This Outlet Was Buried! How Do You Find a Buried Receptacle?
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- Опубликовано: 14 июн 2024
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Many of us in the electrical contracting business have come across the following issue at least once. We have an electrical rough in installation where several of the devices in a circuit are operating but there are a few that don’t. In today’s episode of electrician U, Dustin covers one of the trade terms none of us wants to hear- a buried receptacle!
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When it comes to finding a buried receptacle, there are several ways to go about it. However, there are a few ways that should NOT be used. For instance, do NOT take a hammer or the handle of your ¾” bender and go to beating on the new drywall until you find it! This not only infuriates the GC and the drywall sub but will definitely land you with a large back charge to fix the damage. Along the same lines is cutting several holes in the drywall where you THINK it is. This would be for the same back charge reason or leave you with having to patch/paint the drywall yourself (and most of us electricians are not very good at fixing the damage, just creating it!).
The first thing that should be done is to do your detective work. Find out which receptacles/devices in the string ARE working and which are NOT working. This should narrow down your search and leave you with the last receptacle, the wire left before being buried and the next in line- so now you know where you should be searching roughly. If you have access to drawings, this will also help narrow things down a bit, so you aren’t looking everywhere. A low voltage toner can be used, but only if it’s a single layer of drywall. More than that and it won’t be able to sense through it. A toner works by hooking a tone generator to one end of the wire and using the receiver to find the other end. A borescope is also handy in this situation as it has a camera/light on a flexible lead that you can insert into the wall and actually SEE what is obstructing the installation. The only limit here is the length of the flexible end and the fact that you cannot traverse into the next stud bay.
So, once you narrow down where you THINK the box/wire is at (from the detective portion), the next step is to poke through the drywall with something super small to find the actual box. Take a piece of bare #12 solid wire (or strip the insulation off an insulated piece) and cut a sharp angle on one end. Poke through the drywall. If it goes in easily and about 3” deep, you know you have missed. Move horizontally about an inch and a half either left or right and try again. You are looking for it to have a little resistance but be a bit spongy. You can also listen for either a plastic sound (for residential installations) or a metallic clink (for commercial installations with metal boxes). Something to keep in mind is that boxes are generally mounted right next to the stud. This may help in locating the box.
Once you have found the box, insert your drywall saw into the drywall and make a small hole to peer in or place your finger in to feel the wires. When you are confident you have found it, cut horizontally until you reach both sides of the box. Repeat for the vertical portion of the cuts. You may have to use your drywall knife to trim the drywall a bit for your plaster ring if using metal boxes. Now, install your receptacle as normal!
We hope this has been helpful in understanding how you can find a buried receptacle and correct it. Is there a topic you would like to see discussed on Electrician U? Leave us a comment in the comments section and let us know. Please continue to follow Dustin Stelzer and Electrician U as we are constantly updating our content to assist our followers in becoming the best electricians that they can be.
#electrician #electrical #electricity #this #outlet #was #buried #how #do #you #find #receptacle
As a Superintendent, this is why I mark every receptacle on the ground with marking spray paint, and take pictures before drywall goes in. It's so much easier to be able to look on the ground and know right away if there's a covered receptacle.
I always take pictures before drywall. It’s easy, quick, costs nothing, and saves a lot trouble later on. Not just for electrical runs, but stud/blocking locations, pipes, etc.
How would this be up to code now? Wouldn't a covered up receptacle be considered similar to a junction box and both need to be accessible especially if its in series like this run?
@@hippo-potamus thats why this trick exists, for the enviable moment where the drywaller covers your box and you need to find it to install your devices.
And thats why you're a Superdependent🤛. Where are my change order signatures??!!!😢😂
@@hippo-potamus He is putting a receptacle in it, why would it be a buried junction
You can take a level and see where the wall puckers. I have found covered up boxes that way.
Same method we use as well. Not sure how well it does on multi layers of sheet rock but single layer works every time 👌
Don't forget to install a box extender. 😁 I often use a long stright edge like a 4' level to find a hump in the wall because the box pushes out the drywall.
Your other option is to make the sheetrockers find it considering they're the ones that didn't pay attention and covered it up!😅
I FOUND OUT THAT TRYING TO FIND THEM WITH A 3/4 BENDER MOTIVATES TRHEM AFTER THE SECOND ONE!!!
In this instance, are you back charging the drywallers and if so how much?
I have had some boxes hidden with drywall, but those have usually been easy to find. It starts to get tricky when your box is covered with tiles.
Good technique. Nicely explained.
Use a level or a scrap piece of something straight and flat like baseboard or 12" tile, etc, and go along the wall where you think the receptacle is. It will rock or pivot where the box holds the drywall out unevenly. Then poke youre wire through to check.
If it rocks all the way vertically up the wall it may be a stud. It should rock only at the height your boxes are at.
This is my technique 90 percent of the time because it works.
Same this was how I was taught as an apprentice
This is how I was taught as well.
2 pieces of sheet rock might make this less effective though?
@@jeremyallen1260 yes that's true, I've learned on a remodel this doesn't work very well. (But) if the box is set at the correct dept it should work!!
What about the mystery wall switch that doesn't appear to do anything but is hot. That's fun.
Using a piece of scrap wire is always my preferred way of locating covered up junction boxes. Someone taught me this method when I was an apprentice, and it has been so helpful over the years.
We use marking flags the wire is thinner and a bit stiffer to poke through the drywall
Love that idea with the wire I'm on a big apartment complex and I do all the things like that like moving boxes and finding them plus cut or damage repair so thanks
I've encountered this many times in new construction. I've slid a 4 foot level horizontally across the wall at the height of the outlets, usually it will teeder over the minor hump in the wall giving you a close location, also in Canada we mostly use metal boxes for residential and can be located easily with a strong magnet or most stud finders.
Never have used a metal box in 15 years besides the odd 1110nor easy box… in Canada.
@bradharris6603 Western Canada? I'm central, metal is most common here Iberville or Hubble, we use plastic/pvc mostly exterior or damp locations.
YUK!! You strip the wire after you put it in the box? lol
Very cool trick thank you for sharing
Great info. Thanks Justin.👍
Always use my rapi-drive screwdriver for this... in addition to what you are saying, I can use it to "feel" the length of the screwdriver distance away if I miss and end up outside the box (the bend in that screwdriver is perfect for this)
It's a common problem to have things accidentally drywalled over it seems. The house I'm in, it came with a roughed-in central vacuum system. But the basement oddly lacked an outlet. At the same time, the suction power seemed rather low. Discovered they drywalled over the roughed-in vacuum port. As the house was brand new we just had the drywaller go and open it up and then re-finish the wall (they were still building other houses nearby so warranty fixes were easy). As it was a rough-in, we had to finish it by hooking up the vacuum port, but they had to locate it and cut a hole.
Now I wonder how often it happens - how many people go through their lives without realizing that their house has rough-ins for more electrical outlets or other things because they got drywalled over and no one noticed. Tear down the walls, discover wiring for outlets that have been there for decades but no one noticed...
I would wanna think most of the electrical gets caught, like the video showed without a device or the wires being tied together your gonna lose the rest of the circuit from there, but i have found dead ends buried on hot checks and doing service work but only on newer homes.
When he pulled down on that loose drywall piece and it ripped down the wall! You saw it too!!!
Damn I usually use a my 24oz locating tool when they cover my boxes. 😂😂
and the drywallers use their 4" screws in reply..
@@throttlebottle5906 I get paid twice I don’t see the problem
@@fordsbetter3496 until you don't, nor the drywallers for causing damage by negligence. especially now days, lawyers love that kind.
@@throttlebottle5906 they sign my invoice if they want me to fix any damage so I get paid no matter what. I just finish a 288 unit complex and I document with pictures all the damage caused by the drywallers. They ended paying me 80k towards all the repairs. I don’t fix anything unless I get paid. I document everything.
Very good video - nice quality to the presentation - and your lessons are right on point! One item i was concerned about in this video was using a conductor to poke into the wall - isn't there a danger of hitting a live wire and getting zapped?? Is there something you could use that is non-conductive, perhaps a wooden skewer?
I'm going to guess that he turned the power off to those recps before he did the video.
You’re both on point here. The power should be turned off but what if there is another hot wire in the same area. For this it is wise to wear insulated gloves as an added precaution.
You get to use my favorite tool. It’s called the boot saw lol. Small drywall repair after
We use a level to find the high spot in the wall. A torpedo will do but a 2 or 4 foot level seems to work best. I like your idea though, def gonna try it.
I am a journeyman now. Thanks for your help, Dustin.
I usually use a 4 foot level and at the point where it rocks is the high point and where your box is.
Thank You thank You.!!!!🎉
I use the same trick, except with steel ceiling wire. A bit more stiff
A greenlee circuit tracer works great too
Scope is hard to control & aim, especially in long distance - do you have a good way ?
Usually to find a buried receptacle the you pretty much remember outlet placement a straight edge find the bulge the get sheet rock saw or screw drivers to hear the rattling of wires then take the saw to to cut the top then side as of the box the finish cutting out the box
The easiest thing to do is buy an olight baton 3. Shine the light down the wall from overtop of the box and look for the bump in the sheet rock (you'll see a shadow on the ground) before you go poking holes
Good idea.
But only when there is one layer of drywall. Or when your boxes are installed corectly
You should do a video on smoke detectors and nec/NFPA requirements!
try connecting only one of the toner wires to a hot or neutral wire(swap between both) leave the second wire unhooked laying on the floor or hanging as far as possible from the other one.
that will make the whole wire and any devices one big antenna, it can be fiddly and sensitive doing that. in case of it not being spliced at try the ground wire.
an underground wire locator can work also, just connect one lead and aim the pickup sensor around, again it's a fiddly process.
How do i find electrical wiring under my hardwood floors? The people that built the house had the wiring ran in 2 places but didn’t install the floor outlets in the living room. We want power recliners but cannot locate the wiring. I tried knocking on the floor looking for a hollow spot and tried a stud finder to see if the electrical icon would light up. Cannot find them!! Help please.
Seems like that sharp point could damage wires if in wrong locations
I use the good old rub my had agaithe wall then tiny Long flat.. had no clue there was cams now
THE SAME WAY I USE TO FIND IRRIGATION VALVES BURIED 4 FEET IN THE FREAKIN GROUND LOL!!! OR FIND THE MIDDLE OF THE CIRCUIT AND WORK TO WHERE IT HAS NO POWER. DOWNSTREAM OR UPSTREAM!!!
One time I was in a really old house house built in the 1940's and the one-bedroom had no outlets until I realize they were on the ceiling.
My question now (non electrician here), what if the client now doesn’t want a blank cover plate over a box leftover at that receptacle box left in that wall? I know it isn’t “to code” to make it a junction box and then just cover it back up with drywall. Would you have to open up the drywall between there and the next two closest receptacles and rewire between the two receptacle boxes to eliminate that now located & uncovered box? Or, is there another way to do this, in order to eliminate the receptacle box (& unwanted blank cover plate)?
Hang a picture over it. I suggest dogs playing poker.
Make it into a receptacle
You could use a junctionless splice kit if there's only 2 cables going into that box. These are frowned upon but they're code compliant and can be buried. I use them all the time and never had issues.
There was supposed to be a receptacle there. The rockers just covered it up.
swivel to probe with and level or flat board to find a bow in wall works 95% of the time.
8:48
" Even if i'm wrong, and do 10 or more tiny holes in the painted wall, it's ok because.... nobody will notice them..??!!
🤨😆😆😆
But let's say that this is a good method.. give yourself a break, and dont use a tiny piece of wire. Just use a "control screwdriver" .
About the same size as #14 bare wire, but it's sturdier.
Question. I have a switch up stairs and a switch downstairs. The switch upstairs works when you flip the switch but the downstairs only works to turn off the light. What’s wrong
That's a 3-way switch that's not wired properly at one or both ends.
Sounds like a 3 way that is wired incorrectly. Identify the common wire on both switches and connect what wire to the both screw on the switch and the other two are your traveler wires
I’m way too OCD, I get my multitool and make perfect little squares that I reuse.
Flash light or a level work to look for the bulge
Or use something such as an awl. Either way, you’re going to use some spackling compound!
are u trying to tell me i'm not the only electrician that the drywall guys cover their junction boxes?
I'm also an electrician who works in residential. We have that happen almost every time. Drywallers suck
The problem with a tone generator and wand is mostly the tone generator. If you can connect a more powerful signal, the wand can detect the wires from several feet away. A small amplifier from Amazon would do the trick. I work in low voltage, and drywallers will leave speaker wire buried most of the time. This trick has saved me an unbelievable amount of time, hassle, and drywall damage.
Or just connect the negative to a ground. Works wonders.
@@jefflove3049 I'm not sure how that would help. Could you elaborate?
@@kennanconner6588 It amplifies the signal of the tone generator. No need to buy an external amp. Source: I've been working in telecom for nearly 25 years.
@@jefflove3049 yeah, connecting one lead and letting the other dangle works pretty well too. nothing like having a broke wire and the whole patch panel screaming the tone out.
Finishing nails will leave a smaller practically unnoticeable pin hole
Someone forgot to strip those wires during rough in hehe
Quick fix when you know the thickness of the wall is not standard, is to use adjustable boxes or mudrings.
Drywall guys cover up my stuff I go back and find it with a hammer
I hope the circuit was not energised when you did that.
Why is the romex so long?
always leave extra....trim when attaching device
Well surely the plans will reflect where everything is, right? Right?
And the answer is, "sometimes."
a Good idea but you are hitting a live wire with a sharp point
Dustin, buddy, you need a better tracer. I invested in the Ideal SureTrace (I am not sponsored or affiliated with them in any way). It has a bit of a learning curve to use it, and has it's limitations, but I've been finding it absolutely clutch and a near daily use tool. Works a lot better than those cheaper toners, and has been saving me HOURS of time. It would have easily traced out that box behind the drywall. Ever play find the hidden GFCI? It works incredibly well for those.
If that is actually a sound wall, just spackling over holes will not act as a proper barrier to sound. Sound walls rely on two things, separation and mass. A true sound wall will have two separate stud walls with multiple layers of drywall with heavy insulation, and be separated by an air gap. One of the stud walls must have drywall on both sides. This gives you two layers of drywall, the first insulated stud wall, a layer of drywall, an air gap, the second insulated stud wall, and two layers of drywall. The construction of sound rooms is a specialty and requires much greater care than is taken for ordinary construction.
he's an electrician and thinks that 2 layers of 5/8" board is a soundproof wall. That double layer could also be for fire code.
HAMMER!!
Love the video, hate the annoying music. You know that we are mesmerized by your
melifidus tones.
Why is there music??
I prefer the hammer method 🔨 😂
8:35
😯🤨
I really hope you dont do your rough in like that...
I have never seen a professional electrician put the romex in a box without skinning the romex first and bonding the grounds in the box.
And dont tell me that its for extra protection of the wires in case the drywall guy hits them...
Strip the romex and push wires all the way back in the box.
in the mid 90's we fully spliced out everything leaving pigtails in every box, with wire nut on the hot(neutral too if GFCI circuit), then tested for any faults before the insulation and drywall went up. you could easily test again after drywall was hung to see if they obliterated your wiring, it happens. it's wise to paint mark the subfloor/concrete with all the locations too.
if it's some remodel, over finished floors use blue painters tape and hope they don't shred it up. now days you can whip out your phone and snap pics of everything/whole walls.
I would be SO pissed at my drywall guy. Normally, I am the only guy, so I would kick my own butt that night...
What if you just used ultra super magnet
OOps you didn't mention to make sure the power is off before you shove a bare sharp conductor into a live circuit. Use a KOLSOL Underground Wire Locator, Cable Tester F02 Pro for Locate Wires, Locate Control Wires Cables Pet Fence Wires, up to 3 Feet Deep 2000 Feet Length, Equiped with Rechargeable 1100mAh BatteryKOLSOL Underground Wire Locator, Cable Tester F02 Pro for Locate Wires, Locate Control Wires Cables Pet Fence Wires, up to 3 Feet Deep 2000 Feet Length
$54.99 Works great! much less danger. The tracer you showed is for telephone.
This is cute, my times money. Either whoever buried it can cut it out, or the super can. Or I’ll use my hammer. You choose
I was told you take a hammer and start bashing holes. At 18 inches off the ground
they are not always 18" high. Measure a few others in the house first. 14" - 16" was common years ago.
Ok you can bash your whole at what ever hight pleases you
Walabot
Who painted that orange wall…. It looks horrible.
I'm sorry, in the interest of my time being more expensive than the dummy sheet rocker that covered the box I am just cutting a hole on my measurement not wasting too much time.. Eff the dummy drywaller.
Doesn’t Klein make a tool for this?
Dunno about Klein, but there's the Walabot DIY 2. There was the Dewalt DCT418, but that appears to be discontinued. You can sometimes use a thermal imaging camera, but something like a wall box probably won't show up. There's a few companies that make radio frequency based devices (millimeter wave radar, etc) that can "see" through walls. Some are intended for tactical use (police, military, rescue), others are made for contractor type usage. Prices vary, of course. The Walabot DIY 2 seems pretty cost effective and gets good reviews.
why buy an expensive tool if you only come across this maybe two or three times in a career . plus he already pretty much knew where the other box was located.
Yes they make a wire tracer and I have one. I've used it multiple times out in the yards and it works very well.
@@kennylavay8492 mine was only like 200 something. But it has so many uses.
First.
My studfinder would have shown it.
If the wall wasn't painted or mudded, you could just unscrew a section of drywall and see it 100%
here is a question why would anyone cover up a out let box and hide it in the wall.
They didn’t pay attention, or Justin told them to do so he could make a video.
Speed kills
Good video, but very bad use of annoying music that detracts from the quality. Please stop the silly insertion of dumb music and just give us your narration and activities. The music only harms the video.
This video is a bit of a clusterf#@%
Too bad they hire cavemen nowadays to do drywall. Sad that this video has to exist. Thank you, Dustin
Looks staged. And makes no sense.
Lol you ever worked in a building thats been redone by a corprate landlord over 60+ years? There will be all kinds of crap, wires just cut and left in walls hot, hidden boxes, circuits traveling between units. all kinds of fun stuff like this.
@@kittensandmarmalade That's a new wall.
There are often times stupidity done during construction/remodeling that cause you to shake your head
Recently at one of the stores I do service work at we were replacing all fluorescent troffers with LED units. When we got into the stockroom ceiling we found old construction lights that had been left up there from a previous remodeling along with a number of capped off wiring bundles
@@kittensandmarmalade And if that had been the case here it would of been believable and actually showed the steps to finding an outlet or wire tracing problem. This was a new wall with a series run of wire just left there in between? Long 12 inces of 12/2 romex? Box facing the opposite wall? Totally staged and fake. Give me a brake.
How do you air seal that box so it’s not a sound conduction path through that wall?
Don't understand whats going on here. Why would anyone drywall a room before all the electical work has been done? Why would anyone drywall over an outlet? I had a wiring problem in my house once. I said, to hell with this bullshit and said Im going to tear off all the drywall and redo it from scratch and get it done right. Side note: wear those safety googles. At the end of the video you raised your wire holding hand to scratch your head. Don't want you poking an eye out.
See the movie A Christmas Story 1983
Look at the blue prints, no need to even watch this
You funny.
Use wireless outlet instead no need to even call electrician
16oz translator always works well
So this rock hangers problem that they had to pay you fix... the fuck outta here. Charge back the sheet rockers and let them eat shit because they suck.
Why does an electrician call an outlet a plug? Plug is male.
yeah, and outlet is any box where you can get power. He's about to install a receptacle, which is where you plug in.