I wish they had just made an all female heist film - not trying to be anything it's not, not jumping on a bandwagon or inserting itself into an established film series. They're pretending to be feminists but really they dont think a standalone would make any money and that repeats the cycle that women need men to get them anywhere? Does this make sense!??!
totally! they make remakes and sequels etc because they don't believe women can make a good standalone! I've been trying to figure out what urks me about these remakes and you've hit the nail on the head! Thank you!
@@tryingtobeeloquent Like Jack mentioned. Widows, predominantly (not all) female heist film. It's darker and has more grit than the oceans franchise. It's not tied into any franchise and it was an amazing watch. I'm not sure how it did with critics but it was a great film where women were playing roles in a heist film that men wouldn't have fit in. More like that please.
Yes! That's why I hate all these 'reboot but FEmaLE' movies. They're using the fact that it features women as a gimmick to get some buzz around the movie - either people hating that fact or defending it - while admitting they still think female led movies are too much of a risk to stand on there own without the support of name recognition that comes with these franchises.
I feel like the problem with the all-female remakes is that it would have so much more impact to create a new franchise or just stand-alone film with an all-female cast. It means that all the all-female cast movies don't do as well because they're never going to be loved more than the original, and it ends up being considered a symptom of all-female casting. I know this wasn't the point of the video, but I finally clocked what didn't sit right with me about the all-female remakes: more feminist film-making isn't just replacing the men with women, it's creating something for women in the first place.
Yep. There’s something gross about them doing Ocean’s Eleven but instead of robbing a casino the girls get to steal a pretty necklace from a fashion show.
I do agree with you Kate but think this is true of films in general at the moment. There are so many remakes and sequels and reboots around, not just for female-fronted casts. It seems to me this is just about what is profitable or at least a safer bet commercially. I agree that the chance to create something fresh and new with the same resources and the same reach would be incredible but a) are we there yet and b) if we are, does it have to be one or the other? This film wasn't trying to be the pinnacle of feminist film making and it isn't.
@@JackHoward Reminds me of how in Catwman the Big Bad was women's beauty cream. Just because they are female doesn't mean everything should revolve around cosmetics and glitzy jewelry...
I agree with that, because it makes it feel like the women are always the second best on great movie franchises. Women have to be represented as the face of beloved franchises without being in the shadow of a male character
The best part of this movie are Cate Blanchett's outfits. And normally I'm not super into fashion. But yeah, her costume changes are the most exciting thing xD
I watched this film on a plane when I had nothing else better to do and I can say that the film was funny and entertaining, there were a lot of plot holes, but it was a really fun watch.
Hell, I watched this at home bcuz there was nothing else. I quite liked it, fun and light. Just wish there was a smaller cast. That was my problem with all the other films.
Honestly, I’m just sick of this ‘remake’ crap. It doesn’t work, and it does a disservice to what entertainment with a leading female cast is actually capable of. You wouldn’t take a successful franchise like say, Killing Eve, and remake it with a leading male cast because it WOULDN’T WORK. AT ALL. Aim for new exciting three dimensional roles for women instead of giving them the male scraps bloody hell.
Was having a low day and decided to watch it in theatres and I personally had a blast. I wasn't expecting high brow entertainment, I was expecting a great time, and I got it.
I personally enjoyed this film having not watched any of the previous Ocean’s but now I really want to watch them. Hearing you pick apart the film making is cool because you can really tell it’s something you’re passionate about. More of this plz
I liked Oceans 8. It's fun, light, and I think it hit the beats a heist movie should. They used the franchise name to get people to watch a movie with a full female cast, then just made a heist film. I don't think there't necessarily anything wrong with that.
There's everything wrong with that. As a filmmaker, you shouldn't count on a brand or franchise name in order to ensure your film is a success. It should be a good enough film on its own to have people go and watch it otherwise you're undercutting and undermining the progression you're trying to instill with certain choices, in this case, an all female cast.
Yes please talk about Ocean 11. Or the entire series while you're at it. The differences you pointed out on the first few frames of both films are interesting.
I guess that's my thing, I don't remember 11 super well and I am just so happy to see women on screen so I wasn't comparing it to 11. I just thought it was a fun heist film with ladies, not deep but a pretty popcorn movie that did want that Oceans connection real bad
I really want an in depth video on the differences between the two movies and WHY the originals are better, more substantial. The humour was just so effortless and the characters felt real. Rusty and Danny just exuded coolness and the mc's in 8 came off so tryhard to me. That movie's biggest selling point was an all female cast and that's never a good thing lol. I love the Oceans series and just wish they put more effort into it. Sigh.
I appreciate your thoughts and insight into this but eh... I liked it. I love a heist film: Oceans 11 has been my unapologetic feel-good film ever since I first saw it aged 12 over a decade ago. And, no, Oceans 8 didn't live up to it. But it still made me feel childlike and gleeful and energised. It felt like it had a similar campy spirit. Rightly or wrongly, I think I actually preferred it to Oceans 12 and although I don't want to overstate it and I do get why you've said what you have, I *would* have found it really cool to see a film like this when I was a 12 year old girl.
@@JackHoward That's fair. As much as I did enjoy Oceans 8, I did leave the cinema feeling like it could have been better. I really enjoyed your deconstruction of the first shots of Oceans 11 vs Oceans 8 by the way. Not knowing anything about films (beyond just knowing what I like and just trying to watch really widely and out of my comfort zone!) it's so interesting to see all these imperceptible decisions that influence why a film feels perfect (even in a campy, non-serious way) versus just okay.
I feel like I should have been it’s own heist film. It could have been so good with the cast it had but because they piggy backed off the oceans franchise it was just bound to be disappointing. A genuine shame.
This was great😊 I love hearing more of your thoughts about a specific movie instead of doing a list of a bunch of them (so while I don't dislike the list videos since they are good in a different way) I would prefer you make more videos like this one😊 idk just my two cents on the topic, can't wait for your next video no matter what it is😉
All we ask for is original stories made by women, with women in them, that aren't holding onto the coattails of men! ORIGINAL stuff can easily stand on its own, and be successful. I would highly highly recommend watching Leena Norm's video on Dirty Dancing, it's really insightful as to what makes a radical film with female protagonists that doesn't feel forced or preachy. She does point out that when Dirty Dancing was made in the 80s studios had far more control over their stories, and didn't have to bend to the will of a higher parent company (it meant that money wasn't the only aim). Women have universal, human, fun and intelligent stories to tell too.
Oceans 8 Should have opened on the Girls trying to Steal something from Bank's Casino at the end of Oceans 13 only for their plan to fall through because of Danny's heist in Oceans 13, the girls should have been caught trying to escape with their heist half done, some do prison time, some just narrowly escape, etc, setting them all up to have this big grudge against Danny for ruining their heist and the last x years of their lives in Prison/on the run etc. You could even retcon O13 to show Danny knowing about the other plan and moving up his schedule to beat them to the punch. This gives the girls the idea to get back at Danny in particular, to take from him what he took from them, and to "publicly" shame him in front of his crew/others in the thief underworld. It would also set up a potential back and forth between the two squads for potential sequals.
I really love the ocean's movies. when I watched 8, I had v low expectations so I was pleasantly surprised that it wasn't too bad. HOWEVER, it drives me crazy when they do all female remakes of something. I don't want a female remake, I want a unique new property with female leads. That way it won't be stifled by comparaisons and the movie isn't stuck spending half its time trying to pay homage to the original movie that it barely has time to establish itself. I know 8, isn't perfect but when I see movies like this I just think that if they didn't have to spend so much time trying to convince you that this is an "oceans movie" (mentioning Danny, opening the movie in the same way trying to imitate plot twists) it could have been decent, with that budget and that cast they could have made a great fun movie. Sorry long rant but basically I just wish Hollywood believed more in female led movies that weren't period dramas and that they didn't think the surest way female led movies could ever be successful is if it was based of a previously successful male led film
Oceans 8 was my first proper heist movie (embarrassing i know) and everything about the movie felt half-hearted and poorly scripted. But, hearing you talk about oceans 11 has completely convinced me not only to watch the film but also know that i’ll enjoy it. Seeing how passionate you are about film, would you ever do a movie podcast?
JackHoward 😅 unfortunately no. I loved ur videos with dean when i was younger and only recently rediscovered this channel. So i’ll assume that’s a yes for the podcast. I’ll check it out :)
This criticism is valid and you summarise its flaws perfectly. But I do think it’s important to point out that all-female remakes get a disproportionate amount of hatred, when other shitty remakes of beloved films are equally as bad. It’s a complicated problem that Hollywood producers seem to enjoy because it generates buzz with little amount of effort. The sequence goes: The all female remake is cheap and mediocre but probably somewhat silly/fun, lots of people criticise it for its genuine flaws while a loud group of men froth in disproportionate anger online, the Hollywood producers then rebuff any critique as simply misogyny. Ultimately the real losers are still women: we don’t get higher quality female films because genuine critique is dismissed, and we don’t get to enjoy the crappy but fun films the same way guys do because they’re so vehemently hated.
was gonna watch it for the women out of my league being clever and slick and badass but 3D print glasses are about the dullest tackiest thing I can imagine... a tragedy for the lesbians of today
the amount of videos i watch and podcasts i listen to where white boys tell me about films and tell me that the dark knight is incredible... and yet i keep watching them thank u jack i will continue to consume ur content
I had my doubts about this movie since I heard the line 'Women aren't noticed' referring to the reason for an all female team AT A GALA. Where the women are the ones who are the center of attention for their fashion and whatnot. If they really wanted a team that would not be noticed in that occasion it would've had to be all-male.
yeah i thought that was weird and was like maybe they'll show some evidence of what they mean during the movie? nothing dramatic, just some proof that all-female is necessary. it really wasn't except for the girl in the bathroom
I liked Ocean's 8 but I will agree that it was just... Fine. I don't have strong opinions on 11 like you do (it's a good movie, I personally didn't like how easily he got back with Julia Roberts at the end of it), but I gotta agree with a lot of the points you made about 8. I think a lot of the fun from that film (8) comes from the cast. I loved the dynamic of them a lot. Widows is an infinitely better movie. Everyone watch Widows. It's so fucking good.
The reason why those camera choices you called out at the beginning are so important is because it sets you up to disbelieve his words and look deeper into his actions. A great setup for a heist film
I watch movies and have no idea why I like them or don't and then you come and talk about cutting to different angles that don't revel anything about the character or how the problems are too easy to fix and I'm like "yep, that's the issue" yet I could never figure it out myself. That's why I love these videos of yours!
I love Oceans 8, from when it came out it was a movie that just made me smile. However, I hadn’t seen the other Oceans - and I’m easily pleased. However I agree with your analysis of the movie, it’s missing something. I watched Oceans 11 last night after your frequent recommendation and it really gave me that sense of anticipation - even though I knew they would pull it off, I was still surprised at how (like at the end when the tapes the manager is watching we’re pre-recorded). Big fan of the films now, looking forward to watching 12.
Look, the movie is...fine. Like, it’s not amazing, but it’s fun and kinda dumb. However, the movie exists only to show Cate Blanchett in a green velvet suit. That’s it. That’s the only reason.
Saw oceans 8 in cinema when it first came out having seen none of the other movies before. Yesterday i watched 11 and it blew my mind how much better it was. Still enjoyed 8, it just feels a lot more childish than 11? Not as slick and clever and intense, everything seemed to work out very easy for all of them.
I enjoyed oceans 8 for what it’s worth as I wasn’t watching it as a remake as I have to admit I haven’t watched both 11 or 12. I didn’t see it as a edge of the seat heist movie but more a simple heist/comedy that was an easy watch.
@@Adventurous-Emma He’s not a ‘remarkably’ good singer - he’s the most average singer who thinks he is better than he is because he was in a Tony winning west end play when he was younger
I've honestly never watched any of the Ocean's films, nor have I noticed any of Jack's other Ocean's videos, which I am now noticing. But this video has made me go to Netflix and stick on Ocean's Eleven. Congrats Jack, you lured me in.
That comparison of the opening scenes was spot-on. The shots were more meaningful and the lighting actually existed; Ocean's 8 looks like an independent film in comparison.
Unfortunately we're stuck with this model of 'let's just remake a popular thing but with women' till it fails badly enough that Hollywood will stop. Thanks for your thoughts though.
Go ahead. Talk about it. Im happy to hear. Also I enjoyed Oceans 8 but it took effort to not let myself think about the flaws until it was over so I could. Superficial and too easy were two of my big complaints as well along with the whole ex boyfriend revenge stuff just feeling forced and unneeded. If it was something like her hijacking something he was doing and getting him caught for what he planned all along, using it as a distraction for her own thing? Then I could see it justified. He would feel like an advisory. In what we actually got he just feels like a third wheel when all you needed was a bicycle.
Haywire just came on Amazon Prime - I really enjoyed that. Contagion is great (if you wanna watch that sort of thing right now lol). Sex, Lies and Videotape is his first film and it’s really brilliant and not fair that he made it aged 25. Side Effects it’s a very good genre bending thriller! Erin Brockovich obviously. Logan Lucky is Soderbergh doing another really fun heist movie. And Solaris - which I’m currently making a new video about. :)
I really loved Ocean’s 8 as a super fun heist film but I think tbh the biggest issue with it was the fact they tried to tie it to the other Oceans films - it’s a fun entertainment film, rather than a tense heist film like the other Oceans films. They would have done better if they’d just done it as a brand new fun heist film which happens to pay homage to the Ocean films, rather than needlessly tying it into the series and thus setting up expectations of a different style film.
The Kill Bill movies had a woman lead role and they were both awesome. It was a new franchise totally made with a female. However, taking a franchise that we all love such as ghostbusters or the Oceans trilogy and injecting a gender flip cast doesn’t work
Hi, I love all your videos. I’ve never seen any ‘ocean’s’ films, but I’ve wanted to watch ‘ocean’s 8’ for a while now. tbh, the main reason for that, is the cast. I love all the actresses featured in this film, and to me, it would seem like it would be an amazing film because of the cast alone.
The cast can’t save it I’m afraid. And some of them, who are usually great, really aren’t great in this. But it’s not their fault, they’ve got nothing to do.
It was just fine and that's it really. Like you said it was all too easy and the one thing that threw off the plan WAS THE PLAN! I was left wondering if that didn't happen and it all went smooth, then surely the situation leading to twist reveal woudn't have actually happened. The cast was really fun though.
Absolutely agree - and as I'm an actress no one can really tell me I'm hating on women in film! I really dislike this whole 'let's take a film full of blokes and make a meh remake but cast women in it!!! #feminism' trend that is happening right now (*cough* Ghostbusters *cough*'). How about we create an original series of films about women rather than ruin a beloved series with a bad script and an unnecessary spin-off and leave people to blame women for it? It just wasn't a good film, it was trying way too hard to be cool (and failing) and it made me super annoyed because I've been waiting for a good female heist film for ages. Watched 'Widows' too and there is truly no comparison.
I tried to watch this yesterday and could not finish it was terrible at the beginning of the film she states that she’s been planning the heist for seven years they then set about planning the heist never mind the fact that she couldn’t possibly know what was going to happen in seven years to be able to make these plans ridiculous turned it off
i watched oceans 8 without having seen the others but seeing that sandra bullock was in it (dont get mad) and i thought it was so fun!!! i thought u were being a little harsh but woW i forgot (suppress the memory) james corden was in it ,,,,,,,,,, what was that all about!? i really like heist films bc its crime without much gore and clearly i need to go and watch oceans,,,,11 was it?
I was THRILLED to see this video pop up this morning when I hopped onto RUclips. I totally get where you're coming from with the layout of 8, or I guess like immediate solution reveals throughout the movie. I haven't seen any previous Ocean's movie before, so I haven't really been exposed to, I guess, the great potential of a heist movie. This video let me know I would get a kick out them. If I really liked the potential "bottom of the pile" then I think I'd love the rest. Now you've got my mind spinning thinking about how the movie could have been different had Steven Soderbergh directed.
I think the simplest way of putting it is that he would’ve distributed the weight differently. Too much time spent on meaningless stuff instead of the more dramatic moments. Not enough focus on story. Soderbergh is also incredible at ensemble casts. In Ocean’s Eleven, you really feel the team and why everyone is important. In 8, you do not.
So, it's an okay film. My problem was that it really was not dynamic at all. No ups or downs in the story. I felt like I got into a car to take me from point A to point B and I went through one of those underground tunnels that gets you there fast and smooth. No traffic, no views, nothing interesting, just transport. But hey, at least you got there? Also, the ending made me sad. Like, in other heist movings or guy-getting-rich-movies it ends with them (men) living in “luxury”, like mansions, escorts, diamonds - all the cliché stuff. In Oceans 8 the women get rich and they use that money to do what? Basically pay their way through patriarchy, achieving their own dreams/goals (i.e. opening a bar, living freely on a motor cycle, becoming a movie director) without the patriarchy being an obstacle. I think that could have been such an incredibly social commentary of showing that ultimately this is what women wants - equality and freedom, but instead they just completely missed that whole dimension.
Ooohh so I watched oceans eight for the first time last year cause I love hbc so I knew I wanted to watch it and I really loved it. Then I’ve been recently been going through your recommendations and I ended up watching the other three oceans films and they were really good I loved the first one like wow!! Fantastic!! I’m going to see if I can find widows to watch tomorrow!!!!!! Cheers dude!!
this makes a lot of sense. i loved the idea of the film and it was a really fun time, but i just wish it had been made differently (better). same cast, same general concept, but with different direction, different writing and it could have been great. the disappointment oceans 8 turned out to be has fuelled me to write something better though which can only be a good thing?
Ahaha, I sort of see how it is bad storytelling but I get a specific satisfaction from just watching talented women achieve a thing with ease, whilst wearing really nice clothes. A different joy to Oceans 11, sure, but a legitimate pleasure...
this is a really random and somewhat unrelated point to make, but if you ever feel like reading some great heist-y books, Six of Crows and Crooked Kingdom are brilliant. they're set in a preexisting YA fantasy universe but can definitely be read as a standalone pair, and i cannot recommend them enough!!!!!!
I 100% agree with the fact that the movie is too easy. I HATED IT I felt like watching the totally spies! I just don't get the remake thing I think. Let's invest money and amazing casts like the Ocean's 8 one (I mean this bunch of actresses is priceless, and Elizabeth banks is a very very talented and modern director who is definitely able to pull out novelty and entertainment in form movies) and create something NEW
I really really wish, that filmmakers made movies with women as main roles without just making sequels or remakes. I mean, I enjoyed Ghostbusters, it was stupid fun. But I still wish that there were movies with women in it and it's not just a "SEE? WOMEN! We're progressive!" I watched Lady Bird a few weeks back and loooved it, I hate that I took forever to see it, but I really saw myself in Lady Bird and that is so important with films, to be able to see yourself in the main character(s).
I agree. It is fine. I think there was bits missing. Like you said, how they set up the con. I agree with what you said. Having James cordon in the movie was weird. I didn't really understand why. I loved oceans 11 movies. The clips you show. Really great moments. I feel like people are jumping on the bandwagon of full women cast. I agree 100%.
I don't understand why anyone would try to compare 8 to 11, honestly it is just pure popcorn fun. Why anyone will feel offended about a *movie* (especially one with no strong political commentary) needs to find a hobby. Kind reminder that female-led movies doesn't have to be groundbreaking every time, sometimes it can be just dumb fun too. For every female-led mediocre film to be made, there are 10 with male leads. So let's not fuss about it.
I guess the fuss was that there was a fuss made about it in the marketing for it, for specifically being female-led. Just Hollywood being Hollywood trying to kill multiple birds with the most blunt rock ever
This is exactly what I felt, I am a woman and to be honest with you all, I don't seem to feel to be represented in any way. I mean sure they are women, but do I think it's a right movie to push that message? Not really. We never question if woman can plan a heist, we just want to have equal opportunity like men in society that's all, not to be woken up from our slumber by saying, "hey girls, guess what, you can do heist, LIKE MEN! By doing it LIKE MEN!" Like bro, we don't want to be like men, we want to be cool in women's own way.
I feel like all these reboots, sequels and remakes just spend too much time on the nostalgia train and I am very much over it. Naturally, we rewatched The Rise of Skywalker today and I can't count the amount of times I rolled my eyes at the shoved in nostalgia grabs. I enjoy that film, even though I admit it's pretty bad, but the whole thing just relies on audiences previous forays into the franchise and it is so boring. Cameos are boring now because we are so used to them, I wish studios would get braver and make more original content that relies on well written characters to make us care, not "ah yes, he is related to her so you should care" *queue recognisable emotional music from previous film*
I wish they had just made an all female heist film - not trying to be anything it's not, not jumping on a bandwagon or inserting itself into an established film series. They're pretending to be feminists but really they dont think a standalone would make any money and that repeats the cycle that women need men to get them anywhere? Does this make sense!??!
totally! they make remakes and sequels etc because they don't believe women can make a good standalone! I've been trying to figure out what urks me about these remakes and you've hit the nail on the head! Thank you!
@@tryingtobeeloquent Like Jack mentioned. Widows, predominantly (not all) female heist film. It's darker and has more grit than the oceans franchise. It's not tied into any franchise and it was an amazing watch. I'm not sure how it did with critics but it was a great film where women were playing roles in a heist film that men wouldn't have fit in. More like that please.
Exactly!
Yes! That's why I hate all these 'reboot but FEmaLE' movies. They're using the fact that it features women as a gimmick to get some buzz around the movie - either people hating that fact or defending it - while admitting they still think female led movies are too much of a risk to stand on there own without the support of name recognition that comes with these franchises.
Yes exactly
Wow, I can't believe Jack just admitted to hating women
They’re just worse than me.
@@JackHoward is a G*mer confirmed
Hugo Hugenotten oUcHy
Lmao ikr
I SpiT onN sCuM LiKe hEm
JackHoward jk u seem like a chill dude ❤️🙏💀
I feel like the problem with the all-female remakes is that it would have so much more impact to create a new franchise or just stand-alone film with an all-female cast. It means that all the all-female cast movies don't do as well because they're never going to be loved more than the original, and it ends up being considered a symptom of all-female casting. I know this wasn't the point of the video, but I finally clocked what didn't sit right with me about the all-female remakes: more feminist film-making isn't just replacing the men with women, it's creating something for women in the first place.
Yep. There’s something gross about them doing Ocean’s Eleven but instead of robbing a casino the girls get to steal a pretty necklace from a fashion show.
I do agree with you Kate but think this is true of films in general at the moment. There are so many remakes and sequels and reboots around, not just for female-fronted casts. It seems to me this is just about what is profitable or at least a safer bet commercially.
I agree that the chance to create something fresh and new with the same resources and the same reach would be incredible but a) are we there yet and b) if we are, does it have to be one or the other? This film wasn't trying to be the pinnacle of feminist film making and it isn't.
@@JackHoward Gosh I hadn't thought of that. You're right. Ugh.
@@JackHoward Reminds me of how in Catwman the Big Bad was women's beauty cream. Just because they are female doesn't mean everything should revolve around cosmetics and glitzy jewelry...
I agree with that, because it makes it feel like the women are always the second best on great movie franchises. Women have to be represented as the face of beloved franchises without being in the shadow of a male character
the Jack Howard Trilogy of talking about the Oceans films is not the trilogy we ask for but the one we needed.
That Bong Joon-Ho pillow is the greatest thing I have ever seen.
Maddy Santon caaaamon
The best part of this movie are Cate Blanchett's outfits. And normally I'm not super into fashion. But yeah, her costume changes are the most exciting thing xD
Olga YES
the costume design in this film slapped
I watched this film on a plane when I had nothing else better to do and I can say that the film was funny and entertaining, there were a lot of plot holes, but it was a really fun watch.
So good enough to pass time on a plane? Stick that review on the poster!!
some films are just made for watching on a plane yanno
Just Some Guy without a Mustache why do i see you everywhere 😂
Hell, I watched this at home bcuz there was nothing else. I quite liked it, fun and light.
Just wish there was a smaller cast. That was my problem with all the other films.
Honestly, I’m just sick of this ‘remake’ crap. It doesn’t work, and it does a disservice to what entertainment with a leading female cast is actually capable of. You wouldn’t take a successful franchise like say, Killing Eve, and remake it with a leading male cast because it WOULDN’T WORK. AT ALL. Aim for new exciting three dimensional roles for women instead of giving them the male scraps bloody hell.
Yes exactly
Fred T oml exactly
The Woman King was incredibly but nobody cared about it during Awards Season
Was having a low day and decided to watch it in theatres and I personally had a blast. I wasn't expecting high brow entertainment, I was expecting a great time, and I got it.
Aidan i had absolutely the same experience
I personally enjoyed this film having not watched any of the previous Ocean’s but now I really want to watch them. Hearing you pick apart the film making is cool because you can really tell it’s something you’re passionate about. More of this plz
I liked Oceans 8. It's fun, light, and I think it hit the beats a heist movie should. They used the franchise name to get people to watch a movie with a full female cast, then just made a heist film. I don't think there't necessarily anything wrong with that.
+
There's everything wrong with that. As a filmmaker, you shouldn't count on a brand or franchise name in order to ensure your film is a success. It should be a good enough film on its own to have people go and watch it otherwise you're undercutting and undermining the progression you're trying to instill with certain choices, in this case, an all female cast.
Yes please talk about Ocean 11. Or the entire series while you're at it. The differences you pointed out on the first few frames of both films are interesting.
I guess that's my thing, I don't remember 11 super well and I am just so happy to see women on screen so I wasn't comparing it to 11. I just thought it was a fun heist film with ladies, not deep but a pretty popcorn movie that did want that Oceans connection real bad
Ocean’s 8 is a thirst trap for gay women, and it delivers beautifully, otherwise it’s just okay
I really want an in depth video on the differences between the two movies and WHY the originals are better, more substantial. The humour was just so effortless and the characters felt real. Rusty and Danny just exuded coolness and the mc's in 8 came off so tryhard to me. That movie's biggest selling point was an all female cast and that's never a good thing lol. I love the Oceans series and just wish they put more effort into it. Sigh.
I really enjoyed Ocean's 8, don't hate me
Same here im surprised people hate it that much😅
I appreciate your thoughts and insight into this but eh... I liked it. I love a heist film: Oceans 11 has been my unapologetic feel-good film ever since I first saw it aged 12 over a decade ago. And, no, Oceans 8 didn't live up to it. But it still made me feel childlike and gleeful and energised. It felt like it had a similar campy spirit. Rightly or wrongly, I think I actually preferred it to Oceans 12 and although I don't want to overstate it and I do get why you've said what you have, I *would* have found it really cool to see a film like this when I was a 12 year old girl.
I just wish it was better! I deserves better. The cast deserves better!
You want it to be the sort of film you watch at 12, grow up and still like, not realise it wasn’t great.
@@JackHoward That's fair. As much as I did enjoy Oceans 8, I did leave the cinema feeling like it could have been better. I really enjoyed your deconstruction of the first shots of Oceans 11 vs Oceans 8 by the way. Not knowing anything about films (beyond just knowing what I like and just trying to watch really widely and out of my comfort zone!) it's so interesting to see all these imperceptible decisions that influence why a film feels perfect (even in a campy, non-serious way) versus just okay.
@@JackHoward 🤦🏼♂️
Are you a fan of 13?
I feel like I should have been it’s own heist film. It could have been so good with the cast it had but because they piggy backed off the oceans franchise it was just bound to be disappointing. A genuine shame.
This was great😊 I love hearing more of your thoughts about a specific movie instead of doing a list of a bunch of them (so while I don't dislike the list videos since they are good in a different way) I would prefer you make more videos like this one😊 idk just my two cents on the topic, can't wait for your next video no matter what it is😉
On it :)
wait pls carry on talking about oceans 11. or at least rec some more heist movies??
Don’t tempt me
@@JackHoward Oh, please do. Both of those things. Talk about Ocean's 11 AND PLEASE recommend more heist films. Thank you very much!
Now you see me 1 and 2 are incredible too, my second favourite series behind oceans
All we ask for is original stories made by women, with women in them, that aren't holding onto the coattails of men! ORIGINAL stuff can easily stand on its own, and be successful. I would highly highly recommend watching Leena Norm's video on Dirty Dancing, it's really insightful as to what makes a radical film with female protagonists that doesn't feel forced or preachy. She does point out that when Dirty Dancing was made in the 80s studios had far more control over their stories, and didn't have to bend to the will of a higher parent company (it meant that money wasn't the only aim). Women have universal, human, fun and intelligent stories to tell too.
Oceans 8 Should have opened on the Girls trying to Steal something from Bank's Casino at the end of Oceans 13 only for their plan to fall through because of Danny's heist in Oceans 13, the girls should have been caught trying to escape with their heist half done, some do prison time, some just narrowly escape, etc, setting them all up to have this big grudge against Danny for ruining their heist and the last x years of their lives in Prison/on the run etc. You could even retcon O13 to show Danny knowing about the other plan and moving up his schedule to beat them to the punch. This gives the girls the idea to get back at Danny in particular, to take from him what he took from them, and to "publicly" shame him in front of his crew/others in the thief underworld. It would also set up a potential back and forth between the two squads for potential sequals.
I really love the ocean's movies. when I watched 8, I had v low expectations so I was pleasantly surprised that it wasn't too bad. HOWEVER, it drives me crazy when they do all female remakes of something. I don't want a female remake, I want a unique new property with female leads. That way it won't be stifled by comparaisons and the movie isn't stuck spending half its time trying to pay homage to the original movie that it barely has time to establish itself. I know 8, isn't perfect but when I see movies like this I just think that if they didn't have to spend so much time trying to convince you that this is an "oceans movie" (mentioning Danny, opening the movie in the same way trying to imitate plot twists) it could have been decent, with that budget and that cast they could have made a great fun movie. Sorry long rant but basically I just wish Hollywood believed more in female led movies that weren't period dramas and that they didn't think the surest way female led movies could ever be successful is if it was based of a previously successful male led film
Amen
I really enjoy watching you talk about films. My favorite thing is listening to people talk about things they’re passionate about.
Oceans 8 was my first proper heist movie (embarrassing i know) and everything about the movie felt half-hearted and poorly scripted. But, hearing you talk about oceans 11 has completely convinced me not only to watch the film but also know that i’ll enjoy it. Seeing how passionate you are about film, would you ever do a movie podcast?
Are you joking about the podcast?
JackHoward Well, you can’t expect her to know about Kermode on Film because you have only spoken about it in your last 20 video’s.
JackHoward 😅 unfortunately no. I loved ur videos with dean when i was younger and only recently rediscovered this channel. So i’ll assume that’s a yes for the podcast. I’ll check it out :)
This criticism is valid and you summarise its flaws perfectly. But I do think it’s important to point out that all-female remakes get a disproportionate amount of hatred, when other shitty remakes of beloved films are equally as bad. It’s a complicated problem that Hollywood producers seem to enjoy because it generates buzz with little amount of effort. The sequence goes: The all female remake is cheap and mediocre but probably somewhat silly/fun, lots of people criticise it for its genuine flaws while a loud group of men froth in disproportionate anger online, the Hollywood producers then rebuff any critique as simply misogyny.
Ultimately the real losers are still women: we don’t get higher quality female films because genuine critique is dismissed, and we don’t get to enjoy the crappy but fun films the same way guys do because they’re so vehemently hated.
You just put into words everything i felt about this movie since ive first seen it!
was gonna watch it for the women out of my league being clever and slick and badass but 3D print glasses are about the dullest tackiest thing I can imagine... a tragedy for the lesbians of today
Such a shame. Take as long as you need to recover.
the amount of videos i watch and podcasts i listen to where white boys tell me about films and tell me that the dark knight is incredible... and yet i keep watching them thank u jack i will continue to consume ur content
I had my doubts about this movie since I heard the line 'Women aren't noticed' referring to the reason for an all female team AT A GALA. Where the women are the ones who are the center of attention for their fashion and whatnot. If they really wanted a team that would not be noticed in that occasion it would've had to be all-male.
yeah i thought that was weird and was like maybe they'll show some evidence of what they mean during the movie? nothing dramatic, just some proof that all-female is necessary. it really wasn't except for the girl in the bathroom
I liked Ocean's 8 but I will agree that it was just... Fine. I don't have strong opinions on 11 like you do (it's a good movie, I personally didn't like how easily he got back with Julia Roberts at the end of it), but I gotta agree with a lot of the points you made about 8. I think a lot of the fun from that film (8) comes from the cast. I loved the dynamic of them a lot.
Widows is an infinitely better movie. Everyone watch Widows. It's so fucking good.
The reason why those camera choices you called out at the beginning are so important is because it sets you up to disbelieve his words and look deeper into his actions. A great setup for a heist film
I'm loving this renaissance with the Ocean's films you're having at the moment!
I liked the movie. I expected dumb fun and that's what I got
I expect better!!
Not gonna lie I enjoyed it so much when I first watched it only beacuse it was my first oceans movie and looking back now...jesus
sarah hackey It’s not your fault, Sarah. You’re safe now.
yeah man. i felt like it was just trying to do it's best soderbergh impression
I watch movies and have no idea why I like them or don't and then you come and talk about cutting to different angles that don't revel anything about the character or how the problems are too easy to fix and I'm like "yep, that's the issue" yet I could never figure it out myself. That's why I love these videos of yours!
I love Oceans 8, from when it came out it was a movie that just made me smile. However, I hadn’t seen the other Oceans - and I’m easily pleased. However I agree with your analysis of the movie, it’s missing something. I watched Oceans 11 last night after your frequent recommendation and it really gave me that sense of anticipation - even though I knew they would pull it off, I was still surprised at how (like at the end when the tapes the manager is watching we’re pre-recorded). Big fan of the films now, looking forward to watching 12.
Please continue this upload rate Jack, I’m selfishly enjoying it
Look, the movie is...fine. Like, it’s not amazing, but it’s fun and kinda dumb. However, the movie exists only to show Cate Blanchett in a green velvet suit. That’s it. That’s the only reason.
And Rihanna in that red dress
python java can’t believe I forgot about that dress please forgive me
& the green sequinned jumpsuit thing. &...every waistcoat. I don't like the film at all but I love the CB wardrobe. Stuff of bi dreams.
Rosianna Halse Rojas exactly. made this little bi heart of mine full.
Saw oceans 8 in cinema when it first came out having seen none of the other movies before. Yesterday i watched 11 and it blew my mind how much better it was. Still enjoyed 8, it just feels a lot more childish than 11? Not as slick and clever and intense, everything seemed to work out very easy for all of them.
Yes Hannah!!
Jack’s outros recently really reminding me of old Dodie
I enjoyed oceans 8 for what it’s worth as I wasn’t watching it as a remake as I have to admit I haven’t watched both 11 or 12. I didn’t see it as a edge of the seat heist movie but more a simple heist/comedy that was an easy watch.
I honestly had forgotten I watched this movie until you started describing the plot
Good sign innit
@@JackHoward when you started talking about the necklace I was like wait I remember this did I actually watch this movie
All you had to say is James Corden's in it and that's enough for me to dislike it
Why do people dislike James Corden so much? (This is not retorical, I'm genuinely asking).
Why do people dislike James Corden so much? (This is not retorical, I'm genuinely asking).
The Chronicles of Lis Because he just isn’t funny.
A spud faced chancer that somehow made it, despite having almost no redeemable qualities.
@@lifeofmrordinary he's actually a remarkably good singer! No other opinions on him from me tho
@@Adventurous-Emma He’s not a ‘remarkably’ good singer - he’s the most average singer who thinks he is better than he is because he was in a Tony winning west end play when he was younger
God, I just love your passion for films.
Another great female led heist movie is Set It Off (1996) however I don't think you can stream it anywhere only rent or buy digital/physical.
Will definitely watch Widows, thanks for the recommendation
☺️
I've honestly never watched any of the Ocean's films, nor have I noticed any of Jack's other Ocean's videos, which I am now noticing. But this video has made me go to Netflix and stick on Ocean's Eleven. Congrats Jack, you lured me in.
Oceans is not that great a franchise to begin with, it's always been style over substance, so I don't know if that's a hill worth dying on.
Are you planning on watching Hollywood?
To mention also is that the major part of the heist is made by one little man
Thanks for putting into words why I didn't like Ocean's 8! Now I'm going to watch Ocean's 11 again...
Excellent choices all round, Anne
the bong joon-ho pillow is so on brand for you
That comparison of the opening scenes was spot-on. The shots were more meaningful and the lighting actually existed; Ocean's 8 looks like an independent film in comparison.
Unfortunately we're stuck with this model of 'let's just remake a popular thing but with women' till it fails badly enough that Hollywood will stop. Thanks for your thoughts though.
Go ahead. Talk about it. Im happy to hear.
Also I enjoyed Oceans 8 but it took effort to not let myself think about the flaws until it was over so I could. Superficial and too easy were two of my big complaints as well along with the whole ex boyfriend revenge stuff just feeling forced and unneeded. If it was something like her hijacking something he was doing and getting him caught for what he planned all along, using it as a distraction for her own thing? Then I could see it justified. He would feel like an advisory. In what we actually got he just feels like a third wheel when all you needed was a bicycle.
Steven Soderbergh recommendations? Just watched The Laundromat and was blown away
Haywire just came on Amazon Prime - I really enjoyed that. Contagion is great (if you wanna watch that sort of thing right now lol). Sex, Lies and Videotape is his first film and it’s really brilliant and not fair that he made it aged 25. Side Effects it’s a very good genre bending thriller! Erin Brockovich obviously. Logan Lucky is Soderbergh doing another really fun heist movie. And Solaris - which I’m currently making a new video about. :)
You can actually tell why one thing is better than the other. I can just feel it. Thanks for putting my feelings into words :-)
I really loved Ocean’s 8 as a super fun heist film but I think tbh the biggest issue with it was the fact they tried to tie it to the other Oceans films - it’s a fun entertainment film, rather than a tense heist film like the other Oceans films. They would have done better if they’d just done it as a brand new fun heist film which happens to pay homage to the Ocean films, rather than needlessly tying it into the series and thus setting up expectations of a different style film.
Thanks for mentioning Widows....that movie is so awesome and underrated.
The cast is superb. Especially daniel kaluuya
The Kill Bill movies had a woman lead role and they were both awesome. It was a new franchise totally made with a female. However, taking a franchise that we all love such as ghostbusters or the Oceans trilogy and injecting a gender flip cast doesn’t work
From the perspective of a goldsmith this movie was a nightmare.
I watched Oceans 11 thanks to your recommendation and now its my favourite heist film and one of my favourite films generally
i like how divided the video in 2 parts just to soften any potential backlash when saying he just doesn't like the movie >;D
Sandra Bullock is the finest food actor of her generation.
Hi, I love all your videos. I’ve never seen any ‘ocean’s’ films, but I’ve wanted to watch ‘ocean’s 8’ for a while now. tbh, the main reason for that, is the cast. I love all the actresses featured in this film, and to me, it would seem like it would be an amazing film because of the cast alone.
The cast can’t save it I’m afraid. And some of them, who are usually great, really aren’t great in this. But it’s not their fault, they’ve got nothing to do.
It was just fine and that's it really. Like you said it was all too easy and the one thing that threw off the plan WAS THE PLAN! I was left wondering if that didn't happen and it all went smooth, then surely the situation leading to twist reveal woudn't have actually happened. The cast was really fun though.
Absolutely agree - and as I'm an actress no one can really tell me I'm hating on women in film! I really dislike this whole 'let's take a film full of blokes and make a meh remake but cast women in it!!! #feminism' trend that is happening right now (*cough* Ghostbusters *cough*'). How about we create an original series of films about women rather than ruin a beloved series with a bad script and an unnecessary spin-off and leave people to blame women for it? It just wasn't a good film, it was trying way too hard to be cool (and failing) and it made me super annoyed because I've been waiting for a good female heist film for ages. Watched 'Widows' too and there is truly no comparison.
It took me a while to watch it too; it met my expectations, unfortunately.
I tried to watch this yesterday and could not finish it was terrible at the beginning of the film she states that she’s been planning the heist for seven years they then set about planning the heist never mind the fact that she couldn’t possibly know what was going to happen in seven years to be able to make these plans ridiculous turned it off
i watched oceans 8 without having seen the others but seeing that sandra bullock was in it (dont get mad) and i thought it was so fun!!! i thought u were being a little harsh but woW i forgot (suppress the memory) james corden was in it ,,,,,,,,,, what was that all about!? i really like heist films bc its crime without much gore and clearly i need to go and watch oceans,,,,11 was it?
Yes! Watch Ocean’s Eleven! Enjoy!
I watch all of jack's videos but I deadass barely watch movies
I was THRILLED to see this video pop up this morning when I hopped onto RUclips. I totally get where you're coming from with the layout of 8, or I guess like immediate solution reveals throughout the movie. I haven't seen any previous Ocean's movie before, so I haven't really been exposed to, I guess, the great potential of a heist movie. This video let me know I would get a kick out them. If I really liked the potential "bottom of the pile" then I think I'd love the rest. Now you've got my mind spinning thinking about how the movie could have been different had Steven Soderbergh directed.
I think the simplest way of putting it is that he would’ve distributed the weight differently. Too much time spent on meaningless stuff instead of the more dramatic moments. Not enough focus on story. Soderbergh is also incredible at ensemble casts. In Ocean’s Eleven, you really feel the team and why everyone is important. In 8, you do not.
So, it's an okay film. My problem was that it really was not dynamic at all. No ups or downs in the story. I felt like I got into a car to take me from point A to point B and I went through one of those underground tunnels that gets you there fast and smooth. No traffic, no views, nothing interesting, just transport. But hey, at least you got there?
Also, the ending made me sad. Like, in other heist movings or guy-getting-rich-movies it ends with them (men) living in “luxury”, like mansions, escorts, diamonds - all the cliché stuff. In Oceans 8 the women get rich and they use that money to do what? Basically pay their way through patriarchy, achieving their own dreams/goals (i.e. opening a bar, living freely on a motor cycle, becoming a movie director) without the patriarchy being an obstacle. I think that could have been such an incredibly social commentary of showing that ultimately this is what women wants - equality and freedom, but instead they just completely missed that whole dimension.
Brilliantly put
@@JackHoward Thanks, I try.
Imma pause this, take a shower, make some tea and then press play. Ok?
Ok!
Please make more Ocean's 11 videos :)
Ooohh so I watched oceans eight for the first time last year cause I love hbc so I knew I wanted to watch it and I really loved it. Then I’ve been recently been going through your recommendations and I ended up watching the other three oceans films and they were really good I loved the first one like wow!! Fantastic!! I’m going to see if I can find widows to watch tomorrow!!!!!! Cheers dude!!
this makes a lot of sense. i loved the idea of the film and it was a really fun time, but i just wish it had been made differently (better). same cast, same general concept, but with different direction, different writing and it could have been great.
the disappointment oceans 8 turned out to be has fuelled me to write something better though which can only be a good thing?
Would actually love your take on the Hollywood series on Netflix. :)
Ahaha, I sort of see how it is bad storytelling but I get a specific satisfaction from just watching talented women achieve a thing with ease, whilst wearing really nice clothes. A different joy to Oceans 11, sure, but a legitimate pleasure...
I need that pillow in my life.
I get so bored watching movies so I watch jack review them so i can be hip and up to date
this is a really random and somewhat unrelated point to make, but if you ever feel like reading some great heist-y books, Six of Crows and Crooked Kingdom are brilliant. they're set in a preexisting YA fantasy universe but can definitely be read as a standalone pair, and i cannot recommend them enough!!!!!!
I 100% agree with the fact that the movie is too easy. I HATED IT I felt like watching the totally spies! I just don't get the remake thing I think. Let's invest money and amazing casts like the Ocean's 8 one (I mean this bunch of actresses is priceless, and Elizabeth banks is a very very talented and modern director who is definitely able to pull out novelty and entertainment in form movies) and create something NEW
Maybe review Widows?
I really really wish, that filmmakers made movies with women as main roles without just making sequels or remakes. I mean, I enjoyed Ghostbusters, it was stupid fun. But I still wish that there were movies with women in it and it's not just a "SEE? WOMEN! We're progressive!" I watched Lady Bird a few weeks back and loooved it, I hate that I took forever to see it, but I really saw myself in Lady Bird and that is so important with films, to be able to see yourself in the main character(s).
They just put Ocean’s 11 on the Dutch Netflix (for the longest time they only had 8 and 12 what even) so that’s my evening sorted 👌🏼
watching this video reminded me that I watched this film. Kind of sums it all up
Thanks for doing that so i don’t have to :)
Thanks for turning the lampshade so i don’t have to ;)
I agree. It is fine. I think there was bits missing. Like you said, how they set up the con. I agree with what you said. Having James cordon in the movie was weird. I didn't really understand why. I loved oceans 11 movies. The clips you show. Really great moments. I feel like people are jumping on the bandwagon of full women cast. I agree 100%.
interesting, i haven't seen any of the ocean's films! i will give 11 a go from your movie recommendations!
I don't understand why anyone would try to compare 8 to 11, honestly it is just pure popcorn fun. Why anyone will feel offended about a *movie* (especially one with no strong political commentary) needs to find a hobby. Kind reminder that female-led movies doesn't have to be groundbreaking every time, sometimes it can be just dumb fun too. For every female-led mediocre film to be made, there are 10 with male leads. So let's not fuss about it.
I guess the fuss was that there was a fuss made about it in the marketing for it, for specifically being female-led. Just Hollywood being Hollywood trying to kill multiple birds with the most blunt rock ever
Jack where can I get that Bong pillow!
Hey Jack, how would you feel about doing an episode with Mark Kermode on your top 3/5 favourite Hitchcock films? 👉👈🥺
Another great crime movie with an all female cast is Hustlers! I really enjoyed that one.
Totes agree on Widows, and the reveal was out of left field. I did not see that coming.
This is exactly what I felt, I am a woman and to be honest with you all, I don't seem to feel to be represented in any way. I mean sure they are women, but do I think it's a right movie to push that message? Not really. We never question if woman can plan a heist, we just want to have equal opportunity like men in society that's all, not to be woken up from our slumber by saying, "hey girls, guess what, you can do heist, LIKE MEN! By doing it LIKE MEN!" Like bro, we don't want to be like men, we want to be cool in women's own way.
I feel like all these reboots, sequels and remakes just spend too much time on the nostalgia train and I am very much over it. Naturally, we rewatched The Rise of Skywalker today and I can't count the amount of times I rolled my eyes at the shoved in nostalgia grabs. I enjoy that film, even though I admit it's pretty bad, but the whole thing just relies on audiences previous forays into the franchise and it is so boring. Cameos are boring now because we are so used to them, I wish studios would get braver and make more original content that relies on well written characters to make us care, not "ah yes, he is related to her so you should care" *queue recognisable emotional music from previous film*
Also, the Danny's watch shows a pair of die with numbers five and six. 5+6=11. It is literally showing you ocean's 11
Ugh and you know they thought that was cool and clever when actually it’s annoying