed hauling it, now there's only Vectron's, and the ComfortJet soon. Will definetly miss these locomotives in Hungary, and I'm glad I could serve on them. If you have any question's about the driving aspects, feel free to let me know, I have a lot of stories!
Also, the best feature of the locomotive for us were the easy change between the cabs. Old ZSSK locomotives (etc.: 350,363) always needed to have the pantograph down when changing cabs, because there was a risk of getting electrocuted. The first ride with the 380 for me, was definetly a lifechanger ( it was the 380-001, I was one of the first hungarian drivers to get the license on this locomotive). The buttons are straightforward, errors are easily fixable via the touchscreen (it helps you get the root cause of the error). I certainly enjoy people bringing up this locomotive, it makes me happy, and I'm very grateful to still find videos of this loco. If anyone has any questions, feel free to let me know.
Thanks for the detailed insights! Always pleased to hear from people who know about these trains! - I understand they are a lot more reliable now and a lot of drivers have grown a liking to them. Shame they were so troublesome in the early years, otherwise CD might have a lot of these instead of the vectrons :D
They came with a lot of trouble at first, haha. Soon before their retirement, I had a problem near Nagymaros and Göd, because the UIC cable of the PKP carriage malfunctioned, and the whole loco just shut off randomly (about 40 minutes later it worked again). That's when I realized that even though they have been years of software updates, they still have bugs inside of them. As for the drivers liking these, certainly would say yes. 70th line drivers (which connects Budapest-Nyugati and Sturovo) grew up on this locomotive, and were sad seeing them leave. As for me, I enjoyed mixed EC's and EN's, when you didn't know if you would get a 350,362 or a 380. Nowadays it's just Vectron's. I still drive on this line, and it's a little bit boring now with only Vectron's. Same procedures and same locomotive's do tire you out faster. I'm thankful on the behalf of the other Skoda drivers too, and will certainly show them this video!
I have been hauled by all 20 x 380 locos and never had one completely fail as such. However on one very troublesome run with 380007 it wasn’t well and was working an EC to Budapest and we had a number of sudden emergency stops in Southern Slovakia and Hungary. It did not return from Budapest as booked and was hauled dead back to Bratislava on its return working. Many journeys and most have been fine but the 380 does have a chequered history. I can also confirm that the route from Krumlov to Bud is really scenic and worth a trip!
Fun fact the wagon you are traveling in is a former ÖBB one. They where build in the late 1970s and early 1980s. The ÖBB sold a huge proportion of his older rolling stock in the 2010s when most of the RailJets 1. Generation had arrived. Now in the 2020s the ÖBB has an extremly high shortage of long distance train material. Therfore they rent old knackered DB wagons (the same as you can also see in the video at one point xD) Many say, it would have been best to not sold so many carriages to Ceske Drahy and RegioJet...
I cannot get over the fact that we sold these super comfortable train cars and I had to travel in a 1980 s-Bahn carriage (city shuttle) with a hole in the ground as a toilet for more than 4 hours through Austria. It’s a disgrace. And now they ordered Siemens Mireo commuter trains as that are intended for long haul travel…
@@paddybm3245 Perhaps one thing that the ÖBB really likes more about the CityShuttle units over the compartment wagons ist that they are way more flexible. Use of the compartment wagons in S-Bahn or even REX services would be quite nightmare with the extremely slow passenger change. And the flexibility which the CityShuttle units offer is good used by the ÖBB. Furthermore in so called Camel trains when they are pared with Desto carriages. I am not quite sure but I believe also this older wagons are not "druckertüchtigt"? Which is also a drawback and no benefit over the city shuttle... But clearly the city shuttle is outdated in 2025 and I believe even the compartment units aren't modern when you compare it to the RailJet with its open gangway design :) The borders between long distance and short distance trains are getting smaller but I hope that the 31 Siemens Mireo which are ordered for the "Inlandverkehr" will have a better equipment than the Desiro ML which in fact are only a temporary solution :) But then offer the flexibility to be used on the S-Bahn Vienna service^^ Surely flexibility is a huge benefit for a railway company like the ÖBB
We had 380 008 on our Budapest to Prague service, almost 1,5 years ago. Apart from the delays caused by other factors - emergency aid for sick traveller in Budapest Nyugati, +35 minutes and several stops in Slovakia to give way for oncoming trafic, 008 managed to recover some of the delay. We even shouted that if the train kept its 63 minutes delay, we would be reimbursed 1/3 of the cost of our tickets, meaning more beers for us lads. But it pulled in Praha hlavni nadrazi with 57 minutes and we lost the bet 😂
Never ever had any issues. Did haul my trains between Praha, Bratislava and Budapest with no delays. Did one run behind 381 002-5 out of Bratislava and again, no problems. I find them a good looking locomotive but sadly, the Vectron-disease is not to be stopped...
Exactly. They could just fit them with ETCS and if they don't want them then sell them to another railway, maybe Slovenske Železnice, they could increase capacity or replace older locomotives with the 380s. And unlike Vectrons they are pleasing to the eye. I think the vectrons with a different body shell would be more aesthetically pleasing but to me they look boxy and a bit like they were inspired by trucks for some reason.
@that1niceguy246 The quote CD received in 2022 for fitting the ETCS was 44.3 billions CZK per unit, which was the market value of the whole locomotive (and I guess such projects rarely go without issues).
A few months ago I had a short breakdown from Freistadt to Linz with train EC 337 - Loco. was a ČD380 - While going downhill to Linz emergency stop in the middle of nowhere on a single track line because no air was left in the braking system. It took 15-20min to get the train running again.
I use them every winter + summer to visit my grandparents, I never experienced any problems with them and noticed that since the timetable change they're also used on the R services between Prague an C Budejovice.
Yes, i think most of their work is now concentrated on service down to Ceske Budejovice as they can no longer operate on Prague - Budapest because of ECTS soon being a requirement for that route :D
About these locomotives, it is complicated. Although I do agree in the beginning, I certainly don't agree with claim that they are unreliable. These locos were unreliable, but are now as any other locomotive. Every piece of equipment, including locomotives, will always have some issues, some common issues - it doesn't matter whether it is Vectron, 109E, 362, TRAXX MS2/3... I have heard from many train drivers praise for these locomotives. They have very good electronics, fairly good acceleration, only 2 pantographs (even though they can operate on 3 systems - 3kV DC, 25kV AC 50 Hz and 15kV 16,7 Hz) and these days one of the more reliable ones. It is possible to mount them with ETCS, it is just incompetency of České Dráhy and their inability to manage vehicles. The most common arguments are - 1. it would be too expensive, 2. there is no place to mount it (even though there is enough space, they were prepared for ETCS since manufacturing), 3. they are in their half life. I have never had problem with 380 hauling my train, and I am (and I was) traveling with them a lot. It is sad that those locos are probably about to be sold to Balkans or Turkey. It is 19 interoperable locomotives with the ability to mount them with ETCS, with good top speed and good electronics. It truly is a shame. (Note: I don't claim them to be 100% reliable and they certainly have some shortcomings or other facts (for example relatively small cab for train driver, they are very short and they have narrow wheelbase chassis)).
Yeah, it's very interesting that they now seem to be working at least as reliably as everything else CD has locomotive-wise, but they are still heading for retirement. I'm guessing the reasons for not keeping the 380s around much longer must be a combination of their previous issues, the internal state of the locomotives, and overall reliability. It's probably better now but still not good enough to outweigh the complications with installing ECTS in them. I'd love to see CD post a reliability graph! My home railway, DSB, makes it public every few months how many kilometers each type of train drives on average before a failure causing a train delay.
@@Simon-Andersen It's also a series of a mere 20 locomotives, with very few other ones operating elsewhere. So, the risks of increasing repair costs etc are quite substantial.
@@Simon-Andersen I would say ETCS is pretty much the reason. +they are not allowed in Germany. There are not many of them and ČD won't be buying more. ETCS is specialy developed for every loco type. So the less locos of the type, the more expensive it gets.
You don't need to hope that the locomotive will stay together anymore. Despite their initial child diseases, they are now pretty reliable. And what's better they are prepared for service on czech railway network much better than all those fancy german locos, which are not able to use dynamic brake without raised pantograph (since they lack brake resistor) and it take ages to them to get alive again after all those phase-locks on czech railway network. 380s are maybe not the most comfortable locos in the world (since they are pretty short) but their software is really nice and I guess their creators didn't use Google Translator for other than domestic language versions like Siemens did... 🤣
That's very interesting. It's surprising that it seems like they are not being kept around for service on non-ECTS lines. I guess it be a combination of their previous issues, reliability being better but still not amazing, and the internal state of the locomotives, that just makes them not worth to operate for CD.
@@Simon-Andersen I guess that the main reason is the price of ETCS retro-fit (as they call installation of ETCS into older locos, at least in Czech republic). There is just 20 pieces of these locos so the cost is very high unfortunately... 😏
The locos are completely fine in terms of reliability now. Never had a breakdown with them in recent years. The huge reason why they are being retired from mainline authority is ETCS. From what I'm told, the existing EVC (computing unit for train-side ETCS) is too big to fit anywhere on the loco, and developing a different EVC just for the number of these locos is not economically viable.. other than that, it's quite a powerful loco and looks quite nice too.. a bit of a shame. @@Simon-Andersen
Nice video, though I expected more in depth technical analysis of the issues. Maybe split the travel log and technical discussions into separate videos or use the chapters feature. Other than that it's a nice trip.
Thanks, Tobias! I see how the title could be perceived that way. l try to make it clear within the first 30 seconds that this is a hybrid between a trip report and a technical discussion format, perhaps i need to have a more clear structure. It was also really challenging to find reliable data about performance over time, as ČD doesn’t seem to publish these numbers- at least not from what I could find using Google Translate and my limited Czech knowledge. So, I mostly had to rely on news articles from the time of introdution and recent statements from ČD about not fitting ETCS, for the more technical part. Drivers in the comments point out that the train is now as reliable as anything else in the fleet, which makes it seem stranger hat these trains won’t have a future with ČD.
@@Simon-Andersen Yeah. I can totally understand it is difficult finding sources. Thats why I was so interested about this video, because I see those regularly in Linz and they run quite reliably now. I had hoped to learn more about the development and early issues and how they were solved. But I totally get this is a hard thing to research. If you really want to dig into it you could maybe ask at CD or Skoda directly. In some cases railways are sharing at least some data or can forward you to better sources. Wish you all the best for your future videos!.
Yes, the last time i took an EC pulled by this locomotive it apparently caught fire an hour outside of Prague! we were halted at a small rural station and the firefighters were called, but i believe it was a false alarm. unfortunately our train was cancelled and we had to be transferred onto the next EC two hours later, which only had one first class coach while ours had had two which were fairly full. I was able to book the last free seat in a moment of quick thinking, and finished my journey relatively comfortable with a 2 hour 10 delay and only a few people's butts in my face. Otherwise these are great locomotives which are apparently well liked for their qualities.
To be honest, the ČD 380 locomotives are nowadays more reliable than Vectons in some way, as I've heard from some train drivers... at least it's built for Czech railway, which has a lot of "pantograph down" spots (because there is a neutral wire section for some electrical reason) and is able to recover from this situation in a matter of seconds (when compared to Vectrons that may run up to 2 minutes without any chance of applying thrust or how to call it properly). Moreover, the start of the locomotive is pretty swift (also compared to Vectron locomotives that České Dráhy operates, too), as the locomotive ČD 380 is able to wake up from "complete dead" state into fully-operational state in less than a minute as I've seen... It's sad they're leaving. The development was maybe too fast for such a train, but I believe that in case the development was done properly, this locomotive would be a really good competitor to Vectron and TRAXX locomotives...
What a shame; it sounds like it had the potential to be so much better. It's strange that the Vectrons seem "worse" from experience, but I'm guessing the reasons for not keeping the 380s around much longer must be a combination of their previous issues, the internal state of the locomotives, and overall reliability. It's probably better now but not good enough to outweigh the complications with installing ECTS in them.
@@Simon-Andersen Definitely. I think that what actually killed 380s from the service is the need of ETCS onboard on most of the lines they used to operate. And because there are only 20 of them (or even less as some got into very awful crashes that resulted in dismantle of these crashed locomotives), there is no way anyone would pay installing ETCS into it, not mentioning that it would be probably done by nobody else than Škoda Transportation (as they've originally built it and thus have the best knowledge of the locomotive layout) which means Škoda would crank the price even higher... They were originally designed for EuroCity trains from Prague to Berlin and Hamburg (replacing class 371 that was designed with outdated technology already), but Germans didn't allow their operation on German railway, which forced ČD to borrow the first 10 Vectrons... Suspiciously, the operation of 380 locomotives was allowed in Germany not long after ČD signed a contract with ELOC on leasing their Vectrons... I don't want to let this comment sound like I hate Germans, but there are too many weird coincidences around Czech locomotives that were supposed to go to Germany in some way (both class 371 and 380 were troublesome, both designed for cross-border operation on the line between Děčín and Bad Schandau)
The train also exists in Germany and the train has replaced the old trains, but you have to imagine that the train replaced the old trains in order to be replaced by the old trains.
In the tender for new trains on the line currently served by the Škoda 109E, the trains specifically have to be newer to prevent the new operator from continuing with these. :P
They should just fit them with ETCS as apparently they were designed to be able to be retrofitted(?) with it, it can't be more expensive than ordering new locos. Also they already know how to maintain these!
Yeah or keep them for lines where ects wont be needed? - I think there might be more to this story than just ETCS is expensive to install, but its all speculation.
As I know there is no room for etcs, so difficult to install. Many company gave advice to install etcs,but they were expensive. With these locos the biggest problem was at the development stage. It was three times expensive than Siemens Taurus bought by máv and now they are close to maintenance which is their first bigger maintenance.
I drive a 380 series locomotive and I can safely say that locomotive has a future in all the defeats of the Siemens Vectron locomotive which shows as very faulty, expensive to operate and maintain for another Vectron has the biggest problem with the ETCS software, which when it loses the locomotive code it automatically dies and it cannot be revived so basically loco 380 is better than Vectron
Maybe from a driver's perspective, but if the ČD 380s were really that reliable, cheap to maintain, and free of issues these days, I’m sure ČD would either pay to equip them with ETCS or deploy them on lines where it’s not required. I also highly doubt that the Vectrons are all that bad from an overall operational perspective, sure they may have some downsides but considering they’re literally everywhere in Europe and still being ordered. That said, I do acknowledge that many drivers now find the 380s very reliable, which is something I should have mentioned in the video.
Škoda 109E is nicknamed Messerschitt between czech train driver and they arent that bad afterall but we are transtioning to ETCS and it would cost more to fit them with ETCS than sell or give them which is an incredibly dumb move from České dráhy even i a student of electric traction like the style of Taurus(class 1016) looking trains but it isnt taurus at all. Its sad to see that these were made for czech railways and cannot be continued.
Yeah, it's interesting that they won't be keeping what now seem to be mostly functional trains around. However, as you mentioned, it’s likely due to a mix of their previous issues, the internal state of the locomotives, and overall reliability. While it’s probably better now, it’s still not good enough to outweigh the complications of installing ECTS in them.
Hello it´s nice to see this positive review of České Dráhy, it doesn´t always looks like this. Have you also tried traveling with the GW Train Regio? (I am working as train condutor there 😄)
No, I didn’t get the chance to travel with GW Train Regio, unfortunately. Our train from Wien to České Velenice was delayed, so by the time we arrived in České Budějovice, we had missed the train to Český Krumlov. I opted to take the bus instead, as the next train wasn’t due for almost two hours. Maybe next time in in CZ!
The design was quite sound, the problems are elsewhere, namely how the project was conceived and how it was (mis)managed at its various stages by both ŠT and ČD at its various stages. As various drivers noted, it's quite pleasant and reliable at the end of the day but the path to get there was long, windy and expensive unfortunately.
Those compartments look very nice (for compartments). Probably the most modern I've seen on a loco hauled train in standard class. My only issue is I just don't like compartments that much. I don't love the idea of sitting opposite someone without much leg room for hours, unless it's a girlfriend, wife or family member!
Yaayy České Budějovice... Immediately recognized my hometown in the first few seconds🤣...I'm not traveling with these so often, but usually i go to Prage multiple times a year, mostly for concerts and I always use the "Jižní expres". I can't recall having single problem since 2017, maybe I just got lucky. It's unfortunate it has such a bad reputation. Honestly I always kinda liked it, and thought it's one of the better looking modern electric locomotives.
Nice video Simon. The problem seems to be the distance between the wheels. This is 2,5 meters. This causes too much damage at high speeds ( above 160 km/h ). Other vehicles that travel at high speed have a distance of 3 meters between the wheels.
I really like the looks of that Skoda 109, thankfully i can use it when playing Transport Fever 2 :) Hehe but that Goggles loco is not the best looking but i like it.
Ukrainian state railways also considered buying those at some point, but then ended up being too broke to buy anything at all. Guess we dodged the proverbial bullet. 😅
I don't want to be posting on multiple social media platforms at the same time, so I plan to switch to Bluesky at some point, as it seems like most of the railway community seems to be moving there. For now, i post on Twitter, but I've reserved my handles over on Bluesky. :-)
Škoda the cars company and Škoda the trains company were the same last time some 80 years ago. :) (Škoda the train company actually agreed to sell its trademark to Škoda Auto in 2022 and cease using it by 2029.)
I miss arguements on the troubles. more like a traintravel and a "repeat"on troubles. they are. With no arguments to me its clear these engines cant be a problem
That's fair, but that's not the type of content I create. I make trip reports sprinkled with the history of the train or route itself. From the first 30 seconds of the video, it's pretty clear that this is a hybrid format, not a deep dive or detailed discussion about these trains. The video title highlights what I deemed the most interesting aspect of the content. A long, literal description like "A trip on the ČD Class 380 train from Český Krumlov to Prague as I talk about the train's history" simply wouldn't be as engaging or perform well with the algorithm. Whether you like it or not, I want people to watch my videos. I also don't understand why you don't view these engines as troublesome. While they now operate more reliably and have been mostly fixed, it took around 10 years to get there-an unacceptably long time for a train expected to function for about 30 years. These trains cannot be considered a success, even if they work decently now. This is further underscored by the fact that ČD is already looking to phase them out after just 15 years of service-roughly half the typical lifespan of a train.
Them being better now doesn't change their past, which was quite the disaster, as clearly explained in the video. Even though they have improved after about a 10-year period of fixing childhood symptoms (roughly one-third of an average train's lifespan), I certainly still wouldn't call them "good." I, at least, can't see why CD would be looking to retire "good," reliable, working locomotives after just 15 years of service when there are still smaller non-ECTS lines using locomotives. Perhaps it's more likely a combination of their previous issues, the internal state of the locomotives, overall reliability, and complications with installing ECTS in them.
@@Simon-AndersenThis argument seems odd. You simply didn't know this, would've sounded much better if you simply pinned a comment stating you had no idea these locs' reliability has vastly improved over the last few years. You also promised in the opening to explain why these were (indeed) so troublesome, which you didn't. So basically a clickbait. I really enjoy watching from time to time but I simply had higher expectations for the factual part which was completely missing.
@@skrble Sorry, but I can't recognize most of what you're saying. While it might have been worth mentioning that reliability improved after 7-10 years, now that im aware. I don’t see how this changes the video or the story of these trains. The original issues-reliability troubles, lawsuits, delays, and lack of approval to operate in intended countries are well documented. (As explained in the video 8:56-10:10 with multiple references) It’s ofc normal for new trains to have some problems in the first couple of years, but the extensive delays and ongoing reliability issues for many years afterwards, make it clear these trains were a failure. This is further supported by the Germans pulling them from service soon and ČD refusing to invest in ETCS or using them on other lines after just 15 years, despite locomotives typically lasting 30+ years. (also mentioned in the video) All of this was addressed in the video, so I really don’t see how improved reliability now changes the videos overall accuracy, story or makes it clickbait.
There is a ouigo train that travels from bruxelles to paris. Its a classic train that looks similar to this one from the outside. The ticket only cost €25.
No, I disagree. "Czechia's" shows that the failure belongs to the country, and I'm clearly referring to the country of Czechia's storied locomotive-building history. "Czech" is just a descriptive word for anything related to Czech culture or origin and doesn’t indicate ownership, so it doesn’t fit here.
@@Simon-Andersen Shouldn't it be "Škoda's biggest train design failure?"? Škoda is who made this locomotive. Not country itself. For me as czech citizen, "Czechia's" sounds super strange and ugly. And yea, I am Czech citizen, not Czechia's citizen. That's why I am commenting, sorry :)
@@AvEtheDJ No worries! Yes, "Škoda's" would be more specific. However, it a conscious decision to not use "Škoda's" I'm trying to target a broad audience on RUclips, and a chunk of those might not be familiar with Škoda, especially if they're not railway enthusiasts or from Europe. It also leaves the question open to include other older and smaller train manufacturers that have historically built trains in Czechia. 🙂 Of course, you are a citizen of the country Czechia, and those people are called Czechs. However, in English, that term is typically reserved for people, not objects. So i don't really understand why Czechia's sounds so stange to you in this context. Would you say "Hungarian worst train" or "Hungary's worst train"?
@@Simon-Andersen hmm, I would go with "Hungarian worst train" or "the worst train in Hungary". Sure, I am not native English speaker and I do mistakes all the time. But "Czechia's" seems really wrong to me :)
Czechia has really low wages compared to germany and austria. But the services are quite cheap. People want higher wages, but they dont realise how much would all the services cost if everyone should have wages like in austria. I have traveled in austria from Spital an der Drau to Bad Gastein, just 25 minutes and I remember the ticket was also around 10 euros.
Why didn't you take the 1st class? Also, why didn't you drink beer on tap on a train in CZECHIA?. And shame about the loco. It's not like Škoda are new to locomotive and train business, so they should have done better.
I try to travel in the least busy carriages to avoid disturbing others when making these videos, and on this train, it seems like second class often has a lot of empty space, but first class is quite popular! As for the beer, I’m not sure-probably just wasn’t in the mood since I’ve had plenty on CD before. :P
I have this in Train Simulator but never could figure out how to make it work, now I can just blame it all on bad design and not my lack of an owners manual!
links don't come through neither full nor broken so if you want something to feed to google and then to translator, google for: - "hlavní jízdní páka" návod - "Návod k obsluze třísystémové elektrické lokomotivy ŠKODA 109E ČD 380" The literal operation manual for 109E is returned for the second term, the first term yields a shorter manual for refurbished classes 163/363 which should be based on the same principles.
@@iuliandragomir1 Clearly explained within the first 30 seconds of the video this is a mix of a trip and backstory. Didn't watch from 8:55, where the problems, delays issues and future about these trains was explained including multiple sources. Disliked for posting nonsense
@@iuliandragomir1 Yes you are. Please point me to where the title, the intro or in the rest of the video I claim there will be a technical explanation of the failures. I use the word trouble. The first part of the title is a open question and opinion. The second part is explained in the most detail around 8:55 which clearly shows proof that these trains weren't properly designed and took years to fix, evident by their multiple year delay intro service, lack of safety approvals, combined with reliability issues that has only improved in recent years. You don't have to like the video, that's fine. But it was you who set the expectation that there was gonna be details of the technical issues, not me, the title or the video. You could just have commented, I'd like to see a more detailed explanation of the technical part of the issues, that would have been valuable feedback and you wouldn't have had to post nonsense 😃
@@iuliandragomir1 You don't have to believe that these trains are a failure. But that's your opinion, not a fault with the video. - Which you could just have said initially. I've shown plenty of evidence that these trains can be considered both a failure and fiasco. Their late delivery, reliability issues and lack of approvals and certification. Meets the dictionary definition of both words which do not require there to be technical issues with them. - Heck it could be management only and still be considered both. Only you set an arbitrary requirement for technical issues after I called out your bullshit. Your comments amounts to nothing but YOU having different expectations from what's actually stated by the title, intro and rest of the video. Which no matter how you try to deflect and move the goal post is still not my fault or something I need to change about the video.
The 109s are now as reliable as all the other locomotives, and the train drivers are praising their power (7.2MW), which is even higher than that of the Vectrons or Taurus models (6.4MW) (and it's noticeable).
Shame it took so long for them to have their issues fixed to operate reliably enough that ČD had to seek other locomotives. Potentially, ČD could have had a lot more of these.
Its about the Traction not about the *MW Taurus and Vectron are simple better faster and More Good Designed. The Queen is still the German 101 with 7,7 MW.❤😂🎉 7,3
The information is quite misleading and biased. The locomotive was particularly unlucky to be born at the crossroads of changes in European rail transport. The changes were related to safety standards. The design and equipment of the locomotive had to be changed in order to be able to sell it to the customer and operate it. This caused some of the delivery delays. Another reason was the reluctance of neighboring states to let it onto their railway network. While permission to operate in Poland, Slovakia, Hungary did not take long. Austria and Germany rejected the locomotive. Austria eventually relented, but DB continued to refuse to allow the locomotive onto its rail network. The reasons were not so much technical as political. Germany was upset that Czech Railways chose a domestic locomotive manufacturer and not their manufacturer - Siemens. In the end, however, the locomotive was allowed to run on their tracks, and after some time, a private German carrier ordered entire trains with the same type of locomotive. And when it comes to operational unreliability, České dráhy themselves are to blame. Due to poor maintenance, the locomotive suffered from frequent breakdowns. Which is nothing unusual for only twenty pieces of a brand new type. And ETCS? The locomotive has already counted on this safety device and there is a place for the installation in the engine room. Unfortunately, ETCS kits for use in older locomotives are considerably overpriced, and modifications to 20 locomotives would simply not be worthwhile for Czech Railways.
This comment is quite hypocritical and biased, filled with numerous unsourced claims and speculations. Let me adress: "The changes were related to safety standards. The design and equipment of the locomotive had to be changed in order to be able to sell it to the customer and operate it. This caused some of the delivery delays." - Is a fair and valid comment, although there is not much public information on the specifics. Overall, it was probably only a small part of the much larger issues. "While permission to operate in Poland, Slovakia, Hungary did not take long. Austria and Germany rejected the locomotive. Austria eventually relented, but DB continued to refuse to allow the locomotive onto its rail network. The reasons were not so much technical as political. Germany was upset that Czech Railways chose a domestic locomotive manufacturer and not their manufacturer - Siemens. In the end, however, the locomotive was allowed to run on their tracks, and after some time, a private German carrier ordered entire trains with the same type of locomotive." - All you are saying is pure speculation. The claim that Germany acted this way simply because it was a foreign locomotive is not supported by any sources, statements, or evidence from Škoda, ČD, or the Czech or German authorities. Germany is known for having strict and sometimes lengthy approval processes for new trains, and the 380 is no exception. Just consider the new Talgo trains for DB or the CAF trains for Schönbuchbahn, both of which are currently facing similar challenges. Every single Vectron in ČD's passenger fleet has gone through a tender process that was open to all interested parties. There was no direct selection of the Vectron for political reasons, and claiming otherwise is misleading and biased. The only 109Es delivered to Germany were for DB Regio (the state operator), and they faced similar approval and reliability issues as the 380 in the Czech Republic. Furthermore, their retirement has already been announced, as they no longer meet the requirements for the next operating tender, which specifies that trains must be built from 2020 onwards. The 109Es are from 2019. It's hard not to draw the conclusion that the operator and traffic buyer, is unhappy with the preformance of these trains even today. "And when it comes to operational unreliability, České dráhy themselves are to blame. Due to poor maintenance, the locomotive suffered from frequent breakdowns. Which is nothing unusual for only twenty pieces of a brand new type. And ETCS? The locomotive has already counted on this safety device and there is a place for the installation in the engine room. Unfortunately, ETCS kits for use in older locomotives are considerably overpriced, and modifications to 20 locomotives would simply not be worthwhile for Czech Railways." Again, this is not corroborated by any public sources. There is ample evidence, as shown in videos with cited articles and press releases from the time, that ČD was unhappy with the reliability of these locomotives straight out of the factory and for multiple years afterward, before stabilizing somewhat in recent years. A few teething problems in the first few years and minor delays in delivery are normal and not particularly noteworthy. However, experiencing nearly 8-10 years of substatial issues after the originally promised delivery date, combined with the fact that the sister locomotive for DB faced similar problems, and both the operator and traffic buyer has expressed dissatisfaction, paints a clear picture that this is not just a "ČD maintenance team issue". Additionally, ZSSK only ever ordered two units, and 381 002 has reportedly not been seen in working order for months, further supporting this narrative. Quite a few drivers and Czech railway enthusiasts claim that Škoda left some internal space for ETCS signaling equipment. Unfortunately, it appears that this space is insufficient, making the installation of ETCS even more costly. I cannot verify this claim, but it’s not something neither ČD or Škoda can necessarily be blamed for. A series of 20 locomotives is not insignificant, and considering the average train typically has a lifespan of 30+ years, the inability to find use for them outside of ETCS lines- or to justify the expense of fitting ETCS to them -clearly indicates that ČD's own evaluation of these locomotives is not particularly favorable. Even after becoming more reliable, they are still far from being considered a success. Your comment contains numerous unsubstantial claims not backed by public evidence and demonstrates a clear bias toward Škoda, shifting blame away from them at every possible opportunity. Wild claims, such as a secret German political train approval agenda or ČD's inability to maintain these train, are unsubstantiated and show clear bias.
@@Simon-Andersen The claims can be substantiated, but I cannot publish internal company communications. However, with a little effort, some fragments can be found publicly. For example, the detention of one locomotive as if in a pawn in Austria. In a hall where rival company had access. Obstruction of the German railway network operator DB-Netz. In May 2015, the German Federal Railway Authority (EBA) also approved the 380 series for operation in Germany. However, DB Netz refuses unrestricted use due to alleged problems with vibrations caused by the bogie when driving on bridges. That is why EC trains from Prague to Dresden continue to be run by older multi-system Škoda series 371/372 locomotives. And this was at a time when a competition was taking place for the operation of trains on the said route. The search could be continued, but it is obviously pointless. What is strange is that in the discussion, the assessment of those who directly drove the locomotive does not sound bad.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
They were troublesome in the beginning, but now they are as reliable as any other locomotive. From what I have seen, many train drivers even got along with them, and some are even sad about their early retirement now. And I think they still have future, just not in Czechia under ETCS. Maybe somewhere in the East or in the Balkans.
balkan - true winner of ETCS transition imho
They are still really bad and they have so many problems.
That's the main reason of retirement, small numbers of these locos would made ETCS implementation unprofitable
Yeah, it's interesting that they won't be keeping what now seem to be mostly functional trains around. It's probably due to a mix of their previous issues, the internal state of the locomotives, and overall reliability, which is likely better now but still not good enough to outweigh the complications and costs of installing ECTS in them. It'll be funny if they end up hauling passenger trains in the Balkans or something, but even places like Bulgaria are now getting Vectrons.
@@Simon-Andersen smartron loks 25kv only
At least they're not getting scrapped. ČD themselves said they're in talks with a Turkish cargo carrier, who's interested in these locomotives.
Can you share a source for that I would like to read it as Turkish person.
It's the "České dráhy jednají o prodeji lokomotiv 380 nákladnímu dopravci v Turecku" article on zDopravy.
Am I the only one who hears “15 years ago” and assumes that means sometime in the 90s?
You're not alone!
1990 is prehistoric
Hey! I work for Hungarian Federal Railways, and I have driven a lot of the 380's. They were a lot of fun back in the day, much simpler than class 350's or V43's. Only problem was the space inside the locomotive, as it was limited and 2 people could only fit if one of them sat on an uncomfortable, collapsible wooden "chair". Other than that, we all enjoyed hauling it, now there's only Vectron's, and the ComfortJet soon. Will definetly miss these locomotives in Hungary, and I'm glad I could serve on them. If you have any question's about the driving aspects, feel free to let me know, I have a lot of stories!
Also, the best feature of the locomotive for us were the easy change between the cabs. Old ZSSK locomotives (etc.: 350,363) always needed to have the pantograph down when changing cabs, because there was a risk of getting electrocuted. The first ride with the 380 for me, was definetly a lifechanger ( it was the 380-001, I was one of the first hungarian drivers to get the license on this locomotive). The buttons are straightforward, errors are easily fixable via the touchscreen (it helps you get the root cause of the error). I certainly enjoy people bringing up this locomotive, it makes me happy, and I'm very grateful to still find videos of this loco. If anyone has any questions, feel free to let me know.
Thanks for the detailed insights! Always pleased to hear from people who know about these trains! - I understand they are a lot more reliable now and a lot of drivers have grown a liking to them. Shame they were so troublesome in the early years, otherwise CD might have a lot of these instead of the vectrons :D
They came with a lot of trouble at first, haha. Soon before their retirement, I had a problem near Nagymaros and Göd, because the UIC cable of the PKP carriage malfunctioned, and the whole loco just shut off randomly (about 40 minutes later it worked again). That's when I realized that even though they have been years of software updates, they still have bugs inside of them. As for the drivers liking these, certainly would say yes. 70th line drivers (which connects Budapest-Nyugati and Sturovo) grew up on this locomotive, and were sad seeing them leave. As for me, I enjoyed mixed EC's and EN's, when you didn't know if you would get a 350,362 or a 380. Nowadays it's just Vectron's. I still drive on this line, and it's a little bit boring now with only Vectron's. Same procedures and same locomotive's do tire you out faster. I'm thankful on the behalf of the other Skoda drivers too, and will certainly show them this video!
I found old footage of me driving the locomotive 380 002, from 2014. Take a look! ruclips.net/video/KgIqTIYftz0/видео.html
Are there some major pros and cons compared to the other locomotives? Thank you for your interesting info!
I have been hauled by all 20 x 380 locos and never had one completely fail as such. However on one very troublesome run with 380007 it wasn’t well and was working an EC to Budapest and we had a number of sudden emergency stops in Southern Slovakia and Hungary. It did not return from Budapest as booked and was hauled dead back to Bratislava on its return working.
Many journeys and most have been fine but the 380 does have a chequered history.
I can also confirm that the route from Krumlov to Bud is really scenic and worth a trip!
2:46 In Germany we nickname these locos "Taucherbrille" (diving goggles).
In Poland we call them ,,Nurek,, (scuba diver)
Fun fact the wagon you are traveling in is a former ÖBB one. They where build in the late 1970s and early 1980s. The ÖBB sold a huge proportion of his older rolling stock in the 2010s when most of the RailJets 1. Generation had arrived. Now in the 2020s the ÖBB has an extremly high shortage of long distance train material. Therfore they rent old knackered DB wagons (the same as you can also see in the video at one point xD)
Many say, it would have been best to not sold so many carriages to Ceske Drahy and RegioJet...
I cannot get over the fact that we sold these super comfortable train cars and I had to travel in a 1980 s-Bahn carriage (city shuttle) with a hole in the ground as a toilet for more than 4 hours through Austria. It’s a disgrace.
And now they ordered Siemens Mireo commuter trains as that are intended for long haul travel…
@@paddybm3245 Perhaps one thing that the ÖBB really likes more about the CityShuttle units over the compartment wagons ist that they are way more flexible. Use of the compartment wagons in S-Bahn or even REX services would be quite nightmare with the extremely slow passenger change. And the flexibility which the CityShuttle units offer is good used by the ÖBB. Furthermore in so called Camel trains when they are pared with Desto carriages.
I am not quite sure but I believe also this older wagons are not "druckertüchtigt"? Which is also a drawback and no benefit over the city shuttle...
But clearly the city shuttle is outdated in 2025 and I believe even the compartment units aren't modern when you compare it to the RailJet with its open gangway design :)
The borders between long distance and short distance trains are getting smaller but I hope that the 31 Siemens Mireo which are ordered for the "Inlandverkehr" will have a better equipment than the Desiro ML which in fact are only a temporary solution :)
But then offer the flexibility to be used on the S-Bahn Vienna service^^
Surely flexibility is a huge benefit for a railway company like the ÖBB
formerly orange Eurofima coaches and former Reichsbahn coaches.
That's going to be interesting in April, when my wife and I plan to travel from Vienna airport to St Pölten/Krems, and back to Vienna. 🙂
That could also be our Belgian passenger car, we started to sell those in 2015 to a Czech company.
We had 380 008 on our Budapest to Prague service, almost 1,5 years ago. Apart from the delays caused by other factors - emergency aid for sick traveller in Budapest Nyugati, +35 minutes and several stops in Slovakia to give way for oncoming trafic, 008 managed to recover some of the delay. We even shouted that if the train kept its 63 minutes delay, we would be reimbursed 1/3 of the cost of our tickets, meaning more beers for us lads. But it pulled in Praha hlavni nadrazi with 57 minutes and we lost the bet 😂
Never ever had any issues. Did haul my trains between Praha, Bratislava and Budapest with no delays. Did one run behind 381 002-5 out of Bratislava and again, no problems. I find them a good looking locomotive but sadly, the Vectron-disease is not to be stopped...
Exactly. They could just fit them with ETCS and if they don't want them then sell them to another railway, maybe Slovenske Železnice, they could increase capacity or replace older locomotives with the 380s.
And unlike Vectrons they are pleasing to the eye. I think the vectrons with a different body shell would be more aesthetically pleasing but to me they look boxy and a bit like they were inspired by trucks for some reason.
@that1niceguy246 The quote CD received in 2022 for fitting the ETCS was 44.3 billions CZK per unit, which was the market value of the whole locomotive (and I guess such projects rarely go without issues).
A few months ago I had a short breakdown from Freistadt to Linz with train EC 337 - Loco. was a ČD380 - While going downhill to Linz emergency stop in the middle of nowhere on a single track line because no air was left in the braking system. It took 15-20min to get the train running again.
I use them every winter + summer to visit my grandparents, I never experienced any problems with them and noticed that since the timetable change they're also used on the R services between Prague an C Budejovice.
Yes, i think most of their work is now concentrated on service down to Ceske Budejovice as they can no longer operate on Prague - Budapest because of ECTS soon being a requirement for that route :D
About these locomotives, it is complicated. Although I do agree in the beginning, I certainly don't agree with claim that they are unreliable. These locos were unreliable, but are now as any other locomotive. Every piece of equipment, including locomotives, will always have some issues, some common issues - it doesn't matter whether it is Vectron, 109E, 362, TRAXX MS2/3... I have heard from many train drivers praise for these locomotives. They have very good electronics, fairly good acceleration, only 2 pantographs (even though they can operate on 3 systems - 3kV DC, 25kV AC 50 Hz and 15kV 16,7 Hz) and these days one of the more reliable ones. It is possible to mount them with ETCS, it is just incompetency of České Dráhy and their inability to manage vehicles. The most common arguments are - 1. it would be too expensive, 2. there is no place to mount it (even though there is enough space, they were prepared for ETCS since manufacturing), 3. they are in their half life. I have never had problem with 380 hauling my train, and I am (and I was) traveling with them a lot. It is sad that those locos are probably about to be sold to Balkans or Turkey. It is 19 interoperable locomotives with the ability to mount them with ETCS, with good top speed and good electronics. It truly is a shame. (Note: I don't claim them to be 100% reliable and they certainly have some shortcomings or other facts (for example relatively small cab for train driver, they are very short and they have narrow wheelbase chassis)).
They are all trash that,s it sweethart.❤ Nothing Compared tho the DB 101 which is the best of the best.😅
@AliasTaurusVectron1212Liam Oh how do you know? Have you ever talked to anyone who was driving them?
Yeah, it's very interesting that they now seem to be working at least as reliably as everything else CD has locomotive-wise, but they are still heading for retirement. I'm guessing the reasons for not keeping the 380s around much longer must be a combination of their previous issues, the internal state of the locomotives, and overall reliability. It's probably better now but still not good enough to outweigh the complications with installing ECTS in them. I'd love to see CD post a reliability graph! My home railway, DSB, makes it public every few months how many kilometers each type of train drives on average before a failure causing a train delay.
@@Simon-Andersen It's also a series of a mere 20 locomotives, with very few other ones operating elsewhere. So, the risks of increasing repair costs etc are quite substantial.
@@Simon-Andersen I would say ETCS is pretty much the reason. +they are not allowed in Germany.
There are not many of them and ČD won't be buying more. ETCS is specialy developed for every loco type. So the less locos of the type, the more expensive it gets.
I love these trains, they are so pretty, my favourite train of all time, sadly they are gonna be decomisioned....
You don't need to hope that the locomotive will stay together anymore. Despite their initial child diseases, they are now pretty reliable. And what's better they are prepared for service on czech railway network much better than all those fancy german locos, which are not able to use dynamic brake without raised pantograph (since they lack brake resistor) and it take ages to them to get alive again after all those phase-locks on czech railway network. 380s are maybe not the most comfortable locos in the world (since they are pretty short) but their software is really nice and I guess their creators didn't use Google Translator for other than domestic language versions like Siemens did... 🤣
That's very interesting. It's surprising that it seems like they are not being kept around for service on non-ECTS lines. I guess it be a combination of their previous issues, reliability being better but still not amazing, and the internal state of the locomotives, that just makes them not worth to operate for CD.
@@Simon-Andersen I guess that the main reason is the price of ETCS retro-fit (as they call installation of ETCS into older locos, at least in Czech republic). There is just 20 pieces of these locos so the cost is very high unfortunately... 😏
The locos are completely fine in terms of reliability now. Never had a breakdown with them in recent years. The huge reason why they are being retired from mainline authority is ETCS. From what I'm told, the existing EVC (computing unit for train-side ETCS) is too big to fit anywhere on the loco, and developing a different EVC just for the number of these locos is not economically viable.. other than that, it's quite a powerful loco and looks quite nice too.. a bit of a shame. @@Simon-Andersen
Interesting, thanks! For me Ceske Drahy is the best value and most reliable rail company I've experienced in Europe.
Nice video, though I expected more in depth technical analysis of the issues. Maybe split the travel log and technical discussions into separate videos or use the chapters feature. Other than that it's a nice trip.
Thanks, Tobias! I see how the title could be perceived that way. l try to make it clear within the first 30 seconds that this is a hybrid between a trip report and a technical discussion format, perhaps i need to have a more clear structure. It was also really challenging to find reliable data about performance over time, as ČD doesn’t seem to publish these numbers- at least not from what I could find using Google Translate and my limited Czech knowledge. So, I mostly had to rely on news articles from the time of introdution and recent statements from ČD about not fitting ETCS, for the more technical part. Drivers in the comments point out that the train is now as reliable as anything else in the fleet, which makes it seem stranger hat these trains won’t have a future with ČD.
@@Simon-Andersen Yeah. I can totally understand it is difficult finding sources. Thats why I was so interested about this video, because I see those regularly in Linz and they run quite reliably now. I had hoped to learn more about the development and early issues and how they were solved.
But I totally get this is a hard thing to research.
If you really want to dig into it you could maybe ask at CD or Skoda directly. In some cases railways are sharing at least some data or can forward you to better sources.
Wish you all the best for your future videos!.
Greetings from the Czech Republic. Very nice video. As for the route, I change trains in České Budějovice and go via Pilsen to Prague.
Yes, the last time i took an EC pulled by this locomotive it apparently caught fire an hour outside of Prague! we were halted at a small rural station and the firefighters were called, but i believe it was a false alarm. unfortunately our train was cancelled and we had to be transferred onto the next EC two hours later, which only had one first class coach while ours had had two which were fairly full. I was able to book the last free seat in a moment of quick thinking, and finished my journey relatively comfortable with a 2 hour 10 delay and only a few people's butts in my face. Otherwise these are great locomotives which are apparently well liked for their qualities.
what a very nice video i enjoyed it quite a bit. grettings from Deutschland =)
To be honest, the ČD 380 locomotives are nowadays more reliable than Vectons in some way, as I've heard from some train drivers...
at least it's built for Czech railway, which has a lot of "pantograph down" spots (because there is a neutral wire section for some electrical reason) and is able to recover from this situation in a matter of seconds (when compared to Vectrons that may run up to 2 minutes without any chance of applying thrust or how to call it properly). Moreover, the start of the locomotive is pretty swift (also compared to Vectron locomotives that České Dráhy operates, too), as the locomotive ČD 380 is able to wake up from "complete dead" state into fully-operational state in less than a minute as I've seen...
It's sad they're leaving. The development was maybe too fast for such a train, but I believe that in case the development was done properly, this locomotive would be a really good competitor to Vectron and TRAXX locomotives...
What a shame; it sounds like it had the potential to be so much better. It's strange that the Vectrons seem "worse" from experience, but I'm guessing the reasons for not keeping the 380s around much longer must be a combination of their previous issues, the internal state of the locomotives, and overall reliability. It's probably better now but not good enough to outweigh the complications with installing ECTS in them.
@@Simon-Andersen Definitely. I think that what actually killed 380s from the service is the need of ETCS onboard on most of the lines they used to operate. And because there are only 20 of them (or even less as some got into very awful crashes that resulted in dismantle of these crashed locomotives), there is no way anyone would pay installing ETCS into it, not mentioning that it would be probably done by nobody else than Škoda Transportation (as they've originally built it and thus have the best knowledge of the locomotive layout) which means Škoda would crank the price even higher...
They were originally designed for EuroCity trains from Prague to Berlin and Hamburg (replacing class 371 that was designed with outdated technology already), but Germans didn't allow their operation on German railway, which forced ČD to borrow the first 10 Vectrons... Suspiciously, the operation of 380 locomotives was allowed in Germany not long after ČD signed a contract with ELOC on leasing their Vectrons...
I don't want to let this comment sound like I hate Germans, but there are too many weird coincidences around Czech locomotives that were supposed to go to Germany in some way (both class 371 and 380 were troublesome, both designed for cross-border operation on the line between Děčín and Bad Schandau)
The train also exists in Germany and the train has replaced the old trains, but you have to imagine that the train replaced the old trains in order to be replaced by the old trains.
In the tender for new trains on the line currently served by the Škoda 109E, the trains specifically have to be newer to prevent the new operator from continuing with these. :P
The Škoda 109E is my mom’s favourite locomotive
They should just fit them with ETCS as apparently they were designed to be able to be retrofitted(?) with it, it can't be more expensive than ordering new locos. Also they already know how to maintain these!
Yeah or keep them for lines where ects wont be needed? - I think there might be more to this story than just ETCS is expensive to install, but its all speculation.
As I know there is no room for etcs, so difficult to install. Many company gave advice to install etcs,but they were expensive. With these locos the biggest problem was at the development stage. It was three times expensive than Siemens Taurus bought by máv and now they are close to maintenance which is their first bigger maintenance.
Czech Republic, the first place I saw a variant of the crocodile locomotive still in use.
I drive a 380 series locomotive and I can safely say that locomotive has a future in all the defeats of the Siemens Vectron locomotive which shows as very faulty, expensive to operate and maintain for another Vectron has the biggest problem with the ETCS software, which when it loses the locomotive code it automatically dies and it cannot be revived so basically loco 380 is better than Vectron
Maybe from a driver's perspective, but if the ČD 380s were really that reliable, cheap to maintain, and free of issues these days, I’m sure ČD would either pay to equip them with ETCS or deploy them on lines where it’s not required. I also highly doubt that the Vectrons are all that bad from an overall operational perspective, sure they may have some downsides but considering they’re literally everywhere in Europe and still being ordered. That said, I do acknowledge that many drivers now find the 380s very reliable, which is something I should have mentioned in the video.
Those DMUs at the beginning look suspiciously like DB class 628
Thats because they are second hand!
Škoda 109E is nicknamed Messerschitt between czech train driver and they arent that bad afterall but we are transtioning to ETCS and it would cost more to fit them with ETCS than sell or give them which is an incredibly dumb move from České dráhy even i a student of electric traction like the style of Taurus(class 1016) looking trains but it isnt taurus at all. Its sad to see that these were made for czech railways and cannot be continued.
Yeah, it's interesting that they won't be keeping what now seem to be mostly functional trains around. However, as you mentioned, it’s likely due to a mix of their previous issues, the internal state of the locomotives, and overall reliability. While it’s probably better now, it’s still not good enough to outweigh the complications of installing ECTS in them.
380 - Emil Zatopek
Hi! When is the new latvian electric train vid coming? I can't wait!!!
Some time within the next 2 months :-)
Hello it´s nice to see this positive review of České Dráhy, it doesn´t always looks like this. Have you also tried traveling with the GW Train Regio? (I am working as train condutor there 😄)
No, I didn’t get the chance to travel with GW Train Regio, unfortunately. Our train from Wien to České Velenice was delayed, so by the time we arrived in České Budějovice, we had missed the train to Český Krumlov. I opted to take the bus instead, as the next train wasn’t due for almost two hours. Maybe next time in in CZ!
The design was quite sound, the problems are elsewhere, namely how the project was conceived and how it was (mis)managed at its various stages by both ŠT and ČD at its various stages. As various drivers noted, it's quite pleasant and reliable at the end of the day but the path to get there was long, windy and expensive unfortunately.
Very nice and detailed video, like😁
i acutally like the looks of this locomotive! happy that they made it on the rails
Damn, cars, cars paintings interior and stations so similar as in Hungary, basically same..
Those compartments look very nice (for compartments). Probably the most modern I've seen on a loco hauled train in standard class. My only issue is I just don't like compartments that much. I don't love the idea of sitting opposite someone without much leg room for hours, unless it's a girlfriend, wife or family member!
Same, but as this was the least busy part of the train on this journey, i actually picked a compartment which is rare!
1:18 - you are supposed to change the train in Budějovice, nobody is waiting whole day for direct train 😀
Yup :D
Nejlepší lokomotiva v Evropě👍
Yaayy České Budějovice... Immediately recognized my hometown in the first few seconds🤣...I'm not traveling with these so often, but usually i go to Prage multiple times a year, mostly for concerts and I always use the "Jižní expres". I can't recall having single problem since 2017, maybe I just got lucky. It's unfortunate it has such a bad reputation. Honestly I always kinda liked it, and thought it's one of the better looking modern electric locomotives.
Apparently they have gotten much more reliable in recent years and ofc even an unreliable train, your odds are still quite small :D
Cool train!
Not gonna lie, I expected them to be much older when I first saw the design
Nice video Simon.
The problem seems to be the distance between the wheels. This is 2,5 meters. This causes too much damage at high speeds ( above 160 km/h ). Other vehicles that travel at high speed have a distance of 3 meters between the wheels.
Could deffo also be playing a part in their early retirement
What recording technique do you use for your videos? The quality of your recordings are so excellent.
I use a Dji osmo action 3 camera on a dji stick.
I really like the looks of that Skoda 109, thankfully i can use it when playing Transport Fever 2 :)
Hehe but that Goggles loco is not the best looking but i like it.
It reminds me a lot of the train from the Sparta Praha hooligans movie.
😂
Do you often travel in Czech republic?
Yes quite often! Its one of my favorite countries in Europe
@@Simon-Andersen You have to try some regional Czech trains
@@vasek2261 I have a video recorded on a Panter that ill release at some point during the year :-)
@@Simon-Andersen nice, I am really interested what do you think about these trains.
Ukrainian state railways also considered buying those at some point, but then ended up being too broke to buy anything at all.
Guess we dodged the proverbial bullet. 😅
Apparently, they are more reliable now after about 10 years, but yeah, neither DB, CD, nor ZSSK seem happy with their purchases. :P
Excellent video
Simon, I follow you on BlueSky but there are no posts yet. Will you start posting there as well?
I don't want to be posting on multiple social media platforms at the same time, so I plan to switch to Bluesky at some point, as it seems like most of the railway community seems to be moving there. For now, i post on Twitter, but I've reserved my handles over on Bluesky. :-)
It's funny that škoda 362 whitch is from 80s and 90s now have ETCS.
Maybe they can regear them and sell them to one of the endless private freight companies who keep popping up?
I think there are roumers of them going to either turkey or the balkans
Slavic countries love to make funny looking locomotives.
I think škoda is somewhat improving with the designs anyway
For sure, Škoda isn’t bad overall, but this one wasn’t their proudest model. :P
@Simon-Andersen Perhaps, RegioPanter, in turn, might be their best model.
@@Jacobczechia14 for sure! Really solid trains for what they are built to do. Gonna have to try one of the new battery ones soon
@@Simon-Andersen I especially like the fact that they fully replaced the ČD 460 units that i hated
They call the goggled loco "the diver" in Poland.
Maybe Škoda will stick to building cars from now on lol
They build the Interjet and confortjet cars with Siemens
Probably not, they make a lot of other good trains, this one just had a lot of problems :D
Škoda the cars company and Škoda the trains company were the same last time some 80 years ago. :)
(Škoda the train company actually agreed to sell its trademark to Škoda Auto in 2022 and cease using it by 2029.)
I miss arguements on the troubles. more like a traintravel and a "repeat"on troubles. they are. With no arguments to me its clear these engines cant be a problem
That's fair, but that's not the type of content I create. I make trip reports sprinkled with the history of the train or route itself. From the first 30 seconds of the video, it's pretty clear that this is a hybrid format, not a deep dive or detailed discussion about these trains.
The video title highlights what I deemed the most interesting aspect of the content. A long, literal description like "A trip on the ČD Class 380 train from Český Krumlov to Prague as I talk about the train's history" simply wouldn't be as engaging or perform well with the algorithm. Whether you like it or not, I want people to watch my videos.
I also don't understand why you don't view these engines as troublesome. While they now operate more reliably and have been mostly fixed, it took around 10 years to get there-an unacceptably long time for a train expected to function for about 30 years. These trains cannot be considered a success, even if they work decently now. This is further underscored by the fact that ČD is already looking to phase them out after just 15 years of service-roughly half the typical lifespan of a train.
Sad the Germans looks so good but are not working properly.
nowdays they are very reliable, not bad as author trying to give us, shame on you simon!
Them being better now doesn't change their past, which was quite the disaster, as clearly explained in the video. Even though they have improved after about a 10-year period of fixing childhood symptoms (roughly one-third of an average train's lifespan), I certainly still wouldn't call them "good." I, at least, can't see why CD would be looking to retire "good," reliable, working locomotives after just 15 years of service when there are still smaller non-ECTS lines using locomotives. Perhaps it's more likely a combination of their previous issues, the internal state of the locomotives, overall reliability, and complications with installing ECTS in them.
@@Simon-AndersenThis argument seems odd. You simply didn't know this, would've sounded much better if you simply pinned a comment stating you had no idea these locs' reliability has vastly improved over the last few years.
You also promised in the opening to explain why these were (indeed) so troublesome, which you didn't. So basically a clickbait.
I really enjoy watching from time to time but I simply had higher expectations for the factual part which was completely missing.
@@skrble Sorry, but I can't recognize most of what you're saying. While it might have been worth mentioning that reliability improved after 7-10 years, now that im aware. I don’t see how this changes the video or the story of these trains. The original issues-reliability troubles, lawsuits, delays, and lack of approval to operate in intended countries are well documented. (As explained in the video 8:56-10:10 with multiple references)
It’s ofc normal for new trains to have some problems in the first couple of years, but the extensive delays and ongoing reliability issues for many years afterwards, make it clear these trains were a failure. This is further supported by the Germans pulling them from service soon and ČD refusing to invest in ETCS or using them on other lines after just 15 years, despite locomotives typically lasting 30+ years. (also mentioned in the video)
All of this was addressed in the video, so I really don’t see how improved reliability now changes the videos overall accuracy, story or makes it clickbait.
There is a ouigo train that travels from bruxelles to paris. Its a classic train that looks similar to this one from the outside. The ticket only cost €25.
10 euros even, if you book very early
Not "Czechia's", but "Czech" 🙂
No, I disagree. "Czechia's" shows that the failure belongs to the country, and I'm clearly referring to the country of Czechia's storied locomotive-building history. "Czech" is just a descriptive word for anything related to Czech culture or origin and doesn’t indicate ownership, so it doesn’t fit here.
@@Simon-Andersen Shouldn't it be "Škoda's biggest train design failure?"? Škoda is who made this locomotive. Not country itself. For me as czech citizen, "Czechia's" sounds super strange and ugly. And yea, I am Czech citizen, not Czechia's citizen. That's why I am commenting, sorry :)
@@AvEtheDJ No worries! Yes, "Škoda's" would be more specific. However, it a conscious decision to not use "Škoda's" I'm trying to target a broad audience on RUclips, and a chunk of those might not be familiar with Škoda, especially if they're not railway enthusiasts or from Europe. It also leaves the question open to include other older and smaller train manufacturers that have historically built trains in Czechia. 🙂
Of course, you are a citizen of the country Czechia, and those people are called Czechs. However, in English, that term is typically reserved for people, not objects. So i don't really understand why Czechia's sounds so stange to you in this context.
Would you say "Hungarian worst train" or "Hungary's worst train"?
@@Simon-Andersen hmm, I would go with "Hungarian worst train" or "the worst train in Hungary".
Sure, I am not native English speaker and I do mistakes all the time. But "Czechia's" seems really wrong to me :)
Czechia has really low wages compared to germany and austria. But the services are quite cheap. People want higher wages, but they dont realise how much would all the services cost if everyone should have wages like in austria. I have traveled in austria from Spital an der Drau to Bad Gastein, just 25 minutes and I remember the ticket was also around 10 euros.
Why didn't you take the 1st class? Also, why didn't you drink beer on tap on a train in CZECHIA?. And shame about the loco. It's not like Škoda are new to locomotive and train business, so they should have done better.
yea they are not new but, lot of knowhow jumped after revolution to other manufacturers such as SIemens for better pay..
I try to travel in the least busy carriages to avoid disturbing others when making these videos, and on this train, it seems like second class often has a lot of empty space, but first class is quite popular! As for the beer, I’m not sure-probably just wasn’t in the mood since I’ve had plenty on CD before. :P
Hi pls can’t u ride the New x2000 pls I wouæd like it
I've tried twice and both time i didn't have luck! - Its on the agenda
Příště to zkus česky
Tjekkisk IC4 godt at vi ikke er de eneste 😅
I have this in Train Simulator but never could figure out how to make it work, now I can just blame it all on bad design and not my lack of an owners manual!
Hahha, for sure, you just got to drive one of the bad ones :P
links don't come through neither full nor broken so if you want something to feed to google and then to translator, google for:
- "hlavní jízdní páka" návod
- "Návod k obsluze třísystémové elektrické lokomotivy ŠKODA 109E ČD 380"
The literal operation manual for 109E is returned for the second term, the first term yields a shorter manual for refurbished classes 163/363 which should be based on the same principles.
Sorry but what is the problem with the Skoda 109E? You just posted a trip without any technical issues about this loco! Dislike
@@iuliandragomir1 Clearly explained within the first 30 seconds of the video this is a mix of a trip and backstory. Didn't watch from 8:55, where the problems, delays issues and future about these trains was explained including multiple sources. Disliked for posting nonsense
@@Simon-Andersen OK! So I am the fool! Please come with technical problems or rename your clip!
@@iuliandragomir1 Yes you are. Please point me to where the title, the intro or in the rest of the video I claim there will be a technical explanation of the failures. I use the word trouble.
The first part of the title is a open question and opinion. The second part is explained in the most detail around 8:55 which clearly shows proof that these trains weren't properly designed and took years to fix, evident by their multiple year delay intro service, lack of safety approvals, combined with reliability issues that has only improved in recent years.
You don't have to like the video, that's fine. But it was you who set the expectation that there was gonna be details of the technical issues, not me, the title or the video.
You could just have commented, I'd like to see a more detailed explanation of the technical part of the issues, that would have been valuable feedback and you wouldn't have had to post nonsense 😃
@@Simon-Andersen You mentioned a big failure. What is the failure? Where is the Fiasco? without real technical issues I can't belive You! Sorry!
@@iuliandragomir1 You don't have to believe that these trains are a failure. But that's your opinion, not a fault with the video. - Which you could just have said initially.
I've shown plenty of evidence that these trains can be considered both a failure and fiasco. Their late delivery, reliability issues and lack of approvals and certification. Meets the dictionary definition of both words which do not require there to be technical issues with them. - Heck it could be management only and still be considered both. Only you set an arbitrary requirement for technical issues after I called out your bullshit.
Your comments amounts to nothing but YOU having different expectations from what's actually stated by the title, intro and rest of the video. Which no matter how you try to deflect and move the goal post is still not my fault or something I need to change about the video.
The 109s are now as reliable as all the other locomotives, and the train drivers are praising their power (7.2MW), which is even higher than that of the Vectrons or Taurus models (6.4MW) (and it's noticeable).
Shame it took so long for them to have their issues fixed to operate reliably enough that ČD had to seek other locomotives. Potentially, ČD could have had a lot more of these.
The are thrash and thats final.😂
Its about the Traction not about the *MW Taurus and Vectron are simple better faster and More Good Designed. The Queen is still the German 101 with 7,7 MW.❤😂🎉 7,3
@@AliasTaurusVectron1212Liam Actually they are not. Stop spamming stupid sentences.
@@altavelmcnamaraThey are Still thrash They are going to be retired after just 15 years so they Arent of good.😂
The information is quite misleading and biased. The locomotive was particularly unlucky to be born at the crossroads of changes in European rail transport.
The changes were related to safety standards. The design and equipment of the locomotive had to be changed in order to be able to sell it to the customer and operate it.
This caused some of the delivery delays. Another reason was the reluctance of neighboring states to let it onto their railway network. While permission to operate in Poland, Slovakia, Hungary did not take long. Austria and Germany rejected the locomotive. Austria eventually relented, but DB continued to refuse to allow the locomotive onto its rail network.
The reasons were not so much technical as political. Germany was upset that Czech Railways chose a domestic locomotive manufacturer and not their manufacturer - Siemens. In the end, however, the locomotive was allowed to run on their tracks, and after some time, a private German carrier ordered entire trains with the same type of locomotive.
And when it comes to operational unreliability, České dráhy themselves are to blame. Due to poor maintenance, the locomotive suffered from frequent breakdowns. Which is nothing unusual for only twenty pieces of a brand new type. And ETCS? The locomotive has already counted on this safety device and there is a place for the installation in the engine room. Unfortunately, ETCS kits for use in older locomotives are considerably overpriced, and modifications to 20 locomotives would simply not be worthwhile for Czech Railways.
This comment is quite hypocritical and biased, filled with numerous unsourced claims and speculations.
Let me adress:
"The changes were related to safety standards. The design and equipment of the locomotive had to be changed in order to be able to sell it to the customer and operate it. This caused some of the delivery delays."
- Is a fair and valid comment, although there is not much public information on the specifics. Overall, it was probably only a small part of the much larger issues.
"While permission to operate in Poland, Slovakia, Hungary did not take long. Austria and Germany rejected the locomotive. Austria eventually relented, but DB continued to refuse to allow the locomotive onto its rail network.
The reasons were not so much technical as political. Germany was upset that Czech Railways chose a domestic locomotive manufacturer and not their manufacturer - Siemens. In the end, however, the locomotive was allowed to run on their tracks, and after some time, a private German carrier ordered entire trains with the same type of locomotive."
- All you are saying is pure speculation. The claim that Germany acted this way simply because it was a foreign locomotive is not supported by any sources, statements, or evidence from Škoda, ČD, or the Czech or German authorities. Germany is known for having strict and sometimes lengthy approval processes for new trains, and the 380 is no exception. Just consider the new Talgo trains for DB or the CAF trains for Schönbuchbahn, both of which are currently facing similar challenges.
Every single Vectron in ČD's passenger fleet has gone through a tender process that was open to all interested parties. There was no direct selection of the Vectron for political reasons, and claiming otherwise is misleading and biased.
The only 109Es delivered to Germany were for DB Regio (the state operator), and they faced similar approval and reliability issues as the 380 in the Czech Republic. Furthermore, their retirement has already been announced, as they no longer meet the requirements for the next operating tender, which specifies that trains must be built from 2020 onwards. The 109Es are from 2019. It's hard not to draw the conclusion that the operator and traffic buyer, is unhappy with the preformance of these trains even today.
"And when it comes to operational unreliability, České dráhy themselves are to blame. Due to poor maintenance, the locomotive suffered from frequent breakdowns. Which is nothing unusual for only twenty pieces of a brand new type. And ETCS? The locomotive has already counted on this safety device and there is a place for the installation in the engine room. Unfortunately, ETCS kits for use in older locomotives are considerably overpriced, and modifications to 20 locomotives would simply not be worthwhile for Czech Railways."
Again, this is not corroborated by any public sources. There is ample evidence, as shown in videos with cited articles and press releases from the time, that ČD was unhappy with the reliability of these locomotives straight out of the factory and for multiple years afterward, before stabilizing somewhat in recent years. A few teething problems in the first few years and minor delays in delivery are normal and not particularly noteworthy. However, experiencing nearly 8-10 years of substatial issues after the originally promised delivery date, combined with the fact that the sister locomotive for DB faced similar problems, and both the operator and traffic buyer has expressed dissatisfaction, paints a clear picture that this is not just a "ČD maintenance team issue". Additionally, ZSSK only ever ordered two units, and 381 002 has reportedly not been seen in working order for months, further supporting this narrative.
Quite a few drivers and Czech railway enthusiasts claim that Škoda left some internal space for ETCS signaling equipment. Unfortunately, it appears that this space is insufficient, making the installation of ETCS even more costly. I cannot verify this claim, but it’s not something neither ČD or Škoda can necessarily be blamed for.
A series of 20 locomotives is not insignificant, and considering the average train typically has a lifespan of 30+ years, the inability to find use for them outside of ETCS lines- or to justify the expense of fitting ETCS to them -clearly indicates that ČD's own evaluation of these locomotives is not particularly favorable. Even after becoming more reliable, they are still far from being considered a success.
Your comment contains numerous unsubstantial claims not backed by public evidence and demonstrates a clear bias toward Škoda, shifting blame away from them at every possible opportunity. Wild claims, such as a secret German political train approval agenda or ČD's inability to maintain these train, are unsubstantiated and show clear bias.
@@Simon-Andersen The claims can be substantiated, but I cannot publish internal company communications. However, with a little effort, some fragments can be found publicly. For example, the detention of one locomotive as if in a pawn in Austria. In a hall where rival company had access.
Obstruction of the German railway network operator DB-Netz. In May 2015, the German Federal Railway Authority (EBA) also approved the 380 series for operation in Germany. However, DB Netz refuses unrestricted use due to alleged problems with vibrations caused by the bogie when driving on bridges. That is why EC trains from Prague to Dresden continue to be run by older multi-system Škoda series 371/372 locomotives. And this was at a time when a competition was taking place for the operation of trains on the said route.
The search could be continued, but it is obviously pointless. What is strange is that in the discussion, the assessment of those who directly drove the locomotive does not sound bad.
@josef that is Completly. Bullshit.😂😠
These locomotives are proof the Skoda Transportation company is just empty shell.
Their (B)EMU and trams are okay, but they never made another locomotive after this one.
@@firstlast1932 Just ask in Prague how they like their Škoda 14T trams.
@@erikziak1249 Other than the weird door layout?
@ Noise, vibrations, ride comfort, damage to the infrastructure.
@@erikziak1249 Some of those issues were caused by DPP and the state of our infrastructure rather than the manufacturer.