I own a Nicasio 1 (steel fork)( for a year) and it fits in to my collection as my weekend travel 'swiss army knife' coastal island touring bike, that quite frankly pretty care-free leaving it unattended, loading it up with gear, or riding it off a 4 foot drop on a trail. It handles it. My camp gear and BIG 32 bottle adds 65lbs to my existing 220. None of my carbon bikes give me the sense that they're bomb proof like the Nicasio. If I destroy this one, I'll buy another if they make them. By the way, weighed the wheels only w/o cassette, 1646 g. With cassette, 1930. I found the weight culprit is frame, fork and crank bb combo makes total 13 lbs.
@@DMartina76yeah I have to agree. This bike obviously stands out because it's a steel frame but other than that there are plenty of options out there.
I do like the ride quality of steel frame bikes having a Marin Pine Mountain with Columbus Nemo steel tubing convertible to monstercross. The only thing I don't like is the under the bottom bracket cable routing that debris can corrupt the shifting. Columbus Nemo steel of my Marin Pine mountain is a higher end steel that rides nicely.
Has the "travel" of a steel bike ever been tested? How do fork and seatpost factor versus steel quality in frame? And outside of racing, is there a need for anything better than Tiagra?
For this bike tiagra is fine but I would want a groupset with a clutch derailleur. Even long flat farm roads will rattle the chain off if the wash board is bad enough. Esp if you're in an area with a lot of trucks hauling natural gas or heavy farm equipment is frequent.
I just wondering. Why cycling tips crew doesn't test the size 52 . I have the size 52 nicasio 2. The geometry was slap bang on for endurance long ride. Plus u got nice seat post exposed not much but still. Now i am planning to get the nicasio 1 for my retro build project.
@@angryasian74i see, it's all depends on rider body geometry as well. I opted for 52 with regard of adjusting the reach by longer stem or longer reach dropbar. I think my height is around cycling tips crew at 172 cm. I agree with your point the bike is pretty vanilla, nothing wrong with that taste of bike feel . You're right on the spot for criticize marin for their bad external cable routing and compact 50/34 chainring.I swap mine with 48/32 . Strangely enough Marin Lombard 2 has 48/32 chainset.
Aside from the chainrings on this particular bike, the first priority for upgrades is always wheels and tires. The rest of the stuff on here is perfectly passable, and any money spent on upgrades wouldn't have nearly as much of an impact.
As a bike enthusiast with very little knowledge regarding the technicality of it all, I didn‘t quite understand why a compact road crankset (50-34) is considered „overgeared“ for 32+ mm wide tires? I‘m running 38mm gravel tires on my Trek Domane AL endurance road bike and never felt the chain rings causing any problems with the tire width or vice versa. So I’m genuinely interested how I would profit from a different crank set. What kind of gearing‘s considered optimal for wider tires and why?
The ratio between the number of teeth up front on the chainring and the number of teeth on the sprocket out back -- combined with the outer circumference of the tire -- determines the mechanical advantage of your drivetrain. What we're saying here is that because the tires are relatively big on the Nicasio, that essentially makes every gear feel "bigger" than they would if you were to have the same chainrings and cassette on a road bike with smaller tires. Given the target audience and usage of this bike, we feel this bike would be better served with smaller chainrings to provide more climbing-friendly gears.
As the tyre gets wider it also gets taller, increasing the diameter, so a 35 or 40mm tyre increases the gearing compared to 25 or 28mm. 50/34 is a very common fitment on bikes used for recreational road riding. A commuting / touring / backpacking / all-road / gravel bike may also have extra weight with bags or panniers and more likely be used on steeper climbs and unsealed surfaces. These will require lower gears, which is why many all-road or gravel type bikes with 2 chainrings will have 46/30 or similar. This bike should have been built with 46/30 chainrings or similar. That's what I would prefer if I was buying it (and it ticks quite a lot of boxes for me).
I think because they were expecting it to be more gravel oriented, they expect it to have a lower gear especially if the tyres are wider (wider tyres = heavier pedalling). The 50/34-11/34 is a more road oriented combo for faster riding, than the gravel oriented ride that prioritise more on the luggage carrying or climbing/hard terrain. Well i agree to their conclussion that this bike is designed for people wants a "budget" jack of all trade.
The fork is the culprit for it feeling like a "girder"...carbon disc forks across the board are overbuilt to withstand torque stress, hence the Industry pushed forward with wider tyres. I feel this bike should be shod with 650b x 47 tyres at 30psi but not sure if the 2x crankset chain line would allow it.
Might have good cable housing but the rest of the bike is one big cost cutting exercise. The terrible (trust me, I had them on a bike myself) FSA cranks are the best example. The only reason they're on there is because they're cheaper than Tiagra. The only reason it's 50/34 is because it's cheaper than more suitable chainrings...
I feel like Betsy goes missing a bit in these discussions (very general comments, little experience with mid range groupos like Tiagra, doesn't know about geometry for framebags/fundamentals of standover for leaning etc) standing next to James and Dave who generally provide a lot of insightful/nuanced comments (e.g. Dave more or less emphasized, without saying for fear of annoying Shimano or Marin or both, that this bike would be good for bike tourers if you at minimum put a roadlink and as big of a cassette on it as possible, because out of the box it's just grossly inadequate for that use case despite it's geo).
I think Marin wanted to make a road bike but soonly realizes that their heavy stock rims won't make it. I didn't find many road bike at this price giving you solid hydraulic DB though.
Polygon (a brand that own and manufacturing Marin) : Strattos s5 disc, alloy road bike. Bend r5, alloy touring gravel bike. Path x5, all road/gravel alloy. All of them has same or even less price tag than Nicasio 2. And better groupset, 105 disc or grx800-ish series
Very refreshing to hear you all state the ride difference between high end steel and roll-cage 4130 pipe. Thank you for finally clarifying for everyone that not all steel is real !
From the point of view of mechanical properties, all these steels are quite the same. Rigidity is barely varying in any steel. For elastic limits and breaking limits (not sure of the English term) it's not varying that much also. And they are the more varying properties of steels. Which don't vary too much. So, for normal temperature which is the case of bikes, using any steel is quite the same. So, I'm quite sure that design and design process are much more determinant in frame quality than material. Nevertheless, they can't sell to most people that a good frame can be achieved with any steel. So they have to use "high end" steels.
I don't get why it has a tiagra groupset. It's 2022. Should have a grx groupset at this price point or something from Apex. Was searching for a steel bike under 2k but this is a deal breaker for me.
Thank god it's a very budget friendly JUST 1800 $'s bike that ''regular pleebs" should consider rather than a "'sensibly priced" 5000 $ bike made for bike snobs. Most of these youtubers and their bike brand paymasters are trying to convince people that 2000$ is "normal" price to pay for a freaking entry level cycle.
Thanks James and gang. Currently sitting in hospital after a hip operation and this gravel series is a real tonic.
Heal up soon!
I own a Nicasio 1 (steel fork)( for a year) and it fits in to my collection as my weekend travel 'swiss army knife' coastal island touring bike, that quite frankly pretty care-free leaving it unattended, loading it up with gear, or riding it off a 4 foot drop on a trail. It handles it. My camp gear and BIG 32 bottle adds 65lbs to my existing 220. None of my carbon bikes give me the sense that they're bomb proof like the Nicasio. If I destroy this one, I'll buy another if they make them.
By the way, weighed the wheels only w/o cassette, 1646 g. With cassette, 1930. I found the weight culprit is frame, fork and crank bb combo makes total 13 lbs.
Kudos again to CT for reviewing value bikes like this.
Thanks! They're fun for us to review, too :)
It's 1800 dollar bike it's what you expect ... Need to dial back some criticism it's a basic bike not a 5000 dollar bike😁
Basic bike 1800? for less than that you have lot of options (orbea terra, megamo yakar) and I would not define them as basic bikes.
@@DMartina76yeah I have to agree. This bike obviously stands out because it's a steel frame but other than that there are plenty of options out there.
I do like the ride quality of steel frame bikes having a Marin Pine Mountain with Columbus Nemo steel tubing convertible to monstercross. The only thing I don't like is the under the bottom bracket cable routing that debris can corrupt the shifting. Columbus Nemo steel of my Marin Pine mountain is a higher end steel that rides nicely.
I see James Huang.. I hit the "like"
Awesome review! As always 👍💯
Has the "travel" of a steel bike ever been tested? How do fork and seatpost factor versus steel quality in frame? And outside of racing, is there a need for anything better than Tiagra?
Even for most people, 2x9 sora are good enough to cruising. It is little rough when shifting, but lower end groupset are built to last long.
For this bike tiagra is fine but I would want a groupset with a clutch derailleur. Even long flat farm roads will rattle the chain off if the wash board is bad enough. Esp if you're in an area with a lot of trucks hauling natural gas or heavy farm equipment is frequent.
I just wondering. Why cycling tips crew doesn't test the size 52 .
I have the size 52 nicasio 2. The geometry was slap bang on for endurance long ride. Plus u got nice seat post exposed not much but still.
Now i am planning to get the nicasio 1 for my retro build project.
We chose all of the bike sizes primarily based on frame reach. We could have gone with either the 52 or 54 in this case, but opted for the latter.
@@angryasian74i see, it's all depends on rider body geometry as well. I opted for 52 with regard of adjusting the reach by longer stem or longer reach dropbar.
I think my height is around cycling tips crew at 172 cm. I agree with your point the bike is pretty vanilla, nothing wrong with that taste of bike feel .
You're right on the spot for criticize marin for their bad external cable routing and compact 50/34 chainring.I swap mine with 48/32 . Strangely enough Marin Lombard 2 has 48/32 chainset.
Typically the stock wheels are the big letdown because they tend to be quite heavy. Any thoughts on the wheels and other parts that could be upgraded?
Aside from the chainrings on this particular bike, the first priority for upgrades is always wheels and tires. The rest of the stuff on here is perfectly passable, and any money spent on upgrades wouldn't have nearly as much of an impact.
As a bike enthusiast with very little knowledge regarding the technicality of it all, I didn‘t quite understand why a compact road crankset (50-34) is considered „overgeared“ for 32+ mm wide tires? I‘m running 38mm gravel tires on my Trek Domane AL endurance road bike and never felt the chain rings causing any problems with the tire width or vice versa. So I’m genuinely interested how I would profit from a different crank set.
What kind of gearing‘s considered optimal for wider tires and why?
The ratio between the number of teeth up front on the chainring and the number of teeth on the sprocket out back -- combined with the outer circumference of the tire -- determines the mechanical advantage of your drivetrain. What we're saying here is that because the tires are relatively big on the Nicasio, that essentially makes every gear feel "bigger" than they would if you were to have the same chainrings and cassette on a road bike with smaller tires. Given the target audience and usage of this bike, we feel this bike would be better served with smaller chainrings to provide more climbing-friendly gears.
As the tyre gets wider it also gets taller, increasing the diameter, so a 35 or 40mm tyre increases the gearing compared to 25 or 28mm.
50/34 is a very common fitment on bikes used for recreational road riding. A commuting / touring / backpacking / all-road / gravel bike may also have extra weight with bags or panniers and more likely be used on steeper climbs and unsealed surfaces. These will require lower gears, which is why many all-road or gravel type bikes with 2 chainrings will have 46/30 or similar.
This bike should have been built with 46/30 chainrings or similar. That's what I would prefer if I was buying it (and it ticks quite a lot of boxes for me).
I think because they were expecting it to be more gravel oriented, they expect it to have a lower gear especially if the tyres are wider (wider tyres = heavier pedalling). The 50/34-11/34 is a more road oriented combo for faster riding, than the gravel oriented ride that prioritise more on the luggage carrying or climbing/hard terrain. Well i agree to their conclussion that this bike is designed for people wants a "budget" jack of all trade.
Could you just replace the 50/32 chainrings with 46/30?
The fork is the culprit for it feeling like a "girder"...carbon disc forks across the board are overbuilt to withstand torque stress, hence the Industry pushed forward with wider tyres. I feel this bike should be shod with 650b x 47 tyres at 30psi but not sure if the 2x crankset chain line would allow it.
Is the freehub compatible with 11/12 speed road cassettes?
Might have good cable housing but the rest of the bike is one big cost cutting exercise. The terrible (trust me, I had them on a bike myself) FSA cranks are the best example. The only reason they're on there is because they're cheaper than Tiagra. The only reason it's 50/34 is because it's cheaper than more suitable chainrings...
Not all cost cutting - they could have easily gone for mechanical brakes, like a lot of bigger brands would have.
@@lesthedog mechanical brakes for 1800 USD? I think that would be over the top....
The Lombard 2 from Marin has 48/32 chainset.
Is there any plan to review the headlands or the gestalt x range in the future?
I feel like Betsy goes missing a bit in these discussions (very general comments, little experience with mid range groupos like Tiagra, doesn't know about geometry for framebags/fundamentals of standover for leaning etc) standing next to James and Dave who generally provide a lot of insightful/nuanced comments (e.g. Dave more or less emphasized, without saying for fear of annoying Shimano or Marin or both, that this bike would be good for bike tourers if you at minimum put a roadlink and as big of a cassette on it as possible, because out of the box it's just grossly inadequate for that use case despite it's geo).
I feel Gestalt 2 is better deal now, with GRX 400
What would you say is a better bike than this? I’m having buyers remorse with my nicasio 1. :(
I think Marin wanted to make a road bike but soonly realizes that their heavy stock rims won't make it.
I didn't find many road bike at this price giving you solid hydraulic DB though.
Polygon (a brand that own and manufacturing Marin) :
Strattos s5 disc, alloy road bike. Bend r5, alloy touring gravel bike. Path x5, all road/gravel alloy.
All of them has same or even less price tag than Nicasio 2. And better groupset, 105 disc or grx800-ish series
Very refreshing to hear you all state the ride difference between high end steel and roll-cage 4130 pipe. Thank you for finally clarifying for everyone that not all steel is real !
From the point of view of mechanical properties, all these steels are quite the same. Rigidity is barely varying in any steel. For elastic limits and breaking limits (not sure of the English term) it's not varying that much also. And they are the more varying properties of steels. Which don't vary too much. So, for normal temperature which is the case of bikes, using any steel is quite the same.
So, I'm quite sure that design and design process are much more determinant in frame quality than material.
Nevertheless, they can't sell to most people that a good frame can be achieved with any steel. So they have to use "high end" steels.
I don't get why it has a tiagra groupset. It's 2022. Should have a grx groupset at this price point or something from Apex. Was searching for a steel bike under 2k but this is a deal breaker for me.
GRX is literally impossible to buy
Please review the aluminium one. The Tiagra equpped marin Lombard 2.
Sooo where can we get that snack sponsor tshirt? :D
Sorry, that particular print is now a collector's item! You can find other ones here, though: cyclingtips-store.com/collections/tees
Marin Nicasio 700c review
plenty of bikes are way over geared. good it was mentioned.
Don't they have the Four Corners as their mile-munching steel tourer?
4C don’t think have a carbon fork so it’s heavier at over 13kg
IDK if steel is real or not anymore - or carbon fiber - I'll just stick to my titanium bike.
Buy second hand
can't believe I made it to 3:06 Jee almighty.
Good
Marin lied. The cable routing on my 2024 model is awful.
These dudes are trying really hard not to come as bike snobs, they kind fail thou 😂 Nice review otherwise
Thank god it's a very budget friendly JUST 1800 $'s bike that ''regular pleebs" should consider rather than a "'sensibly priced" 5000 $ bike made for bike snobs.
Most of these youtubers and their bike brand paymasters are trying to convince people that 2000$ is "normal" price to pay for a freaking entry level cycle.