My father flew the F-4 from 1975-77. They did in fact call it "The Pig". After his time in the F-5 and F-104, the F-4 was as you say, lethargic. At this point in the F-4's release time line, few have used the phrase "Excess Thrust" when referring to the F-4. Being familiar with the J79 coming from the F-104, my father said of the F-4's acceleration, "The faster you go the better it gets". Turbojets LIKE air so one needs speed to create speed. This is why getting slow in the turbojet is never a good idea. The turbojet is faster than the turbofan from 400-800kts. Excellent video Command T. If you want some good reading at FL390 and M0.85, SCREAM OF EAGLES is the very best book on how to fly and fight in the F-4. This book is the GOLD Standard. It tells us about the creation of TOP GUN and specifically, fighting the MIGs 17/21 and 19. The RULE: Enter the fight at no less than 550 kts. When speed bleeds to 350 kts, extend 2-3 miles, rebuild your energy, and pitch back into the fight with no less than 550 kts. And, fly "The Egg", Boom n Zoom tactics using pure vertical. SCREAM OF EAGLE FOR THE WIN. Thanks for the video. Very much looking forward to Phantom content from a pilot's perspective. Cheers.
I've noticed the F-14 and F-4 Jester both have a funny bug on some runways where they start freaking out when you're taking off. So I'll kick off down the runway, not even using afterburner or anything, and he'll be freaking out in the back telling me the CO's going to bust our asses for it. I think Heatblur's said they are looking into it, and it doesn't seem to be every runway.
G940 owner and I agree I have no idea how you could fly the F-4E without FFB. I do hope more FFB sticks start to show up sometime here like back in the day because it's the absolute best way to enjoy these older birds.
@Chris_TFB Make sure you install the community FW update Fix that helps a bunch with a lot of the issues of the POTS on the stick. Also, if the peddles seem to jitter a ton and aren't accurate, it's an easy fix. Just open it up and use something to solidify the connector for the wire to the pot in the center. If it's loose, it jitters like mad, but I used some Electrical Tape and now it's perfect.
That was a wonderful airshow you put on. If I hadn't already bought this module, I probably would after watching your lovely flying. Can't wait until my number comes up on the FFB waiting list! I agree that it really makes you work if you want a 'smooth' landing.
Regarding the out spin aileron flattening the spin, maybe it could be a code issue. I remember in LOMAC recovering from upright spin could be achieved with slamming the inboard engine only in afterburner, while in inverted spin you would have to put outboard engine at full thrust to recover. Hilarious.
I've been waiting for this single video as this was the deciding factor on if I decided to build this stick or not. I'm beyond ecstatic to finally see it being tested with FFB and I know my answer has been made!
The B727 needed just a bit of added thrusted in the round out for a smooth landing. Using that technique in the F4 helps. Same kind of thrust angle and the gear so far back.
You can make jester not eject be going into the jester wheel -> Crew contract -> ejection -> both. I think this makes it so that jester can't eject by himself
Hi, Well my main question is what you use to extend the stick to the correct height, and how you attach it to the floor? It looks like something home built? I want to put together something super sturdy but not spend a bunch of $$$ on it. I just got the Moza AB9 base with a warthog stick
I found the F-4 easy to fly, especially between 350-600kts. I think FBW F-16 and F-18 flyers are use to pulling hard on the stick and getting things to happen. She geta floatly up high, but loves going low and fast. I spend hours on the Aerobatics servers trying to simulate Thunderbird 5's routine from the early 1970s.
I was curious how this one would feel with the force feedback. I'm sure I'll be jealous as usual. It's been a bit of a bummer with my new computer, since I guess my new rig has the perfect combination of things to make it crash constantly on multi-threading. I think I've found the perfect combination of settings to use with the old single-thread .exe but it's definitely putting a damper on the new computer joy. Glad to see there's another person like me who wasn't really a huge F-4 fan (I thought it was cool as a kid, but that was most planes) and got it almost more to support Heatblur's efforts than it was to fly the thing. That said, I've definitely enjoyed the challenge of the F-4 now. The landings have been a beast for me too. I've found myself really missing having the flight path indicator that I've become so used to, since I feel like I'm pretty much riding a stall the entire way down. I've managed to smash the gear on a handful of Phantoms now.
Ha, yeah it’s a handful on landing and I agree that it feels like being on the verge of a stall the entire way down 😅 Hope you get the multithreding version going soon 🙂
@@CommandT You and me both. I'm still getting solid frames and everything now with the single thread, and even flying the F-4, with all of that complex programming going on in the background, I'm still around 100 FPS, so I won't look a gift horse too far in the mouth and just be happy it's stable at all. I set myself up a little mission flying around Iran in the F-4, so that's been a fun little challenge.
Sure, I’ll try and make a community post at some point maybe with my settings. Otherwise I’d have attached a screenshot here but RUclips doesn’t allow that when replying to comments annoyingly.
Great video, as always. Can confirm the way they did things without FFB is totally whack, and I can't even bring myself to fly the module anymore because of it😥 Gave me an excuse to put my name down for a VPForce Rhino, though! I'd have gone with FFBeast, but my current setup has everything mounted to a chair I can wheel in and out, and the Rhino base should work with that nicely.
@@CommandT Thanks, it is not an easy job to fine tune the stick, but once it is right it is a game changer. I try to do it for the F4 but it is felling kind of wonky.
I am on the way to build my FFBeast. I'll receive the frames in a couple of days. It's your F18 stick connect to the FFBeast controller board or by the Trust master board? Thanks for your videos!
If you end up documenting that process anywhere, I'd definitely be curious to see how it goes. I would love to get into the FFB world, but damn if it's not expensive!
That’s great you’re getting it! What do you mean by “board”? I just plugged and screwed on my TM F-18 grip like I would onto an actual TN Warthog base.
@@aaronwhite1786yes it is expensive, I am going for a DIY on the FFBeast proget. You will find all the documentations you need. But even making by yourself it will be not so much cheaper. The asking price for a ready Made one it’s honest
Well you can finesse a CF-18, but you do risk walking over the trailing link gear with any lateral movement in real life and breaking the gear and aircraft. It’s just not worth the risk to finesse it. Fantastic video on the Heatblur Phantom and the force feedback stick.
Canadians lost a bunch of F-18s on landing as a result of actively trying to make firm landings with crosswinds. So eventually decided that smooth touchdowns work and don’t have in issue with weight on wheel switches. At least that’s what I picked up from one of the ex Canadian F-18 pilots in an interview with Steve Davies.
@@CommandT Yeah. There is also a middle ground between a carrier landing and a fully greased landing (which is what I'd guess could cause those issues). I've heard a fair amount of Hornet pilots say they often added a little power before touch down to take most of the oomph out. ruclips.net/video/-0jMK4oVcMo/видео.htmlsi=gKwl1lfFXLP6cXpU Here's an interesting video of Swiss Hornets landing
I think I set some gentle curves even though with force feedback you may want to avoid having any curves since the stick’s neutral position changes a lot.
"AOA, what a stupid instrument. If you don't know what your angle of attack is, you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager. Of course, for sim flyers, we don't get the feedback you get IRL.
Great video. Would love to have force feedback. Can’t afford it right now. You are doing your approach and landing completely wrong. I’d happily help you with that.
They used to disable ROLL augmentation because it made it twitchy in situations where precision was needed, not because of some adverse yaw stuff you said.
God I hate those uninformed fake comments from armchair pilots. Seriously, stop spreading uninformed disinformation. The adverse yaw "stuff" you're talking about ironically is OFFICIAL documentation and even in the OFFICIAL training videos BY McDonnel Douglas (maker of the plane in case you didn't even know that much). So if you're not even sure what you're talking about please at least have the decency to state "I believe" or "I guess" in your post to indicate that. Sorry to be extremely blunt here but having a cool helmet avatar doesn't make you any smarter - only look weird. Here's the explanation from the OFFICIAL training video: "With the three axis controller, some pilots turn off the roll channel during maneuvering to eliminate unwanted roll damper inputs. At high angles of attack adverse yaw can be introduced by the roll aug. It senses roll and commands aileron spoiler, which causes adverse yaw." Source: ruclips.net/video/EXsTlmokAlQ/видео.htmlfeature=shared&t=474 So maybe you will now understand the "adverse yaw stuff" due to roll aug a little better, if it's explained to you by the aircraft manufacturer. I really hope, with your cooperation, we can eliminate this nonsense attitude in the community. People commenting, without any credible source, saying the most ridiculous things with a straight face as if it were facts.
Thank you so much for your all vidéos which explains #Ffbeast . I receive mine in october 2024. I’m on waiting list since january 2024 😢 Bye bye . Aplushhss /Laurent 🇫🇷
Jester knows how to make his pilot comfortable : convertible Phantom for the win. Thank you for this flight masterclass !
Ha, yep. Thanks! 🙏
My father flew the F-4 from 1975-77. They did in fact call it "The Pig". After his time in the F-5 and F-104, the F-4 was as you say, lethargic. At this point in the F-4's release time line, few have used the phrase "Excess Thrust" when referring to the F-4. Being familiar with the J79 coming from the F-104, my father said of the F-4's acceleration, "The faster you go the better it gets". Turbojets LIKE air so one needs speed to create speed. This is why getting slow in the turbojet is never a good idea. The turbojet is faster than the turbofan from 400-800kts. Excellent video Command T. If you want some good reading at FL390 and M0.85, SCREAM OF EAGLES is the very best book on how to fly and fight in the F-4. This book is the GOLD Standard. It tells us about the creation of TOP GUN and specifically, fighting the MIGs 17/21 and 19. The RULE: Enter the fight at no less than 550 kts. When speed bleeds to 350 kts, extend 2-3 miles, rebuild your energy, and pitch back into the fight with no less than 550 kts. And, fly "The Egg", Boom n Zoom tactics using pure vertical. SCREAM OF EAGLE FOR THE WIN. Thanks for the video. Very much looking forward to Phantom content from a pilot's perspective. Cheers.
Thanks for the kind words and for recommending the book! I shall save the name! Thanks for that 🙂 And interesting re-speeds and tactics!
14:40 When Jester ejected screaming at top of his lungs and your like OMG Jester what the hell?!!
I've noticed the F-14 and F-4 Jester both have a funny bug on some runways where they start freaking out when you're taking off. So I'll kick off down the runway, not even using afterburner or anything, and he'll be freaking out in the back telling me the CO's going to bust our asses for it. I think Heatblur's said they are looking into it, and it doesn't seem to be every runway.
Ha! Haven’t seen that yet
G940 owner and I agree I have no idea how you could fly the F-4E without FFB. I do hope more FFB sticks start to show up sometime here like back in the day because it's the absolute best way to enjoy these older birds.
Yep!
@Chris_TFB Make sure you install the community FW update Fix that helps a bunch with a lot of the issues of the POTS on the stick. Also, if the peddles seem to jitter a ton and aren't accurate, it's an easy fix. Just open it up and use something to solidify the connector for the wire to the pot in the center. If it's loose, it jitters like mad, but I used some Electrical Tape and now it's perfect.
That was a wonderful airshow you put on. If I hadn't already bought this module, I probably would after watching your lovely flying. Can't wait until my number comes up on the FFB waiting list! I agree that it really makes you work if you want a 'smooth' landing.
Ah thanks! That’s very kind! 😃
Regarding the out spin aileron flattening the spin, maybe it could be a code issue. I remember in LOMAC recovering from upright spin could be achieved with slamming the inboard engine only in afterburner, while in inverted spin you would have to put outboard engine at full thrust to recover. Hilarious.
Yeah I’m wondering the same myself. It does seem strange
Just watching your stick movements, it's something I simply can't do with a spring loaded stick. Looks so natural
Yeah it’s definitely much easier to “feel” the plane and make appropriate adjustments!
The tiny smile face in the back gets me everytime
Good work! I'm glad at least one developer is including Force Feedback 👍
Thanks!
I've been waiting for this single video as this was the deciding factor on if I decided to build this stick or not. I'm beyond ecstatic to finally see it being tested with FFB and I know my answer has been made!
Oh nice! 😃
The B727 needed just a bit of added thrusted in the round out for a smooth landing. Using that technique in the F4 helps. Same kind of thrust angle and the gear so far back.
Thanks thanks thanks for this video!!! ❤❤❤ great review!
Thanks!
Now I'm convinced that I will buy the DIY package for the FFBeast 😂
Nice!! 👌
I did it. Super easy build, and fun. Well worth it once you use it for the first time. Feels incredible.
@@fudruckers3916 Oh that's good to hear!
You can make jester not eject be going into the jester wheel -> Crew contract -> ejection -> both. I think this makes it so that jester can't eject by himself
You’re going to love the Cold War scene with force feedback man! Would love to see you try the mig 21
I’m not crazy about the MiG-21s flight model so I don’t fly it 😕
@@CommandT would to love to hear why, similar to how you broke down the su-30 flight model!
Hi,
Well my main question is what you use to extend the stick to the correct height, and how you attach it to the floor? It looks like something home built? I want to put together something super sturdy but not spend a bunch of $$$ on it.
I just got the Moza AB9 base with a warthog stick
I use a 5cm, the real aircraft is longer.
I just built a wooden frame and bolted it to the frame.
I found the F-4 easy to fly, especially between 350-600kts. I think FBW F-16 and F-18 flyers are use to pulling hard on the stick and getting things to happen.
She geta floatly up high, but loves going low and fast. I spend hours on the Aerobatics servers trying to simulate Thunderbird 5's routine from the early 1970s.
Nice! The F-4 is actually super easy and pleasant in close formation. But in general, still a pig 😅
I was curious how this one would feel with the force feedback. I'm sure I'll be jealous as usual.
It's been a bit of a bummer with my new computer, since I guess my new rig has the perfect combination of things to make it crash constantly on multi-threading. I think I've found the perfect combination of settings to use with the old single-thread .exe but it's definitely putting a damper on the new computer joy.
Glad to see there's another person like me who wasn't really a huge F-4 fan (I thought it was cool as a kid, but that was most planes) and got it almost more to support Heatblur's efforts than it was to fly the thing. That said, I've definitely enjoyed the challenge of the F-4 now.
The landings have been a beast for me too. I've found myself really missing having the flight path indicator that I've become so used to, since I feel like I'm pretty much riding a stall the entire way down. I've managed to smash the gear on a handful of Phantoms now.
Ha, yeah it’s a handful on landing and I agree that it feels like being on the verge of a stall the entire way down 😅 Hope you get the multithreding version going soon 🙂
@@CommandT You and me both. I'm still getting solid frames and everything now with the single thread, and even flying the F-4, with all of that complex programming going on in the background, I'm still around 100 FPS, so I won't look a gift horse too far in the mouth and just be happy it's stable at all.
I set myself up a little mission flying around Iran in the F-4, so that's been a fun little challenge.
hi great video, what vr headset do you use please.
None.
"Eject! Eject!"
"Goddamn it, Jester!"
:D :D :D
Hear you on the landings, very uncivilised chsracteristics! Can you share your FfBeast profile for the F-4?
Sure, I’ll try and make a community post at some point maybe with my settings. Otherwise I’d have attached a screenshot here but RUclips doesn’t allow that when replying to comments annoyingly.
My FFB fanaticism is over 9000. IIRC there is an option to disable jester premature ejection in the special options available from the main menu ... ?
Oh thanks, I shall have a look.
Great video, as always. Can confirm the way they did things without FFB is totally whack, and I can't even bring myself to fly the module anymore because of it😥
Gave me an excuse to put my name down for a VPForce Rhino, though! I'd have gone with FFBeast, but my current setup has everything mounted to a chair I can wheel in and out, and the Rhino base should work with that nicely.
That’s fair enough! Yeah shame about the non-FFB Phantom controls 😬
Could o share the profile effects for F4? I also got the FFBeast and I have been trying to set the profile, but all help is welcome.
I’m still to fine-tune it a bit more but I will post the settings a little later once I have it set up 👍
@@CommandT Thanks, it is not an easy job to fine tune the stick, but once it is right it is a game changer. I try to do it for the F4 but it is felling kind of wonky.
I got my ffbeast and to be honest I am still struggling with all the settings, will you do a tutorial at some point? Thank you
I might do, or might just upload all my FFB profiles for ffbeast on google drive and share it with everyone 🙂
love the f-4 nice video, you really should check it out more C:
I am on the way to build my FFBeast. I'll receive the frames in a couple of days. It's your F18 stick connect to the FFBeast controller board or by the Trust master board? Thanks for your videos!
If you end up documenting that process anywhere, I'd definitely be curious to see how it goes. I would love to get into the FFB world, but damn if it's not expensive!
That’s great you’re getting it! What do you mean by “board”? I just plugged and screwed on my TM F-18 grip like I would onto an actual TN Warthog base.
@@aaronwhite1786yes it is expensive, I am going for a DIY on the FFBeast proget. You will find all the documentations you need. But even making by yourself it will be not so much cheaper. The asking price for a ready Made one it’s honest
@@CommandTi mean if it is a Path through connection. Do you have just one link to you pc or two?
Well you can finesse a CF-18, but you do risk walking over the trailing link gear with any lateral movement in real life and breaking the gear and aircraft. It’s just not worth the risk to finesse it.
Fantastic video on the Heatblur Phantom and the force feedback stick.
Canadians lost a bunch of F-18s on landing as a result of actively trying to make firm landings with crosswinds. So eventually decided that smooth touchdowns work and don’t have in issue with weight on wheel switches. At least that’s what I picked up from one of the ex Canadian F-18 pilots in an interview with Steve Davies.
@@CommandT Yeah. There is also a middle ground between a carrier landing and a fully greased landing (which is what I'd guess could cause those issues). I've heard a fair amount of Hornet pilots say they often added a little power before touch down to take most of the oomph out.
ruclips.net/video/-0jMK4oVcMo/видео.htmlsi=gKwl1lfFXLP6cXpU Here's an interesting video of Swiss Hornets landing
So funny he ejected after you saved the stall hahaha
Yeah that was stupid 😅😅😅
You have to tell Jester to think about baseball! Otherwise invest in some numbing cream or something.
Ha!
What curves did you set for F-4?
I think I set some gentle curves even though with force feedback you may want to avoid having any curves since the stick’s neutral position changes a lot.
How is the f15 with ffb stick?
Haven’t tried it but every single plane is amazing with FFB! F-15 won’t be any different I’m sure
Jester is hilarious
Just wish he wouldn’t eject 😬😬
Do you still fly in VR from time to time?
Not atm. I sold my headset a while back. At some point I’ll get back into it
"AOA, what a stupid instrument. If you don't know what your angle of attack is, you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager.
Of course, for sim flyers, we don't get the feedback you get IRL.
I think Jester might be hardcoded out of control spin = 10 000ft AGL Punch out
Yeah can’t find any option to disable this.
Great video. Would love to have force feedback. Can’t afford it right now. You are doing your approach and landing completely wrong. I’d happily help you with that.
They used to disable ROLL augmentation because it made it twitchy in situations where precision was needed, not because of some adverse yaw stuff you said.
God I hate those uninformed fake comments from armchair pilots. Seriously, stop spreading uninformed disinformation.
The adverse yaw "stuff" you're talking about ironically is OFFICIAL documentation and even in the OFFICIAL training videos BY McDonnel Douglas (maker of the plane in case you didn't even know that much).
So if you're not even sure what you're talking about please at least have the decency to state "I believe" or "I guess" in your post to indicate that.
Sorry to be extremely blunt here but having a cool helmet avatar doesn't make you any smarter - only look weird.
Here's the explanation from the OFFICIAL training video:
"With the three axis controller, some pilots turn off the roll channel during maneuvering to eliminate unwanted roll damper inputs. At high angles of attack adverse yaw can be introduced by the roll aug. It senses roll and commands aileron spoiler, which causes adverse yaw."
Source: ruclips.net/video/EXsTlmokAlQ/видео.htmlfeature=shared&t=474
So maybe you will now understand the "adverse yaw stuff" due to roll aug a little better, if it's explained to you by the aircraft manufacturer.
I really hope, with your cooperation, we can eliminate this nonsense attitude in the community. People commenting, without any credible source, saying the most ridiculous things with a straight face as if it were facts.
Thank you so much for your all vidéos which explains #Ffbeast .
I receive mine in october 2024.
I’m on waiting list since january 2024 😢
Bye bye .
Aplushhss /Laurent 🇫🇷
You’re half way there 💪
Yes ,it’s long 🥴