Ironically this was what made mainland Italy such a god-awful awful place to fight in. The terrain often favored the defensive, meaning the Allies had a much harder time advancing against German and Italian troops defending hills and ridges. (This also makes me pray we one day get "Combat Mission: Korea" since this seems very similar to combat in the later stages of the Korean War.
Had a bit of a chuckle about your pronunciation of "Schießbecher". With your pronunciation it means "cup of shit" :-D The ieß in "schieß" is pronounced similar to "lease"
Great video of the battle, summed up the initial challenges really well. Thanks to Hapless for the battle and a great video. Everyone who is watching the channels, stay tuned for the second mirror game ;)
Double Vs Hapless = CM cubed! 2 men enter, 1 man leave! Insert favourite quote for when the top heavyweight contenders meet for a rumble in the jungle or a slog in the snow. Worth the entry at triple the price. Slightly excited about this one...
Very interesting battle between two youtubers that I have followed for quite some time. I really enjoyed you analysis especially on the makeup and use of your infantry . Picking the PAK guns was well done which gave an excellent result. The fact that the driver appeared to be the only survivor of the one Stuart that was destroyed doesn't surprise me. A small town in my State (in the USA) has an M5 in the park. I was privileged to be let inside of it during a Fourth of July celebration many many years ago. The turret is amazingly small and I can't imagine a penetration missing anyone in the turret. I am far to old and much to large now to safely get inside of it again, but the memory has remained with me. Many museums have tried to get the Stuart, but the town has so far held on to it. Fortunately the town has kept it in excellent condition. WW2 tanks on display in US towns are becoming increasingly rare, with M60 Patton tanks taking their place. Again, very well done.
Interesting battle on tough terrain. Think Germans needed some kind of light armor to balance. One light tank or even some armored cars with 20mm or 37mm to help w/ the Stuarts in one capacity or another. His Stuarts made all the difference w/ little AT inf available for Germans. Enjoyed your thoughts in the beginning of how you wanted to approach it, but came to a different plan if it were me before the fight started. I think I would have concentrated most of the force on the right which would prevent anything on your left being able to engage for most of the fight. Would not have gone left at all. Once the tow hold, see if go down the right, and get behind him in anyway. Would have gone heavy as possible on mortars just as you did.
Do you know what I admire about you, your ability to review and breakdown your wins and losses and learn from them. Looking for other possibilities and options you had available to better utilise them in the future. You'd make a fine officer.
I have to say, it's quite entertaining to hear you talk about how the Marders are essentially the same as cheaper anti-tank guns and then struggle terribly with the Stuarts because you can't reposition your ATGs. On the other hand I know that in these situations it's almost always the stationary tank that wins, so you'd probably just have lost more assets had you had Marders. Do the Fallschies in FI get recoilless rifles? They might have been quite handy as a slightly more mobile AT capability that is also better for direct fire support.
Hah! I guess I walked into that one. Yes, the Fallschirmjaeger get LG40 Recoilless Rifles. The game treats them as AT guns, so they can't move through rocky ground (of which there was an awful lot) and I (mistakenly) thought I could only bring them as part of the Btn Weapons Company, with a couple of layers of overheads in HQ units that add to the cost.
I think you could brought some AT rifles against the Stuart (if there are any in FI or in combat mission in general, because the Germans did use some AT rifles at this time). It would not pen the front of it but it will pen the sides.
I don't think there are any AT rifles in CMFI, though I could be wrong. If I could have brought some I would have done, even if only for general plink value.
Your one cowering pixeltruppen at the end highlights my problem with that game mechanic. One shattered survivor can’t really “contest” that ground. If one side has an overwhelming advantage in combat power inside the objective, they should control at least partially control it. If all the other side has only a small force in the objective area, and they’re all panicked or pinned, that objective isn’t really contested. I just think each side should earn partial points based on the relative amount of combat power _in good order_ inside the objective area.
Hey @Usually Hapless I am looking to get into the Combat Mission 2 series. Quick question, is there any technological differences between each title/theme? I mean that in the sense of gameplay features and not the amount of content. Like is Shock Force 2 better gameplay wise than Black Sea. Are they all the same performance and feature wise but just are different themes and time periods?
It's the same game engine for all the games, so essentially they are just different themes, theatres and time periods. Some games are more performance intensive because of the terrain focus (ie. open desert in Shock Force obviously runs better than giant forests in Final Blitzkrieg) and some time periods feature different tech-relevant options (ie. no ATGMs or thermal imagers in WW2), but they are all broadly comparable. My advice would be to go for the theater that interests you the most and check it out first with one of the demos.
Updating the graphics or engine anymore seems unlikely, or at least a very low priority. There's definitely a Red Thunder module on the way taking the Eastern Front to Berlin, then probably a Black Sea module (maybe VDV and USMC) and a Commonwealth Module for Final Blitzkrieg.
It's not a bad idea- but the chances of Double leaving the Stuart where it was if it was obviously about to be close assualted seem slim, plus it was his supporting infantry that did most of the work and I wouldn't have been able to smoke them all.
@@usuallyhapless9481 Agreed, but if its forced to move you've achieved the desired effect - negating its firepower or "functionally dislocating" him (if you are into "buzzword bingo"). But 20:20 hindsight is a wonderful thing. :)
If you know what map you're playing on you, you can open it up in another quick battle and surrender- this will give all the points to the AI and you can see how they're distributed.
Mechanically, they're all the same so it's just a question of what theatre or era you like best. They all have demos on Battlefront's site, so you can try before you buy.
Amazing to see both sides. Bad sadly a standard meeting engagement with only to possible outcomes. 1. One side is getting totaly steamrolled from the beginning. or 2. total stalemate
maybe, they were first issued to the eastern front. in september 1943. i am not sure when they arrived in italy... what they should have is the 8.8cm RW43 Puppchen, which fires similar rockets from a closed breech, the range to 500m. which were extensively used by falschirmjager in tunisia, sicily and italy from september 1942. its mounted on the same mount as the 2.8cm sPzB 41 heavy anti-tank rifle (which the falschirmjager also used extensively in this period)
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
You know, watching this has me thinking that a Combat Mission Korea wouldn't be a bad idea.
Back to the days of Theatre of War 3: Korea
Ironically this was what made mainland Italy such a god-awful awful place to fight in. The terrain often favored the defensive, meaning the Allies had a much harder time advancing against German and Italian troops defending hills and ridges.
(This also makes me pray we one day get "Combat Mission: Korea" since this seems very similar to combat in the later stages of the Korean War.
Not quite the soft underbelly of Europe...
Had a bit of a chuckle about your pronunciation of "Schießbecher". With your pronunciation it means "cup of shit" :-D The ieß in "schieß" is pronounced similar to "lease"
Great video of the battle, summed up the initial challenges really well. Thanks to Hapless for the battle and a great video. Everyone who is watching the channels, stay tuned for the second mirror game ;)
If there's 2 videos of 2 mirror matches, does that mean it's quadruple vision?
@@d.c.6065 Depends how much whisky you've drunk ;)
When I got a similarly titled notification from you and double, I knew what was going on and that it was gonna be a good fight
The Camera work in all of your videos is incredibly underrated, it brings so much more than just information, it’s enjoyable as hell to watch
Double vs Hapless. It is like Ken Watanabe said in Godzilla: "Let them fight"😁
Double Vs Hapless = CM cubed!
2 men enter, 1 man leave!
Insert favourite quote for when the top heavyweight contenders meet for a rumble in the jungle or a slog in the snow.
Worth the entry at triple the price.
Slightly excited about this one...
This!
I guess I know what I'm watching as soon as I get out of work tonight. Forman vs Ali. King Kong vs Godzilla. Double vs Hapless.
What a classically Italian Campaign battle. Bloody, grinding, attritional, all just to draw
Very interesting battle between two youtubers that I have followed for quite some time. I really enjoyed you analysis especially on the makeup and use of your infantry . Picking the PAK guns was well done which gave an excellent result. The fact that the driver appeared to be the only survivor of the one Stuart that was destroyed doesn't surprise me. A small town in my State (in the USA) has an M5 in the park. I was privileged to be let inside of it during a Fourth of July celebration many many years ago. The turret is amazingly small and I can't imagine a penetration missing anyone in the turret. I am far to old and much to large now to safely get inside of it again, but the memory has remained with me. Many museums have tried to get the Stuart, but the town has so far held on to it. Fortunately the town has kept it in excellent condition. WW2 tanks on display in US towns are becoming increasingly rare, with M60 Patton tanks taking their place. Again, very well done.
Dead Squad Leader: Clutch or Kick
Good to see you going up against Double "The David Attenborough of Combat Mission" Vision! An early Christmas gift! Cheers!
These PvP from both sides are very cool. Thanks for doing these.
Interesting battle on tough terrain. Think Germans needed some kind of light armor to balance. One light tank or even some armored cars with 20mm or 37mm to help w/ the Stuarts in one capacity or another. His Stuarts made all the difference w/ little AT inf available for Germans. Enjoyed your thoughts in the beginning of how you wanted to approach it, but came to a different plan if it were me before the fight started. I think I would have concentrated most of the force on the right which would prevent anything on your left being able to engage for most of the fight. Would not have gone left at all. Once the tow hold, see if go down the right, and get behind him in anyway. Would have gone heavy as possible on mortars just as you did.
Loved it, Hapless. Really enjoyed watching it, your analysis and presentation. Like an early Xmas present. Thank you!
The greatest CM Match of all time.
As good to watch like a movie. Yet another great and insightful video.
Oh good lord this is so exiting, I could not believe my eyes when I saw both vids in my sub feed!!!
Another great vid. Amazing how thrilling it is watching pixels fight 😂
Do you know what I admire about you, your ability to review and breakdown your wins and losses and learn from them. Looking for other possibilities and options you had available to better utilise them in the future. You'd make a fine officer.
I like to smoke Stuarts while moving closer with antitank weapons.
The worry is always that it will just reverse away though.
I have to say, it's quite entertaining to hear you talk about how the Marders are essentially the same as cheaper anti-tank guns and then struggle terribly with the Stuarts because you can't reposition your ATGs. On the other hand I know that in these situations it's almost always the stationary tank that wins, so you'd probably just have lost more assets had you had Marders.
Do the Fallschies in FI get recoilless rifles? They might have been quite handy as a slightly more mobile AT capability that is also better for direct fire support.
Hah! I guess I walked into that one. Yes, the Fallschirmjaeger get LG40 Recoilless Rifles. The game treats them as AT guns, so they can't move through rocky ground (of which there was an awful lot) and I (mistakenly) thought I could only bring them as part of the Btn Weapons Company, with a couple of layers of overheads in HQ units that add to the cost.
Jeez what a bloodbath this was
I think you could brought some AT rifles against the Stuart (if there are any in FI or in combat mission in general, because the Germans did use some AT rifles at this time). It would not pen the front of it but it will pen the sides.
I can confirm they are in Afrikakorps and Barbarossa to Berlin, dunno about the more recent ones.
I don't think there are any AT rifles in CMFI, though I could be wrong. If I could have brought some I would have done, even if only for general plink value.
Coordinating the panzerfausts with the smoke might have worked better.
Your one cowering pixeltruppen at the end highlights my problem with that game mechanic. One shattered survivor can’t really “contest” that ground. If one side has an overwhelming advantage in combat power inside the objective, they should control at least partially control it. If all the other side has only a small force in the objective area, and they’re all panicked or pinned, that objective isn’t really contested. I just think each side should earn partial points based on the relative amount of combat power _in good order_ inside the objective area.
Hey @Usually Hapless I am looking to get into the Combat Mission 2 series. Quick question, is there any technological differences between each title/theme? I mean that in the sense of gameplay features and not the amount of content. Like is Shock Force 2 better gameplay wise than Black Sea. Are they all the same performance and feature wise but just are different themes and time periods?
It's the same game engine for all the games, so essentially they are just different themes, theatres and time periods. Some games are more performance intensive because of the terrain focus (ie. open desert in Shock Force obviously runs better than giant forests in Final Blitzkrieg) and some time periods feature different tech-relevant options (ie. no ATGMs or thermal imagers in WW2), but they are all broadly comparable. My advice would be to go for the theater that interests you the most and check it out first with one of the demos.
@@usuallyhapless9481 Thanks for the reply really helped!
Really think they should remake CMBB and CMAK. But my dream combat mission game is Combat Mission: Pacific war. But I doubt it will happen
Pacific is a tough theatre to model at the tactical level
A tough fight. Real shame the mortar teams were just a few meters too far forward.
Are there any plans for them to come out with more dlc's? Any plans on using updated graphics engine?
Updating the graphics or engine anymore seems unlikely, or at least a very low priority. There's definitely a Red Thunder module on the way taking the Eastern Front to Berlin, then probably a Black Sea module (maybe VDV and USMC) and a Commonwealth Module for Final Blitzkrieg.
We're PaK 36s available? If so, why didn't you consider them?
Unsure why you didn't blind the Stuart with smoke and then close the range with the Panzerfaust teams?
It's not a bad idea- but the chances of Double leaving the Stuart where it was if it was obviously about to be close assualted seem slim, plus it was his supporting infantry that did most of the work and I wouldn't have been able to smoke them all.
@@usuallyhapless9481 Agreed, but if its forced to move you've achieved the desired effect - negating its firepower or "functionally dislocating" him (if you are into "buzzword bingo"). But 20:20 hindsight is a wonderful thing. :)
How do you know how many points the objectives are worth?
If you know what map you're playing on you, you can open it up in another quick battle and surrender- this will give all the points to the AI and you can see how they're distributed.
A lot of fun to watch. Thanks to both of you.
Which of the combat force game would you suggest I start with? Shock Force 2, Black Sea or another one? Thanks.
Mechanically, they're all the same so it's just a question of what theatre or era you like best. They all have demos on Battlefront's site, so you can try before you buy.
@@usuallyhapless9481 thanks, i'll take a look.
I recently got CMFI and CMBN those fucken ridge battles in italy are the hardest thing ever
🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨
Amazing to see both sides.
Bad sadly a standard meeting engagement with only to possible outcomes.
1. One side is getting totaly steamrolled from the beginning.
or
2. total stalemate
Why are you reffering to infantry as "pixel"?
Because these infantry are made of pixels
@@usuallyhapless9481 now it makes sense
Uggghhh. Too early in the war for Panzerschreks?
maybe, they were first issued to the eastern front. in september 1943. i am not sure when they arrived in italy...
what they should have is the 8.8cm RW43 Puppchen, which fires similar rockets from a closed breech, the range to 500m. which were extensively used by falschirmjager in tunisia, sicily and italy from september 1942. its mounted on the same mount as the 2.8cm sPzB 41 heavy anti-tank rifle (which the falschirmjager also used extensively in this period)
Scheissbecher hahah
40mm Shitbucket 😂
"Fictional modern conflicts -....- and ukraine(Black sea)" yeah not so fictional anymore