I think it far more likely that the high level directives were simply controls to prevent her from playing God before the humans were advanced enough to understand what she truly was. We can already see that Aloy's tribe would likely treat her as exactly this if they were to interact, and while Gaia may not have tried to leverage this, the creators probably weren't so sure and put this in as a directive to ensure she wouldn't.
I’ve always wondered (though this may be painfully obvious) if the humans who were released from the cradle facility due to food shortages went on to create the Karja sun religion. They talk about wanting to see the real sun in one of the data points and I thought perhaps their desire to see the sun could later become a religious level of interest.
As far as we know, the humans from the Cradle-9 facility were the ancestors of multiple tribes, the Nora and Carja tribes were sure. But there's a reason for the Carja tribe's worship of the sun: according to the "Founding of Meridian" datapoint, the catalyst for the Carja tribe's formation was the discovery of "The Leaves of the Old Ones" by Araman, the 1st Sun-King. It'd be better to read it for yourself than hear it from me.
It's not just the Carja's sun-worship who's origins are in those holographic data-points. It's the Nora's as well. They called one of the multi-servitor's avatars "mother". The one who released them. She told them she will sleep and remember them all, and they will be brave and they will learn. Being remembered by All-Mother is the Nora mythology's equivalent of an afterlife heaven. Being "forgotten by All-Mother" is their Hell.
The Carja once belonged to the Nora tribe long ago. One day, a man named Araman discovered books from the old ones, and became fascinated with its technology and history. He showed this to the Nora tribe and some were fascinated while others were angry. The Nora leaders locked him out and the ones that followed in his footsteps . From there he went on to the land and created the carja.
Great video as always! I do have 2 ideas on that "High level Directives" line though. One is that it could be another thing Ted Faro did after he killed the alphas and wiped APOLLO. Prevent the new peoples contamination by GAIA by letting her speak to them. Idea 2 is the one I prefer however and that is the fact that GAIA recognizes the humans in the outside world as tribal. This could mean that GAIA was directed not to have any interaction with the New humans until they had reached a sophisticated enough level of technological development for them to understand and not Deify GAIA. Sadly of course this hasn't happened yet so she remains silent
Minor spoilers: It’s also interesting that she can speak to some people in Forbidden West. Maybe that’s because the version of GAIA we meet is a blank slate that copied the data of the original GAIA
My hypothesis is that GAIA did not communicate with the Nora, as they did not reach the level in which they could be entrusted with knowledge of the terraforming system.
NovaClimaxX Since the directives exist, but the state of humanity 2.0 was not foreseen, the directives must be related to the functionality of Gaia if everything were "working as intended." We know from Samina's holo in Deep Secrets of the Earth that Apollo's modules were designed to be gamified and that the inhabitants of Eleuthia facilities would "level up" their knowledge base. We also know from the Artemis Status datapoint that the reintroduction of animal life beyond the pre-selected "pioneer organisms" was to be withheld until humanity 2.0 had shown it was capable of being ecologically responsible - at which point humans would take the reigns of Artemis and initiate the reintroduction of the remaining species. So, taking those two things together, it seems reasonable to conclude that interface access with Gaia's systems has a specific "level requirement." And, since the tribal inhabitants do not meet that level requirement, Gaia isn't allowed to interface with them directly.
Just had an interesting thought: IF the Alphas had survived, they actually might have come to see the day that the plague was deactivated, as it took some 50 years for Gaia' sub function Minerva to break the codes, right? Assuming Gaia didn't have Minerva doing JUST that, and that she build the towers needed to broadcast that code as she worked to break the code, it is possible to assume that 50 years after Zero Dawn was complete, the signal was sent out and the plague definitely deactivated. Considering the Alphas were about 30-50 years of age (dunno exactly for each, I'm just assuming) and considering that advanced medical technology was available to them within Zero Dawn, it's possible they might have seen that fateful day and could even have emerged out into the world again, even if it was just in a survival suit. At least they would have seen SOME of their hard work rewarded...
They were supposed to continue working on Minerva so its very possible that they would have sped up the time table to cracking the Faro Plague’s encryption. The loss of the Alphas is horrifyingly sad just thinking about that alone.
The Sobek protocol would have been put in place well before Day Zero since the alphas didn’t have access to the cradles after the lockdown so Lisbeth did that at least a couple weeks beforehand. Whether this protocol was intended only as a failsafe or as something else it may be possible that Gaia had access to creating another Lisbeth at will. Because of the nature of the game though I think the protocol was hidden away from Ted (may he forever be fucked) juuuust in case he did an oopsie. It seems like that was all he was good for. My understanding of the other subroutines was that they were semi-autonomous specifically to create another semi-AI that Gaia could talk to to determine if the newest iteration of the planet was ready for next steps and everything was functioning well. Hades being meant to kick in if things started going wrong and the planet couldn’t sustain human life means ‘he’ would have been the most active subroutine so its pretty easy to understand why ‘he’ became independent. If the Earth had been restored his purpose would have completely ended and he would have shut down. His AI simply didn’t want yo die. Andwasalsoinfestedwithtedfuckingfarosmindset. In short, *fuck Ted Faro.*
I thought of her protocols forbidding communication with the "tribal" inhabitants as something that would be lifted as they "level-up" their knowledge through Apollo in the original plan. And of course, since they never could do that with Apollo offline, she is still forbidden from communicating with them.
Thanks so much Thalia! For smaller creators like myself this kind of support means a lot. Let me know if you have any more you'd like to see covered in an upcoming vid :)
I think Elizabeth Sobeck's description of her at the beginning of that introduction says everything about GAIA. "An Eternal Guardian" even if humanity has been restored and all knowledge dispensed she would have still been active regardless of the humans taking over her terraforming duties. My only guess at this point is that she will be vigilantly monitoring how the new humanity is progressing in terms of path of technological and ecological advancement (most likely through MINERVA). If she sees a path that leads directly to an extinction event GAIA would most likely initiate an intervention and GAIA being GAIA her nature will never be of a violent reaction nor will it involve loss of life (She had to be isolated from HADES since she will never allow even simulated plants to die while HADES was working). So yea GAIA's primary function is still the protection and progression of life even if humans took over her terraforming.
Man your stuff is so killer! Exactly what I was looking for. I just recently played and beat this game and at first I didn't pay attention to the story because at first it felt like Far Cry Primal and that was a mistake as watching your videos made me realize how much amazing story I missed on the beginning.
For a little insight into just how powerful GAIA, and by extension HEPHAESTUS, is: If you are on a computer running a Windows OS, hit Ctrl+Alt+Del and go to the Task Manager. Switch tabs and scroll down until you see sections marked 'Background processes' and 'Windows processes'. Each one of the processes in those sections is a daemon. Notice how most consume less than 1% of the computer's processing power, and never above 5%? HEPHAESTUS managed to pin CYAN to the wall with less than its metaphorical pinky finger. Now imagine how powerful GAIA must have been to manage and control nine such functions.
I get what you say about Gaia remaining a secret but If humans were to take an active role int the terraforming system, surely they could do that better if they understood it. I think it would have been better if Gaia could have communicated with the people, at least she could have told them somthing about the past and the job they were expected to do. I've never fully aproved of that star trek prime directive.
Another great video, as always! This is just a random question, but how did GAIA know that Elisabet's clone would be able to rebuild her after her self destruction? Surely she must know that APOLLO had been wiped from the system, so how did she know she would be able to be restored?
GAIA did not "Know." That was the best, if not only viable plan. She needed Elisabet genetic profile to access the protocols. I'm imagining that there were plans in place that would have maybe lead Aloy toward rebuilding GAIA, but Hades corruption probably made that not possible. Also Aloy should have been raised up in the tribe like the other children, and GAIA have studied the tribe. She can maybe predict how Aloy may turn out. It all come down to hope. GAIA "hoped" that it would work. Very human of her.
I personally think that this 'high level directive' of hers was part of the failsafes built for Apollo. Perhaps Gaia was not intended to reveal her own existence until she referred to within Apollo's education system. Apollo DID have multitudes of failsafes intended to reveal tech gradually to a growing population, so concealing Gaia's physical location may have been intended as a measure against people trying to gain control of terraforming systems before it was time to do so. I imagine this would have been (partially, at least) intended to prevent factions from developing based on their proximity to vital terraforming functions. If, say... the Nora had developed into a warlike nation, having physical access to the brains of terraforming systems could have been disastrous.
Here's what to consider: -GAIA would not be able to rebuild herself, which means someone else would have to rebuild her. She was expecting for all of her subordinate functions to be destroyed with her, meaning they would be unable to repair GAIA. Therefore, the only being with any chance of restoring GAIA was a human. -GAIA's message indicates awareness of the Nora, as she referred to them as tribal. She knew that they didn't have the resources or understanding necessary. -GAIA couldn't communicate with the tribal inhabitants, but she could certainly communicate with the Alphas of Zero Dawn, so a human with an Alpha's genetic code (a clone) would technically meet those requirements. An Alpha would also be able to access any necessary Zero Dawn facilities. A clone of Elisabet Sobeck would be the obvious choice. -Elisabet Sobeck was curious by nature. That, combined with the unusual circumstances of the clone's birth, would push her to explore the Cradle facility and learn her purpose. -I doubt that GAIA knew for sure whether it would work, but it was her only option. She also had a massive amount of faith in Elisabet.
It was literally a Leap of Faith. Gaia literally believed in her Creator so much that when it came down to having no other options on the table she rolled the dice and prayed that her creator would beat the odds again.
I hope we see GAIA again in the future. I actually thought she was pretty cool, able to hold an almost organic conversation and showed signs of of sentience.
They're not. First of all, there was no "Faro Virus", just a glitch in the Chariot Line that severed the chain of command. Second, The Derangement is HEPHAESTUS's response to humans hunting machines. Seeing humans as a threat to the terraforming system, as well as the flora and fauna of the world, it is creating more dangerous machines (and more aggressive machines) to discourage machine hunting, as well as cull the human population.
Wait a minute!!!!! Maybe the game we play IS the gamified learning system and APOLLO was never deleted and the whole world we see in the first game is just a lived fully immersive VR to bring each individual up to speed and that’s why the NPCs seem like NPCs!!!!
comment at 3:29 in this clip. It states limited animals will be reintroduced to the world and the diversity will be added to only once humans have learnt how to have the correct balance of the ecosystem so does this mean that there are still animals to be reintroduced as the population never got the learning to unlock the system hence it was never activated.
As Travis Tate explains in some datapoint, Hades was created to re-destroy/reset the world in case something gone wrong during terraforming. But, simulation shows that Gaia doesn't like it when Hades tries to reset the world. Thus Travis create a mechanism to make Gaia to give up control to Hades until the 'reset' process is done and Gaia could re-terraform again. My theory is: Something actually gone wrong before event in HZD, GAIA system detects it and automatically activate Hades. But Gaia, being love life too much or maybe considering that the last batch of human embryo has already released, tried to stop hades by destroying herself. But Hades, as with any other Gaia subfunction, is very determined and escaped. Something is wrong, maybe there are an unseen plaque of nanomachines.
I think the answer is fairly simple, Gaia was forbidden from making herself known to the new generation of Mankind until certain levels of maturity and sophistication had been attained by the reborn Humans. These thresholds could easily be crossed by passing certain tests generated by Apollo, and not necessarily in the first generation. First would be introduction that she exists. Only much later as the new civilization takes root, grows in population and strength, and eventually passes whatever test to prove they are wise enough (culturally and technologically) would Gaia/Apollo would teach them how to take over the terraforming operations. Then, slowly, she would reveal locations of various terraforming sites, allowing us to take over operations a bit at at time. Finally, once the gradual transfer of power was complete and terraforming safely being managed by the new Human society, would Gaia reveal all remaining facilities. The ultimate goal of Gaia, after all, is to make herself obsolete, so Humanity can reclaim its destiny and rightful mastery of Earth. We can hope that future generations of our reborn species would venerate Gaia and she would bask happily for many centuries in the glow of her victory and new family.
You know sometimes Gaia sounds a bit like GLaDOS. Would be a trip if they made Hades the same voice actor as GLaDOS (I believe it was the same woman who voiced Overwatch AI in Half Life 2), and would promise Sylens cake for completing the tasks, but then try to murder him. Maybe deep in those cauldron facility is a cake...
Ted Faro deleted Apollo to keep people in the dark so a high lvl "omega clearance" directive to Gaia forbidding contact would be something he would do.
The protocols that govern gaia in regards to the nora are there most likely to prevent the nora from worshipping the AI as a god. This protocol would most likely not apply to properly educated people, that would see gaia for what she is. If all had gone to plan, it is amost certain that gaia would have to train the humans to take over the terraforming process.
I think the high level directives were put in place by Ted Faro to prevent her from teaching humans a higher level of knowledge. After all what would the point be of purging apollo if they could just walk into a gaia facility and learn things directly from her like history and calculus? That would have put a huge wrench in his plan to become an all powerful undying god over the children of eluthia.
In the case of gaia's high level directive of not communicating with the tribes. i think if zero dawn had worked properly and humanity slowly started accumulating the knowledge needed to handle the system, she would reveal her self to the most capable to turn over the keys. Until then gaia was to hold the keys to the system until humanity matured to that point. Since it didn't work out and humanity didn't have the knowledge of apallo to assume the roles to take over the terraforming projects. She could not speak to the tribes or let alone give them the keys to handle the system. it makes since if you think about it like that, why would you give the keys to your car to a toddler and expect them to drive it you wouldn't you'd keep the keys and keep driving
I've just realice something, Minerva is the only sub function that has a Roman name, the other sub functions AND Gaia are Greek, what could be the reason for that?
Well, it does not make any sense why was Gaia forbidden to communicate with new generations. Actually, if Gaia would be allowed to communicate with new generations, we would not have any game to play. In the end, new people were ment to take control on teraforming system, so Gaias existence would be revealed. My opinion however is, that Apollo was there to communicate with new generations and to educate them. With Apollo Gaia actually lose her tool how to communicate with the world.
You make amazing videos but frankly I disagree with this analysis. I have some thoughts of my own about whether Gaia is needed and I have wondered why Gaia would be forbidden from communicating with tribal societies. But recently this thought came to me. Apollo was designed to withhold particular information until the population in the cradle facilities had been sufficiently educated, until they had "levelled up" as Apollo's alpha put it. It's reasonable to assume that one such piece of information was the existence of Gaia. Perhaps she was not allowed to communicate with them until they reached this level of understanding. Perhaps the alphas thought that, to children, Gaia might seem too complex and mysterious to understand or even frightening and intimidating. And if they were told about Gaia and her mission they would have to know about the Faro Plague, something perhaps too horrible for them to withstand might traumatise them, possibly make them fearful of the outside world or technology. Let us assume that Gaia was forbidden from communicating with them but only until they successfully reached a certain level of education, one that would be registered by Apollo. With Apollo purged, this of course never happened. And so the reason she never spoke to the people of Aloy's world was not because of a desire to maintain her eternal secrecy or that they are too young or even to primitive. But because the "locks" on her protocols could only be unlocked through Apollo. The tribes may in fact be ready to meet her in the game but again, unless they graduated through Apollo it simply has no effect. The other reason why such protocols may exist simply because people believe that primitive cultures should not be interfered with, much like how there are laws preventing modern man from communing with remote tribes in the rainforest. But given what's happened, I think this was a stupid idea. As to whether the world still needs Gaia, it was stated that humanity was meant to take control of the terraforming system one sufficiently educated, which never happened. Gaia stated that without her to govern the system it would break down, causing the end of all life on earth. To me, these two statements suggest that Gaia was simply incapable of fully restoring the world on her own. For some reason, she needed humans to help her finish the job. It seems to me, that while Gaia did indeed shut down the swarm, clean and reseed the planet with plant and animal life, for some reason she could not stabilise it. Despite her best efforts, the planet's ecosystem still needed her and her machines to keep it from falling apart. Hypothetically, once humanity took over the terraforming system they would be able to do what Gaia couldn't and "seal the deal." It seems to me that a fully educated human population was the last and vital component of the terraforming system. But without Apollo, none of this happened. And so, centuries after the recreation of humanity, the stability of the ecosystem is still dependent on Gaia. Thus with her destruction, the world was thrown into peril again. And thanks to Ted Faro, no one knew how to repair her or even that she ever existed. Ironically, "the man who saved the world" may have destroyed it... twice. So does the world still need Gaia? In my opinion, I can give you a definite yes.
The humans were let out. She was supposed to perfect the whole teraformation system first and have thing perfectly stable LONG before she let the humans out... but then the facilities where they were at started having malfunctions and other problems which forced her to begin gestating them, and then those born in the cradle facilities who SHOULD have been the first generation learning to be awesome to take the reigns... didn't have Apollo to teach them anything. They ended up staying in the facilities until food stores were used up. The problem is theres not enough Humans stored to start again, and the facilities which they came out of are mostly in ruins. If Hades does his job this time, then Humanity dies. Plain and simple.
i think the tribal intervention protocols were put in by ted faro at the same time he destroyed apollo, remember his idea was to have mankind be 'innocent' and free to make its own new mistakes (though likely the reason reason is he wanted his role in the end of the world forgoten) so by preventing gaia from comunicating with the people he prevented her from attemting to take applo's place, because even without appolo's databases, gaia herself would still have more thene nough knowledge and ability to do so, and indeed might have been able to even rebuild appolo on her own if not prevented from doing so...that she didnt means someone or some thing prevented it.
the humans born in the cradle facilities weren't primitive by default, and wouldn't have been considered to be by the alphas. they would have been no different than the next generation born had the plague not destroyed the world, children that would learn about their world through an educational system, guided daily by 'parental units'. they would have pretty much picked up where the world left off, in that first generation. though they would need to rebuild the physical trappings of civilization, there's no reason they would have had to experimentally re-learn everything that was already known over multiple generations. there's no reason that gaia would have been frightening to them, any more than an ipad is frightening to modern kids, so there would really be no reason that she would need to hide herself away. i always felt that once her job was done, she would just fade out of human memory, whether she was ever turned off or not, she would just reach irrelevance. we only have primitive tribes in game now because faro went in and screwed everything up so no one in the future would know that he's the bad guy in all this.
In another video game... Mass Effect Andromeda... Nakmor Drack says the following paraphrased statement to Sara: "Parents are the starting line, where you go from there is all on you." Aloy was genetically engineered to be a carbon copy of Elisabet Sobek, but with enhanced physical capabilities. Coupled together with the thirteen years of training that she received from Rost she became a formidable independent woman. Perhaps that is why so many players think of her as a Mary Sue. Moreover, if you pay attention to her dialogue and interactions with others you will notice a considerable amount of influence from Rost, and how cryptic he was. Anyway, that is how I look at it... and I have nearly a thousand hours of game time on PC.
Hello everyone, SPOILER ALERT about Hfw ‼️⚠️ Does anyone who watched a Let's Play or either played Hfw think about the depressing thought that Gaia shared a similar fate like the Alphas? Think about it. The Alphas were killed by Faro not only not knowing if their whole plan of Zero Dawn would actually work but also believing that Apollos data was completely lost and that mankind would never be able to access that knowledge to learn about their history and most important about their greatest and worst mistakes of all time. Similar to that, Gaia died literally having a leap of faith in Elizabeth and her future to be born clone (when she destroyed herself) hoping that her clone, as we know Aloy, would be able to fix her and to rescue the world by destroying Hades. Gaia never saw her wish to be fulfilled since the "NEW" Gaia, a backup of hers, talked about the original Gaia as her "predecessor". Which means that Aloy does talk to Gaia but not the one, Elisabeth originally created and bonded with... No one seems to think about the fact, that the new Gaia is not the original one who had bonded with Elisabeth over their private conversations, but an installed backup also known as a copy with the same system and task to stabilise and watch over the biosphere. The question is, if the backup Gaia has all the conversations saved on her software since she knows about the original Gaia's word of faith in Elisabeth: "Through you all things are possible".
I have some level of idea that Gaia's systems would probably have been transferred to Mars or Venus once an Apollo-taught humanity clawed it's way back up the technological ladder far enough. If you have a purpose-built terraforming AI, you don't let it go to waste.
I think it far more likely that the high level directives were simply controls to prevent her from playing God before the humans were advanced enough to understand what she truly was. We can already see that Aloy's tribe would likely treat her as exactly this if they were to interact, and while Gaia may not have tried to leverage this, the creators probably weren't so sure and put this in as a directive to ensure she wouldn't.
I’ve always wondered (though this may be painfully obvious) if the humans who were released from the cradle facility due to food shortages went on to create the Karja sun religion. They talk about wanting to see the real sun in one of the data points and I thought perhaps their desire to see the sun could later become a religious level of interest.
Stephen Francis The carja once were part of the nora. There's a glyph talking about that.
As far as we know, the humans from the Cradle-9 facility were the ancestors of multiple tribes, the Nora and Carja tribes were sure.
But there's a reason for the Carja tribe's worship of the sun: according to the "Founding of Meridian" datapoint, the catalyst for the Carja tribe's formation was the discovery of "The Leaves of the Old Ones" by Araman, the 1st Sun-King. It'd be better to read it for yourself than hear it from me.
It's not just the Carja's sun-worship who's origins are in those holographic data-points. It's the Nora's as well. They called one of the multi-servitor's avatars "mother". The one who released them. She told them she will sleep and remember them all, and they will be brave and they will learn. Being remembered by All-Mother is the Nora mythology's equivalent of an afterlife heaven. Being "forgotten by All-Mother" is their Hell.
The Carja once belonged to the Nora tribe long ago. One day, a man named Araman discovered books from the old ones, and became fascinated with its technology and history. He showed this to the Nora tribe and some were fascinated while others were angry. The Nora leaders locked him out and the ones that followed in his footsteps . From there he went on to the land and created the carja.
@@arcni1213 There are many datapoints hid in the Holy Meridian, Walk in light my friend.
It's so good to find a channel that still makes Horizon Zero Dawn related content!
Sadly the only one
Well, its gonna pick up!!!
Great video as always! I do have 2 ideas on that "High level Directives" line though. One is that it could be another thing Ted Faro did after he killed the alphas and wiped APOLLO. Prevent the new peoples contamination by GAIA by letting her speak to them. Idea 2 is the one I prefer however and that is the fact that GAIA recognizes the humans in the outside world as tribal. This could mean that GAIA was directed not to have any interaction with the New humans until they had reached a sophisticated enough level of technological development for them to understand and not Deify GAIA. Sadly of course this hasn't happened yet so she remains silent
I really like your second idea, hadn't come at it from that angle. Hope we get more of these questions answered in the sequel!
Minor spoilers:
It’s also interesting that she can speak to some people in Forbidden West. Maybe that’s because the version of GAIA we meet is a blank slate that copied the data of the original GAIA
My hypothesis is that GAIA did not communicate with the Nora, as they did not reach the level in which they could be entrusted with knowledge of the terraforming system.
NovaClimaxX Since the directives exist, but the state of humanity 2.0 was not foreseen, the directives must be related to the functionality of Gaia if everything were "working as intended."
We know from Samina's holo in Deep Secrets of the Earth that Apollo's modules were designed to be gamified and that the inhabitants of Eleuthia facilities would "level up" their knowledge base.
We also know from the Artemis Status datapoint that the reintroduction of animal life beyond the pre-selected "pioneer organisms" was to be withheld until humanity 2.0 had shown it was capable of being ecologically responsible - at which point humans would take the reigns of Artemis and initiate the reintroduction of the remaining species.
So, taking those two things together, it seems reasonable to conclude that interface access with Gaia's systems has a specific "level requirement." And, since the tribal inhabitants do not meet that level requirement, Gaia isn't allowed to interface with them directly.
Just had an interesting thought: IF the Alphas had survived, they actually might have come to see the day that the plague was deactivated, as it took some 50 years for Gaia' sub function Minerva to break the codes, right? Assuming Gaia didn't have Minerva doing JUST that, and that she build the towers needed to broadcast that code as she worked to break the code, it is possible to assume that 50 years after Zero Dawn was complete, the signal was sent out and the plague definitely deactivated. Considering the Alphas were about 30-50 years of age (dunno exactly for each, I'm just assuming) and considering that advanced medical technology was available to them within Zero Dawn, it's possible they might have seen that fateful day and could even have emerged out into the world again, even if it was just in a survival suit. At least they would have seen SOME of their hard work rewarded...
They were supposed to continue working on Minerva so its very possible that they would have sped up the time table to cracking the Faro Plague’s encryption. The loss of the Alphas is horrifyingly sad just thinking about that alone.
As the saying goes, "The ultimate goal of parents is to make themselves obsolete."
The Sobek protocol would have been put in place well before Day Zero since the alphas didn’t have access to the cradles after the lockdown so Lisbeth did that at least a couple weeks beforehand. Whether this protocol was intended only as a failsafe or as something else it may be possible that Gaia had access to creating another Lisbeth at will. Because of the nature of the game though I think the protocol was hidden away from Ted (may he forever be fucked) juuuust in case he did an oopsie. It seems like that was all he was good for.
My understanding of the other subroutines was that they were semi-autonomous specifically to create another semi-AI that Gaia could talk to to determine if the newest iteration of the planet was ready for next steps and everything was functioning well. Hades being meant to kick in if things started going wrong and the planet couldn’t sustain human life means ‘he’ would have been the most active subroutine so its pretty easy to understand why ‘he’ became independent. If the Earth had been restored his purpose would have completely ended and he would have shut down. His AI simply didn’t want yo die. Andwasalsoinfestedwithtedfuckingfarosmindset.
In short, *fuck Ted Faro.*
Thanks for making these! HZD is one of the deepest stories I’ve ever delved into.
I thought of her protocols forbidding communication with the "tribal" inhabitants as something that would be lifted as they "level-up" their knowledge through Apollo in the original plan. And of course, since they never could do that with Apollo offline, she is still forbidden from communicating with them.
Your videos are just phenomenal, and I wish more people knew about them. Thank you for putting all of that time and effort into this.
Thanks so much Thalia! For smaller creators like myself this kind of support means a lot. Let me know if you have any more you'd like to see covered in an upcoming vid :)
do you ever find a series of videos and struggle to find which ones to watch first? yeah, I have that now. its one of the nicer problems to have.
I think Elizabeth Sobeck's description of her at the beginning of that introduction says everything about GAIA. "An Eternal Guardian" even if humanity has been restored and all knowledge dispensed she would have still been active regardless of the humans taking over her terraforming duties. My only guess at this point is that she will be vigilantly monitoring how the new humanity is progressing in terms of path of technological and ecological advancement (most likely through MINERVA). If she sees a path that leads directly to an extinction event GAIA would most likely initiate an intervention and GAIA being GAIA her nature will never be of a violent reaction nor will it involve loss of life (She had to be isolated from HADES since she will never allow even simulated plants to die while HADES was working). So yea GAIA's primary function is still the protection and progression of life even if humans took over her terraforming.
Man your stuff is so killer! Exactly what I was looking for. I just recently played and beat this game and at first I didn't pay attention to the story because at first it felt like Far Cry Primal and that was a mistake as watching your videos made me realize how much amazing story I missed on the beginning.
i would like to know more about the Oseram please
I think we can make that happen sooner than later :)
Erend is the worst major Horizon Character.
Sorry had to let that out.
MightyGalactus Why? I rather liked his mini character ark.
For a little insight into just how powerful GAIA, and by extension HEPHAESTUS, is:
If you are on a computer running a Windows OS, hit Ctrl+Alt+Del and go to the Task Manager. Switch tabs and scroll down until you see sections marked 'Background processes' and 'Windows processes'. Each one of the processes in those sections is a daemon. Notice how most consume less than 1% of the computer's processing power, and never above 5%?
HEPHAESTUS managed to pin CYAN to the wall with less than its metaphorical pinky finger. Now imagine how powerful GAIA must have been to manage and control nine such functions.
Thanks for putting that into tangible perspective. And, since she's an A.I that can feel... Imagine how terrified and hopeless she must've felt.
I get what you say about Gaia remaining a secret but If humans were to take an active role int the terraforming system, surely they could do that better if they understood it. I think it would have been better if Gaia could have communicated with the people, at least she could have told them somthing about the past and the job they were expected to do. I've never fully aproved of that star trek prime directive.
Another great video, as always! This is just a random question, but how did GAIA know that Elisabet's clone would be able to rebuild her after her self destruction? Surely she must know that APOLLO had been wiped from the system, so how did she know she would be able to be restored?
GAIA did not "Know." That was the best, if not only viable plan. She needed Elisabet genetic profile to access the protocols. I'm imagining that there were plans in place that would have maybe lead Aloy toward rebuilding GAIA, but Hades corruption probably made that not possible. Also Aloy should have been raised up in the tribe like the other children, and GAIA have studied the tribe. She can maybe predict how Aloy may turn out. It all come down to hope. GAIA "hoped" that it would work. Very human of her.
I personally think that this 'high level directive' of hers was part of the failsafes built for Apollo. Perhaps Gaia was not intended to reveal her own existence until she referred to within Apollo's education system. Apollo DID have multitudes of failsafes intended to reveal tech gradually to a growing population, so concealing Gaia's physical location may have been intended as a measure against people trying to gain control of terraforming systems before it was time to do so.
I imagine this would have been (partially, at least) intended to prevent factions from developing based on their proximity to vital terraforming functions. If, say... the Nora had developed into a warlike nation, having physical access to the brains of terraforming systems could have been disastrous.
Here's what to consider:
-GAIA would not be able to rebuild herself, which means someone else would have to rebuild her. She was expecting for all of her subordinate functions to be destroyed with her, meaning they would be unable to repair GAIA. Therefore, the only being with any chance of restoring GAIA was a human.
-GAIA's message indicates awareness of the Nora, as she referred to them as tribal. She knew that they didn't have the resources or understanding necessary.
-GAIA couldn't communicate with the tribal inhabitants, but she could certainly communicate with the Alphas of Zero Dawn, so a human with an Alpha's genetic code (a clone) would technically meet those requirements. An Alpha would also be able to access any necessary Zero Dawn facilities. A clone of Elisabet Sobeck would be the obvious choice.
-Elisabet Sobeck was curious by nature. That, combined with the unusual circumstances of the clone's birth, would push her to explore the Cradle facility and learn her purpose.
-I doubt that GAIA knew for sure whether it would work, but it was her only option. She also had a massive amount of faith in Elisabet.
MarioOnage64 she says in her message that aloy would be able to rebuild her after learning from the old facilities.
It was literally a Leap of Faith. Gaia literally believed in her Creator so much that when it came down to having no other options on the table she rolled the dice and prayed that her creator would beat the odds again.
I hope we see GAIA again in the future. I actually thought she was pretty cool, able to hold an almost organic conversation and showed signs of of sentience.
these videos are amazing! cant wait for the next
I interpret the high level directives to prevent the people from worshipping her, as they did with All Mother and as Ourea had done with Cyan.
I think the Derangement and the Faro Virus are one in the same. I would love to see a video about it.
They're not.
First of all, there was no "Faro Virus", just a glitch in the Chariot Line that severed the chain of command.
Second, The Derangement is HEPHAESTUS's response to humans hunting machines. Seeing humans as a threat to the terraforming system, as well as the flora and fauna of the world, it is creating more dangerous machines (and more aggressive machines) to discourage machine hunting, as well as cull the human population.
Wait a minute!!!!! Maybe the game we play IS the gamified learning system and APOLLO was never deleted and the whole world we see in the first game is just a lived fully immersive VR to bring each individual up to speed and that’s why the NPCs seem like NPCs!!!!
You deserve more subscribers!
i dont get it, why don't u have more views? Everyone who plays HZD needs to see your videos
comment at 3:29 in this clip. It states limited animals will be reintroduced to the world and the diversity will be added to only once humans have learnt how to have the correct balance of the ecosystem so does this mean that there are still animals to be reintroduced as the population never got the learning to unlock the system hence it was never activated.
As Travis Tate explains in some datapoint, Hades was created to re-destroy/reset the world in case something gone wrong during terraforming. But, simulation shows that Gaia doesn't like it when Hades tries to reset the world. Thus Travis create a mechanism to make Gaia to give up control to Hades until the 'reset' process is done and Gaia could re-terraform again.
My theory is: Something actually gone wrong before event in HZD, GAIA system detects it and automatically activate Hades. But Gaia, being love life too much or maybe considering that the last batch of human embryo has already released, tried to stop hades by destroying herself. But Hades, as with any other Gaia subfunction, is very determined and escaped.
Something is wrong, maybe there are an unseen plaque of nanomachines.
I think the answer is fairly simple, Gaia was forbidden from making herself known to the new generation of Mankind until certain levels of maturity and sophistication had been attained by the reborn Humans. These thresholds could easily be crossed by passing certain tests generated by Apollo, and not necessarily in the first generation. First would be introduction that she exists. Only much later as the new civilization takes root, grows in population and strength, and eventually passes whatever test to prove they are wise enough (culturally and technologically) would Gaia/Apollo would teach them how to take over the terraforming operations. Then, slowly, she would reveal locations of various terraforming sites, allowing us to take over operations a bit at at time. Finally, once the gradual transfer of power was complete and terraforming safely being managed by the new Human society, would Gaia reveal all remaining facilities. The ultimate goal of Gaia, after all, is to make herself obsolete, so Humanity can reclaim its destiny and rightful mastery of Earth. We can hope that future generations of our reborn species would venerate Gaia and she would bask happily for many centuries in the glow of her victory and new family.
I hope GAIA and Apollo Can be restored
REALLY hope we get a sequel. Id love to see Apollo restored.
You know sometimes Gaia sounds a bit like GLaDOS. Would be a trip if they made Hades the same voice actor as GLaDOS (I believe it was the same woman who voiced Overwatch AI in Half Life 2), and would promise Sylens cake for completing the tasks, but then try to murder him. Maybe deep in those cauldron facility is a cake...
Ted Faro deleted Apollo to keep people in the dark so a high lvl "omega clearance" directive to Gaia forbidding contact would be something he would do.
The protocols that govern gaia in regards to the nora are there most likely to prevent the nora from worshipping the AI as a god. This protocol would most likely not apply to properly educated people, that would see gaia for what she is. If all had gone to plan, it is amost certain that gaia would have to train the humans to take over the terraforming process.
I think the high level directives were put in place by Ted Faro to prevent her from teaching humans a higher level of knowledge. After all what would the point be of purging apollo if they could just walk into a gaia facility and learn things directly from her like history and calculus? That would have put a huge wrench in his plan to become an all powerful undying god over the children of eluthia.
In the case of gaia's high level directive of not communicating with the tribes. i think if zero dawn had worked properly and humanity slowly started accumulating the knowledge needed to handle the system, she would reveal her self to the most capable to turn over the keys.
Until then gaia was to hold the keys to the system until humanity matured to that point. Since it didn't work out and humanity didn't have the knowledge of apallo to assume the roles to take over the terraforming projects.
She could not speak to the tribes or let alone give them the keys to handle the system. it makes since if you think about it like that, why would you give the keys to your car to a toddler and expect them to drive it you wouldn't you'd keep the keys and keep driving
I've just realice something, Minerva is the only sub function that has a Roman name, the other sub functions AND Gaia are Greek, what could be the reason for that?
Gaia always reminds me of Gina Torres
Well, it does not make any sense why was Gaia forbidden to communicate with new generations. Actually, if Gaia would be allowed to communicate with new generations, we would not have any game to play. In the end, new people were ment to take control on teraforming system, so Gaias existence would be revealed. My opinion however is, that Apollo was there to communicate with new generations and to educate them. With Apollo Gaia actually lose her tool how to communicate with the world.
Ted Faro is a real disaster maker
You make amazing videos but frankly I disagree with this analysis. I have some thoughts of my own about whether Gaia is needed and I have wondered why Gaia would be forbidden from communicating with tribal societies. But recently this thought came to me.
Apollo was designed to withhold particular information until the population in the cradle facilities had been sufficiently educated, until they had "levelled up" as Apollo's alpha put it. It's reasonable to assume that one such piece of information was the existence of Gaia. Perhaps she was not allowed to communicate with them until they reached this level of understanding. Perhaps the alphas thought that, to children, Gaia might seem too complex and mysterious to understand or even frightening and intimidating. And if they were told about Gaia and her mission they would have to know about the Faro Plague, something perhaps too horrible for them to withstand might traumatise them, possibly make them fearful of the outside world or technology.
Let us assume that Gaia was forbidden from communicating with them but only until they successfully reached a certain level of education, one that would be registered by Apollo. With Apollo purged, this of course never happened. And so the reason she never spoke to the people of Aloy's world was not because of a desire to maintain her eternal secrecy or that they are too young or even to primitive. But because the "locks" on her protocols could only be unlocked through Apollo. The tribes may in fact be ready to meet her in the game but again, unless they graduated through Apollo it simply has no effect.
The other reason why such protocols may exist simply because people believe that primitive cultures should not be interfered with, much like how there are laws preventing modern man from communing with remote tribes in the rainforest. But given what's happened, I think this was a stupid idea.
As to whether the world still needs Gaia, it was stated that humanity was meant to take control of the terraforming system one sufficiently educated, which never happened.
Gaia stated that without her to govern the system it would break down, causing the end of all life on earth.
To me, these two statements suggest that Gaia was simply incapable of fully restoring the world on her own. For some reason, she needed humans to help her finish the job.
It seems to me, that while Gaia did indeed shut down the swarm, clean and reseed the planet with plant and animal life, for some reason she could not stabilise it. Despite her best efforts, the planet's ecosystem still needed her and her machines to keep it from falling apart. Hypothetically, once humanity took over the terraforming system they would be able to do what Gaia couldn't and "seal the deal." It seems to me that a fully educated human population was the last and vital component of the terraforming system.
But without Apollo, none of this happened. And so, centuries after the recreation of humanity, the stability of the ecosystem is still dependent on Gaia. Thus with her destruction, the world was thrown into peril again. And thanks to Ted Faro, no one knew how to repair her or even that she ever existed.
Ironically, "the man who saved the world" may have destroyed it... twice.
So does the world still need Gaia? In my opinion, I can give you a definite yes.
What were the "obvious reasons" Gaia couldn't allow Hades to reset Earth?
The humans were let out. She was supposed to perfect the whole teraformation system first and have thing perfectly stable LONG before she let the humans out... but then the facilities where they were at started having malfunctions and other problems which forced her to begin gestating them, and then those born in the cradle facilities who SHOULD have been the first generation learning to be awesome to take the reigns... didn't have Apollo to teach them anything. They ended up staying in the facilities until food stores were used up.
The problem is theres not enough Humans stored to start again, and the facilities which they came out of are mostly in ruins.
If Hades does his job this time, then Humanity dies. Plain and simple.
@@HimitsuHunter that's the single most useful comment ever. Thanks a lot.
i think the tribal intervention protocols were put in by ted faro at the same time he destroyed apollo, remember his idea was to have mankind be 'innocent' and free to make its own new mistakes (though likely the reason reason is he wanted his role in the end of the world forgoten) so by preventing gaia from comunicating with the people he prevented her from attemting to take applo's place, because even without appolo's databases, gaia herself would still have more thene nough knowledge and ability to do so, and indeed might have been able to even rebuild appolo on her own if not prevented from doing so...that she didnt means someone or some thing prevented it.
Hmmmm low views but pretty decent
the humans born in the cradle facilities weren't primitive by default, and wouldn't have been considered to be by the alphas. they would have been no different than the next generation born had the plague not destroyed the world, children that would learn about their world through an educational system, guided daily by 'parental units'. they would have pretty much picked up where the world left off, in that first generation. though they would need to rebuild the physical trappings of civilization, there's no reason they would have had to experimentally re-learn everything that was already known over multiple generations.
there's no reason that gaia would have been frightening to them, any more than an ipad is frightening to modern kids, so there would really be no reason that she would need to hide herself away. i always felt that once her job was done, she would just fade out of human memory, whether she was ever turned off or not, she would just reach irrelevance.
we only have primitive tribes in game now because faro went in and screwed everything up so no one in the future would know that he's the bad guy in all this.
In another video game... Mass Effect Andromeda... Nakmor Drack says the following paraphrased statement to Sara: "Parents are the starting line, where you go from there is all on you." Aloy was genetically engineered to be a carbon copy of Elisabet Sobek, but with enhanced physical capabilities. Coupled together with the thirteen years of training that she received from Rost she became a formidable independent woman. Perhaps that is why so many players think of her as a Mary Sue. Moreover, if you pay attention to her dialogue and interactions with others you will notice a considerable amount of influence from Rost, and how cryptic he was. Anyway, that is how I look at it... and I have nearly a thousand hours of game time on PC.
Same
You should do other games like the elder scrolls series
OK but why does everyone still speak English in this world and not some sort of futuer language created by there own cultures???
Did u played the game ? If u did u should know why they speak English
Hello everyone,
SPOILER ALERT about Hfw ‼️⚠️
Does anyone who watched a Let's Play or either played Hfw think about the depressing thought that Gaia shared a similar fate like the Alphas? Think about it. The Alphas were killed by Faro not only not knowing if their whole plan of Zero Dawn would actually work but also believing that Apollos data was completely lost and that mankind would never be able to access that knowledge to learn about their history and most important about their greatest and worst mistakes of all time.
Similar to that, Gaia died literally having a leap of faith in Elizabeth and her future to be born clone (when she destroyed herself) hoping that her clone, as we know Aloy, would be able to fix her and to rescue the world by destroying Hades.
Gaia never saw her wish to be fulfilled since the "NEW" Gaia, a backup of hers, talked about the original Gaia as her "predecessor".
Which means that Aloy does talk to Gaia but not the one, Elisabeth originally created and bonded with...
No one seems to think about the fact, that the new Gaia is not the original one who had bonded with Elisabeth over their private conversations, but an installed backup also known as a copy with the same system and task to stabilise and watch over the biosphere. The question is, if the backup Gaia has all the conversations saved on her software since she knows about the original Gaia's word of faith in Elisabeth: "Through you all things are possible".
I have some level of idea that Gaia's systems would probably have been transferred to Mars or Venus once an Apollo-taught humanity clawed it's way back up the technological ladder far enough. If you have a purpose-built terraforming AI, you don't let it go to waste.