I am a silent watcher and follower of your content for years. I don't remember, when I started watching, but I guess I have watched nearly everything of you. Keep up the fantastic work. You delivered so much good content and good mood in general, that you carried me through times of my live. Even now being a husband and dad, I consume everything from you with much joy. Sometimes when I'm on the go with my little son or when I get to sleep. Sometimes when I'm on my way to work. You are a part of my live. Just want to cheer for you after that long time. Thanks a lot David.
I’ve recently been right on the verge of posting a very similar comment. Point being that I second this sentiment and I’m sure I’m not the only one. 👍But since you’ve done the legwork for me, I’ll just summarize my version here. @David Lightbringer you’re the man, much thanks and much love, keep up the amazing work. I suspect that your contribution to society is far greater than you’d guess. 🥳
Also have never commented and also have been thoroughly and repeatedly enjoying David's work. I'd even go so far as to say he's educated and enlightened me to just how complex and dynamic and interesting writing can be. I appreciate GRRM so so so much more and I find David's writing, cadence and overall production impressive and inspiring. Thank you so much, man.
Im the kind of person to compulsively leave comments even if I know I probably shouldn't 😁. Having a family must be really nice though and i can see it taking time. Makes it even more important to remember the other things you love and to enjoy them in balance with your familial duties
I’ve loved this whole ironborn series. The way that all of the nearby cultures mixed together to create something new is such a realistic depiction of how real-world cultures develop. The rock kings/kings of the rock all being miners was such a good find that I had never considered but makes PERFECT sense. Always love your videos!
You know, going back and giving this a second listen through, and considering the way different grim reaper symbols are scattered around a region... I'm just struck with the image of what a skelly would look like if like, idk, a big rock from the sky hit it. The bones would go flying and be scattered in the same way the islands look broken up. Seems like an extra layer of symbolism that popped out at me.
The connection with the Banefort and the Westerlands is just genius. Amazing work that just blows my mind. Even the migration pattern being from Kayce into what would later be the Iron Islands is a terrific insight as when I first read about the Goodbrother cadet house there I was thinking in terms of them coming FROM the Iron Islands during one of the raids and just deciding to settle there and now my entire view is much more whole thanks to you and Tim. Beautiful work you guys. No one does it better and is able to put the pieces together like this
Incredible analysis of the text my dude! Check this quote out on Garth green hand: “how to raise crops and reap the harvest. (In some tales, he tried to teach the elder races as well, but the giants roared at him and pelted him with boulders, whilst the children laughed and told him that the gods of the wood provided for all their needs).” Umm pelted (like a fur pelt) with boulders (meteors) 😮
Thank god for more ironborn lore videos, I shrimply cannot get enough of these. I’m not even squidding you, they’ve got their tendrils tied up in so much.
This vid came at the perfect time. Knew I’d have sensory overload from the work xmas party so I saved it to watch now I’m home it’s quiet, dark, safe. Anyone else here self soothing?
56:06 Now that you mention Valyria not existing yet, I wonder what the peninsula was like before all the dragonlords showed up. Was it relatively peaceful, minus the volcanoes? Did dragons already live there or did they come from the Shadowlands like we're told? Did the 14 Flames even exist prior or were they (and I guess still are) the physical Fire center of the world? Much like the Lands of Always Winter would be the physical Ice center. Maybe the Rhoyne was the physical Water center, and the Isle of Faces was the Earth center. Edit: to me, the most Squisher symbolism seems to be in places that likely were either directly hit by or were severely affected by the Moon Meteor impacts. The Iron Islands, the Thousand Islands, Asshai, and I'd say the Narrow Sea because it seems like the whole stretch has Squisher symbolism. Off the top of my head, Patchface gets Patchfaced in the Narrow Sea, but then there's the Crab Feeder who gave people to crabs on beaches in an almost sacrificial way. It's INCREDIBLY similar to your theory that the Seastone Chair was left on the beach by the Squishers for sacrifices to be placed upon, and also incredibly similar to the First Men and Wildlings placing human sacrifices to the Others inside the open mouths of Weirwood Hart Trees. Maybe the Others and Squishers are related in some way and that's why the Others seem so completely alien, even for ASoIaF. Or maybe the Squishers themselves had something to do with the destruction of one of the moons and their direct interference with their water magic was what helped create the Others. Like you said, the Deep Ones might be placing oily black stone monuments in places that they were going to destroy, so maybe the destruction of the moon and the oily black stone monument targets were the original plan for the Squishers to try to conquer the world. Or, possibly my favorite idea of them all, the Squishers and the Children of the Forest cut a deal of some kind and created the Others as a direct response to the Bloodstone Emperor's/Night's King's destruction of the moon, using Squisher water magic, CotF nature magic, and the magic of the meteors themselves to create a weapon to destroy humanity. Only the Others turned on all life instead of just humans and forced the Children to work with humanity to end the Long Night somehow while the Squishers could just retreat into the seas and not even worry about it
@@MrFredstt I dont remember who says it but you are correct, I think it was a R'hlorrist. They also said it was people from the Shadowlands outside Asshai that taught the Valyrians how to tame dragons
Great to see the rest of the discussion. Another association for House Drumm - drums are often used by shamanic cultures and other magic practitioners like Candomble, Santeria etc. to facilitate contact with the unseen realms. Wonder if drumming was part of the Drowning ritual, Deep One summoning or random everyday necromancy.
I’m so glad you guys did this, I read a lot of Lovecraft all the time he’s my favorite horror author- noticed all these very obvious references GRRM worked in, but you guys really sat down and worked out the whole coherent theory around it and it’s freakin brilliant. Well done indeed.
So I think it was in this stream that you mentioned the har prefix in iron born names. Made me think of har in Hebrew which means mount. Like a mountain not a horse. Which is how you get Armageddon being the sight of the battle in revelation. Har Megiddo. I think it’s interesting since harrenhall seems like a prime location for the battle of the dawn. Also not being able to sow makes me think of Cain. Perhaps the ironborn committed some act that condemned the land. If that’s true house goodbrother could also be a reference to that.
Drumm can mean lump of wood (German) or valley/down (Gaelic) Edit slang for a crowded location or lodging house. Can also mean teaching by constant repetition. Can mean dismissal
In the scandinavian languages bane is tied to killing. Bane man, Bane wound. Or just bane.These are things that kill you. The bane of so and so. So bane king is straight up the killer king - to it tie it even more to death and reaper culture.
The name morgon could also be a reference to Morgon of Hed, from the riddle master trilogy. The riddle master trilogy is full of inspiration to Asoiaf. Morgon of hed leads and army of the dead, battles changlings from the sea, uses magic to turn into animals and even trees, and battles a dark psycic power, eventually taking on his destiny as the high one a high king whos magically tied to the land he rules. The children of the forest are also inspired by the riddle master as well as the citadel and order of the maesters and its influnce on asoiaf also heavily supports the theory of the maester conspiracy. I'd love to share more about the riddle master trilogy because its a huge important key to deciphering asoiaf that as far as I know is totally overlooked bynthe Fandom.
LmL and GreyWaste saving the best for last! This is fantastic. A tidbit to further sync Arthurian and reaper stuff: Morgan le Fey is often treated as a human aspect of the Morrigan, a sometimes-triple pyschopomp who washes the clothes of those soon to die in battle in the river. So you’re spot on about Morgan Banefort having drowned man thralls-he could easily be pulling corpses from the river or shore.
I know this is months old, but I'm only now catching up with it, and am very thrilled to hear someone reference the Kingdom of the Isles as the inspiration for the Iron Islands. Most people see the Iron Islanders and think 'vikings,' and stop there, as Scottish history is pretty obscure really, for most people. (This is accentuated by the show giving everyone english accents - it really led to most people associating the historical precedents only with anglo history, which is a shame, but that's another issue.) The thing about the K.o.t.Isles, is that it fits even better with the theory here, as the western isles weren't really that isolated or unpopulated at the time - they were a fully integrated part of the wider Gaelic world of the west coast of Britain and Ireland with plenty of people living on them. When the norsemen came they seem to have eradicated the locals on some of the smaller islands, but ultimately they *assimilated* with the local culture and the eventual outcome a few hundred years later was that the Kingdom was a 'Norse-Gaelic,' merged culture. (By the time of the main story, incidentally, the Islanders are in a very similar place to the Kingdom in later medieval times, in their relationship to the mainland - uncomfortably integrated and nostalgic for their ancient independence and 'old ways'.) In other words the 'mariners,' came and integrated with the indigenous 'first men,' (celtic/gaelic) culture - just like the iron islanders. I don't see any way you're not 100% right about this, understanding what a huge history nerd GRRM is. Love it, Dave and TIm.
Wow.. just wow!! That connection between the Sea Stone Chair and The Weirwood being sacrificial alters got me so wired! And btw, Atlantis was supposedly sunken by 3 separate cataclysms over thousands of years, it is known!
I don't know how likely you are to ever see a comment on a month old video, but there are a few things that you may or may not already know about that I wanted to point out because they seem relevant - even if only tangentially so. Firstly on the map you showed of places that the vikings used as "bases" to raid from, one that stood out most to me was Strathclyde, which is most notable for Clyde Rock (AKA Dumbarton Rock, or Dumbarton Castle). Clyde Rock is a fortification ontop of (and through) a mountain island of volcanic basalt. It has the longest recorded history of any stronghold in Scotland. Now that all sounds pretty familiar, doesn't it? The second thing I wanted to mention is the potential link between the Seastone Chair and the Stone of Scone. The Stone of Scone was a block of red sandstone that was used in the crowning ceremony of Scottish Monarchs, until it was stolen by the English (who else?). The symbolism of this act is pretty straight forward - "we have the thing that you use to make kings, therefore you can no longer make your own kings". This was the first thing that jumped to mind when you were talking about the Seastone Chair being found on Wyk (the potential capital of the Seafaring Culture) and taken to Pyke (the potential capital of the Reaper Culture). I think it could have been a similar attempt by the Reapermen to remove the Seafarer's ability to have a king. Lastly when you mentioned the Elder Brother, a priest living on a "Holy Isle" the first thing that comes to my mind is Lindisfarne (AKA Holy Island), a tidal island in Northumberland which was considered a holy place to the celts had a monastery built upon it that was destroyed by viking invaders (the real world inspiration for the Ironborn). I don't think this particular connection tells us anything new, but it's interesting to see the parralels and George's inspirations. Maybe you already knew about this stuff, maybe you mention it later in the video, maybe you never see this comment on an old video, but I thought I'd mention this stuff just in case.
Thank you so much for editing streams into videos! I live in Europe and you’re usually live 3am my time. I sometimes watch whole streams afterwards, but it makes me really conscious that I’m not being able to chat, which is of course a bummer. I know this must be a lot of work but please know it’s much appreciated!!! Also, your theories & analysis is totally phd level literature studies. Keep up the great work!
About Doggerland - there was a theory that it sunk due to a massive tsunami after a massive underwater landslide off the coast of Norway. The theory was completely disproven only recently, but the original kinda sounds like Hammer of the Waters - huge earthquake causing a landslide which in turn caused tsunami.
Hello.....long time Deep Ones stalker and LML fan. I'm a patron member, but I haven't joined here. I can't attend the live streams because of work/life conflicts, but I wanted you to know I'm here. I listen to your videos at night when I'm stressed, at work when I'm charting (and shouldbeworking) , while doing housework......ect. Thank you for your very thoughtful, in-depth and well thought out videos! I really appreciate your detailed analysis of the books as well as your general outlook on life and all things Thrones. Thanks again for all your hard work!
Great job Dave and Tim! Fell asleep watching this last night and watched it all through again today in bit and pieces, so look at it this way: you get two and three times the watch time out of some of us...🤣
Whoooo! Finally! I fell asleep watching this stream and went back to watch it the next day and finish up and it was gone. Thought I was never going to have closure. Thanks David, sorry about the RUclips BS. I see you put a lot of work into editing it, it's appreciated.
Regarding going to battle with thralls: In actual history, people held in forced servitude would not be armed. If they had arms, they'd turn them against their masters, and everybody knew that. So, going to battle with thralls implies some kind of magical bondage.
Not entirely true, ancient Greeks, Persians and Egyptians all provided limited arms to slaves who were utilized during war. Spartans notoriously were cruel masters to large numbers of slaves (way larger than the population of spartan citizens) and their armies were MOSTLY slaves in some battles. Never underestimate the cruel effect of subjugation to crush the hope for freedom. Also, the Unsullied exist in the universe and are slaves and a mercenary army existing for a long time lol. Elite training and fully armed slave soldiers
No that's not true at all. There's a lot of real world historical examples of slave armies (Mamluks, Janisarry) and within the context of ASOIF there's the Unsullied.
Mate, really feeling your frustrations with RUclips's inscrutable algorithm and monetisation rulings. Was keenly looking forward to this final part over the past two weeks. About to find myself a dark room and just listen to the findings. All the best.
O can totally get behind the idea that the First Men walked to Pike (when it was a Peninsula). I can also get behind Pike being pre-Long Night. Those points make a lot sense to me.
Excellent breakdown once again. I watched this during breaks of clearing and cleaning out my basement. I guess over a certain age, the New Year's Eve holiday weekend is not just the same.
Thinking the salt and rock kings could also be a nod to the indo european twin/brother kings. Remulos and Romolus, Hengest and Horsa, Hrothgar and Helgi (who were king of land and king of the sea respectively).
Bane is also the name of a Lawful Evil god in DnD. He is the God of darkness, tyranny, violent despotism, and cruel leadership. He also is part of an evil God group known as "The Dead Three", who work together to curse the world. No telling if GRRM follows dnd lore but it's definitely possible.
I'm starting my first "real" job in Januar after finishing College this year, so I've been trying to fix my messed up sleep schedule and go to bed before 12 p.m. for the last seven days. It's 23:52 where I live right now, but you can be damn sure I'm gonna watch this whole 1,5 h video, and watch all of it, now. I'm too invested in this series. I'm just too deep into this to turn back now.
So this livestream and series of videos is excellent, and caused me to skim through Merlin, the Arthurian character, and the etymology of his name on Wikipedia and my my…apparently: when Geoffrey of Monmouth was latinizing certain bits of what became the Arthurian legend, he chose to latinize “Myrddin” as “Merlinus” instead of what scholars would expect, “Merdinus”. It is suggested that he did this because ‘Merlin’ (and whatever it is cognate with in Brythonic) is not a name but an adjective, and therefore, it is likely the character should be referred to instead as “The Merlin”. I wonder if that is the idea that spawned the wider web of word associations for Martin, and others like it found within the Iron Islands, inclusive of “The Merlyn”.
Commenting now for the algorithm, I shall be watching as I drive and grocery shop. Thanks for your hard work David I've been catching up but I'm finally here and current, praise Garth!
Love this. But you HAVE to watch The Company of The Cat's videos on House Hightower and House Lannister, preferably before your next video! They don't 100% line up with what you're saying, but the Hightower one brings up Arthurian legends, Iron Born, and your recent videos have made me consider some of what she said differently, and I think they can both be wound up together really interestingly. Also, the Lannister one, not as relevant as the Hightower one, but she suggests that Lann the Clever was the son of Rowan Goldtree and Corlos Casterly, which is very interesting, and I'd love to see if your Iron Born thoughts can fit into that. Those vids are very early on her channel, I think the 2nd and 5th videos ever. She is very worth a watch. You made me see the whole series differently, and then she went and changed things I'd not really thought about and made some things make sense that I can't even explain. 100% recommend. Also, loving all this Iron Born content.
I'll have a look, people keep mentioning that channel... the one of hers I watched was denying the existence of the Deep Ones, though, so that's obviously wrong and not a good way to earn my regard hahahaha. I'll check out the Casterly thing, but I def think Lann is from somewhere else.
Necromancy does have an associating with drumming to motivate the movement of the undead. This happens in the Dresden Files, but I’m sure it has a historical/mythological origin, probably connected with shamanic drumming.
33:20: I disagree here. "We do not sow" does not at all mean "we do not reap". No, rather the opposite; it is a proud statement of "we let others do the hard work of tending to fields and steal the literal fruits of their labour". To reap without sowing is to steal, to plunder, to reave. Further, reaving and reaping are not synonymous even though they share some etymological roots. I think the scythe fits well and even emphasises "We do not sow", because "We only reap." It is also a refutation of the old "you reap what you sow", again, explicit declaration of piracy. Also 1:24:00 when the Ironborn choose a new king, it might also be possible that the king's seat would be Pyke, while their family retain their original castle as well (like Robert Baratheon and Storm's End). The Greyjoys would remain stewards of the castle, something they already were during Aegon's Conquest
@DavidLightbringer If the squishers do have telepathic abilities as you've suggested, squisher DNA could explain the Ironborne skin changing abilities. Just as Children of the Forest or Greenman DNA likely accounts for First Men skin changing on the mainland.
Woah, thx 4 all ur splendid archeological work. The ironborn were always an enigma to me, but u 2 cracked the case open so nicely, that it all makes sense now! All ur hard work over the years payed off! U have such a deep understanding of the multitude of layers of this story and also improved immensely in presenting it in a logical and coherent way. I'm deeply impressed 👏👏👏♥️♥️♥️
I wish I could like this twice. I'm always happy with your videos but I've been awaiting a video like this where you connect the dots from beginning to end.
Heard a theory Westeros was an out post of the Empire of the Dawn, we have myths of dragons in Westeros before Aegon Targaryen or any Targaryen, stories of Dragon blades maybe it was like Trade port for the Empire, The Valerians were Shepard's before becoming Dragon lords, mayhaps even the Dragons and Meteors have something in common, Dragons are possibly in the shadow lands , Great channel keep up the amazing work love to hear you're theories and deep discussions on everything A song of ice and fire
Ps I was going to link the sea stone chair and Old town, or possibly an Old town like fortress on one of the Iron Isles, that it was linked to the empire of the Dawn as was house Dayne and Stark
@@DavidLightbringer Your channel and Talking Thrones are the only two a Song of ice and fire theory channels I subscribe to, I have watched many other channels but the two of you , You can tell your love for the source materials, The information you give and the in-depth discussions are just amazing and I feel like after watching one of your videos I have learned more myself, I think of myself as a big fan ,but nothing compares to what you do, I will watch your videos on the Empire of the Dawn, I may have already and that's why I mentioned it and thank you ,I know how much work goes into making these videos and you do a fantastic job
It's possible that if the Iron Islands were volcanic, it might have been motivation for dragonlords from Ancient Asshai to move there. You cannot move with your entire family via dragons, you need to use ships, the way Aenar Targaryen moved to Dragonstone from Valyria. Maybe the sea dragon that the Grey King killed was in some kind of civil war in which a dragon had to be brought down.
Alright, so now I'm officialy addicted to Ironborn lore, and it's all your fault. Jokes aside, I hope you soon reach 100 K subs, you deserve it, and more.
There's actually a deleted scene in The Seventh Seal - instead of Max Von Sydow challenging Death to a game of chess, they have a pillow fight. Turns out you should never challenge Death to a game of chess, because of the reaper cushions.
I have no clue how Dave and Tim missed this when discussing the name of Pyke, and "whether it is named for the fish or the weapon", but the fish is named for the weapon. So the symbolism for the river and the weapon are at hand for either interpretation.
I thought the cadet branch of goodbrother was on orkmont not harlaw? My theory was always since goodbrother and Greyjoy were the two finalists for lord paramount, Greyjoy won but goodbrother was given the hoares old castle for a cadet house to appease them.
1:03:10 History of Helgoland in the North Sea (Northwest of Doggerbank/Doggerland) : The island was mined for chalk, which weakened the connection between the main island (red chalk rock about 20 metres high) and the Düne (dune, a sandy island). Due to tides and severe weather events, the connection was eventually broken, so now there are two Islands.
Absolutely love the ironborn series 🎉 the world building is honestly one of the best parts of the whole series. Maybe after the ironborn cow has been milked you can look at other cultures throughout the world and make individual videos for each one? It would be worth a lot of content if you’re ever looking for more ideas for videos series. As always, love your content and keep your head up not even RUclips can keep a good man down!!
thanks for the Iron Born content and mythos, you mentioned that they dont get the same amount of views but thats probably more due to the shows uninteresting portrayal and not the quality of your streams :)
If he takes the locations of viking settlements and on Ireland turns upside down and puts that on the Westerose map as he done before the Wexford and Cork settlements will line up with the iron isles.
Drumm reminds me of drumbs, usually made during this time with stretched and taut hide/leather as the drumhead. Necromancy and stretched, instrumentalized skin just clicks naturally for me.
I doubt you’ll see this but there is a type of ocean fish called a Drum Fish, Red Drum, Black Drum, that can be massive in size, and are called Drum because of the sound they make with the muscles of their swim bladder.
Here is a thing that is buging me. Why was the Seastone chair found on old wyk of all places. Why would the Deep ones but it there, since it would have been located in the in land parts of the Iron island landmass which wouldn't really make sence for them. Why wouldn't they placed it in Pyke or Harlaw instead as that was the place where the first men arrived to the area
@@DavidLightbringer I didn't word my argument all that well. I'm not sure that old wyk would have had a coast line, since it's likely that is was apart of great wyk and the land out east was probably connected to it so how can old wyk have a coast line
Thank you for your Ironborn series. They are normally the least favourite part of GRRM's story for me. However, you have reignited my interest. And am seeing them from a fresh perspective now. Appreciate it David.
I am a silent watcher and follower of your content for years. I don't remember, when I started watching, but I guess I have watched nearly everything of you. Keep up the fantastic work. You delivered so much good content and good mood in general, that you carried me through times of my live. Even now being a husband and dad, I consume everything from you with much joy. Sometimes when I'm on the go with my little son or when I get to sleep. Sometimes when I'm on my way to work. You are a part of my live. Just want to cheer for you after that long time. Thanks a lot David.
Well said, Mythfam.
I’ve recently been right on the verge of posting a very similar comment. Point being that I second this sentiment and I’m sure I’m not the only one. 👍But since you’ve done the legwork for me, I’ll just summarize my version here.
@David Lightbringer you’re the man, much thanks and much love, keep up the amazing work. I suspect that your contribution to society is far greater than you’d guess. 🥳
Also have never commented and also have been thoroughly and repeatedly enjoying David's work. I'd even go so far as to say he's educated and enlightened me to just how complex and dynamic and interesting writing can be. I appreciate GRRM so so so much more and I find David's writing, cadence and overall production impressive and inspiring.
Thank you so much, man.
Im the kind of person to compulsively leave comments even if I know I probably shouldn't 😁. Having a family must be really nice though and i can see it taking time. Makes it even more important to remember the other things you love and to enjoy them in balance with your familial duties
ditto!
"The Deep Ones don't really teach you anything except what it is to suffer"
The delivery on that line was just top tier
if I'm honest, it was in the original script, so I had it polished and ready to use heh heh
@@DavidLightbringer good writing stays good writing ✍
I have long felt that "what is dead may never die, but rises harder and stronger" sounds like a memory of wights
I’ve loved this whole ironborn series. The way that all of the nearby cultures mixed together to create something new is such a realistic depiction of how real-world cultures develop. The rock kings/kings of the rock all being miners was such a good find that I had never considered but makes PERFECT sense. Always love your videos!
You know, going back and giving this a second listen through, and considering the way different grim reaper symbols are scattered around a region... I'm just struck with the image of what a skelly would look like if like, idk, a big rock from the sky hit it. The bones would go flying and be scattered in the same way the islands look broken up. Seems like an extra layer of symbolism that popped out at me.
The connection with the Banefort and the Westerlands is just genius. Amazing work that just blows my mind. Even the migration pattern being from Kayce into what would later be the Iron Islands is a terrific insight as when I first read about the Goodbrother cadet house there I was thinking in terms of them coming FROM the Iron Islands during one of the raids and just deciding to settle there and now my entire view is much more whole thanks to you and Tim. Beautiful work you guys. No one does it better and is able to put the pieces together like this
Incredible analysis of the text my dude! Check this quote out on Garth green hand: “how to raise crops and reap the harvest. (In some tales, he tried to teach the elder races as well, but the giants roared at him and pelted him with boulders, whilst the children laughed and told him that the gods of the wood provided for all their needs).” Umm pelted (like a fur pelt) with boulders (meteors) 😮
oh that reminds me of Argoth Stone Skin
The ironborn content is like taco bell. I want it at 2am every night.
Thank god for more ironborn lore videos, I shrimply cannot get enough of these. I’m not even squidding you, they’ve got their tendrils tied up in so much.
This vid came at the perfect time. Knew I’d have sensory overload from the work xmas party so I saved it to watch now I’m home it’s quiet, dark, safe. Anyone else here self soothing?
safe space
56:06 Now that you mention Valyria not existing yet, I wonder what the peninsula was like before all the dragonlords showed up. Was it relatively peaceful, minus the volcanoes? Did dragons already live there or did they come from the Shadowlands like we're told? Did the 14 Flames even exist prior or were they (and I guess still are) the physical Fire center of the world? Much like the Lands of Always Winter would be the physical Ice center. Maybe the Rhoyne was the physical Water center, and the Isle of Faces was the Earth center.
Edit: to me, the most Squisher symbolism seems to be in places that likely were either directly hit by or were severely affected by the Moon Meteor impacts. The Iron Islands, the Thousand Islands, Asshai, and I'd say the Narrow Sea because it seems like the whole stretch has Squisher symbolism. Off the top of my head, Patchface gets Patchfaced in the Narrow Sea, but then there's the Crab Feeder who gave people to crabs on beaches in an almost sacrificial way. It's INCREDIBLY similar to your theory that the Seastone Chair was left on the beach by the Squishers for sacrifices to be placed upon, and also incredibly similar to the First Men and Wildlings placing human sacrifices to the Others inside the open mouths of Weirwood Hart Trees. Maybe the Others and Squishers are related in some way and that's why the Others seem so completely alien, even for ASoIaF. Or maybe the Squishers themselves had something to do with the destruction of one of the moons and their direct interference with their water magic was what helped create the Others. Like you said, the Deep Ones might be placing oily black stone monuments in places that they were going to destroy, so maybe the destruction of the moon and the oily black stone monument targets were the original plan for the Squishers to try to conquer the world. Or, possibly my favorite idea of them all, the Squishers and the Children of the Forest cut a deal of some kind and created the Others as a direct response to the Bloodstone Emperor's/Night's King's destruction of the moon, using Squisher water magic, CotF nature magic, and the magic of the meteors themselves to create a weapon to destroy humanity. Only the Others turned on all life instead of just humans and forced the Children to work with humanity to end the Long Night somehow while the Squishers could just retreat into the seas and not even worry about it
If Im not mistaken was Valyria not described as a bunch of sheep herders before all the dragon riders?
@@MrFredstt I dont remember who says it but you are correct, I think it was a R'hlorrist. They also said it was people from the Shadowlands outside Asshai that taught the Valyrians how to tame dragons
Great to see the rest of the discussion. Another association for House Drumm - drums are often used by shamanic cultures and other magic practitioners like Candomble, Santeria etc. to facilitate contact with the unseen realms. Wonder if drumming was part of the Drowning ritual, Deep One summoning or random everyday necromancy.
Drumming being part of the drowning ritual and/or summing deep ones would fit right in tbh. It would seem totally appropriate
I’m so glad you guys did this, I read a lot of Lovecraft all the time he’s my favorite horror author- noticed all these very obvious references GRRM worked in, but you guys really sat down and worked out the whole coherent theory around it and it’s freakin brilliant. Well done indeed.
So I think it was in this stream that you mentioned the har prefix in iron born names. Made me think of har in Hebrew which means mount. Like a mountain not a horse. Which is how you get Armageddon being the sight of the battle in revelation. Har Megiddo. I think it’s interesting since harrenhall seems like a prime location for the battle of the dawn. Also not being able to sow makes me think of Cain. Perhaps the ironborn committed some act that condemned the land. If that’s true house goodbrother could also be a reference to that.
Drumm can mean lump of wood (German) or valley/down (Gaelic)
Edit slang for a crowded location or lodging house. Can also mean teaching by constant repetition. Can mean dismissal
After the week I've had, it's such a comfort to have my myth fix. Thanks Dave!
In the scandinavian languages bane is tied to killing. Bane man, Bane wound. Or just bane.These are things that kill you. The bane of so and so. So bane king is straight up the killer king - to it tie it even more to death and reaper culture.
that makes banefort sound like Dreadfort
The name morgon could also be a reference to Morgon of Hed, from the riddle master trilogy.
The riddle master trilogy is full of inspiration to Asoiaf. Morgon of hed leads and army of the dead, battles changlings from the sea, uses magic to turn into animals and even trees, and battles a dark psycic power, eventually taking on his destiny as the high one a high king whos magically tied to the land he rules.
The children of the forest are also inspired by the riddle master as well as the citadel and order of the maesters and its influnce on asoiaf also heavily supports the theory of the maester conspiracy. I'd love to share more about the riddle master trilogy because its a huge important key to deciphering asoiaf that as far as I know is totally overlooked bynthe Fandom.
Yes i have been anticipating this video
LmL and GreyWaste saving the best for last! This is fantastic.
A tidbit to further sync Arthurian and reaper stuff: Morgan le Fey is often treated as a human aspect of the Morrigan, a sometimes-triple pyschopomp who washes the clothes of those soon to die in battle in the river. So you’re spot on about Morgan Banefort having drowned man thralls-he could easily be pulling corpses from the river or shore.
I know this is months old, but I'm only now catching up with it, and am very thrilled to hear someone reference the Kingdom of the Isles as the inspiration for the Iron Islands. Most people see the Iron Islanders and think 'vikings,' and stop there, as Scottish history is pretty obscure really, for most people. (This is accentuated by the show giving everyone english accents - it really led to most people associating the historical precedents only with anglo history, which is a shame, but that's another issue.)
The thing about the K.o.t.Isles, is that it fits even better with the theory here, as the western isles weren't really that isolated or unpopulated at the time - they were a fully integrated part of the wider Gaelic world of the west coast of Britain and Ireland with plenty of people living on them. When the norsemen came they seem to have eradicated the locals on some of the smaller islands, but ultimately they *assimilated* with the local culture and the eventual outcome a few hundred years later was that the Kingdom was a 'Norse-Gaelic,' merged culture. (By the time of the main story, incidentally, the Islanders are in a very similar place to the Kingdom in later medieval times, in their relationship to the mainland - uncomfortably integrated and nostalgic for their ancient independence and 'old ways'.)
In other words the 'mariners,' came and integrated with the indigenous 'first men,' (celtic/gaelic) culture - just like the iron islanders. I don't see any way you're not 100% right about this, understanding what a huge history nerd GRRM is. Love it, Dave and TIm.
thanks for the great comments and glad you enjoyed the video! And yeah it really seems like part of where he got the idea for the Ironborn
Wow.. just wow!! That connection between the Sea Stone Chair and The Weirwood being sacrificial alters got me so wired! And btw, Atlantis was supposedly sunken by 3 separate cataclysms over thousands of years, it is known!
Damn, first joke is such a banger I had to hit the comments immediately
I don't know how likely you are to ever see a comment on a month old video, but there are a few things that you may or may not already know about that I wanted to point out because they seem relevant - even if only tangentially so.
Firstly on the map you showed of places that the vikings used as "bases" to raid from, one that stood out most to me was Strathclyde, which is most notable for Clyde Rock (AKA Dumbarton Rock, or Dumbarton Castle). Clyde Rock is a fortification ontop of (and through) a mountain island of volcanic basalt. It has the longest recorded history of any stronghold in Scotland. Now that all sounds pretty familiar, doesn't it?
The second thing I wanted to mention is the potential link between the Seastone Chair and the Stone of Scone. The Stone of Scone was a block of red sandstone that was used in the crowning ceremony of Scottish Monarchs, until it was stolen by the English (who else?). The symbolism of this act is pretty straight forward - "we have the thing that you use to make kings, therefore you can no longer make your own kings". This was the first thing that jumped to mind when you were talking about the Seastone Chair being found on Wyk (the potential capital of the Seafaring Culture) and taken to Pyke (the potential capital of the Reaper Culture). I think it could have been a similar attempt by the Reapermen to remove the Seafarer's ability to have a king.
Lastly when you mentioned the Elder Brother, a priest living on a "Holy Isle" the first thing that comes to my mind is Lindisfarne (AKA Holy Island), a tidal island in Northumberland which was considered a holy place to the celts had a monastery built upon it that was destroyed by viking invaders (the real world inspiration for the Ironborn). I don't think this particular connection tells us anything new, but it's interesting to see the parralels and George's inspirations.
Maybe you already knew about this stuff, maybe you mention it later in the video, maybe you never see this comment on an old video, but I thought I'd mention this stuff just in case.
Thank you so much for editing streams into videos! I live in Europe and you’re usually live 3am my time. I sometimes watch whole streams afterwards, but it makes me really conscious that I’m not being able to chat, which is of course a bummer. I know this must be a lot of work but please know it’s much appreciated!!! Also, your theories & analysis is totally phd level literature studies. Keep up the great work!
About Doggerland - there was a theory that it sunk due to a massive tsunami after a massive underwater landslide off the coast of Norway. The theory was completely disproven only recently, but the original kinda sounds like Hammer of the Waters - huge earthquake causing a landslide which in turn caused tsunami.
Off topic for the video and GoT but if that theory was disproven what is the current theory for Doggerland?
@@MrFredstt Gradual sinking. I mentioned it because David spoke about it early in the video
Hello.....long time Deep Ones stalker and LML fan. I'm a patron member, but I haven't joined here. I can't attend the live streams because of work/life conflicts, but I wanted you to know I'm here. I listen to your videos at night when I'm stressed, at work when I'm charting (and shouldbeworking) , while doing housework......ect.
Thank you for your very thoughtful, in-depth and well thought out videos! I really appreciate your detailed analysis of the books as well as your general outlook on life and all things Thrones.
Thanks again for all your hard work!
cheers Lady Chloe, thank you!
Great job Dave and Tim! Fell asleep watching this last night and watched it all through again today in bit and pieces, so look at it this way: you get two and three times the watch time out of some of us...🤣
Whoooo! Finally! I fell asleep watching this stream and went back to watch it the next day and finish up and it was gone. Thought I was never going to have closure. Thanks David, sorry about the RUclips BS. I see you put a lot of work into editing it, it's appreciated.
Regarding going to battle with thralls: In actual history, people held in forced servitude would not be armed. If they had arms, they'd turn them against their masters, and everybody knew that. So, going to battle with thralls implies some kind of magical bondage.
ah great point
Not entirely true, ancient Greeks, Persians and Egyptians all provided limited arms to slaves who were utilized during war. Spartans notoriously were cruel masters to large numbers of slaves (way larger than the population of spartan citizens) and their armies were MOSTLY slaves in some battles.
Never underestimate the cruel effect of subjugation to crush the hope for freedom.
Also, the Unsullied exist in the universe and are slaves and a mercenary army existing for a long time lol. Elite training and fully armed slave soldiers
No that's not true at all. There's a lot of real world historical examples of slave armies (Mamluks, Janisarry) and within the context of ASOIF there's the Unsullied.
Watching these while drawings antiquity elves, dwarves and orcs just hits so hard.
Mate, really feeling your frustrations with RUclips's inscrutable algorithm and monetisation rulings.
Was keenly looking forward to this final part over the past two weeks. About to find myself a dark room and just listen to the findings.
All the best.
I really feel that the Ironborn are one of the most underrated people in Westeros, they have the most badass culture IMHO 🤷🏻♀️
Thank the Drowned God for another squisher video 🙌🏼💚🙌🏼
O can totally get behind the idea that the First Men walked to Pike (when it was a Peninsula). I can also get behind Pike being pre-Long Night. Those points make a lot sense to me.
I love this series. Both of your analyses are so thorough and convincing that I just see every stream as canonical now
Wow, this video seems very audience friendly and deserving of advertisements. Hopefully RUclips sees the potential
Pain misery and whatever their breeding practices are is a great line 😂
thank you thank you 🫡
Excellent breakdown once again. I watched this during breaks of clearing and cleaning out my basement. I guess over a certain age, the New Year's Eve holiday weekend is not just the same.
we're streaming for 4 hours tonight!
Thinking the salt and rock kings could also be a nod to the indo european twin/brother kings. Remulos and Romolus, Hengest and Horsa, Hrothgar and Helgi (who were king of land and king of the sea respectively).
oh okay I should have thought of that. "Goodbrother" and "leal eldest brother" suggest that
Absolutely love your videos! Gonna rewatch your whole Ironborn series on repeat, idc what RUclips says, you deserve it 😤
Was really pleased at the mention! Thanks guys!
💯💯💯 thanks again for your insight!!
Bane is also the name of a Lawful Evil god in DnD. He is the God of darkness, tyranny, violent despotism, and cruel leadership.
He also is part of an evil God group known as "The Dead Three", who work together to curse the world. No telling if GRRM follows dnd lore but it's definitely possible.
Also the symbol for Bane is a bloodied hand. And drumm is a dead hand with red background.
I'm starting my first "real" job in Januar after finishing College this year, so I've been trying to fix my messed up sleep schedule and go to bed before 12 p.m. for the last seven days. It's 23:52 where I live right now, but you can be damn sure I'm gonna watch this whole 1,5 h video, and watch all of it, now. I'm too invested in this series. I'm just too deep into this to turn back now.
appreciate you very much :)
So this livestream and series of videos is excellent, and caused me to skim through Merlin, the Arthurian character, and the etymology of his name on Wikipedia and my my…apparently: when Geoffrey of Monmouth was latinizing certain bits of what became the Arthurian legend, he chose to latinize “Myrddin” as “Merlinus” instead of what scholars would expect, “Merdinus”. It is suggested that he did this because ‘Merlin’ (and whatever it is cognate with in Brythonic) is not a name but an adjective, and therefore, it is likely the character should be referred to instead as “The Merlin”. I wonder if that is the idea that spawned the wider web of word associations for Martin, and others like it found within the Iron Islands, inclusive of “The Merlyn”.
he clearly is interested in the intersection of names and titles like that. "The Mance."
?p
Love when you two work together thank you
This is such a fun series. Yours and Tim's passion and enthusiasm really make the videos enjoyable and easy to consume so much of it. xx
Fabulous. Extremely plausible, everything falls into place.
Interesting how that happens innit?
Great stream, the ‘legal elder brother’ talk definitely seems like an ancient euphemism for the previous culture, terrific insights
thank you I found that to be very satisfying
Great stream. Fantastic work you've both done with the Ironborn videos! 👏👏👏👏
Lucifer Means Squisher! Can’t wait to watch this!
Not sure how I found the channel but your content always makes me think about asoiaf in a really cool way
Commenting now for the algorithm, I shall be watching as I drive and grocery shop. Thanks for your hard work David I've been catching up but I'm finally here and current, praise Garth!
Love this. But you HAVE to watch The Company of The Cat's videos on House Hightower and House Lannister, preferably before your next video! They don't 100% line up with what you're saying, but the Hightower one brings up Arthurian legends, Iron Born, and your recent videos have made me consider some of what she said differently, and I think they can both be wound up together really interestingly. Also, the Lannister one, not as relevant as the Hightower one, but she suggests that Lann the Clever was the son of Rowan Goldtree and Corlos Casterly, which is very interesting, and I'd love to see if your Iron Born thoughts can fit into that.
Those vids are very early on her channel, I think the 2nd and 5th videos ever. She is very worth a watch.
You made me see the whole series differently, and then she went and changed things I'd not really thought about and made some things make sense that I can't even explain. 100% recommend.
Also, loving all this Iron Born content.
I'll have a look, people keep mentioning that channel... the one of hers I watched was denying the existence of the Deep Ones, though, so that's obviously wrong and not a good way to earn my regard hahahaha. I'll check out the Casterly thing, but I def think Lann is from somewhere else.
@@DavidLightbringer Ah, not the best to start with! I'd definitely recommend starting from the start of the channel or the Hightower video
Thank you David and Tim ❤
Necromancy does have an associating with drumming to motivate the movement of the undead. This happens in the Dresden Files, but I’m sure it has a historical/mythological origin, probably connected with shamanic drumming.
This ironborn series has been awesome, big ups dude x
The whole idea of a comet hitting the land would not be unlike a sword in a stone.... Just thinking....
33:20: I disagree here. "We do not sow" does not at all mean "we do not reap". No, rather the opposite; it is a proud statement of "we let others do the hard work of tending to fields and steal the literal fruits of their labour".
To reap without sowing is to steal, to plunder, to reave. Further, reaving and reaping are not synonymous even though they share some etymological roots.
I think the scythe fits well and even emphasises "We do not sow", because "We only reap."
It is also a refutation of the old "you reap what you sow", again, explicit declaration of piracy.
Also 1:24:00 when the Ironborn choose a new king, it might also be possible that the king's seat would be Pyke, while their family retain their original castle as well (like Robert Baratheon and Storm's End). The Greyjoys would remain stewards of the castle, something they already were during Aegon's Conquest
“We do not sow…we reap”
Yeah i didn’t really agree with that part. Do ironborn during there raids not take crops because that’s farming?
@DavidLightbringer If the squishers do have telepathic abilities as you've suggested, squisher DNA could explain the Ironborne skin changing abilities. Just as Children of the Forest or Greenman DNA likely accounts for First Men skin changing on the mainland.
Looking forward to you getting a nice Silver Plaque for the New Year! Congrats on the well deserved success, keep it up!
THANK YOU, i have been obsessing over this and it all makes so much sense now.
Just engagin’ with the content here, Barnes.
Woah, thx 4 all ur splendid archeological work. The ironborn were always an enigma to me, but u 2 cracked the case open so nicely, that it all makes sense now! All ur hard work over the years payed off! U have such a deep understanding of the multitude of layers of this story and also improved immensely in presenting it in a logical and coherent way. I'm deeply impressed 👏👏👏♥️♥️♥️
this was so much fun to research tbh
@DavidLightbringer one could clearly tell 😁👍 I'm gonna send u a lil sth. via PayPal...
@DavidLightbringer btw, I'm gonna dip my toes into creating a YT channel soon too. Hope, it's gonna be fun!
Yeah I met Euron once, I eard he got a pinky sized tinker and shriveled bits for balls..Keep up the great work bruddah
And the prescription is More Ironborn videos!!!Love this!!!!!😂
The sea throne may be an alter it doesn't look comfortable to sit in
I wish I could like this twice. I'm always happy with your videos but I've been awaiting a video like this where you connect the dots from beginning to end.
Heard a theory Westeros was an out post of the Empire of the Dawn, we have myths of dragons in Westeros before Aegon Targaryen or any Targaryen, stories of Dragon blades maybe it was like Trade port for the Empire, The Valerians were Shepard's before becoming Dragon lords, mayhaps even the Dragons and Meteors have something in common, Dragons are possibly in the shadow lands , Great channel keep up the amazing work love to hear you're theories and deep discussions on everything A song of ice and fire
Ps I was going to link the sea stone chair and Old town, or possibly an Old town like fortress on one of the Iron Isles, that it was linked to the empire of the Dawn as was house Dayne and Stark
check out my playlist titled Great Empire of the Dawn, I am the originator of those theories 🫡🪄✨🌌
@@DavidLightbringer Your channel and Talking Thrones are the only two a Song of ice and fire theory channels I subscribe to, I have watched many other channels but the two of you , You can tell your love for the source materials, The information you give and the in-depth discussions are just amazing and I feel like after watching one of your videos I have learned more myself, I think of myself as a big fan ,but nothing compares to what you do, I will watch your videos on the Empire of the Dawn, I may have already and that's why I mentioned it and thank you ,I know how much work goes into making these videos and you do a fantastic job
It's possible that if the Iron Islands were volcanic, it might have been motivation for dragonlords from Ancient Asshai to move there. You cannot move with your entire family via dragons, you need to use ships, the way Aenar Targaryen moved to Dragonstone from Valyria. Maybe the sea dragon that the Grey King killed was in some kind of civil war in which a dragon had to be brought down.
Oh my god I just realised that I am probably the commentor you meantioned at the start of the video. That gave me a good laught
Long video or 'short', I don't care, I'll watch them all because they are always so interesting
I am a simple man, I see Lightbringer, or Ironborn, I click.
A comment for the gods of the algorithm
Thumb nail art is ruuuuuuthlesss
Title is ruuuuthhlessss
The Christopher walk-in meme
Ooooooo baby a triple
Always here for the Lovecraft inspired lore
Dave this is great and terrible timing as I'm finishing my coursework for the semester. Love listening but so distracted lol
congrats on actually making the ironborn interesting
Alright, so now I'm officialy addicted to Ironborn lore, and it's all your fault. Jokes aside, I hope you soon reach 100 K subs, you deserve it, and more.
There's actually a deleted scene in The Seventh Seal - instead of Max Von Sydow challenging Death to a game of chess, they have a pillow fight. Turns out you should never challenge Death to a game of chess, because of the reaper cushions.
I have no clue how Dave and Tim missed this when discussing the name of Pyke, and "whether it is named for the fish or the weapon", but the fish is named for the weapon. So the symbolism for the river and the weapon are at hand for either interpretation.
🤣 the cowbell slip in was THE PAYOFF
I need more Ironborn
I thought the cadet branch of goodbrother was on orkmont not harlaw? My theory was always since goodbrother and Greyjoy were the two finalists for lord paramount, Greyjoy won but goodbrother was given the hoares old castle for a cadet house to appease them.
Hey man I love this format. Great video. Thanks for all the hard work 🙏
1:03:10 History of Helgoland in the North Sea (Northwest of Doggerbank/Doggerland) :
The island was mined for chalk, which weakened the connection between the main island (red chalk rock about 20 metres high) and the Düne (dune, a sandy island). Due to tides and severe weather events, the connection was eventually broken, so now there are two Islands.
Absolutely love the ironborn series 🎉 the world building is honestly one of the best parts of the whole series. Maybe after the ironborn cow has been milked you can look at other cultures throughout the world and make individual videos for each one? It would be worth a lot of content if you’re ever looking for more ideas for videos series. As always, love your content and keep your head up not even RUclips can keep a good man down!!
New video! 🎉 Thank you !!!
Historically, pirates also liked democracy.
thanks for the Iron Born content and mythos, you mentioned that they dont get the same amount of views but thats probably more due to the shows uninteresting portrayal and not the quality of your streams :)
Great stuff man watching you all the way from South Africa
Woah woah woah, Morgan means “of the sea” and he had an army of thralls???
Bro is a squisher. I’m calling it.
Scythe, skeletal hand, hood….. kraken?
Grim reaper of the sea (Grim Squisher)
Add the horn in there and suddenly it’s:
“Blow the special horn to summon the grim reaper of the sea”
Cryptic
I cannot get enough Ironborn content!!
Thank you Ironborn lovers!!
If he takes the locations of viking settlements and on Ireland turns upside down and puts that on the Westerose map as he done before the Wexford and Cork settlements will line up with the iron isles.
"I got a fever, and the only prescription is more David Lightbringer theories."
Drumm reminds me of drumbs, usually made during this time with stretched and taut hide/leather as the drumhead. Necromancy and stretched, instrumentalized skin just clicks naturally for me.
I doubt you’ll see this but there is a type of ocean fish called a Drum Fish, Red Drum, Black Drum, that can be massive in size, and are called Drum because of the sound they make with the muscles of their swim bladder.
Here is a thing that is buging me. Why was the Seastone chair found on old wyk of all places. Why would the Deep ones but it there, since it would have been located in the in land parts of the Iron island landmass which wouldn't really make sence for them. Why wouldn't they placed it in Pyke or Harlaw instead as that was the place where the first men arrived to the area
I'm not sure I understand your argument, it makes sense to me that it's found at the furthest tip of the peninsula, where the land meets the sea
@@DavidLightbringer I didn't word my argument all that well. I'm not sure that old wyk would have had a coast line, since it's likely that is was apart of great wyk and the land out east was probably connected to it so how can old wyk have a coast line
Thank you for your Ironborn series. They are normally the least favourite part of GRRM's story for me. However, you have reignited my interest. And am seeing them from a fresh perspective now. Appreciate it David.
Yessss been waiting on this!