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Your AG1 stuff contains spirulina and kelp, which may trigger a flare up of hyperthyroidism in people who are susceptible to it. It would probably be quite good for people with hypothyroidism.
After thinking about it, yeah... It is mostly "learned behaviour" isn't it? So like, they could easily "learn" to be biased even if that wasn't the creators intention.
I think this is the most emotional I have heard Simon be for one of these. Please let the next script be a fun heist, just for Simon’s mental health sake
What we NEED is for him to do one on Cowboy Bob! It is PER-FECT for this channel: crazy string of bank robberies, nobody dies ....well, not until the end, but there's also a twist almost too good to believe.
Agreed, some of these dark dark dark scripts are all well and good to get a better understanding of what happened. But it can be really heavy at times. A heist script sounds more fun. Hope Simon is okay after this one.
When I was just starting out as a nurse, one of the hardest but most important lessons I learned was to admit when you've made a mistake. It's terrifying going to your senior and saying "I gave this person the wrong medication" and yeah, sometimes nothing comes of it (I'm looking at you, staffing issues). But having that culture where you can admit mistakes or report issues without being blamed is absolutely CRUCIAL to healthcare. I sincerely hope every single person who dismissed someone's concerns in this case gets the whole bloody book thrown at them too.
I had been a nurse about 3 years when 22 year old pregnant woman (33 wks) came in complaining of severe abdominal pain and cramps... pretty common right? Immediately think Braxton hicks but its Irregular contractions with half cm dilated and soft cervix and so she's admitted. So now we have threatened preterm labor. Was waiting for ultrasound when she went unconscious and was vomiting. We got her back and rushed her to imaging. She had rupture of the uterine venous plexus with ovarian rupture. She didn't make it through the surgery. Nicu tried like hell to save the babe but his little lungs just couldn't manage. I had just came back to work after having a miscarriage from a placental abruption at 16 weeks with my daughter. Then losing the mom and baby boy was too much for me. Two days later I gave my 2 week notice. Spent a few years at home with my son then returned to university to go into early childhood education. Loved it but diagnosed with lupus then four years later MS ended my career.
As a jaw surgery patient whose nurse didn’t read the medicine directions that said to *dilute heavily* before administering orally, I greatly appreciate nurses and doctors who are willing to admit when they have made a mistake. Because then they can learn from them and become better. Heck, when I was born I needed a hip brace and I was my orthopedist’s very first patient after becoming a doctor. He was so nervous he put my brace on backwards the first visit. I still go to see him 30 years later, he’s a great doctor.
@eileenayers5723 It might also be that hospital, doesn't necessarily mean the entire UK is like that. But I haven't been to a hospital in the UK, no idea. Probably came close once as a little boy trying to climb up the ratlines on HMS Victory. Barely got one rung up before someone yelled "hey!!".
I can't even believe anyone would rather ignore the lives of babies so they didn't get the media of a police investigation. That feels like it has to be the highest level of malpractice or just completely desecrating the Hippocratic oath.
I totally second that. When I was choosing a hospital for cancer treatment (in France) one of the questions I asked (including to the 'big boss' of the unit) was if they ever made mistakes, and how they acted when mistakes had been made. My very hard working French GP would have been visiting regularly if I'd been hospitalised (he's my medical proxy) and he would have been very nosy (much better than the idea of a detective in the hospital, as he would have known what he was looking at ) and would have been giving them Hell if they'd cocked up, and would have had it sorted out (or would have pressed charges on my behalf if I'd been unable to).
Just wanted to thank everybody for all the amazing feedback. I wish I could respond to everybody, but, there just isn’t time. This is, without a doubt, the hardest one I have ever had to write, including the one about the Dunblane shootings.
Great writing. Very sad episode :( But we the community thank you for your scripts :) i've thuroughly enjoyed your writings on this channel. Hope you're doing okay, mentaly mostly since you're writing about all these crimes and stuff. 😊
Can you not hear your own rhetoric ? " A mother nearly caught LL in the act of murdering her baby ? What a stupid way to use words You either catch some one in the act or you do not ,there is no near . Remember there was no complaint against LL made by any parent ,there was of the hospital, but not LL until the police told them they suspected her . Babies often bleed at mouth with in tube difficult to fit in a small child , remember also babies have no developed immune system ,so not surprising they die like flies , if there is a problem with sterilisation of kit etc . There was a case very similar in Holland nurse charged 5 murders later acquitted the science was BS ,just like LL case . total BS like some thing out of the middle ages .
@@rolandhawken6628Wow. Are you seriously defending a convicted child serial killer by attacking the person who wrote a script about her actions (from a creator who provides you with countless hours of content at no cost to you)?! THIS sounds like a ridiculous choice of words. To say nothing of your use of punctuation and grammar.
@@beckobean Yawn , another post ? You are a child , an absolute child . Barry George was a convicted killer freed 8 years later . The Guilford 4 convicted then released . I could go on all day long with miscarriages of justice . In this first quarter century 549 convictions have been overturned in Britain a high percentage being murder trials . but hey people like you are far more interested in grammar, which incidentally fails in all languages Yes I am defending her because she was tried by distorted press reports before she entered the court , and I will continue to do so . Even with bad my grammar
@@ruthbashford3176and what other explanation is there? The babies care was interfered with - which is murder. Lucy was there EVERY single time. Their deaths were not properly investigated at the time, but they have been now, and they point towards those babies being murdered. What else would you call someone purposefully harming babies that then leads to death?
@@maht0x This video was written, recorded, edited, and proofed in 5~ days. Normally, my Casual Criminalist scripts take weeks to write and weeks more to make it through the entire filming/editing pipeline.
Even statistical models are prone to bias as it's the human that designs the model and decides what to put in there. If the human has biases (which everyone does) the model will too.
This is less a Thanks and more of a "My Condolences" because it's so obvious how much this episode in particular bothered you. You have my respect for getting through the telling of this horror, and you deserve more. I just hope you were able to finish filming this and sign off for the day so you could go and love your kids until you felt better, and hug them a while longer. I hope your next few videos can be of lighter topics, like some heists.
It was hard to hear the distress in Simon's voice. I hope he was able to take some time to just stop and de-stress in private before he was back making any pod casts or posting on this channel.
I had twins, premature, in 2015. Parents put so much trust in the doctors and nurses that are responsible for taking care of their babies. This story is so heartbreaking
Ms Letby has caused great harm to the nursing profession- nurses do have immense trust from patients and also wield tremendous power in the care they provide to patients care that requires specialized education and a desire to help and not cause harm, the hospital where she worked was negligent IMO, the nurse managers should have picked up on at least her dangerous incompetence, newborn deaths are extremely rare considering their fragility if in ICU, after the second death she should have been placed under strict supervision for at least 3 months, she may have left and gone elsewhere as she is a psychopath of the worst kind.
I agree with Simon that there should be some sort of detective in hospitals. Not just to prevent another Letby, but also for domestic abuse victims, kids who are being harmed, elder abuse, etc. So many things could be caught if there were more eyes on these things.
I think AI would be better. Sure it will have false positives but a investigation will disapprove the findings. The medical field has a severe lack of accountability for their negligence.
There are teams that are supposed to do this. The issue is the culture in the nhs. If anything is thought to bring the reputation into disrepute it gets hushed up. I’m a social worker in a hospital and some of the things you hear are horrendous.
Totally agree, this should be a reality check that psychopaths are everywhere, and people should be investigated once suspicion is raised.. Because lets be honest, if police has suspicion that i deal drugs, im being investigated for sure.. butwhen baby after baby dies, its being neglected? Where is the principle of "protecting the citizens"? Let alone nurse and take care, but im gonna be honest, it feels like they rather sweep it under the rug than to investigate... because other malpractions might come to light
@@serifz8700i didnt read your comment, but my suspicion sadly feels more true now... A crazy world we live in... but lets all try to come together to fight these demons in human form!
Then there's also that case where a child was taken away from her family because she was beig medicated with ketamine. Her parents had worked with a doctor for a long time to help manage her illness with it and it was the only thing that worked. The child protective services person in the hospital decided they were abusing her by drugging her and she died in the hospital.
As with all CC eps, I'm sure this is fantastic. Unfortunately, I had to stop before Simon barely finished the intro. I'm a former NICU mom & I thought I could handle this, but too many emotions flooded me at once. One of our now 8 y/o twins spent his first 6 weeks in hospital & had open heart surgery at 4 weeks. Those NICU doctors & nurses (the entirety of the staff, really) were essentially his stand-in family as we could only be with him for a few meager hours a day during the scariest time of our lives. NICU carers are truly a different breed & to our family, actual heroes. This woman is a monster & a disgrace. To all the NICU families you are amazing. To NICU providers- you are unparalleled in your field. Can't wait for the next CC; fingers crossed for heist hijinks. I think Simon & the team could use it🧡
I have 3 children who were in nicu for various reasons. I forced myself to listen to the entire thing. My heart goes out to all the family's who have shared our pain. But more so to the victims of monsters like her and genean Anne jones.
Not saying you should, but if you ever do decide to watch this episode, it is the best one they've ever done in reference to tact and information selection. It's the only video where I've seen Simon break but read every word because those words were important. Dave did an excellent job of painting Letby as a monster without editorializing and pruning all of the emotional information to just a few quotes that made his point well. If you never watch it, be assured that the people who learn about this case from this video are learning about it at the right level. Glad the NICUs for your boys were who they were supposed to be. I could definitely go for a heist, too.
My wife and I were lucky enough to have three healthy babies. When I try to imagine what it must have been like to be in your shoes… that emotion is so vast, dark and terrifying I have a hard time feeling that I can comprehend it. You’ve had experience through which you found an extraordinary level of strength. Good health to your family!
I can't even start listening... I couldn't stand fiction where babies die, and now being pregnant listening about a real story is wayyyyy too much to me.
It's not uncommon. Hospitals never want to admit they've got a killer in their midst. It would mean a massive loss of reputation, because by the time anyone even voices a suspicion they usually would have to face the "why did not one realize anything was wrong sooner?" question. I've seen so many cases where it happened I can't be surprised by it anymore. I just feel sad about it.
You have no idea what it may have been like to have known her as they did. It would have been absolutely beyond any conceivable notion that she would have been in any way deliberately responsible
@@TheJthom9This is a stupid take and you should feel bad. My God, dude. And I bet the people who defended Bundy were just as positive that he could never have ever done that, he's not like that at all!! All the babies died under her watch. She was witnessed in the room several times just before they died. She was even caught hovering over a baby that happened to die when she wasn't even on shift. There were relative piles of evidence just based on firsthand witnesses of her crimes. There is no excuse for denying what happened, and giving one to the hospital is sick. You are sick.
It’s been very satisfying, from the perspective of a father of older children, to see Simon’s metamorphosis as a Dad. A few years back things didn’t hit him this hard. Just like me, all you have to do is talk about someone harming kids and we’re done. Proud of you Fact Dad.
@@221b-l3tWas there a point to your statement other than bringing up a few common sense level points? You might have limited your response to “I don’t want to deal with the inconvenience of raising children. I’d rather focus on myself; but I’m empathetic enough to recognize that children should not be harmed. It still would not have been pertinent; nobody cares if you want to have kids, and everybody knows many parents are unfit. At least it would have been a less revealing exercise in idiocy. Having kids changes you, and people have gone through the process sometimes feel a sense of camaraderie when one parent demonstrates those changes to another. I didn’t mindlessly have kids because “that’s just what you do.” I never wanted to be a parent, I stepped up to my responsibility, used it as a path to personal growth, and have come out much better for it. Perhaps it surprises you, but many pregnancies are unplanned. I would venture that the people that actually try to become parents willingly are probably more prepared than those who do not. As they say, if you know you know. You most certainly do not know. It’s absolutely your right to decide that you never want to know, that you want to live your life unencumbered . I would suggest that you banish this idea that you have a valuable take like: “Kids are expensive and don’t take direction as well as a sail boat” from your mind. You just look silly.
@@221b-l3tabsolutely see your point and agree with you, for men or women but this wasn't the point that "battlebeard" was making. I have friends that have chosen not to be parents (for different reasons to yours) but I am one of the few who haven't asked why not - she did tell me eventually and she loved when also reminded her that it was none of mine or anyone's business. Others are to quick to judge and accuse others of selfishness for not following the "norm". And yes many times I wish I'd stuck to dogs or gone on cruises but I'm an honest parent - to myself, not the kids 😅 "battlebeard" was talking about the change in Simon not that people can only relate if they have kids. 💜
I am a retired nurse and yes, patients have died infrequently on my duty shift. I did take time off to process the loss as I was working in the Oncology Unit and I became very close to the patients and their families. It is very hard emotionally when you lose a patient you have worked with for months.
I remember my mom talking about the first time she had to deal with a resident dying who had a DNR. (nursing home CNA) She was forced to sit here and hold her hand and just watch the last bits of life just leave. The hurt she was feeling was just awful
I lost my husband 7 weeks ago, to complications of his heart condition. When someone is so very ill, so medically fragile, you do rely on the medical staff a lot. Fortunately, the doctors and nurses caring for my husband were amazing, and some stood out as exceptional. I am truly grateful for their efforts, even though the outcome wasn't what anyone wanted. Even his cardiologist was, in his own words, "quite upset" over the death of this kind, gentle, funny, intelligent, likeable guy. I can't even imagine what my reaction would be if I learned my loved one's death was intentional at the hands of someone who was supposed to save them. Scum like Letby tarnish the reputation of a trusted profession. I truly hope her days are miserable, because the days of the parents whose children died will be, and it's her fault.
As a medical student, those doctors were threatened with the GMC for “bullying and harassment” being silenced is far too common and normal - and to make matters worse, the GMC released a document about being “kind” a few days later and how colleagues should be “kind” to one another… no one was punished for threatening those doctors or sweeping under the rug. And it makes me anxious and my blood boil for the future
Same thing happens in elderly care. I know someone who got reprimanded and eventually fired for “bullying” because they wouldn’t let their colleagues get away with neglecting the elderly people in their care. People would leave them lying in their own filth out of pure laziness. There’s no accountability.
That was absolutely devastating, Simon. I am a Mother and the thought of harming a tiny vulnerable baby just does not compute.I went through some tissues, only more so because of your perfect tone and reactions. Well done everyone who helped put this together. Definitely woke my big orange cat and hugged him for a long time.
I've known a few 'iron maiden' nurses in my time. Not one of them wouldn't have quit & gone to work in the lobby gift shop after the death of kid#2! It takes a level of coldness that goes beyond human not to be haunted by such a loss.
I'm not a mother and I still went through some tissues myself. I don't understand why anyone would hurt a premature baby and their whole family. Imagine the trauma these families, especially the mothers, have gone through. First, living through giving birth to a premature baby, then the loss of that baby, then the possibility of a postnatal depression, and trying to deal with life and other people while their bodies readjust hormonally. Then the shock that their children were murdered, and guilt again because they think they should have protected their children. And reliving the nightmare by retelling their stories to the cops and media and the court. I seriously would have lost my mind. My heart goes to all the families and mothers who've went through such a nightmare.
This episode was rough. I have no children of my own, so I can't imagine the devastation the parents in this story endured. However, my older brother died from AML when he was five and I was three. His passing still haunts our family to this day, over five decades later. The phrase that was repeated over and over again, (long before it was said in "The Two Towers), was, "No parent should ever outlive their child." I can only hope that the parents of the victims in this story are able to find some small measure of peace.
I was supposed to have a third sister. She was stillborn. We just about lost Mom, too. We were *devastated.* And this was natural causes. If it'd been murder... I might have a record for assault.
I'm so sorry you went through that. With children I always catch myself thinking, "gosh they'd be X age now, they'd have had X milestone." I had a friend pass when we were in school, not even a really close friend but someone I very much liked and admired. Every big milestone since, I've thought of her. When I went to uni, moved away from home, started attending the weddings of friends. It's impossible not to. I'm sure it always feels like he's with you, and yet the picture is never quite complete.
I didn’t lose a sibling at a young age, but I know how devastating it can be to lose a sibling. My older brother committed suicide at 19 years old and it tore my family apart. My dad has never recovered from it. Even now almost 20 years later, he’s still broken as are all my other siblings and myself. We all said the same thing too “no parent should ever outlive their child”. It got easier for me and my siblings over time to move on with our lives, as we know that’s what he would of wanted, but it still hurts thinking about him. I never got to tell him I was gay, he never got to meet my husband or any of our nephews or our niece. I’m sending as much love as possible to you and your family. - from a random person on the internet who shares a similar pain.
Ditto. I have 3 kids. The first, now 21, spent the first 2 weeks of his life in NICU because he was premature. When I heard this story, my blood ran cold.
How evil do you have to be to be able to harm, let alone kill a defenseless baby? I have no kids myself, but thie episode makes me want to go and hug a kid in my family. Thanks for your hard and excellent work to Dave, Chris and Simon!❤
Not even just a baby but a neonatal baby. Maybe that would make it "easier" for some? Idk I just know how completely helpless they look and remember my little niece being born. I can understand a nurse being able to do things that hurt an infant but save their life, I can't comprehend delighting in killing them so people will feel bad for YOU
This type of serial killer can be thought of something like an arsonist who is a firefighter. He sets the fire and then comes to the rescue. This is one of the main archetypes of serial killers in a healthcare environment called the malignant hero. They put someone in danger and they then try or fein an effort to save them to be seen as competent or selfless. Although in her case there seems to be some sadism thrown in there too.
@@dismurrart6648 we know that some of it was deliberate (by deliberate I mean she set out to kill with no intent to save) and was probably done to cover up the other murders (the targeting of twins particularly since it can be more easily ascribed to some rare genetic disorder) but she had checkout sheets for a whole load of other patients. We know she tried to kill more then she actually did and the behavior probably escalated over time. Just like other serial killers the behavior escalates over time because they no longer get their perverse gratification from the more minor endangerment. The other thing it could be is something called Munchhausen by proxy. Which is kind of like the malignant hero but for sympathy and attention.
“Thank you” to Simon for always being So compassionate and respectful in covering this content. “Thank you” to Dave for a well-written script and for working on the weekend. Thanks also to the Chap helping Jen!
@@oliviaelley6375Because this is his job olivia, i appreciate simon being candid and honest in rhis video instead of affecting some fake seriousness as you can tell that the story is really impacting him as he jokes less . Sadly everything is about money, not simons fault and certainly not to his detriment.
@@nickm8810 I still don't think RW killed all those girls...but she may have known about it. Obstruction of justice and accessory ...but serial killer? That was her sick twisted husband. She was wrong and deserved prison but the over branding of her is kind of ridiculous and unfair.
My twins were in the nicu for 68 and 121 days. My daughter has had 5 brain surgeries and I’ve had to place her in the arms of medical staff and ask them to save her more times than i want to think about. I had to take a lot of breaks during this one.
One of the parents who's daughter had suffered a few attempts from Letby said her eyes suddenly changed from content to sadness all the time. Imagine that little baby going through all of that horror and not being able to communicate that to her mummy. Just breaks my heart.
Hearing Simons voice cracking trying to make it through reading those horrific events broke me heart. It’s so clear what a loving father he is and it was so clearly heartbreaking for him to even conceptualize someone harming such an innocent being.
I honestly just want to give Simon a hug. I'm a new parent and I can hear the horror and pain in his voice. Its so hard to understand how anyone could do something like this. Great episode. Good job guys! ❤
It makes me shudder that my son was born at the Countess of Chester hospital just 2 years before Letby started working there. It's terrifying to think what could have happened if he'd been born after.
Lucy worked in my local hospital, and the amount of people in, including my own mum, who had children during the time she was on this spree here is genuinely scary to think about
kudos to the whole team for putting this together so quickly, especially Dave - fantastic writing as usual. I was really close to crying during this, especially the victim statement, the fact that someone could do this is so evil and totally unexplainable. I definitely think something should happen to the higher ups who ignored this and let it continue to happen
Sadly, most hospital admins are former doctors and as such have awoken many a morning to a huge flashing neon sign that reads: PATIENTS DIE! Their brains cannot make the Brocarian leap to the cop side of awareness that questions 'why are they dead?'
@@danieljob3184Patients do die but if you can see the same lady at every scene and have multiple times been asked to investigate.. it's no longer just a lack of ability to leap it's almost enabling.
I love your videos. My son was in the Neonatal for 2 months in the countess of cheshire when he was born at 27 weeks in 2021. I'd vaguely heard about her in the years before but I hadn't put 2 and 2 together and I thought it was on the Labour and delivery ward it all happened. I feel awful for the parents who this monster took away their innocent babies. I would like to say that all the staff that are there now are absolutely lovely and they now have a newly updated unit next to the old one. I hope she rots in jail.
Hope your little one and your family are doing well. We are currently 13 days into Neonatal, our boy was also 27 weeks at birth. It's a roller coaster isn't it?? I have huge respect for any parents that have had to go through it. Not to mention the preemie themselves - absolute warriors 💪
@@SugarandSarcasm A general term for these 'people' (at least in Australia - could be used elsewhere) is 'Rock Spiders', because those who harm children are considered the lowest type of lifeform. She will not have a relatively pleasant life in prison, even in solitary or protective custody.
She started her placement at the Countess in June 2010. I had a baby there in November 2010. I have vague memories of her but there were other nurses I remember far better. Dr Ravi Jayaram, whistleblower, was my kid's paediatrician for a few years. It's odd to think about.
My son-in-law is a research biologist and works for one of the large hospitals in a large American city. He's doing that very thing with all the hospital's data.
I just hope if it becomes a thing and is used, people dont forget about computer bias; like where it takes all ofnthe information and puts together a case to say 'this person is super fucking sus' but theres actually a logical human reason for what happened that a computer couldnt understand and therefore register. And that they dont just take the word of the computers results in diagnosing something multiple patients have in common, like the markings the babies had. I mean, have you ever been sick and googled your symptoms and been told youve got like the plague or something? A computer might go for leprosy in this instance, and i hope there is human thought, reasoning, and knowledge then put into the results to get past the idea the program would always be 100% correct. Jeez, sadly i could see administration telling their staff 'trust the computer, the computer knows all' because hospitals are often stupudly run by people with business degrees, not medical ones.
@@heyysimoneyes, this was my thought when Simon was talking! AI is biased because humans are biased. Crunching the numbers is really important, finding trends is very useful, but understanding that computers are tools with limitations is necessary.
As a doctor, can you answer how does one posthumously determine a baby has been injected with air? Is this something that is easily revealed at autopsy?
@@chickenlover657 unfortunately that’s part of forensic pathology, which I didn’t study. going about it from basics, the process would create air embolisms, which are basically air bubbles floating in the vessels until they get stuck and cut off blood flow to whatever’s downstream. I’d expect so see signs of infarction but no actual blood clot, since the culprit would be air in this case.
I just want to say.... "WELL DONE SIMON.".... For being able to keep his composure whilst he read all of that script.... There has been many times where I have seen Simon looking disturbed & uncomfortable when reading through a script.... Though this time you could clearly see that this case was hitting him much deeper.... You could hear it in his voice together with his deflated body language.... I really felt for him.... And just like myself.... Feelings of Anger, disgust, horror & deep deep sorrow & tears.... I'm sure that the same can be said for everyone who has just watched this.... Infact.... I felt the punch much more listening to Daves' analogy of events than I did when I 1st heard about it.... So.... "WELL DONE TO DAVE TOO."
Gosh, the testimony of the mother of Baby A and Baby B brought me to tears. And I hardly ever cry. Dear God, that poor woman. I just want to hold her close and take her pain away and I know that I can't. My God.
When I first heard about this case in the news, I was like, “My God, it’s Beverley Allitt all over again!” Clearly, lessons from over 30 years ago have still not been learned!
I was thinking of her the whole time! It's almost like Letby was trying to reenact Allitt!! Horrible ppl and I just nauseated at the thought of what those parents went through!
@@MrDragon7742they do. There are audits done on all deaths, whistleblowing programs for hospitals and professional colleges. If you remember the doctor tried to alert his higher ups but they ignored him
This is one of those cases that always make me cry, no matter how many podcast I heard about it. Hospital's negligence is appalling. They should have done so much more.
I don't usually comment, I've watched true crime series and shows for well over 15 years, I don't usually get emotional but this one moved me to tears. Thank you for telling this story may that disgusting person rot in jail forever.
I do not believe Lucy Letby will last in jail. She will be on a suicide watch, try at some time to take her own life, or be attacked by fellow prisoners. Forever despised, those who hurt and kill children do not last long in prison.
@@tropixi5336 she was only found guilty a few days ago, there wasn’t really a “case” until then. There is another nurse who did this. Beverley Allott, I think, spelling might not be 100%
I have watched every episode of Casual Criminalist but rarely comment - this one is worthy of it. From the incredible speed of its release, the content, the delivery and the editing - this one hits hard. I'm personally not a parent and I never will be, I don't normally feel particularly drawn to children or babies but this one still hurt. Particularly hearing Simon read it with such emotion literally brought tears to my eyes. Brilliant words powerfully read - and I also hope she has quite a horrible time in prison indeed. Thanks for this one!
THANK you for bringing up black box thinking as creating a way for people to admit to mistakes or suspicions is ESSENTIAL for creating a safe environment. It’s actually not totally unheard of for NICU nurses to have violent impulses towards babies, I imagine for similar reasons that new mothers do; exhaustion, stress, and intense hormones can break people’s brains. obviously it’s horrifying to talk about, but equally obviously you’ve GOT to able to talk about those feelings if you start having them so you can get help and not endanger anyone.
My firstborn was born in 2016. I can't even imagine my life without him. I grieve for all the families that lost the chance to watch their children grow up, and pray that this never happens again
God, as a mother of twins, hearing about the twins where one was killed and the other survived hits me so hard. Even as newborns, one of them losing the other would be such a devastating trauma that they'd never be able to remember, but it would be so profound that it would affect every aspect of their life. The bond between all twins (likely all multiples, but I only have twins), not just identicals, is the most unique thing I've ever had the privilege to witness.
Not only that; the surviving twin will undoubtedly learn that their sibling was murdered. They didn't just die from being too premature or 'natural' health complications - they were doing well and would have lived.
If you want to be further outraged by medical misconduct Simon, look into the Baby Ross case going on in Georgia. The ENTIRE admn of that hospital and some of the staff should be facing charges😢😢
Shout out to the funeral home who sent out the alarm bells when first seeing the baby , they saw the state of the baby and immediately said that it was “unusual” the medical examiners office hadn’t been involved, thanks to them the chief medical examiner was involved then the Georgia Bureau of Investigation also took on the case….the hospital/staff absolutely deserve a law suit and PRISON …they tried to sweep it under the rug, just disgusting 😢
An extra big thank you to Dave, for providing us a script in record speed (in spite of Simon's pressure), and to the editor Chris, for making the viewing experience enjoyable, and lightening the mood occasionally. We need it in these ones.
The story reminds me of Lucia de Berk, a nurse in the Netherlands. She got a life sentence for the death of multiple babies, but after many more years of research she got exonerated. Statistics played a large role in the case.
@@gaz8891The statistics expert that helped get her released has already said that he believes this case is similar in that people are blaming her for a statistical fluke.
@@martine5604Except Letby also had hospital records of her victims in her home and the deaths kept being all “accidental” and “unexpected” and Letby was on duty all those times, whereas the case of de Berk it was poisonings that could be misinterpreted in toxicology reports thereby giving wrong info on the causes of death, and de Berk wasn’t always around when these deaths occurred.
Yeah Lucia de Berk was the night/sleep shift nurse one wasn't she? She was exonerated when the statistics shown that it was her shift time that was the actual factor why more people died on her shift instead of her as a person. In the trial where she was found guilty the prosecution used some statistics that were completely wrong. They didn't look at the different chances of death between shifts and also inflated the ammount of suspicious death on her shifts only.
@@ciom9065 Trust me. Hell doesn't begin to describe it. Every single prisoner, and every single screw will know exactly what she did. They're rubbing their hands together at the thought of her being in their prison. And it is the women's prison. Not the screws. Justice will be served.
@@HumanityisEmbarrassingwomen's prison is a lot different than men's. And a lot of them are in for killing their own children. Don't be so sure. I've heard first hand account of women coexisting and making heinous criminals and calling them "mom" or "grandma" while they're locked up
2 of my 3 kids have had a NICU stay, my youngest is 3 weeks old today and spent the first 7 days in NICU. I’m so grateful for the care he received at our hospital, and can’t imagine what those parents must feel ever day.
I was personally in the NICU as a 32 week preemie at 4lbs 5oz when I was born and then the next generation turned around and did the same thing when my niece was born at 5lbs. The idea of having lost my niece or my parents having lost me is terrifying and heartbreaking. Shoutout to Simon for making it through this. Hope you took a break and hugged the kiddos a little tighter after this one.
The thing with putting all the hospital data into machine learning is that it requires good record keeping (something medical professionals are often terrible at) and incidents being reported correctly. I dont know what incident reporting methods other hospitals use but the one at the trust I work for is clunky, unstable and painfully slow so often incidents dont even get reported because people simply run out of time in their day to report what might seem to be minor issues or near misses at the time.
I’m not someone who who has any interest in having children of my own, but most of my friends are having their first babies at the moment and I’m so happy for them, seeing all the tiny new lives that bring them so much joy. It made this one so much harder to hear, thinking of someone taking that away from the parents so callously, doing it to the most innocent and vulnerable, there’s no way to make it make sense. It’s just madness
The fact that you can’t be with your wife and child 24/7 afterwards that’s insane to me. 2 hours a day to see my wife and child? Have to have a couple big security guards.
Is that in the UK? Where I gave birth (just outside of Seattle, USA), my husband basically lived in the room with me for the 2 days I was there. The only time he left was to go home and take a shower, change clothes and feed the cats. I can't even imagine him NOT being able to be there. Our son needed to bond with him too!
@ladygrndr9424 I’m pretty sure most of the babies she killed were premature and in the NICU, neonatal intensive care unit. The babies would stay in those oxygen chambers 24/7, so the parents don’t get to hold them for too long because it would lower their chances of survival. I could be wrong though.
2016, my son was not small, nor weak, in the nicu. Some just have unresolved issues, not premature nor ill My son was the biggest, loudest baby in the nicu for 8 days
Agreed. I took time off work and we kept the baby with us unless absolutely necessary all three times. Luckily none of our kids needed to be in the NICU where that wouldn’t have been possible.
I have watched every single CasCrim episode and this was - by FAR - the most difficult for me to get through. As a mother of 4, this was absolutely gut-wrenching.
Honestly, watching Simon be emotional over this one really hit hard. I usually just hit play and listen to the audio on these videos while I work, and dont let them hit me super hard emotionally. But when Simon started choking up, it made me pause. I'm sure as a young father it was hard to narrate. It's pretty hard to swallow what she did.
A similar accusation has been given to a nurse in the Netherlands a few years back, colleagues of her said a suspicious amount of patients died under her care. She was convicted at first, but after an intens and improved review of the case, she was cleared of all charges and found guilty because she simply hasn’t committed any crimes. The consequences of going through this endeavor and getting all this blame thrown at her severely affected her mental health and she’s living with ptsd ever since, could be a very interesting case to look into as well!!! I feel truly sorry for everything she’s been through, it’s a complete opposite of this case, but with the inclusion of injustice it makes a compelling case to learn from as well! I’m not sure what her name was, but I’m certain it’s easy to find!
A whole life order is worse than the chair in my opinion. She’s basically sentenced to die in prison . I would rather have the chair than that. Why do you think people commit suicide in prison they would rather be dead. Her life in prison will be hell.
I agree that her crimes are egregious enough that she should die. I don't agree, however, that the state should be the ones to do so, given the preponderance of evidence that it does not provide closure to the family of the victims or even serve as a deterrent for crimes. If she were to be shanked in prison, or somehow were to pay her penance of her own accord, however, I would consider it to be justice.
There are two sides to that coin. Executions are cheaper than maintaining a life. That said, her next 240 years behind bars will be a constant state of fear and anxiety over when the next beating, stabbing or strangulation will come. She'll be hunted and torture while the guards turn a blind eye every day until she finds a way to kill herself or someone takes the beating a little too far.
Make her take a shower with Boiling water, or just pour it down her throat If you ever think its too extreme, think about the victims. If you cant realise you believe the life of a serial killer is more important than the tens of victims of hers, its not anybodies problem that you are a monster.
Baby security has gotten MAD serious... We had a police escort with us any time we went somewhere else in the hospital with the newborn. There was also a security band on him (my 3rd btw... 1st child it wasn't quite like this) that if the band broke or was removed... THE ENTIRE HOSPITAL WENT ON LOCK DOWN
@@221b-l3t yea it was an interesting experience for sure, but the police were to keep others away from us as we went to another section of the hospital. They even partially locked down the hospital while we were transferring from where the birth happened to the "new baby" area. Once we got to our room we were told under no circumstances was the baby to leave without staff with the baby and one of the parents. The only time they took him to another area away from us was for his first bath, but we were able to watch through a window.
Mine both had a security band that would alarm if it was removed or they were taken out of the maternity ward. So the nurses had to tell us not to even walk in front of the ward door with the baby, because it was sensitive and would detect the band. I’m all for it.
27:40 Yes, the parents were polite, but I understand that totally. When my husband and I lost our child during pregnancy, we sent the team who treated us a card to thank them. We are so lucky in the UK to have the NHS. This evil person is an anomaly. The fact that this did happen shouldn't take away from the millions of lives saved everyday. They are amazing. I agree that there should be detectives, looking at unusual deaths, in hospitals permanently. Middle and Senior Management are just a waste of valuable NHS resources.
Having lost a premature child in the hospital to "other pre-existing blood conditions" which was missed by all scans prior this story rocked me to my core. Now I'm left questioning every single action my wife and I made in the hospital wondering what actually happened. I'm not in the same country as this monster but I still can't help but wonder.
You did nothing wrong. Your wife did nothing wrong. Sometimes these things happen. The vast majority of healthcare workers are not evil like this "person".
This is heartbreaking. My son was born 16 weeks premature 1lb 5 oz. He was in the NICU for 6 months. This nurses were absolutely my heros. I had put all my trust into them. Thank god they were good ones.
I blame the hospital as well as Letby. The hospital needs to learn its lesson. Stupid stupid humans!! Who cares about saving face when a nurse is killing babies, this is unbelievable!!! Thank you Simon, Dave and Chris! She's a sick human!! I'm in absolute tears, rip beautiful souls!!
I found it very interesting when a forensic psychologist stated he found it almost impossible to believe after all the years she had worked that this was the first hospital she killed in. The doctor she had the “affair/crush” on was also implicated as a reason for her killing, but again the doctor said this was unlikely. Very very sad all those babies were killed and there is no explanation..not that it would make it in any way better. It’s just awful for the families to not have that piece of information too.
I think part of the system "overlooking" Lucy was her high level of nursing abilities, she was one of the few if not only of her level on that floor, the only one allowed to do certain things lower level nurses couldn't
This makes me so sad, and I don't have children. I can't imagine how Simon must have felt reading this. I hope he took some time for self-care after this.
I know a lot of parents have commented saying how much this case is affecting them, and understandably so, but I neither have children nor want them and this case is deeply upsetting to me. I listened to the Daily Mail in depth podcast during the court case and hearing the details is just devastating. This episode was incredibly well written. Thanks guys.
I have never in my life been so thankful for an ad break. Also, can someone please investigate all of her patients? specifically the ones whose paperwork she had in her home
I fell pregnant around the time the court case started. I remember sobbing everyday I heard an update. It was unbearable, I know there will be no true comfort for the families but I hope that one day they will find some peace.
Im sure when you had to deliver your baby you had a lot of trust issues with the nurses and medical staff. I dont blame you. This lady just destroyed the trust we build with our patients... makes me so angry.
@@Alejojojo6 you have no idea. I had one stab me with a needle like it was an EpiPen. I was put in a side room and left to shake because they were too busy to help me deliver my baby. My blood pressure sky rocketed and I nearly had a heart attack. They discharged me too early after I gave birth and I was readmitted to a different hospital. They were shocked at my poor care and told me I could have died.
I have a nursing instructor that worked with peds. You can tell it’s her passion. She was torn up telling us about the one patient that she had that passed away (over 20 years of nursing) & she worked in the PICU. Personally, I want to work in a place without death. I know it would tear me up. I’m not saying nobody ever passes away in inpatient psych, but it is very rare and I am very passionate about mental health. Prayers to all of those parents. ❤
Thank you Simon for covering this so sensitively. Words cannot express how monstrous this case is, but it is important that you and others cover it so that we can be made aware and take action if we ever see something similar so it is never repeated.
I sat in a hospital holding my niece's little girl who was born 2 months premature. she was so little, so fragile and so vulnerable. I thought about her as I listened to this story and it made my heart sore. I understand Simon's emotions on this one because all of us feel the loss of a baby. We feel for the parents and the entire family, the expectation of what might have been. I doubt any of us will ever understand what made this nurse into a killer and perhaps that speaks to the humanity in us and the inhumanity in her.
I read Black Box Thinking and it was really great. A good book that just deals with medical errors is When We Do Harm by Danielle Ofri. It’s not an easy read, but I appreciated after reading it some of the challenges that doctors and medical staff face and how small errors and biases can stack up and cost lives. It was both enlightening and heartbreaking.
This happened in the same hospital that I was born in and that my daughter was later born in. Pretty damned close. Its hit this entire community hard. Thanks for covering this Simon
In my country too (I’m in Europe as well) after giving birth new mothers remain in the hospital for the 24-48h following the birth, exactly so that doctors can monitor and check if there are no post-partum complications for either the mum and/or the baby.
Yessssss❤❤❤❤. Ive been down the rabbit hole this last week catching up on this one. Absolutely crazy how she got away with this for any length of time.
This might be the first true crime podcast where I’ve actually been brought to tears. The mother of those twins 😢I can’t. I hope that evil woman gets what she deserves.
Was wondering how long this one was going to take to make it to CC. Completely surprised today is the day. Whatever she gets is too good for her. Well done Chris and Dave.
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I dint know u has to keep the metal green jar in the fridge ive been keeping it at room temperature can anyone confirm that its not spoiled ???
Your AG1 stuff contains spirulina and kelp, which may trigger a flare up of hyperthyroidism in people who are susceptible to it. It would probably be quite good for people with hypothyroidism.
I need to stop watching - sorry
They need to bring back firing squads
Evil Genius isnt a positive
In Australia I didn’t know much about this case, so thank you for explaining it.
Also kudos getting this and the Prigozhin one out.
Simon: "Computers are really good at ignoring biases"
Every machine learning engineer ever: "THEY'RE REALLY NOT!"
lol This.
After thinking about it, yeah... It is mostly "learned behaviour" isn't it? So like, they could easily "learn" to be biased even if that wasn't the creators intention.
Simon *did* say you need a human, probably that retired detective, thoroughly check what the machine spits out.
@@puredemon5926yes it also really matters what data sets they're trained on, garbage in garbage out.
@@addie1080 True.
I think this is the most emotional I have heard Simon be for one of these. Please let the next script be a fun heist, just for Simon’s mental health sake
Yeah -we need- Simon needs heist scripts a bit more often.
What we NEED is for him to do one on Cowboy Bob! It is PER-FECT for this channel: crazy string of bank robberies, nobody dies ....well, not until the end, but there's also a twist almost too good to believe.
I want to write Simon a script about the Killdozer
Agreed, some of these dark dark dark scripts are all well and good to get a better understanding of what happened. But it can be really heavy at times.
A heist script sounds more fun.
Hope Simon is okay after this one.
@@audreymuzingo933the name alone has me intrigued. COWBOY BOB!!
When I was just starting out as a nurse, one of the hardest but most important lessons I learned was to admit when you've made a mistake. It's terrifying going to your senior and saying "I gave this person the wrong medication" and yeah, sometimes nothing comes of it (I'm looking at you, staffing issues). But having that culture where you can admit mistakes or report issues without being blamed is absolutely CRUCIAL to healthcare. I sincerely hope every single person who dismissed someone's concerns in this case gets the whole bloody book thrown at them too.
I had been a nurse about 3 years when 22 year old pregnant woman (33 wks) came in complaining of severe abdominal pain and cramps... pretty common right? Immediately think Braxton hicks but its Irregular contractions with half cm dilated and soft cervix and so she's admitted. So now we have threatened preterm labor. Was waiting for ultrasound when she went unconscious and was vomiting. We got her back and rushed her to imaging. She had rupture of the uterine venous plexus with ovarian rupture.
She didn't make it through the surgery. Nicu tried like hell to save the babe but his little lungs just couldn't manage.
I had just came back to work after having a miscarriage from a placental abruption at 16 weeks with my daughter. Then losing the mom and baby boy was too much for me. Two days later I gave my 2 week notice.
Spent a few years at home with my son then returned to university to go into early childhood education. Loved it but diagnosed with lupus then four years later MS ended my career.
As a jaw surgery patient whose nurse didn’t read the medicine directions that said to *dilute heavily* before administering orally, I greatly appreciate nurses and doctors who are willing to admit when they have made a mistake. Because then they can learn from them and become better.
Heck, when I was born I needed a hip brace and I was my orthopedist’s very first patient after becoming a doctor. He was so nervous he put my brace on backwards the first visit. I still go to see him 30 years later, he’s a great doctor.
@eileenayers5723 It might also be that hospital, doesn't necessarily mean the entire UK is like that. But I haven't been to a hospital in the UK, no idea. Probably came close once as a little boy trying to climb up the ratlines on HMS Victory. Barely got one rung up before someone yelled "hey!!".
I can't even believe anyone would rather ignore the lives of babies so they didn't get the media of a police investigation. That feels like it has to be the highest level of malpractice or just completely desecrating the Hippocratic oath.
I totally second that. When I was choosing a hospital for cancer treatment (in France) one of the questions I asked (including to the 'big boss' of the unit) was if they ever made mistakes, and how they acted when mistakes had been made. My very hard working French GP would have been visiting regularly if I'd been hospitalised (he's my medical proxy) and he would have been very nosy (much better than the idea of a detective in the hospital, as he would have known what he was looking at ) and would have been giving them Hell if they'd cocked up, and would have had it sorted out (or would have pressed charges on my behalf if I'd been unable to).
Just wanted to thank everybody for all the amazing feedback. I wish I could respond to everybody, but, there just isn’t time. This is, without a doubt, the hardest one I have ever had to write, including the one about the Dunblane shootings.
Great writing. Very sad episode :(
But we the community thank you for your scripts :) i've thuroughly enjoyed your writings on this channel. Hope you're doing okay, mentaly mostly since you're writing about all these crimes and stuff. 😊
Thank you Dave, and Thank you Simon for giving this more exposure. I've not listened yet, but I know it'll be done with both passion, and care.
Can you not hear your own rhetoric ? " A mother nearly caught LL in the act of murdering her baby ? What a stupid way to use words You either catch some one in the act or you do not ,there is no near . Remember there was no complaint against LL made by any parent ,there was of the hospital, but not LL until the police told them they suspected her . Babies often bleed at mouth with in tube difficult to fit in a small child , remember also babies have no developed immune system ,so not surprising they die like flies , if there is a problem with sterilisation of kit etc . There was a case very similar in Holland nurse charged 5 murders later acquitted the science was BS ,just like LL case . total BS like some thing out of the middle ages .
@@rolandhawken6628Wow. Are you seriously defending a convicted child serial killer by attacking the person who wrote a script about her actions (from a creator who provides you with countless hours of content at no cost to you)?!
THIS sounds like a ridiculous choice of words. To say nothing of your use of punctuation and grammar.
@@beckobean Yawn , another post ? You are a child , an absolute child . Barry George was a convicted killer freed 8 years later . The Guilford 4 convicted then released . I could go on all day long with miscarriages of justice . In this first quarter century 549 convictions have been overturned in Britain a high percentage being murder trials . but hey people like you are far more interested in grammar, which incidentally fails in all languages Yes I am defending her because she was tried by distorted press reports before she entered the court , and I will continue to do so . Even with bad my grammar
Hearing Simon's voice strain during his reading of the statement given by Baby A & B's Mother broke my heart. This was a truly horrific case.
Rarely does an episode of TCC make me cry.
It is tragic that these parents believe their babies were murdered when there is simply no evidence for it.
@@ruthbashford3176and what other explanation is there? The babies care was interfered with - which is murder. Lucy was there EVERY single time. Their deaths were not properly investigated at the time, but they have been now, and they point towards those babies being murdered. What else would you call someone purposefully harming babies that then leads to death?
Incredibly speedy writing and editing. Bravo, Dave and Chris!
Thanks dude! I'm tired lol
You're so pretty.
Have to get those clicks from trending news.
the trial began in October 2022, so it's not like the details were revealed last week
@@maht0x This video was written, recorded, edited, and proofed in 5~ days. Normally, my Casual Criminalist scripts take weeks to write and weeks more to make it through the entire filming/editing pipeline.
I literally felt physical pain when Simon said "computers are really good at ignoring biases".
Computers and statistical models are. AI models trained on data fed to them by humans very much are not. As they say, shit in, shit out.
Even statistical models are prone to bias as it's the human that designs the model and decides what to put in there. If the human has biases (which everyone does) the model will too.
@@heatherdbcooper Yeah, I was gonna reply that too but I read the reply by fricky at like 4am, immediately fell asleep again and forgot, lol.
This is less a Thanks and more of a "My Condolences" because it's so obvious how much this episode in particular bothered you. You have my respect for getting through the telling of this horror, and you deserve more. I just hope you were able to finish filming this and sign off for the day so you could go and love your kids until you felt better, and hug them a while longer. I hope your next few videos can be of lighter topics, like some heists.
Reading this comment hugging my kid ❤ 😢 max respect to Simon for reading the script and holding it together..... I have snot bubbles
he coulda sent thanks at least instead of advertising shrek jizz
It was hard to hear the distress in Simon's voice.
I hope he was able to take some time to just stop and de-stress in private before he was back making any pod casts or posting on this channel.
I had twins, premature, in 2015. Parents put so much trust in the doctors and nurses that are responsible for taking care of their babies. This story is so heartbreaking
Ms Letby has caused great harm to the nursing profession- nurses do have immense trust from patients and also wield tremendous power in the care they provide to patients care that requires specialized education and a desire to help and not cause harm, the hospital where she worked was negligent IMO, the nurse managers should have picked up on at least her dangerous incompetence, newborn deaths are extremely rare considering their fragility if in ICU, after the second death she should have been placed under strict supervision for at least 3 months, she may have left and gone elsewhere as she is a psychopath of the worst kind.
@@idacoetzeeShe abused that trust
I agree with Simon that there should be some sort of detective in hospitals. Not just to prevent another Letby, but also for domestic abuse victims, kids who are being harmed, elder abuse, etc. So many things could be caught if there were more eyes on these things.
I think AI would be better. Sure it will have false positives but a investigation will disapprove the findings. The medical field has a severe lack of accountability for their negligence.
There are teams that are supposed to do this. The issue is the culture in the nhs. If anything is thought to bring the reputation into disrepute it gets hushed up. I’m a social worker in a hospital and some of the things you hear are horrendous.
Totally agree, this should be a reality check that psychopaths are everywhere, and people should be investigated once suspicion is raised..
Because lets be honest, if police has suspicion that i deal drugs, im being investigated for sure.. butwhen baby after baby dies, its being neglected?
Where is the principle of "protecting the citizens"? Let alone nurse and take care, but im gonna be honest, it feels like they rather sweep it under the rug than to investigate... because other malpractions might come to light
@@serifz8700i didnt read your comment, but my suspicion sadly feels more true now...
A crazy world we live in... but lets all try to come together to fight these demons in human form!
Then there's also that case where a child was taken away from her family because she was beig medicated with ketamine. Her parents had worked with a doctor for a long time to help manage her illness with it and it was the only thing that worked. The child protective services person in the hospital decided they were abusing her by drugging her and she died in the hospital.
As with all CC eps, I'm sure this is fantastic. Unfortunately, I had to stop before Simon barely finished the intro. I'm a former NICU mom & I thought I could handle this, but too many emotions flooded me at once. One of our now 8 y/o twins spent his first 6 weeks in hospital & had open heart surgery at 4 weeks. Those NICU doctors & nurses (the entirety of the staff, really) were essentially his stand-in family as we could only be with him for a few meager hours a day during the scariest time of our lives. NICU carers are truly a different breed & to our family, actual heroes. This woman is a monster & a disgrace.
To all the NICU families you are amazing. To NICU providers- you are unparalleled in your field. Can't wait for the next CC; fingers crossed for heist hijinks. I think Simon & the team could use it🧡
I have 3 children who were in nicu for various reasons. I forced myself to listen to the entire thing. My heart goes out to all the family's who have shared our pain. But more so to the victims of monsters like her and genean Anne jones.
💜
Not saying you should, but if you ever do decide to watch this episode, it is the best one they've ever done in reference to tact and information selection. It's the only video where I've seen Simon break but read every word because those words were important. Dave did an excellent job of painting Letby as a monster without editorializing and pruning all of the emotional information to just a few quotes that made his point well. If you never watch it, be assured that the people who learn about this case from this video are learning about it at the right level. Glad the NICUs for your boys were who they were supposed to be. I could definitely go for a heist, too.
My wife and I were lucky enough to have three healthy babies. When I try to imagine what it must have been like to be in your shoes… that emotion is so vast, dark and terrifying I have a hard time feeling that I can comprehend it.
You’ve had experience through which you found an extraordinary level of strength.
Good health to your family!
I can't even start listening... I couldn't stand fiction where babies die, and now being pregnant listening about a real story is wayyyyy too much to me.
The fact that so many people tried to raise suspicions and were constantly turned down is insane
It's not uncommon. Hospitals never want to admit they've got a killer in their midst. It would mean a massive loss of reputation, because by the time anyone even voices a suspicion they usually would have to face the "why did not one realize anything was wrong sooner?" question. I've seen so many cases where it happened I can't be surprised by it anymore. I just feel sad about it.
You have no idea what it may have been like to have known her as they did. It would have been absolutely beyond any conceivable notion that she would have been in any way deliberately responsible
@@TheJthom9This is a stupid take and you should feel bad. My God, dude. And I bet the people who defended Bundy were just as positive that he could never have ever done that, he's not like that at all!!
All the babies died under her watch. She was witnessed in the room several times just before they died. She was even caught hovering over a baby that happened to die when she wasn't even on shift. There were relative piles of evidence just based on firsthand witnesses of her crimes. There is no excuse for denying what happened, and giving one to the hospital is sick. You are sick.
It’s been very satisfying, from the perspective of a father of older children, to see Simon’s metamorphosis as a Dad. A few years back things didn’t hit him this hard. Just like me, all you have to do is talk about someone harming kids and we’re done. Proud of you Fact Dad.
@@221b-l3tWas there a point to your statement other than bringing up a few common sense level points? You might have limited your response to “I don’t want to deal with the inconvenience of raising children. I’d rather focus on myself; but I’m empathetic enough to recognize that children should not be harmed. It still would not have been pertinent; nobody cares if you want to have kids, and everybody knows many parents are unfit. At least it would have been a less revealing exercise in idiocy.
Having kids changes you, and people have gone through the process sometimes feel a sense of camaraderie when one parent demonstrates those changes to another. I didn’t mindlessly have kids because “that’s just what you do.” I never wanted to be a parent, I stepped up to my responsibility, used it as a path to personal growth, and have come out much better for it. Perhaps it surprises you, but many pregnancies are unplanned. I would venture that the people that actually try to become parents willingly are probably more prepared than those who do not. As they say, if you know you know. You most certainly do not know. It’s absolutely your right to decide that you never want to know, that you want to live your life unencumbered . I would suggest that you banish this idea that you have a valuable take like: “Kids are expensive and don’t take direction as well as a sail boat” from your mind. You just look silly.
Fact Boy has indeed grown up to Fact Dad :) ❤
@@221b-l3t you will literally never understand just using "empathy". If you ain't a parent, you can't know.
@@221b-l3tabsolutely see your point and agree with you, for men or women but this wasn't the point that "battlebeard" was making. I have friends that have chosen not to be parents (for different reasons to yours) but I am one of the few who haven't asked why not - she did tell me eventually and she loved when also reminded her that it was none of mine or anyone's business. Others are to quick to judge and accuse others of selfishness for not following the "norm". And yes many times I wish I'd stuck to dogs or gone on cruises but I'm an honest parent - to myself, not the kids 😅 "battlebeard" was talking about the change in Simon not that people can only relate if they have kids. 💜
@@221b-l3t 😲 Way too much thinking going on (although I generally agree). Just lay back, enjoy the boat and worry another day 💜
I am a retired nurse and yes, patients have died infrequently on my duty shift. I did take time off to process the loss as I was working in the Oncology Unit and I became very close to the patients and their families. It is very hard emotionally when you lose a patient you have worked with for months.
I remember my mom talking about the first time she had to deal with a resident dying who had a DNR. (nursing home CNA) She was forced to sit here and hold her hand and just watch the last bits of life just leave. The hurt she was feeling was just awful
I lost my husband 7 weeks ago, to complications of his heart condition. When someone is so very ill, so medically fragile, you do rely on the medical staff a lot. Fortunately, the doctors and nurses caring for my husband were amazing, and some stood out as exceptional. I am truly grateful for their efforts, even though the outcome wasn't what anyone wanted. Even his cardiologist was, in his own words, "quite upset" over the death of this kind, gentle, funny, intelligent, likeable guy.
I can't even imagine what my reaction would be if I learned my loved one's death was intentional at the hands of someone who was supposed to save them.
Scum like Letby tarnish the reputation of a trusted profession. I truly hope her days are miserable, because the days of the parents whose children died will be, and it's her fault.
As a medical student, those doctors were threatened with the GMC for “bullying and harassment” being silenced is far too common and normal - and to make matters worse, the GMC released a document about being “kind” a few days later and how colleagues should be “kind” to one another… no one was punished for threatening those doctors or sweeping under the rug. And it makes me anxious and my blood boil for the future
Same thing happens in elderly care. I know someone who got reprimanded and eventually fired for “bullying” because they wouldn’t let their colleagues get away with neglecting the elderly people in their care. People would leave them lying in their own filth out of pure laziness. There’s no accountability.
Simon the emotion and empathy with which you read these scripts is unparalleled. Thank you for this coverage!
That was absolutely devastating, Simon. I am a Mother and the thought of harming a tiny vulnerable baby just does not compute.I went through some tissues, only more so because of your perfect tone and reactions. Well done everyone who helped put this together. Definitely woke my big orange cat and hugged him for a long time.
As a mother as well you said everything I felt while listening to Simon read this horrible story.
Your cat let you do that?
I've known a few 'iron maiden' nurses in my time. Not one of them wouldn't have quit & gone to work in the lobby gift shop after the death of kid#2! It takes a level of coldness that goes beyond human not to be haunted by such a loss.
I'm not a mother and I still went through some tissues myself. I don't understand why anyone would hurt a premature baby and their whole family. Imagine the trauma these families, especially the mothers, have gone through. First, living through giving birth to a premature baby, then the loss of that baby, then the possibility of a postnatal depression, and trying to deal with life and other people while their bodies readjust hormonally. Then the shock that their children were murdered, and guilt again because they think they should have protected their children. And reliving the nightmare by retelling their stories to the cops and media and the court.
I seriously would have lost my mind. My heart goes to all the families and mothers who've went through such a nightmare.
@@vic5015 yes! He's really special lol
This episode was rough. I have no children of my own, so I can't imagine the devastation the parents in this story endured. However, my older brother died from AML when he was five and I was three. His passing still haunts our family to this day, over five decades later. The phrase that was repeated over and over again, (long before it was said in "The Two Towers), was, "No parent should ever outlive their child." I can only hope that the parents of the victims in this story are able to find some small measure of peace.
I was supposed to have a third sister. She was stillborn. We just about lost Mom, too. We were *devastated.* And this was natural causes. If it'd been murder... I might have a record for assault.
I'm so sorry you went through that. With children I always catch myself thinking, "gosh they'd be X age now, they'd have had X milestone." I had a friend pass when we were in school, not even a really close friend but someone I very much liked and admired. Every big milestone since, I've thought of her. When I went to uni, moved away from home, started attending the weddings of friends. It's impossible not to. I'm sure it always feels like he's with you, and yet the picture is never quite complete.
I didn’t lose a sibling at a young age, but I know how devastating it can be to lose a sibling. My older brother committed suicide at 19 years old and it tore my family apart. My dad has never recovered from it. Even now almost 20 years later, he’s still broken as are all my other siblings and myself. We all said the same thing too “no parent should ever outlive their child”. It got easier for me and my siblings over time to move on with our lives, as we know that’s what he would of wanted, but it still hurts thinking about him. I never got to tell him I was gay, he never got to meet my husband or any of our nephews or our niece.
I’m sending as much love as possible to you and your family.
- from a random person on the internet who shares a similar pain.
Ditto. I have 3 kids. The first, now 21, spent the first 2 weeks of his life in NICU because he was premature. When I heard this story, my blood ran cold.
"In peace, Sons bury their fathers. In war, Fathers bury their Sons." - Latin Proverb
It's why child killers are usually targeted.
How evil do you have to be to be able to harm, let alone kill a defenseless baby? I have no kids myself, but thie episode makes me want to go and hug a kid in my family. Thanks for your hard and excellent work to Dave, Chris and Simon!❤
Why would the management thinking be above a DR or other nurses.
Not even just a baby but a neonatal baby. Maybe that would make it "easier" for some? Idk I just know how completely helpless they look and remember my little niece being born. I can understand a nurse being able to do things that hurt an infant but save their life, I can't comprehend delighting in killing them so people will feel bad for YOU
This type of serial killer can be thought of something like an arsonist who is a firefighter. He sets the fire and then comes to the rescue. This is one of the main archetypes of serial killers in a healthcare environment called the malignant hero. They put someone in danger and they then try or fein an effort to save them to be seen as competent or selfless. Although in her case there seems to be some sadism thrown in there too.
@@TheMrcbritt2 but she notably didn't try to save them
@@dismurrart6648 we know that some of it was deliberate (by deliberate I mean she set out to kill with no intent to save) and was probably done to cover up the other murders (the targeting of twins particularly since it can be more easily ascribed to some rare genetic disorder) but she had checkout sheets for a whole load of other patients. We know she tried to kill more then she actually did and the behavior probably escalated over time. Just like other serial killers the behavior escalates over time because they no longer get their perverse gratification from the more minor endangerment.
The other thing it could be is something called Munchhausen by proxy. Which is kind of like the malignant hero but for sympathy and attention.
“Thank you” to Simon for always being So compassionate and respectful in covering this content.
“Thank you” to Dave for a well-written script and for working on the weekend.
Thanks also to the Chap helping Jen!
How is he compassionate when he's laughing in the begging and talking about how much money he sent to the scriptwriter, it's all about making money.
@@oliviaelley6375Because this is his job olivia, i appreciate simon being candid and honest in rhis video instead of affecting some fake seriousness as you can tell that the story is really impacting him as he jokes less .
Sadly everything is about money, not simons fault and certainly not to his detriment.
Letby is only the fourth woman to receive a whole life order. She definitely deserves it.
Day 30 of the Daily Mail's coverage of the trial of Lucy Letby and evidence implicating Lucy Letby is still yet to be put before the court.
How do you really know?
Im guessing the other 2 are rose west and myra hindly whos the 3rd
@@nickm8810 I still don't think RW killed all those girls...but she may have known about it. Obstruction of justice and accessory ...but serial killer? That was her sick twisted husband. She was wrong and deserved prison but the over branding of her is kind of ridiculous and unfair.
@@nickm8810 Yes those two and Joanna Denehy or however you spell her name.
My twins were in the nicu for 68 and 121 days. My daughter has had 5 brain surgeries and I’ve had to place her in the arms of medical staff and ask them to save her more times than i want to think about. I had to take a lot of breaks during this one.
Christ, as a father of 4 that's experienced some pretty damn scary moments myself...I truly feel for you
Most medical staff would care for your kids 99.99% of them, as one I think this is awful what this crazy woman did. Breaks trust on all of us as well.
Thank you Dave, Chris and Simon for putting this episode together.
One of the parents who's daughter had suffered a few attempts from Letby said her eyes suddenly changed from content to sadness all the time. Imagine that little baby going through all of that horror and not being able to communicate that to her mummy. Just breaks my heart.
Hearing Simons voice cracking trying to make it through reading those horrific events broke me heart. It’s so clear what a loving father he is and it was so clearly heartbreaking for him to even conceptualize someone harming such an innocent being.
Kudos to the team for getting this done so quickly
the trial began in October 2022, so it's not like the details were revealed last week
I honestly just want to give Simon a hug. I'm a new parent and I can hear the horror and pain in his voice. Its so hard to understand how anyone could do something like this.
Great episode. Good job guys! ❤
It makes me shudder that my son was born at the Countess of Chester hospital just 2 years before Letby started working there. It's terrifying to think what could have happened if he'd been born after.
if he wasn't prem then no issue. She only dealt with highly premature babies
There were other nurses at the time in that department
Lucy worked in my local hospital, and the amount of people in, including my own mum, who had children during the time she was on this spree here is genuinely scary to think about
kudos to the whole team for putting this together so quickly, especially Dave - fantastic writing as usual. I was really close to crying during this, especially the victim statement, the fact that someone could do this is so evil and totally unexplainable. I definitely think something should happen to the higher ups who ignored this and let it continue to happen
Sadly, most hospital admins are former doctors and as such have awoken many a morning to a huge flashing neon sign that reads: PATIENTS DIE!
Their brains cannot make the Brocarian leap to the cop side of awareness that questions 'why are they dead?'
@@danieljob3184Patients do die but if you can see the same lady at every scene and have multiple times been asked to investigate.. it's no longer just a lack of ability to leap it's almost enabling.
I love your videos.
My son was in the Neonatal for 2 months in the countess of cheshire when he was born at 27 weeks in 2021. I'd vaguely heard about her in the years before but I hadn't put 2 and 2 together and I thought it was on the Labour and delivery ward it all happened.
I feel awful for the parents who this monster took away their innocent babies.
I would like to say that all the staff that are there now are absolutely lovely and they now have a newly updated unit next to the old one.
I hope she rots in jail.
She’ll most likely have to be in solitary or protective custody, as the general population would be out for her blood soon after arriving
Hope your little one and your family are doing well.
We are currently 13 days into Neonatal, our boy was also 27 weeks at birth.
It's a roller coaster isn't it?? I have huge respect for any parents that have had to go through it. Not to mention the preemie themselves - absolute warriors 💪
@@SugarandSarcasm A general term for these 'people' (at least in Australia - could be used elsewhere) is 'Rock Spiders', because those who harm children are considered the lowest type of lifeform. She will not have a relatively pleasant life in prison, even in solitary or protective custody.
@@nanhunter87sending you love and hoping that you're taking care of yourself, too.
She started her placement at the Countess in June 2010. I had a baby there in November 2010. I have vague memories of her but there were other nurses I remember far better. Dr Ravi Jayaram, whistleblower, was my kid's paediatrician for a few years. It's odd to think about.
Wasn't expecting an episode on it that quick, she's still all over the news
My son-in-law is a research biologist and works for one of the large hospitals in a large American city. He's doing that very thing with all the hospital's data.
I just hope if it becomes a thing and is used, people dont forget about computer bias; like where it takes all ofnthe information and puts together a case to say 'this person is super fucking sus' but theres actually a logical human reason for what happened that a computer couldnt understand and therefore register.
And that they dont just take the word of the computers results in diagnosing something multiple patients have in common, like the markings the babies had. I mean, have you ever been sick and googled your symptoms and been told youve got like the plague or something? A computer might go for leprosy in this instance, and i hope there is human thought, reasoning, and knowledge then put into the results to get past the idea the program would always be 100% correct.
Jeez, sadly i could see administration telling their staff 'trust the computer, the computer knows all' because hospitals are often stupudly run by people with business degrees, not medical ones.
@@heyysimoneyes, this was my thought when Simon was talking! AI is biased because humans are biased. Crunching the numbers is really important, finding trends is very useful, but understanding that computers are tools with limitations is necessary.
Good!
as a doctor who previously worked in NICU, this is simply heartbreaking.
As a doctor, can you answer how does one posthumously determine a baby has been injected with air? Is this something that is easily revealed at autopsy?
@@chickenlover657 unfortunately that’s part of forensic pathology, which I didn’t study. going about it from basics, the process would create air embolisms, which are basically air bubbles floating in the vessels until they get stuck and cut off blood flow to whatever’s downstream. I’d expect so see signs of infarction but no actual blood clot, since the culprit would be air in this case.
@@Emcron Thanks for your reply.
I just want to say....
"WELL DONE SIMON."....
For being able to keep his composure whilst he read all of that script....
There has been many times where I have seen Simon looking disturbed & uncomfortable when reading through a script....
Though this time you could clearly see that this case was hitting him much deeper....
You could hear it in his voice together with his deflated body language....
I really felt for him....
And just like myself....
Feelings of Anger, disgust, horror & deep deep sorrow & tears....
I'm sure that the same can be said for everyone who has just watched this....
Infact....
I felt the punch much more listening to Daves' analogy of events than I did when I 1st heard about it....
So....
"WELL DONE TO DAVE TOO."
Gosh, the testimony of the mother of Baby A and Baby B brought me to tears. And I hardly ever cry.
Dear God, that poor woman. I just want to hold her close and take her pain away and I know that I can't. My God.
Yea that’s a nightmare of a memory to have to diminish for the remainder of your life. I don’t know how one heals from such an attack on their family.
Hearing that Simon and his wife walked to the hospital while she was in labor is the craziest thing about this episode
I kinda thought the deaths of 7 babies was the craziest thing about this episode.
@@paulmaddison6193this is an episode about Lucy Letby on a channel that covers serial killers. Hearing about her crimes wasn't crazy or unexpected.
Brakston Hicks contractions are common. Walking is the treatment of choice.
No, it's not.
My coworker drover her self and stopped for gas and a sub at wawa before she went in was literally dying laughing.
When I first heard about this case in the news, I was like, “My God, it’s Beverley Allitt all over again!” Clearly, lessons from over 30 years ago have still not been learned!
Because drs nurses and such hold a position that comes with excessive levels of admiration. Much like football players.
I was thinking of her the whole time! It's almost like Letby was trying to reenact Allitt!! Horrible ppl and I just nauseated at the thought of what those parents went through!
Exactly right, hospitals really need something in place to proactively detect when deaths go up, so they can be investigated by an independent party.
Right and shipmen you would think after that they would be way more strict
@@MrDragon7742they do. There are audits done on all deaths, whistleblowing programs for hospitals and professional colleges. If you remember the doctor tried to alert his higher ups but they ignored him
This is one of those cases that always make me cry, no matter how many podcast I heard about it. Hospital's negligence is appalling. They should have done so much more.
It warms my heart every time the editor uses a starwars clip on any of Simons videos.
I don't usually comment, I've watched true crime series and shows for well over 15 years, I don't usually get emotional but this one moved me to tears. Thank you for telling this story may that disgusting person rot in jail forever.
I do not believe Lucy Letby will last in jail. She will be on a suicide watch, try at some time to take her own life, or be attacked by fellow prisoners. Forever despised, those who hurt and kill children do not last long in prison.
This video almost got me and I'm super jaded. Can't imagine how normal people react.
Been waiting for this case, thank you Simon, Dave, and Jen for all of your work!
“Been waiting”? It only happened a few days ago!
@@GIBBO4182 it happened a while ago, its only just came up unless im thinking of "the angle of death" the other female nurse killer
@@tropixi5336 she was only found guilty a few days ago, there wasn’t really a “case” until then. There is another nurse who did this. Beverley Allott, I think, spelling might not be 100%
@@GIBBO4182 i watched a documentary about the other person i they have the same crime i thought it was her
@@tropixi5336 👍
I have watched every episode of Casual Criminalist but rarely comment - this one is worthy of it.
From the incredible speed of its release, the content, the delivery and the editing - this one hits hard. I'm personally not a parent and I never will be, I don't normally feel particularly drawn to children or babies but this one still hurt. Particularly hearing Simon read it with such emotion literally brought tears to my eyes. Brilliant words powerfully read - and I also hope she has quite a horrible time in prison indeed.
Thanks for this one!
THANK you for bringing up black box thinking as creating a way for people to admit to mistakes or suspicions is ESSENTIAL for creating a safe environment.
It’s actually not totally unheard of for NICU nurses to have violent impulses towards babies, I imagine for similar reasons that new mothers do; exhaustion, stress, and intense hormones can break people’s brains. obviously it’s horrifying to talk about, but equally obviously you’ve GOT to able to talk about those feelings if you start having them so you can get help and not endanger anyone.
My firstborn was born in 2016. I can't even imagine my life without him. I grieve for all the families that lost the chance to watch their children grow up, and pray that this never happens again
God, as a mother of twins, hearing about the twins where one was killed and the other survived hits me so hard. Even as newborns, one of them losing the other would be such a devastating trauma that they'd never be able to remember, but it would be so profound that it would affect every aspect of their life. The bond between all twins (likely all multiples, but I only have twins), not just identicals, is the most unique thing I've ever had the privilege to witness.
It’s hideous…. and that she wanted to kill the second twin too it’s like she enjoyed hurting the parents and watching them loose their babies
Not only that; the surviving twin will undoubtedly learn that their sibling was murdered. They didn't just die from being too premature or 'natural' health complications - they were doing well and would have lived.
@@helenalovelock1030 she definitely enjoyed their pain. she would even look them up on anniversaries on places like fcbk.
If you want to be further outraged by medical misconduct Simon, look into the Baby Ross case going on in Georgia. The ENTIRE admn of that hospital and some of the staff should be facing charges😢😢
Just looked that up, and holy actual christ
Holy fuck I wasn’t ready for that
What the hell - seriously, how can those people sleep at night
Shout out to the funeral home who sent out the alarm bells when first seeing the baby , they saw the state of the baby and immediately said that it was “unusual” the medical examiners office hadn’t been involved, thanks to them the chief medical examiner was involved then the Georgia Bureau of Investigation also took on the case….the hospital/staff absolutely deserve a law suit and PRISON …they tried to sweep it under the rug, just disgusting 😢
For a person to be given a "for life sentence" is rare.
For them to be given multiple almost never happens.
She completely deserves it.
I’m sorry but the fact you put it in quotes but got the phrase completely wrong is pretty funny
The term here is whole life order or whole life tariff
An extra big thank you to Dave, for providing us a script in record speed (in spite of Simon's pressure), and to the editor Chris, for making the viewing experience enjoyable, and lightening the mood occasionally. We need it in these ones.
The story reminds me of Lucia de Berk, a nurse in the Netherlands. She got a life sentence for the death of multiple babies, but after many more years of research she got exonerated. Statistics played a large role in the case.
Wow, to get accused of murder based on statistics!
@@gaz8891The statistics expert that helped get her released has already said that he believes this case is similar in that people are blaming her for a statistical fluke.
@@martine5604Except Letby also had hospital records of her victims in her home and the deaths kept being all “accidental” and “unexpected” and Letby was on duty all those times, whereas the case of de Berk it was poisonings that could be misinterpreted in toxicology reports thereby giving wrong info on the causes of death, and de Berk wasn’t always around when these deaths occurred.
Yeah Lucia de Berk was the night/sleep shift nurse one wasn't she? She was exonerated when the statistics shown that it was her shift time that was the actual factor why more people died on her shift instead of her as a person. In the trial where she was found guilty the prosecution used some statistics that were completely wrong. They didn't look at the different chances of death between shifts and also inflated the ammount of suspicious death on her shifts only.
5:15 - Chapter 1 - Who is lucy letby
9:15 - Mid roll ads
11:10 - Chapter 2 - The killing spree
25:50 - Chapter 3 - The investigation
28:55 - Chapter 4 - Trial , conviction & sentencing
Chapter 5, Baby killing personification of evil lives in hell for eternity.
Bless you
@@ciom9065 Trust me. Hell doesn't begin to describe it. Every single prisoner, and every single screw will know exactly what she did. They're rubbing their hands together at the thought of her being in their prison. And it is the women's prison. Not the screws. Justice will be served.
@@HumanityisEmbarrassingwomen's prison is a lot different than men's. And a lot of them are in for killing their own children. Don't be so sure. I've heard first hand account of women coexisting and making heinous criminals and calling them "mom" or "grandma" while they're locked up
@@HumanityisEmbarrassingHow do you know she did it?
9 minutes of tangents and a two minute commercial before Simon even got to the story! I love this guy!!!! ❤😂
2 of my 3 kids have had a NICU stay, my youngest is 3 weeks old today and spent the first 7 days in NICU. I’m so grateful for the care he received at our hospital, and can’t imagine what those parents must feel ever day.
I was personally in the NICU as a 32 week preemie at 4lbs 5oz when I was born and then the next generation turned around and did the same thing when my niece was born at 5lbs. The idea of having lost my niece or my parents having lost me is terrifying and heartbreaking. Shoutout to Simon for making it through this. Hope you took a break and hugged the kiddos a little tighter after this one.
The thing with putting all the hospital data into machine learning is that it requires good record keeping (something medical professionals are often terrible at) and incidents being reported correctly. I dont know what incident reporting methods other hospitals use but the one at the trust I work for is clunky, unstable and painfully slow so often incidents dont even get reported because people simply run out of time in their day to report what might seem to be minor issues or near misses at the time.
Holy heck. Dave, Simon, and Chris... amazing work! That was so damn fast!
I’m not someone who who has any interest in having children of my own, but most of my friends are having their first babies at the moment and I’m so happy for them, seeing all the tiny new lives that bring them so much joy. It made this one so much harder to hear, thinking of someone taking that away from the parents so callously, doing it to the most innocent and vulnerable, there’s no way to make it make sense. It’s just madness
The fact that you can’t be with your wife and child 24/7 afterwards that’s insane to me. 2 hours a day to see my wife and child? Have to have a couple big security guards.
Is that in the UK? Where I gave birth (just outside of Seattle, USA), my husband basically lived in the room with me for the 2 days I was there. The only time he left was to go home and take a shower, change clothes and feed the cats. I can't even imagine him NOT being able to be there. Our son needed to bond with him too!
@@ladygrndr9424prague where Simon lives
@ladygrndr9424 I’m pretty sure most of the babies she killed were premature and in the NICU, neonatal intensive care unit. The babies would stay in those oxygen chambers 24/7, so the parents don’t get to hold them for too long because it would lower their chances of survival. I could be wrong though.
2016, my son was not small, nor weak, in the nicu. Some just have unresolved issues, not premature nor ill
My son was the biggest, loudest baby in the nicu for 8 days
Agreed. I took time off work and we kept the baby with us unless absolutely necessary all three times. Luckily none of our kids needed to be in the NICU where that wouldn’t have been possible.
Just checking in to make sure I’ve not missed a new upload
I have watched every single CasCrim episode and this was - by FAR - the most difficult for me to get through. As a mother of 4, this was absolutely gut-wrenching.
Honestly, watching Simon be emotional over this one really hit hard. I usually just hit play and listen to the audio on these videos while I work, and dont let them hit me super hard emotionally. But when Simon started choking up, it made me pause. I'm sure as a young father it was hard to narrate. It's pretty hard to swallow what she did.
Take care of yourself Simon. We appreciate your hard work on this channel!
Fact boy and the team will never stop making us fear hospitals😅😅😅😅😅😅😅
A similar accusation has been given to a nurse in the Netherlands a few years back, colleagues of her said a suspicious amount of patients died under her care. She was convicted at first, but after an intens and improved review of the case, she was cleared of all charges and found guilty because she simply hasn’t committed any crimes. The consequences of going through this endeavor and getting all this blame thrown at her severely affected her mental health and she’s living with ptsd ever since, could be a very interesting case to look into as well!!!
I feel truly sorry for everything she’s been through, it’s a complete opposite of this case, but with the inclusion of injustice it makes a compelling case to learn from as well!
I’m not sure what her name was, but I’m certain it’s easy to find!
The fact that Simon got choked up was very touching. I luv Simon.❤️❤️❤️
Strap her to the chair. I'm on that side with you, Simon. This is so sickening.
That mum who never even got to hold her baby...
A whole life order is worse than the chair in my opinion. She’s basically sentenced to die in prison . I would rather have the chair than that. Why do you think people commit suicide in prison they would rather be dead. Her life in prison will be hell.
I agree that her crimes are egregious enough that she should die. I don't agree, however, that the state should be the ones to do so, given the preponderance of evidence that it does not provide closure to the family of the victims or even serve as a deterrent for crimes. If she were to be shanked in prison, or somehow were to pay her penance of her own accord, however, I would consider it to be justice.
There are two sides to that coin. Executions are cheaper than maintaining a life. That said, her next 240 years behind bars will be a constant state of fear and anxiety over when the next beating, stabbing or strangulation will come. She'll be hunted and torture while the guards turn a blind eye every day until she finds a way to kill herself or someone takes the beating a little too far.
@@dhawthorne1634She's basically guaranteed to be in isolation for good
Make her take a shower with Boiling water, or just pour it down her throat
If you ever think its too extreme, think about the victims. If you cant realise you believe the life of a serial killer is more important than the tens of victims of hers, its not anybodies problem that you are a monster.
Baby security has gotten MAD serious... We had a police escort with us any time we went somewhere else in the hospital with the newborn. There was also a security band on him (my 3rd btw... 1st child it wasn't quite like this) that if the band broke or was removed... THE ENTIRE HOSPITAL WENT ON LOCK DOWN
@@221b-l3t yea it was an interesting experience for sure, but the police were to keep others away from us as we went to another section of the hospital. They even partially locked down the hospital while we were transferring from where the birth happened to the "new baby" area. Once we got to our room we were told under no circumstances was the baby to leave without staff with the baby and one of the parents. The only time they took him to another area away from us was for his first bath, but we were able to watch through a window.
Mine both had a security band that would alarm if it was removed or they were taken out of the maternity ward. So the nurses had to tell us not to even walk in front of the ward door with the baby, because it was sensitive and would detect the band. I’m all for it.
I always really enjoy David's scripts. They really emphasize Simon's...Simon-ness.
27:40 Yes, the parents were polite, but I understand that totally. When my husband and I lost our child during pregnancy, we sent the team who treated us a card to thank them. We are so lucky in the UK to have the NHS. This evil person is an anomaly. The fact that this did happen shouldn't take away from the millions of lives saved everyday. They are amazing. I agree that there should be detectives, looking at unusual deaths, in hospitals permanently. Middle and Senior Management are just a waste of valuable NHS resources.
Having lost a premature child in the hospital to "other pre-existing blood conditions" which was missed by all scans prior this story rocked me to my core. Now I'm left questioning every single action my wife and I made in the hospital wondering what actually happened. I'm not in the same country as this monster but I still can't help but wonder.
You did nothing wrong. Your wife did nothing wrong. Sometimes these things happen. The vast majority of healthcare workers are not evil like this "person".
Simon gave Dave bread crust and a bowl of soup he had to share with Danny in the basement in exchange for the script. He felt it was a good deal.
Dave got a bowl of soup!? I only got the bread crust!
I feel for ETA. No screen time any more, and therefore no wages.
This is heartbreaking. My son was born 16 weeks premature 1lb 5 oz. He was in the NICU for 6 months. This nurses were absolutely my heros. I had put all my trust into them. Thank god they were good ones.
I blame the hospital as well as Letby. The hospital needs to learn its lesson. Stupid stupid humans!! Who cares about saving face when a nurse is killing babies, this is unbelievable!!!
Thank you Simon, Dave and Chris! She's a sick human!! I'm in absolute tears, rip beautiful souls!!
I found it very interesting when a forensic psychologist stated he found it almost impossible to believe after all the years she had worked that this was the first hospital she killed in. The doctor she had the “affair/crush” on was also implicated as a reason for her killing, but again the doctor said this was unlikely.
Very very sad all those babies were killed and there is no explanation..not that it would make it in any way better. It’s just awful for the families to not have that piece of information too.
I think part of the system "overlooking" Lucy was her high level of nursing abilities, she was one of the few if not only of her level on that floor, the only one allowed to do certain things lower level nurses couldn't
It echoes the sentiment "some lives are more valuable than others"
Pretty disgusting
This makes me so sad, and I don't have children. I can't imagine how Simon must have felt reading this. I hope he took some time for self-care after this.
Wow, thank you for doing that so quickly and so well, Dave, Chris and Simon. This is a rough one, please consider yourselves hugged if you wish.
I wasnt expecting this so quickly
I know a lot of parents have commented saying how much this case is affecting them, and understandably so, but I neither have children nor want them and this case is deeply upsetting to me. I listened to the Daily Mail in depth podcast during the court case and hearing the details is just devastating. This episode was incredibly well written. Thanks guys.
I have never in my life been so thankful for an ad break. Also, can someone please investigate all of her patients? specifically the ones whose paperwork she had in her home
I fell pregnant around the time the court case started. I remember sobbing everyday I heard an update. It was unbearable, I know there will be no true comfort for the families but I hope that one day they will find some peace.
Im sure when you had to deliver your baby you had a lot of trust issues with the nurses and medical staff. I dont blame you. This lady just destroyed the trust we build with our patients... makes me so angry.
@@Alejojojo6 you have no idea. I had one stab me with a needle like it was an EpiPen. I was put in a side room and left to shake because they were too busy to help me deliver my baby. My blood pressure sky rocketed and I nearly had a heart attack. They discharged me too early after I gave birth and I was readmitted to a different hospital. They were shocked at my poor care and told me I could have died.
I have a nursing instructor that worked with peds. You can tell it’s her passion. She was torn up telling us about the one patient that she had that passed away (over 20 years of nursing) & she worked in the PICU. Personally, I want to work in a place without death. I know it would tear me up. I’m not saying nobody ever passes away in inpatient psych, but it is very rare and I am very passionate about mental health. Prayers to all of those parents. ❤
Thank you Simon for covering this so sensitively.
Words cannot express how monstrous this case is, but it is important that you and others cover it so that we can be made aware and take action if we ever see something similar so it is never repeated.
Guys, you're breaking Simon. I demand the next episode be a Christmas story about a child not getting enough gifts.
Apparently we're just not getting anything at all for awhile now; I hope the team is alright after this one 😬
It was blaze boy Simon in the intro, I dig it! Kudos to the legends Dave, Jen, and Chris for churning this out lightening fast. Stay awesome yall
Excellent content as always! Best thing that's happened all week was to open RUclips and see your new upload from one minute ago :-)
I sat in a hospital holding my niece's little girl who was born 2 months premature. she was so little, so fragile and so vulnerable. I thought about her as I listened to this story and it made my heart sore. I understand Simon's emotions on this one because all of us feel the loss of a baby. We feel for the parents and the entire family, the expectation of what might have been. I doubt any of us will ever understand what made this nurse into a killer and perhaps that speaks to the humanity in us and the inhumanity in her.
I read Black Box Thinking and it was really great. A good book that just deals with medical errors is When We Do Harm by Danielle Ofri. It’s not an easy read, but I appreciated after reading it some of the challenges that doctors and medical staff face and how small errors and biases can stack up and cost lives. It was both enlightening and heartbreaking.
Thank you for such a fast turn around ❤
This happened in the same hospital that I was born in and that my daughter was later born in. Pretty damned close. Its hit this entire community hard. Thanks for covering this Simon
In my country too (I’m in Europe as well) after giving birth new mothers remain in the hospital for the 24-48h following the birth, exactly so that doctors can monitor and check if there are no post-partum complications for either the mum and/or the baby.
Yessssss❤❤❤❤. Ive been down the rabbit hole this last week catching up on this one. Absolutely crazy how she got away with this for any length of time.
This might be the first true crime podcast where I’ve actually been brought to tears. The mother of those twins 😢I can’t. I hope that evil woman gets what she deserves.
When is the next video is going to be release?? It's been more than a week!!
Had to come back and rewatch after the update so i can be properly invested in it. Thanks for keeping us up to date factboi
I just mentioned to my wife that Simon will have an episode on this. I wasn't expecting it so quickly
Was wondering how long this one was going to take to make it to CC. Completely surprised today is the day. Whatever she gets is too good for her.
Well done Chris and Dave.
HG Tudor has done an in depth series on Letby. For anyone wanting a better understanding of Letby’s Monstrousness it is very insightful.
Iv never felt the need to say before Simon..
HEART HUGS ✨🙏🏼✨
This one is rough for everyone with a soul.