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I am always impressed that you can just learn AND meet the people who make what you talk about. That’s something you can’t find anywhere else on RUclips!
All future armored vehicles need a anti drone/anti-tank missile/anti-RPG sensor system with quad copter side mounted tube launched quad copter or micro missiles that launch to intercept the incoming detected threats hitting the APC or tank or any vehicle the system is mounted on.. even transport trucks
That's what a machine spirit is, a really crude AI that manages key systems in whatever it is (So crude in fact that the mechanicum don't even recognize it as AI and instead believe there really is a spirit inside the machine)
The US Army being the ancestor of the Adeptus Mechanicus instead of some weird Musk-made experimental colony makes SO much sense lorewise with all of the bloated bureaucracy, resistance to changing the old ways, and the weird ritualistic superstitions no one can explain but everyone at the least shrugs to and respects 😂
@@azkrouzreimertz9784also, your comment translated by Google is exactly the same, which to me screams that RUclips algorithm is already at that basic machine spirit level haha
The rail requirement is due to many US Army bases being landlocked far from ports, so the heavy armor routinely has to be shipped by rail to ports, and often even loaded onto rails after arriving in country to get to their units. Also, weight limits allow for air transport in C-5/C-17 for rapid deployment situation.
Yeah but want that capability anyhow. Japan sacrificed most of their freight rail for passenger rail and it not only raised consumer prices but means they have to move armor one at a time over the road and suffer far more breakdowns, etc. It's become a national security issue they are aware of. And drivers who can still afford to own a car there are also aware every time they pay $100 in tolls to drive an hour outside Tokyo to help subsidize bullet trains. It's weird how things like that work out...
@jimmiller5600 Yes, I was stationed in Bremerhaven Germany from 90-95, and armor/vehicles/ordnance was shipped by rail to be loaded onto ships for Gulf War. Later, during Yugoslavian Civil War, rail was used to move same materials from Germany.
I was one of the technical writers for the GDLS proposal for the XM30. Glad to see all our hard work paid off and GDLS is one of the two companies awarded a contract for this. Phase 1 was to build a prototype...spend the millions of dollars to make one, and my suggestion (discarded of course) was that since GDLS was at 17 mile road in the Detroit area, drive it down Van Dyke Ave to TACOM and let it deliver our proposal docs! I said to paint it black and put labels all over it (e.g., 1500HP Engine, 50mm Cannon). They liked the idea but didn't do it. :-(
Of course. At least they said they liked it and then didnt do it. At my job it is always the same. Good ideas are ignored. Good idea fairy ideas are hailed as great. Really lame stuff is spot lighted.
I can see why they wouldn’t do it, but it would have been really, really, cool if they did. “GDLS SENDS TANK TO DROP OFF PAPERWORK” would be a hilarious headline.
The 55 ton limit is actually very important; it means that the XM30 has to START at 55 tons. It's inevitably going to receive upgrades and armor packages throughout its service life that'll bring the weight up, so it needs to have a reasonable starting weight.
the first thing that went through my mind when i heard that some engineer complained was "shit, imagine if the manufacturers that are part of the competition sent some little guy complain and pretend to be angry that pentagon officials and their standards and requirements are too strict and blah blah blah just to make their lives easier and reduce their research and development costs and be able to go the easy route and not have to worry about annoying things like weight and size limits!" that would be funny. the inspector general receiving the thing and being told by the pentagon to throw the complaint into the garbage because "goddamn it, that's the german's guy again, he's been breaking our balls since the beginning with his stories about how we are being unfair for not wanting our new infantry fighting vehicles to weigh as much as big ass tanks right from the beginning.. just ignore him" hahahah
@@occamraiser I think it's okay regarding what they are adding to this. 50mm is way bigger and heavier than a 25mm cannon and the ammo will add more weight as well. It needs to have thicker armor than current Bradley's. This will have drones that need to be deployed. These will have more tech than the Bradley's. Also 55 is the maximum, doesn't mean they can't be lower than that.
Yeah but it's not ideal. There's a reason almost every modern IFV design is trying hard to fit a larger cannon. The more explosives, technology, etc you can fit in a shell, the better.
But would not there be a scaling advantage? First the parts for a programmable fuse do not need to be bigger with with a bigger shell, so you got already more bang. Or you could bigger less expensive components. And you simply got the scaling of a bigger airburst. The bigger the bang the more interesting the air burst becomes. The most extreme example are nukes with most model were designed for airburst only. So how effective is 30mm air burst to begin with? The juice might simply be not worth the squeeze.
M2 Bradley still has done very well. Even when it was damaged in Ukraine with land mines the crews came out it alive and were able to repair most of the Bradley's that were damaged.
I think there is value in experimenting, however I can't but feel that a design such as the Lynx KF41 was mature and capable enough to be a valid off-the-shelf replacement for the Bradley. The same way I feel the 6mm ARC would have been an easier shift for the standard issue rifle. If they wanted battle rifles, then the switch to 6.5CM would have achieved a similar result. Perhaps the penetration value of the 6.8 will be critical in the future, but rechambering rifles comes at a fraction of the cost. The 6.8 looks to me like the ultimate SOF Gucci toy. Where up-gunning is desirable I think there is value in kitting special operators with the 6.8 for compatibility between rifle and their new MG. However the bulk of the arm forces can get around with 7.62 and NM338 just fine. The war in Ukraine shows WWII like level of attrition. 10 Leopard 2s are more useful than a few Panthers, with their silly drones.
@@willsk3122 "the crew" who struggles to get out because some moron thought it was a good idea to mount a hydraulic system for the back door's opening.Genius engineering right there.And it 's just ONE crew. Several dozens of Bradley's have been trashed since this all started and they rot in Ukrainian fields right now. There is footage of these things getting blown to hell by ATGM's and land mines all over telegram. I mean wtf hombre?
Working in the industry, I remember the VP of one of the programs telling me, "you need to design this to be idiot proof enough to be operated by an 18 year old kid, who might have a 22 year old kid supervising (officer)"
I think that it's important to understand that the 18-22 who will be using this vehicle grew up with iPads, Xbox, discord, etc, and making tech that can leverage that familiarity will increase performance and reduce training times.
A couple thoughts that were provoked by this video: 1. The using a laser rangefinder and then setting an optimal explosion for the XM30s new ammo reminds me of the OICW 2. It is not just RTS devs who are having trouble with good pathfinding
Yeah. People really need to realize that outside of simple commands and pattern recognition, AI at the moment is really, really stupid and it is far smarter than it was just a decade ago. Making AI not stupid is a hell of a challenge. Now that I am realizing just now that not even the DoD is able to solve stupid AI, I'm going to start apologizing to a few game developers lol
@@boydrobertson2362 ", AI at the moment is really, really stupid and it is far smarter than it was just a decade ago. " Thank goodness it is still really stupid; cause once it stops being completely stupid, it becomes far beyond dangerous. I always had trouble suspending my suspension of disbelief in the Terminator movies; cause realistically humanity wouldn't stand a chance, there would be no resistance movement as resistance would be beyond futile.
@@josephburchanowski4636 Yeah what we have right now is virtual intelligence. We really need to stop calling it AI as it really isn't intelligent, it's literally only intelligent on paper, or "virtually" intelligent. We are still a very long way away from Artificial Intelligence. In fact, I suspect we'll have a base on Mars, we will receive 50% of our power from fusion reactors, and we will have quantum computing before we have true artificial intelligence. Additionally, if there is any disruption in the rare earth metal supply chain or an invasion of Taiwan in the next 50-odd years, it's probably more than a century away. It's sort of like the advent of the fission bomb vs. the fusion bomb. The atom bomb was disruptive as hell and changed war forever, but it wasn't truly harnessing the power of the atom, but it felt like it. Then the hydrogen bomb happened and it almost destroyed us all and we got lucky a lot of times. Luckily, unlike with the hydrogen bomb, true AI is not tomorrow, so we may be able to realize the potential disruptiveness of it and regulate it globally before it happens, unlike the fusion bomb Realistically, Terminator isn't exactly the danger of true AI, It's more likely that a sentient AI with self-awareness and self-preservation instinct wouldn't have malicious intent, but it would also fight to survive, perhaps by causing chaos near its server location to prevent being shut down.
I was attached to an Army Cav unit. They were good to go. Those Bradley’s were incredible pieces of gear, and I’d take one over a ride in the back of an AAV anyday. That being said, riding in the back f’n sucks, no matter the vehicle. By the time the ramp drops, you’re disoriented af coming out into the light, if it’s daytime. They do need to do better in that regard. We were fortunate that the only threats to the Brads were rpg’s, and ied’s. I actually saw a Bradley blown in half south of Fallujah. Shout out to the 5/7 Cav. Those boys deserve the absolute best we can make.
There is no reason for a vehicle interior to be dark in the daytime. We use night vision-friendly lighting at night, so why not bright interior lights during the day? LED are cheap enough and low draw.
The railroad transportability is huge! Consider you need to send several ABCTs via sealift into Western Europe and then send them via rail to the front lines in Eastern Europe. Almost all of those routes have tunnels or bridges that restrict the cargo size. If it doesn’t fit you have to travel over the road which is a significant movement for an armored BCT. Basically this restriction is common sense for military planners.
Having massive freight capability not only keeps consumer prices of goods down but is a national security issue. Japan sacrificed most of their freight rail for passenger rail and it not only raised consumer prices but means they have to move armor one at a time over the road and suffer far more breakdowns, etc. It's become a national security issue they are aware of. And drivers who can still afford to own a car there are also aware every time they pay $100 in tolls to drive an hour outside Tokyo to help subsidize bullet trains
All true basically if you need a wider wagon then the distance of the trackside infrastructure has to increase between the track and trackside equipment.
As an average Hugaran infantry captain I'd say that I am so happy to see that most of the footage regarding the Lynx was shot in Hungary with our soliers. Also I might add that all the features that You've mentioned regarding the 50mm ammo is true for the Lynx's 30mm ammo and gun. Love your content as always!
@@stonefish1318 Victor may not be an ideal national leader, but neither are the socialist/Marxist Woke Western politicians. Thank god that Eastern European societies adhere to traditional values, and.. know the difference between a man and woman. Further, their cities are NOT divided into "go" and "no go" districts because people that were allowed to immigrate into them, couldn't assimilate into European culture. Ask Sweden and France how their immigration polices have worked out for them. By the way, I'm a Native American with a "toasted" complexion. So don't bother to try and use the old "racist" line on me.😏
Having fewer troops per vehicle is nice because each vehicle destroyed us fewer casualties but having more IFVs also translates to more fire support per squad which is actually a huge advantage.
Its not lowered it ENOUGH if the GD Ajax for the USA is the same Ajax that is over time, over budget and so full of problems like noise the British MoD is keen to save face and inflict it on the ARmy but the Army reckon its more or less a piece of 💩 which is so loud and uncomfortable crews will be rapidly exhausted by it leading to poor perfomance. You can join the dots & work out how poor perfomance is likely to play out on a battlefield - Its criminal negligence to inflict sub-par kit on fighting personnel The Civil Servants & Politicians pushing for it should be riding the first ones in the battle line.
@@babboon5764 It's like sometimes they get so far deep with so much $$$ spent that they figure they HAVE to finish it and use it knowing it's a piece of crap! That's why every manufacturer of anything military related must closely watch Putin's war and take and incorporate complete notes.
@@tedmoss That's the *immediate need* response. *PROPER planning should result in machines well fitted to their role* [The complete opposite to the UK's 💩 for brains & for ethics of Britains MoD & their 'who cares, they're just squaddies in them' attitude).
I’m not concerned by the limitations set on the manufacturers. For one simple reason. When we as humans are given unlimited choice we tend to stay well within the confines of what’s comfortable. When we have limitations put on us, we get extremely creative and suddenly new things that could never exist before become readily and easily accepted.
True. Goes for writers and world builders in movies, books, shows, and video games, when you are told to write a good story, it's incredibly difficult to get started. Just building a basic world to confine a story within makes it super easy. If I am told to keep a tank within a weight limit, I'm instantly looking at additive manufacture, new composite/material science technology, electric motor technology for lightweight ramp dropping and turret traversing, electric propulsion, and recoil tech that is compact and lightweight to reduce the weight needed to handle the 50 mike mike gun. Sometimes, limitations are too much, they asked for an autonomous vehicle, but the tech proved immature, so they "settled" for a reduced crew. Even in failure, it was a huge stride. Something tells me the engineer who was complaining in the report wasn't up to the challenge of actually innovating, some engineer. SpaceX is an example of what adding confines can do. Elon, after learning how this stuff works at Tesla, established a culture of the best part is no part, delete everything you can, and delete some more, keep deleting until you have to add things back. By being forced to constantly fine ways to delete parts, it forces innovation that has led to some cool outcomes. Wish the government took the test to failure and limitation for growth approach more often.
@@MaelPlaguecrow6942actually I’d argue it’s happening now in the industry at least the stagnation part. Microtransactions are like an infinite money printer, just make sure to increase the printer number every year. If you need a quick cash infusion just rerelease a 10+ year old game with no improvements to a modern console at modern prices.
@@boydrobertson2362 absolutely, the first time I heard the theory was from Zakk Wylde the guitarist for ozzy Osbourne when he did an interview with Nikki sixx. Basically he stated that when he goes into a studio and he can play any guitar and have any effect and any set up he wants. He gets stuck in his ways. But when you hand him a guitar and cut 5 strings off and tell him to write an album suddenly he’s doing funk and blues and metal and jazz because in order to not repeat himself he has to do so much more and there in lies reality. Boundaries and restrictions give us an envelope to push. Without them it’s just throw everything at it. Imagine what scientific breakthrough would occur if they told the scientists and engineers that they need this exact tank and exact capabilities and exact armour strength. But it has to be 40t not 55t they’d find a way and it’d change the world. But they’d be miserable doing it.
The drone support for ground fighting vehicles will be very important in the future. You can see it on the KF-51 Panther which has a special operator seat for drone operations inside.
@raifsevrence easier said than done, they tried doing that with an armored vehicles with a companion protection capability, it ultimately failed because it was too expensive and takes too long to manufacture. What you mentioned can be tuned into the KF-51s drones with proper programming and detection capabilities (better cameras, analysis, etc.) but ultimately it's cheaper to take a drone jockey who knows what to look for tell him what he is looking for and you got what you requested.
as important as drone support is, countering drones in an organic, effective, and economical way is just as important so giving the IFVs the ability to protect the force from drones is incredibly valuable.
@@raifsevrence Optionally manned drones that have the CV ability to detect and log vehicles/infantry it spots is also very usefull. We do this with big drones already since theres too much imagery to sift through manned means. Giving everybody an information jackpot is gonan be important in war.
The fight of tomorrow will not be the fight of today. Drones will *possibly* be important in any "future" (next year, or next decade?) conflict (depending on the cycle of introducing effective countermeasures), but (imho) it makes more sense to dedicate recon to recon units. Recon is finding a threat, interpreting its threat level, and deciding the best resource to use to negate that threat. Dumping that load on an IFV crew member (who may not have the correct resource to negate the threat) seems silly when your infantry squad is already down to 6 members.
The weight complaint misses the issue of air transportability. A C-17 can carry just one Abrams or 3 Bradleys. The current weight limit goes with the goal of fitting two XM30s in a C-17
Yes. But i have a bigger question - if the pacing threat is China with a conflict over Taiwan in mind how are any of these IFV relevant at all? would a C-17 really be able to fly to Taiwan 120km away from China's shores? If not, what's the point of some of these programs at all?
As we all know, NO armor survives a 155mm (or 152mm) direct hit. Mine resistance is good - it will at least force the enemy to stack mines to do more than bend the track. The size "complaint" could be height. Additive metal manufacturing = really long continuous welding. Keep the eM-SHORAD close! Oh; and keep up the good work.
Yeah, even landmines are a problem half the time. The point anymore isn't to survive these higher impact weapons, TOWs and Javelins (and eastern equivalents) alone are borderline unstoppable with armor tech. If we are talking about the survivability onion, the goal nowadays isn't don't be hit or don't be penetrated, anymore it's don't be killed or don't be shot at. People see incidents like the Bradleys destroyed in Ukraine and say "oh crap the Bradleys suck" but when you hear that most of the crews and infantrymen survived, you realize they are pretty good vehicles. Aircraft went through the same thing, you had the A-10 attack jet with the titanium bathtub meant to take bullets, now they have to worry about MANPADS knocking the engines and making it crash, so now America uses stand-off range missiles and stealth jets to avoid MANPADS and gunfire.
One of your most important comments was right at the end. The XM30 is aimed at a different foe. We are no longer focused on insurgencies in the Mid-East. Now we are looking at a peer, mechanized opponent in Europe or southeast asia. I'm getting flashbacks from my time as a tanker in Germany in the '80s. A different foe means a different Army with different equipment. One thing going for the XM30 that was not for the previous programs is we need this replacement for the Bradley now. when before we could kick the can down the street. We didn't need it right now.
They definitely need to adhere to the Railroad size limitations because that is also the basis for the size limitations of other transportation methods like trucks, ships and planes. If the vehicle does not adhere to them it will mean that any time you want to transport your IFVs you will either need new specialized vehicles and a wide load sign or you will need to drive the IFVs themselves which might make overseas deployments a little tricky, unless these things are amphibious.
I bet it was just a way to get the specific information. It wasn't a realistic complaint, but the info could have been censored if it wasn't relevant to the freedom of information request.
The railroad limitation also streamlines shipping of the vehicles. While railroads can and do handle high-wide shipments, there is restrictions as to *where* they can handle them, which is generally not a good idea logistically. This would typically add time and/or cost as you have to route things in a round about fashion.
The railroad fitment requirement shouldn't be ignored. This allows the vehicle to basically drive right from the rail head straight into combat. Having to remove and reinstall parts of the vehicle in order to transport it via rail will complicate and slow down deployment. Even more so if the items removed are not shipped with each vehicle.
@@grayman2749 Because the front line would never start to collapse after the train left to head there right? During WW2 the Germans were having to do exactly that. Far better to have the capability and not need it, then to need it and not have it. There's a reason the military has kept that standard all this time.
I bet it was just a way to get the specific information. It wasn't a realistic complaint, but the info could have been censored if it wasn't relevant to the freedom of information request.
I'm not sure why that's seen as a problem, necessarily. If you can drive a Bradley straight off the train into combat, great, but the XM is meant for missions Bradleys can't do. Comparing it just to Bradleys is apples-and-oranges.
@@michaelccozens The XM is meant to replace the Bradley while bringing additional capabilities. It is not an addition to the force slotted in between the Bradley and M1.
Imho, the Army shouldn’t budge on the rail transit requirement and should even lower its expectations of capability for logistical movement. The ability to fit within modern rail and shipping proved critical to US Army success in WW2 because we could move a substantial number of vehicles fairly easily. We don’t want to put ourselves in the position that the Wehrmacht found themselves in when transporting their own vehicles. It is better to have a lot of imperfect vehicles arrive on time and ready to go than too few and too late to make a difference. I was CAV and know the limitations of these vehicles well enough. I’d rather have a more guns and mobility than protection. The survivability onion is a thing and it is much better to be able to shoot first and achieve a kill than it is to be fully prepared to the worst case of being spotted first and hit. No amount of armor they could reasonably put on the omfv is going to stop the newest version of kornet, a tank round, or a bomb dropped from an aircraft. Unless those tracks are magically impervious to mines, trying to load an IFV with enough armor to “tank” a tank round or not throw a track from a bomb is a lost cause.
Counterpoint: we don't, and will never produce military vehicles at that scale of quantity ever again. If our military had that many tanks and armored vehicles, we could invade the entire planet singlehandedly
@@occamraiser The fewer more expensive vehicles model of Europe is a dumb concept. "Good enough," "maintainable/reliable," and sufficient numbers, should be at the forefront of giving the grunts anything. Having lag-times for deployment measured in decades rather than a few years is a dumb way of going about a rearmament. As an example, I can count on one hand the number of times my squadron's MAT-V's were up and running. We had enough trouble with our humvees being ready just due to the red-tape and lack of spare parts for everything in the Army. In any case, I don't want the US in the same position as the Germans circa WW2. The big cats were the shit in many aspects like armor and firepower... just like the OMFV. However, low production numbers, expense, lack of effective logistical constraints, lack of spare parts, and mechanical unreliability, meant that they were using these heavy panzers at battalion or company strength to take on regimental or even division-sized forces. For all the effectiveness of the 88, they still lost because if you don't have the numbers to cover what you need to cover, you own nothing on the battlefield. That's what the OMFV kind of reminds me of. They're not really looking at the big picture. It's sort of like the new battle rifle. They made that round and rifle based off of combat statistics in Afghanistan that they didn't read correctly. A rifle is not the real killer of an infantry squad. The M240 and SAW are. So why are they giving every grunt a heavier gun with less ammo when they won't be the primary casualty producing component of an infantry squad or cav section? Another RUclipsr, called Practical Accuracy, goes into great detail about it. He was a SF dude that went to Afghanistan a few times and breaks down how dumb a lot of the new concepts are.
Actually keeping the weight down to well below the weight of the Abrams could make some sense, if the Abrams is expected to be replaced within its lifetime. Any future Abrams replacement would surely be much lighter. It would be a bit awkward if, in a couple decades, the XM30 suddenly found that it was heavier than the MBT it was operating alongside.
@@bagelmaster2498 Having those systems integrated into the initial design is a lot more efficient than having them bolted on later. So a tank designed from scratch with all of the same systems as a modern Abrams will inevitably be much lighter than a modern Abrams (the baseline M1 Abrams didn't have most of those systems, and they've been bolted on since). There is also an imperitive to keep the weight of the baseline Abrams replacement down, since there is an assumption that it will gain as much weight as the Abrams has over its lifetime as new systems are bolted on. Last I heard the requirement (which may have been revised by now) was that a baseline Abrams replacement should not exceed 50 tons, so that it has room to potentially grow to up to 70 tons over its service life.
@@bagelmaster2498There are plenty ways to save weight. Unmanned turrets, already integrated systems so you don’t need to tack that shid on, lighter gun/breech, less ergonomics in the turret, etc. You likely won’t get 40 tons but 50-55 isn’t crazy.
@@BARelement actually let me correct my statement, I don’t think nato will have an mbt lighter than that for a bit bc I forgot Russia had tons like that, but you look at NATO mbts and you see their overall larger size due to the systems they are attempting to put in them. I think we could see a lighter mbt if they did a ground up redesign or just made a new chassis all together
Having a firm requirement for the vehicle to be built to an AAR spec is entirely reasonable. I’m all for giving engineers creative license to make the best weapons systems possible but there is a reason for maximum specs. It would be irrational to make a non-rail spec vehicle. That is a hard limit, no “we can fit a few millimeters here” and should stay that way.
Exactly. It doesn't matter how "good" your IFV is if it's impractical to transport on a mass scale. Honestly, most of this engineer's complaints seem to boil down to "I'm mad they didn't let me make the monster of my dreams, all because of boring reasons like 'logistics' and 'practicality.'"
@@the_mad_foolI was thinking the same thing. I would love to see this engineer take his 60 to 70 ton dream machine through the swamps in Ft. Stewart, GA. Like I did in the CAV. That be hilarious 😂 😂😂
And those dimension specs also impact transport on ship or air. And weight. It will be necessary to transport modestly easily. Weight length, height width constraints make logistics easier. Where would XM30 be based? How would it get to the next battle front?
Hitler's solution was to literally rebuild all the railroads to broad gauge tracks -- and he wanted even broader gauge: 9'10" to stretch from Paris to Berlin to Stalingrad and across the Bearing Straight into Alaska and across the USA (yes, really!). This is what the super heavy giant tanks were being designed for.
@@TristanMorrow Replacing hundreds of billions in rail infrastructure for an armored vehicle is a really dumb idea. That doesn't just affect warfighting, it affects every single company that uses rail. With ideas like that, it's no wonder Hitler expedited Germany's defeat.
Having a lighter (comparatively) vehicle would allow the XM30 to provide screening or flanking maneuvers via secondary bridges while the M1s cross on the primary bridge. Or would let them cross a smaller bridge and push out a bridgehead while the engineers get an M1 rated temporary bridge in place.
I think it's good that the army has set hard limits on the requirements. It will mean that adaptation will need to be made. Also like the adaptation of machine intel to sift through data for the human crew because that can be used in other aspects including science labs.
Your description of sand bags lining the floor brought me back to the M113 in RVN. We did exactly that, plus either removed of folded back the top doors to fight from an open vehicle.
Hi Cappy, Australia's new Redback IFV sourced from South Korea, mount's a 30mm with the programmable ammunition. Around 45 tons with very high protection and 8 dismounts. Originally, it was a face-off between the Lynx and Redback . The Lynx originally came in a 6 dismount version but was stretched to take 8 for the Australian requirements.
The footage of the Rhinemetall XM30 version here seems to include Aussie colours and at least one scene (around 12:26) looks like footage from the trials troop with eucalypts, etc. You can really see the stretched back deck on it there, too. Among the reasons we went with the redback were the issues we were having with the Boxer vehicle to date and the need for proprietary ammunition for the Lynx's gun.
The procurement process for replacing the M2 has been going on for so many years, so many cancelled projects, it's been like the procurement equivalent of having a tooth pulled out
10:45 there is a saying in the german armed forces "the one who fires first and hits more accurate wins the firefight". You're not just on to something here, you hit the spot.
@@mr.hedado741 you just scratched the surface there buddy. All the bundeswehr vehicles have animal names. Cougar, fox, badger, weasel, marten, wolf... one reason is to have a big pool of names and the other one the psychological impact of them on morale of the own troops and enemies.
@@UnfollowYourDreamsto be fair this tradition goes far back to the later days of WW2 with the Elefant, Panther, Tiger, etc. before the Bundeswehr was a thing. Also naming your vehicles after some wild animals instead of famous generals or people is undoubtedly less controversial for the local populace and other NATO allies (for obvious reason for Germany)
Those are sure important, but the most important feature a tank brings is firepower. Because if an armored vehicle doesn't bring some mighty impressive firepower to the battlefield (AKA the "Battle space") it's just an expensive target for the enemy. Which means the enormous effort and resources needed to transport and support the armored vehicle on the other side of the world, are for naught. So what almost always ends up happening is some level of armor protection and mobility must be sacrificed, and nobody has really found any way around this, yet.
@robertmaybeth3434 I would have thought for an IFV that mobility was more important than firepower. Not saying firepower doesn't need to be taken into consideration but it needs to be able to move and cover the Infantry. To that end mine protection is crucial either in a mine sweeper or survival basis.
I crewed a Leopard 1 with the Australian Army, and we had to take the sand skirts off the side, in order for them to be train transportable. Given that most armour and even many road vehicles are transported to the battlespace, by train, so as to not clock up needless track KM, that simply wear the vehicle out for no purpose. So, unless, there is a VERY good reason, the width of the vehicle is a hard limit that should not be exceeded. Having said this, the line has to be drawn somewhere, with respect to the weight. Previous vehicles have had very weak armour on the top, and the Ukrainian experience, has shown us that this simply is no longer a viable option.This new armour requirement will add many tons to any vehicle weight. Add on active defence systems, and suddenly. you've gone from the 40 ton Bradly, to a much heavier vehicle. I'd gladly go for the 50 mm cannon. However, we are getting into a world, where guns are slowly becoming obsolete. Missiles are the new black, so much to the point, where I think that we'll soon see specific drone vehicles. This vehicle would be a similar model, but designed to spit out drones, that can then be taken over and used by the vehicle's crew, or even automated, using forget and find technology, in which the drone automatically hunts, within a predetermined area, that the XM-30 is operating. Expecting a two man crew to also use drones, it silly. It has the same problem as two manned tanks, in the between wars years. It'll only add yet more confusion and pressure, to the vehicle's crew commander. Given that the Abrams is up for replacement, I would go with the weight that its tender specifies (better a weight range) and build a more survivable, but less heavy IFV.
TOTALLY agree with the splitting up of people more. Sure, more vehicles, but it takes more incoming projectiles/missiles to take it out. It should also reduce weight with reduced size which then maybe you can bolster the protection, but there's something to be said for the defensive capability to defeat the incoming either right next to the vehicle or some type of version of CIWS. Add to that, it's more barrels, more sensors, etc.....
it's kinda weird to think a lot of the design considerations and objectives for the project seem to have taken cues from innovation and development from the aviation sector. digital design, 3D print, weapons designed for long stand-off range. i don't know if we have the industrial ww2 output but being able to just print out vehicles like that sounds awesome, especially if we're deterring a toe-to-toe with china. but i am curious how that might affect parts and maintenance, if things will still be as interchangeable, patching up a hull rather than replacing it entirely. with how well maintenance goes for us NOW who knows when deadlined vehicles will be fixed, let alone replaced. but it might be sooner if its as simple as printing another one. Still, Bradleys have and probably will continue to look like giant metal coffins to me. My knees might not be happy but I'll jump out of a plane and die on my feet. i'm curious to hear the 2cents of mech infantry out there on this.
Great video, as usual. I was in the infantry when we went from a 12-man squad to a nine-man. "Army of Excellence" squad. Three of those guys were on a M-60 crew (gunner, loader and ammo bearer), two were grenadiers, two were automatic riflemen. There were still two team leaders and a squad leader. I am of the opinion that each fire team should be mounted in their own vehicle. It costs more, but the fire power and dispersion will complement lethality of the mechanized infantry squad.
@@davidgoodnow269 So better security? but Half the number of support armor or IFV's. They need better active protection from loitering munitions or drones like Trophy ADS, something like an automated GAU 19 or Dillon 134. The Aussies have a cardboard kamikaze drone that doesn't get picked up on radar. Some kind of Gatling gun with a shotgun cartridge might work or a laser system. Super scary place in near pair conflict.
@@kameronjones7139Drone Warfare may be the buzzword of the moment, but with good reason. The Ukraine war and the many manufacturers of drones around the world are diversifying their offerings, each bringing new and evolving capabilities, that gives these relatively inexpensive platforms capabilities that we had never though of and that we have yet to imagine, but change the battlefield in so many ways, from simple recon, to target elimination and so much more. Plus their impact is extremely cost-effective, when a 500k dollar drone can destroy a tank, that is extremely cost effective, or a 1000 dollar drone can accurately relay the movements of an entire army, that is ban for your buck and the US has been paying very close attention to the changing form of warfare as presented in Ukraine and want to be ready to deny these capabilities to their enemies when the war begins.
They first tried to cut crew size down to two in the early days of the old Future Combat System (FCS) so they could make even an MBT-type much smaller and lighter. Expected workload was deemed to be too high at the time. But with the recent significant advances in AI, this all now seems plausible. Combat vehicles may soon have the two-man crew of a helicopter or strike aircraft.
@@dominic6634 I imagine the two-man crew seated side by side in the hull, surrounded by touchscreens and assisted by AI, both with a steering wheel/yoke. With the advent of driverless tech and AI assistance, steering the vehicle doesn’t have to be a full-time job and the driver can take on a kind of assistant gunner role. Then there’s the gunner/commander who would also have back-up controls to drive. So, if one crewman is incapacitated, the surviving/able crewman could still operate the vehicle, with the AI maybe taking on the driving role in a get-outta-here situation. Or that lone crewman could prefer to drive and tell the AI to shoot. Not ideal but still a survivable situation for the lone crewman. As for maintenance, the vehicle crew should still know some but the freed up crew spots could be allocated to training more dedicated mechanics and sensor/AI technicians in the forward support unit.
Hi Capi, I love the xm913 50mm. I'm impressed by Lynx in weapons being seperate from crew. I realise Australian lynx was different but Im glad our country chose AS21 Redback over the lynx. The Aussie soldiers preferred the Redback for many reasons
I think the US Army is missing an opportunity tbh. With how drones are going to be a big thing, I’d have wanted to put a small fire control radar on the top. Retractable maybe? So that it could use the gun to engage crunchies or drones. 50mm airburst would be absolutely choice in blinding them before they can las you and drop Arty. But that’s just me. I think they’re worrying too much about the gun’s ability to engage BMPs and alike. It is why the US Army straps TOWs to Brads and will likely do the same with the XM30.
Plus, there are already well tested platforms (that could meet the current goals in the future) available for adoption and they would allow the US to begin upgrading its forces sooner. China isn't sitting idly by whilst issuing threats - they're procuring new armour at an extreme pace.
My guess is they want to use the 50mm and the Redback didn't have the internal space to be modified in a timely fashion for a big gun and unmanned turret. As for the CV-90, it is a legacy platform and they probably thought that it would reach a technical dead end sooner than either the Lynx or the Griffin III.@@aymonfoxc1442
"It helps to keep corruption levels down to just 'really high' levels instead of just 'insanely high' levels". 😂 the matter-of-fact delivery of that got me
Been hearing a lot about "digital engineering" in the news lately. The 3d modeling side isn't necessarily a new thing, which is kind of the explanation I think Cappy was giving here. What is becoming standard is Model Based Systems Engineering. Think of it like an interactive flow chart with details down to power requirements or cooling. If you change this component and the requirement goes up, the program will tell you it is incompatible with the relevant support system. You can simulate these systems too, to make sure that everything necessary is included. Many engineering companies are already on board with this, and I assume if someone isn't using it in the next 5 years, that company won't be around for long.
So parametric designing right? Personally I aint a fan of that. Its more work than worth to make every small part parametric. But im just a CS grad who does 3d printing on the side. The proffesionals prolly have differing opinions.
@@honkhonk8009 Model-Based Systems Engineering is composed of four pillars: Requirements, Behavior, Structure, and Parametrics. I am a Systems Engineer for one of the companies that were competing that was heavily focused on MBSE and it spans way beyond parametrics and simulation. There is also reusability since the USG is pushing for a common architecture. But the original commenter is right, if the company isn't investing in MBSE or at least setting up the infrastructure to support it in future programs - then the company is setting every program up for failure.
The problem is all of the original designs were able to be safely transported by rail even through tunnels, but the military picked a compliance standard which caused everyone to have to shave 4 inches on the sides which means adding additional cost by requiring siding to be easily removable and removed on every rail transport event. Removable armor is fine, but removing it in an upgrade shop is a lot different from trying to remove it and reapply it during mobilization. It should require as little modification as humanly possible to transport.
I’m not kidding literally just a few days ago I was imagining a ifv just like this but with higher troop capacity and then watched this video and realized that’s a real thing.
Into a Cold War? Brother we already in it! But seriously, great content! I’m no longer in the Army but these are important videos for current and future warfighters
I think that there needs to be three kinds of AFV: >air-mobile (meets the requirements for an airlift or airdrop, either is acceptable) >transportable (can be quickly deployed via cargo plane) >heavy-main line (can be transported only be rail and ship) the three classifications are there to provide solutions to the battle field, and sort of make up the "light, medium, and heavy," aspects of the fighting force, where Heavy is the mainline fighting force intended for direct contact with entrenched enemies, medium is for probable contact and as a stall hold solution for until a heavy "shock" force can emplace itself for a flanking manuever and light is for deep strike, secondary line of offense operations, and as a mobile task force to provide a response in force for counter attacks. such that light has the capacity but not the holding power, medium has better capacity and some holding power, and heavy has holding power and capacity but is slow in deployment. again >light mechinized infantry >medium mechinized infantry >heavy armor this almost make me think of mech warriors. in a parallel the MBT (M1A1) is very much a shock cavalry/shock infantry, the medium tank (M10 Booker) is like a heavy infantry, the IFV is like a medium infantry, the wheeled APC is like a light infantry, and the MRAP is a skirmisher, the AH-64 and A-10 are either siege-cavalry or light cavalry, the light howitzers are like missile troops/longbowmen and the heavy artillery/MLRS are siege-artillery. heavy infantry close with and destroy enemy forces, medium infantry are more aimed at holding the line, light infantry try to evade direct confrontation and create opportunities for attack by distracting enemy forces. skirmishers harass forces in-order to draw out vulnerable units into a position to be destroyed, and siege cavalry use siege grade weapons to destroy enemy forces or fortifications.
This is a very nice means to teach about mobile warfare/army structure, and i'd say it's already in place, do see the channel Battle Order. just a small difference though is that the M10 Booker is going to be deployed with the IFVs as it is an Assault Gun in doctrine like what the M1128 MGS is to the M1126 ICV/APC. in that its only role is to provide direct fire support alongside the IFVs, but not decisively confronting enemy attacks. so in a sense, an M2 Bradley IFV/M1126 APC paired with M10 Bookers, would be a Cavalry Scout for Screening, Flanking, and Reconnaissance. i think the Point of the M10 Booker is that in practicality it would reduce necessity for alot of MBTs on spread out area, concentrating them to key strategic locations, while keeping the Cavalry their AT Capabilities without MBTs.
@@nightshade4873 the US military has been looking at "dragoon" units for mechanized and amphibious landing craft. this is to give a good AT capability and direct fire support. I gave the example of infantry, because that is how the "L" shaped attack originated, which is a an extension of the really basic flanking maneuver that has been used as far back as Alexander or the assyerians. the definition of cavalry is really mixed and messed up because of the use of machines. the main battle tank is envisioned as being used very much as the line infantry of the 17th century, where they form a long line and move forward as an unstoppable wall of death. this is why their armor is so heavy, because they are intended to be able to take a lot of damage and shrug it off. the Bradley was adapted into the role of a traditional light tank, where it was used to flank conventional enemy armor forces. however because of the experience with unconventional forces, the Bradley became an over-watch unit as most weapons couldn't penetrate its armor and it could defeat any armor units that it did come across with its 25mm cannon. using the Iraq war as a precedent and the lessons learned, the Bradley was being pushed into over-watch positions against iraqi medium and light tanks. because of the flat terrain they were almost always exposed, and needed to stay on the move. when they did have cover (an embankment) they operated fine in this role. the TOW missile could penetrate the armor but the Bradley could not survive a direct fire from these tanks. the Bradley was not intended for this role because it was supposed to either flee or fire a TOW as suppressing fire for its retreating units. the Abrams was never intended for this role either, as it was assumed that CAS would remove anything dangerous that was not easily seen, and the Bradley and APCs could clean up using their infantry. the M10 fills the role of Anti armor that the Bradley was trying to fill and the Abrams was being used for. it was decided that form logistical reasons and many other things the M10 could serve these roles by being an AFV more than a Bradley and less than a M1A1. this is good because it means that transportation costs can be cut down but there is a minimal loss of effective fighting power. it would also use the 105mm cannon.
@fuge74 Like the other guy said, the M10 is not a tank destroyer or anything like that. It is an AFV with an assault gun, whose main job is to support infantry. Blowing up buildings and fortifications, and providing direct fire support for infantry. Just in case you didn't know that is also the role that MBT's fill most often. Yes Kuwait had a significant amount of AFV/tanks, vs other AFV/tanks, but that was a different war in a different time. ATGMs, mines, and drones are the things killing AFVs and tanks these days (at least in Ukraine). Armor on armor battles are rare, even in history, so much to the point that most of a tanks ammunition was high explosive. This is because, again, a tanks main role was (and still is) supporting infantry. Saying the M10 is going to be on overwatch for armored threats is just wrong. It will be lobbing high explosive at fortified targets. A drone will be on overwatch, spot the enemy tank, the M10 will back off or hold back until a ATGM takes out the enemy armor, then it will continue blowing up bunkers and buildings.
I served 21 years as a 19D Cavalry Scout. The xm30 of 56 tons is to heavy, their crazy to have IFV that heavy. The new M10 Booker medium lite Tank is only 42 tons. I've been a driver, Gunner, and Bradley Commander for most of my career, and was extremely satisfied with the 30 ton weight was manageable with the amount of fire power it brought to the battlefield.
The Namer is heavier than the Bradley, at 64 tons, but their design philosophy is different. They are adding Spike ATGMs and a light cannon as weapons rather than a heavy cannon. Also, it has a Trophy APS or Iron Fist, so there is a much greater focus on defense than what the US appears to be designing. If you aren't going to focus so much on defense, it might be a good idea to have multiple smaller systems (as you state, their vulnerability to weapons means that you may not want to risk all your soldiers in one vehicle).
very true I covered the Namer about a year ago its one of my favorite IFVs , Israel is really creative with how they created a main battle tank converted to a IFV
I am sure Rheinmetall will try to sell it's strikeshield aps with the whole package since they built it into the armor "bricks" (AMAP) anyway. It covers upwards too for a certain angle too, and the backside.
@Taskandpurpose not the first time either! You should look up the Nagmachon. The Israelis managed to fit 10 passengers and 2 crew into ancient Centurion tank hulls! Now that's mind-blowing considering their age, and for a tank notably long and thing proportionally.
In my opinion, Namer is specialized vehicle for Israel conditions. It is wonderfull vehicle, but closely focesed on what Israel needs. I can not imagine it used as IFV in places like Europe or Asia when it gets muddy and ground presure start beeing a thing. Similar its engine needs to produce more power -> more heat. Especialy on plane fields of Europe low thermal footprint is a good thing.
Here's my guess for a feature, with the programmable fuzes, you could program burst patterns. A 5 round burst where each detonates a little before the last for clearing trenches, etc. That would be cool as hell
Great show Cappy! A lot of really good info. As far as the "hard limits" on weight, my first thought is that if they can't build an IFV under 55 tons, then maybe they are over-building it? However, whatever the limits are, if it needs 1 or 2 extra tons to achieve a specific application, then it should not matter. That said, don't we have to transport these things in USAF planes? And THEY have limits! So, if we are already over the weight to carry 2 on a C-17, then it probably won't matter for a few tons, right?
Two things. The engineer seems like the type that sees anyone who disagrees as stupid peons. And you really break down this information well. Great work.
Engineers have a arrogance problem, and will absolutely disavow any responsibility for their project collapsing. They loathe consulting with the field techs with decades of experience that try to explain to the engineers why their design won’t work.
It could be that Or it could be they just wanted a look at the specs, and needed an excuse to have the freedom of information act apply. Maybe if the engineer had other complaints then those numbers wouldn't have been made available. So they made requests for information, even though it is obvious why some of the limitations were made (max width for railway transport as the prime example).
@@blackhawk7r221 No, we do not. We just ask direct questions, and it's part of our jobs. Too many people are too emotional and take it personally, getting defensive. Not everyone of course hates engineers, but the ones that do tend to be overly emotional types.
wow. excellent video. a truly massive amount of information. as an ops guy I enjoyed your quick note that logistics officers would enjoy commonality of chasis.
Back in 1981, my unit got stationed in Italy to test out the EM50 Urban Assault Vehicle. It looked like a Winnebago and a couple of guys took it out joy riding and ended up in Czechoslovakia. SGT Hulka was pissed. Long story. Would make a good movie.
I think as more advanced munitions are developed, an emphasis in armor to shift towards discretion and speed are more favorable than just stacking mass. There is also an idea floating around in the space sector about 3d printing ablative materials; combined with reactive layers, it might be possible to make armor more efficient in weight. Titanium alloys in track technology has been talked about for awhile as well, which would further reduce weight and prevent plastic deformation (allowing for faster, more reliable repairs).
I’m all for stand-off capabilities. Holding the enemy off at distance involves superior use of terrain and countering cyber, artillery, and air threats. Just hope that after getting all these high tech long range toys, our troops have commanders and strategic thinkers who plan for actually using those capability and not some of the current activity the military seems to be getting attention for.
Given the lethality and pervasiveness of drones and man portable anti armour weapons on the modern battlefield, active defence seems almost more important than armour. That 50 calibre gun seems like it will be very effective.
Active protection makes no point if the platform wouldn't be able to survive some most common battlefield projectiles: 23-mm ZU-23-2 (as it simply refuses to retire and is still literally everywhere) and 30mm BMP-2/Type86, the latter rumored to be equipped with APFS... of some sorts. Not to mention BMP-3/Type04, which adds 100mm HE to the equation (or even low-velocity AP/HEAT if need would be there, as it is semi-compatible with T-12 cannon...) So, at the very least, it should be able to survive a short burst of 30mm APDS or even APFS shots from at least somewhat reasonable distance *and* some reasonable protection from HE artillery shells falling nearby before active protection would make any difference to the survivability. U.....an conflict demonstrated that perfectly...
I believe a consideration for the weight needs to be kept in mind is the engineer mobility aspect. Having a lighter vehicle that can cross a combat engineer laid MGB bridge under fire would be a lot more useful than something that cant. I dont know, just talking as an Combat E
The HAEB-T's programmable airburst sounds very similar to the new 30mm and 35mm munitions that Rheinmetall uses in their Skynex and Skyguard AA systems. So, it is possible in smaller calibre as well. Edit: removed word to be grammatically correct
Hell, there have been experiments with small arms rounds with guidance systems in DARPA. It is less about tech and more about cost. The smaller the chip, the smaller the node size and the higher the cost. When you are making millions of rounds, a few dollars saved per round is huge.
I could see the 50mm gun getting repurposed for short range air defense too with the size of the shell being capable of fitting proximity fuses for shooting down drones and other low altitude threats.
The Rheinmetall/Raytheon KF 41 Lynx apparently is more modern and modular and has capacity for 8 infantrymen. However I guess since the General Dynamics M1 Tank is gonna be updated to a high tech new level, the most probable option is the G D....
Good video Cappy. Watched it last night night and have been mulling several questions about this weapon. I served in the Army during the '70's but was not in the Infantry. My main question is, why does every one of these vehicles need to have the 50mm gun? Granted it's a potent weapon, and would be very essential to the effectiveness of a mechanized infantry unit. But do you need this gun on every vehicle? Why not partner one of these vehicles with two or three other XM30's but without the big gun, just some sort of remotely controlled mini-gun for suppressive fire? That would reduce the weight/cost of most of the vehicles and allow you to increase the number of personnel in each. I hope my questions are making sense and maybe someone with mechanized infantry experience can tell me where I am wrong. Thanks.
A decent summary video. However, unlike so many on YT, you covered the essential trade-off on the IFV main gun - lethality vs. ammo capacity vs standardization. Once we moved from APC to IFV, crew compartment tradeoffs became highly constrained. We worked on part of this in the 90s with Case Telescoped Ammunition (CTA) to fit larger calibers into smaller volumes, but stopped after FCS PMO put contractors in charge of Army system requirements. And as far as the new fuzing technology - that began in the mid-late 90s when automotive ABS started to make rate sensors cheap and rugged. I might not have placed so much weight on one system engineer's complaints, especially one without the personal credibility to effectively disposition concerns without going to the "Press". As an aside, the Defense industry isn't the corrupt enterprise pictured in movies or on RUclips. After 35 years working on major weapons systems following my active duty, I can say the enterprise is populated by dedicated people working long hours in a highly structured and tightly regulated environment. Maybe your time working in the Defense industry or for DOD provided insights? I compliment you for developing a perspective from your relatively brief military experience in one domain, under conditions that no longer exist.
Whoa. It's cool seeing how regulations in one industry - requiring cars to have anti lock braking systems (ABS) - can have huge impacts on an entirely different realm, making twist rate sensors rugged and affordable enough to slap 'em into 50mm shells.
I agree with you about the defense industry being populated by dedicated patriots, but don't underestimate the power of corruption. We've seen entire egencies be completely corrupted by just a few key positions. Creating conflicts to launder money is rampant in this world we live in
@@Rono99Compared to the CV90 Mark IV?.. not really... & They should probably compare to a Mark V..🤔 Ukraine is going for a CV90 production line of it's own.. I bet the ones coming off that line will have very thought through upgrades, after using CV9040 C's in combat..
GCS common infrastructure architecture is something that should have been a priority decades again, and is one of the major downsides of putting stuff out to tender. This is why we can't just make a bunch of additional systems (like when we run low during a war...), because the development kit used to make them is now in a landfill somewhere, not to mention the Engineers now have switched jobs
I had a 3D part printed for a Hot Wheels car in steel and was shocked at how heavy the tiny piece was. To give you an idea, a pinewood derby car weight the same size as the part I had printed is about 3g, while my printed part is 11g. Stacking 3 weights would be more mass and still not as heavy as the part I had printed in steel. Print the tanks!
What material did you print with? I find this very relatable. I got a 5kg table from Ikea. Then I built a replica of it and wow, it came out as 18kg. WTF.
@@geraldfjord2383 I used a company called Shapeways, you may have heard of them? The only info I got was that is steel. I wish I knew more about the metal printing.
I wonder if the 55t weight limit has to do with airlift capability. 2 55t vehicles is 220,000lbs, max load on the C-17 is 300,000ish lbs. This allows the C-17 to carry 2 of them and still have a decent fuel load. As the C-17 was originally designed to carry 1 Abrams, 2 Bradleys or 3 Strykers.
@Rob_F8F Exactly right. And given that most countries don't fight overseas, it is reasonable to assume that on average US armor vehicles will be much lighter compared to most other countries. This stands in contrast to the claim made in 7:45.
The new Australian IFV Redback is 42t and has 8 dismounts. The vehicle will offer armour protection options from STANAG Levels 2 to 6 and will be equipped with an advanced active protection system (APS) that can defend incoming line-of-sight guided anti-tank missiles/projectiles. The Iron Fist APS equipped with integrated radars and electro-optics will enable the Redback to detect, classify, and counter several threats.
@@uku4171 Seeing the CV90 in Ukraine doing great work and almost standing out, I would like to see what a CV90-based next-generation system with American-level funding would look like at least. For one thing, CV90 already has a pretty damn big gun, so going to a 50mm may not be as difficult as far as recoil management is concerned. Let's just say there is a good reason why Ukraine is looking to manufacture CV90s inside Ukraine eventually.
The Swedish CV9040 and CV9035 with their 40mm or 35/50 cannon have had technology for a long time with programable ammunition able to hit inside trenches, drones or other flying objects... so good to hear the US are catching up in the technology... ;) The same for the CV90 mark III and IV open architecture using GPU and huge information crunching capability... this is not new... :)
Slight correction. The Super50 (XM913) that is planned to be installed on MMFV is not the same one that Rheinmetall has previously tested. Rheinmetall tested A true full length Supershot 50 gun with a 50x393mm ammo meanwhil the Super50 from Northrop is an upgraded version of 35mm Bushmaster III with a neck-up ammo 50x228mm which is why it retained the cartridge length. It's a similar upgrade from 30mm Mk44 S to Super40. It's basically a way for the Army to retain the Stowage kill of the 35mm cartridge meanwhile having a larger ammo. The MMFV is also already too heavy if it exceeds 50 tons especially if they are only looking at 6 dismounts and 2 crew members. The Lynx KF41 is maxed out at 50 tons with upgrades if I'm not mistaken. You also mentioned that the Army M1 Abrams is already too heavy but the Army already knows it and that's why they are looking at shedding weight for future variants. They should look at how South Korea, French and Japan utilized modular armore package and autoloaders to reduce weight (not to mention training a good loader takes time). Hanwha AS-21 just won against KF-41 in the Australian IFV program and I'm skeptical with them not picking the AS-21 to compete on the next step of the program.
6:27 Macgregor is determined to get his thinking out into the world. Regardless of what you think of him at present time, he did show us the future with his performance at NTC in 1993. Wikipedia describes his success there as: "The series of five battles usually end in four losses and a draw for the visiting units; his unit won three, lost one, and drew one. Macgregor's unit dispersed widely, took unconventional risks, and anticipated enemy movements." Dispersing is apparently key now.
Worked in Desert Storm and that NTC scenario but the Russians have shown though what they'd do in a conventional war in Europe: lay down highly dense minefields that would make dispersion very difficult.
@@VitoDepho let's not be fooled - no one in NATO or the USA will lead a ground attack with any armored vehicle without first securing at least 80% control in the air... it's very sweet to shake Iraqis who had at least two generations of old weapons, with combat experience and skills on paper in a desert that makes your goals more than easy... and we are talking about a completely different situation where you have forests, rivers, very populated locations and a motivated opponent who adapts...
Against Iran or North Korea or the Taliban, yes, but "first securing at least 80% control in the air" is not guaranteed against Russia or China in a conventional, non-world-ending nuclear war. That's what these heavily protected next-generation vehicles are for, first probably going to the US Army's newly-designed "penetration" divisions or whatever they're known now. Mutual access denial to the air is a real concern against so-called near-peer adversaries.
@@VitoDepho These heavily protected next-generation vehicles are actually illusory technically protected. Especially these days. The whole concept of these machines is electronics, optics, sensitive external architecture that can be disabled with a $2,000 drone. A well-aimed RPG, a heavy sniper... and that's it. You're blind. Nominally your crew is ok, so is the landing party, but you're useless. As the conflict in Ukraine showed, the actual battlefield survivability of such infantry vehicles is half to 2 hours. Then it's out of order. Damaged, in need of repair at the rear or destroyed. It's an infantry fighting vehicle, you can't defend it like a tank, a direct hit from an ATGM or a 152 mm shell and that's it. To some extent, the salvation would be in an APS system, but it will make the project even more expensive... the balance of price, weight, speed, protection and impact power is very difficult.
@diegosimeone A $2,000 drone can be shot down, especially now with forces aware of them. RPG gunners and snipers can be killed or blown up. Yes, the problem of minefields and artillery are real. That's why mine-clearing and counter-battery is important. The deployment of RWS in early Strykers and other vehicles only whet the appetite for remote weapon stations. Goes with thermal sensors and even small vehicle radar sets now. Nobody's gone, "oh no RPG gunners and snipers will take out the optics so let's not do it". All modern militaries have doubled, tripled down on RWS and soon remote turrets. These things will, of course, likely cost a ton. But these are for militaries like the US and advanced Western countries that can afford to acquire, operate, maintain, replace and upgrade them. Conscript armies that can't afford to do so need not apply, or wait for the cheap, less capable knock-offs.
I feel like that 50mm cannon is a big advance, especially its anti-drone capability. It's fire support capabilities to support the infantry is impressive too, 50mm is big enough to give quite good explosive capacity for fire support missions - 50mm light mortars used by Germany and Japan back in WW2 for example. So this has a full auto version of that with programmable rounds that can also shoot down drones. Nice.
The xm30/m10 booker need to work on the same hull, drive train, power pack, and as many common sensors and electronics, as possible. This drastically reduces price per unit, along with improving production rates to meet demands, and reduces the cost of creating new plants to build them, in quantity. In the field maintenance will be easier and reduces the tooth to tail T3 ratio for logistical efforts.
Wait, remember that the 30 ton Bradley is made of Aluminium with added steel armor plates! If you want to build a better protected future IFV, you will have to get rid of the Aluminium and go back to steel armor. This will get you to 55 tons easily, even if you stick to Bradley dimensions.
One thing that should also be mentioned when it comes to the cannon is that those larger calibers will also give it better anti-infantry ability via that massive increase in HE power.
What the complaint really shows is the major difference between the West and East. The complaint happened, was listened too, and did not cause someone to "fall" out of a window. Listening to dissent allows for a greater final result.
Don’t worry, at 9:56, you can clearly see that Kevin Fitzpatrick (he/him) is on the job. I’m sure he’s making all the accommodations for all genders and skin tones.
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I am always impressed that you can just learn AND meet the people who make what you talk about. That’s something you can’t find anywhere else on RUclips!
gang gang! Ice cream so good! RPG on the left side! Woo got me riding like a cowgirl!
You know when you make us only contests that most people cant particepate in you just ensure i wont buy your product
❤❤❤❤❤❤
All future armored vehicles need a anti drone/anti-tank missile/anti-RPG sensor system with quad copter side mounted tube launched quad copter or micro missiles that launch to intercept the incoming detected threats hitting the APC or tank or any vehicle the system is mounted on.. even transport trucks
Virtual crew-member sounds like the 21st century version of a 40K machine spirit😂
Imagine the last thing you hear being "Gang Gang" "Strong Woman!" "Ice Cream So Good!" As it fades to black.
That's what a machine spirit is, a really crude AI that manages key systems in whatever it is (So crude in fact that the mechanicum don't even recognize it as AI and instead believe there really is a spirit inside the machine)
The omnissiah aproves
The US Army being the ancestor of the Adeptus Mechanicus instead of some weird Musk-made experimental colony makes SO much sense lorewise with all of the bloated bureaucracy, resistance to changing the old ways, and the weird ritualistic superstitions no one can explain but everyone at the least shrugs to and respects 😂
@@azkrouzreimertz9784also, your comment translated by Google is exactly the same, which to me screams that RUclips algorithm is already at that basic machine spirit level haha
The rail requirement is due to many US Army bases being landlocked far from ports, so the heavy armor routinely has to be shipped by rail to ports, and often even loaded onto rails after arriving in country to get to their units. Also, weight limits allow for air transport in C-5/C-17 for rapid deployment situation.
Especially across Europe.
lmao. These are very basic and universal requirements for any slightly modern military in the world.
Yeah but want that capability anyhow. Japan sacrificed most of their freight rail for passenger rail and it not only raised consumer prices but means they have to move armor one at a time over the road and suffer far more breakdowns, etc. It's become a national security issue they are aware of. And drivers who can still afford to own a car there are also aware every time they pay $100 in tolls to drive an hour outside Tokyo to help subsidize bullet trains.
It's weird how things like that work out...
Its a long way from Fort Riley to any coast.
@jimmiller5600 Yes, I was stationed in Bremerhaven Germany from 90-95, and armor/vehicles/ordnance was shipped by rail to be loaded onto ships for Gulf War. Later, during Yugoslavian Civil War, rail was used to move same materials from Germany.
I was one of the technical writers for the GDLS proposal for the XM30. Glad to see all our hard work paid off and GDLS is one of the two companies awarded a contract for this. Phase 1 was to build a prototype...spend the millions of dollars to make one, and my suggestion (discarded of course) was that since GDLS was at 17 mile road in the Detroit area, drive it down Van Dyke Ave to TACOM and let it deliver our proposal docs! I said to paint it black and put labels all over it (e.g., 1500HP Engine, 50mm Cannon). They liked the idea but didn't do it. :-(
Of course. At least they said they liked it and then didnt do it. At my job it is always the same. Good ideas are ignored. Good idea fairy ideas are hailed as great. Really lame stuff is spot lighted.
Wasted potential... 😂
I can see why they wouldn’t do it, but it would have been really, really, cool if they did.
“GDLS SENDS TANK TO DROP OFF PAPERWORK” would be a hilarious headline.
So was I. Years back.
The 55 ton limit is actually very important; it means that the XM30 has to START at 55 tons. It's inevitably going to receive upgrades and armor packages throughout its service life that'll bring the weight up, so it needs to have a reasonable starting weight.
Sounds like you got olds experience
The kind you get with years of seeinh how the system works
Worked myself in engineering, and seen these examples
the first thing that went through my mind when i heard that some engineer complained was "shit, imagine if the manufacturers that are part of the competition sent some little guy complain and pretend to be angry that pentagon officials and their standards and requirements are too strict and blah blah blah just to make their lives easier and reduce their research and development costs and be able to go the easy route and not have to worry about annoying things like weight and size limits!"
that would be funny. the inspector general receiving the thing and being told by the pentagon to throw the complaint into the garbage because "goddamn it, that's the german's guy again, he's been breaking our balls since the beginning with his stories about how we are being unfair for not wanting our new infantry fighting vehicles to weigh as much as big ass tanks right from the beginning.. just ignore him"
hahahah
55 tons is NOT a reasonable starting weight for an IFV, when it is replacing a 40 ton IFV.
@@occamraiseraccording to your degree from the university of armchair engineering
@@occamraiser I think it's okay regarding what they are adding to this. 50mm is way bigger and heavier than a 25mm cannon and the ammo will add more weight as well. It needs to have thicker armor than current Bradley's. This will have drones that need to be deployed. These will have more tech than the Bradley's.
Also 55 is the maximum, doesn't mean they can't be lower than that.
14:05 You don't need a 50mm caliber to utilize programmable ammunition. It's available in 30mm also
How about a 40mm? Isn't a 40mm large enough?
how powerful is the APFSDS for such a gun? looking at research on Scaled APFSDS it could be 120-140mm rods resulting in 130-150mm penetration.
Yeah but it's not ideal. There's a reason almost every modern IFV design is trying hard to fit a larger cannon. The more explosives, technology, etc you can fit in a shell, the better.
Yes, but the 50mm does give you more room for error, especially against drones
But would not there be a scaling advantage? First the parts for a programmable fuse do not need to be bigger with with a bigger shell, so you got already more bang. Or you could bigger less expensive components.
And you simply got the scaling of a bigger airburst. The bigger the bang the more interesting the air burst becomes. The most extreme example are nukes with most model were designed for airburst only. So how effective is 30mm air burst to begin with? The juice might simply be not worth the squeeze.
M2 Bradley still has done very well. Even when it was damaged in Ukraine with land mines the crews came out it alive and were able to repair most of the Bradley's that were damaged.
I think there is value in experimenting, however I can't but feel that a design such as the Lynx KF41 was mature and capable enough to be a valid off-the-shelf replacement for the Bradley. The same way I feel the 6mm ARC would have been an easier shift for the standard issue rifle. If they wanted battle rifles, then the switch to 6.5CM would have achieved a similar result. Perhaps the penetration value of the 6.8 will be critical in the future, but rechambering rifles comes at a fraction of the cost. The 6.8 looks to me like the ultimate SOF Gucci toy. Where up-gunning is desirable I think there is value in kitting special operators with the 6.8 for compatibility between rifle and their new MG. However the bulk of the arm forces can get around with 7.62 and NM338 just fine. The war in Ukraine shows WWII like level of attrition. 10 Leopard 2s are more useful than a few Panthers, with their silly drones.
Ana even those 10 Leopards are ultimately just going to be rendered scrap metal by the Russians.
That is simply not true.
@@galoobigboiYou can literally watch a video where the crew gets out.
@@willsk3122 "the crew" who struggles to get out because some moron thought it was a good idea to mount a hydraulic system for the back door's opening.Genius engineering right there.And it 's just ONE crew. Several dozens of Bradley's have been trashed since this all started and they rot in Ukrainian fields right now. There is footage of these things getting blown to hell by ATGM's and land mines all over telegram. I mean wtf hombre?
Working in the industry, I remember the VP of one of the programs telling me, "you need to design this to be idiot proof enough to be operated by an 18 year old kid, who might have a 22 year old kid supervising (officer)"
Is that surprising?
That sounds like great advice.
Jesus H Christ on a cross, ain't that the sad, dark truth...
@@TheAmericanAmerican
Well they dont call them Infant-ry for nothing
I think that it's important to understand that the 18-22 who will be using this vehicle grew up with iPads, Xbox, discord, etc, and making tech that can leverage that familiarity will increase performance and reduce training times.
A couple thoughts that were provoked by this video:
1. The using a laser rangefinder and then setting an optimal explosion for the XM30s new ammo reminds me of the OICW
2. It is not just RTS devs who are having trouble with good pathfinding
Yeah. People really need to realize that outside of simple commands and pattern recognition, AI at the moment is really, really stupid and it is far smarter than it was just a decade ago. Making AI not stupid is a hell of a challenge. Now that I am realizing just now that not even the DoD is able to solve stupid AI, I'm going to start apologizing to a few game developers lol
SC1 flashbacks.
oh god, imagine going on convoy seeing one of them wander in the distance, Dragoon Pathfinding.
@@boydrobertson2362 ", AI at the moment is really, really stupid and it is far smarter than it was just a decade ago. "
Thank goodness it is still really stupid; cause once it stops being completely stupid, it becomes far beyond dangerous. I always had trouble suspending my suspension of disbelief in the Terminator movies; cause realistically humanity wouldn't stand a chance, there would be no resistance movement as resistance would be beyond futile.
@@josephburchanowski4636 Yeah what we have right now is virtual intelligence. We really need to stop calling it AI as it really isn't intelligent, it's literally only intelligent on paper, or "virtually" intelligent. We are still a very long way away from Artificial Intelligence. In fact, I suspect we'll have a base on Mars, we will receive 50% of our power from fusion reactors, and we will have quantum computing before we have true artificial intelligence. Additionally, if there is any disruption in the rare earth metal supply chain or an invasion of Taiwan in the next 50-odd years, it's probably more than a century away.
It's sort of like the advent of the fission bomb vs. the fusion bomb. The atom bomb was disruptive as hell and changed war forever, but it wasn't truly harnessing the power of the atom, but it felt like it. Then the hydrogen bomb happened and it almost destroyed us all and we got lucky a lot of times. Luckily, unlike with the hydrogen bomb, true AI is not tomorrow, so we may be able to realize the potential disruptiveness of it and regulate it globally before it happens, unlike the fusion bomb
Realistically, Terminator isn't exactly the danger of true AI, It's more likely that a sentient AI with self-awareness and self-preservation instinct wouldn't have malicious intent, but it would also fight to survive, perhaps by causing chaos near its server location to prevent being shut down.
I was attached to an Army Cav unit. They were good to go. Those Bradley’s were incredible pieces of gear, and I’d take one over a ride in the back of an AAV anyday. That being said, riding in the back f’n sucks, no matter the vehicle. By the time the ramp drops, you’re disoriented af coming out into the light, if it’s daytime. They do need to do better in that regard. We were fortunate that the only threats to the Brads were rpg’s, and ied’s. I actually saw a Bradley blown in half south of Fallujah. Shout out to the 5/7 Cav. Those boys deserve the absolute best we can make.
There is no reason for a vehicle interior to be dark in the daytime. We use night vision-friendly lighting at night, so why not bright interior lights during the day? LED are cheap enough and low draw.
The railroad transportability is huge! Consider you need to send several ABCTs via sealift into Western Europe and then send them via rail to the front lines in Eastern Europe. Almost all of those routes have tunnels or bridges that restrict the cargo size. If it doesn’t fit you have to travel over the road which is a significant movement for an armored BCT. Basically this restriction is common sense for military planners.
Having massive freight capability not only keeps consumer prices of goods down but is a national security issue. Japan sacrificed most of their freight rail for passenger rail and it not only raised consumer prices but means they have to move armor one at a time over the road and suffer far more breakdowns, etc. It's become a national security issue they are aware of. And drivers who can still afford to own a car there are also aware every time they pay $100 in tolls to drive an hour outside Tokyo to help subsidize bullet trains
All true basically if you need a wider wagon then the distance of the trackside infrastructure has to increase between the track and trackside equipment.
As an average Hugaran infantry captain I'd say that I am so happy to see that most of the footage regarding the Lynx was shot in Hungary with our soliers. Also I might add that all the features that You've mentioned regarding the 50mm ammo is true for the Lynx's 30mm ammo and gun. Love your content as always!
Soilers.. sounds like a descriptive name for children.
Love your Country! 💚❤️🤍 (only not Viktor😂✌🏼)
@@stonefish1318 Victor may not be an ideal national leader, but neither are the socialist/Marxist Woke Western politicians. Thank god that Eastern European societies adhere to traditional values, and.. know the difference between a man and woman. Further, their cities are NOT divided into "go" and "no go" districts because people that were allowed to immigrate into them, couldn't assimilate into European culture. Ask Sweden and France how their immigration polices have worked out for them. By the way, I'm a Native American with a "toasted" complexion. So don't bother to try and use the old "racist" line on me.😏
@@misterwirez7731 sorry, typo. I meant soldiers.
@@marktakacs1227 I know. No worries. ✌️
Having fewer troops per vehicle is nice because each vehicle destroyed us fewer casualties but having more IFVs also translates to more fire support per squad which is actually a huge advantage.
Makes sense. The US army should absolutely be trying to downsize the manpower requirements for its equipment
"This lowers corruption to a high level" love you chris! Keep up the good work for grunts like me 😂😂😂
Its not lowered it ENOUGH if the GD Ajax for the USA is the same Ajax that is over time, over budget and so full of problems like noise the British MoD is keen to save face and inflict it on the ARmy but the Army reckon its more or less a piece of 💩 which is so loud and uncomfortable crews will be rapidly exhausted by it leading to poor perfomance.
You can join the dots & work out how poor perfomance is likely to play out on a battlefield -
Its criminal negligence to inflict sub-par kit on fighting personnel
The Civil Servants & Politicians pushing for it should be riding the first ones in the battle line.
@@babboon5764 It's like sometimes they get so far deep with so much $$$ spent that they figure they HAVE to finish it and use it knowing it's a piece of crap! That's why every manufacturer of anything military related must closely watch Putin's war and take and incorporate complete notes.
@@babboon5764 You fight the war with what you have.
@@tedmoss That's the *immediate need* response.
*PROPER planning should result in machines well fitted to their role*
[The complete opposite to the UK's
💩 for brains & for ethics of Britains MoD & their 'who cares, they're just squaddies in them' attitude).
Its funny because it's true😂
I’m not concerned by the limitations set on the manufacturers. For one simple reason. When we as humans are given unlimited choice we tend to stay well within the confines of what’s comfortable. When we have limitations put on us, we get extremely creative and suddenly new things that could never exist before become readily and easily accepted.
If only that worked for the gaming industry.
True. Goes for writers and world builders in movies, books, shows, and video games, when you are told to write a good story, it's incredibly difficult to get started. Just building a basic world to confine a story within makes it super easy.
If I am told to keep a tank within a weight limit, I'm instantly looking at additive manufacture, new composite/material science technology, electric motor technology for lightweight ramp dropping and turret traversing, electric propulsion, and recoil tech that is compact and lightweight to reduce the weight needed to handle the 50 mike mike gun. Sometimes, limitations are too much, they asked for an autonomous vehicle, but the tech proved immature, so they "settled" for a reduced crew. Even in failure, it was a huge stride.
Something tells me the engineer who was complaining in the report wasn't up to the challenge of actually innovating, some engineer.
SpaceX is an example of what adding confines can do. Elon, after learning how this stuff works at Tesla, established a culture of the best part is no part, delete everything you can, and delete some more, keep deleting until you have to add things back. By being forced to constantly fine ways to delete parts, it forces innovation that has led to some cool outcomes. Wish the government took the test to failure and limitation for growth approach more often.
@@MaelPlaguecrow6942 stories and gameplay have become a lot more generic since the capabilities of computers became extremely high.
@@MaelPlaguecrow6942actually I’d argue it’s happening now in the industry at least the stagnation part. Microtransactions are like an infinite money printer, just make sure to increase the printer number every year. If you need a quick cash infusion just rerelease a 10+ year old game with no improvements to a modern console at modern prices.
@@boydrobertson2362 absolutely, the first time I heard the theory was from Zakk Wylde the guitarist for ozzy Osbourne when he did an interview with Nikki sixx. Basically he stated that when he goes into a studio and he can play any guitar and have any effect and any set up he wants. He gets stuck in his ways. But when you hand him a guitar and cut 5 strings off and tell him to write an album suddenly he’s doing funk and blues and metal and jazz because in order to not repeat himself he has to do so much more and there in lies reality. Boundaries and restrictions give us an envelope to push. Without them it’s just throw everything at it. Imagine what scientific breakthrough would occur if they told the scientists and engineers that they need this exact tank and exact capabilities and exact armour strength. But it has to be 40t not 55t they’d find a way and it’d change the world. But they’d be miserable doing it.
The drone support for ground fighting vehicles will be very important in the future. You can see it on the KF-51 Panther which has a special operator seat for drone operations inside.
@raifsevrence easier said than done, they tried doing that with an armored vehicles with a companion protection capability, it ultimately failed because it was too expensive and takes too long to manufacture. What you mentioned can be tuned into the KF-51s drones with proper programming and detection capabilities (better cameras, analysis, etc.) but ultimately it's cheaper to take a drone jockey who knows what to look for tell him what he is looking for and you got what you requested.
as important as drone support is, countering drones in an organic, effective, and economical way is just as important so giving the IFVs the ability to protect the force from drones is incredibly valuable.
@@raifsevrence Optionally manned drones that have the CV ability to detect and log vehicles/infantry it spots is also very usefull.
We do this with big drones already since theres too much imagery to sift through manned means.
Giving everybody an information jackpot is gonan be important in war.
KF-51 does not exist.
The fight of tomorrow will not be the fight of today. Drones will *possibly* be important in any "future" (next year, or next decade?) conflict (depending on the cycle of introducing effective countermeasures), but (imho) it makes more sense to dedicate recon to recon units. Recon is finding a threat, interpreting its threat level, and deciding the best resource to use to negate that threat. Dumping that load on an IFV crew member (who may not have the correct resource to negate the threat) seems silly when your infantry squad is already down to 6 members.
The weight complaint misses the issue of air transportability. A C-17 can carry just one Abrams or 3 Bradleys. The current weight limit goes with the goal of fitting two XM30s in a C-17
My quick googling showed max load capacity for C-17 is 77 tons, it couldn’t carry two 55 ton vehicles
@@Cyclone1024Incroyable.
C-5 is 127T. Maybe they envision a growth envelope to like 63 tons with applique etc.
Yes. But i have a bigger question - if the pacing threat is China with a conflict over Taiwan in mind how are any of these IFV relevant at all? would a C-17 really be able to fly to Taiwan 120km away from China's shores? If not, what's the point of some of these programs at all?
@@mcb4067 China isnt the only peer or near peer threat out there. There are multiple other countries
As we all know, NO armor survives a 155mm (or 152mm) direct hit. Mine resistance is good - it will at least force the enemy to stack mines to do more than bend the track. The size "complaint" could be height. Additive metal manufacturing = really long continuous welding. Keep the eM-SHORAD close! Oh; and keep up the good work.
Yeah, even landmines are a problem half the time. The point anymore isn't to survive these higher impact weapons, TOWs and Javelins (and eastern equivalents) alone are borderline unstoppable with armor tech. If we are talking about the survivability onion, the goal nowadays isn't don't be hit or don't be penetrated, anymore it's don't be killed or don't be shot at. People see incidents like the Bradleys destroyed in Ukraine and say "oh crap the Bradleys suck" but when you hear that most of the crews and infantrymen survived, you realize they are pretty good vehicles.
Aircraft went through the same thing, you had the A-10 attack jet with the titanium bathtub meant to take bullets, now they have to worry about MANPADS knocking the engines and making it crash, so now America uses stand-off range missiles and stealth jets to avoid MANPADS and gunfire.
One of your most important comments was right at the end. The XM30 is aimed at a different foe. We are no longer focused on insurgencies in the Mid-East. Now we are looking at a peer, mechanized opponent in Europe or southeast asia. I'm getting flashbacks from my time as a tanker in Germany in the '80s. A different foe means a different Army with different equipment. One thing going for the XM30 that was not for the previous programs is we need this replacement for the Bradley now. when before we could kick the can down the street. We didn't need it right now.
They definitely need to adhere to the Railroad size limitations because that is also the basis for the size limitations of other transportation methods like trucks, ships and planes. If the vehicle does not adhere to them it will mean that any time you want to transport your IFVs you will either need new specialized vehicles and a wide load sign or you will need to drive the IFVs themselves which might make overseas deployments a little tricky, unless these things are amphibious.
I bet it was just a way to get the specific information. It wasn't a realistic complaint, but the info could have been censored if it wasn't relevant to the freedom of information request.
The railroad limitation also streamlines shipping of the vehicles. While railroads can and do handle high-wide shipments, there is restrictions as to *where* they can handle them, which is generally not a good idea logistically. This would typically add time and/or cost as you have to route things in a round about fashion.
This is the BEST military channel for current information.
The railroad fitment requirement shouldn't be ignored. This allows the vehicle to basically drive right from the rail head straight into combat. Having to remove and reinstall parts of the vehicle in order to transport it via rail will complicate and slow down deployment. Even more so if the items removed are not shipped with each vehicle.
It's not going to go on a rail from deployment zone to a frontline, don't be silly.
@@grayman2749 Because the front line would never start to collapse after the train left to head there right?
During WW2 the Germans were having to do exactly that.
Far better to have the capability and not need it, then to need it and not have it.
There's a reason the military has kept that standard all this time.
I bet it was just a way to get the specific information. It wasn't a realistic complaint, but the info could have been censored if it wasn't relevant to the freedom of information request.
I'm not sure why that's seen as a problem, necessarily. If you can drive a Bradley straight off the train into combat, great, but the XM is meant for missions Bradleys can't do. Comparing it just to Bradleys is apples-and-oranges.
@@michaelccozens The XM is meant to replace the Bradley while bringing additional capabilities. It is not an addition to the force slotted in between the Bradley and M1.
Imho, the Army shouldn’t budge on the rail transit requirement and should even lower its expectations of capability for logistical movement. The ability to fit within modern rail and shipping proved critical to US Army success in WW2 because we could move a substantial number of vehicles fairly easily. We don’t want to put ourselves in the position that the Wehrmacht found themselves in when transporting their own vehicles. It is better to have a lot of imperfect vehicles arrive on time and ready to go than too few and too late to make a difference. I was CAV and know the limitations of these vehicles well enough. I’d rather have a more guns and mobility than protection. The survivability onion is a thing and it is much better to be able to shoot first and achieve a kill than it is to be fully prepared to the worst case of being spotted first and hit. No amount of armor they could reasonably put on the omfv is going to stop the newest version of kornet, a tank round, or a bomb dropped from an aircraft. Unless those tracks are magically impervious to mines, trying to load an IFV with enough armor to “tank” a tank round or not throw a track from a bomb is a lost cause.
If it can't be moved by rail, then it is borderline useless.
Counterpoint: we don't, and will never produce military vehicles at that scale of quantity ever again. If our military had that many tanks and armored vehicles, we could invade the entire planet singlehandedly
@@occamraiser and if they thought US rail was strict, wait until they meet Europe
It moves with the abrams! so it does not matter if it can rail or not because the abrams cannot.
@@occamraiser The fewer more expensive vehicles model of Europe is a dumb concept. "Good enough," "maintainable/reliable," and sufficient numbers, should be at the forefront of giving the grunts anything. Having lag-times for deployment measured in decades rather than a few years is a dumb way of going about a rearmament. As an example, I can count on one hand the number of times my squadron's MAT-V's were up and running. We had enough trouble with our humvees being ready just due to the red-tape and lack of spare parts for everything in the Army.
In any case, I don't want the US in the same position as the Germans circa WW2. The big cats were the shit in many aspects like armor and firepower... just like the OMFV. However, low production numbers, expense, lack of effective logistical constraints, lack of spare parts, and mechanical unreliability, meant that they were using these heavy panzers at battalion or company strength to take on regimental or even division-sized forces. For all the effectiveness of the 88, they still lost because if you don't have the numbers to cover what you need to cover, you own nothing on the battlefield. That's what the OMFV kind of reminds me of. They're not really looking at the big picture. It's sort of like the new battle rifle. They made that round and rifle based off of combat statistics in Afghanistan that they didn't read correctly. A rifle is not the real killer of an infantry squad. The M240 and SAW are. So why are they giving every grunt a heavier gun with less ammo when they won't be the primary casualty producing component of an infantry squad or cav section? Another RUclipsr, called Practical Accuracy, goes into great detail about it. He was a SF dude that went to Afghanistan a few times and breaks down how dumb a lot of the new concepts are.
Actually keeping the weight down to well below the weight of the Abrams could make some sense, if the Abrams is expected to be replaced within its lifetime. Any future Abrams replacement would surely be much lighter. It would be a bit awkward if, in a couple decades, the XM30 suddenly found that it was heavier than the MBT it was operating alongside.
I don’t think they’ll ever have a lighter mbt than 55 tons now with how many systems mbts will be fitted with
@@bagelmaster2498 Having those systems integrated into the initial design is a lot more efficient than having them bolted on later. So a tank designed from scratch with all of the same systems as a modern Abrams will inevitably be much lighter than a modern Abrams (the baseline M1 Abrams didn't have most of those systems, and they've been bolted on since). There is also an imperitive to keep the weight of the baseline Abrams replacement down, since there is an assumption that it will gain as much weight as the Abrams has over its lifetime as new systems are bolted on. Last I heard the requirement (which may have been revised by now) was that a baseline Abrams replacement should not exceed 50 tons, so that it has room to potentially grow to up to 70 tons over its service life.
@@bagelmaster2498There are plenty ways to save weight. Unmanned turrets, already integrated systems so you don’t need to tack that shid on, lighter gun/breech, less ergonomics in the turret, etc.
You likely won’t get 40 tons but 50-55 isn’t crazy.
@@BARelement actually let me correct my statement, I don’t think nato will have an mbt lighter than that for a bit bc I forgot Russia had tons like that, but you look at NATO mbts and you see their overall larger size due to the systems they are attempting to put in them. I think we could see a lighter mbt if they did a ground up redesign or just made a new chassis all together
Having a firm requirement for the vehicle to be built to an AAR spec is entirely reasonable. I’m all for giving engineers creative license to make the best weapons systems possible but there is a reason for maximum specs.
It would be irrational to make a non-rail spec vehicle. That is a hard limit, no “we can fit a few millimeters here” and should stay that way.
Exactly. It doesn't matter how "good" your IFV is if it's impractical to transport on a mass scale. Honestly, most of this engineer's complaints seem to boil down to "I'm mad they didn't let me make the monster of my dreams, all because of boring reasons like 'logistics' and 'practicality.'"
@@the_mad_foolI was thinking the same thing. I would love to see this engineer take his 60 to 70 ton dream machine through the swamps in Ft. Stewart, GA. Like I did in the CAV. That be hilarious 😂 😂😂
And those dimension specs also impact transport on ship or air. And weight. It will be necessary to transport modestly easily. Weight length, height width constraints make logistics easier. Where would XM30 be based? How would it get to the next battle front?
Hitler's solution was to literally rebuild all the railroads to broad gauge tracks -- and he wanted even broader gauge: 9'10" to stretch from Paris to Berlin to Stalingrad and across the Bearing Straight into Alaska and across the USA (yes, really!). This is what the super heavy giant tanks were being designed for.
@@TristanMorrow Replacing hundreds of billions in rail infrastructure for an armored vehicle is a really dumb idea. That doesn't just affect warfighting, it affects every single company that uses rail. With ideas like that, it's no wonder Hitler expedited Germany's defeat.
Having a lighter (comparatively) vehicle would allow the XM30 to provide screening or flanking maneuvers via secondary bridges while the M1s cross on the primary bridge. Or would let them cross a smaller bridge and push out a bridgehead while the engineers get an M1 rated temporary bridge in place.
😂
Proportional response,..excellent!..armor deflection angles emphasized, yes, a log train consideration. ..and down the long road we travel🥇
I think it's good that the army has set hard limits on the requirements. It will mean that adaptation will need to be made. Also like the adaptation of machine intel to sift through data for the human crew because that can be used in other aspects including science labs.
Cappie, I love your videos in general, but this is your element!
Cappie The Man of Regular Infantry, Wielder of Knives, Benefitee of Goat Gun and Wallets of Ridge, Simper of Tanks
Your description of sand bags lining the floor brought me back to the M113 in RVN. We did exactly that, plus either removed of folded back the top doors to fight from an open vehicle.
Hi Cappy, Australia's new Redback IFV sourced from South Korea, mount's a 30mm with the programmable ammunition. Around 45 tons with very high protection and 8 dismounts. Originally, it was a face-off between the Lynx and Redback . The Lynx originally came in a 6 dismount version but was stretched to take 8 for the Australian requirements.
The footage of the Rhinemetall XM30 version here seems to include Aussie colours and at least one scene (around 12:26) looks like footage from the trials troop with eucalypts, etc. You can really see the stretched back deck on it there, too. Among the reasons we went with the redback were the issues we were having with the Boxer vehicle to date and the need for proprietary ammunition for the Lynx's gun.
@@davidgoodnow269It was one of the contenders for OMFV but ultimately didn’t make the down selection.
Swedish cv90 also have programable 30mm ammo, and have had i for many years.
Sweden makes great weapons, but of course, I'm part Swedish! @@Louiswernerhansen
How much space does the cpu take up in the 30mm shell, as opposed to operative munition?
@3:49 "It help to keep corruption level down to just really high levels, instead of insanely high level" 🤣🤣🤣
The procurement process for replacing the M2 has been going on for so many years, so many cancelled projects, it's been like the procurement equivalent of having a tooth pulled out
10:45 there is a saying in the german armed forces "the one who fires first and hits more accurate wins the firefight". You're not just on to something here, you hit the spot.
That's super deep man, it reminds me of my high school's football teams saying "the one that scores the most points wins"
@@C_ntSlayer91 there are armies that practice "spray and pray". It's not meant to be deep, it's just the doctrine
Speaking of Germany, why do their armored vehicles are still being named after cats? Leopard 1 and 2, Panther kf/51, and now lynx
@@mr.hedado741 you just scratched the surface there buddy. All the bundeswehr vehicles have animal names. Cougar, fox, badger, weasel, marten, wolf... one reason is to have a big pool of names and the other one the psychological impact of them on morale of the own troops and enemies.
@@UnfollowYourDreamsto be fair this tradition goes far back to the later days of WW2 with the Elefant, Panther, Tiger, etc. before the Bundeswehr was a thing. Also naming your vehicles after some wild animals instead of famous generals or people is undoubtedly less controversial for the local populace and other NATO allies (for obvious reason for Germany)
The most important features for any Armored vehicles are 1. Drone defense and 2. Mine resistance.
I think you mean 1. Red Arrow and 2. Red Circle
Those are sure important, but the most important feature a tank brings is firepower. Because if an armored vehicle doesn't bring some mighty impressive firepower to the battlefield (AKA the "Battle space") it's just an expensive target for the enemy. Which means the enormous effort and resources needed to transport and support the armored vehicle on the other side of the world, are for naught. So what almost always ends up happening is some level of armor protection and mobility must be sacrificed, and nobody has really found any way around this, yet.
Cupholders
@robertmaybeth3434 I would have thought for an IFV that mobility was more important than firepower. Not saying firepower doesn't need to be taken into consideration but it needs to be able to move and cover the Infantry. To that end mine protection is crucial either in a mine sweeper or survival basis.
@@TheDisgruntledImperial them too, plus I hear the sound system's Delco-Bose and a real banger as well
I crewed a Leopard 1 with the Australian Army, and we had to take the sand skirts off the side, in order for them to be train transportable.
Given that most armour and even many road vehicles are transported to the battlespace, by train, so as to not clock up needless track KM, that simply wear the vehicle out for no purpose.
So, unless, there is a VERY good reason, the width of the vehicle is a hard limit that should not be exceeded.
Having said this, the line has to be drawn somewhere, with respect to the weight. Previous vehicles have had very weak armour on the top, and the Ukrainian experience, has shown us that this simply is no longer a viable option.This new armour requirement will add many tons to any vehicle weight. Add on active defence systems, and suddenly. you've gone from the 40 ton Bradly, to a much heavier vehicle. I'd gladly go for the 50 mm cannon.
However, we are getting into a world, where guns are slowly becoming obsolete. Missiles are the new black, so much to the point, where I think that we'll soon see specific drone vehicles. This vehicle would be a similar model, but designed to spit out drones, that can then be taken over and used by the vehicle's crew, or even automated, using forget and find technology, in which the drone automatically hunts, within a predetermined area, that the XM-30 is operating. Expecting a two man crew to also use drones, it silly. It has the same problem as two manned tanks, in the between wars years. It'll only add yet more confusion and pressure, to the vehicle's crew commander.
Given that the Abrams is up for replacement, I would go with the weight that its tender specifies (better a weight range) and build a more survivable, but less heavy IFV.
TOTALLY agree with the splitting up of people more. Sure, more vehicles, but it takes more incoming projectiles/missiles to take it out. It should also reduce weight with reduced size which then maybe you can bolster the protection, but there's something to be said for the defensive capability to defeat the incoming either right next to the vehicle or some type of version of CIWS.
Add to that, it's more barrels, more sensors, etc.....
it's kinda weird to think a lot of the design considerations and objectives for the project seem to have taken cues from innovation and development from the aviation sector. digital design, 3D print, weapons designed for long stand-off range. i don't know if we have the industrial ww2 output but being able to just print out vehicles like that sounds awesome, especially if we're deterring a toe-to-toe with china. but i am curious how that might affect parts and maintenance, if things will still be as interchangeable, patching up a hull rather than replacing it entirely. with how well maintenance goes for us NOW who knows when deadlined vehicles will be fixed, let alone replaced. but it might be sooner if its as simple as printing another one.
Still, Bradleys have and probably will continue to look like giant metal coffins to me. My knees might not be happy but I'll jump out of a plane and die on my feet.
i'm curious to hear the 2cents of mech infantry out there on this.
Great video, as usual. I was in the infantry when we went from a 12-man squad to a nine-man. "Army of Excellence" squad. Three of those guys were on a M-60 crew (gunner, loader and ammo bearer), two were grenadiers, two were automatic riflemen. There were still two team leaders and a squad leader. I am of the opinion that each fire team should be mounted in their own vehicle. It costs more, but the fire power and dispersion will complement lethality of the mechanized infantry squad.
@@davidgoodnow269 So better security? but Half the number of support armor or IFV's. They need better active protection from loitering munitions or drones like Trophy ADS, something like an automated GAU 19 or Dillon 134.
The Aussies have a cardboard kamikaze drone that doesn't get picked up on radar. Some kind of Gatling gun with a shotgun cartridge might work or a laser system.
Super scary place in near pair conflict.
@@knowahnosenothing4862
What about electronic warfare?
only issue is if a lfv is hit then the whole squad is lost
The XM913 50 mm cannon also has very good elevation for engaging aircraft and drones.
Yes that's true airburst of 50mm would be deveastating against drone swarms.
much needed!!!!!
Yeah, I hope the AI or machine spirit can detect incoming drones as humans may not always be ready for such attacks.
That would also help explain the need for greater range and larger airbusts capacity
@@kameronjones7139Drone Warfare may be the buzzword of the moment, but with good reason.
The Ukraine war and the many manufacturers of drones around the world are diversifying their offerings, each bringing new and evolving capabilities, that gives these relatively inexpensive platforms capabilities that we had never though of and that we have yet to imagine, but change the battlefield in so many ways, from simple recon, to target elimination and so much more.
Plus their impact is extremely cost-effective, when a 500k dollar drone can destroy a tank, that is extremely cost effective, or a 1000 dollar drone can accurately relay the movements of an entire army, that is ban for your buck and the US has been paying very close attention to the changing form of warfare as presented in Ukraine and want to be ready to deny these capabilities to their enemies when the war begins.
That virtual crew member was amazing I almost thought it was a real person if not for the magic mustache and hat that appeared out of nowhere.
They first tried to cut crew size down to two in the early days of the old Future Combat System (FCS) so they could make even an MBT-type much smaller and lighter. Expected workload was deemed to be too high at the time. But with the recent significant advances in AI, this all now seems plausible. Combat vehicles may soon have the two-man crew of a helicopter or strike aircraft.
In theory, that's great! even a good idea for a smaller system. but what about maintenance and casualty replacement for the crew.
@@dominic6634 I imagine the two-man crew seated side by side in the hull, surrounded by touchscreens and assisted by AI, both with a steering wheel/yoke. With the advent of driverless tech and AI assistance, steering the vehicle doesn’t have to be a full-time job and the driver can take on a kind of assistant gunner role. Then there’s the gunner/commander who would also have back-up controls to drive.
So, if one crewman is incapacitated, the surviving/able crewman could still operate the vehicle, with the AI maybe taking on the driving role in a get-outta-here situation. Or that lone crewman could prefer to drive and tell the AI to shoot. Not ideal but still a survivable situation for the lone crewman.
As for maintenance, the vehicle crew should still know some but the freed up crew spots could be allocated to training more dedicated mechanics and sensor/AI technicians in the forward support unit.
Hi Capi, I love the xm913 50mm. I'm impressed by Lynx in weapons being seperate from crew. I realise Australian lynx was different but Im glad our country chose AS21 Redback over the lynx. The Aussie soldiers preferred the Redback for many reasons
I think the US Army is missing an opportunity tbh. With how drones are going to be a big thing, I’d have wanted to put a small fire control radar on the top. Retractable maybe? So that it could use the gun to engage crunchies or drones. 50mm airburst would be absolutely choice in blinding them before they can las you and drop Arty. But that’s just me. I think they’re worrying too much about the gun’s ability to engage BMPs and alike. It is why the US Army straps TOWs to Brads and will likely do the same with the XM30.
Plus, there are already well tested platforms (that could meet the current goals in the future) available for adoption and they would allow the US to begin upgrading its forces sooner. China isn't sitting idly by whilst issuing threats - they're procuring new armour at an extreme pace.
@@uku4171 I wonder what their reasoning was?
I'm inclined to suspect politics and existing relationships played a role.
Lynx made soldiers sick due to some kind of frequency within the vehicle, I bet the POMs go for this.@@aymonfoxc1442
My guess is they want to use the 50mm and the Redback didn't have the internal space to be modified in a timely fashion for a big gun and unmanned turret. As for the CV-90, it is a legacy platform and they probably thought that it would reach a technical dead end sooner than either the Lynx or the Griffin III.@@aymonfoxc1442
21:42 I like how you said "harder to detect" there.
"It helps to keep corruption levels down to just 'really high' levels instead of just 'insanely high' levels". 😂 the matter-of-fact delivery of that got me
this comment killed me😂
Been hearing a lot about "digital engineering" in the news lately.
The 3d modeling side isn't necessarily a new thing, which is kind of the explanation I think Cappy was giving here. What is becoming standard is Model Based Systems Engineering. Think of it like an interactive flow chart with details down to power requirements or cooling. If you change this component and the requirement goes up, the program will tell you it is incompatible with the relevant support system. You can simulate these systems too, to make sure that everything necessary is included. Many engineering companies are already on board with this, and I assume if someone isn't using it in the next 5 years, that company won't be around for long.
So parametric designing right?
Personally I aint a fan of that. Its more work than worth to make every small part parametric.
But im just a CS grad who does 3d printing on the side. The proffesionals prolly have differing opinions.
@@honkhonk8009 Model-Based Systems Engineering is composed of four pillars: Requirements, Behavior, Structure, and Parametrics. I am a Systems Engineer for one of the companies that were competing that was heavily focused on MBSE and it spans way beyond parametrics and simulation. There is also reusability since the USG is pushing for a common architecture.
But the original commenter is right, if the company isn't investing in MBSE or at least setting up the infrastructure to support it in future programs - then the company is setting every program up for failure.
As far as the AAR width requirements, soldiers win battles, logistics win wars and there’s no better logistics on land than railroads
The problem is all of the original designs were able to be safely transported by rail even through tunnels, but the military picked a compliance standard which caused everyone to have to shave 4 inches on the sides which means adding additional cost by requiring siding to be easily removable and removed on every rail transport event. Removable armor is fine, but removing it in an upgrade shop is a lot different from trying to remove it and reapply it during mobilization. It should require as little modification as humanly possible to transport.
what's the difference in percentage of rail lines that are able to carry it though?
I’m not kidding literally just a few days ago I was imagining a ifv just like this but with higher troop capacity and then watched this video and realized that’s a real thing.
Into a Cold War? Brother we already in it!
But seriously, great content! I’m no longer in the Army but these are important videos for current and future warfighters
I think that there needs to be three kinds of AFV:
>air-mobile (meets the requirements for an airlift or airdrop, either is acceptable)
>transportable (can be quickly deployed via cargo plane)
>heavy-main line (can be transported only be rail and ship)
the three classifications are there to provide solutions to the battle field, and sort of make up the "light, medium, and heavy," aspects of the fighting force, where Heavy is the mainline fighting force intended for direct contact with entrenched enemies, medium is for probable contact and as a stall hold solution for until a heavy "shock" force can emplace itself for a flanking manuever and light is for deep strike, secondary line of offense operations, and as a mobile task force to provide a response in force for counter attacks. such that light has the capacity but not the holding power, medium has better capacity and some holding power, and heavy has holding power and capacity but is slow in deployment.
again
>light mechinized infantry
>medium mechinized infantry
>heavy armor
this almost make me think of mech warriors.
in a parallel the MBT (M1A1) is very much a shock cavalry/shock infantry, the medium tank (M10 Booker) is like a heavy infantry, the IFV is like a medium infantry, the wheeled APC is like a light infantry, and the MRAP is a skirmisher, the AH-64 and A-10 are either siege-cavalry or light cavalry, the light howitzers are like missile troops/longbowmen and the heavy artillery/MLRS are siege-artillery.
heavy infantry close with and destroy enemy forces, medium infantry are more aimed at holding the line, light infantry try to evade direct confrontation and create opportunities for attack by distracting enemy forces. skirmishers harass forces in-order to draw out vulnerable units into a position to be destroyed, and siege cavalry use siege grade weapons to destroy enemy forces or fortifications.
But ma amphibious
This is a very nice means to teach about mobile warfare/army structure, and i'd say it's already in place, do see the channel Battle Order.
just a small difference though is that the M10 Booker is going to be deployed with the IFVs as it is an Assault Gun in doctrine like what the M1128 MGS is to the M1126 ICV/APC.
in that its only role is to provide direct fire support alongside the IFVs, but not decisively confronting enemy attacks.
so in a sense, an M2 Bradley IFV/M1126 APC paired with M10 Bookers, would be a Cavalry Scout for Screening, Flanking, and Reconnaissance.
i think the Point of the M10 Booker is that in practicality it would reduce necessity for alot of MBTs on spread out area, concentrating them to key strategic locations, while keeping the Cavalry their AT Capabilities without MBTs.
@@jeneric989 true amphibious has mostly been proven to be near improbable, it is better to either ford the river or use floats.
@@nightshade4873 the US military has been looking at "dragoon" units for mechanized and amphibious landing craft. this is to give a good AT capability and direct fire support.
I gave the example of infantry, because that is how the "L" shaped attack originated, which is a an extension of the really basic flanking maneuver that has been used as far back as Alexander or the assyerians.
the definition of cavalry is really mixed and messed up because of the use of machines. the main battle tank is envisioned as being used very much as the line infantry of the 17th century, where they form a long line and move forward as an unstoppable wall of death. this is why their armor is so heavy, because they are intended to be able to take a lot of damage and shrug it off.
the Bradley was adapted into the role of a traditional light tank, where it was used to flank conventional enemy armor forces. however because of the experience with unconventional forces, the Bradley became an over-watch unit as most weapons couldn't penetrate its armor and it could defeat any armor units that it did come across with its 25mm cannon.
using the Iraq war as a precedent and the lessons learned, the Bradley was being pushed into over-watch positions against iraqi medium and light tanks. because of the flat terrain they were almost always exposed, and needed to stay on the move. when they did have cover (an embankment) they operated fine in this role. the TOW missile could penetrate the armor but the Bradley could not survive a direct fire from these tanks. the Bradley was not intended for this role because it was supposed to either flee or fire a TOW as suppressing fire for its retreating units.
the Abrams was never intended for this role either, as it was assumed that CAS would remove anything dangerous that was not easily seen, and the Bradley and APCs could clean up using their infantry.
the M10 fills the role of Anti armor that the Bradley was trying to fill and the Abrams was being used for. it was decided that form logistical reasons and many other things the M10 could serve these roles by being an AFV more than a Bradley and less than a M1A1. this is good because it means that transportation costs can be cut down but there is a minimal loss of effective fighting power. it would also use the 105mm cannon.
@fuge74 Like the other guy said, the M10 is not a tank destroyer or anything like that. It is an AFV with an assault gun, whose main job is to support infantry. Blowing up buildings and fortifications, and providing direct fire support for infantry. Just in case you didn't know that is also the role that MBT's fill most often. Yes Kuwait had a significant amount of AFV/tanks, vs other AFV/tanks, but that was a different war in a different time. ATGMs, mines, and drones are the things killing AFVs and tanks these days (at least in Ukraine). Armor on armor battles are rare, even in history, so much to the point that most of a tanks ammunition was high explosive. This is because, again, a tanks main role was (and still is) supporting infantry. Saying the M10 is going to be on overwatch for armored threats is just wrong. It will be lobbing high explosive at fortified targets. A drone will be on overwatch, spot the enemy tank, the M10 will back off or hold back until a ATGM takes out the enemy armor, then it will continue blowing up bunkers and buildings.
I served 21 years as a 19D Cavalry Scout. The xm30 of 56 tons is to heavy, their crazy to have IFV that heavy. The new M10 Booker medium lite Tank is only 42 tons. I've been a driver, Gunner, and Bradley Commander for most of my career, and was extremely satisfied with the 30 ton weight was manageable with the amount of fire power it brought to the battlefield.
The Namer is heavier than the Bradley, at 64 tons, but their design philosophy is different. They are adding Spike ATGMs and a light cannon as weapons rather than a heavy cannon. Also, it has a Trophy APS or Iron Fist, so there is a much greater focus on defense than what the US appears to be designing. If you aren't going to focus so much on defense, it might be a good idea to have multiple smaller systems (as you state, their vulnerability to weapons means that you may not want to risk all your soldiers in one vehicle).
very true I covered the Namer about a year ago its one of my favorite IFVs , Israel is really creative with how they created a main battle tank converted to a IFV
I am sure Rheinmetall will try to sell it's strikeshield aps with the whole package since they built it into the armor "bricks" (AMAP) anyway. It covers upwards too for a certain angle too, and the backside.
@Taskandpurpose not the first time either! You should look up the Nagmachon. The Israelis managed to fit 10 passengers and 2 crew into ancient Centurion tank hulls! Now that's mind-blowing considering their age, and for a tank notably long and thing proportionally.
In my opinion, Namer is specialized vehicle for Israel conditions. It is wonderfull vehicle, but closely focesed on what Israel needs. I can not imagine it used as IFV in places like Europe or Asia when it gets muddy and ground presure start beeing a thing. Similar its engine needs to produce more power -> more heat. Especialy on plane fields of Europe low thermal footprint is a good thing.
The Namer was also not intended for transport around the world, so the weight is not as much an issue as for the US.
Here's my guess for a feature, with the programmable fuzes, you could program burst patterns. A 5 round burst where each detonates a little before the last for clearing trenches, etc. That would be cool as hell
Great show Cappy! A lot of really good info. As far as the "hard limits" on weight, my first thought is that if they can't build an IFV under 55 tons, then maybe they are over-building it? However, whatever the limits are, if it needs 1 or 2 extra tons to achieve a specific application, then it should not matter.
That said, don't we have to transport these things in USAF planes? And THEY have limits! So, if we are already over the weight to carry 2 on a C-17, then it probably won't matter for a few tons, right?
Two things. The engineer seems like the type that sees anyone who disagrees as stupid peons. And you really break down this information well. Great work.
Engineers have a arrogance problem, and will absolutely disavow any responsibility for their project collapsing. They loathe consulting with the field techs with decades of experience that try to explain to the engineers why their design won’t work.
It could be that Or it could be they just wanted a look at the specs, and needed an excuse to have the freedom of information act apply. Maybe if the engineer had other complaints then those numbers wouldn't have been made available. So they made requests for information, even though it is obvious why some of the limitations were made (max width for railway transport as the prime example).
@blackhawk7r221 As a saying goes:
"Engineers will pass over 1000 virgins to F*** a technician."
Engineers are taught that math is always right. Then the idiots among them that means because they play with math, they’re always right.
@@blackhawk7r221 No, we do not. We just ask direct questions, and it's part of our jobs. Too many people are too emotional and take it personally, getting defensive. Not everyone of course hates engineers, but the ones that do tend to be overly emotional types.
Airburst programmable munition has been in use with Swedish CV9040 for almost 30 years now. Glad US is catching up. ;)
wow. excellent video. a truly massive amount of information. as an ops guy I enjoyed your quick note that logistics officers would enjoy commonality of chasis.
Back in 1981, my unit got stationed in Italy to test out the EM50 Urban Assault Vehicle. It looked like a Winnebago and a couple of guys took it out joy riding and ended up in Czechoslovakia. SGT Hulka was pissed. Long story. Would make a good movie.
As long as it can defeat a DJI drone with an rpg tapped onto it
I think as more advanced munitions are developed, an emphasis in armor to shift towards discretion and speed are more favorable than just stacking mass.
There is also an idea floating around in the space sector about 3d printing ablative materials; combined with reactive layers, it might be possible to make armor more efficient in weight.
Titanium alloys in track technology has been talked about for awhile as well, which would further reduce weight and prevent plastic deformation (allowing for faster, more reliable repairs).
I’m all for stand-off capabilities. Holding the enemy off at distance involves superior use of terrain and countering cyber, artillery, and air threats. Just hope that after getting all these high tech long range toys, our troops have commanders and strategic thinkers who plan for actually using those capability and not some of the current activity the military seems to be getting attention for.
Given the lethality and pervasiveness of drones and man portable anti armour weapons on the modern battlefield, active defence seems almost more important than armour. That 50 calibre gun seems like it will be very effective.
Active protection makes no point if the platform wouldn't be able to survive some most common battlefield projectiles: 23-mm ZU-23-2 (as it simply refuses to retire and is still literally everywhere) and 30mm BMP-2/Type86, the latter rumored to be equipped with APFS... of some sorts. Not to mention BMP-3/Type04, which adds 100mm HE to the equation (or even low-velocity AP/HEAT if need would be there, as it is semi-compatible with T-12 cannon...)
So, at the very least, it should be able to survive a short burst of 30mm APDS or even APFS shots from at least somewhat reasonable distance *and* some reasonable protection from HE artillery shells falling nearby before active protection would make any difference to the survivability. U.....an conflict demonstrated that perfectly...
Looks like air-force approaches comes to land forces ... universal pilon on which can be put any rocket or other equipment ...
I believe a consideration for the weight needs to be kept in mind is the engineer mobility aspect. Having a lighter vehicle that can cross a combat engineer laid MGB bridge under fire would be a lot more useful than something that cant.
I dont know, just talking as an Combat E
The HAEB-T's programmable airburst sounds very similar to the new 30mm and 35mm munitions that Rheinmetall uses in their Skynex and Skyguard AA systems. So, it is possible in smaller calibre as well.
Edit: removed word to be grammatically correct
Bofors makes the 3P multi-purpose, programmable round.
Appreciate the edit info, don't let people tell you it's stupid
AHEAD uses a fairly mild burst/dispersal charge.
RWM Swiss produces AHEAD and KETF in 30mm for the Rheinmetall MK30-2/ABM
Hell, there have been experiments with small arms rounds with guidance systems in DARPA. It is less about tech and more about cost. The smaller the chip, the smaller the node size and the higher the cost. When you are making millions of rounds, a few dollars saved per round is huge.
HEAB-T will help US alot. We have had it on our vehicles in Sweden for many years. It is a game changer.
I could see the 50mm gun getting repurposed for short range air defense too with the size of the shell being capable of fitting proximity fuses for shooting down drones and other low altitude threats.
The Rheinmetall/Raytheon KF 41 Lynx apparently is more modern and modular and has capacity for 8 infantrymen. However I guess since the General Dynamics M1 Tank is gonna be updated to a high tech new level, the most probable option is the G D....
The xm30 is based of the KF 41 Lynx chassis in co work with Raytheon and other companies.
The amount of high quality editing here is amazing. It would have taken me a good two weeks just to edit this. Let alone write it. Great work.
An FOI isn't a leak... It's an authorised release based on a request from the public :)
It’s called clickbait. Aka. Journalism dishonesty
Good video Cappy. Watched it last night night and have been mulling several questions about this weapon. I served in the Army during the '70's but was not in the Infantry. My main question is, why does every one of these vehicles need to have the 50mm gun? Granted it's a potent weapon, and would be very essential to the effectiveness of a mechanized infantry unit. But do you need this gun on every vehicle? Why not partner one of these vehicles with two or three other XM30's but without the big gun, just some sort of remotely controlled mini-gun for suppressive fire? That would reduce the weight/cost of most of the vehicles and allow you to increase the number of personnel in each. I hope my questions are making sense and maybe someone with mechanized infantry experience can tell me where I am wrong. Thanks.
Thanks for your great sitreps. Keep up the good work soldier. Thank you for your service.
A decent summary video. However, unlike so many on YT, you covered the essential trade-off on the IFV main gun - lethality vs. ammo capacity vs standardization. Once we moved from APC to IFV, crew compartment tradeoffs became highly constrained. We worked on part of this in the 90s with Case Telescoped Ammunition (CTA) to fit larger calibers into smaller volumes, but stopped after FCS PMO put contractors in charge of Army system requirements. And as far as the new fuzing technology - that began in the mid-late 90s when automotive ABS started to make rate sensors cheap and rugged. I might not have placed so much weight on one system engineer's complaints, especially one without the personal credibility to effectively disposition concerns without going to the "Press". As an aside, the Defense industry isn't the corrupt enterprise pictured in movies or on RUclips. After 35 years working on major weapons systems following my active duty, I can say the enterprise is populated by dedicated people working long hours in a highly structured and tightly regulated environment. Maybe your time working in the Defense industry or for DOD provided insights? I compliment you for developing a perspective from your relatively brief military experience in one domain, under conditions that no longer exist.
Whoa. It's cool seeing how regulations in one industry - requiring cars to have anti lock braking systems (ABS) - can have huge impacts on an entirely different realm, making twist rate sensors rugged and affordable enough to slap 'em into 50mm shells.
I agree with you about the defense industry being populated by dedicated patriots, but don't underestimate the power of corruption. We've seen entire egencies be completely corrupted by just a few key positions. Creating conflicts to launder money is rampant in this world we live in
Like the CV90 but twice as expensive.
But more tec
Also why is it so heavy. The CV90 weighs 38 tonnes (with armor package on). This thing weighs at minimum 50 something tonnes
@@Rono99Compared to the CV90 Mark IV?.. not really... & They should probably compare to a Mark V..🤔 Ukraine is going for a CV90 production line of it's own.. I bet the ones coming off that line will have very thought through upgrades, after using CV9040 C's in combat..
@@leifiseland1218 i would think that they woukd take notes from this war , i also think it will have better atgm protection
GCS common infrastructure architecture is something that should have been a priority decades again, and is one of the major downsides of putting stuff out to tender. This is why we can't just make a bunch of additional systems (like when we run low during a war...), because the development kit used to make them is now in a landfill somewhere, not to mention the Engineers now have switched jobs
I had a 3D part printed for a Hot Wheels car in steel and was shocked at how heavy the tiny piece was. To give you an idea, a pinewood derby car weight the same size as the part I had printed is about 3g, while my printed part is 11g. Stacking 3 weights would be more mass and still not as heavy as the part I had printed in steel. Print the tanks!
What material did you print with?
I find this very relatable. I got a 5kg table from Ikea. Then I built a replica of it and wow, it came out as 18kg.
WTF.
@@geraldfjord2383 I used a company called Shapeways, you may have heard of them? The only info I got was that is steel. I wish I knew more about the metal printing.
I think the biggest thing that needs implemented is every ifv being amphibious. The days of floating bridges are over.
I wonder if the 55t weight limit has to do with airlift capability. 2 55t vehicles is 220,000lbs, max load on the C-17 is 300,000ish lbs. This allows the C-17 to carry 2 of them and still have a decent fuel load. As the C-17 was originally designed to carry 1 Abrams, 2 Bradleys or 3 Strykers.
This is my go to channel now. Great work, seldom does one see such a thorough unbiased assessment of a particular topic.
7:45 The Israeli Merkava based Namer, which carries 11 soldiers (3 operators + 8 combat soldiers), weighs 63 tons
Because it’s a merkava tank…
Israel will never have to airlift the Namer and fight in the Pacific with it. Great for Israel, not suitable for US missions.
@Rob_F8F
Exactly right. And given that most countries don't fight overseas, it is reasonable to assume that on average US armor vehicles will be much lighter compared to most other countries. This stands in contrast to the claim made in 7:45.
The new Australian IFV Redback is 42t and has 8 dismounts. The vehicle will offer armour protection options from STANAG Levels 2 to 6 and will be equipped with an advanced active protection system (APS) that can defend incoming line-of-sight guided anti-tank missiles/projectiles. The Iron Fist APS equipped with integrated radars and electro-optics will enable the Redback to detect, classify, and counter several threats.
Politically eliminated big difference @@uku4171
@@uku4171 Seeing the CV90 in Ukraine doing great work and almost standing out, I would like to see what a CV90-based next-generation system with American-level funding would look like at least. For one thing, CV90 already has a pretty damn big gun, so going to a 50mm may not be as difficult as far as recoil management is concerned.
Let's just say there is a good reason why Ukraine is looking to manufacture CV90s inside Ukraine eventually.
@@uku4171 As much as I love American weapons, Swedish weapons are sexy pieces of hardware.
Love Task etc. I really like how Cappy starts out clean shaven and ends with a full beard in under 30min.
The Swedish CV9040 and CV9035 with their 40mm or 35/50 cannon have had technology for a long time with programable ammunition able to hit inside trenches, drones or other flying objects... so good to hear the US are catching up in the technology... ;)
The same for the CV90 mark III and IV open architecture using GPU and huge information crunching capability... this is not new... :)
This stuff was developed by the swiss somewhere in the 90s to eraly 2000s, so it comes around eventually.
I have to tell you one of the most well spoken and informative channels and person around
"really high levels instead of insanely high levels" Best description of military procurement ever.
If the "virtual crew member" can't pull a guard shift it doesn't count
well... i'd just call it the third eye then... just like doctor strange...
Interesting looking PUMA
"It helps to keep corruption levels down to really high levels instead of insanely high levels"
Slight correction. The Super50 (XM913) that is planned to be installed on MMFV is not the same one that Rheinmetall has previously tested. Rheinmetall tested A true full length Supershot 50 gun with a 50x393mm ammo meanwhil the Super50 from Northrop is an upgraded version of 35mm Bushmaster III with a neck-up ammo 50x228mm which is why it retained the cartridge length. It's a similar upgrade from 30mm Mk44 S to Super40. It's basically a way for the Army to retain the Stowage kill of the 35mm cartridge meanwhile having a larger ammo.
The MMFV is also already too heavy if it exceeds 50 tons especially if they are only looking at 6 dismounts and 2 crew members. The Lynx KF41 is maxed out at 50 tons with upgrades if I'm not mistaken. You also mentioned that the Army M1 Abrams is already too heavy but the Army already knows it and that's why they are looking at shedding weight for future variants. They should look at how South Korea, French and Japan utilized modular armore package and autoloaders to reduce weight (not to mention training a good loader takes time).
Hanwha AS-21 just won against KF-41 in the Australian IFV program and I'm skeptical with them not picking the AS-21 to compete on the next step of the program.
6:27 Macgregor is determined to get his thinking out into the world. Regardless of what you think of him at present time, he did show us the future with his performance at NTC in 1993. Wikipedia describes his success there as:
"The series of five battles usually end in four losses and a draw for the visiting units; his unit won three, lost one, and drew one. Macgregor's unit dispersed widely, took unconventional risks, and anticipated enemy movements."
Dispersing is apparently key now.
Worked in Desert Storm and that NTC scenario but the Russians have shown though what they'd do in a conventional war in Europe: lay down highly dense minefields that would make dispersion very difficult.
@@VitoDepho let's not be fooled - no one in NATO or the USA will lead a ground attack with any armored vehicle without first securing at least 80% control in the air...
it's very sweet to shake Iraqis who had at least two generations of old weapons, with combat experience and skills on paper in a desert that makes your goals more than easy... and we are talking about a completely different situation where you have forests, rivers, very populated locations and a motivated opponent who adapts...
Against Iran or North Korea or the Taliban, yes, but "first securing at least 80% control in the air" is not guaranteed against Russia or China in a conventional, non-world-ending nuclear war. That's what these heavily protected next-generation vehicles are for, first probably going to the US Army's newly-designed "penetration" divisions or whatever they're known now. Mutual access denial to the air is a real concern against so-called near-peer adversaries.
@@VitoDepho These heavily protected next-generation vehicles are actually illusory technically protected. Especially these days. The whole concept of these machines is electronics, optics, sensitive external architecture that can be disabled with a $2,000 drone. A well-aimed RPG, a heavy sniper... and that's it. You're blind. Nominally your crew is ok, so is the landing party, but you're useless.
As the conflict in Ukraine showed, the actual battlefield survivability of such infantry vehicles is half to 2 hours. Then it's out of order. Damaged, in need of repair at the rear or destroyed. It's an infantry fighting vehicle, you can't defend it like a tank, a direct hit from an ATGM or a 152 mm shell and that's it. To some extent, the salvation would be in an APS system, but it will make the project even more expensive... the balance of price, weight, speed, protection and impact power is very difficult.
@diegosimeone A $2,000 drone can be shot down, especially now with forces aware of them. RPG gunners and snipers can be killed or blown up.
Yes, the problem of minefields and artillery are real. That's why mine-clearing and counter-battery is important.
The deployment of RWS in early Strykers and other vehicles only whet the appetite for remote weapon stations. Goes with thermal sensors and even small vehicle radar sets now. Nobody's gone, "oh no RPG gunners and snipers will take out the optics so let's not do it". All modern militaries have doubled, tripled down on RWS and soon remote turrets.
These things will, of course, likely cost a ton. But these are for militaries like the US and advanced Western countries that can afford to acquire, operate, maintain, replace and upgrade them. Conscript armies that can't afford to do so need not apply, or wait for the cheap, less capable knock-offs.
DIY gaming PCs are a great example of open "modular architecture" - standardized sizes, connectors, and communication protocols.
I hope these are UAP/UFO rated lol
I feel like that 50mm cannon is a big advance, especially its anti-drone capability. It's fire support capabilities to support the infantry is impressive too, 50mm is big enough to give quite good explosive capacity for fire support missions - 50mm light mortars used by Germany and Japan back in WW2 for example. So this has a full auto version of that with programmable rounds that can also shoot down drones. Nice.
The xm30/m10 booker need to work on the same hull, drive train, power pack, and as many common sensors and electronics, as possible. This drastically reduces price per unit, along with improving production rates to meet demands, and reduces the cost of creating new plants to build them, in quantity. In the field maintenance will be easier and reduces the tooth to tail T3 ratio for logistical efforts.
Wait, remember that the 30 ton Bradley is made of Aluminium with added steel armor plates! If you want to build a better protected future IFV, you will have to get rid of the Aluminium and go back to steel armor. This will get you to 55 tons easily, even if you stick to Bradley dimensions.
One thing that should also be mentioned when it comes to the cannon is that those larger calibers will also give it better anti-infantry ability via that massive increase in HE power.
What the complaint really shows is the major difference between the West and East.
The complaint happened, was listened too, and did not cause someone to "fall" out of a window.
Listening to dissent allows for a greater final result.
These vids are excellent.
You missed the most important question: Can this vehicle safely transport pregnant soldiers?
Don’t worry, at 9:56, you can clearly see that Kevin Fitzpatrick (he/him) is on the job. I’m sure he’s making all the accommodations for all genders and skin tones.