It’s a give and take. I’m a fan of packaging statcast numbers in a way where there’s high watermarks we hold onto similar to the way we do with hitting .300. Changes in starter usage I would say are more a problem outside the scope of advanced analytics though.
I think the bit about Alcantara really just demonstrates the point that peripheral stats are more of a fascination and a tiebreaker. Logan Webb's 2023 would look probably pretty poor compared to Snell's but he had excellent control and just ate up innings because he challenged batters and usually won. The two had comparable production by WAR metrics. (Even as a Giants fan I think Snell was right to win the award irrespective of where he plays for now or then, but the discrepancy in production was smaller than their discrepancy in peripherals).
I have a theory for why degrom was lower than expected. It's because your model doesn't heavily weight control. Degrom's FB and slider individually don't have exciting movement profiles, although they're thrown very hard. What makes them elite is the insane precision at which he locates them.
Sucks that the 2010 and 2014 cy young races are just out of the statcast era. Felix was utterly dominant and most definitely deserved it in 2014 and was robbed against Kluber.
No More Fielders, at 24:55 in the video on the list it said Gerrit Cole threw a sinker in 2021, I was there that entire year I don't remember him throwing a single sinker. In Houston he abandoned the sinker for just the 4-seamers.
Shocked Kershaw’s 2014 didn’t make the list. Still to this day felt like the greatest season a pitcher ever had that I can remember. And I’m a Giants fan. But he started the season injured, missed 5-6 starts. And still won Cy Young AND MVP. 1.77 ERA / 1.81 FIP. His best season imo
I was just thinking it was time for no more fielders to upload, big W! Love your videos, as an old school baseball guy some baseball RUclipsrs can be a lil too buck with the modern stats, but you explain it in an understandable and digestible way.
The most dominant pitching I’ve ever seen was Pedro Martinez getting 17 Ks against the Yankees. It was an unreal performance. Prime Pedro was the GOAT. But I want to hear you talk about Jesse Orosco.
I wonder if we’ll see more pitchers take the Alcantara approach. I would argue that he’s more valuable as someone who tries to get quick outs and go deep into games than a Blake Snell type. I’m much more of an old school guy so I’m biased towards that
I remember being disappointed by the 2016 Sox and thinking "Yeah what's with this Porcello guy we paid so much money for? He's good but our past aces have been better, so he can't be that amazing..." I was so shocked to hear he won Cy Young, like, bruh, they really don't have anyone better?
I think Buehler shouldve won vs Burnes or Wheeler.. He had a better ERA+ (by one point), and threw 40 more innings then Burnes.. Wheeler was great, but he had a 150 ERA+ (vs Walkers 171) and only threw 6 more innings. Wheeler had a 2.78 ERA all in all, vs Walker's 2.47, This means Buehler wouldve had to throw 6 innings and 9 earned runs, to have the same ERA, in the same amount of innings as wheeler.
That’s very fair. I had them both up there but being a Braves fan I had seen a lot more of wheeler so a bit biased here. Buehler really gave it his all that season too seeing as his elbow has never really recovered since.
I agree that relievers shouldn’t win the Cy Young, but that 2016 Britton season was absolutely insane. His ERA+ was a 803! That’s completely unheard of! I think he shoulda won over Porcello, Verlander, and Kluber, but I can understand choosing Verlander or Kluber over him, but Porcello? Not in a million years.
Bro You can't blame Degrom , if he's not getting enough run support . 2018 Mets's Offense was so bad . If he's team scored atleast 5 runs then I don't think he would have had any losses in his W-L record.
I'm a fan of the team number 1 played for (no spoilers hehe) and I did not expect that at all. I knew he was more of an advanced metric winner, but did think those metrics loved him THAT much.
Seems unsurprising that this model would select snell if it doesn't account for volume, right? or did I miss something about volume? im actually a tad surprised it didn't skew even more heavily towards lower-usage seasons. e.g. basically every year the best closer would probably beat out the cy young winner on this rubric (Similarly, it sorta explains Alcantara showing up in "worst")
How did Scherzer compare to some of these seasons? Was there a big gap between like the 5th and 6th best season? Also great video, I love getting into these deep dive stats
Max Scherzer’s seasons were actually right next to each other at 10 and 11 with 2016 scoring higher. It’s funny bc my dumbstuff+ liked 2016 Scherzer’s fastball A LOT while loving 2017’s slider. His main drawbacks were not scoring well in barrel rate and as a consequence of being slightly homer prone, his xFIP- didn’t score particularly high either. Thank you. I really enjoy these videos for the change of pace.
@@nomorefielders That's very interesting, especially since Scherzer had such a higher era+ in 2017 as well as lower WHIP and H/9, but must be a lot of those under the hood numbers you mention that bump 2016 up just enough over it. Here's hoping Dumbstuff+ is the next big stat we use in advanced stats for pitchers lol
For me, I go straight to the game logs, and I take a look at how many games they “should have won” if they’d had reasonable offensive support (approx 3-4 runs depending on how many innings they pitched) and bullpen help. Then I look at who they did poorly against, and who they did well against. Then I might *glance* at how good or bad was the defense of their team. Then I might look at how many innings they threw. I love velo, movement, all those things. But, *on their own*, I believe they have nothing to do with “who was the best”. Look at what results they got and how they got it (in terms of pitching effectively, good/bad defense, etc.). Pitcher highlights from games these days are just a parade of their strikeouts. And I understand that. But what about that cutter they through to get a weak grounder to get out of a jam unscathed? To me, *that’s* a pitcher.
I'm amazed that there's no Scherzer or Verlander on here. Scherzer's 2017 is incredible with that 0.902 WHIP... and Verlander with the **0.803** in 2019 being even more impressive. I assume it's due to using FIP rather than WHIP as a favored peripheral. If you used WHIP instead I feel you'd have a much stronger list. It's basically the pitcher's OBP allowed.
I won’t lie, I originally thought you just said “drop of a hat” wrong until I processed it and realized it was great wordplay with “the swap of a hat”!!
2 things I would like to point out. Stuff+ is a horrible way to rank pitchers seasons, doesn't matter if you're model hates it if it works. Personally I would have completely removed it from the equation, and probably looked at results or something on the 2 best pitches. Secondly I think you should have factored for volume of innings as well. Volume is extremely valuable and not considering it or WAR at all, is a really bad way to look at pitching. Also probably would have had Snell lower. It's also what separates Degrom from Burnes, he had 50 more innings of baseball that was basically as dominant as Burnes.
Why have extension as its own category, and not part of stuff+? Extension functions the same as pitch velocity in that it reduces the amount of time a hitter has to react. Weighting extension as highly as the entirety of a breaking balls stuff+ seems wrong to me. to me it would make more sense to be factored into stuff+ by using extension-corrected "perceived velocity" instead of observed pitch velocity.
So my approach even when I pitched was basically like Snells. Just gonna try to slide this here into that there outside corner on a 3-2 count. DISCLAIMER. That technique doesn’t work on The Show. Lmao. Also, Snell has always given me Kenny Powers vibes. Is he a dick, is he a nice guy? Who knows?
i look forward to ohtani coming back from injury, degrom too, i can see both of them winning a cy young within the next 5 years degrom has aged like fine wine throughout his career, and voters would probably be biased toward the 2 way sensation shotime ;p
First they came for the pitcher W\L, and I did not speak out - Because I thought it was outdated Then they came for the uncontextualized stats, and I did not speak out - Because I thought context was important Then they started including "under the hood" numbers, and I did not speak out - Because I thought they deserved a place in the conversation Then they came for the results on the field, in favor of expected numbers And there was no one left To speak out for me I spoke out. I disliked the video
If I had a vote each year: AL 2015 - Price 2016 - Verlander 2017 - Sale 2018 - Verlander 2019 - Cole 2020 - Bieber 2021 - Cole 2022 - Verlander 2023 - Cole 2024 - Skubal NL 2015 - Greinke 2016 - Scherzer 2017 - Scherzer 2018 - DeGrom 2019 - Scherzer 2020 - Bauer 2021 - Wheeler/Scherzer tie 2022 - Alcantara 2023 - Snell 2024 - Sale I seriously question whether half of the voters even watch a single game all year.
Porcello > Verlander was obviously egregious. That speaks for itself. But what doesn't get talked about enough is how much of a robbery Verlander > Cole was. Verlander's numbers would win the award in 99% of years. But Cole had what I call a "Super Cy Young" year. When you go through the award winners on a list, it pops as one of the best pitching seasons ever. Randy Johnson, Greg Maddux, Pedro Martinez, Roger Clemens, Dwight Gooden, Sandy Koufax, Nolan Ryan (lol no CYAs), Bob Gibson. Verlander got one more TEAM win. The ASTROS performed better when Verlander pitched. But if you watched the games, Cole was a whole tier more dominant than Verlander. Houston even went with Cole as their ace by season's end. Cole demolished lineups. Cole had stuff that was as nasty as relievers. I think that had Verlander not pitched a no-hitter in September, Cole would have been unanimous, even if the two pitchers ended with the identical stats as they did in real life. Verlander is my favorite pitcher, and I think he got robbed by Snell and Porcello. But Cole had the most dominant AL season since Roger Clemens.
I’m currently touring with Forrest Isnt Dead. Just dropped a new single on Spotify. open.spotify.com/track/6x717195C4orGZVEnKdJzr?si=BYF_zHvwRd61ropnQwYT1Q&context=spotify%3Aalbum%3A3fHfx2q9Pt2Rn9g5QwBLR5
Ok ok ok...but...imagine JV's 2019 season without the juiced ball. His WHIP that year was 0.803 which is patently absurd. Idk what it all looked like under the hood (or if he should've even won given Cole's all-time K rate)...but 300 Ks, led MLB in innings, that WHIP...he just also gave up a whopping 36 HRs that year. If, say 10 of those balls travel 10 ft less far we could be talking about an ERA in the 1s.
DeGrom's Mets had Pedro Martinez syndrome, a psychological hitting malady Red Sox fans from the turn of the century are very familiar with in which a team has one godlike star pitcher, and the other starters are much worse by comparison, and this vastly limits the motivation of hitters to perform well with that pitcher on the mound. "We don't have to hit because our guy will give up like one run." It sounds stupid but how else do you explain the Mets winning fewer games with their ace on the mound than not?
I’m from Cleveland and when Kluber first started throwing at a cry young level it just never felt like he was a superstar level pitcher. It felt like at any moment it could all unravel but as long as he was in Cleveland it was mostly magic
23:15 As an "h" Zach myself, everyone who spells Zach with a K is wrong. But I've never met another Zach, spelled with a K or H or any other way, who isn't cool as hell.
Personally I disagree on centering Cy Young conversations on stuff and peripherals, as they're never gonna be even close to as reliable as actual recopilatory stats like ERA/ERA+, FIP, K/9 etc... Very entertaining video though.
@@onedaysoon5351 a slider doesn't break like a curve. It moves way less. That's the point of the sweeper. It's really not complicating anything but a hitters pitch recognition. Kinda like with change up variants
@@ShrexyGuy Just because it has more break doesn't make it a completely different pitch. A sinker with 6 inches of break and a sinker with 14 inches of break are still both sinkers
@@onedaysoon5351I was stating the most obvious difference. There's also more sideways break and a lower velocity for sweepers. Like splitter vs sinker; or are those the same too?
I disagree on Sandy. I think context matters for the years and my god he was the boogeyman that year. Belt to ass on every single lineup he faced that year 😮💨
I knew Rick Porcello would be the worst. He never really had many good seasons before or after that, never reaching the same heights again. But Verlander and him were close that year. Either one could've won. As a Sox fan, I was happy for Rick, knowing he'd probably never win another big award.
He has thrown over 150 innings in his career twice. Wasnt even pacing for it in 2020. It won't be hate when he pitches as many innings as an ace should
Again it depends on what stats you are looking for. I could’ve ran the numbers in a way that favored deGrom, but the methodology I used just happened to place him not at number 1. That’s the fun of this whole exercise.
2020s winner may be disgusting (or whatever), but that is not a reason to dismiss his stats. It's about stats, not the person. Pretty empty reason to not investigate someone's stats. He may have ranked in the top 3 or whatever.
saying that Cole should have won easily over Ray is a bit extreme, especially given that the primary reasoning for that is entirely based on predictive stats and not descriptive ones. The 'surface stats' are pretty clearly in Ray's favor. I don't care what their FIPs were, Ray obviously limited offense and runs better than Cole did and thus was more valuable. This happens to be the difference between fWAR and bWAR -- fWAR: Ray 3.9 vs. Cole 5.2 bWAR: Ray 6.9 vs Cole 5.7 Fangraphs thinks Cole *should* have been better, but in reality he wasn't. Ray wins CYA, end of story.
Honestly very good point. I think I’d have more of an argument if their surface stats were closer, but in reality Ray had the clear edge. I still stand by my argument that if the race is too close to call, then it’s valid to use under the surface stats, but I definitely overstated Cole’s stats over Ray’s.
@@nomorefielders Certainly. I think the value of peripherals is precisely for tie breaking (in terms of deciding awards), and Cole clearly has better peripherals. If the surface stats were closer (maybe 3.00 vs. 3.20 era or closer) I wouldn’t mind the argument that Cole performed better. I guess my beef here is really with the way fangraphs calculates their pitching WAR. Not the biggest FIP fan
@@_ve0 I used to be a FIP hater but I've come around to it in recent years. Its a stat where its important to use your own discretion for it. Some pitchers are inherently going to outperform their FIP, but I would argue 75% of pitchers are pitching in a way that FIP would reflect highly upon, but yes we do need to distinguish the 25% who rely on soft contact to get their outs.
You need a follow up video about the 2020 season, with Bauer killing it with his Mexican league videos now. Students of pitching have now learned more from him, than from all other pitchers in MLB history combined.
Well, I gave this video a thumbs down rating. The reason is simple: The title, "The 5 Best (and 3 Worst) Cy Young Seasons," indicates that it is the five best and three worst of all Cy Young Award winners. In fact, the video only involves those winners since 2015 and excludes 2020. The Cy young Award has been awarded since 1956 to the single best pitcher in MLB and since 1968 to the best pitcher in each the NL and AL. That's a fair number of award recipients. You video doesn't even scratch the surface. This is nothing more than click-bait!
Actually watching the games with your own eyes to base your decisions on is hardly a "limited view". Using analytics as basically the end all be all towards evaluating everything these days... now THAT, would be a limited view indeed. Douchey people like you that have obviously never actually played a competitive sport in your lives...it's the voice that gives it away... are ruining the game that I adore. And it's so obnoxious.
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This better be a video about Fortnite.
NMF stands for Not Much Fortnite so you're probably out of luck
i have bad news
Gaming channel dropping soon but it’ll only be PS2 games
@@nomorefieldersMr. More Fielders it’s been 30 minutes I know ur in Philly rn plz tell me ur still ok
Don’t wry it is
I wonder where some of the pitchers who didn't win a Cy Young award would place.
Hey if you give me some names I’ll add them to the spreadsheet.
@@nomorefielders One that jumps to mind is 2019 Gerrit Cole.
@@rashiroselindid u know that 2019 Gerrit Cole had a 1.02 ERA and he slayed the Ender Dragon?
@@nomorefielders2016 Johnny Cueto deserves a look I think
Nolan Ryan during his time with the angels,rangers and astros
I understand the value of statcast stats, but i miss the baseball i grew up with 200 IP Pitchers and .300 avg weren't so rare. Also the injuries
It’s a give and take. I’m a fan of packaging statcast numbers in a way where there’s high watermarks we hold onto similar to the way we do with hitting .300. Changes in starter usage I would say are more a problem outside the scope of advanced analytics though.
I think the bit about Alcantara really just demonstrates the point that peripheral stats are more of a fascination and a tiebreaker. Logan Webb's 2023 would look probably pretty poor compared to Snell's but he had excellent control and just ate up innings because he challenged batters and usually won. The two had comparable production by WAR metrics. (Even as a Giants fan I think Snell was right to win the award irrespective of where he plays for now or then, but the discrepancy in production was smaller than their discrepancy in peripherals).
I have a theory for why degrom was lower than expected.
It's because your model doesn't heavily weight control. Degrom's FB and slider individually don't have exciting movement profiles, although they're thrown very hard. What makes them elite is the insane precision at which he locates them.
Sucks that the 2010 and 2014 cy young races are just out of the statcast era. Felix was utterly dominant and most definitely deserved it in 2014 and was robbed against Kluber.
He’s a guy alongside Greg Maddux and Kerry Wood who I wish we got statcast numbers for.
explaining why you picked what you picked is the best part tho, who can hate that
Cool people who yell at random people through their keyboards. That’s who
Dont listen to them@@nomorefielders
It’s called the TikTok generation. They can’t handle anything over 60 seconds long especially if it explains something
@@chriswebb5544 their attention span be fucked up 💀
Oh yeah, the xwobacons. I think Optimus Prime had a cool brawl with them in one of the newer TV shows.
No More Fielders, at 24:55 in the video on the list it said Gerrit Cole threw a sinker in 2021, I was there that entire year I don't remember him throwing a single sinker. In Houston he abandoned the sinker for just the 4-seamers.
Shocked Kershaw’s 2014 didn’t make the list. Still to this day felt like the greatest season a pitcher ever had that I can remember. And I’m a Giants fan. But he started the season injured, missed 5-6 starts. And still won Cy Young AND MVP. 1.77 ERA / 1.81 FIP. His best season imo
It was 2015 onward
It was so good that it should have counted for a list that it doesn't qualify for
@@User-b9q2z whoops
I was just thinking it was time for no more fielders to upload, big W! Love your videos, as an old school baseball guy some baseball RUclipsrs can be a lil too buck with the modern stats, but you explain it in an understandable and digestible way.
I appreciate it man. I always worry I get too heady on these videos so it’s good to know I communicate it in an engaging way.
The most dominant pitching I’ve ever seen was Pedro Martinez getting 17 Ks against the Yankees. It was an unreal performance. Prime Pedro was the GOAT. But I want to hear you talk about Jesse Orosco.
I’ll make it and it’ll be the best damn video on the all time leader in appearances for a pitcher
@@nomorefielders I hope so! I’m an O’s fan, and an Orosco fan.
I wonder if we’ll see more pitchers take the Alcantara approach. I would argue that he’s more valuable as someone who tries to get quick outs and go deep into games than a Blake Snell type. I’m much more of an old school guy so I’m biased towards that
I remember being disappointed by the 2016 Sox and thinking "Yeah what's with this Porcello guy we paid so much money for? He's good but our past aces have been better, so he can't be that amazing..." I was so shocked to hear he won Cy Young, like, bruh, they really don't have anyone better?
I think Buehler shouldve won vs Burnes or Wheeler.. He had a better ERA+ (by one point), and threw 40 more innings then Burnes.. Wheeler was great, but he had a 150 ERA+ (vs Walkers 171) and only threw 6 more innings. Wheeler had a 2.78 ERA all in all, vs Walker's 2.47, This means Buehler wouldve had to throw 6 innings and 9 earned runs, to have the same ERA, in the same amount of innings as wheeler.
That’s very fair. I had them both up there but being a Braves fan I had seen a lot more of wheeler so a bit biased here. Buehler really gave it his all that season too seeing as his elbow has never really recovered since.
Great video. No notes. Just wanted to drop in and say I really wish we had statcast data on Cliff Lee’s 2008 Cy Young campaign. 😢
I agree that relievers shouldn’t win the Cy Young, but that 2016 Britton season was absolutely insane. His ERA+ was a 803! That’s completely unheard of! I think he shoulda won over Porcello, Verlander, and Kluber, but I can understand choosing Verlander or Kluber over him, but Porcello? Not in a million years.
Bro You can't blame Degrom , if he's not getting enough run support . 2018 Mets's Offense was so bad . If he's team scored atleast 5 runs then I don't think he would have had any losses in his W-L record.
I love a good innings eater
I'm a fan of the team number 1 played for (no spoilers hehe) and I did not expect that at all. I knew he was more of an advanced metric winner, but did think those metrics loved him THAT much.
He didn’t even have as as good a season as Alcantara in 2022, I’d rather take 60 more innings thanks
Is the other Cy Young Winner mentioned at 9:37 Barry Zito?
This is only my 2nd season watching baseball as a true fan (GO Phils). I have no clue what half of these stats mean but I love the content
Ahhh a video from the best baseball creator on the site how nice
Ok I know I’m spam commenting but the only reason JV lost was the clowns who didn’t put him on the ballot, not the ranked choice method
I still blame ranked choice for allowing it to happen
21 degrom would have been number 1 on this for sure it sucks. Awesome video man
Seems unsurprising that this model would select snell if it doesn't account for volume, right? or did I miss something about volume? im actually a tad surprised it didn't skew even more heavily towards lower-usage seasons. e.g. basically every year the best closer would probably beat out the cy young winner on this rubric
(Similarly, it sorta explains Alcantara showing up in "worst")
How did Scherzer compare to some of these seasons? Was there a big gap between like the 5th and 6th best season?
Also great video, I love getting into these deep dive stats
Max Scherzer’s seasons were actually right next to each other at 10 and 11 with 2016 scoring higher. It’s funny bc my dumbstuff+ liked 2016 Scherzer’s fastball A LOT while loving 2017’s slider. His main drawbacks were not scoring well in barrel rate and as a consequence of being slightly homer prone, his xFIP- didn’t score particularly high either.
Thank you. I really enjoy these videos for the change of pace.
@@nomorefielders That's very interesting, especially since Scherzer had such a higher era+ in 2017 as well as lower WHIP and H/9, but must be a lot of those under the hood numbers you mention that bump 2016 up just enough over it. Here's hoping Dumbstuff+ is the next big stat we use in advanced stats for pitchers lol
For me, I go straight to the game logs, and I take a look at how many games they “should have won” if they’d had reasonable offensive support (approx 3-4 runs depending on how many innings they pitched) and bullpen help.
Then I look at who they did poorly against, and who they did well against.
Then I might *glance* at how good or bad was the defense of their team.
Then I might look at how many innings they threw.
I love velo, movement, all those things. But, *on their own*, I believe they have nothing to do with “who was the best”.
Look at what results they got and how they got it (in terms of pitching effectively, good/bad defense, etc.).
Pitcher highlights from games these days are just a parade of their strikeouts. And I understand that. But what about that cutter they through to get a weak grounder to get out of a jam unscathed? To me, *that’s* a pitcher.
preparing my red sox sensibilities for (fair) porcello slander
I'm amazed that there's no Scherzer or Verlander on here. Scherzer's 2017 is incredible with that 0.902 WHIP... and Verlander with the **0.803** in 2019 being even more impressive. I assume it's due to using FIP rather than WHIP as a favored peripheral. If you used WHIP instead I feel you'd have a much stronger list. It's basically the pitcher's OBP allowed.
I won’t lie, I originally thought you just said “drop of a hat” wrong until I processed it and realized it was great wordplay with “the swap of a hat”!!
We like to do a little wordplay around here. Keeps the spirits up.
Do a video on the best NON cy young seasons (2019 Cole gotta be on that list)
2 things I would like to point out. Stuff+ is a horrible way to rank pitchers seasons, doesn't matter if you're model hates it if it works. Personally I would have completely removed it from the equation, and probably looked at results or something on the 2 best pitches. Secondly I think you should have factored for volume of innings as well. Volume is extremely valuable and not considering it or WAR at all, is a really bad way to look at pitching. Also probably would have had Snell lower. It's also what separates Degrom from Burnes, he had 50 more innings of baseball that was basically as dominant as Burnes.
Why have extension as its own category, and not part of stuff+? Extension functions the same as pitch velocity in that it reduces the amount of time a hitter has to react. Weighting extension as highly as the entirety of a breaking balls stuff+ seems wrong to me. to me it would make more sense to be factored into stuff+ by using extension-corrected "perceived velocity" instead of observed pitch velocity.
“I hope to see his slider for the rest of his career.”
So 5 years and 6 more innings 😂
The sandy placing surprised me the most.
I understand there are some flaws in Porcello’s 2016 but let’s be honest, he still had a helluva season
Can’t WAIT for another healthy DeGrom season! The guy needs to stay on the field to bolster his HOF case.
You should do best non Cy Young pitching seasons
Only channel I watch ads for
I appreciate it. I try to make them as interesting and engaging as I can.
20:09 That’s the right way to pronounce it.
Why did I know it would be Corbin’s 2021 shit was legendary.
So my approach even when I pitched was basically like Snells. Just gonna try to slide this here into that there outside corner on a 3-2 count. DISCLAIMER. That technique doesn’t work on The Show. Lmao. Also, Snell has always given me Kenny Powers vibes. Is he a dick, is he a nice guy? Who knows?
i look forward to ohtani coming back from injury, degrom too, i can see both of them winning a cy young within the next 5 years degrom has aged like fine wine throughout his career, and voters would probably be biased toward the 2 way sensation shotime ;p
"aged like fine wine"
Are you serious? He hasn't been able to stay on the field for a full season in how many years now?
First they came for the pitcher W\L, and I did not speak out -
Because I thought it was outdated
Then they came for the uncontextualized stats, and I did not speak out -
Because I thought context was important
Then they started including "under the hood" numbers, and I did not speak out -
Because I thought they deserved a place in the conversation
Then they came for the results on the field, in favor of expected numbers
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
I spoke out. I disliked the video
If I had a vote each year:
AL
2015 - Price
2016 - Verlander
2017 - Sale
2018 - Verlander
2019 - Cole
2020 - Bieber
2021 - Cole
2022 - Verlander
2023 - Cole
2024 - Skubal
NL
2015 - Greinke
2016 - Scherzer
2017 - Scherzer
2018 - DeGrom
2019 - Scherzer
2020 - Bauer
2021 - Wheeler/Scherzer tie
2022 - Alcantara
2023 - Snell
2024 - Sale
I seriously question whether half of the voters even watch a single game all year.
Porcello > Verlander was obviously egregious. That speaks for itself. But what doesn't get talked about enough is how much of a robbery Verlander > Cole was.
Verlander's numbers would win the award in 99% of years. But Cole had what I call a "Super Cy Young" year.
When you go through the award winners on a list, it pops as one of the best pitching seasons ever. Randy Johnson, Greg Maddux, Pedro Martinez, Roger Clemens, Dwight Gooden, Sandy Koufax, Nolan Ryan (lol no CYAs), Bob Gibson.
Verlander got one more TEAM win. The ASTROS performed better when Verlander pitched. But if you watched the games, Cole was a whole tier more dominant than Verlander. Houston even went with Cole as their ace by season's end. Cole demolished lineups. Cole had stuff that was as nasty as relievers.
I think that had Verlander not pitched a no-hitter in September, Cole would have been unanimous, even if the two pitchers ended with the identical stats as they did in real life.
Verlander is my favorite pitcher, and I think he got robbed by Snell and Porcello. But Cole had the most dominant AL season since Roger Clemens.
Yesss more Kluberrrrrr
What's your band called bro. Great vid
I’m currently touring with Forrest Isnt Dead. Just dropped a new single on Spotify.
open.spotify.com/track/6x717195C4orGZVEnKdJzr?si=BYF_zHvwRd61ropnQwYT1Q&context=spotify%3Aalbum%3A3fHfx2q9Pt2Rn9g5QwBLR5
2021 Burnes was so special
Ok ok ok...but...imagine JV's 2019 season without the juiced ball. His WHIP that year was 0.803 which is patently absurd. Idk what it all looked like under the hood (or if he should've even won given Cole's all-time K rate)...but 300 Ks, led MLB in innings, that WHIP...he just also gave up a whopping 36 HRs that year. If, say 10 of those balls travel 10 ft less far we could be talking about an ERA in the 1s.
DeGrom's Mets had Pedro Martinez syndrome, a psychological hitting malady Red Sox fans from the turn of the century are very familiar with in which a team has one godlike star pitcher, and the other starters are much worse by comparison, and this vastly limits the motivation of hitters to perform well with that pitcher on the mound. "We don't have to hit because our guy will give up like one run." It sounds stupid but how else do you explain the Mets winning fewer games with their ace on the mound than not?
The Chad innings eater will rise
Lmao me in August 2024 seeing the best Cy Young winmer give me Ubaldo Jimenez flashbacks
What is this award in nba terms?
Kluber truly was amazing...........
Blake Snell is phenomenal.
I’m from Cleveland and when Kluber first started throwing at a cry young level it just never felt like he was a superstar level pitcher. It felt like at any moment it could all unravel but as long as he was in Cleveland it was mostly magic
No 2014 Kershaw is criminal
nice vid
Always look forward to seeing your comment.
Id l9ve to see where Degrom's 2021 places in this.
0:00 haven’t started the video and I already feel like Porcello will make an appearance on this list … and NOT for having the best Cy young season🙃
23:15 As an "h" Zach myself, everyone who spells Zach with a K is wrong. But I've never met another Zach, spelled with a K or H or any other way, who isn't cool as hell.
Personally I disagree on centering Cy Young conversations on stuff and peripherals, as they're never gonna be even close to as reliable as actual recopilatory stats like ERA/ERA+, FIP, K/9 etc... Very entertaining video though.
There is an A before the R so definitely is Al-Can-Tara not Al-Can-Tra
15:57 I hate how "Sweeper" has taken the place of the Slurve. It's a Slurve
Slurve is a genuine mix between a slider and curve. A good sweeper should have movement more directly like a sideways moving curveball
@@ShrexyGuy So a slider? Let's not make things more confusing. Slider. Curveball. Slurve. That's all we need
@@onedaysoon5351 a slider doesn't break like a curve. It moves way less. That's the point of the sweeper.
It's really not complicating anything but a hitters pitch recognition. Kinda like with change up variants
@@ShrexyGuy Just because it has more break doesn't make it a completely different pitch. A sinker with 6 inches of break and a sinker with 14 inches of break are still both sinkers
@@onedaysoon5351I was stating the most obvious difference. There's also more sideways break and a lower velocity for sweepers.
Like splitter vs sinker; or are those the same too?
"We could never explain why they were so good."
Never needed to... 😐. But hey. 'Metrics'...
I disagree on Sandy. I think context matters for the years and my god he was the boogeyman that year. Belt to ass on every single lineup he faced that year 😮💨
I knew Rick Porcello would be the worst. He never really had many good seasons before or after that, never reaching the same heights again. But Verlander and him were close that year. Either one could've won. As a Sox fan, I was happy for Rick, knowing he'd probably never win another big award.
Little help with Sandy. It’s pronounced like All-kahn-tara because of the á
Damn, man. What did Julio Urias do to you? 🤣
I just googled him... Nevermind.
😂😂😂
TIMMY LINCECUM better be on this list!!!!
'09 '10 no one had a more dominate run for 2 years in a row than TIMMY L. WS CHAMP BACK TO BACK CY YOUNGS FOO!
Wake up babe no more fielders posted
i love u no more fielders
nvm 2023 nationals slander i HATE no more fielders now
nvm he's arguing that cy young awards should be judged on results i LOVE no more fielders again
I love u 2 thenookofficial
Aw, that Snell Haterade is weeeeaaaaakkk.
He has thrown over 150 innings in his career twice. Wasnt even pacing for it in 2020. It won't be hate when he pitches as many innings as an ace should
That’s why I need to drink MORE
@@nomorefielders lololol, full disclosure - i'm a Snell fanboy!
Volume should have been taken into consideration somehow, imo
I explicitly didn’t want to include volume for this exercise but I do agree it deserves a place in the overall conversation.
what are the reasons for not including 2020? they are not obvious to me.
Because they played a third of the season
The breaking ball at 9:39 is absolutely disgusting
can't even hate on deGrom being 3rd when the stats prove it
Again it depends on what stats you are looking for. I could’ve ran the numbers in a way that favored deGrom, but the methodology I used just happened to place him not at number 1. That’s the fun of this whole exercise.
I mean 2021 was literally ray let less runs score and threw more innings than Cole
2020s winner may be disgusting (or whatever), but that is not a reason to dismiss his stats. It's about stats, not the person. Pretty empty reason to not investigate someone's stats. He may have ranked in the top 3 or whatever.
saying that Cole should have won easily over Ray is a bit extreme, especially given that the primary reasoning for that is entirely based on predictive stats and not descriptive ones.
The 'surface stats' are pretty clearly in Ray's favor. I don't care what their FIPs were, Ray obviously limited offense and runs better than Cole did and thus was more valuable.
This happens to be the difference between fWAR and bWAR --
fWAR: Ray 3.9 vs. Cole 5.2
bWAR: Ray 6.9 vs Cole 5.7
Fangraphs thinks Cole *should* have been better, but in reality he wasn't. Ray wins CYA, end of story.
Honestly very good point. I think I’d have more of an argument if their surface stats were closer, but in reality Ray had the clear edge. I still stand by my argument that if the race is too close to call, then it’s valid to use under the surface stats, but I definitely overstated Cole’s stats over Ray’s.
@@nomorefielders Certainly. I think the value of peripherals is precisely for tie breaking (in terms of deciding awards), and Cole clearly has better peripherals. If the surface stats were closer (maybe 3.00 vs. 3.20 era or closer) I wouldn’t mind the argument that Cole performed better.
I guess my beef here is really with the way fangraphs calculates their pitching WAR. Not the biggest FIP fan
@@_ve0 I used to be a FIP hater but I've come around to it in recent years. Its a stat where its important to use your own discretion for it. Some pitchers are inherently going to outperform their FIP, but I would argue 75% of pitchers are pitching in a way that FIP would reflect highly upon, but yes we do need to distinguish the 25% who rely on soft contact to get their outs.
if i see rick p hate. ima fight. because the hateful grape proved why he should have won
Haven’t finished yet but the fact that Nolan Ryan has 7 no hitters and not a single cy young is criminal considering how long his career was
All those sliders were for baez.
I think it’s Al can tear uh
So why does Kershaw not deserve it? His stats were better
You need a follow up video about the 2020 season, with Bauer killing it with his Mexican league videos now. Students of pitching have now learned more from him, than from all other pitchers in MLB history combined.
Does Bauer choke you and beat you up while you're riding his meat like that?
Wheeler was robbed man almost sixty more innings on the field. best ability is availability
I think Cole is the worst Cy Young Winner tbh
Everyone shut up it's Jacob Degrom day
Jacob deGrom week (just in time for his grand return too)
Ditch the sound effects
No
Well, I gave this video a thumbs down rating. The reason is simple: The title, "The 5 Best (and 3 Worst) Cy Young Seasons," indicates that it is the five best and three worst of all Cy Young Award winners. In fact, the video only involves those winners since 2015 and excludes 2020. The Cy young Award has been awarded since 1956 to the single best pitcher in MLB and since 1968 to the best pitcher in each the NL and AL. That's a fair number of award recipients. You video doesn't even scratch the surface. This is nothing more than click-bait!
Love your content but u do not look like you watch baseball 😂
Honorary 4th worst HAS to go to 2020 Trevor Bauer. I think we can all agree the 2020 season should've been scrapped entirely
Actually watching the games with your own eyes to base your decisions on is hardly a "limited view". Using analytics as basically the end all be all towards evaluating everything these days... now THAT, would be a limited view indeed.
Douchey people like you that have obviously never actually played a competitive sport in your lives...it's the voice that gives it away... are ruining the game that I adore. And it's so obnoxious.
Baseball became terrible once we entered the stat cast era.
Why do you say this?
Your numbers don't mean nothing if degrom isn't number 1
u poop
👀👀👀👀
Uhh what about Verlanders 2019?
It’s on there just outside the top 5.