Killer Lawyer - The Case of Herbert Rowse Armstrong - The Dandelion Poisoner
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2024
- In this True Crime story we look at the case of Herbert Rowse Armstrong, also known as the 'Dandelion Poisoner' or the 'Hay Poisoner'.
You might be surprised to learn that Herbert was a lawyer. Normally tasked with helping to uphold the law, Herbert found himself drifting further to the 'dark side' apparently driven by his overbearing wife and his desire to be with another woman...
00:00 - Intro - The Killer Solicitor
00:30 - The Life of Herbert Rowse Armstrong
03:20 - Katherine 'Kitty' Armstrong - Overbearing Wife?
04:33 - Army Life, Affairs and a new rival.
06:14 - Kitty Armstrong Falls Ill... or does she?
08:05 - Oswald Martin receives Chocolates with an interesting filling...
11:20 - The Net Closes in on Herbert
14:00 - The Trial Begins
15:52 - Aftermath
Can we just give Paul and his team a massive thank you for putting in that real hard work in the research, presentation and the fact he doesn’t just cover stories that everyone else has covered. Every video has been truly unique to me and the first time I’ve heard them 🙌🙌🙌🙌
I think he has covered 2 cases I had heard before, but he covered both far more completely, and with that impeccable style that I appreciate and enjoy so much. Truly fantastic work!
I would love to hear his take on more 'mysterious' topics, like the 'Beast of Bodmin moor', Spring heeled Jack, and other similar topics.
I'm with you 100%!
@@bigbossimmotal The Beast of Bodmin Moor is folklore, a phantom wild cat.
Absolutely. I look forward to my Friday 'fix'. Eloquently told and always intriguing. Thanks to all on the team and to Paul for telling the tale like nobody else can 💯👋👋
Yes, massive thanks to Paul and everyone at this channel. I absolutely love it.
My name is Max Armstrong and Herb is a far back Uncle in our line of ancestry. (We refer to him as Uncle R-Sin-ic)
Our family, throughout the generations, have always weighed on the side of him being guilty.
Clearly, I know the story very well.
Well done Mr. Brodie...Well done
I think he could have been framed. He had the money to pay his rival af the the wife's death.
Yes, I believe you are right because he kept trying to get his rival to have lunch dinner Exedra so obviously they didn't normally hang out and who else would have access to his wife's food/drink enough times to put that much arsenic in it?
The husband.
What an R. Sole
Wow that’s amazing
If he had left it to just killing his wife, he probably would have got away with it. But he got over-confident and trying to murder Oswald Martin was what brought about his downfall. He was guilty!
Yes seems very stupid to push it even more onto his partner with same poison, he openly bought, after lunch, very bold....
@@marcleblanc3602 to greedy....
"Strangely, despite being relatively fit and well both Mr and Mrs Cheese died within days of each other". Why is this not a bigger deal in a poisoning case? He gets so far ahead in life after this happens, this should have been questioned so much more by the police/town when the theories started coming out
That definitely caught my attention.
Sanitation wasn't as good then, neither were methods to test blood for bacteria and viruses couldn't be detected at all. So it wasn't that uncommon for more than one person in a household to die in a short space of time.
Time to exhume the Cheeses!
They Died after having eaten Cheese on Toast, how ironic. 😀
The Cheese's were the creme de la creme. Does that make them the cream cheese of society? Their deaths should have been investigated as both passing so soon would be highly suspect.
I have honestly never seen a channel like this - seriously unique set-up and presenting style!
I've just started releasing true crime videos too and it's given me a whole new level of respect for videos like this!
Thank you for all the hard work!
Subscribed.
Thank you for the kind comment! Your videos are top quality and I can see you've almost hit that magic 1k mark. Keep going 👊👍
@@WellINever You're more than welcome! 1k always seems far away until you hit it haha.
I've just subscribed, Dark :)
@@WellINever , what a lovely and encouraging response for the up and coming channel. :) I'm going to check out Dark Case Documentaries as well.
Loved it! I owe Agatha Christie an apology for ever thinking that her plot lines were far-fetched, or at least only possible in a fictional setting - chocolates mysteriously arrive at the door and everybody just dives in! Oh my goodness the stuff that “cosy” English murders are made of!
You should look at the Greek Deception… or Operation: Mincemeat
Same thing, just different names. The whole thing sounds completely ridiculous and impossible yet… it really and truly happened. And it was done so beautifully that I’m in awe
@@icarusbinns3156 Thanks so much for the rec! I just watched the trailer for Operation Mincemeat and loved it, the subject matter the cast all look great - I’m going to watch it tonight 👍🏻
Another English murder case involving chocolates is the case of Christiana Edmunds, who poisoned chocolates which killed a young boy. This case is particularly interesting to me cuz it happened in Brighton, a town quite near to where I live.
It wasn't until fairly recently that foods started coming in tamper evident packaging. Drugs too. The Tylenol poisonings in the US led to the changes here. Still some things like beer still come in bottles that can be easily opened and resealed.
Poisoning by chocolate was more common then you would believe. It was a special treat and often sent anonymously. Women were the most susceptible to this and often thought they had a secret admirer.
Many account of the case have said that when Armstrong was giving evidence, he was doing well until the judge, Mr Justice Darling, asked questions about the arsenic in Armstrong's possession and how it was stored. The questions seemed to leave Armstrong rattled, and those observers have speculated that he lost the case in that moment.
Smoking in only one room seems totally reasonable and I write this while smoking. Even if people didn't know the health risks they had noses to smell with. It's not roses.
That would actually have been a quite normal rule in those days.
And leaving a social outing for bath night when you had to boil each pot of water, haul it into the tub and wash each child and dry them with limited linens so pneumonia wouldn't set in sounds pretty reasonable. Lol and just asking him not to drink...she honestly just sounds like a responsible mother and concerned wife 😂 Love it when these psychotic murderers always leave notes about their "overbearing" wives and mothers - like dude sorry everyone asked you to take care of your children, or your chores and not let you creep around having affairs and murdering everyone.
@@coastafexactly what I thought. This poor oppressed man. He was not allowed to do whatever he wanted whenever he wanted, not even get laid with young girls! His wife was a total witch.
I don't smoke indoors and I always have car windows rolled down. I know people for years that still don't know I smoke. #cigsublife
@@coastafshe Sounds Like a horrible controlfreak to be frank. I don't know who in the world wan'ts to be controlled as a little child by a authoritarian mother. No that's not normal.
Yes, he was guilty. I've read the Beales book and it's very biased in Major Armstrong's favour, and I thought, rather hostile to the Martins and Mr. Davies ( the local chemist, and Martin's father-in-law). And sadly Oswald Martin's health was so damaged by his being poisoned, that he had ongoing internal problems for the rest of his life and died relatively young, aged just 55 in 1946.
Beales must have been so obsessed with him, taking over the practice and moving into his house, that he couldn’t see the whole picture?
"Kitty, i'm coming to you"
No matter how unlikely it might be she would no doubt have a lengthy and forceful bollocking prepared for any such reunion.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
He still was trying to make his legacy as an innocent man. (rolling my eyes)
How intolerable can your marriage be that being sent off to war is a welcomed change. 😳
Loved how you add a little humour during this story. Thank you
I laughed so hard when it finally got to the bath brush. Absolutely frickin adorable little pantomime. For some reason when the military part of the story came into it, I was reminded of the character Frank Burns from MASH. If that show had taken a darker turn for him, he might have turned out a similar way.
How the brush and Paul looked at each other is adorable.
I'm not sure if Armstrong was guilty or not, but his behavior after his wife's death was rather odd. I know he wants to get out from her control, but her death was questionable at best. That itself could raise suspicion.
yeah the love was gone, a new prospect, seems to have been very naive in arsonic repeats and obvious behavior.
Very probable but not a fullproof case.
I've shared this channel with my 18 year old son, and my 90 years young grandma. Truly a channel that can be enjoyed by all!!🙏👏👏👏✌️
I never get tired of the knowledge that this channel is feeding my brain. I love this channel and it's so educational. Thank you so much!
The scrub brush sneaking up on Paul...hahaha
This reminds me a bit of a case in the Netherlands from 1912, 'De Hoornse taart' (the pie from Hoorn). A poisoned pie was sent to the household of the market master of Hoorn, Willem Markus. But, the man was not home himself and the pie was received and eaten by his wife and a maid. His wife, Maria, died and the maid got very ill. The pie was poisoned with arsenic. The culprit, Jonannes Jacobus Beek, claimed that he was not guilty of murder, because he did not intent to kill Maria, but her husband. This did, of course, not work.
Thanks for story
I love this story but, an overbaring wife, and a rival solicitor, to whom he owed money, gives me the strong feeling he was guilty as charged, also, she changes her will leaving everything to him ?
right, and the fact that the will was changed so soon before her death? totally suspicious in my book
@@rowietheweird4737 absolutely
And it's not like Martin would poison himself
I think he may have done away with that other couple that were "in good health" at the beginning possibly as well 😅 🤔
Ok I'm dead...when that bath sponge looked at you I lost it 🤣
A few years ago, I watched an old TV drama about the Hay poisonings. Michael Kitchen, from Foyle's War, played HRA.
I really enjoyed your presentation of the case. Thank you
I watched it on yt a few months ago, before I had ever heard of this case. It's calls 'Dandelion Dead' - really excellent drama
@@suzp2265 yes it is excellent...one of michael kitchens best roles,,,,,I think filmed where it happened too..
@@hazelclose8800 yes I think you're right - I expect a lot of Hay is unchanged since that time. The period detail was excellent as well as the cast. MK has an unusual style as an actor, I've always liked him, the drama made it clear he was guilty but also managed to show the charm of Armstrong.
That was a really good dramatization.
Love this channel. Great presentation. Tasteful humor not insulting or making light if the dark topics and majestic facial hair that deserves an award
Paul, this is the second time I've heard you talk about poisoned chocolates and I don't like it! 🤣 And we're coming up on Halloween!!! Another great video, thanks for everything! I have told so many people about this awesome channel! 👍
Paul can talk about poisoned chocolates (and I'm a major chocolate lover!) or anything else all he wants! He's adorable and I could watch and listen to him all day! 😊🥰
I loved that little skit at the start, with the smoking, drinking and loofah! Not to mention, great presentation as ever 🙂
I love how you cover obscure and usually unheard of historic cases and I like your delivery also. I also appreciate you and your team travelling to these places to give as videography of the landscape, not only just photographs; both help with immersion into the story, and having photos of the person's involved makes them more relatable... well, maybe not relatable, but gives them more dimension as human beings. Thank you!
What a truly fascinating case! I would be inclined to agree with the jury. Very convenient how Katherine's will was changed just before her death. Also I find it suspicious that the relatively sudden demise of the Cheeses benefited Herbert Rowse's career.. 🤔 The man was guilty all right! (£5000 would have hardly helped him escape the gallows so not much use for it!!)
Another excellent, beautifully presented video.. 👏 Paul, _you are much appreciated!_ 🤗
Great video, I just love Paul's accent, so well presented & such interesting cases that do make me say 'well I never' many thanks
She must have really been tough since he preferred military life over life with her!
Loved the humor and props! That bath brush looked suspicious!
Herbert was in the law, but luckily wasn't above it, thank goodness. Thank you for reporting on this story.
I'm impressed how this giant ego fitted into this small, skinny man. The audacity... Great story and i love the way it was narrated ❤
I was eating dinner while watching this and looked up to see the scrub brush exchanging looks with Paul and almost choked on my water! OMG :)
I want to thank you so much sir for your videos as they are very educational and interesting. I could listen to you talk for hours everyday. May god bless you and your family
I always wonder what happened to the children of the couple in cases like this. Thank you for another wonderful story.
Love the way the presenter talks and makes it easy for a non English speaker to understand. Are you Scottish? As for the case, I say it was all due to greed. No rival involved, Armstrong just wanted to be the top dog in his community
I'm English myself and I think I can hear a little Scottish accent here and there! He enunciates everything beautifully, doesn't he 😊.
@@bookhousegirl Aye, me too. My grandparents were Scots.
@@felicitybywater8012-- I only wish I could claim Scottish ancestry. However, the closest I can get are ancestors who were predominantly Swedish and Finnish. Given how frequently the Scandinavians (read Vikings) hopped over and invaded Scotland many centuries ago, perhaps I might have some umpteenth-time removed Scottish cousins.
He seemed guilty from my untrained eye. I'm thinking... if I were to poison someone and wanted the finger to NOT be pointed at me, I'd probably give myself an extremely low dose of it as well and then claim I didn't eat as much as the others. But maybe not. I'm no expert in how much poison it would take.
Well I never , lol great story , does sound guilty , thanks for a great content , good night from Australia
Nighty night, Patricia! Thanks for watching :)
Ooh I loved the use of the props when describing Catherine's domineering personality, hilarious. Another fascinating tale told impeccably, thank you Sir 👏
Agatha Christie must have based any number of her murderer mysteries on the Herbert Armstrong case. Her investigators refer to it. The same elements: the respected, clever lawyer who is secretly cheating on his wife, the gracious house that hides a secret, the arsenic, the multiple victims over time; all show up in her plots time and again. This case would have been current events when she was writing in her heyday.
Paul I really appreciate your work on these videos I'm one of your biggest fans keep up the sensational job my friend
LOVED this, thank you so much! Greetings from Berlin Germany 👍🤗🇩🇪
Herbert was one of those psychos who would never admit his guilt to his final hour because he's all about appearances and saving face. To some degree he believed his own lies
I enjoy your stories. I laughed when you were acting as you spoke of Katherine's strict rules. I also love your brogue. Keep on keeping on!
You guys are awesome, I can’t wait when I hear of a new video coming out!
This channel is my new obsession. The stories and research that goes into them are great. I love it. The presenter is the best part.
Morals were so strange back then. That the only way out was to poison someone rather than leave and or make the needed changes that could solve problems. The under currents were wicked. Awesome as always Paul and team to all the work done to bring these cases to us. The victims continue to live on through their telling. Thank you.
Lol. Paul was THIS close to lighting that cigarette. 😉
This is a great channel with a great presenter !! . This gentleman is truly the diamond in the coal mine . 👍👍👍👍👍
Your R's were in fine form today, sir.
You do a great job narrating these stories. Interesting stories you bring thank you much sir
I love this channel!
It's cool that you do little known crimes.
Great work.
Thankyou Paul and his team
Thank you...enjoyed!
THANK YOU. GREAT WORK
Fascinating! Thank you for yet another great video!
Thanks, Paul. I love your stories, and your little bit of theatrical antics was delightful to watch.😄
Excellent story! Thank you so much for all your hard work!!
You are such an amazing storyteller! Thank you for your channel!
oh my! more of Mr. Paul's mini-re-enactments please! ♥
Thank you Paul for all your work making your videos,I'm very new to your show but I love it
Excellent, tysm for these entertaining videos.
Thanks Paul for sharing every detail of this case in depth God Bless you.
for such a grim subject, it was a delightful piece. from the lovely rolling of the Rs to the silly bits, it was quite pleasant to listen to and watch.
as to HRA:
i think his being a bit too slick and lacking in humility is what got him in the end. and then to cap it off with the last ditch, "oh well, she did it to herself"... he'd have done better to not say Anything about it. or go with she took it by accident. don't go into detail. don't try to punch up the story or add embellishments. the less said, the better.
it always boggles my mind how some people can be so book smart but so dumb in most other areas.
I just have to say I absolutely love your channel and you never fail to disappoint!! I’m always left simply wanting more! And the comedy thrown in was absolutely stellar! Thank you and keep doing what you’re doing!
I absolutely love your videos , always a treat.
Another brilliant story, thanks
I've just recently found this channel and I really like the whole presentation, the way it's documented and so straightforward just drew me in!!! I enjoy general nostalgia, crime and documentaries but the way these stories are not only encompass these three, they are so interestingly tastefully done, BRAVO & KUDOS to all involved in their production. Thank you so much for all of your combined work!!!
Very Interesting, Thank You.
Another very well researched & presented video Paul.
Thank you
Fantastic storytime again,every word you speak I can see and feel, Thank you ever so much Mr Paul
I've just discovered this channel, and I'm so excited to see what I've been missing, and I can't wait to see what you do next. Definitely worth the instant subscription!
Another riveting story! Thank you.
Best channel l've seen in awhile.Great work Paul.
I adore this channel. Up there with That Chapter in my tiny mind. I do hope the sponge will become a permanent sidekick. Not sure if Herbert did it but I wonder what drives a lady to become a Mrs. Cheese. Turns out she got herself into a bit of a pickle. Soz. I'll get my coat. 🙄
Great post! Been waiting for a new one!
That skit was amazing! I loved the bath brush 😂
Thanks for the great stories, I thoroughly enjoy them
Well done
My favorite storyteller!!!!! Thank you Kind Sir 😊😊😊
Really enjoyed watching this
It is the second time in twelve months I have listened to you tell this story. So good. 😊
Interesting story, thank you.
Best yet! Love your rolling rrrs. Glorious!
Thank you so much for uploading this video. It is helping me get through the pandemic!
When that sponge on a stick popped up I almost spit out my coffee! I so enjoy this program 🌬💕
Another brilliant story you deserve your own TV series 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
I truly enjoyed the way this gentleman spoke. He did not speak rapidly, but clearly and concisely.
Great Scott!! I haven't seen a cravet since 1975. Glad to see real style coming back.
Thank you.
That was really interesting thanks for sharing 👍
The part where you were talking about the smoking, drinking, and bathing was great lol.
original and fascinating channel. love it!
You are a class act the way you tell your stories. I'm inclined to believe that Herbert was guilty. He just got to be a bit too cocky in the end and that did him in.
Thankyou Paul 🖤 🖤
Good morning from the Florida Keys, USA. Thanks for another delightful true crime story to enjoy with my morning coffee. Yes, he was guilty; no doubt in my mind.
Yes, it appears the Dandelion Poisoner was well and truly guilty!
I'm very impressed with the fact that he is the only person in Britain to have practiced Law AND Murder!!
I don't think we Americans can claim to have very upstanding Attorneys.
The skit about Mrs. Armstrong's iron rules is delightful. 🚭
Perfect timing and delivery.
Thank you.
Have a wonderful weekend Sir! Very grateful for your videos ☺️
And you Karina! Thank you for watching :)
New viewer here! To say I am obsessed with your channel, would be a major understatement!
Love yer Channel, mate !
Thank you for another fab story 😊 Greetings from Denmark 😊
Loved the little sketch in the middle with the cigarettes and bath loofah! Gave me a right giggle
I love your videos and look forward to more