Did Oxalic Acid KILL My Hives?! + when is the best time to harvest honey? Beekeeping 101

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  • Опубликовано: 22 окт 2024

Комментарии • 74

  • @MrMielten
    @MrMielten 3 месяца назад +3

    The brood pattern in some of the hives reminds me of AFB or the result of a huge mite load! You need to take steps quickly to figure out the reason(s) for your issues! Oxalic vapourisation can be ruled our to be responsible!

  • @redbone5363
    @redbone5363 3 месяца назад +6

    Try oxalic acid and glycerin soaked blue shop towels, 1 cup heated glycerin and 1 cup oxalic acid. soak a roll of towels and place one in each hive over brood chamber. Works well and no harm to bees.

  • @KajunHomestead
    @KajunHomestead 3 месяца назад +6

    Hello, I'm in Louisiana, I use OA and never had it burn the brood, you may have something else going on , maybe high stress load from high mite loads may be the reason for the spotty brood. Good luck.

    • @Manuherikiabeekeeping
      @Manuherikiabeekeeping 2 месяца назад

      Yes agree, oxalic is one of the brood friendliest treatments unless you're really really shovelling it in but I've heard of people accidentally putting in two full teaspoons on a vapour wand and not getting torched brood and that's really shovelling it in. Good suggestion for the long release treatment though, anything that keeps pinning those mites over a decent duration is a win.

  • @peteGbee
    @peteGbee 3 месяца назад +6

    locally adapted bees will shrink their brood rearing during dearths or stop laying. to say you need to requeen that may be a mistake. I specifically breed for my bees to do this in New England and have found that my locally adapted genetics is a huge reason I am successfull treatment free. colonies not responding to enviroment and cutting back laying during dearths causes nothing but stress, disease and much higher mite issues. Went through my breeders yesterday they all stopped laying which is what I want to see with a dearth. sheets of brood is not always a good thing depending on your goals. if your a commercial beekeeper doing pollination and breeding for making packages and treating and making bees and colonies and honey and feeding then yes that could be whay you want. but just stating that colonies reducing size and laying during low resources is not bad and in fact I select for it and makes me successful. People have different goals and we should never say absolutes in beekeeping

  • @bernardardis8796
    @bernardardis8796 2 месяца назад

    I think the pattern is natural that they are backing down her brood for dearth. Possibly too long on the OA causing it to overheat during treatment. I am completely treatment free 3rd year at 100 hives and climbing. Feel free to try some of my queens. 85% survivor rate last winter. I'm between Lansing and Grand Rapids North of I96

  • @lcan9447
    @lcan9447 3 месяца назад +3

    That heat on the vaporizer sounds pretty hot to me. I do mine at 230/240 and it vaporizes pretty quick with a nice cloud burst. I do 1 treat wait 5 days then 1 every 5 days for a total of 20 days. Test your vaporizer set it at 230 and see how well it vaporizes. That’s 5 treatments in a 25 day period

  • @dcsblessedbees
    @dcsblessedbees 3 месяца назад +4

    I have been using OAV for 3 years now and not seen it do anything like that, OAVed every 4 days for 3 to 4 treatments and it didn't slow mine down any. Some of those look hungry, has your season been real back and forth on the weather?
    The only way I have seen OAV burn the brood is if you are blowing that hot vapor directly on the brood or using far to much on a small nuc. The vapor only stays in the Hive for about a 30 minute after that it's gone, Chemistry.
    Sorry for the problems you are running into, but I have never seen OAV do that. Keep rolling forward Emily you two will get your system figured around.

  • @MrMielten
    @MrMielten 3 месяца назад +1

    Oxalic acid vapour is not responsible for the state of your hive but it does not have a good effect on the mites either if it is warm, dry and the bees take care of a lot of brood! 80%-90% of all the mites are inside the brood cells and will not be killed!

  • @randybrocka1941
    @randybrocka1941 3 месяца назад +1

    I have noticed when i vaporize oa that some oa powder is very fine and leave a white film on everything, even the bees, it doesn’t seem to hurt them. Iowa has seen lots of rain also but the bees are packing out the frames with honey, I’ve given up on trying to keep open frames in the boxes. Worried about having a place for the queen to lay. Still in a nectar flow.

  • @CherryGardensCyprus
    @CherryGardensCyprus 2 месяца назад

    Hi! I had a hive this way yesterday. The bottom box was cleaned out except for pollen! I think this is robbing behavior and maybe the hive is cleaning out mite infested cells

  • @BackBeeBrokenBeekeeping
    @BackBeeBrokenBeekeeping 2 месяца назад +1

    Most important lesson you can learn from this is part of the scientific method. Correlation does not prove causation. It is very easy to do A, see effect B and immediately jump to the conclusion that action A caused condition B.... but that is usually not the case. And I don't think it is the case here either.

  • @sidelinerbeekeeper
    @sidelinerbeekeeper 2 месяца назад +1

    Without holding the frame to the camera, it's hard to confirm, but at 22:00, that frame has something going on, sack brood on one side, maybe chalkboard on the other also. The dead larvae I see could be EFB. They all look the same at a flash. You would need to hold these frames steady for us to see them. If you don't know your mite counts, we don't know your virus loads. Mites can cause all of the above. Those bad patterns would improve with syrup, the queen has too much space to lay, but the bees don't have enough food to feed the larvae to be healthy so it dies.They need frames and frames of honey in a dearth to continue to grow the population, or they will pull back on feeding larvae and the brood dies or viruses take over. I am not surprised that you don't get any fall honey by starving the bees leading up to the flow. That is why I don't pull all of the summer honey because it can be a lot of work to feed the bees and build the population for fall and winter. Leave them some honey for the dearth or feed. Starving bees are not healthy and don't produce a surplus. I would start feeding a gallon of 2:1 until they have several frames of honey. They are hand to mount when they should feel like they have too much. EDIT: In your last video, you said you saw mites, so you could be seeing them crash from "PMS" as the queen pulls back on brood rearing from the dearth.

    • @researcherAmateur
      @researcherAmateur 2 месяца назад +1

      You wrote it better than l would. After rewatching it l notes that they don't have even the top corners on the frames of food. They are so hungry.. surviving on brood. And the worse thing that can happen is the STRESS that bees simply can't take and because of stress every disease comes out. Plus nobody knows how much varroa was and is there. But I can guarantee that OAV does nothing to capped brood. There's no way OAV killed it. The hunger made the stress and after that everything else happened.
      They extracted everything.. left only the brood box honey and those Italians don't know how to stop the brooding and eaten the corners and the crowns above brood in no time. That's a very bad problem.. many diseases are visible. It would take a miracle to bring them back... and probably a lot of combining. And she wants them to draw comb. Pull those sheets out and restrict them and feed. Run !!!

    • @Swarmstead
      @Swarmstead 2 месяца назад +1

      We all over here cringing at these videos? 😆

    • @researcherAmateur
      @researcherAmateur 2 месяца назад +1

      @@Swarmstead it's like watching a good drama movie. If l remember good.. the video started with the talk for New Beekeepers and how much honey they should extract or leave in the hives... yeah, good talk

  • @harvestmaid5669
    @harvestmaid5669 2 месяца назад +1

    Powder sugar method?

  • @benjamindejonge3624
    @benjamindejonge3624 2 месяца назад +1

    Im here in southern Spain and my last 2 years are disastrous because no rain and flowers

  • @won2winit
    @won2winit 3 месяца назад +1

    Oxalic acid should not affect capped brood so could it be that the colonies detected issues and removed the brood that was there?

  • @bernardardis8796
    @bernardardis8796 2 месяца назад

    Bob Binnie has the Florida beekeepers series there's a natural essential oil recipe for mites. If I ever have to I will use that. It's different than others by using camphor oil.

  • @donaltland7957
    @donaltland7957 2 месяца назад

    The temperature should be between 325 to 375 on the unit that you are using. At 460 the oxalic acid converts to formic acid. Try using a lower temperature.

  • @eliinthewolverinestate6729
    @eliinthewolverinestate6729 3 месяца назад

    It depends because the basswood to bloom in mass every other year. Too much honey early and I will take some frames first week of July. I use queen cages for brood brakes, thymol, and sugar water for mites. Sticky bees need to be cleaned. They also clean the hive. I am in U.P. so don't harvest till around labor day in the U.P. I leave 60-80 lbs in my Lazutin hives. I only take outer frames. They store a lot of resources above brood areas in the large Lazutin frames. I have planted large plots of food plot clover in my orchard. And lots of milkweed and thistle. The berry blooms were full this year. The fruit trees got hit hard this year in the U.P. Not a lot of cherries, apples, or service berries. So was a slow start for bee's this year. Right now S.E. MI they are on the milkweed and clover. I love the smell of the milkweed on the motorcycle.

  • @henry6941
    @henry6941 3 месяца назад +2

    No problem with OA in Alabama with my hives.

  • @reneallen6405
    @reneallen6405 2 месяца назад

    Did you buy the correct oxsalic acid?

  • @illumi-Nate
    @illumi-Nate 3 месяца назад +1

    OA extended release pads with swedish sponges, or u could do a "medium or weak " OA & glycerin+water solution in a spray bottle (dribble) , works awesome & easy on the bees! Randy Oliver scientific beekeeping site for recipes.. if randy Oliver does it then it's a good method duh

  • @mikemcgilvray8558
    @mikemcgilvray8558 3 месяца назад +1

    I'm using power sugar treatment

  • @illumi-Nate
    @illumi-Nate 3 месяца назад +2

    Looks like that colony u showed needs feed & reduced down to 1 box

  • @vinnie20
    @vinnie20 3 месяца назад +1

    I'm a first yr. keeper in upper NC. I found the queen 3 weeks ago adding the second deep and was beyond excited! I checked them yesterday and now I can't find her. I'm a little freaked out that she left?? What do you think? Also, I'm leaving all the honey, so they have plenty for winter. And what do you think about the Oxalic Acid strips? Thank you for your awesome info you give!

    • @dcsblessedbees
      @dcsblessedbees 3 месяца назад +1

      Look for eggs and larva, a single queen bee can become difficult to find when a hive gets large.

  • @Prisacarul
    @Prisacarul 3 месяца назад

    It seems to me the bees are moving in a strange way on the frames. Something is wrong...for shore.

  • @MeadApiaries
    @MeadApiaries 2 месяца назад

    I use OAV and I generally apply in the AM and have never had an issue such as you described.

  • @Manuherikiabeekeeping
    @Manuherikiabeekeeping 2 месяца назад

    Hi from central Otago southern new Zealand 👋 this isn't oxalic acid brood burn, id suspect either a sketchy queen, or in your part of the world European foul brood which we fortunately don't have in New Zealand but that shotgun brood pattern is almost classic efb indication or misfiring queen issue, or possibly pesticide exposure. Id check for efb and afb, see if youve got sunk brood or scale and eliminate that first as a cause. Yould need to really really shovel oxalic vapour in to get a brood burn, theres something else going on.

  • @alvincolson4332
    @alvincolson4332 3 месяца назад +1

    Do it during the brood break it will slow every thing down

  • @vancetilley7942
    @vancetilley7942 3 месяца назад

    I read oxalic acid will decompose to formic acid and carbon dioxide at temperatures between 180 - 230 degrees Celsius (350 - 440F). Might dial your vaporizer temp back to just below 180C (350F). The creation of formic, aggravated by the heat of the summer day, may be causing the problems. I usually only use OA vapor in Fall or Winter, and only at times the foragers are all in the hive (late evening, or in the cold or rain).

    • @beefitbeekeeping
      @beefitbeekeeping  3 месяца назад

      This would explain why I am seeing similarities to what has happened to the brood plus how the queen is acting after the fact. Exactly what happened during this is exactly what happens after a Formic treatment. The queens are going crazy with their laying now. Wow chemistry is cool. That is great to know thank you!

    • @researcherAmateur
      @researcherAmateur 3 месяца назад +1

      No. And No. And stop scaring people with wrong conclusions

    • @beefitbeekeeping
      @beefitbeekeeping  3 месяца назад +1

      @@researcherAmateurcan you send some research backing your statement please

    • @researcherAmateur
      @researcherAmateur 3 месяца назад

      @@beefitbeekeeping what you need to do is to do your own research on all the vaporizers (sublimators in Europe) you can buy and see the temps they work on. It's 20 years by now that we use it. All the research is already done. It's very simple. The powder turns to liquid, the liquid evaporates and cools down the chamber. That's why they are set to bigger temps for the start.
      Your welcome

    • @beefitbeekeeping
      @beefitbeekeeping  3 месяца назад

      @@researcherAmateuractually please do a little bit more digging for yourself, OA does not enter a liquid state. In the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics we find that upon heating oxalic acid, the water of hydration boils off first, then at 315°F the oxalic acid starts to sublime (go directly from solid to vapor), and finally at 372°F any oxalic acid which has not yet sublimed decomposes to initially to formic acid and carbon dioxide, and then to CO2, carbon monoxide, and water).

  • @illumi-Nate
    @illumi-Nate 3 месяца назад

    If your plan was doing OA Weekly than lighter treatments would be effective....in my opinion I always see a descent mite drop off of weak OA treatments

  • @Steele_Wings
    @Steele_Wings 2 месяца назад

    I have had colonies abscond if I overdose with OA.

  • @TerryWheelyabarrabackApiary
    @TerryWheelyabarrabackApiary 3 месяца назад

    6 day's apart? Usually 2 weeks apart. That's what all my instructions say. Never had a problem. The white powder is unburned OA. Check the gun is working properly.

  • @rickydavis5422
    @rickydavis5422 3 месяца назад

    I'm about to OAV my hive this week and I am worried about this same exact thing. I'm in South Houston.

  • @erdaltalhabasaran
    @erdaltalhabasaran 3 месяца назад

    Varroa sorunu büyük. yavru çürüğü. acilen kapalı yavru imhası, çerçeve sayısı azaltma.sıkıştırma,daraltma ve oksalik asit püskürtme yapılmalıdır.

    • @inharmonywithearth9982
      @inharmonywithearth9982 Месяц назад +1

      You are absolutely correct in your diagnosis. I fully agree with you.

    • @erdaltalhabasaran
      @erdaltalhabasaran Месяц назад

      @@inharmonywithearth9982 Thank you very much.

  • @unclereefer37
    @unclereefer37 3 месяца назад +1

    I have seen my bees decide to want to replace their queen and also bad laying patterns when I have used the instavape, BUT I figure I was also aggressively moving frames around like you do within in a couple of weeks before I started the treatment. What happened for me is that they seemed to settle down and pulled down the swarm cells they had made after the treatment was over and All went back to normal. This makes me think that the queen either reduced pheromone or the queen smell was somehow masked, AND OR the queen ran off to a corner of the hive that communication with the rest of the hive was tough because of the moved around frames. But rest assured this moment of discomfort is so little a hurdle considering you will have no mites in these hives the rest of the year

    • @beefitbeekeeping
      @beefitbeekeeping  3 месяца назад

      Thank you for sharing this, what temperature is your instavape set to?

    • @unclereefer37
      @unclereefer37 3 месяца назад

      @@beefitbeekeeping 90% sure it is 230 C or 446F

    • @unclereefer37
      @unclereefer37 2 месяца назад

      @@beefitbeekeeping I have looked up weather Oxalic can turn into Formic and it seems it requires gliserol and heat. I looked up possible impurities in 99.6% oxalic acid dihydrate, and gliserol is not among them. Though Formic acid is a possible impurity. THere you go some 2 bit detective work for ya

  • @Not_all_as_it_seems
    @Not_all_as_it_seems 2 месяца назад

    Oxalic burns their little feet right off....

  • @brendawydeven2934
    @brendawydeven2934 2 месяца назад

    Did you do mite test before and after? That pattern looks like you may still have high mite load or could be to much moisture which can also cause issues. We have had so much rain in Wisconsin also. It's been crazy. I use oa vape in early spring and late fall when there's less brood because with oa it only gets mite that's not under cappings so you need to treat for a month to cover the brood under capping. I use hopguard 3 in summer every 2 weeks 2 or e times depending on counts but I have top bar hives and only a couple hives so it's not to pricey for me to use. Hive that has no brood, probably need to feed them. It's been a rough year for sure. Even on overwintered hives.

  • @russellaymond312
    @russellaymond312 2 месяца назад

    If it was mitesyou need to continue treatments.,because it will take more than 2 treatments. But I'd say it was mites.

  • @coryrthomas6674
    @coryrthomas6674 3 месяца назад

    I have heard in the Fall cooler weather

  • @phil5888
    @phil5888 3 месяца назад

    That shotgun brood pattern might be EFB.

  • @chanceneal4899
    @chanceneal4899 3 месяца назад

    I was definitely going to say I’m pretty sure every RUclipsr bee keeper runs temps somewhere one the 300s

  • @L0RD0ftheSt1ngs
    @L0RD0ftheSt1ngs 3 месяца назад

    If your OA vaporizer is heating to over 375 degrees then you were putting formic acid into the hives. OA turns into formic at 375 degrees. Your vaporizer is way to hot at those temps. Should be around 315 degrees but not exceed 375

    • @beefitbeekeeping
      @beefitbeekeeping  3 месяца назад +1

      Ahhhhh this make so much more sense now!! I keep telling Kasey that looking at the hives immediately after and now 2 weeks after you would think I put a Formic treatment on bc the brood was burnt just like Formic, and now the queen is laying like crazy just like Formic. Thank you for helping me get to the bottom of this. This is why I love science ♥️

    • @researcherAmateur
      @researcherAmateur 3 месяца назад

      No. What happens to the chamber temperature when the oxalic acid drops in and becomes a liquid before evaporating ?

    • @beefitbeekeeping
      @beefitbeekeeping  3 месяца назад

      @@researcherAmateurthe farthest it drops down is usually 390F if I am using more OA on a bigger colony. But for a typical dose then 400 ish is what it drops to

    • @researcherAmateur
      @researcherAmateur 3 месяца назад

      @@beefitbeekeeping from what I know you would be the first in 20 years that had problems because of OAV. I did tests with 10 grams and never seen frames like that

    • @researcherAmateur
      @researcherAmateur 3 месяца назад +2

      Who can say anything for sure ? We never seen a good enough footage of the frames. Everything is jumping around.. the only good ones are when the camera is pointing up on her. And now she's asking for opinions. Something is wrong.. very wrong. But what.. I don't like to give simple opinions without having a good look at the frames

  • @brianbennett4374
    @brianbennett4374 3 месяца назад

    Did u use wood bleach or did you use the real OA chemical. Could be what u used. Never saw that with OA 😊

  • @blackberry5908
    @blackberry5908 2 месяца назад

    Pause at 13:40 you have severe mite infestation. K wing and deformed wing virus and varroa can be seen on your bees.

  • @Stoneynz
    @Stoneynz 2 месяца назад

    You are not controlling the Varroa in your hives. 2 doses 6 days apart WILL NOT control varroa.
    I think the best thing you can do is work with a professional beekeeper for a while as alot of the things you say on your videos are incorrect. Example...You are not using eye protection when vaping with Oxalic , this alone shows how you are not researching properly and teaching people the wrong things. Learn how to be a Beekeeper would be my advice.