I normally would never question your videos but in this case I know more about the history of this intersection so I’ll contribute. The intersection did change in the early 90s and before then did not have three roundabouts. The northern most roundabout was added in the early 90s, I think maybe 1992. It first appears in the 1993 edition of the Melways. Prior to that, Manchester and the northern section of Hull Rd both entered what is now the middle roundabout separately at very sharp angles to each other. I remember it being very dangerous saw some near misses from the window of a bus for many years.
Yes, I'd thought that from the design of the three roundabouts they were very unlikely to date from as early as c.1970, infact roundabouts of any type were quite rare then, I'd like to see a picture of what it looked like pre 1992.
The design of the centre island of the Manchester/Hull roundabout differs from the other two, particularly the kerb & channel being of the semi-mountable style, rather than the barrier kerb style used through the rest of the roundabouts. I’d love to see what it used to look like pre-1990s 3rd roundabout addition!
You're absolutely right - thanks very much for the correction! I'll pin your comment and add this information into the description to clarify - unfortunately I can't edit the video after it's uploaded...
Got my licence at the VicRoads on the northeast corner, had to go through here to pass, and went through every single lesson with my driving instructor. Thankfully been going through with the folks my entire life so it seems ordinary to me. If you forget that it's unusual, you'll have no issues. Had a couple people hear where I'm from and say, "Hey, isn't that near Mooroolbark? They have this crazy roundabout thing, it was so scary."
I love how you go to the effort of showing as much history as possible. My suggestion would be the Reservoir station intersection, which I know you're aware of. High St, Spring St, Broadway, Cheddar Rd and Edwardes St. What amazes me was when they rebuilt the station they didn't take the opportunity to simplify the intersection, instead it's a slightly improved 4 intersections.
As a pedestrian/cyclist they made that intersection worse. At least when there was the train crossing you got a decent light signal to cross, now you're waiting ages!
@@m00nh34d True, but no one's died there yet. That intersection claimed at least one fatality every year for decades. And there was always broken glass on the road from wing mirrors.
I live on the east side of the station. If in Reservoir on the west side I drive south to Regent and back up again. As a design engineer/operations researcher, with the large space available, I feel the end result was substandard. Should have got someone from Switzerland to redesign it. I reckon one of the reasons the police left was lack of easy access. I asked a close relative who worked for the contractor at the time why the road junction wasn't fixed. I was abruptly told that the scope of the project was solely improvement of rail operations. Road was excluded. One of my other relo's worked for gov't back in the day decades ago. They predicted that massive works would be required one day to fix rail access to the CBD if the extension of the tennis centre, closure of Princes Bridge, Jolimont rework went ahead, As gov't is in power for 3 years they couldn't care less. I'll ask him at Xmas if an interest bill of $25 million a day was ever envisaged let alone the 100+ billion in capital that has to be repaid.
@@HouseholdDog agreed, as the cars get safer and have more features, people get worse at driving. It’s really not hard, just about everyone my age that lives in the area did there VicRoads licence test through here.
That goes for any stupid intersection including the one near dfo in the city, the parkville roundabout, the Springvale roundabout and the monstrosity that is Mt Alexander road. Once you're familiar with them, they're fine. The problem is though, it that a good portion of people travelling through any of these places every day are not familiar with them. The stress of trying to figure out how to navigate them and making decisions in a split second all while trying to be in the correct lane and follow the road rules makes for a dangerous drive. And even for those familiar with them still have people that aren't, driving right next to them. These intersections are inherently dangerous, as shown in the crash statistics.
I have been travelling through here for decades and I can see how people could get confused but as you said, if you pay attention it's not bad. The intersection did get an update a few years ago but it was relatively minor. Also there was a fire in the Shire of Lillydale offices in the 1960's and many records were lost, that may be why info was hard to find.
Great video, thanks very much Philip. The 5 ways isn't a problem as long as drivers anticipate their lane position correctly. Same issue with any multi lane roundabouts really.
As a former Mooroolbark resident, there's nothing really complicating about navigating the Five Ways other than the uncertainty of how _other_ drivers might react, but that applies to any interaction on the roadways. And also as a former motorcyclist, Five Ways was fun trying to figure out my first time while on my Ls back in 2002. The thing about motorcycle Learner permits is that you don't have an instructor or fully licensed person with you. In fact, it's harder to ride with a passenger. And because I got my motorbike license and a motorbike before I ever got a car or car license, I never had any experience with an instructor, other than the 2 hour course we had to do to get a motorbike learner permit. Half of it was spent listening to an old guy yap and lecture the class anyway. In other words, the Five Ways was one of the first bits of road I ever traversed after I bought my first motorbike as a teenager, with ZERO hours logged in any vehicle. Hey... thems the rules... I didn't break any laws. If you don't wanna spend all that money and hours "logging hours" for your car license, then just get a motorbike license. But then again... there's only a certain type of person who gets a motorbike license... Technically you could also get a pilots license before driving a car too. I started getting my hours up in the air at 15 but that stopped when my parents divorced and he stopped paying for my flight lessons. Otherwise I would've had my pilots license before ever driving a car. So instead I got my motorbike license. It was cheaper. Cars are for lame-o's Anyway, just treat Five Ways like any other roundabout; want to stick left? Then stay in left lane and do as you do in any other roundabout. Want to turn right? Then stay in the right lane and indicate accordingly. It's really not that complex. Navigating Five Ways you're not going to be making complex manoeuvres. Either you want to go straight ahead, turn left or turn right. It's not like you're going to be switching lanes and changing directions mid-way through the roundabouts. Before you've even approached it, you should've already entered the lane you wish to follow and you just keep with it as you would in any roundabout. It's an either/or. You don't "change your mind" mid-Five Ways. You commit. Either left, right OR straight. Not a combination.
Usually it's not an issue for those of us who are familiar with it, but I can see how it would be confusing to newbies. I did once see a little old lady try and turn right instead of left around the roundabout on a Saturday morning- it caused absolute chaos and she was very overwhelmed, poor thing.
It’s actually dead easy. You need to approach it as three separate roundabouts. Just approach the first like you would any other roundabout. Rinse and repeat for the next couple
Both of my children learnt to drive there! Vic Roads was right there so the roundabout was generally required to be navigated during some part of the driving test. It’s not too bad as long as you are patient and follow the signs. But it is confusing to those who are new!! Great video.
Brilliant, it even pre-dates the famous five-road + six roundabout construction in England called the “Magic Roundabout”. My experience is that it’s mostly Americans who are troubled by any form of roundabout.
It's pretty easy when you're expecting it. A bit of a surprise the first time you come across it though. I don't know why it's not a single larger roundabout.
Yes. The junction of Keilor Rd / Lincoln St / Bulla Rd / Mt Alexander Rd... with the tram going through the middle is a favourite for tow trucks, and I often wonder... "why?!!"
Thanks great suggestion! I might look at its history - I'll add it to the list. In terms of the LXRP the intersection's layout hardly changed at all though.
@@TeamEXAngus I feel like they could have done more to make that intersection a bit better than it was, it's hardly changed and still backs up for miles
A particularly clever part of the original design was that it avoided cars crossing each other (eg a right lane trying to turn left or vice versa). The one place this could have happened reduced from 2 lanes to a single lane to force cars to merge before diverging. Unfortunately, that portion has now be widened to 2 lanes, which reduced the effectiveness of traffic separation. But overall, it works surprisingly well.
The former merge as you exit onto Hull Rd toward Croydon used to be the only dangerous part of the entire thing. I’m so glad it was widened to two lanes and the merge is now outside the roundabout!
Funny you make that joke, I literally did my learner's test right there! There used to be a VicRoads office on Manchester just north of roundabouts, shy of the Maccas. Driving the intersection really isn't that bad, but you're dead right about it being a huge nuisance for pedestrians. Getting across Cambridge Road in particular is a problem because lots of cars come down the hill at speed unless it's backed up.
I feel that if I lived there and had to cross regularly, I'd be like that bloke I encountered this afternoon walking down the middle of Sydney Road. I have no tolerance for bullshit car-centric design and think I'd be writing a letter or two to more than just the local paper.
Yea you did a video on the 5 ways set of roundabouts I commented on. Like I said the first few times I drove through it, I found it hard but now I don't mind it and find it fun. I am surprised they were built that long ago.
If you wanted suggestions for more "bad intersections" of Melbourne, I'd suggest the following four: - Bulla Rd/Mount Alexander Rd/Lincoln Rd/Keilor Rd in Essendon. The tram going through the middle of the roundabout, and there being another roundabout close by throws a lot of people off. - the Haymarket Roundabout in Parkville. Famously bad! - Lorimer St/Westgate Freeway/Montague St/South Wharf DFO, Southbank. I feel this one actually contributes to the confusion at Montague St Bridge. - High St/Edwardes St/Spring St/Cheddar Rd/Macartney St/Broadway, Reservoir. It was really bad before the LXRP works.
Other suggestion, there's a roundabout at Dendy St in Brighton with a train line going through it. Also I think the Montague St Bridge problem is people not knowing how tall they are and not paying attention
Rode my bike through 5 ways everyday in the 1970s on my way to Mooroolbark Tech. You would gather as much speed as possible down Hull Rd and try to carry it up Cambridge Rd to avoid pushing up the hill.
@@sammy_dogI liked that school, classes were not too big and plenty of trade subject time. Would have preferred if the P.E. teacher Mr Prichard wasn’t such a hard arse. But other than that I have fond memories of my 2 years there.
i live just next to Lilydale and the intersection is easy once you know it. when on my learners my driving instructor took me on it as soon as i hit a few hours. when VicRoads used to be in Mooroolbark it was commonplace to go through the intersection
Maybe I'm feeling the after effects of the neighborhood I used to live in, but I see two roundabouts and I say: Good luck pedestrian! Strong Towns Chuck had a commentary about a roundabout being the simplest and cheapest solution... he may have been right in that location, but if the traffic is saturated... good luck!
I really don't understand how anybody could be confused at these roundabouts. They're very simple and logical, you just need to take notice of the lane you're in, but that applies to all multi-lane roundabouts. I would've though the Springvale junction is much more confusing.
Confusing ? Not at all. One of the few places left one can have an adventure when driving by car. I have heard, a tourism company is planning to open an office for rental cars nearby, so visitors can take part in the thrill.
I live in Mooroolbark and go through all the time, super easy once you are used to it. However my biggest issue with it is the signs telling you which lane you need to get in are way to close to the roundabout. E.g. on Cambridge road, the sign is like 30m from the intersection, yet you need to pick which lane you want to be in well before that, with the lane practically seperating into 2 most days just before Highland Cres. If they just put signs further back, to give people time to read the sign, and have time to be prepared for which lane they need to go in. Way to many people trying to change lanes after they can see the sign, which is not their fault, its signed badly, but very easy to have accidents with 1 lane going at full speed and the other stopped
Melbourne in general sucks for letting you know which lane you need to be in. There's a lot of intersections across Melbourne where you just have to know ahead of time from past experience because it's poorly signed, signed too late, or the only indication is markings on the road itself that you can't see if you're in traffic until it's too late. I've lived here most of my life, but I have more issues with finding myself in the wrong lane than other cities that I only visited for a week, lol.
Simple rule to follow: If you need to turn right to exit any of the roundabouts at any time, start in the right lane. If you need to go left, start in the left lane, then just take them one at a time as normal. If it's not peak hour then it doesn't matter, just lane change between them if you need to. But if it is peak hour, following that rule will remove the need to push in to another lane.
Went to high school on Cambridge Road and after getting my licence I drove though this intersection weekly. It never seemed to be an issue. My mate once boasted of driving his 1966 Ford Mustang around the roundabout at 80 kph. 😂
Drive throuh this intersection almost everyday and didn't really think much of it. If you have a minor plan in your head with where you want to go and exercise lane discipline. It's easy.
I grew up in the Western Suburbs I made friends with my mates who lived in Lilydale, and I was on my Ps at the time ( just red back then) so my mate warned me "now, the 5 ways are ahead it's really tricky" I said okay and kept telling them about a story I had I went through the intersection and said the punch line to the story. They both looked at me in shock, they then told me I negotiated the 5 ways and didn't miss a beat. Truth be told IT'S NOT THAT HARD! now & over many years later I lived in Chirny, Wandin & now Furrntree Gully and I know why it's so hard for all the locals in the eastern suburbs. THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO DRIVE! 1. They all think Right lanes are for right, No matter what. Even if you're about to turn left.perfect example is FTG Rd to Dorset. 2. They don't read traffic any further forward than their own bumper. They don't use Round about Signs as a give way sign but a stop sign. 3. They don't head check on lane changes, and no-one seems to know how wide their own vehicle is. They never look at the outside edge of their mirror and think THAT'S THE WIDEST POINT.
I have a RUclips video driving around Five Ways if anyone’s interested. As far as I can remember it’s been like this since the 70s when I went to Mooroolbark Tech nearby. Some of the shops have changed but the road is the same.
Wow, that's very different to my experience of it. Huge banking up at Lincoln Road and lots of people switching between lanes suddenly when they realise they're in the wrong one. Not to mention the lack of pedestrian safety!
If you get a chance , the Frankston-Flinders , Eramosa and Grant road “roundabout” in Somerville is also a doozie. I remember when it was installed , people were driving around it backwards and cutting the corners etc to get where they wanted to go , it was complete chaos. Compounded by this weird answer to control traffic on this strange meeting of roads, is the fact the Stony Point rail line runs parallel with Frank/Flind road , and the crossing for it is essentially part of this roundy, so you can imagine the compete and utter system failure when the BHP trails regularly stop over and block the train crossing , the roundabout ceases to flow any traffic.
Had to go through here recently, it wasn't difficult given the advance signage if you're competent & confident behind the wheel. Sadly, many drivers aren't.
I was out there a few weeks ago!! I was using my GPS as I haven't been out that way for donkeys years.. The GPS nearly had a coniption!!! I figured out by looking!! ehheh
@@ianmynard431 exactly. The GPS says take the exit to Hull Road. You see the sign for Hull Road and head that way, then GPS says exit at somewhere else. It seems that Hull Road goes through, and it tells you to go to the bit in the middle called Hull Road, but does not mean the Hull Road ext. I cant even describe it. It is a mess, confusing for drivers when they first come across it. I only came across it because avoiding the congestion and mess at the Montrose Roundabout works.
I grew up in yarra junction, went to school in lilydale, and one of my first jobs was at subway in Croydon. Never ever had a problem with this. It's not that hard. People who struggle with things like this are the people who suck at driving
The town had 1 L since 1872, but the shire had 2 until it was folded into the Shire of Yarra Ranges in 1994. This is also why Lillydale Lake is named with 2 Ls.
A valid point you make is that drivers are not required to give way to pedestrians at roundabouts. A point that Mornington Shire Council should take note of as in recent years have put pedestrian crossings at the edge of roundabout intersections which require vehicles to block the roundabout upon exiting, waiting for pedestrians to cross and potentially dangerous for pedestrians as the A-pillar (door pillar) of the car can block view of pedestrian given nature of the turn in a roundabout on the smaller intersections.
They've just installed these ridiculous crossings on all 4 sides of a roundabout near me and it is patently ridiculous and the most unsafe thing I can think of to do to a roundabout.
Thanks very much! Camberwell Junction is a good idea - I'll add that to the list :) As for Montague Street Bridge I feel like that's been done to death. I'd rather do less-covered topics first
I remember when Camberwell junction didn't have any traffic lights. Only three major roads all crossing at the intersection. What could possibly go wrong? (Actually I think more went wrong when there was little traffic around because at other times everyone just took it slowly.
in times gone bt two large roundabouts were constructed there, I always found it easy, then in the mid 80's they added a third roundabout, it is quite ab ezy intersection to use, My problem is when knuckleheads only use one flash of there indicator or not at all.. By the way the first vehicle to enter the roundabout has right of way. Give way to the right does not apply, but is more of a curtosy rule more than anything. I use it everyday.
I actually did my learners out of the VicRoads centre right on Hull Rd before it closed. I think because I’d been on lessons in the area, I had no problems with the roundabouts. Though it probably helped that I had driven the exact route the test was on before the test. Fifty percent luck & fifty percent knowledge of who was doing the tests from the driving instructor.
IDEA. Maroondah HWY dropping down into Lilydale was a bun fight between shires over who was responsible for the road and damage done by motorist daytriping and chewing up the swampy ground I dont know about recent times, but there was a distinct difference in the road on the Ringwood side to the Lilydale side
@ShaunRuigrok OK then, read the newspapers of the time 1910 ish and get back to me . I was researching early motoring when l read it, and it explained a lot about the road when l last saw it . Early RACV members were trying to get the dispute resolved . Also Vic roads. was not a thing till much later. Another thing to look at is the rail bridge now also overpasssed by the freeway in flemington. I think it was in the Sun mid 1920s they called the rail bridge and all he pilons a trafic hazard back then and in need of fixing . I think 2010ish it was in the news and nothing had been done in 100 years
@ShaunRuigrok Don't forget they were shires then and not in an arterial plan . Knox l think was a Shire till 1969 . Shires into the 80s l remember having disputes over the end of sections of road. In the Maryborough Ballarat area, you would get 100 meters of potholed gravel road at the Shire boundaries . Each claiming the last 100 meters was not their problem
Also till the car came along the roads to what are now middle Melbourne suburbs were horse and cart tracks in the same or worse condition as state Forrest fire trials . There was nothing much past the railway stations except dirt track to the next town like Blackburn to Wantirna . Everything was built around he railway stations
Another story. The steep hill on Fern Tree Gully Rd coming from Scorsby to Jells Park was used as a Hill Climb race track up to about 1915 . Used to demonstrate early motorcar power and speed. A bit like Bathurst races in the 60s . Win on Sunday ,sell on Monday.
"just don't take your driving test there" Until recently, the Mooroolbark Vic roads testing site was on the north east corner of the five ways. The only way to exit their carpark was to turn left and enter the roundabout. Every single driving test there was forced to go through it several times. I know. It's where I did my test. 😂😂
I know it's not Melbourne but this reminds me a whole lot of the Britannia roundabout in Adelaide - it used to be one big roundabout but it was such a point of contention and constant argument that it got split into two not dissimilar to this. It's on a much busier intersection - I don't have the exact data but it'd be one of the busiest in the city - and similarly is absolutely evil to use as a pedestrian - I worked on a building right near it for a while and I'd have to cross three of the roads to get to my bus which always felt like taking my life into my hands during morning peak!
Roads and rules have only become difficult recently, Google maps doesn't explain how to drive by the rules, it just tells you where to go. So people drive with the only end game being 'Ill get to my destination because Google told me I can'.
The only part of these roundabouts that I ever found mildly annoying (aside from trying to enter it from Lincoln rd when the Croydon side of Hull road is busy as there are few gaps when you can safely enter at times), is that if you need to go to the Shell servo/Hungry Jack's (which is a sixth direction from the 5 ways :p and the roundabout is the only entrance to the site) if you are coming from the Croydon side, the middle roundabout has one lane from the croydon side to Cambridge exit which feels like it becomes the inside lane by default if you do a right turn towards the Shell, it's not hard (or wrong) to go into the outer lane instead as it forms when turning toward the Servo but people waiting to enter the roundabout do not expect you to do that and get confused - Those waiting between the Hull/Manchester roundabout and the middle one in the left lane see your right indicator and they assume you will take the inside lane when you continue around to the right and they enter in front of you cutting you off, which is them being bad at roundabouts more than the roundabout itself, but still. I feel it could be avoided easily by simple dotted line markings like they use at the big roundabout at Swansea/Hereford Rd in Lilydale where the inside lane is marked like a new lane you can enter if you are in the single lane section before it instead of them just being there, it's the same legally but it makes it more obvious to people waiting to enter that cars coming from the single lane part of the roundabout and continuing around could use either lane so don't just assume that they aren't going to occupy the same space that they want to. Or education in giving way to people who are inside a roundabout but that seems unlikely to stick.
When I started driving,over 30 years ago, I named it “The Clusterfuck”. People would appear to be quizzical until I renamed it “The Mooroolbark Clusterfuck”. Then everyone knew immediately what I was referring to.
I thought this was very good well done, are you able to do a history on the Dandenong Ranges, Montrose to Ferny Crk area. That would be cool to see the basic overview of the history. 😊
Hungry Jacks used to be a Golden Fleece servo and a garden supplies place. They pushed that over and put a car wash in there. The pay by the minute kind. All the wax and whatever from the car wash used to make the road slippery and it was terrific for young drivers in underpowered cars to get a nice slide happening in wet weather. Sometimes not on purpose….. I use this intersection daily. You just need to commit early and signal your intentions for all the others. Biggest issue with this intersection is not an exclusive problem : lack of patience, lack of courtesy and the ever-emerging sense of entitlement we are developing as Aussies in our unnecessarily huge cars that insulate us and lull us into our false sense of security. ‘I’m bigger than you therefore I am gonna barge through’ Has got much busier in the last few years and will get worse with new estate in Lilydale Quarry. We avoid it at peak hour when possible. Also fire at shire offices in late sixties took out lots of records hence some gaps there. Wish we knew you were local to us and filming this on the day. Much to talk about, you have quite the fan club. Brilliant channel btw mate. Take care.
So funny. It is only confusing, if you look at it from above. When you drive thru it, it is a simple system of roundabouts, that you go thru one at a time. It’s quite clever in its traffic flow. 😁
Correction; Cars are always “legally” required to give way to a pedestrian if the pedestrian has entered the roadway. It is NEVER legal to run over a pedestrian if you had an opportunity to avoid the collision eg; “give way” to them.
I lived off Colchester rd many many years ago and (i think) there’s an underground pedestrian walkway as it’s a very busy road. I never actually used it but i’m pretty sure it exists.
The only “underground pedestrian walkway” along Colchester Rd is the Dandenong Creek Trail, where Colchester Rd crosses the Dandenong Creek. This is approximately 5.5km south-south-east of the Mooroolbark 5 ways intersection (as the crow flies).
its just something that needs to be approached at the correct (most appropriate) speed. There are many 'meetings' of those familar with this traffic anomaly and those whon are not familar and both need to be cautious of the other.
I reckon if you were going for your P plates and had a mean VicRoads Assessor (or Driving Instructor), they would make you enter from Manchester Rd and exit onto Lincoln Rd!! 😂
Five ways isn't too difficult to navigate. There is a bit of logic to it and generally flows OK. Helps to have grown up in the area so know it very well. The new round-a-bout in Belgrave isn't logical at all. Half zebra crossing, half lights. Plus bus activated signals. Add-in people being nice to pedestrians, that have already pushed the button to stop traffic. You don't want to try and get through it when the school buses are dropping people off at the local school. I'm not 100% sure what Vicroads were smoking that day when it got approved. Add that to the people trying to cross to get to puffing billy. I've seen a few people this week alone climbing through the mangled fence to cross the road rather than walk the long way around the round-a-bout.
I lived in Mooroolbark for about 30 years with some of my family including my Mum still living there. As many people have said Five Ways is daunting at first, but not as bad if you just pay attention to the markings and be aware of your surroundings. I remember they updated the signage around five ways somewhere in the 2000s and is much more clearer now. Pre-2000 signage wasn't fantastic, but not terrible. Of all the years I've lived there, I've rarely seen any accidents
This intersection is absolutely fine for cars, but needs raised zebra crossings everywhere to help people get across it. Let's hope that happens, and not that it gets obliterated and turned into a signalised junction.
The roundabouts are getting too busy during peak times. Cars will queue for 100 m trying to get through there. The obvious answer is to raise some, but not all, of the roads, but which ones ??
Not hard if you're local and drive it all the time like me. Only issue it gets very congested at times. But if you think it's bad now, wait until Kinley estate is completed and a couple more thousand cars are on the roads, with VicRoads having done NOTHING for 3 decades or so except tinker around the edges and fix a few potholes, and they rarely do that now! Where exactly do you think all these extra cars will go? The last major works done in the entire outer east was the duplication of Swansea Rd and Manchester Rd. They were done decades ago. Since then, bugger all and with just about every family house in the area being demolished and replaced with 3-4 fugly dogboxes in the last few years, it's been getting worse and worse with no end in sight.
Huh, yes Kinley estate. Try going thru Hull Road / Mooroolbark Road, under rail bridge now. They added a lane in Hull Road, at lights, and now it’s a car race to cross intersection-where that ‘extra’ lane ‘ends’. So many tradie vehicles, & new ‘locals’. And growing traffic numbers. 🙃😢
Funny you say that I did actually end up doing my driving test through here I failed the first 2 times 🤣 I have no idea why my driving instructor insisted I took my test there when I had little experience in the area, maybe he just wanted a few more dollars in his wallet 🤣 that being said I've driven through there multiple times and have had no issues so far
No need to navigate it in your license test any more - they closed that office and moved it to Ringwood. But worth learners who live in the area knowing how to drive through it, because they'll need to do it on their own when they have a license.
I normally would never question your videos but in this case I know more about the history of this intersection so I’ll contribute.
The intersection did change in the early 90s and before then did not have three roundabouts. The northern most roundabout was added in the early 90s, I think maybe 1992. It first appears in the 1993 edition of the Melways.
Prior to that, Manchester and the northern section of Hull Rd both entered what is now the middle roundabout separately at very sharp angles to each other. I remember it being very dangerous saw some near misses from the window of a bus for many years.
yes my mum told me about the intersection prior to it being 3 roundabouts. she also said that Hull used to go straight through?
@@lachlanmillsteed6825it was no roundabouts before I was born, then two roundabouts, now three
Yes, I'd thought that from the design of the three roundabouts they were very unlikely to date from as early as c.1970, infact roundabouts of any type were quite rare then, I'd like to see a picture of what it looked like pre 1992.
The design of the centre island of the Manchester/Hull roundabout differs from the other two, particularly the kerb & channel being of the semi-mountable style, rather than the barrier kerb style used through the rest of the roundabouts. I’d love to see what it used to look like pre-1990s 3rd roundabout addition!
You're absolutely right - thanks very much for the correction! I'll pin your comment and add this information into the description to clarify - unfortunately I can't edit the video after it's uploaded...
Got my licence at the VicRoads on the northeast corner, had to go through here to pass, and went through every single lesson with my driving instructor. Thankfully been going through with the folks my entire life so it seems ordinary to me. If you forget that it's unusual, you'll have no issues. Had a couple people hear where I'm from and say, "Hey, isn't that near Mooroolbark? They have this crazy roundabout thing, it was so scary."
@@chrishowell9296 when an L plater can do it, they’re good to go. 👍
I love how you go to the effort of showing as much history as possible.
My suggestion would be the Reservoir station intersection, which I know you're aware of. High St, Spring St, Broadway, Cheddar Rd and Edwardes St.
What amazes me was when they rebuilt the station they didn't take the opportunity to simplify the intersection, instead it's a slightly improved 4 intersections.
As a pedestrian/cyclist they made that intersection worse. At least when there was the train crossing you got a decent light signal to cross, now you're waiting ages!
@@m00nh34d True, but no one's died there yet. That intersection claimed at least one fatality every year for decades. And there was always broken glass on the road from wing mirrors.
I live on the east side of the station. If in Reservoir on the west side I drive south to Regent and back up again. As a design engineer/operations researcher, with the large space available, I feel the end result was substandard. Should have got someone from Switzerland to redesign it. I reckon one of the reasons the police left was lack of easy access.
I asked a close relative who worked for the contractor at the time why the road junction wasn't fixed. I was abruptly told that the scope of the project was solely improvement of rail operations. Road was excluded.
One of my other relo's worked for gov't back in the day decades ago. They predicted that massive works would be required one day to fix rail access to the CBD if the extension of the tennis centre, closure of Princes Bridge, Jolimont rework went ahead, As gov't is in power for 3 years they couldn't care less. I'll ask him at Xmas if an interest bill of $25 million a day was ever envisaged let alone the 100+ billion in capital that has to be repaid.
Thanks very much, I'll add it to the list!
Once you get used to it, it's pretty easy.
@@HouseholdDog agreed, as the cars get safer and have more features, people get worse at driving. It’s really not hard, just about everyone my age that lives in the area did there VicRoads licence test through here.
That goes for any stupid intersection including the one near dfo in the city, the parkville roundabout, the Springvale roundabout and the monstrosity that is Mt Alexander road. Once you're familiar with them, they're fine. The problem is though, it that a good portion of people travelling through any of these places every day are not familiar with them. The stress of trying to figure out how to navigate them and making decisions in a split second all while trying to be in the correct lane and follow the road rules makes for a dangerous drive. And even for those familiar with them still have people that aren't, driving right next to them.
These intersections are inherently dangerous, as shown in the crash statistics.
If you know what lane to be in, it’s all good.
@@adammaggs8563stuff features the only electrics in my 81 Ford Escort was the headlights and sometimes the starter. & I nailed it 1st go
Did my drivers test at the vicroads on this intersection. It's really not that bad.
I listened to this as I was driving through this morning 😊
It’s great to see the history behind this. I find it easy enough to navigate when driving. It’s not much fun on a bike.
Public Works Dept brief: Save on Traffic Lights. ($45,000)
Outcome: Numerious Roundabouts. ($4,500,000)
" that will do Claude " Job done !
I have been travelling through here for decades and I can see how people could get confused but as you said, if you pay attention it's not bad. The intersection did get an update a few years ago but it was relatively minor.
Also there was a fire in the Shire of Lillydale offices in the 1960's and many records were lost, that may be why info was hard to find.
I'm a Mooroolbark Boy. 5-ways is part of my DNA.
Great video, thanks very much Philip.
The 5 ways isn't a problem as long as drivers anticipate their lane position correctly.
Same issue with any multi lane roundabouts really.
As a former Mooroolbark resident, there's nothing really complicating about navigating the Five Ways other than the uncertainty of how _other_ drivers might react, but that applies to any interaction on the roadways.
And also as a former motorcyclist, Five Ways was fun trying to figure out my first time while on my Ls back in 2002. The thing about motorcycle Learner permits is that you don't have an instructor or fully licensed person with you. In fact, it's harder to ride with a passenger. And because I got my motorbike license and a motorbike before I ever got a car or car license, I never had any experience with an instructor, other than the 2 hour course we had to do to get a motorbike learner permit. Half of it was spent listening to an old guy yap and lecture the class anyway.
In other words, the Five Ways was one of the first bits of road I ever traversed after I bought my first motorbike as a teenager, with ZERO hours logged in any vehicle. Hey... thems the rules... I didn't break any laws. If you don't wanna spend all that money and hours "logging hours" for your car license, then just get a motorbike license. But then again... there's only a certain type of person who gets a motorbike license...
Technically you could also get a pilots license before driving a car too. I started getting my hours up in the air at 15 but that stopped when my parents divorced and he stopped paying for my flight lessons. Otherwise I would've had my pilots license before ever driving a car. So instead I got my motorbike license. It was cheaper.
Cars are for lame-o's
Anyway, just treat Five Ways like any other roundabout; want to stick left? Then stay in left lane and do as you do in any other roundabout. Want to turn right? Then stay in the right lane and indicate accordingly. It's really not that complex. Navigating Five Ways you're not going to be making complex manoeuvres. Either you want to go straight ahead, turn left or turn right. It's not like you're going to be switching lanes and changing directions mid-way through the roundabouts. Before you've even approached it, you should've already entered the lane you wish to follow and you just keep with it as you would in any roundabout.
It's an either/or. You don't "change your mind" mid-Five Ways. You commit. Either left, right OR straight. Not a combination.
You can also get your skippers ticket before your drivers licence.
It’s part of a daily routine going through the ‘ol 5 way. Decades doing so and only ever seen 2 minor accidents.
Usually it's not an issue for those of us who are familiar with it, but I can see how it would be confusing to newbies. I did once see a little old lady try and turn right instead of left around the roundabout on a Saturday morning- it caused absolute chaos and she was very overwhelmed, poor thing.
It’s actually dead easy. You need to approach it as three separate roundabouts. Just approach the first like you would any other roundabout. Rinse and repeat for the next couple
Both of my children learnt to drive there! Vic Roads was right there so the roundabout was generally required to be navigated during some part of the driving test. It’s not too bad as long as you are patient and follow the signs. But it is confusing to those who are new!! Great video.
I go through It everyday Its so easy
Brilliant, it even pre-dates the famous five-road + six roundabout construction in England called the “Magic Roundabout”.
My experience is that it’s mostly Americans who are troubled by any form of roundabout.
Thanks for all the great content this year. Best wishes for the Festive Season 👍
Thanks, and you too!
You’re right, if you just pay attention the intersections are easy to navigate. 👍
It's pretty easy when you're expecting it. A bit of a surprise the first time you come across it though. I don't know why it's not a single larger roundabout.
It would be cool to hear about some of the pesky Mt Alexander Road junctions, such as at Essendon Station or Keilor Road.
Yes. The junction of Keilor Rd / Lincoln St / Bulla Rd / Mt Alexander Rd... with the tram going through the middle is a favourite for tow trucks, and I often wonder... "why?!!"
5 ways is perfect! Did my driving test there!
the 5 points
same here 😊 used to be very common until VicRoads left Mooroolbark
Would love to see you cover the intersection underneath Reservoir Station, and how it changed when the LXRP came through
i lived in Reservoir
Thanks great suggestion! I might look at its history - I'll add it to the list. In terms of the LXRP the intersection's layout hardly changed at all though.
@@TeamEXAngus I feel like they could have done more to make that intersection a bit better than it was, it's hardly changed and still backs up for miles
CRB was involved in design. Country Roads Board at the time. Planning was also going on for the proposed Healesville freeway
A particularly clever part of the original design was that it avoided cars crossing each other (eg a right lane trying to turn left or vice versa). The one place this could have happened reduced from 2 lanes to a single lane to force cars to merge before diverging. Unfortunately, that portion has now be widened to 2 lanes, which reduced the effectiveness of traffic separation.
But overall, it works surprisingly well.
The former merge as you exit onto Hull Rd toward Croydon used to be the only dangerous part of the entire thing. I’m so glad it was widened to two lanes and the merge is now outside the roundabout!
Funny you make that joke, I literally did my learner's test right there! There used to be a VicRoads office on Manchester just north of roundabouts, shy of the Maccas.
Driving the intersection really isn't that bad, but you're dead right about it being a huge nuisance for pedestrians. Getting across Cambridge Road in particular is a problem because lots of cars come down the hill at speed unless it's backed up.
the 5 points like the movie ,gangs of New York
i did mine there too!
I feel that if I lived there and had to cross regularly, I'd be like that bloke I encountered this afternoon walking down the middle of Sydney Road.
I have no tolerance for bullshit car-centric design and think I'd be writing a letter or two to more than just the local paper.
Never had a problem from day 1 of driving through there, although it’s easy to see why people can get confused
Yea you did a video on the 5 ways set of roundabouts I commented on. Like I said the first few times I drove through it, I found it hard but now I don't mind it and find it fun. I am surprised they were built that long ago.
Iconic. Grew up around here and it's so routine for me. It's not often a suburb has a traffic intersection that is a section on its Wikipedia article.
If you wanted suggestions for more "bad intersections" of Melbourne, I'd suggest the following four:
- Bulla Rd/Mount Alexander Rd/Lincoln Rd/Keilor Rd in Essendon. The tram going through the middle of the roundabout, and there being another roundabout close by throws a lot of people off.
- the Haymarket Roundabout in Parkville. Famously bad!
- Lorimer St/Westgate Freeway/Montague St/South Wharf DFO, Southbank. I feel this one actually contributes to the confusion at Montague St Bridge.
- High St/Edwardes St/Spring St/Cheddar Rd/Macartney St/Broadway, Reservoir. It was really bad before the LXRP works.
Other suggestion, there's a roundabout at Dendy St in Brighton with a train line going through it.
Also I think the Montague St Bridge problem is people not knowing how tall they are and not paying attention
Rode my bike through 5 ways everyday in the 1970s on my way to Mooroolbark Tech. You would gather as much speed as possible down Hull Rd and try to carry it up Cambridge Rd to avoid pushing up the hill.
I went to the Tech too, starting in 76. Went back to see it before it was all pulled down.
@@aussie8114 omg thats about the time i started goin to the tech school
@@sammy_dogI liked that school, classes were not too big and plenty of trade subject time. Would have preferred if the P.E. teacher Mr Prichard wasn’t such a hard arse. But other than that I have fond memories of my 2 years there.
@@aussie8114 I remember Mr Prichard he was one of my favourite teachers do you remember Mr Slinger
ooooh and the art teacher with the unfortunate name of Karen hunt ooooh yeah I had a bit of a thing for her lol she really wore a bra loose top yum
i live just next to Lilydale and the intersection is easy once you know it.
when on my learners my driving instructor took me on it as soon as i hit a few hours. when VicRoads used to be in Mooroolbark it was commonplace to go through the intersection
Take it as one roundabout at a time.😊
Maybe I'm feeling the after effects of the neighborhood I used to live in, but I see two roundabouts and I say: Good luck pedestrian! Strong Towns Chuck had a commentary about a roundabout being the simplest and cheapest solution... he may have been right in that location, but if the traffic is saturated... good luck!
Yep roundabout are brilliant as a driver, but I hate them as a pedestrian.
Come to think of it I've lived in Lilydale my whole life and I cant recall a significant crash at the 5 ways
I really don't understand how anybody could be confused at these roundabouts. They're very simple and logical, you just need to take notice of the lane you're in, but that applies to all multi-lane roundabouts. I would've though the Springvale junction is much more confusing.
Confusing ? Not at all. One of the few places left one can have an adventure when driving by car. I have heard, a tourism company is planning to open an office for rental cars nearby, so visitors can take part in the thrill.
I live in Mooroolbark and go through all the time, super easy once you are used to it.
However my biggest issue with it is the signs telling you which lane you need to get in are way to close to the roundabout.
E.g. on Cambridge road, the sign is like 30m from the intersection, yet you need to pick which lane you want to be in well before that, with the lane practically seperating into 2 most days just before Highland Cres. If they just put signs further back, to give people time to read the sign, and have time to be prepared for which lane they need to go in. Way to many people trying to change lanes after they can see the sign, which is not their fault, its signed badly, but very easy to have accidents with 1 lane going at full speed and the other stopped
Melbourne in general sucks for letting you know which lane you need to be in. There's a lot of intersections across Melbourne where you just have to know ahead of time from past experience because it's poorly signed, signed too late, or the only indication is markings on the road itself that you can't see if you're in traffic until it's too late. I've lived here most of my life, but I have more issues with finding myself in the wrong lane than other cities that I only visited for a week, lol.
I use it every day, it's not too bad, it's just slow in the afternoon peak. I've rarely seen pedestrians trying to cross it, no doubt it's difficult.
Simple rule to follow: If you need to turn right to exit any of the roundabouts at any time, start in the right lane. If you need to go left, start in the left lane, then just take them one at a time as normal. If it's not peak hour then it doesn't matter, just lane change between them if you need to. But if it is peak hour, following that rule will remove the need to push in to another lane.
Used to drive through there when first got my licence and worked in Croydon. Do not remember it being an issue.
That is one intersection that you really need to be alert, and to try and get in the correct lane quickly.
Exceptional work Philip. I've driven through it, and my advice would be to plan your route carefully well in advance.
and it is technically 6 now with the new servo creating a new entry/exit
Went to high school on Cambridge Road and after getting my licence I drove though this intersection weekly. It never seemed to be an issue. My mate once boasted of driving his 1966 Ford Mustang around the roundabout at 80 kph. 😂
Drive throuh this intersection almost everyday and didn't really think much of it. If you have a minor plan in your head with where you want to go and exercise lane discipline. It's easy.
I grew up in the Western Suburbs I made friends with my mates who lived in Lilydale, and I was on my Ps at the time ( just red back then) so my mate warned me
"now, the 5 ways are ahead it's really tricky"
I said okay and kept telling them about a story I had I went through the intersection and said the punch line to the story. They both looked at me in shock, they then told me I negotiated the 5 ways and didn't miss a beat. Truth be told IT'S NOT THAT HARD! now & over many years later I lived in Chirny, Wandin & now Furrntree Gully and I know why it's so hard for all the locals in the eastern suburbs. THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO DRIVE!
1. They all think Right lanes are for right, No matter what. Even if you're about to turn left.perfect example is FTG Rd to Dorset.
2. They don't read traffic any further forward than their own bumper. They don't use Round about Signs as a give way sign but a stop sign.
3. They don't head check on lane changes, and no-one seems to know how wide their own vehicle is. They never look at the outside edge of their mirror and think THAT'S THE WIDEST POINT.
I have a RUclips video driving around Five Ways if anyone’s interested.
As far as I can remember it’s been like this since the 70s when I went to Mooroolbark Tech nearby. Some of the shops have changed but the road is the same.
It's an excellent intersection - no traffic lights - so traffic flows very easily. Nice work on the video.
Wow, that's very different to my experience of it. Huge banking up at Lincoln Road and lots of people switching between lanes suddenly when they realise they're in the wrong one. Not to mention the lack of pedestrian safety!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!
If you get a chance , the Frankston-Flinders , Eramosa and Grant road “roundabout” in Somerville is also a doozie. I remember when it was installed , people were driving around it backwards and cutting the corners etc to get where they wanted to go , it was complete chaos. Compounded by this weird answer to control traffic on this strange meeting of roads, is the fact the Stony Point rail line runs parallel with Frank/Flind road , and the crossing for it is essentially part of this roundy, so you can imagine the compete and utter system failure when the BHP trails regularly stop over and block the train crossing , the roundabout ceases to flow any traffic.
Thanks for the suggestion, I wasn't aware of that one. Looks like a serious contender for Melbourne's most confusing intersection for sure!
I did my learners test on here when vicroads was on on the corner.... No problem at all since my dad had taken me through it several times prior
That is where I did my driver's licence test 😂
Had to go through here recently, it wasn't difficult given the advance signage if you're competent & confident behind the wheel. Sadly, many drivers aren't.
I was out there a few weeks ago!! I was using my GPS as I haven't been out that way for donkeys years.. The GPS nearly had a coniption!!! I figured out by looking!! ehheh
@@ianmynard431 exactly. The GPS says take the exit to Hull Road. You see the sign for Hull Road and head that way, then GPS says exit at somewhere else. It seems that Hull Road goes through, and it tells you to go to the bit in the middle called Hull Road, but does not mean the Hull Road ext. I cant even describe it. It is a mess, confusing for drivers when they first come across it. I only came across it because avoiding the congestion and mess at the Montrose Roundabout works.
I grew up in yarra junction, went to school in lilydale, and one of my first jobs was at subway in Croydon. Never ever had a problem with this. It's not that hard. People who struggle with things like this are the people who suck at driving
what a place to put a Hungry Jacks!
To get into it, you have to drive through a service station, but to get OUT you have to make a sharp left turn after leaving HJs. Bloody awkward.
At 2:47 the newspaper article shows Lilydale as "LiLLydale". When did it lose the second 'L'?
The town had 1 L since 1872, but the shire had 2 until it was folded into the Shire of Yarra Ranges in 1994. This is also why Lillydale Lake is named with 2 Ls.
A valid point you make is that drivers are not required to give way to pedestrians at roundabouts. A point that Mornington Shire Council should take note of as in recent years have put pedestrian crossings at the edge of roundabout intersections which require vehicles to block the roundabout upon exiting, waiting for pedestrians to cross and potentially dangerous for pedestrians as the A-pillar (door pillar) of the car can block view of pedestrian given nature of the turn in a roundabout on the smaller intersections.
They've just installed these ridiculous crossings on all 4 sides of a roundabout near me and it is patently ridiculous and the most unsafe thing I can think of to do to a roundabout.
@@RiffRaffMama. Exactly. I think it is grossly irresponsible.
Sounds like we should ban cars with large A-pillars since they're demonstrably so unsafe to vulnerable road users.
I remember mention of five ways as far back as 1970 ish, when I was regularly taken to visit relatives in Lilydale.
Hey man love the videos! Have you done one on Camberwell Junction or the Montague Street Bridge?
Thanks very much! Camberwell Junction is a good idea - I'll add that to the list :) As for Montague Street Bridge I feel like that's been done to death. I'd rather do less-covered topics first
I remember when Camberwell junction didn't have any traffic lights. Only three major roads all crossing at the intersection. What could possibly go wrong? (Actually I think more went wrong when there was little traffic around because at other times everyone just took it slowly.
in times gone bt two large roundabouts were constructed there, I always found it easy, then in the mid 80's they added a third roundabout, it is quite ab ezy intersection to use, My problem is when knuckleheads only use one flash of there indicator or not at all.. By the way the first vehicle to enter the roundabout has right of way. Give way to the right does not apply, but is more of a curtosy rule more than anything. I use it everyday.
I did my drivers licence test on this roundabout.
I remember the terror of going through it as a learner driver now that I have my license I still avoid it till this day.
I actually did my learners out of the VicRoads centre right on Hull Rd before it closed. I think because I’d been on lessons in the area, I had no problems with the roundabouts. Though it probably helped that I had driven the exact route the test was on before the test. Fifty percent luck & fifty percent knowledge of who was doing the tests from the driving instructor.
IDEA. Maroondah HWY dropping down into Lilydale was a bun fight between shires over who was responsible for the road and damage done by motorist daytriping and chewing up the swampy ground I dont know about recent times, but there was a distinct difference in the road on the Ringwood side to the Lilydale side
Maroondah Hwy is an arterial road and is therefore the responsibility of VicRoads, not the local Council.
@ShaunRuigrok OK then, read the newspapers of the time 1910 ish and get back to me . I was researching early motoring when l read it, and it explained a lot about the road when l last saw it . Early RACV members were trying to get the dispute resolved . Also Vic roads. was not a thing till much later. Another thing to look at is the rail bridge now also overpasssed by the freeway in flemington. I think it was in the Sun mid 1920s they called the rail bridge and all he pilons a trafic hazard back then and in need of fixing . I think 2010ish it was in the news and nothing had been done in 100 years
@ShaunRuigrok Don't forget they were shires then and not in an arterial plan . Knox l think was a Shire till 1969 . Shires into the 80s l remember having disputes over the end of sections of road. In the Maryborough Ballarat area, you would get 100 meters of potholed gravel road at the Shire boundaries . Each claiming the last 100 meters was not their problem
Also till the car came along the roads to what are now middle Melbourne suburbs were horse and cart tracks in the same or worse condition as state Forrest fire trials . There was nothing much past the railway stations except dirt track to the next town like Blackburn to Wantirna . Everything was built around he railway stations
Another story. The steep hill on Fern Tree Gully Rd coming from Scorsby to Jells Park was used as a Hill Climb race track up to about 1915 . Used to demonstrate early motorcar power and speed. A bit like Bathurst races in the 60s . Win on Sunday ,sell on Monday.
"just don't take your driving test there"
Until recently, the Mooroolbark Vic roads testing site was on the north east corner of the five ways. The only way to exit their carpark was to turn left and enter the roundabout. Every single driving test there was forced to go through it several times.
I know. It's where I did my test. 😂😂
I know it's not Melbourne but this reminds me a whole lot of the Britannia roundabout in Adelaide - it used to be one big roundabout but it was such a point of contention and constant argument that it got split into two not dissimilar to this. It's on a much busier intersection - I don't have the exact data but it'd be one of the busiest in the city - and similarly is absolutely evil to use as a pedestrian - I worked on a building right near it for a while and I'd have to cross three of the roads to get to my bus which always felt like taking my life into my hands during morning peak!
you get used to it, you just need to be observant and careful
I use it every other day…got to make sure you are in the correct lane…
Roads and rules have only become difficult recently, Google maps doesn't explain how to drive by the rules, it just tells you where to go. So people drive with the only end game being 'Ill get to my destination because Google told me I can'.
The only part of these roundabouts that I ever found mildly annoying (aside from trying to enter it from Lincoln rd when the Croydon side of Hull road is busy as there are few gaps when you can safely enter at times), is that if you need to go to the Shell servo/Hungry Jack's (which is a sixth direction from the 5 ways :p and the roundabout is the only entrance to the site) if you are coming from the Croydon side, the middle roundabout has one lane from the croydon side to Cambridge exit which feels like it becomes the inside lane by default if you do a right turn towards the Shell, it's not hard (or wrong) to go into the outer lane instead as it forms when turning toward the Servo but people waiting to enter the roundabout do not expect you to do that and get confused - Those waiting between the Hull/Manchester roundabout and the middle one in the left lane see your right indicator and they assume you will take the inside lane when you continue around to the right and they enter in front of you cutting you off, which is them being bad at roundabouts more than the roundabout itself, but still.
I feel it could be avoided easily by simple dotted line markings like they use at the big roundabout at Swansea/Hereford Rd in Lilydale where the inside lane is marked like a new lane you can enter if you are in the single lane section before it instead of them just being there, it's the same legally but it makes it more obvious to people waiting to enter that cars coming from the single lane part of the roundabout and continuing around could use either lane so don't just assume that they aren't going to occupy the same space that they want to. Or education in giving way to people who are inside a roundabout but that seems unlikely to stick.
When I started driving,over 30 years ago, I named it “The Clusterfuck”.
People would appear to be quizzical until I renamed it “The Mooroolbark Clusterfuck”. Then everyone knew immediately what I was referring to.
The site of Hungry Jack's in the distance. What an eyesore even though I sometimes like their burgers.
I thought this was very good well done, are you able to do a history on the Dandenong Ranges, Montrose to Ferny Crk area. That would be cool to see the basic overview of the history. 😊
Thanks very much! And I'll add that suggestion to the list :)
Hungry Jacks used to be a Golden Fleece servo and a garden supplies place. They pushed that over and put a car wash in there. The pay by the minute kind. All the wax and whatever from the car wash used to make the road slippery and it was terrific for young drivers in underpowered cars to get a nice slide happening in wet weather. Sometimes not on purpose…..
I use this intersection daily. You just need to commit early and signal your intentions for all the others. Biggest issue with this intersection is not an exclusive problem : lack of patience, lack of courtesy and the ever-emerging sense of entitlement we are developing as Aussies in our unnecessarily huge cars that insulate us and lull us into our false sense of security. ‘I’m bigger than you therefore I am gonna barge through’
Has got much busier in the last few years and will get worse with new estate in Lilydale Quarry. We avoid it at peak hour when possible. Also fire at shire offices in late sixties took out lots of records hence some gaps there. Wish we knew you were local to us and filming this on the day. Much to talk about, you have quite the fan club. Brilliant channel btw mate. Take care.
Doesn't this get a mention in a TISM track? I'm racking my brain but can't remember which one.....
So funny. It is only confusing, if you look at it from above. When you drive thru it, it is a simple system of roundabouts, that you go thru one at a time. It’s quite clever in its traffic flow. 😁
And if you do get lost as to where you want to end up just keep going round in circles til you figure it out.
There is also another '5 Ways' on this side of town, Boronia rd, Mountain hwy, Wantirna rd
Not quite five. A 250 metre sided triangle with 3, 4 and 4 roads respectively, and plenty of traffic lights.
Correction; Cars are always “legally” required to give way to a pedestrian if the pedestrian has entered the roadway. It is NEVER legal to run over a pedestrian if you had an opportunity to avoid the collision eg; “give way” to them.
Volunteers to test this statement please step forward.
I lived off Colchester rd many many years ago and (i think) there’s an underground pedestrian walkway as it’s a very busy road.
I never actually used it but i’m pretty sure it exists.
The only “underground pedestrian walkway” along Colchester Rd is the Dandenong Creek Trail, where Colchester Rd crosses the Dandenong Creek.
This is approximately 5.5km south-south-east of the Mooroolbark 5 ways intersection (as the crow flies).
its just something that needs to be approached at the correct (most appropriate) speed. There are many 'meetings' of those familar with this traffic anomaly and those whon are not familar and both need to be cautious of the other.
Lots of discussion about thisp before it was finished. It's a nightmare!
Learner Driver Test? Now that's a challenge!!!
I reckon if you were going for your P plates and had a mean VicRoads Assessor (or Driving Instructor), they would make you enter from Manchester Rd and exit onto Lincoln Rd!! 😂
try having one who wanted you to go from Hull Rd (Lilydale side) to Manchester Rd - not the fast way ie the one roundabout, but going through all 3!
@@lachlanmillsteed6825 Thank God I don't have to get my P's anymore!!! 🤣
Check out the Williamstown rail crossing.
When was Hungry Jack built?
I believe it was 2018, but if any locals know please confirm!
be aware of your surroundings and dont stop on entry
Try the intersection at Springvale road and princes HWY
Already done: ruclips.net/video/3THrXcrST6E/видео.html
Montague st/west gate at night or when you can't easily see the lane markings!
Five ways isn't too difficult to navigate. There is a bit of logic to it and generally flows OK. Helps to have grown up in the area so know it very well.
The new round-a-bout in Belgrave isn't logical at all. Half zebra crossing, half lights. Plus bus activated signals. Add-in people being nice to pedestrians, that have already pushed the button to stop traffic. You don't want to try and get through it when the school buses are dropping people off at the local school. I'm not 100% sure what Vicroads were smoking that day when it got approved. Add that to the people trying to cross to get to puffing billy. I've seen a few people this week alone climbing through the mangled fence to cross the road rather than walk the long way around the round-a-bout.
I drove there 5 times and every single time I took the wrong turn😂😂
I lived in Mooroolbark for about 30 years with some of my family including my Mum still living there. As many people have said Five Ways is daunting at first, but not as bad if you just pay attention to the markings and be aware of your surroundings. I remember they updated the signage around five ways somewhere in the 2000s and is much more clearer now. Pre-2000 signage wasn't fantastic, but not terrible. Of all the years I've lived there, I've rarely seen any accidents
The signage was updated around 2017-2018 and is much better now!
This intersection is absolutely fine for cars, but needs raised zebra crossings everywhere to help people get across it. Let's hope that happens, and not that it gets obliterated and turned into a signalised junction.
The roundabouts are getting too busy during peak times. Cars will queue for 100 m trying to get through there. The obvious answer is to raise some, but not all, of the roads, but which ones ??
I lived there from 78 to 84 and the intersection wasn’t like that. Must have been built after that.
Is this as bad as the Britannia Roundabout in Adelaide?
15 ways, that's for sure..
Not hard if you're local and drive it all the time like me. Only issue it gets very congested at times. But if you think it's bad now, wait until Kinley estate is completed and a couple more thousand cars are on the roads, with VicRoads having done NOTHING for 3 decades or so except tinker around the edges and fix a few potholes, and they rarely do that now! Where exactly do you think all these extra cars will go? The last major works done in the entire outer east was the duplication of Swansea Rd and Manchester Rd. They were done decades ago. Since then, bugger all and with just about every family house in the area being demolished and replaced with 3-4 fugly dogboxes in the last few years, it's been getting worse and worse with no end in sight.
Huh, yes Kinley estate. Try going thru Hull Road / Mooroolbark Road, under rail bridge now. They added a lane in Hull Road, at lights, and now it’s a car race to cross intersection-where that ‘extra’ lane ‘ends’. So many tradie vehicles, & new ‘locals’. And growing traffic numbers. 🙃😢
Good luck getting out of Coles/HJ's during peak hour.
Funny you say that I did actually end up doing my driving test through here I failed the first 2 times 🤣 I have no idea why my driving instructor insisted I took my test there when I had little experience in the area, maybe he just wanted a few more dollars in his wallet 🤣 that being said I've driven through there multiple times and have had no issues so far
No need to navigate it in your license test any more - they closed that office and moved it to Ringwood. But worth learners who live in the area knowing how to drive through it, because they'll need to do it on their own when they have a license.
The 5 points like in the move the Gangs of New York .
I know the spot quite well.